siretartSeveas: right. thats the bit that needs further testing12:02
Seveasok, so I'll be offline a bit longer to test both (I'll reboot)12:03
Luresiretart: tried new package - NM 0.6.1 still works with it ;-)12:06
siretartLure: that would have surprised me, because the only changes where in the startup script, which nm doesn't use anyway :)12:07
Keybuksiretart: what's the wpa-conf thing supposed to *do*12:07
seb128$  nm -D --demangle /usr/lib/firefox/libxpcom_core.so | grep 'nsAString_internal()'12:08
seb12800087522 T nsAString_internal::~nsAString_internal()12:08
seb128000874ea T nsAString_internal::~nsAString_internal()12:08
Luresiretart: where is new TYPE= field documented?12:08
seb128does anybody knows if that's normal?12:08
siretartKeybuk: it basically chooses which of the 3 modes is going to be used12:08
seb128how can the same symbol be defined twice?12:08
Keybuksiretart: except it only switches between two of them, no?12:08
siretartseb128: perhaps a versioned symbol?12:08
siretartKeybuk: yes, mode 3 is independent from ifupdown12:09
seb128why would versionning make it defined twice?12:09
siretartKeybuk: for nm, I think you wouldn't want to touch any wpasupplicant configuration at all. mode 1 is nice if you want to hack up gnome-system-admin or something.12:11
siretartwell, okay, the user could shoot himself in the foot by activating the supplicant there and trying to use nm12:11
siretartin this case you would have 2 supplicants running compating after the interface. but hey..12:12
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Seveassiretart, it's very broken 12:13
siretartfuck 12:13
Seveaslink mode doesn't work at all due to syntax errors, and the stop action makes lsb_logging complain about integer argument required12:13
HrdwrBoBthe whole thing is utterly broken :/12:13
Seveas * Stopping wpa_supplicant...12:13
Seveas/etc/lsb-base-logging.sh: line 96: [: done.: integer expression expected12:13
Seveas/etc/lsb-base-logging.sh: line 116: [: done.: integer expression expected12:13
Seveas   ...fail!12:13
Seveas/etc/lsb-base-logging.sh: line 122: return: done.: numeric argument required12:13
Seveasinvoke-rc.d: initscript wpasupplicant, action "stop" failed.12:13
siretartargl, I didn't upload my latest deb12:14
seb128doko: around?12:14
siretartwill upgrade my wlan here to wpa tomorrow and to extensively testing12:14
dokoseb128: for you?12:14
seb128doko: no, just for a question :p12:15
seb128doko: 12:15
Seveassiretart, could you please upload the latest so it won't break ^_^12:15
seb128$  nm -D --demangle /usr/lib/firefox/libxpcom_core.so | grep 'nsAString_internal()'12:15
seb12800087522 T nsAString_internal::~nsAString_internal()12:15
seb128000874ea T nsAString_internal::~nsAString_internal()12:15
seb128doko: is that something normal or buggish?12:15
siretartSeveas: on my way12:15
seb128doko: same symbol defined twice12:15
dokoseb128: in the same object file?12:16
seb128doko: cf the command12:16
seb128doko: that's a nm -D --demangle on /usr/lib/firefox/libxpcom_core.so12:16
dokohmm, can't see these in the mozilla libs 12:18
dokonm -D --demangle /usr/lib/firefox/libxpcom.so|grep  nsAString_internal doesn't show anything12:20
dokowhich architecture is this?12:20
siretartSeveas: ok, the syntax foo should be fixed now12:21
Seveasdennis@mirage:~$ nm -D --demangle /usr/lib/firefox/libxpcom.so | grep  ns12:21
Seveas0000168c T NS_GetFrozenFunctions12:21
seb128doko: you made a typoe12:21
Seveassiretart, gracias12:21
seb128doko: _core.so12:21
seb128doko: wrong file12:21
seb128Seveas: same12:21
Seveasseb128, there are more doubles 12:23
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SeveasInstalling new version of config file /etc/init.d/wpasupplicant ...12:24
seb128Seveas: the question is if that's normal to get dups, the number is an another one :p12:24
Seveassince when is an init script a config file?12:24
Seveas(I might go offline, testing siretarts madness :))12:25
siretartSeveas: everything below /etc/ is a conffile by default in recent debhelper versions12:25
=== siretart giggles
seb128Seveas: why shouldn't your init changes be respected? :)12:25
dokohmm, strange, and none is a weak symbol12:28
dokoand mozilla-dev doesn't have this symbol at all12:29
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Seveazsiretart, other than my network (either router or card) going bananas if I do the ifupdown dance to often too fast (which sadly is normal) it works like a charm in both link and daemon mode12:32
Keybukwpa still working with madwifi for me12:33
siretartSeveas: right, I noticed that as well12:34
siretartok. so didn't have that much crack. thanks for testing12:34
Seveassiretart, but this has always been the case so it's not new to this version12:34
Seveassomehow the GROUP_HANDSHAKE is failing12:34
siretartSeveas: at the testplace, I noticed that authentication took a veeery long time :/12:35
seb128doko: that's a --demangle 12:35
seb128doko: thanks to jbailey which made me try without it :p12:36
Seveassiretart, actually, it seemed to be much quicker here 12:36
seb128doko: that's a --demangle bug I mean12:36
siretartwell, one independent tester says its okay. Keybuk: shall I upload to dapper to get broader testing?12:38
Keybuksiretart: I've uploaded already12:39
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siretartoh. ok12:39
Keybukwill probably upset the universe users, of course12:40
Keybukbut it's "fit for main" now imo12:40
siretartso gmane seems to have a significant lag for dapper-changes. good to know12:40
Keybuknot realluy12:41
siretartah, there it is12:41
KeybukI don't know when mails go to the -changes list12:41
siretartwpasupplicant in /sbin?!12:42
Keybukotherwise how you going to mount your NFS /usr over a WPA network? :p12:42
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siretartwhy not directly in early userspace :p 12:42
Keybukmore pointedly, wpa_supplicant is started by ifup, which is started by udev12:42
Keybukall of which are before /usr is available12:43
Keybukso our policy is that anything related must be in /sbin12:43
HrdwrBoBanyone using NFS /usr on a wireless machine is inviting danger anyway12:43
siretartso you could nfsroot it via wpasecured network :)12:43
HrdwrBoBbut still a fair point12:43
KeybukHrdwrBoB: actually, that's a reasonably far-out use case12:43
Keybukthe real problem would be anyone with /usr on a different filesystem wouldn't get their network device brought up :p12:43
siretartKeybuk: do you think it would be reasonable for debian as well to have them in /sbin rather than /usr/sbin?12:44
Keybukyes; your experimental packages already had that change, btw12:45
KeybukI just double-honoured it12:45
siretartright, but it isn't uploaded yet, after all12:45
Keybukthough the Debian boot sequence is rather different from ours12:45
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KeybukI also changed the pre-up script slightly; wpa-conf didn't make much sense to me, so I made it just start wpa_supplicant if *any* wpa-* option was given12:46
Keybukas that kinda implies the mode12:46
KeybukI foresaw a hundred "you forgot to also put 'wpa-conf managed' in there too" bugs12:46
Keybukor "I put 'wpa-conf Managed' and it didn't work" bugs12:46
siretarthm. I see12:47
Keybukwill see how it goes12:47
siretartlets see how our users react on this. 12:47
KeybukI like it anyway, it's exactly how I'd've written it12:47
Keybukand it does feel natural12:48
Keybukauto eth112:48
Keybukiface eth1 inet dhcp12:48
Keybuk    wpa-driver madwifi12:48
Keybuk    wpa-ssid linksys12:48
Keybuk    wpa-psk blahblahblah12:48
siretartwhat I don't like about the current solution is that everything is horribly case sensitive and you got NO debugging aid at all12:48
siretartbut well, we'll see how much that will bite future bug submitters12:49
KeybukI would hope most people editing config files are aware that UNIX is generally case sensitive12:49
Keybukie. you can't put "IFACE" in that file for a start <g>12:50
siretartfor my internet cafe, this is a real world example:12:52
siretartiface ath0 inet dhcp12:52
siretart  wpa-key-mgmt WPA-EAP12:52
siretart  wpa-eap PEAP12:52
siretart  wpa-identity rt12:52
siretart  wpa-password foobar12:52
siretart(plus the obvious wpa-driver and essid stuff) - especially that part with key-mgmt and eap having to be UPPERCASE has bitten me12:53
KeybukI don't really understand wpa enough to know the difference between psk and password12:53
Keybukwhat is it?12:53
siretartthere are over a dozen variants of doing wpa. the easy ones are called wpa-psk. you can do that with TKIP (wpa1) or RSN(using aes, sometimes called wpa2)12:54
siretartthe more interesting ones are called nowadays 'wpa-enterprise' this involves authentication agains radius servers12:54
siretartin that setup, we have a freeradius server authenticating against a mysql database12:55
xhakersiretart, the ones you got a user/password to get in?12:55
siretartxhaker: sorry?12:55
Keybukah, and thus the identity/password pair?12:55
xhakerwpa-enterprise.. uses certs and user/password authentication12:56
siretartKeybuk: right. these credentials are presented to the radius server, which itself consults something else12:56
siretartxhaker: right12:56
siretartKeybuk: more advanced setups use a PKI infrastructure and x509 certificates12:56
j^will this madness be wired to network-admin?12:57
siretartagain using freeradius, which happens to hand out crypto/key material suitable for commen nas implementations around12:57
xhakertried that at my university today.. it wouldn't allow me to login though.. the AP's are there.. but i guess they haven't that connected to something yet12:57
siretartj^: well, it shouldn't be hard, now that we have wpasupplicant with ifupdown integration in dapper :)12:58
siretartj^: but we are after feature freeze after all12:58
j^siretart it took a year to get WEP right in network-admin so i guess by that time NetworkAdmin should be all you need12:59
siretartj^: wep and this one look quite similar. when I find some time, perhaps I can hack on a patch for that12:59
=== Keybuk wonders what nm-crash-logger is supposed to do
=== j^ tries to find out why NM 0.6 breakes orinoco_pci/hostap_pci
=== siretart gets some sleep. cu tomorrow!
