/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2006/03/19/#kubuntu-devel.txt

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toma_hey allee12:16
alleehi toma!!12:16
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alleetoma: how was your weekend?12:17
tomagreat12:18
tomai went to the zoo on saterday12:18
tomait was cold, but got some nice pictures12:18
tomaand yours? still stressy?12:19
alleetoma: yeah.  but I hope that this week is the last one 12:20
mornfallgood night12:35
tomanight12:36
Luregood night12:37
tomanight12:37
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Riddellamarok beta 2 testing needed   deb http://kubuntu.org/packages/amarok-14beta2/ dapper main01:42
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robotgeekRiddell: great job on the bootup splash, it looks groovy02:33
robotgeekRiddell: is amarok available on ppc too??02:34
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Hobbseefreeflying: hey :)07:22
freeflyingHobbsee: hi07:22
Hobbseei got your mail07:22
seaLnehmm todays daily ppc live is 718Mb even now i have some 700Mb cdrws i don't think i could test that07:27
seaLneah its been too big for a few days07:27
seaLnebah i was wanting to check it07:28
freeflyingseaLne: sure you can 07:28
seaLnehow?07:28
robotgeek718 mb is burnable, i think07:30
seaLneweird there seem to be a lack of non ppc dailys07:30
freeflyingseaLne: k3b--> configure k3b -->writeing07:30
seaLneok i'll download and see if it fits when i get into work07:30
freeflyingseaLne: -->advance-->allow overburn07:31
seaLneta07:33
seaLnemaybe too early in the day for other builds?07:34
seaLneespresso isn't in the kubuntu dailys yet is it?07:37
freeflyingseaLne: it dose07:38
Hobbseedarn it!  i'm going to miss the meeting in a few hours!07:49
freeflyingHobbsee: it's 9:00 UTC , 2 hrs left 07:50
Hobbseefreeflying: yes, i leave in around half an hour, maybe a little more..07:50
=== Hobbsee makes a mental note to go and read the chatlogs
seaLneor wait 11 hours for the second one ;)07:52
Hobbseeyes, 4am07:52
Hobbseeoh well07:52
Hobbseeit's not like it's a kubuntu meeting07:52
seaLneyou are +10?07:53
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Hobbseehehe07:53
Hobbseei dunno...might be +1107:53
seaLne06:53 < Hobbsee> i dunno...might be +1107:54
Hobbseebut the 20UTC meetings always start at 7am for me (ouch, hehe!), so therefore 18UTC will be 5am07:54
seaLneah07:54
Hobbseeyeah, i have UTC on kclock07:54
=== _Sime could really use some extra time to debug...
Hobbseeenjoy the meeting everyone!08:37
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AgarFuhi10:14
seaLnemornfall: would it be possible in adept when it encounters an error to prompt and try to run apt-get -f install or dpkg-(thing which i can never remember as i only type it when it telle me to)10:18
seaLnei'm not sure how often when dapper is stable that there will be install problems but atm i'm getting them nearly each day, but they sort them selves easily enough10:19
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mornfallseaLne: dpkg --configure -a10:31
mornfallseaLne: well, possibly10:31
seaLnejust a thought10:32
seaLneanyone else tried recent ppc live? it booted without X then since typing startx it has stayed blank and not doing anything10:47
robotgeekseaLne: i'll try it tomorow10:47
seaLnei'll try yesterdays10:48
robotgeeki have slightly slow connection, ittakes a while to download10:48
seaLnethe new usplash actually looks not bad on it10:50
seaLneoriginal tibook10:52
robotgeekit looks very nice on my ibook10:52
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verwilstyoyo11:41
mornfalllala11:43
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Hobbseecrud!!!!!12:11
ubijtsaHobbsee: missed the meeting? :)12:19
Hobbseeubijtsa: well i did, and i knew that was going to happen - but i just got an email back to say that my assignment didnt compile on the computers at the uni...12:20
ubijtsaoops12:20
Hobbseeit compiles here!!!12:22
ubijtsaHobbsee: C, ADA, C++, Fortran?12:22
Hobbseeubijtsa: c++12:22
ubijtsahmm.. different compiler perhaps12:23
ubijtsagcc-4.0 vs gcc-3.312:23
ubijtsawell, g++ anyways12:24
Hobbseei dont know - the other file, which is almost a copy of the first, compiles fine both here and at the uni12:25
ubijtsawhat does diff -b tell you?12:27
Hobbseein regards to the file?  no idea12:32
Hobbseei'll just have to check if it compiles on the uni computers, and reupload, and ask them to re-auto-mark12:32
Hobbseemight have to bend their arms a bit :P12:32
Hobbseebut i'll be really peeved if it doesnt compile on their system for marking, if it compiles on the uni computers12:33
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miguevhi :)12:37
AgarFuhi12:38
Hobbseehey12:38
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=== Hobbsee attempts to get knetworkmanager from svn
Hobbseewe'll see how far i get...01:33
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AgarFuRiddell are you there?01:55
AgarFuRiddell is there any documentation about dbfilter?02:09
=== Hobbsee_ notices that there's a snapshot of knetworkmanager - wonder if it's any good...trying it out...
