[03:46] <benjamindaines>  Hello, I'm having some trouble getting my Mac to connect to an SMB share on my ubuntu box.  I type in the IP address and it brings up the window to type in the Workgroup, Name, and PassWord (I enter in my username and password and click OK) then I gives me an error saying that the user name or password is incorrect.  I have tried many times so I know it's not me typeing badly.  Any ideas?  --Much Thanks
[03:47] <benjamindaines> Here are the steps I have taken in setting up the SMB share:
[03:47] <benjamindaines> First I right click the folder and select share folder, then the window comes up and I select SMB, in the name feild I type "Linux", I leave the comment feild blank and leave the read only box and the allow browsing folder unchecked, then I click "Generate windows sharing settings", for host / description I leave what comes up and type Linx into the Doman / Workgroup blank, I leave it as do not use WINS server and 
[03:47] <benjamindaines> click out of both windows
[04:21] <iGotNoTime> Hi guys :)
[04:21] <iGotNoTime> I fear I will be coming back to you very soon :)
[04:21] <iGotNoTime> I forgot how bad XP during my week with you
[04:23] <dswillia> evening all
[04:28] <iGotNoTime> hello dswillia
[04:28] <iGotNoTime> dswillia are you new here?
[04:29] <iGotNoTime> I am :)
[04:38] <dswillia> i am too
[04:47] <iGotNoTime> Is Edubuntu slower in development than Ubuntu in any ways?
[04:56] <dswillia> i couldnt tell you, just found this tonight
[04:58] <iGotNoTime> I have had it on for a week and it is sexy
[04:58] <iGotNoTime> but I have only used Xandros as comparison
[05:08] <dswillia> are you using the ltsp option?
[05:21] <iGotNoTime> negative
[05:21] <iGotNoTime> sorry for delay digging deep into google for answers
[05:22] <iGotNoTime> I am toying with the idea for my kids' computer though
[05:29] <dswillia> yeah i am downloading the live cd now, I have a 3 year old I would like to test it
[05:32] <iGotNoTime> yes very safe!
[05:32] <iGotNoTime> I have live cd for my kids and they use a USB drive for their personal files and bookmarks
[05:32] <iGotNoTime> works wonderfully
[05:33] <iGotNoTime> I just wish there was a linux for kids, preloaded with TONS of games and educational apps
[05:34] <iGotNoTime> no desktop, just a nice webpage like interface
[05:35] <iGotNoTime> Hell I would and I am certain that many others would be willing to even pay a donation rate for something that simple on a live disc. Then even single computer homes would have no fear in letting the kids play
[05:36] <iGotNoTime> it is sad that there is not much profit in the kids computing or we would certainly have many options along that route
[05:41] <dswillia> yeah that would be wonderful
[06:14] <iGotNoTime> morning high voltage :)
[06:17] <iGotNoTime> in Edubuntu is installing KDE as simple as the marking the package for installation via Synaptic?
[06:17] <iGotNoTime> or are there a bunch of libraries and compiling needed?
[06:18] <highvoltage> morning iGotNoTime 
[06:18] <highvoltage> yep, it's pretty easy.
[06:18] <highvoltage> no compiling needed.
[06:18] <iGotNoTime> wow
[06:18] <iGotNoTime> who is this Synaptic guy?
[06:19] <iGotNoTime> he is smart :)
[06:19] <highvoltage> he's the middle man between you, apt and dpkg
[06:19] <highvoltage> dpkg does most of the hard work. apt does a lot of the automation. Synaptic is your agent :)
[06:19] <iGotNoTime> I like him, almost too much
[06:20] <highvoltage> yeah, apt and dpkg are really nice guys too
[06:20] <iGotNoTime> doesn't he kind of spit in the face of the 'do it yourself' motto that linux has alway mainatined so well though?
[06:20] <highvoltage> it just takes a bit longer to get to know them.
[06:20] <highvoltage> i don't know if that's a real linux motto though, some people are just a bit extreme.
[06:21] <iGotNoTime> I mean it is as easy (maybe easier) than Microsoft now
[06:21] <highvoltage> DYI stuff tends to be hacky sometimes.
[06:21] <highvoltage> not that there's something wronge with hacky, but when you work on big production systems, a good, automated process is always better than when everyone does their own thing.
[06:21] <highvoltage> yes, it is easier than with installing software on windows.
[06:22] <iGotNoTime> technical question... I was very upset that my drive were unmounted and I did nothing, then I remembered that I did allow it to do an automatic update, could that have caused the drives to unmount?
[06:22] <highvoltage> MS is working on MSI to get it as good as APT, but it will never be the same.
[06:22] <iGotNoTime> APT is awesome, one of my favorite thing in Linux
[06:23] <highvoltage> mostly because of the licensing of most windows software
[06:23] <highvoltage> yep.
[06:23] <iGotNoTime> see, they have hindered themselves in so many ways it is unrepairable
[06:23] <iGotNoTime> all in the name of money
[06:23] <iGotNoTime> sealed their own fate in many ways
[06:23] <highvoltage> i think they can fix windows, but it wouldn't justify the cost.
[06:24] <iGotNoTime> I think it is funny to count all the distros in comparison
[06:24] <highvoltage> they've explained before that they wouldn't add a feature or fix a bug unless it will directly bring in money.
[06:24] <highvoltage> but now we're going off-topix
[06:24] <iGotNoTime> yes sorry :)
[06:24] <iGotNoTime> are gdesklets nearly dead?
[06:25] <iGotNoTime> I have a couple but most will not work because I have read that the newer gdesklets no longer work with sensors
[06:25] <iGotNoTime> most of mine are sensor based, and giving errors upon load
[06:26] <iGotNoTime> with Edubuntu do you have a suggestion for a few widgets?
