[12:16] <joelbryan> Is the parental control bounty still open?
[12:35] <ogra_> mkde ?
[12:36] <ogra_> you are mixed up :P
[12:36] <mkde> heh
[12:36] <mkde> I can't access my home server so need to use this nick
[12:36] <ogra_> or are you writing docs for kubuntu ? 
[12:36] <ogra_> ah
[12:37] <mkde> no, I haven't gone to the extreme of using kde yet
[12:37] <ogra_> heh
[12:38] <ogra_> i wonder how the ubuntu themed gnome apps look in the blue kubuntu now ...
[12:38] <mkde> on drugs
[12:38] <ogra_> i imagine it will bite mixing that bright orange with a bright blue 
[12:38] <ogra_> heh, yes
[12:45] <Mez> ogra_, they look really really weird
[12:45] <ogra_> yes, thats what i'd expect
[12:46] <Mez> ogra_, hehe :D
[12:46] <Mez> though mine doesnt hae any orange
[12:46] <Mez> hae *
[12:46] <Mez> have *
[12:46] <Mez> godamn v key
[12:46] <Mez> though i'm just about to update ubuntulooks ;)
[12:47] <Mez> so I'll tell you in a mo
[12:47] <Mez> however - before I used to get blue stuff in kubuntu with brown stuff in gnome
[12:47] <tsdgeos> hi, does ispellcat have a mantainer?
[12:48] <tsdgeos> if not who do i have to bribe to /me beign the mantainer so i can fix the bugs there ?
[12:48] <Mez> W: Unable to locate package ispellcat
[12:48] <tsdgeos> aspell-ca
[12:48] <ogra_> ogra@edubuntu:/mnt/devel/packages/edubuntu-artwork-0.1.0$ apt-cache madison ispellcat
[12:48] <ogra_>  ispellcat |      0.4-6 | http://archive.ubuntu.com dapper/main Sources
[12:48] <ogra_> its in main ...
[12:49] <tsdgeos> yeah, but it is uber outdated
[12:49] <Mez> ah - source package
[12:49] <ogra_> were past all freezes .... will need an exception ...
[12:49] <Mez> tsdgeos, it's synced from debian I believe
[12:49] <tsdgeos> Mez: so i must bribe someone on debian?
[12:49] <ogra_> tsdgeos, nope
[12:50] <mkde> tsdgeos: new versions are unlikely. you can fix bugs though: file bugs and post patches
[12:50] <Mez> tsdgeos, nope - if there are bugs-  then bribe the MOTU
[12:50] <Mez> well
[12:50] <ogra_> new versions will work as well if the changes are small
[12:50] <Mez> an ubuntu de
[12:50] <tsdgeos> MOTU ?
[12:50] <Mez> but - new versions arent likely to hit till after dapper
[12:51] <tsdgeos> well, the thing is that 0.4 is very old, there is 0.5 and 20040130 (that you can see is old)
[12:51] <ogra_> tsdgeos, MOTU = masters of the universe, but that package is in main ... you need a main developer 
[12:51] <tsdgeos> but that 20040130 fixes the problems i'm facing
[12:51] <tsdgeos> i already filed a bug
[12:51] <mkde> tsdgeos: Ubuntu is frozen for new versions, but if you have easy patches to fix bugs, you can attach them to bug reports
[12:51] <Mez> tsdgeos, if the diff is small - it can be fixed
[12:51] <tsdgeos> but of course i never expected noone to care for catalan
[12:51] <Mez> if not - then well - it'll have to wai
[12:52] <tsdgeos> ok
[12:52] <Mez> tsdgeos, link to bug?
[12:52] <tsdgeos> then i'll have to ditch ubuntu
[12:52] <tsdgeos> bah
[12:52] <tsdgeos> no distro fits me
[12:52] <tsdgeos> :-(
[12:52] <ogra_> tsdgeos, hey jordi works in the translation team of ubuntu :)
[12:52] <tsdgeos> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/ispellcat/+bug/32984
[12:52] <Ubugtu> malone bug 32984 in ispellcat aspell-ca "Package is outdated" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  
[12:52] <ogra_> indeed we care about catalan :)
[12:52] <Mez> tsdgeos, we care about everyone
[12:53] <tsdgeos> well, then why do you have a 2 versions old packge of the spellchecker? when newest version is already 2 years old?
[12:53] <mkde> tsdgeos: you may also be able to install the new version manually
[12:53] <tsdgeos> mkde: of course, i may intall everything from source, but then i'd not be running any distro but TSDgeos Linux
[12:53] <mkde> tsdgeos: how about just installing this one thing
[12:53] <mkde> but the reason it is old is likely because the debian package is out of date
[12:54] <tsdgeos> mkde: how about fixing it so every catalan user out there (there are 6 millions of us) gets this fixed and not only me?
[12:54] <tsdgeos> and well
[12:54] <mkde> tsdgeos: it may be possible to get an exception for the freeze, but in general, freezes are there to protect you
[12:54] <mkde> you just don't realise it
[12:54] <tsdgeos> yeah of course
[12:54] <jordi> tsdgeos: hey man, cam down a bit
[12:55] <tsdgeos> he he
[12:55] <tsdgeos> fucking me
[12:55] <jordi> what do you mean "uberoutdated"?
[12:55] <tsdgeos> i only entered here to tell i wanted to fix it
[12:55] <jordi> sure, it's not the very last version from joan's site, but what are you missing specifically?
[12:55] <tsdgeos> and here i am flaming everyong
[12:55] <tsdgeos> sorry dudes
[12:55] <tsdgeos> jordi: it does not gets apostrophed words right
[12:56] <tsdgeos> l'home <- error
[12:56] <jordi> tsdgeos: I am the maintainer of aspell-ca
[12:56] <tsdgeos> l'estiu <- error
[12:56] <jordi> and that's fixedf  in the newer version?
[12:56] <tsdgeos> when using mandriva files all works perfect
[12:56] <jordi> I'll have a look this week.
[12:56] <tsdgeos> i guess because i would not hope mandriva specially patched their files to fix that
[12:57] <tsdgeos> jordi: uber is german for very or so
[12:57] <tsdgeos> KDE deformation of my wording
[12:57] <jordi> t might well be that the Debian mods breaki that somehow.
[12:57] <jordi> I know what uber is :)
[12:57] <jordi> damn I hate this keyboard
[12:57] <tsdgeos> well, then uberuoutdated means that, the package is 0.4 when there are 2 newer versions ;-)
[12:58] <tsdgeos> jordi: that two squares i see are typos? 
[12:58] <tsdgeos> or are sucky fonts on my side?
[12:58] <jordi> it's funny thatthey hve 0.5
[12:58] <ogra_> tsdgeos, i'd rather translate ber with extreme 
[12:58] <jordi> because I invent the version numbers.
[12:58] <ogra_> (as a german)
[12:59] <tsdgeos> jordi: ????? ftp://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/aspell/dict/ca
[12:59] <tsdgeos> 0.5 here
[12:59] <tsdgeos> and 20040130 that's newer than 0.5
[12:59] <tsdgeos> or you are not using that pacakges?
[01:01] <tsdgeos> ogra_: ok, thanks for the clarification
[01:01] <jordi> tsdgeos: nope
[01:01] <jordi> tsdgeos: debian source uses softcatala's dictioanri
[01:02] <jordi> www.jmoratinos.com
[01:02] <tsdgeos> doh
[01:03] <jordi> tsdgeos: I'll have a look, don't worry
[01:03] <tsdgeos> well, why aren't you (softcatala) contributing back changes? seems your work is newer but has some problems like the l'home thing i said
[01:03] <tsdgeos> jordi: thanks dude
[01:04] <tsdgeos> the other day i was looking for you on irc but tough you used oskuro or somethign similar and failed
[01:05] <jordi> I've been jordi for a long time now
[01:05] <jordi> http://oskuro.net/blog/freesoftware/nickname-change-2004-09-15-00.58?showcomments=yes :)
[01:05] <jordi> tsdgeos: not sure, I'll have to ask jmo
[01:07] <tsdgeos> jordi: sure it was not because oskuro had a K in it ;-)
[01:08] <tsdgeos> well i think it's nice to have a nick similar to your name, i always have the same problem of people not associating tsdgeos with the aacid kde svn account :D
[01:08] <tsdgeos> anyway sleep time
[01:09] <tsdgeos> jordi: thanks a lot for having a look, hope you can find the problem
[01:09] <jordi> sure
[01:09] <tsdgeos> if you need testers or so i'm usually on freenode so just ping me
[01:09] <jordi> no, the k wasnt a problem ;)
[01:09] <jordi> (not in this case ;)
[01:09] <jordi> ok
[01:49] <jdahlin> Was CONFIG_KPROBES turned on recently in ubuntu kernels?
