[12:11] ompaul, you still working on the FAQ? [12:11] ompaul, oh, wait, did I already move it? (am confused) [12:11] I am not, it is not moved :) [12:11] ok, hmm [12:12] after I stopped madpilot gave it a once over fixed a couple of bits and I have stayed away from it since [12:12] not sure if I can add more value [12:12] ok, I should be able to find time to look at it this week [12:13] it is not as meandering at this stage [12:14] but where to next :-) === mdke_ [n=matt@ubuntu/member/mdke] has joined #ubuntu-doc === mgalvin [n=mgalvin@ubuntu/member/mgalvin] has joined #ubuntu-doc === theCore [n=alex@Toronto-HSE-ppp3785508.sympatico.ca] has joined #ubuntu-doc [01:32] hi theCore [01:33] hi LaserJock [01:46] LaserJock: did you work on the guide? [01:47] s/k/ked/ [01:49] theCore: yeah, a bit [01:49] I think doc.ubuntu.com has what I have more or less [01:51] I didn't work on the guide, but instead on something closely related to it: packaging [01:52] cool [01:54] I trying to make a package that would configure Postfix and Fetchmail for Gmail. I'm kinda going nowhere but at least I'm trying [01:56] does ubuntu is down? [01:56] *.ubuntu.com [02:00] could be. there was an email that it was going down for a while. I can't remember when though. [02:24] nice it works! [02:24] (not the package but the config) === Burgundavia [n=corey@S0106000fb085cc63.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc [02:38] i can't belive this. http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=821554&postcount=8 [02:38] in eed to post to clarify === crimsun [i=nobody@pdpc/supporter/silver/crimsun] has joined #ubuntu-doc [03:11] mdke_: ping === Mez [n=Mez@ubuntu/member/mez] has joined #ubuntu-doc === Kyral [n=kyral@ubuntu/member/kyral] has joined #ubuntu-doc === Madpilot [n=ubuntu@ubuntu/member/madpilot] has joined #ubuntu-doc === Madpilot [n=brian@S0106000d88b9f3db.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc [04:40] theCore: hmm, i have configured fetchmail with gmail, also with postfix [04:41] theCore: nbsmtp was easier to setup than postfix, however [04:41] I'm still trying to get postfix working with smtp.gmail.com [04:42] theCore: do you want a link to a howto, i used it almost step by step [04:42] robotgeek: yeah, please [04:42] theCore: http://souptonuts.sourceforge.net/postfix_tutorial.html [04:43] LOL [04:43] same as mine [04:43] yeah, install the package ca-certificates to reduce pain and suffering [04:43] robotgeek: can't send email though [04:44] robotgeek: are you able to ? [04:44] theCore: i just use nbsmtp now. it is much easier to get working [04:45] are you using port 587? [04:45] no 995 [04:48] theCore: 995 is for fetching, not sending [04:48] for pop, basically [04:48] robotgeek: how do you deal with the mailing list ? [04:49] theCore: i setup procmail, i don't use it now, however [04:49] http://robotgeek.org/wiki/Main/PerfectEmailSetup . i am working on it :) [04:51] thanks for the tips [04:52] robotgeek: I will probably try to improve it [04:53] theCore: okay, let me give you a edit password then :) [04:53] oh :) [04:54] robotgeek: do you have my email ? [04:54] theCore: i /noticed you, check your server window === bhuvan [n=bhuvan@ubuntu/member/bhuvan] has joined #ubuntu-doc [04:56] oh I see (boy I'm still IRC noob;) [04:56] theCore: we all are, when we start out. we learn :) [04:56] hey bhuvan [04:59] hello robotgeek === LaserJock [n=mantha@ubuntu/member/laserjock] has joined #ubuntu-doc [05:18] mdke_: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrcRules says "bad solutions such as using install-css.sh from libdvdread" (seveas said that). We however suggest that method for getting dvds to work. we should investigate [05:30] robotgeek: where? [05:31] helping: be helpful [05:33] but what doc do we recommend that? [05:33] LaserJock: in both the desktop guides [05:34] video, dvd section [05:34] I see it now [05:35] hmm, so maybe we should ask what the "correct" method is [05:36] yeah, i want to grab hold of seveas, he said that it was broken in dapper or something to that effect long time ago [05:39] robotgeek, Seveas is generally on early