[06:26] <iGotNoTime> a suggestion for an engine I mean
[06:28] <highvoltage> i don't know, i use gdesklets now and again
[06:28] <iGotNoTime> and lastly the Wiki has 8658 pages but not one mention of the word 'donate', where can we donate to the fine project?
[06:28] <highvoltage> superkaramba is big on KDE, it seems
[06:29] <iGotNoTime> superkaramba is again another simple click in Synaptic you suppose?
[06:29] <highvoltage> yep :)
[06:29] <iGotNoTime> and donation?
[06:30] <highvoltage> here's one of my screenshots with gdesklets: http://jonathancarter.co.za/photies/screenshots/25MAR05
[06:30] <highvoltage> here's another: http://jonathancarter.co.za/photies/screenshots/12AUG05
[06:30] <iGotNoTime> sexy
[06:31] <iGotNoTime> All Gdesklets only?
[06:31] <highvoltage> yep
[06:31] <iGotNoTime> can they be configured to only show on one desktop?
[06:32] <highvoltage> i don't think so
[06:32] <highvoltage> not sure.
[06:32] <iGotNoTime> ok :)
[06:32] <highvoltage> at the moment my desktop is very clean: http://jonathancarter.co.za/photies/screenshots/gartublu
[06:33] <iGotNoTime> Yes I prefer mine clean like that usually, I am really just looking for a single widget LOL
[06:33] <iGotNoTime> sounds kinda dumb I know
[06:34] <highvoltage> nothing wrong with toying around, i think
[10:38] <pips1> ogra, ping!
[10:38] <pips1> highvoltage, hi
[10:38] <ogra> pips1, pong
[10:38] <pips1> hey, ogra :-)
[10:38] <pips1> I downloaded flight5 and want to test it
[10:38] <ogra> cool :)
[10:39] <pips1> however, last time i tried with flight4 I failed miserably, so I was hoping I could run some questions by you, as I go along
[10:39] <ogra> sure
[10:39] <highvoltage> hi pips1 
[10:39] <ogra> do you want to test the workstation again ? it should be relatively flawless
[10:40] <pips1> first, let me tell you what went wrong: I don't have internet connection, and the keymap is 'us' insted of swiss-german...
[10:40] <pips1> no, I want to test a server setup
[10:40] <pips1> I have two nics
[10:40] <pips1> the mainboard nic, and an older pci nic
[10:40] <pips1> I'm at home, with a adsl hardware router... 
[10:41] <pips1> I think I did some mistakes during setup... ie. i didn't enter the right values for gateway, proxy and whatnot
[10:42] <ogra> you dont need two nics to test the server :)
[10:42] <ogra> we only configure one during install anyway :)
[10:42] <pips1> first question: what nic should I use for the internet connection, the slower 100 or the faster Gigabit-nic?
[10:42] <pips1> oh
[10:43] <ogra> there is no german langpack on the CD currently ... you either need network or install the langpacks with the language selector afterwards
[10:43] <ogra> (which also requires network)
[10:43] <pips1> I see, so this affects the keyboard map, too, then
[10:43] <ogra> we're out of space on the CD
[10:43] <pips1> ic
[10:43] <ogra> did you select it in the installer ? 
[10:43] <pips1> so basically, if I manage to get network, I'll be fine
[10:44] <ogra> you should have the right map during install and in X afterwards
[10:44] <ogra> yep
[10:44] <pips1> I decided to test the new options on the very first screen, ie F5 keymap...
[10:45] <ogra> yep
[10:45] <pips1> since that feature is new, i decided to test it :-)
[10:45] <ogra> it should give you the right keymap in the installer
[10:46] <pips1> I don't remember if it was the right keymap during installer, since i didn't use any umlauts, etc. but the keymap is definitely wrong on the desktop...
[10:46] <pips1> well and in the console
[10:47] <pips1> I had problems with the keymap during the breezy beta testing too, filed a bug report, did lots of interactive debugging with a gnome guy (svu) and finally a fix went in, before the breezy release :-)
[10:47] <pips1> but now, I get the same prob again, even worse... I can't even switch kaymap layout with the gnome panel selector anymore :-/
[10:48] <pips1> what is that gnome settings utility called again?
[10:48] <ogra> you need to use the language selector 
[10:48] <ogra> and install the missing langpack
[10:48] <pips1> oh
[10:49] <pips1> ok
[10:49] <pips1> ic
[10:49] <pips1> ok, let me try a new install with flight5 and see that I get the internet network access working
[10:49] <ogra> language-support-gnome-de or something like that has the keymaps
[10:50] <pips1> ah
[10:51] <pips1> ok, should i take out the second nic, since it's not configured during install? question: how do I get internet access if I only have 1 nic?
[10:51] <ogra> set it to an ip from your lan
[10:51] <ogra> and use the right data ...
[10:52] <pips1> right... my adsl-router has built-in dhcp, so how do I set a right ip?
[10:53] <ogra> you know your ip range, dont you ? 
[10:53] <pips1> nope
[10:54] <highvoltage> :)
[10:54] <ogra> but youre online currently :) just look it up ... add +1 in the end and thats it :)
[10:54] <pips1> oh
[10:54] <pips1> ok
[10:55] <ogra> sorry, i'm a bit distracted by the dapper delay meeting currently running ...
[10:55] <pips1> ah, ok
[10:55] <pips1> I'm amazed how good you developers are at multi-tasking, anyway :-)
[10:56] <ogra> heh, scrollback is a big advantage you dont have in RL :)
[10:56] <pips1> hehe
[10:57] <highvoltage> ogra: i scroll back in real life. it's real annoying to everyone else though :)
[10:57] <ogra> heh
[10:57] <pips1> sorry, I still don't quite understand how I will be able to do a server setup with internet access if I only use one nic... one nic should connect to my router and the other should connect to a switch where I will plug the thin clients into, no?
