[04:39] <mako> Kamion, elmo, sabdfl, etc: sorry.. i was in class giving a presentation.. wednesdays are bad.. i just got out now
[04:39] <mako> but Kamion channeled me correctly.. i'm in favor
[10:39] <sabdfl> thanks mako
[02:09] <sivang> okay, one hour to go out for lunch and come back for status meeting
[02:11] <natroll> what?
[02:54] <pitti> Hai
[02:54] <JaneW> ok everyone here?
[02:55] <JaneW> I have appologies from jbailey
[02:55] <Kamion> here
[02:55] <dholbach> here
[02:55] <JaneW> and fabbione said he may be late
[02:55] <Riddell> I'm here
[02:55] <JaneW> hi Riddell - I see you :)
[02:55] <Mithrandir> iz here
[02:55] <Riddell> yay :)
[02:56] <doko> hi
[02:56] <JaneW> ping: BenC, heno, infinty, iwj, Kinnison , mdz, mvo, ogra, seb128, sivang
[02:56] <seb128> JaneW: pong
[02:56] <infinity> pong
[02:57] <BenC> JaneW: pong
[02:57] <JaneW> hi BenC :)
[02:57] <ogra> meep
[02:57] <dholbach> the UK guys might be lunching
[02:57] <pitti> iwj's on vac, isn't he?
[02:57] <dholbach> (UK ... sprint ... guys)
[02:57] <Kamion> iwj is on holiday, yeah
[02:57] <JaneW> pitti: yes you are right
[02:58] <JaneW> ok we are waiting for: heno (goal implemented),  Kinnison (goal implemented), mdz (at sprint), mvo(at sprint),  sivang
[02:59] <JaneW> with 2 mins to go
[02:59] <infinity> 1 min, by my clock.
[02:59] <infinity> So, do we get to start with "I" this week? :)
[02:59] <JaneW> infinity: sure :)
[02:59] <JaneW> hello heno
[02:59] <infinity> Or, we could go based on first names...
[02:59] <mvo> JaneW: here (sprinting)
[02:59] <JaneW> infinity: you are ahead of time there :P
[02:59] <JaneW> hi mvo
[03:00] <JaneW> mvo: mdz with you?
[03:00] <heno> Hi JaneW
[03:00] <kbrooks> look at your clock.its 9:00
[03:00] <JaneW> infinity: you a middle child?
[03:00] <daf> JaneW: mdz is not here
[03:00] <mvo> JaneW: no, he is at a different sprint
[03:00] <JaneW> hrm
[03:00] <infinity> JaneW: Youngest.
[03:01] <JaneW> shall we wait for mdz for a few mins?
[03:01] <JaneW> or proceed.
[03:01] <dholbach> somebody could try to call him
[03:01] <Kamion> I'll phone him
[03:01] <BenC> considering we were going to change the entire day of the meeting for mdz, maybe we wait :)
[03:01] <JaneW> we will need to tell him it's important to be punctual :P
[03:01] <Mithrandir> I think we should just start.  We have an hour, this meeting is supposed to start on time.
[03:02] <infinity> Mithrandir: No, it's only meant to END on time. :)
[03:02] <infinity> So, if we start 30 mins late, it's only 30 mins long.
[03:02] <Mithrandir> infinity: I have stuff to do today and would prefer not being stuck waiting for somebody to show up.
[03:02] <BenC> but then again, I just got on the clock, and I'm sure others are waiting to go to bed
[03:02] <Kamion> mdz will be here in a moment
[03:02] <JaneW> Kamion: thanks
[03:02] <mdz> good morning
[03:02] <JaneW> hi mdz
[03:03] <mdz> Kamion: thanks for the call; lunch ran late
[03:03] <Kamion> no problem
[03:03] <BenC> someone has to :)
[03:03] <JaneW> *little wag*
[03:03] <mdz> BenC: ready?
[03:03] <BenC> Dapper Kernel Status: Bugs have mostly been caught up with. Major updates since last week:
[03:03] <BenC> - SPARC Niagara support courtesy of DaveM, and much effort from Fabbione.
[03:03] <BenC> - IPW2200 1.1.1 synced. This should fix a lot of firmware error bugs (will be in -18.28)
[03:03] <BenC> - Lots of sound fixes merged from alsa, coutesy of Daniel T. Chen (crimsun)
[03:03] <BenC> - cPad driver update (now known as synaptics-usb). Most people were seeing a crash from this driver.
[03:03] <BenC> Major bugs still needing fixes:
[03:03] <JaneW> infinity really wants to go first
[03:03] <BenC> - ACPI-PnP: Loss of functionality. Matthew Garrett (mjg59) is looking into isolating the patch from ACPI-git to fix this problem.
[03:03] <BenC> - PPC Sound: Tumbler is still in regression since my fixes to get Toonie working. I think I am just going to revert the Tumbler portions of this for dapper. Working with BenH to get the over-all patch fixed for Tumbler as well.
[03:04] <BenC> - Odd crash with some x86 machines running -686 kernel. Seems SMP related. Other distros are experiencing this. Working with lkml folks to resolve it.
[03:04] <BenC> - Crash with amd64 systems running x86 kernels.
[03:04] <mdz> JaneW: ok, he's next
[03:04] <BenC> - powernow-k8 seems to not be working for people with x86 kernels. Some people even report it not working with amd64 kernels. This is working for me with exact same CPU as at least one other person reported having the problem on. Investigating.
[03:04] <infinity> JaneW: No, no, it's okay.  I was being sarcastic. :)
[03:04] <BenC> - Various regressions on rare peripherals. Working on these as I can.
[03:04] <mdz> BenC: we seem to have a collection of interesting laptop-related bugs at the moment
[03:04] <mdz> BenC: e.g., mvo's laptop hibernating when he disconnects the power
[03:04] <infinity> BenC: Does that ipw2200 merge include an ipw2100 merge as well?
[03:05] <BenC> mdz: yeah, those are on the list too
[03:05] <infinity> BenC: And the 3945 stuff? (so I can do the LRM side of that)
[03:05] <BenC> infinity: it will, but 2200 was more important
[03:05] <pitti> BenC: I deem broken capabilities as not too unimportant, too
[03:05] <mvo> BenC: if I can help you debugging it let me know
[03:05] <BenC> mvo: I'll email to schedule some time, if that's ok
[03:05] <Keybuk> BenC: the PNP stuff is (unsurprisingly) causing problem for everyone
[03:06] <mvo> BenC: sure, that's fine. best is next week when I'm back from the sprint
[03:06] <Keybuk> personally I blame mjg59, as his Mactel is the only i386 around *without* PNP :p
[03:06] <BenC> infinity: 3945 needs a tester so we don't dump stuff in blind like I did with rtl81xx junk
[03:06] <infinity> BenC: Yeah, I think we're waiting on someone (anyone) to actually get one in the mail.
[03:06] <BenC> Keybuk: yeah, me too :)
[03:06] <infinity> BenC: I'd love to see a T60 before release.
[03:06] <BenC> I have PCIE, but not mini-PCIE
[03:06] <mdz> BenC: did you get much feedback from the most recent Flight?
[03:06] <kbrooks> may I ask a question?
[03:07] <BenC> and I can't find a adapter board
[03:07] <pitti> kbrooks: you just did :)
[03:07] <BenC> mdz: it seems we are getting a lot more testing now
[03:07] <mdz> BenC: do we have a handle on where we stand as far as regressions?
[03:07] <kbrooks> so I'm allowed. OK.
[03:07] <BenC> mdz: I think so
[03:07] <Keybuk> I think it'd be worth blessing the next Flight (or even 5) with a "ready for large-scale testing" label
[03:07] <Kamion> kbrooks: if it's on-topic for this team meeting; otherwise please use a different channel
[03:07] <infinity> BenC: That's to be expected as we near release.  Sadly, most regressions get found within a month or less of release, which will put you in hardcore crunch mode for a while.
[03:08] <mdz> Keybuk: indeed, and explicitly random hardware testing
[03:08] <mdz> right, we need to move on
[03:08] <mdz> BenC: thanks
[03:08] <BenC> I agree, things are ramping up, and odd bugs are being found
[03:08] <mdz> dholbach: ?
[03:08] <BenC> now it's in time, but later it will be too late
[03:08] <dholbach> mdz: not infinity? :)
[03:08] <kbrooks> hibernation: i think we should show a progress bar for it.
[03:08] <dholbach> example-content: another version uploaded, flat directory structure
[03:08] <dholbach> icon-mission: prioritisation ongoing, community efforts are planned, will setup buildsystem today
[03:08] <dholbach> this week (done): GNOME 2.14.0, started triaging HUGE bug backlog
[03:08] <dholbach> this week (todo): icon-mission, bug triage, HUG DAY on Friday!
[03:08] <dholbach> next week: (bug triage)++
[03:08] <mdz> dholbach: he said he wasn't serious
[03:08] <dholbach> right
[03:08] <kbrooks> thatis all. 
[03:08] <infinity> Sarcasm is lost on this group.
[03:09] <BenC> kbrooks: off-topic... -devel mailing list would be best
[03:09] <mdz> dholbach: example-content is looking good
[03:09] <mdz> dholbach: GNOME 2.14.0 seems a bit rough around the edges
[03:09] <mdz> what's your assessment?
[03:09] <kbrooks> dholbach, icion-mission: i'm unfimilar with it. what is it, anyway? and i might participate in the bug triaging
[03:09] <dholbach> mdz:  to be honest I don't have an overview yet... i have 1705 unread desktop bugs mails
[03:10] <doko> mdz: can I make example-content make depend on openoffice.org? (pictures show up in the OOo gallery ...)
[03:10] <Keybuk> infinity: it's not lost, it just fades into the general background of sarcasm
[03:10] <dholbach> kbrooks: I don't think we have the time to elaborate here, let's chat after the meeting
[03:10] <kbrooks> dholbach, all right.
[03:10] <dholbach> kbrooks: but I'm happy if you join the bug efforts :)
[03:10] <mdz> doko: can you conditionalize it so that they're added to the gallery if ooo is installed, otherwise do nothing?
[03:10] <kbrooks> dholbach, where? :)
[03:11] <doko> mdz: I'll have a look, or mabe a new binary package
[03:11] <mdz> doko: ok
[03:11] <mdz> dholbach: do you need help with the bug day?
[03:11] <mdz> now would be the time to round it up, if so
[03:11] <dholbach> mdz: I'd be happy if somebody joined seb and me
[03:12] <dholbach> you can add yourself and your tasks to: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay 
[03:12] <doko> dholbach: can do that for 1/2 day
[03:12] <infinity> dholbach: I'd be happy to pop in and dump FTBFS bugs on everyone as I go through build logs tomorrow, but I can't promise much help with mentoring/sponsorship type stuff.
[03:12] <dholbach> nice, thanks
[03:12] <pitti> dholbach: since now I'm in real bug fixing mood, I'll join
[03:12] <mdz> Kinnison: would you do a bug day sortie as well?
[03:12] <dholbach> i plan to do them every 2nd week from now on
[03:13] <JaneW> mdz: Kinnison isn't here yet, we are pinging him
[03:13] <mdz> are we missing anyone else?
[03:13] <JaneW> everyone else is accounted for - except sivang
[03:13] <doko> iwj
[03:13] <JaneW> iwj is on leave
[03:13] <dholbach> but he's on vacation
[03:13] <seb128> doko: he's on VAC
[03:13] <mdz> right
[03:13] <JaneW> fabbione is prepping for funeral
[03:13] <mdz> thanks dholbach
[03:13] <mdz> doko: ?
[03:13] <JaneW> and jbailey said he isn;t needed
[03:14] <kbrooks> funerals suck... :) </random>
[03:14] <doko> - toolchain-roadmap: final versions in the archives for all architectures (v8 on sparc), java problems on hppa (not that critical for main), lamont not yet happy, infinity starts feeling better.
[03:14] <doko> - toolchain-roadmap-ng: blocked
[03:14] <doko> - openoffice.org: results from the OOo sprint last weekend in the archive (closed about 120 reports for things fixed in 2.0.2, fixed another 15 at the weekend or later), more complete report today to ubuntu-devel.
[03:14] <doko> - other: uploads and bug fixed on OOo related packages, OOo & l10n and OOo & font discussions
[03:14] <mdz> JaneW: correct
[03:14] <mdz> doko: how was the sprint?
[03:14] <doko> too much pizza
[03:14] <mdz> (overall, I'll wait for your report)
[03:14] <mdz> productive?
[03:14] <doko> but anyway, we finished many things, yes!
[03:15] <infinity> doko: You forget to mention the ia32-libs-dev purge I see in my INBOX right now.
[03:15] <Kamion> kbrooks: hibernation> this isn't the place for random bug reports or wishlist ideas, I'm afraid; please take those elsewhere. This is a status meeting to establish what distro team hackers have done this week and what they're planning to do next week.
[03:15] <mdz> doko: hopefully it will make it easier to continue collaboration online as well
[03:15] <doko> infinity: ahh yes
[03:15] <doko> mdz: I think so, it was a good start.
[03:15] <mdz> doko: thanks
[03:15] <mdz> heno: anything to report?
