=== thedarkener [n=thedarke@adsl-69-109-210-153.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #edubuntu [12:08] What's up everyone - I'm considering Edubuntu for a customer of mine (I'm a network consultant and fluent in linux) - Does Edubuntu have any types of internet / URL filtering mechanism? [12:09] thedarkener, currently not packaged [12:10] sure [12:10] available, however [12:10] there are squidguard and dansguardian ... they are in universe, not preinstalled and not configured by default though [12:12] awesome... now I've never done a true terminal server setup, if i installed squidguard though, i'm assuming i could just install it on the term. svr and it will effect all clients? [12:12] the users are logged in on the server ... [12:13] so what you want is to shape the network access there, not on the clients ... [12:14] think of the clients as additional mouse/monitor/keyboard for the server, nothing else ... [12:14] right... ok stupid question. ;) do any of you have exp. in squidguard or dansguardian? I've never used either but would like to know impressions of each [12:14] both need frequent updates of black/whitelists ... [12:14] we use dansguardian at work here. It works if you maintain them [12:14] and you'll need someone on site who knows it ... [12:15] <--- someone who will need to know it [12:15] ;) [12:15] maintenance...is there a global blacklist to maintain? or are you just talking about users complaining they can't get to site X? [12:15] the thing is, the setup for such a filtering is a bit tricky ... [12:16] i'm fluent in iptables/firewalls so i don't think the technical aspect will be too difficult for me [12:16] just a bit confused as to "maintenance" [12:17] you need to maintain the rules and restrictions ... [12:17] i'm sorry if i'm being dumb... can you define 'maintain' on a more technical level for me? [12:18] keep the lists up to date :) [12:18] lol [12:18] do they have expiration dates? =) [12:18] add/remove entries :) [12:18] nope, but the web changes ... [12:19] ok...well i guess i already knew that, just confused [12:19] hehe [12:19] my preferred solution we hopefully will ship with the october release is willow... [12:19] hrm [12:19] it uses bayesian filtering and is able to update itself [12:19] tell me more [12:19] nice [12:19] additionally to white and blacklists you can define [12:20] i'm not sure i agree with bayesian filtering, but again like i said i've never used filtering software before and my customer probably wouldn't mind a more restrictive ruleset than allowing others [12:20] of course a whitelist might seem like a better idea.. [12:20] but i won't get into a religious battle ;) [12:21] Thank you guys very much [12:21] if you have a customer that wants strict rules, thats fine [12:22] if you have to teach biology at school and your students shall look up stuff about pregnate teens that had sex before 15,, that gets tricky [12:22] haha [12:22] true [12:22] well how bout this [12:22] thats where the maintenance gets really hard [12:23] what about access restrictions? i'm sure edubuntu is good at restricting shell access to sudoers, etc. right? admin tasks? [12:23] its not as good as it should in breezy ... i'd suggest to wait for the dapper (july) release [12:23] there you can completely control the desktop access of users [12:24] it also hides all admin task entries in the menu if youre not in the appropriate group [12:24] ooooo nice [12:24] breezy didnt do that ... [12:25] pessulus and sabayon enable you to create lockdown profiles for different groups of users [12:25] in gnome specifically i presume? [12:26] darn [12:26] ran out f disk space [12:26] this edubuntu builds a while LTSP root thing [12:26] ks... [12:26] so... [12:26] too much space usage ;-( [12:26] ick [12:26] hehe [12:27] for the default install you should have ~3G free space ... [12:27] that shouldn't be a problem [12:27] ltsp eats some space for the chroot ... and the educational apps are big as well ... so edubuntu is a bit bigger than ubuntu [12:27] heh [12:27] darn [12:28] this is a weir dlaptop with a 2gb disk;-) [12:28] time to delete some apps ;) [12:28] so thats why it wont fit then ;-) [12:28] for a server? wow [12:28] hehe [12:28] nice try thou [12:28] not for server [12:28] just