/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2006/03/27/#edubuntu.txt

=== thedarkener [n=thedarke@adsl-69-109-210-153.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #edubuntu
thedarkenerWhat's up everyone - I'm considering Edubuntu for a customer of mine (I'm a network consultant and fluent in linux) - Does Edubuntu have any types of internet / URL filtering mechanism?12:08
Burgworkthedarkener, currently not packaged12:09
ograsure12:10
Burgworkavailable, however12:10
ograthere are squidguard and dansguardian ... they are in universe, not preinstalled and not configured by default though12:10
thedarkenerawesome... now I've never done a true terminal server setup, if i installed squidguard though, i'm assuming i could just install it on the term. svr and it will effect all clients?12:12
ograthe users are logged in on the server ...12:12
ograso what you want is to shape the network access there, not on the clients ...12:13
ograthink of the clients as additional mouse/monitor/keyboard for the server, nothing else ...12:14
thedarkenerright... ok stupid question. ;) do any of you have exp. in squidguard or dansguardian? I've never used either but would like to know impressions of each12:14
ograboth need frequent updates of black/whitelists ...12:14
Burgworkwe use dansguardian at work here. It works if you maintain them12:14
ograand you'll need someone on site who knows it ...12:14
thedarkener<--- someone who will need to know it12:15
thedarkener;)12:15
thedarkenermaintenance...is there a global blacklist to maintain? or are you just talking about users complaining they can't get to site X?12:15
ograthe thing is, the setup for such a filtering is a bit tricky ...12:15
thedarkeneri'm fluent in iptables/firewalls so i don't think the technical aspect will be too difficult for me12:16
thedarkenerjust a bit confused as to "maintenance"12:16
ograyou need to maintain the rules and restrictions ...12:17
thedarkeneri'm sorry if i'm being dumb... can you define 'maintain' on a more technical level for me?12:17
ograkeep the lists up to date :)12:18
thedarkenerlol12:18
thedarkenerdo they have expiration dates? =)12:18
ograadd/remove entries :)12:18
ogranope, but the web changes ...12:18
thedarkenerok...well i guess i already knew that, just confused12:19
thedarkenerhehe12:19
ogramy preferred solution we hopefully will ship with the october release is willow...12:19
thedarkenerhrm12:19
ograit uses bayesian filtering and is able to update itself12:19
thedarkenertell me more12:19
thedarkenernice12:19
ograadditionally to white and blacklists you can define12:19
thedarkeneri'm not sure i agree with bayesian filtering, but again like i said i've never used filtering software before and my customer probably wouldn't mind a more restrictive ruleset than allowing others12:20
thedarkenerof course a whitelist might seem like a better idea..12:20
thedarkenerbut i won't get into a religious battle ;)12:20
thedarkenerThank you guys very much12:21
ograif you have a customer that wants strict rules, thats fine12:21
ograif you have to teach biology at school and your students shall look up stuff about pregnate teens that had sex before 15,, that gets tricky 12:22
thedarkenerhaha12:22
thedarkenertrue12:22
thedarkenerwell how bout this12:22
ograthats where the maintenance gets really hard 12:22
thedarkenerwhat about access restrictions? i'm sure edubuntu is good at restricting shell access to sudoers, etc. right? admin tasks?12:23
ograits not as good as it should in breezy ... i'd suggest to wait for the dapper (july) release12:23
ograthere you can completely control the desktop access of users12:23
ograit also hides all admin task entries in the menu if youre not in the appropriate group12:24
thedarkenerooooo nice12:24
ograbreezy didnt do that ...12:24
ograpessulus and sabayon enable you to create lockdown profiles for different groups of users12:25
thedarkenerin gnome specifically i presume?12:25
enycdarn12:26
enycran out f disk space12:26
enycthis edubuntu builds a while LTSP root thing12:26
enycks...12:26
enycso...12:26
enyctoo much space usage ;-(12:26
thedarkenerick12:26
thedarkenerhehe12:26
ografor the default install you should have ~3G free space ...12:27
thedarkenerthat shouldn't be a problem12:27
ograltsp eats some space for the chroot ... and the educational apps are big as well ... so edubuntu is a bit bigger than ubuntu 12:27
enycheh12:27
enycdarn12:27
enycthis is a weir dlaptop with a 2gb disk;-)12:28
thedarkenertime to delete some apps ;)12:28
enycso thats why it wont fit then ;-)12:28
thedarkenerfor a server? wow12:28
thedarkenerhehe12:28
thedarkenernice try thou12:28
enycnot for server12:28
enycjust default install12:28
ograit will get tight, but you could try the workstation install :)12:28
enyci see i see12:28
ograthe default install is the server install ...12:28
enyci was jsut stesting the new edubuntu-instaler fluight-5 for you....12:28
enyci see isee12:28
enycaah12:28
enyco12:28
ograit installs ltsp ...12:28
enyci se12:28
enycewhich installs a seaparate image ?12:29
enycfor the ltsp root12:29
ograyep, its a separate system inside the system ...12:29
enycbasically a copy of everything12:29
enyci see12:29
enycbut..12:29
enychow does that get updated later etc. /12:29
enyc?12:29
enycwith updated packages in the host system and soforth12:29
ograsudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 apt-get update 12:30
ograsudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 apt-get upgrade12:30
enycaah so you have to do that separately12:30
ograthats it :)12:30
enyci see12:30
enycand you can have a separate chroot for powerpc and thigns?12:30
ograyep, but it gets tricky to set up powerpc on i386 ...12:30
enyci see12:30
ograhttp://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/LTSPManager/12:30
enycqemu can be handy !12:30
ograwill have a tool to care for updates at some point12:31
ograquemu is far from being usable for that 12:31
ograi did tests 12:31
enychrrmm12:31
enycdarn12:31
enyckk12:31
enycqemu ahs the user-mode-emulation so you can run  ppc binary and thinsg12:31
