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[12:57] <j^> whats the state of ubuntu on intel mac minis?
[12:57] <Burgwork> j^, currently waiting elilo work, afaik. Ask mjg59 for a more definative answer
[12:58] <natroll> give me a mac mini and i'll help out :D
[12:59] <j^> i just got one, wanted to get a powerpc but they are out of stock
[12:59] <Amaranth> mjg59 has dapper booting and working more or less right on the imac
[01:00] <j^> i saw that, was just wondering if there is more info than the image with red wine :)
[01:00] <jdub> j^: sweet
[01:01] <Amaranth> the extra six weeks should give mjg59 a chance to get his stuff in, right? :)
[01:01] <LaserJock> ohh, I can't wait until I can get K/Ubuntu on this thing :)
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[01:18] <mjg59> Amaranth: We just need a binutils that can build a bootloader
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=== jdong gasps
[01:23] <jdong> are we down to a stock 1 minute boot time?!
[01:26] <natroll--> 1017 packages to upgrade to dapper from a stock x86 breezy
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[02:08] <mike_douglas> Hey, I ran into a fairly serious bug in gnome-terminal that just appeared today. All curses applications no longer work. Can anyone else confirm this?
[02:09] <crimsun> no, alsamixer -c0 works fine here.
[02:10] <jdub> mike_douglas: which apps in particular?
[02:10] <mike_douglas> ncmpc and irssi
[02:11] <crimsun> irssi works fine here, too.
[02:11] <jdub> irssi looks fine here
[02:11] <mike_douglas> hmm, probably a local problem then, thanks.
[02:12] <jdub> mike_douglas: worth tracking though
[02:12] <mike_douglas> Yeah, I'll write something up. Resizing the window seems to fix it.
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[02:17] <sladen> mjg59: can you upload the known working elilo and the duff elilo somewhere?  I'd like to have a poke at them and see if there's anything obviously different
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[02:38] <Burgwork> ok, Ubuntu needs to get another X guru
[02:41] <LaserJock> ?
[02:42] <Burgwork> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-input-synaptics/+bug/28648/
[02:42] <Ubugtu> malone bug 28648 in xserver-xorg-input-synaptics "Slow movement regression of synaptics touchpad on v0.14.3+seriouslythistime" [Normal,Confirmed]  
[02:42] <ajmitch> Burgwork: you don't want to step up for the job?
[02:42] <Burgwork> does it involve code?
[02:43] <infinity> sladen: http://www.codon.org.uk/~mjg59/tmp/efi/
[02:43] <jdub> hrm
[02:43] <jdub> every now and then, the screensaver is kicking in
[02:44] <Burgwork> noticed that as well
[02:44] <infinity> jdub: Yeah, some of us have had that bug for months, others seem to have just contracted it (so, possibly two slightly different but very similar bugs)
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[02:45] <jdub> i have been really slack about filing bugs so far during dapper
[02:46] <bddebian> Lamer
[02:46] <bddebian> :-)
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=== bddebian wonders if jbailey is STILL on that support call? :-)
[02:51] <LaserJock> so are we going to have an macintel install party?
[02:51] <bddebian> *cough*
=== tritium will simply be satisfied to finally have ubunt on his iMac G5
[02:52] <bddebian> Nice
[02:52] <tritium> ubuntu even ;)
[02:52] <LaserJock> I've been waiting to get Ubuntu on this baby
[02:52] <LaserJock> I've got lots of Gigs to dual boot with
[02:53] <infinity> "I've got lots of Gigs"... That just sounds strange.
[02:53] <jdub> infinity: we'll upgrade your 386 soon.
[02:54] <bddebian> heh
[02:54] <infinity> It was more the descriptive fragment without a noun to go with it.
[02:54] <LaserJock> infinity: hmm, does it? sorry if my English is bad. I'm a native speaker ;)
[02:54] <infinity> Lots of gigs of WHAT?
[02:54] <LaserJock> hard disk space
[02:55] <infinity> jdub: s/i386/m68k/ ... And thpt. :)
[02:55] <infinity> (And I did just upgrade, from a 68060 to a ColdFire...)
[02:55] <bddebian> LaserJock: :-)
[02:55] <infinity> (Though the ColdFire doesn't have "lots of gigs")
[02:55] <tritium> hmm, there's already an ubuntu affiliate in AZ, which is only one state away...
[02:55] <bddebian> Well at least it wasn't a 68030
[02:56] <LaserJock> tritium: ?
[02:56] <tritium> LaserJock: http://www.ubuntu.com/support/marketplace/northernamerica
[02:57] <LaserJock> tritium: meet in Phoenix? ;-)
[02:57] <tritium> LaserJock: any time, friend :)
[02:58] <LaserJock> tritium: maybe we should have a Southwest US loco team 
[02:59] <tritium> Precisely what I've been contemplating, LaserJock
[02:59] <minghua> LaserJock: hey, I could be in that team too!  (/me waves from Houston)
[02:59] <LaserJock> minghua's over at Rice. maybe we can claim him too ;-)
[02:59] <LaserJock> lol
[03:00] <minghua> there you go :-)
[03:00] <tritium> definitely :)
[03:01] <LaserJock> or maybe it is just the MOTU Science loco team ;-)
[03:01] <Kyral> meh I'm in New York
[03:02] <LaserJock> robotgeek is at UT-Arlington
[03:02] <tritium> I think he moved to Boston...
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[03:05] <LaserJock> Kyral: you apparently need to move West
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[05:22] <LaserJock> hi minghua 
[05:22] <minghua> hello LaserJock 
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[06:03] <xBeatrix> hello. can anybody help me with remastering?
[06:04] <xBeatrix> :-/:(:-[
[06:05] <LaserJock> xBeatrix: you might google or search wiki.ubuntu.com . I'm not sure if you'll get much here right now
[06:08] <xBeatrix> i did. i came across this: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/InstallCDCustomizationHowTo
[06:08] <xBeatrix> followed the instructions but got some errors
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[08:49] <dholbach> good morning
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[09:04] <highvoltage> morning, dholbach 
[09:05] <dholbach> hey highvoltage
[09:16] <tepsipakki> dholbach: hi! do you think zsh-beta could be synced from debian?-) They've released version 4.3.2 which has better utf8-support.. zsh-beta is in universe
[09:17] <dholbach> tepsipakki: if it's a new upstream version, it requires a report
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[09:18] <tepsipakki> dholbach: a bug report against it?
[09:18] <pitti> Good morning
[09:18] <dholbach> tepsipakki: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2006-February/000545.html
[09:18] <tepsipakki> hmm, I should probably subscribe to u-m
[09:19] <ajmitch> morning pitti 
[09:20] <pitti> hi ajmitch, how are you?
[09:21] <ajmitch> good, how are you this morning?
[09:21] <pitti> pretty breezy :)
[09:21] <tepsipakki> how about the libpam-krb5 sync from debian (1.2.0-1 -> -2), where should I report that?
[09:23] <minghua> tepsipakki: that does NOT need any special report for approval AFAIK
[09:23] <dholbach> tepsipakki: same
[09:23] <dholbach> ah ok
[09:23] <dholbach> no, now i understand, yes, what minghua said
[09:24] <irvin> hi devs! is there work underway to have a one-stop hardware compatability list for ubuntu?
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[09:25] <Burgundavia> irvin: thoughts, but nothing underway that i have heard of
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[09:27] <irvin> it would be nice to have one though.... /me scans forums and wiki
[09:27] <irvin> thanks Burgundavia
[09:27] <tepsipakki> minghua: ok, but who should I ping to get it sync'd, elmo?
[09:27] <minghua> tepsipakki: that part I am never sure of
[09:28] <minghua> tepsipakki: sync'ing seems to be broken right now, I heard the currect accepted workaround is "fakesync"
[09:28] <minghua> tepsipakki: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2006-March/000572.html
[09:29] <tepsipakki> minghua: ok, I _really_ need to subscribe :)
[09:29] <tepsipakki> thanks
[09:32] <pitti> mjg59: ping
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[09:39] <Mithrandir> ogra: the suspend bug has returned.
[09:39] <Mithrandir> ogra: also, it seems like gnome-screensaver-preferences can't actually change the prefs when g-s goes into that mode.
[09:49] <doko> good morning
[09:49] <ajmitch> morning doko 
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[10:14] <highvoltage> dholbach: sorry, i'm working as hard as i can on it
[10:14] <dholbach> highvoltage: hm?
[10:14] <highvoltage> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/BugsForExtraPoints <- #1
[10:14] <dholbach> ah nice :)
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[10:22] <G0SUB> are there any known issues with X locking up in Dapper?
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[10:37] <mvo> ping Kamion
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[10:38] <G0SUB> are there any known issues of X locking up in dapper?
[10:38] <elkbuntu> G0SUB, dont repeat your question like that in here. people in here really are quite busy
[10:38] <hunger> Anyone else having trouble upgrading ubuntu-artwork in dapper?
[10:38] <G0SUB> elkbuntu: I understand ... 
[10:39] <mdke> G0SUB, search the bugtracker, and if you don't find one, report the bug and a developer will look at it
=== hunger has no /etc/alternatives/x-cursor-theme and wonders whether he needs to report that.
[10:39] <elkbuntu> hunger, it's better to report it and have it rejected
[10:39] <G0SUB> mdke: how can I do that from the console?
[10:40] <hunger> elkbuntu: OK... I'll venture into the darkness called LP again:-(
[10:40] <G0SUB> mdke: were there any X updates today? everything was fine before
[10:40] <elkbuntu> G0SUB, does 'startx' get you into gnome at all?
[10:41] <G0SUB> elkbuntu: when I start GDM I get a blank screen ... and the lockup is logged in the Xorg logs
[10:41] <mdke> G0SUB, you can't do it from the console. Maybe use your stable system to do it
[10:42] <G0SUB> heh, I have only one system :(
[10:42] <elkbuntu> G0SUB, do you have ssh or a webserver installed?
[10:42] <G0SUB> elkbuntu: ssh yes
[10:42] <G0SUB> elkbuntu: I am giving you the exact Xorg logs
[10:43] <elkbuntu> G0SUB, hmm?
[10:43] <G0SUB> Error in I830WaitLpRing()
[10:44] <G0SUB> looks like a driver issue?
[10:44] <elkbuntu> G0SUB, it'd be better to get the whole logs for the devs to have a look through, rather than just one line
[10:45] <G0SUB> yes, since I am in the console, I can't copy paste ... I am uploading it to a server
[10:45] <sivang> morning all!
[10:45] <pitti> hey sivang 
[10:46] <sivang> pitti: Hi Martin :)
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[10:46] <mdke> G0SUB, this is more for #ubuntu, but you can copy and paste if you install "gpm" from universe
[10:47] <G0SUB> ok
[10:48] <G0SUB> http://zope.gnowledge.org:8080/Xorg.0.log
[10:48] <ogra> Mithrandir, meh :(
[10:50] <G0SUB> hello sivang !
[10:50] <Kamion> mvo: yes?
[10:51] <G0SUB> elkbuntu: did you check the log?
[10:51] <mvo> Kamion: we don't do thai currently in the installer as a language in language-chooser, right?
[10:52] <Kamion> folks, please use dpkg-buildpackage/debuild's -v option when you're building fake sync uploads
[10:52] <Kamion> check that the .changes file lists all the changes since the last version in Ubuntu
[10:52] <Kamion> mvo: no - there are no translations yet so it hasn't been added
[10:53] <Kamion> at least some level of translation is a prerequisite there I think
[10:53] <mvo> Kamion: ok, thanks
[10:53] <Kamion> but it's no problem to add it once that's there
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[10:55] <sivang> hey G0SUB 
[10:55] <elkbuntu> G0SUB, were you by any chance using totem-xine?
