[02:18] <iGotNoTime> is there any Xen work being done by the (ed)(k)ubuntu teams?
[07:31] <highvoltage> hi ogra 
[07:32] <highvoltage> ogra: what do you think about stories like this: http://linux.slashdot.org/linux/06/03/16/1954251.shtml
[07:32] <Burgundavia> highvoltage: ugh
[07:32] <highvoltage> Burgundavia: my sentiments exactly :)
[07:33] <highvoltage> Burgundavia: they had a big thing in the tectonic magazine about how 'cool' automatix is :/
[07:34] <Burgundavia> silc wrote a similar script
[07:34] <Burgundavia> there is a need
[07:34] <Burgundavia> in fact, the silc script basically did the same thing as automatix
[07:53] <JaneW> highvoltage: ping
[07:53] <highvoltage> JaneW: pongo
[07:54] <JaneW> highvoltage: I am here today btw... in case you have nice shiny stuff to show me :) (or new music for my MP3 player - or what have you... )
[07:54] <JaneW> pongo is an ex collegue of mine :) (named after a gorilla in a joke)
[08:01] <highvoltage> :)
[08:01] <highvoltage> JaneW: will you still be here at 13:00? i have a a meeting that's more or less the whole morning
[08:05] <JaneW> highvoltage: yes till after 16:00 
[08:53] <sivang> howdy folks
[08:55] <highvoltage> howdy!
[12:03] <highvoltage> strange. i've bought my computer from home to work today, and the exact noises that my computer make, makes me feel more at home
[12:45] <JaneW> highvoltage: GEEK
[01:12] <highvoltage> JaneW: :)
[01:42] <JaneW> thanks highvoltage :)
[01:44] <ogra> what do you guys think of dropping firefox in favor of epiphany ? 
[01:44] <ogra> it could probably gain us a lot of space
[01:44] <highvoltage> JaneW: np
[01:44] <highvoltage> ogra: i actually considered it yesterday :)
[01:45] <JaneW> ogra: er can we do that?
[01:45] <ogra> i'll try to get that running ...
[01:45] <JaneW> and should we?
[01:45] <highvoltage> ogra: i personally think it would be a good idea, although firefox has a huge following
[01:45] <JaneW> it goes against ubuntu default
[01:45] <highvoltage> ogra: it does support flash, JRE, etc, right?
[01:45] <ogra> JaneW, there is no difference in functionallity
[01:45] <ogra> yep
[01:45] <highvoltage> how much space does it save?
[01:46] <ogra> the space we'd save is not through dropping firefox, but through dropping the ff translations
[01:46] <highvoltage> ogra: then drop evolution too, while you're at it :)
[01:46] <ogra> in favor of what ? 
[01:46] <ogra> i see no valid replacement ...
[01:47] <highvoltage> is thunderbird not smaller than evolution?
[01:47] <JaneW> highvoltage: NO
[01:47] <ogra> nope
[01:47] <highvoltage> although that goes against ubuntu again :/
[01:47] <JaneW> you'd lose me as a user
[01:47] <ogra> and waaay bigger on the CD
[01:47] <highvoltage> ok :)
[01:47] <ogra> the mozilla products all have extra language packages
[01:47] <highvoltage> most schools i've seen doesn't use an e-mail client
[01:47] <ogra> these eat a lot of space
[01:48] <highvoltage> they just use web interfaces
[01:48] <ogra> the epiphany translations for example are contained in the gnome language packs anyway
[01:49] <ogra> i'll change the seeds and do some tests the next days to figure what we'd really gain through a switch ...
[01:49] <ogra> if its significant, i'd go for dropping ff
[01:49] <highvoltage> ogra: i was just talking to jane, could we also replace that folder icon on the edutainment menu to something else?
[01:50] <ogra> sure, i'll have to make some icon theme related stuff anyway to get the logo into the menu
[01:50] <ogra> got an icon for me that fits there ?= 
[01:50] <JaneW> ogra: yay thanks
[01:51] <JaneW> ogra: a school/education related thing would be nice
[01:51] <highvoltage> ogra: more or less, JaneW made some suggestions, i'll get you one before the end of the weekend
[01:51] <ogra> i fear we wont be able to change the "about ubuntu" text in the menu
[01:51] <ogra> its not configurable ...
