[01:25] <Lure> networkmanager packagase are now available: http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=832212
[01:25] <Lure> They just work on my ipw2200 (with latest driver)
[01:25] <Lure> (just in case if somebody else would like to play with it)
[05:11] <Erlang> hello, anyone running Dapper having a bit of time to test something with me?
[05:12] <freeflying> Erlang: which one 
[05:14] <Erlang> bug 34983.  I need somebody to confirm my system isn't is a silly state.
[05:14] <Ubugtu> malone bug 34983 in arts "arts cannot work with esd" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/34983
[05:18] <freeflying> Erlang: can reproduce
[05:20] <Erlang> woo! -_-
[05:20] <Erlang> been hunting that one all evening... I'm pumped... must relax.
[05:22] <Erlang> ty freeflying 
[05:23] <freeflying> Erlang: heh
[06:39] <seaLne> am i correct in thinking bug #28331 can be closed as we are beyond that?
[06:39] <Ubugtu> malone bug 28331 in k3b "k3b: new changes from Debian require merging" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/28331
[06:40] <Hobbsee> seaLne: i'd assume so, yes
[07:07] <seaLne> is /sbin supposed to be in a users path? i don't think so? Bug #35131
[07:07] <Ubugtu> malone bug 35131 in Ubuntu "Kubuntu Dapper Flight CD5: KWifiManager not found iwlist" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/35131
[07:18] <robotgeek> adept is scaring me
[07:18] <robotgeek> what does (break) upgrade mean
[07:20] <seaLne> wher?
[07:20] <seaLne> where?
[07:21] <Hobbsee> robotgeek: means that some packages will break, or be added?
[07:21] <robotgeek> seaLne: i opened up adept (dapper) and it said kdebase (break) upgrade
[07:22] <robotgeek> okay, it doesn't distupgrade kdebase , so i assume that adept knows what it is telling you
[07:30] <seaLne> ah, not seen that
[07:51] <mornfall> robotgeek: what's scary about adept? :)
[07:51] <mornfall> Hobbsee: ...
[07:51] <mornfall> Hobbsee: i don't trust it either :-))
[07:51] <robotgeek> mornfall: it said break in red :)
[07:52] <Hobbsee> mornfall: hehe - i just dont like seeing exactly what it's going to add/remove/break
[07:52] <mornfall> robotgeek: that's when package would break by the selected actions
[07:52] <Hobbsee> if it says "break", then i darn well want to know if it's going to break, aka remove all of kde, or just break by removing an obsolete package
[07:52] <robotgeek> mornfall: maybe BREAK needs to be in caps :)
[07:52] <mornfall> robotgeek: isn't it?
[07:52] <mornfall> robotgeek: i thought i made it so
[07:52] <mornfall> it's also bright red
[07:52] <mornfall> fairly hard to miss
[07:53] <robotgeek> yes. now i know
[07:53] <mornfall> i think apply will also not work
[07:53] <robotgeek> luckily i said "okay, don't break my system"
[07:54] <mornfall> robotgeek: i don't think it would let you... but i'm not sure either ;-)
[07:55] <robotgeek> mornfall: cool, i'll try it on someone else's computer :)
[08:20] <mornfall> --> office
[08:20] <mornfall> laters
[09:09] <seaLne> grr lost my place in bugs list when konq crashed :(
[10:16] <Tm_T> moin
[10:23] <freeflying> Tm_T: hi
[10:25] <Tm_T> eh?
[10:25] <Tm_T> you didn't knew it before?
[10:26] <seaLne> what would you call the menu bar down the side of kontact with the component icons?
[10:27] <robotgeek> complicated
[10:27] <Tm_T> seaLne: wait
[10:27] <robotgeek> sorry, i need coffee
[10:27] <Hobbsee> Tm_T: nope
[10:28] <Tm_T> seaLne: component menu
[10:28] <seaLne> ta
[10:28] <Tm_T> seaLne: or component sidebar
[10:29] <Tm_T> if that's what you're looking for
[11:14] <seaLne> what package should installer related stuff be assigned to?
[11:18] <Lure> seaLne: BTW - good work on bugs
[11:25] <viviersf> seaLne, frontend or backend ?
[11:26] <seaLne> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/kubuntu-meta/+bug/32543 for example
[11:26] <Ubugtu> malone bug 32543 in kubuntu-meta kubuntu-live "Dapper F4 - Wrong cd ejects upon shutdown" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  
[12:09] <Hobbsee> ack.  found another bug.
[12:10] <Riddell> seaLne: debian-installer?
[12:10] <Hobbsee> nope, not reproducable.  good :)
[12:27] <raphink> anyone has feedback for my fix on k3b ?
[12:28] <raphink> (just to be sure it works fine for everyone)
[12:30] <ubijtsa2> raphink: seen that the zeroconf issue been fixed ? :)
[12:31] <raphink> ubijtsa2: could you test if you get k3bsetup working in k3b ?
[12:31] <raphink> going to advanced config
[12:35] <ubijtsa2> raphink: one mom
[12:36] <ubijtsa2> it asks for password, then it chews cpu for a bit, then nothing
[12:37] <ubijtsa2> I am up2date as of utc0730 today
[12:38] <raphink> ubijtsa2: yes i've got only one mom too
[12:38] <ubijtsa2> raphink: *lol*
[12:39] <ubijtsa2> raphink: k3bsetup don't work is the answer
[12:41] <raphink> :(
[12:41] <raphink> weird
[12:41] <raphink> I don't get it
[12:41] <raphink> kcmshell is a mess
[12:42] <raphink> I still don't get how to tell it to refresh te modules
[12:42] <raphink> or how it gets the modules
[12:42] <raphink> ubijtsa2: are you up-to-date with today's version?
[12:44] <ubijtsa2> yes
[12:44] <ubijtsa2> I just ran an update, and there were no k3b fixes in there
[12:44] <raphink> hmm
[12:44] <raphink> so you have ubuntu3 ?
[12:45] <ubijtsa2> of k3b ?
[12:45] <ubijtsa2> 0.12.14-0ubuntu3
[12:45] <ubijtsa2> same for the lib
[12:45] <raphink> ok
[12:46] <Lure> raphink: have you seen note from mbiebl in KubuntuPowersave about libsysfs.la?
[12:46] <raphink> yes but haven't read yet
[12:46] <Lure> I plan to try this in the evening (busy-work-day currently)
[12:48] <raphink> seems there is something I missed with k3bsetup
[12:49] <raphink> it seems having the desktop file in /usr/share/applnk/Settings/System doesn't work
[12:49] <raphink> it has to be in /usr/share/applications/kde
[12:49] <raphink> only
[12:50] <Tm_T> ok, weekend off, see you all in 56h ->
[12:51] <Hobbsee> bye Tm_T 
[12:52] <raphink> Riddell: do you know a command to refresh the modules list for kcmshell?
[12:53] <Riddell> kbuildsycoca?
[12:53] <raphink> hmm
[12:53] <raphink> doesn't seem to work
[12:54] <raphink> hmmm
[12:54] <raphink> ok thanks Riddell I'll try 
[12:58] <raphink> ok Riddell seems the X-KDE-settings-something is mandatory to have the module work with kcmshell :(
[12:58] <Riddell> really?  that's curious
[01:00] <raphink> yes it is
[01:00] <raphink> when I remove it it doesn't work
[01:00] <raphink> :(
[01:00] <raphink> I've been testing for a few hours now
[01:00] <raphink> activating things, movingthings around
[01:00] <raphink> and this seems to be the factor that activates it or not
[01:03] <Riddell> hmm yes, I confirm
[01:03] <Riddell> so add back that X-KDE-settings foo and we'll edit systemsettings' menu to not show it
[01:07] <raphink> well I'm trying that
[01:07] <raphink> trying to figure out how to remove it from systemsettings
[01:07] <raphink> oonce it's set
[01:07] <raphink> so playing around with the X-KDE-settings-* foo
[01:07] <Riddell> use an <exclude> I think it is
[01:07] <raphink> yes that's what I did
[01:09] <raphink> where should it go (apart from deactivating it) ?
