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| j^ | whats the state of ubuntu on intel mac minis? | 12:57 |
|---|---|---|
| Burgwork | j^, currently waiting elilo work, afaik. Ask mjg59 for a more definative answer | 12:57 |
| natroll | give me a mac mini and i'll help out :D | 12:58 |
| j^ | i just got one, wanted to get a powerpc but they are out of stock | 12:59 |
| Amaranth | mjg59 has dapper booting and working more or less right on the imac | 12:59 |
| j^ | i saw that, was just wondering if there is more info than the image with red wine :) | 01:00 |
| jdub | j^: sweet | 01:00 |
| Amaranth | the extra six weeks should give mjg59 a chance to get his stuff in, right? :) | 01:01 |
| LaserJock | ohh, I can't wait until I can get K/Ubuntu on this thing :) | 01:01 |
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| mjg59 | Amaranth: We just need a binutils that can build a bootloader | 01:18 |
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| === jdong gasps | ||
| jdong | are we down to a stock 1 minute boot time?! | 01:23 |
| natroll-- | 1017 packages to upgrade to dapper from a stock x86 breezy | 01:26 |
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| mike_douglas | Hey, I ran into a fairly serious bug in gnome-terminal that just appeared today. All curses applications no longer work. Can anyone else confirm this? | 02:08 |
| crimsun | no, alsamixer -c0 works fine here. | 02:09 |
| jdub | mike_douglas: which apps in particular? | 02:10 |
| mike_douglas | ncmpc and irssi | 02:10 |
| crimsun | irssi works fine here, too. | 02:11 |
| jdub | irssi looks fine here | 02:11 |
| mike_douglas | hmm, probably a local problem then, thanks. | 02:11 |
| jdub | mike_douglas: worth tracking though | 02:12 |
| mike_douglas | Yeah, I'll write something up. Resizing the window seems to fix it. | 02:12 |
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| sladen | mjg59: can you upload the known working elilo and the duff elilo somewhere? I'd like to have a poke at them and see if there's anything obviously different | 02:17 |
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| Burgwork | ok, Ubuntu needs to get another X guru | 02:38 |
| LaserJock | ? | 02:41 |
| Burgwork | https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-input-synaptics/+bug/28648/ | 02:42 |
| Ubugtu | malone bug 28648 in xserver-xorg-input-synaptics "Slow movement regression of synaptics touchpad on v0.14.3+seriouslythistime" [Normal,Confirmed] | 02:42 |
| ajmitch | Burgwork: you don't want to step up for the job? | 02:42 |
| Burgwork | does it involve code? | 02:42 |
| infinity | sladen: http://www.codon.org.uk/~mjg59/tmp/efi/ | 02:43 |
| jdub | hrm | 02:43 |
| jdub | every now and then, the screensaver is kicking in | 02:43 |
| Burgwork | noticed that as well | 02:44 |
| infinity | jdub: Yeah, some of us have had that bug for months, others seem to have just contracted it (so, possibly two slightly different but very similar bugs) | 02:44 |
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| jdub | i have been really slack about filing bugs so far during dapper | 02:45 |
| bddebian | Lamer | 02:46 |
| bddebian | :-) | 02:46 |
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| === bddebian wonders if jbailey is STILL on that support call? :-) | ||
| LaserJock | so are we going to have an macintel install party? | 02:51 |
| bddebian | *cough* | 02:51 |
| === tritium will simply be satisfied to finally have ubunt on his iMac G5 | ||
| bddebian | Nice | 02:52 |
| tritium | ubuntu even ;) | 02:52 |
| LaserJock | I've been waiting to get Ubuntu on this baby | 02:52 |
| LaserJock | I've got lots of Gigs to dual boot with | 02:52 |
| infinity | "I've got lots of Gigs"... That just sounds strange. | 02:53 |
| jdub | infinity: we'll upgrade your 386 soon. | 02:53 |
| bddebian | heh | 02:54 |
| infinity | It was more the descriptive fragment without a noun to go with it. | 02:54 |
| LaserJock | infinity: hmm, does it? sorry if my English is bad. I'm a native speaker ;) | 02:54 |
| infinity | Lots of gigs of WHAT? | 02:54 |
| LaserJock | hard disk space | 02:54 |
| infinity | jdub: s/i386/m68k/ ... And thpt. :) | 02:55 |
| infinity | (And I did just upgrade, from a 68060 to a ColdFire...) | 02:55 |
| bddebian | LaserJock: :-) | 02:55 |
| infinity | (Though the ColdFire doesn't have "lots of gigs") | 02:55 |
| tritium | hmm, there's already an ubuntu affiliate in AZ, which is only one state away... | 02:55 |
| bddebian | Well at least it wasn't a 68030 | 02:55 |
| LaserJock | tritium: ? | 02:56 |
| tritium | LaserJock: http://www.ubuntu.com/support/marketplace/northernamerica | 02:56 |
| LaserJock | tritium: meet in Phoenix? ;-) | 02:57 |
| tritium | LaserJock: any time, friend :) | 02:57 |
| LaserJock | tritium: maybe we should have a Southwest US loco team | 02:58 |
| tritium | Precisely what I've been contemplating, LaserJock | 02:59 |
| minghua | LaserJock: hey, I could be in that team too! (/me waves from Houston) | 02:59 |
| LaserJock | minghua's over at Rice. maybe we can claim him too ;-) | 02:59 |
| LaserJock | lol | 02:59 |
| minghua | there you go :-) | 03:00 |
| tritium | definitely :) | 03:00 |
| LaserJock | or maybe it is just the MOTU Science loco team ;-) | 03:01 |
| Kyral | meh I'm in New York | 03:01 |
| LaserJock | robotgeek is at UT-Arlington | 03:02 |
| tritium | I think he moved to Boston... | 03:02 |
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| LaserJock | Kyral: you apparently need to move West | 03:05 |
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| LaserJock | hi minghua | 05:22 |
| minghua | hello LaserJock | 05:22 |
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| xBeatrix | hello. can anybody help me with remastering? | 06:03 |
| xBeatrix | :-/:(:-[ | 06:04 |
| LaserJock | xBeatrix: you might google or search wiki.ubuntu.com . I'm not sure if you'll get much here right now | 06:05 |
| xBeatrix | i did. i came across this: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/InstallCDCustomizationHowTo | 06:08 |
| xBeatrix | followed the instructions but got some errors | 06:08 |
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| dholbach | good morning | 08:49 |
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| highvoltage | morning, dholbach | 09:04 |
| dholbach | hey highvoltage | 09:05 |
| tepsipakki | dholbach: hi! do you think zsh-beta could be synced from debian?-) They've released version 4.3.2 which has better utf8-support.. zsh-beta is in universe | 09:16 |
| dholbach | tepsipakki: if it's a new upstream version, it requires a report | 09:17 |
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| tepsipakki | dholbach: a bug report against it? | 09:18 |
| pitti | Good morning | 09:18 |
| dholbach | tepsipakki: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2006-February/000545.html | 09:18 |
| tepsipakki | hmm, I should probably subscribe to u-m | 09:18 |
| ajmitch | morning pitti | 09:19 |
| pitti | hi ajmitch, how are you? | 09:20 |
| ajmitch | good, how are you this morning? | 09:21 |
| pitti | pretty breezy :) | 09:21 |
| tepsipakki | how about the libpam-krb5 sync from debian (1.2.0-1 -> -2), where should I report that? | 09:21 |
| minghua | tepsipakki: that does NOT need any special report for approval AFAIK | 09:23 |
| dholbach | tepsipakki: same | 09:23 |
| dholbach | ah ok | 09:23 |
| dholbach | no, now i understand, yes, what minghua said | 09:23 |
| irvin | hi devs! is there work underway to have a one-stop hardware compatability list for ubuntu? | 09:24 |
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| Burgundavia | irvin: thoughts, but nothing underway that i have heard of | 09:25 |
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| irvin | it would be nice to have one though.... /me scans forums and wiki | 09:27 |
| irvin | thanks Burgundavia | 09:27 |
| tepsipakki | minghua: ok, but who should I ping to get it sync'd, elmo? | 09:27 |
| minghua | tepsipakki: that part I am never sure of | 09:27 |
| minghua | tepsipakki: sync'ing seems to be broken right now, I heard the currect accepted workaround is "fakesync" | 09:28 |
| minghua | tepsipakki: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2006-March/000572.html | 09:28 |
| tepsipakki | minghua: ok, I _really_ need to subscribe :) | 09:29 |
| tepsipakki | thanks | 09:29 |
| pitti | mjg59: ping | 09:32 |
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| Mithrandir | ogra: the suspend bug has returned. | 09:39 |
| Mithrandir | ogra: also, it seems like gnome-screensaver-preferences can't actually change the prefs when g-s goes into that mode. | 09:39 |
| doko | good morning | 09:49 |
| ajmitch | morning doko | 09:49 |
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| highvoltage | dholbach: sorry, i'm working as hard as i can on it | 10:14 |
| dholbach | highvoltage: hm? | 10:14 |
| highvoltage | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/BugsForExtraPoints <- #1 | 10:14 |
| dholbach | ah nice :) | 10:14 |
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| G0SUB | are there any known issues with X locking up in Dapper? | 10:22 |
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| mvo | ping Kamion | 10:37 |
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| G0SUB | are there any known issues of X locking up in dapper? | 10:38 |
| elkbuntu | G0SUB, dont repeat your question like that in here. people in here really are quite busy | 10:38 |
| hunger | Anyone else having trouble upgrading ubuntu-artwork in dapper? | 10:38 |
| G0SUB | elkbuntu: I understand ... | 10:38 |
| mdke | G0SUB, search the bugtracker, and if you don't find one, report the bug and a developer will look at it | 10:39 |
| === hunger has no /etc/alternatives/x-cursor-theme and wonders whether he needs to report that. | ||
| elkbuntu | hunger, it's better to report it and have it rejected | 10:39 |
| G0SUB | mdke: how can I do that from the console? | 10:39 |
| hunger | elkbuntu: OK... I'll venture into the darkness called LP again:-( | 10:40 |
| G0SUB | mdke: were there any X updates today? everything was fine before | 10:40 |
| elkbuntu | G0SUB, does 'startx' get you into gnome at all? | 10:40 |
| G0SUB | elkbuntu: when I start GDM I get a blank screen ... and the lockup is logged in the Xorg logs | 10:41 |
| mdke | G0SUB, you can't do it from the console. Maybe use your stable system to do it | 10:41 |
| G0SUB | heh, I have only one system :( | 10:42 |
| elkbuntu | G0SUB, do you have ssh or a webserver installed? | 10:42 |
| G0SUB | elkbuntu: ssh yes | 10:42 |
| G0SUB | elkbuntu: I am giving you the exact Xorg logs | 10:42 |
| elkbuntu | G0SUB, hmm? | 10:43 |
| G0SUB | Error in I830WaitLpRing() | 10:43 |
| G0SUB | looks like a driver issue? | 10:44 |
| elkbuntu | G0SUB, it'd be better to get the whole logs for the devs to have a look through, rather than just one line | 10:44 |
| G0SUB | yes, since I am in the console, I can't copy paste ... I am uploading it to a server | 10:45 |
| sivang | morning all! | 10:45 |
| pitti | hey sivang | 10:45 |
| sivang | pitti: Hi Martin :) | 10:46 |
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| mdke | G0SUB, this is more for #ubuntu, but you can copy and paste if you install "gpm" from universe | 10:46 |
| G0SUB | ok | 10:47 |
| G0SUB | http://zope.gnowledge.org:8080/Xorg.0.log | 10:48 |
| ogra | Mithrandir, meh :( | 10:48 |
| G0SUB | hello sivang ! | 10:50 |
| Kamion | mvo: yes? | 10:50 |
| G0SUB | elkbuntu: did you check the log? | 10:51 |
| mvo | Kamion: we don't do thai currently in the installer as a language in language-chooser, right? | 10:51 |
| Kamion | folks, please use dpkg-buildpackage/debuild's -v option when you're building fake sync uploads | 10:52 |
| Kamion | check that the .changes file lists all the changes since the last version in Ubuntu | 10:52 |
| Kamion | mvo: no - there are no translations yet so it hasn't been added | 10:52 |
| Kamion | at least some level of translation is a prerequisite there I think | 10:53 |
| mvo | Kamion: ok, thanks | 10:53 |
| Kamion | but it's no problem to add it once that's there | 10:53 |
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| sivang | hey G0SUB | 10:55 |
