/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2006/03/28/#edubuntu.txt

flint	JaneW, I am not getting any of this great correspondence about the Cookbook. If the change presents itself. Please email me a copy. Thanks in advance!	12:06
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neurogeek	mhz, I told him that you were looking for him and that you needed a curriculum .. guess he is just doing that	12:14
mhz	ooh, I see, thx	12:15
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iGotNoTime	help LOL	01:36
iGotNoTime	I have like 10 apps running but nothing in the taskbar	01:37
iGotNoTime	what did I do?	01:37
Burgwork	maybe the taskbar got removed from your panel	01:39
Burgwork	add the "Windows list" back to your panel	01:39
mhz	neurogeek: any news?	01:45
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iGotNoTime	Thank you Burgwork that fixed it	02:11
iGotNoTime	sorry gnome is a new concept for me :P	02:11
Burgwork	iGotNoTime, no problem	02:12
iGotNoTime	next question and this one is really getting to me.... my laptop uses a touchpad but when I tap the surface of the touchpad itself it acts as a double click option. It is frustrating when my palm bumps it while typing. Can I disable this so called 'feature'?	02:20
iGotNoTime	I could with XP, but can not find any option in Edubuntu	02:20
Burgwork	sadly not easily	02:23
Burgwork	you need to edit a text file	02:24
iGotNoTime	hehe	02:31
iGotNoTime	any guess which one or where?	02:32
Burgwork	xorg.conf	02:32
Burgwork	/etc/X11/xorg.conf	02:32
iGotNoTime	you are fast :P	02:33
iGotNoTime	with SUDO?	02:33
Burgwork	check	02:33
iGotNoTime	well I see the mouse area for the touchpad but nothing indicating the feature, going to Google :P	02:36
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deang	Running Flight5. My screensaver keeps kicking on (while I'm actively using GAIM and Browser). Is this a known issue?	02:40
crimsun	yes	02:40
deang	thanks.	02:40
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grant	How would you guys say edubuntu compares to the fedora core 4 ltsp repackage?	03:48
grant	Anyone awake?	03:50
HedgeMage	I'm somewhat here	03:54
HedgeMage	I've not used FC, though, so I'm not much help on that question.	03:55
grant	You use edubuntu, I take it?	03:57
HedgeMage	I have it on one of my boxen :)	04:01
grant	did you get it working with thin clients?	04:09
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highvoltage	JaneW: http://gallery.debian.org.tw/albums/10th/DSCN3334.sized.jpg	07:04
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c7	hi zusammen (sorry spreche leider sehr schlecht englisch)	07:26
c7	kann mir jemand helfen, ltsp zu konfigurieren?	07:26
c7	booten funktioniert wunderbar	07:26
c7	und nen login screen krieg ich auch..	07:26
c7	bloss kann ich mich nicht anmelden..	07:27
highvoltage	c7: flight4 ?	07:27
c7	ubuntu flight5 installation	07:27
c7	+edubuntu pakete	07:28
highvoltage	c7: sudo ltsp-update-sshkeys	07:28
c7	ja hab ich schon versucht...	07:28
c7	ndert leider nichts daran	07:28
highvoltage	hmmm... shouldn't be necassary on flight 5, but i suggest you try that	07:28
c7	other suggestions?	07:29
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highvoltage	as far as i understand, you said that you get kicked off as soon as you log in? i had that problem with flight4, and ltsp-update-sshkeys fixed that for me, but i'm quite sure it's fixed with f5	07:30
highvoltage	i can't think of anything else though, i suggest you hang around and ask ogra when he wakes up	07:31
mhz	highvoltage: hi there	07:32
highvoltage	mhz: hi!	07:32
c7	it did try this.. yeah i thing think would be the best to ask him.. if i can stay awake ;)	07:33
highvoltage	:)	07:33
mhz	highvoltage: what is your "profesion", what have you studied (university or instute(	07:33
mhz	highvoltage: and what city you live in	07:34
highvoltage	mhz: i still have to study :/	07:34
highvoltage	mhz: Cape Town	07:34
mhz	highvoltage: where are you studing?	07:34
highvoltage	mhz: i'm not studying, really, not yet.	07:34
highvoltage	mhz: although i'm starting guitar lessons tonight, if that counts	07:35
mhz	lol	07:35
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mhz	have you studied?	07:35
mhz	anything ICT related	07:35
highvoltage	i did a linux+ course in 2003	07:35
highvoltage	that's about it :/	07:35
mhz	okis	07:35
mhz	so, you have studied something after school	07:36
highvoltage	i need to make some time to study, i thought about doing a psychology course...	07:36
highvoltage	nope, haven't attended formal education after high school	07:36
mhz	highvoltage: dont worry, it is just to provide a "table like" speakers info	07:36
mhz	and how old are you?	07:37
highvoltage	mhz: ok. i phoned yesterday to find out about the visa, they said i do need one	07:37
highvoltage	mhz: i'll apply for one next week	07:37
highvoltage	mhz: 24	07:37
mhz	cool	07:37
mhz	24? like the Fox series?	07:37
highvoltage	as in, a dyslexic 42 :)	07:38
mhz	lol	07:38
mhz	highvoltage: and remember to tell us an average of how much a ticket to chile is and how long it takes	07:50
highvoltage	mhz: ok	07:52
mhz	cool	07:53
mhz	oh, I've noticed we are having "operators" implemented. Good!	07:53
Burgundavia	mhz: hmm?	07:55
mhz	Burgundavia: oh, always here!?!	07:56
mhz	:D	07:56
mhz	and there	07:56
mhz	and everywhere	07:56
mphill	does edubuntu come with ltsp?	07:56
mhz	mphill: indeed	07:56
Burgundavia	mhz: I am on irc about 15 hours a day, between work and home	07:56
mhz	mphill: that is one of its main features	07:56
mphill	ltsp gets me hot and bothered	07:56
mhz	Burgundavia: oh, you are single? or your "couple" is a geek too?	07:57
Burgundavia	mhz: currently single	07:57
mphill	mhz: how does k12lstp compare with edubuntu	07:57
mhz	mphill: I have not tried k12ltsp yet	07:57
mphill	besides the debian/ubuntu and redhat base distro	07:57
mphill	i'm running k12ltsp now, it works ok	07:58
mhz	but the LTSP edubuntu has is way different than ordinary LTSP	07:58
mphill	how so?	07:58
mhz	mainly, edubuntu LTSP forwards X via ssh	07:58
mphill	interesting	07:58
mphill	does that require anything extra from thin clients using PXE? I assume not	07:59
mhz	actually, IIRC next LTSP release (for all distros) will include edubuntu modifications	07:59
mhz	nope	07:59
mphill	IIRC?	07:59
mhz	oh, sorry	07:59
mhz	If I remember Correctly :D	08:00
mphill	how long as the ltsp project been around?	08:00
mhz	no idea	08:00
mphill	me either	08:00
mphill	mhz: i gotta sleep	08:00
mphill	good night	08:00
mhz	oh, sleep well	08:00
mhz	Burgundavia: single has its advantages, indeed	08:01
c7	highvoltage: dumb question.. but do i have to create special users for ltsp? like in chroot /opt/ltsp/i386/	08:01
mhz	c7: you shouldn't touch /opt	08:01
mhz	unless you know what you are doing, of course	08:01
c7	mhz: like if i want to add some programms?	08:02
c7	mhz: thunderbir-enigmail etc?	08:02
mhz	c7: hmmm, edubuntu will let the client boot and use ALL resources available just like a normal system	08:02
mhz	so, all users in /etc/passwd are valid	08:03
mhz	so, all apps in /bin /usr/bin, etc will be there for users	08:03
mhz	because it is mainly forwarding X via ssh	08:03
c7	mhz: ok cool. yeah if it would ;)	08:04
mhz	so, if Thunderbird has been installed as usual in the server, then the user will use it	08:04
c7	mhz: the problem is i cant login at all..	08:04
c7	:/	08:04
mhz	oh, dapper or breezy?	08:04
c7	dapper	08:04
mhz	damn, I still can't try any flights!	08:05
=== mhz is guilty as charged!
