[12:22] <khanman02> is there any logs of past ubuntu meetings?
[12:22] <Seveas> check the topi
[12:22] <Seveas> c
[12:25] <khanman02> i swear that wasn't there before (j/k lol...)
[05:01] <robitaille> @reload webcal
[05:01] <robitaille> @reload topic
[05:01] <robitaille> @topic
[05:02] <robitaille> @schedule US/Pacific
[05:02] <Ubugtu> Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 17 Mar 13:00: Documentation Team | 22 Mar 04:00: Edubuntu | 23 Mar 12:00: Dapper Development Status | 28 Mar 12:00: Technical Board | 29 Mar 04:00: Edubuntu | 29 Mar 18:00: Dapper Development Status
[05:04] <ajmitch> robitaille: interesting, what timezone formats does it recognise?
[05:05] <robitaille> I'm not sure.  I was looking at logs from the channel a few hours ago when Seveas was playing with it
[05:05] <ajmitch> @schedule NZDT
[05:05] <robitaille> @schedule Jamaica
[05:06] <Ubugtu> Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 17 Mar 16:00: Documentation Team | 22 Mar 07:00: Edubuntu | 23 Mar 15:00: Dapper Development Status | 28 Mar 15:00: Technical Board | 29 Mar 07:00: Edubuntu | 29 Mar 21:00: Dapper Development Status
[05:06] <ajmitch> I guess not
[05:06] <ajmitch> @schedule Pacific/Auckland
[05:06] <Ubugtu> Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 18 Mar 10:00: Documentation Team | 23 Mar 00:00: Edubuntu | 24 Mar 08:00: Dapper Development Status | 29 Mar 08:00: Technical Board | 30 Mar 00:00: Edubuntu | 30 Mar 14:00: Dapper Development Status
[05:06] <ajmitch> that's better
[05:06] <robitaille> I wonder if it loads the fridge schedule automatically, or we have to do it manually
[08:55] <Seveas> ajmitch, all official timezones
[08:57] <ubijtsa> removes confusion over stoopid summertime as well
[08:57] <Seveas> ubijtsa, that's why the topic is in UTC
[08:58] <ubijtsa> yup
[08:58] <ajmitch> Seveas: I was curious since I'd say that NZDT/NZST is official :)
[08:59] <Seveas> it's probably not the official abbreviation
[09:00] <ajmitch> it is afaik
[09:00] <Seveas> @schedule NZ
[09:00] <Ubugtu> Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 18 Mar 10:00: Documentation Team | 23 Mar 00:00: Edubuntu | 24 Mar 08:00: Dapper Development Status | 29 Mar 08:00: Technical Board | 30 Mar 00:00: Edubuntu | 30 Mar 14:00: Dapper Development Status
[09:01] <ajmitch> Fri Mar 17 21:00:56 NZDT 2006
[09:01] <ajmitch> 'date' gives me that
[09:01] <Seveas> hmm
[09:01] <Seveas> Pacific/Auckland
[09:01] <ajmitch> that worked, I tried it earlier
[09:08] <robitaille> Seveas: does your bot  check the fridge automatically, or we have to poke at it after we upgrade the calendar?
[09:08] <Seveas> it updates it's meeting cache every 60 minutes
[09:09] <Seveas> and every minute it checks whether the topic has to be changed
[09:09] <robitaille> impressive
[09:09] <Seveas> not at all
[09:09] <robitaille> we have been replaced by a machine :)
[09:09] <Seveas> pytz and ical libs were found online, all I had to do was glue the bits together
[09:11] <ajmitch> Seveas: it seems happy to ignore my private requests
[09:11] <Seveas> not for me (I just reloaded the module which went wrong the first time, you may have been just at the wrong time)
[12:15] <Zerlinna> Hi there, can someone tell me if the decision about the delay of dapper has already been taken officially? 
[12:17] <mvo> Zerlinna: it is
[12:17] <Zerlinna> mvo: great, is there any site with an official announcement?
[12:18] <juliux> Zerlinna, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperReleaseSchedule
[12:19] <Seveas> Zerlinna, no there is no official announcement ye
[12:19] <Seveas> t
[12:19] <Zerlinna> Seveas: thank you.. because in Germany everybody is already spreading that there would be!
[12:19] <juliux> Seveas, see www.golem.de
[12:19] <Seveas> I know - they should hurry up with the announcement
[12:19] <Seveas> rumours spread insanely fast
[12:20] <mvo> Zerlinna: there will be a anouncement soon 
[12:21] <amu> moin junks
[12:21] <Zerlinna> Seveas: so should we stop them from spreading this or just wait to the real official announcement?
[12:21] <amu> & maedels :)
[12:22] <Seveas> just tell them to wait
[12:22] <juliux> Zerlinna, heise know that they have to wait
[12:22] <juliux> but i dont know why golem dont wait
[12:23] <Zerlinna> juliux: they just point to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperDelayMeetingSummary and it is clearly indicatet that this is NOT an off. ann.
[12:23] <Zerlinna> Seveas: ok so I'll send some emails
[12:23] <Seveas> Zerlinna, please don't
[12:24] <Seveas> don't link to unofficial business
[12:24] <Seveas> just point them to DapperDelayMeetingSummary and tell them to wait
[12:24] <Zerlinna> Seveas: that's what I wanted to do.. 
[12:25] <Seveas> Zerlinna, argh
[12:25] <Seveas> I misread your lines
[12:25] <Zerlinna> Seveas: no prob :-)
[12:31] <Zerlinna> So about when can we expect the official announcement? Will it be on ubuntu.com? 
[12:33] <Seveas> when it's ready and yes
[12:34] <Zerlinna> Seveas: :-) ok
[03:32] <sivang> Seveas: what was the last meetin about?
