[12:22] <Burgundavia> hmm, nice opinion piece on lxer. Novell should by linspire, xandros and canonical
[12:30] <LaserJock> hi mkde 
[12:30] <mkde> hiya LaserJock 
[12:30] <mkde> all well?
[12:31] <LaserJock> oh, frantically working on many different projects
[12:31] <LaserJock> trying to get taxes done this weekend :(
[12:32] <LaserJock> trying to figure out if I can fix anything in Universe
[12:32] <mkde> ouch
[12:32] <mkde> hate the damn taxes
[12:32] <LaserJock> well, I just realized that I might not have all the info I need so I've got to got rooting around to find it :/
[12:35] <mkde> shall I do a pdf for the packaging guide?
[12:36] <LaserJock> mkde: I don't know if it would be all the usefull at this moment  but I'd like to have it in the future for sure.
[12:37] <LaserJock> is it built like the html at doc.ubuntu.com?
[12:37] <mkde> no, it's rather different
[12:37] <mkde> it's a bit sucky right now, I don't know how to do snazzy colours and such
[12:38] <LaserJock> if it is a big deal don't worry about it. it would be nice to have it eventually though
[12:38] <mkde> no, it's not a big deal at all, I've made them for the server/desktop guides
[12:38] <LaserJock> mkde: do you have to do them by hand? or do you have a cronjob?
[12:39] <mkde> so far I've done them by hand
[12:39] <mkde> still playing
[12:40] <LaserJock> yeah, I saw the serverguide pdf. It looks pretty cool even though it doesn't have the colors
[12:40] <mkde> I'm gonna put a new one up, I've added some admonition images
[12:41] <LaserJock> ah, I did notice that they weren't there. I am rather fond of them :)
[12:42] <mkde> uploading now
[12:45] <LaserJock> mdke: URL? I forgot already
[12:45] <mkde> http://doc.ubuntu.com/test
[12:45] <mkde> packaging guide is there
[12:46] <LaserJock> cool
[12:47] <mkde> I'd like to get some coloured links, and such
[12:47] <mkde> but I don't understand pdf making in any way
[01:31] <mkde> is a table of contents a good idea for the pdfs
[01:31] <mkde> ?
[01:33] <LaserJock> hmm, it is nice if they are linked
[01:34] <mkde> yes they are
[01:34] <mkde> although right now, the page numbers are wrong :D
[01:37] <LaserJock> hmm, well that would be a problem
[01:38] <mkde> no, my bad
[01:39] <mkde> actually, i just didn't realise the page numbers of the pdf are different to the page numbers of the document
[01:39] <mkde> man, I'm thick
[01:45] <mkde> ok /me masters the table of contents
[01:45] <LaserJock> sweet
[01:46] <mkde> reuploaded
[01:48] <mkde> now then
[01:48] <mkde> the tricky bit
[01:48] <LaserJock> ohhhh, preeety :)
[01:48] <mkde> those blank pages before the TOC, and the crappy invisible-to-the-naked-eye linking
[02:02] <mkde> ROCK
[02:02] <mkde> blue links!
[02:06] <LaserJock> uploaded?
[02:06] <mkde> uploading
[02:07] <Madpilot> mkde, which doc is this for?
[02:07] <mkde> Madpilot: all the Ubuntu ones, i might do the kubuntu ones too
[02:07] <mkde> uploaded. http://doc.ubuntu.com/test
[02:07] <mkde> mmm
[02:09] <Madpilot> looks good. How much fine control do you have?
[02:11] <Madpilot> on pg23 of desktopguide.pdf, the title "Browse Network Computers" is on the end of one page, but all the actual content of that section is on the top of the next page
[02:11] <mkde> that is doable
[02:12] <LaserJock> Madpilot: man, the layout nazi. mdke has just been trying to get the links to work ;-)
[02:12] <Madpilot> I read the backscroll, saw the links & pictures were working, and brought up the next thing I noticed :P
[02:13] <mkde> :))
[02:13] <mkde> i love this group
[02:15] <Madpilot> interesting how much whitespace the <procedure> tag generates above itself in those pdfs
[02:15] <mkde> might be a while before I get on to that one though
[02:16] <mkde> I still haven't got a clue what I'm doing
[02:16] <Madpilot> which app are you using for creating the pdfs?