mhz	c7: can I make a couple of questions?	08:05
c7	sure	08:05
mhz	c7: the client get an IP from server?	08:05
c7	yep	08:06
mhz	c7: you see LDM on the client's monitor?	08:06
c7	y	08:06
mhz	the user you want to login is not already logged in in the server side?	08:06
c7	no i dont think so.. but how would i double check?	08:07
mhz	in the server side, in a terminal, type: who	08:07
mhz	(maybe there's a GUI way... no idea)	08:08
c7	sorry what a dumb question ;)	08:08
c7	no he is not logged in	08:08
mhz	very sure	08:08
mhz	?	08:08
c7	yes	08:08
mhz	does the user you are trying to login from client side exist in /etc/passwd in the server side?	08:09
c7	yes	08:10
mhz	then, the only idea I have is to use a breezy trick we had	08:10
mhz	for similar simptoms	08:10
mhz	c7: in the server side, run this command: ltsp-update-sshkeys	08:11
mhz	and try to log in from the client side again	08:11
c7	ive done this like 10 times..	08:11
mhz	oh	08:12
mhz	have you tried with a diff user?	08:12
c7	yes but ill try to create a new one and try again	08:12
mhz	have you tried with a diff client?	08:12
c7	no	08:13
mhz	c7: it is very weired because is you get IP + LDM and you have already updated sshkeys, then it should work ok	08:13
c7	thats what i thought too	08:14
c7	;)	08:14
mhz	:D	08:14
c7	no it doesnt work with a new user called test	08:14
mhz	I know it is not logical but have you rebooted the client?	08:14
c7	yes	08:15
c7	and the server	08:15
mhz	and all those users can perfectly log in to server, at server side	08:15
c7	yes	08:15
mhz	and what errors/symptoms you get to know you are not looging in successfully	08:16
mhz	?	08:16
mhz	you get back to LDM ?	08:17
c7	yes	08:17
mhz	is the client really trying to log in?	08:17
mhz	I mean, you hear or see something on the screen?	08:17
c7	first i get a black screen with a clock cursor then the cursor turns to an x and then im back to ldm	08:18
c7	grrr	08:18
mhz	hmmmm	08:18
mhz	so it does try	08:19
c7	yes but it does the same thing when i enter a false passwd	08:19
c7	wrong pwd	08:19
mhz	and you say those same users get X ok when they log in at the server side?	08:19
c7	yes	08:20
mhz	how much RAM do the clients have?	08:20
c7	512mb	08:20
mhz	wow!	08:20
mhz	each client has 512 MB!!	08:20
mhz	how much ram do the server have?	08:20
c7	300 and some	08:21
mhz	hmmmmmm	08:21
c7	its just a test setup ... with my laptop as a client	08:21
mhz	I have never used LTSP where clients have more RAM than the server :D	08:21
c7	but i dont think this could be the problem	08:22
mhz	I do know that the bare min. RAM for server is 256 + 128 per each client attached to it	08:22
mhz	and that each client should have a tleast 64 MB	08:22
mhz	c7: which desktop is the default X ?	08:23
c7	MemTotal: 386252 kB	08:23
c7	on the server	08:23
mhz	c7: which desktop is the default X ?	08:23
c7	?? sorry	08:23
c7	gnome?	08:24
mhz	ok	08:24
c7	:)	08:24
mhz	do you have any other desktop installed?	08:24
c7	dont think so	08:24
mhz	could you install a light desktop?	08:24
mhz	wmaker, or fluxbox ?	08:24
c7	apt-get install fluxbox?	08:25
=== mhz searching to confimr
mhz	c7: yes	08:26
c7	installed fluxbox and menu	08:26
mhz	already there?	08:26
c7	yep	08:26
mhz	okis, then in a terminal, cd to a /home/test/	08:26
c7	ok	08:26
mhz	nano .xsession	08:26
mhz	and just inser this line to that file: exec fluxbox	08:27
c7	vi .xsession	08:27
mhz	oops, sorry	08:27
mhz	:D	08:27
c7	;)	08:27
mhz	emacs .xession	08:27
mhz	!	08:27
mhz	hehehe	08:27
c7	yeah in the future perhaps	08:27
mhz	save it	08:27
mhz	log in with the user, at the server side and let's see if fluxbox works there, 1st.	08:28
c7	mkay .. switch user	08:28
mhz	I remember, fluxbox used to take looooon time to start in Breezy	08:28
mhz	and wmaker took just a blink to start	08:29
c7	starts in like 3 seconds	08:30
mhz	exellent! (they solved it)	08:30
mhz	now, logout	08:30
c7	allready did	08:31
mhz	and let's try from client side	08:31
c7	nogo	08:31
mhz	with same user, of course :D	08:31
c7	;)	08:31
mhz	damn!	08:31
c7	...	08:33
=== mhz is scratching his head
mhz	tsktsktsk	08:33
c7	:)	08:33
JaneW	highvoltage: nice debian cake :)	08:33
mhz	cake? yummy	08:34
=== mhz needs some sweet
c7	me too	08:34
c7	and some sleep	08:34
c7	8:34 here	08:34
mhz	c7: 03:30 AM	08:34
c7	8:35AM	08:35
mhz	c7: ogra might be a good candidate to help you figure out	08:35
c7	sorry	08:35
mhz	heheh	08:35
mhz	c7: 03:35 AM	08:35
mhz	it is far from logical	08:35
c7	yeah i know but whos gonna wake him up..	08:36
c7	it is	08:36
mhz	UNLESS the flight has known bugs	08:36
c7	what about firestarter?	08:36
mhz	no idea	08:36
c7	or any other firewall?	08:37
c7	which port would i have to open?	08:37
mhz	nah	08:37
mhz	I am using IP tables..	08:37
mhz	oh, wait..	08:37
mhz	maybe you are right	08:37
mhz	can you ssh to clients and from clients to server?	08:38
mhz	AFAIK, ssh is port 22	08:38
mhz	unless someone has modified it	08:39
c7	yes it is	08:39
c7	port 22 is open	08:39
c7	and i can connect to the server from (another) client	08:39
mhz	tsktsktsk	08:39
c7	cant try it on the laptop cause i cant login ;)	08:39
mhz	heheh, sure	08:40
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JaneW	highvoltage: LOL @ your blog post	08:40
JaneW	highvoltage: I think a cocktail is a bit ambitious for me ;)	08:40
mhz	c7: if ogra is sleeping, maybe someone at #ltsp could help	08:40
JaneW	I'll happilly sample them though!	08:40
=== highvoltage will have to take some cocktail making classes then ;)
mhz	c7: they have worked with ogra	08:41
c7	thought they use an older ltsp?	08:41
highvoltage	JaneW: cool! we'll have an edubuntu cocktail launch for the next release then!	08:41
JaneW	highvoltage: good idea!	08:41
mhz	c7: yup, but they are 100% aware of edubuntu worjk	08:41
c7	mkay could try it.. but i think it'l have to wait some hours	08:42
c7	mhz: i have to get some sleep	08:43
mhz	JaneW: 106 cities in Latinamerica are celebrating 1 day of FreeSoftware fest, FLISOL, next saturday	08:43
JaneW	mhz: excellent :))	08:43
highvoltage	106 cities!? wow. must be a big job to co-ordinate.	08:43
mhz	Ubuntu is being #1 guest at InstallFets	08:44
JaneW	by the way in our Prix arz Electronica entry I mentioned that if we win the money	08:44
mhz	fest	08:44
JaneW	(cos they ask what you'll use it for)	08:44
mhz	highvoltage: HUGE job	08:44
JaneW	we would use it for bounties and for sponsored marketing stuff for events	08:44
JaneW	stickers, banner, t-shirts, CDs etc	08:44
mhz	COLL!!!	08:44
mhz	it is needed badly	08:44
JaneW	we should get some nice stuff with 10 000 euro!	08:45
JaneW	no pray that we win, or at least get placed!	08:45
mhz	mybe not "neeeeeeedddddeeed" but "very useful"	08:45
mhz	:)	08:45
JaneW	it would help with our marketing drive to have budget for some visual stuff	08:45
c7	mhz: rm -rf /opt/ltsp/i386/	08:45
mhz	100% agree	08:45
mhz	c7: why?	08:45
JaneW	I didn;t tell them we'd get a BEEEEG cake too ;)	08:46
c7	mhz: ltsp-build-client	08:46
mhz	c7: btw, you just did a fresh edubuntu install, did not touch anything other than stated at wiki:EdubuntuInstallNotes ?	08:46
mhz	c7: ooohhhhh	08:46
mhz	c7: NOPE! big mistake!	08:47
c7	mhz: no, i have a 2 weeks old dapper flight 5 install	08:47
mhz	c7: install notes celarly says: DONT use ltsp standard tools	08:47
mhz	if you want Edubuntu to work	08:47
mhz	:D	08:47
highvoltage	JaneW: :)	08:48
mhz	JaneW: CNN will cover Flisol in Santiago, Chile, where I'll be installing ubuntu and family	08:49
JaneW	highvoltage: thanks for the mail to toxictoadz :)	08:50
mhz	actually, there's a film company that will start shooting to get material for a documentary during the whole 2006, about FLOSS	08:50
spacey	moin	08:52
mhz	moin moin, spacey	08:53
mhz	:D	08:53
spacey	:>	08:53
highvoltage	drupal	08:54
mhz	lol	08:55
mhz	highvoltage: Bluekuja asked me today if we'll have edubuntu forum	08:56
mhz	I told him "I have been disspaeared from edubuntu, so not a clue"	08:56
highvoltage	mhz: there's some interest for an edubuntu forum, but imo sticking to the mailing lists is a good idea	08:56