[01:51] <Mez> infinity, ping
[01:52] <Burgundavia> jdahlin: you need to talk to BenC about that
[01:52] <jdahlin> oh, there isa #ubuntu-kernel
[01:53] <santiagoroza> there's this spec (or spec-wannabe) i'd like ubuntu developers to take a look at, i think it could be a nice step forward in usability ...
[01:53] <santiagoroza> it's wiki.ubuntu.com/RestrictedFormatsAssistant
[01:53] <jdahlin> Burgundavia: thanks
[01:54] <Burgundavia> santiagoroza: that is at the earliest dapper+1 material
[01:54] <Burgundavia> santiagoroza: you should also look at DesktopHooks
[01:54] <santiagoroza> yeah i looked at that
[01:54] <santiagoroza> but it's a different approach
[01:54] <maxie> is it me, or is the kubuntu flight5 link broken>
[01:55] <santiagoroza> i just wanted to know who should i talk to, in order to get the spec looked at
[01:56] <santiagoroza> because it'd be nice to have easy mp3/dvd support, while staying legal of course
[01:56] <mkde> santiagoroza: it is best to leave it until after dapper is released, and raise it at or before the developer conference
[01:57] <santiagoroza> and the developer conference will be when?  i wouldn't know since i'm not a dev
[01:57] <Burgundavia> santiagoroza: I think desktop install hooks is the proper way to go
[01:57] <Burgundavia> santiagoroza: may, if dapper releases on time
[01:57] <santiagoroza> Burgundavia: it might be the proper way to go, for not-so-common things
[01:58] <santiagoroza> but it's completely wrong for common things like mp3 or dvd
[01:58] <Burgundavia> umm, why?
[01:58] <santiagoroza> because that way
[01:58] <Burgundavia> this is what winodws media player does
[01:58] <santiagoroza> no
[01:58] <santiagoroza> windows media player ships with mp3 at least
[01:58] <santiagoroza> and btw not everything they do is right  :)
[01:58] <santiagoroza> i was saying
[01:58] <santiagoroza> because that way
[01:58] <Burgundavia> no, but they do have this right
[01:59] <santiagoroza> users have to download stuff every time they open a simple movie or song
[01:59] <Burgundavia> people want mp3 playback, not restricted formats
[01:59] <santiagoroza> that's ok for uncommon codecs
[01:59] <santiagoroza> not for stuff everyone will eventually need
[01:59] <santiagoroza> people want mp3 playback... and dvds and quicktime
[01:59] <Burgundavia> I disagree with the "everyone will need it"
[02:00] <santiagoroza> well we ship a music player don't we?
[02:00] <Burgundavia> regardless, this is not the place to talk about it
[02:00] <Burgundavia> the topic is well understood
[02:00] <santiagoroza> ok, what's the place then?
[02:01] <Burgundavia> the spec and at the deveopment conference
[02:01] <santiagoroza> ok, thanks then
[02:33] <desrt> yay!  more time to convince seb about the logout dialog box
[02:53] <mkde> desrt: don't jump the gun
[02:55] <Mez> desrt always jumps the gun
[02:56] <Mez> he thoguht i wasnt gonna let him back into the room ;) so he went and ate without me
[02:57] <Mez> infinity, ping
[02:57] <ajmitch> heh
[02:58] <ajmitch> nothing like dining with the fine cuisine of mcdonalds though
[02:58] <desrt> :)
[02:58] <desrt> which one of you was it that got me lost?
[02:58] <ajmitch> mez, of course
[02:58] <desrt> "oh.. i know where the mcdonalds is..."
[02:59] <Mez> desrt, I sorta did ;)
[02:59] <Mez> I swear there was a closer one ;)
[02:59] <Mez> lol
[02:59] <Mez> me and riddell found it easily
[02:59] <desrt> by statistics alone i believe you
[02:59] <Mez> but i really cant work out how we couldnt find it again
[02:59] <desrt> since the one we ended up at was impossibly far :)
[02:59] <Mez> if only riddell was on hand... :D
[03:00] <desrt> for a brit, your english is awful
[03:00] <jdub> yeah, you speak like a canuck
[03:00] <desrt> glare.
[03:00] <mkde> is that a compliment?
[03:00] <jdub> more a glass door for desrt to walk into
[03:01] <Mez> desrt, how so?
[03:01] <desrt> Mez; "me and riddle"
[03:02] <Mez> ah - lol :D
[03:02] <Mez> that's just me being lazy
[03:02] <desrt> and also, you want "had only riddle been on hand..."
[03:02] <desrt> or "if only riddel were on hand"
[03:02] <Mez> I'm a lazy typer :D
[03:02] <Mez> and meh - 
[03:02] <Mez> *shrugs*
[03:03] <desrt> or even "if only riddle had been on hand" if you really looking for lots of typing :)
[03:03] <ajmitch> desrt: pedant
[03:03] <Mez> ajmitch, well said
[03:03] <desrt> true story
[03:04] <desrt> my friends call me grammar nazi
[03:04] <mkde> you should get together with trappist 
[03:04] <desrt> a reasonable subset of them even thank me
[03:04] <mkde> he has that nickname too
[03:04] <timetolag> must go NOW 2 alienware laptops price 550 altogether for both.  want them gone today message me on aim at ogd443 or msn at mcsltd1@hotmail.com or yahoo at thishastogotoday
[03:04] <mkde> after a week with the docteam
[03:04] <mkde> oh bog off timetolag 
[03:04] <desrt> oh man
[03:05] <desrt> lamer smalltime irc spam
[03:05] <Mez> desrt:I'm usually a grammar nazi too - but - not all the time
[03:06] <desrt> Mez; inappropriate use of what i can only assume are meant to be emdashes
[03:06] <ajmitch> grammar nazi is not a part-time job
[03:06] <Mez> /kick desert nazi
[03:06] <LaserJock> way to go jdub!
[03:06] <desrt> Mez; in appropriate use of the letter 'e'
[03:07] <ajmitch> why do I get all these bugs which I can't reproduce?
[03:07] <LaserJock> ajmitch: has sabdfl blessed your computer or something? ;-)
[03:07] <Mez> desrt: this is starting to sound like mau
[03:07] <ajmitch> LaserJock: I wish..
[03:07] <desrt> Mez; i was just thinking that :)
[03:07] <Mez> ;)
[03:08] <desrt> i play it at school
[03:08] <desrt> people love it or hate it
[03:08] <ajmitch> LaserJock: it's just f-spot where I can't reproduce bugs, but I suspect upstream has fixed them in cvs
[03:08] <ajmitch> Mez: mao, I presume?
[03:08] <Mez> ajmitch, yeah - I always forget the spelling
[03:08] <desrt> ajmitch; yes.  on his sandwiches
[03:10] <mkde> desrt: you can read the Ubuntu guides and do some grammar nazi-ing, if you like that sort of thing, then submit patches
[03:11] <desrt> mkde; where are those?
[03:11] <mkde> desrt: they're at http://doc.ubuntu.com or in Yelp on dapper. The source is at https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/trunk, all other info is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/GettingStarted or #ubuntu-doc
[03:11] <mkde> :)
[03:12] <desrt> wow.  nice sales pitch.  jdub is bound to kick you soon :)
[03:12] <mkde> heh
[03:12] <desrt> here's a neat question -- will it still be 6.04 if it is delayed?
