[12:04] <jelkner> mdz: u here?
[12:05] <kjcole> Do people  make  heirarchies of teams  to provide  multiple  ownership of  projects, products, etc?
[12:09] <ports> einarr found it.. spam blocker did pick it up
[12:10] <einarr> heh. does it say why?
[12:12] <ports> nope
[12:12] <ports> hotmails just a pain in the butt
[12:12] <mdz> jelkner: briefly, yes?
[12:14] <jelkner> mdz: do you know much about how launchpad works?
[12:15] <mdz> a bit
[12:15] <jelkner> i created a project by mistake, when all i really wanted was a product
[12:15] <jelkner> can i delete the project?
[12:15] <mdz> I don't think so
[12:15] <jelkner> ouch
[12:15] <mdz> you'll need a launchpad admin to fix that up for you
[12:15] <kjcole> Do people  make  heirarchies of teams  to provide  multiple  ownership of  projects, products, etc?
[12:16] <mdz> jelkner: meanwhile, there's no reason you can't go ahead and create your product, and ignore the bogus project
[12:16] <mdz> kjcole: yes
[12:16] <jelkner> we are specifically looking at the cookbook
[12:16] <jelkner> we will want a cookbook admins team
[12:16] <jelkner> a cookbook cooks team
[12:16] <jelkner> etc.
[12:16] <mdz> why do you need more than one team?
[12:17] <jelkner> well, some folks should be able to administer a project (change permissions, groups, etc)
[12:17] <kjcole> mdz, thanks.  And  is there  anywhere  with good tutorials or definitions  of  the  relationships between  project, product, product series, etc? 
[12:17] <jelkner> others are contributing, but not in that capacity
[12:18] <jelkner> wouldn't that suggest two teams?
[12:18] <jelkner> there doesn't seem to be a way to specify roles within a team
[12:18] <mdz> jelkner: what sort of permissions, groups, etc. are you thinking of?
[12:18] <mdz> jelkner: within a team, there is an owner, administrators, and normal members
[12:18] <jelkner> oh
[12:18] <jelkner> that is all we want
[12:18] <mdz> administrators can do things like add and remove team members
[12:19] <kjcole> mdz, Suppose jelkner wants  to  change  the description of a project, or point to a  different branch, but doesn't have the  time.  He shoots off  an e-mail to someone  else... who  can do it.
[12:19] <jelkner> kjcole: an admin
[12:20] <jelkner> that's all we need at this point
[12:20] <kjcole> mdz, it appears at present that a  project can have only one  maintainer/owner but that can be a team.
[12:20] <mdz> kjcole: let's work within his actual needs rather than hypothetical ones
[12:20] <mdz> that is correct
[12:21] <mdz> but I see no need for him to overcomplicate things at this point; a single team should be quite sufficient
[12:21] <jelkner> mdz: so the whole team owns the project?
[12:21] <mdz> jelkner: the ower is whoever you set it to be
[12:21] <jelkner> let's be specific
[12:21] <jelkner> we want more than one person to be able to administer the cookbook project
[12:22] <mdz> you mean product
[12:22] <jelkner> if we assign the cookbook to the cookbook team
[12:22] <jelkner> does everyone on the team have full ownership of the cookbook project?
[12:23] <mdz> if you assign a role to a team, all active members of the team have that role
[12:23] <jelkner> then we need another, smaller team, cookbook administrators, who can have ownership
[12:23] <kjcole> mdz,  which  sort of leads back to teams  within teams.
[12:23] <jelkner> we don't want the whole team to own the project
[12:23] <mdz> my instinct is that you're overengineering this
[12:23] <jelkner> no, we aren't
[12:24] <mdz> either elect someone to be the product registrant, or just use the team
[12:24] <mdz> you have control over who is in the team; are you concerned that some of them will make inappropriate changes to the product?
[12:25] <jelkner> mdz: i just don't understand yet who can do what, so i'm feeling my way through this
[12:25] <mdz> jelkner: in that case my advice goes double: keep it simple until you learn more about how you want to use the system
[12:25] <kjcole> mdz,  a lot of  us are  learning as  we  go.  Changes made  without  malice but in error  is perhaps more the concern.
[12:25] <jelkner> exactly
[12:26] <jelkner> i've already done that myself several times
[12:26] <jelkner> and i'm only just getting started! ;-)
[12:27] <mdz> einarr: there is a question in the FAQ about receiving email from launchpad
[12:27] <jelkner> so for the sake of the project, we would like kjcole and myself to share the admin responsiblity for the project
[12:27] <mdz> jelkner: then try not to overthink things; just do the basics and if you need more later, you can always change it
[12:27] <jelkner> will do
[12:27] <jelkner> thanks!
[12:28] <mdz> it sounds like you aren't sure yet what it means to admin the product; there really aren't very many things to be done
[12:28] <mdz> you can do things like add series, milestones and branches to organize the code for the product
[12:28] <jelkner> mdz: you are certainly right there (that i'm not sure, i mean)
[12:28] <mdz> you can edit the name and description of the product
[12:30] <mdz> add translation templates
[12:30] <mdz> that sort of thing
[12:30] <kjcole> mdz, is  there beginner docs for launchpad squirreled away anywhere?   I found good introductory material for bzr, but  not  so  much for launchpad.
[12:30] <mdz> the cookbook, guessing by its name, is a piece of documentation
[12:30] <mdz> kjcole: is your space bar sticking?
[12:31] <kjcole> mdz, crappy keyboard.  wouldn't  be surprised.
[12:31] <jelkner> mdz: anyway, is there any good intro documentation for lauchpad?
[12:32] <mdz> not that I know of
[12:32] <mdz> there is a launchpad-users mailing list where you can discuss launchpad and ask questions
[12:32] <daf> there is also the wiki
[12:32] <daf> https://wiki.launchpad.canonical.com
[12:32] <mdz> there are usually folks in this channel as well, but the launchpad development team just fiinshed a sprint and are probably all traveling home at the moment
[12:32] <daf> er
[12:32] <jelkner> ahh, a wiki sounds more like it
[12:33] <daf> there's not much documentation on it as of yet
[12:33] <daf> at least, not for users
[12:33] <daf> you are, of course, welcome to write some
[12:33] <kjcole> daf, I thought I'd been to that wiki before, but perhaps not recently.  Will check again.