highvoltage	JaneW, ogra: ping	08:57
highvoltage	Bluekuja is also interested in starting an Italian Edubuntu loco team.	08:57
JaneW	highvoltage: pong	08:57
mhz	that was my 1st thought too, but on a second thought I feel many people, esp. end users,are less familiar with ML than Forums	08:57
highvoltage	since there's not such a thing as edubuntu loco teams yet, i thought it might be something that we would want to discuss.	08:57
mhz	indeed	08:58
highvoltage	should someone start an ubuntu loco team with an edubuntu interest, or should we investigate having edubuntu loco teams?	08:58
Burgundavia	highvoltage: the first	08:58
highvoltage	Burgundavia: i've added it to the community council agenda for the next meeting	08:58
mhz	I started the idea of Edubuntu Chile, and I got complaints from some people "who hardly participate in edubuntu" stating I wanted to become the "owner" of it in Chile, so I let the idea rest	08:59
mhz	:D	08:59
spacey	at least for NL i think edubuntu loco team can be easily combined with normal one	08:59
mhz	spacey: indeed, that is what I was doing and promoting.	09:00
mhz	and in flisol, I will repeat same speech inviting all desktops and ubuntu flavours to work under just one LoCo team, at least until each group is big enough to walk their own way	09:01
spacey	JaneW: read the cookbook stuff?	09:01
spacey	not sure what to think of elkners reply	09:02
spacey	mhz: yeah	09:03
mhz	highvoltage: one thing I will end up doing for sure, is to customize Edubuntu in a way we provide Chilean Cd's of it (spanish as default) and native languages (mapudungun, aymara, quechua, etc)	09:03
spacey	we all have to work together :)	09:03
spacey	thats quite easy	09:03
mhz	spacey: yup, that's the spirit	09:03
mhz	highvoltage: and that will have to be called Edubuntu Chile, even if they dont like it :D	09:04
highvoltage	mhz: wow	09:04
mhz	highvoltage: of course, Chilean CD covers, Chilean everything	09:05
highvoltage	very nice.	09:05
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mhz	highvoltage: was Skubuntu intended to do that too?	09:06
spacey	mhz the normal (not edu) ubuntu team is really active in chile?	09:08
mhz	nope :(	09:09
mhz	so far, we are 3 or 4, very active	09:10
mhz	the rest usually wait for us to move	09:10
mhz	and they follow	09:10
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mhz	there are lots of users, though, spacey	09:10
spacey	ok:)	09:11
mhz	spacey: last time I talked about Ubuntu (last week) I had a room with only 40 people	09:11
mhz	the good thing is that they all wanted to hear about Ubuntu	09:12
spacey	:)	09:12
mhz	and 40 was not a bad number considering that I had to talk at 15:00, right after lunch time, on a friday	09:12
mhz	(that means that 90% of population wanted to go home or do nothing	09:13
highvoltage	mhz: skubuntu is intended to fill the gap between ubuntu and what our requirements in the tuxlab project is	09:13
mhz	gap? really?	09:13
highvoltage	mhz: skubuntu will continue on top of edubuntu, but we'll just call it tuxlabs from now on, to avoid confusion	09:14
mhz	what gaps would you have?	09:14
highvoltage	well, guest accounts is a big thing. there's also some more trivial stuff like our tuxlab theming. and there's also south african content, quite a lot of it, that we add in tuxlabs. unfortunately it's mostly proprietary so we can't distribute it :/	09:16
highvoltage	then there's wikipedia, tuxlab troubleshooter, moodle, and some other stuff too	09:16
mhz	?????????	09:16
mhz	propietary?	09:16
highvoltage	yeah	09:16
highvoltage	education dept would never let us put in the labs without DoE approved content, which is all proprietary.	09:17
Burgundavia	what sort of license and where is the content from?	09:17
=== mhz tries to understand Shuttleworth foundation goals and propietary material
Burgundavia	hmm	09:17
Burgundavia	mhz: I think the issue here is the SA gov, not the foundation	09:17
highvoltage	Burgundavia: see http://www.computers4kids.co.za http://www.learnthings.co.za	09:18
highvoltage	we also have http://www.edupac.co.za, which is at least intended to be OSS, but they don't have a license for their software yet :)	09:19
Burgundavia	ah, that is the "lucrative local content" work that OLPC alludes to	09:19
highvoltage	mhz: ideally we'd have 100% OSS, but there's no OSS content available that's approved by the DoE :(	09:19
mhz	hmmmm	09:20
highvoltage	Burgundavia: in south africa, there are many bad guys selling crappy content to schools for huge amount of money. it's really disgusting.	09:20
=== mhz tries to understand it but can't... content is not better or worst based on the licence
Burgundavia	think they don't milk us here too?	09:20
Burgundavia	mhz: that is what SILC here is trying to do	09:20
Burgundavia	http://silc.ca/	09:20
highvoltage	mhz: OSS content is nice, because that means the kids can take the content home, it also means that people like us can distribute it on a large scale, with very little complications	09:21
mhz	Burgundavia: here?	09:21
Burgundavia	canada	09:22
mhz	highvoltage: Burgundavia, the speech I usually give is related how KEY is free access to content and information if we want a sound Sustainable Development	09:23
mhz	Burgundavia: oh, thx	09:23
Burgundavia	future proofing, indeed	09:23
mhz	esp. when we talk about subdeveloped regions	09:24
mhz	In all modern societies, access to knowledge is as essential as milk or water or food	09:24
Burgundavia	well, most natives in Canada might as well be living in teh developing world, their quality of life is so crap. It is almost criminal how badly they are off	09:25
mhz	exactly	09:26
mhz	but WE are guilty of that	09:26
mhz	because WE let that happen by accepting it is a reality	09:26
mhz	yeah, I know "we" are doing something to change it	09:26
mhz	but this "we" is tooo little yet	09:27
mhz	and the knowledge growth rate is too BIG	09:27
mhz	highvoltage: BTW, usually, my poresentations are rendered by Moin :D	09:42
mhz	(MoinSlideShow)	09:43
iGotNoTime	can we get pron from synaptic?	09:44
iGotNoTime	LMAO	09:44
iGotNoTime	it was a joke :P	09:45
iGotNoTime	really	09:45
=== Burgundavia doesn't tell iGotNoTime about pornget
Burgundavia	:)	09:46
iGotNoTime	ohhh!	09:46
iGotNoTime	doh	09:46
iGotNoTime	LOL	09:46
iGotNoTime	can GAIM work with voice services of any native IM clients or no?	09:50
iGotNoTime	sorry native WIN IM Clients	09:50
Burgundavia	voice? hmm, no idea	09:50
iGotNoTime	I had skype for a day or two but voice would only connect for 5 seconds at a time	09:51
highvoltage	mhz: hehe	09:53
Burgundavia	skype isn't bad. It is just non-free and their UI locks like bollocks	09:55
iGotNoTime	I am not a skype advocate, I really have quite the distain for proprietary networks	09:56
jsgotangco	yeah	09:56
jsgotangco	actually skype is pretty useful for me	09:56
iGotNoTime	I am SIP all the way	09:56
iGotNoTime	but just like XP and MSN you can't fight the numbers	09:56
iGotNoTime	everyone I know uses skype	09:56
iGotNoTime	no matter what I try to convince them to use	09:56
iGotNoTime	Google Talk has some serious potential, but will take some time to win the people over to it	09:57
=== pips1 [n=philipp@122.57.3.213.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #edubuntu
=== mhz goes to sleep
=== DeMoNSeEd [n=DeMoNSeE@67.71.135.199] has joined #edubuntu
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ogra	highvoltage, the plan was to get the whole list of people and send out my bank details with a big CC list once Seveas has feedback from everyone :)	11:03
=== jinty [n=jinty@135.Red-80-37-34.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #edubuntu
ogra	http://img114.imageshack.us/img114/5436/openofficesplashedu8to.png	11:24
pips1	hehe, nice bit of branding :-)	11:30
=== yvesC [n=yves@zenobi.ycombe.net] has joined #edubuntu
ogra	its going round on the ubuntu-art mailing list, i wonder if our ooo2 package even supports themeing ...	11:32