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freeflying-ibookHobbsee: where is the snapshot ?02:20
Hobbseefreeflying-ibook: it's on planetsuse02:20
Hobbseei couldnt get it to work - it died on makeinstall02:20
Hobbseeand i'm having trouble grabbing the cvs from kde.org02:20
=== freeflying-ibook seems I'd like have a try
Hobbseefreeflying-ibook: you need http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=125150&highlight=network+manager first, Riddell said02:24
Hobbseethen compile knetworkmanager from there02:24
freeflying-ibookHobbsee: thx02:25
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Hobbseeewww...it's gnome!02:33
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Hobbsee__freeflying-ibook: ping02:42
Hobbseehmm02:43
freeflying-ibookHobbsee: pong02:43
Hobbseefreeflying-ibook: on gnome at the moment - networkmanager works quite well on it02:43
Hobbseeif you figure out knetworkmanager, better still, can create a .tar.bz2 of a working source, then that'd be cool02:44
freeflying-ibookHobbsee: I prefer to knetworkmanager  :)02:45
Hobbseehuh?02:45
Hobbseei'd prefer knetworkmanager over networkmanager too02:45
Hobbseei might get lucky lol...02:45
freeflying-ibookHobbsee: will have a try later 02:46
Hobbseeok :)02:46
Hobbseetell me how it goes - via email or whatever02:46
Hobbseei wonder if nm-applet works in kde...02:46
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freeflying-ibookHobbsee: i have not wifi for test  :)02:48
Hobbseeah, i see02:48
Hobbseeeven if you could get it running, that'd be cool02:48
Riddelljr02:49
Hobbseehey Riddell!02:49
HobbseeRiddell: hang on...hypothetically, if networkmanager 0.6 makes it into dapper, can we get a separate knetworkmanager repo - just for testing?02:51
Riddellflight 5 is not being nice to me02:54
Riddellhmm, no hobbsee02:55
Riddellhi AgarFu 02:55
RiddellAgarFu: no documentation as far as I know, it's written by Kamion and is his way to get round needing to use debconf gtk/qt bindings02:55
Riddell"it's a nasty hack, but it works"02:55
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Riddellhi Hobbsee 02:57
RiddellHobbsee: I'm not sure what version of network manager knetworkmanager needs, but if that version does make it into dapper then we can look at having knetworkmanager in too02:58
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Riddellhi Hobbsee__ 02:59
Hobbsee__hey Riddell 03:00
Hobbseewell it sorta works...networkmanager...03:00
Riddell13:58 < Riddell> Hobbsee: I'm not sure what version of network manager knetworkmanager needs, but if that03:00
Hobbseecouldnt figure out knetworkmanager though03:00
Riddell                 version does make it into dapper then we can look at having knetworkmanager in too03:00
Hobbseeyep03:00
Hobbseewell that's what everyone's asking about, it seems03:01
Hobbseethanks for that - i timed out before getting that03:01
AgarFuRiddell I've done it03:03
RiddellAgarFu: done what?03:04
AgarFuI'm using it for language component and I already have the treeview loaded with the differente languages03:04
AgarFuI need to write some methods more (copy & paste) but I think I finally understood it03:05
AgarFuI've realized a little bit later that my component's name are colliding with the backend one's but that is easy to fix03:06
AgarFunow the language component is working and all the others are shown 03:07
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RiddellI had some strange issue where it wouldn't work with unicode strings03:08
Hobbseeanyway, i'm going to bed...night all...03:09
Hobbseeseeing as it's 1am here03:09
Riddellnight Hobbsee 03:10
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miguevRiddell: new notes about our kde-ui: https://wiki.ssl.ull.es/doku.php?id=ubuntu-espresso03:29
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miguevnot fully functional, but AgarFu seems to have working it out03:29
miguevbye03:29
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LureRiddell: what are the plans with Flight5? any way we can help (testing)?04:00
Lurepeople are already making noise on ML and forums...04:01
mornfallwhat's up with flight504:01
Luremornfall: was not released for Kubuntu (just Ubuntu and Edubuntu)04:01
mornfallwell, worse things happen04:01
Lurenot sure if the case was wait for espresso for Kubuntu or just overload of Riddell (which I can understand)04:02
RiddellLure: the candidates are up if you want to download and test04:07
Riddellfor some reason they didn't build last night so it's taking a while04:07
Riddelland now rsync doesn't want to work04:08
LureRiddell: is tjis just daily build? Because daily build (at least from 12.3.) hangs on my machine04:13
LureI suspect that new kernel is the issue (also broke hibernate)04:13
Lures/tjis/this/04:13
Lurebut I may try espresso on my desktop - just to get used to 04:13
Riddell20060314.1/ live and install is what I'm aiming for04:14
Riddellbut I haven't tested them yet, so it could well have a broken linux build for all I know04:14
RiddellLure: don't use espresso on a machine you care about!04:14
Riddellonly use it if you don't mind your hard disk being wiped04:14
LureRiddell: Ok, thanks for note - will maybe one older system from playing around...04:16
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mornfallRiddell: is it that bad (this close to release)?04:20
Riddellmornfall: it's still not had much testing, especially the KDE side04:21
mornfallouch04:23
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raphinkhi04:34
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raphinkRiddell: ping04:44
