[12:47] <robertj> would it be too late to get Wesnoth added to gnome-app-install?
[12:48] <robertj> oh doh, it's already there under "Battle for Wesnoth"
[12:48] <robertj> <blush />
[12:49] <LaserJock> robertj: glad we could help ;-)
[12:49] <nictuku> -)
[12:50] <LaserJock> those are my favorite bug fixes
[12:58] <Burgwork> robertj, generally, if it has a .desktop file, it should already be in g-a-i
[12:58] <Burgwork> robertj, what would be great is to find things that don't have a .desktop file and file a bug for those
[12:58] <Burgwork> preferably with a .desktop in the bug
[12:59] <robertj> yeah, I wonder if Wesnoth 1.1 should be shipped w/ dapper, it's a development release and online multiplayer doesn't work
[12:59] <robertj> whereas 1.0 is stable and has online multiplayer
[12:59] <Kyral> hmm
[12:59] <Kyral> how wanted is an easy setup for Xen in Dapper?
[12:59] <Burgwork> Kyral, not likely for dapper, but dapper+1
[12:59] <Kyral> Yah I should have said in general lol
[01:00] <Burgwork> Kyral, as we are too late into freeze
[01:00] <Burgwork> but yes, Xen would be great
[01:00] <Burgwork> somebody did some work for SoC
[01:00] <Kyral> Yah
[01:00] <Kyral> Ed Despard
[01:00] <Kyral> he went to my university :P
[01:00] <Kyral> We had his server around in the COSI until recently
[01:01] <LaserJock> hmmm
[01:01] <Kyral> I guess I could start by writing something for the Wiki (my domain azuredreams.us runs on XenBreezy)
[01:04] <infinity> LaserJock: Giving it back isn't going to help, it needs some scons abuse love first.
[01:05] <LaserJock> infinity: yeah, slomo told me about that
[01:06] <LaserJock> infinity: is that in the works?
[01:07] <Mez> jdub: ping
[01:07] <Mez> jdub isnt here
[01:07] <Mez> hmm
[01:08] <Burgwork> Mez, he was active in gnome-hackers on gimpnet not 5 minutes ago
[01:08] <jdub> Mez: pong (geez, give me a second at least...)
[01:08] <Mez> oh hey jdub :D
[01:08] <Mez> didnt see you there :d
[01:08] <Mez> It's not showing you in /names
[01:08] <Mez> jdub: is it me - or does it seem a bit wrong to be able to - with the default ubuntu setup have the word "bullshit" appear in huge letters on your screen?
[01:09] <Mez> (and quite possibly in the edubuntu default install too - havent tested that yet)
[01:09] <jdub> if you gave me some context, i could probably answer
[01:09] <infinity> LaserJock: I'll sort it today.
[01:09] <Mez> jdub: context
[01:10] <Mez> you're sitting there nicely doodling on a pad next to your computer 
[01:10] <LaserJock> infinity: oh cool. Thanks.
[01:10] <Mez> the screensaver kicks in and you see the words "wave your bullshit wand with me" scrolling across the screen
[01:11] <jdub> if you're saying that planet ubuntu shouldn't be used as the RSS source for the screensavers, i agree.
[01:11] <jdub> i dunno why you're asking me though.
[01:11] <Mez> jdub: is that where it came from?
[01:11] <jdub> sounds like a worthwhile bug.
[01:11] <Mez> jdub: didnt know it was getting it from planet
[01:11] <jdub> and i'd suggest using the fridge instead.
[01:11] <Mez> but it jsut severly f**ked up a presentation :D
[01:11] <Kyral> Actually I should email Jeff about linking in my blog to Planet
[01:12] <jdub> please do - planet ubuntu is a bit slow ;-)
[01:12] <Mez> jdub: I only asked you as your name appeared next to it
[01:12] <Mez> I didnt know it was getting it from planet
[01:12] <jdub> ogra: ping (rss url in screensavers)
[01:13] <Mez> but It's not good when trying to persuade people the ability of ubuntu to hae that scrolling across the screen on a projector ;)
[01:13] <Mez> jdub: should I report a bug
[01:14] <jdub> Mez: yeah
[01:14] <Mez> x-screensaver?
[01:14] <jdub> Mez: make sure to cc ogra on it
[01:14] <jdub> yeah
[01:17] <Mez> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/xscreensaver/+bug/34829
[01:17] <Ubugtu> malone bug 34829 in xscreensaver "RSS feed from planet" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  
[01:17] <Mez> hey jdong 
[01:17] <jdong> hey, mez
[01:18] <jdong> Dapper's coming together quite nicely
[01:18] <jdong> I've upgraded most of my systems over to Dapper
[01:18] <jdong> successful upgrades, BTW
[01:18] <jdong> great work, everyone
[01:19] <Mez> jdong: couldnt agree more
[01:19] <Mez> though - the orange ...
[01:19] <jdong> Mez: it brightens up my desktop a bit :)
[01:19] <jdong> and I appreciate that
[01:19] <jdong> Mez: aren't you a kubuntu user anyway? ;)
[01:19] <Mez> jdong: yes
[01:19] <Mez> so I'm lucky
[01:19] <Mez> I get blue
[01:20] <jdong> HEH
[01:20] <Kyral> mmm KDE...
[01:20] <jdong> geez is cdimage.ubuntu.com slow
[01:20] <Mez> jdub: oh, your blog is down
[01:24] <jdub> yep
[01:25] <PuppiesOnAcid> How come XChat wasn't included in Dapper Flight 5?
[01:26] <Burgwork> PuppiesOnAcid, we are no longer shipping a seperate IRC client
[01:26] <Kyral> "seperate"
[01:26] <Kyral> wasn't XChat the default client?
[01:26] <Burgwork> sivang, I want to see backup hotness
[01:26] <PuppiesOnAcid> Burgwork: What'st he reason for that?  I'm just curious.
[01:26] <jdub> Kyral: you can install xchat very easily
[01:26] <Burgwork> PuppiesOnAcid, not enough of the user base is actuallly using irc
[01:26] <jdub> Burgwork: don't confuse it by saying it like that
[01:27] <PuppiesOnAcid> Burgwork: Ah, interesting.
[01:27] <Burgwork> jdub, hmm?
[01:27] <Kyral> jdub, I know :P
[01:27] <Burgwork> that is my understanding
[01:27] <Kyral> jdub, frankly I use Konversation or Irssi
[01:27] <Burgwork> oh, I said seperate because of gaim
[01:27] <jdub> Burgwork: that's a very confusing and roundabout way to say what we've done
[01:27] <jdub> exactly
[01:27] <jdub> that's irrelevant :0
[01:27] <Burgwork> ok
[01:27] <jdub> :) rather
[01:27] <Kyral> Burgwork, you consider GAIM's lame excuse of a client an IRC Client?
[01:28] <Burgwork> Kyral, it exists. It has no bearing on not shipping xchat
[01:28] <jdub> "we're not shipping a gui irc client out of the box, because it only serves the needs of a very small niche"
[01:28] <Kyral> jdub, doesn't the default homepage mention IRC? (I haven't seen it in a while)
[01:28] <jdub> "you can install it very easily in moments"
[01:29] <jdub> Kyral: i believe that's changed
[01:29] <Burgwork> Kyral, yes it does and the doc team is discussing what to do
[01:29] <jdub> (but it wasn't a hugely useful thing to say anyway)
[01:29] <Kyral> oy oy oy
[01:29] <Kyral> I'm just getting flashbacks to the reason why Build-Essential isn't installed by default...
[01:30] <Burgwork> neither b-e or xchat is going to be used by your mother, or the guy in the next cubicle
[01:30] <jdub> man, the rationale for skipping b-e is even stronger than xchat
[01:30] <Kyral> Burgwork, you don't know how much crap I get from my Linux friends about the fact that they have to manually install a compiler
[01:31] <Burgwork> Kyral, there are lots of other linux distros out there...
[01:31] <Burgwork> plus, it really is easy to install
[01:31] <Kyral> Burgwork, I know, I sometimes just get sick of the multiple jokes at Ubuntu's expense in the COSI
[01:31] <Kyral> it's just venting ATM
[01:31] <Burgwork> what people really want is a stable system
[01:31] <Kyral> "Ubuntu is for Communists"
[01:32] <HrdwrBoB> apt-get install build-essential is so head?
[01:32] <jdub> Kyral: technically proficient person being teased by technically proficient people for installing something that is not of interest or use to 99% of the population is not great rationale for shipping something that is not of interest or use to 99% of the population
[01:32] <HrdwrBoB> hard
[01:32] <Burgwork> my boss is busy discovering what happens when you base your product on a non-stable platform (Fedora)
[01:32] <Kyral> HrdwrBoB, I think its just taking cracks at Ubuntu's success
[01:32] <HrdwrBoB> Kyral: it's basically old school unix people who think that things should be hard
[01:33] <HrdwrBoB> and can't see a reason why you would make it easy
[01:33] <Kyral> HrdwrBoB, I get that way sometimes lol
[01:33] <sladen> technical jab at jdub
[01:33] <jdub> sladen: actually take a jab then
[01:33] <Kyral> I'm one of those idiots who gets nostaligic at doing the ./configure && make && sudo make install dance
[01:35] <Kyral> who wants to do a LFS install "just to see what its like"
[01:35] <Kyral> -ERANT
[01:35] <Burgwork> I am not and that is why I like Ubuntu
[01:35] <Kyral> Burgwork, Oh I get lazy sometimes. But I'm curious as all hell
[01:36] <Burgwork> I don't call it lazy. I have a finite amount of time. I would rather spend it on more interesting (to me) things
[01:36] <LaserJock> Burgwork: +1
[01:36] <Kyral> Burgwork, and this is interesting lol
[01:37] <Kyral> I mean I COULD have done my webserver without Xen
[01:37] <Kyral> and have it done easier
[01:37] <HrdwrBoB> Kyral: I'm old and agree with Burgwork 
[01:37] <Kyral> but I wanted to learn about Xen
[01:37] <HrdwrBoB> I choose to spend my time on more productive things
[01:37] <jdub> Kyral: different use case
[01:37] <Kyral> Then again, Burgwork, you guilt trip people into packaging for you :P
[01:38] <Burgwork> Kyral, I find packaging hard and baffling. That time thing again
[01:38] <Kyral> lol
[01:38] <Kyral> Burgwork, I know :P
[01:38] <Kyral> ack! Gotta fetch the dog!