morning his time, about 0300 or so your time (~0100 here, Pacific Standard) [05:40] Madpilot: maybe i'll catch him on my way out [05:40] you can always /memo him and ask him to email you or the docteam list [05:41] yeah, maybe i can do that too [05:44] Could someone please sanity-check my lastest updates to UDG, the "getting to #ubuntu w/ XChat-Gnome" part? [05:44] I pinged him in -devel but I havn't got an answer [05:44] I'm not sure it's as clear as it could be, and I"m not in Dapper right now... [05:44] it's only about 5am in .nl right now [05:44] Madpilot: any reason to do XChat-Gnome over Xchat? [05:45] LaserJock, in Dapper XChat has been pushed into Universe, X-G is now in Main [05:45] frankly, I really dislike X-G, but it's there... :P [05:45] Madpilot: hmm, ok. I thought they were both in Main [05:45] XChat is in Main in Breezy, but it's not for Dapper [05:47] I see, well that at least makes sense. [05:48] I think I offended one of XChat-Gnome's developers over the weekend, by being a bit too blunt about that app's shortcomings... https://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/34715 [05:51] viva Irssi ... [05:51] bleh. XChat is a UI disaster, but IMO so is XChat-Gnome, in the opposite direction... [05:52] it's a major over-reaction to XChat's let's-let-it-all-hang-out uber-configurability [05:53] my gosh, they obviously haven't used any KDE apps [05:53] XChat isn't all that configurable [05:55] by current Gnome standards I guess it is :P [05:55] I usually like the "sane defaults" theory of Gnome, but with XChat-Gnome they've killed all the configurability without providing sane defaults... [05:56] yeah, I really have a hard time with Gnome standards. I'm not sure if I agree with it philosophically [06:00] Most of the time it works. Epiphany, SoundJuicer, Gnome-App-Install - they're all brilliant. The XChat-Gnome folks have just gone a bit overboard, I think. [06:02] to me it really just seems dumbed down. I mean they usually have pretty good defaults (better than KDE to me) but once you try to think outside their box ... [06:05] KDE always strikes me as too much an XP-clone - which I know is unfair, but that's how it feels & looks to me [06:06] yeah, in some ways it does but you can configure it to be whatever you want. that is what I like about it [06:06] but I do like the general look-n-feel of gnome [06:06] but I don't like most Gnome apps [06:07] because once I need to configure them I find I can't [06:07] there is no control [06:07] anyway, time for bed [06:07] cya guys [06:07] later === highvoltage [n=Jono@196.36.161.235] has joined #ubuntu-doc [06:18] OK, enough commits from me for one evening :P [06:18] hi highvoltage === nate_ [n=nate@68-190-90-101.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc [06:22] ok ok, maybe someone here can help, anyone know of any good docs for ubuntu's implementation of d-i and specifically the setup of preseed files? [06:25] Madpilot: that is so unfair, kde is highly configurable. xp if you want xp, os x if you want os x [06:27] robotgeek, I didn't say it was a fair impression of KDE, but it's always been mine :P [06:28] Madpilot: i thought so to intially, but now i am pretty impressed by how much i actually do with the gui, without loss of configurability [06:28] s/to/too [06:42] Mar 14 00:39:54 localhost postfix/smtp[13181] : CC8712D02BC: to=, relay=none, delay=31, status=deferred (connect to smtp.gmail.com[72.14.205.109] : Connection timed out) === dsas [n=dean@host86-129-12-140.range86-129.btcentralplus.