Riddellraphink: hi04:46
raphinkhi Riddell:)04:46
raphinkhow are you?04:46
Riddellsomewhat fed up with flight 5 in multiple ways04:46
Riddellbut otherwise lovely04:46
raphink:( argh04:46
raphinkok04:46
raphink:)04:46
raphinkwell i've got a major issue with kwin-crystal04:46
raphinkit looks very nice04:46
raphinkbut it uses 95% of my CPU04:47
raphinkso KDE takes 5 minutes to load04:47
raphinkand each window takes 1 minute to render when opened04:47
Riddellthat's quite strange04:47
RiddellI've not had any problems with it04:47
raphinkalthough I'm on a 1GHz G4 04:47
raphinkwell I've tested to be sre that was it04:47
raphinkI changed the window deco04:47
raphinkand it fixed it04:47
raphinkI've tracked the process with top when loading windows04:47
raphinkthat it's kwin taking up to 95% of the CPU04:48
Riddellis it only a problem when starting KDE?04:48
Riddellor all the time04:48
raphinkno04:48
raphinkall the time04:48
raphinkwhen opening a new window04:48
raphinka new box04:48
Riddellhmm04:48
raphinkwhatever has a title bar04:48
raphink[16:43]  <kwwii> I think it is doing too much blending of the root window04:49
raphinkkwwii's comment on this ;)04:49
Riddellwell we can see if other people have problems if flight 5 ever gets released04:49
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raphinkhehe04:51
raphinkis crystal in df 5 ?04:51
raphinkI mean as default04:51
Riddellshould be yes04:55
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uniqis that the crystal currently in dapper? 05:02
seaLneis crystal the current non kubuntu kde deafult?05:03
uniqi can confirm the problem on ppc with dapper kwin-crystal. kwin eats cpu.05:05
RiddellseaLne: no05:11
Riddellstrange, runs fine on my powerpc05:11
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raphinkhmmm06:00
raphinktransparency in konsole is broken06:00
Tm_Tit's not06:01
Tm_T4 Konsole with 10 tabs can't be wrong06:02
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uniq.----06:15
uniq~~~ll?e33~7dfgggggg1azzzzzzzzz|AZZ>;2~&~ ~~9?AEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAEAE06:17
uniqaeaeaeaeaeaeaeaeaeaeaeaeaeaeaeaeaeaeaeaeaeaeaeaeaeaeaeaeaeaeaeaeaeaeaeaeaeaeaeaeaeaeaeaeaeaeaeaeaeaeaeaeaeaeaeaeaeaeaeaeaeaeaeaeaeaeaeae                                                                                        '06:17
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nlindbladthanks for approving me06:27
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Tonio_hello all06:32
robotgeekhey Tonio_ 06:36
Tm_Tuniq: wtf06:42
robotgeekTm_T: i almost kicked him out, until i realised i was not an op here  :)06:43
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Tm_Trobotgeek: iirc I'm not either06:46
Tm_Tyup06:46
robotgeekTm_T: /msg nickserv info Tm_T 06:47
Tm_Tyup06:47
Tm_Tthis pain is killing me...06:48
Tm_Tsauna and more drugs, eyes are moving ->06:49
Tonio_kwwii: ping ?06:51
Tonio_kwwii: when you're available, I just noticed a little visibility issue with the new color sheme...06:51
raphinkTonio_: yop06:52
Tonio_raphink: hi ;)06:52
Tonio_raphink: did yo play with openoffice since yesterday ?06:52
raphinkanyone noticed kwin w/ crystal using all CPU ?06:52
Tonio_the new color sheme causes a little problem in the menus06:52
raphinkdidn't play with that06:52
Tonio_cause in the menus the text color doesn't change from black to white06:52
raphinki'm playing with powerpc trackpad settings06:52
Tonio_then when you use your mouse in them, you get black text on darkblue bg06:53
Tonio_which makes it quite unreadable06:53
raphinkI'd like to discuss the defualt settings for it since there's the option to activate the tap-click by default for it06:53
robotgeekraphink: is there a gui way or do we have to change in /etc/pbbuttonsd.conf06:54
Tonio_raphink: http://planetemu.net/temp/capture4.png06:54
Tonio_here is an example06:54
raphinkrobotgeek: man trackpad06:54
robotgeekraphink: awesome, better than /etc/pbb.. old habits die hard :)06:55
raphinkrobotgeek: use 'sudo trackpad tap' to activate tap-click for example06:55
raphinktrackpad drag06:55
raphinkand trackpad lock06:55
raphinkrespectively to allow dragging with the trackpad06:55
raphinkand locking the drag until you tap again06:56
raphinkso this is very useful06:56
raphinkand this app is in powerpc-utils, so installed by default on ppc06:56
raphinkit could be very nice to have a gui using it though06:56
LureTonio_: that bothers me too, but do you suggest to change text color to black when highlighted06:57
robotgeekraphink: beats changing it in a conf file :)06:57
raphinkrobotgeek: also found something great : nvsetvol06:57
LureI would like more to just make blue a bith lighter06:57
Tonio_Lure: I don't think that is possible06:57
Tonio_cause openoffice doesn't really use QT directly06:57
raphinkrobotgeek: sudo "nvsetvol 0" and you don't have this annoying sound when booting the mac :)06:57
Tonio_my point of view would be a color which is not too clear and too dark06:57
Tonio_unless there is a way to patch openoffice06:58
robotgeekraphink: i don't have that installed, i think. plus i don't reboot my ibook :)06:58
LureTonio_: but which color does OOo choose then?06:58
raphinkrobotgeek: you have it installed for sure as it's part of powerpc-utils which is installed by default on ppc I think06:58
raphinkiirc at least06:58
Tonio_Lure: OOo uses the standard qt color06:58
Tonio_Lure: but doesn't seem to manage the texte color changing in the menus06:58
jjesseif the 6 wweek delay occurs it will affect kuubntu correct?06:59
