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| BlueT_ | Seveas: pong | 03:44 |
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| Chousuke | echo foo | 11:24 |
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| === ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Edubuntu | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 22 Mar 14:00 UTC: Xubuntu | 23 Mar 18:00 UTC: Bug Squad | 23 Mar 20:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status | 28 Mar 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 29 Mar 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | ||
| ogra | pfft | 12:50 |
| ogra | still 10min to go ... | 12:50 |
| Seveas | ogra, it does that on purpose so it doesn't interfere with the meeting | 12:51 |
| jsgotangco | err edubuntu? | 12:51 |
| Seveas | I just realized there's a tiny buglet in it, it will switch to Xubuntu too early | 12:51 |
| jsgotangco | ahhh Xu | 12:51 |
| Seveas | jsgotangco, Edu in 8 minutes | 12:52 |
| Seveas | (According to the fridge) | 12:52 |
| jsgotangco | gahhh | 12:52 |
| ogra | as every wednesday :) | 12:54 |
| jsgotangco | yeah | 12:55 |
| jsgotangco | but i forgot | 12:55 |
| jsgotangco | im actually 5 beers drunk at work | 12:55 |
| ajmitch | heh | 12:56 |
| spacey | hi | 12:58 |
| spacey | oe beer | 12:58 |
| spacey | you know | 12:58 |
| spacey | this sunshine | 12:58 |
| spacey | calls for beer | 12:59 |
| spacey | first day of sunshine in 2006 here | 12:59 |
| === spacey longs for the summer | ||
| ogra | here its the second ... | 12:59 |
| ogra | we had a nice day on monday already :) | 12:59 |
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| spacey | lucky | 01:00 |
| pips1 | hi all | 01:00 |
| ogra | hi pips1 | 01:00 |
| === ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Edubuntu | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 22 Mar 14:00 UTC: Xubuntu | 23 Mar 20:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status | 28 Mar 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 29 Mar 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 30 Mar 02:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status | ||
| ogra | heh | 01:01 |
| ogra | thats the bell :) | 01:01 |
| Seveas | hmm | 01:01 |
| Seveas | no it's not, something's wrong | 01:01 |
| === jsgotangco *bamf* | ||
| ogra | but its handy | 01:01 |
| spacey | :) | 01:01 |
| Seveas | has the bugsquad meeting been canceled? | 01:01 |
| ogra | lets wait for the US to show up ... | 01:01 |
| spacey | JaneW: here already? | 01:02 |
| ogra | Seveas, moved to monday | 01:02 |
| ogra | nope, JaneW cant attend in the beginning | 01:02 |
| Seveas | that explains the sudden disappearance of it | 01:02 |
| Seveas | ok, I'll shut up | 01:02 |
| ogra | she's at school meeting a teacher | 01:02 |
| spacey | ah ok | 01:02 |
| === ogra taps his foot for flint ... | ||
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| ogra | ah | 01:03 |
| flint | ogra, you are bad people to hold meetings this early. | 01:03 |
| pips1 | hi flint | 01:03 |
| ogra | its early afternoon here, donno what you mean :P | 01:03 |
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| spacey | at least my point for the meeting is that the worksheet got neglected again | 01:03 |
| === pips1 munches on his lunch | ||
| flint | good morning from the frozen north... | 01:03 |
| ogra | morning flint :) | 01:04 |
| ogra | hey kjcole | 01:04 |
| flint | the coffee pot is a cold memory. | 01:04 |
| jsgotangco | good evening from beer laden asia | 01:04 |
| ogra | heh | 01:04 |
| ogra | so lets start ... | 01:04 |
| flint | jsgotangco, beer laden, sounds like a terrorist! | 01:04 |
| flint | :^) | 01:04 |
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| kjcole | hi all. My ISP is in flakey-land again, so I might disappear without warning. | 01:05 |
| flint | kjcole, hey kevin, thanks for your help | 01:05 |
| ogra | on the tech side, i worked a lot on the edubuntu-artwork package last week, we have our own gtk theme and i included a tango based icon theme for the "plain" flavour | 01:05 |
| pips1 | ogra, what happened to highvoltage, do you know? | 01:05 |
| ogra | no idea, sorry | 01:05 |
| === pips1 shuts up and listens | ||
| ogra | that gets us in the position to drop ubuntu-artwork from the CD | 01:06 |
| jsgotangco | ogra: do we still have space? | 01:06 |
| ogra | through my additions we loose 2Mb ... | 01:06 |
| jsgotangco | eeekkk | 01:06 |
| jsgotangco | there's goes my doc in svn | 01:06 |
| ogra | through dropping ubuntu-artwork we win 6MB :) | 01:06 |
| ogra | so the overall gain from this are 4 meg :) | 01:07 |
| flint | ogra, fine work. | 01:07 |
| ogra | if you run dapper, please update to the latest edubuntu-artwork and give some feedback | 01:07 |
| jsgotangco | ogra: will a daily work for me? | 01:08 |
| ogra | i'm sure there are still enough bugs in it to hunt | 01:08 |
| spacey | i will | 01:08 |
| spacey | ogra: i installed the edubuntu artwork | 01:08 |
| spacey | but i didn't get any theme | 01:08 |
| ogra | the dailies are broken until the next gwm upload | 01:08 |
| spacey | only the font changed | 01:08 |
| flint | ogra, think if legislatures and governments had the limitation you had when they drafted laws...or tax policy. | 01:08 |
| jsgotangco | hmmmm | 01:08 |
| ogra | gdm currently depends on ubuntu-artwork ... that makes the dailies oversized | 01:08 |
| flint | so flight 5 works an the daily works tomorrow eh? | 01:08 |
| ogra | flint, i'm not sure when seb128 planned the next gdm upload | 01:09 |
| jsgotangco | flight5 works fine | 01:09 |
| jsgotangco | you'll just have to update it | 01:09 |
| ogra | but its a trivial change, i can probably do myself | 01:09 |
| ogra | yes, flight5 should work fine | 01:09 |
| ogra | note that the artwork still doesnt have the final wallpaper work | 01:10 |
| flint | ogra, been busy, will load flight 5 this week. | 01:10 |
| jsgotangco | ogra: i understand correctly, we're not using oour pumpking colors? | 01:10 |
| ogra | the defaul wallpaper will be selected by canonical, for the "young" flavor, jane and highvoltage are in contact with the aouthor of the pic we selected in one of the last meetings | 01:11 |
| ogra | jsgotangco, exactly ... | 01:11 |
| jsgotangco | fair enough | 01:11 |
| spacey | ogra: something else on the tech side, we had some bugs with willow but author doesn't respond to mail. Makes it a bit less interesting for future inclusion. Although I didn't attempt any further contact yet. | 01:12 |
| ogra | i have seen some suggestions from the design agency and based our theme on that ... the pumpking colors looked horrible with the edubuntu orange ... | 01:12 |
| ogra | spacey, hey, its opensource ... worst we'll for it ;) | 01:12 |
| spacey | yup | 01:12 |
| spacey | true | 01:12 |
| spacey | :) | 01:12 |
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| ogra | i have to look very deep into the code anyway | 01:13 |
| jsgotangco | ogra: my conern here would be on disc space on the install cd because i currently have a document with screenshots, i'm not sure of the exact size yet so if you'd like an edubuntu specific doc in the cd space would be a concern | 01:13 |