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc === jsgotangco [n=jsg@ubuntu/member/jsgotangco] has joined #ubuntu-doc [07:16] hi jsgotangco [07:16] hey [07:16] dsas, you patch got committed w/ my commits a few hours ago [07:16] thanks madpilot [07:17] dsas, np, I was planning exactly that change already, you saved me some work [07:18] That's good, it occured to me it should be done on the way to work yesterday for some bizarre reason. [07:20] yeah, I spent last night playing with a Flight5 LiveCD and making notes for the UDG - having to install XChat-gnome was one of them [07:22] looking at things you've used Xchat-Gnome and the other use is Xchat-GNOME, shouldn't they be the same? Yours looks nicer but the other way is how it's done in the menus. [07:22] Gnome in all CAPS? [07:22] hadn't noticed [07:23] ah, so it is, it's XChat-GNOME in Breezy's Add Apps too - I'll fix that later, I guess [07:24] some applications have the information on starting them in the file, others are defined in ubuntu/menus/C/, should i move all apps into ubuntu/menus/C ? [07:26] if you really want to - I've been doing the new ones I add, but leaving most of the rest [07:28] hmm, ok. I didn't know whether or not there was an underlying reason which meant it was something we should e [07:28] whoops, 'something we should be doing.' [07:29] dsas: thanks for the reminder :) [07:30] robotgeek: no problem, tbh I'd not looked at the kubuntu docs, so I don't know whether or not the 'problem' exists there. [07:30] as far as I can see, it's useful for two reasons: for the apps that get mentioned repeatedly (Firefox, say) and for the stuff that's likely to change before Dapper release [07:31] dsas: well, most of the stuff applies to kdg too :) [07:31] Madpilot: oh, ok. Not a priority then. [07:32] robotgeek: oh ok, I've not looked at them tbh. I've been meaning to try kubuntu since the breezy released and still haven't got round to it :) [07:32] dsas: get it now :) [07:33] robotgeek: maybe tonight, my laptop doesn't have a cd drive. I've not saw kde for about 3 years I think :) [07:34] dsas: well, i moved over to kubuntu from ubuntu. it si very nice. :) [07:39] robotgeek: hmm, I struggle to imagine not using gnome now, I was a kde fan years ago but I struggle to imagine not using gnome now. [07:39] wow, it's early. I'm repeating myself. [07:39] dsas: i mostly use cli, but all the apps i use are kde. amarok/k3b/akregator === robitaille [n=daniel@ubuntu/member/robitaille] has joined #ubuntu-doc === robitaille [n=daniel@ubuntu/member/robitaille] has joined #ubuntu-doc [08:32] robitaille, you staying up for the community meeting, or catching the 2nd one tomorrow? [08:32] I'm going to bed soon... :) [08:33] likewise, I don't work Tues. morning so I'll join the 2nd meeting @ 1000 our time [08:33] Maybe I'll lurk for the meeting tomorrow. It's not always obvious to be on IRC from work [08:34] heh, just be good at swapping desktops or alt+tab :P [08:35] irssi with grey colors looks like coding :P [08:36] I can't use irc directly from work. So I ssh into my home machine to do it. But sometimes the kids are in Windows to play games, thus I lose my irc access :) === Burgundavia is glad to have a Linux workplace [08:36] robitaille: install ssh server on windows also? [08:36] Burgundavia: I use Linux at work...government firewall blog IRC and I haven't bothered finding a way around the restriction [08:37] s/blog/block [08:37] Burgundavia, you staying up or going to the mtg from work? [08:37] robitaille: you should be able to tunnel irc through port 80, but I never got it to work when I worked for microservew [08:37] I will go to the meeting from work [08:38] i think it's a forgone conclusion, the meeting? [08:38] there are influential people on both sides [08:38] it should be interesting, regardless. Anyway, my cold virus and I need sleep. Later, all [08:38] later [08:38] I have to finish the gnome 2.14 press release [08:40] Burgundavia: I'm too lazy...I connect to home when I can, or piggyback on the university wireless via the classroom network one room up from my office. Or I simply read the logs afterward and do actual work at work :) [08:40] bah, work [08:42] pays the rent...actually I like spending my days coding in fortran [08:58] robotgeek, how is that a bad solution? [08:58] (dvdcss) [08:58] mdke_: i don't know, i have to ask seveas [08:59] robotgeek, apart from anything else, it is the recommended debian way, and is on RestrictedFormats [08:59] mdke_: yes, and it also works [08:59] indeed [09:00] I hate it when these irc people get all arrogant and dismissive :D [09:00] i was just surprised that ircrules page suggests that it is a bad solution, i have no idea why [09:00] it might just