[12:33] <jelkner> daf: we would love to, but we need to learn how it works first ;-)
[12:34] <daf> sure :)
[12:34] <daf> it might be a good idea to take notes as you go along
[12:35] <jelkner> will do
[12:35] <jelkner> thanks for your help!
[12:35] <daf> you're welcome
[12:35] <kjcole> Thank you, gentlemen
[12:36] <kjcole> We will continue to explore.  (I've been keeping notes on my bzr stumblings...)
[12:36] <daf> ah, cool
[12:36] <daf> there's a separate wiki for bzr
[12:37] <kjcole> bzr, been there, and even made minor corrections. ;-)
[12:37] <daf> excellent
[12:37] <daf> the bzr<->Launchpad integration is just getting started
[12:38] <kjcole> daf, the documentation there has been very helpful.  Not always enough for someone like me who's never used any RCS, but good enough to get me in deep. 
[12:38] <daf> ah, interesting
[12:38] <daf> perhaps it assumes too much about what people already know
[12:39] <kjcole> daf, I didn't see the point in trying to learn subversion just so I could unlearn it for bzr.  I saw bzr at UBZ, and thought "This looks easy enough to jump right in."  and for the mostpart, it has been.
[12:39] <daf> mm, I was sceptical about revision control for a long time
[12:40] <daf> then I appreciated it but disliked how difficult it was
[12:40] <daf> bzr is changing that
[12:41] <kjcole> daf, however, what's less than well-defined are the various files that pop-up when there's a conflict.  I'm getting a feel for those as well.  (You're also talking to someone who doesn't use patch, and only uses diff in a very simple manner.)
[12:41] <daf> indeed, conflict handling is still a little rough
[12:42] <daf> perhaps bzr can make it easier to work with conflict files
[12:46] <kjcole> daf, as someone who's not a big developer, and hasn't done much collaborative work, I think the thing is for me to work on better understanding.  Sure, I won't knock improvements to bzr, but I realize I'm the beginner.
[12:46] <kjcole> daf, anyway.  Gotta run to another channel. ;-)
[12:46] <daf> see you
[02:18] <[aJ] > Is launchpad free to use?
[03:31] <stub> Launchpad will be going down for scheduled maintenance in 30 mins. Estimated downtime is up to 3 hours. Wikis will be in read only mode during this time.
[09:01] <daf> morning
[09:02] <G0SUB> daf: hello!
[09:02] <daf> hi G0SUB 
[09:03] <G0SUB> daf: what's the status of ttf-freefont ?
[09:04] <daf> hmm, I don't know
[09:04] <daf> let's ask mvo
[09:04] <G0SUB> ok
[09:53] <fabbione> is there any way i can trigger malone to show me all the 200 bugs of a package in one single page?
[09:58] <carlos> morning
[09:59] <stub> fabbione: not yet. We didn't allow it because large batch sizes just blew up  We have fixed that now though, so we will be able to support it soon.
[09:59] <fabbione> stub: soon as in how many hours from now?
[09:59] <stub> fabbione: Soon as in at least 1 week.
[10:00] <daf> fabbione: can you paste the URL of the page in question?
[10:00] <fabbione> https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-x-swat/+subscribedbugs
[10:00] <fabbione> daf: i need to get an overview of X packages
[10:00] <fabbione> 20 bugs at a time = no good
[10:00] <daf> ah -- the batch changes didn't land yet
[10:01] <stub> fabbione: If it is going to cause problems for release, I can increase the bug batch size for *everybody* on wednesday.
[10:01] <daf> somebody in London was working on that
[10:01] <fabbione> stub: ok, who do i need to bitch to get it done?
[10:01] <daf> I think it's committed to RF
[10:01] <daf> at the least you will be able to hack URL parameters to give you lots of bugs soon
[10:01] <fabbione> stub: it depends how importnat you think X is for a desktop :)
[10:01] <fabbione> daf: i did try.. no luck
[10:02] <stub> fabbione: kiko and brad to get it sorted properly. Brad wants to add this in - just needs prioritizing.
[10:02] <daf> fabbione: right, there's a bug where the parameters are ignored
[10:03] <stub> I think I'll increase the default batch size on wednesday anyway - lots of people have requested so I don't think we will get complaints from people who think it is too big
[10:03] <stub> (for bug listings)
[10:04] <fabbione> stub: ok thanks...
[10:04] <fabbione> daf: yes..
[10:20] <spiv> kiko has done a heap of performance work that should make batched pages less necessary too.
[10:21] <daf> https://launchpad.net/products/launchpad/+bug/3948
[10:21] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 3948 in launchpad "User profile for Launchpad Batching System" [Wishlist,Unconfirmed]  
[10:21] <daf> https://launchpad.net/products/launchpad/+bug/34910
[10:21] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 34910 in launchpad ""Show all" in batched search results" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  
[10:21] <daf> I think Bjorn was working on batching
[10:22] <fabbione> https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-x-swat/+packagebugs
[10:23] <fabbione> who can spot the errors?
[10:23] <fabbione> if there is one open bug in package foo, there is no way on earth that there are 2 not assigned
[10:23] <fabbione> or
[10:23] <fabbione> if there are 2 open bugs, there are no way 3 are criticals
[10:24] <daf> eek!
[10:24] <daf> I bet this is to do with not excluding fixed critical bugs
[10:24] <carlos> fabbione: I think it's related with another bug that counts also 'Fix released' bugs
[10:24] <carlos> daf: right ;-)
[10:25] <daf> hi BjornT 
[10:26] <daf> am I right in thinking you've been working on batching stuff?