[01:51] <highvoltage> ogra: we have that chalkboardy pic we can scale down, and jane also suggested an apple
[01:51] <ogra> and probably to late for a patch 
[01:51] <ogra> an apple ? 
[01:52] <ogra> only if they dont sue us then ;)
[01:52] <highvoltage> ogra: it looks 'educationally'
[01:52] <highvoltage> ogra: lol
[01:52] <highvoltage> ogra: well, there *will* be a PPC version ;)
[01:52] <ogra> heh
[01:52] <ogra> even one for intel macs by the looks of it
[01:53] <highvoltage> ogra: the default firefox/epiphany page, I think it would be nice if it matched the Edubuntu website with regards to theming
[01:53] <ogra> yep
[01:53] <highvoltage> ogra: would we be able to do that? it might cost +/- 300KB
[01:53] <ogra> but thats stuff we can still change after apr 20th ... 
[01:53] <ogra> there is no hurry for artwork stuff now that the schedule is longe
[01:53] <highvoltage> nice, so is it definate that the release is postponed? i missed a bit.
[01:53] <ogra> r
[01:53] <ogra> yep
[01:54] <ogra> was decided on wednesday
[01:54] <JaneW> highvoltage: this too lame? http://webclipart.about.com/od/special/l/blgrad1.htm
[01:54] <ogra> license ? 
[01:55] <highvoltage> JaneW: the license won't work for us: http://webclipart.about.com/library/weekly/blterms.htm
[01:55] <JaneW> blah! :/
[01:55] <ogra> and we had the discussion about the hat already i think ...
[01:56] <ogra> doing something with the chalkboard would be fine ...
[01:58] <JaneW> ogra: what happened to the idea of an edubuntu DVD?
[02:00] <ogra> we have one ... since breezy
[02:04] <highvoltage> this is a kde icon, i think gpl licensed: http://www.jonathancarter.co.za/files/edu.png
[02:36] <ogra> lol
[02:37] <ogra> i was thinking about starting to use tomboy and keep a phrase collection for copy paste ;)
[02:38] <highvoltage> :)
[02:39] <JaneW> highvoltage: i like that icon!
[02:40] <highvoltage> JaneW: kewl
[02:40] <JaneW> ogra: sorry...
[02:40] <JaneW> highvoltage: the ogra-bot is a good idea +++
[02:41] <highvoltage> JaneW: when i get my bandwidth at home back, i'll add the bot to the channel and call it edubuntugirl
[02:41] <highvoltage> :)
[02:41] <JaneW> heh
[03:06] <guim> hi all
[03:06] <guim> just a question, to anyone who can answer
[03:06] <guim> is there a way top get edubuntu CD's (just like ubuntu) to distribute?
[03:07] <ogra> its planned for dapper to have a limited amount on shipit.ubuntu.com 
[03:07] <ogra> but not 100% agreed yet
[03:07] <guim> in the context of our project : Claroline we organise an event (http://accu.claroline.net) I thought about giving some to the people there 
[03:07] <guim> oh ok ogra
[03:08] <ogra> we dont have it for breezy, sorry ...
[03:11] <guim> our event is on 22 and 23 of may
[03:11] <guim> so this is possible with dapper for us
[03:11] <guim> and even quiet nice, as we would diffuse a recent version
[03:12] <ogra> dapper will release on june 1st ...
[03:12] <guim> dapper EDUbuntu ?
[03:12] <ogra> dapper 
[03:12] <guim> ok, bad luck for us then
[03:12] <ogra> all dapper variants ...
[03:12] <guim> i was misconfusing date of release of ubuntu with edubunth
[03:13] <guim> all?
[03:13] <ogra> yes
[03:13] <guim> ok the date was changed recently
[03:13] <ogra> yep
[03:13] <guim> ok
[03:13] <ogra> agreed on on wednesday 
[03:13] <guim> bad luck for us: we could have given this CD to about 100 persons (we hope!) from educationnal contexts
[03:14] <ogra> :(
[03:18] <guim> I'll ask Mark Shuttleworth to change the date for us, so that we could get the cd's on time :)
[03:18] <guim> sur he could do that
[03:18] <JaneW> guim: good luck wuth that!