| elkbuntu | G0SUB, were you by any chance using totem-xine? | 10:55 |
| elkbuntu | https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-driver-i810/+bug/22741 is the bug G0SUB has, tell him if he returns | 10:58 |
| Ubugtu | malone bug 22741 in xserver-xorg-driver-i810 "I830WaitLpRing() lockup" [Major,Confirmed] | 10:58 |
| doko | funny, the OOo spellchecker proposes as a correction for "Breezy Badger" -> "Brezel Bagger" | 11:02 |
| dholbach | hahaha | 11:03 |
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| ogra | haha, seems i finally have a track for the flickering screensaver :) | 11:05 |
| ogra | morning mdz | 11:05 |
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| seb128 | doko: do you know about that: http://ploum.fritalk.com/ooo_bug.png ? | 11:09 |
| Treenaks | Rectangular | 11:09 |
| ogra | jordi, ping | 11:11 |
| jordi | pong | 11:11 |
| ogra | jordi, you had the flicker in your screensaver, right ? | 11:11 |
| jordi | yeah | 11:12 |
| jordi | let me try now to see how's it going | 11:12 |
| ogra | can you install the xscreensaver package and do a test for me ? | 11:12 |
| jordi | 2.14.0-0ubuntu1 didn't change anything | 11:12 |
| jordi | sure | 11:12 |
| doko | seb128: nice | 11:13 |
| ogra | just run the settings app (no need to start xscreensaver if it complains) and go to a GL screensaver ... | 11:13 |
| ogra | GLText for example | 11:13 |
| doko | seb128: remove one font after the other, to find out, which font is missing the glyphs | 11:13 |
| ogra | then go to settings->advanced, and pick visual = Default from the pulldown list ... | 11:14 |
| ogra | or Default-N | 11:14 |
| ogra | does it flicker in xscreensaver as well then ? | 11:14 |
| seb128 | doko: what font? | 11:14 |
| seb128 | doko: that's like the font is missing every single glyph :p | 11:14 |
| ogra | (mdz said you see it in the preview already) | 11:14 |
| doko | seb128: that's not uncommon with indic, tamil, ... | 11:15 |
| seb128 | I blame mvo so | 11:16 |
| doko | seb128: iz no gtk bug! | 11:17 |
| jordi | ogra: all is smooth | 11:19 |
| jordi | GLText is smooth | 11:19 |
| ogra | no flicker ? | 11:19 |
| jordi | all the rest are too | 11:19 |
| jordi | ya | 11:19 |
| ogra | hm :( | 11:19 |
| jordi | let me try GLText in g-s | 11:19 |
| ogra | even if you set visual = default and preview it ? | 11:19 |
| jordi | oh I missed that bit | 11:19 |
| jordi | wait | 11:19 |
| ogra | or default-n | 11:20 |
| ogra | seems our g-s-s doesnt know the GL visual ... (no idea how to teach it to use that, but i'll find out if its reproducable) | 11:20 |
| jordi | ogra: aha, flicker | 11:22 |
| ogra | YAY \o/ | 11:22 |
| ogra | oki, so i have a track, thanks jordi :) | 11:22 |
| jordi | yay | 11:22 |
| doko | mvo: ping | 11:24 |
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| pitti | wb mdz | 11:27 |
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| netstar | what happened to ld.so.conf? | 11:30 |
| mvo | doko: hello, I got your question yesterday, but the sprint keeps me *very* busy | 11:32 |
| mvo | doko: sorry for this, I may try to look at the issue again today | 11:32 |
| Mez | erm | 11:34 |
| Mez | seb128, ping | 11:35 |
| seb128 | Mez: pong | 11:35 |
| Mez | seb128, ubuntu-artwork is causing errors on upgrade for me | 11:35 |
| seb128 | Mez: I knew you were going to ask that | 11:35 |
| Mez | seb128, known problem? | 11:35 |
| seb128 | we got already 3 bugs about that, and it was fixed before reading the bugs | 11:35 |
| Mez | ;) | 11:35 |
| Mez | fair enough | 11:35 |
| Mez | I'll go away then | 11:35 |
| seb128 | you guys are update manics, it's incredible | 11:36 |
| seb128 | :) | 11:36 |
| elkbuntu | seb128, sabdfl sorta lit a bonfire under them | 11:36 |
| Mez | seb128, well since I've had adept-notifier I update as soon as possible | 11:39 |
| Mez | I hate the "new updates waiting" icon | 11:39 |
| Mez | reminds me too much of windows | 11:39 |
| seb128 | update-notifier doesn't do hourly packages list update, does it? | 11:39 |
| elkbuntu | Mez, at least it doesnt just do them then tell you every 10 mins to reboot | 11:39 |
| ploum | ehe :-) I like very much the Frankenstein-Launchpad post ! | 11:40 |
| Mez | seb128: not too sure | 11:40 |
| Mez | I think I have that in my root's crontab | 11:40 |
| seb128 | Mez: anyway a quick look to launchpad before asking is appreciate, because if 100 people ping me at every bugs that's an issue | 11:41 |
| Mez | seb128: apologies :D | 11:41 |
| Seveas | seb128, I'm sure you could handle that | 11:41 |
| Mez | but trying to find bugs in that thing is amazingly hard | 11:41 |
| === Seveas runs | ||
| Mez | seb128, plus I thought it was an issue due to running kubuntu | 11:41 |
| seb128 | Mez: if you know the package is not that hard, but whatever :) | 11:42 |
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| mvo | seb128: update-notifier does it daily, no idea about this adept thing | 11:42 |
| Mez | seb128, lol ;) | 11:42 |
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| doko | dholbach: are you doing example content? | 11:42 |
| dholbach | yes, together with heno - he did the selection | 11:42 |
| doko | dholbach: asking, if we could/should promote openclipart from universe to main ... | 11:44 |
| dholbach | doko: in fact heno wanted to drop the cliparts from example-content again | 11:45 |
| dholbach | as it grew too big | 11:45 |
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| dholbach | hey sabdfl | 11:45 |
| sabdfl | howdy all | 11:45 |
| Mez | mvo: this code looks a little scary | 11:45 |
| Mez | m_timer->start( 1000*60 ); // 60 secs for now | 11:45 |
| doko | dholbach: yes, it's 140MB, we should not ship it | 11:45 |
| dholbach | doko: i referred to example-content, but yeah :) | 11:46 |
| Mez | mvo: though it only checks the apt-cache stamp | 11:46 |
| seb128 | hi sabdfl | 11:46 |
| Mez | (and status) | 11:46 |
| Mez | Morning Mark | 11:46 |
| sabdfl | hi there seb128, all settled down from last week? | 11:48 |
| ploum | seb128: the bogus font (if any) seems to be ttf-opensymbol | 11:48 |
| ploum | but I can't remove it : http://pastebin.com/603232 | 11:48 |
| seb128 | doko: for you | 11:48 |
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| mvo | Mez: not my code :P feel free to send bugreports | 11:49 |
| mvo | Mez: update-notifier uses gnome-vfs monitor feature to do the same | 11:49 |
| Mez | mvo: no - I know it's not your code - I was referring to you saying you didnt know how often adept-notifier updated itself | 11:49 |
| seb128 | sabdfl: yeah mostly, GNOME 2.14.0 has landed to dapper, now I've some good bug backlog to fight :) | 11:49 |
| mvo | Mez: ah, right :) | 11:50 |
| ploum | "'m not sure that releasing a product named "Drake" is a good idea in a H5 bird flu context." | 11:50 |
| sabdfl | seb128: the good fight :-) | 11:50 |
| === ploum rolls on the floor :-) | ||
| Mez | ploum, where did that come from ? | 11:50 |
| ploum | Mez: from the ubuntu-devel list ! | 11:50 |
| mvo | lol | 11:50 |
| ploum | That was a serious message ! | 11:50 |
| Mez | whats the Message Subject? | 11:50 |
| seb128 | sabdfl: right ;) | 11:50 |
| jordi | heh, that makes it even funnier | 11:50 |
| ploum | Mez: "Dapper Drake and Bird Flu" | 11:51 |
| Mez | nvm - got it | 11:51 |
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| Mez | and all we need to do is get mark to change his mind and say it's a dragon ;) | 11:51 |
| Mez | :P | 11:51 |
| doko | seb128: can you reproduce that on your machine? | 11:51 |
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| ploum | Mez: making Mark change his mind is sometimes harder than reimplementing the whole operating system ;-) | 11:52 |
| seb128 | doko: no, but I've a bunch of other font packages ploum doesn't has | 11:52 |
| Mez | ploum, I know - I've heard | 11:52 |
| gwenald | will ubuntu adopt linspire's click'n'run after all? | 11:52 |
| seb128 | ploum: why do you think it's ttf-opensymbol ? | 11:52 |
| seb128 | ploum: sudo apt-get -f install ? | 11:53 |
| Kamion | gwenald: why would we want to do that? it's tied into linspire's business model | 11:53 |
| ploum | seb128, doko : because I removed all the other fonts and I still have the bug. Also, I cannot remove this package, I don't understand (apt-get -f does nothing) | 11:53 |
| gwenald | Kamion: i don't want that to happen. i only fear that would happen and i am anxious to know whether it will or not. | 11:54 |
| ploum | but it's maybe not a font that is missing instead | 11:54 |
| Kamion | gwenald: seems unlikely | 11:54 |
| Kamion | gwenald: AFAIK there are no plans for it | 11:54 |
| gwenald | kagou: cool then | 11:54 |
| Kamion | gwenald: where did you hear this? | 11:54 |
| gwenald | Kamion: osnews, iirc | 11:55 |
| Mez | hmm | 11:55 |
| Mez | jdub's not gonna be around now is he? | 11:55 |
| seb128 | ploum: sudo apt-get install openoffice.org-l10n-en-us ? | 11:55 |
| Kamion | gwenald: ... ok ;-) | 11:55 |
| ploum | seb128: already installed | 11:55 |
| doko | ploum: could you move (or remove) your ~/.openoffice* folder, restart OOo and try again? | 11:55 |
| ploum | doko: ok, let's do it | 11:56 |
| seb128 | ploum: your pastebin message makes no sense | 11:56 |
| ploum | seb128: it's not "mine", it's the apt message I've got, I swear ! :-) | 11:56 |
| ploum | interesting, I've four .openoffice* : .openoffice/ .openoffice.org1.9.milestone/ | 11:57 |
| ploum | .openoffice.org1.9.103/ .openoffice.org2/ | 11:57 |
| jdub | Mez: what can i help you with? | 11:57 |
| Mez | jdub: Planet RSS feed seems to be not working | 11:57 |
| ploum | jdub: indeed. It's the hackergotchi that brokes the RSS | 11:58 |
| jdub | oh, really? | 11:58 |
| ploum | doko: removed without any change | 11:58 |
| jdub | i'll have a look - thanks | 11:58 |
| gwenald | Kamion: you're mentioning linspire's business model, but what is ubuntu's? | 11:59 |
| doko | ploum: strange, can you reproduce it from the live CD? | 11:59 |
| ploum | doko: arf, no live CD here. I will try this later | 12:00 |
| Kamion | gwenald: it's probably easiest for me to point to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarkShuttleworth to answer that | 12:01 |
| ploum | thanks for interest ;-) | 12:01 |
| Kamion | gwenald: there are long responses there from Mark to a number of questions along those lines | 12:01 |
| Mez | ffs - people annoy me | 12:02 |
| mvo | Kamion: for the "please run langauage-selector" you will need to put a file in /var/lib/update-notifier/user.d/ | 12:03 |
| doko | seb128: do you know which glyph is used for the dot in the login screen? | 12:04 |
| Kamion | mvo: what deals with removing those files? | 12:04 |
| seb128 | doko: that's not only the login screen, gksudo does the same, a sec | 12:05 |
| mvo | Kamion: nothing, it will use the time-stamp to figure if it needs to be displayed or not | 12:05 |
| Kamion | mvo: hmm, it would be preferable if language-selector could install that file, and the installer could just say "display it if it's there, please" | 12:05 |
| Kamion | that way I don't have to hardcode stuff about the language selector into the installer | 12:06 |
| Kamion | well, not too much ... | 12:06 |
| seb128 | doko: U+25CF BLACK CIRCLE | 12:06 |
| Kamion | but I guess having the installer do it is possible too | 12:06 |
| seb128 | doko: 0x25cf so | 12:06 |
| mvo | Kamion: well, does the install know if it can't install a language complettely? | 12:07 |
| sabdfl | gwenald: also, cast your eyes over http://geekz.co.uk/lovesraymond/archive/cancomical-lynchpad | 12:08 |
| minghua | mvo: do you think it's worth doing to make scim provide the im-switch support so that each scim module doesn't need to create their own? | 12:08 |
| Kamion | mvo: yes | 12:08 |
| mvo | minghua: not sure, it depends on how much work it is to make a generic one for scim | 12:08 |
| mvo | Kamion: if you know that, it would be enough to create a file in this dir with: "please run language selector to complete the install" (I can send you a file with the correct format) | 12:09 |
| minghua | mvo: from what I see, all im-switch support from module packages are almost identical | 12:09 |
| === sivang -> back | ||
| minghua | mvo: I am asking because I am planning to work on im-switch support of scim-tables | 12:09 |