[03:16] <heno> * example-content: implemented. Some updates and tweaks to individual files will continue to be made. mdzzzz.ogg is no longer the default video :)
[03:16] <infinity> Shame.
[03:16] <mdz> heno: something a bit longer?
[03:16] <pitti> mdzzzzzzzz ;)
[03:16] <dholbach> yes a recorded desktop session
[03:17] <mdz> oh, interesting
[03:17] <mdz> will check it out after the upgrade
[03:17] <Mithrandir> heno: it's a fresh video from the latest sprint instead?
[03:17] <heno> a video of the dsktop in action, but it needs to be redone with the new look
[03:17] <nhaines> What a shame.  :)
[03:17] <mdz> thanks heno
[03:17] <mdz> infinity: next
[03:17] <infinity> last week buildd: Finish with sparc and ia64 catching up, lit up hppa buildds and began the long, hard road to hppa catching up again.  Went through every failed build log I could find in the last two weeks and did judicious fixes/give-backs to try to sort what I could.
[03:17] <infinity> last week distro: Helped Colin and Tollef release Flight-5, upated LRM for new fglrx and AVM Fritz, random bugfixes in packages that were either FTBFS or causing others to fail.
[03:17] <infinity> next week buildd: Taking another hack day or two (already approved by mdz) to work with cprov on soyuz buildd shortcomings, trying to finish the hppa backlog, and going further back in time with failed build logs, fixing or bugfiling where appropriate.
[03:17] <infinity> next week distro: Bug triaging and fixing in just about everything I pseudo-maintain, focussing first on crucial bugs in initramfs-tools.  Testing and uploading pkgbinarymangler to replace pkgstriptranslations and do Maintainer field mangling.
[03:18] <mdz> infinity: what sort of issues are afoot with initramfs-tools?
[03:18] <infinity> The worst being that if /tmp or /boot run out of space, it just blindly carries on and you end up with an unbootable system. :)
[03:18] <infinity> (Yes, that bug's been there isnce breezy)
[03:18] <infinity> since, too.
[03:18] <mdz> sweet
[03:18] <infinity> doko tried to hurt me earlier today for that one, so it's time I fixed it.
[03:19] <infinity> There are other poorly (or non) handled failure cases that are slightly less severe, I'll go through a bunch.
[03:19] <doko> heh, why do have _I_ find these things as the first person? :-/
[03:19] <mdz> doko: because you fill your disks with openoffice builds?
[03:19] <infinity> doko: You weren't the first, just the scariest / most German.
[03:19] <mdz> thanks, infinity
[03:19] <ogra> infinity, did bddebian file a bug for you? seems cpqarray doesnt end up in the initramfs recently
[03:20] <doko> mdz: not my /boot partiton ;p
[03:20] <mdz> we have no iwj?
[03:20] <mvo> on vac
[03:20] <seb128> mdz: he's on VAC this weel
[03:20] <seb128> week
[03:20] <mdz> right, of course
[03:20] <infinity> ogra: He caught me on IRC.  It's mentally filed.
[03:20] <ogra> oki
[03:20] <mdz> Kamion: next
[03:20] <Kamion> ue-gnome-ui: Identification page totally reworked; several other small UI changes.
[03:20] <Kamion> ue-partitioning-tool: Partitioning committal moved to the main installation progress bar. Some gparted bugs are currently blocking me from testing part of this properly, though.
[03:20] <Kamion> ubuntu-express: Internationalisation support on its way, now that I've implemented the escape capability in debconf.
[03:20] <Kamion> misc: Little spec progress this week, since I had about half the week eaten by the installer security vulnerability in Breezy. We're going to release updated Breezy CD images at some point, although they won't make the last shipit batch.
[03:20] <Kamion> next-week: Integrate Fabio's disk selector (really). Finish internationalisation. Deal with various partitioning bugs that have been reported. Start on updated Breezy CD images.
[03:21] <mdz> Kamion: is the wiki todo up to date?
[03:21] <Kamion> yes
[03:22] <mdz> it's still a bit distressingly long
[03:23] <JaneW> Kamion: can you do %'s again?
[03:23] <mdz> Kamion: of those items, the partman commit (for usability) and localisation (for the benefit of translators) look to be priorities
[03:23] <Kamion> I could do with help on UI bits, which account for a lot of the length; hope Kinnison can do that when he's finished launchpadding
[03:23] <mdz> Kamion: ok, will see who I can get for you
[03:24] <Kamion> mdz: the partman commit is IMHO not a huge deal now that most of it's been moved to the final progress bar
[03:24] <Keybuk> UI is possibly something I can help with
[03:24] <JaneW> ok fabbione sent the following
[03:24] <mdz> Kamion: hmm, ok, haven't done an install since last week
[03:24] <mdz> Kamion: thanks
[03:24] <Kamion> it's only starting up partman a couple more times, is all
[03:24] <JaneW> fabbione * server-candy: Missing/buggy: apache2 for "central snakeoil SSL setup" and kernel -server as default from CD install. Added rc.local support on mdz/sabdfl request.
[03:24] <JaneW> fabbione * ubuntu-cluster: Waiting ocfs2-tools release for new userland to sync with the kernel that will allow (finally) full desync later.
[03:24] <JaneW> fabbione * last week: Finished with partman-auto core modifications to present disk-selector and later how to trash a disk. Patch is in Kamion hands for string love. Bug fixing. Started looking into some X stuff. No don't start asking me when bug foo will be fixed because I have no idea.
[03:24] <JaneW> fabbione * next week: hw upgrade at the office, bug fixing and more bug fixing.
[03:24] <Kamion> mdz: that only went in about twenty minutes ago anyway
[03:24] <heno> does UI require coding or will testing and advice help?
[03:24] <mdz> Keybuk: please dive in then; coordinate with Kamion
[03:24] <Kamion> heno: code
[03:24] <heno> oki :)
[03:25] <JaneW> and iwj asked me to reminder everyone of his request for LP feedback
[03:25] <JaneW>  (as sent to warthogs)
[03:25] <Kamion> I mean, testing and advice won't hurt, but we do have rather a lot of that piled up already and I think it might help to clear this lot of feedback away first before getting another pile
[03:25] <JaneW> s/reminder/remind/
[03:25] <heno> yep, np
[03:25] <mdz> yes, please do ensure that your most critical launchpad needs/feedback are sent to iwj
[03:25] <mdz> Keybuk: next?
[03:26] <Kamion> er, fabbione and I obviously miscommunicated, I didn't realise he was expecting me to finish off the partman-auto disk selector patch
[03:26] <Keybuk> udev: some minor bugs fixed, including one that affected Installer.
[03:26] <Keybuk> netbase: still a strange bug where for no apparent reason, wifi cards cause "Configuring network interfaces" to stop on boot
[03:26] <Keybuk> network-manager: have been investigating 0.6 and would like to recommend that we look at shipping that in dapper, along with wpa_supplicant -- with the extended release cycle it would still get more testing than I was expecting 0.5 to get.  It also fixes a lot of damned irritating problems.
[03:26] <Keybuk> n-m on livecd: generally response has been good, except for casper seeding /etc/network/interfaces badly -- haven't had a response from Tollef yet about that.
[03:26] <Kamion> I thought I had already told him my views and that he would finish it off
[03:26] <Keybuk> next week: going to grep every binary for /var/run, /etc/hotplug, etc. and fix them all.
[03:26] <Keybuk> other: I'd like to help out with ftp archive/cd building/etc. do we need more people for this?
[03:26] <mdz> Kamion: ok, please follow up via email
[03:26] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: huh?  I haven't seen anything about that from you?
[03:26] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: are you /dev/null'ing your Malone mail?
[03:26] <Keybuk> or is Malone just sulking
[03:26] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: no, not ttbomk
[03:26] <Kamion> Keybuk: not much with CD building now that Mithrandir and infinity are up to speed on it, but I'm the only active archive admin at present
[03:26] <pitti> Keybuk: _ion is already working on 0.6 packages and ported much of our changes, are you aware of that?
[03:27] <Keybuk> pitti: yup, I'm going to merge his work with mine
[03:27] <Kamion> which chews up more of my time than I would like
[03:27] <mdz> Keybuk: when you have 0.6 in hand, let's revisit whether to add it to desktop
[03:27] <Keybuk> Kamion: I'd be happy to learn that and take some of the work from you
[03:27] <infinity> Kamion: I have ftpmaster rights, but have not been abusing them out of deference to others.
[03:27] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: k, let's go over it after meeting
[03:27] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: 'k
[03:27] <infinity> Kamion: If you need more help in that area, just holler.
[03:27] <Kamion> mdz: opinion on ftpmastery?
[03:28] <mdz> Kamion: is elmo still helping out there?
[03:28] <Kamion> if Keybuk's keen, I see no reason not to
[03:28] <Riddell> Keybuk: are there packages for n-m 0.6 yet?
[03:28] <Kamion> mdz: not since the switch to Soyuz
[03:28] <Kamion> which I think is more a matter of time than policy
[03:28] <Kamion> (since he's busy with the tools)
[03:28] <mdz> Kamion: ok, please help Keybuk get up to speed then
[03:29] <infinity> Kamion: There are certainly times when doing buildd stuff that I'd like to NEW things on my own, etc, but don't, as I don't want to to step on toes.
[03:29] <Kamion> Keybuk: please mail RT to get access
[03:29] <Kamion> I also don't object to infinity being able to smooth his own path
[03:29] <mdz> Keybuk: please munge Kamion's teachings into a wiki page for the next time around (and for me)
[03:29] <Kamion> Keybuk: let me know when that's done and I shall dispense runic wisdom or something
[03:29] <mdz> infinity: feel free to deal with binary NEW yourself
[03:30] <mdz> Keybuk: I'll try to remember to tap elmo when I see him later today
[03:30] <mdz> Keybuk: thanks
[03:30] <infinity> Keybuk: You need to be added to the "lp_archive" group for ftpmastery (make that explicit in your RT ticket)
[03:30] <mdz> Kinnison: here?
[03:30] <pitti> speaking of archive tools, if I sat down and wrote a tool that does syncs, would anyone hurt me?
[03:31] <mdz> pitti: I spoke to kiko about this yesterday, and he said that josie has been ported to soyuz already
[03:31] <Kamion> pitti: I understand that elmo's part-way through such a tool, but you could talk to him
[03:31] <mdz>   /srv/launchpad.net/codelines/current/scripts/sync-source.py  --help
[03:31] <pitti> oh, neat
[03:31] <infinity> elmo's tool is stalled on him having some anger management issues with his tools, apparently.
[03:31] <mdz> Kamion: <kiko> in lp_queue's home there is a HOWTO-SYNC file
[03:31] <Kamion> mdz: can you get a definitive answer out of elmo on whether that's definitely OK to use?
[03:32] <mdz> Kamion: not at the moment; try it and see?
[03:32] <Kamion> I don't like using tools that look finished but might not be blessed yet
[03:32] <pitti> I pile up new requests every day, and doing them later doesn't help to make UVF exceptions better
[03:32] <Kamion> been bitten by that already
[03:32] <infinity> Kamion: Last I heard, it was still somewhat unhappy.
[03:32] <mdz> infinity: once the tool is sorted, would you own syncs going forward?
[03:32] <infinity> Kamion: Or, in his words, "I though it was working, then it broke again"
[03:32] <infinity> mdz: Sure thing.
[03:33] <infinity> mdz: If you can chase up elmo on the status of said tool, that'd be cool, since you'r ein the same town.  If not, I'll bug him when we cross paths.
[03:33] <JaneW> I'll mail Kinnison 
[03:34] <mdz_> infinity: once the tool is sorted, would you own syncs going forward?
[03:34] <infinity> mdz: And if you missed my previous message:
[03:34] <mdz_> Kamion: I'll follow up with kiko/elmo
[03:34] <mdz_> JaneW: thanks
[03:34] <infinity> 07:32 < infinity> mdz: Sure thing.
[03:34] <Kamion> thanks
[03:34] <mdz_> infinity: cool
[03:34] <pitti> thanks
[03:34] <dholbach> yeah, cool :)
[03:34] <mdz_> Mithrandir: next?
[03:34] <Mithrandir> misc: keyboards.  Korean keyboard handling is getting there, espresso's keyboard handling is getting there and I'm getting bored of keymaps.  Also done some small fixes to gdm, evolution and the clock applet for pet peeves.  Also: released flight-5
[03:35] <Mithrandir> next week: More keyboard stuff, possibly flight-6 (end of next week), possibly popcon.u.c
[03:35] <Mithrandir> blocked: no
[03:35] <mdz_> Mithrandir: what remains on espresso keyboard stuff?
[03:36] <Mithrandir> mdz_: it doesn't actually apply any of the settings yet.
[03:36] <Mithrandir> it needs a map from installer keymaps to X keymaps and do immediate-apply of those
[03:36] <infinity> (Does Mithrandir get bonus points for visiting the Korean embassy just to get a keyboard?)
[03:36] <mdz_> infinity: yes
[03:36] <sivang> heh
[03:37] <Mithrandir> mdz_: it's "almost there", but I keep being distracted with stuff like the korean keyboards and such, which is why it's moving slower than I'd like.