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Robot101who is responsible for CUPS in dapper?01:08
Robot101yay for a) adding manufacturer autodetection from the USB info01:09
Robot101and b) moving half the useful HP printer drivers into a pseudo-manufacturer called HP (HPLIP)01:09
Robot101meaning that it detects that I have a HP Deskjet 5740 and forwards me straight to a list where my printer does not appear01:09
Robot101Excellent communicateur  l'humour ravageur, les confrences de Jeff Waugh sont clbres pour la quantit d'interjections que l'on peut y trouver :  Rock 'n' roll ,  Awesome! Awesome! .01:11
Robot101now it's cone into an infinite loop01:12
Robot101select(1024, [0 1 6 7 8 9] , [7] , NULL, {1, 0}) = 1 (out [7] , left {1, 0})01:12
Robot101time(NULL)                              = 114315914001:12
=== Robot101 cries
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SeveasRobot101, ranting won't help - filing a bug will01:14
Robot101I will look at it more closely tomorrow, but I'm too tired now to file a useful one... I just wanted to print something01:15
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UbugtuMalone bug 33545 in cupsys "cupsd hangs when HP printer is added with web interface" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  01:22
Robot101it seems to be that01:22
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raphinkanyone with a powerbook having problem to suspend to ram ?01:42
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hyperactivecrondcan we _not_ make ubotu join #debian-bots?01:46
hyperactivecrondidk it seems that we're too conforming if we make him /join #debian... ubugtu and ubuntulog dont01:46
wasabi_Is ubuntu not supposed ot mount usbfs?02:13
desrtwasabi_; see /dev/bus/usb/...02:16
wasabi_Oh it's just in a different location.02:18
wasabi_Hmm. Possibilty of mounting it in both places for legacy apps, perhaps?02:19
wasabi_/proc/bus/usb, etc.02:19
Keybuklegacy apps won't work because the permissions will be wrong02:23
Keybukso no real point mounting it02:23
Keybukbetter to get the apps fixed02:23
wasabi_Sure, if all those apps are open source. ;)02:24
wasabi_no biggy to do it manually, thx. ;)02:24
Gwynnmako: are you available for a talk?02:25
Keybuk/dev/bus/usb != /proc/bus/usb02:27
Keybuk/dev/bus/usb contains device nodes created and managed by udev using events from the usb_device subsystem02:27
Keybuk/proc/bus/usb is a hacky kernel pseudo-filesystem02:27
Keybukyou can always mount it if you need it, but you'll need to chmod/chown things02:28
Keybuksiretart: ping?02:37
Keybuk_ion: ping?02:38
_ionkeybuk: pong02:38
Keybuk_ion: I may be just being stupid here ... but how does nm-applet request a WPA key? :)02:38
Keybukit says in the log that "NO valid key exists New key needed" and just sits there for a bit before giving up02:38
_ionI haven't looked at how n-m does WPA stuff _at all_. :-) I don't have a WPA network.02:39
_ionMy machine is connected only via a wired network.02:39
ajmitchfor me, it just came up with a dialog to enter the key02:41
ajmitch& then it just worked :)02:41
Keybukit came up with a dialog on the 11th attempt02:41
Keybukand now always does02:41
Keybuk"took too long"02:42
j^Keybuk there is some issue with old passwords saved in the keyring02:42
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KeybukI do dislike how there's no way for gnome-keyring to have a "yeah, always let nm-applet have access"02:44
Keybuklibnotify-WARNING **: Received unknown action default02:47
j^Keybuk absolutly there should be a keyring that is opened than logging in02:47
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j^gnome bug 32692502:48
UbugtuGnome bug 326925 in general "need for a keyring that is unlocked than logging in" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://bugs.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=32692502:48
Keybukclearly I am Mr Stupid02:49
Keybukbecause I cannot get NM and WPA to play nice02:49
KeybukI put in my WPA key, it associates and disassociates for a while02:49
Keybukthen gives up02:49
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j^which driver?02:50
j^hm, latest kernel + the patch that is in the unofficial NM should work02:51
j^dont have one though02:51
Keybukit works if I run wpa_supplicant myself02:51
Keybukit's just NM's WPA puppetry02:51
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tsenghm, is radeon oss broken for everyone?02:52
j^Are you using madwifi drivers, of the madwifi-ng drivers?02:53
j^wpa_supplicant must be compiled for one or the other, and right now its02:53
j^compiled for madwifi-ng.02:53
Keybukmadwifi drivers02:53
=== Keybuk tries without the "community" workarounds patch
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KeybukWEP works at least03:20
KeybukMar 24 02:19:52 quest cupsd: Unable to open log file "/var/log/cups/error_log" - Permission denied03:20
Keybukmy gods, cups is having a spasm03:20
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wasabi_I like how you say "gods."03:28
_ionBattlestar Galactica. :-)03:29
Keybuktoo much Terry Pratchett, I suspect03:29
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Burgundaviaok _ion, Pygi, you are gods among men. I salut you for your NM work03:53
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desrtKeybuk; did you say wpa nm?03:54
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Keybukdesrt: I said wpa-doesn't-work-for-me nm03:58
Keybukbut yesx03:58
Keybukis in the archive03:58
=== desrt waits pateiently
desrtpatiently too03:58
Keybukok, so I have Chicken, Asparagus, Sweetcorn and Pasta04:00
Keybukmaybe I shouldn't cook at 3am04:00
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=== Amaranth tries to think of something you could make out of that
desrtif you have some alfrado sauce then that's one hell of a meal04:01
Amaranthdo you have any cream of chicken?04:01
Amaranthor that04:01
Amaranthi was going for the ghetto version :)04:01
desrtpasta+whitesauce+asparagus+chicken is practically meant to be04:02
KeybukI'm avoiding the sauce for experimental purposes04:03
Keybukand I-don't-have-any-in purposes04:03
KeybukAmaranth: that's what I'm having; added herbs and oil to make a meal04:03
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Keybukactually tastes rather scrummy04:03
AmaranthKeybuk: cream of chicken?04:03
desrtok.  so seriously04:04
desrtwhat's nfs that's not nfs?04:04
desrtall of these lustre/afs/whatever filesystems are way overkill04:04
mjg59desrt: The only simple, transparent Unix networking file system is nfs04:04
desrtthis is really an area that needs improvement!04:05
mjg59If you don't like nfs, then what you choose depends on what you're trying to do04:05
mjg59Firstly, what's up with nfs?04:05
desrti want to mount a bunch of user homedirectories on a bunch of machines in a reasonably trusted environment04:05
mjg59Easiest alternative is cifs04:05
mjg59Per-user auth, unix semantics04:05
desrtper-user auth is out of the question04:06
desrti want it to always be there04:06
desrtnot just when people log in04:06
mjg59Then nfs is the answer04:06
mjg59What's inadequate about nfs?04:06
desrti guess i'd better figure out how to effectively firewall it then04:06
desrtthe nfs server is semi-outward-facing04:06
mjg59If all else fails, do nfs over VPN04:06
mjg59Or move to nfs404:07
desrtmjg59; all the machines share ethernet04:07
mjg59Yeah. You can do a VPN over that, surely?04:07
mjg59If you're mounting stuff, you have to trust each of those machines04:07
desrtoh.  i see what you're saying04:07
desrti don't need this much security04:07
mjg59But you don't have to trust the ethernet04:07
mjg59Just firewall out access to the portmapper and mountd04:08
desrti'm really just worried about effectively firewalling the 1000 (occasionally semi-randomly assigned) ports it opens04:08
mjg59Though nfs (in theory) can turn up on any port, in practice it's always the same one04:08
desrtportmapper is infuriating04:08
desrtit has this -i open that totally fails to work in a useful way04:08
desrt-i -i
desrtyou might expect this to do something sane... but it actually just binds to the last interface you give04:09
desrtmaking it impossible to have it bound to (required for services to register) and a specific external interface at the same time without binding to INADDR_ANY04:09
mjg59iptables -A INPUT -s --dport 111 -j DENY04:09
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desrti've already done this04:10
mjg59Or just use tcpwrappers04:10
mjg59(Since if you can't trust that, we're all doomed anyway)04:10
desrti have listeners also on tcp/2049, 965, 3306, 953, 41115, 924, udp/2049, 32772, 32784, 918, 921, 1194, 962, 6704:11
mjg59That's fun04:11
desrtand i think that some of these are from portmap/nfs/whatever04:11
mjg59What's bound to them?04:11
mjg59(lsof -i FTW)04:11
desrtnetstat -p :)04:11
mjg59Well, or that04:11
mjg59You should have rpc.mountd and rpc.statd (possibly rpc.lockd)04:11
desrtmostly rpc.mountd and rpc.statd04:11
mjg59Again, easiest is just to tcpwrappers them out04:12
desrti've already done that too04:12
=== desrt has a vague distrust for tcpwrappers
mjg59Sounds pretty secure, then04:12
desrtmuh.  guess i'm fine04:12
mjg59Seriously, if tcpwrappers is broken, so is so much of the internet that they won't be hitting you first04:12
desrti imagine it'd be pretty hard to exploit tcpwrappers04:13
mjg59It's pretty simple code, and it's been checked a lot04:13
desrtnot to mention it doesn't listen to them at all04:13
desrtit's just like "you?  hmm. no."04:13
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mjg59Wow. Aspirin is, like, the best thing ever04:15
desrtah.  interesting.  the kernel is listening on tcp and udp.  this is what bothers me most :)04:15
desrtthis seems to be static though.. it's listed in /etc/services as 'nfs'04:15
=== desrt adds to firewall
mjg59I generally forget that these things actually work04:16
=== mjg59 revels in his newfound ability to swallow
mjg59Oh, wait. That sounds quite bad.04:16
desrtdon't worry.  we know you're just a pill swallower04:17
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Amaranthreal aspirin is worthless04:40
Amaranthyou need 2000 mg of ibuprofen04:40
KeybukAmaranth: some people don't react to ibuprofen04:51
Keybuksome do04:51
Keybukdepends whether the complaint is due to inflammation as well04:51
Amaranthhydracodone (sp?) then? :)04:51
LaserJockhmm, for my wife asprin works but ibuprofen doesn't do anything04:54
mhzTheMuso: ping05:01
mhzTheMuso: thx for the email05:01
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LaserJockis there some recommendation about using "dfsg" in either the package name or version for package that have non-free parts removed?05:29
fabbionemorning guys05:32
G0SUBLaserJock: it's mostly appended to the version IIRC05:32
nictukufabbione, hi05:41
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minghuaG0SUB: make would be an exception (the source package is make-dfsg)05:46
G0SUBminghua: the gfdl issue?05:46
G0SUBminghua: has the make package been updated yet? IIRC no05:47
minghuaG0SUB: you are right.  but it's make-dfsg in debian already05:48
G0SUBokay, great05:48
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greeboCan some canonical person please tell warthogs that Jeff (jdub) has been offline since 3am, and the fault has been logged with Telstra (very few Canonical people in Sydney at the moment so he couldn't call them)06:08
fabbionegreebo: thanks06:08
fabbione<-will do06:08
greebofabbione, thankyou06:08
fabbionegreebo: done06:09
fabbionehe can go back to sleep now ;)06:09
greebofabbione, heh, he will have dinner in a few hours, no sleeping just yet ;)06:10
fabbionegreebo: afternoon nap? :)06:11
greeboheh :) siesta is always an option!06:11
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janimoLathiat: ping08:00
sladenmjg59: ACPI on HP/Compaqs seem to have broken.  This should be handled internally in the DSDT---did a interpreter change or similar?08:01
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pittiGood morning08:02
Lathiatjanimo: pong08:07
janimoLathiat: what is the status of avahi in dapper?08:07
janimoI see zeroconf spec was deferred08:07
Lathiatjanimo: spec delayed, avahi was put in main, not installed by default08:07
Lathiatno gui for configuring it08:07
Lathiatthat'l be done as part of zeroconf in dapper+108:07
janimoLathiat: so how can one try it out now?08:08
Lathiatjanimo: apt-get install avahi-daemon08:08
janimocan nautilus use it to discover samba shares for example?08:08
janimoLathiat: I have it installed just wondering how to test it best08:08
janimosince I am entirely new to it08:08
janimognome app seem to all link to avahi08:08
janimoso I suppose even if there's no gui one can use it somehow08:09
janimois the reason for spec delay incompleteness of avahi in some way?08:10
janimoLathiat: so I am interested mostly in the client part now08:10
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mdkewhat's the correct way to enable flash in firefox on dapper? We refer to an absent package in the documentation at the moment08:40
mdke(flashplayer-mozilla, which seems to have disappeared from multiverse)08:41
Lathiati can see it08:41
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mdkeLathiat, http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.ubuntu.doc/522008:43
Seveasmdke, flashplugin-nonfree?08:44
mdkeSeveas, right, that's what the poster says in that post, except he says it doesn't work08:44
Seveaswffm - but it downloads things from an external server which of course is unreliable08:45
mdkeSeveas, it works for you?08:45
Seveasworked a few weeks ago - didn't try since08:46
mdkeI'll have a go08:46
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mdkedoesn't work08:51
mdkeif anyone knows how to get flash support, please highlight me, and we'll add it to the documentation08:52
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robitaillemdke: download the tar file from macromedia web site, untar it, copy the two files to your plugins directory in .mozilla.  Not really user friendly, and use the CLI, but it works :)08:57
mdkewe'll fall back to that if there isn't a package, I guess08:57
robitaillesomeone could probably write a small script, including scraping from the macromedia web site the link to the latest tar file available.08:58
jsgotangcoits already a script08:58
jsgotangcoits not even a complicated script08:58
infinityOr we could get explicit permission from Macromedia to redistribute in multiverse.08:58
infinity(which we used to do without permission)08:59
mdkeah, hence the package disappearing08:59
infinityHaving installer packages that break a few months after release is always teh suck.08:59
robitailleor someone could resync with the latest DEbian package.  I thought there was request on the motu list about this08:59
mdkeso what does the flashplugin-nonfree package do?08:59
infinityrobitaille: Yes, but that doesn't solve anything in the long term, just for now.08:59
mdkethat's in the archive08:59
robitaillewould solve the security issue with the older flash we try to ship in all the ubuntu version since Warty08:59
infinitymdke: flashplugin-nonfree is an "installer package" that downloads from macromedia and installs.09:00
robitailleinfinity:  long term is to hope that a free solution will work correctly for joe user09:00
infinitymdke: flashplayer-mozilla was a package that actually shipped the biaries from our archive (so didn't rely on their website not breaking)09:00
infinityrobitaille: That's longer term.  I'm talking "for the dapper cycle", since we're not going to go slipping new Flash player (free or not) into dapper after it releases.09:01
mdkei tried installing it from within firefox, that failed too09:01
mdkelots of people will try that, because you only notice its absence when you get those "Missing Plugin" boxes09:01
robitaillemdke:  that should work...it worked for me a few weeks back.09:01
infinityHow does it fail when you install it from firefox?09:01
jsgotangcoit downloads but doesn't install09:02
mdkeinfinity, i don't know. It downloads for a while, gives me a license agreement, then says "Installation failed"09:02
robitailleinfinity:  for dapper, what's wrong with the latest DEbian package?09:02
infinityrobitaille: That it will stop working a month after we release?09:02
robitaillethen put the next version in dapper-update09:02
mdkeit only lasts a month?09:03
infinitymdke: No, that's a hypothetical.  As in "they could move the files on their website in a month"09:03
infinityInstaller packages are notoriously unreliable and unsuitable for stable releases, IMO.09:03
mdkeoh, that's an installer thing too09:03
robitaille6.0.25 worked for quite a while...it's only semi recently that things started to break.09:03
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mdkeinfinity, i think the website uses a generic filename though, rather than a version number in the filename, so it might not break09:04
infinityAnd Macromedia /does/ hand out redistribution licenses like they're candy, so I'm not sure why no one's emailed them for one (which we could then apply to put flashplayer-mozilla back in multiverse)09:04
mdkebut still, the website itself might break09:04
Pygi_ion: around?09:04
mdkeinfinity, do you fancy pinging someone official to mail them?09:05
robitailleon the other side, we are talking about a multiverse package.  it breaks, it breaks; nobody is promising anything to anyone.  But it would be nice if it worked for at least JUne 2006 :)09:05
infinityWell, I still have breezy's flashplayer-mozilla installed.  Didn't even notice it had been removed. :)09:05
infinityThat works fine.09:05
mdkeme too09:05
infinityOddly enough, my name's the last one on the changelog too.09:06
infinityCould explain why I have it installed. :)09:06
mdkethen you get to fix it!09:06
mdkei saw that rule somewhere09:07
infinityAnyhow, I could mail them as an Ubuntu community representative, and if getting a license on behalf of Ubuntu doesn't cut it for them, can see if they're interested in granting a distribution license to Canonical instead.09:07
mdkesounds great09:07
infinitymdke: Yeah, I'm exempt from the rule, since I upload EVERYONE's packages. :)09:07
mdkeinfinity, no, that just means you get to fix everything09:08
infinityIf I suffered from touched-it-last maintenance, I'd maintain the whole dist by now.09:08
Mithrandirinfinity: you don't?09:08
infinityMithrandir: Shh.  I'm trying to put a happy spin on things and pretend for a moment that my life doesn't suck.09:08
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infinitysladen: Around?09:23
PygiKeybuk: here?09:24
sladeninfinity: yup09:25
JaneWsladen: ping09:26
sladenJaneW: pong09:26
JaneWsladen: did you receive my laptop testing team mail? 9I think you were one of the ones that got mail-bombed with the message - sorry about that)09:26
JaneWsladen: I have to check in with all testers to make sure that they are still actively testing and on track09:27
sladenJaneW: yup, I queried you on IRC about the multiple copies.  I'll just answer the first one if you want:)09:27
JaneWsladen: again I am sorry, the messages refused to send, and I was creating a new one and then everything suddenly went - it was stupid09:28
sladenJaneW: I got one, and then there was a second one CC'ed to me, mjg59, corey09:28
JaneWsladen: yes one response with suffice ;)09:28
JaneWunless you want to get me back ;)09:28
JaneWsiretart: ping09:29
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siretartJaneW: pong09:29
JaneWLathiat: ping09:29
infinitysladen: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-driver-i810/+bug/3149909:29
JaneWsiretart: what I said to sladen...did you receive my laptop testing team mail? (sorry if you got mail-bombed with the message)09:29
siretartJaneW: yes, I received your message09:29
UbugtuMalone bug 31499 in xserver-xorg-driver-i810 "no dri with xorg 7.0 on Dapper" [Normal,Needs info]  09:29
infinitysladen: The last comment on that bug is pretty convinced you just broke DRI for him with your mesa upload.09:30
LathiatJaneW: pong09:30
siretartJaneW: I'm still testing the laptop, but my wiki is at flight-4, due to my last exam this week. I'll get it updated to flight-5 asap. 09:30
sladenUbugtu: why are you not providing clickable URLs anymore09:30
JaneWLathiat: did you receive my laptop testing team mail? (sorry if you got mail-bombed with the message)09:30
JaneWsiretart: ok great thanks09:30
Mithrandirsiretart: flight-6 is on Wednesday, you know, so you better get rolling. ;-)09:31
siretartJaneW: the laptop is in general fine, there are issues with suspend to ram, and some hotkeys, but nothing serious09:31
Lathiatnope sorry09:31
JaneWsiretart: we were just concerned that some people might have stoped testing altogether09:31
=== Lathiat looks
simiraMithrandir: don't work so fast! I can't keep up!09:31
JaneWsiretart: I'll list you as compliant09:31
infinitysladen: It was responding to a clickable URL I pasted two lines up. :)09:31
siretartJaneW: no, I didn't stop at all. I needed to pause for some weeks for my exam09:31
LathiatJaneW: i havent actually09:31
LathiatJaneW: whered you send it?09:31
siretartMithrandir: thanks for notice :)09:31
JaneWLathiat: I will check and resend...09:32
Lathiatalso yeh i havent been updating the wiki, i do test it tho :)09:32
Lathiatif thats what your wondering09:32
Lathiati should update it09:32
JaneWLathiat: It went to lathiat@bur.st09:33
sladeninfinity: funky, ta.  That set (kernel, mesa, -driver-i810, discover1-data) were basically adding additional PCI IDs09:33
=== StevenK wonders about the about-ubuntu spec.
