[06:35] <Hobbsee> heh, more whinging about how bugs on the forums arent being fixed, only the ones in launchpad...
[06:37] <robotgeek> Hobbsee: where? lol
[06:37] <Hobbsee> robotgeek: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=140336
[06:37] <robotgeek> i need a good laugh with my beer
[06:37] <Hobbsee> hehe
[08:05] <mornfall> hmm
[08:37] <Riddell> "this is the only distribution where the developers don't read the forums" I don't know any developers in any project who reads forums
[08:40] <mornfall> well, users
[08:40] <mornfall> who cares :)
[08:43] <Lathiat> heh
[08:50] <Riddell> they have a point though, the cups stuff has taken too long to fix
[08:50] <Lathiat> oh
[08:50] <Lathiat> so thats not just me
[08:50] <Lathiat> i was meaning to ask about that
[08:50] <Lathiat> now i noticed it was broken on my fresh install at home
[08:51] <Riddell> amu: cool, you found the new logo
[08:51] <Lathiat> new logo?
[08:52] <Riddell> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/DapperKubuntuWebSiteLogo
[08:53] <Lathiat> cool
[08:53] <Lathiat> needs to be more spacing
[08:53] <Lathiat> between the gears and the semicircle thingys
[08:53] <Lathiat> more white
[08:54] <robotgeek> Riddell: any chance to pulling network manager in kubuntu, if we get the 6 week extension?
[08:54] <Riddell> robotgeek: nope
[08:54] <Lathiat> the extra 6 weeks is to fix bugs
[08:54] <Lathiat> not make more
[08:54] <Lathiat> ;p
[08:55] <mornfall> hmm? :)
[08:55] <mornfall> my personal guess is that the 6 weeks are to make up for the lack of freeze discipline ;-)
[08:55] <robotgeek> only asking cause there is not a decent wirelss tool in kubuntu. if this is not true, please let me know. and i will fix it in the guide
[08:56] <robotgeek> btw, the guide is almost done. 95%, and will make the doc string freeze too
[08:56] <Riddell> mornfall: partly yes, also it's partly for espresso
[08:56] <mornfall> robotgeek: url? :)
[08:57] <robotgeek> mornfall: http://doc.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/desktopguide-web/C/index.html
[08:57] <mornfall> thx
[08:59] <freeflying> Riddell: how about the knetwork manager ?
[09:00] <mornfall> hmm, adept guide is stalled again :|
[09:00] <mornfall> or more like still
[09:01] <mornfall> maybe i have to write my own docs
[09:01] <robotgeek> mornfall: jjesse was asking on the doc list, maybe you can answer
[09:01] <robotgeek> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-doc/2006-March/005494.html
[09:02] <mornfall> i'll try to catch him online
[09:03] <robotgeek> bug #30634
[09:03] <Ubugtu> malone bug 30634 in koffice "Cannot start any koffice application" [Normal,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/30634
[09:03] <robotgeek> anyone knows where the fix is? breezy-updates?
[09:18] <Riddell> robotgeek: should just be in breezy
[09:18] <robotgeek> Riddell: hmm, one guy was having this issue, kde 3.5.1 and stuff
[09:20] <robotgeek> hmm, i think i need to file a 'wishlist' bug about this. System Settings uses "install new theme" when it probably should be "install new icon set"
[09:40] <Riddell> allee: does the "Debian's Position on the GFDL" vote mean KDE docs don't have to be split out?
[09:41] <allee> Riddell: yes!!
[09:41] <allee> Riddell: and I can move digikam-doc and digiamimageplugins-doc from non-free to main :)
[09:41] <Riddell> yay :)
[09:42] <Riddell> what happened to the various problems the FDL had then?
[09:43] <allee> Riddell: the exception is only granted to FDL _without_ unmodifiable sections
[09:43] <allee> Riddell: that what KDE uses by default
[09:43] <allee> Riddell: so KDE docs (after verifying that the license says _without_ unmodifiable sections) is okay
[09:44] <allee> Riddell: a plain GFDL is still non-free in the sense of the DFSG
[09:48] <Riddell> but there's all this stuff http://people.debian.org/~srivasta/Position_Statement.xhtml
[09:48] <Riddell> DRM sections and the need for a transparent copy
[09:53] <Lathiat> wow that was enlightening
[09:54] <allee> Riddell: AFAIU all these problems are still unsolved.  The resolution does not say that the license is now free.  It only says it okay to include GFDL _without_ unmodifiable sections is okay to be included in main.
[09:55] <Riddell> there's also stuff like requirements on sections called "acknowledgements" and the like which assumes documents are in English
[09:56] <Riddell> the vote does say the FDL (without unmodifiable sections) is free
[09:56] <Riddell> "GFDL-licensed works without unmodifiable sections are free"
[09:56] <Lathiat> is a vote really technically sound tho :)
[10:01] <allee> acknowledgements restriction are in unmodifiable section categorie AFAIU.  But I'm far from a license expert ;)
[10:09] <MrFaber> hi all
[10:09] <MrFaber> Kubuntu Dapper Flight 5 isn't out or am I wrong?
[10:09] <MrFaber> Ubuntu Link works but not the one of kubuntu
[10:10] <Riddell> MrFaber: it is not, I'll be doing that today
[10:10] <Riddell> anyone got an amd64 to test on?
[10:10] <MrFaber> thx
[10:10] <robotgeek> Riddell: nalioth has one, but he's sleeping atm
[10:10] <MrFaber> Does anyone know if the installer security hole of Breezy is in Flight 5 too?
[10:11] <MrFaber> saving the password in question.dat without encryption?
[10:11] <robotgeek> MrFaber: that's only on breezy
[10:11] <Riddell> MrFaber: it's not in dapper at all
[10:11] <MrFaber> robotgeek, thanks
[10:11] <robotgeek> Riddell: i also know apokryphos has a amd64 machine too
[10:12] <MrFaber> thx and cu all
[10:21] <Tm_T> sucky, went to see doctor to find a way to stop eating painkillers... doctor ordered _more_ pills
[10:22] <Tm_T> I bet it's very normal that 21 year old person eat several drugs to be able to sleep and walk...