[03:38] <mdz_> Mithrandir: however, espresso is still very high priority, so don't let the Korean keyboard become too much of a time sink
[03:38] <Kamion> (the map is easy, BTW, we just lift it out of xserver-xorg.config)
[03:38] <mdz_> that can land later, needs less testing
[03:38] <mdz_> Mithrandir: thanks
[03:38] <mdz_> mvo: next?
[03:38] <mvo> Did:
[03:38] <mvo> - ui-sprint: 
[03:38] <mvo>   * new notification-bubbles design in the archive
[03:38] <mvo> - i18n-sprint:
[03:38] <mvo>   * build/uploaded a bunch of thai support packages
[03:38] <mvo>   * worked on a general input-method solution (uploaded, only zh_HK missing)
[03:38] <mvo>   * banged my head against fontconfig for CJK (it's all pretty horrid)
[03:38] <mvo> - misc:
[03:38] <mvo>  * various update for update-manager, g-a-i, update-notifier, fonts
[03:38] <mvo>  * a bit of work on the dist-upgrade tool (little, I need my usual setup to properly work/test stuff)
[03:38] <mvo>  * finished the backport of the tools for the dist-upgrader
[03:39] <mvo> Will do:
[03:39] <mvo> - get hold of infinity to get the auto-dist-upgrade test chroot setup
[03:39] <mvo> - get the upgrade tool into the archive
[03:39] <mvo> - try to get promotion to main for the backported python-vte in breezy-updates (from universe to main) if that is possible (for the dist-upgrade-tool)
[03:39] <mvo> - catchup with the stuff that I wasn't able to do due to sprinting (my todo list is pretty long currently :(
[03:39] <mvo> - see if the OFL font license is suitable for main (seems so)
[03:39] <Kamion> ug, don't know whether we can promote stuff just in breezy-updates
[03:39] <mdz_> mvo: any hope for fontconfig?
[03:39] <mvo> Kamion: it would be nice otherwise people need to add breezy-updates universe
[03:40] <Kamion> I can try, I guess; will need to clone off an anastacia setup for breezy+breezy-updates to make sure the world remains sane
[03:40] <mdz_> mvo: please send me your todo list via email; I'll give you a hand with prioritization
[03:40] <pitti> mdz_: we had a pretty nice discussion with Abel some hours ago, will have another round after the meeting I guess
[03:40] <mvo> mdz_: very hard problem, unfortunately we have no real expert here. we will probably send configs for the languages that need special treatment
[03:40] <doko> mvo: OFL?
[03:41] <mdz_> mvo: if you can find someone upstreamish, I'm happy to fund a bounty to get what we need
[03:41] <mvo> mutl-languages font configuration is a big problem in general, that's for sure
[03:41] <mvo> mdz_: thanks, I'll try
[03:41] <mvo> doko: open font license
[03:41] <ogra> doko, open foint license ?
[03:41] <mdz_> mvo: I don't think we can target multi-language configurations for Dapper; focus on getting each language right first
[03:41] <mvo> mdz_: the current plan is to ship configs in language-selector (fontconfig snippets)
[03:42] <mvo> mdz_: that are selected based on the default language (if they are required)
[03:42] <mdz_> eek
[03:42] <mvo> doko: http://scripts.sil.org/OFL
[03:42] <pitti> mvo: so you discarded the 'let's chop fonts' approach?
[03:42] <mdz_> mvo: how will we get it set up correctly at install time?
[03:43] <mvo> the trouble is that zh_CN and zh_TW have different preferences for fonts and we can't easily put that in language-{support,pack}
[03:43] <doko> mvo: one nice unicode font is there ...
[03:43] <mvo> doko: which one?
[03:43] <mvo> pitti: that solve only part of the problem
[03:44] <mvo> mdz_: we need to work that out 
[03:44] <pitti> mvo: right, but better one part solved and one open than two open :)
[03:44] <pitti> the other problem is an intrinsic font design problem that we can't solve
[03:44] <doko> mvo: Gentium
[03:45] <mdz_> mvo: ok, thanks
[03:45] <mdz_> we can continue the fontconfig discussion after the meeting
[03:45] <mdz_> ogra: next?
[03:45] <mvo> daf had a idea what we could try to solve one problem without chopping 
[03:45] <ogra> * general: flight 5 preparation and testing, fixed ltsp-update-sshkeys to copy the keys even if sshd isnt running, other small ltsp fixes, hunted the gnome-screensaver GL hacks flicker, found the reason, working on a fix. fixed the "two menu entries for screensaver preferences" bug (upload pending (will happen today)), worked on dirtributor-icon inclusion for edubuntu-artwork, no edubuntu-docs work yet. prepared and moved the complete hwdb dataset
[03:45] <ogra>  (~4.5G) to the DC.
[03:45] <ogra> next-week: poke gnome-screensaver harder, get the flickering fixed (make sure GL screensavers are displayed in a GL visual by gnome-screensaver), more edubuntu-artwork stuff, more edubuntu-docs work, look into progressbar handling of ltsp-client-builder.udeb now that UI freeze slided, more small ltsp fixes.
[03:45] <mvo> doko: we have it in multiverse currently (can probably go to universe/main)
[03:45] <mdz_> ogra: what's the reason for the flickering?
[03:45] <ogra> mdz_, g-s-s uses the default visual of the screen
[03:46] <ogra> it must use the GL visual 
[03:46] <doko> mvo: yes, was on my TODO list, now on your's ;p
[03:46] <ogra> xscreensaver has handling for that in the daemon
[03:46] <mdz_> ogra: good, should be straightforward from here.  thanks for tracking it down
[03:46] <ogra> my job, eh ? ;)
[03:47] <mdz_> indeed
[03:47] <mdz_> pitti: next?
[03:47] <pitti> educing-duplication:
[03:47] <pitti>  * status: no progress last week; gnutls transition is ready on primary arches, SCCs need to catch up;
[03:47] <pitti>  * plan: sort out SCCs for gnutls12, finish libgd demotion, discuss libsqlite0 demotion with infinity (php5-sqlite is the only package that needs to be changed)
[03:47] <pitti> general stuff done this week: security updates, new langpacks, tons of bug triage and fixing, annoyed Kamion with lots of espresso bug reports, lots of font discussion for the l10n sprint
[03:47] <pitti> next week: bug fixing, CD testing
[03:47] <pitti> s/^/r/ :)
[03:47] <Kamion> I demoted some of libgd yesterday
[03:47] <pitti> I think it needs a rebuild of *desktop to get the python-gdchart out of it
[03:48] <pitti> should be mostly brainless stuff
[03:48] <infinity> pitti: I'm babysitting the SCCs with gnutls, I'll ping you when it's ready.
[03:48] <pitti> thanks
[03:48] <infinity> pitti: And we can discuss sqlite at another time.
[03:48] <mdz_> pitti: looks like the main inclusion queue is back down to a reasonable size
[03:48] <pitti> the only serious issue is sqlite, the rest is straightforward
[03:48] <pitti> mdz_: I tried hard, but I still shy away from things like asterisk...
[03:49] <Kamion> anastacia isn't too bad at the moment either
[03:49] <sivang> asterisk to be brought in main? interesting.
[03:49] <pitti> I did some cleanup yesterday, will do a followup on that next week
[03:49] <mdz> Kamion: indeed, looking much more manageable
[03:49] <mdz> thanks, both of you
[03:49] <Kamion> there's some noise from hppa which will go away once it's caught up
[03:49] <pitti> some stuff in it needs packaging fixes
[03:49] <mdz> seb128: next?
[03:49] <seb128> This week: GNOME 2.14.0, fixed firefox so GNOME stuff build again, fixed xorg cursor theme use, played with new xkeyboard-config that fixes GNOME xkb issues which are a frequent user complain, update menu item names and tooltips with changes pointed by mail
[03:49] <seb128> Tomorrow: bug day
[03:49] <seb128> Next week(century?): bugs catching up and fixing (went from 10 unread bug mails before UI sprint to 400 and that's with keeping one mail unread by bug usually...lot of backlog to work on)
[03:50] <Kamion> silbs tells me that the ops team is ready to go with promoting Xubuntu, so I may do that pretty soon
[03:50] <Kamion> ops/support that is
[03:50] <mdz> seb128: mmm, would be good to get GNOME+xkb sorted
[03:50] <janimo> \o/
[03:50] <seb128> mdz: updating xkeyboard-config from 0.6 to 0.8 would do it
[03:50] <seb128> mdz: Mithrandir is looking on it
[03:50] <mdz> janimo: ;-)
[03:51] <Keybuk> . o O { it'd be nice if GNOME/X could get the right bloody key for PrintScreen }
[03:51] <seb128> according to daniels there should be no issue with the upgrade
[03:51] <seb128> (and works fine for me)
[03:51] <mdz> seb128: what can we do to help you and dholbach process the desktop bugs faster?  any low-hanging fruit we could change in malone?
[03:51] <pitti> seb128: for french keyboards :)
[03:52] <seb128> mdz: nothing obvious no, the issue is the quantity of bugs coming atm ...
[03:52] <kbrooks> Keybuk, isnt that discussion offtopic here
[03:53] <seb128> mdz: would be nice to have the search non returning closed bugs though
[03:53] <pitti> seb128++
[03:53] <seb128> but bradb knows about it
[03:53] <sivang> seb128++
[03:53] <pitti> that's utterly annoying
[03:53] <seb128> atm it takes ages to find a bug due to that
[03:53] <mdz> seb128: is there a controversy over whether it should be changed?
[03:53] <mdz> or is it to be fixed?
[03:53] <seb128> to be fixed
[03:53] <mdz> good
[03:54] <Keybuk> I sat down with bradb a couple of weeks ago and gave him the spec for a "bugs I need to fix" page
[03:54] <mdz> I'm not going to make it over to the LP sprint before I leave, but they're charging ahead over there
[03:54] <Keybuk> I think the reason it isn't done is that LP would struggle to produce it in time
[03:54] <Keybuk> so hopefully with the performance upgrades they've been doing, we'll see it soon
[03:54] <mdz> Keybuk: is it written up?  I'd like to see it
[03:54] <seb128> extending the number of bugs by page would be nice too
[03:55] <mvo> seb128++
[03:55] <pitti> right, even if it's just manually changing batch_end (but that doesn't work ATM)
[03:55] <seb128> because having to browser 10 pages to browse the nautilus bug is really subobtimal
[03:55] <Keybuk> mdz: I didn't, I'll find out whether he did
[03:56] <dholbach> and make sorting work not across the 20 bugs displayed, but across the whole set
[03:56] <mdz> seb128: agreed
[03:56] <pitti> these issues are mainly a db problem
[03:56] <seb128> dholbach: you can edit the URL for that
[03:56] <pitti> it's not that it's wanted that way
[03:56] <mdz> dholbach: really, does it not sort the full list?
[03:56] <mdz> I see
[03:56] <pitti> no, just the displayed batch
[03:57] <Mithrandir> the sorting is useless due to that, IMO
[03:57] <dholbach> mdz: the last time I tried not... from that time on, I only used advanced searches with handpicked bug statuses
[03:57] <seb128> mdz: no, they dropped the option from the UI, and clicking on the column acts on the page
[03:57] <seb128> mdz: but you can add the parameter by hand to the URI as a workaround
[03:57] <mdz> ok, either deal with bradb/kiko directly or queue issues with iwj for next week
[03:57] <mdz> seb128: thanks
[03:57] <mdz> sivang: ?
[03:59] <sivang> mdz: here
[03:59] <mdz> sivang: you wanted to report something?
[03:59] <sivang> mdz: had some good progress the last week, I can see the end now, approxmt. in one week from now or less
[04:00] <mdz> sivang: ok
[04:00] <sivang> mdz: backend are are ready, including burn and isobuilding, all left is glade and PyGTK UI hacking to finish.
[04:00] <sivang> (including supoort for multisession for differential backups)
[04:00] <mdz> sivang: please type your updates in advance in the future; it saves a great deal of time
[04:00] <sivang> mdz: yes, sorry 
[04:00] <mdz> sivang: thanks
[04:00] <mdz> Riddell: next?
[04:01] <Riddell> done:
[04:01] <Riddell>  ui sprint artwork
[04:01] <Riddell>  flight 5
[04:01] <Riddell>  fix the main problems in flight 5, and test & upload numberous other bugfixes people have sent me
[04:01] <Riddell> currently doing:
[04:01] <Riddell>  kdm usplash_down
[04:01] <Riddell> next week: 
[04:01] <Riddell>  kde espresso, KDE 3.5.2 packaging
[04:01] <sivang> mdz: (a package will get uploaded soon to universe , so you could see where this is going)
[04:01] <Kamion> espresso's gtkui has moved on a fair bit; though I've tried to keep kde-ui up to date with some of it, I couldn't manage it all, so you'll have a fair bit of catching up to do
[04:02] <Kamion> suggestions for things that could be moved into common code are welcome
[04:02] <sladen> * sivang pinged me about reviewing it, so I guess it's nearly there
[04:02] <Riddell> Kamion: yep, I'll look out for that
[04:02] <mdz> Riddell: happy to fund external work for kde espresso if you can find someone
[04:02] <Riddell> some people from a spanish uni are helping but currently they seem to be rewriting the whole frontend, which isn't terribly helpful
[04:02] <mdz> Riddell: how is the overall bug situation for kubuntu?