pips1	ogra, I want to install flight5 server at home now. :-) I'll have a few questions	11:40
ogra	shoot	11:40
pips1	since it's the easiest setup for edubuntu server, you recommended to disable dhcp on my router, right?	11:40
ogra	yep	11:41
ogra	otherwise you'd have to teach your routers dhcpd to handle netbooting, thats the alternative	11:42
ogra	:)	11:42
pips1	I don't want to disturb the internet access of my wife's imac (osX) here at home. She normally get's an ip by dhcp... so I figured I need to give the iMac (and my laptop) an ip manually...	11:42
ogra	or just use the right values for your ltsp dhcpd :)	11:43
=== Seveas [n=seveas@ubuntu/member/seveas] has joined #edubuntu
ogra	look them up in the router and use the same IP range, gateway and nameserver information	11:43
pips1	however, when i tried to set the ip manually, I lost my internet connection, so I restarted networking (to get an ip via dhcp again)	11:43
ogra	then you dont need to change the other clients	11:43
pips1	ah, ok, I'll look at the router infos	11:44
pips1	my router is 192.168.1.1, for that class of network, what is my range? (how many private ips can I specify?)	11:45
pips1	can i just pick any number for the last digit?	11:46
pips1	wow, there are lots of configuration options for my router 8-O	11:49
pips1	;-)	11:49
=== gnomefreak [n=gnomefre@adsl-221-4-222.rmo.bellsouth.net] has joined #edubuntu
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pips1	ogra, is there anything in particular you want me to test / have a close look onto in the installation sequence?	12:00
=== pips1 is ready to start installing
ogra	it is tested and should run fine, please tell me if you see any problems	12:01
pips1	right	12:01
pips1	well, for a start, the install menu options don't seem to be fully localised yet, i.e. I chose 'Deutsch' and the options still read 'Install to the hard disk', etc.	12:03
pips1	damm, now i remember	12:04
pips1	sorry,	12:04
pips1	you mentioned several times that edubuntu only has English	12:04
pips1	pardon!	12:04
ogra	if you have a working network connection its fine ...	12:04
ogra	it will just take a bit to get the 15MB of kde langpacks	12:05
ogra	just answer yes if the installer asks if it should download the langpacks	12:05
ogra	(and you can use german in the installer with no problems, its just that the desktop is missing tanslations)	12:06
pips1	it's not really a big issue, however, I would just be very "polished" if those couple of menu options where available translated on the installer cd already, or, the language choose F2 would be disabled in the installer...	12:06
pips1	s/I/it would just...	12:07
pips1	do you understand what I meant?	12:08
ogra	i think thats planned	12:08
pips1	ah	12:08
pips1	still in the works, I see :-)	12:09
pips1	ok	12:09
pips1	well, actually, some of the menu items did change (F2 Sprache, F6 Weitere Optionen, the rest is still in English)	12:10
ogra	yep	12:10
=== bimberi [n=bimberi@pdpc/supporter/active/bimberi] has joined #edubuntu
ogra	WIP :)	12:10
pips1	so I take it the installer menus is still being worked on/polished quite a bit... if I choose F6 it get a wierd "popup" selection that displays too far to the right, so you can't read the options fully...	12:12
pips1	ok, I won't worry about all those nifty details with flight5 then.. :-) and rather get that ltsp server going!	12:14
ogra	:)	12:15
JaneW	ogra: ping	12:16
ogra	JaneW, pong	12:16
JaneW	ogra: you managed to post our entry form off yet?	12:16
ogra	sure	12:16
ogra	yesterday afternoon	12:16
ogra	dunno how long it takes though ... our snailmail situation here at the end of the world might not be better than yours :)	12:17
JaneW	ogra: excellnt, thanks so much	12:18
JaneW	ogra: that should be fine, they said as long as the post mark is on or before the 24th, so we should be safe :)	12:18
ogra	hey, its also my price if we win it g :)	12:18
JaneW	ogra: indeed!	12:18
ogra	great ...	12:19
ogra	that will happen in any case	12:19
JaneW	ogra: better dry-clean your suit ;)	12:19
ogra	heh	12:19
ogra	i got fat shortly after i bought it ... i guess i'd need a new one ...	12:20
JaneW	you-fat?	12:20
JaneW	hardly	12:20
ogra	i only look slim ... before UBZ i was as slim as mdz, just taller	12:21
ogra	now i only have two trousers left out of 10 that fit :)	12:21
JaneW	edubuntu did that didn't it :/	12:21
JaneW	before UBZ was 5.10!	12:21
ogra	not getting my ass out of this chair did it :)	12:21
Bluekuja	jane?	12:21
JaneW	Bluekuja: yes hi	12:21
ogra	Bluekuja, hey, welcome, new team member ! :)	12:22
=== ogra waves to italy
Bluekuja	hi ogra :)	12:22
=== JaneW waves to Italy too
Bluekuja	nice	12:23
pips1	ogra, are there any plans to change appearances of 'ubuntu' in the installer to 'edubuntu'? (pips1 is still in nitpicking mode)	12:23
ogra	dunno, i wouldnt mind it either way ...	12:23
ogra	if someone takes care for it or pokes me to do it, it will be changed, but i dont see a reason to hide our inheritance ...	12:24
Bluekuja	ogra nice to meet you	12:24
ogra	Bluekuja, nice to meet you as well :)	12:24
Bluekuja	i come to main chat soon , im finishing to talk with jane ;)	12:24
ogra	heh, good :)	12:25
=== JaneW is honoured to be prioritised ;)
ogra	pips1, its not on my "urgent" list :)	12:25
pips1	it just happened to me several times that I downloaded both ubuntu and edubuntu installers, did an install, and only realise when it was too late that I had the wrong one...	12:25
pips1	ogra, I fully understand :-)	12:25
ogra	pips1, seems that happens to more people ... i have often pings from #ubuntu ... where people complain they suddenly have the edubuntu usplash :)	12:26
Bluekuja	okie im here	12:26
Bluekuja	i was talking with jane about the creation of a edubuntu forum	12:26
ogra	so it might be worth to change it, even if i think the gfxboot splashscreen is pretty celar its edubuntu ;)	12:26
JaneW	what was the final verdict on the edubuntu forums discussion?	12:26
Bluekuja	coz im creating a template similar to edubuntu website ome	12:27
JaneW	yes/no?	12:27
ogra	Bluekuja, i guess then pips1 is the right person, he just sets up our new website	12:27
Bluekuja	good hehe	12:27
JaneW	ogra: and highvoltage	12:27
pips1	I even gave a cd to someone else, and then that guy told me he ended up with edubuntu...	12:27
Bluekuja	so i might talk with him	12:27
ogra	(based on drupal which also have forum capabilitys)	12:27
Bluekuja	hehe	12:27
JaneW	pips1: can you chat with Bluekuja ?	12:27
ogra	s/have/has/	12:27
pips1	Bluekuja, i'm right here! :-)	12:28
ogra	pips1, but as long as the first screen says edubuntu, i blame the user ;)	12:28
Bluekuja	okie pipsl	12:28
Bluekuja	listen	12:28
=== JaneW has to chat to silbs
JaneW	bbl	12:28
pips1	ogra, yep, it does say edubuntu in the middle	12:28
Bluekuja	ur re designing website right?	12:29
ogra	pips1, exactly ... :)	12:29
pips1	Bluekuja, I work with highvoltage on the website, yes	12:29
pips1	we split the work	12:29
Bluekuja	ok good listen , im creating a template for the forum	12:29
pips1	highvoltage will tackle the look/design	12:29
ogra	JaneW, probably point out that we might get probs with community contributions if the colorscheme changes heavily ;)	12:29
Bluekuja	do u know smf ,forum board?	12:30
pips1	Bluekuja, which forum?	12:30
ogra	JaneW, (i missed that yesterday, but wont scratch on the topic again for now)	12:30
JaneW	ogra: ok	12:30
Bluekuja	there was an idea to create an edubuntu forum	12:30
JaneW	ogra: although I need to talk to her about the LPI cert ;)	12:30
pips1	Bluekuja, you mean over at ubuntuforums? right?	12:30
ogra	ah :)	12:30
Bluekuja	nope , i mean a separeted one ,linked to edubuntu website	12:31
pips1	Bluekuja, well, we would prefer an integrated one, rather than a seperate one	12:31
Bluekuja	coz in ubuntuforums there will be only a section dedicated to edubuntu not an entire forum	12:31
Bluekuja	u mean integrated in an existing one?	12:32
ogra	integrated into the whole website ...	12:32
Bluekuja	yeah ,i've understood , so the idea is to create a forum inside the website	12:33