[03:12] <mkde> depends by how long, I suppose
[03:13] <Burgundavia> 6 weeks is June 1st
[03:13] <desrt> 6.06
[03:14] <desrt> mkde; do you guys have a style guide?
[03:14] <mkde> desrt: yeah, doc.ubuntu.com for that too
[03:14] <desrt> stuff like
[03:14] <desrt> 1, 2, and 3.
[03:14] <desrt> vs
[03:14] <desrt> 1, 2 and 3.
[03:14] <desrt> have some internal inconsistency
[03:14] <mkde> yes, it's the former for the moment
[03:15] <Mez> desrt: fancy writing documents for a KDE app?
[03:15] <desrt> definitely not :)
[03:15] <Mez> desrt: it's a cool app ;)
[03:15] <mkde> desrt: http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/styleguide/en/ch04s02.html
[03:16] <jdub> mkde: hey, that page was not generated with the chunk name
[03:16] <desrt> mkde; IBMs?  what an awful example :)
[03:16] <mkde> jdub: come again?
[03:16] <mkde> desrt: we accept patches on the styleguide too :)
[03:17] <desrt> mkde; for the only case i can imagine IBM's is, indeed, correct
[03:17] <jdub> mkde: 'ch04s02.html' -> that's the autogenerated name, not the chunk name
[03:17] <mkde> jdub: right, the norm walsh stylesheets do that by default, iirc
[03:17] <jdub> you can tell them to use chunk names
[03:18] <jdub> it's just a parameter
[03:18] <mkde> sure
[03:18] <jdub> 'course, then you need chunk names
[03:18] <jdub> but those are just the ids
[03:18] <jdub> makes it neater, and more likely to keep sane urls
[03:18] <mkde> yes, that would be a good thing to get right
[03:18] <mkde> i've heard complaints on #ubuntu about that
[03:18] <mkde> alright then
[03:19] <jdub> (that's one thing i find frustrating about this kind of generation - you have to be very anal retentive about chunk name changes to make sure urls stay the same, both by name and semantics)
[03:20] <jdub> hmm, might be cool to add a test to check when chunk names are changed
[03:22] <mkde> jdub: that sounds like a lot of work. I've fixed the filename thing though
[03:24] <mkde> the id's in the styleguide are pretty dodgy though
[03:25] <desrt> mkde; ... crikey!
[03:27] <jdub> mkde: should only be a bit of xpath hackery, following the logic of the stylesheets (which is fairly simple for chunking rules, i believe)
[03:34] <wickers> I think I found a bug or two with the flight 5 liveCD
[03:35] <wickers> The desktop is not writable. 
[03:35] <Burgundavia> wickers: please file them. If you have a solution
[03:36] <Burgundavia> wickers: this is the place to discuss your solution to a bug, not the bug itself
[03:36] <wickers> Ahh.. ok.. chmod
[03:36] <wickers> ;)
[03:36] <wickers> just kiddin
[03:36] <wickers> I'll check out where to file bug reports. 
[03:39] <mkde> woof
[03:39] <mkde> sorry desrt, missed everything you said (if anything) after "crickey", I pulled my network cable out of the wall
[03:40] <desrt> mkde; a few more notes about the style guide
[03:40] <desrt> mkde; in general, your use of commas is a bit weird
[03:40] <mkde> yes, we've discussed this a bit on the ML recently
[03:40] <desrt> mkde; also, quotations aren't covered completely
[03:40] <desrt> vs
[03:41] <desrt> the 2nd seems to be more popular in our setting
[03:41] <mkde> you are just trappist in disguise, right?
[03:41] <desrt> no.
[03:41] <LaserJock> desrt: you need to read the ubuntu-doc ML. We discussed that too
[03:41] <desrt> hah
[03:42] <LaserJock> great word-nazises think alike?
[03:42] <mkde> desrt: anyway, def. be glad to have you join in the discussion on that, or do any proofreading, or even contribute the odd section before string freeze
[03:42] <desrt> mkde; i'm not really sure i can commit any real time to this, unfortunately
[03:42] <mkde> desrt: np, whatever you want
[03:43] <desrt> mkde; and it seems that my random observations are already known... so that's good :)
[03:43] <mkde> :)
[03:50] <elkbuntu> is this bad, and if so, known? http://pastebin.com/597336
[03:51] <jdub> mkde: how much of the ubuntu styleguide points to or directly uses the gnome styleguide?
[03:51] <mkde> jdub: I think the answer is "some but not all", but I am not 100% sure, if you send a mail to the list, the author will answer
[03:57] <theCore> quick question, does the 6-weeks delay will affect the Freezes?
[03:58] <minghua> elkbuntu: nothing to be worried about.  but see bug #6614 if you are interested to fix it :-)
[03:58] <Ubugtu> malone bug 6614 in gs-common "Use of uninitialized value in print at /var/lib/defoma/scripts/gs.defoma line 108" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/6614
[03:59] <elkbuntu> minghua, heh i wish i had a clue
[03:59] <theCore> nevermind
[04:32] <Lathiat> Kamion: hrm that kubutu daily doesnt seem to have gone through
[04:55] <elkbuntu> just a question before i file a bug report: what are the privs for /home/username/.xauthority supposed to be?
[04:55] <Lathiat> .Xauthority, u+rw,u-x,go-rwx
[04:56] <Lathiat> owned by $user
[04:56] <Mez> ls: /home/username/.xauthority: No such file or directory
[04:56] <Lathiat> .<x>authority shouldnt exist
[04:56] <Mez> ls: /home/mez/.xauthority: No such file or directory
[04:56] <Lathiat> but i assume thats a typo
[04:56] <Mez> -rw------- 1 mez mez 1162 2006-03-10 15:31 /home/mez/.Xauthority
[04:56] <elkbuntu> well... it exists and is stopping the gksudo
[04:58] <elkbuntu> ls -l /home/melissa/.Xauthority gives: -rw------- 1 root root 0 2006-03-02 18:32 /home/melissa/.Xauthority
[04:59] <elkbuntu> so it's the same as for Mez
[04:59] <Mez> elkbuntu, not exactly
[04:59] <Mez> elkbuntu, try this: sudo chown melissa:melissa /home/melissa/.Xauthority
[04:59] <Mez> that's your problem ;)
[04:59] <elkbuntu> ah
[05:00] <Mez> t's owned by the wrong user
[05:00] <elkbuntu> i didnt do anything to change this however
[05:00] <Mez> *shrugs*
[05:00] <Mez> you rpobably tried sudo'ing and running X as root or something to get that to happen
[05:00] <Mez> sudo chown melissa:melissa /home/melissa/.Xauthority
[05:00] <Mez> will fix it though
[05:01] <elkbuntu> aye, but so long as the updates fix it, since i'd place my life on a bet that the updates made it like that
[05:02] <Mez> elkbuntu, er ...
[05:02] <Mez> not likely
[05:02] <Mez> but that comand'll fix it
[05:02] <elkbuntu> i hadnt installed anything, just run updates this past week
[05:02] <Mez> it's probably just an accident somewhere ;)
[05:02] <elkbuntu> yep
[05:02] <Mez> the command fixes it
[05:03] <elkbuntu> but so long as it's not a permanent accident i'm happy
[05:03] <Mez> shouldn't be
[05:04] <elkbuntu> good, because i ran updates immediately before coming in here
[07:04] <desrt> oh.  i see.  orange.
[07:05] <desrt> has ubuntu gone mental?
[07:05] <desrt> erp.  wrong channel.
[07:05] <fabbione> LOL
[07:05] <fabbione> desrt: ehehe
[07:07] <elkbuntu> that's been a common reaction...
[07:18] <Aegir`> I like the orange. Better than brown.
[07:18] <Aegir`> But mind you, I also quite liked the brown.
[07:19] <Burgundavia> opinions were very mixed on that one
[07:19] <Lathiat> 1 thing with the brown
[07:19] <Lathiat> it was distinctive
[07:19] <Lathiat> you see ubuntu, you know its ubuntu :)
[07:19] <Lathiat> i havent seen the orange yet
[07:19] <Lathiat> so i'm holding back my opinions :)
[07:19] <Aegir`> I'm not sure wether theres really an issue either way. Theres always clearlooks, and whatnot, still availible.