JaneWLathiat: done - you may have spam filtered it... ;)09:35
Lathiati got that one09:35
LathiatJaneW: i'll do a wiki update this weekend09:36
JaneWLathiat: ty :)09:36
Lathiatno real issues with my laptop a-t-m tho, other than the bug reports im already participating in09:36
Lathiate.g. the synaptics/alps bug09:36
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JaneWdoes anyone know Niall Sheridan ?09:37
JaneWhim and kokey are the only 2 unaccounted for now.09:37
JaneWkoke I mean (kokey is another guy)09:37
sladenJaneW: don't you have their details on file from when you posted the machines out?09:41
JaneWsladen: well I didn;t post the machines out...09:42
JaneWsladen: I dstarted with the wiki table and now I have Claire's list09:42
JaneWsladen: so I do have an e-mail address for him, but he hasn't responded09:42
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dholbachgood morning09:47
hungerDo we really need ifrename in the resume scripts now that udev does that anyway?09:47
Pygimornin' dholbach09:48
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dholbachheya Pygi09:48
seb128fabbione: do you have a patch of that change you did to glib? Debian could use the same change probably?09:49
fabbioneseb128: uh no.. it's just a change in debian/rules09:49
seb128hum, k, I'll debdiff both so09:50
seb128or diff both rather :)09:50
fabbionejust diff debian/rules09:50
fabbioneit's a 3/4 lines changes09:50
seb128do you know if -mcpu=v9 should be used on Debian sparc too?09:50
fabbioneseb128: it's an optimizations for sparc64 processors09:51
seb128that package used to have no diff and be syncable, I would like to keep it that way if possible :p09:51
fabbioneafaik it breaks on sparc3209:51
fabbionethat debian does support09:51
dholbachseb128: couldn't you do a test on   lsb_release -is   in debian/rules?09:52
Pygiinfinity: around?09:52
seb128dholbach: Debian has no lsb installed by default, but we could Build-Depends on it maybe09:53
seb128dholbach: I would rather have a try on the arch than on lsb09:53
dholbachseb128: sure.. that'd be better09:54
Pygiwho can tell me why is n-m missing libn-dev atleast for ppc (we didn't had amd64 builds) when in our test repo we have that package? :-/09:55
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=== fabbione gets back to the rack
simiramorning fabbione 09:56
fabbionehi simira09:56
simiraHow's your better half?09:57
fabbionesimira: she is getting better...09:57
fabbioneand you?09:57
simirafabbione: fine, enjoying the spring approaching.09:58
fabbioneeheeh good09:58
fabbioneok i am back to the rack09:58
fabbionefor real09:58
=== fabbione &
slomo_Pygi: libnl is not in main yet09:59
Pygislomo_: hm, ok, thanks for taking time to answer ^_^09:59
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infinityseb128: I used lsb_release for a few packages to keep them syncable.  Works well.10:01
slomo_Pygi: but it's approved... so talk to Kamion about it maybe :)10:01
seb128infinity: yeah, that's an idea :)10:01
=== Pygi pokes Kamion
infinityseb128: And we definitely don't want to build with -mcpu=v9 on Debian/sparc10:01
seb128slomo_: do you have an idea why some people still have that totem-xine issue?10:01
slomo_seb128: the crash, the mem usage or the slow logo?10:02
seb128slomo_: the xerror, which is the same issue that the slow logo afaik10:02
seb128seems to be "ask for too much ressource and trigger an xerror due to that" crash10:03
slomo_seb128: hmm... would be useful to have the complete output of totem-xine in that case10:03
infinityfabbione: If you wanted to build with world with v9, why didn't you have doko change the GCC default to v9 instead of v8?10:03
infinityfabbione: I can also override it in gcc-opt, or a varienty of other things to prevent seb from having an ugly diff in his package. :)10:04
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fabbioneinfinity: becayse we don't want that for dapper10:07
fabbioneinfinity: dapper is v8 by default and that's good enough10:08
fabbioneinfinity: some pkgs require extra tuning.. and to avoid to introduce a global regressions point, we just change the few we need10:08
seb128does that tuning makes a real difference?10:08
fabbioneseb128: yes10:08
fabbionelike changing from v7 to v8 in gcc made gcc about 25% faster10:09
fabbionebut we know there are no regression from v7 to v810:09
fabbionewe don't know the same to v910:09
fabbioneso isolated changes are easy to spot than changing the default10:10
fabbioneseb128: you will be able to drop the change in dapper+1 if we get enough testing on v9 by default10:10
seb128k, I guess I'll be near to 0 GNOME packages syncable on Debian without change soon :p10:10
seb128Kamion, mdz: could any of you approve or refuse the libcairo UVF exception? There is a CVE on cairo fixed by that version, so either way we need to patch or update10:12
infinityfabbione: Yeah, but I still could have overridden just the one package in gcc-opt, that's all I'm saying. :)10:14
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KamionPygi: I'm doing my morning archive maintenance now, so main promotions are next on the list10:22
Kamionseb128: ... and UVF exceptions are after that, being harder ;)10:22
Kamionhave to do these things in order of coffee intake10:23
PygiKamion: thanks ^_^10:23
=== Mithrandir chuckles
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seb128Kamion: hehe :)10:24
seb128Mithrandir: hi.  you working on some xkeyboard-config changes atm? Just to know if I can upload an another fix for the ralt stuff10:25
PygiKamion: will we get wpasupplicant in main as well?10:25
Mithrandirseb128: I have no changes pending now.10:26
Mithrandirseb128: I uploaded the fix from svu on lp yesterday, is it more than that?10:26
seb128Mithrandir: ok, I'll upload it so. FYI the change is http://webcvs.freedesktop.org/xlibs/xkbdesc/symbols/group?r1=1.7&r2=1.810:26
KamionPygi: it's in the queue, but not reviewed yet10:26
Kamionand it pulls in qt4, which seems to have gone unnoticed10:27
KamionPygi: I don't actually really make the review decision, pitti does that10:27
KamionI just act on decisions he makes (and make a few "obvious" ones myself)10:27
Mithrandirseb128: go ahead.10:27
seb128Mithrandir: that fixes the issue on my box and my altgr is still working as modifier on normal config so seems to work fine :)10:27
seb128Mithrandir: ok, doing that now10:27
lifelessmjg59: there is no process called evdev 10:27
slomo_Kamion: hm, the libnl inclusion report says that it's approved by pitti10:28
dholbachlifeless: a loaded module called evdev?10:28
Kamionslomo_: that would be why I promoted it five minutes ago :-P10:28
Kamionslomo_: Pygi asked me about wpasupplicant, not libnl10:28
lifelessdholbach: is evdev a kernel module ?10:28
PygiKamion: yes, I know...we removed that dependency in our test repo I believe... ok, I'll poke pitti10:28
Kamionwell, most recently10:29
slomo_Kamion: oh... ok, sorry for the noise ;)10:29
PygiKamion: nah, I about libnl and libnl-dev ;)10:29
seb128$ sudo lsmod | grep evdev10:29
seb128evdev                  10432  110:29
seb128but that's an xorg.conf option too10:29
KamionPygi: might have changed actually, the anastacia report I was looking at predates the NEW processing I did on the most recent wpasupplicant binaries 20 minutes ago10:29
lifelessah yes10:29
=== seb128 not sure about what is the discussion
lifelessmjg59:  - yes, evdev 10176 210:29
PygiKamion: ah,kk10:29
seb128but I know using evdev with xorg makes gnome-settings-daemon go away10:30
Kamionseb128: since mdz was already talking with you about cairo, I'd prefer to leave that to him10:30
Kamionusually works best if we don't both pile in on something10:30
lifelessI didn't explicitly ask for it ever10:30
seb128Kamion: yeah, do you know if he's likely to be around today?10:31
seb128he was not to the distro team meeting yesterday neither replied to the mail so ...10:31
Kamionseb128: oh, actually, StaffCalendar says he's on holiday now; ok, I'll look at it10:33
seb128Kamion: thank you10:33
pittiPygi: I accepted wpasupplicant yesterdsy10:34
Pygipitti: k, great10:34
pittiPygi: oh, can you make wpasupplicant optional in nm10:34
pittiPygi: ?10:34
pittiPygi: i. e. detect it at runtime?10:34
Kamionpitti: it was still in the not-ready section of the inclusion queue10:34
pittiKamion: yes, because it wasn't seeded/germinated yesterday night10:35
PygiKamion: yes, that's why I told that...10:35
pittiPygi: I'm not 100% happy about having it in main, but if we can't avoid it...10:35
pittiit seems sane enough at least10:35
Kamionpitti: no, it wasn't even in that section, it was in "reviewed packages that need work before approval"10:36
Kamionstill is10:36
pittiKamion: oops, my fault then10:36
Pygipitti: we can't really avoid it when N-M needs it for WPA jobs10:36
Kamionpitti: I routinely look in the "reviewed and approved, but not ready to promote" section anyway10:36
pittiPygi: I meant, will n-m work without wpasupplicant?10:36
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Pygipitti: yes, ofcourse ...10:36
Kamionpitti: I wonder if it's still worth keeping that separate from "ready to promote"10:37
Kamionbecause the ftpmaster has to sanity-check against anastacia *anyway*10:37
pittiKamion: if you don't need it, then let's just merge them10:37
Pygipitti: it'll work, but no WPA will be available10:37
pittiPygi: that sounds indeed good10:37
pittiPygi: so what about Recommends: or Suggests: instead of Depends:?10:37
Kamionpitti: mdz might have liked it I guess, but it seems like excess paper-shuffling to me10:37
slomo_Pygi: and no WEP afaik? doesn't it use wpa_supplicant for WEP?10:37
KamionI've never found it valuable10:38
Pygislomo_: yes, no wep as well ;)10:38
pittiKamion: fine for me10:38
Pygipitti: I would go for recommended ...10:38
Pygipitti: what do you say?10:38
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pittiPygi: the definition of 'Suggests' seems to match more closely IMHO, but I don't know how many people actually need WPA10:39
slomo_pitti: i would say that nm is almost useless without wpa_supplicant... no sane wireless network has no encryption at all (it's required also for WEP)10:39
pittislomo_: hm?10:39
Pygipitti: wpasupplicant is also needed for WEP10:39
pittislomo_: I'm in a city-wide WLAN that has no encryption at all - what for?10:39
pittislomo_: the only thing that WEP/WPA provides is access control to the WLAN, AFAICS10:40
hungerpitti: Lucky you... I never ever was able to use an unencrypted WLAN.10:40
pittislomo_: but in big networks that seems to work poorly, that's why they use something different here10:40
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Pygipitti: yes, but do we really want it to make *that irrelevant* to put in 'Suggests'10:41
infinityPygi: Err, why would it be required for WEP?... it never was before.10:41
slomo_pitti: ok, but i for one was never in a wlan that had no encryption ;) and i think every private wlan has (or should have) encryption...10:41
pittislomo_: why?10:41
Pygiinfinity: uh, k , sorry :-/10:41
Pygiit isn't required for WEP, just WPA10:41
Pygipitti: hm, I guess we can go with 'Suggests' then10:42
pittiPygi: http://www.de.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-relationships.html#s-binarydeps10:42
infinityI's recommend Recommends, personally.10:42
infinitySince WPA is a pretty big feature of NM.10:42
pittiinfinity: well, WFM, but for Recommends we need it in main10:42
slomo_pitti: do you want your neighbour or somebody else use your network? :) but anyway, i'm fine with recommends10:43
hungerPygi: Are you sure NM does not use wpasupplicant for both? It would be natural to do so IMHO.10:43
slomo_pitti: we have many packages in main that recommend something outside of main afaik10:43
pittislomo_: alright10:43
infinitypitti: Is it too sketchy/broken for supported?10:43
Pygihunger: as infinity sad, WEP can be used without wpasupplicant10:43
Pygiinfinity: not really, but the question is do we want to support it for 3 years in its current state10:43
pittiinfinity: it seems sane now, but given that wlan change their encryption method like people change their socks, I have a dizzy feeling about supporting it for 3 years10:43
=== Pygi agrees with pitti
hungerPygi: Hmmm... gnome developers seem to like redundant code:-)10:44
Pygipitti: and what about "Enhances" ?10:44
Treenakspitti: WLAN encryption is stnadardized now10:44
pittiPygi: that's not yet really supported, and Enahnces is just a reverse Suggests10:44
Treenakspitti: (WPA2 is an implementation of 802.11i afaik)10:44
infinityPygi: You can put Enchances in the control file if you want, but no tools actually support it.10:44
Treenakspitti: (which is a standard)10:45
Pygiinfinity: oh, joy ...10:45
pittiinfinity: 'Enchants:'? :)10:45
=== irvin [n=vx@ubuntu/member/irvin] has joined #ubuntu-devel
infinitypitti: Erm, yeah. I can type.  Really.10:45
Pygipitti, infinity: so the real question is do we really want wpasupplicant in main ... given that it's not so good as it should be, do we really think we can/want to support it for 3 years? :-/10:46
hungerpitti: Even if there is a new WLAN encryption in 3 years time, then the situation will probably be like WEP/WPA at the moment. I doubt that WPA will change in itself.10:46
pittihunger: I agree, it'll just be obsolete10:46
hungerpitti: Yes, like WEP is nowadays. Still you want to support that?10:47
pittiI think the most important question is: is there an upstream behind it which is likely to stay around for a while?10:47
=== Kagou [n=Kagou@] has joined #ubuntu-devel
Pygipitti: behind wpasupplicant 0.4.8? hardly...they are now working on new 0.5 brach, which is labeled as experimental development build10:48
infinityThat is the real question, yes, since WPA should eventually get rolled into wireless-tools, I expect.10:48
hungerMaybe someone "offical" could ask them?10:48
infinityNo need to be official to ask such questions.10:49
infinityOh boy, another banshee upload.10:49
hungerinfinity: Well, the answer might differ depending on whether it is asked by famous-distribution-head-honcho or by joe-random-user;-)10:49
=== infinity waits for /dev/null to die on all the buildds.