[01:10] <raphink> maybe in hardware
[01:10] <raphink> what do you think?
[01:11] <Riddell> well where does it appear?
[01:11] <sebas> \
[01:11] <sebas> -+
[01:11] <Riddell> add the Exclude to that surely
[01:12] <raphink> it appears where I want it to appear ;)
[01:12] <raphink> if I use X-KDE-settings-system then it appears in System
[01:12] <raphink> taht's what I used at first
[01:16] <Riddell> bah, Exclude doesn't want to work
[01:17] <raphink> indeed
[01:17] <raphink> i've been fighting with it 
[01:17] <raphink> this system is a mess :(
[01:17] <raphink> an option might be to keep k3bsetup in systemsettings
[01:17] <raphink> but not in the root
[01:17] <raphink> to put it somewhere deep inside ;)
[01:18] <raphink> although I don't see how actually
[01:19] <raphink> hmmm
[01:58] <Riddell> seaLne: https://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/35125 is no a kubuntu bug, probably debian-installer is a good place for it
[01:58] <Ubugtu> malone bug 35125 in kubuntu-meta "Dap. F5: lvm forces reboot" [Major,Unconfirmed]  
[02:03] <ubijtsa2> hmmm..?
[02:05] <ubijtsa2> normal install with lvm works as intended though in F5, tested that this morning
[02:31] <raphink> Riddell: what do I do with k3bsetup ?
[02:31] <raphink> i.e. what is worse ? having it in systemsettings or not having it at all ?
[02:32] <raphink> hehe
[02:33] <Riddell> there must be a way to get system settings to ignore it
[02:33] <Riddell> the XDG menu stuff is spooky voodoo
[02:34] <raphink> hehe
[02:34] <raphink> well the Exclude section doesn't work atm
[02:34] <raphink> I'd be fine to revert my change so k3bsetup works, then add k3bsetup2.desktop to the Exclude and then "all" we have to do is fix this ;)
[02:36] <raphink> what do you think Riddell?
[02:37] <Riddell> fix change to k3bsetup
[02:37] <Riddell> then we'll worry about system settings
[02:38] <raphink> ok
[02:38] <raphink> so I just revert to yesterday's patch
[02:38] <raphink> lol
[02:38] <raphink> or shall I put it in another section while I'm there?
[02:38] <raphink> I wonder if there can't be an invisible section ...
[02:38] <raphink> like a section that exists for kcmshell
[02:38] <raphink> but is not used by systemsettings
[02:39] <Riddell> but for example the theme manager is excluded without problems
[02:39] <raphink> let me see
[02:40] <Riddell> you're not going mad, I did try to add it to exluces and it didn't work for me either
[02:40] <raphink> yes I know
[02:41] <raphink> do you think it might be because the desktop file is not in /usr/share/applications/kde like the other ones?
[02:41] <Riddell> that's possible
[02:41] <raphink> I really doubt so, but well this is so weird that I just wonder 
[02:41] <raphink> I'll try that
[02:42] <raphink> hmm 
[02:42] <raphink> doesn't seem to work
[02:45] <raphink> Riddell: my guess is that this systemsettings.menu doesn't control the settings...
[02:45] <raphink> I've tried to modify it somehow
[02:45] <raphink> likke for example
[02:46] <raphink> add <Filename>userconfig.desktop</Filename> to the Accessibility menu section
[02:46] <raphink> just to see if it would add the userconfig module
[02:46] <raphink> and it doesn't
[02:46] <Riddell> I got it to do something by moving the system category into the hardware menu
[02:46] <Riddell> that moves all the system ones
[02:47] <raphink> hmmm
[02:47] <raphink> let's see
[02:48] <raphink> ok
[02:48] <raphink> now what seems to not work are the Filename tags
[02:49] <jjesse> who was it in the meeting yesterday that was going to help on flight wiki entries?
[02:50] <Riddell> jjesse: bkjones
[02:51] <raphink> there Riddell!!
[02:51] <raphink> got it
[02:51] <raphink> it's not the exact filename that it wants
[02:51] <raphink> it wants kde-k3bsetup2.desktop instead of k3bsetup.desktop
[02:52] <raphink> you just have to add k3b-  before it
[02:52] <raphink> as for the kvaio and others
[02:52] <raphink> so just <Filename>kde-k3bsetup2.desktop</Filename> in the system section exlude and it works :)
[02:53] <raphink> Riddell: can you confirm ? I'll apply these changes if you confirm
[02:54] <Riddell> yes, confirmed
[02:54] <Riddell> how insane
[02:54] <Riddell> seaLne: bah
[02:54] <Riddell> seaLne: but thanks a lot :)
[02:54] <raphink> Riddell: ok so I'll apply the changes to k3b and systemsettings is that ok?
[02:54] <Riddell> raphink: yes please
[02:55] <raphink> ok :)
[03:04] <glatzor> Hi could anybody help me integrating the documentation of update-manager into the KDE?
[03:05] <Riddell> glatzor: what documentation is that?
[03:05] <glatzor> I would like to start khelpcenter with the ghelp uri of the manual.
[03:05] <raphink> Riddell: everything should work now :)
[03:06] <glatzor> Riddell: it is a normal xml documentation registered in scrollkeeper
[03:08] <nlindblad> afternoon people
[03:08] <Riddell> glatzor: that's a general question of how to integrate gnome help stuff into khelpcentre, I don't know if that's possible
[03:09] <nlindblad> the Swedish KDE translations were done but there's only a single translator in the team
[03:09] <glatzor> Riddell: khelpcenter does support scrollkeeper and the documentation can be accessed using the treeview of khelpcenter
[03:09] <Riddell> nlindblad: in KDE SVN?
[03:10] <nlindblad> Riddell: hang on
[03:10] <glatzor> but I don't know the correct URI to open the corresponding document in khelpcenter
[03:10] <nlindblad> http://i18n.kde.org/teams/infos.php?teamcode=sv
[03:10] <glatzor> khelpcenter ghelp:update-manager does not work. 
[03:11] <glatzor> Riddell: if i use ghelp:FULLPATH the formatings of the document are not respected
[03:11] <nlindblad> Riddell: From that page: "Last update: 2004/02/27 23:41:36"
[03:11] <Riddell> http://i18n.kde.org/stats/gui/trunk/sv/  how embarracing, that's better than en_GB
[03:12] <glatzor> Riddell: Kubuntu makes use of update-manager? I haven't used kubuntu yet
[03:12] <nlindblad> Riddell: could that dating be correct?
[03:12] <nlindblad> Riddell: or is it the SVN dates I should look at?
[03:12] <Riddell> nlindblad: yes, it just means the team details havn't changed since then
[03:13] <Riddell> glatzor: interesting
[03:13] <glatzor> Riddell: I am searching a solution for this for years now. :)
[03:13] <nlindblad> Riddell: okey
[03:13] <Riddell> glatzor: we have our own updating tool
[03:13] <nlindblad> Riddell: doesn't look like he'd need the help
[03:13] <glatzor> Riddell: I once tried to do the same for synaptic.