| ogra | if we want to get rid of the multiverse dependency | 01:13 |
| ogra | jsgotangco, yes, it is | 01:13 |
| spacey | we encountered some bug that makes a few of the threads go beserk, | 01:13 |
| kjcole | ogra, I got the impression that a lot looked bad with the orange, and people were saying "change the orange". | 01:13 |
| spacey | i loved the orange | 01:13 |
| jsgotangco | because it still mixes with the brown palettes | 01:14 |
| ogra | kjcole, we have our own independent theme now ... | 01:14 |
| jsgotangco | that's why it doesn't jive | 01:14 |
| jsgotangco | but if you use pumpkin with gartoon, it'll look more like puke | 01:14 |
| spacey | :> | 01:14 |
| kjcole | (I wouldn't know because I installed edubuntu and then kubuntu-desktop on top of it... Haven't flipped over to the GNOME side of things recently.) | 01:15 |
| ogra | ah | 01:15 |
| ogra | ok, thats it from the tech side ... oh, btw, i just looked, yesterdays liveCD seems not oversized ... you might try that one for checking the theme ... | 01:16 |
| kjcole | New slogan "Puke: A theme for teenage boys." | 01:16 |
| spacey | in what package does that edubuntu theme and garnome reside? | 01:16 |
| flint | kjcole, lol | 01:16 |
| spacey | not it edubuntu-artwork it seems | 01:16 |
| ogra | spacey, edubuntu-artwork and gartoon-icon-theme | 01:17 |
| jsgotangco | ive said my piece | 01:17 |
| spacey | ah | 01:17 |
| jsgotangco | my concern is disc space | 01:17 |
| jsgotangco | if not, i'm satisified as a universe package | 01:17 |
| ogra | we could save 8Mb by dropping firefox :) | 01:17 |
| jsgotangco | would you? | 01:17 |
| ogra | in favor of epiphany ? | 01:17 |
| flint | ogra, harsh, very harsh :^) | 01:17 |
| jsgotangco | it's still moz | 01:17 |
| jsgotangco | i'd use epi anytime | 01:18 |
| ogra | (which is only 2MB big and has its translations already installed) | 01:18 |
| === jsgotangco acutally favors epi | ||
| ogra | i dont favor either one ... | 01:18 |
| spacey | ogra: i am in favour of epiphany :) | 01:18 |
| spacey | :P | 01:18 |
| spacey | gonna switch our terminal server this week | 01:18 |
| spacey | and see how the users like it | 01:18 |
| jsgotangco | ogra: would it be an issue if we drop something like firefox? | 01:19 |
| spacey | but doesn' epiphany still depend on firefox? | 01:19 |
| ogra | jsgotangco, i guess so ... | 01:19 |
| ogra | nope, | 01:19 |
| ogra | but yelp does, argh ! | 01:19 |
| spacey | ok thats great | 01:19 |
| spacey | oh :p | 01:19 |
| ogra | damned | 01:19 |
| ogra | so we cant drop it | 01:19 |
| spacey | maybe for dapper+1 :) | 01:19 |
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| ogra | yeah | 01:19 |
| ogra | dropping ff *and* its translation packages would gain us a *lot* | 01:20 |
| spacey | :) | 01:20 |
| ogra | ok, and other doc news ? | 01:20 |
| ogra | s/and/any/ | 01:20 |
| spacey | i finished up the hardware requirements | 01:21 |
| jsgotangco | ogra: but yelp relies on it | 01:21 |
| spacey | for the cookbook | 01:21 |
| jsgotangco | i think ooo relies on it too | 01:21 |
| flint | ogra, sadly the way of this is to shave and prune, which is time consuming. I like firefox. | 01:21 |
| spacey | and the worksheet still didn't get any attention | 01:21 |
| ogra | jsgotangco, i'm sure both would be fine with only libnspr ... | 01:21 |
| spacey | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuDocumentation/EdubuntuCookbook/HardwareRequirements | 01:21 |
| ogra | they need gecko, but not all of firefox | 01:21 |
| spacey | if someone can check it out for comments | 01:21 |
| === ogra looks | ||
| spacey | needs some extra love i think | 01:22 |
| spacey | but the main point is there | 01:22 |
| ogra | wow | 01:22 |
| ogra | i run 300MHz 64MB clients over here | 01:22 |
| ogra | :) | 01:22 |
| spacey | :P | 01:22 |
| spacey | little details | 01:22 |
| spacey | :) | 01:22 |
| ogra | you should add a minimal specs section :) | 01:23 |
| spacey | whats minimal | 01:23 |
| spacey | 100mhz and 16mb of ram? | 01:23 |
| ogra | but apart from that, very nice !! | 01:23 |
| ogra | nope+ | 01:23 |
| flint | spacey, nice page | 01:23 |
| ogra | 233MHz and 48MB i'd say | 01:23 |
| spacey | ok | 01:23 |
| spacey | i'll add that | 01:23 |
| ogra | thats the absolute minimum | 01:23 |
| spacey | another thing | 01:24 |
| ogra | tested are, as i said, 300 and 64 | 01:24 |
| spacey | does ltsp over ssh takes the same amount of network as normal LSTP (without compression)? | 01:24 |
| ogra | i heard it should take less than X transport | 01:24 |
| kjcole | I've got some horrible notes that I'm working on under "Getting Started". It's a jumble trying to explain hubs, switches, and routers to the unwashed masses -- and I'm one of the unwashed. | 01:25 |
| ogra | (but i have not measured it at all) | 01:25 |
| ogra | kjcole, sounds great :) | 01:25 |
| kjcole | It's kind of my notes as I learn about those "thingies" that are between my computer and the wall. | 01:25 |
| flint | spacey, might want to say something about video card and network cards... | 01:25 |
| ogra | i guess you all got that the release is delayed to july 1st | 01:26 |
| ogra | so we'll have some extra time for docs (just no space) | 01:26 |
| spacey | flint: like what? | 01:26 |
| spacey | besides get an PXE one | 01:26 |
| kjcole | ogra, From the resident atheist: "Praise be" | 01:26 |
| ogra | heh | 01:26 |
| kjcole | ogra (re: July 1. The gods have smiled.) | 01:27 |
| ogra | spacey, you should use a videocard with less than 2MB | 01:27 |
| flint | spacey, talk about the famous rom-o-matic, and link to supported (or unsupported) video cards. | 01:27 |
| ogra | (thats the least for 1024x786@16bit) | 01:27 |
| spacey | ogra: more then 2mb ?:) | 01:27 |
| kjcole | But, July 1 is the RELEASE date... when's the last time we can hand in our homework and hope it will be graded? | 01:27 |
| spacey | and you mean june 1st no july right? | 01:28 |
| ogra | nope | 01:28 |
| spacey | oh | 01:28 |
| ogra | err | 01:28 |
| ogra | yes, indeed | 01:28 |
| ogra | 6-06 :) | 01:28 |
| spacey | so 1st of june 2006 | 01:28 |
| spacey | :) | 01:28 |
| spacey | to be clear | 01:28 |
| ogra | yeah, sorry | 01:28 |
| spacey | :) | 01:28 |
| ogra | and s/should/shouldnt above indeed | 01:29 |
| spacey | flint: it links to rom-o-matic already | 01:29 |
| spacey | flint: i think any video card is supported as long as it does vesa or something | 01:29 |
| ogra | and apart from the videoram issue, i wouldnt know what else to say about videocards | 01:29 |
| jsgotangco | i gotta go first | 01:30 |
| jsgotangco | nice meething though | 01:30 |
| jsgotangco | ciao | 01:30 |
| ogra | ciao jsgotangco | 01:30 |
| flint | spacey, I just did not see the link on the page... | 01:30 |
| spacey | flint: well i didn't create a link section | 01:31 |
| spacey | but its in the text | 01:31 |
| spacey | ogra: so minimum 2m video ram? | 01:31 |
| ogra | yep | 01:31 |
| spacey | recommended video ram? | 01:31 |
| ogra | 4 ? | 01:31 |
| ogra | dunno | 01:31 |
| spacey | i have no idea either. never had problems with it | 01:31 |