infinityhunger: No, if you're asking how long upstream plans to stick around and support software, the answer is always the same.10:50
slomo_infinity: sorry :( maybe we can finally find the package that breaks the world and fix it this time?10:50
infinityhunger: No one's going to commit to supporting their crap for 3 years just because they like me.10:50
infinityslomo_: I need to find the time to figure it out.  I can't reproduce it reliably, so it's a bit of a pain to nail down.10:50
hungerinfinity: Yes... I guess something like "nope, we play with the cool stuff" :-|10:50
infinityslomo_: If I had to guess, I'd blame either mdadm or udev, since no other package build-deps on those (why does yours?)10:51
Pygipitti: it is higly unlikely that they will continue backporting fixes from 0.5 branch to 0.4.8 as they consider 0.5 to be too much experimental...and we are using "our own" patches on wpasupplicant 10:52
=== ogra wonders what the standard answer should be on bugs like: my GL screensaver crashes my box if i use Xgl/compiz
HrdwrBoBwhere "experimental" = works10:52
slomo_infinity: good question... where do the b-d exactly come from?10:53
Pygiyes, that is true HrdwrBoB, but do you really want to support that? :-/10:53
infinityslomo_: Let me hunt that down for you.10:53
hungerogra: Xgl is experimental, so that is to be expected.10:53
PygiHrdwrBoB: and no, it doesn't work for anyone10:53
ajmitchhunger: yes, but the frustration of getting many, many bug reports like that.. :)10:53
hungerogra: Plus xgl does not support direct rendering by apps which is probably what the gl screensaver is doing.10:54
ograhunger, yes, but is the workload that crap puts on me also to be expected ? 10:54
infinityslomo_: libnjb5 depends on "udev | hotplug" ... That's obviously just plain wrong.10:54
Pygiogra: just tell them them to stop reporting such bugs ^10:54
Pyginot that they will listen, but...10:54
ograexactly 10:54
infinityslomo_: You should change that to a Suggest, perhaps.10:54
hungerajmitch: Is that at all surprising?10:54
infinityslomo_: (or remove it completely, since an Ubuntu system without udev is pretty rare)10:54
slomo_infinity: sure, will do... but don't ask me why it depends on those :)10:55
Pygipitti: so, what we will do? :-/10:55
pittiPygi: well, it seems I'm overturned by the large number of people who need WPA :)10:56
pittiPygi: really, I'm fine with putting it into main if it helps many people10:56
pittiPygi: but please make it a Recommends: nevertheless, so that it can be uninstalled10:57
slomo_infinity: hm, was added by the debian maintainer in the last version we synced... anyway, let's move it to suggests10:57
hungerpitti: I need WPA, but I do not need it in main.10:57
infinityslomo_: Yeah, I saw the Debian changelog.  He changes the "hotplug" depends to "udev | hotplug"... Changing one to the other is correct, but it should never have been a Depends in the first place. :)10:57
pittihunger: but you know what wpasupplicant is, presumably :)10:58
hungerpitti: I'll probably switch to dapper+1 as soon as the archives are opened for that;-)10:58
slomo_infinity: ok, uploaded :) can you delay banshee until this is built?10:58
Pygipitti: I don't think having wpasupplicant in restricted for example, is bad...people who need it, will just install it10:58
infinityslomo_: And it would appear that's what's pulling in mdadm as well (through a lovely udev -> initramfs-tools -> mdadm dependency chain), though that won't happen anymore with the latest initramfs-tools.10:58
hungerpitti: I am using it for a long time now...10:58
pittiso either we say 'yes, we want WPA', then we need to commit to that and put it into ship, or we say 'sucks to be you' and entirely leave it in universe10:58
infinityslomo_: Not easily.  I'll just clean up if it breaks.  No big deal.10:58
Pygipitti: why not restricted?10:59
pittibut if it's really that important, then it rather sounds like we shoould do (a)10:59
infinityslomo_: And we can see on your NEXT banshee upload if that fixes the issue. :)10:59
hungerPygi: Is wpasupplicant restricted?10:59
pittiPygi: what should that be good for? isn't it free software?10:59
Pygipitti: we did the the same with madwifi -ng (puted) it into restricted10:59
Pygipitti: ah, yes, it is..10:59
pittiPygi: or does it violate patents of any kind?10:59
slomo_infinity: hehe... i think the next one could take a bit longer this time ;)10:59
Pygihm, ok, I guess we'll just have to make it recommend :-/10:59
pittiPygi: we have to support restricted as well as main10:59
infinityslomo_: Note that it's the weekend for me already, so I'm trying to avoid anything that smells too much like work. :)11:00
Pygipitti: yes, I know...hm, if we put it into universe it's unlikely it will ever get fixes, patches, etc :-/11:00
pittiinfinity: wanna bet how long you can resist? :)11:00
=== godiane [n=godiane@] has joined #ubuntu-devel
infinitypitti: I'll be strong.  I promise. :)11:00
pittiinfinity: use the force :)11:00
Pygipitti: if it's up to universe or main, I say we go for the main ... and make sure we apply proper patches if/when needed11:01
Pygipitti: and make wpasupplicant "Recommended" of N-M11:01
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hungerPygi: If it is a recommend, then it will not work out of the box. Then it can go into universe as well IMHO.11:02
Pygihunger: bah, do we erally want to make it "Depend"??11:02
hungerPygi: if you don't then a normal user won't be able to set up a wpa connection without help.11:03
infinityhunger: All high level package managers will install Recommended packages by default.11:03
hungerPygi: wpasupplicant can then just as well go into universe.11:03
Pygipitti: thoughts?11:03
hungerinfinity: They do?11:03
infinityhunger: If we're not putting NM in -desktop (we're not), then the only way users will install it is manually.11:04
hungerinfinity: I never used one.11:04
Pygihunger: no, it universe it's less likely to get proper support11:04
pittiPygi: recommends, and putting it into ship should DTRT, shoudln't it?11:04
infinityhunger: And if you're assuming "stupid users", you assume they use "stupid user package management", which will always pull in recommends by default.11:04
pittiinfinity: aptitude won't install recommends if they are in ship?11:04
hungerinfinity: Oh, then why move it into main at all?11:04
infinitypitti: Oh, if it's a ship/supported split, and all you have is the CD, then it won't work, yes.11:04
infinitypitti: We'd need to explicitely seed wpasupplicant to ship to make the CD corner case work.11:05
pittiinfinity: I mean, if both n-m and wpasupplicant are in ship, then I don't see a problem with recommends11:05
=== jinty [n=jinty@135.Red-80-37-34.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
infinitypitti: Right.11:05
pittiinfinity: yes, that's what I was up to11:05
Pygipitti: yes, agreed...11:05
LureWPA is becoming mainstream and I think it makes sense it is always installed with NM (=depends)11:05
Pygi Lure: bah, you haven't been following all..11:05
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hungerOh, I'll just shut up. You will do the right thing anyway.11:06
ografabbione, ping11:06
Pygihunger: nah, just say your opinion11:06
fabbioneogra: pong11:06
infinityLure: Nah, Debian packaging is as much about choice as anything else.  If WPA isn't a REQUIRED feature of NM (and it's not), it's best as a Recommends (if "most" people want it) or a Suggests (if "some" people want it)11:06
Pygipitti: do we have place on CD for wpasupplicant?11:06
ograbug #3458411:06
UbugtuMalone bug 34584 in gnome-screensaver xserver-xorg-driver-ati "screensaver flicker ati" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/3458411:06
pittiPygi: the default answer is always 'no' :)11:06
Pygipitti: I got the impression that it's "no" ;)11:07
fabbioneogra: yes?11:07
TreenaksPygi: Unless you go back in time and invent bigger CDs, that is11:07
pittiSize: 23174611:07
Pygipitti: ah, I knew it... but can we squeeze it in? ;)11:07
hungerPygi: I am for both in desktop and thus main or both in universe (but maybe on the CD).11:07
ografabbione, intrestingly i can neither reproduce it on my amd64 lappie with nvidia card (amd64/i386) nor on my ibook ati ..11:07
pittiwell, that doesn't look too  bad11:07
Lureinfinity: if recommends means that you will get it with NM, then I think this is the right mode11:07
infinityYeah, 200~250k, depending on arch.11:07
infinityThat's a biggish package, but not horrible.11:07
ografabbione, the flickering seems to appear only with certain ati cards11:07
fabbioneogra: well they say that it is gnome-screensaver.. because it works with xscreen saver11:07
infinityLure: Recommends means that if you use high-level package management (aptitude, synaptic, etc), you'll get it by default, yes.11:07
hungerPygi: But then... if you got wlan you usually got broadband as well and can damn well grab the stuff of the net.11:08
Pygipitti: as far as I can tell, wpasupplicant is not that big ... so squeeze it? ;)11:08
fabbioneogra: and i recalled some gnome-screensaver flickering issues11:08
ografabbione, and its reproducable in xscreensaver if you switch the visual for the screensaver from GL to default11:08
Pygihunger: yes, but if it is in main, and we ship n-m, it'll be good to have it on the cd11:08
Mithrandirfabbione: I'm grabbing the xorg lock11:08
LureBTW, what is Debian doing - depend or recommend?11:08
pittiPygi: yeah, yeah, you folks should just say that we don't need langpacks :)11:08
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mvoLure: synaptic has a option for this (in preferences) 11:08
fabbioneMithrandir: sure11:08
Pygipitti: nah, we need langpacks ;)11:08
pittiPygi: (nm, we'll squeeze it in, I suppose)11:08
infinityLure: Debian would almost certainly go with Recommends or Suggests, given that they're completely splitting the package to make it modular.11:08
fabbioneogra: ok.. you can reassign it back if you want11:08
ografabbione, so my question is, can it be related to the ati driver and the handling of visuals there ?11:08
Pygipitti: yes, about nm ... but wpasupplicant...11:09
infinityLure: They're splitting out all the VPN/PPTP stuff, etc.  Specifically so people can pick and choose.11:09
hungerPygi: I do not think that it makes sense to have one but not the other.11:09
pittiPygi: sorry, nm == nevermind 11:09
fabbioneogra: yes it could11:09
Pygipitti: ah, ok ;) great :-D11:09
ograits one of my little nightmare bugs :)11:09
Kamionpitti: somebody appears to have put wpasupplicant into the minimal seed, BTW, in case you hadn't noticed11:09
simiraogra: the flickering screensaver? Is that yours?11:09
Lureinfinity: OK - I am all for recommend with your great explaination11:09
pittiKamion: minimal??? *gulp*11:09
Pygipitti: I'll need to poke keybuk to make it recommended I belive, as I have no more powers over the package (or do I?), as Scott is official maintainer now11:10
ograsimira, yes11:10
=== infinity wonders if he should switch his WAP from WEP to WPA (ooh, nice TLAs) to test the new NM...
