[12:26] <raphink> fr
[12:26] <raphink> oops
[12:31] <LaserJock> lol
[12:32] <LaserJock> yes, you are fr raphink ;-)
[12:32] <raphink> lol
[01:38] <bddebian> Heya gang
[01:38] <crimsun> 'lo
[01:39] <LaserJock> hi bddebian
[01:40] <crimsun> 'lo lj
[01:40] <bddebian> Heya LaserJock, crimsun
[01:41] <LaserJock> hi crimsun
[01:42] <bddebian> Any response from ogra on \sh?
[01:42] <tseng> no.
[01:43] <ogra> can someone collect all mail adresses of people willing to donate something ?
[01:43] <ogra> and send it to me ?
[01:44] <ogra> i'll send a mail with my bank account data and you can transfer if you want ... i'll carry it to \sh then ...
[01:48] <Toadstool> gn8 everybody
[02:49] <crimsun> hah.
[02:49] <crimsun> #include "../access/mms/asf.h"  /* Who said ugly ? */
[02:51] <ajmitch> heh
[02:51] <ajmitch> hi crimsun
[02:54] <crimsun> 'lo ajmitch
[02:56] <ajmitch> sounds like \sh is not in a good way at the moment
[02:57] <crimsun> no :/
[03:10] <crimsun> hooray, sound should rock in dapper
[03:11] <ajmitch> yay!
[03:11] <ajmitch> it works well for me
[03:11] <bddebian> Is someone going to send ogra mails or should I just mail him directly?
[03:12] <crimsun> bddebian: should collect e-mail addresses then send to ogra
[03:14] <Amaranth> i actually have to figure out some expensives before i know how much i can send
[03:20] <ajmitch> oh this is evil crap
[03:20] <bddebian> libgc?
[03:20] <bddebian> :-)
[03:20] <ajmitch> having to copy python-xml source package, renaming it to python2.3-xml
[03:20] <ajmitch> stripping out most of the binary packages
[03:20] <ajmitch> just so that zope2.x is installable
[03:21] <ajmitch> essentially doing a cut-down fork
[03:21] <LaserJock> hmm
[03:21] <ajmitch> that's what doko suggested I do :)
[03:22] <ajmitch> since python2.3 is fully in universe now
[03:28] <ajmitch> argh, I have to do the same mess for python2.3-docutils & python2.3-imaging as well
[03:28] <ajmitch> what a mess
[03:28] <crimsun> ouch
[03:29] <ajmitch> zope & plone are fairly popular, we want them to be installable :)
[04:20] <ajmitch> hi robitaille
[04:21] <robitaille> Hi ajmitch
[04:26] <LaserJock> hi tritium
[04:27] <tritium> hi LaserJock
[05:01] <Kyral> Guys I have a package name question
[05:02] <LaserJock> Kyral: shoot
[05:02] <Kyral> Yanno those "KDE Service Menus"?
[05:02] <Kyral> at KDE-Apps?
[05:03] <Kyral> They are just little scripts for Konqueror or Kommander
[05:03] <Kyral> I wanna package a bunch of them, but I don't know what name prefix to use
[05:07] <LaserJock> hmm, I'm terrible with names
[05:08] <Kyral> "kde-servicemenu-foo"?
[05:09] <LaserJock> sure, why not ;-)
[05:33] <andrewski> new packages from debian are automatically ported over to ubuntu eventually, right?  in other words, no "inclusion request" is necessary?
[05:33] <crimsun> when we're not in UVF/FF, yes
[05:33] <andrewski> well, of course. :)
[05:33] <andrewski> greets crimsun; still maintaining xubuntu?
[05:34] <crimsun> no, that has always been jani's work, I've just helped out here and there
[05:34] <Kyral> wait...huh
[05:34] <Kyral> oh damn I need to file ANOTHER UVF for GTKEdit
[05:34] <crimsun> you love it, man.
[05:37] <andrewski> thanks, crimsun.  night all!  (maybe i'll squash a few more bugs before i head to bed... hmm.)
[05:38] <dolson> Kyral: that guy is a retard..
[05:39] <LaserJock> dolson: ?
[05:39] <dolson> LaserJock: arnieboy..
[05:39] <dolson> he's insulting everyone he can, including Seveas and Kyral and others..
[05:41] <LaserJock> what else is new? :/
[05:41] <Kyral> Death threats
[05:42] <LaserJock> are you getting into it again?
[05:44] <dolson> a bit
[05:47] <CarlFK> can someone give me a URL for how to make a .deb ?
[05:47] <LaserJock> CarlFK: wow, that is a can of worms you're opening there ;-)
[05:47] <Kyral> uuh thats the URL for the New Maintainers Guide...
[05:48] <Kyral> s/thats/what is
[05:48] <CarlFK> well, plan B: how do I get http://packages.ubuntu.com/dapper/comm/yate upgraded to a more recent version ?
[05:48] <LaserJock> CarlFK: ok, just a sec
[05:49] <LaserJock> CarlFK: new Debian version of upstream version?