[10:58] <ogra> yes
[10:58] <pips1> ok, so I will use both nics, then :-)
[10:59] <ogra> but since we assume a standalone server without internet access, only the first nic is set up
[10:59] <ogra> and it works fine without a second one, even as server :)
[10:59] <pips1> should I get some system info from the running flight4 setup, before I do the flight5 install, like getting some info on the nics or something?
[10:59] <ogra> additionally you cant run two dhcp servers in the same net ...
[10:59] <pips1> oh
[10:59] <ogra> (you can but thats very high level stuff)
[11:00] <pips1> the problem is, if I don't have internet access for the server, I won't be able to install all those language packs, etc
[11:01] <pips1> so how do I best proceed?
[11:02] <spacey> ogra: i'm looking for dspesd, it suppose to be part of esound but can't find it in any package
[11:02] <ogra> you give a fixed ip that matches your LAN settings and use the dsl modem ip as gateway ...
[11:02] <spacey> ogra: I need it (and probably need to patch esound as well) to have proper sound on the thinclients with wine applications.
[11:02] <ogra> spacey, esound-clients i think ... but beware it will crash your firefox
[11:02] <spacey> why is that?
[11:03] <ogra> because new firefox cant use LD_PRELOAD mechanisms anymore
[11:03] <spacey> ephipany won't have that problem i hope?
[11:03] <highvoltage> hi JaneW. very busy in #ubuntu-meeting?
[11:03] <spacey> thinking about switching away from firefox anyway on the terminal server. 
[11:04] <spacey> seems to it has some printing bug
[11:04] <spacey> when i print from gnome application it works fine
[11:04] <spacey> but some users print a job and it gets send to the printer and cups doesn't process any jobs anymore
[11:05] <spacey> and everytime they try to print a webpage
[11:05] <JaneW> highvoltage: yup, rather
[11:05] <JaneW> highvoltage: need something?
[11:05] <spacey> but still figuring that out for sure, have cups on debug now
[11:05] <pips1> ogra, how do i find out the dsl modem gateway ip?
[11:06] <highvoltage> JaneW: nothing urgent, can wait til later
[11:06] <JaneW> highvoltage: great, thanks
[11:06] <JaneW> highvoltage: 30 mins or so, or till meeting is over...
[11:07] <pips1> ogra, does the dsl modem just have *one* ip, that I can use as a gateway for my edubuntu server? (there is an ip mentioned in the dsl router handbook that is used to configure the routher via a web form)
[11:07] <ogra> yep, that should be the same ip
[11:07] <pips1> ok
[11:08] <pips1> if i do an ifconfig on my laptop I get 192.168.0.2 , so you say I should use e.g. 192.168.0.3 as my server ip?
[11:10] <pips1> ogra, (my laptop is getting it's ip from the router's dhcp, of course)
[11:11] <ogra> yep
[11:11] <ogra> and i bet 192.168.0.1 as gateway
[11:12] <pips1> in the handbook of the dsl routher it says t 192.168.1.1
[11:14] <ogra> look at your route settings of the laptop
[11:14] <ogra> (type route)
[11:14] <pips1> ah, thanks
[11:14] <pips1> indeed, there it reads 192.168.0.1
[11:15] <pips1> but then again, something seems wrong with that, ie. my internet access on the laptop seems very slow, as if it is re-routing every time I access a web page, or do any internet access, for that matter...
[11:16] <pips1> ogra, is there a possibility that the ubuntu network defaults aren't 100% ok for my router setup? how could I investigate to find out?
[11:17] <ogra> there are no "defaults" you set everything manually ...
[11:17] <juliux> ogra, http://derstandard.at/?url=/?id=2369370
[11:18] <juliux> ogra, if we want we get from igel thinclients to test if they runs with edubuntu
[11:18] <pips1> ogra, not in the plain *ubuntu* installation, though, which is what i use on the laptop
[11:18] <ogra> juliux, cool
[11:18] <juliux> ogra, but we have to give them back after 30 days
[11:18] <ogra> guys, i'm trying to follow a heavy traffic meeting in #ubuntu-meeting, please lets do it later
[11:18] <juliux> :-(
[11:18] <juliux> ok
[11:18] <pips1> ogra, ok
[11:19] <ogra> thanks 
[11:19] <ogra> it just goes wild there ... (200 ppl)
[11:19] <pips1> now 201 ppl ;-)
[11:21] <ogra> :)
[11:38] <pips1> ogra, what is TB that was mentioned?
[11:38] <juliux|cebit> technical board
[11:38] <ogra> tech board 
[11:38] <ogra> meeting at 20:00 UTC tonight
[11:40] <ogra> juliux|cebit, waer es moeglich den Xgl mist auszuraeumen ? dapper wird definitiv nicht Xgl unterstuetzen 
[11:41] <ogra> (wird aber ueberall geschrieben)
[11:41] <ogra> koennt ihr dass n bisschen propagieren ? 