Kamionpitti: I won't promote it until that's been decided on properly11:10
pittiPygi: you have as long as it's still in universe11:10
pittiKamion: it seems that after this discussion, ship seems to be the right place11:10
Pygipitti: it has been promoted to main11:10
PygiKamion: shipping, making wpasupplicant recommeded11:10
pittiKamion: I assume the plan is still to put n-m into ship?11:10
Lureinfinity: you should, unless you have unsupported card (or badly behaving one like madwifi)11:11
infinityLure: well, it's just about testing here.  I don't care about the security aspect.  I only have WEP enabled for testing purposes too.11:11
infinityLure: I normally just run with MAC filters.  If people want to sniff my traffic or spoof a MAC, they're welcome to it.11:11
Lureinfinity: ;-)11:12
infinityLure: Anything I do that's "private" is encrypted in other ways anyway (ssh, pgp, etc)11:12
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Pygipitti: k, so we've settled that ^_^11:14
pittiyes, I think so11:14
Pygianything else to settle regarding n-m? 11:14
hungerPygi: knetworkmanager?11:14
Pygihunger: we are still to see what is going to happen with knetworkmanager ... I  hope we can get it into main, but ...11:15
Pygihunger: so KDE people can have it :-/11:15
Pygipitti: how should we go with knetworkmanager? first inclusion into universe, then promotion to main?11:17
Lurehunger: knetworkmanager is waiting for NM-dev packages in order to be able to build it with VPN11:17
pittiPygi: yes, please11:17
Lurehunger: then we need to get FF exception (as kNM was not in Dapper yet!)11:17
Pygipitti: but I suppose we won't be able to ship that on kubuntu cd? 11:17
pittiPygi: why not?11:17
Pygipitti: well, the default "no" for place on cd ;)11:18
LurePygi: why not - kNM is simple code that could be accepted to main11:18
LurePygi: NM was the hard part11:18
pittiPygi: right, that requires a beer or two for Riddell 11:18
Pygipitti: told you ^_^11:18
PygiLure: no, the cd is full ... it is always full ^_^11:18
Pygipitti: considering that we need to put wpasupplicant also on kubuntu cd :-/11:19
=== Pygi pokes Riddell
pittithe question is never whether we have space for something new -- it's always 'what do we kick in favor of this one?'11:19
dholbachKamion: thanks for the UVF approval11:19
LurePygi: Kubuntu CD will have plenty of space if Ooo is replaced with KOffice (just joking ;-))11:19
PygiLure: joy11:19
=== joelbryan [n=joelbrya@] has joined #ubuntu-devel
Pygipitti: yes, but we can't really kick something important :-/11:19
Pygipitti: and what are we to kick from ubuntu cd because of wpasupplicant? :-/11:19
pittiPygi: that's where the beer and Riddel come into play11:20
pittiand Riddell, too11:20
Pygipitti: hm, ok, I guess you will talk to him ... or should I?11:20
pittiPygi: I think you'd do better, I don't have a strong motivation for wpasupplicant :)11:21
pittiPygi: and seb128 always hits me so hard if I say a K-word11:21
Pygipitti: bah, me neither actually, but a lot of people want it ;)11:21
=== pitti hugs seb128
Pygipitti: lol ;)11:21
=== seb128 hugs pitti
Pygipitti: what? Kubuntu? ;)11:21
Lurepitti: why would Riddell need to drop something for wpasupplicant - it is needed for Ubuntu11:21
pittiseb128: HE SAID IT! HE SAID IT!!!11:22
PygiLure: NO PLACE11:22
Pygiseb128: what? ;)11:22
LureRiddell just need to find something for space for knetworkmanager...11:22
PygiLure: bah, leave it to me... I'll talk to him ^_^11:22
PygiLure: you just make sure Knetworkmanager hits the universe11:23
ajmitchsimple, just put gnome on the cd instead11:23
Pygipitti: why is the Kubuntu so important? ;)11:23
Pygis/Kubuntu/Kubuntu word11:23
seb128pitti: what? That I'll kick you if you use a k-word? :p11:23
pittiPygi: nevermind11:23
=== Kagou [n=Kagou@] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Parti"]
Pygipitti: ah, ok :-/11:23
pittiPygi: just bitching11:23
=== Pygi loudly shouts Kubuntu word at seb's ear
siretartoh, there is already a main inclusion report for wpasupplicant.. interesting..11:31
mdkesladen, volume hotkeys working nicely on my thinkpad, except the mute button mutes and doesn't remute. can I put that on the tpb bug, or shall I file a separate one? if a separate one, is it gnome related, or hotkey-setup related?11:31
Pygisiretart: heh11:32
sladenmdke: the mute key never unmutes on thinkpads.  You press up/down to unmute11:35
mdkesladen, are you sure? I could have sworn I've always used it like that.11:35
sladenmdke: it's hotkey-setup, but it follows the design of the hardware (it's how ThinkPads have worked for since RMS had a PDP-11 in at his nursery school)11:36
seb128Kamion: thank you for the libcairo UVF approval. Should I send ChangeLog with it instead of NEWS only next time?11:36
infinitymdke: On my thinkpad, mute's always been a one-way thing.11:36
mdkeinfinity, well, given that you have the same as me...11:37
infinitymdke: T43?11:37
infinityYeah.  It's never un-muted. :)11:37
infinityVolume up to unmute.11:37
mdkeah ok11:37
mdkethe gnome mute dialogue is incredibly confusing11:37
sladenmdke: how so?11:37
seb128mdke: you would like a striked speaker icon?11:38
sladenmdke: would it be better if it showed the volume level at zero when muted?11:38
mdkeit doesn't have the red cross in it which the applet has, so it looks like it's telling you it's not muted11:38
mdkeseb128, that's exactly what I'd like :)11:38
sladenseb128: I like the one at the moment.  What about the current icon with a small [x]  in the corner11:38
seb128mdke: there is some bugs and dup about it11:38
mdkeseb128, cool. is it too late for gnome to fix it?11:39
seb128sladen: I'm fine with current one, but if somebody wants to send a patch using a different icon and if it looks nice I'm fine to use the patch11:39
KamionPygi: what makes you say that wpasupplicant has been promoted to main? (it hasn't)11:39
Kamionpitti: n-m ship> yes11:39
seb128mdke: probably for that cycle, UI freeze11:39
PygiKamion: yes, it still isn't in main ... but it will be  ^_^11:40
mdkeseb128, in that case, a good alternative would be for it to show the volume level as zero, as sladen suggests. I think the best would be to use the same icon as for the applet though11:40
seb128we can change the icon11:40
seb128I might have a look on it later11:40
Kamionseb128: in general, yes, especially when mdz asks you for it (which I guess you missed) ;-)11:40
seb128all those are small details11:40
Kamionseb128: send NEWS as well if available, since it's usually a useful summary11:40
mdkeseb128, that would be great11:41
seb128but we have a long list of small details, so not easy to take everything11:41
Kamionseb128: unfortunately NEWS in this case was not very useful really11:41
seb128Kamion: oh, he did? Oh, I took the question about 1.0.311:41
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seb128Kamion: I had a look on the ChangeLog before asking for the UVF but I was not sure if that was something too verbose to send or not. Noted for next one :)11:42
infinityKamion: Do you know if there's been any movement on making the queue tool less hideously confusing?11:43
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Pygipitti: around?11:43
infinityKamion: I did a binary NEW of libsvn-javahl/sparc earlier today, and was amazed at the hoops I had to jump through to figure out what was new, what priority it should be, etc, etc.11:43
pittiPygi: yes11:43
sladenmdke: btw, when you press volume up, are the steps smaller than volume down?11:43
Pygipitti: just talked to Riddell, he says we can squeeze it in 11:43
mdkesladen, yes11:43
Pygipitti: altought I did somethin' silly first ;) lemme quote it for you...11:44
Pygipitti: "Pygi first pays Riddell a bear or two then talks to him"11:44
Pygilol ;)11:44
pittiPygi: most of the Ubuntu folks prefer a pony, btw11:44
Pygipitti: lol ^_^11:45
seb128sladen: might be a feature11:45
seb128the steps not beeing the same both way11:45
seb128it allow you to move quite quickly one way11:45
mdkesladen, i quite like it, assuming that is the actual behaviour :)11:45
seb128and then to adjust11:45
mdkeit's nice to move down quicker11:45
infinitysladen: I view that as a feature, since you often want it "quieter NOW, dear god!", but you want control when going up.11:45
=== Tm_T is more llama person
sladeninfinity: it's probably one of those real-world UI improvements that just never got done because normal users couldn't accept it11:46
=== _ion is a giraffe/squirrel person.
Pygi_ion: bah ;)11:47
Kamioninfinity: I keep bugging cprov, but he seems to think that coding style improvements are more important11:51
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Tm_T_ion: 7join #animal-perversions eh?11:52
_iontm_t: http://johan.kiviniemi.name/tmp/giraffe_licks_squirrel 11:53
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infinityKamion: Ahh.  Well, he's on VAC (marriage/honeymoon) now, so I guess we deal with what we have for a while.11:56
pittiinfinity: oh, cprov is not there?11:57
=== mwright1night [n=mwright1@203-214-27-200.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel
simirawho is cprov?11:57
pittisimira: our Soyuz god11:57
infinitypitti: He's either just leaving the sprint now/soon, or has already left.11:57
pittiah, thanks11:57
infinitypitti: He gets married this weekend, so was cutting it a bit close. :)11:58
simiramust be something going..11:58
mwright1nightIs the Firefox maintainer about,  check out this bug: It affects all users outside of the USA...  https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/firefox/+bug/1091011:59
UbugtuMalone bug 10910 in firefox mozilla-firefox "Default page size for printing is letter" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  11:59
Kamioninfinity: wow, didn't know he was getting hitched12:00
mwright1nightDefault paper size is letter, AND the setting can't be changed in any way (only on a per print basis)12:00
Kamioninfinity: bug 30933, incidentally12:00
UbugtuMalone bug 30933 in launchpad-upload-and-queue "queue should show me which binaries are new" [Wishlist,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/3093312:00
infinitymwright1night: It's not pulling it from /etc/papersize, is it?12:00
Kamion(if you want to subscribe)12:00
infinityKamion: Thanks, done.12:01
Kamioninfinity: also, that's weird, because I NEWed libsvn-javahl on the other architectures. It must have hit NEW at the point when the binaries I processed were in accepted, which seems to be where the race happens12:01
infinitymwright1night: So, that's correctly set to a4?12:01
Tm_T_ion: nam12:01
infinityKamion: Yeah, all of soyuz appears to race on accepted.12:01
mwright1nightThis is an upstream bug, however in my terminal server environment is its in the top 4 worst bugs for end users12:01
infinityKamion: (hence yesterday's fiasco)12:01
infinitymwright1night: I don't suppose you can find it in upstream's bugzilla?12:02
infinitymwright1night: (No, I'm not the firefox dude, but I'd still be interested in adding more info to the bug)12:02
mwright1nightyer I can12:03
mwright1nightand the redhat bug12:03
infinitymwright1night: Excellent.12:03
infinitymwright1night: Hook 'em all up to the LP bug. :)12:03
mwright1nightgive me a minute, I upgraded my redhat server to FC5 where I keep my mail, FreeNX broke and now I cant' get my email12:03
infinityOh, I didn't even look at the bug...12:04
infinityThis is ancient, and has the mozilla bug in it already.12:04
mwright1nightlet me check if that's the right mozilla bug though12:04
mwright1nighti'll confirm12:04
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mwright1nightI think it is12:04
mwright1nightsomething needs to be done about it, I Had to replace 4 printers, to buy ones that had A4/letter auto override just to accomodate that12:05
mwright1nightcosts our not for profit organisation 15k AUD12:05
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mwright1nightso do you think it's an important bug?12:09
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mwright1nightto get resolved12:09
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infinitymwright1night: You may want to bring iwj's attention to the bug.  It shouldn't actually take much patching to shoehorn the feature in there, assuming the mozilla suite only does paper size selection in one fairly isolated are in the codebase.12:13
=== infinity fins it rather funny that the bug was submitted in 2002 by someone who's now a Canonical employee.
mwright1nightyes that is the correct upstream bug number, one of the distros needs to fix it then send it upstream, cause they don't care to fix it12:14
mwright1nightif not geeks start to use this software, this is the kind of thing that makes the user experience really frustrating12:14
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infinityOh, fun.  network-manager build-deps on wpasupplicant, I didn't notice that.  So the promotion needs to happen regardless.12:18
_ioninfinity: It shouldn't build-dep on wpasupplicant.12:22
mwright1nightinfinity: who is iwj?12:23
ogramwright1night, Diziet12:24
ograour firefox hero12:24
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_ionFrom the package i have here: Build-Depends: automake1.9, debhelper (>= 4.1.0), patchutils (>= 0.2.25), intltool, libtool, libiw-dev (>= 27+28pre9), libdbus-glib-1-dev (>= 0.60), libglib2.0-dev, libhal-dev (>= 0.5.0), libgtk2.0-dev, libglade2-dev, libgconf2-dev, libgnome-keyring-dev, libnotify-dev (>= 0.3.0), libnl-dev, libgcrypt11-dev, libpanel-applet2-dev, libgnomeui-dev12:26
mwright1nightok I left him a proivate msage12:29
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infinity_ion: keybuk's package clearly build-deps on it, cause my buildds all dep-waited the package. :)12:34
infinityAnd my regexes are never wrong!12:34
=== infinity goes to check if his regexes were wrong.