[03:14] <glatzor> Riddell: so kbuntu would no be bothered by update-manager using gnome-vfs or a even deeper update-manager integration in the gnome-desktop?
[03:15] <jjesse> glatzor: we use adept and adet-updater to keep thngs updated
[03:16] <mornfall> hmm?
[03:16] <mornfall> what's with synaptic
[03:16] <Riddell> ghelp:/usr/share/gnome/help/synaptic/C/synaptic.xml should be the path
[03:17] <Riddell> glatzor: no, that wouldn't be a problem
[03:17] <glatzor> mornfall: i would like to show the help of update-manager or synaptic in the khelpcenter
[03:17] <mornfall> aha
[03:17] <mornfall> not my domain
[03:17] <Riddell> glatzor: well synaptic works for me
[03:17] <glatzor> mornfall: mine, too :)
[03:18] <glatzor> Riddell: synaptic includes a html version of the help
[03:18] <Riddell> aah
[03:18] <glatzor> this was a workaround
[03:18] <nlindblad> Riddell: but all translators might not be in that list, right? Since the coordinator does the actual commiting to SVN
[03:19] <Riddell> glatzor: well maybe that's just what needs done
[03:19] <Riddell> glatzor: I don't really know how the ghelp ioslave works
[03:20] <Riddell> possibly someone in #kde-docs knows but I suspect not
[03:20] <Riddell> probably only cornelius or whoever wrote it knows
[03:20] <Riddell> help systems are spooky voodoo.  a bit liek XDG menus :)
[04:22] <nlindblad> how come the progress on the Swedish an Danish translations are so good compared to other translations?
[04:23] <nlindblad> even en_GB! (as stated before)
[04:23] <seaLne> someone cared
[04:23] <nlindblad> seaLne: still a few apps not translated
[04:23] <nlindblad> like Adept
[04:23] <mornfall> hmm
[04:23] <nlindblad> amaroK too
[04:24] <mornfall> adept shouldn't be too hard to translate
[04:24] <mornfall> it would also help to have it translated to get reports of what's missing i18n() markers ;)
[04:26] <seaLne> Bug #1869 dosen't sound logical
[04:26] <Ubugtu> malone bug 1869 in kubuntu-meta "Cannot mount an existing partition" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/1869
[04:26] <Riddell> nlindblad: if you did want to translate adept that would be handy
[04:27] <Riddell> seaLne: ask him for the command he's using to mount with and the exact error message
[04:27] <Riddell> output of sudo fdisk -l  would also be useful
[04:27] <seaLne> yeah was going
[04:42] <jjesse> mornfall: i spent a large amount of time while i was watching the NCAA basketball tournment working on the adept guide.  hopefully i'll have a draft rewrite done by the ned of the weekend
[04:43] <bkjones> hi all. 
[04:44] <mornfall> jjesse: cool... is the work somewhere online? (if no, let me know when it is so i can skim through it)
[04:44] <bkjones> I'm curious as to whether there's a GUI utility that comes with [k] ubuntu that will let me tell my machine to use LDAP (or any other mech) for authentication? 
[04:44] <jjesse> mornfall: not yet, there is an old version in the doc team svn so i'm working on changing all of it, ill let you know when it is online
[04:45] <mornfall> jjesse: okey, thanks
[04:54] <seaLne> bkjones: unfortunatly not that i know of atm
[04:55] <bkjones> thanks, seaLne
[04:56] <seaLne> you should be able to find some online guides to doing this manually tho
[04:56] <bkjones> I know how to do it manually - just thought it'd be nice to have. :)
[04:56] <seaLne> ah
[04:56] <bkjones> ...and quicker... and less error-prone
[04:57] <bkjones> I'd like to be able to tell my users "just click here and fill this in and your linux box can use the LDAP server too" 
[04:57] <seaLne> yeah it would be a nice option to have in the installer like solaris does
[04:57] <bkjones> yeah, in the installer would be good too. 
[04:58] <bkjones> I think I'd rather have it available separate from the installer though. 
[04:58] <bkjones> or in addition to.,
[04:59] <seaLne> in addition would definitly be good
[04:59] <seaLne> it would be quite complex to do tho
[04:59] <bkjones> I don't see why (at least as a standalone app)
[04:59] <bkjones> I'm not a coder, but I've written lots of perl/LDAP code. LDAP coding isn't hard. 
[05:01] <bkjones> hm. I guess this is what drove windows toward a registry... tough to reliably make config changes to plain text files. 
[05:01] <bkjones> ...Not that it helped them much...
[05:02] <bkjones> but in this case, the files would be overwritten, kinda like printcap is in some distros (all distros?) 
[05:03] <bkjones> maybe this is a good first project for me to hone my coding skillz. I've never written a standalone gui app that I can remember. 
[05:04] <mornfall> being a sysadmin is not illness
[05:04] <mornfall> :-)
[05:04] <bkjones> :)
[05:06] <bkjones> --> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0596100825/sr=8-1/qid=1142611534/ref=pd_bbs_1/002-2753700-5752003?%5Fencoding=UTF8
[05:07] <mornfall> bkjones: nice :-)
[05:07] <mornfall> i like the cover
[05:07] <bkjones> thanks. I didn't design it, but still :-)
[05:08] <seaLne> does vimpart no longer exist (#4771)?
[05:08] <mornfall> seaLne: vimpart was always broken
[05:09] <mornfall> i'm not surprized if someone decided to make an end to it
[05:09] <seaLne> i have vimpart on sarge but not dapper
[05:09] <mornfall> seaLne: try kyzis instead
[05:09] <seaLne> its a bug, not me wanting to use it
[05:10] <mornfall> seaLne: tell the reporter to try kyzis instead (but i don't think it's packaged)
[05:10] <mornfall> it's not in debian even
[05:11] <mornfall> (consult yzis.org)
[05:13] <robotgeek> mornfall: i compiled it yesterday
[05:13] <mornfall> robotgeek: how is it in practice?
[05:13] <mornfall> i'd hope better than vimpart
[05:14] <robotgeek> mornfall: i was basically hoping for kmail integration, but kmail does not support qtexteditor. 
[05:14] <robotgeek> i will try kdevelop later
[05:14] <mornfall> robotgeek: oh, no news, that
[05:14] <mornfall> robotgeek: there was a patch floating around for that
[05:14] <mornfall> ages ago
[05:15] <mornfall> it probably doesn't work anymore
[05:15] <robotgeek> mornfall: patch for kmail?
[05:15] <mornfall> robotgeek: yes
[05:15] <robotgeek> sweet
[05:16] <robotgeek> http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=59481
[05:18] <mornfall> <30 seconds remaining :-))
[05:18] <mornfall> err
[05:18] <mornfall> damn wrong window
[05:19] <bkjones> anyone else see issues with mplayer, xine, vlc, etc after one of the recent libgcc upgrades in dapper? 
[05:19] <bkjones> I get segfaults, and the strace output seems to point to libgcc. 
[05:21] <mornfall> laters
[05:54] <Riddell> hello Parkotron 
[05:54] <Riddell> _Sime_: great
[05:55] <Parkotron> Hello Riddell.
[05:57] <_Sime_> Riddell: there are still outstanding bugs, but the changelog is getting quite long. I think it is time enough to get it out and get some more testing. (and closing out some bug reports)
[06:03] <Parkotron> _Sime_: Guidance is great stuff. Disk and Filesystems makes it so much easier to help newbs find and configure their partitions. Keep up the good work.