Bluekuja	like ubuntu-it one	12:33
pips1	haven't seen ubuntu-it, need to have a look at that!	12:33
Bluekuja	http://forum.ubuntu-it.org	12:33
Bluekuja	see it	12:34
=== pips1 looks
Bluekuja	do u mean something like that?	12:34
pips1	well, ours will be probably even more integrated than that	12:35
ogra	very important is that we want the authentication handled by launchpad if possible ... so its easier to have all (webserver,forums etc) in one server	12:35
Bluekuja	ok ,thats a good idea	12:35
Bluekuja	wat board will use the forum?	12:36
pips1	ogra, yes, I agree, logins should work for both launchpad, wiki and website	12:36
pips1	Bluekuja, ?	12:36
ogra	yep ... single sign on, hehe	12:36
Bluekuja	i mean which forum software wull use	12:36
ogra	drupal	12:36
pips1	ogra beat me to it ;-)	12:36
ogra	heh	12:37
Bluekuja	ok good	12:37
Bluekuja	hehe	12:37
Bluekuja	that sounds good	12:37
pips1	there are lots of communication tools available for ubuntu/edubuntu/kubuntu ... for newbies it can be a bit confusing and overwhelming... since we target teachers & students, we aim for an integrated website	12:39
Bluekuja	yeah ,i agree with that	12:40
Bluekuja	it must be simply	12:41
Bluekuja	and easy to navigate	12:41
Bluekuja	by newbies	12:41
pips1	yes!	12:41
Bluekuja	ok good , im installing in local drupal	12:43
Bluekuja	^^	12:43
pips1	cool, drupal is a nice tool	12:43
pips1	Bluekuja, have you seen that German Site? http://www.ubuntuusers.de/	12:44
=== lucasvo [n=lucasvo@www.wservices.ch] has joined #edubuntu
Bluekuja	let me see it :)	12:46
Bluekuja	ok seen	12:47
Bluekuja	thats a nice site	12:47
Bluekuja	isnt it?	12:47
pips1	yes, nicely done	12:48
Bluekuja	that can be the idea of edubuntu website	12:49
pips1	http://www.ubuntuusers.de/map/	12:49
pips1	a map of all users registered on the german site	12:50
pips1	(takes a while to load, that page)	12:50
ogra	ah, a UbuntuWorldwide clone ?	12:50
pips1	ogra, haven't seen that yet!	12:51
ogra	https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWorldWide	12:51
pips1	wow	12:52
pips1	so many users, the names overlap....	12:52
Bluekuja	nice	12:53
pips1	in the german vesion, you can click on the individual users and get more info	12:53
pips1	(you get that member's page)	12:54
Bluekuja	really nice	12:55
Bluekuja	im browsing now drupal	12:55
pips1	did you install the debian package?	12:55
Bluekuja	mmmm...nope	12:56
pips1	what version of drupal?	12:56
Bluekuja	downloaded it from drupal.org	12:56
Bluekuja	4.6	12:56
pips1	right, ok	12:56
Bluekuja	sorry 4.7	12:56
pips1	ah	12:57
Bluekuja	beta one	12:57
pips1	that's still in beta, yep	12:57
Bluekuja	yeah its a nice software	12:57
Bluekuja	easy too administrate too	12:57
pips1	yes	12:57
pips1	the best feature is the taxonomy (categories)	12:58
pips1	make's it really flexible, for navigation ... menus, etc	12:58
Bluekuja	yes ,thats a really good software for our purpose	12:59
=== ogra grumbles at jelkner ...
Bluekuja	i go to eat something back in 30 minutes ;)	12:59
ogra	he should know i'm subscribed to the ML i run ... grr	12:59
pips1	talk to you l8r	01:00
=== Rondom [n=Rondom@mrbg-d9b953bf.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #edubuntu
pips1	ogra, what's the plan regarding install option for edubuntu? do you keep the 'workstation' option?	01:01
ogra	sure	01:02
pips1	in F1 Help, that option isn't explained though...	01:02
ogra	i'd love to hide the server option or to rename it to minimal	01:02
pips1	ogra, i agree	01:02
pips1	what's the word? are they up for renaming it?	01:03
pips1	how could be get the 'workstation' option explained under F1 ?	01:04
pips1	(oh, so many typoes)	01:05
pips1	I meant, I am making typoes here on irc	01:05
ogra	thats just a change to the isolinux text .. its trivial	01:05
pips1	oh, so you could easily add a one-liner description for 'workstation' then	01:05
pips1	is that on your list?	01:06
pips1	:-)	01:06
=== pips1 will be known as "the little nitpicker" aka "pain-in-the-xxx"
ogra	could you file a bug agauinst debian-installer and assign it to me as reminder ?	01:07
pips1	ok, will do	01:08
pips1	can I assign you in malone? do I need to "subscribe" you? how do I do it?	01:13
pips1	if found hostmaster at grawert dot net	01:13
pips1	ogra, I don't know how to 'assign' you to the bug in malone, I only see an option to "subscribe" you to get change notes for the bug...	01:15
pips1	https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/debian-installer/+bug/36139	01:15
ogra	you click on the package name in the top table ...	01:16
ogra	there you can change asignee severity etc ...	01:16
=== highvoltage waves to italy too (while catching up on the channel)
=== C-O-L-T [n=icechat5@193.231.163.10] has joined #edubuntu
Bluekuja	here i am again	01:32
Bluekuja	pipsl still there?	01:32
pips1	Bluekuja, now I'm eating :-)	01:32
pips1	talk to you later	01:33
pips1	?	01:33
Bluekuja	hehe oki tell me when u finish	01:33
Bluekuja	;)	01:33
=== mhz [n=mhz_chil@pc-252-84-215-201.cm.vtr.net] has joined #edubuntu
Bluekuja	hi mhz :)	01:36
mhz	hey	01:36
Bluekuja	how are you?all ok?	01:36
mhz	just reaing emails and getting ready to leave	01:36
Bluekuja	hehe	01:37
Bluekuja	a busy man	01:37
highvoltage	Bluekuja: doin' fine	01:37
mhz	highvoltage: morning	01:37
Bluekuja	wat time is it there?	01:40
highvoltage	mhz: good afternoon from my side	01:40
mhz	08:40	01:40
Bluekuja	hehehe	01:41
highvoltage	14:41 here.	01:41
Bluekuja	13.41 here	01:42
mhz	highvoltage: you know if Luke Yelavich is around or his nick ?	01:56
highvoltage	mhz: i don't know	01:57
ogra	mhz, TheMuso	02:00
ogra	he's in -devel	02:00
Bluekuja	ogra	02:01
Bluekuja	are u there?	02:02
mhz	ogra: Hi!!	02:02
Bluekuja	aww gone hehe	02:02
ogra	nah	02:02
Bluekuja	lol	02:03
ogra	i just do my work aside ... cant always answer immediately	02:03
Bluekuja	yeah :)	02:03
highvoltage	hehe. ogra you make it sound like IRC is your main thing and work is just something you do aside :)	02:04
ogra	highvoltage, it sometimes is ;)	02:04
ogra	on wednesdays for example ...	02:05
=== ealden [n=ealden@203.76.212.175] has joined #edubuntu
ogra	ususally the meeting brings up questions that keep me chatting for hours before i can get to work again ;)	02:05
Bluekuja	hehe	02:05
pips1	here comes another question for ogra ;-)	02:14
pips1	my router's dhcp range starts at 192.168.1.1 and ends at 192.168.1.63. So for the edubuntu server, do I pick an ip within or outside of that range?	02:14
ogra	pick the same ;)	02:14
ogra	but start at .2	02:15
pips1	right	02:15
ogra	.1 should be the router :)	02:15
pips1	but I got a laptop and a imac here too, they areadly might have .2 or .3 or whatnot ?	02:15
pips1	my laptop got .4 actually	02:16
pips1	does it matter if I pick something and there is a "gap" in the numbering, shouldn't be a problem, right?	02:16
ogra	nope	02:16
ogra	thats fine ..	02:17
pips1	ah sorry, I wrote something wrong	02:17
pips1	my router's dhcp range starts at 192.168.1.33	02:17
pips1	funnily enough, my laptop is at .4, so I don't quite understand how that is possible	02:18
=== pips1 is confused
pips1	do I pick 192.168.1.33 for the server then?	02:19
ogra	just pick one :)	02:19
ogra	it doesnt matter :)	02:19
pips1	right, ok	02:19
ogra	it just has to be consistent ...	02:19
=== neurogeek [n=neurogee@200.93.35.152] has joined #edubuntu
ogra	worst case you need to renew the IPs on the other two machines	02:20
pips1	define "consistent" please ;-)	02:20
ogra	use the same ip for the server everywhere ;)	02:21
pips1	ok, gotcha	02:21
pips1	ogra, my router's id is 192.168.1.1 so I used that very same ip for gateway and name server... right?	02:30
ogra	nameserver might be your providers nameserver	02:31
ogra	gateway is right ...	02:31
pips1	darn... I guess I need to reconfigure the nameserver later in that case	02:31
ogra	use 217.115.139.139	02:32
ogra	thats my server ...	02:32
pips1	what happens if the installer can't resolve ?	02:32
pips1	will the installation proceed, simply without internet access?	02:32