[10:22] <Tm_T> tea ->
[05:13] <seaLne> has kded/mountwatcher.desktop been in dapper at all?
[05:14] <Riddell> doesn't seem to be
[05:14] <seaLne> kio (KService*): WARNING: Invalid Service : kded/mountwatcher.desktop
[05:14] <seaLne> ^ an error i'm getting
[05:15] (Tm_T/#kubuntu-devel) AAAARGH!!2!#234
[05:15] (Tm_T/#kubuntu-devel) must buy some cd's to my sister...
[05:15] (Tm_T/#kubuntu-devel) had enough from that
[05:15] (Riddell/#kubuntu-devel) seaLne: when are you getting that?
[05:15] (seaLne/#kubuntu-devel) no sign of it in /usr/share/services/kded
[05:16] (Tm_T/#kubuntu-devel) you know, you can stand song one or three times a day... but 6 in one hour ;(
[05:17] <seaLne> Riddell: one of the errors i'm getting from katch, my ruby prog
[05:19] <seaLne> Riddell: my code runs fine on breezy 3.5.1 rdale checked it, 95% of the time it crashes on my dapper
[05:24] <Riddell> mountwatcher is the thing that watches /etc/fstab.  we use hal instead
[05:24] <Riddell> so I don't see why that should be a problem
[05:24] <Riddell> is there a backtrace from the crash?
[05:24] <seaLne> i'm not sure they are related just wanted to check it hadn't recently changed
[05:26] <seaLne> Riddell: www2.duffus.org/kubuntu/katch.txt
[05:27] <Riddell> hmm, knetworksocket
[05:27] <Riddell> wouldn't surprise me if that was avahi related
[05:28] <seaLne> that was one of my earlier thoughts but it makes no difference with avahi-daemon running or not
[05:31] <seaLne> if i disable garbage collection it dosen't crash and if i enable debugging it dosen't either
[05:31] <seaLne> its very strange
[05:32] <Riddell> now that is strange
[05:33] <Riddell> well, the garbage collection I can understand I guess
[05:33] <seaLne> yeah it could make sense
[05:37] <seaLne> but it dosen't really
[05:47] <Lure> I have to say I have noticed new Kubuntu look. ;-)
[05:48] <Tm_T> where?
[05:48] <Tm_T> why I miss all things like that
[05:48] <Lure> After today update of kubuntu-default-settings
[05:48] <Lure> Boot splash, login screen, background, window colors
[05:48] <Tm_T> hmm, my kubuntu still looks like this: http://www.tm-travolta.net/shots/current.png
[05:49] <Lure> I like new boot splash - old one was barely seen on my LCD, new is stronger and therefore better
[05:49] <seaLne> yeah thankfully those changes shouldn't affect anyone
[05:49] <Tm_T> seaLne: =)
[05:50] <seaLne> unlike spending hours sorting fonts
[05:50] <Tm_T> haha
[05:50] <Lure> But my login screen is completly strange...
[05:50] <Tm_T> I don't understand, pypanel just don't work here
[05:50] <Lure> Riddell: who is working on this and should we already report issues or is this still work in progress?
[05:50] <allee> hunger: ping ?
[05:51] <Riddell> Lure: kwwii is working on it
[05:51] <Riddell> Lure: what's the issue?
[05:51] <Tm_T> kwwii <3
[05:52] <kwwii> moin
[05:52] <kwwii> <3 ?
[05:52] <Tm_T> aaah!
[05:52] <Tm_T> you're here!
[05:52] <Lure> Login screen has HUGE fonts (they get out of dialog) and backround image (blue) does not cover whole screen
[05:52] <Lure> there is some trashy stuff on right side (like k3b window and old kubuntu logo)
[05:53] <Tm_T> kwwii: and just when I didn't look login/logout messages =)
[05:53] <Lure> I can make a photo...
[05:53] <Tm_T> oh well, more drugs and coffee ->
[05:53] <Riddell> Lure: what resolution is your monitor?
[05:54] <kwwii> are we talking about kdm?
[05:54] <Lure> 1920x1200
[05:54] <kwwii> ahaa
[05:54] <kwwii> the pic is only 1600x1200
[05:54] <Lure> kwwii: yes, kdm login screen
[05:54] <Riddell> ah yes, that will happen then
[05:54] <kwwii> it would be quite easy to make a bigger resolution bg for kdm
[05:54] <Riddell> yes, we should do that
[05:55] <Lure> I suppose font size is caused by the fact that kde-guidance script to fix DPI is executed only on login
[05:56] <Lure> I have similar issue on Breezy (but old dapper was OK)
[05:57] <Tm_T> bah, it's so strange, pypaneljust don't work here...
[05:57] <Lure> Riddell, allee: any opinion on latest (k)powersave packages?
[05:58] <Lure> They work for me, however I do not like that acpid rerouting that much (will impact ubuntu-desktop)
[05:58] <allee> Lure: had not time to test.  Familie need attention. Only this I noted is that fan was running permanently. And cpu freq was at max without reason :(
[05:58] <Riddell> Lure: I've not had time to read the thread one the mailing list :(
[05:59] <Lure> allee: fan is OK with me, CPU is on max if you are on power (at least by default)
[05:59] <seaLne> arg my eyes :) that is very bright usplash
[05:59] <Lure> Riddell: I can understand... 
[06:00] <allee> Lure: yeah, I set it to powersave.  with max cpufreq fan turn on ~ 15 min and never stops :(
[06:00] <kwwii> so while we are on kdm, does everyone agree that the highlight buttons need some work?
[06:01] <seaLne> is ksplash supposed to be transparent and off center now?
[06:01] <Lure> allee: interesting... what I noticed that in dynamic mode, we quickly switch to 1.6/2.1GHz
[06:01] <Lure> this probably explains why WinXP can get ~50% more time out my two batteries
[06:01] <allee> Lure: IMHO it makes not such sense to let CPU consume power for nothing when plugged in.  I always used dyn freq with all cpudaemong I used over the time ;)
[06:01] <Lure> (no scientific measurement, just looking at wall clock)
[06:01] <seaLne> kwwii: yeah way to blue
[06:02] <Lure> allee: I agree, this also reduces heat (hurts my left hand ;-)) and fan noise
[06:02] <seaLne> kwwii: they don't really fit in with the rest of the login
[06:03] <Lure> kwwii: what are "hightlight buttons"?