[02:16] <mkde> something called fop
[02:17] <LaserJock> I used that in Windows once to build pdfs of the packaging guide
[02:18] <LaserJock> btw Windows really sucks for tying to do docbook work
[02:18] <mkde> heh
[02:22] <LaserJock> and OSX only seems to work because I can install the *nix programs to do it
[02:23] <mkde> Madpilot: looks like we can't fix the windowed sect2 titles
[02:24] <mkde> at least with fop, it doesn't do it
[02:24] <Madpilot> ah well 
[02:25] <mkde> commercial software is required, it seems
[02:26] <Madpilot> or more complex stuff like importing our stuff into Scribus, which would be a lot of work
[02:28] <mkde> i don't think we can solve the procedure whitespace issue either :/
[02:32] <rob> hi
[02:32] <rob> have you all seen this? http://live.gnome.org/LiveDocumentationEditing
[02:32] <rob> there is a live demo, it looks pretty good
[02:33] <rob> note that it hasn't been maintained in at least 6 months, but I could probably do something with it
[02:33] <mkde> cool
[02:33] <mkde> that danilo guy is fricking awesome
[02:33] <rob> yeah, he emailed me the other day about it
[02:33] <mkde> oh yeah?
[02:34] <rob> he was sponsored under the google summer of code
[02:35] <mkde> he saw your email to -devel?
[02:35] <rob> yeah
[02:35] <rob> its pretty much what I eventually envisioned, even more so
[02:35] <mkde> i wonder if he uses Ubuntu
[02:35] <rob> but needs a fair bit more work
[02:36] <rob> but thats where I'll come in :)
[02:37] <rob> I was originally going to help out on gai, but they pretty much have that covered (the new version is awesome)
[02:38] <rob> mdke, how is the 6 week extention on dapper going to affect the docs?
[02:39] <theCore> hi LaserJock
[02:39] <mkde> rob: there has been no decision on either thing
[02:39] <mkde> the extension, or the effect on the docs
[02:40] <rob> well if it goes ahead (which it most likely will), will the docs be given the extra time too?
[02:40] <mkde> my view would be to keep the string freeze the same, or move it by about a week
[02:40] <mkde> and lump the extra time on translations
[02:40] <rob> they could use the time I guess
[02:41] <mkde> very much so
[02:41] <mkde> there is a LOT of stuff to translate
[02:41] <mkde> and the docs are in great shape
[02:41] <mkde> but anyhow, who knows if it will be delayed or not
[02:41] <theCore> a 6 weeks extension ?
[02:41] <rob> mark emailed the lists
[02:42] <mkde> Madpilot: ok actually the whitespace in lists thing is solved
[02:42] <theCore> lemme check this out
[02:42] <LaserJock> hi theCore 
[02:47] <theCore> LaserJock: is there a section you would like I work out ?
[02:48] <mkde> ok, I've gone about as far as I am likely to get on the pdfs
[02:48] <mkde> get em here: http://doc.ubuntu.com/pdf
[02:48] <LaserJock> theCore: could you work on the appendix a bit?  fill it out
[02:48] <mkde> feedback to the list :)
[02:50] <theCore> LaserJock: no problem
[02:50] <theCore> rob: which mailing list ?
[02:51] <mkde> theCore: -doc, -devel-announce, -art, etc
[02:51] <Madpilot> theCore, sounder, at least - don't think it went to doc
[02:51] <LaserJock> theCore: particularly filling in the Additional Resources with little descriptions and adding a little text (Probably from the Debian New Maitainer's Guide) for the .ex example files.
[02:51] <mkde> yeah was on doc too
[02:52] <mkde> launchpad, fridge
[02:52] <LaserJock> also on the forums
[02:52] <LaserJock> theCore: basically you missed out ;-)
[02:54] <theCore> LaserJock: I work a lot these days, so I can't really keep up
[02:54] <theCore> My mailbox has 300 unread messages
[02:55] <LaserJock> theCore: well, do what you can and send me short diffs, OK?
[02:56] <theCore> okay
[03:11] <theCore> there something funny in my install ... 