ogra	you wont get langpackages from the repo	02:32
ogra	yep	02:32
ogra	it will get slower though ...	02:32
pips1	right... well that's what happening now :-)	02:33
pips1	oops	02:33
pips1	debootstrap-warning	02:33
pips1	...deb was corrupt	02:34
ogra	ouch	02:34
ogra	how fast did you burn ?	02:34
pips1	udev_079-0ubuntu18_amd64.deb	02:34
pips1	I burnt it at 8x	02:34
ogra	hmm	02:34
ogra	do a integrity check ...	02:35
pips1	so I choose <back> and do that check...	02:35
pips1	it won't really let me go back... it's trying one package after the other...	02:36
ogra	so you didnt have a red screen ?	02:36
=== mphill [i=mphill@CPE-70-92-245-5.wi.res.rr.com] has joined #edubuntu
pips1	gives me all those warnings "Couldn't download package ..."	02:37
pips1	yes red screen	02:37
ogra	then start over again ...	02:37
ogra	either your download or the media is broken	02:37
pips1	i simply reboot?	02:37
ogra	yep	02:37
=== pips1 is rebooting
pips1	well, probably download was broken because I used that wrong ip for nameserve	02:39
pips1	r	02:39
=== pips1 is doing integrity check
pips1	when asked about proxy, should I enter a ubuntu mirror? or is proxy used for something else?	02:40
pips1	ah, corrupt install cd	02:41
pips1	oh, dear	02:41
ogra	proxy is used if you have a http proxy anywhere ...	02:43
ogra	if you didnt use one before, just ignore it	02:43
neurogeek	mhz, ping	02:45
mhz	neurogeek: pong	02:45
neurogeek	mhz, how is it going? did you get anything from Ricardo?	02:45
mhz	nope, unfortunately	02:46
=== pitux [n=pitux@129-42-246-201.adsl.terra.cl] has joined #edubuntu
mhz	and I have asked for extentention and they gae until today in 1 hour	02:47
neurogeek	OK, let me check that again	02:51
mhz	neurogeek: I appreciate it	02:51
mhz	they like the idea of a biz man reglated to FLOSS	02:51
=== pips1_ [n=philipp@84.59.202.62.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #edubuntu
flint	ogra, finally figured out the edubuntu mail delay. Kinda simple, I set myself up as getting the digest. This does not make for responsiveness but is great for throughput. so it goes.	03:07
ogra	heh	03:08
ogra	fix that then :)	03:08
flint	ogra, na, I think that I enjoy the rumor mill followed by the facts, kinda like the current Amerikan Media and Bush Administration. Would feel uncomfortable with the facts prior to the spin. :^)	03:09
mhz	ogra: have you seen Yagisan latey?	03:18
mhz	lately	03:18
ogra	he was here this week, yes	03:19
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mhz	ogra: thx	03:21
=== pips1_ burnt another cd at 4x, did integrity check, went ok, now install
ogra	great	03:22
pips1_	is there a way for selecting a local ubuntu mirror during install?	03:22
pips1_	or is the mirror selected automatically?	03:23
ogra	i think in the expert install thats possible	03:23
pips1_	oic	03:23
pips1_	so proxy has nothing to do with that at all...	03:24
ogra	else it will select the mirror based on your language selection	03:24
ogra	nope	03:24
pips1_	i can leave proxy blank, then?	03:24
ogra	yep	03:24
ogra	just hit enter	03:24
pips1_	ok, cheers	03:24
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jsgotangco	hey all	03:27
pips1_	I hope it runs through this time :-) I'm still a bit confused about those network settings, I though I understood the basic concepts, about private networks vs. public networks, nat, etc. but it's all a bit abstract :-)	03:27
pips1_	hey jsgotangco	03:28
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neurogeek	mhz, Ricardo will be online in a few mins	03:31
highvoltage	bye!	03:32
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mhz	neurogeek: his cv, his cv :D	03:35
Bluekuja	jane?	03:38
Bluekuja	ogra ?	03:39
mphill	does anyone have any suggestions on educational software that does not come with ubuntu?	03:42
mphill	rather edubuntu	03:42
Bluekuja	u mean	03:43
Bluekuja	u need additional software	03:43
mphill	yes	03:43
Bluekuja	educational one	03:43
Bluekuja	in ubuntu	03:43
mphill	additional education software	03:43
Bluekuja	well you can find	03:44
Bluekuja	in	03:44
Bluekuja	apllications	03:44
Bluekuja	add applications	03:44
Bluekuja	edutainment	03:44
Bluekuja	a lot of educational sofwatre	03:45
Bluekuja	*software	03:45
Bluekuja	that u can easily add	03:45
mphill	does edubuntu have the ltsp included and in the same location of /opt/ltsp?	03:45
ogra	yes	03:45
Bluekuja	i think yes	03:45
Bluekuja	yes it have it	03:46
Bluekuja	ogra	03:46
Bluekuja	i need to talk with u one moment	03:46
Bluekuja	:)	03:46
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ogra	you can also look at ofset.org or schoolforge.net for software thats not packaged yet, they have lists	03:46
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ogra	Bluekuja, just ask your question :)	03:46
ogra	(no need to ask to ask :) )	03:46
mphill	ogra: have done setup for school?	03:50
mphill	s/school/schools	03:50
ogra	mphill, not personally, no, but there are plenty of people using edubuntu at schools	03:51
mphill	from a principle stand point, do you think its shardy if I were to develope and angel of my business into getting all machinces and setting up linux labs for a fraction of what a lab costs, and make money off that. keep in mind the school would be saving thousands of dollars.	03:53
mphill	i should proof read before i send :)	03:53
ogra	7me looks up shardy	03:54
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strusberg	Hi Mhz	04:05
mhz	strusberg: hi!!!	04:05
mhz	strusberg, please join #mhz	04:06
strusberg	mhz, ok	04:06
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mhz	strusberg: leyendo	04:14
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pips1_	ogra, found a wierd localisation bug: the installer ask me if I want to download language support - this question is in english, rather than german, like all the dialog questions before... I downloaded the debian-installer language file (po) from launchpad, but I could find those english strings in the po file at all...	04:31
pips1_	so... against what should I file a bug?	04:32
ogra	look at rosetta, it should be in there	04:32
ogra	debian-installer as well	04:32
ogra	oh, no, wait	04:32
ogra	i think the installer translations are handled by Kamion separately	04:33
pips1_	right	04:33
pips1_	so what do I do?	04:33
ogra	ping him ?	04:33
pips1_	where would i find him? in #ubuntu-dev? or smth?	04:34
ogra	-devel is fine	04:34
pips1_	ah, right	04:34
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mphill	i was never prompted to enter a root password	05:06
ogra	see wiki.edubuntu.org/RootSudo	05:06
mphill	can i switch to the traditional way	05:08
ogra	sure, but you'll still need your own password for all the gui tools	05:08
ogra	so you wont gain much with setting a root pw	05:09
=== pips1_ finished flight5 install
ogra	sudo -s is fine for becoming root permanently and you only need to keep one PW in mind and dont loose the advantage of a locked root	05:10
pips1_	ogra, there's no internet access on the server :-( I must have chosen a wrong ip for gateway perhaps... if I do route, i get desination: localnet and gateway: * ???	05:11
=== pips1_ is now known as pips1
ogra	can you ping the gateway ip ?#	05:12
pips1	lemme try	05:12
pips1	nope, host unreachable	05:13
ogra	hmm, but your route has a fixed IP ?	05:13
ogra	*router	05:13
pips1	nope	05:14
pips1	don't thinks so	05:14
ogra	ah...	05:14
ogra	the router should have a fixed IP you can reach ...	05:14
ogra	damned, i didnt tell you that before ...	05:14
pips1	hold on, there might be a misunderstanding	05:14
pips1	the external ip isn't fixed, but my routers ip is fixed, i think?	05:15
pips1	I mean, I can reach my router with the same ip in our private network	05:16
pips1	but I think the provider assigns the public ip to my router dynamically, or smth	05:17
pips1	does this make sense at all???	05:17
ogra	but your ltsp server is attached to the inside of the router, right ?	05:18
pips1	yes	05:18
ogra	and you choose the same IP parameters the routers IP is in for the dhcp server	05:18
