[12:05] ogra_: I'm trying to get a better handle on science apps. I'd like to keep in touch with Edubuntu for Dapper+1. If we can do some packaging that is helpful for you or do some meta-packages let me know. I'll try to follow Edubuntu a little better so I have an idea of what is going on. [12:07] I have a question.. who is it that gets to vote on Dapper's 6-week delay, exactly? is it only the TB? or is it all of Membership? or core-devs or something else? [12:07] yeah, tels talk about the app selection in preparation of dapper+1, i can need some input of people knowing about all the apps [12:07] s/tels/lets [12:07] dolson: I think it will be a "town hall" type meeting but the ultimate decision will be for the TB I think [12:08] ogra_: sounds good :-) [12:08] yeah :) [12:08] I get the general feeling from people in here that they don't want the delay, but a lot (~90%) of end users want it.. should be interesting how it turns out === Hobbsee [n=Hobbsee@ubuntu/member/hobbsee] has joined #ubuntu-motu [12:12] i dont want to loose our reputation ... we always released on the point. and i dont want a 4 month release cycle for dapper+1 [12:12] hi Hobbsee [12:12] hey LaserJock [12:12] ogra_: I hope you're on the TB :) (I'm ignorant) [12:13] ogra_: it won't be a 4-month cycle for dapper+1, we'd have two weeks less for dapper +1, +2 and +3 [12:14] dolson: http://www.ubuntu.com/community/processes/techboard [12:15] LaserJock: it should have IRC nicks in parentheses :) [12:15] dolson, i'm not :) [12:15] regclean [12:15] Mithrandir, ah, makes sense [12:16] in the interest of bugfixes/stability, would it not make sense to release Ubuntu with each .1 release of GNOME? [12:16] dolson: I suppose. mdz, Keybuck, sabdfl, and mjg 59 I think [12:19] dolson: but I think ubuntu has been doing that since the very beginning? (the gnome .1 releases) [12:19] minghua: .2 then :) [12:20] hmm, shouldn't sabdfl not allowed for voting on this since it's his proposal :-P [12:20] releases in May/November would give time for additional GNOME bugfixes at the very least.. but meh, I don't know. I don't want any delay, I just see it happening consistantly if it happens once === Erlang [i=neumann@toronto-HSE-ppp4000837.sympatico.ca] has joined #ubuntu-motu [12:25] ogra_: dapper+1 will be about getting bling in, hard and fast. Should be perfect for a 4.5 month realease cycle [12:26] sladen, i have a ton of postponed features pending ... i dont want them to be unstable but blingy :) [12:27] hopefully alot of the unstability may disappear with a longer period spent cleaning up the bugs [12:27] not for the new stuff :) [12:27] I'm looking at the desktop at the moment and I'm a bit disappointed with it (but that could be the latest reaction to the ubuntulooks that landed) [12:27] (which wasnt in dapper) [12:28] i'm pondering to keep the brown for edubuntu ... [12:28] (gtk and metacity) [12:28] your screenshot was very convincing, dont throw that gtkrc away :) [12:30] I have a hand-fixed diff so that I could visual the changes they made [12:31] I was thinking of trying to get an HumanClassic into main [12:31] with the argument and people such as schools/corporates may want to keep a consistent style if they've taught it === Erlang is now known as Neumann [12:31] yeah ... [12:33] http://www.paul.sladen.org/ubuntu/upload/gtkrc_ubuntulooks-0.9.2-vs-clearnlooks-handhacked.diff it's not much to change it back [12:33] I'm happy with Orange, just not IN YOUR FACE foreground orange [12:34] sladen: it's less orange now, isn't it? [12:34] edubuntu already has organe wallpapers ... and yellow icons [12:34] sladen: I would be quite happy to see HumanClassic in main [12:34] hi MOTU's [12:34] *orange [12:34] I think that these orange icons are pretty nice [12:34] but metacity theme is really too bright [12:35] Mithrandir: I just install 0.9.2-1 but I can't notice a difference. I could probably take screenshots and compare them [12:35] and scrollbar decoration is pretty weird too [12:35] marcin`: progressbar or scrollbar? [12:36] sladen: scrollbar [12:36] sladen: I have problem with scroll bars too === Neumann is now known as Erlang [12:36] I even have a bug for it! bug #34415 [12:36] malone bug 34415 in ubuntulooks gtk2-engines-ubuntulooks "gtk2-engines-ubuntulooks: wish to have some delay for the scroll bar highlighting" [Wishlist,Unconfirmed] http://launchpad.net/bugs/34415 [12:36] :-) === Erlang is now known as Neumann [12:38] Mithrandir: urm, dude, diffing 'gtkrc' in 0,9.2 and 0.9.2-1 says they're identical! [12:38] sladen: seb said it was fixed. [12:39] the changelog talks about color changes as well iirc [12:39] ubuntulooks (0.9.5-1) dapper; urgency=low [12:39] . [12:39] * New upstream version: [12:39] - Changed the background selection color [12:39] - Changed the metacity theme color [12:39] - Disabled scrollbars look disabled [12:40] - Fixed progressbar color in menus [12:40] yep === sladen apt-get updates [12:40] oh, youre diffing 0.9.2 and 0.9.2-1 [12:41] this is where I need my delta sync [12:51] so, they've reduced the saturation from 100% to 81%... [12:52] oops. 100% to 81% === tritium [n=michael@ubuntu/member/tritium] has joined #ubuntu-motu [12:52] ~10% [12:58] evening sladen === Jobman [n=Jobman@p508E62CC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu [12:59] i like the orange [12:59] you are DUTCH [12:59] :D [12:59] I like the orange too :) [01:00] hi [01:00] that doesnt count as objective opinion [01:00] me tries the orange [01:00] i hope they don't remove too much orange [01:00] hmm [01:00] where is the orange meant to be ? [01:00] I'm not getting any [01:00] everywhere wher it was brown before [01:01] in the menu's and most of the gui interface [01:01] ogra: progress bars? [01:01] yep [01:01] ah [01:01] they're showing blue in KDE :D [01:01] only thing which might need improvement is the top bar of the windows [01:01] well - for me ;) [01:01] its a bit too plastic === Mez wonder if it's worth doing an apt-get install ubuntu-desktop [01:02] orange++ [01:02] spacey, you should see the new edubuntu wallpapers (sadly still confident until there was a basic selection) we'll have a lot new edubuntu users in .nl ;) === mat|l [n=mat@igoan/mat] has joined #ubuntu-motu [01:06] Mez: dont let yourself be corrupted :P === Hobbsee wants to see what it looks like, though [01:07] Hobbsee, lol - same here === Mez goes and looks at the screen shots [01:07] link please? [01:07] if you have one handy? === sevrin [n=sevrin@202.75.186.154] has joined #ubuntu-motu [01:12] ah, hello Hobbsee [01:12] hey ajmitch [01:12] what do you mean, corrupted? he's corrupted enough with his kde deviances [01:13] yeah [01:13] hehe - installing gnome is more corrupting though, surely! :P === Jobman [n=Jobman@p508E62CC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === Jobman [n=Jobman@p508E62CC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === Jobman [n=Jobman@p508E62CC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === _jaldhar [n=jaldhar@c-68-80-95-221.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu [01:21] ogra_: :D === kelmo_lap [n=kel@madwifi/support/kelmo] has joined #ubuntu-motu [01:26] evening mez. I nearly went through birmingham, in fact I might go through there today [01:26] LaserJock: so it seems scilab is essentially unusably in ubuntu? [01:27] sladen, well - i'll be around - feel free to poke me to say hi [01:27] minghua: I couldn't get it to work, and in unstable it is uninstabllable === plugwash [i=plugwash@p10link.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu [01:27] or are you going to meeting there? [01:27] (woodbrooke) [01:28] LaserJock: but you also said there is new upstream this February, is that what unstable has? [01:28] no [01:28] minghua: Debian has 2 RC bug that are ~ 6 months old [01:28] minghua: scilab was taken out of testing :( [01:29] minghua: the maintainer asked for an adoption so I emailed the person that responded to see where they are [01:29] <_jaldhar> minghua: you said there was a fedora skim package. Do you know where? It does not seem to be in the core 4 repository === _jaldhar is now known as jaldhar [01:30] _jaldhar: probably not a package. the fedora scim maintainer told me skim is not in fedora core [01:31] jaldhar: it may well be a private package he built himself (skim ships a .spec.in file, if I remember correctly) [01:31] minghua: oh ok [01:31] LaserJock: I see. It's quite a shame that we have a package not working since breezy (with a bug with 3-digit number, no less) :-( [01:32] LaserJock: but on the other hand it's non-free, which makes me reluctant to work on it === minghua go reads scilab's license [01:33] minghua: yeah, well I don't think it was so bad a while ago. I installed it ~ Dec. and it worked but it was buggy [01:36] Hmm, scilab's license is really quite hostile among the ones for non-libre but costless softwares === minghua hates the many meanings of word "free" [01:37] minghua: in what ways? I didn't look at it in detail. [01:38] LaserJock: do not allow using a modified version for any commercial use, even in-house [01:39] I didn't read the license either, just the FAQ [01:39] Mez: probably unlikely. I might go to Derby on my way, but I can't see myself waking up in time :) [01:40] Mez: the trains at el-crapo on Sunday mornings [01:40] Mez: what's the best way to ping you? [01:40] minghua: yeah, I would really like to work on getting upstreams to have a better license. The whole "free for academic or non-commercial use" is really prevalent in the sciences. [01:42] LaserJock: there is probably not much we can do about that [01:43] LaserJock: what I really don't like is the forbidden in-house commercial use part [01:43] minghua: debian-science made up a form letter to send to software authors. I'm not sure if something like that would help [01:44] so if I am in a company which doesn't make software at all, if I use scilab, I can't fix the bugs myself and has to wait for upstream? [01:44] that's something I probably can't bear with [01:44] LaserJock: well, considering there is a company behind, I seriously doubt a letter will make any difference [01:45] minghua: it's hard to try to complete with the big Windows proprietary software when the linux software equivalents have licenses that prevent people putting them in distros [01:45] minghua: yeah, I doubt in this case anything can be done (other than not use their software) but smaller projects perhaps [01:46] LaserJock: yes, I generally like the idea of sending upstream requests to change licensing [01:46] LaserJock: just pessimistic on the scilab case [01:47] minghua: yeah, I looked at the new version (4.0) to see if they had changed it by chance. No such luck :( [01:48] heh [01:48] one man can dream, can't he? ;-) [01:49] sure, he just might get disapointed a lot === santiagoroza [n=santiago@200-55-113-175.dsl.prima.net.ar] has joined #ubuntu-motu [01:51] LaserJock: okay, I've now read the license. It seems porting patches and bug fixes are not counted as "modified version", so it's much better than I thought [01:52] I was actually worrying if ubuntu is violating scilab's lincense :-) [01:52] hmm, that is kinda weird though [01:53] translation, on the other hand, counts as "modified version" [01:53] LaserJock: weird indeed [01:54] what? then that could potentially be a problem [01:54] I probably won't touch scilab's code without a lawyer if I am in industry [01:55] >:( === santiagoroza [n=santiago@200-55-113-175.dsl.prima.net.ar] has left #ubuntu-motu ["Leaving"] [01:57] makes me not feel very motivated to muck around trying to fix it either === theCore [n=alex@toronto-HSE-ppp3961222.sympatico.ca] has joined #ubuntu-motu === doko [n=doko@dslb-084-059-065-251.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === bddebian [n=bddebian@71.224.172.103] has joined #ubuntu-motu [03:19] Hey folks [03:19] hi bddebian [03:20] Hello dolson [03:20] hello bddebian [03:20] good to see you back here ;) [03:20] hi bddebian! [03:20] Heh, Hi ajmitch, LaserJock [03:20] bddebian: you've got a lot of bugfixing to catch up on, get working [03:20] haha [03:20] You know I can't fix anything :-) === ajmitch calls that BS [03:21] I seem unable to "fix" qt-x11-free on GNU/Hurd :-) === slomo [n=slomo@ubuntu/member/slomo] has joined #ubuntu-motu [03:22] noone can fix a broken system like that ;) [03:22] Which, qt or Hurd? :-) [03:22] both [03:22] Hey, who's the xfce guy, Riddell? [03:23] no, crimsun & janimo [03:23] Oh yeah, crims [03:23] un [03:23] especially janimo at the moment, it seems [03:23] riddell is the kubuntu guy [03:23] Ah right, sorry [03:25] Well damn, where are crimsun and janimo then? :-) [03:25] not here, obviously [03:25] Obviously [03:25] So, what have I missed? ;-) [03:25] a lot [03:27] You mean like a big argument over some stupid theme? :-) [03:28] that's minor === ajmitch waits for bddebian to start bugfixing [03:28] ajmitch: I already told you I can't fix anything [03:29] and I'm telling you to stop lying & start fixing [03:29] The last thing I did was "fix" a bug that wasn't necessar and screwed up versioning at the same time :-( [03:30] bah [03:30] so don't do that next time [03:30] everyone makes mistakes [03:31] Except you :-) [03:31] BS === sistpoty [n=sistpoty@ubuntu/member/sistpoty] has joined #ubuntu-motu [03:31] hey