[12:36] <natroll> i love the artwork on login in dapper
[12:36] <natroll> its so polished
[12:52] <LaserJock> natroll: you bet ;-)
[12:53] <natroll> and stinkin dapper keeps reminding me my battery is charged
[12:53] <natroll> it rules
[12:56] <raphink> natroll: what else?
[12:56] <raphink> you enjoy dapper kicking too ? :)
[12:56] <natroll> it's so sweet
[12:57] <raphink> too bad I can't provide it to you
[12:57] <natroll> ?
[12:57] <natroll> yeah...so...how bout them bears?
[01:00] <natroll> lol, no matter what i do i can't get dapper to stop notifying me that the battery is charged!  it's possessed or something, this is great
[01:00] <natroll> it's much prettier too
[01:07] <minghua> natroll: I used to have that battery notification problem too, but it disappeared several weeks ago
[01:08] <natroll> minghua, do you believe in magic? ;)
[01:09] <minghua> natroll: well, it disappeard after an upgrade, so I took for granted some new package fixed it
[01:09] <minghua> I can't rule out magic, of course ;-)
[01:10] <natroll> updating and upgrading now
[01:10] <natroll> wow, lots to upgrade
[01:10] <natroll> one must fix her right up
[01:15] <natroll> erg, i gotta restart, bbl
[01:32] <Kyral> we need a Xubuntu Live
[01:32] <Tm_T> we need better drugs
[01:32] <Tm_T> ...I do, atleast
[01:32] <natroll--> we need a computer forensics ubuntu distro called fubuntu
[01:33] <Tm_T> these painkillers doesn't take pain away ;(
[01:33] <natroll--> oh, right, i'm ont hat
[01:33] <Kyral> natroll--: no thats Fluxbox Ubuntu :P
[01:33] <Tm_T> Kyral: wash your mouth!
[01:33] <natroll--> nein!  it's forensics ubuntu
[01:33] <Kyral> hmm?
[01:33] <tseng> there is a forensics ubuntu
[01:33] <tseng> and it runs fluxbox
[01:33] <tseng> you are both right
[01:33] <natroll--> ?
[01:34] <Kyral> oh
[01:34] <natroll--> forensics ubuntu? where?
[01:34] <Tm_T> yuk
[01:34] <tseng> let me find it
[01:34] <tseng> nubuntu
[01:34] <natroll--> no, thats not the same thing as what i'm proposing
[01:34] <Kyral> yah definately a better name than "Flubuntu"
[01:34] <tseng> different how
[01:34] <Tm_T> flu season!
[01:35] <natroll--> Flubuntu, avianflubuntu
[01:35] <Kyral> lol
[01:35] <natroll--> tseng, geared towards data acquisition and data-mining, i understand nubuntu is geared towards the network side of things
[01:36] <tseng> i have no idea what you are talking about
[01:36] <tseng> give me a package list
[01:36] <tseng> to give me a direction
[01:36] <natroll--> tseng, i haven't made it yet
[01:36] <tseng> just throw one out there
[01:36] <natroll--> check out autopsy, that's already included
[01:36] <natroll--> or pyflag.sourceforge.net
[01:36] <tseng> i am thinking Coroners Toolkit
[01:37] <tseng> type stuff
[01:37] <tseng> which is probably in nubuntu
[01:37] <natroll--> or a good data-acquisition distro: http://www.e-fense.org/helix
[01:38] <natroll--> tseng: nah, nubuntu is networking ubuntu, not computer forensics, which deals with evidence gathering and mining evidence off of hard drives
[01:38] <tseng> sigh
[01:38] <tseng> did you get that in 2 seconds from reading the tagline?
[01:38] <natroll--> what?
[01:38] <tseng> http://www.nubuntu.com/
[01:38] <tseng> there are two nubuntus it seems
[01:38] <natroll--> tseng, i'm looking at the package list
[01:38] <natroll--> tseng, i see
[01:39] <tseng> http://www.nubuntu.com/installed.txt
[01:39] <natroll--> and again, its networking and penetration testing, which is not computer forensics
[01:39] <tseng> its in the same category
[01:39] <tseng> would be nice to add forensics to that
[01:40] <natroll--> actually its not in the same category
[01:40] <natroll--> not to be argumentative, but it simply isn't
[01:41] <tseng> yeah
[01:41] <natroll--> i'm aiding in the development of a computer forensics curriculum
[01:41] <tseng> no reason id possibly want penetration testing and forensics on the same disc
[01:41] <tseng> I must be crazy.
[01:41] <natroll--> so, i noticed a lack of distros supporting or geared towards it
[01:41] <LaserJock> although people interested in one would probably be interested in both
[01:42] <natroll--> LaserJock, yes, but the requirements for them are very different
[01:42] <LaserJock> natroll--: fine, but it seems like it might be worth adding forensics to nubuntu
[01:42] <natroll--> like inherent system behaviors, such as automounting as read only, if automounting at all
[01:43] <natroll--> LaserJock, check out www.e-fense.com/helix
[01:45] <LaserJock> natroll--: well, I'm not really knowledgeable in that area but it seems like there might be a common user base
[01:46] <natroll--> LaserJock, I understand what you're saying, but the requirements for the tasks associated with each are conflicting.  This is why we have separate liveCD distros for penetration testing and computer forensics.  and this is why helix has dropped almost all networking utilities of any kind
[01:47] <natroll--> example of penetration testing distro: auditor
[01:48] <LaserJock> hmm, I see
[01:49] <natroll--> hehe
[01:49] <Kyral> gah
[01:49] <natroll--> well, i just see a niche that isn't filled that ubuntu could do nicely
[01:50] <Kyral> suddenly I am not liking ubuntu's default install
[01:50] <LaserJock> although I was almost a "computer scientist"
[01:50] <natroll--> LaserJock, then you learned how to do even simple tasks with a computer, and that was out the door?
[01:50] <natroll--> erg, i should hush
[01:51] <LaserJock> natroll--: I just found that I liked chemistry better (albeit Physical Chemistry)
[01:51] <natroll--> LaserJock, ahh, fun.  are you working in the field or goin to school for it?
[01:52] <LaserJock> natroll--: trying to finish my PhD at the moment
[01:52] <Kyral> I have half a mind to move to Debian
[01:52] <LaserJock> Kyral: and do what?
[01:52] <Kyral> I dunno
[01:52] <natroll--> LaserJock, nice :D
[01:53] <Kyral> I can see the reasoning behind all these decisions...but its making my life a pain....-ERANT
[01:53] <LaserJock> a pain?
[01:53] <natroll--> Kyral, make your own preseed?
[01:54] <Kyral> or my own MetaPack
[01:54] <Kyral> just leave it on my webserver
[01:54] <LaserJock> I don't see how K/Ubuntu is any more a pain than Debian.
[01:54] <natroll--> yeah, i'm working on something at the moment for this
[01:54] <natroll--> Kyral, something similar i mean
[01:54] <natroll--> Kyral, messing with preseeds, metapackages, etc
[01:55] <natroll--> Kyral, let me tell ya, WHAT A PAIN
[01:55] <LaserJock> Kyral: what is the problem exactly? just curious
[01:56] <Kyral> Oh, like no XChat (Irssi is installed but that don't TELL you)
[01:56] <Tm_T> irssi <3
[01:57] <LaserJock> Kyral: and Debian gives you that?
[01:57] <Kyral> LaserJock, I'd rather go from scratch :P
[01:57] <LaserJock> oh, well that makes sense. I've done that before
[01:57] <LaserJock> server install
[01:57] <natroll--> it stinks to customize the repos in the installer....it's all very 'hacky'
[01:58] <LaserJock> but right now I just do everything in Dapper and Sid chroots I have on a sarg box
[01:59] <LaserJock> "dpkg --get-selections" is also a interesting
[02:00] <LaserJock> if you have things already set up
[02:01] <LaserJock> If I could put a 2.4 kernel in Dapper I'd replace sarge with dapper
[02:01] <minghua> Hmm
[02:02] <LaserJock> minghua: yeah, I had to get an early sarge to get the 2.4
[02:02] <natroll--> a lot
[02:02] <minghua> early sarge?  No LaserJock, the official sarge installer supports 2.4 kernel
[02:02] <minghua> LaserJock: you probably need to boot it with "linux24" or something though
[02:03] <minghua> then you get a 2.4 kernel
[02:03] <Kyral> I'll prolly switch over to KDE when I do my reinstall this weekend
[02:03] <LaserJock> minghua: does it. if I remember right I had to do a sarge that was still "testing" but maybe I'm wrong
[02:03] <minghua> both for the installer and for the installed system
[02:03] <Tm_T> KDE <3
[02:03] <minghua> LaserJock: I am very sure sarge has both 2.4 and 2.6 support for i386, I just don't remember which is default
[02:04] <natroll--> gnome in dapper is much prettier
[02:04] <minghua> oh LaserJock your is i386, isn't it?