[06:11] <_Sime_> Parkotron: thanks!
[06:12] <_Sime_> Riddell: BTW, on the new kdm theme, it is unclear what the little triangle button (bottom right) does.
[06:12] <_Sime_> Riddell: I honestly expected a drop down menu for some reason.
[06:13] <Parkotron> _Sime_: Are there plans to add a Guidance module for X configuration? I realise that's no small order, but that does seem to fit in with Guidances goals.
[06:14] <Riddell> _Sime_: I wonder if we should move that to be in line with the text fields
[06:16] <Parkotron> Riddell: Really? That'd be super. "I can't set my resolution above 1024x768 even though my monitor supports ####x#### in Windows" is without a doubt the most common beginner question I see on IRC.
[06:17] <Riddell> Parkotron: have your tried dapper?
[06:18] <Parkotron> Riddell: Somewhat. But I haven't updated it for a while.
[06:18] <_Sime_> Riddell: putting the triangle up with the input fields would be better, yes.
[06:18] <Parkotron> Riddell: Is it there and I just haven't noticed?
[06:19] <Riddell> Parkotron: system settings -> hardware -> display  if display has a purple X on it that's the new one
[06:19] <_Sime_> it's like a treasure hunt now, isn't it. :)
[06:19] <_Sime_> Riddell!!!
[06:19] <Riddell> _Sime_: huh?
[06:20] <_Sime_> Riddell: you're wreaking the surprise for Parkotron ;)
[06:21] <Parkotron> Well I'm going to have to reboot to check it out. Thanks for the info. Oh and thanks the hard work.
[06:21] <Riddell> oops :)
[06:25] <_Sime_> when does the syslogd startup?
[06:26] <bkjones> one of the first services at boot time. 
[06:26] <_Sime_> 'coz' when displayconfig-hwprobe.py runs and changes stuff, it logs it with syslog (INFO), but I can never find it in the /var/log
[06:28] <bkjones> well, cat /etc/syslog.conf and grep for "info" and see where it goes. 
[06:29] <bkjones> scratch that. 
[06:29] <bkjones> open it and see, because it might be included with a "*" argument :)
[06:30] <bkjones> also, there have been apps known to log to 'info', but still only log errors unless in debug mode, so be wary ;-)
[06:33] <_Sime_> :-/ ... it appears to work ok, I just don't see messages...
[06:33] <Parkotron> Riddell: I just booted into Dapper, but unfortunately the Display module won't load.
[06:33] <bkjones> then how can you say it's working ok? 
[06:33] <bkjones> lol
[06:33] <bkjones> oh, you mean the app 
[06:34] <bkjones> well, run the app from a command line, or run it in strace and see what's going on. 
[06:34] <_Sime_> Parkotron: probably my fault...
[06:34] <Parkotron> I hadn't install all of kubuntu-desktop, so I'm doing that now to make sure that isn't the problem.
[06:34] <bkjones> you might also try running 'ls -lrt /var/log' right after you start it. 
[06:34] <bkjones> maybe it's not writing where you think. 
[06:34] <Riddell> Parkotron: try upgrading to the latest version of kde-guidance
[06:34] <_Sime_> Parkotron: try again next week. :-/
[06:35] <bkjones> what app is that, _Sime_?
[06:35] <_Sime_> I'll fixed quite a lot of bugs in displayconfig, but they are not yet released.
[06:35] <_Sime_> bkjones: the display kcontrol module
[06:36] <Parkotron> _Sime_: Well, Synaptic is chugging away yet, so I might be able to get the old version working.
[06:36] <Parkotron> Wait! I'm I allowed to mention Synaptic here?
[06:37] <bkjones> _Sime_: I don't get any messages either. 
[06:38] <bkjones> 'cept in Xorg.0.log
[06:38] <_Sime_> Parkotron: it is called adept on this channel
[06:39] <_Sime_> bkjones: I changed displayconfig-hwprobe.py to log at level WARNING, and also to say some when it ran, but still nothing appearred after booting.
[06:39] <bkjones> I really don't like adept for looking for software. 
[06:40] <mornfall> bah
[06:40] <mornfall> what don't you lik
[06:40] <mornfall> e
[06:41] <mornfall> and which version you have
[06:41] <bkjones> oh good lord. Let's not get religious. I just don't like it
[06:41] <bkjones> ;-)
[06:41] <mornfall> oh good lord, i want to know what you don't like
[06:41] <mornfall> i'm not religious, i wrote it
[06:42] <toma> hi all 
[06:42] <bkjones> rofl. Holy crap - sorry mornfall
[06:42] <mornfall> no problem, just tell me what you don't like and all's fine :-)
[06:43] <bkjones> ok, one sec
[06:43] <mornfall> well, let's start with version -- if it's not last dapper, then feedback probably won't help much :)
[06:43] <mornfall> lots of changes
[06:43] <mornfall> since breezy
[06:44] <bkjones> it's version 1.90 Conquest Beta 1
[06:44] <mornfall> right
[06:44] <mornfall> that's dapper
[06:44] <bkjones> right
[06:45] <bkjones> so I guess I'm not coming from a hardcore debian background, so I have no idea what tags are.
[06:45] <bkjones> I don't know if tags are a debian thing or what. 
[06:45] <mornfall> tags are tags
[06:45] <mornfall> tag is a label attached to a package
[06:45] <bkjones> I don't feel this interface is as clean as synaptic for my taste. I don't need all these check boxes and stuff. At least I don't think I do. 
[06:45] <mornfall> drag one and drop it to tags i want
[06:46] <bkjones> but I don't know what tags I want. 
[06:46] <bkjones> Oh wait! 
[06:46] <mornfall> .....
[06:46] <bkjones> so tags look like what synaptic calls "sections"? 
[06:46] <bkjones> but more verbose. 
[06:47] <bkjones> no, that's not right. 
[06:47] <mornfall> it's fairly different from sections
[06:47] <mornfall> here you say what kinds of software you are looking for (and what you are not looking for)
[06:47] <bkjones> yeah, I don't get it. I want that out of my face. Of course, that's just me. Hope you don't mind my opining. 
[06:48] <bkjones> that's what the checkboxes appear to be for, though. 
[06:48] <mornfall> the checkboxes are different view of the software -- if it is installed/notinstalled etc
[06:48] <mornfall> like, you are looking for a text editor
[06:48] <mornfall> you want it to work under x11
[06:49] <mornfall> so you select interface->x11
[06:49] <mornfall> drop to tags i want
[06:49] <bkjones> no way. How did I know to pick that tag? 
[06:49] <Parkotron> mornfall: Does Adept have any orphaned package handling?
[06:49] <mornfall> Parkotron: orphaned package? like autodeinstall unused libs? no
[06:49] <bkjones> and why pick 'interface-x11' when there's an 'x11' listed by itself at the bottom of that list? 
[06:49] <mornfall> bkjones: well, it's the closest to what you want in the "smart" tab
[06:50] <bkjones> oh. I was in the 'all' tab. 
[06:50] <mornfall> bkjones: x11::application (i would argue of usefulness of that too)
[06:50] <mornfall> bkjones: but you can simply ignore it if it doesn't interest you
[06:51] <mornfall> then you see selection of suite (kde, gnome), so say you want kde
[06:51] <bkjones> this seems overly complicated to me. I can get it, but I doubt my mom would ever get this. 