[05:49] <LaserJock> CarlFK: wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuPackagingGuide/Resources has some good links
[05:49] <CarlFK> no clue.  my plane was just to make it myself
[05:49] <CarlFK> thanks
[05:49] <LaserJock> CarlFK: www.debian.org/devel/ has a link to the Debian New Maintainers Guide, among others
[05:50] <CarlFK> I did send out a "who/what is maintaing this to both the yate and pkg-voip-maintainers@lists.alioth.debian.org
[05:50] <CarlFK> thanks
[05:52] <CarlFK> ok, thats a lot of links
[05:52] <nictuku> there's also https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingTips
[05:52] <CarlFK> ok, thats a lot of links +1 ;)
[05:52] <LaserJock> CarlFK: I'm also working on an Ubuntu Packaging Guide
[05:53] <LaserJock> CarlFK: you can find rough (alpha) draft at doc.ubuntu.com
[05:54] <CarlFK> http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html ?
[05:54] <LaserJock> yeah
[05:57] <CarlFK> "Type conventions ... File names or paths to directories will be shown in monospace.... Options that you click, select, or choose in a user 						interface will be shown in monospace type."
[05:57] <CarlFK> is 2 mono's like that OK?
[05:59] <LaserJock> CarlFK: I'm going to assume so. A lot of things end up in monospace
[05:59] <LaserJock> CarlFK: you have,  italics, bold, and monospace ;-)
[06:00] <CarlFK> seemed odd.. just checking
[06:01] <LaserJock> np
[06:01] <LaserJock> I gotta get going, cya everybody!
[06:05] <CarlFK> arg
[06:10] <dolson> night, Kyral
[06:25] <CarlFK> do I need to setup my own repository in order to build a .deb?
[06:26] <CarlFK> i'm trying to figure out how much of http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/packaging-pbuilder.html I really need to do
[06:44] <Lathiat> no
[06:44] <Lathiat> you can point pbuilder at an external repoistory
[06:44] <Lathiat> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto has the generals
[06:44] <CarlFK> thanks
[06:45] <CarlFK> so if all I want to do is take a source tarball and make a .deb, PbuilderHowto is what I need?
[06:46] <CarlFK>  <-- "anyone interested in building packages using Ubuntu."
[06:46] <CarlFK> "The following assume you want to install breezy." - should that be "... install on breezy" ?
[06:47] <Lathiat> just s/breezy/dapper
[06:47] <Lathiat> and youl be fine
[06:47] <CarlFK> i get that part.  "want to install breezy." seems like installing the whole thing
[06:48] <CarlFK> which I don't think it what was meant
[06:48] <Lathiat> install a breezy pbuilder
[06:48] <Lathiat> makes sense in context
[06:48] <Lathiat> :)
[06:49] <CarlFK> you might want to do something to make that clear to people that... um.. me.
[06:50] <CarlFK> or give me a line - I am logged in
[07:10] <carl_fk> how much disk is needed for this step? sudo pbuilder create --distribution breezy
[07:11] <Erlang> carl_fk: my dapper.tgz takes up 75M once compressed.  Its probably needs quite a bit more to build thought.
[07:11] <Erlang> though
[07:18] <carl_fk> I gues it wont' be any bigger than the base install
[07:23] <zakame> hi all
[07:25] <Mez> carl_fk, the creation just pulls all the essential packages
[07:28] <Rotund> hello.  I was wondering if there was a reason for there not being a package for Dogtail in universe (other than no one has made one yet)
[07:31] <carl_fk> how do I build a src package?
[07:31] <Mez> carl_fk, debuild -S -sa
[07:32] <Mez> Rotund, we're nearing the final stages of things - we need to do a lot of work - we dont really have tht much time for making new packages, and I personally have never heard of dogtail ;)
[07:32] <Rotund> it's for automated testing of GTK programs
[07:32] <Mez> If it was in debian - then that might be a different matter - but it's not - and making ubuntu-specific packages from scratch is very very very very time-consuming
[07:33] <Rotund> RedHat made it.  It was fairly big on planet.gnome.org
[07:33] <Mez> Rotund, why don't you package it up?
[07:33] <Rotund> Okay.  Just making sure there wasn't some overtelling reason
[07:33] <Mez> Rotund, not that I know of
[07:33] <Rotund> I know I had wanted it for Breezy, but it was pretty late when it got stable
[07:33] <ajmitch> the reason is generally lack of time
[07:33] <Mez> unless theres some restrictive licence or something
[07:34] <Rotund> nope.  there's not.  It's Python and some OSI license
[07:34] <Mez> as ajmitch said - lack of time :D
[07:34] <Rotund> cool.  thanks.
[07:34] <ajmitch> reminds me, I should get back to pqm packaging
[07:34] <ajmitch> now that I've got my system back up & running
[07:34] <Mez> Rotund, if you're that eager to get it into ubuntu - why not package it yourself? I'm sure some people would be happy to review/sponsor
[07:35] <Mez> ajmitch, cool - I've been wanting to have a look at pqm for a while
[07:35] <Rotund> what is PQM?
[07:36] <Mez> Rotund, do you know about Bazaar?
[07:36] <Rotund> yup
[07:36] <Rotund> is it a front-end for it?
[07:37] <Mez> pqm = a pogram that reads emails and then merges stuff depending on the instructions in the email
[07:37] <Rotund> oh wow.  That's cool.  Is it linked in with Meld?  That would just blow my mind then.
[07:37] <Mez> basically - with a central line bazaar repo thingy- instead of one person doing all the merging - anyone (with sufficient rights) can email pqm to just merge stuff in etc
[07:39] <Rotund> so you can graphically look at what the patch changes automagically?