[02:04] <LaserJock> minghua: stupid proprietary National Instruments drivers :(
[02:04] <natroll--> it's like breezy is the ugly younger sister
[02:04] <Tm_T> natroll--: =)
[02:04] <Tm_T> natroll--: older
[02:04] <natroll--> right
[02:04] <natroll--> thats what i said ;D
[02:04] <Tm_T> ah, you're right ;)
[02:05] <natroll--> Tm_T, you should take a look at the Kororaa liveCD, it's like the supermodel next door
[02:05] <Tm_T> natroll--: I hope Gnome doesn't look like this: http://www.tm-travolta.net/shots/current.png
[02:05] <Tm_T> silly wallpaper though =)
[02:06] <natroll--> nope, mine sure doesn't
[02:06] <LaserJock> minghua: yeah 1386
[02:06] <natroll--> i reinstall and mess around too much for that :/
[02:06] <Tm_T> natroll--: yeah, because that's my KDE desktop ;)
[02:06] <natroll--> Tm_T, purdy :)
[02:06] <LaserJock> that looks like an edubuntu logo up there
[02:07] <natroll--> kedubuntu
[02:07] <Tm_T> LaserJock: http://kapsi.fi/tm_travolta/kuvat/temp/kedubuntu-basic-03.svg
[02:07] <Tm_T> it's Ubuntu-Edubuntu-Kubuntu
[02:07] <Tm_T> stupid thing I'm playing around
[02:07] <natroll--> your poor machine... ;D
[02:08] <Tm_T> natroll--: I only have Kubuntu ofcourse
[02:08] <Tm_T> I don't need Gnome =)
[02:08] <natroll--> Tm_T, ahh
[02:09] <Kyral> GNOME's philosopy has been angering me lately
[02:09] <natroll--> Tm_T, meh, i like both of them, gnome is more convenient for me with this distro though
[02:09] <Tm_T> but my idea with that logo is to show that we share same packages mostly
[02:09] <natroll--> Kyral, simple with sane defaults?
[02:09] <natroll--> isn't that their philosophy?
[02:09] <Kyral> sane defaults yes
[02:09] <natroll--> or am i off?
[02:09] <Kyral> but I'm a powertweaker lol
[02:10] <natroll--> yeah, lol
[02:10] <Kyral> KDE allows you to tweak
[02:10] <natroll--> yep
[02:10] <Kyral> but hides them within easy reach
[02:10] <LaserJock> Here's my current screenshot: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/10257
[02:10] <natroll--> and it's pretty
[02:10] <Kyral> plus...GConf reminds me WAAAY too much of the XP Registry
[02:10] <minghua> I have a stupid question about amd64 ubuntu.  I don't have amd64 hardware, just curious
[02:11] <Tm_T> LaserJock: yul
[02:11] <minghua> where are the 32bit library in amd64 ubuntu go?  did they change locations between breezy and dapper?
[02:11] <natroll--> Tm_T, i smell mac
[02:11] <LaserJock> natroll--: its i386 I swear
[02:11] <natroll--> i'd have a mac if i could afford it
[02:11] <minghua> I am asking because I see a (Chinese) user talking about a bug related to 32bit libraries
[02:12] <natroll--> LaserJock, intel mac?
[02:12] <natroll--> ;D
[02:12] <LaserJock> natroll--: darn, got me :-)
[02:13] <natroll--> wow, must be nice
[02:13] <LaserJock> not especially
[02:13] <LaserJock> I wanted an AMD64
[02:13] <Tm_T> LaserJock: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5743023802294495063
[02:13] <Tm_T> ;)
[02:13] <natroll--> to quote ferris, "I wanted a car....and I got a computer"
[02:14] <Kyral> Anyone know if I can spread an LVM group across two HDs?
[02:14] <minghua> of course you can (although I've never done it)
[02:14] <natroll--> Kyral, that's it's biggest benefit
[02:14] <minghua> that's one of the major point of LVM after all
[02:14] <Kyral> natroll--, I'm gonna do a COMPLETE wipe of my Production Box soon
[02:14] <Kyral> too much crap
[02:15] <natroll--> Kyral, yeah, i know the feeling, i do that like once a month or so lately
[02:15] <Kyral> I want to "unify" my /home and my /anime partitions as one massive LVM group when I do
[02:15] <natroll--> but i go nuts on it
[02:15] <Kyral> oh SHIT
[02:15] <natroll--> poop?
[02:15] <Kyral> I have to backup my .gnupg folder first
[02:15] <LaserJock> Tm_T: that's funny, lol
[02:16] <natroll--> i thought you forgot your mom outside in the cold or something, sheesh
[02:16] <minghua> always back up your gpg key, not before reinstall :-)
[02:16] <natroll--> poor old woman in a wheel chair
[02:16] <Kyral> minghua, I'm nuking the partition
[02:16] <Kyral> so I have to backup my passwords....my GNUPG...my music...
[02:16] <natroll--> Kyral, he means just make it a practice, not just before reinstall
[02:16] <Kyral> ah
[02:16] <minghua> my point was _always_ keep a backup of your GPG key
[02:17] <Tm_T> LaserJock: also sooo true
[02:17] <minghua> because things happen
[02:17] <Kyral> minghua, yah...
[02:17] <LaserJock> Tm_T: well, not so much for me. but still funny
[02:17] <Tm_T> LaserJock: that dock thing in osx... aergh!
[02:17] <natroll--> pete and repeat were on a boat, pete fell off, who was left?
[02:17] <Kyral> Basically I have 460 GB combined storage
[02:17] <Kyral> I'm gonna use 15 for /
[02:17] <Kyral> and LVM the rest into /home
[02:17] <natroll--> ha
[02:18] <natroll--> Kyral, i use my var directory for that
[02:18] <natroll--> Kyral, for the biggun
[02:18] <Kyral> 300 GB IDE and 160 GB SATA
[02:18] <Kyral> so 15 on the IDE and LVM the rest of the IDE + SATA
[02:18] <natroll--> ok, gl hf
[02:19] <Kyral> 'cept I know little about LVM lol
[02:19] <Kyral> could GParted make it?
[02:19] <LaserJock> man, with all that space I'd have like 10 different distros
[02:19] <natroll--> google to the rescue, imo
[02:20] <Kyral> nah I need the space for anime storage
[02:20] <natroll--> i'm gonna go to bet, i'm over 26 hours awake now
[02:20] <natroll--> s/bet/bed
[02:20] <minghua> Kyral: the text-based installer has a good LVM manager for beginners, IMO
[02:20] <Kyral> hmm
[02:21] <natroll--> later guys, have fun :D
[02:21] <LaserJock> good night natroll--
[02:21] <Kyral> I know the concept...but I dunno the commands to make it lol
[02:21] <Kyral> actually hmm
[02:21] <Kyral> this is a chance to redo my partitioning scheme...
[02:21] <Kyral> I make make a separate /boot while I am at it
[02:22] <LaserJock> Kyral: why?
[02:22] <Kyral> dunno
[02:22] <Kyral> so it can stay unmounted most of the time?
[02:23] <LaserJock> I see
[02:24] <LaserJock> well, I'll probably redo my Ubuntu box for Dapper+1
[02:26] <Kyral> I wish ZFS was ported to Linux
[02:36] <ajmitch> Kyral: why would you have /boot unmounted?
[02:36] <Kyral> dunno
[02:36] <ajmitch> the only reason I have a separate /boot is because / is LVM
[02:36] <Kyral> ah
[02:37] <Kyral> ajmitch, how efficient is LVM?
[02:37] <ajmitch> & in my new box, / will be LVM on RAID
[02:37] <ajmitch> efficient? what do you mean?
[02:37] <ajmitch> space? speed?