[06:51] <mornfall> bkjones: why would your mom ever use adept (manager)
[06:52] <bkjones> well, isn't ubuntu supposed to be like, the linux desktop solution to kill MS and all that? 
[06:52] <mornfall> (then use::editing)
[06:53] <Riddell> hi incinerator, how was the install days?
[06:53] <incinerator> cool
[06:53] <incinerator> quite a many installs
[06:53] <bkjones> on the one hand, I feel like end users in general should be more educated about the technology they're using. On the other hand, since they don't, an end user of ubuntu shouldn't really have to know what X11 is. 
[06:53] <incinerator> the P&P seminar was very successfull, as well
[06:53] <mornfall> bkjones: let me reiterate... they shouldn't ever need to use adept (manager) at all
[06:53] <mornfall> bkjones: what you think the installer is for?
[06:54] <mornfall> bkjones: (adept installer)
[06:54] <bkjones> I thought it was the kde version of synaptic (effectively)
[06:54] <Riddell> incinerator: cool, wish I could have been there
[06:54] <incinerator> don't worry, seems we'll have to organise a 2nd install day soon
[06:54] <Riddell> incinerator: oh?
[06:54] <mornfall> bkjones: i would like to see your mom if you gave her synaptic and asked her to install something
[06:54] <incinerator> for all the P&P people who are now interested in getting gnu/linux installed onto their boxes
[06:55] <bkjones> mornfall: I did. It went fine. I can try with adept if you want. 
[06:55] <mornfall> bkjones: well, okey... what was the test question?
[06:55] <bkjones> there was no test question. 
[06:55] <bkjones> she wanted to install some games, so I pointed her at synaptic and walked away. 
[06:56] <mornfall> bkjones: that will work better with the installer :-)
[06:56] <bkjones> she found the "games" section by herself and then found burgerspace or whatever it's called. 
[06:56] <mornfall> bkjones: have you seen it?
[06:56] <bkjones> I guess I'm missing something important. 
[06:56] <bkjones> I see "adept" and "adept updater" or whatever. 
[06:56] <mornfall> bkjones: alt+f2 adept_installer (no idea where it's in menu)
[06:57] <bkjones> notifier, updater, and just "adept" 
[06:57] <Riddell> it's not in the menu, the .desktop file had the wrong executable name on the last update
[06:57] <bkjones> can't run it that way - it needs root privs. 
[06:58] <mornfall> bkjones: kdesu adept_installer (sorry)
[06:58] <mornfall> if the desktop was right it'd ask for password
[06:58] <bkjones> ok, running...
[06:58] <mornfall> Riddell: i guess i should make the update this weekend (haven't gotten around last week)
[06:58] <bkjones> well DAMMIT! Why wasn't this in my freakin' menu?!
[06:58] <bkjones> everything BUT that was there! 
[06:59] <mornfall> bkjones: because i didn't get around to make the update ;)
[06:59] <bkjones> that's a bug if you ask me. 
[06:59] <bkjones> oh
[06:59] <bkjones> nevermind :-/
[06:59] <mornfall> bkjones: most apps are gone from menu and intsaller is gonna be called something like Add/Remove Software
[06:59] <bkjones> cool. 
[06:59] <mornfall> updater will be accessible through notifier
[06:59] <bkjones> yeah, mom could use this, methinks. 
[07:00] <Parkotron> mornfall: Just a question. Why is it "adept_installer"? Isn't "adept-installer" far more typical?
[07:00] <mornfall> Parkotron: it was that way before -- but it doesn't work too well in kde
[07:01] <bkjones> some day KDE will get around to switching up the selection of games :-/
[07:01] <mornfall> Parkotron: specifically icons use - to delimit parts (theme+size, section, name)
[07:01] <bkjones> anyone here ever play kreversi? 
[07:01] <mornfall> bkjones: long time ago :)
[07:02] <bkjones> yeah. Seems like things there are backward. The games you *want* to play you have to go *get*, and these lamo ones come preinstalled. 
[07:02] <bkjones> reminds me of winders. 
[07:02] <bkjones> I don't even really play games, but I was just thinking of my mom. :-)
[07:03] <mornfall> bkjones: to new users, they aren't that lame :)
[07:03] <mornfall> bkjones: but they get old fast i guess
[07:03] <bkjones> btw - spelling the name of the game you're knocking off backwards and adding a "k" at the front doesn't count as "creativity". Someone needs to tell the kde team that before they rename themselves "EMONG"
[07:03] <bkjones> ;-P
[07:03] <bkjones> sorry - "KEMONG" 
[07:05] <mornfall> which game would that be? ksirtet?
[07:05] <mornfall> well
[07:05] <mornfall> what would you call it :)
[07:05] <bkjones> yeah, and K<abalone backwards>
[07:05] <_Sime_> mornfall: can you pleeeeeaaaase do something about the big button in adept_installer. It just doesn't look like a button.
[07:06] <mornfall> bkjones: ah :) i never noticed
[07:06] <mornfall> _Sime_: will you drown me in beer if i do?
[07:06] <_Sime_> mornfall: I'll drown you in something if you don't. ;->
[07:07] <mornfall> _Sime_: damn i was hoping you would say yes
[07:07] <mornfall> _Sime_: so i could say no
[07:07] <_Sime_> mornfall: are you in the States?
[07:07] <bkjones> I don't know what I'd call it. "Jonesy's Tetris Clone" maybe. Also uncreative. But if I'm gonna spend the time to create this thing from scratch, I'm not gonna insult the effort I put in by calling it "Ksirtet". Maybe I'm just cranky and need lunch ;-P
[07:07] <mornfall> _Sime_: not at all
[07:08] <_Sime_> mornfall: where?
[07:08] <mornfall> _Sime_: brno, czech republic (central europe)
[07:08] <_Sime_> mornfall: ooh. I thought we were in similar timezones.
[07:09] <mornfall> your irc client ignores me :p
[07:09] <_Sime_> yeah I see that
[07:09] <_Sime_> or the network stopped it.
[07:10] <mornfall> well, if you are in us, it's probably "far away" :)
[07:10] <_Sime_> mornfall: seriously, the installer looks way cool.
[07:10] <_Sime_> mornfall: NL.
[07:10] <mornfall> NL? i only know nl as netherlands sorry :)
[07:11] <_Sime_> mornfall: the only thing that bothers me usability-wise is the button. and that it is not clear that it is a button or what it does.
[07:11] <_Sime_> netherlands
[07:11] <mornfall> okey, then i must confuse somewhere mid-way
[07:12] <mornfall> have confused
[07:12] <mornfall> whatever :)
[07:12] <mornfall> _Sime_: don't worry, i gave up on the button already, will fix it this weekend
[07:12] <mornfall> _Sime_: happy? :)
[07:12] <_Sime_> mornfall: cool, what will replace it?
[07:12] <mornfall> _Sime_: the reason it is as it is is that i am a lazy bastard ;)
[07:12] <_Sime_> smaller button?
[07:12] <mornfall> _Sime_: probably pair of smaller buttons
[07:13] <mornfall> _Sime_: in right corner
[07:13] <_Sime_> smaller button with text:  "3 packages to install, 1 to remove [Go!] "
[07:13] <_Sime_> good.