[01:38] <Kyral> sorry for the rant lol
[01:39] <Kyral> I mean I know people want things to just work. When I install my on my laptop I want it to go quick
[01:39] <Kyral> (why am I using Debian Sid then...)
[01:41] <Kyral> Acutally when I do that Xen thing (maybe, depends on how much time I have during he summer)
[01:41] <Kyral> I plan to write a GUI for it as well
[01:43] <Kyral> granted this means learning PyGTK and how to integrate it into the GNOME and KDE control centers...
[01:43] <Kyral> but, more tools under my belt, more skills to go on the resume
[02:21] <Kyral> hey bddebian
[02:21] <bddebian> Howdy Kyral
[02:22] <tritium> hey bddebian
[02:22] <bddebian> tritium!!!
[02:22] <tritium> :)
[05:18] <nate_> can someone point me to the d-i preseed file docs?
[05:21] <infinity> Riddell: kde-systemsettings is FTBFS, seems to want to $DISPLAY set during the build or some such..
[05:29] <robscheck> has anyone already packaged up gnash (FSF's flash player) on any of the repos?
[05:36] <LaserJock> Seveas: ping?
[05:59] <infinity> LaserJock: supercollider isn't 64-bit clean, it looks like.  Fails on ia64 and amd64 while trying to cast a 64-bit int to a 32-bit one (Woo, special).. Looking at a successful build on one of the 32-bit arches, it looks like the source suffers from type schizophrenia all over the place.  Fix all the warning on i386, and it'll be happy on amd64.
[06:00] <LaserJock> infinity: ok, thanks for looking at it
[06:02] <infinity> LaserJock: Anyhow, the buildd problem that was making it fail everywhere has been fixed, so if you fix the type issues, it'll be all good.
[08:51] <dholbach> morning
[08:52] <Burgundavia> morning dholbach
[08:52] <Mithrandir> iz triplicate dholbach.
[08:52] <dholbach> Mithrandir: :-p
[08:54] <infinity> Ah-ha, just the man I was looking for.
[08:54] <infinity> dholbach: gnome-applets is FTBFS on all arches, and it's ALL YOUR FAULT.
[08:54] <infinity> dholbach: Or something. :)
[08:55] <dholbach> infinity: merci
[08:55] <dholbach> will poke it
[09:18] <sivang> morning all
[09:19] <sivang> Burgundavia: can I use you as a helping hand then ? :)
[09:19] <Burgundavia> sivang: for which? testing?
[09:20] <sivang> Burgundavia: erm, a bit of development still to go? 
[09:20] <sivang> morning dholbach , Mithrandir 
[09:20] <Mithrandir> hi sivang
[09:20] <sivang> and former canadian infinity 
[09:20] <Burgundavia> sivang: you asking me to produce actual code? That wierd stuff called "C" or "Python"? :)
[09:20] <dholbach> hi sivang
[09:20] <sivang> Burgundavia: ah ah ah
[09:20] <sivang> Burgundavia: the less weird Python :)
[09:21] <Burgundavia> you really don't want to see my python
[09:21] <Burgundavia> I realized about a year ago that my talents are better suited away from code, packaging and those internal bits
[09:31] <fabbione> dholbach: ping?
[09:31] <dholbach> fabbione: pong
[09:32] <fabbione> dholbach: i am having an issue with libgstreamer.. is there any way i can enable some extra debugging options without rebuiling?
[09:32] <fabbione> (using gdb is not an option atm)
[09:32] <dholbach> fabbione: what does it do/not do?
[09:33] <fabbione> dholbach: it BusError on sparc when used in combination with liboil. I need to find the code in libgstreamer that does use liboil.
[09:34] <fabbione> dholbach: so i am reducing the complexity of the code to get there.. and turned to be enough to call gst_init to make a mess
[09:34] <dholbach> there are quite some parts which use liboil
[09:34] <fabbione> dholbach: now.. i need to step trough gst_init -> gst_init_check to see where it dies
[09:34] <fabbione> dholbach: it's right at initialization
[09:34] <fabbione> so i don't need to get utterly crazy
[09:35] <dholbach> we have *-dbg packages
[09:35] <fabbione> yes and they are installed
[09:35] <fabbione> but it seems there is the option to enable some extra printf?
[09:35] <fabbione>   ctx = g_option_context_new ("- GStreamer initialization");
[09:35] <fabbione> for example
[09:35] <fabbione> how can i make that stuff to be logged somewhere?
[09:36] <dholbach> checking
[09:36] <fabbione> thanks
[09:37] <dholbach> '--gst-debug-level=5'
[09:37] <dholbach> http://live.gnome.org/Bugsquad/TriageGuide/ProductSpecificGuidelines
[09:39] <fabbione> ok thanks
[09:39] <dholbach> thank you
[09:50] <jsgotangco> lol @ Seveas
[09:58] <zakame> hi all
[10:02] <Mithrandir> Seveas: you might want to +o yourself to be ready to kick people to get the crowd to be quiet.
[10:02] <Seveas> yeah
[10:57] <jono> hey, what time is the community meeting today ?
[10:57] <Treenaks> jono: now, on ubuntu-meeting
[10:57] <Treenaks> jono: (1 hour ago, but still going)
[10:58] <jdub> jono: but it is not random discussion. ie. ssshhh. :)
[10:58] <jono> :)
[11:02] <jono> so have I missed anything major in the meeting?
[11:02] <jono> is the delay confirmed?
[11:02] <Treenaks> jono: no, not really
[11:02] <jono> ahh
[11:02] <Mithrandir> jono: no, it's not confirmed and won't be decided now anyway.  There's a meeting tonight too.
[11:03] <Treenaks> jono: first hour or so was summing up comments/etc
[11:03] <Treenaks> jono: now sabdfl is replying
[11:03] <Mithrandir> jono: read the log as posted in topic on u-m
[11:03] <jono> ahhh of course
[11:03] <jono> Mithrandir, cool
[11:04] <jdub> ogra: suse article?
[11:04] <whiprush> ogra: link pls.
[11:04] <whiprush> jono: did you get my book feedback?
[11:05] <jono> whiprush, certainly did, great feedback
[11:05] <jono> whiprush, the chapter I wrote was a little rushed due to insane schedules, so the feedback has been really useful :)
[11:05] <jono> I have added lots of new bits to it :)
[11:05] <whiprush> jono: this book will rule nonetheless. :)
[11:05] <jono> it will with feedback like yours whiprush :)
[11:06] <ogra> whiprush, jdub printed press
[11:06] <jono> can anyone make comments in this meeting or only certain people ?
[11:07] <Treenaks> jono: if you have a comment, /msg Seveas 
[11:07] <jono> ok
[11:08] <jdub> ogra: synopsis?
[11:09] <ogra> jdub, suse got a very bad article in yesterdays german "linux user" 
[11:09] <ogra> essentially about missing features, missing drivers and that they didnt even make it even they postponed the release 4 weeks
[11:12] <jdub> ah
[11:22] <highvoltage> i'm asking here, as apposed to in meeting, has the option of having two 6.04 releases been mentioned yet, as in a 6.04 dapper, and then another 6.06 enterprise dapper?
[11:23] <jdub> highvoltage: btw, nexenta has always been based on ubuntu
[11:23] <jdub> highvoltage: yes, very early on, and discarded - we can't develop so many branches
[11:24] <highvoltage> jdub: ok on multi-versions, perhaps i should update my blog entry... /me grumbles...
[11:26] <jono> jdub, every time you say "heavy metal" in the meeting, my knees quiver with metal pride :P
[11:32] <sivang> seb128: do you have any idea what ubuntu-fr are using for their content management?
[11:33] <sivang> smurf: is there a possibility to have MoinMoin as it's on the ubuntu.com website installed for a loco team site?
[11:33] <seb128> no
[11:33] <sivang> smurf: (provided it's no longer Zope/Plone as I Understood)
[11:36] <vuntz_> sivang: for the ubuntu-fr wiki?
[11:37] <Mithrandir> Seveas: (re the "Never seen a CEO take the community so serious" comment)  read http://azure.humbug.org.au/~aj/blog/2005/06/07?seemore=y ; scroll down to "community". :-)
[11:37] <vuntz_> sivang: or the content management for antoher page?
[11:38] <Kamion> jono: my notes on the issue you raised say:
[11:38] <Kamion>   * Diagnosed why partition automounting isn't working in the
[11:38] <Kamion>     auto-resize case (method and acting_filesystem files not copied over
[11:38] <Kamion>     to the new partman device directory). Not yet sure why or how to fix
[11:38] <Kamion>     it.
[11:38] <Kamion> jono: AFAIK it's only a problem in the case where you're resizing an existing Windows partition
[11:38] <Kamion> jono: and it's just a bug, not a new feature that needs to be added
[11:39] <seb128> Kamion: there is no automounting on the liveCD neither
[11:39] <Kamion> seb128: Mithrandir had code for that; not sure what happened to it
[11:39] <seb128> Kamion: people tend to be disapointed by that because usually when they use the liveCD they would like to be able to use their win partition from the box
[11:40] <seb128> Mithrandir: ping?
[11:40] <Mithrandir> seb128: pong
[11:40] <Kamion> but that's an entirely separate problem, and not my problem ;)
[11:40] <seb128> k
[11:40] <Kamion> yay conflation
[11:40] <seb128> Mithrandir: auto-mounting on win partitions for liveCD will happen before dapper?
[11:40] <seb128> s/on/of
[11:40] <Mithrandir> seb128: we could do that, sure.
[11:40] <Mithrandir> just mount them all in /media should work?
[11:41] <jono> Kamion, from the users perspective it would be useful if any windows partitions were detected and device icons placed on the desktop
[11:41] <seb128> Mithrandir: yep
[11:41] <jono> Kamion, is that a resize issue?
[11:41] <pitti> I guess we could grab unmounted vfat partitions from hal and automount them
[11:41] <pitti> but that would require us to change our policy wrt to that
[11:41] <seb128> Mithrandir: that seems to be one of the frequent complain of people trying it on their box, they expect to be able to use their win partition (ie: have icons for them on the desktop)
[11:41] <Mithrandir> pitti: the live cd can do whatever it wants to.  I'll probably chuck them in the fstab.