| mvo | minghua: then it is probably a good idea, maybe have one generic and make it possible for the tables to overwrite it | 12:10 |
| minghua | mvo: and it turns out to be identical to the one I wrote for scim-hangule | 12:10 |
| minghua | s/scim-hangule/scim-hangul/ | 12:10 |
| minghua | mvo: it's generally safe anyway since the module packages can still use their own if they want | 12:11 |
| minghua | mvo: it's not like this approach is going to break anything | 12:11 |
| Kamion | mvo: I think I can grok it from existing files in that directory | 12:11 |
| ploum | doko: seb128 found the solution to the ooo font problem : removing /usr/share/fonts/truetype/openoffice | 12:12 |
| mvo | minghua: great, that sounds good and will get us support for all tables :) | 12:12 |
| Kamion | mvo: the problem is, Kubuntu doesn't use language-selector | 12:12 |
| mvo | Kamion: thanks. I think this solution is a good one | 12:12 |
| Kamion | mvo: and the code has to be the same for all derivatives | 12:12 |
| mvo | Kamion: we'll get a frontend for it | 12:12 |
| mvo | right | 12:12 |
| Kamion | mvo: by dapper? | 12:12 |
| minghua | mvo: we still need to figure out the correct locale names (scim-tables-additional supports at least 6 languages) | 12:12 |
| minghua | ;-) | 12:12 |
| mvo | Kamion: yes, it's a pretty important feature | 12:13 |
| Kamion | ok | 12:13 |
| mvo | Kamion: but derivaties may be a problem :/ | 12:13 |
| gwenald | sabdfl: LOL :))) | 12:13 |
| minghua | mvo: then I'll cook a patch and ask you to review it when it's ready, okay? | 12:13 |
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| Kamion | I suppose I could use dpkg -l - the desktop is supposed to be installed by that point | 12:13 |
| sabdfl | :-p | 12:13 |
| ploum | yes, this cartoon is great :-) | 12:14 |
| sivang | man, I lol'd when I saw this | 12:14 |
| ploum | but Burgwork's frankenstein-launchpad story is also very good (but less funny) | 12:15 |
| sivang | ploum: ah, Burgwork also did soemthing similar? | 12:15 |
| ploum | sivang: not in a funny way | 12:15 |
| ploum | interesting : http://www.advogato.org/person/Burgundavia/diary.html?start=72 | 12:15 |
| === sivang adds to his TOREAD list and goes back to HUB hacking. | ||
| mvo | minghua: yes, thanks | 12:17 |
| gwenald | sabdfl: well... are the losses at least diminishing? | 12:18 |
| Seveas | sivang, I'm not too sure whether hubert likes to be hacked on ;) | 12:19 |
| sivang | Seveas: heh | 12:19 |
| gwenald | sabdfl: (noticeably) | 12:19 |
| sabdfl | gwenald: revenue growth rate is greater than cost growth rate, i believe, but i'd need to check | 12:19 |
| sabdfl | i'm confident we'll get ubuntu to be sustainable | 12:19 |
| sivang | sabdfl++ | 12:19 |
| sivang | gwenald: also, the fact canonical are opening a support center in Montreal and started to look for people to man it is a good sign I believe , if that helps :-) | 12:20 |
| gwenald | sabdfl: how could that happen, considering that ubuntu is more like a non-comercial distro? i think this is a tough mission. | 12:20 |
| Seveas | gwenald, have you read the MarkShuttleworth wikipage? | 12:21 |
| sivang | gwenald: when you have a good enough reputation, and you build a strong team that does specific needs tailoring and on site services, you can increase revenues. | 12:21 |
| gwenald | sabdfl: i mean... even esr would advice you to sell software (i guess) :)) | 12:21 |
| sivang | gwenald: and what Seveas said :) | 12:21 |
| Kamion | gwenald: Ubuntu's non-commercial, but Canonical offer support/services on top of that | 12:21 |
| Kamion | well, perhaps "free-as-in-beer" is a better description than "non-commercial" here, but whatever | 12:22 |
| gwenald | Kamion: oh, right -- sabdfl: is canonical profitable? | 12:22 |
| ploum | Don't forget the Orange sponsoring for this release.. | 12:22 |
| gwenald | Kamion: right | 12:22 |
| sivang | heh | 12:22 |
| pitti | ploum: what's this "Orange", a popular company in the US, or whereever? | 12:23 |
| ploum | pitti: I don't know in the US but well here in Europa | 12:23 |
| ploum | mobile phone operator | 12:23 |
| pitti | ah | 12:23 |
| Seveas | not just in US, in NL/FR and several other countries too | 12:23 |
| sabdfl | gwenald: no, canonical isn't profitable, but i'm working on it and confident | 12:24 |
| jordi | pitti: ping | 12:25 |
| === pitti hugs jordi | ||
| jordi | pitti: so power manager is showing this very green icon | 12:25 |
| gwenald | sabdfl: could you please name another company which has an economical model closest to what canonical is aiming at? | 12:25 |
| netstar | linspire? | 12:25 |
| netstar | :P | 12:25 |
| ploum | Microsoft ? | 12:26 |
| jordi | Tooltip is: "Computer is running on AC power. Laptop battery charging (100%). | 12:26 |
| ploum | 99% is pirate software | 12:26 |
| jordi | pitti: do you see that in your apple? | 12:26 |
| pitti | jordi: ok? | 12:26 |
| ploum | only 1% of their marketshare pay the 99% others ;-) | 12:26 |
| sabdfl | gwenald: mysql, mozilla.com | 12:26 |
| pitti | jordi: ah, right, 100% and charging | 12:26 |
| netstar | (m)anyone running on an iMac G5? | 12:26 |
| pitti | jordi: hm, there are some wrong boundary conditions here as well, right, but I need to check | 12:26 |
| pitti | jordi: mine's at 89%, charging now and checking | 12:27 |
| jordi | pitti: I guess this is hw stuff going on, as in the laptop not sending a "I'm not charging anymore" signal | 12:28 |
| pitti | jordi: so hal should grow a light sensor to watch the color of the cable plug :) | 12:28 |
| jordi | pitti: PM could detect it's at 100% and go away if it can't be fixed at kernel level too easily | 12:28 |
| jordi | pitti: lol | 12:28 |
| jordi | pitti: the funny thing is, it's orange right now | 12:29 |
| pitti | jordi: well, then it *is* charging | 12:29 |
| pitti | jordi: so maybe rather the percentage is wrong? | 12:29 |
| jordi | it's at 100% tho | 12:29 |
| jordi | hmm | 12:29 |
| jordi | It was at 0% at 9AM | 12:29 |
| jordi | because I had been.. uhm, "testing" mame last night. | 12:29 |
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| Kamion | pitti: old mozilla-thunderbird-locale-{ca,de,fr,it,nl,pl,uk} source removed (was it you who asked me for that?) | 12:46 |
| pitti | Kamion: yes, I was; thanks | 12:46 |
| Kamion | doko: was it you who asked for ia32-libs-dev/amd64 to be removed? there are still build-dependencies on it (fakeroot, grub, etherboot, fakechroot, x86info) | 12:49 |
| Kamion | I'll look at grub now | 12:49 |
| doko | Kamion: I see, I'll replace them with libc6-i386-dev | 12:52 |
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| jono_ | hey all | 01:02 |
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| jono_ | any word if the delay is happening yet? | 01:04 |
| jordi | mdz: here? | 01:06 |
| Riddell | jono_: no | 01:07 |
| Kamion | it'll be announced when decided | 01:07 |
| jono_ | Kamion, ahhh cool :) | 01:08 |
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| jordi | Kamion: we were talking to matt about syncing ttf-freefont from Debian yesterday. mdz seemed ok with this, but we never made the final push. The new snapshot in Debian is iirc 2 months old, no new bugs in the BTS, and our tests showed it helped in a number of ways, Bengali being prominent. | 01:09 |
| jordi | Kamion: No upstream changelog, Debian changes look sane. | 01:09 |
| Kamion | if mdz's OK with it, it's fine by me ... | 01:09 |
| jordi | he appeared to be positive, but cautious at the same time. He avoided saying a clear "yes" at that moment, but said it looked good | 01:10 |
| seb128 | Kamion, mdz: is that of to update shared-mime-info, that's the freedesktop mime database, the tarball was pretty old they rolled a new one for GNOME 2.14. Quite a bunch of new types definitions and some fixes with it ... | 01:11 |
| jordi | Kamion: the other change I'm proposing is changing fontconfig's default font from bitstream vera to DejaVu. seb128, any comment on this? | 01:13 |
| seb128 | jordi: we already did that, no? | 01:13 |
| jordi | Kamion: Debian #317907 has a comment by keithp accepting the change | 01:13 |
| Ubugtu | debian bug 317907 in libfontconfig1-dbg "include ttf-dejavu as one of the alternatives in depends" [Wishlist,Closed] http://bugs.debian.org/317907 | 01:13 |
| jordi | seb128: ubuntu doesn't have it | 01:13 |
| seb128 | jordi: oh, no it was | 01:14 |
| seb128 | * fonts.conf.in: | 01:14 |
| seb128 | - Add DejaVu fonts immediately after Bitstream Vera, for better i18n | 01:14 |
| seb128 | character support love. | 01:14 |
| seb128 | I don't know the different enough to advocate switch or not | 01:14 |
| jordi | seb128: should be swapped, I believe | 01:14 |
| jordi | background is DejaVu is a fork of Vera, with a ton of fixes distros had been applying, after Bitstream never released new versions of Vera. | 01:15 |
| jdub | jordi: fixes to existing glyphs? | 01:15 |
| jordi | Adds fixes for existing glyphs, plus adds lots of support for central/east European languages, etc. | 01:15 |
| jordi | jdub: some glyphs that looked bad, afaik | 01:15 |
| jdub | hrm, ok, if it fixes existing glyphs then i'd agree | 01:16 |
| seb128 | doko: I think that would fix the password char issue :) | 01:16 |
| jdub | the reason i did it that way around was because it's easier to stick with the vera name | 01:16 |
| jordi | jdub: stick in what sense? | 01:16 |
| jdub | jordi: actually having the font name work | 01:16 |
| jdub | jordi: if we actually remove vera, but make an alias for it to dejavu, that would work too | 01:17 |
| jordi | jdub: we need to forget about vera at some point. DejaVu should become the standard. | 01:17 |
| Kamion | jordi: erm, ok, you're overloading my stack here, could you please send exception requests by mail? | 01:17 |
| jordi | jdub: works for me too, but is a more aggressive approach I guess | 01:17 |
| Kamion | fontconfig font changes are up to the desktop team as far as I'm concerned | 01:17 |
| jdub | jordi: that's kinda what i wanted to avoid without there being some kind of wider buy-in :) | 01:18 |
| jordi | Kamion: ok. I asked, people told me IRC was ok :) | 01:18 |
| jdub | jordi: perhaps this is something we could pitch at guadec | 01:18 |
| jordi | jdub: nod | 01:18 |
| Kamion | seb128: sounds sensible | 01:18 |
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| jdub | jordi: feels a bit sucky towards bitstream though (i'd like to try one last time to get their attention) | 01:18 |
| jordi | jdub: I agree with that | 01:19 |
| jordi | it's been three years though | 01:19 |
| jdub | slackeurs | 01:19 |
| jdub | i'll mail jim | 01:19 |
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| jordi | I read "I'll jail me" | 01:19 |
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| jordi | jdub: ok. | 01:20 |
| jordi | jdub: as for the swapping, should I keep looking a this, or should we punt for dapper+1? | 01:20 |
| doko | jordi: the problem is that dejavu glyphs don't have the same dimensions, which is bad | 01:20 |
| doko | for printing ... | 01:20 |
| jdub | doko: yeah | 01:21 |
| jordi | this appears to be escalating upstream already, with keith agreeing to the change | 01:21 |
| jordi | ah, I didn't know that | 01:21 |
| jordi | so it's bad if ou mix vera and dejavu | 01:21 |
| jordi | if dejavu goes in first, you're very likely to not see vera at all, right? | 01:21 |
| jordi | vera is now a subset of dejavu | 01:21 |
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| jdub | well, there are two problems there | 01:22 |
| jdub | there's the mixing problem | 01:22 |
| jdub | but even with just dejavu, different dimensions have an impact on printing | 01:22 |
| jdub | and all rendering | 01:22 |
| jdub | so, for instance, my presentations will end up out of proportion | 01:22 |
| jdub | ;) | 01:22 |
| jordi | btw, I loved your "7" entry :) | 01:23 |
| jdub | jordi: perhaps the best thing to do is make the generic names map to dejavu first, but install both fonts | 01:23 |
| jdub | thanks :) | 01:23 |
| jordi | aha | 01:24 |
| jordi | right ow debian installs dejavu OR vera OR something OR something | 01:25 |
| Treenaks | jordi: OR or XOR? | 01:25 |
| jordi | you'd want dejavu and bitstream in fontconfig's deps | 01:25 |