[03:18] <guim> ;-)
[03:20] <ogra> heh
[03:30] <highvoltage> ogra: s/shipit.ubuntu.com/shipit.edubuntu.org :)
[03:30] <highvoltage> (from what i've heard)
[03:30] <ogra> really o_O 
[03:30] <ogra> WOW
[03:33] <highvoltage> bye edubuntero's. have a good weekend!
[03:33] <guim> oh...
[03:33] <guim> I was about to ask him , what did he mean with shipit.edubuntu.org? is that really planned?
[03:33] <ogra> seems like 
[03:34] <guim> nice
[03:34] <ogra> :)
[04:16] <iGotNoTime> Hello friends :)
[05:11] <seanh> Hello! Quick question, I'm running Ubuntu, if I install the package edubuntu-desktop, can I then choose between Ubuntu and Edubuntu at login?
[05:11] <ogra> nope
[05:11] <seanh> d'oh!
[05:12] <ogra> edubuntu-desktop makes a edubuntu desktop of your ubuntu-desktop ...
[05:12] <seanh> So I need to install it as a seperate OS, with its own partitions and everything?
[05:12] <seanh> well, good job I asked U suppose
[05:13] <ogra> you *can* install edubuntu-desktop, have a second account and undo the artwork changes for this user ...
[05:13] <ogra> but there is no way to select between ubuntu/edubuntu on login ... edubuntu modifies the system defaults
[05:14] <seanh> ok... so basically edubuntu will bring in a bunch of education-related packages, and will alter system defaults relating to artwork?
[05:14] <ogra> for the -desktop part, yes 
[05:16] <seanh> and the server and live packages?
[05:16] <ogra> the live package only contains liveCD specific stuff 
[05:16] <ogra> nothing you should install on a running system
[05:17] <ogra> and the -server package depends on the server parts of edubuntu 
[05:18] <seanh> What server stuff does edubuntu do? Is it a thin-client thing?
[05:18] <ogra> yep
[05:18] <ogra> ltsp and schooltool ...
[05:19] <ogra> but note that the setup thats done by the edubuntu installer will have to be done manually if you want to use it on top of  astandard ubuntu
[05:19] <seanh> Right.... so schooltool is a like a school-wide calendering tool that you can access from anywhere in the school network?
[05:20] <ogra> yep
[05:20] <seanh> I was just curious about installing it on my Ubuntu machine to take a look at it, not to actually setup a network with it
[05:20] <ogra> then -desktop is all you want 
[05:21] <seanh> Right... except it'll mess with my ubuntu settings, so it might just leave it until I can install Edunbuntu directly somewhere
[05:22] <ogra> i meeses with the system defaults, not your user settings ;)
[05:22] <seanh> Do you know how many people are working on Edubuntu, roughly? Has it been deployed anywhere? I saw photos of a test deployment or something on the website
[05:22] <ogra> and uninstalling edubuntu-artwork and edubuntu-artwork-usplash will revert the settings changes
[05:22] <seanh> Oh I see, so my current user will be untouched, that might be okay
[05:23] <ogra> there is a bunch of people working on edubuntu, distro develpment is mainly done by me ...
[05:25] <seanh> and it has sponsorship from Ubuntu?
[05:25] <ogra> yep
[05:25] <ogra> rather from canonical ...
[05:26] <ogra> and there are several running setups of edubuntu in schools out there already ...
[05:26] <ogra> (to answer the deployment question :) )
[05:27] <seanh> How has the feedback from schools been?
[05:27] <ogra> where we get it, its mostly positive ...
[05:28] <seanh> Where in the world has it been deployed? I guess it's mostly places that want to use cheap hardware and free software?
[05:31] <ogra> we have users in curacao, vanuatu, tuvalu, tobago, chile, the netherlands, brazil and germany that i know of ...
[05:31] <ogra> oh, and norway, spain i forgot ...
[05:31] <ogra> and indeed the uk
[05:32] <seanh> the UK? Huh. That's where I am. Interesting.
[05:32] <ogra> i'm not really aware of the french community, they have theor own forums and mailing lists
[05:33] <seanh> The French community?
[05:33] <ogra> yeah, there is a edubuntu-fr team ...