[11:42] <pitti> Mithrandir: true
[11:42] <Mithrandir> seb128: I'm wondering if we should mount them R/O or not, as IIRC, NTFS writing isn't too well supported.
[11:42] <pitti> Mithrandir: hmm, since the installer already puts them into fstab by default, that should reasonably settle installs too
[11:42] <jono> I think its a real showstopper for many people - you install this awesome distro graphically and then need need to hack /etc/fstab to get your windows disks to work
[11:42] <Kamion> jono: Windows partitions are put in fstab already if you're not using the auto-resize thing
[11:42] <mjg59> The kernel will refuse to mount ntfs partitions read/write unless you force it
[11:43] <mjg59> So if they're going in fstab, they might as well go in rw
[11:43] <Kamion> jono: if you know of cases where it fails to work if you *aren't* resizing an existing Windows partition, I would like to know about it
[11:43] <seb128> Mithrandir: vfat RW, ntfs RO
[11:43] <jono> Kamion, ahhh maybe I am wrong
[11:43] <Mithrandir> seb128: agreed, but we'll get complaints about it.
[11:43] <seb128> there is no other way around
[11:43] <Kamion> jono: icons on the desktop aren't my problem or domain of expertise
[11:43] <seb128> ntfs writting doesn't work
[11:43] <mjg59> Mithrandir: NTFS write support is broken to the point where creating, removing or resizing files will corrupt the filesystem
[11:44] <Mithrandir> mjg59: joy.
[11:44] <spacey> jono: my ntfs disk is available in dapper, i never requested that
[11:44] <mjg59> Mithrandir: But that's ok, because even if you ask to mount it rw, the kernel will ignore you
[11:44] <Kamion> jono: it is possible that it's broken in cases other than auto-resize - I'm serious about wanting bug reports about that
[11:45] <jono> Kamion, ok, but are you willling to deal with the wrath of Susan when I install dapper on her machine and it eats the world :P
[11:45] <ogra> mdz, http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/LtspBoot :)
[11:49] <marty> can't ubuntu have a "out-of-box-experience" dialog that asks users how they want to handle the NTFS partitions it has found.  i definitely wouldn't want NTFS write my default for atleast  6 months or more of solid testing in the wild
[11:50] <seb128> marty: why asking, we just have to mount seems has readonly
[11:50] <seb128> s/has/as
[11:50] <jdub> marty: how would you word that dialogue such that it didn't sound like the doc in BTTF explaining how the flux capacitor works?
[11:51] <Treenaks> jdub: Marty McFly?
[11:51] <jdub> Treenaks: i don't think that would adequately explain the issue
[11:51] <Treenaks> jdub: it does explain the BTTF experience
[11:52] <whiprush> flux capacitor ... fluxing
[11:53] <tepsipakki> mjg59: making ntfs show up as rw in fstab would confuse people
[11:53] <marty> jdub, true true - i guess might not want to scare the natives
[11:54] <ogra> jdub !!!!
[11:54] <seb128> Kinnison: new g-p-m if you want to update it
[11:54] <ogra> bug 34829
[11:54] <Ubugtu> malone bug 34829 in xscreensaver "RSS feed from planet" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/34829
[11:54] <seb128> ogra: did you do the g-s-s update yesterday?
[11:54] <ogra> jdub, calm your voice !
[11:54] <ogra> seb128, yep
[11:55] <seb128> k, just cleaning the "to package" list :p
[11:55] <ogra> seb128, ppc ftbfs though
[11:55] <jdub> ogra: hrm?
[11:55] <seb128> pitti: you did do g-v-m yet?
[11:55] <seb128> ogra: where do you find build logs nowadays?
[11:55] <ogra> jdub, see 34829
[11:55] <jdub> oh yeah
[11:55] <jdub> you should totally use the fridge feed instead
[11:55] <seb128> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+builds page has logs from previous month
[11:55] <ogra> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/gnome-screensaver/2.14.0-0ubuntu1
[11:56] <Kamion> marty: there's no point until the kernel doesn't eat filesystems when you turn it on
[11:56] <ogra> seb128, see the right portlet
[11:56] <seb128> ogra: you go package by package?
[11:56] <ogra> its a bit tricky to get there 
[11:56] <seb128> ogra: that's not suitable when you do 40 uploads in a row :/
[11:56] <ogra> seb128, its the best opportunity until the buildlog page is fixed
[11:56] <jdub> ROAR sebuild ROAR
[11:56] <seb128> ogra: yeah, I know that page, but I don't want to browse every single upload I did
[11:57] <seb128> ogra: other is to wait for bugs, that's what I'm going to do
[11:57] <ogra> seb128, i understand ... i'm not fond of the logs page either
[11:57] <seb128> jdub: :)
[11:57] <ogra> but there are more important LP bugs i guess
[11:58] <pitti> seb128: no, sorry, but I will now
[11:59] <pitti> Kinnison: hey Daniel, got a minute?
[11:59] <seb128> pitti: np, before tomorrow would be nice so we have new GNOME on time :)
[11:59] <pitti> alright, will do now
[11:59] <pitti> seb128: before I'll do some bug triage to collect and sort all the free space notification bugs
[12:00] <pitti> seb128: btw, it would be good to get fresh langpacks tomorrow, right?
[12:00] <seb128> pitti: ok, they did quite some changes to it according to the ChangeLog
[12:00] <pitti> seb128: right, and I'd like to sort/fix the bugs alongside 
[12:00] <seb128> pitti: that would rock, we will have new GNOME in by today, perfect timing
[12:00] <pitti> carlos: any chance to get rosetta data for tomorrow? or shall I build the packs the ol' way?
[12:01] <carlos> pitti: dapper?
[12:01] <pitti> yes
[12:02] <carlos> pitti: no, sorry, still fighting with our test machinery that is preventing me to move my code into production
[12:03] <tepsipakki> seb128: how about malone #30384 for dapper? it's a oneliner, and fixes a bug
[12:03] <Ubugtu> malone bug 30384 in gnome-session "gnome-session-save presents a gui always" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/30384
[12:03] <pitti> seb128: current dload-strippedtar.txt looks pretty good, thanks to your pot generation fixes
[12:03] <seb128> tepsipakki: I'll have a look later but I'm not convinced it's useful and should go upstream
[12:03] <seb128> pitti: do you have it somewhere? I though it was pending on pqm or something?
[12:03] <seb128> pitti: you're welcome :)
[12:03] <pitti> seb128: 'it'?
[12:04] <seb128> dload-strippedtar.txt
[12:04] <tepsipakki> seb128: well, is there another way of shutting the session down from cmdline?
[12:04] <seb128> tepsipakki: no, but there is an API which should be used from programs and which works fine
[12:05] <jono> do we have any further idea if the shipit CDs will just include the Live CD with espresso?
[12:05] <tepsipakki> seb128: ok, but making gnome-screensaver use that certainly wouldn't cut it in time ;)
[12:06] <seb128> why the heck doesn't a screensaver needs to save your session?
[12:06] <pitti> seb128: it's on the usual place: http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/langpacks/dload-strippedtar.txt
[12:07] <tepsipakki> classroom use: you have the screen locked for a preset time and then anyone can log you out
[12:07] <pitti> seb128: that's just my script that builds a rosetta-like tarball from the buildd output
[12:07] <seb128> pitti: it was not updated for some time, I though it was broken by move to soyuz or something
[12:07] <pitti> seb128: right, we fixed it again
[12:07] <seb128> ah, ok, I though that was pending an action from carlos in fact
[12:07] <seb128> cool
[12:07] <pitti> seb128: well, it wasn't exactly broken in the bug sense, it was just designed that way before
[12:08] <seb128> it still has outdated datas, I guess it has missed some uploads and will update those with next upload?
[12:09] <seb128> like gnumeric
[12:09] <seb128> "W: gnumeric_1.6.2-0ubuntu3: 2 domains, but 0 pot files"
[12:09] <Kamion> apologies for cdimage breakage today, was due to some non-g+s directories - fixed builds are in progress now
[12:09] <seb128> and we have gnumeric_1.6.2-0ubuntu4 atm
[12:12] <pitti> seb128: right, many tarballs weren't exported, specifically the ones between Feb 25 and March 3 (or so)
[12:34] <thep> Kamion, hello from localisation sprint. I'm Thep from Thailand.
[12:34] <jono> does the PC version of Dapper work on Xeon?
[12:35] <Mithrandir> jono: yes.
[12:35] <HrdwrBoB> yes
[12:35] <pitti> hi thep
[12:35] <jono> thanks
[12:35] <thep> pitti, hi
[12:36] <thep> I'd like to check what's done for Thai environment in ubuntu installer
[12:38] <thep> http://linux.thai.net/~thep/ubuntu/thai-issues.html <-- Here are summarised issues for Thai. The packaging are mostly done. But the installer concern remains.
[01:00] <Kamion> thep: #  Thai environment in installer + live CD
[01:00] <Kamion>     * th_TH.TIS-620, th_TH.UTF-8 locale generation
[01:00] <Kamion> this one?
[01:00] <Kamion> console-tools, console-data: Thai console fonts and keymap
[01:00] <Kamion> presumably that too
[01:01] <Kamion> the locale should be generated automatically when language-pack-th is installed, although at present only UTF-8 locales are generated
[01:02] <Kamion> Thai has no translations in d-i at present
[01:02] <thep> yup.
[01:02] <Kamion> does Thai require combining character support?
[01:02] <Kamion> are there any console fonts for it at present?
[01:02] <thep> Yes.
[01:03] <Kamion> yes to which? sorry I asked two yes/no questions at once
[01:03] <thep> I also plan to do it after desktop tasks.
[01:03] <thep> I mean, the console fonts.
[01:03] <Kamion> ok
[01:03] <thep> and keymap
[01:03] <Kamion> it is very difficult to incorporate new installer translations after upstream version freeze :(
[01:04] <Kamion> there are several dozen packages involved and all of them have to be uploaded
[01:04] <thep> I see.
[01:04] <Kamion> it might be easier to concentrate on espresso for now ... though the localisation framework for that isn't complete yet, which is my problem and something I have to work on RSN
[01:04] <jordi> Kamion: hey dude
[01:04] <thep> What is espresso?