[06:03] <allee> Lure: yeah, I remember.  At my desk I use a external keyboard with the latop, so I forgot the heat factor below hands already 
[06:03] <Riddell> seaLne: it's not
[06:04] <Riddell> seaLne: what's your resolution(s)
[06:04] <seaLne> i'm assuming "menu" and ">"
[06:04] <seaLne> 1024
[06:04] <kwwii> Lure: the ones when you mouse over them
[06:04] <Riddell> seaLne: that's kdm
[06:04] <Riddell> seaLne: are you having problems with ksplash or kdm?
[06:05] <seaLne> ksplash
[06:06] <Riddell> seaLne: can I get a screenshot?
[06:06] <Riddell> ksplash --test
[06:06] <seaLne> hmm maybe it isn't off center but because its left justified it looks that way? 
[06:06] <seaLne> i was about to ask :)
[06:07] <Riddell> it should be centres
[06:07] <Riddell> it should be centred
[06:08] <Lure> Riddell: actually, icons are also moved left and up (out of dialog) on my system
[06:08] <Riddell> Lure: on what?
[06:08] <Riddell> ah, ksplash
[06:08] <Riddell> Lure: screenshot from you would be helpful too
[06:08] <Lure> yes, ksplash
[06:10] <seaLne> http://stuff.duffus.org/tmp/snapshot1.png http://stuff.duffus.org/tmp/snapshot2.png
[06:11] <Tm_T> hrrr, so "smooth"
[06:11] <Riddell> seaLne: that's 1280
[06:11] <Tm_T> I don't like
[06:11] <Tm_T> but...
[06:11] <Riddell> hmm, it's missing Dialog.png or something
[06:11] <seaLne> Riddell: err ok i mean its at 1280
[06:11] <seaLne> does that make a difference apart from making me look silly?
[06:12] <Riddell> seaLne: the difference is that I'm using 1024 so I know it works at that, and it breaking at other resolutions isn't too surprinsing since I had nothing else to test it on
[06:12] <Riddell> shouldn't be too hard to fix though
[06:13] <Lure> Riddell: http://www.imagehosting.us/index.php?action=show&ident=1236895
[06:14] <seaLne> should the bubble background be there for kdm?
[06:16] <seaLne> or is it ment to be slatey blue color?
[06:16] <Riddell> sabdfl preferred the stripy yellow/blue one for kdm
[06:16] <Riddell> but kdm and ksplash should have the same 
[06:16] <seaLne> yeah that was what i was going to say
[06:17] <seaLne> i couldn't decide if it was stripey or just the tft looking crap
[06:17] <seaLne> the stripey on kdm looks better imho than the bubbles
[06:17] <Lure> Riddell: why I still get old Moodin splash instead of bubble (like seaLne)
[06:18] <seaLne> Lure: did you manually change it?
[06:18] <Lure> Not this time - I installed fresh Flight4+updates yesterday
[06:18] <seaLne> (to clarify that i didn't to get it, just in case you had previously)
[06:18] <seaLne> it was this afternoons updates i think?
[06:19] <Riddell> yes, new artwork only compiled successfully this afternoon
[06:20] <Lure> interesting - test does old backround, while preview picture in SS->Desktop->Splash is with bright blue background...
[06:20] <Lure> but I suppose this is just preview picture...
[06:22] <Riddell> Lure: ah, maybe it's cached
[06:22] <Riddell> rm -r ~/.kde/share/apps/ksplash
[06:22] <Riddell> that cache is quite evil
[06:24] <Lure> Riddell: true, k-d-s should probably do this automatically
[06:25] <seaLne> i think my ruby problem might be something to do with kio_file
[06:25] <Lure> now I see more or less the same as seaLne - bubbles (streched) with icons of-center
[06:26] <seaLne> what changed recently in kdelibs?
[06:26] <Riddell> seaLne: nothing that I can think of except avahi, check the changelog though
[06:27] <robotgeek> vim-gnome is getting removed, strange
[06:29] <seaLne> yeah and it dsen't touch kio_file
[06:30] <Lure> Riddell, kwwii: photo of kdm login screen: http://www.imagehosting.us/index.php?action=show&ident=1236914
[06:30] <Lure> I like "Menu" button ;-)
[06:30] <Riddell> oh joy
[06:31] <Lure> Riddell: not that different than my Breezy install ;-)
[06:31] <Lure> This is cause by huge DPI (147) and too-big fonts
[06:32] <kwwii> and your not happy with that??? :-)
[06:32] <Lure> kwwii: I am, as I know that after login everything will look great, but not sure about newcomers... ;-)
[06:32] <kwwii> I think it says "boy, I have a big display"
[06:32] <kwwii> hehe, sure
[06:33] <kwwii> tell you what, send me the display for testing and I'll make sure it works :-)
[06:34] <Lure> kwwii: it is built-in in my company notebook, therefore I bit hard to do... ;-)
[06:37] <kwwii> actually, I simply make the picture big enough to fit resolutions that large
[06:37] <AgarFu> Hi all
[06:39] <AgarFu> Riddell: did you have time to look at my repo?
[06:39] <Riddell> AgarFu: not yet, I will do so by tomorrow though
[06:40] <AgarFu> oka
[06:41] <Riddell> AgarFu: I'm unsure about this re-writing idea though, it makes it harder to keep in sync with the gtk frontend
[06:42] <AgarFu> I know but ... give an oportunity to it
[06:43] <AgarFu> I'm shure when you look inside both and compare them you'll love our rewrite
[06:43] <AgarFu> absolutely shure
[06:50] <AgarFu> s/shure/sure/g
[06:51] <amu> Riddell: yep, logo is too light imho, well if i'm not online or i say nothing means not i'm far away :)
[06:52] <AgarFu> by!