[07:20] <jdub> Aegir`: the issue is out-of-the-box love
[07:20] <Aegir`> Well, I've got a lot of love for orange.
[07:20] <jdub> (and hate, because it's not good enough just to be boring)
[07:22] <elkbuntu> its not the colour orange i dislike, it's the intensity of it
[07:23] <elkbuntu> the desktop grid on the panel is still annoying me :P
[07:23] <fabbione> jdub: thanks for the posting on the fridge.. HeavYMetaL
[07:23] <jdub> ROAR! :-)
[07:24] <jdub> fabbione: which irc channel are you using for it? wasn't mentioned in your post
[07:24] <fabbione> #ubuntu-ports
[07:24] <minghua> elkbuntu: yeah, I agree the desktop icon sucks
[07:24] <elkbuntu> minghua, i want the little application icons back on them too :(
[07:24] <jsgotangco> roar?
[07:26] <jsgotangco> jdub: fridge sucks so much on epiphany
[07:26] <jdub> jsgotangco: ?!
[07:27] <jsgotangco> jdub: the link tabs get relocated radomly
[07:27] <jdub> jsgotangco: hrm, thought i fixed that sucker
[07:33] <minghua> jdub: I have the same problem in firefox
[07:33] <jdub> yeah, same issue everywhere
[07:33] <jdub> i thought i'd fixed it
[08:31] <desrt> if the ubuntu installer crashes inside of qemu..... whose fault is it....
[08:38] <fabbione> hey pitti
[08:38] <fabbione> desrt: it depends from the crash?
[08:38] <pitti> Hi guys
[08:38] <pitti> hey fabbione 
[08:38] <desrt> "Downloading file 655 of 838 (0s remaining)"
[08:38] <fabbione> pitti: how do I make sure a buffer is 64bit alligned?
[08:39] <desrt> this is a neat thing to see from an ubuntu install on a box that's not connected to the net
[08:39] <fabbione> desrt: network connection stalled?
[08:39] <desrt> fabbione; no.  it's going pretty fast....
[08:39] <pitti> fabbione: uh, no idea in C
[08:39] <fabbione> pitti: ok
[08:39] <desrt> fabbione; you can use the gcc allignment attribute
[08:39] <fabbione> desrt: can you elaborate please?
[08:39] <ajmitch> morning guys
[08:40] <pitti> hey ajmitch 
[08:40] <desrt> fabbione; __attribute__((aligned(8)))
[08:40] <desrt> fabbione; ie: align to the nearest 8-byte boundry
[08:40] <desrt> fabbione; gcc-only
[08:41] <desrt> fabbione; don't expect that to work with automatic variables
[08:41] <fabbione>         __attribute__((aligned(8))) unsigned char buf[BLOCK_SIZE] ;
[08:41] <fabbione> this works
[08:42] <fabbione> but i guess i need to make it conditional
[08:42] <fabbione> I think only sparc and alpha requires 64bit allignment
[08:42] <fabbione> and i can't care less about alpha
[09:01] <elkbuntu> is there a reason netstat runs as a zombie process at boot?
[09:02] <Burgundavia> jdub: you don;'t need to worry about the ubuntu-users mailing list. I can deal with it
[09:03] <Burgundavia> jdub: (i assume it is you who is clearing out the spam queue)
[09:03] <Pygi> elkbuntu: huh :-/
[09:04] <jdub> Burgundavia: it's just part of my morning listadmin run
[09:04] <Burgundavia> jdub: ok
[09:04] <elkbuntu> i've JUST booted 7 mins ago cos i noticed netstat and firefox running as zombie processes.. so right after boot, i ps -el | grep 'Z' and get: 0 Z  1000  5197  5138  0  79   0 -     0 exit   ?        00:00:00 netstat <defunct>
[09:05] <Pygi> no good :-/
[09:05] <elkbuntu> i'll pastebin the output from before boot
[09:06] <elkbuntu> with ff in there too
[09:06] <Pygi> k, thanks
[09:07] <elkbuntu> http://pastebin.com/597531
[09:07] <elkbuntu> however this time firefox isnt zombied, but it sorta tried crashing at a page i went to it might have been the cause of that, since ff is a little instable right now
[09:08] <Pygi> what ff are you running? ff 1.5.1. or nigthly build?
[09:08] <elkbuntu> whatever is in the repos
[09:08] <Pygi> huh, that one has extreme problems with javascript code :-/
[09:08] <elkbuntu> Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.8.0.1) Gecko/20060311 Ubuntu/dapper Firefox/1.5.0.1
[09:09] <elkbuntu> i'm really wondering why the heck netstat would be running zombie anyway, it's like single threaded
[09:11] <Pygi> hm...
[09:11] <elkbuntu> pygi will you be around for a few hours yet? i'll be guineapig but i need to go afk a while
[09:11] <Pygi> elkbuntu: probably...talk to you later then....
[09:11] <elkbuntu> okies, thanks :)
[09:14] <Pygi> Lathiat: ? where? In dapper?
[09:15] <robitaille> Lathiat:  I don't have any breezy in my repos
[09:15] <Lathiat> Pygi: yeh, fresh flight5 install
[09:15] <Lathiat> if i goto repoisotries
[09:15] <Lathiat> and click add
[09:15] <Lathiat> i can add breezy sources
[09:15] <robitaille> oh...yes
[09:16] <Pygi> Lathiat: yup, true...
[09:16] <Pygi> perhaps someone want to use old libs/app until new ones are stable enough
[09:16] <Lathiat> thats likely to cause total hell
[09:17] <Pygi> I bealive it will be truncated once the final release is made
[09:17] <Pygi> Lathiat: most probably, but that's why you won't use it ;)
[09:17] <Burgundavia> ugg, the add dialog sucks
[09:17] <Pygi> Lathiat: People who use it should know what can they get with that :P
[09:18] <Lathiat> Burgundavia: yeh it shouldnt be an add dialog it should be some kind of matrix
[09:18] <Pygi> Lathiat: And you would explain that how to regular user? :-/
[09:18] <Burgundavia> no, there is no use case for not adding updates and security when you add a dialog
[09:19] <Lathiat> Burgundavia: heh
[09:19] <Lathiat> right
[09:19] <Burgundavia> s/dialog/repo
[09:19] <Burgundavia> however, you have to capture that complexity
[09:19] <Burgundavia> maybe a |> expander?
[09:19] <Lathiat> also, i hope theres an option to turn these low disk notifications off
[09:19] <Lathiat> like a UI accessible option
[09:20] <Lathiat> i know many people that fill disks up on purpose
[09:20] <Pygi> Burgundavia: well, if you really wanted, you could always edit sources.list manually
[09:20] <Lathiat> anyoen got an idea?
[09:20] <Burgundavia> Pygi: indeed
[09:20] <Pygi> Lathiat: yup, an option to turn it off might be a good idea, but filling disk up to the top is not a good idea at all
[09:20] <Lathiat> Pygi: sure it is
[09:21] <Lathiat> Pygi: i have a 200G drive full of .. files
[09:21] <Lathiat> i dont care that its full
[09:21] <Lathiat> its there to be used
[09:21] <Lathiat> i mean having / not full is fine
[09:21] <Lathiat> and i agree
[09:21] <Lathiat> but other drives can be filled intentionally
[09:21] <Lathiat> windows used to drive me nuts with that
[09:22] <Pygi> hm, imagine a situation where you have /home1 with 1000 users on LDAP on a server
[09:22] <Burgundavia> it needs two things: 1) smarter default as to what mount points to care about
[09:22] <Lathiat> also, anyone knwo how i can make mounted drives show up in the places menu
[09:22] <Burgundavia> 2) gui options to chat it
[09:22] <Lathiat> 'user' used to do it
[09:22] <Burgundavia> change it
[09:22] <Pygi> and each user has a quote....we really do need that reminder in that case
[09:22] <Lathiat> Pygi: sure
[09:22] <Lathiat> Pygi: theres both uses cases
[09:22] <Lathiat>  / or /home shoudl most certainly not be full
[09:22] <Lathiat> but other drives can be
[09:22] <Lathiat> so
[09:22] <ajmitch> Pygi: sure, a reminder is useful, but having no options to change it is less than optimal
[09:23] <Pygi> ajmitch: yup, scrool up...being able to turn it off is great
[09:23] <Lathiat> any ide aon the disk thing?