ograyep, i experimented with it ... i think it might be ready for revisiting in two or three ubuntu releases 12:32
Burgworkogra, with regards to the UI for ltsp manager, you might want to consider http://developer.gnome.org/projects/gup/hig/2.0/controls-notebooks.html12:33
ograits for sure not mature enough ... 12:33
Burgworkand you might want to consider changing the first run into an actual wizard12:33
enycerm12:33
ograwhat for ? 12:33
Burgworkthe build ltsp enviroment section?12:34
enychow are toools like that pictured for 'LTSPmanager' written?12:34
ograyou only can select one thing (if any, thats even a cornercase) and watch the progressbar12:34
enycwith all those menus and everything...12:34
enycsome kind of scripting thing?12:34
ograthats glade and python12:34
enycaaaaaaaha12:34
ograglade for the gui, python for the rest12:34
enycthats really really handy12:35
ograBurgwork, it will be a prerequisite for running the whole app ... a wizard is really overkill here, i think ...12:35
enycamazing how all these FOSS programming tools have come along well12:35
Burgworkogra, a wizard can be a single screen. It is more about consistency12:36
ograyou either click ok and let it create the chroot or you dont and the app exits12:36
ograand all you get is a progressbar ... i dotn want to scare people with too much output ...12:36
ograconsistency with what btw ? 12:37
Burgworkany other setup dialog12:38
Burgworkobserve the xchat-gnome or evolution ones12:38
ogra<-- is the biggest wizard hater he personally knows12:38
BurgworkI am not much of fan, but they can well written12:38
ograyes, thats one of the reasons i dont use xchat-gnome ;)12:38
crimsunthe gajim one isn't horrible12:38
ograand i dont like the evo one ...12:39
=== ogra installs gajim
Burgworkhttp://www.redhat.com/magazine/001nov04/features/evolution/figs/evo-setup.png12:39
Burgworkthat is what I am talking about12:40
Burgworkjust make it one page, with a "create ltsp" button12:40
ograyep, thats what i was talking about as well 12:40
=== iGotNoTime [n=joshua@cpe-65-189-240-199.woh.res.rr.com] has joined #edubuntu
Burgworkthat is what you hate?12:40
Burgworkfor me, it is about "feels like, smells like, is" idea12:41
ograa huuuge ugly and scary window for a single sentence 12:41
Burgworkone sentence?12:41
ograand even the classic "Please click the forward button" *shudder*12:41
Burgworkyou don't need the splash screen12:41
Burgworkhttp://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/LTSPManager/ltsp-manager_build_client.png12:42
Burgworkthat has a lot more than one sentence12:42
ograyes12:42
ograits a prototype of an app ;)12:42
Burgworkthat is the page I would convert12:42
iGotNoTimeI have nothing but frustration with the other distros! None would recognize my wifi card in my laptop. I finally installed Edubuntu and it works.12:42
Burgworkand then just jump to a dialog box with a prgress bar12:42
iGotNoTimeSo ogra I will be with you all for a while I guess :)12:43
ograthe sentence can go away 12:43
BurgworkIt should say "Choose your client's processor type"12:43
iGotNoTimeDoes Edubuntu somehow utilize the ndiswrapper automatically?12:43
ogra(the arch selection will only happen on multiarch systems, people setting up multiple arches wont want to use the gui for maintaining it, they'll do way more fine grained configs)12:44
Burgworkis there a use case for allowing people to install two arches on the same machine?12:44
iGotNoTimeeven in Ku I couldn't edit the settings :P12:44
Burgworkie, should it be checkboxes?12:44
ograyes, there is, but you cant do it at the same time ...12:44
ograso checkboxes would be pointless ... you can only have one choice12:45
Burgworkyou can't create two environments at the same time?12:45
ograbut as i said, the case of multiarches does only happen in very specific cases12:45
ograyou can create 100, but your guis wont repond anymore and it will take ages ;)12:46
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ograbootstrapping is a very slow process done over the network ... :)12:46
Burgworkrealistically we are only looking at 4 or 5 arches, no?12:46
ogranope12:46
ogra312:46
NickGarveyis there a site that I would be able to give to a network admin at my school to help nudge him to make a room linux based?  and my school uses a windows based network, would they be able to set up linux to access the network?  I have heard of samba but I am unsure after reading their site what it allows linux clients to do12:46
Burgworkwhat about sunrays?12:47
ograltsp only knows powerpc, i386 and amd64 12:47
ograi have a sparc patch that waits for dapper+1 12:47
Burgworkah12:47
Burgworkregardless, this is dapper+1 stuff12:47
ogranobody confirmed sparc being official in dapper ...12:47
Burgworkwe can talk UI for an LTSP manager at the next conference12:47
Burgworkthe fact that it exists is cool enough12:48
ogranote that there will also be a menu at the top ....12:49
ograi havent had time for a mockup yet ...12:49
ograthere shall be some menu driven actions ...12:49
iGotNoTimeBurgwork, considering that UI for LTSP and what NickGarvey is asking about could you tell me what this is? http://www.redianet.com/img/pantallazo2.gif12:50
iGotNoTimeis that not similar to what NickGarvey is asking for?12:50
iGotNoTimeHigh Voltage gave a link to that a few days ago12:51
Burgworkthat is a program to control and view students deskops12:51
ograNickGarvey, samba should integrate any linux system fine into a windows network ... i'd suggest the o'rilley samba book ...12:52
BurgworkNickGarvey is asking for help about how to use samba to file share in a windows environment12:52
iGotNoTimeIt appears to be a way the 'teacher' could monitor the 'students' desktops and activites?12:52
iGotNoTimeok I am way off base then :(12:52
Burgworkdon't worry about it12:52
iGotNoTimeducking back embarassed again :P12:52
Burgworkthe only way to learn is to chew on a few toes first :)12:53
iGotNoTime:P12:53
NickGarveyok so samba would do the job based on what my school would need?12:53
NickGarveysounds like it but want to be sure :)12:53
ograwhat exactly *does* your school need ... ?12:53