| jordi | Depends: debconf (>= 0.5) | debconf-2.0, ucf (>= 0.29), ttf-dejavu | ttf-bitstream-vera | ttf-freefont | gsfonts-x11 | msttcorefonts | 01:25 |
| jordi | wow, msttcorefonts | 01:25 |
| jdub | *fontconfig* deps? interesting | 01:25 |
| jordi | jdub: of course, they need to follow what fonts.conf say is prefered | 01:26 |
| jdub | jordi: yeah, i'd change the second two pipes to commas on that line :) | 01:26 |
| Treenaks | fontconfig depends on fonts? surely it should be the other way around? | 01:26 |
| jdub | Treenaks: naw, this makes sense | 01:26 |
| jordi | http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=317907 | 01:26 |
| === jdub just finds it interesting for debian to do that | ||
| Ubugtu | debian bug 317907 in libfontconfig1-dbg "include ttf-dejavu as one of the alternatives in depends" [Wishlist,Closed] | 01:26 |
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| jdub | but i guess it's sufficiently ORed ;) | 01:26 |
| doko | seb128, jordi, jdub: some hack at http://people.ubuntu.com/~doko/ttf-dejavu_2.3-0ubuntu2_all.deb | 01:26 |
| jdub | doko: what's this? | 01:27 |
| jdub | (well, apart from being dejavu) | 01:27 |
| doko | jdub: a smaller dot that seb128 can handle | 01:27 |
| jordi | let * 0x25cf hack. | 01:28 |
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| jdub | oh right | 01:28 |
| jordi | that's a cool changelog entry ;) | 01:28 |
| seb128 | too small | 01:28 |
| seb128 | imho | 01:28 |
| doko | jordi: I don't plan to upload that | 01:28 |
| Treenaks | -hack? | 01:28 |
| jordi | doko: I know | 01:28 |
| jordi | that's for the passwords thing right? | 01:29 |
| doko | seb128: right, I'm asking upstream for a fix, these are about 15 glyphs in 10 fonts ... I don't want to edit these by hand ... | 01:29 |
| doko | yes | 01:29 |
| jordi | right... I was concerned this was a replacement for other dots | 01:30 |
| jordi | ;) | 01:30 |
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| jordi | jdub: summarizing. What changes would you propose? | 01:37 |
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| infinity | Kamion: Was that changelog entry dylexic, or does grub really build-depend on libc6-i386-dev (rather than libc6-dev-i386)? | 01:38 |
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| jdub | jordi: i guess i'd suggest shipping both, using dejavu as the primary choice for the generic names | 01:39 |
| infinity | s/dylexic/dyslexic/ | 01:39 |
| jordi | jdub: alright | 01:40 |
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| huggymuggy | hi all | 01:47 |
| Mez | infinity, did you upload that patch for scim yet ? | 01:47 |
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| mvo | Mez: what patch is that? | 01:50 |
| Mez | mvo: the one to make it backportable | 01:51 |
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| Kamion | infinity: both the changelog entry and the control file were dyslexic; fixing | 01:56 |
| Kamion | infinity: dylexic> oh the irony | 01:56 |
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| Kamion | infinity: fixed, thanks for the heads-up | 01:57 |
| jordi | jdub: depending on both, you mean getting rid of alternatives for vera and dejavu, ie ttf-dejavu, ttf-bitstream-vera, ttf-freefont | gsfonts-x11 | msttcorefonts | 01:58 |
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| doko | Kamion: please could you promote fdupes to main (reviewed by pitti), so the next OOo upload can use it? | 01:58 |
| jordi | that pulls 3 fonts, not two | 01:58 |
| jordi | I'd do dejavu, vera | this | and | that | 01:59 |
| doko | jordi: pleae not. maybe dejavu is better for the screen, but definitely not for printing | 02:00 |
| jdub | jordi: yes | 02:00 |
| Kamion | doko: done | 02:00 |
| jordi | doko, jdub: yes or no? | 02:00 |
| doko | jordi, jdub: both, but prefer bitstream-vera for printing ... | 02:01 |
| doko | btw, from the OOo sources: | 02:02 |
| doko | # The bitstream fonts never make sense _at all_ they are so metrically odd. | 02:02 |
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| doko | s/Bitstream Vera Sans;//g; | 02:02 |
| doko | s/Bitstream Vera Sans Mono;//g; | 02:02 |
| doko | s/Bitstream Vera Serif;//g; | 02:02 |
| jordi | doko: for printing only? Not sure how to do that. | 02:02 |
| doko | jordi: maybe that was OOo specific ... | 02:03 |
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| bSON | hi | 02:03 |
| slomo | infinity, lamont: please give-back evolution-sharp on ppc, thanks ;) | 02:03 |
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| jordi | doko: lunchtime here. | 02:04 |
| jordi | doko: I don't se eany printing specific config here. It could well be OOo specific. | 02:04 |
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| jordi | I see your concern though. | 02:05 |
| === mvo goes to lunch now | ||
| jordi | doko: that issue is not fixed with vera? | 02:05 |
| jordi | err | 02:05 |
| jordi | with dejavu | 02:05 |
| jordi | back later | 02:05 |
| doko | jordi: which issue? | 02:06 |
| jordi | the sizes issue | 02:06 |
| doko | no, addressed on the dejavu ML | 02:06 |
| jordi | pitti: hmm. now it's green, pm disappeared | 02:06 |
| pitti | Kamion: I cleaned up anastacia output a bit; some package fixes and promotion approvals on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuMainInclusionQueue | 02:06 |
| pitti | jordi: 10 minutes to go for me; there seem to be hiccups after resuming, if the battery is already full | 02:07 |
| doko | abelcheung: minghua (currenty not online) did a first check of OOo and scim. I have no tutorial how to check it for myself (on a western keyboard), so a short description would be nice | 02:07 |
| stub | Launchpad is going down in 15 mins for a regular code update. Estimated downtime is 10 minutes. Wikis will be in read only mode during this time. | 02:10 |
| martink | doko: there's (very little) scim/ooo documentation in ooo-build/doc/im.txt. You probably want to use the gtk+scim instructions | 02:10 |
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| Kamion | pitti: noticed some of that, thanks | 02:10 |
| infinity | slomo: I'd love to, but it failed because the build-deps are uninstallable, giving it back won't change that. | 02:11 |
| sivang | can anybody tell me if to be able to use cdrecord to read last session's offeset, the drive must be an /R/RW drive and not plain read drive (CD/DVD) | 02:11 |
| Kamion | infinity: was that due to lack of libxml-libxml-perl making gtk2-sharp-gapi uninstallable? | 02:11 |
| sivang | ? | 02:11 |
| Kamion | that's on the promotion list | 02:12 |
| martink | doko: oh, and the magic key combo to activate scim is Ctrl+Space | 02:12 |
| infinity | Kamion: No, gtkhtml and gnomeprintui out-of-datedness, it looks like. | 02:12 |
| === infinity sorts. | ||
| seb128 | infinity: what about those*? | 02:13 |
| infinity | Or, just gnomeprint, actually. | 02:13 |
| slomo | infinity: oh, right... last time i looked the failure was something else so you have given-back it already some hours ago it seems... sorry for the noise | 02:14 |
| infinity | seb128: Oh, nothing, I think I'm just waiting on cron.daily to finish actually. | 02:14 |
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| infinity | slomo: I'll toss it back to the wolves. After this cron.daily, it should be okay... | 02:14 |
| slomo | infinity: thanks | 02:15 |
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| pitti | jordi: WFM | 02:22 |
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| sivang | hrm | 02:33 |
| sivang | pooh@tigershark ~/my/upbackup--main/UPBackup/backend $ sudo mount -o loop=/dev/loop0 test.iso test_iso/ | 02:33 |
| sivang | mount: Not a directory | 02:33 |
| sivang | what am I doing wrong? | 02:33 |
| Treenaks | sivang: does the 'test_iso/' directory exist? | 02:35 |
| Treenaks | sivang: in . | 02:35 |
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| sivang | Treenaks: yes, it does. | 02:39 |
| sivang | Treenaks: weirdness | 02:40 |
| ogra | sivang, try sudo mount -o loop test.iso test_iso | 02:43 |
| ogra | let the kernel care for the device | 02:43 |
| sivang | okay, let's try. | 02:43 |
| ogra | or better sudo mount -o loop test.iso ./test_iso | 02:43 |
| sivang | pooh@tigershark ~/my/upbackup--main/UPBackup/backend $ sudo mount -o loop test.iso ./test_iso | 02:44 |
| sivang | mount: Not a directory | 02:44 |
| sivang | what the.. | 02:44 |
| sivang | I can swear this worked once | 02:44 |
| === sivang grumbels | ||
| sivang | ogra: can you try something like that onyour dapper see if it works? | 02:46 |
| ogra | sivang, i do it all the time if i test flight isos ... | 02:47 |
| sivang | oh bad, that something has went crazy in my system | 02:47 |
| ogra | to check the contents and seeds | 02:47 |
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| Kamion | sivang: you sure that ./test_iso is a directory (and that you typed its name right)? | 02:50 |
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| sivang | root@tigershark:/home/pooh/my/upbackup--main/UPBackup/backend # ls -la | grep "test_iso" | 02:51 |
| sivang | drwxr-sr-x 2 pooh pooh 48 2006-03-15 15:25 test_iso | 02:51 |
| sivang | and I use tab completiong, and checked that I typed correctly. | 02:51 |
| sivang | I'm on 2.6.15-17-686 #1 SMP PREEMPT | 02:53 |
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| jono | Kamion, are all filesystem types resizable in espresso ? | 03:04 |
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| === dholbach hugs mvo | ||
| sivang | Kamion: any idea ? has my system gone insane? | 03:08 |
| Pygi | mvo: I'd like to help developin' synaptic | 03:08 |
| sivang | Kamion: oh, I didn't address you directly, so you may have missed - yes, I am sure that I am using the correct dir. | 03:08 |
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| sivang | Seveas: yes, I need to . let try to make the calander work thugh before :) | 03:17 |
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| sivang | argh, this doesn't make any sense | 03:22 |
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| Kamion | jono: anything that parted knows how to resize is resizable in espresso - that's everything that people care about with the exception of NTFS. In d-i we use a special hack to resize NTFS, and if there's time we'll do that in espresso too. | 03:31 |
| jono | Kamion, ok cool | 03:32 |
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| ogra | Kamion, i installed my GFs new laptop last weekend and resized the existing NTFS partition from a breezy liveCD with gparted ... | 03:33 |
| ogra | worked fine ... | 03:33 |
| bddebian | ogra: Awesome, wanna help me get Dapper or Breezy running on my Proliant ML350? :-) | 03:33 |
| ogra | bddebian, i'm not a kernel dev :) | 03:34 |
| bddebian | Bah :-) | 03:34 |
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| ogra | doesnt hurd work ? | 03:34 |
| bddebian | On the Proliant? Hahahaha :) | 03:34 |
| bddebian | I'm going to try Sarge today :-( | 03:35 |
| Kamion | ogra: ah, yes, you're right, it already uses ntfsresize for that | 03:36 |
| Kamion | jono: ^-- | 03:36 |
| mvo | Pygi: great, what particular bits are you interessted in ? | 03:36 |
| abelcheung | doko: sorry, I'm back now, was having lunch | 03:38 |
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| abelcheung | doko: I'll list the testing procedures one by one: | 03:39 |
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| sivang | bddebian: joining the serer team efforts? :) | 03:40 |
| abelcheung | doko: 1. install openoffice.org-l10n-zh-cn and openoffice.org-l10n-zh-tw, and check if the interface shows OOo chinese characters correctly | 03:40 |
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| abelcheung | doko: s/openoffice.org/openoffice.org2/ | 03:40 |
| bddebian | sivang: Hmm, maybe I should :-) But no one likes my type of help. I annoy everyone :-) | 03:40 |
| sivang | re the mount problem, Seveas also tried that: | 03:43 |
| sivang | 14:33 < Seveas> stat64("/sbin/mount.iso9660", 0xbfa08fcc) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory) | 03:43 |
| sivang | 14:33 < Seveas> mount("/dev/loop0", "./test_iso", "iso9660", MS_POSIXACL|MS_ACTIVE|MS_NOUSER|0xec0000, 0x8074f38) = -1 | 03:43 |
| sivang | ENOTDIR (Not a directory) | 03:43 |