[07:39] <carl_fk> I am still lost.  if all I have is source, how do I make a .deb?
[07:39] <ajmitch> Rotund: pqm is more to automate merges, rather than looking at things
[07:40] <carl_fk> hoping for an answer in the form a a URL ;)
[07:40] <ajmitch> carl_fk: seen the debian new maintainer's guide? :)
[07:40] <Rotund> ahhh.  Okay.  I was thinking that it would be an amazing tool for someone like Linus who gets a bunch of patches submitted to him.
[07:41] <carl_fk> ajmitch, yes, but that includes seting up a repo, which I was then told I don't need to do
[07:41] <ajmitch> carl_fk: it didn't last time I looked at it
[07:47] <carl_fk> ajmitch, ok, not setting up a repo, but createing a deb sutible for being included in an official repository
[07:49] <ajmitch> carl_fk: right, 2 different things entirely :)
[07:50] <carl_fk> neither of which I am trying to do
[07:50] <carl_fk> I might later (i hope) but for now I just want to make a .deb for personal use
[07:51] <ajmitch> making a deb for personal use is going to be basically the same as making it to get into ubuntu
[07:52] <ajmitch> since you still have to have the standard packaging - debian/{rules,changelog,control,copyright}
[08:13] <carl_fk> more on this in the morning
[08:13] <carl_fk> thanks ajmitch and all
[08:15] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: so you're not going to recommend the horrible hack? :P
[08:16] <ajmitch> Hobbsee: hell no :P
[08:16] <Hobbsee> LOL!
[08:17] <ajmitch> I could not trust a package made with 'that thing' on my system
[08:17] <G0SUB> which `thing' ?
[08:17] <ajmitch> the unspeakable word
[08:17] <ajmitch> Hobbsee: btw HI! :)
[08:17] <G0SUB> windows?
[08:18] <Hobbsee> oh, and hey ajmitch :)  i had words with my tech shop today, and should get my battery that i ordered back in early feb, on friday :D
[08:18] <Hobbsee> G0SUB: no, something far more evil
[08:18] <G0SUB> Hobbsee: umm! more evil than windows?
[08:18] <ajmitch> yes
[08:18] <Hobbsee> yes
[08:18] <ajmitch> let us not speak of it
[08:19] <G0SUB> tell me!!
[08:19] <Hobbsee> possibly worse than automatix, though
[08:19] <ajmitch> Hobbsee: that's a tough one
[08:20] <Hobbsee> indeed
[08:21] <ajmitch> we'll see what read/write performance is really like on these drives
[08:24] <Hobbsee> ah ha!  a few extra packages installed let them work fine :D
[09:10] <Toadstool> hi everybody
[09:10] <dolson> hi Toadstool
[09:21] <siretart> morning
[09:22] <siretart> puh, 50+mails in inbox.. and this since yesterday afternoon
[09:34] <spacey> siretart: your so popular :)
[09:34] <siretart> spacey: most of them are malone bugs
[09:34] <siretart> about UVF exception requests and stuff
[09:38] <spacey> :P
[09:38] <verwilst> yoyo
[09:41] <verwilst> jaj!
[09:42] <verwilst> pure-ftpd is confirmed
[09:42] <verwilst> *cheers*
[09:44] <verwilst> if pure-ftpd debs were in incoming.debian.org yesterday
[09:44] <verwilst> and now it's gone
[09:44] <verwilst> but mips/hppa/.. build of it are there now
[09:44] <verwilst> i'm guessing it's been sent to the compilation-server or something for inclusion into debian itself?
[09:51] <siretart> verwilst: well, they have been installed to the debian archive
[09:52] <verwilst> but not yet on packages.debian.org
[09:52] <verwilst> it still lists .19 there
[09:52] <siretart> verwilst: dinstall in debian runs at 2000 or 2100 UTC, cleaning up the incoming queue
[09:52] <siretart> verwilst: look in http://ftp.debian.org/
[09:52] <siretart> packages.debian.org is not updated that fast
[09:53] <verwilst> aah yes, it's there :d
[09:53] <verwilst> sweet
[09:55] <verwilst> it was really necessary :)
[09:55] <lifeless> ajmitch: can you try something for me ?
[09:58] <siretart> verwilst: well, then go on and upload it :)
[09:58] <verwilst> upload it?
[09:59] <verwilst> oh? do i need to do that?
[10:04] <verwilst> siretart, whereto?
[10:05] <siretart> verwilst: ah, so you aren't a motu yet, but already requesting UVF freeze exceptions?
[10:06] <verwilst> euh
[10:06] <verwilst> yes?
[10:06] <verwilst> :p
[10:06] <verwilst> didn't know i had to be a motu :d
[10:08] <siretart> well, you need to test and prepare an upload anyway, so I assumed that requesters are somehow familiar with our procedures
[10:08] <verwilst> well
[10:08] <verwilst> daniel holbach showed me some URL's
[10:09] <verwilst> and i packaged the deb
[10:09] <verwilst> and sent the diff's and changelogs and such
[10:09] <verwilst> but i also mailed to the debian maintainer
[10:09] <verwilst> and when my packages were done, he said he just committed his to debian
[10:09] <verwilst> so i took his packages from incoming.debian.org
[10:09] <verwilst> and redid my diffs
[10:09] <verwilst> and added those
[10:10] <verwilst> and euh.. that's about all :)
[10:11] <siretart> verwilst: ok, then you just need somone to sponsor your upload
[10:11] <siretart> verwilst: repeat this several time and you will be granted upload priviledges
[10:12] <verwilst> sweet :)
[10:12] <doko> ajmitch, ajmitch_: did you prepare 2.3 packages for python-mxtools?