[04:03] <Kamion> Riddell: that all sounds disturbingly familiar and should be nipped in the bud sooner rather than later
[04:03] <Riddell> mdz: major bugs has improved a lot, CUPS is the only vital one still
[04:03] <Kamion> people need to learn the value of incremental improvements that can be looked at piece by piece
[04:04] <JaneW> mdz: I know this has been asked a million times but what's happening re the delay descision, has there beena  special TB sitting yet, or is one scheduled?
[04:04] <mdz> JaneW: it happened yesterday
[04:04] <pitti> Riddell: would upgrading to 1.2beta help in any way?
[04:04] <Kinnison> mdz: When is bug day?
[04:04] <mdz> the decision was ratified
[04:04] <Kamion> JaneW: already done, delay agreed - sabdfl will be writing an announcement
[04:04] <JaneW> oic
[04:04] <mdz> Kinnison: tomorrow I think; coordinate with dholbach
[04:04] <Kamion> and circulating it around CC/TB before sending
[04:04] <JaneW> ok thanks, I missed that
[04:04] <Riddell> pitti: I doubt it would make any difference, the problem is on KDE's side
[04:04] <kbrooks> Kamion, what the?
[04:04] <BenC> mdz: will this affect the sprint scheduled in May?
[04:04] <kbrooks> oh SHIT...
[04:04] <JaneW> I assumed it would be passed
[04:04] <mdz> BenC: yes
[04:04] <pitti> Riddell: I know, but KDE might port to 1.2 directly
[04:04] <Kinnison> mdz: I can only do that if I get agreement from stevea
[04:05] <mdz> kbrooks: please
[04:05] <dholbach> kbrooks: calm yourself
[04:05] <JaneW> mdz: do we know any details of new sprint dates yet?
[04:05] <BenC> mdz: delayed, or change of priorities in the sprint?
[04:05] <Kamion> kbrooks: this is not the place. Please refrain from deliberately disrupting our meeting.
[04:05] <Riddell> pitti: sure, it wouldn't make things any worse certainly
[04:05] <mdz> BenC: will be rescheduled
[04:05] <JaneW> BenC: I asked sabdfl and he said if Dapper is delayed the sprint will be delayed till after dapper is released
[04:05] <mdz> JaneW: no, silbs and I were discussing it today
[04:05] <JaneW> mdz: oh
[04:06] <mdz> but yes, definitely after Dapper
[04:06] <mdz> tentatively mid-June
[04:06] <infinity> mdz: Which would put it pretty close to Spain, then.  Is that also affected/changed?
[04:06] <mdz> infinity: probably will be replaced
[04:07] <mdz> or merged
[04:07] <JaneW> well need to sort this out soon, so that all the leave plans can get figured out again etc
[04:07] <seb128> bah, after GUADEC was nice
[04:07] <mdz> JaneW: silbs is planning it
[04:07] <Kinnison> mdz: Essentially the answer is "no" unless I can get everything done I need to before then
[04:07] <JaneW> mdz: and the debain folk can still go to debconf?
[04:07] <infinity> I was planning on leave around the conference, so I'd like to get some dates so I can put in requeusts and plan. :)
[04:07] <Kinnison> mdz: We're very busy here and since they only have me for a week they're making heavy use of me
[04:07] <mdz> seb128: yes...but we will already be short on time for dapper+1 and need to meet earlier
[04:07] <mdz> Kinnison: right, I thought you were there next week rather than this week
[04:07] <mdz> Kinnison: no worries
[04:08] <mdz> JaneW: as planned
[04:08] <Kinnison> mdz: nup, I'm back on distro next week :-)
[04:08] <mdz> infinity: it'll go out to the lists as soon as it's finalized
[04:08] <infinity> mdz: Excellent, danke.
[04:08] <infinity> Are we through meeting, then?
[04:08] <mdz> we have a backlog of bugs in Malone which no one has looked at yet
[04:09] <mdz> i.e., bugs which aren't automatically CCed to anyone
[04:09] <mvo> do we have a filter for "main" and "universe" now?
[04:09] <mdz> traditionally I had trawled these, but it's grown so far beyond my available time that it's laughable
[04:09] <JaneW> I will be bugging anypone with goald which are not yet marked 'Implemented' in the morning. Be warned.
[04:09] <Kamion> is there a way to get a report of those?
[04:09] <infinity> How do we find bugs without auto-CCs?
[04:09] <Kamion> snap
[04:09] <mdz> seb128: yes, but you, too, are only one person ;-)
[04:10] <seb128> right
[04:10] <pitti> I tried to in the past, but the flood of universe bugs makes tracking ubuntu-bugs almost impossible
[04:10] <Keybuk> there's no main/universe filter that I'm aware of
[04:10] <pitti> or, at least, needs too much time
[04:10] <mdz> Kamion: was talking with kiko about that yesterday, will see what can be done
[04:10] <Keybuk> I was told that that query is damned hard in Launchpad, and would take minutes to run
[04:10] <mdz> for now, ubuntu-bugs is a good start
[04:10] <mdz> mvo: not yet, but it's on the whiteboard next to me as a target for the LP sprint
[04:11] <mvo> Keybuk: maybe it would be possible to generate a static page for this (as a workaround)?
[04:11] <Kinnison> Keybuk: pardon? minutes?
[04:11] <mdz> mvo: kiko said it wouldn't be too hard
[04:11] <sivang> seb128: please CC me on  g-s-t stuff that goes through you , I'll start taking look at them when I've finished with HUB.
[04:11] <seb128> no human is able to keep up with ubuntu-bugs traffic
[04:11] <Kamion> Keybuk: you mean the main/universe filter would take minutes?
[04:11] <seb128> sivang: you know, you can subscribe to a package
[04:11] <Keybuk> Kamion: yeh
[04:11] <Kamion> I look at subject lines of about half the new bugs, randomly
[04:11] <mdz> Kinnison: if you could poke a bit for us at the sprint about getting the report we need (bugs that no developer has looked at yet), that would be a great help
[04:11] <Keybuk> Kinnison: cross-referencing all bug reports against component
[04:11] <mdz> Kinnison: I didn't get that onto the original list
[04:12] <sivang> seb128: oh right, will do :)
[04:12] <Kamion> Keybuk: it could be done more easily as an X-Launchpad-Bug thing when mails go out, though, couldn't it?
[04:12] <Kinnison> mdz: If you can produce a list of the queries we're interested in I will sit with brad and help him work out how to do it
[04:12] <Kamion> that's simple, "is this bug filed on a package in main or universe"
[04:12] <Keybuk> Kamion: that assumes you have every ubuntu-bugs e-mail in your mailbox ready to be filtered
[04:12] <Kamion> I do. HAND. :-)
[04:12] <Keybuk> Kamion: I was talking about getting a page of bug links for mass-triage purposes
[04:12] <seb128> Keybuk: would be nice
[04:13] <mdz> Kinnison: in addition to "display only bugs in main" functionality (which is on the list already), we need a report which shows us bugs we haven't touched yet
[04:13] <Kamion> actually, we already have component=main in X-Launchpad-Bug
[04:13] <Keybuk> Kamion: we do, yes
[04:13] <Kamion> right, might start procmailing on that then
[04:13] <Keybuk> if you have ubuntu-bugs, the headers are useful
[04:13] <mdz> yes, I filter on that for ubuntu-bugs
[04:13] <mdz> there are other useful bits in the headers as well
[04:13] <mdz> we need to wrap up here
[04:13] <Kinnison> mdz: seriously I have no context as to what this is "in addition to" and I have only very patchy IRCness currently
[04:13] <pitti> cool, /me will adjust his procmail settings for that
[04:14] <Keybuk> mdz: release schedule
[04:14] <Kinnison> mdz: mail it to me :-)
[04:14] <mdz> revised release schedule is up here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperReleaseSchedule/Slewed
[04:14] <Kamion> release delay is NOT AN EXCUSE for new features
[04:14] <mdz> Kamion++
[04:14] <Kamion> i.e. we're still in feature freeze
[04:14] <mdz> Kinnison: please read the log; you should know what was said here anyway
[04:14] <Kinnison> okay, but it's gonna be tonight before I have time to trawl the log
[04:15] <mdz> Kinnison: no problem
[04:15] <Kinnison> okay
[04:15] <mdz> thanks, everyone
[04:15] <mdz> adjourned
[04:15] <dholbach> thanks
[04:15] <pitti> I have a last question: does anyone know whether/when we can do backports again?
[04:15] <seb128> thank you mdz
[04:15] <sivang> thanks mdz 
[04:15] <doko> thanks
[04:15] <nhaines> Wow, my first attended meeting.  Kinda exciting.
[04:15] <nhaines> Thanks, everyone.  :)
[04:15] <mdz> pitti: no, I don't...might be a good one for iwj next week
[04:15] <infinity> pitti: Waiting on the backports automation tool to exist for LP.  Another elmo-special.
[04:16] <Kamion> aren't backports a special case of syncs?
[04:16] <pitti> alright, thanks
[04:16] <infinity> pitti: I'll chase that one up this week, if you violently ping me.
[04:16] <Kamion> oh, no, not quite I guess, version number gets tweaked
[04:16] <infinity> Kamion: They're syncs with scary automated changelog abuse.
[04:16] <pitti> the LP guys asked me for postgresql 8.1 packages, but now that we have them in b-backports, I'd like to keep them current
[04:16] <Kamion> so syncs are a special case of backports. ;-)
[04:16] <infinity> :)
[04:16] <nhaines> dholbach, if you have time, I'd like to speak with you about bug triaging?
[04:17] <dholbach> nhaines: we could move to #ubuntu-bugs
[04:17] <nhaines> Thank you.
[04:17] <infinity> Kamion: If what you're driving at is "there's common code here, and they could probably even be the same tool, with an extra scary 'this is a backport, fudge the version'" option, you're likely right.
[04:18] <infinity> Kamion: If elmo doesn't have time, I can probably take his sync tool, snag the binNMU code from sbuild that does versoin and changelog munging already, do some s/perl/python/ across it, and call it good.
[04:18] <infinity> Kamion: Or something. :)
[04:19] <pitti> alright, thanks to everyone
[04:46] <sivang> Seveas: yes, he's is behaving today :)
[04:48] <Seveas> and he will continue to
[04:48] <Seveas> btw: all launchpad auth problems are solved too, work continues steadily on the bantracker
[04:49] <Seveas> hmm
[06:37] <sivang> Seveas: cool
[06:37] <Seveas> sivang, what?
[06:45] <sivang> Seveas: anwering on your previous comment
[06:45] <Seveas> ah 
[06:46] <Kinnison> that's a v. cute character
[06:48] <highvoltage> 
[06:49] <Kinnison> indeed
[06:51] <Howdy125> Looks like an .. a with a squiggle over it and a pair of dice to me .. 
[06:52] <jbailey> Howdy125: Make sure you're using utf-8
[06:52] <jbailey> Otherwise some words like Montral will come out poorly, too.
[06:52] <Howdy125> ty
[06:52] <xhaker> i want that char combination
[06:52] <xhaker> haha
[07:04] <Lure>  
[07:15] <toma> hmm, maybe to early
[07:18] <Riddell> toma: 1 hour 45 mins to go
[07:19] <toma> ah, utc even
[08:14] <toma> pompompom
[08:17] <_^Smash^_> ? kubuntu-meeting?
[08:19] <FunnyLookinHat> It's in 40 minutes.
[08:19] <FunnyLookinHat> err,
[08:20] <FunnyLookinHat> Yes.  40 minutes
[08:40] <toma> 20
[08:48] <Mr-Petah> hi all
[09:00] <raphink> hi
[09:00] <allee> ho
[09:01] <raphink> hi allee
[09:01] <raphink> hi Lure
[09:02] <Riddell> evening all
[09:02] <Lure> hi raphink
[09:02] <raphink> :)
[09:03] <raphink> meeting now?*
[09:03] <Riddell> certainly is
[09:03] <robotgeek> hey Riddell raphink :)
[09:03] <raphink> who is there for it?
[09:03] <raphink> hi robotgeek
[09:04] <allee> allee is Achim Bohnet
[09:04] <Riddell> no hobbbsee or jpatrick
[09:04] <Riddell> Lure: are you LukaRenko?
[09:04] <Lure> yep
[09:05] <Riddell> good, glad one person with agenda items turned up :)
[09:05] <raphink> hehe
[09:05] <raphink> good thing indeed
[09:05] <Tm_T> 13:47 < Hobbsee> night all...see you at 7am my time, 20.00 UTC
[09:05] <Tm_T> ;)
[09:05] <raphink> hopefully she'll be here by the minute
[09:05] <raphink> heh
[09:05] <raphink> ;)
[09:05] <raphink> there
[09:05] <Tm_T> haha
[09:05] <Hobbsee> hey everyone!
[09:05] <raphink> well done Tm_T ;)
[09:05] <Hobbsee> hehe
[09:05] <raphink> hi Hobbsee
[09:06] <Hobbsee> my machine thought actually booting up was overrated...
[09:06] <Lure> hi Hobbsee
[09:06] <raphink> hehe
[09:06] <Hobbsee> hey Lure and raphink 
[09:06] <Hobbsee> it booted the *third* time!