[06:52] <AgarFu> uos
[06:52] <AgarFu> ups
[06:53] <AgarFu> bye
[06:54] <Lure> just got new k-d-s and kubuntu-artwork packages
[06:54] <Lure> what does this message means:
[06:54] <Lure> KDM theme customised or already enabled, not touching kdmrc ...
[07:08] <nlindblad> the "plain text password in log" was pretty scary
[07:51] <Tonio_> hi
[07:51] <Tonio_> who looked the new design ?
[07:51] <seaLne> Riddell: would you have any use for 17" CRTs?
[07:52] <Riddell> seaLne: not really
[07:53] <seaLne> thought i'd ask :)
[07:54] <Tonio_> Riddell: new ksplash doesn't work for me
[07:54] <Riddell> Tonio_: what's the problem?
[07:54] <Tonio_> Riddell: icons on the left
[07:54] <Riddell> seaLne: thanks
[07:54] <Tonio_> no white square
[07:54] <Riddell> Tonio_: yeah, known, I'll look at it in a bit
[07:55] <Tonio_> and sorry for saying this, but I *really* dislike the new color shemes
[07:55] <Riddell> tell it to sabdfl :)
[07:55] <Tonio_> too flashy, blue everywhere.....
[07:55] <Tonio_> Riddell: I will
[07:55] <Tonio_> Riddell: you know how much I love kubuntu
[07:56] <Tonio_> Riddell: but honnestly, this is too me the worst default design I have seen on a distro
[07:56] <seaLne> Tonio_: i think we are getting off lightly compared to gnome :)
[07:56] <Tonio_> ubuntu/gnme is really nice
[07:56] <Tonio_> I love it
[07:56] <seaLne> ah you like it
[07:57] <Tonio_> but now, from the kusplash, to the colorsheme, the new "kubuntu" image on the left of Kmenu
[07:57] <Tonio_> everything is ugly....
[07:57] <seaLne> the bright blue does seem to be proving the people that describe KDE as fisher price right
[07:57] <Tonio_> seaLne: compared to what I have in front of my eyes, yes, definitly
[07:58] <Tonio_> could be interesting to make a pool
[07:58] <Tm_T> AAARGH!
[07:59] <Tonio_> Tm_T: you too ????? ^^
[07:59] <Tm_T> wtf, I can't remove "search" from konqi?!
[07:59] <Tm_T> damn, I really hate toolbar settings of konqi
[08:00] <Tm_T> otherwise killer app but toolbar settings just simply suck
[08:00] <Tm_T> +s
[08:01] <Tm_T> come on, is there any way to remove it?
[08:01] <seaLne> it would be a shame if the first thing people (that knew how) did was undo kubuntu-default-settings
[08:01] <Tm_T> haha
[08:02] <Tm_T> and I'm supposed to know...
[08:02] <seaLne> but i know its easier to bitch than come up with a solution
[08:02] <Tonio_> Tm_T: what about the new design ?
[08:02] <Tm_T> Tonio_: I don't use search thing
[08:02] <Tm_T> just. don't.
[08:02] <jjesse> i personall don't like half of the changes, to be honest, simple things like tabs are now on the bottom, had to make changes to kate, etc
[08:02] <Tm_T> and I wan't it to go away
[08:03] <andred> Tm_T: you can
[08:03] <Tm_T> how?
[08:03] <andred> Tm_T: configure toolbars -> Search toolbar -> remove the entry on the left
[08:04] <Tm_T> ?
[08:04] <andred> gnaah, what part didn't you understand?
[08:04] <Tonio_> Tm_T: I was talking about the new design, not the new settings ;)
[08:04] <Tm_T> Tonio_: I haven't seen any new design yet
[08:05] <Tm_T> andred: I don't have any search toolbar
[08:05] <andred> huh? in the configure toolbars dialog, there's a dropdown list with the toolbars
[08:06] <andred> one of them is the searchbar
[08:06] <Riddell> it's actually in Configure Extensions
[08:06] <andred> Riddell: yeah, that works, too :)
[08:06] <Tm_T> Riddell: thanks <3
[08:07] <Tm_T> now there's 2 search thing extensions, only that new one was enabled
[08:08] <raphink-pbook> wazzis blue?
[08:09] <Tm_T> haha
[08:09] <raphink-pbook> it's horrible, honnestly
[08:09] <Tm_T> maybe I should try those defaults =)
[08:09] <raphink-pbook> the theme is far too dark
[08:10] <raphink-pbook> the wallpaper ... well I've already given my opinion on the wallpaper many times
[08:10] <raphink-pbook> the usplash is agressive and childish
[08:10] <raphink-pbook> the kdm login is even worse
[08:10] <raphink-pbook> never seen that
[08:11] <raphink-pbook> the Kmenu doesn't work properly
[08:11] <raphink-pbook> ksplash crashes when and doesn't have the same theme 
[08:13] <Tm_T> fuck I'm tired...
[08:15] <Tm_T> *mfffaaahhh* 
[08:16] <seaLne> heh
[08:22] <JRe> ok so I definitely prefer the previous usplash theme :)
[08:22] <JRe> the new kdm theme is fine
[08:23] <JRe> the ksplash is strange
[08:23] <JRe> I also have a bug with kcontrol / appearance / window decoration
[08:23] <JRe> since the installation of kwin-theme-crystal
[08:24] <JRe> how and yes, I also think that the color theme is too dark
[08:25] <Tm_T> hmm, have to create temp user so I can test that
[08:29] <raphink-pbook> JRe: a va tu restes poli toi
[08:30] <JRe> raphink-pbook: why?
[08:30] <JRe> (and hi BTW)
[08:31] <raphink-pbook> JRe: because I just think this whole look&feel is horrible
[08:31] <Tonio_> http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=36409
[08:32] <Tonio_> if you want to give your feedback there, to get a global opinion
[08:32] <JRe> :)
[08:32] <JRe> Tonio_: sure good idea
[08:35] <Tm_T> yay, that was... ugly
[08:35] <JRe> :)
[08:37] <JRe> after verification the ksplash seems to be buggy
[08:37] <Tm_T> yup
[08:37] <Tm_T> all those pics were left
[08:38] <Tm_T> about centered to one third of width
[08:38] <Tm_T> and my second session is using some weird settings, like all fonts are dejavu sans (size 9)
[08:38] <Tm_T> is that default?