[09:23] <Pygi> I don't even know if that reminder would work with a quote on LDAP server /home dirs
[09:23] <Lathiat> thats annoying a mate of mine as well, if the drives arent on his desktop he goes nuts :)
[09:23] <Lathiat> Pygi: probably doesnt take quotas in to count
[09:24] <Pygi> Lathiat: O, joy...
[09:24] <Lathiat> Pygi: can fix that ;p
[09:24] <Pygi> That's a issue for users then
[09:24] <Pygi> Lathiat: if you can...fix it ;) it would be great ;)
[09:25] <Lathiat> i'll pass? ;p
[09:25] <Pygi> ok ;)
[09:25] <Lathiat> i dont need it ;p
[09:26] <Pygi> Latguat; bah, that's not a good opinion ;) If you don't need a C compiler, then we shouldn't fix C compiler? ;) (joke)
[09:30] <Pygi> Lathiat: hehe ;)
[10:14] <glatzor> hi jsgotangco. good to see you! as suggested by mark there will be some interface changes in g-a-i.
[10:15] <jsgotangco> gahhh
[10:15] <jsgotangco> glatzor, do you have a list?
[10:15] <glatzor> jsgotangco: the "add channel/section" button will be removed. mainly we restored the old behavior.
[10:16] <glatzor> so if you click on install and the section/channel is not in your sources.list a dialog pops up.
[10:18] <glatzor> furthermore I would like to change the term "component" to "section". this is the one used by debian.
[10:19] <glatzor> jsgotangco: I changed the wording of some dialogs a little bit to reflect the new workflow.
[10:19] <Burgundavia> glatzor: component and section are differnt in debian
[10:19] <glatzor> the channels get "enabled" and not "added"
[10:19] <Burgundavia> glatzor: sections is what type of program, component is what license it has
[10:19] <glatzor> Burgundavia: http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/apt-howto/ch-basico.en.html
[10:21] <Burgundavia> glatzor: you also the issue of this: http://www.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/components
[10:21] <glatzor> Burgundavia: Ok. I will revert the change
[10:22] <jsgotangco> ok i will check changes and amend as needed
[10:22] <Burgundavia> glatzor: the more common usage of section in debian is the type of package
[10:22] <glatzor> Burgundavia: the man page of sources.list also speaks of components. 
[10:24] <Burgundavia> hmm
[10:25] <glatzor> glatzor: it seems to be a bug in APT HOWTO.
[10:26] <glatzor> Burgundavia: thanks that you were here and stopped me :)
[10:26] <Burgundavia> glatzor: yes. In a package, section clearly is about what the package is, not where it is
[10:39] <glatzor> jsgotangco: do know when the new theme will be stable to take the screenshots?
[10:39] <jsgotangco> i will make new shots later
[10:40] <jsgotangco> the theme is pretty stable already
[10:40] <jsgotangco> i dunno about the icons
[10:41] <Pygi> oh, new "rainbow" theme ... joy ;)
[10:41] <Lathiat> i hope th etheme isnt stable
[10:42] <Burgundavia> glatzor: I don't we have ever met before
[10:42] <jsgotangco> Burgundavia, that's sebastien heinlen
[10:42] <Pygi> Lathiat: lol ;)
[10:43] <glatzor> jsgotangco: I don't know if mvo includes my polishing for the software-properties dialogs. if yes these dialogs need new screenshots. too. but I could take them myself.
[10:43] <glatzor> jsgotangco: Burgundavia: yes the famouse one :)
[10:43] <jsgotangco> lol
[10:43] <jsgotangco> glatzor, i'm currently updating another box, i'll see more changes i guess
[10:44] <joelbryan> why does the current gnome-vfs is striipped down? start-here:, all-applications: doesn't work anymore.
[10:46] <Burgundavia> glatzor: where you at UBZ?
[10:46] <glatzor> Burgundavia: I helped mvo on synaptic some years ago - mainly doing documentation, translations and UI stuff.
[10:46] <Burgundavia> ah
[10:47] <glatzor> Burgundavia: I stopped my open source engagement because of time reasons. This January I filled a bug against gnome-app-install not following the GNOME HIG.
[10:48] <Burgundavia> ah
[10:48] <Burgundavia> I quit a job because it contrained by OSS stuff too much
[10:48] <glatzor> Since mvo was low on time, so I did a patch. :)
[10:48] <glatzor> Burgundavia: this is my way to Ubuntu. :)
[10:48] <jsgotangco> you quit userful?
[10:49] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco: no, microserve
[10:49] <jsgotangco> ahhh
[10:49] <Burgundavia> back in Feb 2005
[10:49] <_lemsx1_> anybody around?
[10:50] <_lemsx1_> Bug #34570
[10:50] <Ubugtu> malone bug 34570 in gksu "gksu -u root segfault (dapper)" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/34570
[10:50] <_lemsx1_> $> gksu echo foo
[10:50] <_lemsx1_> foo
[10:50] <_lemsx1_> $> gksu -u root echo foo
[10:50] <_lemsx1_> Segmentation fault
[10:53] <Burgundavia> _lemsx1_: if you filed a bug, that is all that is needed
[10:53] <Burgundavia> developers will respond on the bug
[10:53] <Burgundavia> if you have a fix, please respond there too
[10:54] <_lemsx1_> Burgundavia: ok. let me see what causes this... thanks
[10:56] <Burgundavia> glatzor: have you worked on smart?
[10:56] <glatzor> Burgundavia: h. no. I've even learned python last month. :)
[10:57] <Burgundavia> hmm
[10:57] <glatzor> Burgundavia: you know the 'fantastic' webboard? :) it is my first app.
[10:58] <Burgundavia> glatzor: no, never heard of it. Is that a good thing or a bad thing?
[11:00] <glatzor> Burgundavia: I think that I am not the right one to answer this question. But it could be of use if you use GNOME and a pastebin server.
[11:00] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco: can you search on the url bar in epiphany?
[11:00] <glatzor> Burgundavia: http://gnomefiles.org/app.php?soft_id=1269 <-- even features a screencast
[11:02] <Burgundavia> hmm, seems cool
[11:02] <Burgundavia> and I award you bonus points for not using flash
[11:02] <Burgundavia> futher points for using epiphany
[11:07] <Seveas> webboard is nice
[11:07] <Seveas> glatzor, you should fix /usr/bin/webboard though ;)
[11:08] <glatzor> Burgundavia: jsgotangco: the term "channel", "source" and "repository" are used in different ways in g-a-i/software-properties and documentation
[11:08] <Burgundavia> glatzor: oh joy
[11:09] <glatzor> Burgundavia: Canonical wants to use "channel"?
[11:09] <Burgundavia> I disagree complete with the word channel
[11:09] <jsgotangco> im currently in breezy
[11:09] <Burgundavia> that is word they were throwing around at UBZ
[11:10] <glatzor> Burgundavia: there should be a consence on this pretty soon.
[11:10] <Burgundavia> a channel would be a component
[11:10] <Burgundavia> that is what I think they meant
[11:10] <Burgundavia> so you would add a channel for universe or for skype
[11:11] <glatzor> but this doesn't follow the desgin of apt
[11:11] <Burgundavia> I think we are switching to smart for dapper+!
[11:12] <glatzor> but the next release is dapper+0. :)
[11:12] <Seveas> Burgundavia, you almost gave me a heart attack
[11:12] <Burgundavia> Seveas: why?