[03:13] <theCore> ( /etc/skel/Examples/Video/mdzzzz.ogg ;)
[03:13] <mkde> theCore: yes
[04:17] <LaserJock> arrghhh, I hate taxes >:(
[04:39] <mgalvin> bah, gmail is starting to annoy me
[04:39] <mgalvin> mdke: those pdf's look really great
[04:40] <mgalvin> if any issues can be worked out i would say to push forward and use the,
[04:41] <mgalvin> they also provide readers with a way to properly print out the guides if they so choose
[04:41] <mkde> I think they are shippable already
[04:41] <mkde> I don't think they are going to improve much from here
[04:47] <robotgeek> mdke: nice job on the pdf's
[04:47] <Burgundavia> indeed. They look fine
[04:47] <Burgundavia> fine as in mighty fine
[04:49] <mkde> heh
[04:49] <Burgundavia> not fine as in not great
[04:49] <mkde> gotcha
[04:49] <Burgundavia> damn language
[04:50] <robotgeek> why did dapper's delay hit slashdot
[04:50] <robotgeek> proposed nonetheless
[04:50] <Burgundavia> because slashdot is not news?
[04:50] <Burgundavia> well flight 5 hit digg yesterday
[04:51] <Burgundavia> I saw a great piece on cbc about marketing cool
[04:51] <Burgundavia> and how Apple is cool
[04:51] <Burgundavia> Ubuntu is gaining something similar
[04:52] <mkde> night all
[04:53] <robotgeek> night mdke 
[05:33] <robotgeek> Madpilot: ping
[05:33] <Madpilot> hmm?
[05:33] <robotgeek> http://packages.ubuntu.com/dapper/libs/libdvdread3 says libdvdcss2 is unavailable, how do dvd's work in dapper?
[05:34] <Madpilot> no idea. I don't actually own any DVDs
[05:35] <robotgeek> same problem here
[05:36] <Madpilot> I can pick one up from work Monday, though, and test it on the Flight5 liveCD I'm torrenting. (I've got two optical drives)
[05:36] <robotgeek> nice, let me know
[05:37] <robotgeek> Madpilot: i think the nvidia settings needs to be changed in udg too, "nvidia-settings" is not installable in dapper
[05:37] <robotgeek> however, the binary is a part of the package itself, leading to a one line fix :)
[05:38] <Madpilot> robotgeek, I've got an ATI card here - ask on the list for Nvidia owners
[05:38] <robotgeek> nvidia-glx package, i mean
[05:38] <robotgeek> Madpilot: i asked, you want me to go ahead and change it?
[05:38] <Madpilot> might as well
[05:40] <robotgeek> crap, Tm_T was wrong. 
[05:51] <Burgundavia> you need libdvdread3 as well as the css one
[05:52] <Burgundavia> and gstreamer0.10-dvd, but I don;'t know if that has been ported yet
[05:52] <robotgeek> Burgundavia: hmm, but libdvdcss is not available?
[05:52] <Burgundavia> that is only avaibable through marilliat
[05:52] <Burgundavia> there are legal issues with having it availabe
[05:53] <Burgundavia> available, even
[05:53] <robotgeek> they got rid of the script?
[05:54] <Burgundavia> what script?
[05:55] <robotgeek> okay, it is still in there. 
[05:55] <Burgundavia> the one to download libdvdcss2?
[05:55] <robotgeek> someone complained about a amd64 version
[05:57] <Burgundavia> the sticking point is that with totem-gstreamer, there is gstreamer0.10-dvd plugin yet
[05:59] <Burgundavia> ok, asking on #gstreamer about dvd playback
[06:15] <Madpilot> hi jsgotangco 
[06:15] <Burgundavia> salut jsgotangco
[06:15] <robotgeek> hey jsgotangco 
[06:16] <jsgotangco> hi!
[06:16] <jsgotangco> hey all, nice to be back home :)
[06:58] <mgalvin> i was going to commit all my screenshots to svn
[06:58] <mgalvin> where are we keeping new ones now (C|en|both)?
[06:59] <jsgotangco> ohh i didnt know flight 5 came out already
[07:00] <mgalvin> yup, digg.com jumped the gun on the announcement so tollef released it today
[07:00] <jsgotangco> the pumpkin release
[07:00] <jsgotangco> heh
[07:00] <mgalvin> :)
[07:00] <jsgotangco> that's the problem with sites allowing communities to actually post
[07:00] <jsgotangco> :/
[07:01] <mgalvin> yea, on that note, to prevent further ramblings on the review pages, henrick and i move all the flight reviews to www.ubuntu.com
[07:02] <mgalvin> its a better setup to handle the load anyway
[07:02] <jsgotangco> yes that's better
[07:02] <jsgotangco> a lot of press has been using the wiki lately as reference and dub it official
[07:06] <mgalvin> meh, i will just commit them in both places (since that is how it is now) and we could always remove what we don't need
[07:07] <mgalvin> i figure we could probably use some of them for other things too
[07:22] <jsgotangco> what you'll have to prepare now is consolidate all the changes in the future to be used a release notes
[07:27] <mgalvin> yup
[07:27] <mgalvin> has anyone worked on the dapper release notes at all?