Tonio_and I don't think patching this is easy ;)06:59
raphinkwhat is man 8 ?06:59
raphinkhow does it differ from man 1 ?06:59
LureTonio_: another point to make those defaults (blue) more light ;-)06:59
raphinkah! time for second CC today 06:59
Tonio_Lure: note that we have the problem in all gtk apps too07:00
Tonio_;)07:00
Lureraphink: man 8 is admin command, 1 is regular commands07:00
Tonio_because of gtk_qt_engine07:00
Tonio_which means problem in firefox for example07:00
Tonio_which is widely used by kubuntu users07:00
raphinkLure: so /[s] bin/*  have .8 and /usr/* have .1 ?07:00
Lureraphink: something like that07:00
raphinkok thanks :)07:00
Lure(but not always the case)07:00
Lure;-)07:01
Lure5 is config files, 2 is sytem calls and 3 is library calls (AFAIR)07:01
raphinkok let's move to #ubuntu-meeting07:01
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Lureok07:01
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jjesseRiddell: how much would a delay benifit kubuntu, the same amount?07:08
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Riddelljjesse: more I'd say, since kde 3.5.2 release is just before and kde espresso needs work07:13
jjessethen i would vote for it, if it makes things better07:14
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Tm_Tany meetings I _must_ be this week?08:21
Tonio_Riddell: http://wlassistant.sourceforge.net/08:26
Tonio_testing if the bugs are gone08:26
Tonio_Riddell: any chance to get it in if that works ?08:26
jjesseanythings gotta be better then kwifimanger :(08:26
Tonio_allee: ready to test ? ;)08:30
LureTonio_: what about knetworkmanager - on delay meetings it was noted that some forum people have working version08:38
Lure0.6, which I think is needed for KDE frontend08:39
LureMark was also saying that they might consider if community provided workable version08:39
Tonio_Lure: hum, dunno08:41
Tonio_Lure: Riddell only can status on this...08:41
Tonio_Lure: I heard (but maybe I'm wrong) that knetworkmanager works only with cvs version on networkmanager08:42
Tonio_Riddell: can you confirm ?08:42
LureI plan to install forum stuff and try GNOME applet - if it work, I may look for knetworkmanager08:42
Tonio_Lure: sure !08:42
LureTonio_: I think CVS version was pre-0.6 at the time08:42
Lurebut Riddell can probably confirm08:42
Tonio_Lure: this is a major, major, major issue for kubuntu08:42
Tonio_especially considering that laptop is a great priority for ubuntu08:43
LureI can fix wpasupplicant for my needs (WPA), but I would like to have something better for others. ;-)08:43
Tonio_Lure: the best tool I've seen actually for kde is wlassistant, although it had 2 little, but really annoying bugs08:43
LureBut I have also powersave/kpowersave on my secret agenda...08:43
Tonio_Lure: that as already been discussed I think08:44
Tonio_the problem is that kpowerslave is duplicating the canonical stuff somehow08:44
LureTonio_: benefit of networkmanager is one base, two front-ends and this help (k)ubuntu08:44
Tonio_Lure: I must say I agreee that kpowersave is really, really better than klaptop08:45
LureThis is why poversave/kpowersave has issue (as base is different: acpi-support+powernowd vs. powersaved)08:45
Lurebut I doubt that g-p-m people will switch to powersaved soon (as main developer do not want to)08:45
Tonio_yes but as ubuntu is developped with the best gnome apps, it is a bit sad removing kde killer appps because of that.....08:45
LureThis is why we need to make powersaved to "work-with" ubuntu infrastructure08:45
RiddellTonio_: yes, needs a CVS network manager08:46
Tonio_kpowersave is actually in the top 3 appications in kde-apps08:46
Tonio_Riddell: okay, that confirms :)08:46
Tonio_Riddell: what about wlassistant if the new version works quite correctly ?08:46
LureRiddell: but what does "CVS version" mean - I though this was pre-0.6 (major rewrite)08:46
Lureand 0.6 is now released (with full WPA/WPA2 support)08:46
Tonio_Lure: is it ? didn't look at that........ interesting !08:47
RiddellTonio_: it's been a while since I've used it, I'd need to look at it again08:47
Lureforum people took 0.6 and polished it for ubuntu08:47
Tonio_Riddell: I'm testing wlassistant for bugs and let you know ;)08:48
Luremajor work was also on wpa_supplicant (which is used by 0,6) to respect /etc/network/interfaces08:48
Lure[19:32]  <siretart> sabdfl: re wpa: I have prepared with crimsun and kel modderman a new wpasupplicant package which integrates nicely in /etc/network/interfaces. I think it shouldn't be hard to integrate that to gnome-system-tools08:51
Tonio_Lure: even without wpa, a simply network tool is really needed :)08:54
Tonio_Riddell: isn't knetworkmanager okay with 0.6 new stable version ?08:54
=== Tonio_ suddenly dreams of a wireless working tool in kubuntu dapper :)
LureTonio_: agree and I think you should push wlassistant - do we need just UVF exception?08:55
RiddellTonio_: possibly, I don't know about network manager versioning08:56
Tonio_Riddell: okay08:56
Tonio_Lure: ready to investigate ?08:56
Riddellbut if it is, then great08:56
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Tonio_I'm installing ndiswrapper on my laptop, let's go !08:56
nlindbladWLAN management on Linux sucks in general08:57
Tonio_nlindblad: not with networkmanager08:57
nlindbladTonio_: really?08:57
Tonio_yes08:57
Tonio_networkmanager is GREAT08:57
LureTonio_: will look into this - first need to get through forum stuff to understand pros/cons and have working nm-applet on my system08:58
Tonio_Lure: okay, keep in touch ;)08:58