[08:38] <Tm_T> what else...
[08:40] <seaLne> ah i never got the bubble background just plain bright blue
[08:40] <seaLne> that actually isn't as bad
[08:40] <raphink-pbook> lol
[08:40] <raphink-pbook> seaLne: did you vote on kde-look?
[08:40] <seaLne> not yet
[08:41] <jjesse> what if i like parts of it? :")
[08:42] <Tm_T> jjesse: you can't
[08:42] <seaLne> weird i didn't have the box round ksplash either
[08:42] <seaLne> http://stuff.duffus.org/tmp/snapshot2.png
[08:43] <Tonio_> seaLne: exactly same render for me
[08:43] <JRe> seaLne: same
[08:44] <seaLne> you got the box?
[08:44] <JRe> seaLne: no i got just like you
[08:45] <seaLne> ah right
[08:45] <seaLne> where did the k-l screenshot come from?
[08:47] <Tonio_> seaLne: another default is the usplash
[08:47] <Tonio_> the ratio is 16/9
[08:47] <Tonio_> which renders a deformed image on my classic screen
[08:47] <Tonio_> I suspect mark for working with a widescreen screen
[08:47] <Tonio_> seaLne: did you notice that also ?
[08:48] <seaLne> not really, the fonts were unreadable tho
[08:48] <Tonio_> seaLne: was the image in a normal ratio while booting ?
[08:49] <seaLne> hard to say
[08:49] <seaLne> sorry was a couple of hours ago
[08:50] <seaLne> on one of my dev machines at work, at home now so can't check
[08:51] <seaLne> until i can burn dvds on dapper i'll stick to breezy at home
[08:53] <raphink-pbook> I don't get it
[08:53] <raphink-pbook> we had a beautiful look&feel, working and all
[08:53] <raphink-pbook> just a few days ago
[08:55] <seaLne> i wasn't a big fan of the old background but at least it looked quite profesional and was a nice color
[08:55] <JRe> seaLne: yeah I agree
[08:55] <raphink-pbook> yes
[08:55] <raphink-pbook> totally agreed
[08:55] <Lure> I think new colors are just too "agressive"
[08:56] <raphink-pbook> please do vote on kde-look
[08:56] <Lure> I however like new boot splash as old one was barely noticable on my LCD
[08:56] <Tonio_> seaLne: agree too
[08:56] <Tonio_> the actual colors are VERY agressive
[08:56] <Tonio_> and look "fisher price"
[08:56] <raphink-pbook> Lure: what do you compare it with?
[08:57] <Tonio_> to me the old look was very nice
[08:57] <raphink-pbook> Lure: did you compare it with the original moodin kdm it was based on ?
[08:57] <raphink-pbook> that we had a few days ago
[08:57] <Tonio_> we had to change the background, and polish the ksplash a bit
[08:57] <raphink-pbook> and was great imo
[08:57] <Tonio_> but the blue used on the ksplash is really agressive
[08:57] <Lure> raphink-pbook: I am talking about  boot (usplash), not login splash (moodin)
[08:57] <raphink-pbook> Lure: ah ok
[08:57] <Tonio_> I just changed the contrast of my screen cause it was hard to look at the screen
[08:58] <raphink-pbook> Lure: well the old usplash was too dark, but this one looks fisherprice like
[08:58] <JRe> yeah I have the same impression
[08:58] <Lure> raphink-pbook: true, but at least people around notice that I am not boooting Windows ;-)
[08:59] <seaLne> the old usplash looke very grainy for me
[08:59] <Tm_T> strange...
[08:59] <Tonio_> seaLne: "grainy" ?? what does this mean ?
[08:59] <Tm_T> all fonts were crap in other session, might be settings though
[08:59] <Lure> seaLne: that was also true - like it was resized from something really small 
[08:59] <seaLne> bad gradient fill
[08:59] <Lure> I even thought that this was due to high-res display, but now I knwo it was not
[08:59] <seaLne> very low res looking
[09:00] <seaLne> even on something small like 15"
[09:01] <Lure> BTW, my login is extra ugly - photo: http://www.imagehosting.us/index.php?action=show&ident=1236914
[09:01] <Tonio_> I would like to see more time spent on debugging kdeprint or systemsettings or any other thing that spending time providing such a design....
[09:01] <Lure> this is due to too small background image
[09:01] <Lure> but fonts are really HUGE
[09:01] <Tonio_> sorry for this, but even if I have the biggest respect for mark, I can't say anything else....
[09:02] <Tonio_> I was shocked when rebooting.....
[09:03] <seaLne> maybe its a secret plan to get everyone to use gnome
[09:03] <raphink-pbook> same here
[09:03] <raphink-pbook> I have a lot of respect for his work and ideas
[09:03] <raphink-pbook> but he's not a graphic designer
[09:03] <JRe> yeah moreover the design now does not look unifued
[09:03] <Lure> seaLne: maybe, but they got strange orange too ;-)
[09:03] <JRe> unified
[09:03] <seaLne> Lure: interestingly tho they think the gnome stuff is/was too bright
[09:03] <Lure> JRe: true - now K icon really looks strange
[09:04] <Tonio_> well we hve a meeting in 2 days, it'll be the good moment to give our opinion
[09:04] <raphink-pbook> there are also two CCs with mark tomorrow
[09:04] <sebas> Tonio_: The problem is that the designers are usually not good at coding, so "better debug X than design Y" is often not an option.
[09:04] <Tonio_> sebas: mark is (according to what I know) a very good coder
[09:04] <Tonio_> no doubt on that
[09:05] <Tonio_> but certainly not a great designer....
[09:05] <sebas> Then the opposite applies :-)
[09:05] <sebas> Did Mark do it himself?
[09:05] <Tonio_> sebas: I think yes
[09:05] <Riddell> no
[09:05] <Tonio_> Riddell: ah ? sorry for the confusion then :)
[09:05] <Riddell> kwwii's the one to send contructive critisism to
[09:06] <sebas> kwwii rules, though.