[07:13] <_Sime_> I'm happier
[07:13] <mornfall> lol
[07:13] <mornfall> i didn't think of that text
[07:13] <Riddell> _Sime_: text on buttons shouldn't change
[07:13] <mornfall> i can think about it :)
[07:13] <mornfall> but yes, Riddell is right
[07:14] <mornfall> the info is in statusbar
[07:14] <Riddell> hvae button "Go" or similar and a label to the left of it "3 packages to install, 1 to remove "
[07:14] <mornfall> in fact
[07:14] <mornfall> nothing much will change
[07:15] <mornfall> probably just a Quit button added and the current button shrunk
[07:15] <mornfall> and a margin around those two
[07:15] <mornfall> we are in feature freeze, so it's too late to do workflow changes
[07:15] <bkjones> so I guess the feature freeze was lifted when dapper was officially postponed? 
[07:15] <bkjones> lol
[07:15] <bkjones> nevermind
[07:16] <mornfall> since workflow changes introduce bugs :)
[07:16] <Parkotron> mornfall: I'd use something more descriptive than "Quit". Maybe "Quit without applying any changes".
[07:16] <mornfall> in case they wouldn't i would engineer some bugs into it so people remember what are freezes good for
[07:16] <_Sime_> Riddell: true, buttons don't change.
[07:17] <mornfall> Parkotron: well, yes, something can be invented, but it can't be too long, people tend to skip over long texts :)
[07:17] <mornfall> Parkotron: also, people already hate me for wide button
[07:18] <Parkotron> mornfall: I'm sure they don't /hate/ you.
[07:18] <_Sime_> Riddell: yes, that was what I was trying to suggest.
[07:18] <mornfall> Parkotron: oh, adept here adept there, what people know me for is that wide button, trust me ;-)
[07:20] <mornfall> dum di dum
[07:20] <Parkotron> mornfall: Well other than the button, good work on adept_installer. I'd never seen it before today. Very user friendly.
[07:20] <mornfall> don't take me seriously
[07:20] <mornfall> i don't see what people have against my kewl ultra-wide button
[07:20] <mornfall> everyone is all wet when a display is ultra-wide
[07:21] <mornfall> like macbook
[07:21] <mornfall> people will shell out thousands of euros to have that ultra-wide toy
[07:21] <mornfall> lame :-)
[07:22] <Parkotron> Maybe you should just drop it back to like 80% width. Then it'd still be super wide, but easier to identify as a button.
[07:24] <_Sime_> kidding, honest.
[07:27] <Parkotron> _Sime_: Just to confirm, the Display module _is_ completely broken on my system. Version 0.6.2-0ubuntu1
[07:28] <_Sime_> Parkotron: I believe you. 
[07:28] <_Sime_> Parkotron: next version.
[07:28] <_Sime_> maybe
[07:29] <Parkotron> _Sime_: Do you happen to have a screenshot somewhere so I can at least get an impression of what it does?
[07:29] <_Sime_> http://www.simonzone.com/software/guidance/
[07:29] <mornfall> :-)
[07:30] <mornfall> oh btw -- if anyone cares (probably not, but i bother you anyway) -- http://lorien.mornfall.net:8012/m/konqueror-minimal.png :)
[07:31] <_Sime_> what is that?
[07:32] <mornfall> screenshot of my desktop :)
[07:33] <mornfall> well, when using konqueror
[07:33] <Parkotron> _Sime_: Thanks for the link. What does one get if one presses the Configure button next to a card or a screen?
[07:38] <_Sime_> Parkotron: you can select your gfx card or monitor from a list.
[07:39] <_Sime_> mornfall: you're not into colour are you? ;)
[07:39] <mornfall> what good would colour do to me :)
[07:40] <mornfall> http://lorien.mornfall.net:8012/m/konsole+kicker.png :-)
[07:41] <raphink> ubijtsa2: can you test k3bsetup gain after dist-upgrading?
[07:41] <mornfall> there's some colour in that
[07:41] <raphink> mornfall: that's ... original
[07:42] <mornfall> raphink: yes, i'm very proud of it -- the kicker pops up when i hit bottom edge :)
[07:42] <mornfall> raphink: i also have menu-on-top ala macosx that pops up when i hit left edge
[07:42] <raphink> hehe
[07:42] <mornfall> ideal for 1024x768 notebook screen :)
[07:44] <bkjones> stupid oss flash plugin sucks. 
[07:44] <raphink> hmmm ok
[07:44] <mornfall> bkjones: just say no to flash
[07:44] <bkjones> yeah, that's becoming a lot like saying no to javascript. 
[07:45] <bkjones> things don't work without it. 
[07:45] <Parkotron> Is it a bug that Konqueror under Kubuntu doesn't use /usr/share/icons/crystalsvg/22x22/actions/kde.png for the throbber?
[07:45] <Parkotron> Instead it's using /usr/share/kubuntu-default-settings/kde-profile/default/share/icons/crystalsvg/22x22/actions/kde.png
[07:46] <Parkotron> Maybe I don't understand what kubuntu-default-settings really is, by I assumed they were only defaults and that you could change them elsewhere.
[07:48] <bkjones> mornfall: how come adept doesn't find some packages that synaptic does? 
[07:49] <bkjones> I picked "any suite", and "show unsupported/proprietary" as well. 
[07:49] <mornfall> bkjones: adept which adept? installer doesn't show everything, just what has .desktop files
[07:49] <bkjones> AH. 
[07:49] <mornfall> bkjones: it's for endusers -- they don't care :)
[07:49] <mornfall> like, libs... what's that :)
[07:49] <bkjones> I see. 
[07:50] <bkjones> got it. 
[07:50] <mornfall> i guess the persona that'd be modelled after you just wouldn't use adept to install things
[07:50] <mornfall> but we still have synaptic :)
[07:51] <bkjones> heh
[07:51] <bkjones> I make an effort *not* to take my job home with me, so that I can still relate a bit to end users on the linux desktop. 
[07:51] <bkjones> it gets me in trouble sometimes. 
[07:52] <bkjones> for the CLI, I like small, simple tools. With gui's I'm the exact oppositte. They're already less efficient -- don't make me launch three apps to figure out which one will find the package I want. 
[07:52] <bkjones> I understand the logic though, 
[07:52] <bkjones> and the marketing of it should work. 
[07:54] <_Sime_> Riddell: ok, 0.6.3 of guidance is up. http://www.simonzone.com/software/guidance/
[07:58] <Tonio__> hello all ;)
[07:59] <jjesse> helo Tonio__
[07:59] <Tonio__> jjesse: ;)
[07:59] <Tonio__> Riddell: just found an interesting feature that might be interesting :)
[07:59] <Tonio__> Riddell: pwmanager rovides kwallet emulation
[08:00] <Tonio__> Riddell: way easier to config, manage, and therefore more powerfull application too :)
[08:01] <Tonio__> Riddell: I'll investigate for a good eventual default config that feets our goals of usabillity
[08:09] <_Sime_> Tonio_: I (found &) fixed the problem you were having with guidance. BTW
[08:10] <Tonio_> _Sime_: greeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaaat ;)
[08:11] <_Sime_> Tonio_: the data that you sent me was key.
[08:11] <Tonio_> _Sime_: nice it helped :)
[08:12] <Tonio_> you all should test that as replacement to kwaller
[08:12] <Tonio_> kwallet
[08:12] <Tonio_> it is way more powerfull, easy to manage, configure etc.........
[08:12] <Tonio_> could be a solution, really, to avoid using that evil kwallet in dapper :)
[08:13] <toma> hmm, whats up with kwallet?
[08:13] <Tonio_> toma: not easy to understand
[08:14] <Tonio_> people get the "default" password to provide everytime session starts
[08:14] <Tonio_> the solution "no password" is working, but most people will not understand it
[08:14] <bkjones> I don't care for kwallet. 