[09:06] <Riddell> hmm, no tonio or jpatrick for this first item
[09:07] <raphink> i'll call tonio
[09:07] <Riddell> agenda is at https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Meetings
[09:07] <Riddell> so second item is from Hobbsee?
[09:07] <Hobbsee> ah, yeah
[09:07] <raphink> tonio is coming
[09:08] <Hobbsee> do we want to wait for tonio?
[09:08] <Riddell> Hobbsee: no, on you go
[09:08] <Hobbsee> how many people do we have this morning?
[09:08] <raphink> Hobbsee: I just called him he's coming
[09:08] <Hobbsee> okay
[09:08] <raphink> but you can begin
[09:08] <Riddell> Hobbsee: at least seven I count
[09:08] <Hobbsee> well, after last meeting, i checked out knemo - it looks pretty useful.  have people checked this out at all?
[09:09] <jjesse> i'm here now
[09:09] <raphink> kwwii: are you there?
[09:09] <robotgeek> i'm not a dev, but i'm here for LukaRenko's point
[09:09] <apokryphos> knemo is very cool; worked when I tried it last on dapper IIRC
[09:09] <Hobbsee> how does it go on your system, in terms of cpu?
[09:09] <kwwii> raphink: yepp
[09:09] <raphink> kwwii: good :)
[09:09] <apokryphos> knemo is never really server intensive :P
[09:09] <robotgeek> Hobbsee: i use it, it seems fine
[09:09] <Hobbsee> I suggest that we have a revote on it, as more people have now had time to test
[09:09] <raphink> knemo is very light
[09:10] <Hobbsee> Luka mentioned that it was cpu heavy, hence the question
[09:10] <raphink> it is useful, informative and doesn't crash
[09:10] <raphink> ah?
[09:10] <Lure> I do not object in including it by default (I can turn it on), but it has impact on power management
[09:10] <allee> I use knemo for more than a year.  CPU ~ 2 -3 % with min freq
[09:10] <raphink> on power management Lure?
[09:10] <raphink> how so?
[09:10] <Lure> s/on/off/
[09:10] <Tonio__> hi ;)
[09:10] <Tonio__> sorry for beeing a bit late
[09:10] <raphink> Lure: the version that is in dapper? or the newest one?
[09:10] <Lure> CPU load of 3-4% when on low CPU freq
[09:10] <raphink> hi Tonio__
[09:10] <Riddell> do we have a main inclustion report for knemo?
[09:11] <Lure> raphink: Dapper version
[09:11] <Riddell> yes, https://wiki.kubuntu.org/MainInclusionReportKNemo
[09:11] <raphink> Lure: doesn't the dapper version only watch the connections?
[09:11] <Tonio__> Riddell: no news on that point, knemo is still universe, and I can confirm Lure's bug
[09:11] <Lure> apokryphos: it is not intensive (that you would feel), but on lightly loaded system it uses same CPU time as xorg
[09:12] <Riddell> doesn't knemo conflict with wlanassistant in terms of systray space?
[09:12] <Hobbsee> hey Tonio_ 
[09:12] <Tonio_> Riddell: wlassistant doesn't fit in the systray
[09:12] <allee> knemo has customizable menu.  If we will make use of it (??) that's something knetdock apps has not
[09:12] <Lure> Riddell: wlassitant does not really compare (and not in systray)
[09:13] <Riddell> ok cool
[09:13] <Tonio_> there is another app
[09:13] <Riddell> so a voluteer please to add that main inclusion report to the main inclusion queue
[09:13] <Lure> knetdockapp is similar (at least last version) and knetworkmanager (for future)
[09:13] <Tonio_> called knetdockapp
[09:13] <Tonio_> Lure: yeah ;)
[09:13] <Riddell> then I'll put it on the CD and we can see if we get any complaints/complements
[09:13] <Riddell> Hobbsee: care to volunteer since you brought the item up? :)
[09:13] <Tonio_> I'm in contact with upstream, and it is activelly developped
[09:13] <raphink> how many DF do we still have to go with the new schedule Riddell?
[09:13] <Tonio_> but not as nice as knemo actually
[09:13] <Lure> knetdockapp has almost 0% CPU usage, but universe version is not latest and as nice as knemo
[09:14] <allee> Isn't knemo disabled by default? 
[09:14] <Tonio_> allee: it  is
[09:14] <Riddell> raphink: DF?
[09:14] <raphink> dapper flight sorry Riddell
[09:14] <Hobbsee> hehe preferably not.  i wouldnt know what to put in a main inclusion report
[09:14] <Lure> allee: knemo is configured but not started by default
[09:14] <allee> So do you turn it on to get feedback?
[09:14] <Riddell> raphink: no idea, flights just come every two weeks if it's sane to do so
[09:14] <allee> s/you/we/
[09:14] <Riddell> Hobbsee: in the list of things to be reviewed
[09:15] <allee> Riddell: to get feedback maybe a good idea for at leat one flight
[09:15] <Tm_T> jpatrick: welcome
[09:15] <Riddell> allee: yes, agreed
[09:15] <jpatrick> Tm_T: hi
[09:15] <Riddell> ok, lets move on
[09:15] <Riddell> jpatrick had an item and Tonio_ is here now
[09:15] <Lure> as I said, I do not feel CPU load is showstopper, but just concern as linux PM is already not as battery efficient as the ugly OS
[09:15] <Tonio_> Riddell: as we discuss about network tools, could we take the oportunity to talk a bit about wlassistant ?
[09:16] <raphink> hi jpatrick
[09:16] <Hobbsee> Tonio_: please.  i'm always on the search for good ones :P
[09:16] <jjesse> Tonio_: i used wlassastiant last night but couldn't get it to give me a dhcp address
[09:16] <jjesse> had to do a sudo dhclient eth1
[09:16] <jpatrick> bonsoir raphink 
[09:16] <Tonio_> I didn't put it on the agenda, cause I finished the package last night, and I'm not available during the day now.....
[09:16] <toma> Lure: those who have a problem with battery life, can turn it off if they get hit by it
[09:17] <Lure> toma: exactly, this is why I am fine to turn it on by default
[09:17] <toma> k
[09:17] <Riddell> Tonio_: if it works better than kwifimanager we should try and get it in
[09:17] <Tonio_> Riddell: testers needed for this ;)
[09:17] <jjesse> it worked a lot better then kwifimanager
[09:17] <Lure> Riddell: it is better, fot sure
[09:17] <Riddell> Tonio_: where can we get it?
[09:17] <Lure> s/fot/for/
[09:17] <Tonio_> Riddell: revu
[09:17] <Hobbsee> Tonio_: i'll test when i next take my laptop to uni.  because of the lack of wpa support, i cant test it at home
[09:17] <jjesse> i couldn't get it to give me an ip address via dhcp, had to manually due it
[09:17] <robotgeek> it's unanimously hated, kwifimanager
[09:17] <Tonio_> still few polishing needed, but should be working
[09:17] <Riddell> ok, everyone test wlanassistent!
[09:18] <Riddell> and watch out for dhcp problems
[09:18] <Hobbsee> robotgeek: +1.  it lies!
[09:18] <Tm_T> Riddell: if you buy wlan system to me ;)
[09:18] <robotgeek> Riddell: i have been using it since yesterday on powerpc, broadcom airport extreme, it works decently well
[09:18] <Tonio_> Riddell: robogeek didn't have that problem yesterday, that's why more test is needed
[09:19] <Tonio_> robotgeek: hehe, you're faster than me
[09:19] <robotgeek> heh 
[09:19] <Riddell> can we move on?
[09:19] <kwwii> robotgeek: help me get my broadcom working and I'll test it :-)
[09:19] <Tonio_> Riddell: please ;)
[09:19] <robotgeek> kwwii: sure, after meeting maybe
[09:19] <Riddell> jpatrick: go
[09:20] <jpatrick> I thought we agreed on keeping the tabs on the button
[09:20] <Tm_T> jpatrick: I thought too
[09:20] <Av|XeN> is it possible that kubuntu can use multiple audio sources at the same time on onboard sound (i've tried a few guides)
[09:20] <robotgeek> Av|XeN: wrong place to ask, please ask in #kubuntu
[09:20] <Riddell> Av|XeN: that's a support question
[09:20] <Av|XeN> ok sorry
[09:21] <Riddell> jpatrick: I think they are all on the bottom now
[09:21] <Hobbsee> jpatrick: i thought we did too, which was why the konsole tabs are now on the bottom too
[09:21] <Tonio_> Riddell: confirmed, I changed all of them, except konqueror, of course
[09:21] <Riddell> yes, so sorted?
[09:21] <jpatrick> yep
[09:22] <allee> yeap
[09:22] <Lure> yes - new layout makes sense
[09:22] <Riddell> Hobbsee: up again
[09:22] <Hobbsee> ah crud.
[09:22] <Riddell> :)
[09:22] <Hobbsee> Are we going to get some kde pictures for flight 5? Surely we dont only have improvements only to gnome. Mornfall should have some pictures of the new Adept and the Update Notifier which should be somewhere in the documentation. What other areas of kde have been changed between breezy and dapper, that are worth putting into the summary page?
[09:23] <Hobbsee> we're starting to get questions on "well, what does the upgrade do for me?  what's new in kde?  i can see all this stuff in gnome"
[09:23] <Riddell> Hobbsee: I'd love someone to work on the flight info pages for kubuntu
[09:23] <Riddell> it just needs someone to do it
[09:23] <robotgeek> that page was usually done by doc team, i think
[09:23] <jjesse> Riddell: i would like to take that role, but i'm a little busy rright now
[09:23] <Hobbsee> do we have a main list on what's been changed or something?
[09:23] <Riddell> screenshots don't take long but finding what to screenshot and the text and all does take time
[09:23] <robotgeek> for ubuntu, atleast
[09:24] <bkjones> I could volunteer some small amounts of time to help with the docs there, riddell
[09:24] <Riddell> bkjones: excellent
[09:24] <Riddell> next flight may well be end of next week
[09:24] <jjesse> flight6?
[09:24] <raphink> ok
[09:24] <Hobbsee> i'm kinda busy for the next week or so - darn uni assignments all being due then, so  i'm hesitant to commit to much
[09:24] <jjesse> Riddell: how owould you see the pages looking like, DapperFlight6/Kubuntu
[09:24] <jjesse> ???
[09:24] <Riddell> bkjones: fancy talking with jjesse and whoever does the ubuntu flight notes to make sure kubuntu is well covered?
[09:25] <raphink> jjesse: or the opposite?
[09:25] <bkjones> riddell: that's my first volunteer thing for kubuntu. I'll need either an account on some wiki or an email addy to mail docs to. 
[09:25] <jjesse> KubuntuDapperFlight6?
[09:25] <robotgeek> Matt Galvin
[09:25] <Tm_T> jjesse: I like to help a bit with it if I can
[09:25] <bkjones> bkjones@gmail.com :-
[09:25] <bkjones> :-)
[09:25] <Riddell> bkjones: anyone can get a wiki account, just sign up on launchpad.net
[09:25] <jjesse> bkjones you could work with me (jjesse@iserv.net)
[09:25] <bkjones> ok
[09:25] <Riddell> bkjones: jjesse's release notes already contain a lot of what's new
[09:26] <raphink> bkjones: you only need to sign up on launchpad.net and log with this account on the wiki
[09:26] <robotgeek> bkjones: possibly join us in #ubuntu-doc too
[09:26] <bkjones> robotgeek: done. 
[09:26] <Riddell> bkjones: do join us in #kubuntu-devel and I'll poke when flight is going to happen
[09:26] <Lure> bkjones, jjesse: thanks for this - I think getting message through is as important as fixing bugs
[09:26] <jjesse> bkjones: we canchat on this
[09:26] <bkjones> maybe the general docs are better for me. I've used breezy and now I'm on dapper, but I'm not sure I could really list changes between the two. 
[09:26] <raphink> Lure: indeed
[09:27] <jjesse> Lure: its something that i've been meaing to do, but need to finish my booik chapter first
[09:27] <jjesse> if you guys would stop changing things :)
[09:27] <Lure> ;-)
[09:27] <raphink> jjesse: lol
[09:27] <Riddell> bkjones: ask us on #kubuntu-devel, we'll tell you what's new and good
[09:27] <Tonio_> jjesse: hehe
[09:27] <Hobbsee> jjesse: you dont have books that change automatically?  weird
[09:27] <Snake__> Lol
[09:27] <jjesse> grin :)
[09:27] <bkjones> hey, by any chance, are there plans to add widescreen wallpapers? 
[09:27] <raphink> Hobbsee: hardcoding doc is bad :p
[09:28] <Riddell> bkjones: that's other business, wait to the end
[09:28] <Riddell> Lure: you're up
[09:28] <Lure> bkjones: that is very wide... ;-) 
[09:28] <bkjones> heh. 
[09:28] <bkjones> k
[09:28] <bkjones> :)
[09:28] <Lure> Should we change default layout of KDE menu from "Name (Description)" to "Description (Name)"
[09:28] <Hobbsee> -25
[09:28] <Snake__> How come??