[11:41] <juliux|cebit> machen wir
[11:41] <juliux|cebit> wir sagen das jedes mal das es eine option ist und nicht mehr
[11:41] <juliux|cebit> da hat heise scheie gebaut
[11:41] <ogra> yep
[11:41] <ogra> whoops, sorry for the german :)
[11:41] <juliux|cebit> heise hat es ist drin und es wird defaultmig installiert durch ein ander gebracht
[11:42] <spacey> its really cute :)
[11:42] <ogra> its not even ready for usage 
[11:42] <juliux|cebit> ogra, i know
[11:42] <ogra> and i doubt it will be before dapper+2
[11:42] <juliux|cebit> ogra, but heise has read that it is in universe and then they thinked that it is installed by default in ubuntu
[11:42] <ogra> yep, i saw te article
[11:43] <juliux|cebit> we only said heise that we show flight4 at the cebit 
[11:43] <juliux|cebit> not more
[11:43] <ogra> if suse really delivers with it, they'll get *baaad* press
[11:44] <juliux|cebit> i know that it isnt good that everybody think that xgl is in dapper
[11:44] <ogra> yup ... i just saw the "derstandard.at" article 
[11:44] <juliux|cebit> but we say everybody that he there is no support for xgl and that it isnt stable
[11:45] <juliux|cebit> the problem is that the everybody copied what heise write
[11:45] <juliux|cebit> and they didnt aske us
[11:45] <juliux|cebit> d
[11:46] <ogra> yep
[11:47] <pips1> ogra, something seems wrong with the default gateway ip on my laptop, ie. my internet access seems very slow, as if it is re-routing every time I access a web page, or do any internet access, for that matter...  is there a possibility that the (plain) *ubuntu* network defaults aren't 100% ok for my router setup? how could I investigate to find out? I really would like to get my network settings right, for both ubuntu laptop and edubuntu se
[11:47] <pips1> rver...
[11:47] <ogra> the plain ubuntu settings are what your routers dhcpd gives out ...
[11:47] <juliux|cebit> ogra, we have make a article for the press but we dont write that it xgl works by default
[11:48] <pips1> aha
[11:48] <juliux|cebit> ogra, we only said that you can installe it in dapper
[11:48] <ogra> juliux|cebit, write that xgl preview packages are to be found in the unsupported area but not expected to work or something
[11:49] <juliux|cebit> ogra, i will talk with our press people that he correct that
[11:49] <pips1> ogra, ok, I'll just go with those ip & gateway values and see how it goes :-)
[11:49] <ogra> :)
[11:51] <juliux|cebit> ogra, i will send you the text
[11:52] <juliux|cebit> ogra, i think you have the text already
[11:52] <ogra> i have 400 mails waiting ... let me get through it :)
[11:53] <juliux|cebit> ogra, i will send it now to you
[11:53] <ogra> thanks 
[11:55] <pips1> ogra, is there any specific hardware or network information you recommend I should get, before I do the flight5 installation?
[11:56] <pips1> what should I use for name server and proxy (I assume I don't have a proxy, anyway)?
[11:57] <ogra> dont use one then ....
[11:58] <ogra> grep nameserver /etc/resolv.conf 
[11:58] <ogra> ^^^ on your lappie
[11:58] <pips1> ah thanks! :-)
[11:59] <pips1> same as gateway (192.168.0.1)
[12:00] <ogra> :)
[12:00] <pips1> (I'll try the swiss-german keymap setting in F5 and watch out whether that works during install)
[12:01] <ogra> you can switch to console 2 and test it ;)
[12:01] <ogra> (during install)
[12:01] <pips1> ok, thanks for the tip
[12:01] <ogra> just make sure to switch off dhcp on the router if you want to test ltsp ...
[12:02] <ogra> else you'll get a mess
[12:02] <pips1> oh, darn, that might be a problem, since I don't seem to remember the router's passw just now... grumble...
[12:03] <pips1> so I'll need to give my laptop a static ip during my testing with the server, i take it...
[02:54] <pips1> ogra, my testing will have to wait till thurs, had to get a new passw from my isp :-| thanks for all the answers, though :-)
[02:55] <ogra> no problem ... come back on thu if you need more info :)
[03:14] <bobulator> hey hey
[03:15] <bobulator> anyone got any ideas why my soundblaster audigy isnt working? ive tried pretty much everything i can find on tinternet.
[03:15] <bobulator> it worked before we moved the computer into a new case...
[04:40] <alistair> hum... well i tried all the posts in edubuntu-devel. But it seems that dapper has a problem with Optiplex GX1 sound cards anyway.
[04:41] <alistair> but at least irc's been allowed through our firewall now
[04:46] <alistair> I'll try it wih a C-Media 8738 pci
[04:47] <ogra> pci should work fine ...
[04:48] <ogra> you could try with MODULE= and the matching module/parameters, but i suspect the card needs initialization through pnp as well
[05:07] <StR> hi all!
[05:07] <StR> edubuntu does not fit in a 2G hard drive, right?
[05:08] <StR> what are the requirements for edubuntu?
[05:08] <ogra> about 600MB more than ubuntu for the workstation, and bout 1G more for the default (ltsp server) install
[05:08] <ogra> (ubuntu takes ~2GB+)
[05:09] <alistair> yeh ha !! rythmbox and France Musique, not exactly my tast in music but its a thin client... and its making sweet music.
[05:10] <ogra> YAY
[05:10] <ogra> so the pci card worked then ? 
[05:10] <alistair> yup sure did
[05:11] <alistair> just about to install hydrogen to really test it out with a drum machine.
[05:11] <ogra> heh
[05:11] <alistair> see if the head can hear me from down the hall... he he
[05:11] <ogra> our rhythmbox maintainer is french btw ...
[05:12] <ogra> if you have suggestions for ogg based internat radio in other langs, please make them :)
[05:12] <ogra> *internet
[05:12] <alistair> no really...... I would have never have guessed. but then I'm just happy I have sound
[05:12] <alistair> thanks for your help.... and your development time
[05:13] <ogra> youre welcome :)
[05:13] <alistair> its really appreciated
[05:13] <ogra> your feedback as well :)
[05:13] <crimsun> err, you have the cs4236, correct?
[05:13] <ogra> crimsun, isa
[05:14] <alistair> yup... the headmaster can hear me ok. Oooops
[05:14] <crimsun> snd-cs4236 in lts.conf may have been needed (along with isapnp=0 and the host of other module params)
[05:14] <alistair> crimsun I have places a C-Media pci card in the thin client to make it work
[05:14] <crimsun> alistair: ok. I just read the edubuntu list a few minutes ago
[05:14] <ogra> crimsun, the MODULE= option is untested yet ...