pips1	setup as such: router - combined hardwarefirewall/8portswitch - hub - server	05:19
ogra	i.e. if the router is 192.168.100.1 you choose 192.168.100.X for the dhcp server	05:19
pips1	yes, me thinks	05:19
ogra	hmm, then you should be able to ping 192.168.100.1 from the server in my above example ...	05:20
pips1	well, my laptop is on the same hub as the server, and i can reach the router from my laptop...	05:21
ogra	whats the ip of the server ?	05:21
ogra	and whats the exact ip of the router ?	05:21
pips1	192.168.1.33 <-- that is from the dhcp range of my router	05:21
ogra	ok	05:22
ogra	and the router ?	05:22
pips1	^^^^^^^^ thats the ip of server	05:22
ogra	192.168.1.1 ?	05:22
pips1	yes	05:22
ogra	hmm, then something is wrong ...	05:22
ogra	you should even be able to ping it without a route set ...	05:22
ogra	can you paste the output of sudo route ?	05:23
pips1	ok	05:23
ogra	ah, forget the sudo :)	05:23
pips1	well, I can't paste directly, so i'll copy it manually...	05:23
ogra	Ziel Router Genmask Flags Metric Ref Use Iface	05:24
ogra	192.168.100.0 * 255.255.255.0 U 0 0 0 eth2	05:24
ogra	default 192.168.100.1 0.0.0.0 UG 0 0 0 eth2	05:24
ogra	thats a working routing table ...	05:24
pips1	localnet * 255.255.255.0 U 0 0 0 eth0	05:24
ogra	yours should be similar with other ips	05:24
pips1	and the second line:	05:25
ogra	ah, try route -n	05:25
ogra	we want ips :)	05:25
pips1	default 192.168.1.1 0.0.0.0 UG 0 0 0 eth0	05:25
ogra	looks ok	05:25
pips1	ok	05:25
ogra	localnet should be 192.168.1.0 in the first line if you run with -n	05:26
pips1	192.168.1.0 0.0.0.0 255.255.255.0 U 0 0 0 eth0	05:26
ogra	looks fine ...	05:26
ogra	hmm	05:26
ogra	thats strange	05:26
pips1	:-D	05:26
pips1	hehe	05:26
ogra	the dhcp server on the router is disabled ?	05:26
pips1	no, enabled?	05:26
ogra	and you dont have the .33 used anywhere ?	05:26
pips1	sorry, enabled!	05:26
ogra	ah :)	05:27
ogra	you cant run two dhcp servers easily in one LAN :)	05:27
ogra	(you can, but it gives even me a cold shower to think about setting it up)	05:28
pips1	i thought you said i could leave it enabled, but that I just needed to put the right ip values, accordingly	05:28
ogra	nope	05:28
ogra	you can only run one ...	05:28
pips1	oh, misunderstood you then	05:28
ogra	else they'll clash	05:28
ogra	and the router needs a fixed ip ...	05:28
pips1	so, should I just disable the dhcp on the router, then?	05:28
pips1	I didn't apply for a fixed ip with my provider, me thinks, it's more expensive :-/	05:29
pips1	in the router web config menu, it looks as if I could set a fixed ip, I just wouldn't know what ip to use, since I didn't get one from the provider	05:30
ogra	no, the router needs a fixed ip on the inside ...	05:30
pips1	ah, ok	05:30
ogra	(192.168.1.1 ;) )	05:30
pips1	ok, so I simply turn of dhcp on the router and reboot edubuntu?	05:31
ogra	yep	05:31
ogra	not sure you need to reboot though	05:31
ogra	sudo ifdown/ifup might do it	05:32
pips1	what happens to my laptop and wife's imac ip's? will they just continue to work?	05:32
ogra	you might need to renew them ... they should pick up the IPs from the ltsp dhcp	05:33
=== pips1 goes downstairs to warn his wife that internet might be down for some open source testing geekery
pips1	:-)	05:33
pips1	ogra, strange, I disabled, dhcp on the router, but no change, i.e. still can't reach the router on the server	05:42
ogra	are you sure that physically is everything ok ?	05:42
pips1	lemme double check	05:43
ogra	wiring etc ...	05:43
ogra	there is no reason it wouldnt work the way you've set it up	05:43
pips1	well, the wires all seem fine, the ethernet led's on both hub and server nic are blinking...	05:43
ogra	hmm	05:44
ogra	you should be able to ping then ...	05:44
pips1	i'll try to ping my laptop from the server	05:44
ogra	yes, good idea	05:44
pips1	no luck	05:45
pips1	"unreachable"	05:45
ogra	hmm ...	05:45
ogra	weird	05:45
ogra	and they all are on the same hub ?	05:45
pips1	ha! i can successfully ping the server from my laptop !	05:45
pips1	how strange indeed	05:46
ogra	yeah	05:46
pips1	a "one-way" nic on my server ;-)	05:46
pips1	could I try to ssh from my laptop to the server?	05:48
=== pips1 is wondering how to debug this
=== pips1 tries sudo /etc/init.d/networking restart
pips1	aha, temporary failure in name resolution	05:52
ogra	sure, if you cant reach the internet, you cant reach my server for dns resolution	05:53
pips1	right	05:53
pips1	it's so strange, my laptop reaches the internet just fine	05:54
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pips1	do you think my hardware-firewall could be the culprit?	05:54
pips1	not really, eh	05:55
ogra	hmm	05:57
ogra	can you get around it easily to check it ?	05:58
pips1	yes	05:58
pips1	it sitting under the stairs	05:58
pips1	what could i check though?	05:59
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pips1	ogra, I need to investigate about my router and hwfirewall... I think i never actually disabled dhcp on the router, also, I discovered that the hw-firewall also provides a dhcp server, what a mess!!	06:33
ogra	urgh	06:33
pips1	the web interfaces to the router and hw-firewall aren't that terribly conclusive	06:34
lucasvo	better than writing your own rules	06:34
lucasvo	Iptables -d bla bla bla	06:34
pips1	unchecking the dhcp checkbox resulted in a page refresh, but actually, dhcp was still active, I need to press a form button for the change to actually happen... but without dhcp, my laptop couldn't even even reach the router's ip anymore... so I had to hardware-reset the router to get dhcp back up and be able to get to the web interface of the router... bla	06:36
pips1	lucasvo, yes, but at least you see exactly what you configured/wrote in iptables ;-)	06:37
lucasvo	pips1: yeah, but you also have to understand it	06:37
pips1	hehe	06:37
lucasvo	I didn't write my own. fwbuilder is actually quite good	06:37
pips1	no pain, no gain	06:38
pips1	;-)	06:38
pips1	well, it depends on how many services you need to run... if it's just 4 or so services, it's not that hard to write it yourself in iptables	06:39
pips1	block all, and just open the ports you need...	06:40
pips1	anyway	06:40
HedgeMage	I often do it by hand, mostly out of habit :)	06:40
pips1	ogra, i'll need to continue another day, gotta go, but thanks for all your patient answers! :-)	06:41
ogra	thanks for testing :)	06:41
lucasvo	yes, but I mean with NAT, dns, dhcp, www, and last but not least portmap/nfs	06:44
lucasvo	Lag: 132	06:44
lucasvo	uff	06:44
pips1	I am getting a better idea of what needs to go into a howto for a newbie ;-) all those built-in dhcp and whatnot services in the router/switch/firewall/whatever-hardware are quite confusing	06:44
ogra	why would you forward portmap/nfs to the world ?	06:44
ogra	thats evil :)	06:44
ogra	an ddhcp wont gain you anything if you forward it	06:45
ogra	pips1, the prob is that every router is different ... you cant cover them all	06:46
pips1	ogra, hmm, well I think i'm starting to understand why it will be difficult for edubuntu to find lots of community testing... every newb can do a workstation install on their own lappie, but setting up a lab, requires two or more machines, networking hardware, etc..	06:48
ogra	yep	06:49
ogra	but i got enough HW to do basic testing and people like spacey are really helpful	06:49
pips1	ogra, Kamion will merge some translations that he forgot...	06:50
ogra	yep, i saw	06:50
ogra	:)	06:50
pips1	ok, need to run, see you!	06:50
ogra	bye, and thanks :)	06:51
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mwright1night	hello	07:13
mwright1night	Is the new LTSP 4.2 going to be in edubuntu now that the date has been pushed out to 1st Jun	07:13
mwright1night	4.2 should be released around April 15	07:14
ogra	mwright1night, we ship the ltsp muecow (4.2) implementation since breezy	07:15
ogra	debian just adopted our packages to etch and backports them to sarge	07:17