[10:29] <BjornT> hi daf. the only thing i did with the batching was to factor out some template code to a view.
[10:29] <fabbione> hi kiko, bradb 
[10:29] <fabbione> kiko: i just mentioned a few things to stub and daf.. 
[10:30] <fabbione> kiko: dear consigliere, please make it so that the godfather can work..
[10:30] <fabbione> kiko: or there might be a few dead horses around London
[10:32] <stub> kiko: Did your O(1) fix to the bug listings land?
[10:33] <daf> spiv: https://launchpad.net/products/launchpad/+bug/4880 -- where's that at?
[10:33] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 4880 in launchpad "Batch URLs should use 'start' and 'batch' instead of 'batch_start' and 'batch_end'" [Normal,Confirmed]  
[10:33] <daf> kiko: maybe you could steal this bug
[10:35] <spiv> daf: no change, but the refactoring kiko and I did last week means we should only need to change once place to do it.
[10:35] <daf> ooh, yay
[10:36] <daf> ISTR there being a bug about Malone ignoring batch_end
[10:40] <daf> printframe
[10:40] <daf> bah
[10:41] <kiko> stub, not yet, I'm trying to merge it today
[10:41] <kiko> stub, will you be able to pick it up in the next rollout?
[10:42] <kiko> fabbione, that is an offer I can't refuse
[10:42] <fabbione> kiko: i know my dear consigliere...
[10:42] <fabbione> kiko: i really need a couple of fixes in malone, otherwise my life as X maintainer will suck..
[10:42] <kiko> fabbione, wait till this week's rollout, I have a surprise for you
[10:42] <stub> kiko: yes. It it lands, I can increase bug batch size to keep fabione from calling his family
[10:42] <fabbione> kiko: i am sure daf can tell you exactly what i need in LP terminology
[10:43] <fabbione> kiko: ok, when is that?
[10:43] <kiko> stub, okay. I had weird merge failures but I am cutting my losses and going to land it today
[10:43] <stub> kiko: See my email to launchpad@ about failures in the specs pagetests?
[10:44] <kiko> not yet, but I will -- I'm not surprised though because I was looking at that code today and..
[10:47] <daf> kiko: do you remember an issue with Malone ignoring batch_end?
[10:47] <daf> kiko: is that gone?
[10:47] <daf> I can't find the bug
[10:49] <kiko> I think I have it here somewhere
[10:49] <carlos> lifeless: Would be possible to remove pyme from chinstrap:/home/warthogs/archives/rocketfuel-built/sourcecode/ ? As far as I know it's not being used anymore but we keep fetching it
[10:49] <kiko> I think everybody ignores batch_end
[10:49] <kiko> daf, I will change it to be batch_length at some point with some coordination with bradb 
[10:49] <daf> right
[10:49] <daf> bug #4480
[10:49] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 4480 in launchpad "Cannot remove remote bug watches from Malone bug reports" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/4480
[10:49] <daf> er
[10:49] <daf> bug #4880
[10:49] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 4880 in launchpad "Batch URLs should use 'start' and 'batch' instead of 'batch_start' and 'batch_end'" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/4880
[10:50] <daf> DO IT
[10:52] <kiko> daf, do you really think that, well, it should be just "start"? doesn't that run the risk of conflicting with a local form var?
[10:54] <daf> the only disadvantage to batch_* is that they're longer
[10:56] <stub> kiko: Our forms are nearly all autogenerated, and they have munged names to avoid namespace conflicts. So you only risk conflicts with our hand rolled search forms - would they want 'start' or 'end' fields?
[10:58] <carlos> stub: would be possible to get those potemplate and potemplatenames I requested last week removed from production today?
[10:58] <kiko> stub, I'm not sure, but I am guessing "no".
[10:58] <stub> carlos: Sure. I'll do it now
[10:58] <carlos> stub: thank you very much
[11:04] <daf> https://launchpad.net/products/malone/+bug/35692
[11:04] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 35692 in malone "package bugs page includes fixed critical bugs" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  
[11:04] <daf> fabbione: ^^^
[11:04] <cprov> salgado: do you think you can handle bug 30609 at some point ? 
[11:04] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 30609 in soyuz "having a "build logs of the packages I've uploaded" would be nice" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/30609
[11:07] <daf> kiko: are we thinking that https://launchpad.net/products/launchpad/+bug/30680 is an Apache issue?
[11:07] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 30680 in launchpad "presenting SSL client certificate from unknown CA prevents connect to https://launchpad.net" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  
[11:07] <daf> kiko: if so, did we contact the admins about it?
[11:08] <jamesh> kiko: want to look at the poparser encoding stuff?
[11:08] <jamesh> (I'm pushing the newline stuff up now)
[11:11] <daf> carlos: what's the word on imports?
[11:12] <carlos> daf: "Only" 9000 to go
[11:12] <daf> *cough*
[11:12] <daf> great
[11:13] <daf> er, you mean 9000 needing intervention down from ~17000
[11:13] <daf> ?
[11:13] <jamesh> daf: I think it is an Apache issue, and can probably be fixed by removing the client cert stuff from the config
[11:13] <daf> or you mean 9000 left to be added to the ~17000
[11:13] <jamesh> daf: since we were only using client certs to protect https://launchpad.net/errors/
[11:13] <daf> ok, I'll file an RT request
[11:14] <carlos> daf: yes
[11:14] <carlos> 9000 from the 17000 we had at the beginning
[11:14] <daf> ok
[11:15] <daf> how many PO templates need approving?
[11:15] <kiko> daf, I'm not sure about that, you'd need to look at rt
[11:15] <carlos> daf: 557 (https://launchpad.net/rosetta/imports/+index?status=NEEDS_REVIEW&type=pot)
[11:15] <daf> kiko: how do I do that?
[11:16] <carlos> daf: but many of them are KDE ones
[11:16] <daf> what does that mean?
[11:16] <carlos> and we should wait till the end of the week when we will get all .po files imported
[11:16] <carlos> and I implement some code to handle that special case
[11:16] <daf> wait before doing what?