| flint | ogra, is it a min of 2 meg or a usable max or 2 megs ram? | 01:32 |
| ogra | but do you have cards with less than 2m ? | 01:32 |
| ogra | flint, min 2 meg | 01:32 |
| flint | ogra, if you want to talk trident I can talk trident. | 01:32 |
| flint | :^) | 01:32 |
| ogra | heh | 01:32 |
| spacey | anything that does more then 256 colours and less then 2mb video ram? | 01:33 |
| ogra | not at 1024x786 | 01:33 |
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| spacey | :) | 01:33 |
| flint | spacey, the problem I run into is that the video card will boot in a resolution that is higher than the cheezy monitor I have hanging on a random box and it will not lock. | 01:33 |
| ogra | which is the resolution we default to if nothing can be detected ... | 01:33 |
| spacey | :> | 01:34 |
| ogra | flint, then you need to use lts.conf to configure it | 01:34 |
| flint | ogra, the ticket here is to tell the system <ctrl> <alt> - to drop or get a better monitor, so there is a montitor spec eh? | 01:34 |
| flint | ogra, not a great one but the monitor should do 1280 X 1024 or something | 01:35 |
| ogra | flint, i havent seen any monitors doing that ... in the rare cornercase where it might happen, you can manually adjust it in lts.conf | 01:35 |
| flint | ogra, should a monitor spec be included? | 01:35 |
| ogra | there is no monitor spec ... | 01:35 |
| === JaneW sneaks in and sits down quietly | ||
| ogra | nope, i dont think so | 01:36 |
| spacey | kjcole: jelkner: the edubuntucookbookworksheet still has no status information. If you are gonna do it please do it, if you cannot manage to do it then please say so, so that someone else can do it. | 01:36 |
| flint | ogra, keep in mind client systems are often not leading edge hardware... | 01:36 |
| ogra | even standard svga monitors will provide the data needed for configuration ... | 01:36 |
| flint | ogra, ok, I saw it once but I take your word on this. | 01:37 |
| spacey | jelkner or kjcole still here? | 01:37 |
| ogra | as i said, you can adjust it in lts.conf, thats what its for | 01:37 |
| ogra | if you use such hardware, you will expect problems i guess ;) it was never easy to get bad hardware running | 01:38 |
| kjcole | spacey, still here. though ISP still misbehaving. I'll say I can't manage. | 01:38 |
| spacey | kjcole: ok, but all available information is in the wiki? or still text somewhere else? | 01:39 |
| flint | spacey, they are, I am looking at the worksheet, what is it that has not been updated? | 01:39 |
| flint | https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuDocumentation/EdubuntuCookbook/Worksheet | 01:40 |
| spacey | flint: the status field, which is really convienant | 01:40 |
| kjcole | I took all the text as it was in Lore and put it into the wiki. So as far as I know, that's the only set of document anyone is updating now. | 01:40 |
| spacey | especially if someone is interesting in contributing | 01:40 |
| spacey | i don't have access to that lore thing | 01:40 |
| spacey | so i just put it in the wiki directly | 01:41 |
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| flint | spacey, there you have me, I susptect that no one but you and Herman have done anything this week worth posting. | 01:41 |
| ozric | hail techone | 01:41 |
| spacey | flint: i am herman | 01:41 |
| ozric | tech ones* | 01:41 |
| ogra | spacey, both of you ? | 01:41 |
| ogra | :) | 01:41 |
| kjcole | spacey, once I switched everything over, both jelkner and I have been working in the wiki. Since we were the only two doing lore, I think the wiki is now the definitive source. | 01:42 |
| flint | spacey, sincerely it is hard to stay this confused this much of the time :^) | 01:42 |
| spacey | kjcole: ok thats good | 01:42 |
| spacey | anyway if everything is in the wiki | 01:42 |
| spacey | i'll fix up the status stuff and then call out for some more volunteers to write | 01:42 |
| jelkner | spacey: i'm still here, but i've got to go soon | 01:42 |
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| flint | spacey, I like the wiki, and will update it when I get my lazy ass to contribute something... | 01:42 |
| ogra | jelkner, any news from your side ? | 01:42 |
| spacey | if jdub adds me to planet someone might actually read it as well | 01:42 |
| jelkner | yes | 01:43 |
| kjcole | spacey, I subscribed to all the pages and had been noticing all the recent activity. Thanx. | 01:43 |
| === spacey will send to mailinglist as well | ||
| jelkner | i started reworking the intro chapters now that i have a better understanding of what the cookbook is | 01:43 |
| jelkner | i'm also working with flint on a recipe for using edubuntu in a multi-lingual environment | 01:44 |
| jelkner | flint is wrting the recipe | 01:44 |
| spacey | jelkner: i'll leave to chapters that someone assiged to themselves for what it is for now, but all the rest I will try to get a status thing | 01:44 |
| jelkner | i'll test it and put it in the book | 01:44 |
| ogra | you should have a look at lts.conf settings etc as well ... wrt multi-lingual | 01:44 |
| jelkner | spacy: good | 01:44 |
| jelkner | flint: you still here? | 01:44 |
| jelkner | ogra: he has been in touch with you, yes? | 01:45 |
| pips1 | ogra, cue me re website whenever you feel it's a good moment | 01:45 |
| ogra | jelkner, yes, and i told him that it will be solved in ltsp in dapper+1 ... | 01:46 |
| jelkner | fine, but we need a recipe for now | 01:46 |
| ogra | pips1, ok, added :) | 01:46 |
| jelkner | that's the kind of thing the cookbook is for | 01:46 |
| flint | yes i was just screwing up the status page. | 01:46 |
| ogra | jelkner, might be, but please not in the cookbook | 01:46 |
| jelkner | ogra: ?? | 01:46 |
| ogra | you are fiddling with files you should fiddle with (~/.dmrc) | 01:47 |
| jelkner | what do you mean, not in the cookbook? | 01:47 |
| flint | ogra, yea buddy... | 01:47 |
| ogra | it will be solved in a non intrusive way in dapper+1 | 01:47 |
| ogra | please dont add breaking reciepes in the cookbook | 01:47 |
| ogra | s/should/shouldnt/ | 01:47 |
| ogra | (seems to be my typo of the day :( ) | 01:48 |
| jelkner | my understanding of the role of the cookbook is something like "google hacks" from oreilly | 01:48 |
| ogra | it will be solved in a sane manner | 01:48 |
| pips1 | ogra, what do you mean by that? | 01:48 |
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| jelkner | it will provide solutions to problems that have not been solved in an easy way in the distro yet | 01:48 |
| ogra | jelkner, then please use the right way and manage it with language packs and tzhe language selector ... thats what they are for | 01:49 |
| spacey | thats not my understanding of the cookbook | 01:49 |
| jelkner | spacey: what is your understanding of the cookbook? | 01:49 |
| pips1 | ogra, what would a 'breaking recipe' be? | 01:49 |
| ogra | we have tools to achieve what you want, dont reinvent the wheel ... | 01:49 |
| flint | ogra, what is a breaking reciepe? | 01:49 |
| spacey | it get someone without knowledge going with edubuntu | 01:49 |
| jelkner | spacey: that isn't going to happen | 01:49 |