[10:58] <elkbuntu> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-driver-i810/+bug/22741 is the bug G0SUB has, tell him if he returns
[10:58] <Ubugtu> malone bug 22741 in xserver-xorg-driver-i810 "I830WaitLpRing() lockup" [Major,Confirmed]  
[11:02] <doko> funny, the OOo spellchecker proposes as a correction for "Breezy Badger" -> "Brezel Bagger"
[11:03] <dholbach> hahaha
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[11:05] <ogra> haha, seems i finally have a track for the flickering screensaver :)
[11:05] <ogra> morning mdz
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[11:09] <seb128> doko: do you know about that: http://ploum.fritalk.com/ooo_bug.png ?
[11:09] <Treenaks> Rectangular
[11:11] <ogra> jordi, ping
[11:11] <jordi> pong
[11:11] <ogra> jordi, you had the flicker in your screensaver, right ? 
[11:12] <jordi> yeah
[11:12] <jordi> let me try now to see how's it going
[11:12] <ogra> can you install the xscreensaver package and do a test for me  ?
[11:12] <jordi> 2.14.0-0ubuntu1 didn't change anything
[11:12] <jordi> sure
[11:13] <doko> seb128: nice
[11:13] <ogra> just run the settings app (no need to start xscreensaver if it complains) and go to a GL screensaver ...
[11:13] <ogra> GLText for example
[11:13] <doko> seb128: remove one font after the other, to find out, which font is missing the glyphs
[11:14] <ogra> then go to settings->advanced, and pick visual = Default from the pulldown list ...
[11:14] <ogra> or Default-N
[11:14] <ogra> does it flicker in xscreensaver as well then ? 
[11:14] <seb128> doko: what font?
[11:14] <seb128> doko: that's like the font is missing every single glyph :p
[11:14] <ogra> (mdz said you see it in the preview already)
[11:15] <doko> seb128: that's not uncommon with indic, tamil, ...
[11:16] <seb128> I blame mvo so
[11:17] <doko> seb128: iz no gtk bug!
[11:19] <jordi> ogra: all is smooth
[11:19] <jordi> GLText is smooth
[11:19] <ogra> no flicker ? 
[11:19] <jordi> all the rest are too
[11:19] <jordi> ya
[11:19] <ogra> hm :(
[11:19] <jordi> let me try GLText in g-s
[11:19] <ogra> even if you set visual = default and preview it ? 
[11:19] <jordi> oh I missed that bit
[11:19] <jordi> wait
[11:20] <ogra> or default-n
[11:20] <ogra> seems our g-s-s doesnt know the GL visual ... (no idea how to teach it to use that, but i'll find out if its reproducable)
[11:22] <jordi> ogra: aha, flicker
[11:22] <ogra> YAY \o/
[11:22] <ogra> oki, so i have a track, thanks jordi :)
[11:22] <jordi> yay
[11:24] <doko> mvo: ping
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[11:27] <pitti> wb mdz 
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[11:30] <netstar> what happened to ld.so.conf?
[11:32] <mvo> doko: hello, I got your question yesterday, but the sprint keeps me *very* busy
[11:32] <mvo> doko: sorry for this, I may try to look at the issue again today
[11:34] <Mez> erm
[11:35] <Mez> seb128, ping
[11:35] <seb128> Mez: pong
[11:35] <Mez> seb128, ubuntu-artwork is causing errors on upgrade for me
[11:35] <seb128> Mez: I knew you were going to ask that
[11:35] <Mez> seb128, known problem?
[11:35] <seb128> we got already 3 bugs about that, and it was fixed before reading the bugs
[11:35] <Mez> ;)
[11:35] <Mez> fair enough
[11:35] <Mez> I'll go away then
[11:36] <seb128> you guys are update manics, it's incredible
[11:36] <seb128> :)
[11:36] <elkbuntu> seb128, sabdfl sorta lit a bonfire under them
[11:39] <Mez> seb128, well since I've had adept-notifier I update as soon as possible
[11:39] <Mez> I hate the "new updates waiting" icon
[11:39] <Mez> reminds me too much of windows
[11:39] <seb128> update-notifier doesn't do hourly packages list update, does it?
[11:39] <elkbuntu> Mez, at least it doesnt just do them then tell you every 10 mins to reboot
[11:40] <ploum> ehe :-)  I like very much the Frankenstein-Launchpad post !
[11:40] <Mez> seb128: not too sure
[11:40] <Mez> I think I have that in my root's crontab
[11:41] <seb128> Mez: anyway a quick look to launchpad before asking is appreciate, because if 100 people ping me at every bugs that's an issue
[11:41] <Mez> seb128: apologies :D
[11:41] <Seveas> seb128, I'm sure you could handle that
[11:41] <Mez> but trying to find bugs in that thing is amazingly hard
=== Seveas runs
[11:41] <Mez> seb128, plus I thought it was an issue due to running kubuntu
[11:42] <seb128> Mez: if you know the package is not that hard, but whatever :)
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[11:42] <mvo> seb128: update-notifier does it daily, no idea about this adept thing
[11:42] <Mez> seb128, lol ;)
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[11:42] <doko> dholbach: are you doing example content?
[11:42] <dholbach> yes, together with heno - he did the selection
[11:44] <doko> dholbach: asking, if we could/should promote openclipart from universe to main ... 
[11:45] <dholbach> doko: in fact heno wanted to drop the cliparts from example-content again
[11:45] <dholbach> as it grew too big
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[11:45] <dholbach> hey sabdfl
[11:45] <sabdfl> howdy all
[11:45] <Mez> mvo: this code looks a little scary
[11:45] <Mez>     m_timer->start( 1000*60 ); // 60 secs for now
[11:45] <doko> dholbach: yes, it's 140MB, we should not ship it
[11:46] <dholbach> doko: i referred to example-content, but yeah :)
[11:46] <Mez> mvo: though it only checks the apt-cache stamp
[11:46] <seb128> hi sabdfl
[11:46] <Mez> (and status)
[11:46] <Mez> Morning Mark
[11:48] <sabdfl> hi there seb128, all settled down from last week?
[11:48] <ploum> seb128: the bogus font (if any) seems to be ttf-opensymbol
[11:48] <ploum> but I can't remove it : http://pastebin.com/603232
[11:48] <seb128> doko: for you 
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[11:49] <mvo> Mez: not my code :P feel free to send bugreports
[11:49] <mvo> Mez: update-notifier uses gnome-vfs monitor feature to do the same
[11:49] <Mez> mvo: no - I know it's not your code - I was referring to you saying you didnt know how often adept-notifier updated itself
[11:49] <seb128> sabdfl: yeah mostly, GNOME 2.14.0 has landed to dapper, now I've some good bug backlog to fight :)
[11:50] <mvo> Mez: ah, right :) 
[11:50] <ploum> "'m not sure that releasing a product named "Drake" is a good idea in a H5 bird flu context." 
[11:50] <sabdfl> seb128: the good fight :-)
=== ploum rolls on the floor :-)
[11:50] <Mez> ploum, where did that come from ?
[11:50] <ploum> Mez: from the ubuntu-devel list !
[11:50] <mvo> lol
[11:50] <ploum> That was a serious message !
[11:50] <Mez> whats the Message Subject?
[11:50] <seb128> sabdfl: right ;) 
[11:50] <jordi> heh, that makes it even funnier
[11:51] <ploum> Mez: "Dapper Drake and Bird Flu"
[11:51] <Mez> nvm - got it
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[11:51] <Mez> and all we need to do is get mark to change his mind and say it's a dragon ;)
[11:51] <Mez> :P
[11:51] <doko> seb128: can you reproduce that on your machine?
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[11:52] <ploum> Mez: making Mark change his mind is sometimes harder than reimplementing the whole operating system ;-)
[11:52] <seb128> doko: no, but I've a bunch of other font packages ploum doesn't has
[11:52] <Mez> ploum, I know - I've heard
[11:52] <gwenald> will ubuntu adopt linspire's click'n'run after all?
[11:52] <seb128> ploum: why do you think it's ttf-opensymbol ?
[11:53] <seb128> ploum: sudo apt-get -f install ?
[11:53] <Kamion> gwenald: why would we want to do that? it's tied into linspire's business model
[11:53] <ploum> seb128, doko : because I removed all the other fonts and I still have the bug. Also, I cannot remove this package, I don't understand (apt-get -f does nothing)
[11:54] <gwenald> Kamion: i don't want that to happen. i only fear that would happen and i am anxious to know whether it will or not.
[11:54] <ploum> but it's maybe not a font that is missing instead
[11:54] <Kamion> gwenald: seems unlikely
[11:54] <Kamion> gwenald: AFAIK there are no plans for it
[11:54] <gwenald> kagou: cool then
[11:54] <Kamion> gwenald: where did you hear this?
[11:55] <gwenald> Kamion: osnews, iirc
[11:55] <Mez> hmm
[11:55] <Mez> jdub's not gonna be around now is he?
[11:55] <seb128> ploum: sudo apt-get install openoffice.org-l10n-en-us ?
[11:55] <Kamion> gwenald: ... ok ;-)
[11:55] <ploum> seb128: already installed
[11:55] <doko> ploum: could you move (or remove) your ~/.openoffice* folder, restart OOo and try again?
[11:56] <ploum> doko: ok, let's do it
[11:56] <seb128> ploum: your pastebin message makes no sense
[11:56] <ploum> seb128: it's not "mine", it's the apt message I've got, I swear ! :-)
[11:57] <ploum> interesting, I've four .openoffice* : .openoffice/                   .openoffice.org1.9.milestone/
[11:57] <ploum> .openoffice.org1.9.103/        .openoffice.org2/
[11:57] <jdub> Mez: what can i help you with?
[11:57] <Mez> jdub: Planet RSS feed seems to be not working
[11:58] <ploum> jdub: indeed. It's the hackergotchi that brokes the RSS 
[11:58] <jdub> oh, really?
[11:58] <ploum> doko: removed without any change
[11:58] <jdub> i'll have a look - thanks
[11:59] <gwenald> Kamion: you're mentioning linspire's business model, but what is ubuntu's?
[11:59] <doko> ploum: strange, can you reproduce it from the live CD?
[12:00] <ploum> doko: arf, no live CD here. I will try this later
[12:01] <Kamion> gwenald: it's probably easiest for me to point to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarkShuttleworth to answer that
[12:01] <ploum> thanks for interest ;-)
[12:01] <Kamion> gwenald: there are long responses there from Mark to a number of questions along those lines
[12:02] <Mez> ffs - people annoy me
[12:03] <mvo> Kamion: for the "please run langauage-selector" you will need to put a file in /var/lib/update-notifier/user.d/
[12:04] <doko> seb128: do you know which glyph is used for the dot in the login screen?
[12:04] <Kamion> mvo: what deals with removing those files?
[12:05] <seb128> doko: that's not only the login screen, gksudo does the same, a sec
[12:05] <mvo> Kamion: nothing, it will use the time-stamp to figure if it needs to be displayed or not
[12:05] <Kamion> mvo: hmm, it would be preferable if language-selector could install that file, and the installer could just say "display it if it's there, please"
[12:06] <Kamion> that way I don't have to hardcode stuff about the language selector into the installer
[12:06] <Kamion> well, not too much ...
[12:06] <seb128> doko: U+25CF BLACK CIRCLE
[12:06] <Kamion> but I guess having the installer do it is possible too
[12:06] <seb128> doko: 0x25cf so
[12:07] <mvo> Kamion: well, does the install know if it can't install a language complettely?
[12:08] <sabdfl> gwenald: also, cast your eyes over http://geekz.co.uk/lovesraymond/archive/cancomical-lynchpad
[12:08] <minghua> mvo: do you think it's worth doing to make scim provide the im-switch support so that each scim module doesn't need to create their own?