[01:04] <Kamion> thep: live CD-based installer
[01:05] <jordi> Kamion: regarding espresso, I wanted to talk to you about it.
[01:05] <Kamion> jordi: yes, I saw your question, but there's probably not much I can say until I get the localisation framework done ...
[01:05] <jordi> mdz tells me you've tried to reuse strings from di
[01:05] <Kamion> yes
[01:05] <jordi> oh.
[01:05] <mdz> there will be important new strings though
[01:05] <jordi> is it safe to create a master-file by hand now that I can feed people with?
[01:05] <Kamion> indeed, we can only reuse a subset
[01:05] <Kamion> jordi: no no no no no
[01:05] <Kamion> sorry
[01:06] <jordi> ok ok ok :)
[01:06] <Kamion> it's just not in place yet
[01:06] <mdz> Kamion: what sort of work needs to be done there?
[01:06] <jordi> ok, was just wondering
[01:06] <Kamion> mdz: debconf escape extension so that I can put multi-line strings there
[01:06] <jordi> this is planned for dapper still, right?
[01:06] <Kamion> yes
[01:06] <jordi> k
[01:06] <mdz> Kamion: can you get Mithrandir or Kinnison cracking on that?
[01:06] <Kamion> mdz: please, I've already got it mostly done, don't make me farm it out now :)
[01:07] <jordi> :)
[01:07] <Kamion> it would not be productive to give it to somebody else at this stage
[01:07] <thep> Regarding XKB setup, it's done in xserver-xorg, right?
[01:07] <Kamion> thep: yeah
[01:08] <thep> I remember debian's xorg left some incomplete default for Thai keymap
[01:08] <thep> Just not sure about ubuntu
[01:09] <thep> The default keymap should be the combined us,th
[01:09] <Kamion> th isn't in the list at present
[01:09] <Kamion> console-data support is a prerequisite for that
[01:09] <Seveas> mdz, sabdfl, ping
[01:10] <Kamion> because xorg calculates the default XKB setup from the console font selected by d-i
[01:10] <thep> Oh, so, I need to do console-data, anyway.
[01:10] <soumyadip> Kamion, can you spare a couple of minutes ?
[01:11] <thep> s/I/we/
[01:11] <Kamion> soumyadip: not lots - what's it about?
[01:11] <soumyadip> Kamion, well I'm facing a problem with font selection for Bengali in Firefox
[01:11] <pitti> soumyadip: can you please open a bug about it against firefox?
[01:12] <mdz> Seveas: ?
[01:12] <soumyadip> Kamion, for Bengali the default font is Freeserif
[01:12] <soumyadip> pitti, well I'm not sure it is a Firefox bug
[01:12] <pitti> mvo: ^ this might be sth for your spring
[01:12] <pitti> sprint, too
[01:12] <thep> Actually, I used to patch debian's old version of console-data and console-tools. Just need to update the patches.
[01:12] <pitti> soumyadip: mvo is currently on an l10n sprint with some Asian guys, maybe they can work that out?
[01:12] <soumyadip> Kamion, for all other languages like Hindi, Tamil, the appropriate fonts from ttf-indic-fonts is substituted
[01:13] <soumyadip> pitti, which channel ?
[01:13] <pitti> mvo? ^
[01:13] <mvo> #ubuntu-l10n
[01:14] <soumyadip> ok mvo 
[01:15] <Kamion> soumyadip: sorry, I really don't know anything about X font configuration
[01:15] <Kamion> thep: happy to take such patches
[01:16] <soumyadip> Kamion, ok, I'm talking to the people on #ubuntu-l10n
[01:18] <thep> Kamion, will do it soon in this sprint.
[01:27] <ogra> Mithrandir, could you check the g-s-s suspend issue during the day ? 
[01:31] <jono> is there any docs anywhere which dictate how a server install differs from a normal install ?
[01:31] <Mithrandir> ogra: I haven't seen it affect me today, but I could kill g-p-m and see if that "fixes" it.
[01:31] <ogra> heh
[01:32] <ogra> but that sounds promising ...
[01:32] <Mithrandir> ogra: if I yell at you in five minutes, it's still broken. :-)
[01:32] <ogra> so i'd have at least one bug squashed with the last upload, seems the flickering still happens
[01:32] <ogra> *sigh*
[01:34] <Kamion> jono: /preseed/server.seed on the CD images
[01:37] <jono> Kamion, cheers
[01:46] <mdz> ogra: any news on the gnome-screensaver flickering?
[01:47] <ogra> mdz, only that its still there 
[01:47] <ogra> at least according to the people on the bugs ...
[01:47] <ogra> but i hope i have the "ignores input after suspend" bug fixed 
[01:49] <ogra> (waiting for feedback)
[01:49] <sladen> ogra: I'll test it now
[01:50] <Seveas> Meeting Summary done - mail sent to devel/users/sounder lists. 
[01:50] <mdz> ogra: jordi should be able to confirm
[01:51] <ogra> mdz, i know the flickering is still there, i have several bugs where people confirmed ...
[01:52] <ogra> having one of the two majors fixed would already be cool though ...
[02:11] <elkbuntu> i'm about to restart x or reboot, which would youse prefer for testing purposes ;)
[02:20] <sivang> any X experts aroud to debug an X600 ati Xorg problem with breezy on a brand new AMD64 machine?
[02:20] <sivang> (I reckon it's more then the average user problem, that's why I'd ask here)
[02:21] <fabbione> Kamion: do you have 2 minutes to do a couple of override magic tricks for me?
[02:21] <elkbuntu> everyone seems mostly absent or very busy with other things at the moment sivang
[02:21] <janimo> sivang, what probem
[02:21] <janimo> lockup?
[02:22] <janimo> pci id of card?
[02:22] <doko> Kamion, ogra, pitti: please could one of you check #34884 on powerpc, first without upgrading?
[02:23] <Kamion> fabbione: sure
[02:23] <ogra> bug #34884
[02:23] <Ubugtu> malone bug 34884 in Ubuntu "crash when opening oo.o" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/34884
[02:23] <fabbione> Kamion: great!.. libc6-sparc*
[02:23] <fabbione> Kamion: i did seed them as you asked into minimal.. i think i have done it properly
[02:24] <fabbione> Kamion: but they still don't get installed by default..
[02:24] <sivang> janimo: looks like pci id of card
[02:24] <sivang> janimo: and duplicate symbol problem when using the open source driver
[02:24] <fabbione> Kamion: do you need to also change the overrides somewhere else?
[02:24] <janimo> what is the pci id of the card? :))
[02:24] <ogra> doko, starts here, but i'm pretty outdated with my system
[02:24] <fabbione> Kamion: note that i did use netinstall 
[02:24] <Kamion> fabbione: I can't change priorities yet - tool problem
[02:24] <janimo> sivang, fresh breezy install fails to start X, gives SIGILL or similar?
[02:25] <Kamion> fabbione: your packages are on the list at http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/jessica.txt, but I just can't process them yet
[02:25] <fabbione> Kamion: ah ok.. do you want me to remind you or will it autohappen?
[02:25] <fabbione> Kamion: ah ok :) thanks
[02:25] <ogra> doko, still using 2.0.1-0ubuntu3
[02:28] <sivang> janimo: fails to start X
[02:28] <janimo> sivang, there's an old bug open even from bugzilla times on this X600 issue
[02:29] <janimo> set option NoAccel true in xorg.conf under Device section
[02:29] <sivang> janimo: let's see, why aren't we fixing it ? :)
[02:29] <sivang> janimo: /me checks 
[02:29] <janimo> sivang, cause it's breezy
[02:29] <fabbione> sivang: because you didn't provide us a patch yet?
[02:29] <ogra> doko, for the upgrade i'll have to wait until DSL is back, i'm currently on ISDN ... (ETA 17:00)
[02:30] <janimo> fabbione: there was a patch actually but this did not make it to breezy updates after all
[02:30] <sivang> fabbione: indeed, true :)
[02:30] <fabbione> and it probably doesn't even apply anymore
[02:30] <fabbione> sivang: well check and see if it fixes the problem
[02:30] <janimo> fabbione: for breezy it applies, the problem is not in dapper
[02:30] <janimo> fabbione: he'd need to rebuild xorg for that :)
[02:30] <fabbione> janimo: so ?
[02:31] <sivang> fabbione: what do you mean " doea not apply?" , not trying to bug, just trying to understand :)
[02:31] <fabbione> it doesn't take long
[02:31] <janimo> there are i386 debs attac hed to the pacth but no amd64 ones
[02:31] <janimo> fabbione: but it takes knowledge
[02:31] <sivang> fabbione: I need to pull out also Xorg build macros or something, I missed those when I tried to fix the Xgl rgb.txt path bug.
[02:31] <fabbione> janimo: you joking?
[02:32] <fabbione> janimo: apt-get source && patch && apt-get build-dep && dpkg-buildpackage
[02:32] <fabbione> janimo: what knowledge do you need to do that?
[02:32] <ogra> and dpkg -i :)
[02:32] <janimo> fabbione: no I am not. telling users to rebuild iis not a solution to fixing bugs :)
[02:32] <fabbione> janimo: sivang is not a noirmal user
[02:32] <fabbione> janimo: otherwise i wouldn't asked
[02:32] <janimo> otherwise there would be no need for buildd, just source packages in the archive
[02:33] <janimo> fabbione: sivang said he's got a friend with the problem
[02:33] <janimo> skill may not be transmittable over phone for instance ;)
[02:33] <fabbione> janimo: and i give sivang the extra hint to start debugging it himself...
[02:33] <fabbione> also.. if that's the case he shouldn't be asking here..
[02:34] <janimo> fabbione: ok
[02:34] <janimo> fabbione: btw is there a mechanism when generating xorg conf to tailor it to specific cards, with blacklisting and such
[02:35] <janimo> say if a pci id is known to behave bad with dri not put a dri option in xorg.conf?
[02:35] <janimo> in the ubuntu install obviously
[02:35] <fabbione> janimo: somehow...
[02:36] <janimo> details? source pkg?
[02:36] <fabbione> x-common or xorg-common iirc
[02:36] <elkbuntu> why is there 2 different screensaver preferences dialog things in the system -> preferences menu?