| jelkner | unless someone other than kevin and i takes it over | 01:50 |
| ogra | pips1, a breaking reciepe would be "if you want this or that for all your users you add this shellscript to /etc/skel" | 01:50 |
| spacey | if you wants hacks you should call it EdubuntuHacks | 01:50 |
| jelkner | we are users, that kind of book needs to be written by core developers | 01:50 |
| spacey | users don't hack | 01:50 |
| pips1 | ogra, ah! cheers :-) | 01:50 |
| jelkner | spacey: are you volunteering to take over the cookbook? | 01:50 |
| ogra | it will work, but is an evil hack | 01:51 |
| jelkner | i'd be glad to turn over the keys to you | 01:51 |
| jelkner | ;-) | 01:51 |
| spacey | jelkner: i will consider it | 01:51 |
| jelkner | just let me know | 01:51 |
| spacey | first want that status information | 01:51 |
| spacey | since know i have no idea what needs to be done | 01:51 |
| jelkner | and kevin and i can work on "Edubuntu Community Hacks" | 01:51 |
| jelkner | i felt at this point that things like that could go in the cookbook | 01:52 |
| jelkner | since it would basically be a collection of "recipes" | 01:52 |
| ogra | jelkner, you misunderstand me | 01:52 |
| jelkner | and would be community driven | 01:52 |
| spacey | jelkner: i'm not a core developer but I feel what people need it a good introduction and understand how things work in edubuntu. | 01:52 |
| flint | ogra, actually we are all evil hackers :^) | 01:52 |
| spacey | what was your perception of this ogra? | 01:52 |
| jelkner | spacey: there are 2 ways you could make that happen (since i can't): | 01:52 |
| ogra | if you make reciepes like these, that can be solved easily with thre or five clicks in the gui tool, please dont reinvent the wheel and add weird hacks .. | 01:53 |
| spacey | its no use to hack around if the basics and workings are unfamiliar | 01:53 |
| kjcole | My own "grand vision" for what the cookbook ought to be is two-part: | 01:53 |
| jelkner | 1. you could add recipes to the current cookbook | 01:53 |
| ogra | thats my concern | 01:53 |
| ogra | not that this reciepe is added | 01:53 |
| jelkner | 2. we could decide that is in essence what the cookbook should be and someone with the ability to make it that should take it over | 01:53 |
| spacey | jelkner: i love the idea of recipes but first you need to know how to make the basic ingrediens | 01:53 |
| ogra | we have the multi-language tools on board ... | 01:54 |
| kjcole | the first part was largely tuxLab-like in nature: get non-technical folks -- teachers primarily -- exited and interested in a cheap lab where they have a lot of control, and give them the tools to set it up. | 01:54 |
| ogra | one target of the cookbook should be to promote what we have and its right usage ... | 01:54 |
| jelkner | ogra: then the current "recipe" should reflect the currently possible best way to do it | 01:54 |
| flint | ogra, if a teacher needs internationalization, and a command line script does the job, then it also instructs the gui tool builder of the future. | 01:54 |
| jelkner | i'm a field worker setting up edubuntu out in the community | 01:54 |
| ogra | jelkner, which is not by editing rc files | 01:54 |
| jelkner | i want to take care of the customers needs | 01:55 |
| jelkner | as soon as possible | 01:55 |
| jelkner | so i see recipes as way to do that | 01:55 |
| kjcole | part two would be recipes or "hacks" for the day-to-day, I-need-it-now-and-don't-have-time-for-the-perfect-solution, problems. | 01:55 |
| ogra | yes | 01:55 |
| flint | ogra, if you cannot edit rc files what can you edit? | 01:55 |
| spacey | i'm a field worker as well | 01:55 |
| spacey | if you want to call it like that | 01:55 |
| ogra | flint, you can edit waht ou want ... but there is a better way | 01:55 |
| pips1 | kjcole ++ | 01:56 |
| flint | ogra, and when the "better way" shows up, then it becomes the new reciepe | 01:56 |
| jelkner | exactly | 01:56 |
| ogra | flint, there *is* a better way since hoary ! | 01:56 |
| jelkner | then why don't we know it | 01:56 |
| spacey | kjcole: anyway the first part is the most important one IMHO and its needs to be finished | 01:56 |
| ogra | dunno ... | 01:57 |
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| ogra | i can only point again to language packs, keamap selector in gnome and the language selector | 01:57 |
| flint | ogra, whenever we ask for a feature (say local storage) we get told that it will not go in. local storage might become a reciepe | 01:57 |
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| jelkner | well, students are arriving, i need to run... | 01:57 |
| ogra | flint, thats fine | 01:57 |
| pips1 | spacey, kjcole I agree about 1. basics 2. hacks | 01:57 |
| kjcole | ogra, the big problem with GUI solutions is you need an artist. ;-) My thoughts would be to try to get people less frightened of the command-line and editing files, while not badmouthing GUI solutions. | 01:58 |
| flint | ogra, I tried that as did elkner, you have to be at the terminal to switch languages. The teacher is at the console. | 01:58 |
| spacey | pips1: are you interested in writing up some stuff in the cookbook later on? | 01:58 |
| ogra | kjcole, but do you agree, its easier to explain how to start a specific app and check two checkboxes next to your language than scaring users by adding third party scripts that edit rc files ? | 01:59 |
| pips1 | jelkner, flint : do you feel the "basics" don't need to be in the cookbook? | 01:59 |
| ogra | if you make reciepes, please try to make them the most userfriendly way | 01:59 |
| ogra | anyway, we're running out of time | 02:00 |
| pips1 | spacey, I don't have much linux experience under my hat, and I'm busy with edubuntu website already, sorry | 02:00 |
| flint | pips1, basics should be in the default browser page on the CD. the book suplements the edubuntu CD eh? | 02:00 |
| ogra | pips1, so tell us about the website | 02:00 |
| spacey | pips1: ok, np, just checking for possible victims:) | 02:00 |
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| pips1 | flint, right | 02:01 |
| ogra | hey highvoltage ... | 02:01 |
| kjcole | ogra, agreed. Scripts are cool, but if users are going to fool around with editing, it should be them doing the editing, not a third party script -- at least not without a lot of up-front explaination first. | 02:01 |
| flint | ogra, I promise you that both you and elkner will be upset with the reciepes, equally upset. | 02:01 |
| pips1 | highvoltage, good timing! | 02:01 |
| pips1 | ok, here I go re website | 02:01 |
| highvoltage | hi ogra, pips1, kjcole and flint | 02:02 |
| highvoltage | running late, sorry! | 02:02 |
| ogra | flint, i just expect it to be written in a "ubuntu" way | 02:02 |
| pips1 | I'm thinking about the maintenance of the website. Not just in terms of technical maintenance, but in terms of content maintenance and successfully supporting a community. And hopefully, sustained growth of the community beyond our wildest dreams ;-) | 02:02 |
| flint | highvoltage, excellent we were just going on about the documentation. I still like TuxLab Jonathan. | 02:02 |
| highvoltage | :) | 02:02 |