[09:06] <kwwii> hehe
[09:06] <Tonio_> Riddell: we want to be constructive, that's why I suggest to discuss that in the meeting and addded screens on kde-look
[09:06] <kwwii> stop talking about me behind my back
[09:07] <Tonio_> just my personal feeling is very negative.... but what is important is the average point of view, not mine
[09:07] <seaLne> kwwii: ok we'll stick to stabbing you in the back
[09:07] <Lure> Tonio_: add it to agenda (first topic?)
[09:07] <kwwii> Tonio_: mark actually has a very good eye and knows what he wants and knows how to express it...much more so than many of the other people I have worked for
[09:07] <kwwii> seaLne: at least stick to one or the other ;-)
[09:08] <Tonio_> kwwii: don't take my comments as an insult, really...
[09:08] <Tonio_> kwwii: I just don't agree with the choices made
[09:08] <kwwii> Tonio_: don't worry, not in any way
[09:08] <kwwii> Tonio_: yeah, me either but you can't have everything, where would you put it?
[09:09] <Tonio_> kwwii: I just personnaly really disagree, but if the average likes it, that's fine, really
[09:09] <kwwii> Tonio_: the idea with the current artwork was to make it fit to KDE as it is now....future artwork will be different
[09:10] <Tm_T> heh
[09:10] <seaLne> isn't that slagging kde? :P
[09:10] <Tm_T> glad I won't use defaults ;(
[09:10] <Tonio_> kwwii: I don't have any problem with amarok specifically ;)
[09:10] <Tonio_> kwwii: I just don't like the kusplash, the kdm theme, the ksplash theme, the wallpaper and the color sheme........
[09:10] <kwwii> not at all, it is simply a case of trying to make the best out of what we have in the time given us
[09:11] <Tm_T> colors are.. yuch
[09:11] <Tonio_> kwwii: that's a bit to much for me, but I'll be more constructive tomorrow ;)
[09:11] <kwwii> making artwork that does not fit with the icons and style in kde would suck just as bad
[09:11] <Tm_T> kwwii: true
[09:11] <Lure> kwwii: can we just reduce some saturation - colors are really strong
[09:11] <Tm_T> but, just too hard blue
[09:11] <kwwii> and don't worry, the stuff is not 100% yet. what you see is the first versions
[09:11] <kwwii> yeah, well, kde is blue atm
[09:11] <Tm_T> kwwii: but not _strong_ blue
[09:12] <Tonio_> kwwii: kde is not designed to be "blue only"
[09:12] <Tm_T> =)
[09:12] <kwwii> believe me, I want to get away from blue too
[09:12] <Lure> kwwii: but comparfe background with K icon and you see the difference
[09:12] <Tonio_> suse makes a nice blue/green usage for example
[09:12] <seaLne> yeah it could be purple or any other bluey color
[09:12] <Tonio_> the old design was far from beeing perfect, but for sure less "agressive"
[09:12] <Tm_T> http://www.tm-travolta.net/shots/current.png <- is that evil because it's not burning-my-eyes-blue? ;)
[09:12] <kwwii> hehe, I made the suse artwork
[09:13] <kwwii> up until now, that is
[09:13] <Tm_T> kwwii: you're trying sabotage Kubuntu! ;-P
[09:13] <Tonio_> kwwii: I hope you'll have the same inspiration for us ;)
[09:13] <kwwii> yeah...exactly
[09:13] <Tm_T> gotcha! ;)
[09:13] <Tm_T> kwwii <3
[09:13] <kwwii> lol
[09:14] <kwwii> naturally, if anyone has a better idea, please post it :-)
[09:15] <Tonio_> kwwii: going back to the old design and make "light" improvements ? 
[09:15] <Tonio_> kwwii: and of course changing the wallpaper ;)
[09:15] <kwwii> guess that is out of the question
[09:15] <Lure> kwwii: just make blue a little less aggressive?
[09:15] <kwwii> ahhh, you mean the old kdm design
[09:15] <Tonio_> kwwii: I know ^^ but that would be my feeling ;)
[09:15] <kwwii> yeah, the blue could be turned down a bit
[09:16] <Tonio_> kwwii: and old color sheme
[09:16] <Tonio_> is was very nice (at least for me)
[09:16] <seaLne> the blue in that is good
[09:16] <kwwii> Tonio_: one explicit idea this time was to match the saturation of the crystal artwork already included in kde
[09:16] <kwwii> I will be working on this stuff tomorrow, so let's see how I can improve it
[09:17] <Tonio_> kwwii: the blue used in the crystal  icons is very far from this one
[09:17] <kwwii> and anyone else who wants to give it a poke is welcome to do so...the svgs are attainable
[09:17] <seaLne> but icons should standout so it wouldn't be bad to have everything else softer
[09:17] <Tonio_> kwwii: not as saturated, and not that dark
[09:17] <Tonio_> kwwii: or my eyes are really bas ;)
[09:17] <kwwii> Tonio_: I made quite a few of the crystal icons...there are several blues, I think you are talking about the blue-green one right?
[09:18] <Tonio_> kwwii: talking about the trash icon, at the kmenu icon etc....
[09:18] <kwwii> exactly
[09:18] <Tonio_> the konversation icon, the konqueror icon
[09:18] <Tonio_> the folders icons........
[09:18] <Tonio_> all of them a very light and clear compared to the color sheme used actually :)
[09:18] <kwwii> well, all of those icons use more than one blue, but I know what you mean
[09:19] <kwwii> the lighter colors in the desktop wallpaper I made fit it better in your eyes?