[09:28] <jjesse> too late to change that the doc is done :)
[09:29] <allee> +25
[09:29] <Riddell> Lure: I think we go with the KDE default on this
[09:29] <Lure> this was discussed on forums and got big support
[09:29] <Tonio_> Lure: I personnaly don't like "description (name)"
[09:29] <Riddell> and I know KDE has switche back and forth, so I don't want to do the same
[09:29] <Snake__> -25 as well..
[09:29] <robotgeek> jjesse: i have a script , talk to me :)
[09:29] <kwwii> bkjones: we could make a 16:9 or 16:10 version of the wallpaper if there is space or it is another question
[09:29] <raphink> I don't like this either
[09:29] <Riddell> Lure: and neither way solves the problem
[09:29] <allee> GenricName (name) passed my family test
[09:29] <Hobbsee> personally, i say use name (description), because a) it seems more logical, and b) if you launch an app from the run command, or from katapult, you need to know it's name.
[09:29] <Snake__> Lure: Just out of curiosity, how come?
[09:29] <jjesse> i don't think this needs to be changed
[09:29] <raphink> allt he more that Name is requried in desktop files, whereas GenericName is not
[09:29] <bkjones> kwwii: that'd be good. 
[09:30] <Tm_T> Hobbsee: agreed
[09:30] <raphink> Hobbsee: yes
[09:30] <bkjones> ack. Meeting for me. Bbiab. 
[09:30] <Riddell> some apps we want to have branded so you know the name, others we don't, I'd like a field added to the .desktop files to indicate the correct way to show them
[09:30] <allee> Newbies don't care about app name, that search for GenericName
[09:30] <Riddell> Lure: do you have any rationale?
[09:30] <Lure> Snake__: it is due to most KDE apps starting with k, requiring more to read. See the link on forums for explanaation
[09:30] <allee> Hirvinen: and appname is in () to alt-f2
[09:31] <Tonio_> Lure: there are plenty of applications that use a crappy GenericName like "a kde application"
[09:31] <Tonio_> I always change that in my package, but that can cause an issue too
[09:31] <allee> Tonio_: This needs to be fixed independently of this topic ;)
[09:31] <Lure> Tonio_: I have switched and not that many have bad description - but some should change
[09:31] <Hirvinen> allee: Are you addressing me or are you just using an inferior IRC client?
[09:31] <raphink> allee: well this is a fact that our apps are not ready for this
[09:32] <allee> Hirvinen: oops
[09:32] <Tm_T> Hirvinen: prolly bad tabfill
[09:32] <Tonio_> allee: well, it is of any interest talking about the way to display the information
[09:32] <Tonio_> the Name is always good, not the genericname
[09:32] <jjesse> can i ask why we would deviate from what is default from KDE?
[09:32] <Tonio_> so the first given information as to be the valid one to me
[09:32] <Hobbsee> what is the default kde?  name (description) ?
[09:32] <allee> jjesse: better for newbies (in my experience)
[09:32] <Lure> allee: +1
[09:33] <raphink> Mandriva has an easy switcher in the kmenueditor iirc
[09:33] <Riddell> hmm, my menu is  description (name)
[09:33] <raphink> to switch between "name (description) and description (name)"
[09:33] <Snake__> :-/
[09:33] <Tm_T> raphink: it's in kicker options
[09:33] <raphink> actually
[09:33] <Tonio_> Riddell: my one is default, and is "Name (Description)"
[09:33] <jjesse> i have amarok (Audio Player)
[09:33] <raphink> they allow to switch to another kmenu presenttion too
[09:33] <Riddell> Tonio_: I'm sure I haven't changed it, curious
[09:33] <Snake__> Ive never had a problem with Name (Descip)
[09:33] <robotgeek> mine is in Name (Deskcription) format
[09:33] <Tm_T> raphink: that what I need
[09:33] <Lure> Riddell: ;-)
[09:33] <nlindblad> Name (Description) here too
[09:33] <Snake__> People chatch on to whats going on
[09:33] <Lure> Riddell: and you like it? ;-)
[09:33] <Snake__> catch**
[09:33] <Riddell> neither is great, and I don't see any one option being significantly better than the other
[09:34] <robotgeek> Riddell: i had that problem as i moved my .kde from breezy
[09:34] <jjesse> could this be a discussion for dapper+1?
[09:34] <Hobbsee> and when you have more than one media player, it shows up as (mediaplayer) app 1, mediaplayer, app2, mediaplayer, app 3, which looks weird adn unhelpful
[09:34] <Tm_T> I have just "name"
[09:34] <jpatrick> Tm_T: +1
[09:34] <robotgeek> one big -ve is that we have to change all kubuntu docs
[09:34] <Snake__> +1 Hobbsee 
[09:34] <nlindblad> jjesse: yeah, not that big of an issue
[09:34] <Tm_T> descriptions use too much space ;)
[09:34] <raphink> jjesse: +1
[09:34] <Hirvinen> It seems that a lot of people at least on freenode are using clients that try to complete the first word of a line into a nick. Which is a bit problematic when people begin with a hi.
[09:34] <Riddell> jjesse: yes, I'd like to do it better for dapper + 1, where we can choose which to show in the .desktop file
[09:34] <Hobbsee> Riddell: breezy seemed to prefer Description (Name)
[09:34] <allee> When I first wanted to switch to genericname (name) is as already selected by not used.  deselecting and selection again made it work (but that was long time ago)
[09:34] <Riddell> Hobbsee: that could well be that KDE changed it then
[09:35] <Tonio_> Riddell: if we can be sure desc is not a "a good kde application" for ALL universe apps, then I'll approve
[09:35] <Lure> Hobbsee: this is actually better, as they are auto-grouped
[09:35] <Tonio_> but that generic genericname is very often used
[09:35] <Lure> robotgeek: good point about docs...
[09:35] <allee> Tm_T: there no difference between space of 'description (name)' or 'name (description)'
[09:35] <Riddell> a lot of gnome apps don't have a GenericName too
[09:35] <Tm_T> allee: I use only 'name'
[09:35] <allee> Tm_T: purist
[09:35] <Tm_T> allee: but no, it's not good default
[09:35] <Snake__> Tm_T: just name would be confusing tho..
[09:35] <Tonio_> Riddell: yes, gnome apps generally use a description as "name"
[09:36] <Riddell> Tonio_: which just shows that the spec if broken, if they feel they can't stick to it
[09:36] <nlindblad> yeah
[09:36] <Riddell> does anyone feel strongly about this issue, or can we agree to stick with KDE default until dapper+1?
[09:36] <nlindblad> +1
[09:36] <trappist> I think the description is a parenthetical issue, where the name is not.  I like to see what app it is, then maybe the description.  especially since so many apps have identical descriptions (see your multimedia menu)
[09:36] <Snake__> +1 Riddell 
[09:36] <Tonio_> Riddell: exactly
[09:36] <jjesse> +1 riddell
[09:36] <allee> Kmenu: uses currently  name (genericname) and on comment is shown in tooltips
[09:37] <Hobbsee> +1 Riddell 
[09:37] <Lure> Riddell: if no generic name, than name is used (se open office)
[09:37] <jpatrick> +1
[09:37] <Tm_T> +1 Riddell 
[09:37] <Lure> s/se/see/
[09:37] <raphink> Riddell: +1
[09:37] <robotgeek> so we arent changing what is currently in my menu? if so, +1
[09:37] <Riddell> anyone know who V7 is?
[09:37] <Snake__> +1
[09:37] <raphink> let's report to dapper+1
[09:37] <Lure> Riddell: I do not feel strongly, just that newbees would be better with proposed change
[09:37] <Hobbsee> Riddell: nope, but i'd say that's a very useful key map to do
[09:38] <Riddell> I'm happy for win key to map to k-menu, I just don't know how
[09:38] <Hobbsee> because the windows key is fairly useless at the moment
[09:38] <Riddell> I remember looking at it years ago and not being able to work it out
[09:38] <Tonio_> Riddell: I know how ;)
[09:38] <nlindblad> Riddell: that's something we want, yeah
[09:38] <Riddell> so first one to come up with the patch to k-d-s gets their name in the changelog
[09:38] <toma> I would like that mapped as well, but i understood it was not possible anymore in KDE
[09:38] <kwwii> screw the win key
[09:38] <Riddell> so long as it doesn't conflict with other uses of the win key
[09:38] <Tonio_> Riddell: I will have a look on that soon
[09:39] <Hobbsee> Riddell: what, no pony?  :P
[09:39] <Riddell> I don't even have a win key on my thinkpad
[09:39] <robotgeek> for mac users, the windows key becomes the command key
[09:39] <raphink> the win key is used for amarok
[09:39] <Tonio_> guys do you appreciate ksnapshot on the print key ?
[09:39] <raphink> by default
[09:39] <Tm_T> raphink: yup
[09:39] <raphink> win + V 
[09:39] <kwwii> i would love it if I had one
[09:39] <Riddell> raphink: I know, means I can't use any shortcuts for amarok by default
[09:39] <toma> Tonio_: yes
[09:39] <raphink> to stop playing in amarok
[09:39] <nlindblad> Tonio_: yes
[09:39] <kmon> Tonio_: +1
[09:39] <Lure> Tonio_: +1
[09:39] <nlindblad> Tonio_: +1
[09:39] <Tonio_> it is already added for info ;) just wanted a feedback
[09:39] <Tm_T> Tonio_: +99
[09:39] <Hobbsee> Tonio_: +1
[09:40] <allee> Tonio_: +1 for ksnapshot
[09:40] <robotgeek> Tonio_: i don't use it, but +1
[09:40] <raphink> Tonio_: rock
[09:40] <Tonio_> just press "print"
[09:40] <Riddell> Lure: next item is yours
[09:40] <Snake__> Tonio_: Print screen would be great
[09:40] <Lure> I am just wondering if there is more candidates that could test Kpowersave
[09:41] <Lure> I would personally like to get latest powersave/kpoersave in Universe for dapper
[09:41] <Tonio_> Lure: ++
[09:41] <nlindblad> Lure: what is it? Brief introduction
[09:41] <raphink> Lure: I still need to be able to build the latest version ;)
[09:41] <Lure> replacement for klaptop
[09:41] <nlindblad> advantages?
[09:41] <Tonio_> way better replacement :)
[09:41] <robotgeek> Lure: will this work on powerpc machines as well?
[09:41] <Lure> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KubuntuPowersave
[09:41] <raphink> Lure: when I get an option to build it without libsysfs.la
[09:41] <Hobbsee> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KubuntuPowersave for more info
[09:41] <Tonio_> nlindblad: well, by far better in any point of view ;)
[09:41] <Lure> robotgeek: it should, but no packages yet
[09:41] <nlindblad> IMO, klaptop is old and poorly translated
[09:41] <Hobbsee> Lure: i'll certainly test it out, when i get the chance
[09:41] <Tonio_> it is a top3 app on kde-apps
[09:41] <robotgeek> Lure: i can build from source package myself
[09:42] <nlindblad> not very userfriendly
[09:42] <Lure> robotgeek: and we need to fix building issue with latest libsysfs
[09:42] <Riddell> people testing doesn't solve the main issue which is that I've been too busy to learn how they both work and what the best way to do power management is in kubuntu
[09:42] <Hobbsee> and klaptop seem to crash every time i hit suspend, which is kind of inconvenient.
[09:42] <Hobbsee> Riddell: true
[09:42] <allee> raphink: that's easy;) rebuild all sources that have libsysfs.la in their .la files.  Grep is your friend ;)
[09:42] <raphink> allee: libsysfs.la was voluntarily removed from the libsysfs-dev package by pitti
[09:43] <Tonio_> Riddell: my opinion : gnome is using the best gtk apps available, and it is a bit sad not using one of the best kde application "because we have to stick with gnome choices"
[09:43] <Riddell> if those packages are in main, raphink has main upload rights now so he can fix them all :)
[09:43] <Lure> raphink: exactly - we need to ask pitti for reason
[09:43] <Tonio_> Riddell: although I can understand this of course ;) but if we want the best kde desktop implementation, we have to use the best apps
[09:43] <allee> raphink: I know. Rebuild that packages that have libsysfs.la in their .la files and libsysfs.la reference goes away
[09:44] <Lure> Riddell: I am shooting for Universe only - this will ensure testers.
[09:44] <raphink> Lure: yes I agree. I tried to ping him. It seems to be fixing a Debian bug. didn't check further though
[09:44] <Lure> Riddell: if feedback is good, then decision for main would be easier
[09:44] <raphink> allee: hmmm
[09:44] <Riddell> so plan is for Lure to get new version into universe, and me to read up on these power tools
[09:45] <allee> raphink: \sh once did this when libXft.la went away
[09:45] <raphink> same here
[09:45] <Lure> I am counting on MOTU for getting packages in... ;-)
[09:45] <raphink> allee: mhm
[09:45] <Tm_T> nlindblad: what is it?
[09:45] <nlindblad> why not have a repository for things we WANT tested
[09:45] <Riddell> nlindblad: launchpad will provide peronal repositories at some point
[09:45] <raphink> Lure: sure, ping Riddell, Tonio_, jpatrick or me for uploads
[09:45] <nlindblad> Riddell: nice
[09:45] <Lure> Riddell: I will also try to get some feedback from ubuntu-laptop people (Matthew) to get buy in
[09:46] <raphink> (I think I'm forgetting some people..