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_ionIs keybuk's source package available from somewhere? I'd like to diff my source to it.12:35
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infinity_ion: Yeah, the source should be in the archive.12:35
infinityBuild-Depends: debhelper (>= 4.0.0), gnome-common, intltool, libgnome-keyring-dev, libdbus-glib-1-dev (>= 0.60), libiw-dev(>= 27+28pre9), libhal-dev, libgnomeui-dev, libpanel-applet2-dev, libglade2-dev, libgconf2-dev, docbook-to-man, libnl-dev, wpasupplicant12:35
stubLaunchpad is going down in 25 minutes for updates. Downtime will be approx. 10 minutes. Wikis will be in read only mode during this time.12:36
_ioninfinity: Seems like those dependencies were copied from some completely different package.12:38
_ioninfinity: That package doesn't use e.g. docbook-to-man.12:38
infinity_ion: Probably.  He didn't use your package, just used some of your patches/changes, afaik.12:38
_ioninfinity: I think one should be able to remove dockbook-to-man and wpasupplicant from the Build-Depends line without any problems.12:39
=== infinity would love a way to have his default gnome-keyring be unencrypted.
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infinityThe only thing in there is my WEP key... And the password protecting the WEP key is more secure than the key itself.12:39
infinityWhich seems pointless.12:40
infinityI don't dig having to log in twice (effectively).12:40
infinityThat's my only gripe with NM, really.12:40
infinity(Well, my only major gripe... Lots of minor ones)12:41
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=== ..[topic/#ubuntu-devel:Kinnison] : Ubuntu Development (not support, even with dapper) | #ubuntu for support and general discussion | #ubuntu-motu for getting involved in development | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpingWithBugs | Flight 5 released | If your initramfs is broken in any way, please save a copy for infinity | UI sprint in #dapper-look | LP/Soyuz down for upgrade
infinityKinnison: Bah, like anyone reads the topic anyway.12:45
infinityKinnison: (Guess how many broken initrds I get sent to me)12:45
ograthats probably because they simply arent broken ?12:45
infinityNice theory, but I get enough complaints.12:46
infinityAnd I say "did you save me a copy, like the topic asks for?"12:46
infinityAnd they go "Oh, no, I didn't see that, I just dpkg-reconfigured and it works now"12:46
infinityAnd I die a little inside.12:46
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KaiL_infinity, that's life - and the same effect, you can see in EVERY web-forum. There you'll read hundreds of complains, that something important doesn't work. But how many bugs marked "critical" exist?12:47
ograevil users !12:48
infinityI'd love it if someone would go through the Ubuntu forums and try to file some bugs on behalf of people with weird problems.12:48
ograletting you die ..12:48
infinityBut it's not something I have the time for.12:48
KaiL_infinity, forget it - 99% of those problems are PEBKAC12:49
infinityThe ubuntu-users mailing list is full of "this is horribly broken and must be fixed before release!!" stuff too, but no one on the list ever seems to suggest that the users in question should file a bug.12:49
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KaiL_and the last 1% is so bad described, that you can't find out, what he means12:49
infinityKaiL_: Sure, many are, but some aren't.  And the non-problems still get lost, because we don't read the forums, cause we just plain don't have the time.12:49
infinityerr, non-PEBKAC problems, that is.12:50
KaiL_so just fix those bugs, which find the way into LP :)12:50
mdkea bug filing team...12:50
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KaiL_like the ~15 I reported last week (of which at least 5 are from crying friends..)12:50
=== ..[topic/#ubuntu-devel:Kinnison] : Ubuntu Development (not support, even with dapper) | #ubuntu for support and general discussion | #ubuntu-motu for getting involved in development | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpingWithBugs | Flight 5 released | If your initramfs is broken in any way, please save a copy for infinity | UI sprint in #dapper-look | Soyuz updated, report issues in LP
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sivanghrm, since last update *last night) my panles are complete mess, no ALT-TAB, and no workspace switching, any ideea ? :)01:32
sivangpanles , even01:32
Treenakspanels, too :P01:36
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sivangTreenaks: what's the idea ? :)01:43
Treenaksno idea01:43
Treenaksstill works fine for me01:43
sivangwhat about keyboard setup, do you have ALT-TAB and ALT-F2 working as expected?01:44
Treenaks(I updated last night, too)01:44
Kamioninfinity: hmm, queue output just changed somewhat, I have a suspicion some of our problems may be answered01:44
=== infinity logs in to look.
Kamionat least, I see a star there, that might maybe disappear when a binary is already overridden, or something01:48
Kamionno examples of binary-new to check with at the moment, though01:48
KinnisonKamion: have you done vim-ruby already?01:48
infinityYeah, I see...01:48
infinityvim was ages ago.01:48
Kinnisonwell it was worth a thought01:49
infinityI could do a gratuitous upload and reject it. :)01:49
KamionI've been trying to keep new pretty clear of late01:49
infinityI noticed that.01:50
infinityWhat's the deal on the ifolder/libflaim business in there?01:51
infinityAlso, uhm, why is the newest not at the bottom anymore?01:51
infinityThat seemed intuitive and Correct to me.01:51
infinityKamion: Did you request that the queue sorting get inverted, or is this a bug?01:52
KamionI didn't request it; presumably somebody thought it was a good idea ...01:53
KamionI dunno, I can see arguments either way01:53
infinitySeems entirely backwards, since it's a CLI tool, you want the more recent stuff closer to your prompt.01:53
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infinityI'd think.01:53
Kamionyou could argue that older queue items ought not to be forgotten01:53
Kamionalthough on balance I did prefer the older order01:53
infinityThey won't be forgotten, once you clear out the ones you really care about at the bottom. :)01:53
Kamioninfinity: ifolder/libflaim are pending an e-mail conversation with Mez that I need to get back to01:54
infinityAhh, check.01:54
=== infinity wonders if the sorting really did get inverted, or if the sorting's just buggy and not working anymore.
Kamioninfinity: it's a bit harder when you're dealing with a queue 70-odd items long, which it was when I first started poking at the Soyuz queue01:54
infinityKinda hard to tell with so few things in the queue.01:54
Kamion'queue -R breezy -Q unapproved info \*' is inverted, so I think it's consistent01:54
mvoKamion: you want some discussion about debconf/gnome and the upgrade tool? what is your preferred time for this?01:59
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mvoRiddell: I uploaded new app-install-data, it should be more complete now (fixed some bugs). I checked various kde apps and the icons are extracted so adept_installer should find them02:07
Riddellmvo: great, thanks, will take a look02:08
=== mvo goes for lunch
mvoRiddell: most kde icons seems to be xpm, no idea if that is good or bad (or dosn't matter)02:09
mvoRiddell: oh, and it's pretty big :)02:09
Riddellmvo: no kde icons are xpm02:09
TheMusoMithrandir: ping02:10
Kamionmvo: now's fine, just want to know what the problem is02:10
MithrandirTheMuso: pong02:10
mvoKamion: i'm about to leave for lunch02:10
Kamionfine, after lunch is good too02:11
KamionI'm here all day, thankyou, etc.02:12
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TheMusoMithrandir: http://www.themuso.id.au/ubuntu/casper -- An update to the accessibility script. Not much was trimmed, as most of the settings that are set in the profiles are not otherwise desired by other users if that makes sense. :)02:12
TheMusoJust passed a patch to dholbach to move important settings into the necessary packages.02:13
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_mvo_Riddell: sure? http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/10718 shows some in kreversi02:16
=== _mvo_ kicks his wlan
_mvo_Kamion: maybe after lunch? I'm about to leave for lunch02:17
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Kamion_mvo_: fine02:17
Riddellmvo: the debian packages do still have some xpm icons, but the KDE icons are all PNG.  kreversi has hi128-app-kreversi.png ./usr/share/icons/hicolor/128x128/apps/kreversi.png02:19
_mvo_Riddell: hm, the extractor is not smart enough to decide which on to pick then and he preferes standard locations (/usr/share/pixmaps)02:22
Riddell/usr/share/pixmaps is obsolete, /usr/share/icons is the standard02:23
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ograseb128, thanks ! :)02:58
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seb128ogra: you're welcome02:59
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mdkesladen, the chap for whom the thinkpad hotkeys don't work on bug #341 says that he uses xfce, could this be the difference?03:21
UbugtuMalone bug 341 in Ubuntu "tpb doesn't work" [Normal,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/34103:21
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mjg59mdke: xfce doesn't do visualisation of volume controls, I suspect03:31
mdkemjg59, i suspect so too. so it's a choice between using tpb (works with any desktop), and hotkey-setup (works with GNOME only)?03:34
mjg59Or xfce getting its act together03:34
mjg59tpb is not an acceptable general answer03:34
mjg59Any user who can use tpb can render the system unbootable03:35
mdkemjg59, i suppose there isn't any possibility of the hotkey-setup solution becoming desktop independent?03:35
mjg59It /is/ desktop independent03:36
mjg59It sends standard keycodes03:36
siretartmdke: you just need to configure your desktop to react on those keycodes03:36
siretartmdke: therefore hotkey-setup integrates more nicely than tpb03:36
mdkei see. well I'm happy anyway, because I use gnome :)03:37
jsgotangcotoo bad for others though03:39
mjg59(Well, they could, I don't know, fix the desktops...)03:40
mdkewell, they haven't lost anything, because their desktop *never* did have visualisation of volume control03:40
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siretartgnarf. stupid acx111 not being able to do wpa on their own :(03:41
mdkesiretart, what acx111 have you got?03:42
siretartmdke: I'll look03:43
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siretartmdke: Texas Instruments ACX100 PCI adapter03:47
siretartthis is my brother's machine :/03:47
mdkei've got one of those. siretart, did it work out of the box?03:47
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mdkealthough I think there are lots, with different firmware03:48
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mdkeseb128, do you know whether gnome-sudo has been replaced by another command in dapper?03:51
mdkecould be03:52
ograogra@edubuntu:~$ apt-cache search gnome-sudo03:53
ogragksu - graphical frontend to su03:53
mvoKamion: I think I found the cause of the debconf/gnome fontend problem, my bad03:53
siretartmdke: WEP worked for me out of the box, yes03:54
mdkeogra, it seems to have disappeared from gksu between breezy and dapper03:54
mdkesiretart, cool03:54
siretartmdke: now I switched my home network to wpa, but now I read this: http://acx100.sourceforge.net/wiki/WPA03:54
seb128mdke: did we have a such command once?03:54
mdkeseb128, in breezy03:54
seb128are you sure?03:54
ograogra@edubuntu:~$ apt-cache show gksu|grep Provides:03:54
ograProvides: gnome-sudo03:54
mdkeseb128, yeah, I'm on breezy now03:55
siretarthm. seem that I have to fiddle with ndiswrapper :(03:55
seb128mdke: dpkg -S `which gnome-sudo`03:55
mdkesiretart, WEP has only supported for about 6 months :)03:55
seb128ogra: Provides is for packages not command03:55
ograseb128, i know03:55
mdkeseb128, gksu: /usr/bin/gnome-sudo03:55
seb128mdke: ls -l /usr/bin/gnome-sudo ?03:55
seb128(maybe it used to ship a compatibility command)03:56
ograbut there was a package called gnome-sudo once that provided /usr/bin/gnome-sudo03:56
mdkeseb128, -rwxr-xr-x  1 root root 32 2005-10-18 06:09 /usr/bin/gnome-sudo03:56
seb128mdke: cat /usr/bin/gnome-sudo03:56
siretartmdke: I'd rather say for a couple of GB of traffic03:56
mdkeseb128, yes, it's gksudo :)03:56
seb128that's weird that you ever suggested that one03:56
seb128we use gksu for everything since warty :)03:57
seb128gksu or gksudo03:57
=== mdke shrugs
mdkewe inherited it from the unofficial ubuntuguide, I think03:57
ograbut there was a gnome-sudo package pre warty03:57
mdkeI'll update it03:57
mjg59siretart: That's the normal state of WPA support03:57
seb128ogra: that's not the point, stop arguing on that03:57
mjg59siretart: We do it all in userspace03:57
ograi guess it got merged for backwards compatibility03:57
seb128mdke: thank you03:57
seb128ogra: we are not discussing why it got merged, but why people were still using a stuff deprecated for ages now03:58
mdkeseb128, thanks03:58
ograsorry then 03:58
siretartmjg59: err, right, but the kernel has to provide some extensions for wpa support. 03:58
mjg59siretart: Yes. And they claim that the acx driver does03:59
siretartmjg59: who claims that?03:59
siretarthttp://acx100.sourceforge.net/wiki/WPA claims that you need ndiswrapper for that :(03:59
mjg59http://acx100.sourceforge.net/wiki/WPA implies that the necessary wireless extensions are in the driver (though untested)03:59
siretartmjg59: if that means that wpasupplicant needs another driver backend, than thats not written (yet)04:00
Treenakssiretart: they're unifying WPA upstream04:00
Treenakssiretart: into the 'standard' wireless extensions04:01
siretartTreenaks: they tell driver developers to implement WE19, I know04:01
Treenakssiretart: so you don't need 600 backend modules for wpasupplicant anymore04:01
mjg59siretart: No, it doesn't mean that04:01
siretartTreenaks: AFAIK only ipw2200 (and perhaps ipw2100) implement that sufficiently :(04:01
mdkeseb128, by the way, should a tip on how to open files as root in nautilus even be in the guide, in your opinion? does it carry security problems?04:01
Treenakssiretart: and prism5404:01
mjg59It's actually pretty trivial to add the support04:02
siretartmjg59: I just tried breezy/acx100.ko with wpasupplicant_0.4.8 - no luck with any driver backends04:02
mjg59siretart: The only one which would have any chance of working is wext. If that doesn't work, it's a failing in the driver and we can fix that04:03
siretartTreenaks: I'd be happy if madwifi and acx would implement WE19 soon. but I don't see that happen in short time04:03
Treenakssiretart: Why not?04:03
siretartTreenaks: madwifi upstream doesn't consider WE19 important04:03