[09:19] <Tonio_> kwwii: by far
[09:19] <Tonio_> and the old color sheme was quite closed to this
[09:20] <kwwii> Tonio_: I actually made a version with that blue color, but it turned out too light...I will see what I can do when I work on it tomorrow
[09:20] <Tonio_> the actual color sheme look (to me) completly different
[09:20] <kwwii> yes, but the old color scheme did not have enough saturation to match it
[09:20] <Tonio_> kwwii: okay ;)
[09:20] <kwwii> and with the saturation things tend to be a bit too light
[09:20] <Tonio_> kwwii: maybe a good compromiss between both could be better
[09:20] <kwwii> but again, let's see how things change
[09:20] <kwwii> thanks for your input
[09:21] <kwwii> it was concise and clear and helpfull
[09:21] <Tonio_> kwwii: our goal is the same : having the best kde based distro
[09:21] <kwwii> this should be *the* reference distribution for KDE
[09:21] <Tonio_> kwwii: sorry for the first comments which were, I admit, a bit agressive
[09:22] <kwwii> don't worry about it...I am used to working with developers
[09:22] <kwwii> :P 
[09:22] <Tonio_> kwwii: ;)
[09:39] <mornfall> Tm_T: the system monitor in your screeny is fairly nice, but i guess it doesn't embed into kicker? :)
[09:39] <Tm_T> embed to kicker?
[09:40] <mornfall> well, does it come in a form of applet?
[09:40] <Tm_T> no
[09:40] <Tm_T> totally separate program
[09:41] <Tm_T> has nothing to do with KDE, or any DE or whatever
[09:42] <mornfall> so how does it work :)
[09:42] <Tm_T> but, because it canshow almost anything text, and KDE apps use dcop... voila
[09:42] <Tm_T> try it yourself, apt-get install conky, and then run it
[09:42] <ubijtsa> hmm.. I guess this has been asked a million times.. kubuntu flight5 ?
[09:43] <Tm_T> you can have my config if you don't afraid to "investigate" a little bit, I have much shit in it
[09:59] <jpatrick> Riddell: around?
[10:04] <kmon> hi
[10:05] <kmon> the new artwork looks very nice, but I've found a bug with the kde menu artwork. It doesn't scale with a personalized menu: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/kubuntu-default-settings/+bug/34812
[10:05] <Ubugtu> malone bug 34812 in kubuntu-default-settings "the new artwork for kde menu doesn't stretch for personalized menus" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  
[10:05] <Tm_T> :)
[10:05] <Tm_T> Ubugtu <3
[10:06] <jpatrick> wrong way I think
[10:06] <Lure> kmon: same here, just that my colors are blue...
[10:07] <kmon> anyone knows when kubuntu flight5 will be out?
[10:07] <seaLne> kmon: very nice geers in the screenshot in that bug
[10:07] <kmon> seaLne: thanxs
[10:08] <kmon> It would be a nice addition to the default kubuntu artwork
[10:08] <kmon> I found it in kde-look if i remember correctly
[10:08] <Tm_T> kmon: that background...
[10:09] <jpatrick> ** please test amarok1.4-beta2 for Kubuntu Dapper x86 packages: http://tiber.tauware.de/~jpatrick/debs/amarok1.4-beta2/ - thanks
[10:09] <kmon> does anyone else have 2 google bars in konqueror's web browser interface?
[10:09] <Tm_T> kmon: haha =)
[10:10] <Tm_T> jpatrick: ok
[10:10] <kmon> Tm_T: ?
[10:10] <Tm_T> jpatrick: what you need to test in there
[10:10] <Lure> jpatrick: will amarok 1.4 get into Dapper?
[10:10] <jpatrick> Tm_T: the .debs
[10:10] <Tm_T> kmon: I want it
[10:10] <Tm_T> jpatrick: yes,but, install it and thats it or...
[10:10] <jpatrick> Tm_T: try it out
[10:10] <Tm_T> kmon: even better, sources
[10:11] <jpatrick> Lure: not sure I have to poke Riddell 
[10:11] <kmon> Tm_T: http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=31556
[10:12] <jpatrick> Tm_T: check if gst0.10 is working
[10:12] <Tm_T> jpatrick: I will, I use gst0.10 in my svn amaroK
[10:12] <Tm_T> so to me that beta is already old ;(
[10:12] <jpatrick> :P
[10:13] <jpatrick> just see if gst0.10 works so we can at least try to get it into Dapper
[10:13] <kmon> does anyone else have 2 google bars in konqueror's web browser interface?
[10:14] <Tm_T> kmon: yeah I would have if I had enabled the first one
[10:14] <jjesse> i thought Riddell mentioned something about that, one is going to be local search and one is web search/
[10:14] <Lure> kmon: not anymore - latest update fixed this
[10:14] <Tm_T> jpatrick: also gstreamer package from there?
[10:15] <jpatrick> yes.......
[10:15] <Tm_T> ok
[10:15] <Lure> jjesse: true, you get G search in Web profile and quick search in File Mgmr profile
[10:15] <jjesse> is that what kmon was talking about?
[10:16] <Lure> I do not think so: before today's update, there were two search bars (google and quick search)
[10:16] <Lure> I think tvo was working on fix for that
[10:17] <Tm_T> jpatrick: http://kubuntu.pastebin.com/600438
[10:17] <Tm_T> so, err, how I'm supposed to install it
[10:18] <jpatrick> install libqt0-ruby1.8 ?
[10:18] <kmon> I'm having 2 google search bars in the web interface the konqueror, in the file manager everything is fine
[10:18] <Tm_T> ach
[10:19] <jpatrick> dpkg -i *.deb
[10:19] <Tm_T> jpatrick: why I need that ruby thing
[10:19] <jpatrick> scripts
[10:19] <Tm_T> hmm
[10:19] <jpatrick> don't blame me
[10:19] <jpatrick> poke markey
[10:19] <kmon> this happened after the lastest kubuntu-default-settings package. Before it was 2 search bars in konqueror's file manager, 1 google bar in web interface
[10:19] <jpatrick> ;)
[10:19] <tvo> Lure: yes, and Riddell uploaded new packages with my debdiffs applied
[10:20] <Tm_T> jpatrick: strange, never seen any script in ruby
[10:20] <jpatrick> Tm_T: odd
[10:20] <Tm_T> maybe it's one or two new scripts I never use
[10:20] <Tm_T> ;)
[10:20] <jpatrick> lyric one appartently
[10:20] <kmon> Tm_T: it's the lyrics plugin AFAIK
[10:20] <jpatrick> told you
[10:20] <Tm_T> well, I tried both lyric scripts today, and they worked just fine
[10:21] <Tm_T> so...