easier to edit the wiki page, but seveas usually knows what he is talking about :) [09:01] ok [09:02] i'll grab him today :) === mdke_ sighs at rob === bustacap [n=bustacap@ubuntu/member/bustacap] has joined #ubuntu-doc === ompaul [n=ompaul@ubuntu/member/ompaul] has joined #ubuntu-doc [09:19] mdke_: ping [09:20] robotgeek, yeah [09:21] http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/10208 [09:22] my conversation with seveas in #ubuntu-offtopic , just now [09:22] man [09:22] he is so arrogant [09:23] heh [09:23] i'm not ditching realplayer [09:23] anyways, that is the info we need i guess [09:23] no. [09:23] there are two solutions for realplayer, one is to install using real's binary, the other is the package [09:23] the latter is recommended on RestrictedFormats [09:24] and I also prefer dvdcss from the debian source to unofficial packages versions [09:24] if he thinks it is wrong, he can tell us why, and I'll listen [09:24] yes, but it apparently is going to go away [09:24] robotgeek, from the debian package? [09:24] yes, that is what he claims [09:24] i'd like to see evidence of that [09:24] anyway, talk later, gtg to work [09:25] haha I just got back from work [09:25] :D [09:25] I need to sleep [09:26] the Aussie/Asian SABDFL meeting is due to start in 30 mins.. [09:28] night all [09:28] night Burgundavia [09:35] hmm [09:36] mdke_: is the plain text in our FF frontpage bluish??? === rob [n=Robert@ubuntu/member/rob] has joined #ubuntu-doc [10:18] jsgotangco, black [10:18] mdke_: meeting underway [10:19] they look bluish on my lcd [10:19] probably because of the size [10:21] could be [10:21] try resizing them [10:21] its amazing how civil it is in there [10:21] robotgeek, got work to do, sorry [10:21] mdke_: oh okay, stay safe :) [10:21] its still bluish [10:21] heh [10:22] its not as black compared to google..probably the fonts [10:26] we started civil so people just became civil too [10:26] its also amazing that +m hasn't had to be used.. credit to the community I say === highvoltage [n=Jono@196.36.161.235] has joined #ubuntu-doc === manicka [n=manicka@ubuntu/member/manicka] has joined #ubuntu-doc [10:57] they need someone in meeting.... [10:57] nm [10:59] bustacap: namaan? [10:59] yep.. [10:59] :) [10:59] naaman. [11:02] please stop this thread before it becomes a mini flamewar [11:03] jsgotangco: the one on sounder? [11:03] yes [11:03] what thread is that? (URL please) [11:04] jsgotangco, its not a flamewar, I'm just offering my thoughts and someone took it to heart [11:04] point taken and you have valid arguments and i said "before" [11:05] just because I'm a member and every other joe bloggs who blogs is not doesn't mean I can't still offer constructive criticism [11:05] i agree on that, i did something like this before, but not on doco [11:05] i think its was for a11y [11:06] I didn't out right say "Ubuntu is crap", I just said that this simple thing should change, and gave reasons why [11:06] do it in en_US next time heh [11:06] kidding [11:07] nice pickup [11:12] I have a different definition of "constructive" criticism that doesn't include criticism done in a deliberately provocative and inflammatory way [11:13] its a simple question, the fact that you would get so heated about it suggests there is substance behind it === WaterSevenUb [n=WaterSev@azevedo.astro.up.pt] has joined #ubuntu-doc [11:13] its not like I'm burning flags to get my point across, as was done recently here in aus [11:14] there may or may not be substance behind it [11:14] but implying that Ubuntu doesn't care about documentation is just ridiculous [11:14] you must be able to see that [11:14] so you disagree that the use of Documentation should be encouraged to the fullest extent? [11:14] no [11:15] i disagree that you make wide and unjustified assertions [11:15] when making a simple point [11:15] the adminstrators of the web site obviously consider documentation important, just none other then the wiki existed when they first created the site [11:15] yes === ealden [n=ealden@203.76.213.221] has joined #ubuntu-doc [11:15] this legacy link needs to be changed to reflect the