default install [12:28] it will get tight, but you could try the workstation install :) [12:28] i see i see [12:28] the default install is the server install ... [12:28] i was jsut stesting the new edubuntu-instaler fluight-5 for you.... [12:28] i see isee [12:28] aah [12:28] o [12:28] it installs ltsp ... [12:28] i se [12:29] ewhich installs a seaparate image ? [12:29] for the ltsp root [12:29] yep, its a separate system inside the system ... [12:29] basically a copy of everything [12:29] i see [12:29] but.. [12:29] how does that get updated later etc. / [12:29] ? [12:29] with updated packages in the host system and soforth [12:30] sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 apt-get update [12:30] sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 apt-get upgrade [12:30] aah so you have to do that separately [12:30] thats it :) [12:30] i see [12:30] and you can have a separate chroot for powerpc and thigns? [12:30] yep, but it gets tricky to set up powerpc on i386 ... [12:30] i see [12:30] http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/LTSPManager/ [12:30] qemu can be handy ! [12:31] will have a tool to care for updates at some point [12:31] quemu is far from being usable for that [12:31] i did tests [12:31] hrrmm [12:31] darn [12:31] kk [12:31] qemu ahs the user-mode-emulation so you can run ppc binary and thinsg [12:32] yep, i experimented with it ... i think it might be ready for revisiting in two or three ubuntu releases [12:33] ogra, with regards to the UI for ltsp manager, you might want to consider http://developer.gnome.org/projects/gup/hig/2.0/controls-notebooks.html [12:33] its for sure not mature enough ... [12:33] and you might want to consider changing the first run into an actual wizard [12:33] erm [12:33] what for ? [12:34] the build ltsp enviroment section? [12:34] how are toools like that pictured for 'LTSPmanager' written? [12:34] you only can select one thing (if any, thats even a cornercase) and watch the progressbar [12:34] with all those menus and everything... [12:34] some kind of scripting thing? [12:34] thats glade and python [12:34] aaaaaaaha [12:34] glade for the gui, python for the rest [12:35] thats really really handy [12:35] Burgwork, it will be a prerequisite for running the whole app ... a wizard is really overkill here, i think ... [12:35] amazing how all these FOSS programming tools have come along well [12:36] ogra, a wizard can be a single screen. It is more about consistency [12:36] you either click ok and let it create the chroot or you dont and the app exits [12:36] and all you get is a progressbar ... i dotn want to scare people with too much output ... [12:37] consistency with what btw ? [12:38] any other setup dialog [12:38] observe the xchat-gnome or evolution ones [12:38] <-- is the biggest wizard hater he personally knows [12:38] I am not much of fan, but they can well written [12:38] yes, thats one of the reasons i dont use xchat-gnome ;) [12:38] the gajim one isn't horrible [12:39] and i dont like the evo one ... === ogra installs gajim [12:39] http://www.redhat.com/magazine/001nov04/features/evolution/figs/evo-setup.png [12:40] that is what I am talking about [12:40] just make it one page, with a "create ltsp" button [12:40] yep, thats what i was talking about as well === iGotNoTime [n=joshua@cpe-65-189-240-199.woh.res.rr.com] has joined #edubuntu [12:40] that is what you hate? [12:41] for me, it is about "feels like, smells like, is" idea [12:41] a huuuge ugly and scary window for a single sentence [12:41] one sentence? [12:41] and even the classic "Please click the forward button" *shudder* [12:41] you don't need the splash screen [12:42] http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/LTSPManager/ltsp-manager_build_client.png [12:42] that has a lot more than one sentence [12:42] yes [12:42] its a prototype of an app ;) [12:42] that is the page I would convert [12:42] I have nothing but frustration with the other distros! None would recognize my wifi card in my laptop. I finally installed Edubuntu and it works. [12:42] and then just jump to a dialog box with a prgress bar [12:43] So ogra I will be with you all for a while I guess :) [12:43] the sentence can go away [12:43] It should say "Choose your client's processor