[10:59] <kelmo_lap> hi
[11:09] <G0SUB> dholbach: hello!
[11:10] <dholbach> hello
[11:17] <G0SUB> dholbach: can you tell me what this map signifies? http://freeshell.in/~ghoseb/map.png
[11:18] <dholbach> everybody in the ubuntu landscape can add himself/herself to wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWorldWide
[11:19] <G0SUB> hmm
[11:20] <verwilst> hello dholbach
[11:20] <dholbach> hey verwilst
[11:27] <siretart> hey kelmo_lap
[11:27] <siretart> hi dholbach
[11:28] <kelmo_lap> hi siretart
[11:28] <dholbach> hey siretart
[11:35] <siretart> kelmo_lap: oh, I see you already imported current wpasupplicant's current experimental branch. thanks :)
[11:36] <kelmo_lap> yes, and i have many more (experimental) updates to come
[11:36] <kelmo_lap> well, a few, not so many ; )
[11:37] <siretart> ok. I will focus on bugfixing the 'stable' branch then
[11:38] <kelmo_lap> ok, i hope its okay for me to "go to town" on this package like i have?
[11:39] <kelmo_lap> at least, in the experimental branch
[11:40] <siretart> err, I don't understand the 'go to town' part, sorry
[11:42] <kelmo_lap> i hope its okay that i am making massive changes to the way wpasupplicant is used, if the experimental packaging is used in the future
[11:42] <kelmo_lap> go to town => massive changes ; )
[11:42] <siretart> ah, I see
[11:42] <kelmo_lap> but, as long as that init script is there, people should get along okay
[11:42] <siretart> well, thats whats experimental is for, so, of course! :)
[11:43] <kelmo_lap> anyway, i've had a good chat to brix, from gentoo, and he has inspired some more change
[11:43] <siretart> cool
[11:44] <kelmo_lap> based on their networking "baselayout" and their general packaging
[11:44] <siretart> perhaps you could forward the irclog to pkg-wpa-devel?
[11:44] <kelmo_lap> well, i basiclly asked him a few questions, and its probably best that i document the reasons for some pending changes in a small announcement?
[11:45] <siretart> I agree
[11:45] <kelmo_lap> i'll generate some more discussion once i am exhausted all ideas i currently have
[11:45] <kelmo_lap> s/am/have
[11:46] <siretart> okay. I'm looking forward reading them :)
[11:46] <kelmo_lap> okay, i'm not looking so forward to writing them (takes me a long time for some reason)
[11:46] <siretart> I see
[11:47] <seaLne> has anyone experience is packaging a ruby lib?
[11:48] <verwilst> i think i'll look into joomla too someday :)
[11:48] <verwilst> to package it
[11:50] <siretart> verwilst: there are already packages for it in debian/experimental
[11:50] <siretart> verwilst: perhaps you should look at them first
[11:55] <kelmo_lap> siretart, btw, if we can do another upload of wpasupplicant to experimental soon it would be good, the last upload contained a bad typo in the init script, i'll let you know how i get on tonight
[12:07] <ajmitch> doko: haven't done python-mxtools yet, just python-xml, python-imaging, python-docutils
[12:07] <siretart> kelmo_lap: I'm not a DD either, I have to bug my sponsor every time
[12:07] <siretart> kelmo_lap: so if you want to do another upload to experimental, feel free to do :)
[12:07] <siretart> ok, I'm off for now. CU
[12:08] <ajmitch> bye siretart :)
[12:08] <kelmo_lap> seeya
[12:10] <ajmitch> lifeless: what did you want me to do earlier? :)
[12:15] <lifeless> ajmitch: apt-get source pornview
[12:16] <lifeless> ajmitch: comment out the NLS startup at the top of src/main.c
[12:16] <lifeless> DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS=nostrip debuild -us -uc -nc
[12:17] <lifeless> apt-get install pornview to get the runtime deps
[12:17] <lifeless> and then run src/pornview
[12:17] <lifeless> I had some interesting results.
[12:20] <ajmitch> like a segfault?
[12:48] <dholbach> hey guys... I just wanted to let you know, that we're going to have the first BugSquad meeting on Monday - I'd highly appreciate it, if you could come, so we can try to organize the next weeks until release bug-wise
[12:49] <dholbach> if you have something to add to http://wiki.ubuntu.com/BugSquad and the linked pages, I'd appreciate that too (so I can get out the announce ASAP)
[12:51] <ajmitch> ok
[01:01] <_Dan_> Hi. where'd one go for questions about translating using Launchpad ?
[01:03] <ajmitch> #launchpad
[01:03] <ajmitch> maybe :)
[01:06] <_Dan_> ajmitch: Oh yeah hehe, thanks.
[01:31] <verwilst> euh
[01:31] <verwilst> that's the package i wsa talking about
[01:31] <verwilst> siretart,
[01:31] <verwilst> i was creating my own
[01:31] <verwilst> but at the same time i mailed the debian maintainer
[01:32] <verwilst> and he said he would upload his .21 packages right away
[01:32] <verwilst> so i threw mine away
[01:32] <verwilst> and used his to make the changelog and diffstat
[01:42] <Lathiat> #malone i think actually
[01:43] <ajmitch> Lathiat: ?