[03:58] <Seveas> development progress iirc
[04:34] <Seveas> janimo, if you plan your meetings a bit more on time and notify the fridge crew, then Ubugtu can put it in the topic ;)
[04:34] <janimo> Seveas: ok :)
[04:35] <janimo> it may even bust attendance ;)
[04:35] <Seveas> possibly
[04:35] <Seveas> it will be listed on the fridge and here
[04:35] <janimo> boost
[04:36] <janimo> hmm we may just make it regular weekly meeting at the same hour
[04:36] <janimo> we'll decide in todays meeting
[04:36] <Seveas> sounds good
[04:58] <janimo> 2 minutes
[04:58] <Gloubiboulga> hi janimo
[04:58] <janimo> hi gauvain
[04:59] <nomed> hi
[04:59] <nomed> soumyadip ?
[05:01] <janimo> Gloubiboulga: no news on netswitch yet
[05:01] <Gloubiboulga> janimo, nothing new
[05:01] <janimo> btw is it using /etc/n/interfaces or some custom config of its own?
[05:02] <janimo> from the website it seems it aims to be like network manager 
[05:02] <Gloubiboulga> it uses its own config iirc
[05:02] <janimo> ah, hmm it may not be good for main after all if it does not do things the debian way
[05:03] <janimo> shall we wait for soumyadip ?
[05:04] <janimo> let's start then
[05:04] <nomed> janimo, we wait him to discuss localisation issues
[05:04] <janimo> 1) panel plugins
[05:04] <nomed> yep
[05:04] <Gloubiboulga> we can move the 2nd item to the end if he's late imo
[05:04] <Gloubiboulga> ok, just a quick look at those plugins
[05:04] <janimo> the plugins not uploaded so far are those which do not seem to work
[05:04] <janimo> for all of us
[05:05] <janimo> weather and diskperf are in this categpry
[05:05] <Gloubiboulga> except the clipman plugin
[05:05] <janimo> the rest are not yet ported
[05:05] <janimo> I uploaded clipman today :)
[05:05] <Gloubiboulga> ok :)
[05:05] <janimo> dii not update the wiki though
[05:05] <Gloubiboulga> xkb is ready, I can package it quickly
[05:05] <nomed> janimo, Gloubiboulga it's strange that weather works fine here
[05:05] <janimo> Gloubiboulga: cool I just wanted to ask you about it
[05:05] <nomed> was it in breezy ?
[05:06] <janimo> nomed: yes
[05:06] <janimo> it wass buggy though
[05:06] <Gloubiboulga> for all the not-yet-ported plugins, the author are working on them
[05:06] <janimo> I could not change kb layout using it
[05:06] <janimo> Gloubiboulga: great
[05:06] <Gloubiboulga> except lua plugin
[05:06] <janimo> Gloubiboulga: that's irrelevamt to most users
[05:06] <janimo> too techincal
[05:06] <janimo> so not a priority
[05:06] <Gloubiboulga> ok, so we can just forget it I guess
[05:07] <janimo> right, or package it if it gets ported
[05:07] <Gloubiboulga> yep
[05:07] <janimo> prioroty is weather/dsikperf/xkb
[05:07] <janimo> especially xkb for localisation 
[05:07] <janimo> screenshot plugin seems not to be a good idea as upstream said
[05:07] <Gloubiboulga> xkb will soon be packaged :)
[05:07] <janimo> so I may juts make it an executable
[05:08] <janimo> Gloubiboulga: I know, I just wanted to stress that it's the most important plugin issing right now IMO
[05:08] <janimo> Gloubiboulga: I loooked in goodies svn two days ago and saw nothing
[05:08] <Gloubiboulga> ok
[05:08] <janimo> so assumed xkb is no worked on
[05:08] <Gloubiboulga> janimo, the author emailed me this morning that it's ready
[05:09] <janimo> great
[05:09] <janimo> anything else to add for plugins?
[05:09] <janimo> if not 3) archiver
[05:09] <Gloubiboulga> we should remove datetime and xfce4-toys from the archives imo
[05:09] <janimo> Gloubiboulga: datetime is replaced too?
[05:09] <nomed> and add a meta pkge ?
[05:09] <janimo> with toys I agree it is just not easy to remove from the arch
[05:09] <nomed> with all the working plugins ?
[05:09] <janimo> busy admins
[05:10] <Gloubiboulga> janimo, datetime is not working iirc, and there are similar plugins with the panel
[05:10] <janimo> nomed, lets' wait till it's clear which plugins make it to dapper
[05:10] <nomed> k
[05:10] <janimo> I add the plugins one by one to xubunt-desktop so we know explictely what is tested and deemd ok for default install
[05:11] <janimo> Gloubiboulga: ok, there are some other xfce pkgs which need purging from the arch will need to ask for all of them in the same time
[05:11] <Gloubiboulga> ok
[05:11] <janimo> the old 4.2 plugins + toys
[05:11] <janimo> old xfprint xfdesktop if they are still there, xterminal
[05:12] <janimo> old package names which we used in hoary
[05:12] <janimo> 3)archiver
[05:12] <nomed> ok
[05:12] <nomed> the devel is working actively on it during these days
[05:12] <nomed> the release 0.4 will be just when iso support will be fixed
[05:13] <nomed> in the mean time i asked him to use a version control
[05:13] <janimo> you mention thunar plugin for 0.4 to in the wiki
[05:13] <janimo> is that so?
[05:13] <nomed> he's happy with bzr at the end
[05:13] <nomed> yep
[05:13] <janimo> good
[05:13] <janimo> so will he take care of integrating the plugin? I did not look at it
[05:13] <nomed> he'll add an --extract opt
[05:13] <nomed> and he will work on thunar plugin then
[05:13] <janimo> oh but we do the thunar bits right?
[05:13] <janimo> ok
[05:13] <nomed> then ..