type" [12:43] Does Edubuntu somehow utilize the ndiswrapper automatically? [12:44] (the arch selection will only happen on multiarch systems, people setting up multiple arches wont want to use the gui for maintaining it, they'll do way more fine grained configs) [12:44] is there a use case for allowing people to install two arches on the same machine? [12:44] even in Ku I couldn't edit the settings :P [12:44] ie, should it be checkboxes? [12:44] yes, there is, but you cant do it at the same time ... [12:45] so checkboxes would be pointless ... you can only have one choice [12:45] you can't create two environments at the same time? [12:45] but as i said, the case of multiarches does only happen in very specific cases [12:46] you can create 100, but your guis wont repond anymore and it will take ages ;) === neurogeek [n=neurogee@201.211.160.18] has joined #edubuntu [12:46] bootstrapping is a very slow process done over the network ... :) [12:46] realistically we are only looking at 4 or 5 arches, no? [12:46] nope [12:46] 3 [12:46] is there a site that I would be able to give to a network admin at my school to help nudge him to make a room linux based? and my school uses a windows based network, would they be able to set up linux to access the network? I have heard of samba but I am unsure after reading their site what it allows linux clients to do [12:47] what about sunrays? [12:47] ltsp only knows powerpc, i386 and amd64 [12:47] i have a sparc patch that waits for dapper+1 [12:47] ah [12:47] regardless, this is dapper+1 stuff [12:47] nobody confirmed sparc being official in dapper ... [12:47] we can talk UI for an LTSP manager at the next conference [12:48] the fact that it exists is cool enough [12:49] note that there will also be a menu at the top .... [12:49] i havent had time for a mockup yet ... [12:49] there shall be some menu driven actions ... [12:50] Burgwork, considering that UI for LTSP and what NickGarvey is asking about could you tell me what this is? http://www.redianet.com/img/pantallazo2.gif [12:50] is that not similar to what NickGarvey is asking for? [12:51] High Voltage gave a link to that a few days ago [12:51] that is a program to control and view students deskops [12:52] NickGarvey, samba should integrate any linux system fine into a windows network ... i'd suggest the o'rilley samba book ... [12:52] NickGarvey is asking for help about how to use samba to file share in a windows environment [12:52] It appears to be a way the 'teacher' could monitor the 'students' desktops and activites? [12:52] ok I am way off base then :( [12:52] don't worry about it [12:52] ducking back embarassed again :P [12:53] the only way to learn is to chew on a few toes first :) [12:53] :P [12:53] ok so samba would do the job based on what my school would need? [12:53] sounds like it but want to be sure :) [12:53] what exactly *does* your school need ... ? [12:54] NickGarvey, access the network covers such a broad range ... [12:54] if they mean, surf the internet, routers and cables don't care what OS is pushing them [12:54] if you mean connecting to windows shares, then samba is what you need [12:54] as i said, samba will bring your linux machines into a win based network ... but samba cant replace a windows PDC completely for example [12:54] hoping to do a ltsp connection, have a linux server, and that server be able to access the windows network on the school system, access internet [12:55] if you mean AD single sign on, you need samba4, which isn't out yet [12:55] no problem then [12:55] Burgwork, he didnt talk about AD :) [12:55] what is AD? [12:55] active directory [12:55] to google! [12:55] a windows authentication mechanism [12:56] (in fact its microsoft raping ldap and kerberos) [12:57] I do not believe it is like that.. [12:57] I'm a sophormore, this will be a junior or senior project, plenty of time to learn up [12:58] just having sammba working on the linux machine should already give you what you want ... edubuntu installs ltsp and samba for you, you just need to configure the samba stuff ... [12:59] one last question, is there an easy way I could test if the computers were network booting compatible? I can easily run the knoppix terminal server, and I can boot it from my laptop for instance, but not one of