[07:28] <jsgotangco> none yet
[07:28] <jsgotangco> well i used to have a draft
[07:28] <jsgotangco> for breezy
[07:28] <jsgotangco> well it was actually used for breezy
[07:28] <Burgundavia> have you seen what davyd has done with the gnome 2.14 stuff?
[07:28] <mgalvin> Burgundavia: yup
[07:28] <jsgotangco> you can just continue DapperReleaseNotes and consolidate everything
[07:28] <mgalvin> how does the string freeze effect release notes?
[07:29] <mgalvin> would i have to get in done with the next few days or so
[07:29] <jsgotangco> not at all
[07:29] <mgalvin> yea, i see the breezy notes in svn
[07:29] <jsgotangco> its a very dynamic doc and its much better to do it on a wiki
[07:29] <jsgotangco> so that even the others can contribute to it
[07:29] <Burgundavia> gnome builds their release notes out of cvs with docbook
[07:30] <Burgundavia> we should investigate how they do this and harness for ourselves
[07:30] <mgalvin> yea, i like doing the reviews on the wiki but they are less official... the official release notes should probably live in svn/docbook
[07:31] <mgalvin> i can certainly investigate gnomes process a bit
[07:32] <Burgundavia> we can probably build a wiki markup instead of an html markup
[07:32] <mgalvin> i will probably take a crack at putting together the dapper release notes over the next few days
[07:32] <jsgotangco> if you're going to do it in svn, i'll look at it too since i did the previous one
[07:33] <mgalvin> hmm, true, we could easily build both
[07:33] <jsgotangco> my wiki monitoring has been out of control lately
[07:33] <mgalvin> ok cool
[07:38] <Burgundavia> salut robitaille
[07:42] <robitaille> Bonsoir Burgundavia 
[07:52] <mgalvin> are both the release notes docs going to be used or should i just create a new one for dapper and leave the old one alone?
[07:58] <Burgundavia> mgalvin: you talking about the breezy ones?
[08:01] <mgalvin> Burgundavia: yes, there is release-notes.xml and breezy-release-notes.xml... should i create dapper-release-notes.xml and update release-notes.xml or just create the new dapper-release-notes.xml and leave the other as is?
[08:02] <jsgotangco> lol i post a picture of a girl on planet and it gets 40 hits in less than an hour
[08:03] <mgalvin> hehe :)
[08:03] <jsgotangco> lol
[08:03] <robotgeek> 42
[08:03] <jsgotangco> stupid phone camera can't even make decent photos at 1.3MP
[08:05] <robotgeek> i need to track the visits to my blog, 1377 visits since march 02, 2006. seems unnatural :P
[08:06] <jsgotangco> the G-A-I screenshot i made had 1,521 hits
[08:06] <mgalvin> jsgotangco: when you created the breezy-release-notes.xml did you also update release-notes.xml?
[08:07] <jsgotangco> no
[08:07] <jsgotangco> release-notes.xml is very very old
[08:07] <mgalvin> ok, then i will leave it alone
[08:07] <jsgotangco> lol
[08:08] <mgalvin> everybody loves screenshots
[08:08] <mgalvin> except ISP's
[08:08] <Burgundavia> no, they love them too, if you pay them per GB
[08:10] <mgalvin> oh yea! :) i've had over 200GB of data transfer since making those... hence another reason for moving them to the main site
[08:10] <mgalvin> although luckily is have stayed under the limit
[08:11] <mgalvin> s/is/i
[08:11] <jsgotangco> i have a dedicated server on the west coast that has 2,000GB of data transfer but its not cheap either
[08:11] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco: west coast of where?
[08:11] <jsgotangco> us
[08:12] <Burgundavia> ah yes
[08:12] <Burgundavia> ok, why the hell is my editor still up at 3am?
[08:12] <jsgotangco> they have lots of bandwidth
[08:12] <Burgundavia> and checked her work mail?
[08:12] <jsgotangco> lol
[08:12] <jsgotangco> don't you like that
[08:12] <jsgotangco> heh
[08:13] <Burgundavia> I think I am going to write a book called "Writing a book is hard"
[08:14] <jsgotangco> robotgeek: why is there a section about installing quake?