[11:12] <Seveas> I don't like smart too much
[11:13] <jdub> smart is sweet
[11:13] <Burgundavia> canonical did hire the lead developer of smart in 2005
[11:13] <jdub> the ui is bong
[11:13] <jdub> but that's no problem
[11:13] <Burgundavia> presumably for more than just baking cookies
[11:14] <Burgundavia> glatzor: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RepositoryDialogRedesign
[11:16] <glatzor> Burgundavia: Because of this spec I renamed all "repositories" to "channels"
[11:17] <glatzor> Burgundavia: hm. the screencast seems a little bit "direct in your face". perhaps I should move it to its own wiki site
[11:17] <Burgundavia> just move it down
[11:17] <Burgundavia> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/third-party-packages
[11:18] <Seveas> heh
[11:18] <Seveas> nice quit msg
[11:18] <glatzor> Burgundavia: should I add a topic "braindump" to the spec?
[11:19] <Burgundavia> glatzor: which spec?
[11:20] <glatzor> the redesign one
[11:20] <Burgundavia> https://launchpad.net/products/gnome-app-install/+spec/ui <-- this one?
[11:20] <glatzor> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RepositoryDialogRedesign
[11:21] <Burgundavia> it is already at braindump
[11:21] <jsgotangco> brb
[11:28] <glatzor> Burgundavia: should i bring the "channel/source/repository" issue to the ubuntu-devel and ubuntu-doc list?
[11:30] <Burgundavia> glatzor: ubuntu-devel for now
[11:33] <glatzor> Seveas: does the drag and drop of files to the webboard applet work for you?
[11:33] <Burgundavia> jdub: why is fileroller creating blah.zip_FILES directories again. I thought that was a bug that had been fixed?
[11:33] <glatzor> it seems that it stopped working here without any known changes
[11:33] <Lathiat> Burgundavia: how is that a bug?
[11:34] <Lathiat> 99% of  .zips dont have a subdirectory, it makes sense to make one ?
[11:34] <Seveas> glatzor, yes - didn't know that feature yet 
[11:34] <Burgundavia> Lathiat: localization bug
[11:34] <Burgundavia> Lathiat: it should just create a folder with the name of the zip/tar.gz/etc. file
[11:35] <Lathiat> Burgundavia: it cant have the same name
[11:35] <Lathiat> Burgundavia: you cant have a file and directory witht he same name?
[11:35] <Burgundavia> why not?
[11:35] <Lathiat> or you mean to take the .tar.gz off it?
[11:35] <Lathiat> (or .zip, or whatever)
[11:35] <Burgundavia> that works too
[11:36] <Burgundavia> _FILES looks hideous, aside from the obvious issues with i10n
[11:37] <Burgundavia> ok, why is python barfing "import: command not found" for all python programs?
[11:38] <glatzor> Seveas: It is fixed in my local bzr repository
[11:38] <Seveas> Burgundavia, bad #! interpreter?
[11:38] <Seveas> sounds like the shell is interpreting your pythin files
[11:38] <Burgundavia> ya, that is it
[11:45] <glatzor> jsgotangco: do know how to open scrollkeeper docs in khelp?
[12:17] <klepas> curious, will breezy users be able to update to GNOME 2.14 when it comes out?
[12:19] <klepas> without updating to dapper i mean
[12:19] <klepas> so no i guess
[12:19] <_lemsx1_> dunno. i'm not a dev
[12:19] <klepas> that's it, i'm updating to dapper on the 14th :)
[12:20] <_lemsx1_> that's perhaps the wisest thing to do... testing gnome2.14 was done on dapper after all...
[12:20] <klepas> yea
[12:20] <klepas> you're using dapper already?
[12:24] <_lemsx1_> klepas: isn't everybody?
[12:24] <_lemsx1_> ;-)
[12:26] <klepas> ^^
[12:41] <jsgotangco> lol
[12:49] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: so, I have a patch to NM to fix https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/network-manager/+bug/33322 ; it doesn't allow you to join non-utf8 essids but at least stops NM from going "aieee".  Do you want the patch or should I just upload?
[12:49] <Ubugtu> malone bug 33322 in network-manager "segfaults on invalid UTF-8 ESSIDs" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  
[12:50] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: also, debuild ; debuild in NM seems to fail.
[12:51] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: ask me tomorrow
[12:52] <Mithrandir> k
[01:00] <sivang> hi all!
[01:00] <nictuku> hi
[01:03] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: (watching F1, just online for live-f1 support :p ... and then will be off for the afternoon)
[01:06] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: yeah, I noticed the live-f1 stuff. :-P
[01:07] <Mithrandir> myself, I'm busy putting together a jigsaw
[01:37] <jeroenvrp> hi folks
[01:38] <jeroenvrp> I have a problem with apt-get (dapper) the last days
[01:38] <jeroenvrp> not with apt-get actually, but with openoffice 2.0.2 being not complete
[01:39] <jeroenvrp> I only have the dutch language component of 2.0.2 lin my list
[01:39] <jeroenvrp> and when I want to upgrade this, it wants to remove OOo completely, because the rest is still 2.0.1
[01:40] <jeroenvrp> I hoped the rest of OOo would be in the repos, but no luck for allready 2 days
[01:41] <jeroenvrp> hopefully you read this
[01:50] <Seveas> jeroenvrp, known problem
[01:50] <Seveas> just wait
[01:50] <jeroenvrp> Seveas: ok, thanks - so its not me
[02:30] <cassidy> elmo: ping
[02:38] <Riddell> Mez: on hand?
[03:39] <ogra_> Kamion, disabling the screensaver on start of your is the second method, but if your app crashes it stays disabled, thats why i prefer the timeout pinger ...
[03:39] <ogra_> s/your/your app/
[04:47] <elkbuntu> if Pygi comes back looking for me, tell him i left him a memo with memoserv
[05:01] <jeroenvrp> Seveas: they are now in the repos
[05:02] <jeroenvrp> thanks
[05:09] <Riddell> what's the program that I can change my laptop brightness with in gnome?
[05:09] <Mithrandir> Riddell: gnome-power-manager?
[05:10] <Riddell> Mithrandir: that's just a daemon, I'm looking for the front end
[05:10] <Mithrandir> the applet is /usr/bin/gnome-power-manager
[06:15] <dradul> {j #ubuntu
[06:28] <mako> ompaul: yah
[06:30] <ompaul> mako, you said we should have a chat about gnubuntu is your mobile on?
[06:30] <mako> hmm.. 
[06:30] <mako> yes we should
[06:30] <mako> nows not the best time
[06:31] <ompaul> okay, no worries 
[06:32] <ompaul> my afternoon is fun anyway writing up a presentation for teachers about the joys of free software and the like 
[07:10] <Seveas> Kamion, ping
[07:15] <desrt> mvo; 'sup.
[07:38] <ssam> sorry to disturb people but this looks like rather a serious security bug https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+bug/34606/
[07:38] <Ubugtu> malone bug 34606 in Nexenta OS "Administrator root password readable in cleartext on Breezy" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  
[07:38] <fabbione> ssam: wrong channel. that's Nexenta
[07:38] <ssam> apparently it effects ubuntu too
[07:38] <fabbione> impossible
[07:39] <ssam> i'd hope so, but people are confirming it in the forums
[07:39] <fabbione> oh halt
[07:39] <fabbione> that's from the installer
[07:40] <mjg59> Interesting. Certainly wasn't the case in Hoary.
[07:40] <ssam> i dont see it on my machine though, powerpc default install
[07:40] <mjg59> ssam: A stock install of breezy?
[07:40] <ssam> yes
[07:41] <mjg59> Ok
[07:41] <mjg59> How odd, then
[07:41] <mjg59> I don't think I have any machines that were installed as Breezy
[07:41] <fabbione> it's not in dapper
[07:42] <fabbione> and i don't have breezy
[07:43] <fabbione> no i have no such machine
[07:43] <tseng> doesnt seem to be the case here
[07:43] <tseng> dapper box installed with breezy
[08:16] <sladen> wow.  I processed *3* PGP slips.  r.
[08:23] <siretart> sladen: thanks for the sigs :)
[08:25] <bddebian> Hi folks
[08:25] <bddebian> Do we have any documentation on how MoM works?
[08:31] <bddebian> Where the heck is everyone? :-(
[08:32] <ajmitch> asleep or drinking
[08:34] <bddebian> ajmitch!