the desktops, even though I turned it on in the BIOS, and thus I would like to try to do a quick test to find out if those computers could boot from a terminal server before setting it all up [12:59] you can always use a ootflopy or bootCD to make them netbootable :) [01:00] *bootfloppy [01:00] oh alright thats excellent [01:00] thanks a lot, lets hope I can convince them to upgrade to linux :) [01:01] https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuDocumentation/BootingClientsWithoutPxe [01:02] oh good thank you, ubuntu/edubuntu has great documentation, one of my favorite parts of the distro [01:02] :) === Burgwork smiles [01:04] Burgwork, btw, kodos to the docteam, i read the server guide on the weekend ... thats waesome documentation ... [01:04] *awesome [01:04] I will pass that along [01:05] i still have to write a ton of ltsp howtos ... [01:05] you can do a lot of intresting things with our ltsp nobody apart from me knows about :) [01:06] things that you cannot do with other implementations? [01:06] do I understand correctly that our version of ltsp is a groundup rewrite? [01:07] things that requires only one or two changes to make our ltsp something completely different ;) [01:07] (while you'd have to create a complete new environment and adjust a lot in other implementations) [01:07] yes, it is [01:08] we use one tool from ltsp.org in our iplementation (thats getltscfg, the parser that reads the config file) [01:08] is ltsp.org going to migrate to our implementation? [01:08] the rest is totally distro specific and brandnew [01:09] how should they [01:09] they write a universal tool that builds on top of every distro [01:10] we have an optimized version that only runs on ubuntu and debian [01:10] we share the same specification [01:10] ah [01:10] both is so called "muecow ltsp" [01:11] since ltsp.org itself steps back a bit and wants to move the essential bits into the distros [01:11] they want the distros to use their own packages and just be the glue inbetween [01:12] (as we do it in ubuntu already) [01:13] ok [01:13] wow did you guys know that the Edubuntu still logs IRC while in hibernate mode? [01:13] i.e. our ltsp uses debootstrap to build the environment and some scripts to install X and the loginmanager ... [01:13] I find something more impressive everyday :P [01:15] ogra, how are you with rsync? [01:16] Burgwork, fine thanks ... [01:17] :) [01:17] it works if i need it ... [01:17] (what the hell do you mean ?? *g*) [01:17] if I have two copies of a home, dir, one old and one new, and I rsync them, will the old one be replaced by the new? [01:18] oh ... [01:18] hmm [01:18] it should replace the old one, yes [01:18] ok [01:18] I am about to put some more glue on our completely broken IT infrastructure at work here [01:19] ah [01:19] going to rsync the home dirs between three different machines, for distributed backup and ease of changing computers [01:19] a totally hacky solution, but hey :) [01:20] thats not hacky ! [01:20] thats how things worked since the beginning of time :) [01:20] I am only distributing the home folder, not the actual authentication [01:20] (at least in the unix world) === ogra remembers rsyncing /etc/passwd between 5 servers at the ISP he had his first IT job [01:22] (which meant we couldnt use shadow, but didnt need to use nis) [01:25] is there a switch to tell rsync to mirror the contents? (ie, if something changed in A, change in B and if it changed in B, copy to A?) [01:28] no idea, i didnt use it for years apart from rsyncing isos ... [01:28] man rsync shopuld be able to tell you ;) [01:31] hmm, doesn't appear to [01:31] I was hoping for a -m mirror option [01:37] why not just create a script to rsync both ways? [01:38] Burgwork: i know 'unison' does 2-way synchronisation [01:38] yes, looking at that right now [01:39] anybody got real world use with unison? [01:42] i've used it for synchro between laptop and server (via the internet) as well as home backup. Works very well. Doesn't run a daemon, uses ssh (so no extra open ports) [01:42] this would be all internal initially [01:44] fairly small scale in my case, so it would prompt me for every change. However i'm pretty sure you can set it to be more automatic, so that it only prompts you if both ends have