[12:08] <Kamion> mvo: yes
[12:08] <mvo> minghua: not sure, it depends on how much work it is to make a generic one for scim
[12:09] <mvo> Kamion: if you know that, it would be enough to create a file in this dir with: "please run language selector to complete the install" (I can send you a file with the correct format)
[12:09] <minghua> mvo: from what I see, all im-switch support from module packages are almost identical
=== sivang -> back
[12:09] <minghua> mvo: I am asking because I am planning to work on im-switch support of scim-tables
[12:10] <mvo> minghua: then it is probably a good idea, maybe have one generic and make it possible for the tables to overwrite it
[12:10] <minghua> mvo: and it turns out to be identical to the one I wrote for scim-hangule
[12:10] <minghua> s/scim-hangule/scim-hangul/
[12:11] <minghua> mvo: it's generally safe anyway since the module packages can still use their own if they want
[12:11] <minghua> mvo: it's not like this approach is going to break anything
[12:11] <Kamion> mvo: I think I can grok it from existing files in that directory
[12:12] <ploum> doko: seb128 found the solution to the ooo font problem : removing /usr/share/fonts/truetype/openoffice
[12:12] <mvo> minghua: great, that sounds good and will get us support for all tables :)
[12:12] <Kamion> mvo: the problem is, Kubuntu doesn't use language-selector
[12:12] <mvo> Kamion: thanks. I think this solution is a good one
[12:12] <Kamion> mvo: and the code has to be the same for all derivatives
[12:12] <mvo> Kamion: we'll get a frontend for it 
[12:12] <mvo> right
[12:12] <Kamion> mvo: by dapper?
[12:12] <minghua> mvo: we still need to figure out the correct locale names (scim-tables-additional supports at least 6 languages)
[12:12] <minghua> ;-)
[12:13] <mvo> Kamion:  yes, it's a pretty important feature
[12:13] <Kamion> ok
[12:13] <mvo> Kamion: but derivaties may be a problem :/
[12:13] <gwenald> sabdfl: LOL :)))
[12:13] <minghua> mvo: then I'll cook a patch and ask you to review it when it's ready, okay?
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[12:13] <Kamion> I suppose I could use dpkg -l - the desktop is supposed to be installed by that point
[12:13] <sabdfl> :-p
[12:14] <ploum> yes, this cartoon is great :-)
[12:14] <sivang> man, I lol'd when I saw this 
[12:15] <ploum> but Burgwork's frankenstein-launchpad story is also very good (but less funny)
[12:15] <sivang> ploum: ah, Burgwork also did soemthing similar?
[12:15] <ploum> sivang: not in a funny way
[12:15] <ploum> interesting : http://www.advogato.org/person/Burgundavia/diary.html?start=72
=== sivang adds to his TOREAD list and goes back to HUB hacking.
[12:17] <mvo> minghua: yes, thanks
[12:18] <gwenald> sabdfl: well... are the losses at least diminishing?
[12:19] <Seveas> sivang, I'm not too sure whether hubert likes to be hacked on ;)
[12:19] <sivang> Seveas: heh
[12:19] <gwenald> sabdfl: (noticeably)
[12:19] <sabdfl> gwenald: revenue growth rate is greater than cost growth rate, i believe, but i'd need to check
[12:19] <sabdfl> i'm confident we'll get ubuntu to be sustainable
[12:19] <sivang> sabdfl++
[12:20] <sivang> gwenald: also, the fact canonical are opening a support center in Montreal and started to look for people to man it is a good sign I believe , if that helps :-)
[12:20] <gwenald> sabdfl: how could that happen, considering that ubuntu is more like a non-comercial distro? i think this is a tough mission.
[12:21] <Seveas> gwenald, have you read the MarkShuttleworth wikipage?
[12:21] <sivang> gwenald: when you have a good enough reputation, and you build a strong team that does specific needs tailoring and on site services, you can increase revenues.
[12:21] <gwenald> sabdfl: i mean... even esr would advice you to sell software (i guess) :))
[12:21] <sivang> gwenald: and what Seveas said :)
[12:21] <Kamion> gwenald: Ubuntu's non-commercial, but Canonical offer support/services on top of that
[12:22] <Kamion> well, perhaps "free-as-in-beer" is a better description than "non-commercial" here, but whatever
[12:22] <gwenald> Kamion: oh, right -- sabdfl: is canonical profitable?
[12:22] <ploum> Don't forget the Orange sponsoring for this release..
[12:22] <gwenald> Kamion: right
[12:22] <sivang> heh
[12:23] <pitti> ploum: what's this "Orange", a popular company in the US, or whereever?
[12:23] <ploum> pitti: I don't know in the US but well here in Europa
[12:23] <ploum> mobile phone operator
[12:23] <pitti> ah
[12:23] <Seveas> not just in US, in NL/FR and several other countries too
[12:24] <sabdfl> gwenald: no, canonical isn't profitable, but i'm working on it and confident
[12:25] <jordi> pitti: ping
=== pitti hugs jordi
[12:25] <jordi> pitti: so power manager is showing this very green icon
[12:25] <gwenald> sabdfl: could you please name another company which has an economical model closest to what canonical is aiming at?
[12:25] <netstar> linspire?
[12:25] <netstar> :P
[12:26] <ploum> Microsoft ?
[12:26] <jordi> Tooltip is: "Computer is running on AC power. Laptop battery charging (100%).
[12:26] <ploum> 99% is pirate software
[12:26] <jordi> pitti: do you see that in your apple?
[12:26] <pitti> jordi: ok?
[12:26] <ploum> only 1% of their marketshare pay the 99% others ;-)
[12:26] <sabdfl> gwenald: mysql, mozilla.com
[12:26] <pitti> jordi: ah, right, 100% and charging
[12:26] <netstar> (m)anyone running on an iMac G5?
[12:26] <pitti> jordi: hm, there are some wrong boundary conditions here as well, right, but I need to check
[12:27] <pitti> jordi: mine's at 89%, charging now and checking
[12:28] <jordi> pitti: I guess this is hw stuff going on, as in the laptop not sending a "I'm not charging anymore" signal
[12:28] <pitti> jordi: so hal should grow a light sensor to watch the color of the cable plug :)
[12:28] <jordi> pitti: PM could detect it's at 100% and go away if it can't be fixed at kernel level too easily
[12:28] <jordi> pitti: lol
[12:29] <jordi> pitti: the funny thing is, it's orange right now
[12:29] <pitti> jordi: well, then it *is* charging
[12:29] <pitti> jordi: so maybe rather the percentage is wrong?
[12:29] <jordi> it's at 100% tho
[12:29] <jordi> hmm
[12:29] <jordi> It was at 0% at 9AM
[12:29] <jordi> because I had been.. uhm, "testing" mame last night.
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[12:46] <Kamion> pitti: old mozilla-thunderbird-locale-{ca,de,fr,it,nl,pl,uk} source removed (was it you who asked me for that?)
[12:46] <pitti> Kamion: yes, I was; thanks
[12:49] <Kamion> doko: was it you who asked for ia32-libs-dev/amd64 to be removed? there are still build-dependencies on it (fakeroot, grub, etherboot, fakechroot, x86info)
[12:49] <Kamion> I'll look at grub now
[12:52] <doko> Kamion: I see, I'll replace them with libc6-i386-dev
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[01:02] <jono_> hey all
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[01:04] <jono_> any word if the delay is happening yet?
[01:06] <jordi> mdz: here?
[01:07] <Riddell> jono_: no
[01:07] <Kamion> it'll be announced when decided
[01:08] <jono_> Kamion, ahhh cool :)
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[01:09] <jordi> Kamion: we were talking to matt about syncing ttf-freefont from Debian yesterday. mdz seemed ok with this, but we never made the final push. The new snapshot in Debian is iirc 2 months old, no new bugs in the BTS, and our tests showed it helped in a number of ways, Bengali being prominent.
[01:09] <jordi> Kamion: No upstream changelog, Debian changes look sane.
[01:09] <Kamion> if mdz's OK with it, it's fine by me ...
[01:10] <jordi> he appeared to be positive, but cautious at the same time. He avoided saying a clear "yes" at that moment, but said it looked good
[01:11] <seb128> Kamion, mdz: is that of to update shared-mime-info, that's the freedesktop mime database, the tarball was pretty old they rolled a new one for GNOME 2.14. Quite a bunch of new types definitions and some fixes with it  ...
[01:13] <jordi> Kamion: the other change I'm proposing is changing fontconfig's default font from bitstream vera to DejaVu. seb128, any comment on this?
[01:13] <seb128> jordi: we already did that, no?
[01:13] <jordi> Kamion: Debian #317907 has a comment by keithp accepting the change
[01:13] <Ubugtu> debian bug 317907 in libfontconfig1-dbg "include ttf-dejavu as one of the alternatives in depends" [Wishlist,Closed]  http://bugs.debian.org/317907
[01:13] <jordi> seb128: ubuntu doesn't have it
[01:14] <seb128> jordi: oh, no it was
[01:14] <seb128>   * fonts.conf.in:
[01:14] <seb128>     - Add DejaVu fonts immediately after Bitstream Vera, for better i18n
[01:14] <seb128>       character support love.
[01:14] <seb128> I don't know the different enough to advocate switch or not
[01:14] <jordi> seb128: should be swapped, I believe
[01:15] <jordi> background is DejaVu is a fork of Vera, with a ton of fixes distros had been applying, after Bitstream never released new versions of Vera.
[01:15] <jdub> jordi: fixes to existing glyphs?
[01:15] <jordi> Adds fixes for existing glyphs, plus adds lots of support for central/east European languages, etc.
[01:15] <jordi> jdub: some glyphs that looked bad, afaik
[01:16] <jdub> hrm, ok, if it fixes existing glyphs then i'd agree
[01:16] <seb128> doko: I think that would fix the password char issue :)
[01:16] <jdub> the reason i did it that way around was because it's easier to stick with the vera name
[01:16] <jordi> jdub: stick in what sense?
[01:16] <jdub> jordi: actually having the font name work
[01:17] <jdub> jordi: if we actually remove vera, but make an alias for it to dejavu, that would work too
[01:17] <jordi> jdub: we need to forget about vera at some point. DejaVu should become  the standard.
[01:17] <Kamion> jordi: erm, ok, you're overloading my stack here, could you please send exception requests by mail?
[01:17] <jordi> jdub: works for me too, but is a more aggressive approach I guess
[01:17] <Kamion> fontconfig font changes are up to the desktop team as far as I'm concerned
[01:18] <jdub> jordi: that's kinda what i wanted to avoid without there being some kind of wider buy-in :)
[01:18] <jordi> Kamion: ok. I asked, people told me IRC was ok :)
[01:18] <jdub> jordi: perhaps this is something we could pitch at guadec
[01:18] <jordi> jdub: nod
[01:18] <Kamion> seb128: sounds sensible
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[01:18] <jdub> jordi: feels a bit sucky towards bitstream though (i'd like to try one last time to get their attention)
[01:19] <jordi> jdub: I agree with that
[01:19] <jordi> it's been three years though
[01:19] <jdub> slackeurs
[01:19] <jdub> i'll mail jim
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[01:19] <jordi> I read "I'll jail me"
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[01:20] <jordi> jdub: ok.
[01:20] <jordi> jdub: as for the swapping, should I keep looking a this, or should we punt for dapper+1?
[01:20] <doko> jordi: the problem is that dejavu glyphs don't have the same dimensions, which is bad
[01:20] <doko> for printing ...
[01:21] <jdub> doko: yeah
[01:21] <jordi> this appears to be escalating upstream already, with keith agreeing to the change
[01:21] <jordi> ah, I didn't know that
[01:21] <jordi> so it's bad if ou mix vera and dejavu
[01:21] <jordi> if dejavu goes in first, you're very likely to not see vera at all, right?