ogra	if you want to use ltsp.org 4.2 (and loose upgradeability through that), you are free to do so, but we'll ship the muecow implementation ...	07:18
ogra	they are developed very close to each other (i work with jim mc quillian and scott balneaves)	07:19
mwright1night	orgra yes I am aware	07:27
mwright1night	what I am trying to understand is, will the new local devices support and local apps support from the main tree 4.2 be in the dapper drake releasE?	07:27
ogra	nope	07:27
ogra	we postponed that to dapper+1	07:27
ogra	i personally dont like the lbus approach, but jim and scott had no dbus specialist around ...	07:28
ogra	the right way will be to add X transport to dbus, so you can just attach it to the established ssh tunnel ..	07:29
ogra	that needs to be specced out very good, we didnt quite make it at the conference in montreal ...	07:29
mwright1night	will jim change if you get the right people to put it together	07:33
mwright1night	and go dbus	07:33
mwright1night	I actually don't know what lbus vs dbus is actually	07:33
ogra	dbus is the communication system the gnome apps use	07:33
mwright1night	and lbus is?	07:34
ogra	its already established in an ubuntu desktop session	07:34
ogra	and lbus is a reimplementation of the dbus protocol to do the communication between server and client for the mount process	07:34
ogra	if i plug in a camera in ubuntu, the kernel and udev wil automatically create a device in /dev ...	07:35
ogra	to get the server to mount it, the server needs to know that device just appeared	07:35
ogra	so lbus sends a notification from the client to the server	07:36
ogra	which then executes a mount of the device over the network ...	07:36
ogra	ubuntu ltsp already uses a ssh tunnel to do the X forwarding, and the desktop already uses dbus for the apps ...	07:37
ogra	the idea is to attach dbus to both sides of the tunnel and let the communication go in there instead of opening an extra port (lbus) and have communication via an additional channel	07:37
ogra	jim might not take that path, since i dont know if he can be sure to have dbus available on all desktops ...	07:38
ogra	the ubuntu approach is far more intergrated into the system, ltsp.org 4.2 is for all distros ...	07:39
ogra	they use the same base ... but with ltsp.org you will never be able to upgrade right away...	07:39
mwright1night	nice approach	07:39
mwright1night	seems like the cleanest option	07:39
mwright1night	we are FC4 moving to FC5 this weekend.	07:40
ogra	i have some other things in mind that go a completely different path ... but lest see ...	07:40
mwright1night	I am waiting for my moment to move to ubuntu	07:40
ogra	what hinders you ?	07:40
mwright1night	if you get this dbus architecture then it is another compelling reason	07:40
mwright1night	not much now, previously things did.	07:41
ogra	ah	07:41
mwright1night	I will definitely do it at the end of the year, with the next version	07:41
mwright1night	I said that about Dapper Drake as well	07:41
mwright1night	and slipped on that	07:41
mwright1night	what kind of paper do you use where you live?	07:41
mwright1night	A4 or Letter?	07:41
ogra	A4	07:42
ogra	doesnt all of the world apart from the US use A4 ?	07:42
mwright1night	Have you noticed the bug in Firefox where it won't remember the Paper setting, or read the global setting?	07:42
mwright1night	Probably.	07:42
ogra	nope, i never print from firefox ...	07:42
ogra	at least its ages ago i did it the last time	07:42
mwright1night	so you get stuck on American Letter. To make the system acceptable we had to purchase a new printer that had an A4/Letter auto override	07:43
ogra	nah, there must be a fix	07:43
mwright1night	that is such a bad usability bug, it's upstream.. I am planning on logging it in the ubuntu bug tracking system cuase the Fedora people haven't cared about it for 1.5 years that I've been harassing them over it	07:43
mwright1night	There is not.. I'm serious	07:43
ogra	and it happens in ubuntu as well ?	07:44
mwright1night	I will test dapper drake, and if it's fixed I'll flame the Redhat guys to fix it	07:44
mwright1night	did happen in Breezy	07:44
mwright1night	I gave away my Dapper drake test cd the other day	07:44
mwright1night	anyway after the FC5 upgrade, because things are getting so good on the desktop, and we are having so few issues now, I will log any long standing bugs in multiple distributions bugzilla's	07:45
mwright1night	as they have different priorities -- ubuntu cares much more about usability than redhat people in my experience	07:45
ogra	:)	07:45
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DeMoNSeEd	ogra are you around	08:50
ogra	DeMoNSeEd, yes, but a bit busy, preparing for a meeting in 10 min	08:51
DeMoNSeEd	k	08:51
DeMoNSeEd	it's just a quickie, GCompris runs super now	08:51
ogra	great :)	08:52
DeMoNSeEd	nut can't seem to get anything but a smartass answer in ubuntu proper room about the multiple floppy thing, i edited fstab and media, but floppy still won't mount, what else do i need to do, getting the suggestion in buntu room of ,"just don't use floppies", just doesn't cut it	08:53
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LaserJock	ogra: do you always have edubuntu meetings at the same time?	08:54
ogra	LaserJock, yep	08:54
ogra	12:00 UTC on wednesdays	08:55
LaserJock	darn	08:55
DeMoNSeEd	are they aware of this multiple floppy bug?	08:55
LaserJock	does Edubuntu have any science minded people on board?	09:03
ogra	there are some on the ML	09:03
LaserJock	ogra: ok, any MOTUs or are you pretty much it?	09:04
ogra	and the clear target is to grow big enough at some point that you can set up a whole university with it	09:04
ogra	i'm pretty much it :)	09:04
LaserJock	ok, I'm just trying to gauge need, etc. so I can plan my dapper+1 work ;-)	09:05
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DeMoNSeEd	does anyone know the cure for the multiple flopy thing	09:07
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DeMoNSeEd	*floppy	09:07
ogra	LaserJock, i'd definately like to have the mentioned metapackages in dapper+1 in any case, i'm fine doing them myself if you dont want, what i need is someone with a deeper knowledge of the apps to tell me what is good to include and what not :)	09:08
LaserJock	ogra: well, I'	09:09
LaserJock	I'm saying I might be interested in getting more involved with edubuntu ;-)	09:09
ogra	:)))	09:10
DeMoNSeEd	anyone?	09:11
LaserJock	especially if I can integrate it with my MOTUScience work	09:11
ogra	(sorry, dapper dev meeting currently)	09:12
LaserJock	DeMoNSeEd: did you try #ubuntu+1 ?	09:14
DeMoNSeEd	what is that	09:14
DeMoNSeEd	a help room	09:14
LaserJock	the irc channel for Dapper support, I think	09:14
DeMoNSeEd	oh, cool, i had no idea of it, ty	09:14
DeMoNSeEd	it's odd as i have dapper on 2 machines here, 1 is fine, but on this machine here, i end up showing 7 floppies, none of which will mount	09:15
ogra	there is a bug somewhere in launchpad about it ...	09:16
DeMoNSeEd	woulda been nice if they had least told me that	09:16
LaserJock	who?	09:16
DeMoNSeEd	anyone in ubuntu proper room	09:17
DeMoNSeEd	then i'd know that it was to be fixed	09:17
LaserJock	well, they have to know it to tell you ;-)	09:17
DeMoNSeEd	k, i'll try that room for a quick fix for now, i musta missed something after editing fstab and /media	09:18
DeMoNSeEd	i know, when i inquired, i got backm maybe we do know or maybe we don't, coy answers are sometimes the rule	09:19
DeMoNSeEd	not helpful though	09:19
DeMoNSeEd	k, thanks for the room tip	09:19
LaserJock	np	09:19
DeMoNSeEd	LaserJock, do you know off hand if i'll be able to order cd's of Edubuntu as I do in the case of Ubuntu?	09:26
ogra	for dapper, yes	09:26
DeMoNSeEd	cool, I've got 2 schols "interested", so it's looking good, need to get a bug free...or close to...setup before i make a presentation, being able to give then a pro set of cd's will be a great help.....the stigma of free software is not helped by homemade cd's	09:28
DeMoNSeEd	*schools	09:28
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