| ogra | flint, have a look at the ubuntu server guide (installed in dapper by default) | 02:02 |
| pips1 | Regarding features on the website, I'd like to start small and add more as the need arises. However, I think the first impression is important. We want to inspire enthusiasm, but avoid hype, IMO. Managing expectations is important. | 02:02 |
| highvoltage | pips1: that maintenance is what i committed to two weeks ago :) | 02:02 |
| kjcole | spacey, also agreed regarding the first part of the cookbook being more important. That reaches out to the unconverted and nervous. | 02:02 |
| flint | ogra, give me a url... | 02:02 |
| highvoltage | pips1: well said | 02:02 |
| pips1 | So, it'd be nice to foster a community around Edubuntu, not just sysadmins, but also teachers and students. I don't want to replicate stuff that's already available elsewhere on the web... so, how what's our "place"? | 02:02 |
| ogra | flint, its in your help browser in dapper | 02:03 |
| pips1 | What users to we want to cater for? | 02:03 |
| flint | ogra, gotcha. will look. | 02:03 |
| pips1 | What content is the "core edubuntu team" (i.e. us, here) going to provide? | 02:03 |
| highvoltage | pips1: the website should be several things, i think | 02:03 |
| pips1 | What content are new users expected to be able to contribute, besides documentation? What communication about non-technical subjects should we encourage? What about curriculum development with edu apps, e.g.? Should the Edubuntu really cater for that? | 02:03 |
| kjcole | high, highvoltage ;-) | 02:03 |
| highvoltage | 1) It should cater for educators looking for help and documentation on edubuntu | 02:04 |
| highvoltage | 2) id should cater for those who want to do a roll-out of edubuntu labs, and need help | 02:04 |
| ogra | it should also be a meeting point for users ... | 02:04 |
| highvoltage | btw- these are just my thoughts, they are not set in stone and completely subject to change by your imput :) | 02:04 |
| highvoltage | 3) it should also be a meeting point for users | 02:04 |
| ogra | heh :) | 02:05 |
| highvoltage | :) | 02:05 |
| highvoltage | and for people working collaboratively on edubuntu, aka the edubuntu community | 02:05 |
| jdub | spacey: did anyone ever tell you that you look *just like* jorn baayen? | 02:05 |
| ogra | yep | 02:05 |
| === highvoltage notes this down | ||
| spacey | jdub: no one :) | 02:05 |
| spacey | who is it? | 02:05 |
| highvoltage | pips1: any thoughts on this? | 02:05 |
| jdub | spacey: author of muine, original author of rhythmbox. | 02:05 |
| pips1 | What about curriculum development with edu apps, e.g.? Should the Edubuntu really cater for that? | 02:06 |
| spacey | jdub: link? | 02:06 |
| highvoltage | pips1: imo, it could eventually. there's certainly a need, and demand for that. | 02:06 |
| kjcole | pips1, it's a selling point, so probably yes. | 02:06 |
| ogra | pips1, we should encourage it ... | 02:06 |
| highvoltage | pips1: i don't think we currently have all the people we have for that, but it's something we should keep in mind with the design, because it's likely to spread in those areas in the future | 02:06 |
| spacey | jdub: apparently i look like a lot of people, last time i went to the sportcenter some girl cursed at me for not recognizing her :p | 02:06 |
| highvoltage | spacey: yeah, i get that a lot | 02:07 |
| pips1 | There are websites dedicated to educational content already, I don't know too much re website on curriculum development... as I said, I mainly want to know what to focus on, to avoid duplication. | 02:07 |
| jdub | spacey: hrm, can't find picture. | 02:07 |
| spacey | jdub: you added me to planet, thanks :) | 02:08 |
| pips1 | If we want to encourage a certain type of content and user contributions, I feel we need to have a bit of content of that sort there already, to get it started... | 02:09 |
| jdub | spacey: saw your hackergotchi in the process, had to double check it was the one from your email :) | 02:09 |
| kjcole | I also think it's very, very important to stress the idea that this is about community. I've recently had a teacher that I encouraged to switch to Ubuntu instead try Mephis because someone gave it to him. | 02:09 |
| spacey | :) | 02:09 |
| flint | pips1, at this time, the big threat I see to this documentation activity is the flash screen capture and voice over programs under windows, these work GREAT and make for quick documentation of a programming environment. There is nothing like it in our arsenal. | 02:09 |
| spacey | jdub: more edubuntu coming up @ planet now :P | 02:09 |
| ogra | yay | 02:09 |
| kjcole | He went down the road alone, and now is lost, in spite of me trying to encourage him to ask questions. He's about ready to give up, and I've told him I'll sit down with him and Edubuntu... | 02:09 |
| === ogra should start blogging again as well ... | ||
| pips1 | flint, right | 02:10 |
| jdub | spacey: sweet! | 02:10 |
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| jdub | spacey: edubuntu means cakes. | 02:10 |
| highvoltage | pips1: sorry, did we loose track of what you were saying about the website? | 02:10 |
| spacey | :P | 02:10 |
| pips1 | highvoltage, well, sort of :-) | 02:10 |
| spacey | sorry pips1:) | 02:10 |
| kjcole | jdub, the way to a man's stomach is through his computer? ;-) | 02:11 |
| flint | pips1, do you remember the names of these flash generators under windows? I have been trying for several days to remember (getting old sucks :^) | 02:11 |
| highvoltage | there's one for linux that works ok'ish, called 'wink' | 02:11 |
| ogra | pips1, lets make a call to the mailing list for defaul content selection | 02:11 |
| spacey | kjcole: and getting to his stomach means love | 02:11 |
| ogra | we have a bunch of educators reading it :) | 02:11 |
| flint | highvoltage, yea it is a wimzical combination of audio capture and vnc right? | 02:11 |
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| pips1 | ogra, regarding blogging, drupal offers blogging out of the box, would you be interested in enabling a blog section on the new website then? (of course, blogs can always be easily integrated via rss feeds)? what do you say? | 02:12 |
| highvoltage | flint: i don't think it uses vnc | 02:12 |
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| ogra | pips1, sure, sounds good ... | 02:12 |
| pips1 | ogra, good idea to make a call on the list, I was thinking the same thing :-) | 02:12 |
| spacey | pips1: in a non intrusive way:) | 02:13 |
| pips1 | spacey, what do you mean? | 02:13 |
| ogra | so you mean something like planet.edubuntu ? | 02:13 |
| spacey | well i don't think its really important for the website | 02:13 |
| ogra | or even hosting the blogs ? | 02:13 |
| spacey | ogra: drupal can do both i think | 02:13 |
| pips1 | ogra, it could simply be a section (main navigation item) "blog" on the website | 02:13 |
| ogra | yep | 02:14 |
| ogra | ok, we're out of time, lets move that discussion to the list ... | 02:14 |
| kjcole | Would it be useful to have a more formal web-based survey anywhere to collect thoughts/wish-lists in some organized fashion? | 02:14 |