[01:21] <jordi> vera is now a subset of dejavu
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[01:22] <jdub> well, there are two problems there
[01:22] <jdub> there's the mixing problem
[01:22] <jdub> but even with just dejavu, different dimensions have an impact on printing
[01:22] <jdub> and all rendering
[01:22] <jdub> so, for instance, my presentations will end up out of proportion
[01:22] <jdub> ;)
[01:23] <jordi> btw, I loved your "7" entry :)
[01:23] <jdub> jordi: perhaps the best thing to do is make the generic names map to dejavu first, but install both fonts
[01:23] <jdub> thanks :)
[01:24] <jordi> aha
[01:25] <jordi> right ow debian installs dejavu OR vera OR something OR something
[01:25] <Treenaks> jordi: OR or XOR?
[01:25] <jordi> you'd want dejavu and bitstream in fontconfig's deps
[01:25] <jordi> Depends: debconf (>= 0.5) | debconf-2.0, ucf (>= 0.29), ttf-dejavu | ttf-bitstream-vera | ttf-freefont | gsfonts-x11 | msttcorefonts
[01:25] <jordi> wow, msttcorefonts
[01:25] <jdub> *fontconfig* deps? interesting
[01:26] <jordi> jdub: of course, they need to follow what fonts.conf say is prefered
[01:26] <jdub> jordi: yeah, i'd change the second two pipes to commas on that line :)
[01:26] <Treenaks> fontconfig depends on fonts? surely it should be the other way around?
[01:26] <jdub> Treenaks: naw, this makes sense
[01:26] <jordi> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=317907
=== jdub just finds it interesting for debian to do that
[01:26] <Ubugtu> debian bug 317907 in libfontconfig1-dbg "include ttf-dejavu as one of the alternatives in depends" [Wishlist,Closed]  
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[01:26] <jdub> but i guess it's sufficiently ORed ;)
[01:26] <doko> seb128, jordi, jdub: some hack at http://people.ubuntu.com/~doko/ttf-dejavu_2.3-0ubuntu2_all.deb
[01:27] <jdub> doko: what's this?
[01:27] <jdub> (well, apart from being dejavu)
[01:27] <doko> jdub: a smaller dot that seb128 can handle
[01:28] <jordi> let  * 0x25cf hack.
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[01:28] <jdub> oh right
[01:28] <jordi> that's a cool changelog entry ;)
[01:28] <seb128> too small 
[01:28] <seb128> imho
[01:28] <doko> jordi: I don't plan to upload that
[01:28] <Treenaks> -hack?
[01:28] <jordi> doko: I know
[01:29] <jordi> that's for the passwords thing right?
[01:29] <doko> seb128: right, I'm asking upstream for a fix, these are about 15 glyphs in 10 fonts ... I don't want to edit these by hand ...
[01:29] <doko> yes
[01:30] <jordi> right... I was concerned this was a replacement for other dots
[01:30] <jordi> ;)
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[01:37] <jordi> jdub: summarizing. What changes would you propose?
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[01:38] <infinity> Kamion: Was that changelog entry dylexic, or does grub really build-depend on libc6-i386-dev (rather than libc6-dev-i386)?
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[01:39] <jdub> jordi: i guess i'd suggest shipping both, using dejavu as the primary choice for the generic names
[01:39] <infinity> s/dylexic/dyslexic/
[01:40] <jordi> jdub: alright
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[01:47] <huggymuggy> hi all
[01:47] <Mez> infinity, did you upload that patch for scim yet ?
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[01:50] <mvo> Mez: what patch is that?
[01:51] <Mez> mvo: the one to make it backportable
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[01:56] <Kamion> infinity: both the changelog entry and the control file were dyslexic; fixing
[01:56] <Kamion> infinity: dylexic> oh the irony
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[01:57] <Kamion> infinity: fixed, thanks for the heads-up
[01:58] <jordi> jdub: depending on both, you mean getting rid of alternatives for vera and dejavu, ie ttf-dejavu, ttf-bitstream-vera, ttf-freefont | gsfonts-x11 | msttcorefonts
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[01:58] <doko> Kamion: please could you promote fdupes to main (reviewed by pitti), so the next OOo upload can use it?
[01:58] <jordi> that pulls 3 fonts, not two
[01:59] <jordi> I'd do dejavu, vera | this | and | that
[02:00] <doko> jordi: pleae not. maybe dejavu is better for the screen, but definitely not for printing
[02:00] <jdub> jordi: yes
[02:00] <Kamion> doko: done
[02:00] <jordi> doko, jdub: yes or no?
[02:01] <doko> jordi, jdub: both, but prefer bitstream-vera for printing ...
[02:02] <doko> btw, from the OOo sources:
[02:02] <doko> # The bitstream fonts never make sense _at all_ they are so metrically odd.
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[02:02] <doko>     s/Bitstream Vera Sans;//g;
[02:02] <doko>     s/Bitstream Vera Sans Mono;//g;
[02:02] <doko>     s/Bitstream Vera Serif;//g;
[02:02] <jordi> doko: for printing only? Not sure how to do that.
[02:03] <doko> jordi: maybe that was OOo specific ...
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[02:03] <bSON> hi
[02:03] <slomo> infinity, lamont: please give-back evolution-sharp on ppc, thanks ;)
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[02:04] <jordi> doko: lunchtime here.
[02:04] <jordi> doko: I don't se eany printing specific config here. It could well be OOo specific.
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[02:05] <jordi> I see your concern though.
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[02:05] <jordi> doko: that issue is not fixed with vera?
[02:05] <jordi> err
[02:05] <jordi> with dejavu
[02:05] <jordi> back later
[02:06] <doko> jordi: which issue?
[02:06] <jordi> the sizes issue
[02:06] <doko> no, addressed on the dejavu ML
[02:06] <jordi> pitti: hmm. now it's green, pm disappeared
[02:06] <pitti> Kamion: I cleaned up anastacia output a bit; some package fixes and promotion approvals on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuMainInclusionQueue
[02:07] <pitti> jordi: 10 minutes to go for me; there seem to be hiccups after resuming, if the battery is already full
[02:07] <doko> abelcheung: minghua (currenty not online) did a first check of OOo and scim. I have no tutorial how to check it for myself (on a western keyboard), so a short description would be nice
[02:10] <stub> Launchpad is going down in 15 mins for a regular code update. Estimated downtime is 10 minutes. Wikis will be in read only mode during this time.
[02:10] <martink> doko: there's (very little) scim/ooo documentation in ooo-build/doc/im.txt. You probably want to use the gtk+scim instructions
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[02:10] <Kamion> pitti: noticed some of that, thanks
[02:11] <infinity> slomo: I'd love to, but it failed because the build-deps are uninstallable, giving it back won't change that.
[02:11] <sivang> can anybody tell me if to be able to use cdrecord to read last session's offeset, the drive must be an /R/RW drive and not plain read drive (CD/DVD)
[02:11] <Kamion> infinity: was that due to lack of libxml-libxml-perl making gtk2-sharp-gapi uninstallable?
[02:11] <sivang> ?
[02:12] <Kamion> that's on the promotion list
[02:12] <martink> doko: oh, and the magic key combo to activate scim is Ctrl+Space
[02:12] <infinity> Kamion: No, gtkhtml and gnomeprintui out-of-datedness, it looks like.
=== infinity sorts.
[02:13] <seb128> infinity: what about those*?
[02:13] <infinity> Or, just gnomeprint, actually.
[02:14] <slomo> infinity: oh, right... last time i looked the failure was something else so you have given-back it already some hours ago it seems... sorry for the noise
[02:14] <infinity> seb128: Oh, nothing, I think I'm just waiting on cron.daily to finish actually.
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[02:14] <infinity> slomo: I'll toss it back to the wolves.  After this cron.daily, it should be okay...
[02:15] <slomo> infinity: thanks
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[02:22] <pitti> jordi: WFM
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[02:33] <sivang> hrm
[02:33] <sivang> pooh@tigershark ~/my/upbackup--main/UPBackup/backend $ sudo mount -o loop=/dev/loop0 test.iso test_iso/
[02:33] <sivang> mount: Not a directory
[02:33] <sivang> what am I doing wrong?
[02:35] <Treenaks> sivang: does the 'test_iso/' directory exist?
[02:35] <Treenaks> sivang: in .
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[02:39] <sivang> Treenaks: yes, it does.
[02:40] <sivang> Treenaks: weirdness
[02:43] <ogra> sivang, try  sudo mount -o loop test.iso test_iso
[02:43] <ogra> let the kernel care for the device
[02:43] <sivang> okay, let's try.
[02:43] <ogra> or better sudo mount -o loop test.iso ./test_iso
[02:44] <sivang> pooh@tigershark ~/my/upbackup--main/UPBackup/backend $ sudo mount -o loop test.iso ./test_iso
[02:44] <sivang> mount: Not a directory
[02:44] <sivang> what the..
[02:44] <sivang> I can swear this worked once
=== sivang grumbels
[02:46] <sivang> ogra: can you try something like that onyour dapper see if it works?
[02:47] <ogra> sivang, i do it all the time if i test flight isos ...
[02:47] <sivang> oh bad, that something has went crazy in my system
[02:47] <ogra> to check the contents and seeds
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[02:50] <Kamion> sivang: you sure that ./test_iso is a directory (and that you typed its name right)?
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[02:51] <sivang> root@tigershark:/home/pooh/my/upbackup--main/UPBackup/backend # ls -la | grep "test_iso"
[02:51] <sivang> drwxr-sr-x 2 pooh pooh     48 2006-03-15 15:25 test_iso
[02:51] <sivang> and I use tab completiong, and checked that I typed correctly.
[02:53] <sivang> I'm on  2.6.15-17-686 #1 SMP PREEMPT
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[03:04] <jono> Kamion, are all filesystem types resizable in espresso ?
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[03:08] <sivang> Kamion: any idea ? has my system gone insane?
[03:08] <Pygi> mvo: I'd like to help developin' synaptic
[03:08] <sivang> Kamion: oh, I didn't address you directly, so you may have missed - yes, I am sure that I am using the correct dir.
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[03:17] <sivang> Seveas: yes, I need to . let try to make the calander work thugh before :)
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[03:22] <sivang> argh, this doesn't make any sense
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[03:31] <Kamion> jono: anything that parted knows how to resize is resizable in espresso - that's everything that people care about with the exception of NTFS. In d-i we use a special hack to resize NTFS, and if there's time we'll do that in espresso too.
[03:32] <jono> Kamion, ok cool
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[03:33] <ogra> Kamion, i installed my GFs new laptop last weekend and resized the existing NTFS partition from a breezy liveCD with gparted ... 
[03:33] <ogra> worked fine ...
[03:33] <bddebian> ogra: Awesome, wanna help me get Dapper or Breezy running on my Proliant ML350? :-)
[03:34] <ogra> bddebian, i'm not a kernel dev :)
[03:34] <bddebian> Bah :-)
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[03:34] <ogra> doesnt hurd work ? 
[03:34] <bddebian> On the Proliant? Hahahaha :)
[03:35] <bddebian> I'm going to try Sarge today :-(
[03:36] <Kamion> ogra: ah, yes, you're right, it already uses ntfsresize for that
[03:36] <Kamion> jono: ^--
[03:36] <mvo> Pygi: great, what particular bits are you interessted in ?
[03:38] <abelcheung> doko: sorry, I'm back now, was having lunch
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[03:39] <abelcheung> doko: I'll list the testing procedures one by one:
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[03:40] <sivang> bddebian: joining the serer team efforts? :)
[03:40] <abelcheung> doko: 1. install openoffice.org-l10n-zh-cn and openoffice.org-l10n-zh-tw, and check if the interface shows OOo chinese characters correctly
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[03:40] <abelcheung> doko: s/openoffice.org/openoffice.org2/
[03:40] <bddebian> sivang: Hmm, maybe I should :-)  But no one likes my type of help.  I annoy everyone :-)
[03:43] <sivang> re the mount problem, Seveas also tried that:
[03:43] <sivang> 14:33 < Seveas> stat64("/sbin/mount.iso9660", 0xbfa08fcc) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
[03:43] <sivang> 14:33 < Seveas> mount("/dev/loop0", "./test_iso", "iso9660", MS_POSIXACL|MS_ACTIVE|MS_NOUSER|0xec0000, 0x8074f38) = -1
[03:43] <sivang>                 ENOTDIR (Not a directory)
[03:43] <doko> abelcheung: please could you write this down in a wiki page?