BurgworkNickGarvey, access the network covers such a broad range ...12:54
Burgworkif they mean, surf the internet, routers and cables don't care what OS is pushing them12:54
Burgworkif you mean connecting to windows shares, then samba is what you need12:54
ograas i said, samba will bring your linux machines into a win based network ... but samba cant replace a windows PDC completely for example12:54
NickGarveyhoping to do a ltsp connection, have a linux server, and that server be able to access the windows network on the school system, access internet12:54
Burgworkif you mean AD single sign on, you need samba4, which isn't out yet12:55
ograno problem then12:55
ograBurgwork, he didnt talk about AD :)12:55
NickGarveywhat is AD?12:55
ograactive directory 12:55
NickGarveyto google!12:55
ograa windows authentication mechanism12:55
ogra(in fact its microsoft raping ldap and kerberos)12:56
NickGarveyI do not believe it is like that..12:57
NickGarveyI'm a sophormore, this will be a junior or senior project, plenty of time to learn up12:57
ograjust having sammba working on the linux machine should already give you what you want ... edubuntu installs ltsp and samba for you, you just need to configure the samba stuff ...12:58
NickGarveyone last question, is there an easy way I could test if the computers were network booting compatible? I can easily run the knoppix terminal server, and I can boot it from my laptop for instance, but not one of the desktops, even though I turned it on in the BIOS, and thus I would like to try to do a quick test to find out if those computers could boot from a terminal server before setting it all up12:59
ograyou can always use a ootflopy or bootCD to make them netbootable :)12:59
ogra*bootfloppy01:00
NickGarveyoh alright thats excellent01:00
NickGarveythanks a lot, lets hope I can convince them to upgrade to linux :)01:00
ograhttps://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuDocumentation/BootingClientsWithoutPxe01:01
NickGarveyoh good thank you, ubuntu/edubuntu has great documentation, one of my favorite parts of the distro01:02
ogra:)01:02
=== Burgwork smiles
ograBurgwork, btw, kodos to the docteam, i read the server guide on the weekend ... thats waesome documentation ...01:04
ogra*awesome01:04
BurgworkI will pass that along01:04
ograi still have to write a ton of ltsp howtos ...01:05
ograyou can do a lot of intresting things with our ltsp nobody apart from me knows about :)01:05
Burgworkthings that you cannot do with other implementations?01:06
Burgworkdo I understand correctly that our version of ltsp is a groundup rewrite?01:06
ograthings that requires only one or two changes to make our ltsp something completely different ;)01:07
ogra(while you'd have to create a complete new environment and adjust a lot in other implementations)01:07
ograyes, it is01:07
ograwe use one tool from ltsp.org in our iplementation (thats getltscfg, the parser that reads the config file)01:08
Burgworkis ltsp.org going to migrate to our implementation?01:08
ograthe rest is totally distro specific and brandnew01:08
ograhow should they01:09
ograthey write a universal tool that builds on top of every distro01:09
ograwe have an optimized version that only runs on ubuntu and debian 01:10
ograwe share the same specification01:10
Burgworkah01:10
ograboth is so called "muecow ltsp"01:10
ograsince ltsp.org itself steps back a bit and wants to move the essential bits into the distros01:11
ograthey want the distros to use their own packages and just be the glue inbetween01:11
ogra(as we do it in ubuntu already)01:12
Burgworkok01:13
iGotNoTimewow did you guys know that the Edubuntu still logs IRC while in hibernate mode?01:13
ograi.e. our ltsp uses debootstrap to build the environment and some scripts to install X and the loginmanager ...01:13
iGotNoTimeI find something more impressive everyday :P01:13
Burgworkogra, how are you with rsync?01:15
ograBurgwork, fine thanks ...01:16
ogra:)01:17
ograit works if i need it ...01:17
ogra(what the hell do you mean ?? *g*)01:17
Burgworkif I have two copies of a home, dir, one old and one new, and I rsync them, will the old one be replaced by the new?01:17
ograoh ...01:18
ograhmm01:18
ograit should replace the old one, yes01:18
Burgworkok01:18
BurgworkI am about to put some more glue on our completely broken IT infrastructure at work here01:18
ograah01:19
Burgworkgoing to rsync the home dirs between three different machines, for distributed backup and ease of changing computers01:19
Burgworka totally hacky solution, but hey :)01:19
ograthats not hacky !01:20
ograthats how things worked since the beginning of time :)01:20
BurgworkI am only distributing the home folder, not the actual authentication01:20
ogra(at least in the unix world)01:20
=== ogra remembers rsyncing /etc/passwd between 5 servers at the ISP he had his first IT job
ogra(which meant we couldnt use shadow, but didnt need to use nis)01:22
Burgworkis there a switch to tell rsync to mirror the contents? (ie, if something changed in A, change in B and if it changed in B, copy to A?)01:25
ograno idea, i didnt use it for years apart from rsyncing isos ...01:28
ograman rsync shopuld be able to tell you ;)01:28
Burgworkhmm, doesn't appear to01:31
BurgworkI was hoping for a -m mirror option01:31
thedarkenerwhy not just create a script to rsync both ways?01:37
bimberiBurgwork: i know 'unison' does 2-way synchronisation01:38
Burgworkyes, looking at that right now01:38
Burgworkanybody got real world use with unison?01:39
bimberii've used it for synchro between laptop and server (via the internet) as well as home backup.  Works very well.  Doesn't run a daemon, uses ssh (so no extra open ports)01:42
Burgworkthis would be all internal initially01:42
bimberifairly small scale in my case, so it would prompt me for every change.  However i'm pretty sure you can set it to be more automatic, so that it only prompts you if both ends have changed since the last synchro (and you might even be able to default that to just keep the newest)01:44
bimberi... bit dangerous though :)01:45