sistpoty [03:31] hi folks [03:31] Heya sistpoty [03:32] hi ajmitch and bddebian [03:32] sistpoty: you've done a few uploads lately :) [03:32] got through the sync list? [03:33] ajmitch: yes, my sync list is cleared now :) [03:33] There's still a synch list? :-) [03:33] great [03:33] bddebian: launchpad is broken for syncs, we're having to do them manually [03:33] bddebian: yes... unfortunately autosync is still not working/not being done :( [03:33] Yikes [03:34] What happened [03:34] the switch to soyuz [03:34] Launchpad is also broken for removals. [03:34] Ahh [03:34] The archive is in Hotel California mode. [03:34] StevenK: good to know. I wanted to get a package removed [03:35] StevenK: I think that may have been fixed [03:35] you guys know if it is possible to trigger a rebuild yet from LP? [03:36] none that I know of [03:36] sistpoty: care to help clearing my sync list? ;- [03:36] sistpoty: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2006-March/000564.html [03:37] sistpoty: can you help to upload a fake sync? [03:37] minghua: sure [03:37] sistpoty: the sources are here: ftp://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/pool/main/s/scim-tables/ [03:38] sistpoty: (or change the mirror name if you are not in US) [03:38] minghua: I'll just apt-get source them from my unstable ;) [03:38] sistpoty: thanks a lot [03:38] np [03:38] yeah, apt-get source is always good :-) [03:44] excellent, tried booting my main dapper box again & it died about 2 seconds into bootup [03:46] sweet [03:48] yeah [03:48] that's why the box has been shutdown for 3 weeks while I was in .au === slomo [n=slomo@ubuntu/member/slomo] has joined #ubuntu-motu [03:48] ajmitch: back in .nz? [03:48] yeah [03:49] cool === ajmitch can order that amd64 now [03:49] though I won't go for the ricer SLI motherboard like you did ;) [03:49] ajmitch: Get me one too ;-) [03:49] heh [03:50] Lathiat: most of the rest will be the same, except 4GB RAM [03:50] might as well give it enough to compile with [03:51] mm nifty [03:51] main reason i got the SLI mobo [03:51] was becuase it has 8 sata ports [03:51] i then decide, wtf, may as well get a second video card [03:51] ;p [03:52] (my case takes 12 drives) [03:52] which i plan on filling :) [03:52] ... when im less broke [03:52] heh [03:53] http://www.ascent.co.nz/ProductSpecification.aspx?itemID=339635 [03:53] ajmitch: Great, then you can get started on that amd64 GNU/Hurd port.. ;-P === ajmitch is going for the cheaper option [03:53] bddebian: no thanks [03:53] cool [03:53] Lathiat: I don't think I'll bother with 8 SATA ports at the moment [03:54] just putting 2x250GB drives in [03:54] well you wont really need them then :) === jcape [i=jcape@71.194.176.102] has joined #ubuntu-motu [03:54] might stock up a couple more later [03:54] and with my sound and hdtv card [03:54] yeah [03:54] i coulndt really stockpile with pci cards [03:54] just 1 later, hence [03:54] I'll use software RAID [03:54] that said, i'm going to have to ditch my second video card to do that [03:54] or get a pci-e sata controller (which i coudl do) [03:54] how well is all the onboard stuff supported? [03:54] as the 3rd pci card sits far too close to the second video card for my liking [03:55] ajmitch: it all works, but the realtek audio is just dodge, including in windows [03:55] using the ALSA driver, or realtek crap? [03:55] some alsa driver [03:55] it worked [03:55] ok [03:55] then it stopped detecting on the pci bus [03:55] and windows bluescreened with it all the time [03:55] I've got hda_intel in this laptop, just got the realtek codec going this week [03:55] and then i found a better driver, and the sound would just stop after about 5 minutes [03:56] crimsun is pushing for the updates to get into dapper's kernel [03:56] ajmitch: this worked on plain.. breezy or daper, 1 of the two [03:56] ok [03:56] that motherboard isnt much cheaper than mine [03:56] only by about 50 bucks [03:56] currency aside [03:56] how much si the a8n sli premium for you? [03:57] minghua: scim-tables uploaded ;) [03:57] too much [03:58] actually it's not much more [03:58] very little difference... [03:58] except out of stock at ascent [03:58] if you wanted a cheaper motherboard im sure you could find a cheaper.. motherboard [03:58] http://www.ascent.co.nz/ProductSpecification.aspx?ItemID=342509 [03:58] wah [03:58] i paid 249 [03:58] aud === ajmitch ponders going for the SLI bling [03:59] heh [03:59] ajmitch: you wont need sli blink ;p [03:59] you can see why it's out of stock :) [03:59] its a good board tho [03:59] sistpoty: thanks! I'll send a message to motu mailing list when it's built [03:59] of course I won't [03:59] Lathiat: it's not the same [03:59] you got the SLI premium [03:59] oh [03:59] thats not premium [03:59] i see [03:59] it looks the same in the photo [03:59] http://www.ascent.co.nz/ProductSpecification.aspx?ItemID=341441 [04:00] ah, it has the hardware switch [04:00] way more [04:00] also a fan on the chipsets [04:00] rather than the heatpipey thingy i have [04:00] ok [04:00] $332.64 [04:00] hah :) [04:00] i take it back [04:00] the a8n-e is cheaper [04:00] :) [04:01] ajmitch: if the prices are like that you should consider shipping them in or something ;p [04:01] compare nintek.com.au, currency convert and add shipping :) [04:01] yeah [04:01] shipping is expensive [04:02] mm nintek dont list intl shipping [04:02] what case you after? [04:02] got a case 2nd hand [04:02] lian-li [04:02] ooh those are sexy [04:02] which model? [04:03] PC 90, iirc === ajmitch can't recall the exact model num [04:04] nah [04:04] PC-71 [04:04] if its a pc90 i like those [04:04] ah [04:04] http://www.ascent.co.nz/ProductSpecification.aspx?ItemID=110990 [04:04] ooh nie [04:04] they are good too [04:04] i knwo someone with one of those [04:04] ouch @ the price [04:04] whatd you pay for it? [04:04] also, black or silver? [04:04] black [04:05] haven't paid him for it yet, got to agree on a price :) [04:05] haha [04:05] your system wont be far off mine at all ;p [04:05] better not get a cpu faster than 4200+ or i'll cry :) [04:06] you should get one of these http://www.xoxide.com/lian-li-pc-777-black.html [04:07] haha nice [04:07] bit nuts eh [04:08] yeah [04:11] i haven't riced mine up enough yet [04:11] no side window and no fans with leds in them [04:11] you have amd64 dapper on it? [04:11] or UV for that matter === ajmitch has a side window [04:11] nah [04:11] and I'll put flight5 on [04:11] ooh thats out now [04:11] see [04:11] im a kubuntu user [04:11] shame [04:11] wonder if that dailyu build went through [04:12] there was a bug in user-setup that stopped the kubuntu cd from installing [04:12] and they stopped dailies for flight, heh [04:12] should I get the live cd & try espresso? [04:12] but should bhe good now [04:12] i'd tyr it [04:12] but i wouldnt run my system off it [04:12] yeah [04:12] it feels dirty.. [04:12] heh [04:12] i'll be scrubbing myself for months [04:12] you prefer the classic installer? [04:12] yarp [04:12] why do you think it's dirty? [04:13] because it doesnt unpack everything properly :) [04:13] dirty :) [04:13] its like dd or rsyncing an install onto another machine ;p [04:14] heh [04:14] so bur.st's new server has 2 faulty drives it seems [04:14] teach me for buying WD [04:14] (out of 5) === ajmitch starts downloading the amd64 installer [04:15] problem with amd64 [04:15] is things like video codecs [04:15] and flash [04:15] java was a problem bu they fixed that [04:15] yeah [04:15] but I don't care about such things [04:15] i do [04:15] i watch movies all the time [04:15] flash less so, i also use java all the time [04:15] tho thats not an issue now [04:16] and the way around it is to install a chroot, and thats just but tugly [04:16] when is debian/ubuntu goign to get proper biarch support [04:16] aiui this can all work [04:17] s/biarch/multiarch/ [04:18] s/whatever [04:18] probably dapper+1, there was going to be a mini-sprint on it recently [04:18] who need smore than 2? ;p [04:19] some weird archs === StevenK is waiting for multiarch [04:21] I heard the biarch idea can't solve the "some arch want /lib and /lib64, while some other arch want /lib and /lib32" problem? [04:21] like amd64 vs. ppc [04:21] This will make watching movies on my amd64 much easier. [04:22] Lathiat: Yes, I'm getting irritated at my i386 chroot. It seems like such a hack. [04:24] hey StevenK === Lathiat wonders how much a difference 64bit makes in various applications [04:26] should I get 2 or 3 250GB drives for RAID? [04:26] 3 would give you raid5 [04:26] if I wanted it [04:26] it'd be a very wasteful raid 5 [04:26] well what would you do with 2 drives [04:26] raid0? [04:26] yeah [04:26] do you care about redundancy at all? === Lathiat doesnt particularly [04:27] all my important stuff is kept elsewhere [04:27] which pretty much falls down to my gpg and ssh keys [04:27]