[08:15] <nlindblad> getting internet radio streams to work with amaroK can't be that hard, still I'm confused
[08:15] <toma> o
[08:15] <Tonio_> toma: check pwmanager and you will see the difference
[08:15] <bkjones> I'd have to do tons of reading to figure out wth it's doing. 
[08:15] <toma> Tonio_: does it convert/read kwallet?
[08:15] <Tonio_> it can generate passwords, store them and display them "logically"
[08:15] <Tonio_> toma: no, it emulates kwallet on the system
[08:16] <Tonio_> then when activated, all kwallet capable application do use it instead
[08:16] <Tonio_> and that really works nicelly
[08:16] <nlindblad> amaroK fetches the stations name then is happy
[08:17] <Tonio_> toma: have you tried to use kwallet to store your personnal passwords and things like that ? not speaking about automatic password saving in konq
[08:17] <Tonio_> toma: it is clearly unusable
[08:17] <toma> Tonio_: yes, i use it for years
[08:17] <bkjones> I just fear that I don't fully understand the scope of kwallet. I don't know how far-reaching it is. 
[08:17] <bkjones> so I don't use it. 
[08:17] <Tonio_> toma: honnestly, do you think the gui is "understandable" by a newbie ?
[08:17] <toma> Tonio_: never had any trouble (except a my fault - upgrade which failed)
[08:18] <Tonio_> bkjones: yes and most people are thinking like you
[08:18] <Tonio_> they just don't understand the way it works
[08:18] <toma> a newbie should not have to use a passwordsmanageers gui
[08:18] <Tonio_> toma: install kde-pwmanager
[08:18] <bkjones> yeah, kwallet reminds me a little too much of MS passport. 
[08:18] <Tonio_> activate kwallet emulation in options, and test ;)
[08:18] <Tonio_> you will see the difference
[08:19] <toma> Tonio_: on it.
[08:19] <Tonio_> I can provide a default empty wallet called system with kubuntu-defaulty-settings
[08:19] <Tonio_> and make it's usage completly transparent to the user
[08:19] <Tonio_> kwallet, because of it's stucture, isn't configurable that way, and that actually causes me an issue
[08:20] <bkjones> if kwallet expects me to use it, it should probably have some kind of explanatory/setup thing similar to Fedora's "firstboot" 
[08:21] <bkjones> it would also be nice to have a "kill kwallet forever" button instead of having it bug me every time I enter a password somewhere in kde-land. 
[08:24] <Parkotron> Tonio_: I asked a question about kubuntu-default-settings, but I guess that was before you got here. How does it work?
[08:24] <Tonio_> Parkotron: kde is set to check settings in /usr/share/kubuntu-default-settings in the first place
[08:24] <Tonio_> and then merges it with standard /usr/share settings, while priority is set to the first folder
[08:25] <Tonio_> therefore, when we want to change a setting, we simply have to put the setting in /usr/share/kubuntu-default-settings
[08:25] <Tonio_> and that overwrites the default
[08:25] <Parkotron> Tonio_: So if I remove an entry from kubuntu-default-settings, it'll use /usr/share/icons?
[08:25] <nlindblad> the guide in Ubuntu's Wiki refers to a package named 'libxine-extracodecs'
[08:25] <Tonio_> Parkotron: yes
[08:26] <Tonio_> everything that isn't in k-d-s is read in /usr/share
[08:26] <Tonio_> and rc files are merged, not simply read from k-d-s
[08:26] <Tonio_> when a setting is in two files, the prior is the k-d-s one
[08:26] <Tonio_> nlindblad: yes, that's for MP3 support 
[08:27] <nlindblad> and it's in "universe"?
[08:27] <Tonio_> nlindblad: multiverse
[08:27] <nlindblad> ah, hence the problem finding them
[08:28] <raphink> Riddell: are you there?
[08:30] <Parkotron> Tonio_: Thank you. That all makes much more sense.
[08:31] <Tonio_> Parkotron: your servant
[08:38] <toma> Tonio_: i've now been on several sites, but pwmanager does not log anything
[08:40] <toma> there is no documentation
[08:40] <toma> i give up...
[08:40] <toma> i dont get that app
[08:41] <toma> [20:38:04]  <toma> Tonio__: i've now been on several sites, but pwmanager does not log anything
[08:41] <toma> [20:40:09]  <toma> there is no documentation
[08:41] <toma> [20:40:15]  <toma> i give up...
[08:41] <toma> [20:40:32]  <toma> i dont get that app
[08:41] <Tonio__> toma: let me check
[08:41] <Tonio__> didn't test that part
[08:43] <Tonio_> Riddell: played 30 minutes with wlassistant, works like a charm for me :)
[08:44] <toma> Edit/add password dialog is a bit confusing
[08:45] <Tonio_> toma: works for me
[08:45] <toma> hmm
[08:45] <Tonio_> forms passwords are saved and restored correctly
[08:45] <toma> ok, let me update dapper and switch back to dapper kdelibs before i continue this...
[08:45] <Tonio_> it works *exactly* like kwallet, except more simple and mlore functions ;)
[08:46] <Tonio_> toma: k
[08:46] <Tonio_> toma: thanks for testing ;)
[08:46] <toma> i like the interface, passwords are very hidden and inaccessible in kwallet, here it seems very ok.
[08:47] <nlindblad> was the "Update notifier" introduced with Dapper? (not existing in Breezy)
[08:48] <jjesse> nlindblad: yeah it isn't in dapper
[08:48] <nlindblad> "isn't"?
[08:50] <jjesse> insit in breezy
[08:50] <jjesse> sorry
[08:50] <jjesse> is not in breezy man i can't type
[08:50] <Tonio_> toma: nice to read this ;)
[08:50] <nlindblad> it got introduced in Dapper, and didn't exist in Breezy, right?
[08:50] <Tonio_> toma: could be a good replacement don't you think ?
[08:51] <nlindblad> jjesse: get some caffeine man
[08:51] <toma> Tonio_: yes, if it works ;-)
[08:51] <Tonio_> nlindblad: I package it with dapper ;)
[08:51] <bkjones> update_manager++
[08:51] <Tonio_> toma: needs testing
[08:51] <nlindblad> Tonio_: worth a hug man
[08:51] <jjesse> corret nlindblad, check the release notes on http://doc.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/release-notes/C/index.html
[08:51] <nlindblad> Tonio_: who's developing Adept?
[08:51] <jjesse> mornfall: 
[08:51] <Tonio_> nlindblad: mornfall
[08:52] <nlindblad> I hate to be a git but it's lacking language support
[08:52] <nlindblad> (Swedish)
[08:54] <toma> Tonio_: it will take 1,5h from now to update, so patience.
[08:55] <Tonio_> toma: hehe
[08:55] <nlindblad> it's my native language, don't hesitate to ask me about translating to it in the future
[08:59] <nlindblad> mornfall: is there a .PO for Adept?
[09:01] <Tonio_> toma: it can import kwallet ;)
[09:01] <toma> Tonio_: ah good!
[09:06] <Tonio_> toma: it can export to kwallet too :)
[09:07] <Tonio_> toma: it just has a little default, it does not allow blank passwords
[09:07] <Tonio_> I have to patch for this
[09:08] <toma> Tonio_: no blank passwords seems a good choice
[09:08] <Tonio_> toma: I don't agree
[09:08] <Tonio_> I don't want to open the wallet each time konqueror is launched or kopete is
[09:09] <Tonio_> chmod 600 on the wallet file is enough for desktop usage
[09:09] <Tonio_> so the optionnal "no password allowed" option is, to me, nicer :)
[09:09] <Tonio_> there are lots of complains about kwallet manager for this
[09:10] <Tonio_> lots of people don't know they can put blank passwords, and simply stop using it because of that
[09:11] <toma> are we talking about the master password here?