[05:34] <ogra> they did a derivative of the ubuntu liveCD with edubuntu-desktop and some extra software on top
[05:35] <seanh> ok
[05:36] <seanh> I might be interested in developing on/for edubuntu. I'm in the first year of a PhD in there area of Advanced Interactive Learning Environments. So far I'm supposed to be doing something to do with interactive educational stories, specifically with immersive navigable environments, like a 3D game, network multiplayer roleplay
[05:37] <ogra> cool
[05:37] <seanh> I'm at the stage of putting together a proposal for my project... it'd be cool if I could make it something that would be useful to edubuntu
[05:38] <ogra> absolutely :)
[05:40] <seanh> Well.... I mean, I have written quite a lot of stuff, been at it for over 6 months, but I'm still totally thrashing around trying to find something that I really want to do. It'd be good I think to coordinate a bit with edubuntu people, so I can actually create my project to fill some need edubuntu has or to be useful for edubuntu
[05:41] <ogra> start by subscribing to the edubuntu-devel mailing list ;)
[05:41] <ogra> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/edubuntu-devel
[05:42] <ogra> there are users, teachers and developers that can probably help you finding out whats required 
[05:42] <seanh> Ok
[05:43] <seanh> So far I have been looking at doing something with FLOSS 3D games technology and storytelling, i.e. immersive, interactive 3D stories, I don't see any 3D games being considered for edubuntu yet though, and I could be amenable to moving away from that
[05:44] <ogra> the thing is that our main target is a ltsp classroom server, running GL apps ofer ltsp is painful ...
[05:44] <ogra> *over
[05:45] <ogra> thats why we dont have many GL things in the default install 
[05:45] <seanh> right... I can imagine
[05:45] <ogra> (nou need direct hardware access for the app to get all advantages out of GL)
[05:45] <ogra> *you
[05:46] <seanh> So with ltsp... do the client machines even have hard drives? Are they actually running edubuntu? Or are they simply passing input to the server, receiving output, and displaying it?
[05:46] <ogra> the lattre 
[05:46] <ogra> no harddrives ...
[05:47] <iGotNoTime> ogra I have an semi-advanced question :)
[05:47] <iGotNoTime> I want to see my TOP on my dedicated boxes
[05:47] <iGotNoTime> but....
[05:47] <ogra> they are booting from the net, start an x server and a loginmanager ... the loginmanager then logs you in to a desktop session on the server
[05:47] <iGotNoTime> can I see those stats as a graphical chart in any way form my home?
[05:47] <iGotNoTime> maybe a widget or something can do that?
[05:48] <iGotNoTime> not trying to interrupt, any reply is fine at any time :)
[05:48] <ogra> iGotNoTime, not yet ... but that would be a good add on feature for student-control-panel ...
[05:48] <seanh> Right, so the login manager and X Server run on the clients, the session and any apps launched etc. run on the server
[05:48] <ogra> yep
[05:49] <iGotNoTime> ogra where do I post suggestion?
[05:49] <ogra> the clients are just like display/keayboard/mouse anhancers of the server
[05:49] <iGotNoTime> ubuntu forum?
[05:49] <ogra> iGotNoTime, https://wiki.edubuntu.org/TeachersPet
[05:51] <seanh> Is it one server per school? One server per classroom? Depends on the situation?
[05:51] <ogra> the latter ...
[05:52] <seanh> It seems if you had any OpenGL app, it'd need to run on the server, and you'd want a fast machine. But 3D games can be useful in education, so you'd want to support that
[05:52] <ogra> no, you need to run it on the client
[05:52] <ogra> the app will need direct access to the graphics hardware
[05:53] <iGotNoTime> ok now more technical question now.... again no rush on reply :)
[05:53] <iGotNoTime> I want to edit a user's group, and I open group and find the user it says :  joshua:x:1000:
[05:54] <iGotNoTime> I know root is not suggested and I am not going to do just want the knowledge
[05:54] <ogra> dont use an editor to work on such files
[05:54] <ogra> use either the gui or commandline tools for it ...
[05:54] <iGotNoTime> all I would have to do is change it to joshua:x:1000:root correct?