=== mbiebl [n=michael@dslb-084-057-229-185.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #kubuntu-devel
nlindbladTonio_: screenshots?08:59
nlindbladGNOME project??09:00
raphinkRiddell: are you coming to the TB ?09:02
Lurenlindblad: yes, GNOME project but with light-weigh front-end which was rewritten for KDE - knetworkmanager09:02
Riddellraphink: yep09:02
raphinkok :)09:02
Riddellraphink: anything I should look out for?09:02
raphinkI might need your support :)09:02
nlindbladLure: currently on Breezy, might be why I can't find it09:02
Riddellraphink: oh, you're going for main?09:02
raphinkyes09:03
Riddellgroovy09:03
nlindbladoh, something I probably should mention09:03
Lureraphink: good luck!09:03
raphinkthanks09:03
nlindbladwhen trying Dapper out a few weeks ago, all programs using glibc segfaulted all the time and eventually the whole system refused to function09:03
Lureraphink: we really need more KDE guys in core-dev and similar...09:04
raphinkLure: which is why I'm going09:04
nlindbladmight be nothing...09:05
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Riddellnlindblad: all?  or just gnome programmes?09:08
=== LeeJunFan [n=junfan@s64-186-37-84.skycon.net] has joined #kubuntu-devel
nlindbladRiddell: all programs09:10
freeflying-ibookRiddell: I need your support and recommend too 09:10
nlindbladRiddell: fresh Breezy install => Dapper09:10
Riddellnlindblad: sounds nasty, let me know if you have the same issues with flight 509:11
nlindbladRiddell: yeah09:11
nlindbladLure: not available for Breezy?09:12
Lurenlindblad: I don't think so - but if you are hanging on kubuntu-devel, you should run Dapper anyhow ;-)09:13
nlindbladhmm09:13
nlindbladreally want my laptop stable09:13
nlindbladbut workstation would be alright09:14
nlindbladsed -ie 's/breezy/dapper/g' /etc/apt/sources.list09:14
Riddellfreeflying-ibook: yep, I'm here :)09:14
Lurenlindblad: I understand - I am also on Breezy for my work time, but will switch with Flight509:14
freeflying-ibookRiddell: thx09:15
nlindbladupgrading now09:16
nlindbladLure: yeah09:16
nlindbladI want something stopping me from wasting the enourmus amount of time I sit in front of my computer09:20
nlindbladKubuntu development is a good candidate for that09:20
Tm_Theh09:23
Lureraphink: congrats!09:23
robotgeekRiddell: congrats!09:24
jjesseraphink: congrats :)09:24
Tm_T?09:24
=== Tm_T hides
raphinkw00t!!!!!!!!09:24
raphinkthanks :)09:24
robotgeekdamn, raphink congrats!09:25
raphink:D09:25
=== robotgeek tabcompleted wrong!
OculusAquilaeraphink: congrats09:25
=== raphink goes find some champaign :)
Tm_Traphink get laid?09:25
raphink:) :) :)09:25
Tm_T;--P09:25
Tm_Traphink: congrats09:26
raphinkty09:26
Tm_Tcong-rats..09:26
nlindbladsomething I miss in apt is the ability to process several operations at once09:26
Tm_Tnah09:26
nlindbladif you start a major dist-upgrade and need another package quickly you'd still have to either wait or interrupt09:27
nlindbladpretty clumsy09:27
Tm_Ttrue09:28
Tm_Tbut safe09:28
nlindbladyeah09:28
nlindbladI guess I'd complain if it was the other way around09:28
Tm_Tindeed09:28
Riddellraphink: you heard mjg59, he'll be expecting top kubuntu laptop support now you're in main :)09:28
raphinkhehe09:29
raphink:)09:29
raphinkand now that i bought my first laptop this morning :)09:29
nlindbladis it just my crappy laptop or isn't suspend2 working what well?09:29
nlindbladthat's a feature that would make my life alot easier09:29
Lureraphink: I also expect top laptop from you ;-)09:32
raphinkdon't expect my lap though :p09:32
raphinkjust the top09:32
Lureraphink: if you can push powersave in, that is more than enough ;-)09:33
raphinkLure: just got my first laptop today officially 09:33
Lurekpowersave will be easy then ;-)09:33
raphinkso I'm nto used to laptop stuff yet09:33
raphinkI'll be doing my best ;)09:33
mbieblI can only second that. If you need help or more information, ask lure or myself.09:33
Lurehi mbiebl09:34
raphink:)09:34
mbieblHi09:34
Lurembiebl: I was thinking if it would not be easier for inclusion if we do not reroute acpid09:35
Lurebut rather change apci-support upstream to respect powersaved properly (as it does for g-p-m)09:35
mbieblLure, filed a bug report for cpufrequtils, hopefully it gets rebuilt soon.09:35
mbieblLure, this solution is fine, too. 09:35
Lurembiebl: great - is this upstream (Debian) first or jsut Ubuntu?09:36
mbieblThe Debian package is already fixed, it's a Dapper issue09:36
LureI plan to start some discussion with laptop team just to get some buy-in before we start major push09:36
mbieblGood idea. Try to make a list, what they think is still missing and needs to be fixed or has to be done.09:37
Lureexactly - I just do not want that we get ther wih big suprise09:38
LureI am shooting to at least get support for kpowersave into universe (UVF exception)09:38
Lurethen we can discuss what is default for kubuntu-desktop09:39
Lure;-)09:39
mbieblBut wouldn't it have to be main to become default for kubuntu-desktop?09:39
LureRiddell, raphink: can kubuntu-desktop depend on something from universe?09:39
RiddellLure: no09:39
LureI suspect not...09:39
raphinkLure: no09:40
LureI am not sure how hard is to get universe -> main approval09:40
nlindbladI think I can follow the code of conduct09:40
Lurebut I do not want to get too excited - let's do step by step and do it right09:40
LureI will try to put up a wiki page with some info on that09:41
mbieblWhat are the steps that need to be taken to get kpowersave into main? Who do we have to convince ;-)09:42