[05:14] <nomed> i think we should pkge it from bzr
[05:14] <nomed> help him on solving issues
[05:14] <janimo> ok
[05:14] <janimo> I agree
[05:14] <nomed> then 0.4 should be ready for dapper
[05:14] <janimo> we still have to test if it is stable, does not eat data
[05:14] <janimo> and this kind of stuff
[05:14] <nomed> janimo, he sent me new two patches
[05:14] <janimo> since it is a potentially destructive app 
[05:15] <nomed> now it should be mostly bug free
[05:15] <janimo> nomed, let's wait for bzr if he promised Monday
[05:15] <nomed> the known bugs are gone
[05:15] <janimo> which were they btw?
[05:15] <nomed> i'll have a gmail chat session with him
[05:15] <nomed> i'll help him on that
[05:15] <nomed> i'll mail you when ready
[05:15] <janimo> ok
[05:15] <janimo>  I just noticed the png not found warnig at start
[05:15] <nomed> janimo, adding files to an archive
[05:16] <nomed> for the 2 3 times
[05:16] <nomed> had some issues
[05:16] <nomed> not anymore
[05:16] <Gloubiboulga> janimo, netswitch author has just confirmed, he doesn't use /etc/network/interfaces
[05:16] <janimo> hmm, it would have been better if he released now so we can test and then fix the iso handling :)
[05:16] <janimo> Gloubiboulga: thanks
[05:17] <janimo> hmm, I would have preferred to be an equivalent of gnome-net-setting without gnome libs instead of a whole new
[05:17] <nomed> janimo, k i'll ask for it
[05:17] <janimo> incompatible way :)
[05:17] <nomed> i think a 0.3.1 or something like that should be a problem for hi
[05:17] <nomed> m
[05:17] <janimo> 0.3.1 is the last AFAIK
[05:17] <janimo> 4) Dapper Look
[05:17] <janimo> our weak point ;)
[05:17] <nomed> hehehe
[05:18] <janimo> it's good we have 6 more weeks
[05:18] <nomed> the dapper-look chan is not really active
[05:18] <nomed> anymore
[05:18] <janimo> to wait for soemone to do the artwork :)
[05:18] <nomed> but that guy told me he had something ready
[05:18] <janimo> maybe even upstream releases 4.4 by then
[05:18] <nomed> i was not on irc during the week end
[05:18] <nomed> i hope to meet him soon
[05:19] <janimo> but once we have ISOs I think there's going to be more contributions in this area for sure
[05:19] <janimo> which leads us to 5)
[05:19] <janimo> ISO images
[05:19] <Gloubiboulga> is there something scheduled for this ?
[05:19] <janimo> they are approved but still blocked
[05:19] <janimo> appreved to be supported by canonical so they can go to main
[05:20] <nomed> janimo, we should have it soon
[05:20] <janimo> which is what I thogh was the case so far but was not apparently
[05:20] <nomed> i think we should fix something in capser for xubuntu
[05:20] <nomed> casper
[05:20] <janimo> so we need the pakcages in main than they can build CD-s there are more people doing that now besides Colin Watson
[05:20] <janimo> nomed: what?
[05:20] <nomed> janimo, will xubuntu have even a livecd ?
[05:21] <janimo> nomed, I sure hope so
[05:21] <janimo> and an espresso installer
[05:21] <nomed> it's possible we should fix something on them
[05:21] <nomed> casper and espresso
[05:21] <janimo> what exaclty ?do you know something specific or wondering
[05:22] <janimo> espresso shoulf be gtk only
[05:22] <nomed> i've seen casper has some scripts for gnome stuff ..
[05:22] <nomed> i need to take a deeper look on that ..
[05:22] <nomed> but there are gnome specific scripts
[05:22] <janimo> I hope it just looks ate the livecd seed and does the right thing
[05:22] <nomed> and maybe xfce needs some too
[05:22] <janimo> since it works for kde I think it's not gnome dependent
[05:23] <janimo> as soon as we start doing install cd-s I'll take a closer look to the live seeds
[05:23] <janimo> I did not pay much attention to them
[05:23] <janimo> only to the desktop seed
[05:23] <Riddell> the gtk side of espresso does stuff with turning off gconf, but nothing very gnome specific
[05:24] <janimo> Riddell: thanks
[05:24] <nomed> i've seen it but i didn't check the code very well ..
[05:24] <janimo> anyway since that is the livecd it may even use some small gnome bits as long as it does not install them ;)
[05:25] <janimo> so the conclusion is flightX will be available but I cannot estimate when
[05:25] <nomed> janimo, i was thinking on configuration stuff
[05:25] <janimo> since it depends on when packages will be put in main
[05:25] <janimo> nomed, yes/
[05:25] <janimo> ?
[05:26] <nomed> janimo, i'll take a deeper look on that during the week end and i'll be more specific 
[05:26] <janimo> nomed, unrelated: if you like pyxfce you may want to package the bindings
[05:26] <janimo> also the pyexo stuff
[05:26] <nomed> janimo, yep it would be cool ..
[05:26] <janimo> that would sit well with the whole ubuntu line ;)
[05:26] <nomed> but maybe for dapper +1 ?
[05:26] <janimo> nomed, sure
[05:27] <janimo> shouildn't be hard though
[05:27] <janimo> just a small matter of packaging ;)
[05:27] <nomed> yep
[05:28] <nomed> ehehe 
[05:28] <janimo> anything else?
[05:28] <Gloubiboulga> :)
[05:28] <janimo> besides 6) future meetings
[05:28] <nomed> i having that time
[05:28] <nomed> friday is fine for me
[05:28] <janimo> ok I think we could have a fixed weekly schedule for future meetings
[05:29] <nomed> i agree
[05:29] <Gloubiboulga> yep, I agree too
[05:29] <janimo> Friday may not be good for some people
[05:29] <janimo> we should chose a day we have small chances to overlap with other meetings
[05:29] <janimo> edubuntu has their every Wed 
[05:29] <janimo> any prefs regarding day/hour?