[08:34] <bddebian> ajmitch: What is Scott's nick?
[08:34] <ajmitch> keybuk?
[08:34] <bddebian> Oh yeah.. Man I'm dense
[08:35] <jono> hi all
[08:35] <bddebian> ajmitch: Do you know if we have any wiki pages on setting up a buildd?
[08:35] <jono> anyone know where the gstreamer 0.10 equivilent of gstreamer0.8-lame is ?
[08:36] <ajmitch> bddebian: nope
[08:36] <sivang> hye jono , 'sup?
[08:36] <sivang> hey bddebian 
[08:36] <ajmitch> jono: gstreamer0.10-plugins-ugly-multiverse
[08:36] <jono> hey sivang 
[08:36] <bddebian> Hi sivang
[08:36] <jono> ajmitch, thanks
[08:36] <ajmitch> I think 
[08:38] <jono> sivang, hows it going?
[08:40] <jono> ajmitch, any idea which package 'mad' is in?
[08:41] <ajmitch> similar, gstreamer0.10-plugins-ugly
[08:41] <jono> ok thanks
[08:42] <ajmitch> how goes the book writing?
[08:47] <jono> when unmounting usb devices in dapper, do we still need to leave a minute or so after icon disappears to ensure it was cleanly unmounted?
[08:48] <mvo> jono: the last version of dapper should have a notification when it can be plugged out
[08:48] <jono> mvo, ok, does it throw up a dialog box when it does this?
[08:49] <mvo> jono: it should come up with a dialog when you click unmount, but I'm not 100% up-to-date on this (seb128 or pitti are) 
[08:50] <jono> ok thanks
[08:50] <jono> thanks mvo
[09:02] <Kamion> ssam: noted, thanks, I'll check it out at the earliest possible opportunity
[09:04] <ssam> Kamion, thanks, lets hope this does not get overexcitedly posted on all the news site
[09:04] <Kamion> I can reproduce it in the vmware install of breezy I did ages ago
[09:05] <Kamion> but I want to dig through the installer to work out *why* it's happening, since there's explicit code in there to prevent it
[09:05] <Seveas> Kamion, fwiw I have a hoary, breezy and dapper install here - none of them exhibit this bug
[09:07] <ogra> my edubuntu breezy does ... :/
[09:07] <Kamion> I'll fix it for existing installs with a base-config update
[09:07] <Kamion> but as I say, I want to figure out why on earth it's happening first
[09:08] <ogra> seems not to happen genrally ...
[09:08] <ogra> *generally
[09:10] <soumyadip> can anyone tell me how to select locales other than english, like maybe hi_IN and bn_IN in Dapper ?
[09:11] <soumyadip> dpkg-reconfigure locales no longer works
[09:11] <Kamion> locale-gen
[09:11] <soumyadip> hand calling it ?
[09:11] <Kamion> or install language-pack-$LL for whatever $LL you want
[09:11] <sivang> jono: good , good, you?
[09:11] <jono> sivang, not bad, busy as usual :)
[09:12] <soumyadip> Kamion, well I'll try the langpack route
[09:12] <jono> any ideas if Dapper is going to be delayed yet?
[09:12] <Kamion> calling it by hand is perfectly acceptable, although you probably want to install the language pack anyway
[09:12] <Kamion> jono: no, that's what the meetings on Tuesday will be about
[09:12] <ogra> jono, we'll know after next TB meeting i guess
[09:12] <Kamion> it's only a proposal at present
[09:12] <jono> Kamion, ahhh cool
[09:13] <jono> personally I think it makes sense
[09:13] <Kamion> what would it mean for your book deadline?
[09:13] <soumyadip> Kamion, well won't n00bs be afraid, I mean it is one thing to select hi_IN from a list and another thing to type locale-gen hi_IN at a console
[09:13] <jono> Kamion, Mark asked me about this - it should be fine, the book deadline pretty much moves alongside the dapper deadline
[09:13] <Kamion> soumyadip: dpkg-reconfigure was never particularly newbie-accessible anyway
[09:13] <Kamion> soumyadip: newbies can use the language selector which lets them select their language from a graphical list
[09:14] <jono> if it gets delayed, I suspect it will make dapper better and will also make the book better :)
[09:14] <Kamion> soumyadip: that will install the language pack and thereby create the locale
[09:14] <jono> more time to polish :)
[09:14] <soumyadip> Kamion, there is a language selector ? damn it I must've missed it
[09:14] <Kamion> soumyadip: yeah, should be in your menus
[09:15] <soumyadip> Kamion, looking for it
[09:15] <ogra> in the System menu
[09:18] <Kamion> well, I can reproduce the password bug here - now for an instrumented run
[09:20] <Pygi> jono: writing book about dapper?
[09:20] <Kamion> god, how the hell did this slip past
[09:21] <jono> Pygi, yep
[09:21] <Pygi> jono: k, great ;) Now we'll have two :-P
[09:21] <jono> Pygi, you doing one?
[09:21] <Pygi> jono: aha ;)
[09:21] <jono> Pygi, who is yours for?
[09:22] <Pygi> great jono...continue the good work ;)
[09:22] <jono> Pygi, :)
[09:22] <Pygi> If you need any help with writing, let me know...
[09:22] <Pygi> Mine isn't on english... ;)
[09:23] <soumyadip> Kamion, ogra, hey thanks a ton for pointing the Language selector
[09:24] <jono> Pygi, croatian ?
[09:24] <Pygi> jono: yup
[09:24] <jono> cool :)
[09:24] <jono> good luck with it :)
[09:24] <Pygi> jono: thanks ;) good luck to you as well ;)
[09:25] <Pygi> if you need me to write few portions of book, please let me know ;)
[09:25] <jono> Pygi, man you like the ;)  :)
[09:25] <Pygi> jono: :)
[09:25] <jono> Pygi, cool thanks :)
[09:25] <jono> Pygi, we are nearly there
[09:26] <Pygi> jono: k...what's the focus in the book? regular users/what specificly?
[09:26] <jono> Pygi, its aimed at introducing new users to ubuntu
[09:26] <Kamion> soumyadip: np
[09:27] <Pygi> jono:  to only ubuntu or linux in general as well?
[09:27] <Pygi> jono: I guess it doesn't explain linux filesystem or somethin' along that lines?
[09:28] <jono> its just ubuntu
[09:28] <jono> Pygi, it covers the filesystem
[09:28] <Pygi> jono: hm, that's not really for people who just want to use system...but heh, your book :)
[09:29] <jono> Pygi, we just cover the basics
[09:29] <Pygi> jono: that's much better ^^
[09:29] <jono> :)
[09:30] <Pygi> let's move to #ubuntu-offtopic, ok? this is not appropriate channel..
[09:31] <Seveas> jono, I just mailed appendix A back to prentice hall, book looks not bad so far 
[09:31] <jono> Seveas, cool, its getting there :)
[09:31] <Seveas> I'm waiting for the revised chapters ;)
[09:56] <ssam> Kamion, eek http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=13951
[09:57] <ajmitch> ssam: it wouldn't take long
[09:58] <Kamion> yay osnews :-/
[09:58] <Kamion> I think I've isolated the twin causes
[09:59] <ajmitch> Kamion: is espresso the recommended install method for testing now?
[09:59] <Kamion> one is a very convoluted bug in cdebconf's passthrough implementation, and the other is an unfortunate consequence of using passthrough that we failed to work around
[09:59] <Kamion> ajmitch: mu
[09:59] <ajmitch> sorry :)
[09:59] <Kamion> ajmitch: (you assume there is a single recommended install method for testing ...)
[10:00] <ajmitch> heh
[10:06] <Kamion> I've phoned pitti, he'll be back shortly and I'll try to get an update out tonight if at all possible
[10:06] <Kamion> bloody hyperactive news sites
[10:06] <tepsipakki> :)
[10:06] <YokoZar> Hey, could someone running dapper tell me if clicking both the left and right mouse buttons simultaneously still does a middle click?  We should disable that behavior by default, since it screws up trying to click both mouse buttons in some apps (eg: games)
[10:07] <mjg59> YokoZar: It shouldn't if you've ever pushed the middle mouse button
[10:07] <mjg59> (I believe)
[10:07] <YokoZar> mjg59: well on breezy pushing both left + right acts as middle click
[10:07] <YokoZar> select some text and see it copy/paste it for yourself
[10:08] <mjg59> If I had a breezy machine handy, I would do so. But I don't.