[02:37] <Kyral> compared to a "normal" partition
[02:37] <Kyral> both
[02:37] <ajmitch> there shouldn't really be a difference
[02:44] <Kyral> I heard you can live resize with LVM
[02:44] <Kyral> or at least non-destructive resize
[02:45] <ajmitch> yes
[02:45] <Kyral> hmm
[02:45] <ajmitch> most people don't need that though
[02:45] <ajmitch> few desktop users, at least
[02:45] <Kyral> yah but I'm one of those people who tweaks far more than he should
[04:25] <Mr_Spiff> hey
[04:25] <Mr_Spiff> can i get debug builds?
[04:26] <bddebian> debug builds?
[04:27] <Mr_Spiff> yeah so firefox segfaults on my dapper laptop
[04:27] <Mr_Spiff> so I want a build with symbols
[04:28] <Mr_Spiff> $ gdb firefox
[04:28] <bddebian> I think you can either use nostrip option or remove dh_strip from debian/rules
[04:29] <Mr_Spiff> i was hoping for more of a change to apt/sources.list and avoid the compiling
[04:30] <bddebian> Not going to happen, sorry
[04:30] <bddebian> Debian and Ubuntu strip all packages afaik
[04:30] <Mr_Spiff> yeah it would be a very large repos.
[04:37] <Mr_Spiff> but wouldn't it lead to better bug reports?
[04:38] <Erlang> The people that know how to use Debug package should also know how to rebuild a package with dh_strip removed right?
[04:40] <Mr_Spiff> kinda.  See what I would do when reporting this bug is attach the core w/ symbols or an indication of what went wrong
[04:41] <Mr_Spiff> now, I have to make firefox compile on crappy laptop and hope the same problem occurs...
[04:45] <Mr_Spiff> does launchpad include debian bugs
[04:45] <Mr_Spiff> or do I search this, debian and moz bugs?
[04:45] <Erlang> I see your point.  It has been made several times I think, but I think the general concensus are that it's not practical enough to be supported technically.  That's how I read it.
[04:47] <Mr_Spiff> cool just venting.  Once I start it will probably become easy to compile stuff
[05:05] <minghua> Hmm, can an uploader archive his own uplod on REVU?
[05:16] <Kyral> Night MOTU
[05:27] <minghua> Hmm, scim-m17n indeed seem to be broken in dapper...
[05:28] <LaserJock> hmm, didn't that just get uploaded
[05:28] <LaserJock> I thought I saw that go by in dapper-changes recently
[05:29] <LaserJock> minghua: have you noticed the debtags thread in debian-science?
[05:29] <minghua> LaserJock: I think you saw m17n-db
[05:30] <minghua> LaserJock: yes, but I doubt debtags would be very useful for ubuntu
[05:30] <LaserJock> minghua: perhaps, I wonder if our list might be of use the Debian?
[05:31] <LaserJock> s/the/to/
[05:31] <LaserJock> probably not I guess.
[05:32] <minghua> LaserJock: in which way?  the debtag is multi-demensional, what area would your list help (I admit I haven't looked at it recently)?
[05:32] <LaserJock> minghua: well I think the idea is to be able to find science related apps by discipline perhaps
[05:33] <LaserJock> we need to have a comprehensive list of packages
[05:33] <LaserJock> but maybe we could eventually break those down by discipline too
[05:33] <LaserJock> I don't know, I was just thinking of ways we can help debian-science
[05:34] <minghua> LaserJock: yeah I agree that's a good idea
[05:34] <minghua> LaserJock: is your list already separating the packages by disciplines?
[05:35] <LaserJock> minghua: right now I have ~ 420 source packages split up into math, science, electronics, and misc
[05:35] <minghua> from what I read debtags has this field:: facet which can differentiate disciplines
[05:35] <LaserJock> minghua: where math, science, and electronics just come from there respective sections nothing difficult
[05:36] <minghua> LaserJock: but that's just section, isn't it?
[05:36] <minghua> yeah, that's what I thought.  and I feel sometimes maintainer miscategorize their package to wrong section
[05:36] <LaserJock> right, but I think we see more of the breadth of packages because we look after them all
[05:37] <LaserJock> so maybe we are better able to provide more appropriate lists
[05:39] <minghua> LaserJock: if we want to work on that, then yes, I agree it would be useful to Debian, especially the debtags team
[05:40] <LaserJock> I don't think it should be our top priority for sure, but it may be something useful for us in the future
[05:41] <LaserJock> I would like to have stuff to offer debian-science that is easier for us to do because of our structure
[05:41] <minghua> yeah, it's not much use to categorize the packages if they are uninstallable or plainly crash on start ;-)
[05:42] <LaserJock> for sure, but then that is maybe another area
[05:43] <LaserJock> I think we can have an overall better feel for the shape the science related packages are in
[05:43] <G0SUB> minghua: LaserJock
[05:43] <minghua> LaserJock: to be honest I don't feel _I_ want to get a overall better feel myself
[05:44] <minghua> LaserJock: I am not that ambitious to shepherd all science packages in ubuntu
[05:44] <G0SUB> minghua: how stable is scim-m17n ?
[05:44] <minghua> G0SUB: well, it plainly doesn't start here
[05:45] <G0SUB> minghua: same here ...
[05:45] <LaserJock> minghua: I can understand that, but as a group I think we are better able to look at things
[05:45] <minghua> G0SUB: I'll have to look at it more closely later
[05:45] <G0SUB> minghua: okay, that's fine
[05:45] <LaserJock> minghua: for instance it is going to be relatively easy for us to see how many and where bugs are
[05:45] <G0SUB> minghua: btw, are there any chances of getting SCIM into main / the CD?
[05:45] <minghua> LaserJock: sure, if you need help on computation physics/chemistry part, I am willing to help
[05:46] <minghua> G0SUB: I am not involved in that part, please contace freeflying for main inclusion of SCIM
[05:46] <G0SUB> minghua: fine
[05:47] <minghua> okay, I'll log out and test scim-m17n again...
[05:57] <xBeatrix> uhm......hello guys.   am not an ubuntu repository mainainer but have a few questions.......is that ok if i ask you guys? :-[:-[:-[
[05:59] <LaserJock> xBeatrix: maybe :-)
[06:00] <minghua> now I am in real trouble:  I can't figure out why scim is autostarted when I login :-(
[06:00] <minghua> hmm, maybe I have an idea
[06:01] <LaserJock> xBeatrix: what's your question?
[06:02] <minghua> yeah, got it right this time :-)
[06:03] <LaserJock> minghua: bug?
[06:03] <minghua> LaserJock: not really, just scim trying to be too smart
[06:04] <LaserJock> oh, I hate that. MS Office always tries that on me ;-)
[06:04] <minghua> LaserJock: scim has this feature to autostart when some condition is met
[06:04] <LaserJock> interesting
[06:04] <minghua> the problem is that these condition keeps changing from release to release
[06:04] <xBeatrix> i followed the instructions at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/InstallCDCustomizationHowTo
[06:05] <minghua> and since I don't use this autostart feature, I forgot it in the first place
[06:05] <xBeatrix> when i came to:
[06:05] <xBeatrix> cd $BUILD sudo apt-ftparchive -c $APTCONF generate /path/to/apt-ftparchive-deb.conf
[06:05] <xBeatrix> when i typed:  sudo apt-ftparchive -c $APTCONF generate /path/to/apt-ftparchive-deb.conf
[06:06] <xBeatrix> it says:
[06:06] <xBeatrix> E: Could not open file /dists/breezy/extras/binary-i386/Packages.gz.new  - open (2 Nop such file or directory)
[06:06] <xBeatrix> E: Could not open file /dists/breezy/extras/binary-i386/Packages.new -  open (2 Nop such file or directory)
[06:07] <xBeatrix> E: Error processing directory pool/extras
[06:07] <xBeatrix> Done Packages, Starting contents. Done. 0B in 0 archives. Took 0s
[06:11] <LaserJock> xBeatrix: have you looked at the apt-ftparchive man page? and make sure you are doing it right?
[06:12] <ajmitch> and do you actually have the configuration files it wanted, and you didn't literally type out /path/to/apt-ftparchive-deb.conf ?
[06:13] <xBeatrix> i got these files : apt-ftparchive-deb.conf
[06:13] <xBeatrix> apt-ftparchive-udeb.conf
[06:13] <xBeatrix> apt-ftparchive-extra.conf
[06:15] <LaserJock> and they have been properly modified?