Lurembiebl: I would suspect prerequisite is laptop-devel people - which means working nicely with GNOME first09:44
Lurethen probably many others to get formal approval...09:44
nlindbladI signed it09:47
nlindbladwhat's next?09:47
mbieblI'm coming from the Debian world, so I don't know the policies and procedures of (k)ubuntu.09:48
Riddellmbiebl: you need to convince me09:48
Riddellmbiebl: and I need mjg59 convinced since he does the power stuff in ubuntu09:48
Riddellmbiebl: I don't know enough about power stuff to understand all the issues, and I haven't had time to investigate09:50
mbieblRiddell, do you have an overview how powersaved+kpowersave work?09:50
Riddellmbiebl: not really, nor how the ubuntu power stuff works09:51
mbieblShould I write you an email or do you prefer to discuss it on IRC?09:52
Riddellfreeflying-ibook: keep doing fixes and testing and we'll try for MOTU again in a couple of months09:53
freeflying-ibookRiddell: thx, i will09:53
nlindbladwhat's next after signing?09:54
Riddellnlindblad: next after what?09:55
nlindbladRiddell: signing the code of conduct09:55
Riddellmbiebl: there is already an e-mail thread on the topic I'm yet to read09:56
Riddellmbiebl: if you camake your case here briefly then go ahead09:56
Riddellmbiebl: what's your relationship to kpowersave first?09:56
mbieblGood, I will write up a description of (k)powersave and make a comparison to klaptopdaemon and g-p-m and post it to the kubuntu-devel m-l.09:57
mbieblI'm the Debian maintainer of the powersaved/kpowersave packages.09:58
Lurembiebl: maybe better to wiki.ubuntu.com09:58
Lure(much easier to keep up-to-date than mail thread)09:58
Riddellmbiebl: yeah, wiki page might be good09:58
nlindbladI'd love to focus on security issues09:58
nlindbladhelp out in that way09:58
Lurembiebl: or I can do wiki based on your input09:58
mbieblThat's fine for me too.09:59
LureRiddell: KubuntuLaptop or KubuntuPowersave?10:00
RiddellLure: second is less generic10:00
LureRiddell: will do10:00
mbieblRiddell, and about my relationship to kpowersave: I'm also contributing upstream where possible. The project is very active and open.10:01
nlindbladis there a specific Ubuntu security team?10:02
LureRiddell: I would add that mbiebel actually pushed lot's of upstream changes 10:02
Riddellnlindblad: yes, he's called pitti10:02
Lurekpowersave was very SuSE before...10:02
nlindbladRiddell: do they need help?10:02
mbieblI talked to the (k)powersave devs and they were very interested in getting (k)powersave into Dapper. They even offered there help.10:02
LureI think we have support from upstream and debian maintainer10:03
Lurekey is GNOME cooperation, and here I can anticipate some issues 10:03
Riddellnlindblad: I suspect not, security fixes are difficult and canonical needs to make sure they are done properly, but you can certainly ask10:03
mbieblYes, it was SuSE only previously. But now moved to sf.net and we worked hard to make (k)powersave distribution agnostic.10:03
nlindbladRiddell: well, the plain text password really indicates things are not perfect10:04
Luredue to the fact that g-p-m and powersave strategies are slightly different10:04
Riddellnlindblad: how would you have stoped that happening?10:04
Lurebut nothing that we could overcome (becase we really have to, otherwise we are stuck with bad laptop support in Kubuntu)10:05
nlindbladRiddell: I'm not a security guru, but I'm just saying, if somone would play with security and really take things to it's edge10:05
nlindbladRiddell: someone would likely have found that10:05
nlindbladRiddell: not accusing anyone of being bad at what they do10:06
mbieblAs said, I will write up a short description of (k)powersave and its design goals and give a comparison to g-p-m with it's pros and cons. Then Jonathan can make a better decision. 10:07
Riddellmbiebl: I feel pretty bad that I haven't been able to give this much time so far, thank for poking me :)10:08
mbieblI guess you are pretty busy atm ;-)10:08
nlindbladgood night10:15
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=== Tonio_ [n=tonio@tonio.planetemu.net] has joined #kubuntu-devel
Tonio_okay, let's trying latest networkmanager :)10:46
Tonio_Lure: ping ?10:50
LureTonio_: pong10:50
Tonio_Lure: what are the changes done on the topic you talked about for kubuntu ?10:51
Tonio_I was simply trying to uupdate the actual source package10:51
Tonio_are there things you heard about ?10:51
Lurethere is effort on forums to make packages for 0.6, some already reporting success, other still having problems10:52
Lurehttp://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=13933410:52
Lurethen siretart is working on wpasupplicant update that has improved support for NM10:53
Lure[19:32]  <siretart> sabdfl: re wpa: I have prepared with crimsun and kel modderman a new wpasupplicant package which integrates nicely in /etc/network/interfaces. I think it shouldn't be hard to integrate that to gnome-system-tools10:53
=== verwilst [n=verwilst@dD5E0099B.access.telenet.be] has joined #kubuntu-devel
Lure(this was on meeting regarding dapper delay)10:54
LureI have seen reluctance from keybuk (maintainer of NM 0.5.1 for ubuntu) and Mark saying that he might support community provided stuff inclusion if it works10:56
LureTonio_: what do you mean with "actual source code"?10:56
Tonio_Lure: are there patches to provide or something ?10:56
Lurepatches are key issue for keybuk10:57
Lure0.5.1 has many patches for ubuntu integration, these are harder to port due to major changes in 0.610:57
Lure:(10:57
LureI would say with so much interest, the issue is only in working together (too many cooks issue)10:58