[11:17] <carlos> daf: Riddell  will do a new upload of kde-i18n-* packages
[11:17] <daf> where's my "exclude KDE stuff" button?
[11:17] <carlos> daf: :-P
[11:17] <daf> :)
[11:18] <daf> what will the new upload do?
[11:19] <carlos> include the .po files
[11:19] <carlos> the .pot files are in other packages
[11:19] <daf> oh
[11:19] <daf> ew
[11:19] <daf> ok
[11:19] <carlos> daf: do you remember? kde layout sucks a bit...
[11:19] <daf> "a bit", yes
[11:19] <carlos> at least for Rosetta integration
[11:19] <daf> ignoring KDE stuff, then:
[11:20] <daf> is there any work to be done checking imports?
[11:20] <carlos> daf: kiko is approving things now and theren't much entries to handle after ignoring KDE templates
[11:21] <daf> they magically disappeared?
[11:21] <BjornT> stub: ping
[11:21] <carlos> daf: talking about .pot files
[11:22] <mpt> stub, ping
[11:24] <stub> mpt: pong
[11:24] <stub> BjornT: pong
[11:25] <jamesh> kiko: https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~dsilvers/paste/filefPDVTd.html
[11:25] <carlos> daf: kiko says that did most of the imports, so I guess you don't need to care
[11:25] <daf> whoa
[11:25] <daf> kiko: you da man
[11:26] <kiko> well, for potemplates anyway
[11:26] <carlos> jordi: you should take a look to the import queue to handle the new product imports requests
[11:26] <spiv> stub: for personal package archives, we want to make the librarian calculate md5s for files (to make it easy to generate Packages.gz etc)
[11:26] <spiv> stub: would you mind approving https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~dsilvers/paste/filelSCS2x.html ?
[11:27] <mpt> stub, when you approved that patch as LaunchpadDatabaseRevision VALUES (40, 32, 0), does that mean I should call it database/schema/patch-40-32-0.sql in my branch?
[11:27] <carlos> jordi: either approving them or rejecting them but we still have some old requests due the import queue problem we had
[11:27] <jordi> carlos: will do, in the evening
[11:27] <carlos> jordi: ok, thanks
[11:27] <jordi> body temperature at 37.2 degrees though.
[11:27] <jordi> Hopefully won't get worse.
[11:27] <carlos> jordi: you got the flu?
[11:28] <ddaa> http://bzr.arbash-meinel.com/plugins/shortlog
[11:28] <ddaa> oops
[11:28] <mpt> stub, and/or should there be a copy in approved/ ?
[11:28] <jordi> nah, yesterday I came back cycling and it was a bit too cold I guess
[11:28] <spiv> stub: we'll also want to run https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~dsilvers/paste/filezWRZiD.html on the librarian's file store.
[11:28] <stub> mpt: Yes.
[11:28] <BjornT> stub: i'd like to make cronscripts use the same mailers as we use in the webapp, instead of sending mail directly via smtp as is done today. do you see any problems doing so, and could you give me any pointers to code that i have to change?
[11:29] <stub> mpt: I don't know who created the 'approved' directory though
[11:29] <mpt> stub, I can nuke it if you like
[11:29] <stub> mpt: Sure
[11:29] <daf> mpt, BjornT: https://launchpad.net/products/malone/+bug/35646 -- thoughts?
[11:30] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 35646 in malone "Can see existing bugs for a project but can't add bugs" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  
[11:30] <stub> Anyone else running dapper lost their sounds?
[11:34] <BjornT> daf: i'll leave that bug to mpt, we need to explain things better in the ui.
[11:34] <carlos> stub: depend on the application
[11:35] <carlos> stub: gossip's sound stop working
[11:35] <carlos> stub: but gaim and GNOME are still playing them
[11:35] <carlos> stub: well, at least the login/logout sounds
[11:36] <lifeless> mpt: bug 35697
[11:36] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 35697 in launchpad "team page displays confusing count of direct members" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/35697
[11:37] <mpt> BjornT, that might very well not be a bug I can fix
[11:37] <mpt> There's nothing wrong with the UI, the count is wrong :-)
[11:38] <mpt> (except for all the other things that are wrong with the UI)
[11:38] <lifeless> mpt: well, have you read it ?
[11:38] <lifeless> its sortof ui sortof not
[11:39] <lifeless> anyhow, over to you :)
[11:39] <carlos> stub: Something is wrong with my permissions on launchpad_staging database
[11:39] <carlos> stub: I can connect to it
[11:39] <carlos> but I cannot execute a query:
[11:39] <carlos> launchpad_staging=> SELECT id, path from translationimportqueueentry where sourcepackagename IN (SELECT id from sourcepackagename where name like 'openoffice%') order by path;
[11:39] <carlos> ERROR:  permission denied for relation translationimportqueueentry
[11:39] <mpt> lifeless, you showed the bug to me, and now I've read the bug report, and the count is still wrong.
[11:40] <carlos> stub: in fact... I cannot execute any query
[11:42] <lifeless> mpt  ok :)
[11:43] <daf> mpt: what do you think about putting a "[ ]  Subscribe" next to the [Submit]  button on the unfolded add-a-comment form?
[11:43] <mpt> daf, I would much rather put it at the bottom of the list of subscribers
[11:43] <daf> a checkbox in the portlet?
[11:44] <mpt> yes
[11:44] <daf> would that be the same form?
[11:44] <mpt> no, but it should be
[11:44] <daf> see, I would be unsure about whether that would cause an immediate change or a change that would happen when I submitted my comment
[11:45] <daf> and how I could subscribe without adding a comment
[11:45] <daf> my use case is "I want to be able to subscribe and add a comment in one page load"
[11:45] <mpt> right
[11:45] <daf> maybe I'm not visualising your proposed UI correctly
[11:46] <mpt> so the button should be labelled "Confirm Changes", outside the expanded section, not so close to the comment field
[11:46] <daf> oh, hmm
[11:46] <daf> that sounds better
[11:47] <daf> (implying, of course, "not as good as my idea" ;))
[11:59] <daf> mpt: https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-x-swat/+packagebugs
[12:00] <daf> mpt: perhaps the "in Ubuntu" part can be factored out into a heading
[12:00] <daf> or into a colspan=5 table row
[12:01] <mpt> hmmm, that is interesting
[12:01] <daf> shall I file a bug?