[03:43] <abelcheung> doko: no problem!
[03:44] <Seveas> (sivang: using full paths for both iso and dir doesn't work either)
[03:44] <sivang> Seveas: pretty amazing.
[03:44] <sivang> when I touch a dummy file and use it as the target it works
[03:44] <sivang> but I can't do anything with the file though
[03:44] <sivang> as it's not a dir
[03:45] <sivang> maybe the iso is screwed..
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[04:02] <koke> mvo: the language-selector.desktop file is not being regenerated from the .in
[04:02] <gwenald> somebody please recommend me a repo with gaim 2.0 beta 2 compiled for ubuntu?
[04:03] <koke> anyway, try changing Icon: language-selector.png to Icon: config-language to fix #32371
[04:03] <mvo> koke: oh? not regenerated is bad
[04:06] <koke> mmm, mvo you have to cd data && make
[04:06] <koke> then it works
[04:06] <mvo> koke: right, we should add that to setup.py :)
[04:07] <koke> yep, just for curiosity, why did you switch to python distutils
[04:07] <koke> it's rather annoying to have translations regenerated in every build/install
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[04:23] <sivang> Kamion: I find out the source of error with mount. I created an image of a multisession target, when I created a non merged one, it would loopback mount it. the error msg was misleading. Do you have any idea why I can't mount merged multisession images?
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[04:40] <Kamion> sivang: sorry, I have no idea
[04:42] <sivang> Kamion: okay, np.
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[05:12] <mammoth> hi
[05:13] <bddebian> Hello mammoth
[05:13] <mammoth> how r you?
[05:14] <bddebian> Fine thank you.  You?
[05:14] <mammoth> fine
[05:14] <mammoth> i dont work 2day
[05:14] <mammoth> and what u do?
[05:14] <mammoth> i mean work
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[05:19] <slomo> Kamion: hi, i uploaded gtkpod-aac (a NEW package) almost a month ago but it didn't get through NEW yet and nobody saw a REJECTED mail... is it still in NEW or what happened to it?
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[05:21] <mvo> Kamion: can we get a upstream version freeze expection for ttf-freefont? the new package has better bengali, tamil etc (see http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=350517)
[05:21] <Ubugtu> debian bug 350517 in udeb "Please package the last version" [Doubt....,Closed]  
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[05:35] <Kamion> mvo: that bug suggests that there are still bad spacing problems with the new version?
[05:36] <Kamion> slomo: it's in NEW, sorry, my bad
[05:36] <sivang> pitti: any complains about my packaging? :)
[05:36] <slomo> Kamion: ok, np :) it's in general the gtkpod package with a new build-dependency from multiverse and conflicts/replaces/provides magic
[05:37] <pitti> sivang: no time yet, sorry
[05:38] <sivang> pitti: sure, np, whenever you have, I just want the package to pass you before it enters the archive, even that it will be universe.
[05:38] <Kamion> slomo: accepted now
[05:38] <Kamion> slomo: I have to confess that I generally avoid the stuff with "interesting" licensing in NEW in the hope that elmo will do it instead
[05:40] <slomo> Kamion: understandable... i won't like to process them too ;) but this one was fortunately simple as it has nothing bad other than a build-dependency :)
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[05:41] <Kamion> slomo: right, although I am somewhat concerned about stuff in multiverse that's GPLed with no exception
[05:41] <Kamion> isn't there a question whether that's distributable?
[05:42] <slomo> Kamion: good question... no idea :/ but this would affect almost everything in multiverse
[05:43] <Kamion> that surprises me, I'm pretty sure most things there are either not GPLed or have an explicit exception clause
[05:43] <Kamion> slomo: could you check with the upstream author to get an explicit licence exception for linking with whatever non-free/patented stuff you're using?
[05:43] <pitti> isn't that also a question of patents?
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[05:44] <Kamion> quite so, see GPL section 7
[05:44] <Kamion> if the upstream author is not content with this, please tell me ASAP and I'll remove the package
[05:44] <Kamion> sorry, I only thought of this after processing
[05:44] <Kamion> this is why I hate going anywhere near multiverse :-/
[05:45] <slomo> Kamion: i'm pretty sure that many things in multiverse are GPL/LGPL without an exception clause... but i'll verify this later... and write a mail to the gtkpod author about that
[05:47] <Kamion> LGPL + non-free/patents without an exception clause is fine, AFAIK
[05:47] <Kamion> although I'm not entirely sure about patents
[05:47] <slomo> pitti: in this case it's only a question of patents ;)
[05:47] <Kamion> I think it's OK though
[05:50] <slomo> Kamion: "as a consequence of a court judgment or allegation of patent infringement" there was no court judgment or offical allegation of patent infringement by the patent holders yet from what i know... although that doesn't make it much better as faad definitely infringes patents
[05:51] <slomo> Kamion: anyway... how would such exception clause look like? do you have an example in mind? :)
[05:52] <Kamion> you snipped "or for any other reason" from that clause, which is kind of relevant (consider a known patent licence) :-P
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[05:53] <Kamion> slomo: googling for "GPL exception clause" led me to http://lists.debian.org/debian-legal/2001/08/msg00067.html in about four or five clicks; I'm sure you can find others
[05:53] <Kamion> http://gstreamer.freedesktop.org/documentation/licensing.html has similar stuff
[05:54] <slomo> Kamion: so knowing that this infringes a patent is "any other reason"? ok, i didn't understand it that way but could be related to my english :)
[05:54] <slomo> thanks, i'll get a mail ready to the gtkpod author :)
[05:55] <Kamion> dude, "knowing that this infringes a patent" is *stronger* than "allegation of patent infringement"
[05:55] <Kamion> if you already know, nobody needs to allege it
[05:56] <Kamion> the GPL is kind of assuming that you aren't wilfully breaking the law in its wording
[05:56] <bddebian> "breakin' the law, breakin' the law"
[05:56] <Kamion> but "any other reason" covers anything that imposes conditions on you contradicting the terms of the GPL
[05:57] <Kamion> unless there is an exception clause from the authors of all the GPLed material allowing you to do otherwise, then if you can't distribute the work as a whole under the terms of the GPL, you can't distribute it at all
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[05:59] <slomo> Kamion: ok thanks, good to know...
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[06:00] <pitti> off to another espresso install try :)
[06:02] <pitti> Kamion: is 'sudo env ESPRESSO_DEBUG=1 espresso' the right thing?
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[06:03] <pitti> Kamion: (nevermind, seems so, the log is veeery verbose now)
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[06:11] <Kamion> pitti: I use ESPRESSO_DEBUG=1 sudo espresso, but yeah, same difference
[06:12] <pitti> meh, I cannot get past that 'dispositivos duplicados' error
[06:12] <Kamion> ("duplicate mountpoints")
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[06:12] <Kamion> wurgle, why the hell isn't partman offering me the chance to erase the whole dis
[06:12] <Kamion> k
[06:13] <Seveas> Ubugtu just got a bit more useful
[06:13] <Kamion> I have a feeling it didn't manage to detect any disks ...
[06:13] <Seveas> he will now manage the topic in #ubuntu-meeting and fill it with the fridge ical feed
[06:13] <Kamion> Oh. That would be because I forgot to add any in vmware. d'oh.
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[06:18] <Kamion> Mithrandir: any idea why /sbin is mode 700 on today's live CD?
[06:19] <Mithrandir> Kamion: what does dmesg look like?
[06:21] <Kamion> pretty normal - although some DriveReady SeekComplete Error things about hdc
[06:21] <Kamion> but that's really weird since this is inside vmware, so I'm inclined to discount it
=== Kamion greps the archive for /sbin other than mode 755
[06:23] <Riddell> I can't confirm the /sbin issue
[06:23] <Mithrandir> Kamion: it's probably just squashfs smoking something.
[06:23] <Mithrandir> Kamion: try rebooting and see if it fixes it
[06:24] <Riddell> Mithrandir: it's a live CD
[06:24] <Mithrandir> Riddell: yes, and?
[06:24] <Kamion> I think it's safe to assume Mithrandir is familiar with live CDs
[06:25] <Kamion> it seems to be incredibly confused about networking too ...
[06:25] <Kamion> yeah, sod it, I'll reboot :-/
[06:25] <Mithrandir> Kamion: I'm slightly worried about the "let's go smoke crack" behaviour that we see from squashfs a bit too often. :-/
[06:26] <Kamion> ich auch
[06:26] <pitti> Mithrandir: confirmed, /sbin is 0700 here, too
[06:27] <Mithrandir> pitti: and nothign interesting in dmesg in your end either?
[06:28] <Kamion> same behaviour after reboot, except that networking isn't randomly broken any more
[06:28] <bddebian> Fuck, no Dapper, Breezy, or even sarge will install on this ML350.. :-(
[06:29] <azeem> tried etch beta 2?
[06:29] <azeem> it got released today
[06:29] <Kamion> bddebian: what breaks?
[06:29] <bddebian> azeem: No not yet
[06:29] <bddebian> Kamion: It just hangs
[06:29] <Kamion> at what point?
[06:30] <bddebian> On Breezy I get:
[06:30] <bddebian> 4294668.82100 ACPI: Looking for DSDT.. not found!
[06:30] <bddebian> 4292668.92100 not found!
[06:30] <bddebian> hang
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[06:33] <seb128> Kamion, mdz: read my question about new shared-mime-info some hours ago?
[06:35] <pitti> Mithrandir: not really, at least nothing that looks like oopes and such
[06:35] <Kamion> seb128: read my answer some hours ago? ;-)
[06:35] <Kamion> 12:18 < Kamion> seb128: sounds sensible
[06:35] <pitti> $ dmesg |grep squash
[06:35] <pitti> [   59.117343]  squashfs: version 3.0prerelease (2006/1/24) Phillip Lougher
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[06:36] <bddebian> Kamion: Any ideas?  I have tried acpi=off pci=noacpi noapic DEBCONF_DEBUG=5 BOOT_DEBUG=2 to no avail :-(
[06:36] <Kamion> bddebian: I'm afraid not - kernel folks might know better
[06:36] <bddebian> I've tried them :-(
[06:36] <Kamion> hangs before the installer actually really gets started are well outside my area of expertise
[06:37] <xhaker> bbdebian.. Asus laptop?
[06:37] <bddebian> xhaker: Compaq Proliant ML350
[06:37] <xhaker> i've seen hangs with the loading of hw_random module on Asus laptop
[06:37] <xhaker> 's
[06:38] <seb128> Kamion: nop, I didn't sorry :) What is sensible about it? That's mainly next type definitions, nothing likely to break the world
[06:39] <Mithrandir> pitti: I'm off for dinner, so ttyl
[06:39] <seb128> Kamion: and a good bunch of fixes for differents mimetypes too
[06:39] <Kamion> seb128: "sounds sensible" == "ok"
[06:39] <Kamion> as in, go ahead
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[06:39] <seb128> k, /me hides :)
[06:39] <bddebian> seb128: Did you get the alternatives thing working the way you wanted?