documentation project as a whole [11:16] you continue to misunderstand me. I'm not saying you are wrong, I'm saying that you make your point in a totally disproportionate and provocative way [11:16] thats the point I'm making, and I beleave its a relevent way of making it [11:16] yes I know [11:16] but you are wrong, it is not a relevant way of making it [11:17] the question isn't "Ubuntu doesn't care about its docs, so why should we?" the question is "Does ubuntu care about its docs?" and if it does, why does it bury it down three clicks [11:18] quite simply, I'm happy for the administrators of the web site to prove me wrong [11:18] it's not a question at all [11:18] you're saying "the missing link demonstrates that ubuntu doesn't care about documentation" [11:18] no I'm not [11:18] and that defies any logic [11:18] I'm saying "Does the missing link demonstrates that ubuntu doesn't care about documentation?" [11:18] haha [11:19] s/demonstrates/demonstrate [11:19] it's a rhetorical question and you know it, but let's leave it there [11:19] its not a statement, its a question designed to cause discussion and hopefully a solution [11:19] ok, well you've seen mine and corey's point. [11:20] your putting words into my mouth [11:20] I disagree [11:21] what, exactly, is your problem with such a question? [11:21] note I said question, not statement [11:22] if you took the time to properly read the whole article you would see infact I say that Ubuntu clearly does care, and that this link should be changed to show the average user that [11:22] putting that question implies that the answer is no. Especially since it is wholly unrelated to the point you are making. [11:22] I've read the article [11:22] but the title is more prominent than the rest of the article [11:22] that's what a title is [11:23] its kind of pointless arguing about the intent and meaning of an article with the person who wrote it, don't you think? [11:23] rob, i disagree entirely. the meaning of an article depends on the reader [11:24] it's like saying "Does Ubuntu care about its downloads?" and then making the point that there is no first level download link [11:24] it's a good point, but the question doesn't follow [11:24] re-read the second last paragraph [11:24] "We all know the opposite is true, but to the new user the Ubuntu web site is currently quite intimidating." [11:25] I've made my point on that [11:26] the "intent" of the article is clearly written in the last paragraph also [11:28] I've lost count of the amount of times I'm mentioned to users and authors of articles alike that the official docs exist and the response been one of surprise [11:33] yes, that's part of your point on the absence of the link === WaterSevenUb [n=WaterSev@azevedo.astro.up.pt] has joined #ubuntu-doc [11:40] good night mdke, nice chatting to you :) [11:41] good night === mpt [n=mpt@82.109.136.113] has joined #ubuntu-doc === highvoltage [n=Jono@196.36.161.235] has joined #ubuntu-doc [12:52] win 11 [12:55] hey documentation guys, I have a request for some documentation on creating dummy-packages [12:56] i don't know if you take requests ;) [01:00] sure we do, especially if they include the text [01:00] if you mail the list with more details, that might be the best idea [01:01] ok === manicka [n=manicka@ubuntu/member/manicka] has joined #ubuntu-doc === bustacap [n=bustacap@ubuntu/member/bustacap] has joined #ubuntu-doc [01:18] hey guys - updated UserDocumentation on the Wiki.. === jordi [n=jordi@115.Red-213-96-69.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has left #ubuntu-doc [] === enrico [n=enrico@debian/developer/enrico] has joined #ubuntu-doc === manicka [n=manicka@ubuntu/member/manicka] has joined #ubuntu-doc === jjesse [n=jjesse@mail.ftpb.