[12:01] <mpt> yes
[12:01] <daf> or would you like to?
[12:01] <daf> ok
[12:01] <mpt> hmm, I'll do it
[12:01] <daf> thanks
[12:01] <mpt> we need two ways of referring to a package
[12:02] <mpt> depending on whether we're already in the context
[12:02] <mpt> probably the same refers to a distro arch release binary package and so on
[12:02] <mpt> actually, we probably already have that data
[12:02] <daf> I'm thinking that "xlibs (Ubuntu)"/"xlibs (Ubuntu Dapper)" is often a preferable formatting to "xlibs in Ubuntu"/"xlibs in Ubuntu Dapper"
[12:02] <mpt> oh, totally
[12:02] <daf> rather than a one-size-fits-all displayname
[12:02] <mpt> that table is probably just using displayname when it should be using name
[12:03] <mpt> but it's probably a macro so it doesn't know any better
[12:03] <daf> well, getting you to think about it was my goal
[12:03] <daf> so my work here is done :)
[12:06] <mpt> ohhhh
[12:06] <mpt> that's not a distro-specific page
[12:06] <daf> it's not, no
[12:10] <stub> carlos: Staging is still rebuilding. It is running late today because it had to wait until the PG81 upgrade was done.
[12:13] <carlos> stub: oh, I see. Ok
[12:19] <seb128> hi
[12:19] <kiko> ho
[12:19] <seb128> kiko: https://launchpad.net/people/seb128/+packages having outdated informations is a known issue?
[12:19] <seb128> kiko: "ubuntulooks   	 Ubuntu Dapper   	 0.9.0-1   	 2006-03-09 17:10:04 UTC  	 sparc  powerpc  ia64  i386  amd64"
[12:20] <seb128> where current package is 0.9.8
[12:20] <seb128> and it builds fine since 0.9.0-2
[12:20] <kiko> and the current package is not displayed?
[12:20] <seb128> oh
[12:20] <seb128> it lists all the updates
[12:20] <seb128> I've said nothing :p
[12:20] <kiko> right. it will stop doing that this week, though
[12:20] <seb128> I was expecting to have current upload of every package
[12:20] <kiko> it makes the page too heavy and I don't think it's very useful
[12:20] <kiko> that's what it will do this week.
[12:21] <kiko> seb128, did you like that page?
[12:22] <seb128> kiko: yeah, it rocks, it has a lot of useful information and is well organized
[12:22] <seb128> well done :)
[12:22] <kiko> wow, cool to hear. thanks :)
[12:23] <seb128> ;)
[12:26] <fabbione> kiko: consigliere.. why launchpad is wasting my preciuos time listing me over and over all the closed bugs BY DEFAULT?
[12:27] <kiko> possibly because of a bug. bradb?
[12:27] <mpt> yes, I reported the bug a few days ago
[12:28] <bradb> fabbione: bug 34046
[12:28] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 34046 in malone "Default search shouldn't include "Fix Released" bugs" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/34046
[12:28] <fabbione> thanks
[12:28] <fabbione> ETA for the fix?
[12:29] <bradb> fabbione: if it's me to fix it, then probably two weeks.
[12:29] <mpt> matsubara!
[12:29] <bradb> matsubara's the man for this, i think
[12:30] <fabbione> kiko: ETA for that fix?
[12:30] <fabbione> bradb: sorry i can't cope with 2 weeks in what i am doing now
[12:30] <fabbione> i need stuff done 
[12:30] <bradb> i can appreciate that
[12:31] <fabbione> when i need to go trough 200 or more bugs, i can't waste 20 minutes each round to sort what's already fixed and what's not..
[12:31] <mpt> fabbione, tomorrow-ish
[12:31] <fabbione> too time consuming
[12:31] <fabbione> ok
[12:44] <carlos> daf: 8904 entries to go
[12:45] <carlos> go kiko, go!
[01:12] <dilys> Merge to devel/launchpad/: r=spiv Major performance work on the 12 top timeout pages in Launchpad. Refactors, caches and actually bugfixes a number of bits of database and browser code. Reduces base number of COUNT(*) queries in Batching from 3 to 1. Should fix over a dozen timeout bugs (which will require archeology to actually discover); will confirm in production, but should include: person-packages, cveset-all, distrorelease-packaging, person-translation
[01:13] <daf> yo!
[01:13] <daf> kiko: you overflowed dilys
[01:13] <G0SUB> daf: is that a bot?
[01:14] <daf> yes
[01:14] <G0SUB> what does it do?
[01:14] <daf> she reports commits to our bzr repository
[01:14] <G0SUB> I see
[01:14] <G0SUB> that was a big changelog :)
[01:14] <daf> for Launchpad, mostly
[01:14] <daf> yeah, really big
[01:14] <daf> kiko has been bisy
[01:14] <daf> busy
[01:14] <G0SUB> I see ... you guys rock
[01:15] <mpt> dilys needs a better name
[01:15] <Kinnison> dilys is a perfectly good name
[01:16] <daf> for whose benefit?
[01:16] <G0SUB> what about Zmanda ?
[01:16] <Kinnison> dilys: speak girl
[01:16] <dilys> dilys is a perfectly valid name
[01:16] <daf> (groan)
[01:17] <G0SUB> hehe
[01:18] <bradb> (again)
[01:19] <mpt> launchpad-changes
[01:19] <bradb> bah, too literal!
[01:19] <dilys> not that I report bugs any more
[01:20] <mpt> It would save having to answer the "Who's dilys?" question all the time
[01:21] <daf> I think the change would negate the time saved :)
[01:21] <bradb> The bot might also process bug reports.