| doko | abelcheung: please could you write this down in a wiki page? | 03:43 |
| abelcheung | doko: no problem! | 03:43 |
| Seveas | (sivang: using full paths for both iso and dir doesn't work either) | 03:44 |
| sivang | Seveas: pretty amazing. | 03:44 |
| sivang | when I touch a dummy file and use it as the target it works | 03:44 |
| sivang | but I can't do anything with the file though | 03:44 |
| sivang | as it's not a dir | 03:44 |
| sivang | maybe the iso is screwed.. | 03:45 |
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| koke | mvo: the language-selector.desktop file is not being regenerated from the .in | 04:02 |
| gwenald | somebody please recommend me a repo with gaim 2.0 beta 2 compiled for ubuntu? | 04:02 |
| koke | anyway, try changing Icon: language-selector.png to Icon: config-language to fix #32371 | 04:03 |
| mvo | koke: oh? not regenerated is bad | 04:03 |
| koke | mmm, mvo you have to cd data && make | 04:06 |
| koke | then it works | 04:06 |
| mvo | koke: right, we should add that to setup.py :) | 04:06 |
| koke | yep, just for curiosity, why did you switch to python distutils | 04:07 |
| koke | it's rather annoying to have translations regenerated in every build/install | 04:07 |
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| sivang | Kamion: I find out the source of error with mount. I created an image of a multisession target, when I created a non merged one, it would loopback mount it. the error msg was misleading. Do you have any idea why I can't mount merged multisession images? | 04:23 |
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| Kamion | sivang: sorry, I have no idea | 04:40 |
| sivang | Kamion: okay, np. | 04:42 |
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| mammoth | hi | 05:12 |
| bddebian | Hello mammoth | 05:13 |
| mammoth | how r you? | 05:13 |
| bddebian | Fine thank you. You? | 05:14 |
| mammoth | fine | 05:14 |
| mammoth | i dont work 2day | 05:14 |
| mammoth | and what u do? | 05:14 |
| mammoth | i mean work | 05:14 |
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| slomo | Kamion: hi, i uploaded gtkpod-aac (a NEW package) almost a month ago but it didn't get through NEW yet and nobody saw a REJECTED mail... is it still in NEW or what happened to it? | 05:19 |
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| mvo | Kamion: can we get a upstream version freeze expection for ttf-freefont? the new package has better bengali, tamil etc (see http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=350517) | 05:21 |
| Ubugtu | debian bug 350517 in udeb "Please package the last version" [Doubt....,Closed] | 05:21 |
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| Kamion | mvo: that bug suggests that there are still bad spacing problems with the new version? | 05:35 |
| Kamion | slomo: it's in NEW, sorry, my bad | 05:36 |
| sivang | pitti: any complains about my packaging? :) | 05:36 |
| slomo | Kamion: ok, np :) it's in general the gtkpod package with a new build-dependency from multiverse and conflicts/replaces/provides magic | 05:36 |
| pitti | sivang: no time yet, sorry | 05:37 |
| sivang | pitti: sure, np, whenever you have, I just want the package to pass you before it enters the archive, even that it will be universe. | 05:38 |
| Kamion | slomo: accepted now | 05:38 |
| Kamion | slomo: I have to confess that I generally avoid the stuff with "interesting" licensing in NEW in the hope that elmo will do it instead | 05:38 |
| slomo | Kamion: understandable... i won't like to process them too ;) but this one was fortunately simple as it has nothing bad other than a build-dependency :) | 05:40 |
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| Kamion | slomo: right, although I am somewhat concerned about stuff in multiverse that's GPLed with no exception | 05:41 |
| Kamion | isn't there a question whether that's distributable? | 05:41 |
| slomo | Kamion: good question... no idea :/ but this would affect almost everything in multiverse | 05:42 |
| Kamion | that surprises me, I'm pretty sure most things there are either not GPLed or have an explicit exception clause | 05:43 |
| Kamion | slomo: could you check with the upstream author to get an explicit licence exception for linking with whatever non-free/patented stuff you're using? | 05:43 |
| pitti | isn't that also a question of patents? | 05:43 |
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| Kamion | quite so, see GPL section 7 | 05:44 |
| Kamion | if the upstream author is not content with this, please tell me ASAP and I'll remove the package | 05:44 |
| Kamion | sorry, I only thought of this after processing | 05:44 |
| Kamion | this is why I hate going anywhere near multiverse :-/ | 05:44 |
| slomo | Kamion: i'm pretty sure that many things in multiverse are GPL/LGPL without an exception clause... but i'll verify this later... and write a mail to the gtkpod author about that | 05:45 |
| Kamion | LGPL + non-free/patents without an exception clause is fine, AFAIK | 05:47 |
| Kamion | although I'm not entirely sure about patents | 05:47 |
| slomo | pitti: in this case it's only a question of patents ;) | 05:47 |
| Kamion | I think it's OK though | 05:47 |
| slomo | Kamion: "as a consequence of a court judgment or allegation of patent infringement" there was no court judgment or offical allegation of patent infringement by the patent holders yet from what i know... although that doesn't make it much better as faad definitely infringes patents | 05:50 |
| slomo | Kamion: anyway... how would such exception clause look like? do you have an example in mind? :) | 05:51 |
| Kamion | you snipped "or for any other reason" from that clause, which is kind of relevant (consider a known patent licence) :-P | 05:52 |
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| Kamion | slomo: googling for "GPL exception clause" led me to http://lists.debian.org/debian-legal/2001/08/msg00067.html in about four or five clicks; I'm sure you can find others | 05:53 |
| Kamion | http://gstreamer.freedesktop.org/documentation/licensing.html has similar stuff | 05:53 |
| slomo | Kamion: so knowing that this infringes a patent is "any other reason"? ok, i didn't understand it that way but could be related to my english :) | 05:54 |
| slomo | thanks, i'll get a mail ready to the gtkpod author :) | 05:54 |
| Kamion | dude, "knowing that this infringes a patent" is *stronger* than "allegation of patent infringement" | 05:55 |
| Kamion | if you already know, nobody needs to allege it | 05:55 |
| Kamion | the GPL is kind of assuming that you aren't wilfully breaking the law in its wording | 05:56 |
| bddebian | "breakin' the law, breakin' the law" | 05:56 |
| Kamion | but "any other reason" covers anything that imposes conditions on you contradicting the terms of the GPL | 05:56 |
| Kamion | unless there is an exception clause from the authors of all the GPLed material allowing you to do otherwise, then if you can't distribute the work as a whole under the terms of the GPL, you can't distribute it at all | 05:57 |
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| slomo | Kamion: ok thanks, good to know... | 05:59 |
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| pitti | off to another espresso install try :) | 06:00 |
| pitti | Kamion: is 'sudo env ESPRESSO_DEBUG=1 espresso' the right thing? | 06:02 |
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| pitti | Kamion: (nevermind, seems so, the log is veeery verbose now) | 06:03 |
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| Kamion | pitti: I use ESPRESSO_DEBUG=1 sudo espresso, but yeah, same difference | 06:11 |
| pitti | meh, I cannot get past that 'dispositivos duplicados' error | 06:12 |
| Kamion | ("duplicate mountpoints") | 06:12 |
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| Kamion | wurgle, why the hell isn't partman offering me the chance to erase the whole dis | 06:12 |
| Kamion | k | 06:12 |
| Seveas | Ubugtu just got a bit more useful | 06:13 |
| Kamion | I have a feeling it didn't manage to detect any disks ... | 06:13 |
| Seveas | he will now manage the topic in #ubuntu-meeting and fill it with the fridge ical feed | 06:13 |
| Kamion | Oh. That would be because I forgot to add any in vmware. d'oh. | 06:13 |
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| Kamion | Mithrandir: any idea why /sbin is mode 700 on today's live CD? | 06:18 |
| Mithrandir | Kamion: what does dmesg look like? | 06:19 |
| Kamion | pretty normal - although some DriveReady SeekComplete Error things about hdc | 06:21 |
| Kamion | but that's really weird since this is inside vmware, so I'm inclined to discount it | 06:21 |
| === Kamion greps the archive for /sbin other than mode 755 | ||
| Riddell | I can't confirm the /sbin issue | 06:23 |
| Mithrandir | Kamion: it's probably just squashfs smoking something. | 06:23 |
| Mithrandir | Kamion: try rebooting and see if it fixes it | 06:23 |
| Riddell | Mithrandir: it's a live CD | 06:24 |
| Mithrandir | Riddell: yes, and? | 06:24 |
| Kamion | I think it's safe to assume Mithrandir is familiar with live CDs | 06:24 |
| Kamion | it seems to be incredibly confused about networking too ... | 06:25 |
| Kamion | yeah, sod it, I'll reboot :-/ | 06:25 |
| Mithrandir | Kamion: I'm slightly worried about the "let's go smoke crack" behaviour that we see from squashfs a bit too often. :-/ | 06:25 |
| Kamion | ich auch | 06:26 |
| pitti | Mithrandir: confirmed, /sbin is 0700 here, too | 06:26 |
| Mithrandir | pitti: and nothign interesting in dmesg in your end either? | 06:27 |
| Kamion | same behaviour after reboot, except that networking isn't randomly broken any more | 06:28 |
| bddebian | Fuck, no Dapper, Breezy, or even sarge will install on this ML350.. :-( | 06:28 |
| azeem | tried etch beta 2? | 06:29 |
| azeem | it got released today | 06:29 |
| Kamion | bddebian: what breaks? | 06:29 |
| bddebian | azeem: No not yet | 06:29 |
| bddebian | Kamion: It just hangs | 06:29 |
| Kamion | at what point? | 06:29 |
| bddebian | On Breezy I get: | 06:30 |
| bddebian | 4294668.82100 ACPI: Looking for DSDT.. not found! | 06:30 |
| bddebian | 4292668.92100 not found! | 06:30 |
| bddebian | hang | 06:30 |
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| seb128 | Kamion, mdz: read my question about new shared-mime-info some hours ago? | 06:33 |
| pitti | Mithrandir: not really, at least nothing that looks like oopes and such | 06:35 |
| Kamion | seb128: read my answer some hours ago? ;-) | 06:35 |
| Kamion | 12:18 < Kamion> seb128: sounds sensible | 06:35 |
| pitti | $ dmesg |grep squash | 06:35 |
| pitti | [ 59.117343] squashfs: version 3.0prerelease (2006/1/24) Phillip Lougher | 06:35 |
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| bddebian | Kamion: Any ideas? I have tried acpi=off pci=noacpi noapic DEBCONF_DEBUG=5 BOOT_DEBUG=2 to no avail :-( | 06:36 |
| Kamion | bddebian: I'm afraid not - kernel folks might know better | 06:36 |
| bddebian | I've tried them :-( | 06:36 |
| Kamion | hangs before the installer actually really gets started are well outside my area of expertise | 06:36 |
| xhaker | bbdebian.. Asus laptop? | 06:37 |
| bddebian | xhaker: Compaq Proliant ML350 | 06:37 |
| xhaker | i've seen hangs with the loading of hw_random module on Asus laptop | 06:37 |
| xhaker | 's | 06:37 |
| seb128 | Kamion: nop, I didn't sorry :) What is sensible about it? That's mainly next type definitions, nothing likely to break the world | 06:38 |
| Mithrandir | pitti: I'm off for dinner, so ttyl | 06:39 |
| seb128 | Kamion: and a good bunch of fixes for differents mimetypes too | 06:39 |
| Kamion | seb128: "sounds sensible" == "ok" | 06:39 |
| Kamion | as in, go ahead | 06:39 |
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| seb128 | k, /me hides :) | 06:39 |
| bddebian | seb128: Did you get the alternatives thing working the way you wanted? | 06:39 |
| === Kamion gives his acknowledgements in triplicate. :-) | ||
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| seb128 | Kamion: thank you :)) | 06:40 |
| pitti | Kamion: is there an easy way (besides rebooting the live CD) to purge the espresso settings? It keeps wanting to format a partition it isn't supposed to | 06:40 |