[09:46] <jpatrick> Lure hi
[09:46] <Riddell> Lure: yes, please do
[09:46] <Riddell> is Nirvana here?
[09:46] <Tm_T> Riddell: is he ever here?
[09:46] <Lure> jpatrick: hi
[09:46] <Snake__> Lol
[09:46] <robotgeek> i remember Nirvana posting last meeting too, i think
[09:46] <jpatrick> hehe
[09:46] <Riddell> well if he reads the logs, he can go and ask amu about klickibunti
[09:46] <Riddell> kmon: next
[09:46] <raphink> yes he posts but doesn't show at the meeting
[09:47] <Hobbsee> what is klickibunti?  same as klik?
[09:47] <kmon> AFAIK gnome has a usplash theme for the halting process... When will this enter kubuntu?
[09:47] <Snake__> Hobbsee: I dont think so..
[09:47] <Riddell> kmon: I've actually been working on this all day and not got very far :(
[09:47] <Hobbsee> no, can that, i dont want to know.  there are better things to discuss.
[09:47] <Tonio_> Riddell: :(
[09:47] <Riddell> kdm is horribly complex and I got it working for shutdown from kdm, but not shutdown from within KDE
[09:47] <kmon> I though it was changing the artwork only... but I don't know anything about it, really
[09:47] <kwwii> I made the (I think) current usplash, I can make the shutdown pic too
[09:48] <Riddell> this is a technical problem, and one the usplash authors never bothered to tell me about
[09:48] <Hobbsee> kwwii: the very blue one?  it's horrendous!
[09:48] <Riddell> we need kdm to run usplash_down at the right time
[09:48] <kwwii> hehe
[09:48] <robotgeek> Hobbsee: http://www.klickibunti.org/buntibunti.php
[09:48] <Snake__> LOL
[09:48] <kwwii> Hobbsee: did you see the lighter version? I will probably make that even lighter and you will love it :-9
[09:48] <Hobbsee> ARGH!  My eyes!  my eyes!
[09:48] <Riddell> I'll post my patch on the bug report, but I don't want to spend ages on kdm
[09:48] <Riddell> so... artwork
[09:49] <nlindblad> how is suspend2 doing?=
[09:49] <raphink> robotgeek: ouch
[09:49] <robotgeek> lol
[09:49] <Tm_T> robotgeek: murderer
[09:49] <kmon> Riddell: ok, thanxs for the info
[09:49] <Tonio_> kwwii: is it added to k-d-s ? I didn't saw any change past 4 days
[09:49] <kwwii> I put it up on the wiki, below the first one
[09:49] <Tonio_> kwwii: url ?
[09:50] <kwwii> it shows how much better it can get by being only a slight bit lighter, so going even more extreme will work even better
[09:50] <Riddell> kwwii is working on the artwork for dapper, if anyone has things he should be working on add them to https://wiki.kubuntu.org/KubuntuDapperArtworkTodo
[09:50] <kwwii> wiki.kubuntu.org/DapperKubuntuDesktop I think
[09:50] <Tm_T> kwwii: I will talk to you about this later ;)
[09:50] <raphink> :)
[09:51] <kwwii> I realize now, after seeing the artwork that you like what you want
[09:51] <nlindblad> is Firefox in kubuntu-desktop yet?
[09:51] <robotgeek> Riddell: offtopic, but do you know when/if the "certificate error" will go away on wiki.kubuntu.org
[09:51] <apokryphos> yuck 
[09:51] <Tm_T> nlindblad: stop cursing
[09:51] <jpatrick> nlindblad: never ;)
[09:51] <nlindblad> Tm_T: sorry
[09:51] <Tm_T> ;)
[09:51] <Riddell> nlindblad: no, we use konqueror
[09:51] <kwwii> and I will say now that I do not want to go soooo non-saturated but lets meet half way and see what comes out
[09:51] <nlindblad> I know
[09:51] <kwwii> the pic posted on the meeting page is probably not 16bit safe btw
[09:51] <Hobbsee> kwwii: +1
[09:51] <Riddell> robotgeek: not remembering it seems to be a KDE bug, maybe it's fixed in KDE 3.5.2
[09:52] <Lure> kwwii: +1
[09:52] <robotgeek> Riddell: heh, definetly not a kde bug. 
[09:52] <Tonio_> kwwii: ++ ;)
[09:52] <Riddell> kwwii: will we be able to get a stupidly large wallpaper for 1900 screens or is that too much work?
[09:53] <nlindblad> why not SVG?
[09:53] <apokryphos> why not svgs? :)
[09:53] <Lure> Riddell: my 1920x1200 is only 15.4"
[09:53] <Lure> ;-)
[09:53] <Snake__> Holy crap Lure !
[09:53] <raphink> svg rock :)
[09:53] <Riddell> nlindblad: it's rendered from a 3D modelling tool
[09:53] <nlindblad> Riddell: okey, sorry
[09:53] <Tonio_> svg with that quality image and so many effects would be REALLY heavy
[09:53] <raphink> ah
[09:53] <allee> current bg is too nervous imho.  Hobbsee suggestion is much more releaxed.
[09:53] <sladen> Tonio_: but it's only rendered once, and cached after that
[09:53] <bkjones> back
[09:54] <nlindblad> having the default wallpaper as SVG would give people a nice impression
[09:54] <Hobbsee> there's a wallpaper for that too, apart from the kdm theme.
[09:54] <Snake__> nlindblad: and also kill my P3
[09:54] <Tonio_> sladen: hum.......
[09:54] <nlindblad> Snake__: sorry, I must have too new hardware here ;)
[09:54] <Tonio_> kwwii: any opinion on svg wallpaper ? I really doubt it but well....
[09:54] <Riddell> sladen: SVG wallpapes are not cached
[09:54] <Riddell> Tonio_: it's not an option
[09:54] <Lure> sladen: so it is stored in .png in cache dir?
[09:55] <Riddell> Lure: don't listen to sladen, he didn't write the code (I did)
[09:55] <raphink> breezy had a svg wallpaper iirc
[09:55] <Snake__> Where can I find this SVG thing at?
[09:55] <Snake__> the wallpaper..
[09:55] <Seveas> Riddell, then add the caching code ;)
[09:55] <Riddell> there is no SVG wallpaper!
[09:55] <kwwii> hrm
[09:55] <Riddell> any other artwork comments?
[09:55] <Tonio_> raphink: breezy had svg source of png wallpaper ;)
[09:55] <bkjones> just my "dual screen wallpaper" request, riddell
[09:55] <Tonio_> which is different :)
[09:55] <bkjones> :)
[09:55] <kwwii> well, I can definitely post the xcf file for the wallpaper if that helps
[09:56] <Riddell> bkjones: what's the requirements again?
[09:56] <raphink> well I made my comments on the new window style killing my powerbook already ;)
[09:56] <bkjones> there's a good bit of it, just doesn't come with the distro
[09:56] <Hobbsee> Riddell: to change the kdm, and maybe the default screensaver to http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=30314 ?
[09:56] <Riddell> we have a default screensaver?
[09:56] <Hobbsee> there seem to have been many complaints in the past few days about the bright blue
[09:56] <Hobbsee> er, desktop
[09:56] <kwwii> dude, I turned up the bling on the crystal style and my powerbook is running fine
[09:56] <Hobbsee> but why *dont* we have a default screensaver?
[09:56] <robotgeek> Hobbsee: _1
[09:56] <Snake__> KDE has screensavers?
[09:56] <Snake__> j/p
[09:56] <robotgeek> +1
[09:56] <kwwii> although, I do have 1.5GB of RAM
[09:56] <raphink> Riddell: good idea
[09:56] <Riddell> because screensavers are annoying and get in the way
[09:56] <bkjones> requirements would be that the wallpaper should be twice as wide as it is high. I'm not a graphics geek. Sorry. 
[09:56] <bkjones> :(
[09:57] <Riddell> (in my humble opinion :)
[09:57] <Lure> raphink: I am also seing delay on rendering - particularly with "ati" driver on low CPU freq
[09:57] <Riddell> bkjones: you have the same wallpaper on both screens?
[09:57] <Tm_T> jpatrick: I like too
[09:57] <Tonio_> Riddell: ++ I never used screensaver
[09:57] <bkjones> I think what I have now is 2560x1024
[09:57] <kwwii> a really simple screensaver with a kubuntu logo on black might be nice
[09:57] <Riddell> bkjones: I think that's very hard to satisfy with a default wallpaper
[09:57] <raphink> Lure: I'm seeing it just without nothing special launched
[09:57] <bkjones> riddell: wallpaper crosses screens. 
[09:57] <bkjones> riddell: not default, just make it available
[09:58] <bkjones> default wallpaper looks goofy on dual mons. 
[09:58] <kwwii> bkjones: you mean stretching the pic to cross screens?
[09:58] <bkjones> gets all stretched out. There's not a good way to deal with them on duals. 
[09:58] <kwwii> or mirroring it, etc.
[09:58] <bkjones> yeah. 
[09:58] <Riddell> bkjones: ask kwwii for the xcf's and make one for us
[09:58] <Tonio_> bkjones: we can't provide 100 wallpapers to fit with exceptionnal configurations like yours
[09:58] <bkjones> exceptional? Half my dept. has the same setup!
[09:58] <Tonio_> how many different resolutions do exist ? dozens I assume :)
[09:58] <nlindblad> off-topic: is the installation program capable of resizing NTFS-partitions?
[09:58] <Riddell> bkjones: that's quite an exceptional departement :)
[09:59] <bkjones> well, thanks ;-)
[09:59] <robotgeek> maybe art.kubuntu.org is required
[09:59] <kwwii> I have a long list of resolutions available on modern hardware if anyone wants it
[09:59] <Riddell> nlindblad: it uses libparted, see their website
[09:59] <trappist> we could have kde-wallpapers-$(resolution) packages
[09:59] <kwwii> it is really long
[09:59] <nlindblad> Riddell: okey
[09:59] <toma> i would welcome a background which is usable for dual monitor setup as well
[09:59] <bkjones> yeah, you can find these wallpapers on kde-look and any other site that has wallpaper, but it'd be awesome if they were "just there(tm)". 
[09:59] <bkjones> Just a thought. I'm done :)
[09:59] <kwwii> to be honest making so many resolutions is not soo hard, it is more the point of making about 3 different aspect ratios
[09:59] <Tm_T> kwwii: if I print it as reasonable font, would it be over 100 pages?
[09:59] <Riddell> toma: don't most dual monitor setups use 1 image on each screen?
[10:00] <kwwii> 4:3 16:9 and 16:10
[10:00] <kwwii> Tm_T: well, more like 20 lines or so
[10:00] <bkjones> look at the available ones online. I believe they only make like one or two widescreen sizes for each one. 
[10:00] <toma> Riddell: hmm, i was thinking about it, but i'm not sure, too bad im not at my office now. 
[10:00] <Riddell> kwwii: but even if we have that I don't think we have a way to get it to use the right one by default
[10:00] <Tm_T> kwwii: bah, boring, I thought I have some night reading
[10:00] <toma> Riddell: you might be right.
[10:00] <kwwii> yeah, so forget it
[10:00] <Riddell> toma: I've no idea, never used one
[10:01] <bkjones> I love the "soft green" wallpaper, btw, which I think just appeared after an update last night at home. 
[10:01] <kwwii> we could put optional aspect ratios in some package somwhere though
[10:01] <kwwii> it is almost crazy to talk about doing that for dual monitor setups
[10:01] <toma> bkjones: is that with xinerama?
[10:01] <kmon> i currently use this: http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=31556 Tm_T liked it ;)
[10:01] <bkjones> just throw 'em in a directory under the default. 
[10:01] <kwwii> just mirror the pick
[10:01] <bkjones> toma: twinview :-)
[10:02] <bkjones> so when I browse for wallpaper I can find them, but they're out of the way of most users. 
[10:02] <toma> bkjones: ah, i think xinerama uses the same on both minotors.
[10:02] <Tonio_> kwwii: I would, personnaly, appreciate that kubuntu offers something other that "only blue"
[10:02] <Tm_T> kmon: and I already modified it
[10:02] <toma> i'm pretty sure...
[10:02] <bkjones> no, xinerama will let you do the same thing I'm doing. 
[10:02] <Tonio_> kwwii: just a suggestion, of course ;)
[10:02] <Riddell> well, that's an hour up, I have to go in a sec, any other business?
[10:02] <kwwii> Tonio_: making different color versions will be very easy
[10:02] <Tonio_> Riddell: just a point about emergency bugs :)
[10:02] <kwwii> Tonio_: in the end the bubbles are all on one level with alpha and the bg color is on another
[10:03] <Tonio_> is that possible ?
[10:03] <Hobbsee> Riddell: just more stuff about everything now being far too bright blue
[10:03] <Lure> Riddell: I heard rumors that NM 0.6 was discussed on developers meeting. true?
[10:03] <kwwii> so theoretically we could just use the grey mapped pic and colorize it in kde
[10:03] <Riddell> Tonio_: go
[10:03] <Tonio_> we still have no idea of what to do with kdeprint, and my patch on kicker systelapplet creates an issue
[10:03] <Riddell> Tonio_: patch on kicker?