[01:22] <mpt> ok, bradb just volunteered to implement the IrcNotifications spec
[01:22] <mpt> I will not discuss this further </welch>
[01:22] <mpt> :-)
[01:39] <dilys> Merge to devel/launchpad/: [trivial]  Ensure Retry exceptions are propagated to the publisher (r3285: Stuart Bishop)
[01:40] <stub> Goddamnit
[01:40] <stub> Add the debug shite so I can see wtf is going on with the test failure, and the damn thing lands!
[01:51] <stub> It would be fairly simple (maybe 10 lines, plus updating the tests) to normalize karma so that the total karma allocated to people in each category is equal (ie. if there are a total of 1,000,000 karma points allocated under the 'translation' category, the 'bugs' and 'support' categories would also each have a total of 1,000,000 points allocated each).
[01:53] <stub> I'm not sure if this is a good idea though, as we have 7 categories. Perhaps just normalize the major ones that have a decent number of karma events attached (translations, bugs, support) leaving specs, registry bounties and misc to fend for themselves?
[01:53] <stub> Or we could scale these too - just not as much
[01:53] <kiko> I think scaling specs is a nice idea
[01:53] <kiko> and I think the general scaling proposal is a good one
[01:53] <kiko> it would help us with the current situation
[02:02] <dilys> Merge to devel/launchpad/: [r=stub]  PPA table tweaks, system redesign (r3286: Celso Providelo)
[02:46] <dilys> Merge to devel/launchpad/: [trivial]  Remove debug shite (r3286: Stuart Bishop)
[03:22] <dilys> Merge to devel/launchpad/: [r=stub]  PPA table tweaks, system redesign (r3286: Celso Providelo)
[03:26] <carlos> stub: hi, do you need help with the potemplate removal request?
[03:27] <stub> carlos: it is running now
[03:28] <stub> Lots of poselections being removed...
[03:28] <carlos> stub: that's ok
[03:28] <carlos> stub: as long as you are removing only the ones I asked ;-)
[03:29] <carlos> I think I'm going to implement a way to do this removals from our UI + a cron script....
[03:29] <carlos> so I don't need to bore you again with this kind of issues
[03:30] <carlos> as you already have code for it, I guess it should be easy, right?
[03:31] <stub> carlos: potemplates deleted
[03:31] <carlos> stub: cool, thanks
[03:32] <carlos> stub: hmmm, what about the potemplatenames? O:-)
[03:32] <stub> carlos: To do the deletion properly, you need to scan for references to the potemplate table in a similar manner to the people merge code, as then we can guarantee that the deletion will work.
[03:33] <carlos> ok
[03:44] <kiko> stub, did you see my landing there? there's also a new branch I am working on that should be landable today.
[03:45] <kiko> fixes the last 4 performance issues I've identified this week
[03:45] <kiko> stub, did you Retry fix go in?
[03:51] <dilys> Merge to devel/launchpad/: [r=kiko]  update PO parser to decode to unicode earlier, fixing Big5 parsing (r3286: James Henstridge)
[03:51] <carlos> go, go, go
[03:51] <carlos> Chinese files will be able to be imported now ;-)
[03:52] <stub> kiko: yes - retry fix has landed.
[03:52] <stub> kiko: I saw your landing but didn't read the log too closly - lots of it
[03:54] <carlos> stub: I will need some extra cherry picks for next production rollout
[03:54] <carlos> stub: how do you want to handle it?
[03:54] <carlos> do you have already the new production branch?
[03:54] <carlos> so I would handle that cherry pick for you
[03:55] <carlos> to fix any conflicts/test failures
[03:55] <stub> carlos: I'll likely land head as of today on wednesday. So just land.
[03:55] <carlos> ok
[03:55] <carlos> stub: thanks
[03:59] <stub> carlos: Dud potemplatenames deleted
[04:00] <carlos> stub: hmmm, while you are on it, if you remove the potemplatename rows too, would be wonderful, anyway, I'm going to implement also a removal feature for it...
[04:00] <kiko> ddaa, https://chinstrap.warthogs.hbd.com/~jamesh/pending-reviews/david/launchpad/product-branch-listing/full-diff
[04:00] <carlos> stub: thank you very much
[04:01] <carlos> no more xx-deprecated... potemplates on our UI
[04:01] <carlos> jordi: ^^^
[04:01] <kiko> ddaa, I don't know if that branch is necessary, but if you feel it is, it is [trivial]  or rs=kiko -- addings tests is an easy one
[04:04] <ddaa> easy to review too :)
[04:06] <ddaa> IMO it's necessary, since I felt the need to actually implement it at some point :) Call my eccentric if you want.
[04:08] <kiko> do it
[04:17] <ddaa> sent
[04:19] <rlaager> How can I register the upstream bug tracker for a product already listed in Launchpad/Malone.
[04:20] <bradb> rlaager: Follow the link under "Part of:" in the portlet on the left.
[04:20] <bradb> rlaager: This takes you to the project, and from there, you can register a bug tracker on that project.
[04:20] <bradb> . o O (clunky, no doubt)
[04:21] <bradb> rlaager: "Follow the link"...off the product's home page, I meant to say.
[04:22] <rlaager> bradb: I don't follow.
[04:23] <bradb> rlaager: So, the URL path for the homepage of the product would be something like /products/$productname, e.g., https://launchpad.net/products/malone
[04:24] <rlaager> right
[04:24] <bradb> There's a portlet on the top left of that page, showing things like External links, Registration, Translation Groups, etc.
[04:25] <bradb> There's a "Part of:" section in that portlet, linking to the project (the umbrella for a set of related products.)
[04:25] <bradb> see that?
[04:25] <rlaager> I see "External links", "Registration", etc., but no "Part of"
[04:25] <rlaager> In case I wasn't clear... I'm not the person that registered this project. I'm from the upstream project.
[04:26] <bradb> rlaager: What URL are you looking at?
