=== Seveas [n=seveas@ubuntu/member/seveas] has joined #ubuntu-motu === hallz [n=hlnt@200.217.203.196] has joined #ubuntu-motu === Seveaz [n=seveas@ubuntu/member/seveas] has joined #ubuntu-motu [12:31] siretart: if I want to get reviewer priviledge on REVU, are you the right person to ask? [12:34] minghua: yes. tell me your login id [12:35] siretart: minghua@rice.edu [12:37] minghua: try reviewing now === bddebian [n=bddebian@71.224.172.103] has joined #ubuntu-motu [12:42] Heya gang [12:42] lo [12:43] siretart: forgot to bring my gpg key with me :-( will test as soon as possible, thanks! [12:43] hi bddebian [12:43] Hello Erlang, minghua [12:43] minghua: you should be able to comment on any upload now [12:45] siretart: good, that's all I need. I'll test later. [12:48] what's wrong with upstream no willing to check for a required library in configure? [12:59] hub: they have no clue or interest? ;) [01:00] that is what I think [01:01] https://savannah.nongnu.org/bugs/index.php?func=detailitem&item_id=16159 [01:01] I'm packaging this library to get sflphone after [01:01] (a friend of mine work on sflphone) === raphink [n=raphink@ubuntu/member/raphink] has joined #ubuntu-motu === na7e [n=nate@198.150.12.32] has joined #ubuntu-motu === seth [n=seth@ubuntu/member/seth] has joined #ubuntu-motu === lakin [n=lakin@dsl-hill-66-18-228-60-cgy.nucleus.com] has joined #ubuntu-motu === jtshaw [n=jshaw@65.207.116.250] has joined #ubuntu-motu === na7e [n=nate@198.150.12.32] has joined #ubuntu-motu === truz24 [n=truz24@12-203-70-118.client.insightBB.com] has joined #ubuntu-motu === raphink [n=raphink@ubuntu/member/raphink] has joined #ubuntu-motu === truz24 [n=truz24@12-203-70-118.client.insightBB.com] has joined #ubuntu-motu [02:11] welcome back LaserJock :-) [02:12] hi [02:12] hi ajmitch [02:16] hi minghua and ajmitch [02:16] hi ajmitch minghua LaserJock [02:17] hi raphink ;-) [02:17] :) === raphink doesn't get what happened with karma on LP [02:17] I get 19000 karma today [02:17] I had 500 yesterday [02:17] raphink: it got adjusted :) === ajmitch has about 64k or so now [02:17] 12177 for me, woot! [02:17] ajmitch hehe nice :) [02:18] well it's just fair that devs get more karma than translators ;) [02:18] I went from 94 to 3400 something yesterday. [02:18] 65765 now :) [02:18] specs give the most karma [02:18] yeah [02:18] and you can write specs on your own products :) [02:18] riddell got up to 111k [02:18] with lots of specs [02:18] ajmitch hehe ;) === ajmitch starts up a few products & writes some specs ;) [02:18] "to infinity and beyond!" [02:18] at least it's logical [02:18] raphink: one of the top 5 has about 15 specs on some product he works on [02:18] you won't think a translator is "more active" than a core-dev anymore ;) [02:19] hehe [02:19] I just started triaging like 2 weeks ago. I didn't know triaging was that valuable. [02:19] especially as karma has some value for ubuntu affiliates & partners now.. [02:19] Erlang: it wasn't, so far [02:19] raphink: still no karma for uploads though [02:20] ajmitch that will come, hopefully [02:20] ajmitch: no? that stinks [02:20] there should be karma for package maintenance and uploads [02:20] and more karma for main packages [02:20] obviously [02:20] " Launchpad Activity [02:20] [02:20] 5 points for each full time employee in the top 100 Launchpad users at the time application is made." [02:20] for the ubuntu partners programme [02:20] I need some advice on bug: 32159. It look important to me. [02:20] yeah there have been karma inflation recently :-) [02:21] raphink: there'd also be karma for branch commits once we switch to hct, too [02:21] so that not only the uploader gets karma [02:21] good :) [02:21] at least it's good to have a nice karma :) [02:21] why should I get huge karma for sponsoring 100 uploads, for example? [02:22] somehow it was frustrating to keep having a karma under 1000 [02:22] yeah [02:22] my karma did get over 2K with the old numbers [02:22] nice :) [02:22] mine was at 500 currently [02:23] ajmitch: is there a URL that describes how much karma for each activity [02:23] LaserJock: nope, they don't want to encourage people doing things just for karma points ;) [02:24] hehe [02:24] that's safe [02:25] so I encourage people to just keep bug fixing & uploading :) [02:25] we have a large pile of bugs [02:26] and