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc === mgalvin [n=mgalvin@ubuntu/member/mgalvin] has joined #ubuntu-doc === manicka [n=manicka@ubuntu/member/manicka] has joined #ubuntu-doc === manicka is now known as manicka_zZzz === nagyv [n=nagyv@146.110.58.92] has joined #ubuntu-doc === mgalvin [n=mgalvin@ubuntu/member/mgalvin] has joined #ubuntu-doc === mpt [n=mpt@82.109.136.113] has joined #ubuntu-doc [03:56] mgalvin, hiya. Is there a special reason you've got screenshots in both ubuntu/images/en and ubuntu/images/C ? [03:58] mdke: when i went to commit them i looked in both of those dirs... they both had the images so i put them in both places (i was not sure which was actually being used :-/) please feel free to remove what we don't need [04:01] mgalvin, ok, I think en shouldn't be there. I'll look into it, cheers [04:04] mgalvin, so you're working on some releasenotes in svn? [04:06] mdke: i started to take a crack at them... jerome, cory and i were talking about them the other day and we decided I would start working on them in svn... [04:06] we were also thinking of building both the html and moin markup for it so we could copy/paste it onto the wiki [04:07] this is just for the finial release notes [04:07] those alpha reviews i have been doing will still be worked on in the wiki [04:09] cool [04:09] will you liase with mdz and co on the releasenotes? [04:10] yup, will do [04:10] cool [04:10] are you working on it in docbook xml? [04:11] yea, following same format and procedure as the previous ones... for now i really just copied breezy-release-notes.xml to dapper-release-notes.xml [04:16] that's how i did it for kubunut release notes if i recall correctly :) [04:16] :) === jsgotangco [n=jsg@ubuntu/member/jsgotangco] has joined #ubuntu-doc [04:18] cool [04:19] you know the website will take html? moin format isn't necessary [04:19] hey guys [04:19] even better [04:19] hey jsgotangco [04:20] mdke: i will try that first then, just gen the html and copy/paste [04:22] mdke: jsgotangco may also help out with the release notes as well [04:22] well i did wrote the last one for breezy [04:22] it *was* hard === highvoltage [n=Jono@mtngprs7.mtn.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-doc [04:37] say. is there any reason to keep the .pot files in the svn repo? if these are generated files and not to be mucked with, if nothing else it sould save a little bandwidth and disk space to svn rm them. [04:38] they're not that big compared to the unused images right? [04:39] mostly true, I think - I'm arguing for cleaning up the repo in general. I'm all for doing away with those too. [04:40] +1 for spring cleaning [04:40] works for me [04:40] well not really cleaning [04:40] i'd rather branch the old stuff [04:40] might be useful at one point [04:41] right of course, always save old stuff... you never know when we might need it [04:41] it'd still be there as an old rev [04:42] trappist, yeah we branch after every release then clean up then merge back to trunk [04:42] and the old branches, e.x. breezy still have the old stuff [04:42] i believe we currently have 2 branches [04:42] should be trunk and breezy [04:43] trappist: it might be best to propose a cleanup process and such and then being the cleanup process after the dapper release [04:43] leave the pots alone please [04:43] this way we could create the dapper branch then clean up what is necessary [04:46] where is the document that describes the markup we use, and when to use what? [04:46] or are we all using some cool docbook editor and I'm just using vim like a chump? === mgalvin uses gedit or vi [04:47] mgalvin: how do you decide what markup to use for, say, an application name? [04:50] trappist: well since there is no guide for that (that i know of) i generally follow the conventions of the doc i am working on [04:50] based on what is already in it [04:50] gotcha. since that doesn't seem to be consistent among the docs, maybe this new meta-document should be on our to-do list. [04:51] for dapper+1 of course :) [04:51] yup :) === lakin [n=lakin@dsl-hill-66-18-228-60-cgy.nucleus.