=== Kamion gives his acknowledgements in triplicate. :-)
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[06:40] <seb128> Kamion: thank you :))
[06:40] <pitti> Kamion: is there an easy way (besides rebooting the live CD) to purge the espresso settings? It keeps wanting to format a partition it isn't supposed to
[06:40] <seb128> bddebian: out of the way that update-alternatives doesn't create the dir if required yep :p
[06:40] <Kamion> pitti: possibly rm -rf /var/lib/partman; it sounds as if partman is very confused
[06:40] <pitti> ah, thanks
[06:40] <Kamion> but I haven't looked at the log yet
[06:40] <bddebian> seb128: :-)
[06:41] <pitti> Kamion: (I filed bugs along the installation, I just need some help to actually finish one :) )
[06:41] <seb128> s/way/fact
[06:41] <Kamion> pitti: can you wait a minute and I'll have a quick look at the log?
[06:41] <Kamion> just in case there's something else I need
[06:41] <pitti> Kamion: oh, sure
[06:42] <pitti> Kamion: kudos for your fast mail reading, BTW :) do you have a red lamp that flashes whenever a new espresso bug is filed?
[06:42] <Kamion> pitti: oh, in fact never mind, your comment clarifies exactly why it happened
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[06:45] <pitti> Kamion: alright, then 'insert coin and try it again' :)
[06:45] <lemsx1> hello all
[06:45] <Kamion> pitti: yeah, I just need to make PartmanCommit clear out old state
[06:45] <lemsx1> the sketch program is supposed to work by just calling it from the command line like: sketch ?
[06:45] <pitti> Kamion: I saved the old /v/l/partman, just in case
[06:46] <pitti> hm, it *still* knows my name
[06:46] <lemsx1> i installed inkscape (just to play around) and saw that it suggested a few other programs. sketch gave me a bunch of errors when i tried to execute it
[06:47] <lemsx1> oh, old bug #5347
[06:47] <Ubugtu> malone bug 5347 in sketch "sketch does not start" [Major,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/5347
[06:48] <Kamion> well, there are no .debs in main or restricted that ship /sbin as anything other than mode 0755
[06:48] <Kamion> and no obvious chmods in /var/lib/dpkg/info/
[06:48] <Kamion> infinity: any clue what's going on here?
[06:51] <doko> infinity, lamont, Kinnison: any reason why openoffice.org-l10n is not picked up by the buildd's?
[06:52] <Kinnison> is the source in?
[06:52] <doko> yes
[06:53] <Kinnison> only just
[06:53] <Kinnison> It'll probably all start up in the next few hours as it settles after the problem we had earlier
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[06:54] <doko> Kinnison: what do you mean by "just", the .orig.tar.gz?
[06:55] <Kinnison> the datetime on the publishing record is seven minutes ago
[06:55] <Kinnison> so I imagine the buildds haven't got it yet
[06:55] <doko> ahh, ok
[06:55] <Kinnison> doko|imatient
[06:55] <Kinnison> erm impatient too
=== Kinnison needs new fingers
[06:58] <doko> heh ... I did upload these 3 hours ago ;)
[06:59] <Kinnison> yeah, and we had some db issues today with the lp upgrade
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[06:59] <fstat> hello
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[07:01] <sivang> Kinnison: ruined your fingers with the lp upgrade? :)
[07:01] <sivang> Kinnison: what's up?
[07:01] <Kinnison> sivang: Naah, lots of hacking on LP this week
=== Kinnison has been having fun doing lots of cool stuff for LP
[07:01] <sivang> Kinnison: well, tha'ts alwasy good :)
[07:02] <sivang> Kinnison: I'm sure you had, and paying with fingers is a small price to pay :-D
[07:02] <sivang> Kinnison: are you able to review a package of mine so I can take it off pitti_live 's busy back? :-)
[07:04] <Kinnison> sivang: Sure, mail it to me, I.E. the source package
[07:05] <Kinnison> sivang: If it's not in my INBOX, I won't have it offline later
=== sivang rushes up
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[07:09] <sivang> Dispositivos duplicados ?
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[07:13] <Kinnison> doko: BQB is running
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[07:20] <sivang> Kinnison: sent
[07:20] <sivang> Kinnison: see if you get it
[07:20] <mdz> seb128: can you repeat it?
[07:21] <seb128> mdz: what? shared-mime-info stuff? Kamion gave me approval so I've uploaded
[07:22] <mdz> seb128: ah, ok
[07:22] <mdz> (yes)
[07:25] <KaiL> damn f*cking powernowd
[07:26] <KaiL> it starts to become some tradition, that it breaks on this system ;)
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[07:34] <Kinnison> sivang: where did you send it to, it's still not turned up
[07:37] <siryes> Hello, good Ubuntu people! I'd like to ask a general question about gksu package.
[07:38] <mvo> siryes: just ask, that is in general better than asking for permission :)
[07:39] <siryes> Since the Dapper is going to be released a bit later, and Ubuntu team is intended to provide a long support for it (36-60 months), I'd like to support this basic utility by providing a Polish translation.
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[07:39] <pitti> seb128, Riddell: mmm, fresh language packs on http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/langpacks/ - wanna help testing them?
[07:39] <pitti> grab them while they are hot :)
[07:40] <Riddell> pitti: any changes to the packaging, or just updates?
[07:40] <pitti> Riddell: just fresh translations
[07:41] <pitti> Riddell: maybe you can watch out for amarok
[07:41] <siryes> I've created a set of updated .po files which can be found on the Polish Gnome Translators' page: http://www.gnomepl.org/gksu ; http://www.gnomepl.org/libgksu ; http://www.gnomepl.org/libgksuui
[07:41] <seb128> siryes: subscribe to the rosetta team for your locale
[07:42] <siryes> I just don't know who to ask to put it in the Ubuntu packages. The Polish translations of the aforemntioned packages are horribly outdated... :-(
[07:42] <siryes> rosetta team, ok. Where to find them?
[07:42] <pitti> Riddell: darn, it seems that amarok was not updated, might still be the old tarball
[07:42] <pitti> Riddell: I forgot to check for that before building the new packs
[07:43] <seb128> pitti: gstreamer-0.8 translation is dropped but no gstreamer-0.10 one replace it
[07:43] <pitti> Riddell: so it seems we need a no-change upload to get a new translation tarball (currently importet one is 2:1.3.8-0ubuntu2)
[07:43] <sivang> Kinnison: dsilvers@canonical.com
[07:43] <siryes> ok, got it: https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-l10n-pl
[07:43] <siryes> Is this team responsive? ;-)
[07:44] <Riddell> pitti: latest amarok is 2:1.3.8-0ubuntu6, why will uploading it again change which version is used for the translation tar?
[07:44] <pitti> seb128: hm, find -name 'gstream*' delivers gstreamer-0.10.po, isn't that right?
[07:44] <seb128> pitti: ups, sorry, was already shipped by previous set in fact
[07:44] <pitti> Riddell: probably 0ubuntu6 was uploaded while sbuild didn't export tarballs
[07:44] <seb128> I sort of debdiffed
[07:44] <Riddell> pitti: ok, I'll do that now
[07:44] <seb128> and noticed gst0.8 droppage but no new gst0.10 :)
[07:44] <seb128> pitti: looks good to me
[07:44] <seb128> pitti: thank you :)
[07:44] <Kinnison> sivang: Hmm, try again to dsilvers@digital-scurf.org
=== seb128 goes for dinner
[07:45] <sivang> Kinnison: sec
[07:45] <pitti> Riddell: alright, I'll build the packs again after that
[07:45] <seb128> pitti: I've installed them and tried some apps, looks fine
[07:45] <pitti> seb128: better than before? i. e. with gnome 2.14 love?
[07:46] <sivang> Kinnison: sent
[07:47] <bddebian> w000t.. Mithrandir, you were soo close
[07:48] <bddebian> I needed noapic AND nolapic
[07:49] <mvo> does anyone here has a opinion about the free-ness (main ready) of the OFL license ?  (http://www.sil.org/OFL)
[07:49] <Kinnison> sivang: looks like one has turned up
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[07:52] <Kamion> mvo: 404
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[07:55] <mvo> Kamion: *cough* make that http://scripts.sil.org/ofl
[07:55] <pitti> seb128, Riddell: current packs look fine to me; I'll build new ones tomorrow then, when amarok is imported
[07:56] <sivang> Kinnison: thanks
[07:56] <sivang> btw, what's with that erro message from cdrecord - Error: Cannot gain SYS_RAWIO capability.Is cdrecord installed SUID root?
[07:56] <sivang> : Operation not permitted
[07:58] <Riddell> pitti: no gwenview either, it had the same problem as amarok and was fixed around the same time, I'll re-upload that too for luck
[07:58] <pitti> yes, thanks
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[07:58] <pitti> Riddell: I can import the two tarballs on their own for a quick test before cranking up the full build
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[08:01] <pitti> wow, our installer is really nice - I now have FOUR partitions which are all labeled '/' and gnome-vfs only shows the label
[08:02] <pitti> Kamion: any chance to stop labelling the partitions by default? or is that a particular pet feature of you?
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[08:08] <mvo> doko: scim seems to work fine in OOwrtie on amd64 (version from today, tested in vmware)
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[08:21] <doko> mvo: hmm, nice, so how does scim work? it's an extra layer? I'm just wondering, because the modules in /usr/lib32/gtk-2.0 don't exist ...
[08:21] <sivang> pitti: it seems I need to dpkg-reconfigure cdrecord , and enable SUID root for the binaries to make the SYS_RAWIO error message go away. isn't this supposed to be supported without SUID bit set for the latest kernels?
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[08:24] <Kamion> pitti: I can't decide between "should use better labels" and "gnome-vfs should be a bit smarter when labels clash"
[08:24] <Mithrandir> sabdfl: X fallback on live cd is basically "if we fail to start X, retry with vesa?"
[08:24] <Kamion> pitti: I do think the labels are useful - your problem only arises when you have several multiply-booted Linux installs, which I'd venture to suggest is a corner case
[08:26] <sabdfl> Mithrandir: i don't know, it's just "don't die horribly"
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[08:27] <sabdfl> whether thats "die gracefully and tell the user how to try again with vesa"
[08:27] <sabdfl> or "keep things under control and come back to offer alternatives"
[08:27] <sabdfl> we should consider free drivers, non-free and vesa
[08:28] <Kamion> somebody said the other day that there's a problem using the non-free drivers on the live CD, because they install a version of libGL that's incompatible with the free drivers
[08:28] <Kamion> I didn't catch the details, but it seemed to me like it might be relevant here; I think infinity knows more
[08:29] <Mithrandir> I could investigate more, in my copious free time.
[08:36] <janimo> Kamion, at least fglrx libGL on install diverts the original one, maybe that's what they meant
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[08:36] <Kamion> janimo: right
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[08:46] <GFDL> in dapper the terminal server client doesn't save advanced settings like local resources (e.g. keyboard setting) or username in the rdp file
[08:46] <GFDL> only the computer name is saved
[08:46] <GFDL> for complex settings everytime the settings must be reentered
[08:48] <LaserJock> GFDL: have you reported/searched for an appropriate bug report?
[08:48] <pitti> re
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[08:49] <GFDL> I will take a look now, I haven't checked yet
[08:49] <GFDL> the .rdp file contains entries for username, etc. but all are empty
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[08:51] <seb128> pitti: not easy to say, I built a lot of stuff on my box so I've a lot of .mo installed
[08:52] <seb128> pitti: so my translations are fine without language pack :)
[08:52] <pitti> seb128: heh, true :)
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[09:01] <seb128> Kamion, mdz: GNOME guys got a new libxklavier 2.2 bug fix tarball for GNOME 2.14.0, is that ok to update?
[09:02] <seb128> Kamion, mdz: there is 3 changelog entries since the version we have, all bug fixes so it should be just fine
[09:06] <Mithrandir> seb128: would it be hard to make double-clicking a date in the calendar in the clock applet actually open evolution on the right date?
[09:06] <seb128> Mithrandir: it has not been done before because evolution lacked the API to do that
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[09:06] <seb128> Mithrandir: need to check if that's still true
[09:07] <Mithrandir> seb128: it appears to have some support for it, but I haven't been able to get the magic incarnations to work yet.