[05:15] <ogra> so it might also be my fault it didnt work ... i'll do some testing before release (if i find an isa card in my big box)
[05:15] <alistair> I would be nice to get the onboard card to work but al least I have some knid of interim measure to go by
[05:16] <alistair> Next on the list is LDA and some better switches
[05:16] <alistair> for me at least
[05:17] <ogra> for LDA you need to refer to the ltsp.org wiki, we dont have support out of the box yet
[05:20] <alistair> one step a head with that. I remember asking a while back and was pointed here
[05:20] <alistair> http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/LtspFS
[05:21] <alistair> I wanted to help test the sound first as I knew this was a reported feature of dapper.
[05:22] <ogra> yep 
[05:22] <alistair> just out of curiosity ctrl+alt+f8 gives some messages
[05:22] <alistair> one moment and i'll jot the one down I'm thinking of
[05:22] <ogra> that are the bootmessages
[05:22] <ogra> they appear on tty8 
[05:25] <highvoltage> ogra: do you currently get *any* sleep? :)
[05:25] <ogra> sure ... between 5 and 5:30 am ususally :P
[05:26] <highvoltage> geez
[05:26] <ogra> if we delay, i'll have plenty of time to do very relaxed bug triage :)
[05:26] <highvoltage> yes.
[05:27] <highvoltage> i think it's natural for people to have a mixed feeling about the delay.
[05:27] <highvoltage> in one way, people are hungry for dapper, on the other hand, people also want a top-quality distribution.
[05:27] <ogra> yeah, i'm not really happy about it, since we are so well on schedule this time
[05:28] <highvoltage> i also don't like the break in pattern, ie, the .04, .10, 04, .10 pattern. but ah well, that's how things go.
[05:28] <highvoltage> the delay will mean at least that we'll be able to put in a better edubuntu into our tuxlabs, which i'm happy about, on the other hand.
[05:29] <highvoltage> it also gives me a better chance to test things.
[05:29] <ogra> yep
[05:29] <highvoltage> when we put Ubuntu into the tuxlabs, i had less than a day to test it.
[05:30] <highvoltage> it meant fixing a *lot* of things afterwards, especially considering that i only had about a week to automate the installation, including ltsp, and a bunch of other stuff.
[05:30] <ogra> if the freeze dates get postponed as well, that would give us a chance to have at least proper packages for LDA ... 
[05:30] <ogra> (even if not integrated, it would make everything easier)
[05:30] <highvoltage> edubuntu provides a chance to make the tuxlabs installations less hacky, and very smooth and clean, technically speaking.
[05:31] <highvoltage> what is LDA again?
[05:31] <ogra> local device access
[05:31] <highvoltage> OOH!
[05:31] <highvoltage> :)
[05:31] <ogra> ltspfs and ltspfsd are pretty outdated in the archive ... lbus isnt packaged at all
[05:31] <ogra> (and we wont use lbus in our implementation)
[05:32] <ogra> highvoltage, dont get me wrong you still have to set up the scripts yourself ...
[05:32] <highvoltage> would you use ltspfs in the ubuntu implementation?
[05:32] <highvoltage> well, just some more steps toward LDA would already be nice, even if it takes some manual work.
[05:33] <highvoltage> brb- dinner
[05:33] <ogra> i'm not sure about ltspfs yet 
[05:40] <alistair> got that message.. Its right after *loading hardware
[05:40] <alistair> udevd-event[1684]  run_program: '/lib/udev/iftab_helper' exited abnormaly
[05:40] <highvoltage> that exactly is ltspfs? i've only seen a reference to it for the first time on #ltsp the other day.
[05:40] <alistair> then it goes on to the same thing but 1686
[05:41] <alistair> never had a boot on the client without it.
[05:42] <ogra> alistair, it cant initialize the interface, because it up already due to netbooting ;)
[05:42] <ogra> its just cosmetic and you wont see it as a normal user due to usplash 
[05:42] <alistair> ah... nowt to worry about then?
[05:42] <ogra> nope :)
[05:44] <alistair> what about WARNING: /var/cache/man could not be found, WARNING: /etc/hotplug/.run could not be found, WARNING: /var/lib/xfree86 could not be found
[05:45] <alistair> other than that everthing else looks cool and dandy
[05:45] <highvoltage> man pages aren't installed in chroot :)
[05:45] <alistair> fairy snuf
[05:46] <ogra> also cosmetic and hidden by the bootsplash, but i'll check how to make it more quite 
[05:46] <highvoltage> alistair: i got rid of that warning by 'chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 ; mkdir /var/cache/man'
[05:46] <ogra> i could put that into ltsp-build-client :)
[05:47] <alistair> would there be any reason for ommiting it. Say clever first years *king up a system
[05:47] <alistair> by reading too man mans
[05:47] <highvoltage> ogra: :)
[05:47] <alistair> many mans
[05:47] <highvoltage> alistair: the ltsp chroot is kept as small as possible
[05:48] <ogra> you dont use the thin client chroot at all 
[05:48] <ogra> you only log in to the server ... 
[05:48] <highvoltage> alistair: under normal circumstances, you'd never need to read man pages in the chroot
[05:49] <alistair> my understanding of ltsp just when up.
[05:50] <alistair> again
[05:50] <alistair> ;)
[05:52] <alistair> home time... woo hoo, see yall when i get home..... (if the wife's not in a mood again :) )
[05:53] <ogra> heh
[05:53] <alistair> infact the boss has sound now so I think I'll take a night off.sound like a good idea?
[05:53] <ogra> sure :)
[05:54] <highvoltage> have a good evening, alistair 
[05:54] <highvoltage> alistair: btw, where do live?