Burgworkmaybe I should but all the home dirs in bzr branches...01:46
Burgworkmostly that is not going to be an issue01:46
ograyou'd need your users to commit their changes ;)01:47
ograi was planning something like that for ltsp manager01:47
Burgworkcan I just commit my users?01:47
ograso you can roll back to any point you like01:48
ograyou'd need to have a session script that does the commit of changes on logout ...01:48
Burgworkhmm, too much work01:48
Burgworkthis sort of thing should be done by the freaking fs...01:48
ograare you talking RAID ?01:49
ogra:)01:49
Burgworkno, I am talking revision control in the FS01:49
ograhmm, xfs might do such stuff ...01:49
ogranot sure though01:50
iGotNoTimeMy laptop has a touchpad, when I tap the touchpad twice it acts as a double click (supposed to be a good feature?) I can disable that in XP, is there anyway to disable something like that with Edubuntu?01:50
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NickGarveyhttp://scottcollins.net/blog/2006/01/disable-touchpad-tap-in-kubuntubreezy.html02:21
NickGarveythat might help iGotNoTime02:21
NickGarveyits for kubuntu but it might still do it right02:22
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bimberi<bimberi> !away02:58
bimberi<ubotu> Please don't use /away in your client or change your nick to 'someone|away'. We know you're away when you don't respond to messages. See http://sackheads.org/~bnaylor/spew/away_msgs.html02:58
Burgundaviaarkan0x: please turn off your public away messages02:58
Burgundaviabimberi: thanks02:58
bimberi:)02:59
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iGotNoTimeI have installed Edubuntu to my laptop now, but really would like an easy to install widget for my wifi signal, something that would stay floating on my desktop.04:42
iGotNoTimeDoes anyone have a suggestion maybe?04:42
bimberiiGotNoTime: the "Network Monitor" panel applet04:44
iGotNoTimehaven't looked yet will do now04:45
iGotNoTimeohh no04:46
iGotNoTimethat is on04:46
iGotNoTimeI mean something showing signal strength graphically04:46
iGotNoTimewith numbers too04:46
iGotNoTimethanks for trying though :)04:46
bimberihm, i though it had 5 segments which would change color according to the strength04:47
bimberialso there might be something in its preferences (right-click on it)04:47
iGotNoTimeI am sorry I assumed that was a 'show options' button04:48
iGotNoTimeit could be strength LOL04:48
iGotNoTimeI guess I am ok then :P04:48
bimberitime for a walk :P04:48
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Burgundaviasalut highvoltage06:20
highvoltagesalut!06:20
=== mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage] by ChanServ
Burgundaviahighvoltage: did you see the idea on digg of a mmorg of the oregon trail?06:28
Burgundaviahighvoltage: wouldn't it be great to start and build an educational mmorg?06:28
NickGarveyooo I remember that game, that would be pretty cool as a mmorpg06:28
BurgundaviaI never owned it but loved it06:29
Burgundaviathe other game I would love to see was an old mac game about homesteading in canada06:29
highvoltageBurgundavia: no, haven't seen it. i don't even know what mmorg is :)06:30
NickGarveymassively multiplayer online role playing game06:31
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Burgundaviahttp://justplainlukee.livejournal.com/14192.html06:33
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ulinskiehello07:43
highvoltagehi07:44
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JaneWsilly Q, but is edubuntu GPL?08:35
JaneWI have looked around and there is just mention of Ubuntu being under several OSS licenses08:36
BurgundaviaJaneW: depends on what part you mean08:36
BurgundaviaEdubuntu is mostly GPL, but the distro itself has no license08:36
Burgundaviamere agregation does not make a piece fall under the license08:37
JaneWI am entering edubuntu for a competition08:38
JaneWand the question is "License: Under what kinds of licenses do you make it available? How many copies / licenses have so far been handed out/downloaded?"08:38
JaneWso should I just say FOSS licenses?08:38
Burgundaviayes08:39
JaneWok, thanks08:48
BurgundaviaJaneW: incidentally, where is this for?08:52
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JaneWPrixArs Electronica09:07
BurgundaviaJaneW: ah. Wikipedia won one last year09:08
JaneWtough competition!09:08
Burgundaviathere are different catagories09:14
JaneWwe are in digital communities09:19
Burgundaviahmm, up against them09:21
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spaceymorning09:59
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JaneWis ogra in today?12:09
ograsure12:10
JaneWhi O12:12
JaneWjust getting ready to leave for meeting12:12
JaneWthought I'd better make sure you had the reigns ;)12:12
JaneWbtw I entered for Prix Arz Electronica12:12
JaneWbut I need to ask you to mail it please12:13
JaneWit has to be mailed to them to try to get there by thurs12:13
JaneWor at least be well on the way12:13
JaneWI reckon German is closer then SA to Austria, so would be faster12:13
JaneWagreed?12:13
JaneWThey want the on-line entry printed, signed and posted12:13
=== JaneW mails you
JaneWand then leaves12:15
ograSalutation: Mrs.12:19
ograFirst name: Oliver12:19
ograLast name: Grawert12:19
ogralol12:19
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jsgotangcohey JaneW got your emai ;)12:39
ogra******** edubuntu meeting in #ubuntu-meeting in 4min *********12:56
jsgotangcoerr since when did you become the meeting caller12:57
spaceyi'll be there :)12:58
ograjsgotangco, when jane went to school :)12:59
jsgotangcoahhh good point12:59
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JaneWhi I am back01:35
JaneWsorry so late, was a long meeting01:35
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pips1back here02:17
spacey:)02:24
spaceyJaneW: will you read back the meeting we had?02:24
ograyeah02:24
spaceycould you feedback your opinion about what you expect from the cookbook?02:25
JaneWargh02:25
JaneWagain?02:25
spaceythere was some discussion and jelkner/kjcole see it differently from me02:25