[05:30] <janimo> what to exclude?
[05:30] <nomed> i have no problems if i know that in time
[05:30] <Gloubiboulga> same for me
[05:31] <janimo> even during the day? 12-16utc) ?
[05:31] <Gloubiboulga> except tuesday 13-17 UTC and friday before 15 UTC 
[05:32] <janimo> Ok let;s have them on Wed 14 UTC
[05:32] <janimo> an hour after edubuntu
[05:32] <janimo> if we show up next time we can keep the same schedule from now on
[05:32] <nomed> ok
[05:32] <Gloubiboulga> fine with me
[05:32] <ogra> janimo, talk to the a11y team
[05:32] <janimo> ogra: they have fixed schdule too?
[05:33] <ogra> they usually have theirs after ours, but no fixed schedule
[05:33] <janimo> hmm soon ubuntu-meeting wil need a scheduler
[05:33] <janimo> ogra, thanks for th eheadsup
[05:33] <ogra> Seveas is working on it ;)
[05:34] <janimo> ogra, do otrher teams have their fixed days?
[05:34] <Seveas> janimo, poke the fridge team with your schedule and Ubugtu will know it
[05:34] <Seveas> (ogra: no it's finished so I'm no longer working on it ;))
[05:34] <ogra> janimo, most have ...
[05:34] <janimo> Seveas,we thought we may have a somewhat fixed schedule 
[05:35] <nomed> janimo, Gloubiboulga soumyadip is here
[05:35] <janimo> so we dont; forget poking each week :)
[05:35] <nomed> 2. Localisation Issues <--
[05:35] <janimo> soumyadip: hi, we'll talk about scim in  a few minutes
[05:35] <ogra> Seveas, nah, thats only the first step ... calendaring isnt a full scheduling solution yet ;)
[05:35] <Gloubiboulga> hi soumyadip 
[05:35] <soumyadip> hi janimo Gloubiboulga 
[05:37] <janimo> lets' try nex Wed at 14 utc and if it conflicts we postpone it to Thu
[05:37] <janimo> soumyadip: let's talk about scim & co
[05:38] <soumyadip> janimo, right
[05:38] <janimo> do you have a list of packages which we need in xubuntu so they provide out of the box functionality for indic langs
[05:38] <janimo> the one you sent to th elist is that?
[05:38] <soumyadip> no that was for scim
[05:38] <soumyadip> IIRC
[05:38] <janimo> yes
[05:38] <janimo> what else is needed
[05:39] <janimo> I know next to 0 about this subject :(
[05:39] <soumyadip> we also need the ttf-indic-fonts metapackage, that pulls in all the individual font packages
[05:39] <soumyadip> we need to look into a couple of aspell packages
[05:39] <janimo> what is the status of ubuntu/kubuntu re this subject
[05:40] <janimo> is this the frentic work in progress at the l10n sprint ?
[05:40] <G0SUB> janimo: much more than that ...
[05:40] <soumyadip> janimo, nah, most of the packages are already in Ubuntu
[05:40] <soumyadip> janimo, we are currently trying to fix a rendering problem on OO2
[05:40] <janimo> GOSUB, I hope the sprint is much more than that not that we need much more than the sprinters are working on
[05:41] <soumyadip> janimo, well we did solve a rendering issue with firefox
[05:41] <janimo> soumyadip: OO2 does not directly concern xubuntu
[05:41] <soumyadip> ah yes
[05:41] <janimo> soumyadip: so we need to pick the packages which gnome/ubuntu installs for indic languiages and we;re fine?
[05:41] <soumyadip> janimo, you asked about the frenetic work :)
[05:41] <soumyadip> yup
[05:41] <janimo> soumyadip: ah, ok :)
[05:42] <soumyadip> janimo, apart form one small thing about the locales
[05:42] <janimo> translations for xfce apps?
[05:42] <janimo> I think we'll add language chooser
[05:42] <soumyadip> janimo, well translations are conducted by individual language teams
[05:42] <soumyadip> janimo, great
[05:43] <janimo> when xubuntu packages go to main, the plan is (was) to add them to langpack-base
[05:43] <soumyadip> janimo, since the language teams work autonomously, not all languages are translated completely
[05:43] <G0SUB> soumyadip: is XFCE in Rosetta yet?
[05:43] <soumyadip> G0SUB, no
[05:43] <janimo> since they are relatively small
[05:43] <soumyadip> janimo, ok
[05:43] <G0SUB> better get those in then
[05:43] <soumyadip> janimo, I started work on some translations
[05:43] <janimo> not in rosetta bc the policy is AIUI do not put stuff in rosetta if upstream does not use rosetta
[05:44] <soumyadip> G0SUB, that is not for me to decide
[05:44] <janimo> and xfce is not using it
[05:44] <janimo> soumyadip: great, are you coordinating with xfce i18n
[05:45] <janimo> although if dapper got imported in rosetta may mean that we can use it for packages indep of upstream
[05:45] <janimo> I am not sure
[05:45] <soumyadip> janimo, no, I'm currently translating .po files and sending them over to Runa Bhattacharya, who is the contact for Bengali i18n
[05:45] <janimo> soumyadip: apps in general you mean not just xfce?
[05:45] <soumyadip> janimo, no XFCE specific
[05:46] <soumyadip> I started work on thunar
[05:46] <janimo> and Runa sends to xfce then?
[05:46] <soumyadip> janimo, correct
[05:46] <janimo> soumyadip: great
[05:47] <janimo> so input methods, fonts , aspell and language packs
[05:47] <soumyadip> well the bengali translation team is divided between India and Bangladesh, so importing into rosetta would be beneficial for Bengali at least as people from both countries could work collaboratively
[05:47] <janimo> of these only input methods is trickier than the latin locales right?