[05:54] <alistair> Thanks for all your help orga, highvoltage.
[05:54] <alistair> Skendleby, Lincolnshire
[05:54] <alistair> UK
[05:55] <alistair> bloody cold at the moment, been snowing on and off all day
[05:55] <highvoltage> nice. good timezone :)
[05:55] <alistair> where you from?
[05:55] <highvoltage> south africa, autumn is creeping in here atm.
[05:57] <alistair> always fancied going on holiday to africa, just a bit scared of flying. You can't even get my wife within 5 miles of an airport!
[05:57] <alistair> so i think i'd have no chance
[05:58] <alistair> See ya..
[06:03] <highvoltage> i asked mdz at the edubuntu summit about nbd and local devices. at that stage he seemed open to the idea of using nbd, i quite like nbd too, i just can't think of good ways to keep it secure.
[06:04] <ogra> thats my idea too ... i wanted to look deeper int ndb ...
[06:05] <ogra> and into unionfs so you can transparently mount /dev/nbdX on top of /dev/cdrom or something ...
[06:16] <highvoltage> unionfs has so many applications, it's amazing.
[06:16] <ogra> yep
[06:17] <ogra> the cool thing is, if you can do it on this level, hal and g-v-m will just pick it up, show the icon on the desktop etc ... 
[06:17] <ogra> no extra patching required
[06:17] <highvoltage> wow, nice
[06:17] <ogra> the ltspfs variant requires a lot of changes
[06:17] <highvoltage> i also want to use unionfs in the chroot for diskless fat clients.
[06:17] <highvoltage> ltspfs looks a bit hacky, to be honest.
[06:18] <ogra> the ltfpfs and ltspfsd programs are fine ...
[06:18] <ogra> i dont like the double effort thats gone into lbus instead of enhancing dbus
[06:18] <ogra> we already have a bus system, there is no need for a second one 
[06:20] <highvoltage> i don't understand much about the bus system, something i'll have to do more reading on.
[06:20] <highvoltage> oh yes, on the fat clients, i want to use unionfs with a ramdisk and the ro / so that when files change on the thin client, they get changed in the unionfs ramdisk part.
[06:21] <highvoltage> i'm going to start writing ideas and put them together, with some help from other interested people we might have a diskless fat client set-up for dapper+1?
[06:22] <ogra> the server needs notification if y device is plugged in, thats what dbus is used for
[06:22] <ogra> s/y/a
[06:22] <highvoltage> here's my first stab at writing something: http://www.jonathancarter.co.za/index.py?diskless-fat (very rough still)
[06:22] <ere> I have tried LTSP in 6.04. The thin client boots, but when I try to log in the screen becomes black for a moment, the mouse cursor (x) appears, and I get GDM back. I also have tried to log on in the console and get a invalid user message. Any suggestons for how to debug the problem?
[06:22] <highvoltage> ah, ok.
[06:22] <ogra> ere, did you install from flight 4 ? 
[06:22] <ogra> or did you change the ip since you installed ? 
[06:22] <highvoltage> ere: run sudo ltsp-update-sshkeys from command line
[06:23] <ogra> if so, run: sudo ltsp-update-sshkeys 
[06:23] <ogra> :)
[06:23] <highvoltage> :)
[06:23] <ere> ogra: nope, it is flight 5  (regular ubuntu)
[06:23] <ogra> ah, not edubuntu then 
[06:23] <ere> highvoltage: well, I have tried that, and multiple times
[06:23] <ogra> ere, sshd is running ? 
[06:23] <highvoltage> ere: and the ip address question that ogra asked about?
[06:24] <ere> highvoltage: no, I have not changed it. the box have two network interfaces. One where the thin client is attached, and one connected to the rest of the network
[06:25] <ere> in /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/ssh/known_hosts the ip of both interfaces are stored
[06:25] <ogra> fine then 
[06:25] <ogra> so is your sshd running on the server ?
[06:25] <ere> and ssh is running as I manage the server over ssh :)
[06:25] <ogra> fine as well 
[06:26] <ogra> the user you try can log in via ssh ?
[06:26] <ogra> (in non ltsp)
[06:26] <ere> (unfortunately the box is a work and I'm home, I ask now because a firewall that blocks irc at work))
[06:26] <ere> I think so, I tried to log on with my regular username
[06:27] <ere> by the way, how is edubuntu different from ubuntu with respect to LTSP?
[06:27] <highvoltage> ere: is someone trying to log in on the otherside? or are you logging in over the internet?
[06:27] <ogra> the installer sets up and installs ltsp by default
[06:28] <ere> highvoltage: the setup is very simple. I have one thin client attached to one interface of the server. The other interface is attached to the same network segment as my workstation. I administer the ltsp server over a ssh connection. 
[06:28] <ere> thin client boots by IXP (works well)
[06:28] <ogra> IXP ?
[06:28] <ere> errr... PXE
[06:28] <ogra> you mean PXE =
[06:28] <ogra> ah :)
[06:29] <ere> too many acronyms
[06:29] <ogra> heh, yes
[06:29] <ogra> what you can do for debugging is to set a root pw in the client chroot ...