spacey:p02:25
spaceyjust read back02:26
ograi really think the ubuntu server guide is a *very* good example ... i'm very impressed02:26
spaceycommunication seems a little though02:26
ograspacey, not only from you ...02:26
spaceywhat do you mean?02:26
ogra<spacey> there was some discussion and jelkner/kjcole see it differently from me02:26
spaceyah :)02:27
ograi totally agree with you 02:27
spaceyjelker offered me to take over, i will consider that after I indexed the work done/to be done02:27
=== ogra gets fresh coffee
pips1highvoltage, I was hoping to meet you on monday eve, as discussed, but it looks like you are very busy..02:28
spaceywish it that result came earlier but it took so long which makes the whole progress of finding you disagree later02:28
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spaceyanyway i'll post to list about that later02:28
highvoltagepips1: i was on-line, but you weren't?02:29
pips1highvoltage, anyway, know I need to get back to work..02:29
highvoltagepips1: i sent you another jabber message, did you get it?02:29
pips1highvoltage, oh?! 02:29
highvoltagepips1: i mean, i sent you a jabber message that you would get when you're back online02:29
highvoltagepips1: yep. i said that if you couldn't make it, i'll be online again last night, if you'd like to chat02:30
pips1highvoltage, how do I get older messages in jabber?02:30
highvoltagepips1: i think you right-click on someone's name and then on view logs02:30
pips1oh, nothing there though02:31
pips1:-/02:31
pips1sorry, I haven't used jabber before02:32
highvoltageit's on my jabber logs :/02:32
highvoltagepips1: sorry, i don't know what went wrong. could you see me on-line?02:32
highvoltageperhaps there was an issue with the jabber server, i have no idea.02:33
pips1yes, you *were* only, and I started a chat, but no reply... (I was 5 min late on mon eve, btw)02:33
pips1s/only/online02:33
pips1oh well02:34
pips1did you get my 2 emails from last week?02:34
highvoltagepips1: yes, i got your e-mails. i never (not even now) got your jabber messages, so there must have been something weird going on with jabber itself.02:35
pips1highvoltage, got to run, when would be a good time for us to meet next? what about tomorrow during the day or friday during the day? (my evenings are all booked until sunday)02:36
=== pips1 is now known as pips1_busy
highvoltagepips1_busy: i'll try to contact you on jabber now... if you'll read this later, i'd prefer to talk to you tonight. tomorrow evening and friday evening is quite busy02:43
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spaceyogra: btw we forgot to discuss the mailinglist stuff this week03:02
ograi'll just ask jdub to create edubuntu-users ...03:03
spaceythe ubuntu server guide was it right? which you referred to ealier03:13
spaceyearlier03:13
ograyep03:13
ograits in ubuntu-docs in dapper03:13
spaceywhere should i be able to read it?03:15
ograin yelp03:15
spaceyyelp doesn't work it seems03:16
ograjust click your help icon03:16
spaceyjust get an empty screen03:16
spaceyjust see help topics03:16
=== pips1_busy is now known as pips1
spaceynothing more03:16
spacey:)03:16
ograhmm, works here 03:16
ograis ubuntu-docs installed ?03:16
spaceyyup03:17
ograstrange 03:17
spaceyif i do about this document i get an error as well03:17
spaceyThe section x-yelp-titlepage does not exist in this document. If you were directed to this section from a Help button in an application, please report this to the maintainers of that application.03:17
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=== Yagisan waves too flint
ograhmmm, intelmac support in dapper ... these thingies should make nice ltsp servers :)04:05
spaceypips1: you have an email address04:07
spacey?04:07
Yagisanaren't intelmacs supposed to be locked down with a type of drm ?04:07
spaceyi think it was just a boot method windows didn't support04:07
spaceyEFI or something04:07
Yagisanyeah. pity they dropped powerpc. they were nice chips04:09
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blkdghello,04:10
ograhey, but imagine a mac mini intel as ltsp server with these clients: http://www.jack-pc.net/jackpc.asp04:10
ogra:)04:10
spaceyhighvoltage: ping04:10
spaceyogra: that is fucking cool :)04:11
spaceyprice? :)04:11
ograno idea04:11
ogra:)04:11
blkdgi was looking around for gcompris earlier this moring, and it lead me to kde edutainment, and from there i read about tux paint, and eventually i stummbled upon edubuntu.  Cool.  Is there a Live CD version of edubuntu comming with this new release?04:12
ograyep04:12
blkdgwow.04:12
ograthere are daily builds and some milestone releases of it already if you want to test it04:12
ogra(see the channel topic for the latest milestone)04:13
=== spacey calling a reseller
blkdgi'm going to try to find a list of the applications that come with it first. thanks again.04:13
Yagisanjackpc look nice, but seem locked to M$. btw, get me a powerpc box, and I'll get back to work on a powerpc multiarch patch ;) (no, I have no money of my own to spend)04:14
highvoltagespacey: pong04:15
ograspacey, they use some strange embedded amd CPU, not sure the kernel supports that at all04:15
spaceyogra: just asking if it supports PXE now04:15
spaceyit has windows CE 04:15
spaceysucks balls04:15
ograyep04:15
ograbut thats fixable ;)04:15
ograyou could flash a rom-o-matic image over the CE04:16
ograbut the question is if the HW is supported by the kernel at all04:16
spaceyhighvoltage: you and pips do website yes? can you pass me your email addresses?04:16
spaceyogra: yeh04:16
spaceythey will call me back04:16
spacey:)04:16
ogra:)04:16
=== flint in what passes in flint for deep concentration, finally wakes up....
spaceypoor guy couldn't answer my questions04:17
ograheh, its pretty new04:17
spaceyhttp://video.google.com/videosearch?q=edubuntu04:17
spaceyheh04:17
spaceydidn't know about that04:17
spaceylol04:18
ograyeah, thats cool :)04:18
spacey*sigh* i use kde but hey i have to do a demo for edubuntu04:18
spaceylol04:18
spaceyits in the first video04:18
=== ogra couldnt watch any of these yet ...