[05:54] <iGotNoTime> yes using nano I mean
[05:54] <iGotNoTime> I am trying to work on my dedicated box now ;)
[05:55] <iGotNoTime> I want the user to have full access to all files via SFTP using a windows ftp client
[05:55] <ogra> the superuser group is "admin" in ubuntu ...
[05:55] <ogra> (the user with uid 1000 is in there by default)
[05:55] <iGotNoTime> but I mean adding the group name at the end is sufficient?
[05:56] <ogra> yep
[05:56] <ogra> but dont use an editor
[05:56] <iGotNoTime> so on the dedicated box joshua:x:1000:ftp would then allow that user to login with FTP?
[05:56] <ogra> adduser joshus ftp 
[05:56] <ogra> joshua
[05:56] <iGotNoTime> wow :)
[05:56] <iGotNoTime> CLI is getting easier everyday :)
[05:57] <ogra> i think vsftp leats users in that can log in anyway, no need for an extra group
[05:57] <iGotNoTime> WS_FTP gives the SFTP option, but they need to be in a proper usergroup for the chmod rights
[05:58] <iGotNoTime> that is why I am interested in how to edit the user's groups
[05:58] <iGotNoTime> ogra, thanks for the help again :)
[05:58] <ogra> :)
[05:58] <iGotNoTime> ogra, what country are you in?
[05:58] <ogra> germany
[05:58] <iGotNoTime> :)
[05:59] <seanh> HOw come edubuntu-desktop depends on pyopengl?
[05:59] <ogra> it depends on nearly every python dependency we have ...
[05:59] <ogra> thats inherited from ubuntu
[06:00] <ogra> the python stuff doesnt take much space
[06:00] <seanh> ubuntu doesn't depend on python-opengl though. Maybe one of the edubuntu games uses it
[06:00] <ogra> and python is our committed development language
[06:01] <ogra> might be a dep of pygame or so
[06:01] <ogra> brb
[06:01] <seanh> So... if I install edubuntu-desktop right now, my user will be untouched (except for a pile of apps added to the menu), but when I create a new user I will get an edubuntu user? Then I can create ubuntu users again if I remove edubuntu-art and -usplash?
[06:35] <C-O-L-T-AWAY> Seveas: ?
[06:35] <Seveas> C-O-L-T-AWAY, ?
[06:36] <C-O-L-T-AWAY> Seveas: If I install dapper flight 5 I will be able to update to the final release?
[06:36] <Seveas> sure
[06:36] <Seveas> just regularly apt-get upgrade
[06:36] <C-O-L-T-AWAY> Seveas: ok, and how stable is flight 5?
[06:36] <Seveas> very
[06:37] <C-O-L-T-AWAY> Seveas: for everyday use like internet, music, chat is it ok?
[06:37] <Seveas> yeah, I use it for much more than that
[06:38] <C-O-L-T-AWAY> Seveas: cool, and contains gnome 2.14 right?
[06:38] <Seveas> yup
[06:39] <C-O-L-T-AWAY> Seveas: really cool. Thanks for the info. I am downloading flight 5 that is why I am asking these things
[06:40] <C-O-L-T-AWAY> Seveas: thanks again
[06:40] <Seveas> np
[06:43] <iGotNoTime> usergroups is to Group as users is to ?
[06:43] <iGotNoTime> fill in the blank :)
[06:43] <iGotNoTime> I want to see all the users not the groups
[06:48] <iGotNoTime> ok another good question :) I logged the new user into FTP...
[06:48] <iGotNoTime> he is in the proper groups
[06:48] <iGotNoTime> but the folder he needs access to has a different user that owns
[06:48] <iGotNoTime> same group though
[06:48] <iGotNoTime> I want this one user to have access to all domains for FTP uploading
[06:48] <iGotNoTime> the problem is all domains have different user names but in the same FTP group
[06:49] <iGotNoTime> any suggestions?
[06:58] <mikearthur> man
[06:58] <mikearthur> I'm tempted to just break into the school I was doing experience in today and install edubuntu on all the machines
[07:45] <iGotNoTime> wanna be tempted more mikearthur ? look at the screenshot of the teachers computer http://www.redianet.com/img/pantallazo2.gif
[07:47] <ogra> thats not edubuntu 
[07:48] <ogra> its a suggestion for teachers pet ...