a growing number of complaining users who don't like their bugs being ignored :) [02:26] malone doesn't help sometimes.. [02:26] it's not useful [02:26] the search functions are not very good so far [02:27] s/not very good/often horrible/ [02:27] yes indeed [02:30] raphink: caught up on the KDE upload backlog? [02:30] how do you mean? [02:30] wasn't there a large pile of KDE fixes to get uploaded? [02:31] and you wanted into main so you could help out, and keep the pile down? [02:31] hmm not right now [02:31] I wanted into main to be able to apply fixes directly and sponsor uploads if needed [02:31] to help out [02:31] ;) [02:31] right [02:31] I did a few fixes last week [02:31] on k3b, systemsettings and others [02:32] saved time to riddell for sure as I could just fix them and upload === hub [n=hub@toronto-hs-216-138-231-194.s-ip.magma.ca] has joined #ubuntu-motu [02:34] hi hub [02:35] hm, how many people know the rules we agreed on for fixing/patching debian packages for dapper? [02:36] eg not adding dpatch, not making gratuitous changes? [02:36] it's stated clearly on the wiki iirc [02:36] sure, but is it clear enough? [02:37] not sure [02:37] ajmitch: I don't know the rules, but I usually do common sense [02:37] there's a few fixes assigned to motureviewers, we'd want to check them [02:37] hub: sure [02:37] ajmitch: is it easy to become debian developer? [02:37] we got a few complaints from debian for adding dpatch, etc [02:37] hub: it's long & painful :) [02:37] :-/ [02:38] yeah :( [02:38] 'cause otherwise I would just package there and sync in universe [02:38] even ian murdock is still waiting [02:38] LOL [02:38] LOL [02:38] not kidding [02:38] he's in the list [02:38] not done with the NM process [02:38] hub: average wait just to get an AM assigned is around 6 months at the moment [02:39] AM? [02:39] application manager [02:39] ah [02:39] hub: https://nm.debian.org/nmlist.php [02:39] who sends you questions, reviews what you do, etc [02:39] so I just should forget [02:39] (s)he files a report for the front desk [02:39] hub: see how many people you know in this list ;) [02:39] it is more the cathedral than the bazaar [02:39] who approves & then passes it onto the debian account manager for processing :) [02:40] all this may take > 1 year on average [02:40] yet there are some awful packages in Debian ... [02:40] sure [02:40] it seems to me that the awful packages are not from DDs themselves [02:40] but rather DDs sponsoring bad packages [02:40] without reviewing well enough [02:40] so it's a lack of review from DDs on other contributors' work [02:41] more than a bad work from DDs themselves [02:41] or so it seems to me [02:42] yeah [02:42] DDs aren't perfect ;) [02:42] of course :) [02:42] They aren't? === mhz [n=mhz_chil@moinmoin/fan/mhz] has joined #ubuntu-motu [02:42] no, only bddebian is. [02:42] I'd like my reviewing guide to be read by some DDs, improved and spread [02:42] lol === bddebian kicks crimsun in the nuts :-) [02:43] ow. [02:43] ouch [02:43] bddebian: play nice === bddebian is probably the furthest from perfect in this channel [02:43] raphink: I wonder if I shouldn't sit and write a complete Debian Packager Guide [02:43] complete? [02:43] ajmitch: Oh sure, don't make him be nice to me.. :-) [02:43] ajmitch:600pages [02:43] do you have 10 years? [02:43] hub: LaserJock is doing it [02:43] for ubuntu [02:43] raphink: oh [02:44] hub: if you want to help just talk to him [02:44] raphink: ok === ajmitch would hate to think how unreadable a 'complete' guide would turn out [02:44] sorry, I was writing an email [02:44] I still have to schedule time [02:44] ajmitch: indeed [02:44] LaserJock: it is OK [02:44] maybe I should just write code [02:44] hub: right now, what I've got is at doc.ubuntu.com [02:45] LaserJock: ok [02:45] hub: you are certainly welcome to contribute :-) [02:45] I was more thinking "for hardcopy printing" === grobinson [n=grobinso@pool-71-106-136-129.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu [02:45] hub: in fact right now it is just me and I have a deadline [02:45] LaserJock: oh [02:45] hub: it is also shipped on the cds [02:45] hub: it is a part of the ubuntu-docs package [02:45] hub: you can view it in the Gnome or KDE help [02:46] although the KDE version is quite old I think === softwarecommie [n=software@pool-71-106-136-129.