| seb128 | bddebian: out of the way that update-alternatives doesn't create the dir if required yep :p | 06:40 |
| Kamion | pitti: possibly rm -rf /var/lib/partman; it sounds as if partman is very confused | 06:40 |
| pitti | ah, thanks | 06:40 |
| Kamion | but I haven't looked at the log yet | 06:40 |
| bddebian | seb128: :-) | 06:40 |
| pitti | Kamion: (I filed bugs along the installation, I just need some help to actually finish one :) ) | 06:41 |
| seb128 | s/way/fact | 06:41 |
| Kamion | pitti: can you wait a minute and I'll have a quick look at the log? | 06:41 |
| Kamion | just in case there's something else I need | 06:41 |
| pitti | Kamion: oh, sure | 06:41 |
| pitti | Kamion: kudos for your fast mail reading, BTW :) do you have a red lamp that flashes whenever a new espresso bug is filed? | 06:42 |
| Kamion | pitti: oh, in fact never mind, your comment clarifies exactly why it happened | 06:42 |
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| pitti | Kamion: alright, then 'insert coin and try it again' :) | 06:45 |
| lemsx1 | hello all | 06:45 |
| Kamion | pitti: yeah, I just need to make PartmanCommit clear out old state | 06:45 |
| lemsx1 | the sketch program is supposed to work by just calling it from the command line like: sketch ? | 06:45 |
| pitti | Kamion: I saved the old /v/l/partman, just in case | 06:45 |
| pitti | hm, it *still* knows my name | 06:46 |
| lemsx1 | i installed inkscape (just to play around) and saw that it suggested a few other programs. sketch gave me a bunch of errors when i tried to execute it | 06:46 |
| lemsx1 | oh, old bug #5347 | 06:47 |
| Ubugtu | malone bug 5347 in sketch "sketch does not start" [Major,Unconfirmed] http://launchpad.net/bugs/5347 | 06:47 |
| Kamion | well, there are no .debs in main or restricted that ship /sbin as anything other than mode 0755 | 06:48 |
| Kamion | and no obvious chmods in /var/lib/dpkg/info/ | 06:48 |
| Kamion | infinity: any clue what's going on here? | 06:48 |
| doko | infinity, lamont, Kinnison: any reason why openoffice.org-l10n is not picked up by the buildd's? | 06:51 |
| Kinnison | is the source in? | 06:52 |
| doko | yes | 06:52 |
| Kinnison | only just | 06:53 |
| Kinnison | It'll probably all start up in the next few hours as it settles after the problem we had earlier | 06:53 |
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| doko | Kinnison: what do you mean by "just", the .orig.tar.gz? | 06:54 |
| Kinnison | the datetime on the publishing record is seven minutes ago | 06:55 |
| Kinnison | so I imagine the buildds haven't got it yet | 06:55 |
| doko | ahh, ok | 06:55 |
| Kinnison | doko|imatient | 06:55 |
| Kinnison | erm impatient too | 06:55 |
| === Kinnison needs new fingers | ||
| doko | heh ... I did upload these 3 hours ago ;) | 06:58 |
| Kinnison | yeah, and we had some db issues today with the lp upgrade | 06:59 |
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| fstat | hello | 06:59 |
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| sivang | Kinnison: ruined your fingers with the lp upgrade? :) | 07:01 |
| sivang | Kinnison: what's up? | 07:01 |
| Kinnison | sivang: Naah, lots of hacking on LP this week | 07:01 |
| === Kinnison has been having fun doing lots of cool stuff for LP | ||
| sivang | Kinnison: well, tha'ts alwasy good :) | 07:01 |
| sivang | Kinnison: I'm sure you had, and paying with fingers is a small price to pay :-D | 07:02 |
| sivang | Kinnison: are you able to review a package of mine so I can take it off pitti_live 's busy back? :-) | 07:02 |
| Kinnison | sivang: Sure, mail it to me, I.E. the source package | 07:04 |
| Kinnison | sivang: If it's not in my INBOX, I won't have it offline later | 07:05 |
| === sivang rushes up | ||
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| === pitti_live sighs at Dispositivos duplicados and finally gives up | ||
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| sivang | Dispositivos duplicados ? | 07:09 |
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| Kinnison | doko: BQB is running | 07:13 |
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| sivang | Kinnison: sent | 07:20 |
| sivang | Kinnison: see if you get it | 07:20 |
| mdz | seb128: can you repeat it? | 07:20 |
| seb128 | mdz: what? shared-mime-info stuff? Kamion gave me approval so I've uploaded | 07:21 |
| mdz | seb128: ah, ok | 07:22 |
| mdz | (yes) | 07:22 |
| KaiL | damn f*cking powernowd | 07:25 |
| KaiL | it starts to become some tradition, that it breaks on this system ;) | 07:26 |
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| Kinnison | sivang: where did you send it to, it's still not turned up | 07:34 |
| siryes | Hello, good Ubuntu people! I'd like to ask a general question about gksu package. | 07:37 |
| mvo | siryes: just ask, that is in general better than asking for permission :) | 07:38 |
| siryes | Since the Dapper is going to be released a bit later, and Ubuntu team is intended to provide a long support for it (36-60 months), I'd like to support this basic utility by providing a Polish translation. | 07:39 |
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| pitti | seb128, Riddell: mmm, fresh language packs on http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/langpacks/ - wanna help testing them? | 07:39 |
| pitti | grab them while they are hot :) | 07:39 |
| Riddell | pitti: any changes to the packaging, or just updates? | 07:40 |
| pitti | Riddell: just fresh translations | 07:40 |
| pitti | Riddell: maybe you can watch out for amarok | 07:41 |
| siryes | I've created a set of updated .po files which can be found on the Polish Gnome Translators' page: http://www.gnomepl.org/gksu ; http://www.gnomepl.org/libgksu ; http://www.gnomepl.org/libgksuui | 07:41 |
| seb128 | siryes: subscribe to the rosetta team for your locale | 07:41 |
| siryes | I just don't know who to ask to put it in the Ubuntu packages. The Polish translations of the aforemntioned packages are horribly outdated... :-( | 07:42 |
| siryes | rosetta team, ok. Where to find them? | 07:42 |
| pitti | Riddell: darn, it seems that amarok was not updated, might still be the old tarball | 07:42 |
| pitti | Riddell: I forgot to check for that before building the new packs | 07:42 |
| seb128 | pitti: gstreamer-0.8 translation is dropped but no gstreamer-0.10 one replace it | 07:43 |
| pitti | Riddell: so it seems we need a no-change upload to get a new translation tarball (currently importet one is 2:1.3.8-0ubuntu2) | 07:43 |
| sivang | Kinnison: dsilvers@canonical.com | 07:43 |
| siryes | ok, got it: https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-l10n-pl | 07:43 |
| siryes | Is this team responsive? ;-) | 07:43 |
| Riddell | pitti: latest amarok is 2:1.3.8-0ubuntu6, why will uploading it again change which version is used for the translation tar? | 07:44 |
| pitti | seb128: hm, find -name 'gstream*' delivers gstreamer-0.10.po, isn't that right? | 07:44 |
| seb128 | pitti: ups, sorry, was already shipped by previous set in fact | 07:44 |
| pitti | Riddell: probably 0ubuntu6 was uploaded while sbuild didn't export tarballs | 07:44 |
| seb128 | I sort of debdiffed | 07:44 |
| Riddell | pitti: ok, I'll do that now | 07:44 |
| seb128 | and noticed gst0.8 droppage but no new gst0.10 :) | 07:44 |
| seb128 | pitti: looks good to me | 07:44 |
| seb128 | pitti: thank you :) | 07:44 |
| Kinnison | sivang: Hmm, try again to dsilvers@digital-scurf.org | 07:44 |
| === seb128 goes for dinner | ||
| sivang | Kinnison: sec | 07:45 |
| pitti | Riddell: alright, I'll build the packs again after that | 07:45 |
| seb128 | pitti: I've installed them and tried some apps, looks fine | 07:45 |
| pitti | seb128: better than before? i. e. with gnome 2.14 love? | 07:45 |
| sivang | Kinnison: sent | 07:46 |
| bddebian | w000t.. Mithrandir, you were soo close | 07:47 |
| bddebian | I needed noapic AND nolapic | 07:48 |
| mvo | does anyone here has a opinion about the free-ness (main ready) of the OFL license ? (http://www.sil.org/OFL) | 07:49 |
| Kinnison | sivang: looks like one has turned up | 07:49 |
| === Kinnison asks evo to offline it | ||
| Kamion | mvo: 404 | 07:52 |
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| mvo | Kamion: *cough* make that http://scripts.sil.org/ofl | 07:55 |
| pitti | seb128, Riddell: current packs look fine to me; I'll build new ones tomorrow then, when amarok is imported | 07:55 |
| sivang | Kinnison: thanks | 07:56 |
| sivang | btw, what's with that erro message from cdrecord - Error: Cannot gain SYS_RAWIO capability.Is cdrecord installed SUID root? | 07:56 |
| sivang | : Operation not permitted | 07:56 |
| Riddell | pitti: no gwenview either, it had the same problem as amarok and was fixed around the same time, I'll re-upload that too for luck | 07:58 |
| pitti | yes, thanks | 07:58 |
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| pitti | Riddell: I can import the two tarballs on their own for a quick test before cranking up the full build | 07:58 |
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| pitti | wow, our installer is really nice - I now have FOUR partitions which are all labeled '/' and gnome-vfs only shows the label | 08:01 |
| pitti | Kamion: any chance to stop labelling the partitions by default? or is that a particular pet feature of you? | 08:02 |
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| mvo | doko: scim seems to work fine in OOwrtie on amd64 (version from today, tested in vmware) | 08:08 |
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| doko | mvo: hmm, nice, so how does scim work? it's an extra layer? I'm just wondering, because the modules in /usr/lib32/gtk-2.0 don't exist ... | 08:21 |
| sivang | pitti: it seems I need to dpkg-reconfigure cdrecord , and enable SUID root for the binaries to make the SYS_RAWIO error message go away. isn't this supposed to be supported without SUID bit set for the latest kernels? | 08:21 |
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| Kamion | pitti: I can't decide between "should use better labels" and "gnome-vfs should be a bit smarter when labels clash" | 08:24 |
| Mithrandir | sabdfl: X fallback on live cd is basically "if we fail to start X, retry with vesa?" | 08:24 |
| Kamion | pitti: I do think the labels are useful - your problem only arises when you have several multiply-booted Linux installs, which I'd venture to suggest is a corner case | 08:24 |
| sabdfl | Mithrandir: i don't know, it's just "don't die horribly" | 08:26 |
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| sabdfl | whether thats "die gracefully and tell the user how to try again with vesa" | 08:27 |
| sabdfl | or "keep things under control and come back to offer alternatives" | 08:27 |
| sabdfl | we should consider free drivers, non-free and vesa | 08:27 |
| Kamion | somebody said the other day that there's a problem using the non-free drivers on the live CD, because they install a version of libGL that's incompatible with the free drivers | 08:28 |
| Kamion | I didn't catch the details, but it seemed to me like it might be relevant here; I think infinity knows more | 08:28 |
| Mithrandir | I could investigate more, in my copious free time. | 08:29 |
| janimo | Kamion, at least fglrx libGL on install diverts the original one, maybe that's what they meant | 08:36 |
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| Kamion | janimo: right | 08:36 |
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| GFDL | in dapper the terminal server client doesn't save advanced settings like local resources (e.g. keyboard setting) or username in the rdp file | 08:46 |
| GFDL | only the computer name is saved | 08:46 |
| GFDL | for complex settings everytime the settings must be reentered | 08:46 |
| LaserJock | GFDL: have you reported/searched for an appropriate bug report? | 08:48 |
| pitti | re | 08:48 |
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| GFDL | I will take a look now, I haven't checked yet | 08:49 |
| GFDL | the .rdp file contains entries for username, etc. but all are empty | 08:49 |
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| seb128 | pitti: not easy to say, I built a lot of stuff on my box so I've a lot of .mo installed | 08:51 |