[06:29] <ogra> sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 passwd 
[06:30] <ogra> then log in on tty1 on the client and tail -f /var/log/ldm.log to see what happens during ldm login
[06:30] <ogra> also check the ~/.xsession-errors file of the user 
[06:30] <highvoltage> ogra: our help desk in tuxlabs often spend huge amounts of time checking with educators whether services are running on the server (such as sshd in our example right here now, or dhcpd)
[06:31] <highvoltage> ogra: so i've integrated this in our troubleshooter: http://www.jonathancarter.co.za/projects/xola/index.py?stats
[06:31] <ogra> highvoltage, LTSPManager will have a services overview
[06:31] <highvoltage> ogra: it uses nmap -p 67-67 localhost, for example, to get that
[06:31] <highvoltage> ogra: ok, great, that was what i was getting at :)
[06:31] <highvoltage> ogra: i was about to ask how we can do that without nmap to get it into there
[06:32] <ogra> just a grep through px will suffice
[06:32] <ogra> err ps
[06:32] <ere> ogra: thanks, I will try that tomorrow
[06:33] <highvoltage> ah, of course :)
[06:33] <highvoltage> ogra: are there people specifically testing LTSP on Ubuntu? do you think it's needed that i do an ubuntu flight 5 installation too and play with the ubuntu ltsp a bit too, to find some problems we might have there?
[06:34] <ogra> highvoltage, its identical :) 
[06:34] <ogra> but indeed you can test it 
[06:35] <highvoltage> will do.
[06:37] <highvoltage> geez! most of the packages are probably available locally, so it probably goes fast?
[06:38] <highvoltage> can't you just do an apt-get dist-upgrade in the chroot? or do you specifically check that it builds fine from scratch?
[06:38] <ogra> ltsp-build-client --mirror file:///cdrom ;)
[06:38] <ogra> (mount /cdrom before)
[06:39] <highvoltage> i hope the edubuntu/ubuntu community appreciates all the dedication you put into this, i certainly think you're doing fantastic work.
[06:39] <ere> I hope I manage to get LTSP working well. I will use it just with a couple of clients first to test if the users think it is a good enough solution. If, I will probably implement at least 20 LTSP clients (maybe edubunty) in one of the schools I'm responsible of
[06:39] <ogra> i'm testing if it builds from scratch after i made a change
[06:39] <ogra> highvoltage, thanks :)
[06:45] <iGotNoTime> has anyone had problem with .mpg's playing at double speed in here?
[06:46] <iGotNoTime> It does it with all media players I have
[06:48] <highvoltage> i haven't actually seen mpg's play in here.
[06:49] <iGotNoTime> I meant in Edubuntu :P
[06:49] <highvoltage> :P
[06:49] <iGotNoTime> I am serious every video is like something from the chipmunks
[06:49] <highvoltage> mine play fine in gxine and gmplayer
[06:49] <iGotNoTime> like it is a bad codec
[06:49] <iGotNoTime> even in VLC
[06:49] <iGotNoTime> I will try gxine
[06:50] <highvoltage> IGotNoIdea
[06:53] <iGotNoTime> even gxine :(
[06:53] <iGotNoTime> I will search for codecs :)
[07:01] <ogra> wow
[07:01] <ogra> that gets *full* this time
[07:02] <ogra> i wonder if we pass 300 ppl
[07:02] <highvoltage> ogra: wanna place a bet?
[07:02] <highvoltage> :)
[07:02] <ogra> nah ...
[07:02] <ogra> i usually loose :)
[07:02] <highvoltage> i think it might pass 300 people
[07:04] <ogra> hmm
[07:04] <ogra> 269
[07:05] <highvoltage> 279 :)
[07:08] <juliux> 286
[07:09] <juliux> hi littlepaul 
[07:09] <juliux> littlepaul, #ubuntu-meeting
[07:09] <iGotNoTime> what is -meeting?
[07:09] <iGotNoTime> is that a developers room?
[07:09] <juliux> no the meeting room
[07:09] <littlepaul> juliux, sure
[07:09] <ogra> its the community meeting channel
[07:09] <iGotNoTime> it is open?
[07:10] <iGotNoTime> as in open invitation?
[07:10] <crimsun> yes, just please don't blurt out questions/comments.
[07:10] <ogra> yep
[07:10] <iGotNoTime> crimsun, that would be very disrespectful :)
[07:10] <ogra> feel free to join 
[07:10] <iGotNoTime> ogra, thank you :)
[07:14] <juliux> 300 ;)
[07:14] <highvoltage> ogra: if edubuntu can be hard-freezed before the time, would it also have a 5 year support cycle?
[07:14] <ogra> i just was told that cant happen ...
[07:15] <ogra> even if the edubuntu parts are frozen in time, the ubuntu core might still change
[07:16] <ogra> 313 :)
[07:17] <Burgwork> ogra, are you saying Edubuntu and Kubuntu are not going to be supported for 3 years?
[07:18] <ogra> Burgwork, nope i would never say that :)
[07:19] <Burgwork> sorry, that is what I thought you said
[07:55] <iGotNoTime> well that room is way over my head, I like it in here even though you do try to get rid me LOL
[07:55] <ogra> we dont !! 
[07:55] <ogra> please stay !!
[07:55] <ogra> :)
[07:56] <iGotNoTime> Hey ogra highvoltage kindly ignored my question yesterday, he must not have thought I was serious....
[07:56] <iGotNoTime> where can we donate to the edubuntu project?
[07:57] <ogra> http://www.ubuntu.com/donations
[07:57] <ogra> we have no separation from ubuntu :)
[07:57] <iGotNoTime> why not?
[07:57] <iGotNoTime> I want only to fund Edubuntu
[07:57] <iGotNoTime>  :P
[07:57] <iGotNoTime> they are arrogant over there LOL
[07:57] <ogra> in large scale i develop edubuntu ...
[07:58] <ogra> i work for canonical and in ubuntu as well :)
[07:58] <iGotNoTime> is there a possible seperation down the road?
[07:58] <ogra> so in the end you fund edubuntu 
[08:26] <JaneW> iGotNoTime: if you want to fund edubuntu you could do it through canonical
[08:26] <JaneW> iGotNoTime: if you make it clear you want the money to be spent for edubuntu explicitly that wouldn;t be a problem 
[08:26] <ogra> yeah
[08:26] <JaneW> we could use the support, and it would be great to get our cookbook published!