mjg59madwifi is probably harder due to it being made out of string04:03
siretartmjg59: so I shall try upgrading to dapper and see if wext works there?04:03
siretartI intended to do that tomorrow anyway04:04
mjg59siretart: It's worth a go. If it still doesn't work, then file a bug.04:04
siretartmjg59: ok. will do04:05
infinitymadwifi upstream actually seems to have become more receptive to WEXT in the last week or two.04:08
infinityThey've been asking for specs and pointers on how to support the current API.04:08
infinity(Which will most likely just end up as wrapper around their own interface for now, but that's fine)04:09
Treenaksinfinity: wow.. madwifi devs, listening to demands?04:09
mdkewhat do other people think? is it a bad idea to document a nautilus script which permits you to open files as root from the file manager? if so, what are the hazards, perhaps we can include an appropriate warning04:10
neuralismdke: what's the use case?04:11
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mdkeneuralis, browse to /etc, right click fstab, select Scripts -> Open as root04:11
mdkefor example04:11
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neuralismdke: it should say 'open as administator', but other than that, there's no real hazard. you're not doing anything that a user can't already do via sudo.04:12
neuralismdke: no such action should exist for 'execute', though. that'd be evil.04:12
mdkeit uses gnome-open04:13
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mdkegood point on the s/root/administrator04:13
mdkeneuralis, does gnome-open execute stuff?04:14
neuralismdke: let me check.04:15
siretartinfinity: do they plan that wrapper for madwifi-ng only or for madwifi-old as well?04:16
neuralismdke: "Error showing url: There is no default action associated with this location."04:16
neuralismdke: that's for a binary, so it appears not.04:16
mdkeneuralis, ok, I'll include a health warning anyway04:17
neuralismdke: another warning on top of gksudo asking for the root password seems a bit overbearing.04:18
mdkeneuralis, just a warning in the documentation, not in the script04:19
neuralismdke: ah, okay.04:19
infinitysiretart: Only -ng, the -old branch hasn't had a commit for a very long time, it's just there so people have something to use while -ng is broken.04:19
siretartI see04:20
seb128mdke: I don't think that explaining people how to do that if they want to do it is an issue, no04:25
makoGwynn: yes.. i'm available04:25
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mdkeseb128, cool. thanks04:28
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Kamionmvo: oh, ok, cool, what was it? I asked partly because I know there was a libglib-perl/libgtk-perl issue at one point in dapper, but it should be fixed now04:36
mvoKamion: hm, i'm still investigating. it looks like a issue with the environment and the XAUTHORITY04:38
Riddellinfinity: kdenetwork is not compiling on those platforms because it can't find /var/run/utmp, any idea where utmp might have gone?04:41
infinityNot required to be there?04:42
infinityIt's not in my chroots either, hence why I could reproduce it.04:42
infinityAnd I didn't do anything fancy to "clean" my local chroots.04:43
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dokopitti: please can you move the locale-gen calls from the -pack into the -support packages?05:00
pittidoko: hm, not move, but I can additionally do them in -support05:01
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mvois the live-cd of today working? it drops me into a busybox here05:03
dokopitti: fine with me05:03
infinitypitti: How do you propose I get ubuntu-live installable on hppa?... Should I just unseed langsupport-* from hppa/live, or can you think of something more clever?05:03
infinitypitti: (Due to langsupprt depending on openoffice packs which depend on openoffice..)05:04
pittiinfinity: which packages are uninstallable in particular?05:04
pittiinfinity: as a quick fix, unseeding certainly works05:04
pittiinfinity: alternatively I change the dependencies to be [i386 powerpc amd64]  or so05:04
infinityAlternately, it might work if the openoffice packs didn't depend on openoffice, but that only works if they can install with it (can they?)05:05
Kamioninfinity: that indicates that netboot will probably be broken though05:05
KamionI'd almost rather we didn't paper over that ...05:05
infinitypitti: If they're arch:all packages, you can't do that.  You can't use [arch]  in depends, only build-deps.05:05
pittiinfinity: oops, right05:05
Kamionoh, live, I guess netboot doesn't matter05:05
pittiinfinity: hm, once upon a time, the ooo langpacks depended on openoffice.org | language-support-XX05:06
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pittidoko: ^ that's not the case any more?05:06
infinitydoko: Do the openoffice packs have to depend on openoffice, or is that just there to get the version right?  (which could be done with a set of conflicts instead)05:06
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infinityI think that's the only real thing blocking me from turning on livecds for hppa again...05:07
infinitySo, if we can sort it somehow, that would be awesome.05:08
infinityEven if it means tying up an i386 buildd for another 12 hours on an OOo-l10n build. :)05:08
dokoinfinity: parse error ...05:09
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infinityErr, wait.  The deps are correct?05:11
=== infinity scratches his head.
infinityLet me hop in a chroot so I can argue with this britney output. :)05:12
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infinitydoko / pitti: It's not the langpacks, it's the thesaurus... openoffice.org-thesaurus-en-us depends on openoffice.org-core, and you've added the thesaurus to language-support-en.05:15
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pittiinfinity: hm, then maybe the same alternative dependency should be applied to the thesauri?05:18
infinitydoko: Same with openoffice.org-hyphenation-de, it requires openoffice to be installed.05:19
infinityYeah, I expect the thesauri and heyphenation packages should get the same treatment the langpacks got.05:19
infinityLuckily, none of them require an OOo-l10n rebuild.05:21
infinityThe thesauruses and hyphenation stuff all come from a bunch of smaller packages...05:21
dokoinfinity: ok05:21
infinitydoko: You okay with applying that hack to those?05:22
infinityThey don't break without OOo installed, I hope?  (ie: postinsts fail, etc)05:22
pittiat least for the similar firefox hack I had to add an if [ -x ... ]  to the postinst/prerm05:23
infinityDoes firefox still use evil update-chrome stuff?05:23
=== infinity is glad that's gone from thunderbird.
pittiinfinity: nope05:23
Dizietinfinity: I give up.  Which package do I have to dpkg -i to reproduce https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/defoma/+bug/6614 ?05:27
UbugtuMalone bug 6614 in gs-common "Use of uninitialized value in print at /var/lib/defoma/scripts/gs.defoma line 108" [Normal,Confirmed]  05:27
ograDiziet, all font packages ? 05:27
ograDiziet, i see it on every flight install for every font package05:27
DizietI just installed (eg) gsfonts-x11_0.17ubuntu3_all.deb ttf-arabeyes_1.1-4_all.deb x-ttcidfont-conf_20ubuntu1_all.deb and a couple of others.05:28
DizietI see   Can't exec "locale": No such file or directory at /usr/share/perl5/Debconf/Encoding.pm line 16.05:28
DizietUse of uninitialized value in scalar chomp at /usr/share/perl5/Debconf/Encoding.pm line 17.05:28
DizietBut that's something different.05:28
infinityDiziet: Grab an ISO and do a fresh test install?  I'm pretty sure the bug didn't just recently go away.05:29
ograi'm 100% sure it was there in flight 505:29
Diziettest install> I was hoping for a shortcut :-).  Fair enough.05:30
DizietDo I have to select CJK or something ?05:30
ograit happens for me in either english (uk/us doesnt matter) or german installs05:31
infinityDiziet: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=325598 tries to explain why it may only happen on initial install.05:31
UbugtuDebian bug 325598 in gs-common "Subject: gs-common: uninitialized value in print in /var/lib/defoma/scripts/gs.defoma" [Normal,Open]  05:31
infinityDiziet: (note that the Debian bugs are linked in a portlet on the side of the Malone bug)05:32
DizietOh, so they are.  I always ignore all of that clutter ...05:32
infinityYeah, that particular feature could be made more prominent.  I'd never look for it if I didn't already know there were linked bugs.05:33
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ograat least it moved to the left and you can actually click it :)05:33
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infinityOh, look.  hoary-updates appears to work.  Snazzy.05:35
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j^seb128 you said you might accept a patch for the osd volume icons, i attched one to use the stock icons from the current theme to launchpad 2030205:56
seb128j^: thank you, I'll have a look on that later :)05:56
mdkej^, rock! hope that gets in05:58
pittiMithrandir, Kamion: yay, this is the first time I went through the espresso steps without any bug :) (on ppc)06:02
pittigood work!06:02
pitti... says pitti and finds the last step crashing06:03
=== seb128 should try a new espresso
mvoKamion: woah, that took ages, the reason for the debconf problem in the upgrade tools seems to be a bug in gksudo that made the XAUTHORITY file (gksudo makes a private copy) cleaned up too early so the gnome frontend wasn't able to initiallize06:09
mvopitti: what image did you used? I had no luck with the current daily06:09
pittimvo: today's ppc daily06:09
pittimvo: oh, I used the live image, not the install (I'm Kamion's worst nightmare wrt. espresso testing)06:17
Dizietogra/infinity: Well, I had a Flight 1 CD.  After installation /var/log/installer/messages has no complaints about gs.defoma.06:19
DizietAh!  I've reproduced it by reinstalling gs-common.06:21
sladenmdke: oh, *xubuntu*... righto.  *ponder, ponder*06:24
Luresladen: seen you mentioned broken ACPI for HP/Compaq - is this what broke hibernate on my HP nw824006:30
sladenLure: maybe, when did it break for you?  We might be able to track down the kernel-change/etc that did it06:34
Lurekernel -18, I suppose - see bug 3461706:35
UbugtuMalone bug 34617 in linux-source-2.6.15 linux-image-2.6.15-18-386 "hibernate broken on HP nw8240 with 2.6.15-18" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/3461706:35
LureI also had problems with daily install (not sure if related) - bug 3458606:36
UbugtuMalone bug 34586 in Ubuntu "Kubuntu Dapper 20060312 cannot install on HP nw8240" [Major,Needs info]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/3458606:36
LureI downloading Kubuntu Flight5 now to see if I can install06:36
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Kamionpitti: hmm, talk about a non-informative traceback :(06:42
KamionI suppose it might be fixed by the various changes in that area I've been doing today, but sadly I can't say for sure06:43
suckhi.how are u?06:43
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mjg59sladen: Why did you just mark 34617 a dupe of 34586?06:46
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JasonFI just found a horrible regression in Xorg 8 that you guys might want to be aware of. I filed an ubuntu bug here https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/xorg/+bug/36461 and the fdo bug is here 06:47
UbugtuMalone bug 36461 in xorg "XOrg 8 dualhead regression" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  06:47
UbugtuFreedesktop bug 2597 in Server/general "Dual Head broken" [Major,Reopened]  06:47
sladenmjg59: because the root-cause is the same.  ACPI being bust on HP's...06:47
infinityJasonF: Xorg 8?06:48
infinityJasonF: We're only shipping 7.0.. :)06:48
mjg59sladen: Firstly, it's not - I have a 6220 here (same platform) that's working fine06:48
mjg59sladen: Secondly, hibernation doesn't use any ACPI06:48
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JasonFinfinity: version may be wrong, but the bug is in the version you ship, heh06:49
Dizietdefoma is completely insane inside !06:53
Robot101its hardly sensible outside either... :)06:54
infinityDiziet: No shit. :)06:54
carlosRiddell: hi, so, are you going to upload a kde-i18n-* update today?06:57
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sladenmjg59: what's the best soft-keys daemon to suggest to the Xubuntu lot so that soft volume-keys work for them?07:05
mjg59sladen: No idea, I'm afraid07:05
mjg59acme, perhaps?07:05
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ograbcm43xx-fwcutter :)07:20
=== ogra yays for Kamion
Kamionbeen meaning to do that for a while07:23
ograi just compiled it myself again today and podered to do it ... pitti as well :)07:23
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dokomvo: ping07:46
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mvodoko: pong07:51
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Lurejust released xserver-xorg_7.0.0-0ubuntu24_all.deb seems to have bug in preconfigure script:07:54
Lure /tmp/xserver-xorg.config.122781: line 957: syntax error near unexpected token `esac'07:54
KaiL_somebody killed lists.ubuntu.com?07:57
BurgworkKaiL_, appears all of ubuntu.com is down07:58
KaiL_at least the package server just came back to life ;)07:58
KaiL_...or not..07:59
KaiL_they need ages to connect, but then everything works07:59
dokomvo: did you look at the font in multiverse (moved it to universe)?07:59
mvodoko: ttf-gentium? or some other font(s)?08:00
mvodoko: I'm in contact with the upstream person, it seems to be good quality, especially for printing08:01
mvodoko: why? 08:01
mvodoko: it will be part of ubuntu-desktop soon, it covers a big unicode range08:01
dokomvo: cool, just for preparing OOo ...08:01
mvodoko: what kind of stuff needs to be prepared?08:02
mvodoko: I'll add something to fontconfig for gentium too08:02
dokomvo: default font selection for docs, etc08:02
mvoah, ok08:02
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lemsx1/var/lib/dpkg/tmp.ci/config: line 957: syntax error near unexpected token `esac'dpkg: error processing /var/cache/apt/archives/xserver-xorg_7.0.0-0ubuntu24_all.deb (--unpack):08:15
lemsx1 subprocess pre-installation script returned error exit status 208:15
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dholbachhave a nice evening08:35
bddebianGNight dholbach08:35
dholbachnight bddebian08:35
LaserJockcya dholbach 08:37
dholbachbye guys :)08:37
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zygaanyone? xserver-xorg has a syntax error in postinst script08:44
slomo_zyga: was fixed some seconds ago by infinity 08:44
slomo_zenrox: -0ubuntu2508:44
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=== Kamion wonders if the bug tracking system is down or something, since that's three people who felt it necessary to report this by IRC ...