[09:07] <seb128> Mithrandir: upstream bug about that is http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=162305
[09:07] <Ubugtu> gnome2 bug 162305 in clock "Double click should open calendar with date or the task clicked" [Normal,New]  
[09:07] <seb128> comment say
[09:07] <seb128> "evolution calendar:///?startdate=FOO
[09:07] <seb128> where FOO is an ISO 8601-compliant UTC time string, it is parsed using
[09:07] <seb128> strftime (ret, 17, "%Y%m%dT%M%SZ", gmtime (&t));
[09:07] <seb128> For a proof-of-concept, use the shell command
[09:07] <seb128> date +"%Y%m%dT%M%SZ""
[09:08] <seb128> I've that on my list to try, but ETOOBUSY, etc
[09:08] <seb128> if you want to give it a try you are welcome
[09:08] <sivang> pitti: what are the possible ret codes from pmount/pumount? success / failure == 0 / 1 ?
[09:08] <sivang> pitti: (man page doesn't talk about it)
[09:08] <Mithrandir> seb128: thanks.  I didn't get it to work, but I'll investigate.
[09:09] <seb128> Mithrandir: http://mail.gnome.org/archives/evolution-patches/2005-July/msg00154.html too
[09:09] <pitti> sivang: I /msg you
[09:09] <Mithrandir> seb128: already seen that, but thanks
[09:10] <Mithrandir> you know you're running development stuff when apt-get clean frees up 1.2GB.
[09:11] <sivang> pitti: thank you :)
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[09:14] <stewski> can totem in dapper play css DVDs?
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[09:16] <tseng> it can with xine and libdvdcss2
[09:16] <tseng> but not OOTB
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[09:16] <stewski> darn
[09:16] <_ion> Is anyone working on a network-manager 0.6.1 package for dapper?
[09:17] <mdke> i think totem gstreamer plays dvds with libdvdcss2
[09:17] <stewski> so the gstreamer library cannot play
[09:17] <stewski> thats what Id thought mdke
[09:17] <mdke> not 100% sure though
[09:17] <stewski> but its not working
[09:18] <mdke> stewski, best try #ubuntu
[09:18] <tseng> the dvd plugin wasnt ported to 0.10 last i heard
[09:18] <stewski> ] getting the same answer there, didnt like the answer so I came here :-)
[09:19] <mdke> tseng, oh geez
[09:19] <mjg59> The dvd plugin is ported, but not fully functional
[09:19] <stewski> this is a really common requirement great shame if totem wont be able to even support with plugin DVD playback
[09:20] <mdke> mjg59, will it work for dapper you think?
[09:20] <mjg59> mdke: I have no idea
[09:20] <mjg59> seb has been watching the situation
[09:20] <mdke> seb128, any idea? If not, we'd better update our guides
[09:21] <seb128> dvd playing works but without menu nor subtitle
[09:21] <seb128> and anyway that's not something we can ship on CD (mpeg decoder, dvdcss, etc)
[09:22] <mdke> seb128, sure. I'd make a note of the -menu -subtitle thing in the docs
[09:22] <xhaker> dvd state: vcd works.. reading .vob work.. .ifo handling doesn't work.. menus doesn't work.. trackbar is buggy
[09:22] <stewski> seb I appreciate dvd playback cant work out of the box
[09:22] <mdke> xhaker, thanks. So recommending another library is probably a good idea :)
[09:23] <stewski> but totem/gstreamer being able to play DVDs would make it easier long run
[09:23] <xhaker> mdke: gstreamer is under the gnome exception?
[09:23] <stewski> I read good things about new Gstreamer
[09:23] <mdke> stewski, there is nothing we can do if it doesn't work from upstream, except make a note of it
[09:23] <mdke> xhaker, you have to ask seb, I dunno
[09:24] <stewski> NP mdke I realise (and not trying to detract on some really excelent work for dapper)
[09:25] <seb128> stewski: it'll for sure, it's just not ready yet
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[09:25] <seb128> stewski: code for menu and subtitle is to CVS now, it just lacks the glue to been used by totem
[09:25] <stewski> smart
[09:25] <stewski> excellent hope the extra time lets this get in
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[09:26] <seb128> the issue is that fluendo guys can't work on that
[09:26] <mdke> seb128, ah so it may be in for dapper?
[09:26] <seb128> so they have to wait on contributors fo rit
[09:26] <seb128> for it
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[09:26] <seb128> mdke: might
[09:26] <mdke> seb128, when will we know? the docs will get frozen soon
[09:27] <seb128> assume it'll not work
[09:27] <mdke> seb128, ok. thanks
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[09:31] <Riddell> what is mvo's dist upgrade tool called?
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[09:37] <stewski> anyone able to get multichannel sound playback?
[09:38] <xhaker> Riddell: i believe it's exactly dist-upgrade
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[09:39] <Riddell> xhaker: no such thing in the archives
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[09:54] <sladen> what's the best way to tag a bug as a regression?
[09:55] <Burgwork> sladen, raise the severity?
[09:56] <sladen> Burgwork: I sometimes stick [regression]  in the bug title; there must be a better way
[09:57] <Burgwork> does malone have bugzilla style keywords?
[09:57] <sladen> I thought I saw a 'tag' option somewhere, but I can't find it now that looked;
[09:58] <sladen> there is a 'name' option
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[10:09] <bddebian> OK, I got install to work, now I get the following error on boot:
[10:10] <bddebian> ALERT! /dev/ida/c0d0p2 does not exist, dropping to a shell?
[10:12] <sladen> bddebian: so now that you have a shell, what does  ls -l /dev/ida  show you?
[10:12] <bddebian> nada
[10:12] <bddebian> No ida dir at all
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[10:20] <bddebian> Keybuk: ping?
[10:26] <Mithrandir> seb128: it works if I just specify the date, not the time.  It appears time_from_isodate in libecal is broken.
[10:26] <Mithrandir> seb128: I'm filing a bug now.
[10:26] <seb128> ok, thank you
[10:29] <Mithrandir> seb128: is it useful for you to get a patch for the clock applet or is it too trivial for it to save you time?
[10:29] <seb128> patch are always welcome :)
[10:30] <seb128> so I don't forget about it and I'm not tempted to be lazy 
[10:31] <Mithrandir> ok. :-)
[10:31] <Mithrandir> it's one of my pet bugs that's been around for a while, so.
[10:31] <Mithrandir> it should also support using Dates instead of Evolution, but that can probably wait for another day.
[10:32] <seb128> right
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[10:34] <Mithrandir> hmm, actually, it looks like evo needs a fix to not open another shell if it's just one URI given on the command line.
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[10:47] <Keybuk> bddebian: 'sup?
[10:48] <bddebian> Keybuk: Possible udev problem?
[10:48] <bddebian>  ALERT! /dev/ida/c0d0p2 does not exist, dropping to a shell?
[10:48] <Keybuk> none that I'm aware of
[10:48] <Keybuk> ida?
[10:48] <Keybuk> what's that?
[10:48] <bddebian> I don't know
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[10:49] <dianewong> hello
[10:49] <Keybuk> what's your kernel command-line?
[10:49] <Mithrandir> i2o
[10:49] <seb128> $ sudo grub-install /dev/hda
[10:49] <seb128> /dev/sda1 does not have any corresponding BIOS drive
[10:49] <dianewong> is there any security feature that the ubuntu livecd provides during autologin?
[10:49] <seb128> grumpf
[10:49] <bddebian> Give me a sec but I know root is:  root=/dev/ida/c0d0p2
[10:49] <seb128> does anybody knows how to fix that?
[10:49] <Mithrandir> or maybe not.  That's /dev/i2o, iirc
[10:49] <Mithrandir> seb128: rm /boot/grub/device.map so it'll reprobe
[10:50] <Keybuk> bddebian: never heard of it
[10:50] <zul> there is a grub patch that handles i2o
[10:50] <pitti> dianewong: not sure what you mean
[10:51] <Mithrandir> zul: ida's not i2o, I jumped the gun
[10:51] <dianewong> imagine im on the ubuntu livecd
[10:51] <Mithrandir> dianewong: what kind of security features?
[10:51] <seb128> Mithrandir: that was easy, thank you :)
[10:51] <dianewong> it autologs to the user "ubuntu"
[10:51] <zul> Mithrandir: ah ok
[10:52] <seb128> brb
[10:52] <dianewong> does it prevent anyone from internet to drop an eggdrop while im runnin on the livecd ?
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[10:53] <Mithrandir> dianewong: it doesn't run ssh and ssh won't allow users with a blank password to log in.
[10:53] <dianewong> is the passwd locked ?
[10:53] <Mithrandir> so unless you install ssh and change the ssh config or install ssh and set a too simple password, there's no way to get into your session
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[10:53] <dianewong> Mithrandir how does it do that?
[10:54] <dianewong> can i see the codes that prevents this?
[10:54] <tseng> its just like he said, ssh denies users with no password
[10:54] <tseng> and also like he said.. ssh doesnt even run to start with
[10:54] <tseng> if you run netstat --listen --tcp
[10:54] <Mithrandir> dianewong: : tfheen@vawad ~ > grep PermitEmpty /etc/ssh/sshd_config
[10:54] <Mithrandir> PermitEmptyPasswords no
[10:54] <bddebian> Keybuk: "kernel /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.15-18-i386 root=/dev/ida/c0p0p2 ro noapic nolapic quiet splash"
[10:54] <tseng> you will see that the only listening services are bound to the loopback address
[10:55] <Keybuk> bddebian: did it work with -17 then?
[10:55] <Mithrandir> dianewong: also, there's no ssh daemon listening unless you explicitly install one
[10:55] <bddebian> In looking in /proc/modules, I don't think the Compaq SmartArrary 431 is getting picked up
[10:55] <bddebian> Keybuk: This is a new install
[10:55] <Keybuk> bddebian: is that driver in the initramfs?
[10:55] <bddebian> Hmm, I don't know, sorry.  How do I look?
[10:56] <Keybuk> modprobe? :)
[10:56] <bddebian> I don't know which driver it uses? :-(
[10:57] <Keybuk> CPQARRAY ?
[10:57] <dianewong> thanks
[10:57] <bddebian> Probably should be, I'll try it
[10:57] <dianewong> another question though
[10:57] <Keybuk> try it, see if /dev/ida turns up
[10:57] <dianewong> tohow it was ensured that the screensaver never asks for a password
[10:59] <ogra> it isnt yet ...
[10:59] <ogra> you can currently use "lock screen" 
[10:59] <bddebian> Keybuk: module cpqarray not found :(
[11:00] <Keybuk> iz initramfs bug
[11:00] <Keybuk> blame infinity
[11:00] <dianewong> ogra: what to you mean ?
[11:00] <dianewong> ogra: what do you mean ?
[11:00] <marcin`> hello guys - I got strange question and I'm sure that you will send me to #ubuntu
[11:01] <ogra> dianewong, it isnt "insured yet" i have a bug open about that behavior 
[11:01] <marcin`> but I'm also almost sure that anyone on #ubuntu will know solution so please let me try
[11:01] <ogra> s/yet"/"yet/
=== bddebian blames infinity
[11:01] <bddebian> OK, so can I fix it?
=== zul blames canada
[11:01] <bddebian> zul: :-)
[11:01] <marcin`> my problem is - I use Terminus font on Gnome but I also use Ratpoison as WindowManager
[11:01] <dianewong> ogra: can i view that bug ?
[11:02] <ogra> bddebian, /etc/mkinitramfs/modules
[11:02] <ogra> try to add it there
[11:02] <bddebian> ogra: OK, thx
[11:02] <marcin`> and if I set my font as default for gtk apps in .gtrc then it work on Ratpoison - but not in Mozilla Firefox
[11:02] <ogra> and rebuild the initramfs indeed 
[11:03] <marcin`> could some developer tell me what could be reason of this behaviour?