[01:51] <doko> hmm, who is Andrew Conkling?
[01:52] <ajmitch> doko: what does python-mxtools need updated for?
[01:55] <doko> ajmitch: python2.3-psycopg
[01:55] <ajmitch> ok
[01:56] <ajmitch> ah, that's why I didn't see it, binary package is the mxdatetime one :)
[01:56] <ajmitch> I'll get onto it tomorrow
[01:56] <ajmitch> do you want me to change maintainer of these forked python2.3-* packages? :)
[02:27] <armin76> hey
[03:15] <bddebian> Heya gang
[03:17] <verwilst> yo
[03:17] <G0SUB> bddebian
[03:18] <bddebian> Hello verwilst, G0SUB
[03:21] <zakame> hi all
[03:21] <bddebian> Heya zakame
[03:21] <zakame> hello bddebian what's up?
[03:21] <bddebian> Not much, you?
[03:22] <zakame> learning a great deal about C and Perl :)
[03:22] <bddebian> Nice
[03:22] <bddebian> I think I am unteachable :-)
[03:24] <zakame> hmm because there's nothing more to teach you about? =)
[03:25] <bddebian> zakame: I wish.  More because I'm an idiot :-(
[03:26] <zakame> awww :(
[03:44] <Yagisan> G'day motu's. Anyone have some links to tutorials on the different package patch systems eg dpatch, cdbs etc ?
[03:47] <verwilst> hm, can i reopen a bug?
[03:50] <Amaranth> verwilst: what bug?
[03:51] <verwilst> 29571
[03:55] <zakame> Yagisan: duckcorp's?
[03:58] <Yagisan> zakame: thank you. That covers cdbs. I'm trying to get a feel for the different patch systems.
[03:58] <Yagisan> zakame: any personal favorites ?
[03:58] <Mithrandir> Yagisan: they all suck.  Use a proper revision control system.  IMO.
[04:01] <Yagisan> Mithrandir: they goal of my exercise is to become familiar with what is used in packages, so I can be more useful/helpful in fixing bugs etc, on my long road to being a motu.
[04:08] <zakame> Yagisan: not much :( dpatch is also quite straightforward...
[04:10] <seaLne> pretty please could people comment/advocate if nothing is wrong http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2160 so the bug in dapper can be closed?
[06:21] <ILIJA> hi tehere
[07:53] <twinoatl> hi all
[07:53] <twinoatl> it seems dapper need tests for Squeak
[07:54] <twinoatl> there was a call for testers
[07:54] <LaserJock> Dapper always needs testers ;-)
[07:55] <twinoatl> how can I help testing Squeak ?
[07:55] <twinoatl> Do you know Bryce Kampjes
[07:56] <LaserJock> hmm, I'm not familiar with the name. Probably would be more familiar with an irc nick
[07:57] <LaserJock> but in general I'd say use it and check out https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReportingBugs
[07:57] <twinoatl> I just have the name
[07:57] <twinoatl> I can't find any packages of squeak-vm for dapper
[07:58] <Erlang> isn't Squeak supposed to be non-redistributable?
[07:58] <LaserJock> twinoatl: it is in multiverse
[07:58] <twinoatl> for amd64
[07:58] <Erlang> oh multiverse then...
[08:00] <twinoatl> I can't find anything when apt-cache search
[08:01] <twinoatl> I configured multiverse and universe
[08:01] <twinoatl> deb http://fr.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ dapper universe multiverse
[08:01] <twinoatl> deb http://fr.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ dapper-backports main restricted universe multiverse
[08:01] <twinoatl> a search on squeak only returns squeak-sources and not squeak-vm
[08:02] <LaserJock> hmm, could be it isn't building, let me check
[08:02] <twinoatl> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/breezy/+source/squeak-vm
[08:02] <twinoatl> https://launchpad.net/+builds/+build/166765
[08:03] <LaserJock> twinoatl: looks like it only built on i386
[08:03] <twinoatl> it seams
[08:03] <twinoatl> But squeak-vm should work on amd64
[08:04] <twinoatl> I need to verify
[08:05] <twinoatl> I'm trying to build the .orig
[08:06] <twinoatl> I would like to switch to ubuntu amd64 when dapper will be released. Are there still problems with codecs or things like this ?
[08:07] <LaserJock> twinoatl: I'm really not sure. I know that quite a few people do use Dapper on amd64, but I don't know specifically if codecs are a problem still.
[08:08] <twinoatl> LaserJock, thanks
[08:08] <Erlang> I don't have any problems personally.
[08:10] <LaserJock> hi minghua
[08:10] <minghua> hello all
[08:10] <twinoatl> Erlang, do you read dvds ? do you play flash ? do you watch wmv movies ?
[08:10] <LaserJock> hi G0SUB
[08:10] <G0SUB> minghua: hello!
[08:10] <twinoatl> minghua, hi
[08:10] <G0SUB> LaserJock
[08:11] <G0SUB> minghua: we need to talk
[08:11] <minghua> G0SUB: yes?