[05:47] <soumyadip> janimo, does XFCE concern itself with hunspell ? there are hunspell dictionaries too
[05:47] <soumyadip> janimo, yup
[05:48] <soumyadip> janimo, all of them are covered by scim-tables-additional
[05:48] <janimo> soumyadip: they don;t have any app that uses a spell checker afaik
[05:48] <soumyadip> janimo,  ok
[05:48] <janimo> is abiword covered?
[05:48] <Seveas> ogra, true, but this channel is not nearly full enough to need a complete scheduler
[05:48] <soumyadip> janimo, Indic rendering in Abiword is hopelessly broken
[05:49] <janimo> upstream problem?
[05:49] <soumyadip> janimo, yup
[05:49] <janimo> So I guess OO will be used even with xubuntu?
[05:49] <soumyadip> if the user so decides
[05:49] <janimo> well if rendering is broken and user wants indic rendering :)
[05:49] <soumyadip> exactly
[05:50] <janimo> OT: how is koffice in this regard
[05:51] <Riddell> janimo: which?
[05:51] <janimo> indic rendering
[05:51] <Riddell> same as all the rest of KDE
[05:51] <janimo> meaning ? :)
[05:52] <Riddell> I've not heard any complains apart from Kate, so I assume it works
[05:52] <soumyadip> janimo, well I personally haven'ty tested KDE at all
[05:52] <janimo> Riddell: why don;t you ship koffice instead of oo?
[05:52] <janimo> soumyadip: ok, I was just curios if oo had some advantages afetr all
[05:52] <janimo> anything else to discuss?
[05:53] <Riddell> janimo: koffice lacks a number of features, kword isn't perfectly WYSIWYG, koffice 1.4.0 was quite unstable and their MS import filters are not as good as openoffice (except kspread) and export filters are non-existant
[05:53] <janimo> so meeting next week Wed 14UTC 
[05:53] <janimo> Seveas, can you put it on the fridge ^
[05:53] <janimo> thanks
[05:53] <Riddell> we do ship krita on the CD from koffice
[05:54] <janimo> Riddell: thanks
[05:54] <soumyadip> janimo, ok, I'll play around to see if there are any more issues
[05:54] <janimo> ok thanks everyone we meet next Wed
[05:54] <nomed> cu next Wed
[05:54] <nomed> janimo, one question ...
[05:54] <Gloubiboulga> cu
[05:55] <G0SUB> Gloubiboulga: :)
[05:55] <janimo> nomed: sure
[05:55] <Gloubiboulga> hey G0SUB :)
[05:55] <Seveas> janimo, I'm no fridge person, poke fridge-devel@lists.ubuntu.com
[05:55] <nomed> wouldn't it be possible to have an xubuntu cd using the pkge that are already in main ?
[05:55] <janimo> Seveas: aha I thought you were
[05:56] <janimo> nomed: only gnome/lde are in main :)
[05:56] <janimo> that's why we dont; have a CD yet
[05:56] <nomed> and just for xubuntu team ?
[05:56] <nomed> ubuntu has already released 5 cds ..
[05:57] <nomed> i hope we'll not have too much issues on xubuntu cds :/
[05:57] <janimo> you mean a cd with packages in universe then?
[05:57] <nomed> yes
[05:57] <janimo> nomed, I hope so too
[05:57] <janimo> but I don;t want to start building and uploading CDs myself
[05:58] <janimo> since it needs bandwidth a lot of time
[05:58] <nomed> i undesrtand
[05:58] <janimo> and mostly skillz :)
[05:58] <janimo> which I am not sure is the best time for me to start learning now
[05:58] <janimo> especially since the CD;s should be done any day now (TM)
[05:58] <nomed> ok
[05:58] <janimo> but I'll ask Colin again
[06:00] <nomed> so cu next Wed :)
[06:00] <nomed> ciao
[06:28] <ruy> hi
[08:23] <Zerlinna> hi there, is it _really_ sure that there is no official announcement of the delay of Dapper yet? - Because ubuntuusers.de (& also heise.de)  have already post that on their site.
[08:30] <Zerlinna> ping Seveas
[08:30] <Seveas> Zerlinna, there is no official announcement yet
[08:31] <natroll-> gonna wait till the 19th?
[08:32] <Zerlinna> Seveas: ok thank you! I just needed to be really sure
[10:06] <mdke> who's around?
[10:07] <LaserJock> I am
[10:08] <mdke> cool
[10:08] <mdke> shall we get straight into it?
[10:08] <trappist> let's do, this is the only thing keeping me from going home :)
[10:08] <mdke> agenda is: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/MeetingAgenda
[10:09] <mdke> first up, Author attribution - proposal is to have the author of every document as the Documentation Team, with the team email address. Individual contributors can then be listed in the <legalnotice> tag.
[10:09] <mdke> we've already discussed this briefly in the chan
[10:09] <mdke> anyone have any clarifications/questions/worries?
[10:09] <LaserJock> ok, so where exactly are we setting this?
[10:09] <LaserJock> in bookinfo.xml or the omf file?
[10:09] <mdke> in each document, wherever it is relevant
[10:10] <mdke> it's in the <bookinfo> tag yeah, but that may not always be a separate file
[10:10] <Burgwork> works for me
[10:10] <trappist> I'm not sure I like it - I think that info is less useful than an actual author's name
[10:10] <mdke> to my mind, the ideal example is this: https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/trunk/generic/packagingguide/C/bookinfo.xml
[10:10] <trappist> but I haven't really thought it through
[10:10] <trappist> what's the argument for it?
[10:11] <mdke> trappist, i think docs look better when they come from a team, rather than individuals.
[10:11] <Burgwork> we have a single contact, the doc team
[10:11] <mdke> and it's better for contact details, as Burg says
[10:11] <Burgwork> because as some of us have seen, sometimes teams are revolving doors, while the team is constant
[10:11] <LaserJock> mdke: ok, but what about the omf files. They have <creator>, <maintainer>, and <contributor> tages?