JaneWYes, Dennis Daniels has done loads04:18
blkdgi've used damn small linux and knoppix on the machine that i am considering to use for edubutu, will edubuntu live run with the same performace level? is it as taking as knoppix?  the machine is a 500 celeron with 512 ram.04:19
ograno shickwave arch around ...04:19
spaceythe video suck ass imho04:19
ograblkdg, that should be fine 04:19
spaceybig WinXP bar in the top04:19
flintogra, that wall compter must be mini-itx form factor beast.  these are fairly cool....04:19
JaneWthe first one I watched was him driving in his car and chatting04:19
JaneWat one point he inadvertently picks his nose04:20
ograflint, mini-itx is something else ...04:20
ograflint, thats waaay bigger 04:20
spacey:>04:20
JaneWand then says 'er, yes, I did yes pick my nose on camera'04:20
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JaneW2nd yes = just04:20
=== spacey pokes highvoltage
jsgotangcohey!04:20
spaceyJaneW: that cookbook is stilll quite a lot of work04:22
spacey*sigh*04:22
JaneWspacey: I should have just done it myself...04:22
flintspacey, I like the screencasts, but they are being created in window$...04:22
spaceyJaneW: i'm preparing a mail now, feel free to contribute :)04:23
jsgotangcohey!04:23
ograjsgotangco, hey!04:23
flintJaneW, go for it.04:23
JaneWspacey: I will just a bit rushed today, I am filling in for another PM too04:23
pips1spacey, philipp at din15 dot org04:23
spaceyJaneW: i'll ping you when i launched the email to the list04:23
JaneWand need to attend a meeting on TeamSpeak aka SUCKSASS!04:23
JaneWdid I say that out loud?04:24
spacey:>04:24
spaceypips1: you have highvoltage his address too?04:25
flintJaneW, excellent!!! you are a goddess unto me.04:25
spaceyI'll drink another beer for the sake of the edubuntu cookbook04:25
flint:^)04:25
pips1sure, but I normally don't pass around other ppl's email... sorry for being fussy about it04:25
ograspacey, beer at 4:30 already ? you crazy duch people ... :)04:25
spaceyogra: its because of the beautiful afternoon04:26
spaceysun and all04:26
spacey:)04:26
ograyeah04:26
ograhere as well04:26
spaceymakes me happy04:26
ograme too ...04:26
pips1spacey, you can find his email from his postings to the mailing list :-)04:26
spaceypips1: i'll do that then04:26
spacey:p04:26
flintdemostudio is the streamcasting tool used... how does wink stand up to this?  Vermonters drink for breakfast (mostly maple syrup :^)04:26
spaceypips1: mr carter right?04:27
spacey:P04:27
ogralaunchpad is also very helpful04:27
pips1spacey, correct, you can check on launchpad, too :-)04:27
pips1ogra, :-)04:27
blkdgi am looking for the daily builds, but i can only see the 5.10 releases.04:27
spaceygetting the addresses was more work then the email but check your mailbox pips1:p04:28
ograhttp://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/daily-live/current/04:28
blkdgthank you.  could someone add this infromation to : http://releases.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/5.10/ ??04:28
ogranote they might be broken ... the last one thats guaranteed to work is http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/releases/dapper/flight-5/04:29
blkdgor, https://wiki.edubuntu.org/DownloadEdubuntu ??04:29
spaceyyou think goals in the edubuntu cookbook should talk about goals of edubuntu or of the cookbook?04:29
ograboth ?04:30
pips1spacey, thanks, I sure that highvoltage is very aware of it, he is one the original authors of the tuxlab cookbook, AFAIC ;-)04:30
spaceypips1: i know04:31
spaceybut it is just so suited for the website04:31
spacey:)04:31
spaceyand not for the cookbook04:31
spaceyof edubuntu at the moment04:31
blkdgok, now i'm confused.  the dapper version of ubuntu will have the same educational stuff that edunbunt has?04:32
blkdgspecifically edutainment and gcompris?04:32
ogranope04:32
ograwhat makes you think that ? 04:33
blkdgi'm comparing the file lists for packages that i wnat.04:33
blkdgone sec.04:33
ograwhere ? 04:33
flintspacey, I am thinking that technology may be bypassing the need for the cookbook or any other documentation.  This stramcast think is most painless...04:33
blkdghttp://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/daily-live/current/dapper-live-i386.manifest says it has gcompris and edutainment04:33
spaceyflint: i absolutely disagree on that04:33
blkdgait.04:33
blkdgsorry.  04:33
blkdgi ahve to learn to read :)04:34
ogra:)04:34
ograflint, its a very valuable source ...04:34
ograthey are different for different use cases ...04:34
ogra.different for different use cases ...04:34
ogradifferent tools for different use cases ...04:35
ogragrr04:35
flintspacey, I understand both of your points, if i could not be seduced by technology I would not be here :^)  down olli... remember its all about FITS04:37
flint:^)04:37
blkdgis there a link from the edubuntu download page to the daily live page? could anyone here make one?04:37
ograthe grr was directed at my keyboard :)04:37
ograblkdg, feel free to do it, its a wiki :)04:38
ograbut note that the dailies are broken most of the time ...04:38
spaceyogra: lol04:38
flintspacey, having made a few films in my time, I think that overall guidance in the form of documentation is essential to organizing an effective presentation of any type.  but this streacast stuff is revolutionary, gotta admit it.04:38
spaceyaccording to the distributor04:38
spaceyof jackpc04:39
=== ogra is all ears
spaceythey even designed to processor on it and is not comparable to any existing arch04:39
spaceyand i don't think he ever heard of PXE04:39
ograheh04:39
spaceyi think direct contact with chippc is a better idea :p04:40
ograyeah04:40
spaceyanyway04:40
spaceyno time now, time to finish up that lengthy email about hte cookbook04:40
flintogra, I know this sounds insane... but I just got an IBM M13 keyboard that cost me $200.00, a 515 style break-spring board with full number pad and a trackpoint  is is the second most fun I can have with my hands...04:41