[08:11] <Erlang> twinoatl: no no and yes sometimes ;D
[08:12] <Erlang> twinoatl:the official Flash plugin isn't available on AMD64 and that isn't Ubuntu's fault.
[08:12] <G0SUB> minghua: it's about that bug I filed regarding assigning U+09CE a separate key in scim-tables-additional
[08:12] <Erlang> twinoatl: and WMV9 still don't play, but that must be the case on i386 too.
[08:12] <Erlang> twinoatl: for DVD, I can't say.  I don't own one.
[08:12] <twinoatl> Erlang, I know this is not an ubuntu problem
[08:12] <twinoatl> Erlang, thanks
[08:13] <Erlang> I can play flash things with a 32 bit Dapper chroot.
[08:13] <G0SUB> minghua: bug 35093
[08:13] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 35093 in scim-tables scim-tables-additional "SCIM should have a separate key for Bengali khanda-ta (U+09CE)" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/35093
[08:16] <twinoatl> Erlang, it's a bit tricky
[08:16] <twinoatl> :-)
[08:16] <minghua> G0SUB: yes I remember that bug, what do you want to talk about?
[08:16] <Erlang> twinoatl: slightly
[08:17] <Erlang> twinoatl: but once it is done, it'll work.
[08:17] <G0SUB> minghua: we have decided on the key to be assigned
[08:17] <twinoatl> Erlang, ok, thanks
[08:17] <twinoatl> I must leave you know
[08:17] <twinoatl> bye
[08:17] <twinoatl> s/know/now :-)
[08:17] <G0SUB> minghua: now can you make the changes yourself or do you require a patch?
[08:21] <minghua> G0SUB: I can make changes myself (a patch won't hurt for sure), but you need to say which key you've decided to bind that character to
[08:21] <G0SUB> minghua: Shift+8
[08:21] <G0SUB> minghua: that's for the Bengali (Probhat) keymap
[08:21] <minghua> G0SUB: it's actually easier to just put all the information in the bug report
[08:21] <G0SUB> minghua: yes, I will ... I just wanted to hear from you first
[08:24] <minghua> G0SUB: in the Bengali-probhat table all keys are specified by a character, like !@#$, I am not sure how to bind shift-8
[08:25] <G0SUB> minghua: I will tell you ... in a sec
[08:26] <G0SUB> minghua: key <AE08> { [ 0x10009EE, 0x10009CE    ]  };
[08:26] <G0SUB> minghua: that's taken from the xkb keymap
[08:26] <minghua> Hmm, I still don't know how to translate that into scim format
[08:27] <minghua> G0SUB: please post all these information to the bug report, and I'll ask scim upstream
[08:27] <G0SUB> minghua: okay, then I will attach a patch ... :)
[08:28] <minghua> G0SUB: yeah, then that will be good, and you don't really need me (as I can't upload to main anyway)
[08:28] <G0SUB> minghua: still,  thought of talking to you first ...
[08:30] <minghua> G0SUB: sure, I appreciate that.  I don't have enough knowledge to give any good advice, though.  sorry.
[08:30] <G0SUB> minghua: haha, don't kid me :)
[08:38] <dolson> arghhh
[08:39] <dolson> it happened AGAIN
[08:39] <dolson> this time, in the middle of me using the system
[08:39] <LaserJock> ugghh
[08:40] <G0SUB> dolson: what happened?
[08:41] <dolson> my system got entirely slow, and unresponsive.. I couldn't do anything. although this time, since I was using it, I guess I caught it early enough because I could switch to a virtual terminal and get ps aux output to a file.. but after that, I couldn't do anything. I tried the magic SysRq key, and it seemed to be working for K, S, and U, but when I did the B, it didn't reboot. I had to power off
[08:42] <G0SUB> dolson: Beagle?
[08:42] <dolson> I uninstalled it
[08:42] <dolson> I'm thinking it's a cron job..
[08:42] <G0SUB> dolson: cron job to do what?
[08:43] <LaserJock> dolson: how is your RAM?
[08:43] <G0SUB> dolson: if it's the old beagle 0.2.1 in dapper, then that's it
[08:43] <dolson> dpkg-scanpackages
[08:43] <dolson> LaserJock: 1GB
[08:43] <dolson> what is the "wa" in this line from top? Cpu(s):  4.0% us,  0.7% sy,  0.0% ni, 94.7% id,  0.3% wa,  0.0% hi,  0.3% si
[08:43] <G0SUB> dolson: I am almost sure it's the old beagle if you have it
[08:43] <dolson> G0SUB: I uninstalled it
[08:43] <dolson> yesterday
[08:43] <G0SUB> dolson: oh, good
[08:44] <Seveas> G0SUB, would you mind a private message?
[08:44] <LaserJock> dolson: I mean how much RAM are you using? I had a mem leak not long ago that would cripple the system after a few days
[08:44] <G0SUB> LaserJock: the beagle leak can eat up 1 Gig in less than 1 minute
[08:45] <LaserJock> G0SUB: right, but he doesn't have beagle so...
[08:45] <dolson> LaserJock: I don't know how to check that now... I didn't think. at this time, I've got 635M free though. but I didn't think to check before I rebooted it
[08:45] <Erlang> I've had a similar problem but I don't use Beagle.
[08:45] <dolson> well, I tried stuff, but it wasn't responding
[08:45] <dolson> LaserJock: do you know what "wa" means in the top CPU line?