[02:37] <ogra> elkbuntu, because you have xscreensaver installed... remove it ... as the upgrade tool does if you use it :)
[02:38] <Robot101> ogra: I discovered that this not-detecting-activity bug only happens when on battery power
[02:38] <elkbuntu> ogra, i've been upgrading, i upgraded about half an hour ago...
[02:38] <ogra> elkbuntu, with the distro upgrade tool from mvo's repository ? 
[02:39] <ogra> Robot101, does it still happen for you with 2.14 ?
[02:39] <elkbuntu> ogra, uh i did, sudo apt-get dist-upgrade, what is this tool?
[02:39] <Robot101> ogra: aha, let me upgrade
[02:39] <ogra> (there was a patch upstream that should have solved it)
[02:40] <ogra> and since Mithrandir didnt yell at me it seems its at least fixed for him :)
[02:40] <elkbuntu> ogra was that to me or Robot101?
[02:40] <ogra> elkbuntu, to Robot101 
[02:40] <Robot101> ogra: hm, ubuntu-desktop seems to dep on xscreensaver-{data,gl}
[02:40] <Robot101> does gnome-screensaver use them?
[02:40] <ogra> Robot101, thats fine, they holde the hacks
[02:40] <ogra> yup
[02:40] <Treenaks> is gnome bugzilla slow, or is it just me?
[02:40] <ogra> elkbuntu, see the ubuntu-devel mailing list, the tool is announced there anywhere
[02:42] <ogra> elkbuntu, thats where development coordiantion happens :)
[02:42] <elkbuntu> is this distro upgrade tool very recent?
[02:43] <ogra> its developed in the dapper dev cycle
[02:44] <elkbuntu> the dev mailing list archives are not displayed on the forum?
[02:45] <ogra> nope
[02:45] <ogra> (afaik)
[02:46] <Treenaks> Internal Server Error
[02:46] <elkbuntu> hehe, where can i see archives of the list then?
[02:46] <ogra> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel
[02:54] <ogra> sladen, wow, thanks a lot for that summary ... i'll look into it
[03:04] <elkbuntu> ogra, i'm not sure this is making a difference since my system is already at up-to-date dapper...
[03:05] <elkbuntu> actually, i rephrase, this is not making any difference. both screensaver things are still there
[03:05] <ogra> just uninstall xscreensaver... the upgrade tool would/should do it for you if you use it
[03:11] <Robot101> did anyone start hacking on sending dbus messages over X?
[03:11] <Robot101> I remember someone talking about it here...? Mithrandir?
[03:14] <Robot101> ogra: do you know of any dbus/X crack?
[03:14] <Mithrandir> Robot101: I've pondered doing it, yes.
[03:15] <Mithrandir> Robot101: it should be easy enough to do
[03:16] <sivang> janimo: this settings should work only with fglrx or ati FOSS driver?
[03:17] <janimo> sivang: ati for sure don't know about fglrx
[03:17] <janimo> but the UI will be very slow
[03:17] <janimo> so probably use fglrx for the moment
[03:18] <sivang> janimo: okay, I'll try.
[03:29] <ogra> Robot101, we'll need it for ltsp local device support, which was postponed to dapper+1
[03:29] <Robot101> ogra: people are discussing it in #dbus atm
[03:30] <ogra> cool, so we might get it for free in dapper+1 :)
[03:36] <nate_> ok, time to annoy you guys now
[03:41] <ogra> bbl
[03:45] <Mithrandir> Robot101: fsvo discussion.  It seems quite slow.
[03:47] <Robot101> Mithrandir: well, we kinda discussed it already.. 
[03:47] <Mithrandir> care to drop me the log?
[03:47] <zul> heylo
[03:48] <Robot101> Mithrandir: http://pastebin.com/601334
[03:49] <Mithrandir> Robot101: cheers
[03:52] <Mithrandir> Robot101: ok, so not much interesting really, more "would it be possible".
[03:52] <Mithrandir> Robot101: I'm not sure what to use for the actual communication, pondering X properties, but that's evil too.
[03:53] <Robot101> Mithrandir: if we are going to talk about it --> #dbus :)
[04:37] <thep> Kamion, Thai patches for console-tools and console-data are done.
[04:37] <Kamion> in malone?
[04:38] <thep> http://linux.thai.net/~thep/ubuntu/debs/
[04:38] <thep> source is under source/*
[04:39] <thep> console-tools is patched for Thai keysyms.
[04:40] <thep> Then, console-data provides the keyboard layout based on the keysyms. So, it also recommends the corresponding version of console-tools
[04:47] <bddebian> Hey folks.  I'm trying to install Flight-5 server install on a Compaq Proliant ML350 and I get the following:  ACPI:  Looking for DSDT... Not found!  And it's hung.  Any ideas?
[04:55] <Kamion> mdz: second iteration of debconf escape patch checked in upstream - just asking joeyh to re-review it now
[04:55] <tseng> Kamion: hm gtk-sharp didnt get demoted
[04:56] <Kamion> tseng: hm I didn't get round to it
[04:56] <tseng> Kamion: no problem.
[04:56] <mdz> Kamion: ok
[04:58] <Kamion> tseng: I have to go to the hardware store 
[04:58] <Kamion> just now, but I'll look when I get back
[05:00] <doko> Mithrandir, Kamion: booting on powerpc, I get a kernel panic: RAMDISK: ran out of compressed data
[05:00] <doko> up to date dapper
[05:01] <tseng> Kamion: hey, thanks alot.
[05:01] <Mithrandir> doko: cd boot?
[05:03] <doko> Mithrandir: no, just updated an existing installation
[05:03] <Mithrandir> doko: hmm, sounds like your initramfs is broken, then
[05:05] <doko> Mithrandir: which script does create the initramfs? from which maintainer script?
[05:05] <CarlFK> doko: does PPC have something like ramdisk_size=16098?
[05:06] <Mithrandir> doko: update-initramfs, the kernel
[05:07] <ogra> doko, postinst of linux-image-$(uname -r) calls update-initramfs
[05:07] <ogra> iirc
[05:09] <doko> Mithrandir: hmm, the script doesn't check for file system full?
[05:09] <Mithrandir> doko: no idea.
[05:09] <nate_> dapper....upgrade...taking....forever
[05:09] <Mithrandir> doko: (I have no idea why you're asking me; I haven't hacked those scripts at all, it's infinity-land)
[05:09] <ogra> doko, youre a dev, youre supposed to have enough diskspace :P
[05:10] <jsgotangco> lol
[05:14] <CarlFK> I think middle click isn't working on yesterdays dapper.
[05:18] <pitti> Keybuk: hi
[05:18] <pitti> Keybuk: is there a modern counterpart for /proc/bus/usb/devices? or just pick the devices out of sysfs manually?
[05:19] <pitti> Keybuk: gnome-pilot is currently broken (bug 25653), and changuing /proc to /dev is not a biggie, but it reads /p/b/u/devices, too
[05:19] <Ubugtu> malone bug 25653 in gnome-pilot "Synchronization with Palm Zire31 not working." [Normal,Needs info]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/25653
[05:19] <bddebian> Heya tseng, long time no "see"
[05:19] <tseng> bddebian: yeah really
[05:19] <sladen> ogra: it now fades out (1second) and then immediately jumps back to the desktop and 0.1 seconds later the g-p-m adjusts the backlight brightness
[05:20] <ogra> sladen, but you dont have constant screensaving approaches after you unlocked it ?
[05:20] <ogra> i.e. it cares for user action ? 
[05:21] <sladen> ogra: bollocks does it
[05:21] <ogra> hmm
[05:21] <ogra> Mithrandir ?? ^^
[05:22] <Mithrandir> ogra: no, I haven't seen it today.
[05:22] <ogra> good ... so one special case less :)
[05:22] <sladen> Ooooh, 10second-fade.  Flash to full desktop.  1second-fade, flash to full desktop, g-p-m backlight adjustment ...it keeps getting better
[05:23] <Treenaks> sladen: the crack is kicking in?
[05:24] <ogra> i'v seen it on other systems though
[05:24] <ogra> i wonder whats so spethial about me that i dont encounter *any* of the bugs i get reported
[05:24] <sladen> ogra: if it's any consolation, it is happening /less/ today.  eg.  I didn't get anything until 5minutes ago
[05:26] <sladen> I like the flash is the gamma is being ramped down to zero, the action being cancelled (by $something) and then being reverted to normal gamma, followed the power-manger lowing the brightness
[05:26] <sladen> s/I like/I think/
[05:27] <ogra> yeah, the power manager should just grab the value the user has set and store that 
[05:28] <ogra> i see the dimming in the lock screen though ...
[05:28] <ogra> finally one bug i can reproduce
[05:44] <ploum> seb128: is this chan a good place to talk ? ;-)
[05:45] <seb128> ploum: no
[05:45] <seb128> ploum: try #ubuntu-desktop rather :)
[05:53] <highvoltage> Znarl: i can't ping to outside from humboldt, i created a ticket for this in RT, is that OK?
[05:55] <Znarl> highvoltage : humboldt does not respond to ICMP, firewall restriction.  Is that a problem for you?
[05:56] <highvoltage> Znarl: nope. the problem is that i can't wget http://drupal.com/file from humboldt
[05:56] <pitti> Kamion: can you please ack dhcp3 for breezy-updates? (bug 26645, ack'ed by mdz)
[05:56] <highvoltage> Znarl: so i tried to ping drupal.org and ubuntu.com FROM humboldt, and it didn't work
[05:56] <Ubugtu> malone bug 26645 in dhcp3 dhcp3-client "dhclient prevents itself from accessing its own leases file" [Normal,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/26645
[05:57] <highvoltage> Znarl: it worked before, so i assumed something wasn't right?
[05:57] <Znarl> highvoltage : /msg-ing you.
[05:57] <highvoltage> Znarl: ok
[05:57] <Kamion> I wish mdz would learn how to work soyuz instead ;-)
[05:57] <Kamion> I'll look at it now
[06:01] <Kamion> pitti: done
[06:01] <pitti> thank you
[06:05] <desrt> it's funny.  i look at my /ignore list in irssi
[06:05] <sivang> rehi all
[06:06] <desrt> it contains 4 items.  all of them are lilo as freenode has changed its hostmask format policy of the week
[06:07] <CarlFK> yesterday's dapper install - the middle button on my ps2 mouse isn't working, middle on a usb mouse does. - ps2 middle click on a link in FF doesn't do anything, usb opens link in new tab.  ps2 mouse on an older box works fine.  this isn't quite enough for a bug report - what should I look at?