[11:03] <dianewong> ogra: can i view that bug ?
[11:03] <ogra> dianewong, yes, sorry, took a second
[11:03] <ogra> bug 30118
[11:03] <Ubugtu> malone bug 30118 in gnome-screensaver "LiveCD: default user password, lock screen problem" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/30118
[11:04] <bddebian> ogra: I don't have that dir, or do I need to boot install CD and mount it ?
[11:05] <ogra> oh, yes, chroot into the system indeed 
[11:05] <bddebian> Hmm
[11:06] <ogra> (rescue mode might do it)
[11:06] <bddebian> OK I'll try.  How do I rebuild initramfs?
[11:06] <Keybuk> update-initramfs -u
[11:06] <bddebian> thanks
[11:06] <dianewong> thanks ogra 
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[11:07] <mjg59> sladen: No, the copying ought to be there
[11:08] <mjg59> Also, I'm not sure about the panel stuff. Surely that's Intel-specific? Do we have any idea what that would do on other hardware?
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[11:10] <ogra> Mithrandir, would it be possible to add widescreen resolutions to the liveCD bootmenu ?
[11:11] <Mithrandir> ogra: you realise they're not used by X?
[11:11] <Mithrandir> it's just for console
[11:11] <ogra> sadly, yes ...
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[11:11] <mjg59> ogra: No
[11:11] <mjg59> ogra: They're VESA modes
[11:11] <seb128> Mithrandir: still around?
[11:11] <Mithrandir> seb128: yes
[11:12] <mjg59> ogra: Widescreen ones aren't standardised, to the best of my knowledge
[11:12] <ogra> mjg59, like video=vesafb:mtrr1280x800-16@72  ?
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[11:12] <seb128> Mithrandir: you craked on xkb stuff right? did you look on xkeyboard-config 0.6 to 0.8 update? I've just built it and tried, it fixed the gnome-settings-daemon when using multiple layouts or compose option by example and add a good bunch of new layouts that could be useful for the l10n goal
[11:13] <mjg59> ogra: No...
[11:13] <seb128> Mithrandir: if you didn't I'll ask an UVF for it I think
[11:13] <ogra> ah, k
[11:13] <mjg59> ogra: VESAfb can't change mode. That's done by the bootloader or the kernel startup code (I can't remember which)
[11:13] <Mithrandir> seb128: I haven't looked at it at all, no.  I'm probably going to rush through it tomorrow while waving my amazing Korean keyboard.
[11:13] <ogra> ah, k 
[11:13] <Mithrandir> seb128: could we take a look at it tomorrow?
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[11:14] <Tonio_> Kamion: ping ?
[11:14] <Mithrandir> seb128: given that I'm on my way to bed now.
[11:14] <Tonio_> hi everyone
[11:14] <seb128> Mithrandir: sure, I can ask the UVF exception if you want, it was just to not dup work
[11:15] <Mithrandir> seb128: sure, take the lock on xkb-c and run with it.
[11:15] <seb128> lol
[11:15] <Mithrandir> seb128: also, if you could take a look at the evo patch I just posted (#35118) we're a bit closer to the "make the clock applet's integration with evo be way better"
[11:15] <seb128> I'm happy to give the lock if you want it :) I just want the new version for dapper since it fixes the g-s-d crasher which is one of the frequent GNOME users complain we have
[11:16] <seb128> will do, thank you
[11:16] <Mithrandir> seb128: either way works for me.
[11:16] <Mithrandir> seb128: I'll review it tomorrow and ask for UVF, then.
[11:16] <seb128> ok, thank you
[11:16] <Mithrandir> see you around.
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[11:17] <bddebian> ogra or Keybuk: OK, I added cpqarray to /tmpmnt/mkinitramfs/modules  but I can't find update-initramfs ?
[11:17] <seb128> Mithrandir: 'night
[11:18] <bddebian> Err /tmpmnt/etc/mkinitramfs/modules even :-)
[11:18] <ogra> hmm ...
[11:19] <ogra> do you have a separate /usr ?
[11:19] <ogra> /usr/sbin/update-initramfs
[11:19] <bddebian> Well / is the ramdisk, should it be there?
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[11:19] <bddebian> I don't see it in /tmpmnt/usr/sbin/
[11:20] <ogra> hmm, its in initramfs-tools usually ...
[11:21] <ogra> which should be installed ...
[11:23] <sladen> mjg59: 915resolution is intel-specific, and that's the only use-case.  The function it uses is defined by VESA as part of their Liquid-Flat-Panel extensions
[11:24] <mjg59> sladen: But you'e given me a patch for vbetool
[11:24] <mjg59> So, uhm.
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[11:25] <mjg59> Or do you mean you want to call vbetool from 915resolution?
[11:25] <sladen> mjg59: yes, see http://www.paul.sladen.org/ubuntu/upload/915resolution_0.5-1ubuntu2panelid2.debdiff
[11:25] <sladen> mjg59: auto-detect magic for 915resolution
[11:26] <mjg59> sladen: Also, the HP stuff is still wrong. 
[11:26] <mjg59> You're just resetting what's already there
[11:26] <mjg59> So my suspicion is that the Compaq ones there are also fine
[11:26] <bddebian> ogra: OK, I lied, I found it in /tmpmnt/usr/sbin
[11:27] <pitti> Riddell: amarok and gwenview translations have arrived
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[11:27] <bddebian> But it didn't seem to work.  Can I specify /tmpmnt/boot/initrd.img with update-initramfs?
[11:28] <pitti> Riddell: I'll just have some troubles with gwenview, it has yet another different format for storing translations, so this needs manual special-casing in langpack-o-matic
[11:28] <bddebian> I.E. something like /tmpmnt/usr/sbin/update-initramfs -u /tmpmnt/boot/initrd.img ?
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[11:30] <ogra> chroot /tmpmnt update-initramfs -u 
[11:30] <bddebian> Oh duh.. :-)
[11:31] <bddebian> Well it'll have to wait until tomorrow or I'm getting an ass-whiping from the wife.
[11:31] <bddebian> THanks ogra and Keybuk.
[11:31] <sladen> mjg59: which particular part of the HP stuff?  dmi strings, mappings, ..?
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[11:32] <mjg59> sladen: The mappings
[11:33] <sladen> mjg59: I can run a awk over and comment out any that are setting $value to $value
[11:33] <mjg59> sladen: Ok
[11:33] <mjg59> +setkeycodese05f$KEY_SLEEP# Fn+F3Sleep(matches compaq.hk)
[11:33] <mjg59> That's a noop
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=== Keybuk boggles at the "1280x1024 is an abomination" people
[11:48] <_ion> Well, it's perfectly fine if you have a 5:4 monitor.
[11:48] <Keybuk> which most people do
[11:48] <_ion> Most people have a 4:3 monitor.
[11:48] <Keybuk> certainly nearly everyone who'd have that as a recommend resolution has a 5:4 monitor
[11:49] <Keybuk> no
[11:49] <Keybuk> TFTs are nearly always 5:4
=== Keybuk hands _ion a ruler
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[11:49] <_ion> Maybe TFTs are more popular in your country than.
[11:49] <Keybuk> most CRTs are 5:4 too
=== _ion hands keybuk a ruler. :-)
[11:49] <HrdwrBoB> most people I know have TFTs
[11:50] <Keybuk> the really old ones probably aren't, but those can't do 1280x1024 either :)
[11:50] <Keybuk> I've never seen a 4:3 19" CRT, or TFT
[11:50] <sladen> mjg59: e05f is 223, the code kernel code is 142
[11:50] <mjg59> sladen: There is not a linear mapping between these two things
[11:50] <Keybuk> (that's not to say they don't exist, of course)
[11:51] <HrdwrBoB>   dimensions:    1600x1200 pixels (402x302 millimeters)
[11:51] <mjg59> Keybuk: See drivers/input/keyboard/atkbd.c
[11:52] <mjg59> Uh.
[11:52] <mjg59> sladen: ^
[11:52] <mjg59> (sorry)
[11:52] <mjg59> sladen: atkbd_set2_keycode[223] =142
[11:54] <Keybuk> HrdwrBoB: what's the pixel pitch of that?  does it have non-square pixels?
[11:54] <Keybuk> (which a lot of CRTs have)
[11:54] <mjg59> Keybuk: CRTs don't have pixels...
[11:54] <sladen> mjg59: okay, based on that I have to grep drivers/input/keyboard/atkbd.c instead...  oooh the indirection turns me on
[11:54] <Keybuk> mjg59: uh, right
[11:54] <Keybuk> is "dot pitch" the right term?
[11:54] <Keybuk> something like that
[11:54] <HrdwrBoB> yes
[11:54] <Keybuk> hardware is not my best field :p
[11:55] <HrdwrBoB> I can't remember the numbers, but it's enough
[11:55] <HrdwrBoB> 21" trinitron CRT
[11:55] <HrdwrBoB> 0.24mm Aperture grille pitch
[11:55] <mjg59> Keybuk: The phosphor dots may be non-square, but it's desirable to use square pixels most of the time
[11:55] <mjg59> 1280x1024 is strange in that respect
[11:55] <Keybuk> I do know that 1280x1024 is almost always suggested for TFTs, which are 5:4
[11:55] <mjg59> Since it's the only "standard" mode that gives non-square pixels on 4:3 CRTs
[11:56] <mjg59> What shape the TFT is is unimportant. Using anything other than the native resolution is insane.
[11:56] <Keybuk> CRTs tend to suggest 1152x864 or 1600x1200 instead
[11:56] <HrdwrBoB> exactly
[11:56] <mjg59> There was a phase of 1280x1024
[11:56] <mjg59> It was popular for a long time before TFTs were
[11:56] <Keybuk> would have thought a CRT would suggest 1280x960 instead
[11:56] <mjg59> Nope
[11:56] <mjg59> No idea why
[11:56] <HrdwrBoB> yes, most 19" monitors suggest 1280x1024
[11:56] <Keybuk> kooky
[11:57] <Keybuk> still doesn't make it an abomination, given it's not only the native resolution of most 19" TFTs but also the only correct aspect one :)
[11:58] <HrdwrBoB> it's also the native resolution of most 17" TFTs
[11:58] <HrdwrBoB> which means 19" TFTs annoying and pointless imho
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[11:58] <Keybuk> I find the 17" too "high res"
[11:58] <HrdwrBoB> there is no such thing
[11:58] <Surak> hello
=== Lathiat has 19s, i have 1680x1050 on my 15.4" widescreen tho and thats too high res for me, it looks nice tho :)
[11:59] <Keybuk> you get less screen space on a 17" with the same (ruler) size fonts as on a 19" monitor
[11:59] <Surak> which is the person I need to talk to to have ubugtu in #ubuntu-br?
[11:59] <Keybuk> pixel size, the fonts on a 17" are smaller than on a 19"
[11:59] <Keybuk> for those of us with wonky eyesight, that's a bad thing <g>
[11:59] <ogra> Surak, Seveas 
[12:00] <Surak> ogra: thanks
[12:00] <Keybuk> whatever your dad told you, size *is* important ;)
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[12:00] <HrdwrBoB> yeah, the 19" is bigger, but I'd rather go up to the 20" where suddenly you get 1600x1200 or whatever
[12:00] <Keybuk> see, that's my reason for *not* going to the 20" - because then everything would get too small for me to see
[12:00] <HrdwrBoB> couldn't you just increase the font size?
[12:01] <Keybuk> font size doesn't increase the width of things like the cursor bar
[12:01] <Keybuk> or the width of scrollbars, etc.
[12:01] <HrdwrBoB> this is why everything should be scalable and zoomable.. the dot pitch of your display should be independant of the size of the interface
[12:01] <Keybuk> sadly most of those things are still fixed size in pixels, which is silly
[12:01] <HrdwrBoB> that said, I do a lot of work on my X40 which has small pixels and size 8 fonts
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