=== freeflying-ibook [n=freeflyi@61.190.65.37] has joined #kubuntu-devel
LureTonio_: I still like your wlassitant idea - but not sure if new packages are accepted in universe11:00
Tonio_Lure: well, because it is a major missing, there could maybe be an exception11:00
Tonio_we have time to test now11:00
LureI suppose it is easier to get in than new NM still (NM has many dependacies, like VPN...)11:00
LureTonio_: exactly11:00
Tonio_Riddell: if wlassistant or knetworkmanager are working *perfectly*, do you think an exceptionnal execption to feature freeze could be possible ?11:01
RiddellTonio_: knetworkmanager will follow network manager.  wlassistant could be possible11:01
LureTonio_: perfectly is hard with so bad foundation (differences between WiFi drivers)11:01
Tonio_Riddell: the problem is that knetworkmanager requires an update of networkmanager in main.........11:02
Lurethis is is why NM is in my opinion harder to polish11:02
RiddellTonio_: exactly, and that's not going to happen11:02
Tonio_Riddell: would canonical do that for kubuntu ? I'm not sure......11:02
Riddellno11:02
Riddellwell, keybuk wouldn't do it for kubuntu anyway11:02
Tonio_Riddell: okay, so let's focus on wlassistant11:02
LureTonio_: will you work on packages - I am more than willing to test11:03
Tonio_and.... (sorry for that last question), if wlassistant is really "perfect", is main integration possible ?11:03
LureBTW, I just droped knemo (again) - CPU load on batteries is just too high (5%)11:04
LureI hope wlassistant is better11:04
RiddellLure: really?11:04
Tonio_Lure:  ?11:04
LureYes, just searching for bug...11:05
Tonio_Lure: how do you get the cpu load ?11:05
Luretop11:06
Tonio_cause knemo isn't a binary but a kde service11:06
Tonio_I don't have knemo appareing in it11:06
Lureit is shown on kded11:06
Lureturn knemo off and you see difference.11:06
Tonio_that's what I thought, but do you think knemo is the responsible ?11:06
Tonio_Lure: testing11:06
Lurewhen my laptop is on 2.1GHz it is 2%, on 800Mhz is around 5%11:06
Lurebug 3298111:07
Ubugtumalone bug 32981 in knemo "kded eats CPU continuously due to KNemo" [Wishlist,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/3298111:07
Tonio_Lure: with my laptop (celeron D 1.5 ghz), it is arround 1.5%11:07
Lureinteresting...11:07
LureI need to ack for new laptop... ;-)11:08
Lures/ack/ask/11:08
alleeLure: FWIW as soon as knemo 0.4 will be released, Percy will work on use a lib instead of if/iwconfig route11:08
LureTonio_: this is on full speed?11:08
Tonio_Lure: yes, I never decrese the cpu speed ;)11:08
alleeLure: I tried to convience him to do it for 0.4.  But he said he's too busy to do it right now11:08
Tonio_Lure: without knemo, I get 0.1%11:08
Tonio_you're right11:08
Tonio_there is a replacement we can suggest for knemo11:09
=== allee see 2-3% with knemo running and CPU at 600 MHz
LureCPU usage also means battery time for notebooks and I do not lake to trade that for one icon ;-)11:09
Tonio_called knetdockapp11:09
Tonio_Lure: you should test, it is quite nice11:09
Lurebut I do not object for knemo to be started by default in Dapper - I can turn it off by myself11:10
Tonio_I did a package for dapper11:10
Tonio_and mostly, knetdockapp is maintained, when knemo isn't11:10
Tonio_allee: already tested it ?11:11
=== Lure installing knetdockapp
Tonio_allee: I saw you in the changelog for wlassistant;)11:11
Tonio_allee: any news concerning the dhclient bug ?11:11
Tonio_Lure: the problem with knetdockapp is that it can't monitor several cards at the same time........11:13
LureTonio_: I just noticed... ;-( 11:13
Tonio_Lure: but cpu usage is about 0 :)11:13
Tonio_we are not up to date11:13
Tonio_and I am in contact with upstream11:13
Lureand Setting window does not come nice on my screen (some elements overlap)11:13
Tonio_I could ask for feature11:13
LureCPU is 0% - really!11:14
Tonio_Lure: no app is perfect ;)11:14
LureWith graph ploting it goes to 3%11:14
Tonio_but todor is working hard on knetdockapp :)11:14
Tonio_Lure: ah ?.........11:14
Tonio_Lure: well it is correct I think11:15
LureTonio_: if you open Settings window and select active interface11:15
Lurebut that is normal for ploting graph online11:15
Tonio_Lure: yes and to me it is okay11:15
Tonio_Lure: can you provide a screenshot ?11:15
Tonio_0.67.3 - combined update. allow multiple instances, chart drawing and tooltip cleanups/updates11:18
Tonio_Lure: look at that 11:18
Tonio_Lure: we should update and make uvfe request don't you think ?11:18
Lurelooks good 11:19
Tonio_Lure: there is still a problem11:19
Tonio_knemo can display your interfaces automatically11:20
Tonio_if you have an ath0, it will be shown11:20
Tonio_knetdockapp requires way more config........11:20
alleeTonio_: I made a wlassistant deb after the release but could not try because all AP were is use.  So I don't know if it's fixed11:20
Tonio_allee: can you give me the deb ?11:20
Tonio_I'm gonna test right now11:20
alleewait ...11:20
Tonio_allee: I saw upstream switched to scons..............11:21
LureTonio_: screenshot: http://img71.imageshack.us/img71/1726/knetdock5bo.png11:21
Tonio_Lure: I can see yes11:22
Tonio_Lure: you have big fonts :)11:22
LureI think the issue is DPI - fonts are just what you set me in k-d-s11:22
Lure;-)11:22
Tonio_Lure: hu ?11:22
Tonio_you *should* have default ones ?11:23
Lure9 pt11:23
Tonio_what is the size you set in kde settings ?11:23
Tonio_Lure: amazing.........;11:23
Tonio_Lure: breezy updated or native ?11:23
Tonio_Lure: you are the first personn I see that has different fonts to what it is supposed to be11:24