[06:15] <xBeatrix> i created those files from:  http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/indices/ ):
[06:16] <xBeatrix> i think so.....:(:-[
[06:17] <xBeatrix> changed the paths and everything..
[06:35] <Gloubiboulga> Hello Universe :)
[06:36] <LaserJock> hi Gloubiboulga
[06:37] <Gloubiboulga> hi LaserJock
[06:38] <Gloubiboulga> minghua, congrats :)
[06:38] <minghua> Thanks Gloubiboulga
[06:38] <LaserJock> Gloubiboulga: how's texmaker in Debian going?
[06:39] <Gloubiboulga> LaserJock, not that good...
[06:39] <Gloubiboulga> I didn't get any answer on the mentors ML
[06:40] <Gloubiboulga> but I didn't spent enough time and energy on this for the moment
[06:40] <LaserJock> Gloubiboulga: sometimes it takes a few tries I think
[06:40] <Gloubiboulga> yep
[06:41] <Gloubiboulga> LaserJock, the package for the new release is also on REVU btw
[06:41] <Gloubiboulga> waiting for comments/advocates :)
[06:42] <minghua> Gloubiboulga: did you get an UVF exception for texmaker?
[06:42] <LaserJock> Gloubiboulga: you might try the debian-tetex-maint ML too
[06:42] <Gloubiboulga> minghua, yes
[06:43] <LaserJock> Gloubiboulga: really? I didn't see that. cool
[06:43] <minghua> hmm, good, I'll try this new texmaker package
[06:43] <Gloubiboulga> LaserJock, ok
[06:45] <LaserJock> Gloubiboulga: yeah, I might have to try it out ;-)
[06:48] <tritium> minghua: wow, I thought kile had replaced texmaker, but I guess it was ktexmaker it replaced.
[06:49] <LaserJock> minghua: what do you use in OSX for latex?
[06:49] <minghua> tritium: why to me?  I am a new texmaker user :-)
[06:50] <minghua> LaserJock: Err...  ssh to a linux box and use tetex there? :-)
[06:50] <minghua> does that count?
[06:50] <LaserJock> lol, makes sense
[06:50] <LaserJock> A postdoc in my lab uses TeXShop and likes it so I just wondered
[06:51] <tritium> TeXShop is nice on MacOS
[06:51] <minghua> I heard about several nice TeX software in OS X, but I never remember the name
[06:51] <LaserJock> well, I installed it but I haven't really tried it out
[06:52] <LaserJock> gotta get crackin' on my dissertation soon :|
[06:52] <freeflying> LaserJock: you can try xetex
[06:55] <LaserJock> freeflying: interesting, thanks for the tip
[08:49] <dholbach> good morning
[08:50] <minghua> morning dholbach
[08:51] <dholbach> hey minghua
[08:51] <siretart> morning
[08:52] <siretart> minghua: grats for motuness! :)
[08:52] <minghua> Thanks siretart
[08:53] <ajmitch> hi all
[08:53] <ajmitch> how are you?
[08:53] <ajmitch> hey StevenK
[08:54] <StevenK> Well, I'm more than happy for someone to give me a bug to fix, since I haven't been been doing much since FF.
[08:54] <ajmitch> StevenK: I've done approximately nothing :)
[08:54] <dholbach> ajmitch_: that's on Friday :)
[08:55] <ajmitch> dholbach: aw
[08:56] <dholbach> :-)
[08:56] <minghua> but I wonder StevenK would be interested in fixing those :-(
[08:57] <ajmitch> sure he would
[08:58] <ajmitch> StevenK: as a start: https://launchpad.net/people/motu/+assignedbugs
[08:58] <siretart> hey ajmitch, hi StevenK!
[08:58] <ajmitch> and there are a *lot* of universe bugs that noone has had time to assign to MOTU yet
[08:58] <ajmitch> hey siretart
[08:59] <minghua> StevenK: you are linda's upstream author, aren't you?
[08:59] <ajmitch> so even sorting through malone & assigning unassigned bugs could be good
[08:59] <ajmitch> though I think that's something that will be encouraged for people to do on the HUG day
[09:22] <siretart> ajmitch: have you seen the ifupdown integration work in wpasupplicant? are you happy with it?
[09:22] <ajmitch> I haven't tested it well yet sorry
[09:25] <siretart> n/m
[09:25] <minghua> siretart, ajmitch: you guys are REVU admins, right?  Can an uploader archive his own uploads?
[09:30] <ajmitch> welcome back, Hobbsee
[09:30] <ajmitch> minghua: I don't know
[09:30] <Hobbsee> thanks ajmitch
[09:30] <Hobbsee> darn nm-applet, running amok with kubuntu...
[09:30] <ajmitch> heh
[09:30] <desrt> amok or amuck?
[09:31] <minghua> ajmitch: can you archive uploads then?  if yes please help archive http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1546
[09:31] <ajmitch> desrt: they're the same
[09:31] <minghua> I've written the reasons in comments
[09:31] <desrt> er. what's the name of that kde application that has a name similar to 'amok'?
[09:32] <ajmitch> amarok
[09:32] <desrt> right.
[09:32] <ajmitch> minghua: done
[09:33] <minghua> ajmitch: thanks!
[09:34] <ajmitch> I've just been dist-upgrading the laptop
[09:35] <Hobbsee> desrt: either
[09:35] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: and it's having trouble with gnome too!  :P
[09:35] <Yagisan> I like the new menu. Looks much friendlier
[09:36] <ajmitch> Yagisan: which menu?
[09:36] <desrt> Hobbsee; i was under the mistaken impression that one of them was a music player
[09:36] <Yagisan> ajmitch: the install menu
[09:36] <ajmitch> ok
[09:36] <Hobbsee> desrt: ah...amarok is, yes.
[09:37] <Hobbsee> and now it's screwed my wireless :(
[09:37] <Yagisan> Hobbsee: you fubar'd an Ubuntu system ?
[09:37] <Hobbsee> Yagisan: sure
[09:37] <Hobbsee> well, not *that* fubar'd...
[09:37] <Yagisan> Hobbsee: that must have taken a lot of effort on you part!
[09:37] <Hobbsee> hehe
[09:38] <Hobbsee> it works, i'm on it now - i just cant get the wireless to work with it!
[09:38] <Yagisan> yes my rr key is stuck
[09:39] <Yagisan> note to self - new coffee is very sticky - try to avoid spilling more on the keyboard
[09:39] <Hobbsee> Yagisan: i frequently manage to screw up my system :P  - especially when i try to get things from svn, or install gnome/xfce
[09:40] <minghua> Yagisan: help testing scim-uim, will you? ;-)
[09:40] <Hobbsee> or, more, it doesnt run the way i want it to.
[09:41] <Yagisan> minghua: the whole point of getting flight 5 installed was to test scim. I'm looking at blowing away the breezy systems, rather then upgrading
[09:41] <minghua> Yagisan: oh great, thanks
[09:41] <Yagisan> Hobbsee: that is why I have 12 chroots. Much easier to fix
[09:41] <Hobbsee> hehe!
[09:42] <Hobbsee> sheesh!
[09:42] <minghua> Yagisan: by the way scim-m17n seems to be broken right now, so don't be surprised if you see that as well
[09:43] <Yagisan> Hobbsee: 3x 200GB in RAID 5. I need something other then 200GB of media files to fill it
[09:43] <Hobbsee> hehe good point
[09:43] <Yagisan> minghua: ok - I'll be aware of it
[09:43] <ajmitch> Yagisan: nice :)
[09:43] <ajmitch> Yagisan: I have 3x250GB SATA drives sitting beside me
[09:43] <ajmitch> ready to put into the computer
[09:43] <Yagisan> I have found 1 drawback though :(
[09:44] <ajmitch> oh?
[09:44] <Yagisan> the heat from the hard disks, is so mauch that my dvd-rw will not read or write any disks, unless the system has a cold start
[09:44] <ajmitch> ouch
[09:44] <ajmitch> though you are in sydney..
[09:44] <Yagisan> yet my cd-rw spit out cd's as fast as I can burn them
[09:45] <cyberix> slomo: Next to be released GNUnet 0.7.0c will have huge improvements to functionality of the network. When is the last date it can still make it for Dapper?