[08:27] <iGotNoTime> excellent!
[08:27] <highvoltage> iGotNoTime: i can't speak for the entire Edubuntu, but I can be quite arrogant too
[08:28] <JaneW> highvoltage: I have seen no evidence of that!
[08:28] <iGotNoTime> I doubt it highvoltage I think you simply have not seen much of the logs the past few days in there
[08:28] <iGotNoTime> rough place
[08:28] <iGotNoTime> to put it mildly it is very cold and unwelcoming :)
[08:28] <iGotNoTime> much different in here :)
[08:29] <JaneW> iGotNoTime: we are in a sensitive phase, so things are tighter than usual as we figure it out - so there's less tolerance when protocol is not observed
[08:29] <iGotNoTime> you all should be proud of that :)
[08:29] <JaneW> and with 200+ ppl on #u-m a level of order and control need to be kept
[08:29] <ogra> -meeting is usually a nice warm place 
[08:29] <JaneW> iGotNoTime: but thanks for the compliments here :)
[08:29] <iGotNoTime> JaneW "we" as in the entire project or we meaning Ubuntu?
[08:30] <highvoltage> JaneW, iGotNoTime: I am so arrogant, in fact, that I arrogantly blog about how unarrogant we all are: http://jonathancarter.co.za/blog/
[08:30] <JaneW> ogra is a very accomodating person :)
[08:30] <ogra> just herding 300+ (JaneW !) ppl is not doable without hard restrictions :)
[08:30] <iGotNoTime> as a thousand thanks to Ogra even helping noob questions from me such as mounting a drive
[08:30] <highvoltage> JaneW: 300+ ppl :)
[08:30] <ogra> heh
[08:30] <JaneW> iGotNoTime: 'we' as in all wroking towards dapper, and that encompasses ubuntu/edubuntu and kubuntu
[08:31] <JaneW> highvoltage: wow really? I missed most of this one, but was there this am
[08:31] <ogra> iGotNoTime, its pure selfishness ;) every happy user saves my job ;)
[08:31] <iGotNoTime> ahh, JaneW and Dapper seems to be something all aspects are trying to come together in meeting correct?
[08:31] <highvoltage> this is way to exciting for me  to miss :)
[08:31] <JaneW> indeed
[08:32] <JaneW> although I won't miss yoga for ...well anything ;)
[08:32] <highvoltage> JaneW: are the rumours about you know, that thing, you know, true?
[08:32] <highvoltage> *blink* *blink*
[08:32] <JaneW> else I start wanting to throttle ppl ;)
[08:32] <JaneW> highvoltage: HUH?!
[08:32] <iGotNoTime> Well ogra you will be pleased to know that I talked my brother into using Edubuntu on his 3 pc's too :)
[08:32] <highvoltage> JaneW: :)
[08:32] <iGotNoTime> a few more baby steps :)
[08:32] <ogra> YAY
[08:32] <ogra> :)
[08:34] <JaneW> I want to watch *cough*nip/tuck*cough*
[08:34] <ogra> lol
[08:39] <tsurc_>  /msg nickserv link tsurc gemmakemp
[08:41] <iGotNoTime> ok my videos playing at doublespeed, is it possible that the libmpeg2 thing needs updated?
[08:41] <ogra> tsurc_, ouch
[08:41] <iGotNoTime> I grabbed my camera to try and get a video of it LOL
[08:41] <iGotNoTime> VLC says it is playing at 1.00X
[08:42] <highvoltage> if it's flight5, i can't imagine what it could be updated to :)
[08:42] <iGotNoTime> here is a link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zA1ILjYc3TA
[08:42] <tsurc_> bugger
[08:42] <iGotNoTime> sometimes it makes me laugh, and sometimes makes me angry LOL
[08:43] <tsurc_> wrong window... oh well new passwords all round then
[09:14] <Seveas> ogra, JaneW: After the TB meeting I'll put #ubuntu-meeting on +m to 'scare away' the lurkers who came for the dapper meetings
[09:14] <Seveas> I'll make sure it's open before the edubuntu meeting
[09:15] <ogra> thanks
[09:26] <trondm_gone> I tried a eubuntu install today, and got a terminal to boot (533MHz/256RAM). It was horribly slow. Any idea why? The same terminal runs at full speed on K12LTSP...
[09:31] <ogra> trondm_gone, what kind of graphics card does that box have ... ? 
[09:31] <ogra> (sorry i'm in a meeting) 
[09:31] <ogra> i suspect it somehow falls back to vesa
[10:39] <Seveas> ogra, are you really interested in a pastebin <--> IRC bot link?
[10:39] <ogra> i dont need it in here
[10:39] <ogra> but the #ltsp guys have one, comes in quite handy
[10:39] <Seveas> neither do I anywhere but you mentioned it and the code is halfway there already
[10:40] <Seveas> so ok, I won't do anything with it yet 
[10:40] <ogra> no i mentioned to mark that this is a feature LP hasnt yet :)
[10:40] <ogra> and i think it makes sense to haveone in a developemnt and collaboration platform like LP
[10:41] <ogra> additionally he cant complain about php then ;)
[10:42] <ogra> but we are seldom over 30 ppl here ... i dont mind pastes in a low traffic channel ....
[11:26] <batman> hello room
[11:26] <Burgwork> salut batman 
[11:27] <batman> any big bugs in the edubuntu 
[11:28] <Burgwork> there are no bugs in edubuntu ;)
[11:28] <batman> I install it on a box for my son
[11:28] <batman> right on 
[11:28] <Burgwork> nothing showstopping
[11:29] <Burgwork> but if you find something that you think would work better, feel free to email the edubutu list about it
[11:32] <batman> cool
[11:39] <spacey> now hope he doesn't do a server install :P
[11:40] <Burgwork> ya