[06:08] <Kamion> mvo: there are still some wrong font paths in thaifonts-scalable
[06:09] <Kamion> look through the .diff.gz for X11R6 ...
[06:10] <Kamion> mvo: also repacking an .orig.tar.gz just to remove CVS directories is generally considered bad
[06:10] <Kamion> the CVS directories are harmless so it's just unnecessary deviation
[06:20] <mvo> Kamion: ok, thanks
[06:20] <mvo> Kamion: I will remember next time. or should I redo it ?
[06:21] <Kamion> mvo: nah, already accepted
[06:21] <Kamion> (the rest was OK)
[06:25] <doko> pitti: is pkg_striptranslations inactive?
[06:26] <pitti> doko: no, it works fine, why?
[06:27] <doko> pitti: nevermind, I did look in the wrong package :-/
[06:29] <Kamion> tseng: done
[06:31] <doko> pitti: are you sure, that you save the GSI*.sdf files as well?
[06:31] <pitti> ah, heh
[06:31] <pitti> if [ "$srcname" = "openoffice.org2" ] ; then
[06:31] <pitti>     # grab sdf files from OO.o2
[06:31] <pitti>     find debian/ -name "*.sdf" -exec install -D -m 644 '{}' "$tmp/source/{}" \;
[06:31] <pitti> fi
[06:31] <pitti> doko: spot the bug :)
[06:31] <doko> pitti!
[06:32] <fabbione> pitti: hey dude...
[06:32] <pitti> doko: just 'openoffice.org' source package is right, I assume?
[06:32] <doko> pitti: yes
[06:32] <fabbione> pitti: :)
[06:33] <fabbione> pitti: i need your hal fu ....
[06:33] <bddebian> Damnit, boot: server acpi=off and it still hangs :-(
[06:33] <fabbione> pitti: the daemon dies with exit 1 on sparc as soon as it forks
[06:33] <fabbione> pitti: and i can't understand why...
[06:33] <fabbione> pitti: how can i enable DEBUG of death?
[06:33] <pitti> doko: fix uploaded
[06:34] <doko> pitti: so I should ask infinity when it's installed on the buildd's
[06:34] <pitti> fabbione: sudo hald --verbose=yes --daemon=no 2>&1 | tee hal.txt
[06:34] <pitti> doko: that happens as soon as it's in the archive; AFAIUI the buildds now auto-update themselves
[06:34] <fabbione> pitti: roger that!
[06:34] <desrt> pitti; this ejectable patch you applied to drivemount doesn't make sense
[06:35] <pitti> desrt: hm, I don't remember that
[06:35] <desrt>   * Add debian/patches/15_gnomevfs_query_eject.patch:
[06:35] <desrt>  -- Martin Pitt <martin.pitt@ubuntu.com>  Fri,  3 Mar 2006 14:22:54 +0100
[06:35] <pitti> ah, this one
[06:35] <pitti> desrt: why not?
[06:35] <desrt> ejectable in this sense means 'the device needs to be (USB) ejected on unmount'
[06:35] <fabbione> pitti: ok.. what i am looking for? or do you want that file?
[06:35] <desrt> or, it can mean this.
[06:36] <pitti> desrt: right, that's what it's supposed to do
[06:36] <pitti> fabbione: where does it crash?
[06:36] <desrt> if 'eject' appears in the UI i think that word should solely be reserved for optical drives and the like
[06:36] <desrt> pitti; drivemount applet is offering to eject my mp3 player, for example... quite odd
[06:36] <pitti> sivang: get a coffee, dude :)
[06:36] <pitti> desrt: but we want that, since e. g. iPods need to be ejected
[06:36] <sivang> pitti: yeah, last time I got an instant soup :)
[06:37] <fabbione> pitti: it appears to crash scanning block devices..
[06:37] <desrt> pitti; they should just be auto-ejected on unmount...
[06:37] <pitti> fabbione: a gdb trace would rock as well, then please send me hal.txt and the backtrace
[06:37] <sivang> pitti: I even once forgot I was pushing in the backgorund, and continued hacking, then tried to commit while push in progress. boom!
[06:37] <seb128> desrt: upstream does the distinction but in a ugly way instead of using the hal property,no?
[06:38] <desrt> seb128; ya.  we say "is it a cd/dvd/zip/jaz/etc"
[06:38] <seb128> so what's wrong to rely on the hal property rather than using special case?
[06:38] <desrt> pitti; maybe the word "disconnected" would be a better choice if we could somehow do it
[06:38] <Kamion> fabbione: can you get keepalived built against openssl 0.9.8?
[06:38] <desrt> seb128; the meaning of 'eject' in the HAL property isn't the same as the meaning of eject in drivemount applet
[06:39] <pitti> desrt: right, that would just break translations, that's why I didn't want to change the string; especially not deviate from upstream
[06:39] <doko> mvo: ping
[06:39] <fabbione> pitti: people:~fabbione/hal.txt but i can't gdb it.. long story..
[06:39] <desrt> seb128; often the ejectable property in HAL means "please run 'eject -s' (disconnect scsi device) when you're done with me"
[06:39] <fabbione> Kamion: i think so.. i will try
[06:40] <fabbione> Kamion: how urgent is it?
[06:40] <sivang> fabbione: enevtually I used the vesa driver, as this is a VMWare sever machine (the amd64 at work). I might check to see what went wrong there sometime if you would provide the debugging starting point, if that X600 bug source is not yet know.
[06:40] <mvo> doko: pong
[06:40] <seb128> desrt: we should always use "remove" or somethin neutral so, users don't care about unmount or eject
[06:40] <Kamion> fabbione: it's uninstallable on ubuntu-server CDs, that's all
[06:41] <fabbione> Kamion: ok thanks
[06:41] <fabbione> Kamion: will look at it
[06:41] <pitti> fabbione: hm, the output doesn't help too much; I'm afraid I do need a bt
[06:41] <desrt> seb128; i like 'disconnect' for pluggable stuff... and 'eject' is fine for things that actually eject (like cds)
[06:41] <fabbione> pitti: we can't bt there ...
[06:41] <pitti> fabbione: oh?
[06:41] <desrt> seb128; note: it might make sense to be able to either disconnect a firewire cd drive -or- eject the cd inside it
[06:41] <fabbione> pitti: gdb isn't very very happy on sparc.. not with all software at least
[06:41] <desrt> seb128; so they really are different ideas
[06:41] <fabbione> pitti: and hal is one of the bad boys
[06:42] <seb128> desrt: right
[06:42] <pitti> fabbione: gdb gdb hald :)
[06:42] <fabbione> pitti: i think the error appears only when daemonizing
[06:42] <pitti> fabbione: ah, you mean it actually ran when you started it manually?
[06:42] <fabbione> 18:42:33.815 [E]  hald_dbus.c:3258: dbus_bus_get(): Failed to get foreground console
[06:42] <fabbione> Sent kill to 5653
[06:42] <fabbione> Sent kill to 5652
[06:42] <desrt> seb128; also might make sense to unmount without ejecting.... but this is a questionable use case
[06:43] <pitti> fabbione: ah, so it didn't crash when you debugged it?
[06:43] <seb128> desrt: we already had that bug and it got rejected upstream
[06:43] <desrt> seb128; what bug?
[06:43] <seb128> desrt: arguing that unmounting is not useful since apps using the drive should be able to do that without asking you
[06:43] <seb128> desrt: "please provide an unmount action next to eject"
[06:43] <desrt> seb128; ah yes.  or the kernel fixed to not mess them up because it's mounted
[06:43] <fabbione> pitti: it's weird...
[06:44] <fabbione> pitti: it did exit.. 
[06:44] <desrt> seb128; i do believe that 'unmount' is not a useful user-visible action
[06:44] <pitti> desrt: *agree*
[06:45] <fabbione> pitti: ok thanks.. i am going to play with it a bit more.. if i won't success you will have root access :)
[06:45] <desrt> i guess this is something to work on for edgy
[06:45] <desrt> once gnome translation opens up again
[06:45] <pitti> fabbione: heh ;) well, maybe I can find sth out with strace, or add some more debug statements
[06:46] <pitti> desrt: right, the UI should just have 'Remove'
[06:46] <desrt> pitti; no.  see example above for why this is bad.
[06:46] <desrt> pitti; eject and disconnect really ought to be separate
[06:47] <pitti> desrt: ah, right
[06:47] <desrt> pitti; ejecting and disconnecting my external cdrom drive are entirely different things
[06:47] <pitti> true
[06:47] <fabbione> pitti: ok :)
[06:48] <pitti> desrt: but you don't usually tell the UI that you disconnect the drive, do you? you just unplug it
[06:48] <ogra> then you could just unplug ...
[06:48] <pitti> ogra: that's something different
[06:48] <pitti> ogra: that won't ever work
[06:48] <sivang> pitti: btw, seeing this discussion, how would I got about mounting and unmounting media/devices from a program that doesn't want to depedend on gnome-vfs ? exec the pmount command with the required args as a subprocess ?
[06:48] <desrt> pitti; the idea is that many scsi devices require to be disconnected before being unplugged
[06:48] <desrt> pitti; this is why we must 'eject' ipods in the first place (even though we've already unmounted them)
[06:48] <pitti> ogra: there might be apps still accessing the drive, etc; the user needs to tell the OS that it wants to remove a drive
[06:49] <ogra> pitti, i meant a *really* low level ...
[06:50] <desrt> anyway.  gotta run to school.
[06:50] <desrt> peace
[06:51] <ogra> pitti, windows solves the "apps accessing the device" apparently somehow
[06:51] <pitti> highvoltage: dapper+1 apparently
[06:52] <highvoltage> pitti: i know he said that we can quote him on that, and other people said yes, i can, but that doesn't mean it's true :)
[06:52] <pitti> right :)
[06:54] <jdub> highvoltage: i think we've satisfactorily seeded his brain on it by now :-)
[06:55] <highvoltage> jdub: <g>
[06:55] <ogra> jdub, be careful, if we dont call it edgy he might be confuzed and do no work at all for it ...