flintspacey, please include me in the flame (flint@flint.com:^)04:41
ograflint, arent you subscribed to the mailing list ? 04:42
jsgotangcooohhh spacey is in  planet04:42
spacey:)04:42
spaceyjsgotangco: yes:)04:42
spaceyhurray04:42
jsgotangcowith a hackergotchi even!04:42
jsgotangco\o/04:42
blkdgis there a linux tool that comes with (or could come with one day edubuntu) that acts like apples remote desktop tool ( observe student work, control student work over a network?04:43
ograwe have VNC included04:44
blkdgi used it recently in an emac lab, an it was useful during a tutorial where i had a projector.04:44
blkdgi will look up vnc, thank you.04:44
jsgotangcothere's also freenx04:45
ograits integrated into the desktop ... you just need to enable it ... and use the terminal server client to connect to it ...04:45
ograits all preinstalled ...04:45
blkdgi see that it's called vnc common. i will look into it. this cd will be amazing.04:46
jsgotangcoit already is!04:46
ograthe integration part for the desktop is called vino ... vnc is only the backend04:46
blkdgoh, ok, 04:47
ograjsgotangco, vino/vnc and tsclient are...04:47
ograpart of the desktop since gnome 2.10 04:47
jsgotangcoi didnt know about vino/vnc though04:47
blkdgok, it comes with gnome. i get it.04:48
blkdgkind of.04:48
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blkdgsorry about the delay i keep alt tabbing between here and my browser.04:49
blkdgogra how do i add that link to the download page?04:53
blkdgit's a locked page.04:53
blkdgforget about that last question, i 'm reading the help/04:54
blkdg.04:54
ograyou need to log in and just edit  :)04:54
spaceyfrom the current cookbook: The moo cow server defaults to an IP gateway and firewall when two Ethernet cards are present. This will only be the case in Edubuntu labs that are permanently online, which will usually not be the case.04:54
spaceyi don't understand any of that04:55
spaceyi don't think its because of the beer04:55
jsgotangcoduh04:55
ograouch04:57
blkdgthanks again for you help and patience folks.04:57
jsgotangcoi gotta sleep05:04
jsgotangcocheers05:04
Yagisancool, I just found my house using google maps05:19
spaceyi hate computers05:21
spaceybrb05:21
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ograspacey, hey, i just saw you have probs with your amd64 acer ? 05:28
ograthey are vaccum cleaners, i have to pull out a block of filth every two months from the fan ...05:29
spaceyalready did that05:29
spacey:)05:29
spacey:)05:29
ogradid it help ?05:29
spaceyno05:29
ograbah05:29
spaceyi think i need to open it up05:29
spaceyto clean it05:29
spaceyinside05:29
ograoh, yes, indeed i meant the cooling unit inside ...05:30
spaceyyou think it will affect my warranty?05:30
ograit collects the filth directly at the fan05:30
ograno idea05:30
ogramine is over, so i had no probs opening it05:30
spaceyi bought extented warranty since i knew it will break before that ends05:31
ograthere is a little piece of aluminium foil glued onto the cover 05:31
spaceyi don't see that05:31
ograyou have to rip it off to open it ... so you wont be able to hide that you opened it05:31
ograits the connection between the fan case and the outer frame in mine ...05:32
ograon the right 05:32
spaceynope not here05:33
spaceyfan is on the left here anyway05:33
ograah, mine is in the middle05:33
spaceyat least i cannot see it from the outside05:33
ograah, no you wont see it with the plastic on top :)05:34
spaceyogra: JaneW, posted my proposal for the cookbook to list05:44
ogragreat 05:44
flintspacey, as if I am not getting enough spam, I gotta ask, am I on this list?05:45
spaceyflint: i think you are on the list05:45
spaceyat least I have seen your spam on it flint;)05:46
flintspacey, the dust thing is pernicious.  Two things to consider, get yourself a backup fan system, and/or get an air compressor and blow it out from time to time.  The air compressor is handy for other parts of your life (e.g. a bycycle :^)05:47
spacey:>05:47
spaceyflint: no place left on this 12 square meters :)05:47
flintspacey, maybe I should not digress as to the connubial aspects of air compressors...this may not be an appropriate forum.05:48
flint:^)05:48
spacey:>05:49
flintspacey, i have not gotten any hate mail, as a favor bounce what Jane sent to me, that I may read and obey.05:49
spaceyi missing some context here flint05:50
spaceyafter my lenghty email i am gonna watch some of my anime crack05:50
spaceybbl05:50
flintspacey, I would be happy if you woud send or forward any cookbook related mail traffic to flint@flitn.com05:53
flinter flint@flint.com (damn typist fire him! :^)05:54
=== ogra applauds spacey
ogranice mail05:56
ograi'm courious about the reactions ...05:57
ograwe ssom to have gotten a lot nice people lately that would do doc work ...05:57
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JaneWspacey: great thanks06:50
JaneWspacey: I promise to go through it first thing tomorrow06:50
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=== JaneW had ubuntu soup for dinner :)
JaneWhttp://janewsblog.blogspot.com/2006/03/ubuntu-is-soup-er.html06:50
=== sivang also want ubuntu soup for dinner :-)
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highvoltagereally? :)06:51
JaneWsivang: it's SPICY!06:51
sivangI'm sure it is :-)06:51
sivangbut your blog does not come up06:52
highvoltagemy word, it is ubuntu soup!06:52
JaneWhehe06:53
JaneWsivang: huh?06:53
BurgworkJaneW, have you been told to crack down on laptop testers not testing?06:53
JaneWBurgwork: silbs wanted me to check06:53
Burgworkah06:53
Burgworkwould be nice to have an official list06:53
Burgworkso I can clean up the wiki page06:53
JaneWcos she feared we have 30 odd ppl who have run off with laptops06:53
JaneWI doubts that's the case06:53
JaneWand so far everyone is testing06:53