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc [04:51] we should have a doc describing our conventions [04:51] right now i think and valid doc-book is game === ompaul [n=ompaul@ubuntu/member/ompaul] has joined #ubuntu-doc [04:51] isn't that the styleguide or ?? [04:52] I thought the styleguide was more about linguistic conventions [04:52] but maybe it does belong in there [04:52] right the style guide says nothing about docbook tags [04:52] its supposed to be, but it'll make a the styleguide a chapter or something then another chapter dedicated to docbook conventions [04:53] in effect, creating an ubuntu documentation guide [04:53] I like that === crimsun [i=nobody@pdpc/supporter/silver/crimsun] has joined #ubuntu-doc [05:14] do we have some kind of lint checker? or is there a way for me to see how my changes will appear in the wiki? === LaserJock [n=mantha@ubuntu/member/laserjock] has joined #ubuntu-doc [05:24] trappist, there is a preview button under the edit box === lloydinho [n=andreas@rosinante.egmont-kol.dk] has joined #ubuntu-doc [05:25] I'm editing with vim in the repo - should I be doing the wiki thing instead? [05:26] trappist, what wiki are you talking about? [05:26] the repo is a separate thing [05:26] I'm looking at http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/serverguide/C/firewall-configuration.html and editing generic/serverguide/C/network-applications.xml [05:27] build the guide locally [05:27] ah, that's not a wiki [05:27] trappist, do "make server" from the ubuntu/ folder, or simply open the xml in yelp [05:27] oh you're right, it just looks a lot like the wiki :) [05:27] mdke: that's what I was looking for. Thanks. [05:28] there's also a validation script in the top level of the trunk repo. [05:28] excellent [05:28] oh actually, you can do "make server" in the generic folder too [05:28] it calls the same target [05:29] is there something as cool as yelp that serves as an editor? [05:29] some things have not turned out as I expected and it's hard to see why [05:30] fraid not [05:30] the validate script will tell you what is wrong with the code [05:34] conglomerate is suposed to be close but I crashed a couple of times when I tried to open up some of the docs in the repo. They are too much for it I think ;-) [05:35] yeah it can't seem to handle network-applications.xml [05:39] anyway I'm filling in the blanks on the firewall section, which is all blanks. of course I have to cover iptables, but how deep should I go and at what point do I defer to the awesome docs that already exist on the intarweb? [06:02] your own judgment I'd say, I'm just happy to have blanks filled in [06:02] bhuvan might be able to give better indication [06:06] found a couple of java docbook editors on sourceforge that might not suck once I figure them out [06:18] it's all about gedit === robitaille [n=daniel@ubuntu/member/robitaille] has joined #ubuntu-doc [06:21] *cough* vim *cough* [06:22] yeah, looks like gedit is a text editor, and I'm pretty much a vim guy. I just want a live preview to help me get acquainted with the markup. [06:24] I usually just use yelp for that. Not perfect for sure. Especially since I edit and preview on 2 different machines ;-) [06:26] yelp is good [06:27] but it isn't very "live" [06:27] actually, I really wish there was a reload button [06:27] yeah I was just looking for that. [06:30] ctrl R [06:30] oh cool [06:30] >_< [06:30] why can't they just use f5 like all the cool guys [06:31] or even ctrl-l like vim [06:31] gnome uses ctrl r [06:31] I see. [06:32] or put a button or at least have it in the menu [06:32] users don't need to refresh yelp [06:32] only doc writers :D [06:33] F5 is for turning the volume up [06:34] no Fn+Page Up is for turning up the volume [06:35] I think it's ctrl-alt-meta-shift-escape-pagedown-enter to refresh in emacs [06:38] LaserJock: about the previews, i use html so that i can refresh easily [06:38] is that ok? [06:38] I can write html with my butt cheeks. [06:39] robotgeek: well, it is easier for me to use yelp than to build the html and view it [06:39] I know maybe half a dozen docbook markup tags [06:39] so I'm sure I'm using some of them inappropriately [06:42] well, you still need to know the docbook [06:42] to make the html [06:42] trappist, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/DocbookTags [06:43] awesome. I was trying to ask for that earlier :) [06:43] mdke: what? that isn't linked to from the other Docbook wiki pages [06:44] I didn't know that existed [06:51]