| seb128 | pitti: so my translations are fine without language pack :) | 08:52 |
| pitti | seb128: heh, true :) | 08:52 |
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| seb128 | Kamion, mdz: GNOME guys got a new libxklavier 2.2 bug fix tarball for GNOME 2.14.0, is that ok to update? | 09:01 |
| seb128 | Kamion, mdz: there is 3 changelog entries since the version we have, all bug fixes so it should be just fine | 09:02 |
| Mithrandir | seb128: would it be hard to make double-clicking a date in the calendar in the clock applet actually open evolution on the right date? | 09:06 |
| seb128 | Mithrandir: it has not been done before because evolution lacked the API to do that | 09:06 |
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| seb128 | Mithrandir: need to check if that's still true | 09:06 |
| Mithrandir | seb128: it appears to have some support for it, but I haven't been able to get the magic incarnations to work yet. | 09:07 |
| seb128 | Mithrandir: upstream bug about that is http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=162305 | 09:07 |
| Ubugtu | gnome2 bug 162305 in clock "Double click should open calendar with date or the task clicked" [Normal,New] | 09:07 |
| seb128 | comment say | 09:07 |
| seb128 | "evolution calendar:///?startdate=FOO | 09:07 |
| seb128 | where FOO is an ISO 8601-compliant UTC time string, it is parsed using | 09:07 |
| seb128 | strftime (ret, 17, "%Y%m%dT%M%SZ", gmtime (&t)); | 09:07 |
| seb128 | For a proof-of-concept, use the shell command | 09:07 |
| seb128 | date +"%Y%m%dT%M%SZ"" | 09:07 |
| seb128 | I've that on my list to try, but ETOOBUSY, etc | 09:08 |
| seb128 | if you want to give it a try you are welcome | 09:08 |
| sivang | pitti: what are the possible ret codes from pmount/pumount? success / failure == 0 / 1 ? | 09:08 |
| sivang | pitti: (man page doesn't talk about it) | 09:08 |
| Mithrandir | seb128: thanks. I didn't get it to work, but I'll investigate. | 09:08 |
| seb128 | Mithrandir: http://mail.gnome.org/archives/evolution-patches/2005-July/msg00154.html too | 09:09 |
| pitti | sivang: I /msg you | 09:09 |
| Mithrandir | seb128: already seen that, but thanks | 09:09 |
| Mithrandir | you know you're running development stuff when apt-get clean frees up 1.2GB. | 09:10 |
| sivang | pitti: thank you :) | 09:11 |
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| stewski | can totem in dapper play css DVDs? | 09:14 |
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| tseng | it can with xine and libdvdcss2 | 09:16 |
| tseng | but not OOTB | 09:16 |
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| stewski | darn | 09:16 |
| _ion | Is anyone working on a network-manager 0.6.1 package for dapper? | 09:16 |
| mdke | i think totem gstreamer plays dvds with libdvdcss2 | 09:17 |
| stewski | so the gstreamer library cannot play | 09:17 |
| stewski | thats what Id thought mdke | 09:17 |
| mdke | not 100% sure though | 09:17 |
| stewski | but its not working | 09:17 |
| mdke | stewski, best try #ubuntu | 09:18 |
| tseng | the dvd plugin wasnt ported to 0.10 last i heard | 09:18 |
| stewski | ] getting the same answer there, didnt like the answer so I came here :-) | 09:18 |
| mdke | tseng, oh geez | 09:19 |
| mjg59 | The dvd plugin is ported, but not fully functional | 09:19 |
| stewski | this is a really common requirement great shame if totem wont be able to even support with plugin DVD playback | 09:19 |
| mdke | mjg59, will it work for dapper you think? | 09:20 |
| mjg59 | mdke: I have no idea | 09:20 |
| mjg59 | seb has been watching the situation | 09:20 |
| mdke | seb128, any idea? If not, we'd better update our guides | 09:20 |
| seb128 | dvd playing works but without menu nor subtitle | 09:21 |
| seb128 | and anyway that's not something we can ship on CD (mpeg decoder, dvdcss, etc) | 09:21 |
| mdke | seb128, sure. I'd make a note of the -menu -subtitle thing in the docs | 09:22 |
| xhaker | dvd state: vcd works.. reading .vob work.. .ifo handling doesn't work.. menus doesn't work.. trackbar is buggy | 09:22 |
| stewski | seb I appreciate dvd playback cant work out of the box | 09:22 |
| mdke | xhaker, thanks. So recommending another library is probably a good idea :) | 09:22 |
| stewski | but totem/gstreamer being able to play DVDs would make it easier long run | 09:23 |
| xhaker | mdke: gstreamer is under the gnome exception? | 09:23 |
| stewski | I read good things about new Gstreamer | 09:23 |
| mdke | stewski, there is nothing we can do if it doesn't work from upstream, except make a note of it | 09:23 |
| mdke | xhaker, you have to ask seb, I dunno | 09:23 |
| stewski | NP mdke I realise (and not trying to detract on some really excelent work for dapper) | 09:24 |
| seb128 | stewski: it'll for sure, it's just not ready yet | 09:25 |
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| seb128 | stewski: code for menu and subtitle is to CVS now, it just lacks the glue to been used by totem | 09:25 |
| stewski | smart | 09:25 |
| stewski | excellent hope the extra time lets this get in | 09:25 |
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| seb128 | the issue is that fluendo guys can't work on that | 09:26 |
| mdke | seb128, ah so it may be in for dapper? | 09:26 |
| seb128 | so they have to wait on contributors fo rit | 09:26 |
| seb128 | for it | 09:26 |
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| seb128 | mdke: might | 09:26 |
| mdke | seb128, when will we know? the docs will get frozen soon | 09:26 |
| seb128 | assume it'll not work | 09:27 |
| mdke | seb128, ok. thanks | 09:27 |
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| Riddell | what is mvo's dist upgrade tool called? | 09:31 |
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| stewski | anyone able to get multichannel sound playback? | 09:37 |
| xhaker | Riddell: i believe it's exactly dist-upgrade | 09:38 |
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| Riddell | xhaker: no such thing in the archives | 09:39 |
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| sladen | what's the best way to tag a bug as a regression? | 09:54 |
| Burgwork | sladen, raise the severity? | 09:55 |
| sladen | Burgwork: I sometimes stick [regression] in the bug title; there must be a better way | 09:56 |
| Burgwork | does malone have bugzilla style keywords? | 09:57 |
| sladen | I thought I saw a 'tag' option somewhere, but I can't find it now that looked; | 09:57 |
| sladen | there is a 'name' option | 09:58 |
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| bddebian | OK, I got install to work, now I get the following error on boot: | 10:09 |
| bddebian | ALERT! /dev/ida/c0d0p2 does not exist, dropping to a shell? | 10:10 |
| sladen | bddebian: so now that you have a shell, what does ls -l /dev/ida show you? | 10:12 |
| bddebian | nada | 10:12 |
| bddebian | No ida dir at all | 10:12 |
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| bddebian | Keybuk: ping? | 10:20 |
| Mithrandir | seb128: it works if I just specify the date, not the time. It appears time_from_isodate in libecal is broken. | 10:26 |
| Mithrandir | seb128: I'm filing a bug now. | 10:26 |
| seb128 | ok, thank you | 10:26 |
| Mithrandir | seb128: is it useful for you to get a patch for the clock applet or is it too trivial for it to save you time? | 10:29 |
| seb128 | patch are always welcome :) | 10:29 |
| seb128 | so I don't forget about it and I'm not tempted to be lazy | 10:30 |
| Mithrandir | ok. :-) | 10:31 |
| Mithrandir | it's one of my pet bugs that's been around for a while, so. | 10:31 |
| Mithrandir | it should also support using Dates instead of Evolution, but that can probably wait for another day. | 10:31 |
| seb128 | right | 10:32 |
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| Mithrandir | hmm, actually, it looks like evo needs a fix to not open another shell if it's just one URI given on the command line. | 10:34 |
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| Keybuk | bddebian: 'sup? | 10:47 |
| bddebian | Keybuk: Possible udev problem? | 10:48 |
| bddebian | ALERT! /dev/ida/c0d0p2 does not exist, dropping to a shell? | 10:48 |
| Keybuk | none that I'm aware of | 10:48 |
| Keybuk | ida? | 10:48 |
| Keybuk | what's that? | 10:48 |
| bddebian | I don't know | 10:48 |
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| dianewong | hello | 10:49 |
| Keybuk | what's your kernel command-line? | 10:49 |
| Mithrandir | i2o | 10:49 |
| seb128 | $ sudo grub-install /dev/hda | 10:49 |
| seb128 | /dev/sda1 does not have any corresponding BIOS drive | 10:49 |
| dianewong | is there any security feature that the ubuntu livecd provides during autologin? | 10:49 |
| seb128 | grumpf | 10:49 |
| bddebian | Give me a sec but I know root is: root=/dev/ida/c0d0p2 | 10:49 |
| seb128 | does anybody knows how to fix that? | 10:49 |
| Mithrandir | or maybe not. That's /dev/i2o, iirc | 10:49 |
| Mithrandir | seb128: rm /boot/grub/device.map so it'll reprobe | 10:49 |
| Keybuk | bddebian: never heard of it | 10:50 |
| zul | there is a grub patch that handles i2o | 10:50 |
| pitti | dianewong: not sure what you mean | 10:50 |
| Mithrandir | zul: ida's not i2o, I jumped the gun | 10:51 |
| dianewong | imagine im on the ubuntu livecd | 10:51 |
| Mithrandir | dianewong: what kind of security features? | 10:51 |
| seb128 | Mithrandir: that was easy, thank you :) | 10:51 |
| dianewong | it autologs to the user "ubuntu" | 10:51 |
| zul | Mithrandir: ah ok | 10:51 |
| seb128 | brb | 10:52 |
| dianewong | does it prevent anyone from internet to drop an eggdrop while im runnin on the livecd ? | 10:52 |
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| Mithrandir | dianewong: it doesn't run ssh and ssh won't allow users with a blank password to log in. | 10:53 |
| dianewong | is the passwd locked ? | 10:53 |
| Mithrandir | so unless you install ssh and change the ssh config or install ssh and set a too simple password, there's no way to get into your session | 10:53 |
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| dianewong | Mithrandir how does it do that? | 10:53 |
| dianewong | can i see the codes that prevents this? | 10:54 |
| tseng | its just like he said, ssh denies users with no password | 10:54 |
| tseng | and also like he said.. ssh doesnt even run to start with | 10:54 |
| tseng | if you run netstat --listen --tcp | 10:54 |
| Mithrandir | dianewong: : tfheen@vawad ~ > grep PermitEmpty /etc/ssh/sshd_config | 10:54 |
| Mithrandir | PermitEmptyPasswords no | 10:54 |
| bddebian | Keybuk: "kernel /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.15-18-i386 root=/dev/ida/c0p0p2 ro noapic nolapic quiet splash" | 10:54 |
| tseng | you will see that the only listening services are bound to the loopback address | 10:54 |
| Keybuk | bddebian: did it work with -17 then? | 10:55 |
| Mithrandir | dianewong: also, there's no ssh daemon listening unless you explicitly install one | 10:55 |
| bddebian | In looking in /proc/modules, I don't think the Compaq SmartArrary 431 is getting picked up | 10:55 |
| bddebian | Keybuk: This is a new install | 10:55 |
| Keybuk | bddebian: is that driver in the initramfs? | 10:55 |
| bddebian | Hmm, I don't know, sorry. How do I look? | 10:55 |
| Keybuk | modprobe? :) | 10:56 |
| bddebian | I don't know which driver it uses? :-( | 10:56 |
| Keybuk | CPQARRAY ? | 10:57 |
| dianewong | thanks | 10:57 |
| bddebian | Probably should be, I'll try it | 10:57 |
| dianewong | another question though | 10:57 |
| Keybuk | try it, see if /dev/ida turns up | 10:57 |
| dianewong | tohow it was ensured that the screensaver never asks for a password | 10:57 |
| ogra | it isnt yet ... | 10:59 |
| ogra | you can currently use "lock screen" | 10:59 |
| bddebian | Keybuk: module cpqarray not found :( | 10:59 |
| Keybuk | iz initramfs bug | 11:00 |
| Keybuk | blame infinity | 11:00 |
| dianewong | ogra: what to you mean ? | 11:00 |
| dianewong | ogra: what do you mean ? | 11:00 |
| marcin` | hello guys - I got strange question and I'm sure that you will send me to #ubuntu | 11:00 |
| ogra | dianewong, it isnt "insured yet" i have a bug open about that behavior | 11:01 |
| marcin` | but I'm also almost sure that anyone on #ubuntu will know solution so please let me try | 11:01 |