[04:26] <jamesh> rlaager: bug trackers get linked to projects ratehr than products in LP
[04:26] <rlaager> https://launchpad.net/products/gaim
[04:26] <stub> Anyone wanna do a quick review? https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~dsilvers/paste/fileOVvrEu.html
[04:27] <SteveA> stub: i'll do it
[04:29] <rlaager> bradb: Any thoughts?
[04:29] <bradb> rlaager: Hm, this looks like a bug.
[04:30] <bradb> rlaager: There needs to be a project to link to currently, but even if you did register a project, I don't know of a way to link an existing product to an existing project.
[04:31] <bradb> rlaager: I'll open a bug on this then.
[04:31] <stub> lifeless: pqm is rooted. r3286 has landed 3 times now.
[04:31] <rlaager> Also, FYI, the OpenPGP key page says it's sending an e-mail to my address, encrypted to my key. The e-mail was sent unencrypted.
[04:32] <jamesh> rlaager: does your key have an encryption subkey?
[04:33] <rlaager> jamesh: Yes. I'll make sure there is still a valid one.
[04:33] <jamesh> sounds like a bad status message.
[04:34] <jamesh> rlaager: we use a different verification method for sign-only keys
[04:34] <rlaager> jamesh: I see that. Seems I'm an idiot. My subkey has expired.
[04:35] <lifeless> stub checking
[04:37] <stub> lifeless: I emailed you a failure message from pqm - looks like something is locked.
[04:37] <bradb> rlaager: bug 35728
[04:37] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 35728 in malone "Registering a bug tracker is prohibitively difficult" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/35728
[04:37] <lifeless> stub: I was just going to say that
[04:38] <lifeless> stub - its a two phase commit
[04:39] <dilys> Merge to devel/launchpad/: [rs=kiko]  pagetest for branch listing on product page (r3286: David Allouche)
[04:40] <kiko> cool
[04:40] <lifeless> stub - the first commit does the email, but if the puiblication to chinstrap fails, it rolls back.
[04:40] <lifeless> it will fail.
[04:42] <lifeless> ok, unlocked.
[04:42] <rlaager> bradb: Okay. I've subscribed to that bug.
[04:44] <stub> cprov, jamesh, ddaa: You will need to land those branches just committed again
[04:45] <lifeless> stubs - I mailed the list ;)
[04:45] <ddaa> I guess stub means "you will need to resend your recent merge requests"
[04:45] <ddaa> lifeless: do people actually manage to read any mail while on a sprint???
[04:46] <spiv> I do :P
[04:46] <rlaager> So, where can I find out how to become an Ubuntu packager?
[04:46] <lifeless> #ubuntu-motu
[04:46] <lifeless> rlaager: ^^
[05:04] <dilys> Merge to devel/launchpad/: [rs=kiko]  pagetest for branch listing on product page (r3286: David Allouche)
[05:04] <kiko> wtf?
[05:07] <rlaager> One more question... What PGP keyserver does Launchpad use?
[05:08] <kiko> rlaager, a keyserver hosted at canonical -- keyserver.ubuntu.com, IIRC
[05:14] <rlaager> kiko: Thanks. I was just checking to make sure it wasn't using an old PKS server, as that would cause problems with keys like mine with multiple subkeys.
[05:15] <dholbach> hello
[05:16] <dholbach> the guy with the launchpad login "armin76" tried to sign up for the ubuntu-dev team, but does not seem to have a mail address set
[05:19] <carlos> dholbach: did he log in?
[05:19] <jamesh> dholbach: he has opted to keep his email address hidden
[05:19] <carlos> dholbach: you are suppose to confirm your email address the first time you login 
[05:19] <dholbach> jamesh: I see.... hmmm
[05:20] <carlos> oh, I thought he was complaining about something ;-)
[05:24] <dholbach> no i'm not complaining, but it's kind of hard to contact people (most of them try to sign up for a team, without knowing what it means and what is required of them)
[05:25] <jordi> carlos: jesus
[05:25] <jordi> stub is like spring santa claus
[05:25] <carlos> jordi: ?
[05:26] <jordi> the deprecated templates
[05:26] <kiko> dholbach, just deny :)
[05:27] <carlos> jordi: ;-)
[05:27] <dholbach> kiko: I'm not in such a position.
[05:27] <carlos> jordi: and all potemplates on dapper that weren't for main
[05:27] <carlos> s/for/from/
[05:27] <jordi> carlos: yay
[05:28] <jordi> the only large cleanup now is the old es_*, etc translations
[05:28] <carlos> jordi: yeah
[05:28] <carlos> jordi: and all the review-* templates
[05:28] <carlos> but that's another history...
[05:28] <carlos> let's finish first with dapper
[05:30] <jordi> yes
[06:04] <dilys> Merge to devel/launchpad/: [r=spiv]  Fixeg bug #1572 that prevents some .po exports if the declared charset is not able to decode one of the translations given by the user using Rosetta. Now it's exported as UTF-8 if we have this problem. (r3287: Carlos Perello Marin)
[06:04] <carlos> there we go
[06:06] <carlos> lifeless: I have the feeling that my pqm merge requests take much more time than other people requests... would that be possible? 
[06:08] <spiv> carlos: No, they're all slow ;)
[06:09] <spiv> carlos: The test suite takes ~20 min to run, I think, and in addition to that it has to bzr merge your branch into rocketfuel, which can take a variable amount of time depending on how much your branch diverged.
[06:09] <carlos> spiv: well the ones after lunch were really fast....
[06:09] <carlos> perhaps the problem is that my changes are not trivial....
[06:09] <carlos> :-P
[06:09] <spiv> Also, merge failures are much faster for it to process, because it doesn't need to run the test suite ;)
[06:09] <spiv> (i.e. conflicts)
[06:10] <spiv> Plus I've spotted lifeless pressing the GO SLOW button on pqm whenever he sees you at the top of the queue ;)
[06:15] <Kinnison> Umm guys, why do we have six revision 3286s ?