[10:08] <YokoZar> So it doesn't on Dapper?
[10:08] <mjg59> If you feel it's a bug, then please report it. However, we're not likely to cripple the system for people who have two buttoned mice (such as most laptop users)
[10:11] <Kamion> so am I
[10:12] <Kamion> we should add "grep -r yourpassword /var/log" to some testing procedure somewhere
[10:12] <YokoZar> mjg59: I had a bug on this a while ago
[10:12] <YokoZar> The main problem is we can't configure the left/right click behavior from the mouse applet
[10:12] <mjg59> That's correct
[10:13] <mjg59> There's no mechanism for you to do so
[10:13] <mjg59> It's an X server preference, not a per-user preference
[10:13] <YokoZar> Other than hand editing x's config
[10:13] <mjg59> The same issue applies to synaptics configuration
[10:13] <YokoZar> The point is that SHOULD be adjustable per-user
[10:13] <YokoZar> Like, some sort of X extension that lets it be changed for the session
[10:13] <mjg59> To make it adjustable per-user would involve writing a new X extension
[10:14] <mjg59> Given that we don't currently have an X maintainer, that's unlikely to happen in the near future
[10:14] <YokoZar> ;)
[10:14] <YokoZar> Maybe I'll draft a spec
[10:14] <mjg59> Ideally, incorporate synaptics configuration
[10:14] <mjg59> The same issues apply to both
[10:15] <YokoZar> And forward it to the xorg people
[10:15] <YokoZar> wait, what do you mean about synaptics configuration?
[10:15] <mjg59> Synaptics trackpad configuration is impractical without a similar X extension
[10:19] <YokoZar> Mouse configuration spec or somesuch
[10:23] <Chipzz> YokoZar: I feel the urge to hurt you ;P
[10:23] <Chipzz> YokoZar: how would I be supposed to paste on my laptop?
[10:24] <YokoZar> Chipzz: ctrl-v?
[10:24] <Chipzz> no
[10:24] <YokoZar> right click, paste?
[10:24] <Chipzz> I use BOTH ctrl-c/ctrl-v AND pasting using the mouse button
[10:25] <YokoZar> copy/paste is still horribly broken anyway.  I've lost count of the number of times I've hit control-c, gone to another program, hit ctrl-v, and had nothing happen
[10:25] <Chipzz> and vim copy/paste in vim, and when that is not enough (and if available) the screen copy/paste keys ;P
[10:25] <YokoZar> Particularly annoying when you select all, copy, then close the window expecting your text to be alive
[10:26] <mjg59> YokoZar: There are two mechanisms for copy/paste. The middle mouse button one is separate to ctrl+c/ctrl+v
[10:26] <YokoZar> mjg59: right.  That's really strange in and of itself, but I don't use the middle mouse one at all and still see rather broken things like above
[10:26] <Chipzz> and having both available is a blessing (for me) :)
[10:26] <Chipzz> and I suspect for other users too
[10:27] <YokoZar> As much as it pains me to say, copy/paste seems to work a lot better and clear on Windows
[10:28] <Chipzz> that's a whole seperate issue
[10:29] <Chipzz> btw I'm using rxvt, which doesn't support ctrl-c/ctrl-v
[10:29] <Chipzz> and I suspect neither does xterm :P
[10:31] <ogra> and since my laptops all only have two keys, emulate3button is essential
[10:31] <ogra> s/keys/buttons/
[10:38] <YokoZar> Chipzz: xterm does support shift+insert instead of ctrl-v
[10:54] <pitti> hello
[10:55] <zyga> hey pitti
[10:55] <Kamion> hi, just sending you mail
[10:55] <zyga> do you happen to own a mac mini?
[10:55] <pitti> no, unfortunately not :)
[10:56] <zyga> I'm looking at my box, wide open and wondering wether I should 'upgrade' the cpu by removing some resistors
[10:59] <zyga> hmm
[11:01] <Kamion> it would be so nice if folks would give a guy time to fix the damn thing on a Sunday
[11:02] <zyga> Kamion: ay, is there any way to fix this apart from chown root:root $damn_file && chmod 600 $damn_file?
[11:02] <Kamion> zyga: I'm working on it, the fewer questions the better if you don't mind
[11:02] <ogra> zyga, just wait for the fix
[11:02] <zyga> sure, sorry
[11:02] <Kamion> (more questions => fix will take longer, I'm critical path)
[11:02] <zyga> I'm not affected actually
[11:38] <YokoZar> In Dapper, if you open up the disks manager applet, click partition properties, and then click browse, will it still open it with root privileges?
[11:38] <YokoZar> I'd like to close/reopen this bug, as it is a security issue: http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=17049
[11:38] <Ubugtu> ubuntu bug 17049 in gnome-system-tools "Browsing as root from disks manager" [Normal,New]  
[11:43] <LaserJock> YokoZar: the bug is "Unconfirmed" in Malone
[11:43] <YokoZar> LaserJock: well, I can confirm it for Breezy, heh.
[11:44] <LaserJock> YokoZar: well, that doesn't help much for Dapper
[11:44] <YokoZar> If you're on Dapper, you can try it yourself right now by opening up the disks manager
[11:45] <YokoZar> system->admin->disks, click partitions, click browse.  Make a file, see if it was made by root or your user
[11:45] <LaserJock> hmm, I don't have my Dapper box running at the moment
[11:47] <LaserJock> YokoZar: I'm getting a couple guys in #ubuntu-motu to try it. ;-)
[11:48] <YokoZar> Thanks LaserJock
[11:49] <zyga> I'm on dapper if anyone needs
[11:52] <YokoZar> We've confirmed it zyga
[11:53] <zyga> ok
[11:56] <ogra> YokoZar, why do you think its a bug ? if i run under root rights, i expect that behavior
[11:57] <ogra> i think its at least very questionable to call it a bug
[11:57] <YokoZar> Because I would expect it to open without root privs, like every other nautilus window.
[11:58] <ogra> not if i just gave my password and was told i work in admin mode 
[11:58] <ogra> its exactly waht i'd expect in this case
[11:58] <LaserJock> ogra: do you have to start disk manager as root? I mean put in a password to open it up?
[11:58] <ogra> yep
[11:58] <ogra> you have to sudo 
[11:59] <LaserJock> oh, well then I see your point
[11:59] <YokoZar> At the very least it needs to be made clear it's not a normal nautilus window
[11:59] <zyga> tip: yellowish background!
[11:59] <YokoZar> see this: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UsefulDisksManagerSpec
[12:00] <ogra> just change the wording of the button would be my fix
[12:00] <ogra> "Browse in admin mode"
[12:00] <zyga> ogra, then there'll be bugs about missing button: browse in normal mode
[12:01] <ogra> haha
[12:01] <YokoZar> He's right, you know
[12:01] <ogra> nope...
[12:01] <YokoZar> I'd prefer the normal mode button anyway
[12:01] <ogra> what for ? 
[12:01] <YokoZar> Why do you need to nautilus around with root privs?
[12:01] <ogra> you can just use a normal filemanager if you want to browse files
[12:02] <zyga> ogra: then the button is useless, if someone just wants to browse files she/he cannot use it
[12:02] <ogra> its pointless to have a "browse" button there if its not for root, since you can just use your nautilus
[12:02] <YokoZar> Then you have to find the partition you just created by hand.  The whole point is it gets a lot easier to just click it from inside the applet
[12:02] <zyga> I agree about changing the wording but there is obviously a bigger bug here
[12:02] <YokoZar> Maybe we should finish drafting that spec I posted
[12:02] <YokoZar> Lots of work could be done on the disks manager
[12:03] <ogra> either drop the button or change the wording, but a user "browse" button is useless