[09:51] <Yagisan> bbl - time to apt-get install food
[09:51] <Mithrandir> cyberix: upstream version freeze was a long time ago
[09:51] <cyberix> Which is sad. :-)
[09:53] <cyberix> How important do fixes need to be so they get into a stable release?
[09:54] <Mithrandir> critical or security.
[09:56] <cyberix> critical is defined as?
[09:56] <Mithrandir> "does not work at all"
[09:57] <cyberix> ok
[09:57] <cyberix> Bye bye by now. I'll go by my friend to buy some food.
[09:57] <cyberix> and thanks
[10:12] <highvoltage> have anyone here ever seen "Who's line is it anyway"?
[10:18] <G0SUB> hello!
[10:18] <G0SUB> are there any issues with X locking up?
[10:18] <G0SUB> it says Error in I830WaitLpRing()
[10:50] <ajmitch> StevenK: ping
[10:50] <StevenK> Pong.
[10:50] <ajmitch> want to look at https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/linda/+bug/30860 ?
[10:50] <Ubugtu> malone bug 30860 in linda "Fails with "Unable to find a suitable .mo file" error" [Major,Confirmed] 
[10:50] <ajmitch> since you know it best :)
[10:52] <ajmitch> a cunning plan?
[10:52] <StevenK> So cunning you could put a tail on it and call it a weasel.
[10:53] <ajmitch> excellent
[10:53] <StevenK> However, I'm not in the mood to hack on Linda.
[10:53] <ajmitch> ah
[10:54] <ajmitch> malone is so very broken at times
[10:55] <minghua> yeah, like count closed bugs in the "package summary" page...
[10:56] <ajmitch> or viewing unassigned bugs from /distros/ubuntu/+bugs
[10:56] <ajmitch> advanced search just seems to show everything, no matter what
[10:56] <minghua> yeah, I remember annoyed by that, too
[10:57] <ajmitch> it's a problem when people want you to sponsor debian uploads :)
[11:03] <minghua> you DDs can always ssh into a debian machine and use the sid chroot there, can't you?  ;-)
[11:05] <StevenK> If we wanted to.
[11:06] <ajmitch> if we really really had to
[11:06] <StevenK> minghua: You may need to bitch at the DSA to get Build-Depends installed.
[11:06] <StevenK> Er, s/You/We/
[11:06] <ajmitch> plus I can carry my chroot on my laptop & work offline
[11:07] <minghua> Ah, I see, so it's much harder than I thought
[11:08] <minghua> so if, say, you need a specific porting box to hunt down a arch dependent bug, you need to contact the admin to install build-depends first?
[11:08] <minghua> that kind of sucks
[11:08] <StevenK> They are usually pretty quick
[11:09] <ajmitch> StevenK: though it'd be annoying if the build-depends conflict with what other people need
[11:10] <StevenK> Conflicts: gcc
[11:14] <StevenK> ajmitch: The things I do for you. I'm even looking at Linda.
[11:15] <ajmitch> thanks! :)
[11:18] <Mez> argh
[11:18] <Mez> theres like - a well known open source cm
[11:18] <Mez> cms *
[11:18] <Mez> and I cant remember the name of it
[11:18] <Mez> anyone got a hint
[11:20] <freeflying> Mez: mambo or drupal
[11:20] <Mez> freeflying, ah
[11:20] <Mez> it was joomla I was thinking of :D
[11:20] <Mez> previously known as mambo
[11:40] <ajmitch> night all
[11:46] <Hobbsee> night ajmitch
[12:11] <Yagisan> I really should spell check before posting to mailing lists. That Bird Flu from Ubuntu post is funny
[12:29] <Hobbsee> Yagisan: link, if you have it on you?
[12:29] <sebest_> hello, do you think that a package for captive-ntfs could enter universe: http://www.jankratochvil.net/project/captive/ ?
[12:34] <Yagisan> Hobbsee: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2006-March/016478.html
[12:35] <Hobbsee> hehe
[12:56] <Yagisan> w00t - language-pack-ja can't be installed because of missing deps. :(
[12:57] <ogra> its in full rework currently ... there is a i10n sprint going on in london currently
[12:59] <Yagisan> I see. So I picked a bad time to do flight 5 testing
[12:59] <tseng> you can test flight 5 just fine without a dist-upgrade
[01:00] <ogra> yeah
[01:01] <Yagisan> I'm testing a "new install"
[02:15] <nagyv> I was redirected to you from ubuntu+1 with my question: dear dappers, I just would like to know about Dapper's lifespan. I have read somewhere that it will be the official release for 5 years? How this relates to the half-year plans?
[02:16] <G0SUB> nagyv 5 year lifespan means that it will be supported for 5 years
[02:17] <G0SUB> nagyv six month releases will continue with that
[02:17] <G0SUB> nagyv half year releases are supported for 1.5 years
[02:18] <nagyv> the 5 year support means that there will be added programs too? Like Firefox1.0->Firefox 1.5 was "missing" with Breezy.
[02:18] <G0SUB> nagyv no ... security fixes and critical bug fixes
[02:21] <nagyv> I am alway affraid of upgradeing my actual distro. :(
[02:21] <Spec> you must like debian
[02:22] <G0SUB> heh
[02:35] <nagyv> Spec: I am a user, not a developper. I like my os setup up as is, and I don't like to waste time to reconfigure things.
[02:36] <G0SUB> nagyv that's a fine idea
[02:37] <G0SUB> nagyv Dapper will be good for you ...
[03:05] <koke> hi all!
[03:06] <koke> I have a patch for a package but we are in freeze right?
[03:06] <koke> msttcorefonts is not installable since it tries to download from belnet sf mirror, which is not workinkg anymore
[03:09] <Mithrandir> I should probably fix that, then.
[03:10] <ogra> hmm, it worked last weekend when i installed my GFs new laptop
[03:19] <koke> Mithrandir: I've changed belnet to kent
[03:19] <koke> it's the new UK mirror
[03:32] <bddebian> Heya gang
[03:45] <Kyral> Morning MOTU
[03:46] <bddebian> Heya Kyral
[03:54] <dolson> this might be a stupid question, but is there something I can put in my sources to always use ubuntu_current_release+1 ?
[03:54] <dolson> kinda like debian "sid" or "unstable"
[03:54] <bddebian> dolson: Not that I could think of because Ubuntu always names the releases
[03:56] <Tm_T> also first month of current+1 is "exciting" ;)
[03:56] <dolson> wouldn't it be easy to add an alias like "devel" or "ubuntu" or something?
[03:56] <Tm_T> so imo not a good idea
[03:56] <dolson> well, it might not be a good idea for end users to use it
[03:56] <Tm_T> yeah
[03:56] <dolson> but developers have to use it
[03:56] <Tm_T> and devel should not be that lazy ;)
[03:56] <dolson> yes we should
[03:57] <Tm_T> haha
[04:48] <MrFaber> hi all
[04:48] <MrFaber> Who is the MOTU of the day? :)
[04:48] <bddebian> You are, congratulations. ;-)
[04:48] <MrFaber> Or the MOTU for loop-aes-source? :)
[04:49] <MrFaber> I am no MOTU, I am only a little bug reporter :)
[04:49] <MrFaber> Please fix the bug
[04:50] <dolson> what's the bug number?
[04:51] <MrFaber> bug 30230
[04:51] <Ubugtu> malone bug 30230 in loop-aes-source "loop-aes module can't be created in Dapper Drake" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/30230
[04:51] <MrFaber> where is the bot
[04:51] <MrFaber> ah :)
[04:51] <MrFaber> the debian sid version fix it but dapper has problems with other modules too
[04:52] <MrFaber> so it might be a problem of the m-a
[04:52] <MrFaber> module-assistant
[04:52] <MrFaber> same error while building nvidia and fglrx modules
[04:52] <MrFaber> I know that this isn't needed
[04:52] <MrFaber> but it should work
[04:55] <MrFaber> bbl
[05:01] <phanatic> hi people
[05:01] <phanatic> raphink: ping
[05:02] <raphink> phanatic: pong
[05:02] <phanatic> raphink: do you have time to help me a bit?
[05:02] <raphink> hmm I was about to do something :(
[05:02] <raphink> so depends how long it takes ;)
[05:02] <phanatic> just some quick questions :) can i /msg you?