[10:11] <trappist> that does make sense
[10:12] <mdke> LaserJock, i would say creator+maintainer = team, and contributor = individuals
[10:12] <mdke> not sure
[10:13] <LaserJock> the only thing I would like to have is some separation a far as what doc team members are "in charge" of each doc
[10:13] <mdke> LaserJock, yes, that's why I like the way you've done it in the packaging guide bookinfo
[10:13] <LaserJock> I agree ;-)
[10:13] <LaserJock> but I think I need to change the omf file
[10:14] <mdke> yes
[10:14] <mdke> hi jjesse 
[10:14] <jjesse> hello
[10:14] <mdke> jjesse, we're on item 1
[10:14] <jjesse> ok, grabing the agenda
[10:16] <jjesse> any decision made on that?
[10:16] <trappist> so author=team, maintainer=maintainer and contributors=a list?
[10:16] <mdke> jjesse, the general feeling is pro, what are your views?
[10:16] <mdke> trappist, precisely
[10:16] <jjesse> i have no problem with it
[10:17] <trappist> mdke: as opposed to author/maintainer=team
[10:17] <jjesse> for example in the release notes i included some authors in the list but missed some and was asked about it
[10:17] <jjesse> i like trappist idea author=team maint. = maintainer
[10:18] <manicka> a contributor list should be more than enough
[10:18] <mdke> trappist, yes. in https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/trunk/generic/packagingguide/C/bookinfo.xml you'd have the maintainers and contributors in the <legalnotice> tag, and the author (docteam) in the <authorgroup> tag
[10:19] <trappist> I don't see a maintainer - as in, who's "in charge of" that particular doc
[10:19] <mdke> trappist, right, that would be added to that file
[10:19] <trappist> which is useful info, at least for me
[10:19] <trappist> gotcha
[10:19] <jjesse> confused a little
[10:20] <jjesse> maintainer would be the person "in charge" of that doc, like laserjock for kubuntu destkop guide
[10:20] <mdke> a bit like this: https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/trunk/ubuntu/desktopguide/C/bookinfo.xml except maybe the maintainer list could be separate from the contributors
[10:20] <jjesse> ?
[10:20] <trappist> in that case, +1 to the proposal as I understand it
[10:20] <mdke> jjesse, sure, except its robotgeek :)
[10:20] <jjesse> grin i never keep it straight
[10:21] <mdke> ok, everyone seems in favour
[10:21] <mdke> any more comments?
[10:21] <jjesse> so for the docs we have to redo and add a bookinfo.xml file?
[10:21] <jjesse> cause i know releasenotes and about kubuntu don't have them
[10:21] <mdke> jjesse, no no. You can do it all in one file too
[10:21] <mdke> jjesse, it's in the <bookinfo> tag in release-notes.xml and about-kubuntu.xml
[10:22] <jjesse> ah sorry, brain is fried from a long work week
[10:22] <mdke> i know the feeling :/
[10:22] <mdke> all clear?
[10:22] <jjesse> yes
[10:22] <LaserJock> I think so
[10:23] <mdke> LaserJock, go ahead if it's not
[10:23] <LaserJock> mdke: so the packaging guide is ok? I just need to adjust the omf file
[10:23] <mdke> LaserJock, you should adjust the list in bookinfo.xml so that it is clear you are the maintainer. Maybe even split the list into two lists
[10:23] <mdke> IMO
[10:24] <LaserJock> mdke: ok, maybe you should send a sample (template) to the list so everybody can see
[10:24] <mdke> ok
[10:24] <mdke> it's two lists already actually
[10:25] <LaserJock> I just split it into "doc team members" and "contributors"
[10:26] <mdke> LaserJock, something like this: http://pastebin.com/608084
[10:26] <mdke> except without the grammatical errors
[10:26] <LaserJock> that looks good to me
[10:26] <mdke> note: I've also changed the authorgroup to use the entity, but that is trivial
[10:27] <LaserJock> and then in the omf I would have author == doc project and maintainer == laserjock
[10:28] <mdke> creator == doc project, I suppose. there isn't an "author"
[10:28] <trappist> that does make more sense
[10:28] <LaserJock> there isn't?
[10:28] <LaserJock> doh, there isn't
[10:28] <LaserJock> ok, I'm all good
[10:29] <mdke> great
[10:29] <mdke> next item:  Internal doc freeze dates? What/when are we giving docs to translators? 
[10:30] <mdke> we haven't heard back from the TB about the doc freeze yet
[10:30] <jjesse> remember that this will be the first time that kubuntu docs will be included in rosetta
[10:30] <LaserJock> ok, so I was talking with Keybuk in -devel about the doc freeze
[10:30] <mdke> me too
[10:30] <mdke> he seemed happy but said to wait for the rest of the TB
[10:31] <LaserJock> he thought the present scheme on wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperReleaseSchedule was good
[10:31] <mdke> erm
[10:31] <mdke> that is kinda the opposite of what we've been saying on the thread on the mailing list
[10:31] <mdke> it is a 6 week delay
[10:32] <LaserJock> exactly
[10:32] <LaserJock> that is my point
[10:32] <jjesse> i thought on the mailing list we talked about a 2 week delay for the docs
[10:32] <mdke> when I spoke to him today he was happy about amending that to 2 weeks
[10:32] <LaserJock> mdke: ok, I talked to him yesterday I think
[10:32] <LaserJock> he must have changed his mind ;-)
[10:32] <mdke> LaserJock, I'm pushier than you :)
[10:32] <mdke> I'm really against a 6 week delay
[10:33] <LaserJock> well, the point he brought up was that UI Freeze was also pushed 6 weeks
[10:33] <mdke> those poor translations are gonna have like 10 times the strings they had for breezy, and even then it wasn't enough time
[10:33] <LaserJock> so we will freeze before UI Freeze
[10:33] <mdke> I don't have a problem with that, as I said in my email. what do others think?