[07:50] <iGotNoTime> OHHHHHHH!!!!
[07:50] <iGotNoTime> MY BAD
[07:50] <iGotNoTime> I am so sorry for misleading
[07:51] <iGotNoTime> I thought that was a package for edubuntu :)
[07:51] <highvoltage> i don't think anyone was mislead, that was clearly a windows screenshot ;)
[07:51] <iGotNoTime> * ducks back embarassed
[07:53] <highvoltage> :)
[11:04] <iGotNoTime> hope nobody has technical question :(
[11:04] <iGotNoTime> LOL
[11:10] <iGotNoTime> Ohhh god no LOL
[11:10] <iGotNoTime> sorry girl didn't see your name :) You are plenty capable :)
[11:10] <iGotNoTime> I only noticed that ogra and highvoltage were both gone :)
[11:10] <iGotNoTime> they are the one's who answer my noob questions :P
[11:18] <HedgeMage> I'm just being a smart aleck :)
[11:19] <iGotNoTime> :)
[11:19] <iGotNoTime> me too :)
[11:23] <HedgeMage> how is your day going?
[11:23] <iGotNoTime> excellent :)
[11:23] <iGotNoTime> learning soooo much
[11:24] <iGotNoTime> I only have Linux now because it is easier to SSH into our dediacted server. SQL editing is easier than in XP too. But now I am starting to really enjoy the OS more than XP!
[11:24] <iGotNoTime> so finding this out today, I just feel happy that ogra convinced me to install :)
[11:24] <iGotNoTime> how long have you run this?
[11:25] <HedgeMage> I've been using Linux since 1995, was introduced to debian (the distro ubuntu was based of of) in 2000, and tried ubuntu for the first time last year :)
[11:26] <iGotNoTime> has excellent ratings on distrowatch :)
[11:26] <iGotNoTime> looks like the hottest distro now
[11:26] <HedgeMage> I've been really impressed with ubuntu.
[11:27] <iGotNoTime> I have tried linux on and off since '97, around '03 started trying it for 6 months at time
[11:27] <iGotNoTime> so I think 9 years is enough testing to finally convert LOL
[11:27] <HedgeMage> I was (once upon a time) very active in the debian-edu project, but left due to social politics.  I'm lurking around edubuntu to get a feel for the community and possibly start contributing.
[11:27] <HedgeMage> hehe :) ep
[11:27] <HedgeMage> yep even
[11:28] <iGotNoTime> I only wish I would have stuck with it more, I know nothing of using CLI
[11:28] <iGotNoTime> people get angry when I ask for a GUI
[11:28] <iGotNoTime> not here, but Linux gurus in general
[11:28] <iGotNoTime> here is very ver friendly community
[11:30] <HedgeMage> GUIs can be nice, especially for new users.  OTOH, they make it harder to give accurate instructions... for example "type 'iwconfig ath0 essid MyNetwork'" is a lot quicker and easier via irc than "look for an icon on your taskbar that looks like two computer monitors..." followed by four more steps
[11:31] <HedgeMage> ubuntu is *very* gui-oriented, so people are more friendly to that sort of thing here
[11:31] <HedgeMage> don't ask for a gui in Slackware or Gentoo... they won't want to spend the extra time when they could help four people with CLI in the same time
[11:31] <iGotNoTime> yes, I am slowly learning that CLI can be much faster
[11:31] <iGotNoTime> it's just a memory thing :(
[11:31] <HedgeMage> cheat sheets are your friend :)
[11:32] <HedgeMage> My first Linux book, from back in 1995, had a great cheat-sheet in it that I *still* photocopy for people on occassion.
[11:33] <iGotNoTime> That is a great idea!
[11:33] <iGotNoTime> I never would have thought of the same tools I used @ Uni!
[11:33] <HedgeMage> :)
[11:33] <iGotNoTime> I am googling some now :)
[11:34] <iGotNoTime> thank you
[11:34] <HedgeMage> You are most welcome!
[11:34] <HedgeMage> I used mine constantly for the first 6 or 8 months, then it began to slowly taper off
[11:35] <HedgeMage> (I started with with no GUI at all, so I *had* to learn!)
[11:35] <iGotNoTime> hehe