[05:03] <raphink> sure
[07:08] <Tonio_> afternoon :)
[07:09] <phanatic> hi Tonio_
[08:14] <lucas> hello motus
[08:14] <LaserJock> hi lucas
[08:17] <phanatic> hi lucas
[08:22] <Kyral> hey guys
[08:23] <ajmitch> hello
[08:23] <bddebian> Heya Kyral, ajmitch
[08:25] <Kyral> gah, pup fell asleep on my lap lol
[08:33] <LaserJock> hi Kyral bddebian ajmitch and slomo_ :-)
[08:33] <bddebian> Heya LaserJock
[08:33] <slomo_> hi LaserJock
[08:37] <fabo> LaserJock: fix your link to ubuntu packaging guide on your blog :)
[08:38] <Kyral> LJ has a blog?
[08:38] <hub> www.livejournal.com
[08:38] <fabo> http://laserjock.wordpress.com/ ;)
[08:38] <hub> a sorry wrong LJ
[08:38] <hub> :-)
[08:38] <Kyral> LJ has a blog?
[08:39] <Kyral> whoops
[08:39] <Kyral> damn up arrow!
[08:39] <hub> time to add to to planet
[08:39] <LaserJock> fabo: ahh, crap. thanks for catching that
[08:40] <Kyral> I keep meaning to email Jeff about adding mine
[08:40] <Kyral> but 90% of it is me ranting about non Linux stuff lol
[08:40] <fabo> in fact just links of "Hello MOTU world!" are crap
[08:41] <LaserJock> Kyral: I think you can have a particular category linked to planet
[08:41] <Kyral> he Ubuntu category only has one entry lol
[08:42] <Kyral> azuredreams.us if you wanna look at it
[08:43] <LaserJock> fabo: ok, fixed now. thanks
[08:44] <fabo> np
[08:44] <dolson> hmm, it's almost 3pm. I need a nap
[08:44] <LaserJock> well, you guys weren't supposed to find my blog until it was massively cool ;-)
[08:44] <Kyral> lol
[08:44] <fabo> heh :)
[08:44] <Kyral> Actually I don't care about what people think of my blog
[08:44] <Kyral> I just use it to blow off steam :P
[08:45] <fabo> lurking on raphink's blog and find yours :)
[08:45] <LaserJock> fabo: ah, yes. raphink and I have been doing some blog development together ;-)
[08:45] <Kyral> Actually I should add RSS feeds from yours LJ :P
[08:45] <raphink> lol
[08:45] <raphink> blog dev LOL
[08:45] <Kyral> I wanna hack WP
[08:46] <raphink> nice :)
[08:46] <raphink> WP is very well done
[08:46] <LaserJock> raphink has done some cool things with his blog. I'm just getting going
[08:46] <Kyral> Wanna put a bunch of hose "Powered By" GFX on there
[08:46] <raphink> well seth's blog is very nice, too
[08:47] <Kyral> damn my busted "T" key
[08:47] <raphink> he's done a nice thing with WP too
[08:47] <Kyral> Like I can put Powered By Ubuntu, Debian, Apache, Xen...
[08:47] <raphink> Powered by the MOTU SuperCow Powers
[08:47] <Kyral> lol
[08:54] <Kyral> LJ I added you to my blogroll
[08:58] <LaserJock> Kyral: likewise ;-)
[09:10] <spacey> is there a chance the latest wine release 0.9.10 will be included in dapper?
[09:10] <spacey> it has improved esd support
[09:10] <spacey> which is nice for thinclients
[09:10] <ajmitch> there's a chance, perhaps
[09:11] <spacey> not sure yet if that improved stuff is enough for my problem
[09:11] <ajmitch> if you get a UVF exception report written up real quick & someone gets packages ready
[09:11] <spacey> 0.9.9 is in iirc
[09:11] <Kyral> is it a good idea to stash your GPG stuff on a USB Flash Drive?
[09:11] <ajmitch> & if it's considered important enough to get these fixes in
[09:12] <spacey> i want to test if it solves my esd problems first
[09:12] <spacey> i hope to be able to do that tomorrow
[09:12] <LaserJock> Kyral: it is good to stash your GPG stuff where ever you can on as many things as you can ;-)
[09:13] <Kyral> lol
[09:13] <Kyral> I was just looking at a 1 GB USB Flash Drive
[09:13] <ajmitch> LaserJock: only if it's stored securely
[09:13] <LaserJock> I have my keys, etc. on ~5 different computers
[09:13] <Kyral> encrypt the filesysttem, then put stuff like GPG and my KWallet
[09:13] <Kyral> on it
[09:14] <ajmitch> Kyral: where would you use this?
[09:14] <Kyral> personal use. So I can carry my GPG everywhere instead of relying on my desktop?
[09:15] <Kyral> Remember the UBZ when I had to borrow someone's laptop to ssh to my Desktop to print out my Key for signing?
[09:16] <ajmitch> excellent
[09:16] <ajmitch> so you put your gpg key on untrusted computers
[09:16] <Kyral> no
[09:17] <Kyral> I encrypt the FS, and only I know the decryption password
[09:17] <ajmitch> but to *use* the key on another computer, you need to decrypt on that computer
[09:18] <Kyral> okay I get it
[09:18] <Kyral> its better then having the FS unencrypted
[09:18] <ajmitch> certainly
[09:18] <ajmitch> but I only use it on systems I trust
[09:19] <Kyral> Yah I only plan to really use this when I need it. I mean I trust the school's computers. I trust my laptop (Which I tend o have on me away from my Desktop)
[09:19] <LaserJock> hmm, I don't have any encrypted partitions anywhere :(
[09:20] <ajmitch> why do you trust that the school's computers are secure?
[09:20] <Kyral> 1) Because most of he time I use the ones in the COSI and ITL and I'm on the Maintenance Teams for both
[09:21] <Kyral> 2) If not those, I carry a LiveCD to boot any computer I encounter :P
[09:21] <tseng> and a dozen other things
[09:21] <Kyral> You can never be 100% secure
[09:22] <Kyral> or else you wouldn't store the info outside your brain
[09:22] <tseng> you can be alot more secure if you dont decrpyt your private keys on very public systems
[09:23] <Kyral> Like I said, the possibility of that happening is low due to he fact my Laptop is almost always with me when I am away from my home system
[09:25] <tseng> are you a MOTU yet
[09:25] <LaserJock> ok, so it is good to encrypt you private keys as long as you are on a non-public system?
[09:25] <Kyral> me?
[09:25] <Kyral> No..I have been slacking during Dapper due to schoolwork and a new found interest in my server
[09:25] <tseng> LaserJock: the keys themselves are encrypted
[09:26] <tseng> LaserJock: encrypting the disk they are on is a bit overboard imo
[09:26] <Kyral> its not a HD...just a USB Flash Drive
[09:27] <LaserJock> tseng: ok, so what is your recommendation for gpg key security?
[09:27] <tseng> encrypt the key itself with a password, keep it on one pc
[09:27] <tseng> and on a cdr in a lockbox or similar
[09:27] <tseng> revoke key in the lockbox too
[09:28] <tseng> and dont put it on other pcs
[09:28] <tseng> the one its on shouldnt be open to inbound traffic from the internet
[09:28] <Kyral> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GPGKeyOnUSBDrive?highlight=%28GPG%29 <-- This looks like a nice howto
[09:28] <Kyral> Crap! I need to put a roast in the oven!
[09:28] <Kyral> brb!
[09:28] <minghua> I put my gpg key on my usb flash disk
[09:29] <tseng> thats not the end of the world until you put it in $randomlabpc and decrypt it into memory
[09:30] <tseng> there's still 256 bit encryption on your key if your usb disk is lost or stoleny
[09:30] <tseng> -y
[09:30] <LaserJock> arggh, now I'm getting confused. To sign things you need your private key?
[09:31] <tseng> yes, of course
[09:31] <LaserJock> ok, so I sign things from ~4 computers
[09:31] <LaserJock> tseng: but that is ok as long as they aren't public computers, right?
[09:32] <tseng> if you trust all 4 computers its fine
[09:32] <tseng> but it seems like the definition of 'trust' is laxer for some of us
[09:32] <tseng> this gets alot more important if your key is in the ubuntu keyring
[09:33] <LaserJock> but you basically shouldn't sign anything on a computer you don't trust
[09:33] <tseng> you got it.