[10:21] <Tm_T> ;(
[10:21] <jpatrick> :P
[10:22] <jpatrick> before it used to recommend the package
[10:22] <tvo> kmon: change it in 'extension settings' in konqueror
[10:22] <tvo> by default only googlebar is shown
[10:22] <tvo> but if searchbar turned on was saved to your local config file, it will be shown too
[10:22] <kmon> thanks tvo
[10:23] <jpatrick> Tm_T: working?
[10:23] <kmon> do we have usplash-down?
[10:24] <Tm_T> jpatrick: yup
[10:24] <jpatrick> woo!
[10:24] <Tm_T> jpatrick: but, so old player ;(
[10:24] <jpatrick> Tm_T: I'll grab a nighty tomorrow
[10:24] <Tm_T> haha
[10:24] <Tm_T> jpatrick: but it's old laready in the morning
[10:25] <jpatrick> laready?
[10:25] <Tm_T> you see, I check svn about 20 times a day
[10:25] <Tm_T> already
[10:25] <jpatrick> pff
[10:25] <jpatrick> must be too much ADSL
[10:25] <Tm_T> nah
[10:26] <Tm_T> jpatrick: sorry, no stress test from me ;(
[10:27] <jpatrick> :P
[10:28] <Tm_T> I'm already compiling newest from svn, so I can switch back soon =)
[10:34] <jpatrick> I'm off for tonight
[10:35] <jpatrick> gotta get rid of this headache....
[10:35] <Tm_T> I'm going to lay down, can't sleep but had enouch sitting ->
[10:37] <Tonio_> exclu
[10:40] <Tm_T> kmon: yay!
[10:40] <kmon> Tm_T: the wallpapers?
[10:44] <Tm_T> yes
[10:44] <Tm_T> thanks
[10:44] <Tm_T> but, oh well...
[10:46] <Tm_T> http://selene.tfkyle.dyndns.org/~kyle/Temp/Screenshot.png <- ubuntulooks in gentoo
[10:49] <kmon> Tm_T: try contacting the author
[10:50] <Tm_T> well, he's using apps I can't buy, prolly in their native formats...
[10:51] <Tm_T> but yeah, I might try to ask :)
[10:52] <kmon> what do people here think about the proposal for delay in dapper release schedule?
[10:53] <kmon> I think kubuntu will benefit from it, more time to polish and fix bugs
[10:54] <raphink-pbook> same here
[10:54] <raphink-pbook> as long as we don't end up with obsolete stuff all around
[10:54] <Riddell> and to write espresso
[10:55] <Riddell> and to get kde 3.5.2 in
[10:55] <raphink-pbook> we'll have to keep asking of UVFe 
[10:55] <raphink-pbook> if we want dapper to ship with up-to-date programs
[10:55] <raphink-pbook> and the longer the release time, the bigger the diff from Debian, too
[10:56] <jjesse> mornfall: did you see my email kubuntu-devel about a question writing the adept guide?
[10:56] <raphink-pbook> so we have to be sure we can deal with the diff we create in Dapper
[10:56] <jjesse> for docs it will help us get the desktop guide done
[10:57] <Lure> kmon: I am a bit concern that 6 week delay may also cause additional instability due to additional UVF exceptions...
[10:57] <mornfall> jjesse: hi
[10:57] <mornfall> jjesse: i have seen the question about kdesu, whichever that was
[10:57] <Lure> it is just too long to be able not to accept new stuff...
[10:57] <mornfall> jjesse: for non-kubunt, it'll ask root password
[10:57] <jjesse> mornfall: yeah i haven't used debian in a long time
[10:57] <mornfall> kubuntu*
[10:58] <kmon> yes... maybe
[10:58] <Lure> (even though I would like kpowersave to replace klaptop ;-))
[10:58] <jjesse> mornfall: ok, im working on getting a virtual machine up of debian to write it out of
[10:58] <kmon> Lure: me too
[10:58] <mornfall> jjesse: well, adept in debian is currently broken
[10:59] <mornfall> jjesse: the differences are minimal anyway, so probably just don't bother
[10:59] <Lure> kmon: did you try packages mbiebl released for Dapper
[10:59] <mornfall> jjesse: at some point, i'll go through the guide anyway so i can fix this myself
[10:59] <Tonio_> kmon: I think it is a good news
[10:59] <kmon> Lure: no. Don't know where to get them...
[11:00] <Tonio_> because if we want 3.5.2 in it, we will not have a lot of time to test and debug eventually
[11:00] <Tonio_> so maybe later = better applies fine here :)
[11:00] <jjesse> mornfall: ok i'll try to hack away at it tonight, it is hopelessly out of date
[11:00] <Lure> kmon: see this thread https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/kubuntu-devel/2006-March/000910.html
[11:00] <kmon> Lure: ok, thanks!
[11:01] <Lure> kmon: do you have ubuntu-desktop (GNOME) on your system? 
[11:02] <kmon> Lure: no. I'm a kde-addict!
[11:02] <Lure> kmon: OK, fine - powersave packages reroutes acpi-support scripts in order to reduce conflicts
[11:03] <Lathiat> Riddell: delibs doesnt depend on libavahi-client3,w hich causes issues
[11:03] <Lure> kmon: and please report to kubuntu-devel ML how it went
[11:03] <Lathiat> Riddell: i was trying to figure out why last night
[11:03] <Lathiat> Riddell: shlibs doesnt seem to pick i tup
[11:03] <kmon> Lure: Ok, I'll try to test them this week.
[11:03] <Lathiat> Riddell: i was just wondering if it was built when avahi was broken with libavahi-cor emissing, but im having isues with gcc crashign atm so oculdnt test a rebuild
[11:18] <Lure> Lathiat: are you talking about bug 34440 (and related bugs)
[11:18] <Ubugtu> malone bug 34440 in kdelibs4c2a "ksysguard does not start in dapper" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/34440
[11:27] <Lathiat> probably related
[11:28] <Lathiat> ywp
[11:28] <Lathiat> yep
[12:01] <kmon> buenas noches