[10:34] <trappist> I don't have my head around what needs to be done or how much time we *need*, so I don't really have an opinion.
[10:34] <LaserJock> Corey didn't think that the UI freeze would affect much and I tend to agree. I think the changes should be pretty small
[10:34] <LaserJock> but I'm not writing a doc heavily using the UI ;-)
[10:35] <mdke> I agree too. I think that any changes can be sorted out by us changing and notifying the translator list
[10:35] <mdke> but I'm still keen on freezing early formally, rather than informally
[10:35] <LaserJock> agreed, so +2 weeks on all docs?
[10:36] <mdke> can the packaging guide handle it?
[10:36] <LaserJock> I sure hope so
[10:36] <mdke> heh
[10:36] <LaserJock> 2 extra weeks will good
[10:36] <LaserJock> It might not have as much polish as the rest of the docs
[10:36] <trappist> I can polish
[10:36] <mdke> any more thoughts on this? votes +1 or -1 for 2 weeks (subject to TB approval):
[10:36] <LaserJock> +1
[10:37] <trappist> +1
[10:37] <mdke> +1
[10:37] <mdke> Burgwork, jjesse, mgalvin, manicka ^
[10:37] <manicka> +1
[10:37] <Burgwork> +1
[10:38] <mdke> lol
[10:38] <mdke> Burgwork, 2 week extension on the freeze, rather than 6
[10:38] <Burgwork> sounds good
[10:38] <mgalvin> +1
[10:39] <LaserJock> my biggest concern with the packaging guide is that it won't have much developer review, but I think I'll have to wait for Dapper+1 for that
[10:39] <mdke> ok, that brings us onto the next one
[10:39] <mdke> Current doc status. Where are we at with each doc?
[10:39] <mdke> go LaserJock 
[10:40] <LaserJock> umm, well, uhhh
[10:40] <LaserJock> I'm getting there
[10:40] <LaserJock> I'm pretty happy with the introduction and getting started chapters
[10:40] <LaserJock> I think trappist could work his magic there
[10:41] <mdke> so, packaging guide and server guide would appear to be good targets for trappist and other like minded magic-workers
[10:41] <mdke> the desktop guide is looking good, I think. How about kubuntu stuff? <-- jjesse
[10:41] <LaserJock> I was supposed to get help from other MOTUs etc. but that hasn't shown up. I think I'll have to brute force it :(
[10:41] <trappist> I've already been busy on serverguide.  I can make time for packaging guide once LaserJock's got it stable.
[10:42] <mdke> trappist, any idea which chapters are missing from serverguide? it's nearly there, right?
[10:42] <LaserJock> ok, so I wanted to bring up status reports in relation to this
[10:42] <trappist> yeah, it is.  some network-config stuff, a lot of email stuff and maybe some firewall stuff still needs work iirc
[10:43] <mdke> LaserJock, what's on your mind?
[10:43] <trappist> oh and wireless.
[10:43] <LaserJock> ok, I think all the docs should have status reports, and we should be using them for this stuff
[10:43] <trappist> I totally agree.
[10:44] <LaserJock> I'm not sure exactly what I need to do that
[10:44] <mdke> LaserJock, we've been getting better at status reports recently. they are generally up to date, I think. BUT there is one major problem
[10:44] <trappist> the serverguide has one that seems pretty up to date and it's been very useful to me, looking for stuff to work on
[10:44] <mdke> if you take a look at http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/status/sg-report.html, you'll see that far too many sections have tags
[10:44] <mdke> even the really minor sub-sub-sub sections have them
[10:44] <mdke> which is really confusing
[10:44] <LaserJock> I agree
[10:45] <trappist> mdke: what about a tree-view status report, then?
[10:45] <mdke> we could write up a wiki page about status tags
[10:45] <mdke> trappist, that would rock. no idea how to do it
[10:45] <trappist> how are these status reports generated?
[10:46] <mdke> trappist, in the Makefile, in a similar way to the html previews
[10:46] <trappist> I'll look into that and see if I can make it happen
[10:46] <LaserJock> ok, so looking at the Projects wiki, I don't see links to many of the Kubuntu doc status reports or the packaging guide and style guide
[10:46] <mdke> I would tend to prioritise that quite low
[10:46] <mdke> maybe even dapper+1, if we only have 3 weeks left
[10:47] <trappist> yeah
[10:47] <LaserJock> mdke: so do I need to tweak the Makefile to generate a status report?
[10:47] <mdke> LaserJock, you may have to add an entry for the packaging guide yeah
[10:47] <LaserJock> ok
[10:47] <mdke> LaserJock, and you'll need status tags in the doc, if you haven't got them already
[10:48] <LaserJock> I've got 1 so far for trappist ;-)
[10:48] <LaserJock> but I'll go through and add the rest
[10:48] <mdke> cool
[10:48] <mdke> the various tags are at the bottom of the Projects wiki page
[10:49] <LaserJock> ok, so I guess I'll put "review" when I'm ready for some word nazi action?
[10:49] <mdke> that's it
[10:49] <LaserJock> k, I'll get it done ASAP
[10:50] <mdke> okies. next issue
[10:50] <mdke>  Screenshots? How many and for what docs? How will the UI Freeze affect them?
[10:50] <LaserJock> ok, so that was for Madpilot kinda
[10:50] <LaserJock> I noticed there was some discussion about including screenshots in the user guides
[10:51] <mdke> placeholders need to be in before string freeze, but they can be taken/updated after that, if things change before UI Freeze.
[10:51] <LaserJock> yeah, and they wouldn't be translated ...
[10:51] <trappist> I think nobody should be taking screenshots until after the ui freeze
[10:52] <LaserJock> should we make a list of screenshots we need for each doc? maybe on a wiki?