[09:33] <LaserJock> ok, so they key is already encrypted, correct?
[09:34] <tseng> when you sign something, you type in a passphrase?
[09:34] <LaserJock> right
[09:34] <tseng> yep.
[09:34] <tseng> its protected by that
[09:34] <LaserJock> ok, so as long as I only use trusted computers and backup my key and revoke on a cdr or something then I should be OK?
[09:35] <tseng> yeah.
[09:35] <LaserJock> ok, I was just worried I needed more protection
[09:36] <LaserJock> although I should maybe try to trim down the number of computers I have my key on
[09:36] <tseng> if you asked Manoj Srivastava he might give you a slightly different answer
[09:36] <tseng> but thats mine :)
[09:37] <LaserJock> hmm, email I think would be the only problem for me
[09:38] <LaserJock> tseng: how do you deal with signed/encrypted emails?
[09:39] <LaserJock> tseng: sorry if I'm bugging you too much. Now that I'm a MOTU I want to be careful.
[09:40] <tseng> LaserJock: same as now is probably ok
[09:41] <LaserJock> k
[09:42] <LaserJock> I'm going to take my key off the department server though. It seems to get attacked pretty regularly.
[09:43] <LaserJock> I forgot I had it on there
[09:43] <Kyral> heh, mine is only on my deskop
[09:43] <Kyral> When I reinstall I'm gonna transfer to a flash card temp
[09:43] <Kyral> I can ust move he folder back into ~ when I reinstall right?
[09:43] <LaserJock> well, email has been difficult for me so I think I had it on there once so I could send a signed email
[09:45] <phanatic> Kyral: maybe you should have /home on a separate partition if you reinstall regurarly...
[09:45] <Kyral> phanatic, I do lol
[09:45] <Kyral> this is the first reinsall in about 5 months
[09:46] <phanatic> oh, then it's just for backup i suppose :)
[09:46] <Kyral> yah, everyhing else gets uploaded to my server for the ime
[09:47] <Kyral> Just that I'm gonna use a new partitioning scheme
[09:47] <LaserJock> hi crimsun
[09:47] <crimsun> 'lo LaserJock, Kyral, *
[09:47] <Kyral> hey crimsun
[09:48] <bddebian> Heya crimsun
[09:48] <crimsun> and of course bddebianIsGod
[09:49] <bddebian> Ack :'-(
[09:50] <LaserJock> a MIA God ;-)
[09:50] <bddebian> Doh :''(
[09:50] <bddebian> Heya netzmeister
[09:50] <LaserJock> lol, just teasing bddebian
[09:50] <bddebian> netzmeister: I got it.  I had to use noapic AND nolapic
[09:50] <LaserJock> nabend netzmeister :-)
[09:51] <crimsun> bddebian: ouch. Do we need to blacklist a motherboard?
[09:51] <bddebian> "blacklist a motherboard"?
[09:52] <netzmeister> hi bddebian, hi LaserJock
[09:52] <netzmeister> bddebian:  that sounds good
[09:52] <netzmeister> ;-)
[09:52] <redguy> hi netzmeister , hi bddebian , ni LaserJock
[09:52] <bddebian> Hello redguy
[09:52] <netzmeister> bddebian:  what's nolapic?
[09:52] <bddebian> No freakin' clue :-)
[09:52] <bddebian> No Logical APIC?
[09:52] <crimsun> bddebian: yeah, the kernel probably needs to know about that motherboard needing noapic and nolapic
[09:53] <netzmeister> ah okay
[10:05] <sebas_> Hi guys. Sorry to bug you. But i just found yet another debian maintainer who just didn't understand Universe.
[10:05] <bddebian> OK damnit, now I get:  ALERT! /dev/ida/c0d0p2 does not exist, dropping to a shell??? WTF :_(
[10:06] <crimsun> bddebian: try keybuk if he's in #ubuntu-boot
[10:06] <G0SUB> sebas_: ?
[10:07] <Kyral> I didn't understand Main and Contrib lol
[10:07] <Kyral> so it goes both ways :P
[10:07] <sebas_> I want to help him. So i searched some document to tell him what exactly Universe is and why it's there
[10:07] <LaserJock> sebas_: you expect a Debian maintainer to understand Universe?
[10:07] <Kyral> I barely understand Universe
[10:07] <Kyral> lol
[10:07] <sebas_> lol
[10:07] <Kyral> well, Multiverse more than Universe
[10:07] <G0SUB> Universe == Community supported
[10:08] <Kyral> yah I klnow
[10:08] <sebas_> I know.
[10:08] <Kyral> Multiverse == Non-Free
[10:08] <G0SUB> Multiverse == Community supported non-free
[10:08] <ogra> bddebian, you got it booting ? wow :)
[10:08] <G0SUB> that's all there is
[10:08] <bddebian> ogra: Well I got it installed, obviously not booting :-)
[10:08] <ogra> hey but you got the kernel to boot already :)
[10:08] <sebas_> He complaint about the lack of security support
[10:09] <ogra> bddebian, is that sata ?
[10:09] <LaserJock> sebas_: makes sense
[10:09] <bddebian> ogra: Hardware RAID5 SCSI
[10:09] <Kyral> wha is that Mach?
[10:09] <LaserJock> sebas_: does he get it now?
[10:10] <sebas_> LaserJock: not really. The question is, why is it even there.
[10:10] <ogra> bddebian, sure the controller is supported
[10:10] <LaserJock> sebas_: why is what even there?
[10:10] <bddebian> It got picked up on install..?
[10:11] <sebas_> LaserJock: Ubuntu's Universe
[10:11] <raphink> who is running mach ?
[10:11] <Kyral> lol
[10:11] <ogra> bddebian, then its udev bug ....
[10:11] <Kyral> I want to try the HURD...but according to bddebian network support blows
[10:11] <raphink> Kyral: ah?
[10:12] <bddebian> Kyral: I didn't say that, I said we don't have PCMCIA / wireless support officially yet
[10:12] <Kyral> bddebian, so my onboard Ethernet port would work?
[10:12] <crimsun> sebas_: universe exists to contain Debian's main, but Ubuntu's main is a much smaller subset of supported packages
[10:12] <bddebian> Kyral: In many cases
[10:12] <LaserJock> sebas_: I look at it this way. Universe allows for Ubuntu to focus more on Main
[10:13] <bddebian> raphink: We still don't have ppp :-(  Though I recently was able to build um-ppp
[10:13] <crimsun> sebas_: the core devs simply lack the resources to support universe in addition to main
[10:13] <Kyral> hmm
[10:13] <raphink> bddebian: it's ok I've got dhcp now ;)
[10:13] <ajmitch> bddebian: it's only been in that state for several years now
[10:13] <raphink> bddebian: how is the port to L4 going?
[10:13] <ajmitch> raphink: ha
[10:13] <bddebian> ajmitch: Along with lots of other things :-)
[10:13] <raphink> hehe
[10:13] <bddebian> raphink: It's not.  Those folks are looking at Coyotos now
[10:14] <raphink> lol
[10:14] <Kyral> bddebian, I may try dual booting HURD and Dapper when I reinstall my Desktop
[10:14] <sebas_> crimsun: And to supply alternative programs to the users if needed. Because main allready tries to fulfill the most needed functionality.
[10:14] <raphink> bddebian: when is there to be a real work towards a real goal ?
[10:14] <crimsun> sebas_: sure, that's another way of considering it
[10:14] <bddebian> raphink: I suppose that depends on who you ask :-(
[10:14] <Kyral> Wait, can QEmu run the HURD?
[10:14] <raphink> bddebian: well I'm interested in the hurd really
[10:15] <bddebian> Kyral: Yes
[10:15] <Kyral> I'm just bored and thought "why the hell not"
[10:15] <raphink> bddebian: but then you see, it _almost_ worked on mach, then they switched to L4, and after a few month it's not L4 anymore...
[10:15] <raphink> bddebian: assuming a technical choice and going forward might help going somewhere
[10:15] <raphink> that's how I see it at least ;)
[10:15] <bddebian> raphink: There is some renewed interest in Mach recently
[10:15] <Kyral> Doesn't Solaris run on Mach?