| spacey | ok :) | 02:14 |
| pips1 | in drupal, every user could have their own blog, *if* we wanted | 02:14 |
| ogra | any other artwork related info apart from the tech update ? | 02:15 |
| kjcole | Oops. We ARE out of time, which means I'm going to be late for work... ta-ta. | 02:15 |
| pips1 | every user = every user with an account | 02:15 |
| flint | kjcole, stay well whatch the traffic! | 02:15 |
| ogra | pips1, could you contact the LP people if its possible to attach the account management to launchpad ? | 02:16 |
| pips1 | ogra, that's currently actually a todo item on highvoltage's list :-) | 02:16 |
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| ogra | it would be nice if we culd do the member management of the website via the edubuntu team in launchpad | 02:16 |
| ogra | ah, k | 02:17 |
| ogra | so anyone up with additional artwork tasks ? | 02:17 |
| pips1 | highvoltage, you still here? | 02:17 |
| ajmitch | ogra: you'd need to use launchpad's authserver then, I think | 02:17 |
| ogra | ajmitch, fine ... as long as it works :) | 02:17 |
| ogra | ok, no artwork it seems ... | 02:18 |
| ogra | JaneW, community/management issues you want to talk about ? | 02:18 |
| highvoltage | pips1: sorry, just arrived in the office and people are bugging me | 02:19 |
| ogra | ok, given that we are 20min over time, lets close that meeting now ... seems there are no open topics anymore for now ... | 02:19 |
| JaneW | ogra: *thinks* | 02:19 |
| === flint flint is comfortable with the trouble he has caused for this morning... | ||
| JaneW | oh yes we have entered Edubuntu into the Prix Arz Electronica 2006 competition | 02:19 |
| JaneW | ogra: did you get my mail? | 02:20 |
| ogra | yeah | 02:20 |
| ogra | yep | 02:20 |
| JaneW | you able to mail it off, or should I just do it from here? | 02:20 |
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| ogra | no, i'm fine mailing it | 02:20 |
| JaneW | I thought it was more likely to get there from you | 02:20 |
| JaneW | our snail mail service sucks | 02:20 |
| highvoltage | flint: that's not the attitude! | 02:20 |
| JaneW | thanks | 02:20 |
| ogra | i'll trow it in today ... | 02:20 |
| ogra | *throw | 02:20 |
| JaneW | ogra: I praised you in your bio | 02:20 |
| JaneW | and said you deserve and award! | 02:21 |
| ogra | heh, really ? | 02:21 |
| JaneW | and=an | 02:21 |
| flint | highvoltage, indeed :^) | 02:21 |
| ogra | :) | 02:21 |
| JaneW | ogra: so I hope you get it :)) | 02:21 |
| flint | ogra, if for nothing else for stoic patience, and I mean that. | 02:21 |
| JaneW | is everything else on track? | 02:21 |
| highvoltage | JaneW: what's this that ogra's getting? | 02:22 |
| flint | JaneW, everything is fine, nothing to see here... just move on... yea, that's it | 02:22 |
| ogra | JaneW, apart from the CDs being oversized (which is never news)... | 02:22 |
| JaneW | the entry form has to be printed signed and physically mailed to be valid | 02:22 |
| JaneW | *shrug* | 02:22 |
| JaneW | odd I know | 02:22 |
| ogra | we were discussin the option to drop firefox... but to many things depend directly on it (which is a bug imho) | 02:23 |
| flint | is this Prix Arz Electronica 2006 a particular nationality, I would prefer french so as to anger the bush admin. | 02:23 |
| ogra | flint, austrian | 02:23 |
| ogra | relatively popular in the german speaking europe ... | 02:24 |
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| flint | ogra, that will only mildly annoy our state department :^( | 02:24 |
| ogra | ok, lest move to #edubuntu | 02:24 |
| spacey | k | 02:24 |
| ogra | xubuntu wants the room... | 02:24 |
| ogra | (in 30 min) | 02:24 |
| flint | ogra, thanks see you there in about the same, gotta get a cigar. | 02:24 |
| flint | sksk | 02:24 |
| === flint [n=flint@montpeliervt-cuda1-24-50-146-184.sbtnvt.adelphia.net] has left #ubuntu-meeting ["Leaving"] | ||
| ogra | :) | 02:24 |
| Seveas | ogra, beware of the janimo :) | 02:25 |
| ogra | hehe | 02:25 |
| ogra | yep :) | 02:25 |
| janimo | Seveas, no prob go ahead | 02:25 |
| janimo | we can wait | 02:25 |
| Seveas | janimo, I was just joking | 02:25 |
| janimo | Seveas: ah ok :) | 02:25 |
| Seveas | ogra's groupies have finished already | 02:25 |
| nomed | hi all | 02:26 |
| janimo | nomed: hi | 02:26 |
| nomed | hey janimo | 02:27 |
| nomed | nice news from xarchiver :) | 02:27 |
| nomed | benny and the xarchiver has had an irc session ... | 02:27 |
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| nomed | it's really possible it'll be adopted as xfce archive manager | 02:28 |
| janimo | nomed, yes just read xfce-devel | 02:28 |
| janimo | did you put the mail client issue on the agenda? | 02:29 |
| nomed | yes | 02:29 |
| janimo | good | 02:29 |
| janimo | I was just thinking about that these days | 02:29 |
| janimo | whether to use sylpheed/t-bird or nothing by default | 02:29 |
| Seveas | janimo, mutt ;) | 02:30 |
| janimo | Seveas: mutt-gtk | 02:30 |
| janimo | ;) | 02:30 |
| Seveas | there IS such a thing? | 02:30 |
| janimo | nope :) | 02:30 |
| nomed | mutt-ng :) | 02:30 |
| === ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 22 Mar 14:00 UTC: Xubuntu | 23 Mar 20:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status | 28 Mar 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 29 Mar 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 30 Mar 02:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status | 31 Mar 21:00 UTC: Documentation Team | ||
| janimo | mutt-gtk-ng-claws | 02:30 |
| Seveas | uh? | 02:30 |
| Seveas | Ubugtu, broken crappy thing | 02:30 |
| nomed | janimo, it exists really :D | 02:30 |
| Seveas | ogra, or was the edubuntu meeting only 1 hour? | 02:31 |
| janimo | mutt-ng I know | 02:31 |
| nomed | i used it for a while it was really cool ... | 02:31 |
| janimo | has nntp among othres | 02:31 |
| nomed | then i just use web frontend | 02:31 |
| janimo | wonder why it's not in ubuntu as it was in deb experimental almost a year ago I think | 02:31 |
| ogra | Seveas, 80min | 02:31 |
| Seveas | ogra, I meen fridge-scheduled | 02:32 |
| ogra | usually we only have 1h, yes | 02:32 |
| Seveas | ah, then Ubugtu is not broken | 02:32 |
| Seveas | @schedule Europe/Bucharest | 02:33 |
| Ubugtu | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 22 Mar 16:00: Xubuntu | 23 Mar 22:00: Dapper Development Status | 28 Mar 23:00: Technical Board | 29 Mar 15:00: Edubuntu | 30 Mar 05:00: Dapper Development Status | 01 Apr 00:00: Documentation Team | 02:33 |
| Seveas | hah, even with correct DST handling (!) | 02:34 |
| janimo | Seveas: hmm what's with the non-UTC time? | 02:39 |
| Seveas | janimo, it's a feature for people who have difficulties calculating in UTC | 02:40 |
| janimo | Seveas: so is ubugtu translating? cool | 02:40 |
| janimo | I feared for a moment I set the meeting time in EET | 02:40 |
| Seveas | no, Ubugtu will complain if you do that | 02:41 |
| ajmitch | Seveas: yes, it handled the NZST->NZDT change right when it happened | 02:41 |
| Seveas | he wants to manage the topic ;) | 02:41 |
| === ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Xubuntu | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 23 Mar 20:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status | 28 Mar 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 29 Mar 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 30 Mar 02:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status | 31 Mar 21:00 UTC: Documentation Team | ||
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| janimo | ok let's start | 03:01 |
| janimo | hello all | 03:01 |
| Gloubiboulga | hi Jani | 03:01 |
| janimo | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/XubuntuMeetingAgenda | 03:01 |
| janimo | hi Gauvain | 03:02 |
| janimo | item 1) mail client | 03:02 |
| janimo | it was discussed previously that we should go one of the sylpheeds | 03:02 |
| janimo | preferebaly claws | 03:02 |
| nomed | janimo, i agree | 03:03 |
| Gloubiboulga | sounds logical, it's lighter than TB | 03:03 |
| nomed | but maybe for dapper wouldn't it better to use thunderbird ? | 03:03 |
| janimo | there is still no mail client in the default desktop | 03:03 |
| nomed | i mean ... any problem to get it in main ? | 03:03 |
| janimo | I summarized lightly the pros/cons I see with sylpheed/t-bird no client | 03:03 |
| janimo | on that pahe | 03:03 |
| janimo | nomed, not as much of a problem of getting it in main | 03:04 |
| janimo | s/pahe/page/ | 03:04 |
| janimo | but subsequent support | 03:04 |
| janimo | I did not hear bad things about s-claws | 03:04 |
| janimo | but did not use it either | 03:04 |
| janimo | I do not know how it stands re stability and security | 03:05 |
| nomed | from what i know it should be ok | 03:05 |
| janimo | I remember Colin (sylpheed claws developer) assured us on xubuntu-devel that all is good | 03:05 |
| nomed | yep i remember | 03:05 |
| janimo | so the only con is that it is not in main and we'd put another extra package in the list to support | 03:05 |
| janimo | I am wondering if this is worth it considering that most non-techincal people will not use pop/imap/nntp AFAIK | 03:06 |
| nomed | i think xubuntu should have a mail client | 03:06 |
| janimo | and those who do will pick their favourite client anyway | 03:06 |
| janimo | nomed: that's waht I was thinking about. should it? | 03:07 |
| nomed | sylpheed claws as first for me | 03:07 |
| nomed | if there are problems ... thunderbird | 03:07 |
| nomed | but we should have one | 03:07 |
| janimo | how do we know there are problems | 03:08 |
| janimo | and what are problems in this context? | 03:08 |
| janimo | the latest claws is still not in dapper form what I saw | 03:08 |
| nomed | we'd put another extra package in the list to support<-- | 03:08 |
| janimo | neither claws not t-bird do what evolution does not by default at least (cal, palm sync, talk to exchange etc) | 03:09 |
| janimo | so the corpporate desktop scenario where users must use such a client is not valid imho | 03:09 |
| janimo | whereas normal people mostly use the web | 03:09 |
| janimo | a web interface for mail I mean | 03:10 |
| nomed | yes that's true | 03:10 |
| irvin | janimo: i agree with that | 03:10 |
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| janimo | what I don't know is how many people would use a pop/imap client just as naturally as they do gaim/firefox | 03:10 |
| nomed | but on a distro i would expect a mail client anyway ... | 03:10 |
| janimo | it is not the tipical non-geek use case | 03:10 |
| janimo | nomed, yes that expectance I am aware of, was just thinking it may need revisiting | 03:11 |
| nomed | janimo, at the moment there is not a mail client that can do the same as evolution | 03:11 |
| janimo | kmail and evo are shipped not necessarily because of this expectance but because they are core parts of gnoom/kde | 03:11 |
| nomed | from what i know | 03:11 |
| nomed | but thunderbird exists even for windows users | 03:12 |
| janimo | nomed, that is a blessing actually :) | 03:12 |
| janimo | re evolution not windows | 03:12 |
| janimo | nomed, s-claws runs on win32 too | 03:12 |
| janimo | original sylpheed does at least | 03:12 |
| nomed | it should yes | 03:13 |
| nomed | but i think most of windows users uses thunderbird if not outlook | 03:13 |
| janimo | so maybe we should release the first ISO's with no mail client and state that in the announcement | 03:13 |
| nomed | yep | 03:13 |
| janimo | if the feedback is mostly negative recosider | 03:13 |
| janimo | I find t-birds interface more usable than sylpheeds so that is a plus | 03:14 |
| janimo | too bad it's not as light | 03:14 |
| janimo | other opinions? | 03:14 |
| ranf | Is mutt in main? | 03:15 |
| nomed | as gnu/linux user i would have claws | 03:15 |
| janimo | ranf, I suppose but that's not GUI | 03:15 |
| nomed | but as new gnu/linux user i guess i would be happy to see thunderbird | 03:15 |
| janimo | opinions whether to have a mail client by default or not for now | 03:15 |
| janimo | not which one to pick | 03:15 |
| janimo | nomed, indeed the emphasis should be on new users as with the rest of the desktop | 03:16 |
| nomed | well ... i think we should have one as i told | 03:16 |
| janimo | the more experienced ones know they way around to pick their favourite | 03:16 |
| nomed | janimo, what i think is that if galago will be part of dapper +1 | 03:16 |
| nomed | then we should follow claws development | 03:16 |
| nomed | but for dapper thunderbird is the best one i think | 03:17 |
| janimo | nomed, do they collaborate or why? | 03:17 |
| janimo | galago and claws I mean | 03:18 |
| nomed | janimo, when the claws devel contacted xubuntu | 03:18 |
| nomed | i asked if it was possible to integrate galago | 03:18 |
| nomed | and he told he didn't know that stuff | 03:18 |
| nomed | but he was happy to work on that | 03:18 |
| janimo | nomed, ah ok. Anyway we'll see if galago will be part of dapper +1 first | 03:19 |
| nomed | that's why i was thinking claws should be the xubuntu mail client | 03:19 |
| nomed | and that's why i think at the moment thunderbird is the best one | 03:19 |
| janimo | but since galago is not here yet that cannot be a reason for claws at this moment | 03:19 |
| janimo | ok | 03:19 |
| janimo | item 2) xrachiver | 03:20 |
| janimo | not much to discuss here right? | 03:20 |
| nomed | yep | 03:20 |
| janimo | seems well on track with upstream collaborating | 03:20 |
| nomed | exactly | 03:21 |
| janimo | Gloubiboulga: do you know what the exact problems are with xkb? | 03:21 |
| janimo | does upstream test on dapper by any chance? | 03:21 |
| Gloubiboulga | janimo, yes, it doesn't detect the different keymaps | 03:22 |
| Gloubiboulga | he works on debian unstable | 03:22 |
| Gloubiboulga | I try to see how he could use libxkeyboard | 03:22 |
| janimo | ok that's close enough | 03:22 |
| Gloubiboulga | libxklavier* | 03:22 |
| janimo | :) | 03:22 |
| janimo | so it does not yet work for him either on debian? | 03:22 |
| irvin | can i butt in a quick question (i hope it's not offtopic)... i only saw abiword as the office suite in xubuntu, is there a plan to include others (e.g., gnumeric)? | 03:23 |
| Gloubiboulga | it does work for him, but the plugin doesn't manage all the config possibilities of X | 03:23 |