[10:03] <Tonio_> Riddell: the systemapplet, using system:/
[10:04] <Riddell> Tonio_: in the worst case for kdeprint well include a CUPS 1.1 package
[10:04] <Tonio_> Riddell: works nice, but causes the "system" button in konq sidebar to fail loadingh
[10:04] <Riddell> Tonio_: what's that issue again?
[10:04] <Tonio_> I couldn't find the reason, so coder needed
[10:04] <kwwii> if we did it with a grey scale pic, we could even include three or four kde themes with different colors for everything
[10:05] <Tonio_> Riddell: but it works nice for the systemapplet itseft
[10:05] <Riddell> Tonio_: I suggest discussing with ervin on #kde-devel
[10:05] <raphink> Riddell: I'd think cups should not get these messages on the error output
[10:05] <toma> maybe explaining the whole issue?
[10:05] <Tonio_> Riddell: I will thanks :)
[10:05] <Tonio_> raphink: +1
[10:05] <Hobbsee> kwwii: that'd be cool
[10:05] <Tonio_> this is what the gnome-cups-manager does
[10:05] <Tonio_> the error message appears, but only in the standard output
[10:06] <Riddell> Lure: yes, keybuk did mention n-m 0.6, if that goes in we should package knetworkmanager toot sweet and get it working
[10:06] <raphink> no the gnome-cups-manager just ignores the message
[10:06] <toma> Tonio_: what are you trying to do?
[10:06] <Tonio_> toma : concerning systemapplet ?
[10:06] <raphink> the best option would be to shut the message up in cups
[10:06] <Riddell> Hobbsee: talk to kwwii :)
[10:06] <Lure> Riddell: I do not this we should go with old cups due to error message
[10:06] <toma> yes
[10:06] <toma> Tonio_: yes
[10:06] <Hobbsee> will do
[10:06] <Lure> Riddell: great news
[10:06] <Tonio_> toma: the dault usage of "syste:/home causes many issues, so I patched it to use $HOME instead
[10:06] <Tm_T> ok, thanks for your time, I go to sleep, good night ->
[10:07] <Tonio_> toma: works nice, but now the system componant of konqsidebar fails loading
[10:07] <Tonio_> and I don't figure why
[10:07] <Riddell> anyone want to write minutes from this meeting?
[10:07] <Tonio_> kwwii: in fact I was talking about a "bicolor" theme
[10:07] <Tonio_> instead of several "monocolor" ones ;)
[10:07] <toma> Tonio_: would it be better to fix the apps?
[10:08] <Tonio_> like you did with suse for example ;) nice mix of blue and green
[10:08] <Tonio_> toma: fix the apps ?
[10:08] <Tonio_> toma: can you imagin how many fixes to provide ?
[10:08] <Tonio_> ;)
[10:08] <raphink> +1 for green
[10:08] <toma> Tonio_: what kind of troubles are there with apps?
[10:08] <raphink> well contrary of suse I would say
[10:08] <raphink> blue being main color and green completing the picture
[10:09] <Tonio_> toma: about all applications are copying files in tmp before execution
[10:09] <Tonio_> like kate, kaffeine etc........
[10:09] <kwwii> Tonio: bicolor, for accesability you mean
[10:09] <Tonio_> toma: that's a PAIN when using files more than 60 megs
[10:09] <kwwii> I am done working on green
[10:09] <kwwii> :-)
[10:09] <raphink> lol
[10:09] <toma> Tonio_: yes, but i think that that is the problem to be solved, not changing system:/home's behaviour
[10:10] <kwwii> ahhhh, now I get it
[10:10] <Tonio_> kwwii: just using 2 colors because it is a bit nicer that basing everything on one only in my view :)
[10:10] <allee> Tonio_: afaiu this is not done by apps by what ever does   %f interpretation in .desktop files
[10:10] <Tonio_> toma: I don't feel the need of that system:/home feature
[10:10] <Lure> toma: how - as too many aps consider system:/ as remote
[10:10] <kwwii> Tonio_: I understand now
[10:10] <Tonio_> except making the address bar nice, what does it brings ? only problems
[10:11] <allee> Exec=whatever %f    # everything other than file:// url are copied and then passed to app
[10:11] <raphink> kwwii: I think having a bit of green woiuld be nice
[10:11] <Tonio_> allee: so patching .desktop files could do the job ????????
[10:11] <toma> Lure: a call to mostlocal() from kio would solve that, but that is only for kde apps
[10:11] <kwwii> Tonio_: it is really hard to work out a theme like that which is changeable in any way. Once it looks good you normally cannot change anything without messing it up
[10:11] <toma> that would convert system:/home/bla to /home/toma/bla
[10:11] <kwwii> raphink: yeah, I was just kidding about the green
[10:11] <allee> Tonio_: no :(  %u  will pass all kinds of URLs
[10:12] <Riddell> toma: so that's what kaffeine needs to do
[10:12] <raphink> kwwii: hehe ;)
[10:12] <toma> Riddell: exactly
[10:12] <Riddell> but wouldn't solve the problem for openoffice
[10:12] <Tonio_> Riddell: and ANY gnome app ;)
[10:12] <Tonio_> gimp causes problem
[10:12] <Riddell> yes
[10:12] <Tonio_> firefox too
[10:12] <kmon> One issue I had with using the default system:/ behaviour in the location was that I could compress files with ark
[10:12] <allee> Tonio_: IMHO system: home: etc should be converted to /path/to/file and then passed to the app.
[10:12] <Tonio_> kwwii: yes I can understand that 
[10:13] <kmon> s/could/couln't
[10:13] <allee> Tonio_: obviously not all of KDE core can handle system: home:
[10:13] <Tonio_> allee: yes but well........
[10:13] <toma> ok, is that passsed to the app via the cli or how does the system:/home comes into OOo?
[10:13] <Riddell> toma: yes, passed as an argument when it starts
[10:13] <toma> the same issue is there for media:/sda1 for usb sticks
[10:14] <toma> so you keep on patching things
[10:14] <Lure> allee: can the conversion be done by the process doing Exec from .desktop?
[10:14] <Tonio_> really that change in the systemapplet only brings problems
[10:14] <allee> Lure: yes, that was my understanding
[10:14] <Tonio_> not one intersting feature at least......
[10:14] <toma> i can provide a executable which converts it, if that helps
[10:15] <Tonio_> toma: and what about widely used gnome apps, like gimp ?
[10:16] <kwwii> if I make the wallpaper much ligher it would be easy to get away with using a very light green theme for the default konqi startpage
[10:16] <toma> Tonio_: what do you mean? It can never be called from the cli with a system:/home parameter
[10:16] <toma> that will never work
[10:16] <toma> so it has to be converted before
[10:16] <Tonio_> toma: what about when you're browsing the system with system:/home
[10:17] <Tonio_> and double click an image to open it with gimp ?
[10:17] <Tonio_> that crashes........
[10:17] <Tonio_> that's why the idea has been to make usage of $HOME
[10:17] <toma> right, but the same goes todocuments located at media:/sda1 
[10:17] <Tonio_> witch works in *any* cases
[10:18] <toma> allee: that would be fun you mean ;-)
[10:18] <Tonio_> toma: yes that's another issue
[10:18] <toma> Tonio_: i would prefer 'localizing' the parameter, but i dont have a solution....
[10:19] <Tonio_> toma: that's the problem
[10:19] <Tonio_> and my patch doesn't work as nicelly as it should
[10:19] <allee> Tonio_: if we can find that does the URL -> %f conversion, we could add your code to preprocess to file://
[10:20] <Tonio_> so waiting for a better solution, correcting my patch for the system:/home part would be nice ;)
[10:20] <Lure> Tonio_, toma: which process handles %f - this one could do translation on-the-fly
[10:20] <Tonio_> allee: indeed yes
[10:21] <allee> toma: isn't this an attractive challange :)
[10:21] <toma> messy ;-)
[10:21] <Lure> allee: I am a bit suprised this is not a concern in general KDE community
[10:21] <Lure> or is system:/ Kubuntu specific?
[10:22] <toma> no
[10:22] <allee> Lure: no KDE in general
[10:22] <Lure> then let's kill system: ;-)
[10:22] <allee> Lure: KDE devels are aware of the problem AFAIK, but the korrect solution needs KDE 4
[10:23] <toma> yes, i fundamentally agree that system:/home is evil.
[10:23] <Lure> toma: there is also system:/users...
[10:23] <toma> someone goes into a terminal and assumes /home =system:/home
[10:24] <Lure> and home:/
[10:24] <Lure> I kind of think this is against usability goal of Kubuntu
[10:25] <toma> hmm, you can wonder what system:/ adds at all
[10:26] <Riddell> toma: I think it's so that the Up button works as expected
[10:26] <toma> ;-)
[10:27] <toma> what dfunctionality would you loose if we did not compile system-kio?
[10:28] <Riddell> the system applet on kicker for one
[10:28] <kwwii> ouch, you need that
[10:29] <Riddell> so no minute taker?
[10:29] <kwwii> either that or an icon for all of that through hal on the desktop
[10:29] <kwwii> Riddell: my wife was amazed at the quality of your minute taking abilities
[10:29] <allee> media:, system:, home: whatever is kind of useful in knoqueror and save*dialogs, but evil as soon as passed via K*Process like classes to outside kdelibs core
[10:29] <kwwii> my wife seemed to have spent a good deal of time googling for your name
[10:30] <sladen> kwwii: Riddell is a well practised Quaker at such things :)
[10:30] <Riddell> kwwii: to make sure I won't be a bad infuence on you?
[10:31] <kwwii> Riddell: I think so...you passed her test
[10:31] <allee> toma: system:, home: and media: collect infos distributed in a tree to a flat view
[10:31] <Riddell> sladen: not today I'm not, or I'd have them all done by now
[10:31] <kwwii> I didn't come home drinking any more or less than I did before :-)
[10:31] <Riddell> so end of meeting?
[10:31] <allee> e.g, / and /media/whaever (and /var or /usr/local etc)
[10:32] <allee> Riddell: yes :)
[10:32] <Riddell> thanks all, carry on discussions on #kubuntu-devel
[10:32] <raphink> k
[11:03] <Seveas> @reload webcal
[11:03] <Seveas> @topic
[11:03] <Seveas> very well, no crashing
[11:24] <Seveas> Mr-Petah, please turn of away messages in this channel
[11:38] <Seveas> hi
[11:38] <Burgwork> Seveas, there
[11:38] <Seveas> what is your timezone?
[11:38] <Burgwork> UTC -8 (-7 during DST)
[11:38] <Seveas> what's the name of it?
[11:38] <Seveas> America/...
[11:38] <Burgwork> Pacific Standard Time
[11:38] <Seveas> @schedule PST
[11:38] <Burgwork> and Pacific Daylight Time (-7)
[11:39] <Seveas> dang, PST is not the correct abbreviation
[11:39] <Burgwork> what is this about?
[11:39] <Seveas> just I feature of Ubugtu i just completed and want to show off ;)
[11:39] <Seveas> anyway, let's try another one
[11:39] <Seveas> @schedule US/Michigan
[11:39] <Ubugtu> Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 22 Mar 07:00: Edubuntu | 23 Mar 15:00: Dapper Development Status | 28 Mar 15:00: Technical Board | 29 Mar 07:00: Edubuntu | 29 Mar 21:00: Dapper Development Status
[11:40] <Seveas> (local time!)
[11:40] <Burgwork> @schedule US/Pacific
[11:40] <Ubugtu> Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 22 Mar 04:00: Edubuntu | 23 Mar 12:00: Dapper Development Status | 28 Mar 12:00: Technical Board | 29 Mar 04:00: Edubuntu | 29 Mar 18:00: Dapper Development Status
[11:40] <Burgwork> very cool
[11:40] <Seveas> quite useful I'd say
[11:40] <Burgwork> @schedule US/Mountain
[11:40] <Ubugtu> Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 22 Mar 05:00: Edubuntu | 23 Mar 13:00: Dapper Development Status | 28 Mar 13:00: Technical Board | 29 Mar 05:00: Edubuntu | 29 Mar 19:00: Dapper Development Status
[11:40] <Seveas> now just to make it not reply in public ;)
[11:41] <Kinnison> well, if you had to /msg ubugtu ubuntu-meeting schedule US/Mountain
[11:41] <Kinnison> that'd be better
[11:41] <Kinnison> in-channel commands suck
[11:41] <Seveas> true
[11:41] <Burgwork> does it deal with daylight savings time?'
[11:41] <Seveas> it should
[11:41] <Kinnison> otherwise there'll be people saying @blarghle and nothing will be said back
[11:41] <Seveas> but stub would know for sure (I'm using his pytz lib)
[11:43] <Burgwork> one way to find out is to change the date on teh server temporarily
[11:45] <Seveas> I'm using the fridge - ehich outputs UTC
[11:45] <Seveas> (ubugtu manages the topic too)
[11:53] <Seveas> @schedule Jamaic
[11:53] <Seveas> @schedule Jamaica
[11:53] <Ubugtu> Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 22 Mar 07:00: Edubuntu | 23 Mar 15:00: Dapper Development Status | 28 Mar 15:00: Technical Board | 29 Mar 07:00: Edubuntu | 29 Mar 21:00: Dapper Development Status
[11:54] <Seveas> very, well, works with private messages too (/msg Ubugtu schedule timezone)