changed since the last synchro (and you might even be able to default that to just keep the newest) [01:45] ... bit dangerous though :) [01:46] maybe I should but all the home dirs in bzr branches... [01:46] mostly that is not going to be an issue [01:47] you'd need your users to commit their changes ;) [01:47] i was planning something like that for ltsp manager [01:47] can I just commit my users? [01:48] so you can roll back to any point you like [01:48] you'd need to have a session script that does the commit of changes on logout ... [01:48] hmm, too much work [01:48] this sort of thing should be done by the freaking fs... [01:49] are you talking RAID ? [01:49] :) [01:49] no, I am talking revision control in the FS [01:49] hmm, xfs might do such stuff ... [01:50] not sure though [01:50] My laptop has a touchpad, when I tap the touchpad twice it acts as a double click (supposed to be a good feature?) I can disable that in XP, is there anyway to disable something like that with Edubuntu? === arkan0x [n=arkan0x@pc-220-72-214-201.cm.vtr.net] has joined #edubuntu [02:21] http://scottcollins.net/blog/2006/01/disable-touchpad-tap-in-kubuntubreezy.html [02:21] that might help iGotNoTime [02:22] its for kubuntu but it might still do it right === pitux [n=pitux@186-48-28-200.adsl.terra.cl] has joined #edubuntu === Burgundavia [n=corey@S0106000fb085cc63.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #edubuntu === HedgeMage [n=me@freenode/staff/HedgeMage] has joined #edubuntu === arkan0x is away: .....zzz...b === arkan0x is back (gone 00:17:21) [02:58] !away [02:58] Please don't use /away in your client or change your nick to 'someone|away'. We know you're away when you don't respond to messages. See http://sackheads.org/~bnaylor/spew/away_msgs.html [02:58] arkan0x: please turn off your public away messages [02:58] bimberi: thanks [02:59] :) === iGotNoTime [n=joshua@cpe-65-189-240-199.woh.res.rr.com] has joined #edubuntu === Burgundavia [n=corey@S0106000fb085cc63.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #edubuntu === arkan0x is now known as arkan0x|playing_ [04:42] I have installed Edubuntu to my laptop now, but really would like an easy to install widget for my wifi signal, something that would stay floating on my desktop. [04:42] Does anyone have a suggestion maybe? [04:44] iGotNoTime: the "Network Monitor" panel applet [04:45] haven't looked yet will do now [04:46] ohh no [04:46] that is on [04:46] I mean something showing signal strength graphically [04:46] with numbers too [04:46] thanks for trying though :) [04:47] hm, i though it had 5 segments which would change color according to the strength [04:47] also there might be something in its preferences (right-click on it) [04:48] I am sorry I assumed that was a 'show options' button [04:48] it could be strength LOL [04:48] I guess I am ok then :P [04:48] time for a walk :P === bimberi_ [n=bimberi@pdpc/supporter/active/bimberi] has joined #edubuntu === arkan0x|playing_ is now known as arkan0x === P3L|C4N0 [n=gcamposm@200.106.9.189] has joined #edubuntu === highvoltage [n=Jono@196.36.161.235] has joined #edubuntu [06:20] salut highvoltage [06:20] salut! === mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage] by ChanServ [06:28] highvoltage: did you see the idea on digg of a mmorg of the oregon trail? [06:28] highvoltage: wouldn't it be great to start and build an educational mmorg? [06:28] ooo I remember that game, that would be pretty cool as a mmorpg [06:29] I never owned it but loved it [06:29] the other game I would love to see was an old mac game about homesteading in canada [06:30] Burgundavia: no, haven't seen it. i don't even know what mmorg is :) [06:31] massively multiplayer online role playing game === ulinskie [n=yolynne@202.57.88.34] has joined #edubuntu [06:33] http://justplainlukee.livejournal.com/14192.html === ogra [n=ogra@ubuntu/member/ogra] has joined #edubuntu === anunesj1 [n=anunesjr@201-13-83-246.dsl.telesp.net.br] has joined #edubuntu === anunesj1 [n=anunesjr@201-13-83-246.dsl.telesp.net.br] has left #edubuntu [] === zakame [n=zak@ubuntu/member/zakame] has joined #edubuntu === iGotNoTime [n=joshua@cpe-65-189-240-199.woh.res.rr.com] has joined #edubuntu [07:43] hello [07:44] hi === yvesC [n=yves@zenobi.ycombe.net] has joined #edubuntu === KHAGEL [n=KHAGEL@c-24-17-226-172.