[08:45] <dolson> because it was at like 88-92%
[08:46] <LaserJock> I'm not sure
[08:46] <LaserJock> my problem was that my memory would get all used up and then I'd do something in Firefox (usually try to add a bookmark) and everything would come to a screeching halt
[08:46] <dolson> here's the output from ps aux: http://aslan.homelinux.com/dana/tmp/processlist
[08:46] <LaserJock> I mad a cron job to check the memory every 30 min.
[08:47] <dholbach> wa = waiting
[08:47] <LaserJock> and it looked like some cron.daily thing was bumping my memory usage every morning
[08:47] <dholbach> that's usually IO
[08:48] <dolson> thanks dholbach.. I think it was my cron job for sure then.. looking at the processlist, I see a md5sum and such from the dpkgs-scanpackages job
[08:48] <dholbach> is that some debsums stuff?
[08:49] <dolson> I think so.. I was using it for having a local repo (/var/cache/pbuildier/result)
[09:23] <dolson> I think I'm going to learn Perl.
[09:23] <LaserJock> I'm avoiding it
[09:23] <dolson> heh, why's that?
[09:23] <ajmitch> morning
[09:24] <dolson> morning ajmitch
[09:24] <Erlang> dolson: Perl => Crazy
[09:24] <ajmitch> because perl is evil & wrong
[09:24] <LaserJock> dolson: because it seems a bit difficult to learn. I'm not a CS guy so I need something easy ;-)
[09:25] <dolson> well I applied for a job here that is for a perl developer... and had the interview, and it seemed to go alright. they asked for samples of my code in C/C++ and PHP and they asked for my references. I may as well get a head start, in case they choose me.
[09:25] <LaserJock> I know a little Fortran and Python and that is about it
[09:26] <Amaranth> fortran?
[09:26] <Amaranth> you like abuse, then?
[09:26] <LaserJock> no, it is pretty easy for most of the stuff I do
[09:27] <LaserJock> but I'm trying to get my lab moved over the Python :-)
[09:27] <minghua> fortran is good for what it's designed for.  number crunching, that is.
[09:28] <LaserJock> minghua: yeah, that is what I use it for. We have one data acquisition program that is written in C that I'd love to move to Python
[09:28] <LaserJock> but I'm not sure I'm going to be able to do it.
[09:29] <minghua> LaserJock: I think that's a good idea
[09:29] <LaserJock> the problem is that my advisor is the only one that knows C so I have to try to hack his stuff to adjust anything
[09:30] <LaserJock> and none of our grad students have any programming experience
[09:30] <LaserJock> so I think Python would be easier to do than C
[09:30] <LaserJock> but that means I've got to convince my advisor that Python is OK :(
[09:32] <dolson> I wanna learn Python too
[09:34] <dolson> for some reason, I think it's likely the easiest to do GTK stuff in.. would that be a reasonable belief?
[09:34] <LaserJock> I find Python to be quite cool from a scientists perspective
[09:34] <dolson> I mean, I prefer Delphi in the Windows world, but Lazarus just doesn't work well for me in Linux
[09:35] <crimsun> fortran is completely ugly from a programmer's perspective but brilliant from a mathematician's
[09:36] <crimsun> hmm, perhaps s/mathematician/engineer/
[09:36] <bddebian> dolson: Have you tried Kylix? :)
[09:36] <dolson> a long time ago
[09:37] <crimsun> dolson: easy is only relevant for your current mindset
[09:37] <dolson> I couldn't redistribute my apps with it, when I tried it... at least I couldn't find out how to make it work
[09:37] <crimsun> some people will find gtkmm or gtk# easier
[09:37] <bddebian> Nothing is "easy" for me :-(
[09:37] <hub> bddebian: isn't kylix a dead produc?
[09:37] <bddebian> Any of you screwed around with libgc at all?
[09:37] <bddebian> hub: Might be, dunno
[09:37] <dolson> lazarus is open source at least
[09:37] <ajmitch> bddebian: noone has any reason to touch libgc
[09:38] <dolson> crimsun: well, I'm thinking for speedy development purposes. I miss the clicky clicky app creation for my own purposes that I was able to do in Windows. but the good thing is that chances are there is a util out there in Linux already that does what I need. so it isn't that relevant,really
[09:41] <jtshaw> you tried qt Dolson?
[09:41] <jtshaw> it has tools for "clicky clicky" app creation
[09:42] <hub> jtshaw: yes and no
[09:42] <Amaranth> jtshaw: for making the UI, sure
[09:42] <Amaranth> jtshaw: it doesn't write code for you
[09:43] <jtshaw> true...
[09:43] <jtshaw> I guess I was unaware you could create an entire app in any of the Visual Studio tools without writing a line of code
[09:44] <LaserJock> what would a good entry point for creating a GUI for a python program (pretty simple)? I've seen wxpython and pygtk.
[09:44] <crimsun> pyglade?
[09:44] <LaserJock> there is a pyglade?
[09:45] <crimsun> there's even python-wxglade if you're really masochistic
[09:45] <crimsun> yeah, python2.4-glade2 is installed
[09:46] <LaserJock> crimsun: cool, thanks
[09:46] <crimsun> np
[09:46] <LaserJock> now I just need to get an Ubuntu box to do it on :/
[09:46] <crimsun> Kyral: btw, your mkv issues are known; I've adjust the report to track bts, too
[09:47] <Kyral> crimsun: ty
[09:47] <crimsun> adjusted^
[09:47] <dolson> jtshaw: I try to avoid Qt as much as possible
[09:48] <dolson> hmm, Perl, or Soul Calibur II? ... tough decision.