[10:52] <trappist> so there won't be any wasted effort, and we should have time then, due to the string freeze
[10:52] <mdke> LaserJock, they should just be inserted into the document, in my opinion. then they can be taken later, as trappist says
[10:54] <LaserJock> I was just thinking that the authors could put up a list of screenshots (that need to be done) for each doc and then people could attach them. It might go a little faster that way
[10:54] <LaserJock> just a thought
[10:55] <LaserJock> thought
[10:55] <mdke> it might work. But making a list of screenshots is not a lot slower than adding placeholders into the doc directly
[10:55] <mdke> slower/faster *
[10:56] <LaserJock> mdke: I mean after the placeholders are in
[10:56] <trappist> mdke: but looking at a list is faster than looking for placeholders
[10:56] <mdke> ah sure
[10:56] <mdke> yes, agreed
[10:56] <mdke> we should have plenty of time to do that after the strings are frozen, as trappist says
[10:56] <LaserJock> I was thinking that way that the author could solicit screenshots ;-)
[10:56] <mdke> yeah, good plan, my bad
[10:57] <LaserJock> ok, so we use placeholders until after the UI Freeze, right?
[10:57] <mdke> that's right
[10:58] <LaserJock> ok, next item?
[10:58] <mdke>  Do we have any prioritization of wiki pages (cleanup) that should be done before Dapper is released?
[10:58] <mdke> Burgwork, good item for you if you're around
[10:58] <LaserJock> I was just thinking that maybe some wiki pages need to be prioritized for the release
[10:58] <trappist> do we even have an unprioritized list?
[10:59] <mdke> trappist, CategoryCleanup
[10:59] <LaserJock> or https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WikiToDo maybe
[11:00] <trappist> holy crap that's a lot of wikis
[11:00] <trappist> how does stuff get onto/off of that list?
[11:00] <LaserJock> you fix it ;-)
[11:00] <trappist> I can get on that
[11:01] <LaserJock> at the bottom of the page is usually the list of categories a page belongs to
[11:01] <mdke> yeah, just delete the reference to CategoryCleanup once it's clean :)
[11:02] <trappist> got it.
[11:02] <mdke> trappist, for future word-nazi-ing reference, you call them "wiki pages" rather than "wikis"
[11:02] <trappist> check.
[11:02] <mdke> "This wiki page is a guide to etc"
[11:02] <LaserJock> anyway, I could be totally wrong, but I thought that maybe we need to make sure that all the most important wiki pages are ready for dapper
[11:02] <Burgwork> we are looking for a list of priority pages?
[11:02] <trappist> I dunno if I can maintain a 10-a-day pace until release, so yeah I guess prioritization will be helpful
[11:02] <mdke> but LaserJock's item is a valid one
[11:03] <Burgwork> BinaryDriverHowto is badly in need of a rewrite
[11:03] <mdke> a number of things will need updating for dapper
[11:03] <mdke> codecs have changed packages etc
[11:03] <Burgwork> we need to decide what to do with DVD support in Dapper
[11:04] <LaserJock> arggh
[11:04] <mdke> heh
[11:04] <mdke> that is rather waiting on upstream tbh
[11:04] <Burgwork> dvd support has not been ported to gstreamer0.10
[11:04] <mgalvin> later guys
[11:04] <mdke> Burgwork, it's been ported, but some features are missing
[11:04] <Burgwork> ugh
[11:04] <mdke> menus, subtitles are missing
[11:04] <Burgwork> all I know is there is not a package yet available. I call that not ported
[11:04] <mdke> apparently there is a chance of it getting fixed for dapper, but only a chance
[11:05] <mdke> I was led to believe there is a package
[11:05] <LaserJock> I think so
[11:05] <Burgwork> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PageHits <-- this is a good guideline for figuring out what needs to be done
[11:05] <mdke> good point
[11:05] <LaserJock> nice
[11:05] <trappist> great link
[11:06] <Burgwork> I will create a subpage of WikiTodo called CheckedForDapper and list some that need to be checked
[11:06] <Burgwork> once someone has checked a page, sign off on it on that page
[11:06] <mdke> maybe even a category?
[11:06] <Burgwork> page is easier, we don't need extra categories, IMHO
[11:07] <mdke> alright, if you don't mind doing the list
[11:07] <Burgwork> I will do it tonight
[11:07] <LaserJock> way cool
[11:07] <mdke> cool
[11:08] <LaserJock> ok, so I just wanted to briefly mention that I was able to get the Ubuntu docs to register with doc-base
[11:08] <mdke> yay
[11:08] <LaserJock> but I haven't done the Kubuntu docs yet
[11:09] <LaserJock> it looks like they should be easier
[11:09] <mdke> yep, they are all under /usr/share/doc/kde/en/HTML/kubuntu
[11:09] <mdke> will be hell to localise, stupid kde
[11:10] <LaserJock> so I just have to add the proper control files and tweak the packaging
[11:10] <LaserJock> and then build a test kubuntu-docs package
[11:10] <LaserJock> man they take a long time to build
[11:11] <mdke> do you want a user account on our server?
[11:11] <mdke> the builds are fast
[11:11] <mdke> in fact they should be fast on any reasonable computer
[11:11] <LaserJock> perhaps that might be useful
[11:12] <mdke> ok
[11:12] <LaserJock> what every you want. If I could use my dual core iMac maybe it would be faster ;-)
[11:12] <mdke> heh
[11:12] <mdke> any other business, can we wrap things up?
[11:13] <trappist> I got nothin
[11:13] <dsas> quick question: I take it that will there be a meeting after dapper release to discuss the next cycle?
[11:14] <LaserJock> many, many meetings ;-)
[11:14] <dsas> sounds fun ;)
[11:15] <mdke> yeah
[11:16] <mdke> me too