[09:13] <toma> stupid deep locking on minimize
[09:15] <toma> using the X closes the file instead of minimizing, which is against the KDE usability standards
[09:17] <Tonio_> toma: deep locking can be configured :)
[09:17] <Tonio_> no pb with this
[09:18] <Tonio_> and minimizing vs closing can be configured too
[09:18] <Tonio_> toma: yes I'm talking about the master password
[09:18] <Tonio_> I mean, if the password storage file is chmod 600, I only have access
[09:18] <Tonio_> so what is the problem if there is no password ?
[09:19] <Tonio_> it just avoids me typing a pasword everytime an application starts
[09:19] <Tonio_> which is good
[09:20] <toma> yes, well i agree, but im not sure everyone will
[09:24] <Tonio_> toma: those who don't can add a password to that file
[09:24] <Tonio_> allowing blank passwords is only something "more" you can do
[09:24] <toma> ok
[09:24] <Tonio_> toma: it doesn't remove any option or feature
[09:25] <Tonio_> but as it is not allowed by default, I have to patch ;)
[09:33] <mornfall> nlindblad: should follow normal kde translation process i think
[09:33] <mornfall> nlindblad: so .pot files should be in svn or something
[09:33] <nlindblad> mornfall: okey, I'll have a look
[09:34] <Riddell> raphink: hi
[09:34] <raphink> hi Riddell :)
[09:34] <raphink> how are you doing?
[09:34] <Riddell> rocking
[09:34] <Tonio_> Riddell: hello
[09:34] <raphink> great :)
[09:35] <Riddell> Tonio_: do we get to try wlassistant then
[09:35] <Tonio_> Riddell: I would suggest yes
[09:35] <raphink> Tonio_: how is the patch for pwmanager going?
[09:35] <Tonio_> no pb for me, scanning, connections and disconnections are okay
[09:35] <Tonio_> raphink: needs testing ;)
[09:35] <raphink> k
[09:36] <Tonio_> Riddell: we just had a big discussion about pwmanager
[09:36] <Riddell> remind me again what pwmanager is?
[09:36] <Tonio_> Riddell: it can act as a perfect replacement for kwallet
[09:36] <Tonio_> Riddell: a password manager for kde
[09:36] <Tonio_> Riddell: it can provide kwallet emulation
[09:36] <raphink> it's much better than kwallet I can tell
[09:36] <Tonio_> Riddell: is way easier, better and configurable than kwallet
[09:36] <nlindblad> mornfall: where would I find it, in the /l10n/ directory or in it's own directory
[09:36] <Tonio_> Riddell: it even can import kwallet settings and passwords
[09:37] <Tonio_> and I was thinking about that as a replacement, as kwallet is very criticised by so many people
[09:38] <Tonio_> Riddell: if I can provide a good default config that makes it interract witrh konqueror, kopete etc..... in a transparent way, would you eventually be interested ?
[09:40] <Riddell> what's wrong with kwallet?
[09:40] <Tonio_> Riddell: usability
[09:40] <Tonio_> Riddell: prompts for a password to the default file in any case, and that cannot be configured
[09:41] <Tonio_> Riddell: then people set a password, and get prompted every time a network app is started in a new session
[09:41] <Riddell> I'd be more sceptical since kwallet isn't actually broken whereas kwifimanager is
[09:41] <Tonio_> Riddell: and, well........ gettings passwords from it and use it as a "brain helper" is a pain at least
[09:41] <Riddell> you can set kwallet to not ask for a password, isn't that what we've done?
[09:42] <Tonio_> Riddell: partially
[09:42] <Tonio_> but it doesn't work as it should
[09:42] <Tonio_> the wallet is somehow linked to the computer, hostname or so, I don't know
[09:42] <raphink> kwallet sometimes act strangely I can tell
[09:42] <Tonio_> what was working locally on my machine doesn't work on a new dapper install on another one
[09:43] <mornfall> nlindblad: honestly i don't know... i think Riddell added the pot generation
[09:43] <nlindblad> mornfall: okey, sorry for bothering
[09:43] <Tonio_> and I think pwmanager could be the response to that (although needs lots of tests, I agree on that point)
[09:43] <mornfall> nlindblad: np
[09:43] <mornfall> if i find out i'll let you know
[09:43] <Tonio_> because kwallet "works", so replacing it needs debating and much more tests than wlassistant
[09:43] <nlindblad> mornfall: when I'm done with it (must find it first though), should I send it to one of you guys or go through the leader of the Swedish translator team?
[09:45] <nlindblad> found it
[09:46] <nlindblad> seems to be a Swedish translation, how come Adept doesn't understand that?
[09:49] <mornfall> nlindblad: is it installed?
[09:50] <nlindblad> installed kde-i18n-sv
[09:50] <nlindblad> and the rest of KDE is in Swedish
[09:52] <mornfall> nlindblad: hmm... root as well?
[09:54] <nlindblad> how can I check on root's localization?
[09:58] <nlindblad> root has en_GB
[10:00] <nlindblad> but the locales vanish to defaults all the time
[10:04] <nlindblad> everything being started using a graphical sudo is in English, but all tools in the Control centre is Swedish
[10:04] <nlindblad> *are
[10:12] <Riddell> kjbjd68cgvr7bd56
[10:12] <Riddell> ?k ht
[10:12] <Riddell>  fy xygiopk
[10:12] <Riddell> jhhbhn] #
[10:16] <nlindblad> huu?
[10:16] <toma> looks swedish
[10:16] <nlindblad> it's not :)
[10:16] <toma> then cat-ish
[10:16] <nlindblad> yeah
[10:16] <nlindblad> it's trying to tell us something important!
[10:17] <toma> maybe something about crypted passwords
[10:22] <nlindblad> is there a good VPN-tunnel manager for KDE?
[10:32] <toma> kde-systemsettings can not be found on the french mirror
[10:33] <toma> bah
[10:49] <toma> haha, lol, i wonder what happens when i press 'N':   http://rafb.net/paste/results/FtzzKy80.html
[10:54] <Lure> rraphink: ping
[10:56] <Lure> Riddell: ping
[11:05] <Lure> raphink: hi
[11:05] <raphink> hi Lure
[11:06] <Lure> I can confirm that bug 34871 resolves powersave build
[11:06] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 34871 in cpufrequtils "FTBFS for packages depending on libcpufreq-dev" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/34871
[11:06] <Lure> can you push this requets for rebuild or whomshould we contact?
[11:11] <raphink> hmm wait a min ok Lure?
[11:11] <Lure> raphink: ok
[11:25] <toma> Tonio_: ok, now it saves form data, i'll try it out for a week or so
[11:44] <raphink> Lure: so we just have to request a rebuild ?
[11:44] <Lure> raphink: I think just that 
[11:44] <raphink> ok 
[11:44] <raphink> I can request it
[11:44] <Lure> maybe you should try on your PPC first, just to be sure
[11:45] <Lure> raphink: great
[11:45] <raphink> ok I'll test it
[11:55] <nlindblad> might not be a good thing root's locales are messy
[11:55] <nlindblad> forcing Adept to be in English
[11:55] <nlindblad> might be confusing/frustrating when the rest of the system is in Swedish
[11:56] <nlindblad> and KDE-su isn't localized here either