[09:48] <jtshaw> dolson: I can understand that.. I think some of there ideas are great (Signals and Slots) for example... but it certainly has it's negatives too
[09:49] <dolson> jtshaw: I don't know any of the underlying structure of GTK or Qt yet, I just do not like the look and feel of Qt. it's just a preference
[09:52] <TheMuso> dolson: I'd say that if you would want to start building an app that also had some accessibility by default, you would use GTK. :)
[10:03] <minghua> LaserJock: maybe you can try GTK+/Mac on your iMac ;-)
[10:05] <LaserJock> minghua: I'm trying to install glade2 through fink at the moment
[10:07] <minghua> LaserJock: let me check which version of gtk is ported to Mac...
[10:08] <minghua> Hmm, it seems that the OS X port is still CVS only
[10:08] <minghua> LaserJock: I am pretty sure the GTK+ in fink would be X11 only, then
[10:09] <minghua> LaserJock: http://developer.imendio.com/wiki/Gtk_Mac_OS_X  # (if you don't know which OS X port I am talking about)
[10:09] <LaserJock> minghua: yeah, I'd like to be able to code on the iMac but "deploy" on an Debian/Ubuntu data acquisition box
[10:10] <minghua> LaserJock: in that case the X11 version of GTK+ should suffice, I suppose
[10:10] <LaserJock> I think so, I'll have to see.
[10:12] <minghua> I doubt all those bindings work okay in fink, though.  I've had serious problems with perl-gtk in fink.
[10:12] <LaserJock> right now I'm just trying to see what I can get with fink. the whole Intel thing is really messing with gcc and python in OSX
[10:14] <LaserJock> if mjg59 gets done soon with the EFI work I think Ubuntu has a pretty good chance of working better than OSX for a lot of things
[10:15] <minghua> I hate to suggest this, but Qt 4 works much better on OS X than GTK+
[10:16] <minghua> Qt doesn't seem to have a (stable) python binding though
[10:18] <LaserJock> well, I'll see what I can do. If I can rewrite this data acquisition program before I graduate I'll be happy
[10:18] <LaserJock> right now it is curses+pgplot
[10:18] <Amaranth> minghua: qt4's python binding is currently a joke
[10:18] <Amaranth> minghua: i spent a week teaching it about OS X (in a hackish way)
[10:20] <minghua> Amaranth: good to know.  I only heard about such a binding, never tried myself
[10:20] <Amaranth> sip and pyqt4 need much love to be usable
[10:21] <LaserJock> can you do ncurses with python ?
[10:28] <dholbach> night guys
[10:31] <dolson> cya dholbach
[10:31] <dholbach> bonne nuit, dolson
[10:32] <dolson> what is that
[10:32] <dolson> is that a band?
[10:32] <dolson> I like Pat Benatar!
[10:32] <dolson> not really
[10:32] <dholbach> good night in french :)
[10:55] <minghua> fedora core 5 ships libstdc++.so.7 now?  interesting.
[11:00] <hub> gcc 4.1
[11:01] <siretart> oh no. another c++ transition?!
[11:02] <jtshaw> hopefully this one will have a little better backwards compatibility... but somehow I doubt it
[11:02] <hub> siretart: not sure
[11:02] <hub> siretart: that does not mean ABI breakage
[11:03] <hub> siretart: as libstdc++6 could still be used :-)
[11:03] <siretart> hub: the gcc-snapshot in dapper, which is in effect a gcc-4.1 ships with soname libstdc++.so.6
[11:03] <hub> siretart: mmm
[11:05] <minghua> I _think_ gcc4.1 still have libstdc++.so.6
[11:05] <minghua> at least that's the default
[11:08] <minghua> I heard the libstdc++7 story here: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=166041
[11:08] <minghua> as it talks about "export CXX=libstdc++so7-g++ before configure and make", I assume that means libstdc++6 is still default
[11:17] <minghua> okay, libstdc++7 is indeed not default, but just "preview": http://fedora.redhat.com/docs/release-notes/fc5/#id3131599
[11:17] <minghua> so don't worry about transition (yet) :-)
[11:17] <siretart> minghua: this isn't a thing for gcc-4.1. the bugreport says that libstdc++_7 C++ ABI is highly experimental as it adds a new feature: weak symbol versioning
[11:18] <minghua> siretart: it's not me that said it's for gcc-4.1 ;-)
[11:18] <siretart> a very specific corner case which could be usful for scim. nothing we need to worry about. at least not now
[11:18] <siretart> 22:55:52 < minghua> fedora core 5 ships libstdc++.so.7 now?  interesting.
[11:18] <siretart> this would need another transition of ALL c++ apps
[11:18] <minghua> that's a fact
[11:19] <siretart> you scared me :)
[11:19] <minghua> fc5 ships both libstdc++6 and libstdc++7
[11:19] <siretart> never mind. gn8 folks!
[11:19] <siretart> :)
[11:19] <minghua> siretart: good night :-)  and sorry for scaring you :-P
[11:25] <ajmitch> morning
[11:25] <LaserJock> hi ajmitch