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #edubuntu === jane_ [n=JaneW@dsl-165-197-110.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #edubuntu [08:35] silly Q, but is edubuntu GPL? [08:36] I have looked around and there is just mention of Ubuntu being under several OSS licenses [08:36] JaneW: depends on what part you mean [08:36] Edubuntu is mostly GPL, but the distro itself has no license [08:37] mere agregation does not make a piece fall under the license [08:38] I am entering edubuntu for a competition [08:38] and the question is "License: Under what kinds of licenses do you make it available? How many copies / licenses have so far been handed out/downloaded?" [08:38] so should I just say FOSS licenses? [08:39] yes [08:48] ok, thanks [08:52] JaneW: incidentally, where is this for? === pips1 [n=philipp@hsz-hgkz.isz.ch] has joined #edubuntu [09:07] PrixArs Electronica [09:08] JaneW: ah. Wikipedia won one last year [09:08] tough competition! [09:14] there are different catagories [09:19] we are in digital communities [09:21] hmm, up against them === yvesC [n=yves@zenobi.ycombe.net] has joined #edubuntu [09:59] morning === bimberi [n=bimberi@pdpc/supporter/active/bimberi] has joined #edubuntu === Seveas [i=dkaarsem@ubuntu/member/seveas] has joined #edubuntu === chemaja [n=chemaja@c220-237-34-209.brasd1.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #edubuntu === chemaja [n=chemaja@c220-237-34-209.brasd1.vic.optusnet.com.au] has left #edubuntu [] [12:09] is ogra in today? [12:10] sure [12:12] hi O [12:12] just getting ready to leave for meeting [12:12] thought I'd better make sure you had the reigns ;) [12:12] btw I entered for Prix Arz Electronica [12:13] but I need to ask you to mail it please [12:13] it has to be mailed to them to try to get there by thurs [12:13] or at least be well on the way [12:13] I reckon German is closer then SA to Austria, so would be faster [12:13] agreed? [12:13] They want the on-line entry printed, signed and posted === JaneW mails you [12:15] and then leaves [12:19] Salutation: Mrs. [12:19] First name: Oliver [12:19] Last name: Grawert [12:19] lol === jsgotangco [n=jsg@ubuntu/member/jsgotangco] has joined #edubuntu === pips1 is now known as pips1_away [12:39] hey JaneW got your emai ;) [12:56] ******** edubuntu meeting in #ubuntu-meeting in 4min ********* [12:57] err since when did you become the meeting caller [12:58] i'll be there :) [12:59] jsgotangco, when jane went to school :) [12:59] ahhh good point === pips1_away is now known as pips1 === kjcole [n=kjcole@dsl092-145-217.wdc2.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #edubuntu === C-O-L-T [n=icechat5@193.231.163.10] has joined #edubuntu [01:35] hi I am back [01:35] sorry so late, was a long meeting === highvoltage [n=Jono@196.36.161.235] has joined #edubuntu === mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage] by ChanServ [02:17] back here [02:24] :) [02:24] JaneW: will you read back the meeting we had? [02:24] yeah [02:25] could you feedback your opinion about what you expect from the cookbook? [02:25] argh [02:25] again? [02:25] there was some discussion and jelkner/kjcole see it differently from me [02:25] :p [02:26] just read back [02:26] i really think the ubuntu server guide is a *very* good example ... i'm very impressed [02:26] communication seems a little though [02:26] spacey, not only from you ... [02:26] what do you mean? [02:26] there was some discussion and jelkner/kjcole see it differently from me [02:27] ah :) [02:27] i totally agree with you [02:27] jelker offered me to take over, i will consider that after I indexed the work done/to be done === ogra gets fresh coffee [02:28] highvoltage, I was hoping to meet you on monday eve, as discussed, but it looks like you are very busy.. [02:28] wish it that result came earlier but it took so long which makes the whole progress of finding you disagree later === juliux [n=juliux@ubuntu/member/juliux] has joined #edubuntu [02:28] anyway i'll post to list about that later [02:29] pips1: i was on-line, but you weren't? [02:29] highvoltage, anyway, know I need to get back to work.. [02:29] pips1: i sent you another jabber message, did you get it? [02:29] highvoltage, oh?! [02:29]