[06:57] <pitti> jdub: I assume the similarity to Etch is nothing but a pure coincidence? :)
[06:57] <jdub> pitti: yeah
[06:57] <jdub> pitti: though doubly funny if you ask japanese speakers about 'etch' and 'edgy'
[07:05] <mdz> Kamion: you mean that he will not be able to attend the TB meeting tonight?
[07:05] <mdz> (if not, there won't be one)
[07:06] <Kamion> he said he would attend the TB meeting
[07:06] <Kamion> Keybuk: are you going to be around for this town hall meeting?
[07:06] <dholbach> pitti: sayonara? arigato? :-)
[07:07] <pitti> dholbach: I don't know the second one
[07:07] <dholbach> "thanks"
[07:08] <doko> mdz: is there a chance that somebody at the sprint can check scim input methods with OOo?
[07:09] <mdz> doko: yes, please talk to abelcheung about it
[07:09] <doko> mdz: on amd64 as well?
[07:10] <doko> mdz: is there an extra channel for the sprint?
[07:10] <mdz> doko: the server here is an amd64 but it is running 32-bit for vmware I think
[07:10] <mdz> doko: no, not that I know of. this channel is fine
[07:13] <elmo> there's still an amd64 install on that box, you'd just have to boot off the first SATA, rather than the second, FWIW
[07:22] <highvoltage> 322 nicks! is that a record for ubuntu-meeting?
[07:46] <bddebian> Where's the best place to ask about a Flight-5 server install problem besides #ubuntu+1?  Is ubuntu-devel the appropriate place?
[07:46] <pitti> malone would be :)
[07:46] <slomo> infinity, lamont: please give-back gnome-user-share on ppc
[07:46] <pitti> unless you need to discuss various approaches and so on, which is on topic here
[07:49] <bddebian> pitti: Well I could use an approach.  I have tried acpi=off pci=noacpi DEBCONF_DEBUG=5 BOOT_DEBUG=2 and all I get is a hang :-(
[07:50] <pitti> bddebian: baad - anyone in #ubuntu-kernel who could help maybe?
[07:50] <Mithrandir> bddebian: noapic?
[07:51] <bddebian> Mithrandir: Haven't tried that, I will
[07:52] <netzmeister> bddebian:  what's your problem? buggy interrupt controller?
[07:52] <bddebian> netzmeister: I don't know because it just hangs with no output.  BUt this machine has been a Windows 2003 server for ages with no problems so I don't think it's hardware
[07:53] <siretart> is there already a name for dapper+1?
[07:53] <netzmeister> siretart:  dapper+1 ! :-D
[07:53] <bddebian> netzmeister: It hangs right after freeing initrd
[07:54] <netzmeister> bddebian:  post the last lines before it hangs..
[07:54] <netzmeister> ah k
[07:54] <siretart> Edgy Elephant?
[07:55] <netzmeister> siretart:  yes
[07:59] <bddebian> Mithrandir: noapic didn't help :-(
[08:00] <bddebian> pitti: Should I ask in #ubuntu-kernel?
[08:02] <pitti> bddebian: yes, worth a try
[08:02] <bddebian> pitti: OK, thx
[08:05] <netzmeister> bddebian:  i think with no information nobody can help you..
[08:07] <bddebian> netzmeister: No information?  What else can I give you?
[08:08] <netzmeister> hmm let's see..
[08:09] <bddebian> And I didn't mean that to be sarcastic if it came off that way
[08:11] <bddebian> It's a Compaq Proliant ML350 1Ghz with 512Mb RAM and a Compaq Array controller.
[08:11] <netzmeister> k
[08:11] <netzmeister> have you tried another kernel?
[08:11] <netzmeister> (recovery)
[08:11] <bddebian> Hmm, no
[08:11] <bddebian> I'd try breezy but I don't have HOURS to pull another iso today :-)
[08:12] <netzmeister> try the recovery kernel..
[08:12] <bddebian> OK, will do thx
[08:12] <netzmeister> np..
[08:12] <netzmeister> I'll wait.. ;-)
[08:13] <Keybuk> Kamion: no :)  I'd popped out to the shops before the TB meeting :)
[08:13] <Kamion> ok
[08:16] <carlos> pitti, seb128: So I just got my branch merged
[08:16] <bddebian> netzmeister: Same hang :-(
[08:16] <carlos> that means that tomorrow, jordi and I will be able to start approving translation imports
[08:17] <ogra> Keybuk, so you missed the decision that you have to fix up dapper in the 6 weeks delay while we others go on holiday :P
[08:17] <sivang> hehe
[08:17] <sivang> ogra: bare with him :)
[08:17] <netzmeister> hm thats interessting..
[08:17] <Keybuk> ogra: *shrug* I booked my holiday first <g>
[08:17] <ogra> :P
[08:17] <Keybuk> wouldn't mind that too much tbh, I've had not much to do this past week
[08:17] <netzmeister> you have a clean install of breezy?
[08:17] <Keybuk> udev is annoyingly working
[08:18] <Keybuk> and n-m doesn't work, but is impossible to fix in the time allowed
[08:18] <ogra> Keybuk, even with +6 weeks ? 
[08:18] <Kamion> Keybuk: on udev, I'd really like some investigation of that devfs helper bug
[08:18] <bddebian> netzmeister: No, I have all Dapper machines but I guess it's time to download breezy :-)
[08:18] <Kamion> we've had like ten reports of it
[08:18] <netzmeister> ah okay..
[08:18] <Keybuk> Kamion: I've been doing that today, and I can't figure it
[08:19] <Kamion> can you reproduce it?
[08:19] <Keybuk> yeah, I *reported* it :)
[08:19] <Kamion> oh :)
[08:19] <netzmeister> bddebian:  no why download breezy. Dapper comes in a few weeks..
[08:19] <Keybuk> do you run udevplug many times?
[08:19] <Amaranth> Keybuk: n-m almosts works for me, i blame the bcm43xx driver
[08:19] <Kamion> yeah, once per hw-detect
[08:19] <bddebian> netzmeister: Not if I can't boot it :-)
[08:19] <Keybuk> I *think* you get one new floppy device per hw-detect run
[08:19] <Keybuk> which would make sense
[08:19] <Kamion> that matches what I seemed to be seeing
[08:20] <Kamion> there'd be a udevplug run or two in partman as well, I think
[08:20] <Kamion> basically I was calling it fairly liberally when I needed new devices to be available, since you told me I could :)
[08:20] <Keybuk> yeah, and I think what happens is that because each run causes a new "floppy ADD" event, that script gets run
[08:20] <Keybuk> so each new run gets a newly enumerated floppy device symlink
[08:21] <netzmeister> bddebian:  and there is really no output.. i can't believe it.. Kernel and no output.. :-)
[08:21] <Kamion> can it just store some state somewhere about which devices it's already seen?
[08:21] <Kamion> or even grep the existing symlinks
[08:21] <Keybuk> there's the udevdb state
[08:21] <Keybuk> there's udevd code to stop that happening though
[08:21] <Keybuk> that's what seems to be not working :)
[08:21] <bddebian> netzmeister: Well I mean I get no output on the hang, even with debug on.  I get all the normal bootup output right to the point of "Freeing initrd RAM..."
[08:22] <Keybuk> a "do we already have a symlink" check at the top of the script is a sufficient fix for us
[08:23] <Keybuk> you know what?  I'm an idiot
[08:23] <netzmeister> bddebian:  and before the line is nothing unusual? 
[08:23] <Keybuk> I just looked at the code again, and it's now glarying obvious why it doesn't work
[08:23] <Keybuk> Kamion: excellent reminder timing, clearly my brain is now in the right gear :p
[08:24] <bddebian> netzmeister: No, not that I can see.  I do get:  "ACPI: Finding DSDT Failed" or some such if I don't turn off acpi, but other than that, it looks pretty normal.
[08:25] <Kamion> heh
[08:27] <netzmeister> bddebian:  tell us your system configuration..
[08:27] <netzmeister> bddebian:  do you have a knoppix cd?
[08:27] <Keybuk> Kamion: it doesn't work because I use SYMLINK+= in the udev rule ... which means "add it to the list of existing symlinks"
[08:27] <bddebian> Hmm, not here, I don't think.  Let me go look, bbiam
[08:28] <Keybuk> the "keep only one symlink" code only affects SYMLINK= :)
[08:28] <Kamion> aha!
[08:30] <raphink> anyone knows what /usr/bin/lsprop is for on ppc ?
[08:30] <raphink> there's no man, no --help|-h switches
[08:30] <raphink> and no comment in the code
[08:30] <raphink> and it's an old app from 1998
[08:31] <raphink> :s
[08:31] <crimsun> http://penguinppc.org/dev/
[08:31] <Keybuk> what does it do if you run it? :)
[08:32] <raphink> $ lsprop dirs
[08:32] <raphink> dirs             7362696e 0a757372 2f62696e 0a657463 2f696e69 742e640a
[08:32] <raphink> things like this
[08:32] <raphink> or longer
[08:32] <Kamion> it's for parsing stuff in /proc/device-tree/
[08:32] <Keybuk> sounds like the OF device tree
[08:32] <Kamion> really useful actually, I didn't know about that and had been looking at the files with vim ;-)
[08:32] <raphink> is this useful?
[08:32] <netzmeister> raphink:  checksum of the directorys?
[08:32] <Kamion> cjwatson@cairhien:/proc/device-tree$ lsprop compatible
[08:32] <Kamion> compatible       "PowerBook5,2"
[08:32] <Kamion>                  "MacRISC3"
[08:32] <raphink> netzmeister: not checksums no
[08:32] <Kamion> hell yes
[08:32] <Kamion>                  "Power Macintosh"
[08:33] <raphink> Kamion: I was about to write manpages for this soft
[08:33] <Kamion> it's a bit like udevinfo
[08:33] <raphink> but there's not even a -h|--help
[08:33] <Kamion> if you don't understand it, documenting it is probably not a good plan :)
[08:34] <raphink> all I know is that when run without an argument it runs itself on all files in the current dir
[08:34] <Kamion> I agree it's poorly (i.e. not) documented
[08:34] <raphink> Kamion: yes I guess
[08:34] <raphink> Kamion: if it's useful, I believe it should be documented
[08:34] <Kamion> cd into /proc/device-tree/ somewhere and that behaviour is a lot more useful
[08:34] <Kamion> I'm not arguing, but it's a developer debugging tool so it's not too urgent
[08:34] <raphink> ic
[08:35] <raphink> I am to remove backlight from the powerpc-utils package though
[08:35] <raphink> there's no man either, and the -h says it's obsolete
[08:35] <raphink> and should not be used anymore
[08:35] <raphink> so I guess if a program claims to be obsolete it's not worth keeping
[08:36] <bddebian> netzmeister: Apparently all my Breezy/knoppix/etc CD's are at home so I'll have to try tomorrow, thanks for your time!