JaneWof course I am sure to have straglers who are non-responsive06:54
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Petarishello all06:54
highvoltagehi Petaris 06:54
PetarisHi highvoltage06:55
PetarisI just got the ok to shop for a second LTSP lab ;)06:55
PetarisThis one for the high school06:55
highvoltageyay :)06:55
Petarisyep06:56
PetarisHas anyone played with authenticating the server/terminals to AD or NDS/eDirectory?06:56
highvoltagenot sure :/06:57
highvoltageJaneW: why not edubuntu soup?06:58
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Petarishrm, it would be nice if they could logon with their existing credentials and have access to all of their files06:58
JaneWhighvoltage: hey it was a last minute idea!06:58
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JaneWhighvoltage: next time I will plan and execute better06:58
highvoltageJaneW: it's very nicely done. i didn't think it would look that nice :)06:59
JaneWI was like 'you want chilli? Good, hold on for a sec I have to do something first... no don;t eat it I need my camera!'06:59
highvoltagehehe! shame man.07:00
JaneWindeed07:00
JaneWthen I was told 'er this habanero one is like 5 times as strong as tabasco!'07:00
JaneWluckilly he LIKES burney stuff07:00
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sivangJaneW: I'll be a happy laptop tester camper if you send me one :)07:08
JaneWsivang: I would if I could...07:08
JaneWso far I get to track down what the ppl who have them are doing with them07:08
sivangheh, I just wish I was less busy during the laptop testing team  formation07:08
=== JaneW is off to a meeting
JaneWbye07:08
sivanglaters07:08
JaneWLPI cert stuff07:08
highvoltagebye07:09
ograPetaris, usually you only authenticate the usersx against AD ... there are docs on ltsp.org about it07:16
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Petarisogra: I'll take a look there, but it would be nice to have them logon with their AD info and get their homedirectory mapped :)07:44
ograi heard thats possible, but due to lack of any MS products around me i cant confirm :)07:45
PetarisAnyone know about NDS/eDirectory auth on terminals?07:45
PetarisWe use AD but I have been considering a switch to Novell for a while now07:46
spaceyPetaris: as long as PAM can auth against it it will work07:51
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LaserJockis this the only edubuntu channel?07:53
ograyep07:53
LaserJockok, cool07:53
LaserJockogra: how is wiki.edubuntu.org and wiki,ubuntu.com related? are they totally separate wikis?07:54
ogranope07:54
BurgworkLaserJock, they are the same07:54
Burgworkmerely different skins07:54
ograthey are exactly the same07:54
ograas wiki.kubuntu.org is ...07:54
LaserJockoh, ok. The pages looked familiar but different ;-)07:55
BurgworkI personally think seperate wikis are a good thing, but others disagree...07:55
ograi agree ... i'd have loved to keep them distinct07:57
highvoltagei think we'll get a lot of stuff done in drupal, in the future07:58
highvoltageit has lots of modules that are wiki-like.07:58
BurgworkI would have liked to keep the udu wiki seperate as well, but whatever07:59
highvoltagethe ubuntu wiki does have lots of good reference for edubuntu users, though07:59
ograwe, yes, there is an advantage ... 07:59
ogra*well07:59
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emmieHi09:13
Burgworksalut emmie 09:14
emmieTah shi de lah.09:16
emmieEr 09:16
emmieTah shi de lah burgwork09:16
emmieI'm speaking a foriegn language09:17
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iGotNoTimeHello everyone :D09:35
=== HedgeMage peeks in
HedgeMageHi, folks09:35
iGotNoTimeThis is not a 'total' noob question but...09:35
iGotNoTimeI have wine and have run apps through it well09:35
iGotNoTimebut I am curious if there is a default directory I really should be installing these win32 apps into?09:36
iGotNoTimeis the home directory fine or should I really be installing to the wine directory?09:36
iGotNoTimeso home is fine? :)09:37
HedgeMageno clue, i've never used wine09:43
HedgeMageI only use one Windoze prog, and it's a game, and I'm usually just lazy and borrow one of hubby's windows boxen09:43
iGotNoTime:D09:44
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Petarishome time10:07
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mhzneurogeek: ping, urgente10:18
mphillhow does edubntu compare to lstpk12?10:21
mhzneurogeek: ping, urgente10:22
mhzmphill: in what sense?10:22
mhzneurogeek: ping, urgente10:24
mhzneurogeek: ping, urgente10:24
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neurogeekmhz hey10:25
neurogeekmhz here i am10:25
mhzneurogeek: holas10:26
mhzneurogeek: es posible que Ricardo aparezca aca en este instante?10:27
neurogeekhmmm.. no lo creo porque no est aqu en la oficina10:31
neurogeekmhz, pero si quieres puedes dejarme el mensaje a mi.. yo se lo hago llegar lo antes posible10:32
mhzneurogeek: necesito con URGENCIA una especie de Curriculum de el10:33
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mhzneurogeek: es posible ? No encontre algo hasta ahora sobre ricardo10:36
mhzneurogeek: es posible ? No encontre algo hasta ahora sobre Ricardo10:36
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SeveasJaneW, lol @ ubuntu soup :D10:45
neurogeekmhz, hmm djame ver10:45
neurogeekmhz, nope.. yo tampoco tengo nada a mano,. pero apenas lo vea le digo que te lo enve10:51
mhzplease!10:51
mhzneurogeek: volvera muy pronto?10:51
neurogeekmhz, eso espero,. debera estar por venir10:52
=== mhz hace conjuros para que llegue ya
mhz:D10:53
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mhz_pickDaughterneurogeek: I'll be back in 30 mins or so11:03
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neurogeekmhz, ya habl con Ricardo11:44
mhzcool11:44
mhzand?11:44
mhzneurogeek: ?11:47
mhzneurogeek: ?11:54
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