| janimo | irvin, gnumeric will probably be on the CD but not by default | 03:23 |
| janimo | as it uses gnome deps which so far we had not time to tackle | 03:23 |
| irvin | i see | 03:24 |
| janimo | upstream is buildable without gnome but the debian packaging does not take advantage of this | 03:24 |
| janimo | irvin, do you think it is a porb if it is not installed by default? | 03:24 |
| janimo | Gloubiboulga: ok but he'll probably figure it out I guess. | 03:24 |
| Gloubiboulga | janimo, yes, I think he will | 03:24 |
| irvin | janimo: yes i think so | 03:24 |
| janimo | irvin, why? | 03:25 |
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| janimo | the speardsheet is one of the apps I also think are not for most regular users | 03:26 |
| janimo | unlike a word processor | 03:26 |
| janimo | hence the lower priority in getting it in shape | 03:26 |
| irvin | janimo: i beg to differ, but i see a lot of spreadsheet users on low-end computers | 03:27 |
| janimo | irvin, fair enough | 03:27 |
| irvin | janimo: there should be at least a word processor and a spreadsheet app in xubuntu | 03:27 |
| janimo | but aren;t they more specialized users than average home user? | 03:28 |
| irvin | janimo: personally i use more often, as i deal with numbers (engineering work) all the time | 03:28 |
| janimo | like, office people and such | 03:28 |
| janimo | ok, engineers, clerks etc | 03:28 |
| janimo | but gramma? :) | 03:28 |
| nomed | janimo, students in general may need it .... | 03:28 |
| janimo | as with the email app I am trying to think not in terms of what a regular advert looks for an os (document,spreadsheets,music, mail) | 03:29 |
| janimo | but actually what is getting used more often | 03:29 |
| janimo | especially in schools, net cafes, shared terminal in libraries and such | 03:30 |
| nomed | janimo, yes i understand | 03:30 |
| janimo | but I know it is essential for some users so it i=definitely is on the CD | 03:30 |
| janimo | I am just wondering about the default install | 03:30 |
| janimo | and the only thing preventing the latter is that gnumeric stil has gnome deps | 03:31 |
| nomed | janimo, gnumeric is not gnome free | 03:31 |
| irvin | janimo: what's wrong with having it installed by default? | 03:31 |
| nomed | so .. | 03:31 |
| nomed | we can work on it .. but we 're still few devels | 03:31 |
| janimo | irvin, we had a semi-official policy for xubuntu | 03:31 |
| nomed | i hope for dapper +1 this will change | 03:31 |
| irvin | i guess we'll have to look for an alternative to gnumeric | 03:31 |
| janimo | not having gnome/kde apps in the defaqult install | 03:31 |
| janimo | to keep install slim | 03:31 |
| janimo | irvin, no gnomeric is the best alternaive I am sure no need for alternatives | 03:32 |
| Gloubiboulga | it looks like gnumeric can be built without gnome stuff, someone tested this already ? | 03:32 |
| janimo | Gloubiboulga: I know it works since it runs on windows :) | 03:32 |
| Gloubiboulga | in this case, why not creating a gnumeric-gtk package ? | 03:32 |
| janimo | I talked to the debian maintainer and he said he'd take clean patches to make a gnumeric-gtk binary too | 03:32 |
| janimo | but it is not too easy | 03:32 |
| Gloubiboulga | ok | 03:33 |
| janimo | since it depends on libgoffice | 03:33 |
| janimo | which can also build without gnome | 03:33 |
| janimo | so we need to 1) make a goffice and goffice-gtk | 03:33 |
| janimo | then a gnumeric-gtk which uses goffice-gtk | 03:33 |
| janimo | it is actually doable just was a mess when I tried last time | 03:33 |
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| janimo | given the interest, the 6 extra weeks and that I'd also like gnumeric installed by default I think this needs another try | 03:34 |
| Gloubiboulga | yep | 03:34 |
| janimo | Gloubiboulga: would you be interested? :) | 03:34 |
| Gloubiboulga | yes, I am :) | 03:35 |
| nomed | cool! | 03:35 |
| irvin | \o/ for Gloubiboulga | 03:35 |
| janimo | ok let's discuss this after the meeting | 03:35 |
| janimo | which may be right now :) | 03:35 |
| Gloubiboulga | I'll call for help if I fail ;) | 03:35 |
| janimo | \0/ for Gloubiboulga | 03:35 |
| Gloubiboulga | janimo, sorry I have to leave right now (already late) | 03:35 |
| janimo | ideally we'd cooperate with upstream debian packager since he was open to the idea | 03:36 |
| janimo | just did not want to do it himself | 03:36 |
| janimo | Gloubiboulga: np | 03:36 |
| janimo | we can discuss another time | 03:36 |
| Gloubiboulga | ok | 03:36 |
| Gloubiboulga | cu later | 03:36 |
| janimo | irvin: ok so thanks for prodding we'll take a shot at tthis | 03:36 |
| irvin | ok | 03:36 |
| irvin | janimo: no prob | 03:36 |
| janimo | ok if there's nothing else to talk about | 03:37 |
| nomed | janimo, shouldn't be removed from mirrors old pkges ? | 03:38 |
| janimo | we can end the meeting | 03:38 |
| janimo | nomed, right we should | 03:38 |
| janimo | but that needs communicating with LP admins or whoever else | 03:38 |
| janimo | I think there's a wikipage with candidates for removal | 03:38 |
| janimo | I don;t know which is it | 03:38 |
| janimo | and I think someone regularly purges it | 03:38 |
| janimo | but this may just be a myth | 03:38 |
| nomed | any of them here ? | 03:39 |
| janimo | we definitely need to purge our old packages before release | 03:39 |
| nomed | we can list all of them and ask then .. | 03:39 |
| janimo | I don;t think any xfce package is put there,no | 03:39 |
| janimo | nomed, sure | 03:39 |
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| janimo | the ones we talked about last time right? | 03:39 |
| janimo | old plugins + toys | 03:39 |
| nomed | yes | 03:40 |
| janimo | if you find that page feel free to add them :) | 03:40 |
| nomed | k :) | 03:40 |
| janimo | but with plugins which are not explicitely superceded wait a bit later | 03:40 |
| janimo | since they may get ported | 03:40 |
| nomed | sure | 03:40 |
| janimo | by dapper | 03:40 |
| janimo | ok | 03:41 |
| janimo | thanks | 03:41 |
| nomed | cu next meeting | 03:41 |
| janimo | ok, end of meeting I'll try to summarize it and send a mail | 03:41 |
| janimo | bye all | 03:41 |
| nomed | bye | 03:41 |
| ranf | bye | 03:42 |
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| === ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 23 Mar 20:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status | 28 Mar 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 29 Mar 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 30 Mar 02:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status | 31 Mar 21:00 UTC: Documentation Team | 03 Apr 09:00 UTC: Community Council | ||
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| dholbach | @schedule Europe/Berlin | 08:43 |
| Ubugtu | Schedule for Europe/Berlin: 23 Mar 21:00: Dapper Development Status | 28 Mar 22:00: Technical Board | 29 Mar 14:00: Edubuntu | 30 Mar 04:00: Dapper Development Status | 31 Mar 23:00: Documentation Team | 03 Apr 11:00: Community Council | 08:43 |
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