[06:17] <cprov> Kinnison: pqm faced a stalled lock file when pushing ...
[06:17] <Kinnison> aah
[06:18] <Kinnison> oh yeah
[06:18] <Kinnison> PQM should send a mail to let the commits list know if that happens
[06:18] <Kinnison> otherwise people think they've merged okay
[06:19] <spiv> Kinnison: It does, it sends another commit message with the same revision number as soon as another merge almost succeeds ;)
[06:19] <Kinnison> blah
[06:20] <cprov> spiv: ehe
[06:20] <carlos> spiv: ;-)
[06:23] <lifeless> Kinnison: it tells the committer
[06:24] <Kinnison> lifeless: anyway it could hold off sending the mail until it has pushed successfully? Like in LP where we hold mails until we can commit the db txn?
[06:25] <lifeless> Kinnison: the annouonce mail is sent by bzr
[06:25] <lifeless> Kinnison: unless/until we teach bzr about two-phase commit, the answer is no.
[06:26] <Kinnison> :(
[06:26] <lifeless> Kinnison: when we next update bzr for pqm it should be bound branch ready, and then pqm can use bound branches for its commits, which will have that effect
[06:26] <Kinnison> Or you could make PQM send the mail
[06:26] <Kinnison> :-)
[06:26] <lifeless> Kinnison: ugh
[06:26] <jamesh> or use NFS
[06:26] <lifeless> jamesh: what does NFS have to do with it ?
[06:27] <jamesh> lifeless: could that remove the need for the final push?
[06:27] <lifeless> no
[06:27] <jamesh> oh well
[06:28] <spiv> lifeless: http://rafb.net/paste/results/owFv8p53.html
[06:28] <lifeless> pqm needs a local, copy, of the tree to work with so it can chroot. If you chroot -safely- into NFS, then you'd have at best, a freaking mess.
[06:28] <lifeless> :)
[06:29] <dilys> Merge to devel/launchpad/: [r=SteveA]  Propogate Retry exception handling and normalize cached karma per category (r3288: Stuart Bishop)
[06:56] <dilys> Merge to devel/launchpad/: [r=stub]  PPA table tweaks, system redesign (r3289: Celso Providelo)
[07:06] <lifeless> cprov - I'm see weird sftp errors inside the dc.
[07:06] <lifeless> cprov please try again. I hope this will improve after knits
[07:06] <lifeless> I have unlocked it
[07:08] <cprov> lifeless: okay, thanks 
[07:26] <salgado> jamesh, was it you who once blogged about the python equivalent of bash's "set -x"?
[07:28] <jamesh> salgado: yeah.  You can use trace.py
[07:31] <salgado> ah, good. thanks jamesh
[07:35] <carlos> lifeless: pqm.launchpad.net gives me a Bad Gateway error. Are you aware of that problem?
[07:36] <spiv> carlos: see the other channel :P
[07:36] <carlos> ok, ;-)
[07:44] <lifeless> calpqm server was awol
[07:45] <carlos> lifeless: ok
[07:59] <spiv> After all that, dilys didn't even announce SFTP landing!
[08:04] <lifeless> yes, balleny went offline at the crucial time
[08:14] <paulproteus|lapt> How do I create a project that *does* use Malone as its bug tracker?
[08:15] <paulproteus|lapt> I've created a project, and I want to use Malone for it.
[08:15] <paulproteus|lapt> Ooh, got it.
[08:15] <spiv> paulproteus|lapt: There's a link with a name link "define usage"
[08:15] <spiv> s/name link/name like/
[08:16] <paulproteus|lapt> Yes, that's what I figured out. (-:
[08:35] <carlos> dilys: you are sleepy, I did a merge!
[08:49] <AlinuxOS> carlos, hello :)
[08:49] <AlinuxOS> is now dapper fully on lauchpad ?
[08:51] <mdke> AlinuxOS, when it is, I'm guessing there will be an announcement
[08:51] <carlos> AlinuxOS: hi
[08:51] <carlos> no, not yet
[08:52] <carlos> we are importing it
[08:52] <carlos> KDE is not yet imported
[08:52] <carlos> and there are other packages still pending to be imported
[08:52] <carlos> AlinuxOS: as mdke points, we will announce it
[08:52] <carlos> don't worry
[08:54] <AlinuxOS> oook
[08:54] <AlinuxOS> carlos, thanks
[08:54] <AlinuxOS> for the moment I'm commiting for "mother gnome"
[08:56] <AlinuxOS> hope that I'll see the results in imported gnome on launchpad :) 
[08:56] <AlinuxOS> carlos, good night amigo :)
[08:57] <carlos> AlinuxOS: good night ;-)
[09:23] <spiv> The authserver has been updated... let me know if you spot any weirdness, but it's looking good to me.
[11:15] <dilys> Merge to devel/launchpad/: [r=jamesh]  SFTP server for bzr push branches, as described in SupermirrorFilesystemHierarchy. (r3289: Andrew Bennetts)
[11:19] <carlos> so, this hotel should implement a 'The Internet connection will be shutted down in 5 minutes... please, move to your new rom NOW!'
[11:21] <dilys> Merge to devel/launchpad/: [r=kiko]  update PO parser to decode to unicode earlier, fixing Big5 parsing (r3292: James Henstridge)
[11:21] <jamesh> yay
[11:27] <jamesh> carlos: so, if this one doesn't get rolled back, it should be in ...
[11:28] <carlos> jamesh: cool, thank you!
[11:30] <carlos> time to fix my conflicts...
[11:37] <dilys> Merge to devel/launchpad/: [r=stub]  PPA table tweaks, system redesign (r3291: Celso Providelo)
[11:40] <dilys> Merge to devel/launchpad/: [r=Bjorn] [trivial]  Implemented form autofilling to the translation import queue form review from data we know or data we can guess + pagetests for it. (r3290: Carlos Perello Marin)
[11:40] <carlos> dilys: it's a bit late, isn't it? ...