zygahum I got -0ubuntu2408:45
Kamiondude, stuff takes a while to build.08:45
zygaKamion: right, I'm sorry08:45
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sladenis Release signing bust?  Has a warning about every package now being untrusted08:47
infinityKamion: Two people filed it in Malone too.08:49
zygaKamion: I ought to have checked the bugtracker 08:49
infinityKamion: And a fantastic blind-leading-the-blind thread on the forums.  "Did you try 'apt-get install xserver-xorg' instead of 'apt-get dist-upgrade'?... Does that work any better?"08:50
infinity"Yes, that magically puts bash in 'ignore typos' mode..."08:51
mdkei would have thought that these small bugs are sometimes more easily fixed by someone reading the typo on irc and fixing it, rather than having to bother opening/closing bugs08:51
=== infinity decides that this level of sarcasm clearly means it's bedtime.
mdkei spose someone will always open the bug tho08:51
Kamionwhich means that every developer reading IRC has to go "ooh, I wonder if somebody's fixed this yet", download the source packages etc., before realising that it's already fixed08:52
infinitymdke: I fixed it because I spotted someone popping on IRC and pasting it... Of course, I got the bug in my INBOX about 2 minutes AFTER I fixed it, so that would have worked just as well.08:52
Kamionbugs are good for tracking what's happened *as well* as the problem. :)08:52
mdkeKamion, not every developer, just infinity08:53
zygaOTOH fixing bugs this way gives you developer connection :-)08:53
Kamionmdke: how do you know?08:53
infinitymdke: No, I'm sure I'm not the only one who saw the report, went to look at -changes, saw no recent upload fixing it, then went to fix it.08:53
KamionI can prove you're wrong because I did the above ...08:54
infinitymdke: The fact that my upload was ther first in just proves I have a local mirror and I type quickly.08:54
mdkewas just a joke08:54
mdkeremember what you said earlier about last-touched-it maintenance08:54
infinityTILM for that bug passes to Mithrandir, but I don't think he's around right now.08:54
KamionI think the above is *why* infinity suffers from TILM so badly. :) (or would, if he let himself)08:55
mdke [08:08:01]  < infinity> If I suffered from touched-it-last maintenance, I'd maintain the whole dist by now.08:55
=== infinity is rather shocked that he even found time to TEST the package and was still the first upload in.
infinityI suppose others are working, while I'm just idling at 7am and pretending to sleep. :)08:58
=== infinity goes to pretend sleeping in bed instead of on IRC.
KaiLhmm, scrollkeeper-update produces an error...09:01
KaiL/usr/share/omf/serverguide/serverguide-C.omf:23: parser error : Entity 'distro-rev' not defined09:01
KaiL    <description>This document is a Ubuntu &distro-rev; Server Guide. It09:01
KaiLstrange: this only happenes here (?!?), not on my laptop09:01
mdkeKaiL, can you file a bug on ubuntu-docs please09:01
mdkeoh actually, don't bother09:02
mdkei know it09:02
KaiLmdke, I'd like to find at least a second system for that - I had some hd-issues here recently09:02
mdkeKaiL, no, i see the bug09:02
KaiLeven better09:03
=== Kamion does his near-daily espresso upload and wanders off for the weekend
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mdkeKaiL, nice catch, thanks09:04
KaiLwell, it results in having no help here :/09:05
mdkeoh crap09:05
zygaoh, this reminds me of something09:05
KaiLthat wasn't all :/09:05
zygathere are lots of references to undefined variables or something similar during deforma script runs09:05
mdkeKaiL, paste them09:05
KaiLno more errors on scrollkeeper-update09:06
KaiLbut yelp stays empty09:06
mdkeKaiL, but the guy who does ubuntu-docs uploads isn't around so the fix i've done won't get uploaded until monday09:06
KaiLany other script/app needed to be run to get yelp back to work?09:06
mdkeno, scrollkeeper-update09:07
mdkesorry about that, I'll try and make sure that gets tested before each upload in the future09:07
mdkeif you want to fix it, edit the file and remove the &distro-rev; expression09:08
KaiLI/O warning : failed to load external entity "Cannot write to log file: /var/log/scrollkeeper.log : Permission denied"09:08
KaiLthat's what I did, so scrollkeeper-update runs09:08
KaiLbut yelp starts with this09:09
mdkedo sudo scrollkeeper-rebuilddb09:09
KaiLI/O warning : failed to load external entity "/usr/share/ubuntu-docs/common/authors/ubuntu-documentation-project.xml"09:10
KaiLthree times - but works09:10
mdkeok, I'll fix that too09:11
=== mdke grumbles
KaiLis this rebould-db automatically run from time to time? would be nice, if it runs at least once on the update09:12
mdkebut it runs when you install ubuntu-docs too, I think09:13
KaiLdoesn't look like - neigher that nor the normal scrollkeeper-update09:14
KaiLrebuild-db takes VERY lonk on slow computers :/09:14
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KaiLnow I guess, we have the next bug :)09:23
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KaiLon one laptop here, I only ran scrollkeeper-rebuilddb, and did NOT fix the &distro-rev; before... and now yelp works09:25
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KaiLlooks like rebuilddb is never run09:25
mdkeit's in cron.monthly, I think09:26
sobersabreguys. I have heard of 'breezy security issue'. 09:26
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sobersabrethat /var/log/installer/cde<something> contains initial passwords... I couldn't verify it.09:27
Amaranthit's fixed in the latest isos09:27
mdkesobersabre, that was fixed a while ago09:27
Amaranthnot fixed on any shipit cds though09:27
setuidSeems the dapper kernels get Palm devices completely wrong at connect time, for the first time ever (I'm the pilot-link maintainer, and this is the first time in hundreds of thousands of connection attempts from thousands of users, that I've ever seen this) 09:28
Amaranthbut as soon as you install you'll be notified of security updates and one of those is the fix09:28
sobersabreok, but I used not the latest breezy when installed it. and I should've been hit... but I haven't... I didn't enable root on install or something...09:28
KaiLmdke, looks ok there - but isn't run after OS installation?09:28
mdkeKaiL, i dunno, it's run when it has to be I suppose09:29
Amaranthsobersabre: As I said, if you have security updates installed the problem is fixed.09:29
sobersabreyou mean one of the updates cleaned up the mess ?09:29
sobersabrehow do you do something like this in a deb ? write arbitrary script and package it as a deb ?09:29
KaiLmdke, well, at least, if you installed with flight4, you need to wait one month to have yelp running then :/09:30
sobersabreit needs not to exist afterwards...09:30
mdkeKaiL, that's why we try to fix bugs before releasing09:30
sobersabreso you somehow need to remove it then...09:30
KaiLsobersabre, updated tool, which doesn't produce this error again AND remove that problem :)09:31
sobersabreKaiL the problem was that some installer remain contained the cleartext data.09:31
sobersabreso ... what does your sentence state  ? 09:31
mdkesobersabre, ok, relax please. It's fixed, let's move on.09:32
sobersabreOK... I need to rtfm about packaging... mdke you could use that too ;-)09:32
=== sobersabre goes off to rtfm..
sobersabreoh! I came for other purpose.09:33
sobersabreI have a C q. can somebody maybe tell me: can I write something like #ifdef (X && Y) ?09:34
infinityNot if you want portable code.09:37
infinity#ifdef X09:37
infinity#ifdef Y09:37
infinitydo stuff09:37
bddebian Or #if defined(x) && defined(y) I think09:38
=== mdke puts a sleeping pill in infinity's drink
sobersabreI got that from ##c now.. thanks! :)09:38
Amaranthwhat compilers work/don't work with #ifdef (X && Y)?09:38
sobersabreAmaranth gcc -ansi -pedantic doesn't09:38
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nysosymhi there :)10:04
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nysosymis a changelog for every day updates available?10:05
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chris_!seen \sh10:39
chris_anyone know anything about \sh?10:40
neuralischris_: he was on planet recently, things didn't sound very well10:41
Burgworkneuralis, how goes life for you?10:41
chris_neuralis: well, i read his blog.. i'm confused.. i worry about him ;\10:42
chris_do you know anything more?10:43
neuralisBurgwork: been pretty ill for about two weeks, but well otherwise. 10 days of vacations starting today.10:43
neuralisBurgwork: you?10:43
Burgworkpretty good. Made my first sale yesterday, which is a major event (6 months of work, paying off)10:44
neuralischris_: unfortunately, no. i hope he's alright, though.10:44
neuralisBurgwork: congrats, mate10:44
chris_okay, I still hope, that we hear some from him..10:44
chris_will still read the blog10:45
chris_thx and bye10:45
Burgworkneuralis, sometimes I wish I worked in a place that had more frequent sales10:45
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neuralisBurgwork: i can understand that. it's exactly the same with working on all long projects -- frequent microsuccesses (milestones, etc) make everyone a lot happier10:46
Burgworkneuralis, what about you? you haven't been around here very much10:48
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neuralisBurgwork: i've been extremely busy with research, some work on the personal genome project (http://pgen.us) and recently one laptop per child10:50
Burgworkwhat are you doing for olpc?10:52
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neuralisBurgwork: pushing python :) 10:54
=== Pygi pokes Keybuk
neuralisBurgwork: more seriously, advising them on some of the system management aspects10:55
LurePygi: no Keybuk10:55
PygiLure: ah,kk10:55
ptlooo, neuralis :)11:03
neuralisptlo: long time no talk, still haven't gotten around to replying to your mail11:04
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KaiL*extrem doof guck*11:11
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KaiLhmm, nu geht wieder alles11:13
KaiLauch gut11:13
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KaiLups, wrong window :)11:14
CarlFKKamion: (or anyone that wants to see)  drive by bug report: daily setup errored installing kernel - I am running out, back in a few hours  - log files: http://dev.personnelware.com/carl/temp/Mar24/c/11:16
infinityCarlFK: 403 on syslog.11:19
lamontmvo: update-manager needs a versioned depends or two11:20
lamontImportError: /usr/lib/libcairo.so.2: undefined symbol: FT_GlyphSlot_Embolden11:20
lamonthrm... or is that libcairo....11:20
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zygamvo: ping^^^11:20
infinityThat's cairo having broken depends.11:20
zygalamont: oh, sorry - didn't notice 'mvo' in there11:21
lamontzyga: np11:21
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Amaranthnetwork-manager seems to be failing on wpasupplicant not being in main11:38
infinityYes, I know.11:38
Kamion20:27 < Amaranth> it's fixed in the latest isos11:38
KamionAmaranth: please, please, please don't say that until you *know*11:38
AmaranthKamion: It's not?11:38
KamionAmaranth: we haven't done the ISO update yet, no11:38
Kamionone is planned11:39
AmaranthKamion: Err, everyone I asked said it was.11:39
Kamioneveryone you asked was wrong, I'm afraid11:39
_ionHave the n-m build-deps been fixed yet?11:39
Kamionif you install breezy and upgrade from security updates, you're fine11:39
=== Amaranth stops relying on #ubuntu for these questions
Kamionbut no updated ISOs have been made available11:39
Amaranth_ion: I just commented on that11:39
infinity_ion: Nope, bug keybuk.  I'm not going to touch until until I know if he had a valid reason for doing it that way.11:39
KamionI hope to do it next week11:40
Amaranthdoesn't pitti have to approve main inclusions?11:40
_ionamaranth: Yes, but wpasupplicant shouldn't be needed at all in the build-deps.11:40
infinityHe's already approved wpasupplicant, but we haven't promoted it yet.11:40
Amaranthwell, anyone impatient can use apt-get source to build it themselves11:41
Kamionwpasupplicant drags in qt4 as well and I'm kinda reluctant to promote11:41
infinityOh, you're kidding.11:41
Kamionsee anastacia ...11:41
infinityWell, that's going to beed to be fixed, then.11:41
infinityneed, too.11:41
Amaranthcrap, i hope i didn't just install qt411:42
=== Kamion -> bed, then away from the computer for the weekend; manage your own archive, folks ;-)
Amaranthnight kamion11:42
Amaranthit doesn't seem to depend on qt4 here11:44
infinityNo, but wpagui does, which comes from the same source package.11:45
infinitySo promoting the source to main means promoting libqt4-dev to main.11:45
infinityWhich so ain't gonna happen on my watch either.  I'm with Kamion.11:46
Amaranthah, is see11:47
Amaranthhmm, i guess either make network-manager only suggest wpasupplicant or make the package stop building wpagui11:48
infinityOr build the other wpagui that's gt3.11:48
infinityqt3, too.11:48
infinityOdd type, that one.11:48
infinityAnd that typO too.11:49
=== infinity gives up.
Amaranthoh well, i guess people will have to wait until monday to get the new crack :)11:49
SEJeffBut monday will be n-m 0.6 with working wpa?11:52
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