[08:14] <robotgeek> jsgotangco: hmm, it was in udg, so i left it in there
[08:15] <robotgeek> http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/desktopguide/C/games.html
[08:15] <Burgundavia> probably a remnant of the ubuntuguide
[08:15] <jsgotangco> is quake packaged or redistributable?
[08:15] <robotgeek> if you ahve the cd
[08:15] <jsgotangco> robotgeek: personally, what is not in our repositories should be removed
[08:15] <robotgeek> i think you can also apt-get install quake3?
[08:15] <robotgeek> lemme see
[08:16] <Burgundavia> no
[08:16] <Burgundavia> there is free data for quake and quake2, but nothing yet for quake3
[08:16] <robotgeek> yeah, i wouldn't mind nuking it
[08:16] <robotgeek> i don't play games anyways :)
[08:16] <jsgotangco> wonder if someone packaged aleph one
[08:17] <Burgundavia> games are for people avoiding doing things like *cough* writing books *cough*
[08:18] <mgalvin> gdebi is really neat for these late tired and lazy 2 am hacking sessions
[08:18] <mgalvin> one less command to type :)
[08:18] <robotgeek> heh, commented out. 
[08:19] <robotgeek> oh, i have to copy over the graphics section now
[08:20] <Burgundavia> robotgeek: just nuke it
[08:20] <robotgeek> Burgundavia: okies
[08:21] <Burgundavia> commenting out is like #ifdef-ing stuff
[08:21] <Burgundavia> it means that you are trying to avoid pissing somebody off
[08:21] <Burgundavia> and can't come to consensus
[08:21] <robotgeek> yeah, i'll nuke it
[08:22] <jsgotangco> robotgeek: my rationale for nuking some sections like quake is that dapper will have 3 years on the desktop hence, an admin will have to bear with 3 years of users installing such apps
[08:23] <robotgeek> jsgotangco: +1
[08:28] <mgalvin> good night all
[08:28] <jsgotangco> ciao
[08:28] <robotgeek> night mgalvin 
[08:29] <Burgundavia> our release notes should be more graphical
[08:29] <Burgundavia> our press release can be non-graphical
[08:35] <robotgeek> should scribus be in office or in graphics?
[08:35] <robotgeek> i have no clue about dtp
[08:35] <robotgeek> and graphics too :)
[08:35] <robotgeek> is Krita the kde equivalent of Gimp
[08:35] <Burgundavia> graphics
[08:35] <Burgundavia> and yes
[08:36] <robotgeek> grumbles
[08:36] <robotgeek> jsut when i thought i wa done :)
[08:37] <jsgotangco> yes
[08:37] <jsgotangco> robotgeek: just install a new kubuntu build and it should be in a correct category
[08:38] <robotgeek> i actually havent seen scribus in action yet
[08:38] <jsgotangco> lol
[08:39] <robotgeek> step 1 -> open adept, step 2 -> isntall step3 -> launch from Kmenu -> wherever
[08:39] <robotgeek> done!
[08:40] <robotgeek> jsgotangco: beat this, i has menu entries in both graphics and office :)
[08:41] <robotgeek> i'm putting it in graphics, i don't care if you use it in your office 
[08:43] <Madpilot> Burgundavia, in Ubuntu, Scribus is in the Office submenu
[08:44] <jsgotangco> hrmmm
[08:44] <jsgotangco> jeezz its probably around 31C here at the moment
[08:44] <robotgeek> nice
[08:45] <Burgundavia> Madpilot: hmm
[08:45] <Madpilot> It's around 2C here, we had actual snow a few nights ago
[09:14] <robotgeek> Madpilot: i am wondering how to include the bookinfo credits for you guys
[09:15] <Madpilot> for the Ubuntu Desktop Guide authors, you mean?
[09:16] <robotgeek> kdg is based on udg, so the current author list from udg must get credit
[09:18] <Madpilot> put the KDG group first, then say something like "KDG is based on the UDG, which was worked on by the following additional people:"
[09:18] <robotgeek> there is not group, as such. for kdg
[09:19] <robotgeek> i basically had to rewrite the entire sections
[09:20] <robotgeek> :w
[09:20] <robotgeek> sorry, wrong window
[09:37] <robotgeek> committed, i'm out
[09:38] <Madpilot> later, robotgeek 
[11:53] <Burgundavia> anybody else having issues with google?
[11:58] <jsgotangco> mine is pretty good
[12:41] <Burgundavia> night all
[11:43] <LaserJock> hi mdke_  and Madpilot 
[11:43] <Madpilot> hi