| ogra | s/yet"/"yet/ | 11:01 |
| === bddebian blames infinity | ||
| bddebian | OK, so can I fix it? | 11:01 |
| === zul blames canada | ||
| bddebian | zul: :-) | 11:01 |
| marcin` | my problem is - I use Terminus font on Gnome but I also use Ratpoison as WindowManager | 11:01 |
| dianewong | ogra: can i view that bug ? | 11:01 |
| ogra | bddebian, /etc/mkinitramfs/modules | 11:02 |
| ogra | try to add it there | 11:02 |
| bddebian | ogra: OK, thx | 11:02 |
| marcin` | and if I set my font as default for gtk apps in .gtrc then it work on Ratpoison - but not in Mozilla Firefox | 11:02 |
| ogra | and rebuild the initramfs indeed | 11:02 |
| marcin` | could some developer tell me what could be reason of this behaviour? | 11:03 |
| dianewong | ogra: can i view that bug ? | 11:03 |
| ogra | dianewong, yes, sorry, took a second | 11:03 |
| ogra | bug 30118 | 11:03 |
| Ubugtu | malone bug 30118 in gnome-screensaver "LiveCD: default user password, lock screen problem" [Normal,Unconfirmed] http://launchpad.net/bugs/30118 | 11:03 |
| bddebian | ogra: I don't have that dir, or do I need to boot install CD and mount it ? | 11:04 |
| ogra | oh, yes, chroot into the system indeed | 11:05 |
| bddebian | Hmm | 11:05 |
| ogra | (rescue mode might do it) | 11:06 |
| bddebian | OK I'll try. How do I rebuild initramfs? | 11:06 |
| Keybuk | update-initramfs -u | 11:06 |
| bddebian | thanks | 11:06 |
| dianewong | thanks ogra | 11:06 |
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| mjg59 | sladen: No, the copying ought to be there | 11:07 |
| mjg59 | Also, I'm not sure about the panel stuff. Surely that's Intel-specific? Do we have any idea what that would do on other hardware? | 11:08 |
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| ogra | Mithrandir, would it be possible to add widescreen resolutions to the liveCD bootmenu ? | 11:10 |
| Mithrandir | ogra: you realise they're not used by X? | 11:11 |
| Mithrandir | it's just for console | 11:11 |
| ogra | sadly, yes ... | 11:11 |
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| mjg59 | ogra: No | 11:11 |
| mjg59 | ogra: They're VESA modes | 11:11 |
| seb128 | Mithrandir: still around? | 11:11 |
| Mithrandir | seb128: yes | 11:11 |
| mjg59 | ogra: Widescreen ones aren't standardised, to the best of my knowledge | 11:12 |
| ogra | mjg59, like video=vesafb:mtrr1280x800-16@72 ? | 11:12 |
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| seb128 | Mithrandir: you craked on xkb stuff right? did you look on xkeyboard-config 0.6 to 0.8 update? I've just built it and tried, it fixed the gnome-settings-daemon when using multiple layouts or compose option by example and add a good bunch of new layouts that could be useful for the l10n goal | 11:12 |
| mjg59 | ogra: No... | 11:13 |
| seb128 | Mithrandir: if you didn't I'll ask an UVF for it I think | 11:13 |
| ogra | ah, k | 11:13 |
| mjg59 | ogra: VESAfb can't change mode. That's done by the bootloader or the kernel startup code (I can't remember which) | 11:13 |
| Mithrandir | seb128: I haven't looked at it at all, no. I'm probably going to rush through it tomorrow while waving my amazing Korean keyboard. | 11:13 |
| ogra | ah, k | 11:13 |
| Mithrandir | seb128: could we take a look at it tomorrow? | 11:13 |
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| Tonio_ | Kamion: ping ? | 11:14 |
| Mithrandir | seb128: given that I'm on my way to bed now. | 11:14 |
| Tonio_ | hi everyone | 11:14 |
| seb128 | Mithrandir: sure, I can ask the UVF exception if you want, it was just to not dup work | 11:14 |
| Mithrandir | seb128: sure, take the lock on xkb-c and run with it. | 11:15 |
| seb128 | lol | 11:15 |
| Mithrandir | seb128: also, if you could take a look at the evo patch I just posted (#35118) we're a bit closer to the "make the clock applet's integration with evo be way better" | 11:15 |
| seb128 | I'm happy to give the lock if you want it :) I just want the new version for dapper since it fixes the g-s-d crasher which is one of the frequent GNOME users complain we have | 11:15 |
| seb128 | will do, thank you | 11:16 |
| Mithrandir | seb128: either way works for me. | 11:16 |
| Mithrandir | seb128: I'll review it tomorrow and ask for UVF, then. | 11:16 |
| seb128 | ok, thank you | 11:16 |
| Mithrandir | see you around. | 11:16 |
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| bddebian | ogra or Keybuk: OK, I added cpqarray to /tmpmnt/mkinitramfs/modules but I can't find update-initramfs ? | 11:17 |
| seb128 | Mithrandir: 'night | 11:17 |
| bddebian | Err /tmpmnt/etc/mkinitramfs/modules even :-) | 11:18 |
| ogra | hmm ... | 11:18 |
| ogra | do you have a separate /usr ? | 11:19 |
| ogra | /usr/sbin/update-initramfs | 11:19 |
| bddebian | Well / is the ramdisk, should it be there? | 11:19 |
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| bddebian | I don't see it in /tmpmnt/usr/sbin/ | 11:19 |
| ogra | hmm, its in initramfs-tools usually ... | 11:20 |
| ogra | which should be installed ... | 11:21 |
| sladen | mjg59: 915resolution is intel-specific, and that's the only use-case. The function it uses is defined by VESA as part of their Liquid-Flat-Panel extensions | 11:23 |
| mjg59 | sladen: But you'e given me a patch for vbetool | 11:24 |
| mjg59 | So, uhm. | 11:24 |
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| mjg59 | Or do you mean you want to call vbetool from 915resolution? | 11:25 |
| sladen | mjg59: yes, see http://www.paul.sladen.org/ubuntu/upload/915resolution_0.5-1ubuntu2panelid2.debdiff | 11:25 |
| sladen | mjg59: auto-detect magic for 915resolution | 11:25 |
| mjg59 | sladen: Also, the HP stuff is still wrong. | 11:26 |
| mjg59 | You're just resetting what's already there | 11:26 |
| mjg59 | So my suspicion is that the Compaq ones there are also fine | 11:26 |
| bddebian | ogra: OK, I lied, I found it in /tmpmnt/usr/sbin | 11:26 |
| pitti | Riddell: amarok and gwenview translations have arrived | 11:27 |
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| bddebian | But it didn't seem to work. Can I specify /tmpmnt/boot/initrd.img with update-initramfs? | 11:27 |
| pitti | Riddell: I'll just have some troubles with gwenview, it has yet another different format for storing translations, so this needs manual special-casing in langpack-o-matic | 11:28 |
| bddebian | I.E. something like /tmpmnt/usr/sbin/update-initramfs -u /tmpmnt/boot/initrd.img ? | 11:28 |
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| ogra | chroot /tmpmnt update-initramfs -u | 11:30 |
| bddebian | Oh duh.. :-) | 11:30 |
| bddebian | Well it'll have to wait until tomorrow or I'm getting an ass-whiping from the wife. | 11:31 |
| bddebian | THanks ogra and Keybuk. | 11:31 |
| sladen | mjg59: which particular part of the HP stuff? dmi strings, mappings, ..? | 11:31 |
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| mjg59 | sladen: The mappings | 11:32 |
| sladen | mjg59: I can run a awk over and comment out any that are setting $value to $value | 11:33 |
| mjg59 | sladen: Ok | 11:33 |
| mjg59 | +setkeycodese05f$KEY_SLEEP# Fn+F3Sleep(matches compaq.hk) | 11:33 |
| mjg59 | That's a noop | 11:33 |
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| === Keybuk boggles at the "1280x1024 is an abomination" people | ||
| _ion | Well, it's perfectly fine if you have a 5:4 monitor. | 11:48 |
| Keybuk | which most people do | 11:48 |
| _ion | Most people have a 4:3 monitor. | 11:48 |
| Keybuk | certainly nearly everyone who'd have that as a recommend resolution has a 5:4 monitor | 11:48 |
| Keybuk | no | 11:49 |
| Keybuk | TFTs are nearly always 5:4 | 11:49 |
| === Keybuk hands _ion a ruler | ||
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| === mkrufky is now known as mkrufky-gone | ||
| _ion | Maybe TFTs are more popular in your country than. | 11:49 |
| Keybuk | most CRTs are 5:4 too | 11:49 |
| === _ion hands keybuk a ruler. :-) | ||
| HrdwrBoB | most people I know have TFTs | 11:49 |
| Keybuk | the really old ones probably aren't, but those can't do 1280x1024 either :) | 11:50 |
| Keybuk | I've never seen a 4:3 19" CRT, or TFT | 11:50 |
| sladen | mjg59: e05f is 223, the code kernel code is 142 | 11:50 |
| mjg59 | sladen: There is not a linear mapping between these two things | 11:50 |
| Keybuk | (that's not to say they don't exist, of course) | 11:50 |
| HrdwrBoB | dimensions: 1600x1200 pixels (402x302 millimeters) | 11:51 |
| mjg59 | Keybuk: See drivers/input/keyboard/atkbd.c | 11:51 |
| mjg59 | Uh. | 11:52 |
| mjg59 | sladen: ^ | 11:52 |
| mjg59 | (sorry) | 11:52 |
| mjg59 | sladen: atkbd_set2_keycode[223] =142 | 11:52 |
| Keybuk | HrdwrBoB: what's the pixel pitch of that? does it have non-square pixels? | 11:54 |
| Keybuk | (which a lot of CRTs have) | 11:54 |
| mjg59 | Keybuk: CRTs don't have pixels... | 11:54 |
| sladen | mjg59: okay, based on that I have to grep drivers/input/keyboard/atkbd.c instead... oooh the indirection turns me on | 11:54 |
| Keybuk | mjg59: uh, right | 11:54 |
| Keybuk | is "dot pitch" the right term? | 11:54 |
| Keybuk | something like that | 11:54 |
| HrdwrBoB | yes | 11:54 |
| Keybuk | hardware is not my best field :p | 11:54 |
| HrdwrBoB | I can't remember the numbers, but it's enough | 11:55 |
| HrdwrBoB | 21" trinitron CRT | 11:55 |
| HrdwrBoB | 0.24mm Aperture grille pitch | 11:55 |
| mjg59 | Keybuk: The phosphor dots may be non-square, but it's desirable to use square pixels most of the time | 11:55 |
| mjg59 | 1280x1024 is strange in that respect | 11:55 |
| Keybuk | I do know that 1280x1024 is almost always suggested for TFTs, which are 5:4 | 11:55 |
| mjg59 | Since it's the only "standard" mode that gives non-square pixels on 4:3 CRTs | 11:55 |
| mjg59 | What shape the TFT is is unimportant. Using anything other than the native resolution is insane. | 11:56 |
| Keybuk | CRTs tend to suggest 1152x864 or 1600x1200 instead | 11:56 |
| HrdwrBoB | exactly | 11:56 |
| mjg59 | There was a phase of 1280x1024 | 11:56 |
| mjg59 | It was popular for a long time before TFTs were | 11:56 |
| Keybuk | would have thought a CRT would suggest 1280x960 instead | 11:56 |
| mjg59 | Nope | 11:56 |
| mjg59 | No idea why | 11:56 |
| HrdwrBoB | yes, most 19" monitors suggest 1280x1024 | 11:56 |
| Keybuk | kooky | 11:56 |
| Keybuk | still doesn't make it an abomination, given it's not only the native resolution of most 19" TFTs but also the only correct aspect one :) | 11:57 |
| HrdwrBoB | it's also the native resolution of most 17" TFTs | 11:58 |
| HrdwrBoB | which means 19" TFTs annoying and pointless imho | 11:58 |
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| Keybuk | I find the 17" too "high res" | 11:58 |
| HrdwrBoB | there is no such thing | 11:58 |
| Surak | hello | 11:58 |
| === Lathiat has 19s, i have 1680x1050 on my 15.4" widescreen tho and thats too high res for me, it looks nice tho :) | ||
| Keybuk | you get less screen space on a 17" with the same (ruler) size fonts as on a 19" monitor | 11:59 |
| Surak | which is the person I need to talk to to have ubugtu in #ubuntu-br? | 11:59 |
| Keybuk | pixel size, the fonts on a 17" are smaller than on a 19" | 11:59 |
| Keybuk | for those of us with wonky eyesight, that's a bad thing <g> | 11:59 |
| ogra | Surak, Seveas | 11:59 |
| Surak | ogra: thanks | 12:00 |
| Keybuk | whatever your dad told you, size *is* important ;) | 12:00 |
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| HrdwrBoB | yeah, the 19" is bigger, but I'd rather go up to the 20" where suddenly you get 1600x1200 or whatever | 12:00 |
| Keybuk | see, that's my reason for *not* going to the 20" - because then everything would get too small for me to see | 12:00 |
| HrdwrBoB | couldn't you just increase the font size? | 12:00 |
| Keybuk | font size doesn't increase the width of things like the cursor bar | 12:01 |
| Keybuk | or the width of scrollbars, etc. | 12:01 |
| HrdwrBoB | this is why everything should be scalable and zoomable.. the dot pitch of your display should be independant of the size of the interface | 12:01 |
| Keybuk | sadly most of those things are still fixed size in pixels, which is silly | 12:01 |
| HrdwrBoB | that said, I do a lot of work on my X40 which has small pixels and size 8 fonts | 12:01 |
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