Lureclean install Flight4+dist-upgrade (from two days agou, as daily CD did not work)11:24
LureI thought they are supposed to be 9pt11:24
alleeTonio_: http://www.mpe.mpg.de/~ach/tmp/11:24
Lure(I have same on desktop with 17"LCD with 96DPI)11:25
Tonio_allee: thanks :)11:25
Tonio_Lure: urgh ?11:25
Tonio_I have installed dapper about 30 times on 20 machines11:25
Tonio_never saw something like that.......11:26
Tonio_allee: did you saw that bug already ?11:26
LureTonio_: you did not see my initial Breezy ;-)11:26
alleeLure: what gives: xrdb -query | grep dpi11:26
LureXft.dpi:        14611:26
Lurewhich is average of two DPI11:27
Lurexdpyinfo says:11:27
alleeLure: and you have a 146 dpi display?11:27
Lureresolution:    147x145 dots per inch11:27
Luredimensions:    1920x1200 pixels (332x210 millimeters)11:27
Lureand this is all correct11:27
Tonio_allee: isn't that supposed to be set to 96 instead of 146 ?11:27
alleeLure: then the fonts are correct. And that we see huge fonts is just because we have DPI << 146 :)11:27
Tonio_Lure: the problem is that xft.dpi is supposed to be set, and fixed11:28
Tonio_not DPI but xft.dpi11:28
alleeTonio_: no for dpi > 140 dpi the real resolution is used11:28
Tonio_allee: ah ? didn't knew that :)11:28
Lureallee: true (I have debugged displayconfig)11:28
Tonio_allee: sounds logic :)11:28
Lure;-)11:28
=== allee join the happy club
LureTonio_: but fonts do not look bad elsewhere (including Firefox/GTK)11:29
LureOnly here and there there is some dialog that could look better - like knetdock11:29
Tonio_allee: my wifi adapter is set to eth111:30
Tonio_wlassistant doesn't like that.........11:30
Tonio_Lure: okay kool :)11:30
Lurereally? I think ipw2200 is always ethX11:30
Tonio_:'(11:30
Tonio_Lure: wlassistant tells me that it doesn't see any wireless adapter11:31
alleeLure: fonts looks fine.  I get the same with 10pt or was it 11 pt fonts11:31
alleeLure: with hires screens there's a switch from 1 to 2 pixels used for line width.  This makes the fonts look bold11:32
Lureallee: true - this is why I have turned some to 8pt on Breezy (I may do sameon Dapper)11:33
alleeLure: looks like you're a perfect tester for hackish layouts are on sees in your screenshot :)11:33
Lureallee: you have not seen my login screen...11:33
alleeLure: I was first 'shocked' to by the boldness.  But with some time one gets used to it11:34
alleeLure: ah, yeah, same here too.  Icons where totally off from login window 11:35
Lurehttp://img207.imageshack.us/my.php?image=kdm1920x12002gr.jpg11:35
Lurethat will wake you up for sure ;-)11:36
alleeTonio_: wlassistant 0.5.5-1 has no problems with eth1, at least it finds the WPA encrypted networks here11:37
alleeI have ips2200 in my laptop too.11:37
Lureallee: is wlassistant deb for dapper or should I build from source?11:38
alleeTonio_: what does iwconfig detect your wireless extentions11:38
Tonio_allee: yup11:38
alleeLure: is dapper deb11:38
Tonio_let me pastebin11:38
=== Lure installing wlassistant...
Tonio_allee: http://pastebin.com/60256011:39
Tonio_looking at the soruces to understant11:39
Tonio_but yes, no pb with my wifi actually11:39
LureTonio_: works here (active WPA2 on ipw2200 on eth1)11:40
Tonio_Lure: if that works for you, something you can try is connect11:40
Tonio_then disconnect and reconnect11:40
Tonio_old bug was wasn't working on the second connection without performing a manual "dhclient" command11:41
=== Lure will do (right back)
Tonio_Lure: okay thanks :)11:41
alleeTonio_: http://kubuntu.pastebin.com/602564 is what I get on startup.  But I can't try to connect because AP uses WPA11:41
Tonio_allee: http://kubuntu.pastebin.com/60257411:42
Tonio_seems that the iwconfig output isn't parsed correctly11:42
Tonio_strange issue.........11:43
alleeTonio_: ah, you have a brodcom wlan.  So you have to use use ndiswrapper?11:43
Tonio_allee: no11:43
LureTonio_: first, I had to run with kdesu, then it only supports wep connect11:43
Lure:-( 11:43
Tonio_allee: detected from scratch, but I have to extract the firmware from the windows drvier......11:43
alleeTonio_: ah the nickname is the one of your AP :)11:44
Tonio_allee: really worse than simple ndiswrapper.........11:44
Tonio_allee: yes ;)11:44
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Tonio_hu ????????11:53
Tonio_allee: master please !!!!!!!!11:53
Tonio_allee: how can you explain this :11:53
Tonio_my wifi card doesn't work11:53
Tonio_but when I install network-manager, it does ;)11:53
Tonio_amazing issue11:54
robotgeekTonio_: dapper broadcom driver?11:54
Tonio_robotgeek: yes11:54
Tonio_with firmware extacted from the windows driver and placed in /lib/firmwares11:54
robotgeekTonio_: look for the words "link becomes ready" in /var/log/syslog11:54
Tonio_robotgeek: k11:54
robotgeekTonio_: basically, it is good to have some kind of a delay in there11:55
Tonio_robotgeek: nothing concerning eth111:56
Tonio_only eth0.........11:56
Tonio_Mar 14 23:52:55 kubuntu kernel: [4294980.918000]  ADDRCONF(NETDEV_UP): eth1: link is not ready11:57
Tonio_robotgeek: okay I can see11:57
Tonio_robotgeek: any way to set a little delay ?11:58
robotgeekTonio_: weird, try this script. http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/1024711:58
=== Tonio_ regrets when everything was nice with ndiswrapper
robotgeekTonio_: i use this on a daily basis, so it should work for you too :)11:59
Tonio_this driver is a pain, really..........12:00
Tonio_robotgeek: rebooting and testing ;)12:03

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