[10:15] <bddebian> And the folks looking at Coyotos
[10:15] <raphink> I thought Mach was horribly slow for the task
[10:16] <bddebian> It needs fixed yes
[10:16] <raphink> Kyral: MacOS too ;)
[10:16] <Kyral> well hell lol
[10:16] <raphink> runs on a mix of BSD on top of GNU Mach
[10:16] <raphink> iirc
[10:16] <Kyral> hmm
[10:16] <bddebian> Yes
[10:16] <sebas_> crimsun: I think that's a big difference to Debian which just tries to supply all possible apps/librarys and let the (overwhelmed) user decide what he wants.
[10:16] <Kyral> Dual Boot Dapper and Nexenta? :P
[10:16] <bddebian> Well Darwin does anyway
[10:16] <raphink> bddebian: yes
[10:17] <bddebian> ogra: What type of udev issue?
[10:17] <raphink> bddebian: from what I remember K6 on top of Mach was horribly slow
[10:17] <raphink> it would take a few seconds to run basic commands
[10:17] <raphink> on a 2GHz comp
[10:18] <raphink> haven't tested again since
[10:18] <bddebian> raphink: K9/K10 are significantly better both in performance and stability
[10:18] <raphink> what runs on it?
[10:18] <bddebian> But we do still have slowness due to some Mach limitations
[10:18] <raphink> is gnome installable without spending a few days on it?
[10:18] <ajmitch> bddebian: unless you have modern hardware, with things like irq sharing? :)
[10:18] <Kyral> K7? We aren't talking Athlon Cores now are we?
[10:18] <ajmitch> Kyral: no
[10:18] <ogra> bddebian, udev does pattern matching on device IDs, likely yours just isnt covered ...
[10:18] <raphink> bddebian: well MacOS is fast enough and based on Mach since years... and Darwin is open-source so you could see how it's implemented
[10:19] <ogra> bddebian, get Keybuk, he'll be intrested to fix that
[10:19] <ajmitch> raphink: completely different architecture
[10:19] <bddebian> raphink: Not yet because I'm fighting with qt-x11 and apparently a libonobui issue in debian
[10:19] <raphink> ok
[10:19] <ajmitch> raphink: and besides, it's not ubuntu ;)
[10:19] <raphink> ajmitch : but why blame the microkernel?
[10:19] <bddebian> raphink: SOme have or are looking at osfmach
[10:19] <Riddell> bddebian: what's up with qt?
[10:19] <raphink> ajmitch: might be gnubuntu some time soon (or not)
[10:19] <ajmitch> Riddell: hurd stuff, nothing to worry about
[10:19] <raphink> Riddell: do you track "qt" in channels?
[10:20] <bddebian> Riddell: I need a good approach to get rid of PATH_MAX usage.
[10:20] <Riddell> raphink: I just track all channels
[10:20] <raphink> Riddell: for every word ? ;)
[10:20] <Riddell> yep
[10:20] <Riddell> can't escape me
[10:20] <raphink> hehe
[10:20] <raphink> :)
[10:20] <ajmitch> bddebian: we need you handling ubuntu bugs, not hurd bugs
[10:20] <Kyral> Ubuntu/HURD :P
[10:20] <raphink> Kyral: Gnubuntu
[10:20] <bddebian> ajmitch: You don't need me at all :-)
[10:20] <Kyral> *DUCKS!*
[10:20] <bddebian> No, UbuntGNU
[10:21] <raphink> bddebian: that's unpronounceable...
[10:21] <ajmitch> we need everyone we can get to work on universe bugs
[10:21] <Kyral> Well, the HURD package is already in Ubuntu-Repos....
[10:21] <raphink> Kyral: where?
[10:21] <bddebian> Kyral: Is it really?
[10:22] <Kyral> I think so
[10:22] <Kyral> lemme check
[10:22] <Kyral> yah, crosshurd is in there
[10:22] <Kyral> its in Universe
[10:22] <raphink> crosshurd is to install a debian system
[10:22] <raphink> not an ubuntu one
[10:22] <raphink> iirc
[10:23] <ogra> why does it use black music ?
[10:23] <Kyral> Yah but there isn't much difference between Ubuntu and Debian IMO
[10:23] <ogra> oh, its magic ...
[10:23] <raphink> lol
[10:24] <raphink> Kyral: well then you just talk about Debian GNU/Hurd
[10:24] <Kyral> lol
[10:24] <raphink> which is the only Hurd OS anyway, since the Gentoo GNU/Hurd project stopped iirc
[10:24] <Kyral> I should just make an Ubuntu Qemu image and try it
[10:27] <LaserJock> I'm trying Ubuntu in a Qemu image in OSX today :-)
[10:27] <Mr_Spiff> is qemu good?
[10:27] <Mr_Spiff> better than vmware?
[10:28] <redguy> Mr_Spiff: define "better"
[10:28] <redguy> Mr_Spiff: its better, because it has a free license
[10:29] <bddebian> Actually some folks have recently revived the Gentoo stuff I think too
[10:29] <Mr_Spiff> redguy, vmware server is *free
[10:29] <LaserJock> Mr_Spiff: qemu is also better for OSX since there isn't a vmware-player download for Mac
[10:30] <Mr_Spiff> LaserJock, cool
[10:30] <Mr_Spiff> is qemu easy?
[10:30] <bddebian> Riddell: No comment? :-)
[10:30] <redguy> Mr_Spiff: free as in no $$, or free as "you can tamper with the source code" ?
[10:31] <bddebian> Kyral: I'm looking for the Hurd on Qemu wiki that Andar just wrote
[10:31] <Riddell> bddebian: no ideas some immediately to mind
[10:31] <LaserJock> Mr_Spiff: http://www.kberg.ch/q/ has a wonderful Qemu frontend for OSX
[10:32] <Mr_Spiff> redguy, yeah free beer free
[10:32] <bddebian> Kyral: Here ya go:  http://hurd.gnufans.org/bin/view/Distrib/HurdOnQEMU
[10:32] <redguy> Mr_Spiff: see? that's why it's worse :-)
[10:33] <bddebian> Riddell: Well I have a few patches but I don't know if they are acceptable upstream (or even correct for that matter)
[10:33] <Riddell> bddebian: qt upstream doesn't usually accept patches
[10:34] <Riddell> they have to re-write them if they do
[10:34] <bddebian> Riddell: Well I mean even for Debian
[11:01] <Tonio_> siretart: ping ?
[11:02] <siretart> Tonio_: pong
[11:02] <Tonio_> siretart: hi ;)
[11:02] <Tonio_> siretart: I noticed you upload a few month ago wlassistant, bug it never got in dapper
[11:03] <Tonio_> siretart: I suspect elmo rejected it because of it's name, but if you have logs, It'd be nice ;)
[11:03] <Tonio_> siretart: latest version if mostly debugged, and actually the only wireless working tool on kubuntu, so I'd like to make the necessary stuff to get it in
[11:04] <siretart> uff, did you get a reject mail?
[11:04] <siretart> are you sure it isn't still in NEW?
[11:04] <Tonio_> siretart: nope, I wasn't in kathie's queue at that moment...
[11:05] <siretart> err, we are running launchpad now for a while. katie/dak was disabled some time ago
[11:05] <Tonio_> siretart: it was in November 12, so I assume it is not still in the queue
[11:05] <Tonio_> :)
[11:05] <ajmitch> hey siretart
[11:05] <siretart> huhu ajmitch
[11:06] <Tonio_> siretart: if you don't have mail logs, I will ask elmo, but in case you have... ^^
[11:07] <siretart> Tonio_: better ask Kamion, he seems to do NEW processing
[11:07] <Tonio_> siretart: I will thanks ;)
[11:31] <azha> #bashfr chan ou on parle pas d'info, chan entre ami, venez on s'amuse bien
[11:31] <azha> #bashfr chan ou on parle pas d'info, chan entre ami, venez on s'amuse bien
[11:49] <Spec> I have a question concerning python, eggs, and packaging...
[11:50] <Spec> what's the proper way to package a python program that is an egg? Just throw the egg in /usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages, or unzip the egg?
[11:50] <Spec> s/program/module
[12:00] <azeem> what's an egg?
[12:01] <LaserJock> azeem: something dapper drakes lay that destroys and Vista install that might be in the area ;-)
[12:01] <azeem> ah :)
[12:02] <LaserJock> actually it seems to be some sort of python packaging that I don't really know anything about.