[08:36] <slomo> infinity, lamont: please give-back gnome-user-share on ppc and liferea on amd64/ppc, thanks :)
[08:37] <netzmeister> bddebian:  no problem. cu tomorrow..
[08:39] <Kamion> raphink: I'm not sure this is an ideal time to go on a rampage of removing obsolete stuff, personally
[08:40] <raphink> Kamion: well I went into this since I saw there was no manpages for this
[08:40] <Kamion> but I guess it's up to you
[08:40] <raphink> searching for the options to write a manpages
[08:40] <raphink> I saw this was obsolete
[08:40] <raphink> so i'm adding manpages for fnset
[08:41] <raphink> and at the same time removing backligth from the same package
[08:41] <Kamion> yes, I'm just saying that feature freeze is a poor time to remove stuff
[08:41] <raphink> hmm ok
[08:41] <Kamion> because we have a suboptimal amount of time to put it back if it turns out that somebody needed it after all
[08:41] <raphink> even things that are obviously obsolete and whose -h switch reports to another app?
[08:42] <raphink>   *************         WARNING         ************
[08:42] <raphink>   **  backlight is obsolete, please use fblevel   **
[08:42] <raphink>   **************************************************
[08:42] <raphink> taht's what you get running backlight -h
[08:42] <raphink> but I get your point, doesn't hurt to keep it so far ;)
[08:48] <natroll> hmm, someone messin with the dapper repos?
[08:49] <natroll> i can't download http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/dapper/universe/source/Sources.gz
[08:50] <Nafallo> natroll: maybe the mirror is syncing right now? :-)
[08:50] <natroll> i dunno, was just mentioning it in case there is an issue
[08:57] <sivang> pitti: I have finally put the package on http://muse.19inch.net/~sivan/upbackup/ , (re what we talked last night) let me know if you prefer I'd emailed you or for any other comments regarding the package.
[08:58] <bddebian> Wow a breezy download is MUCH faster than cdimage.  Maybe I can test breezy here at work today..
[08:59] <sivang> pitti: also, I remind, this is for universe NOT main :)
[08:59] <netzmeister> bddebian:  that sounds fine..
[09:01] <sivang> pitti: crap, hold on, one mistake there , I'm fixing now.
[09:05] <Surak> hello, where was happening the discussion about dapper's delay?
[09:07] <bddebian> Surak: #ubuntu-meeting afaik
[09:07] <dholbach> Surak: yes and it's TB meeting now
[09:07] <enyc> TB ??
[09:08] <Surak> enyc: technical board? 
[09:08] <enyc> hrrm kk
[09:23] <bddebian> Is there a wiki for setting up a repository? (Not LocalAptGet)
[09:29] <zyga> hello
[09:30] <tseng> bddebian: man apt-ftparchive
[09:31] <tseng> bddebian: apt-ftparchive packages .
[09:31] <tseng> bddebian: gzip -9 Packages
[09:31] <tseng> apt-ftparchive sources .
[09:31] <tseng> gzip -9 Sources
[09:32] <bddebian> tseng: Thx :-)
[09:37] <jbailey> bddebian: http://people.ubuntu.com/~jbailey/snapshot/genarchive.sh if you ever need it again. =)
[09:37] <bddebian> jbailey: Thanks man
[09:38] <tseng> jbailey: fancy
[09:39] <bddebian> jbailey: Got a sec for a quick C++ question?
[09:39] <jbailey> bddebian: Depends how hard the question is.
[09:40] <bddebian> jbailey: I'm trying to kill PATH_MAX but I'm using C syntax in a C++ app:  http://www2.bddebian.com:8000/packages/qt-x11-free/qt-x11-free-3.3.5.diff
[09:49] <jbailey> bddebian: Can you tell me what problem you're having?
[09:49] <jbailey> bddebian: It'll be easier than disecting it bit by bit.
[09:50] <bddebian> jbailey: Trying to eliminate the use of PATH_MAX.  http://www2.bddebian.com:8000/packages/qt-x11-free/qt-x11-free-3.3.5.diff
[09:50] <jbailey> Yes.  That tells me what problem you're trying to solve.  You have a patch.  I assume that you're showing it to me because it doesn't work?
[09:51] <bddebian> Well it "works" but I don't think I am necessarily doing it properly.  Especially for qfileinfo_unix.cpp
[10:31] <mjg59> Kamion: Do you have access to the morgue?
[10:32] <bddebian> Damn, netzmeister left?
[10:36] <Kyral> time to give Flight 5 Espresso a whirl...as soon as the ISO is finished burning
[10:36] <bddebian> Well Breezy pukes just like Dapper for me on my server install :'-(
[10:37] <Kyral> heh
[10:37] <Kyral> Well, when I get back to school I'm gonna reinstall clean
[10:37] <Kyral> I have so much crap laying around from stuff like compiling XGL from scratch and whatnot
[10:38] <Kyral> tthank god for my seperate /home
[10:38] <wasabi> Why's it matter?
[10:38] <wasabi> *nix isn't going to get unstable on you because of it. ;0
[10:39] <Kyral> Actually its because something royally borked up XFCE and GNOME
[10:39] <Kyral> and yes I filed a bug :P
[10:42] <Kyral> But its been about time lol
[10:43] <Kyral> I should really just checkinstall that crap *DUCKS!*
[10:47] <sivang> pitti: still here?
[10:47] <pitti> sivang: yes
[10:47] <dholbach> good night guys
[10:47] <sivang> night dholbach :)
[10:48] <sivang> pitti: I'm ready, same location http://muse.19inch.net/~sivan/upbackup/ :) (Had to write a MANIFEST.in file to cater for proper source distribution build)
[10:49] <pitti> added to my TODO list
[10:50] <sivang> pitti: thank you :)
[11:03] <pitti> SCNR, but it's fitting today: https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-test-list/2005-December/msg00583.html
[11:04] <Burgwork> pitti, SCNR?
[11:04] <pitti> Burgwork: Sorry, Could Not Resist
[11:04] <Burgwork> ah
[11:05] <bddebian> pitti: :-)
[11:05] <Riddell> maswan: ping
[11:05] <seb128> somebody good with alternatives around?
[11:06] <seb128> how to tell them to change the target?
[11:07] <bddebian> update-alternatives?
[11:07] <seb128> like    "update-alternatives --install /some/path alternative-name /stuff/to/register 45"
[11:07] <sivang> pitti: hehe
[11:07] <seb128> I want to change "/some/path"
[11:10] <bddebian> seb128: You want to change the link, not the path?
[11:10] <sivang> bddebian: checking the manpage, I see generic name comes before the symlink
[11:11] <sivang> bddebian: so I guess Seb's trying to change the generic name?
[11:11] <bddebian>  <link> <name> <path>
[11:11] <seb128> right
[11:12] <sivang> I got confused: --install genname symlink  altern  priority , genname being refered to as the "master link"
[11:13] <seb128> bddebian: issue is that:
[11:13] <seb128>     update-alternatives \
[11:13] <seb128>       --install /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/icons/default/index.theme \
[11:13] <seb128>       x-cursor-theme /usr/share/themes/Human/cursor.theme 40
[11:13] <seb128> bddebian: and now it has moved away from /usr/X11R6
[11:13] <bddebian> Ugh
[11:13] <seb128> bddebian: so I want to relocate it no a new place 
[11:13] <sivang> seb128: --set looks to be doing the same as --config, but is scriptable
[11:13] <sivang> seb128: maybe it helps?
[11:14] <seb128> sivang: --set is to pick an option
[11:14] <seb128> I don't want to pick an option
[11:14] <lemsx1> ssl-cert bug #34962
[11:14] <sivang> ah right! sorry
[11:14] <Ubugtu> malone bug 34962 in ssl-cert "chgrp/chmod failed to change non-existing keys (dapper)" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/34962
[11:14] <bddebian> Probably have to do a remove and a --install?
[11:14] <seb128> bddebian: I need to remove-all so ...
[11:14] <seb128> bddebian: and what if other packages were registered?
[11:15] <sivang> bddebian: good to see oyu're back, btw
[11:15] <bddebian> Heh.  :-)
[11:16] <sivang> bddebian: less busy with your work now?
[11:16] <bddebian> A little
[11:16] <sivang> cool
[11:20] <bddebian> seb128: What happens if you just do --install?  Does it fail?
[11:21] <seb128> bddebian: if I "update-alternatives --install /usr/share.... -cursor-theme /usr/share/theme/other_theme.... 45" 
[11:21] <seb128> bddebian: it doesn't create /usr/share... but still use /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/icons/default/index.theme
[11:22] <bddebian> Whacky
[11:23] <bddebian> Just manually symlink them? :-)
[11:23] <seb128> porky
[11:23] <seb128> I'm considering using a new alternative for it :)
[11:24] <bddebian> What if you just rm the /usr/share... Then --install?
[11:25] <seb128> what do you mean?
[11:25] <seb128> I want to create that /usr/share, there is nothing to rm
[11:26] <seb128> maybe I should do a  if [ -L /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/icons/default/index.theme ] ; do update-alternatives --remove-all x-cursor-theme; done"
[11:26] <seb128> and then doing my --install
[11:27] <bddebian> Seems reasonable
[11:27] <seb128> let's do that so
[11:27] <seb128> I hate alternatives anyway :)
[11:28] <seb128> where is the best place to rm ?
[11:28] <seb128> to "update-alternatives --remove-all x-cursor-theme" I mean
[11:28] <seb128> the preinst or in the postinst before the --install?
[11:34] <bddebian> That I don't know.
[11:34] <bddebian> I gotta head home, good luck :-)
[11:35] <seb128> thank you
[11:44] <sivang> night all