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu [02:46] and in devhelp? :-) [02:47] I don't think so [02:47] could be usefull [02:47] and not hard to do [02:47] although I just got all the ubuntu docs into the doc-base registry [02:47] I'll investigate [02:47] do you can view it with dwww or doc-central [02:48] hub: a hardcopy printing would be nice... but how many people would buy that? [02:48] raphink: not sure. that is more "the publisher business" [02:48] I would, but I'm a corner case. I really dislike reading from a screen. [02:48] worst case scenario it would just be online [02:48] crimsun: I would too [02:48] crimsun: same here === hub like books [02:48] hmm sure [02:48] same here [02:49] in fact I have to much book to move in less than 2 month [02:49] *sigh* [02:49] I think a publisher most likely would refuse publishing this [02:49] I wouldn't, but that's because I'm unlikely to spend money on a packaging guide [02:49] but it's worth writing [02:49] certainly worth writing [02:49] raphink: O'Reilly or No Starch comes to mind [02:49] ajmitch: well, I'd *read*. I'm not committing to buying ;-) [02:49] sure hub [02:49] but that is not the problem [02:49] can anyone here "pull in a new package" of BitTornado 0.3.15 so that it can be included into Breezy backports? [02:49] would be refused, I would put it online [02:50] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-backports/2006-March/000760.html [02:50] it can even be a book under Documentation GPL as "dive into python" with an online version and a printed one [02:50] BrianG: we're way past upstream version freeze (UVF); you'd need to write a UVF exception [02:50] i dont write things, i just ubuntu [02:50] and because it's in main, the hurdle is much higher [02:50] use* [02:50] heh [02:51] I just joined this channel; are you talking about documentation for packaging? [02:51] softwarecommie: yeah, somewhat [02:52] softwarecommie: currently, yes === G0SUB [n=ghoseb@ubuntu/member/g0sub] has joined #ubuntu-motu [02:52] ok [02:53] ok well [02:53] crimsun: how do i write a UVF? is that like some kind of form letter? [02:53] I'll head to bed [02:53] bye [02:53] bye raphink [02:53] cya raphink [02:54] UVF exception rather [02:56] BrianG: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2006-February/000545.html [02:56] to reply to raphink, who is gone, the ultimate goal would be to get it under both licenses === marcin` [n=user@194.114.146.58] has joined #ubuntu-motu [02:57] crimsun: thanks [02:57] BrianG: note that it's a main package, not a universe package. [02:58] tell that to John Dong :) [02:58] who's requesting it, he or you? [02:58] what does that mean? i'm just basicly trying to use the new version of BitTornado [02:58] me, but he sent me to MOTU [02:59] do i have to be able to make the package myself in order to request a UVF exception? [02:59] incorrect workflow [03:00] no, but it sure helps if there is a Ubuntu package of it already [03:00] ah [03:00] so i'm totally in limbo and not really sure what i'm doing [03:00] should i go and report a bug? [03:01] it's probably too late to get a new bittornado into dapper [03:01] so it can't go into backports either [03:01] BrianG: yes, file a bug, but be aware that you're dealing with a main package [03:01] so i'm barred from the tracker i use untill October? [03:01] barred? no one's barred [03:02] what's that mean.. a main package? [03:02] well i am from the tracker.. [03:02] they refuse any old versions of bittornado [03:02] we (MOTU) only handle universe and multiverse packages [03:02] okay [03:02] (a few of us have main upload rights, but that's a small fraction) [03:03] the process for requesting a UVF exception differs slightly between main and universe/multiverse packages [03:03] so i shouldn't have been sent to MOTU in the first place, right? [03:03] being that it's a main package [03:03] you've seen the directions for the latter. For the former, you still need the information, but you have to ask one of the core devs (mdz iirc) [03:04] right, you were misdirected (hence, "incorrect workflow") [03:04] thanks for the information === minghua [n=minghua@69-153-139-36.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu [03:07] hi minghua === yves [n=yves@200.140.129.56] has joined #ubuntu-motu [03:07] hi LaserJock and everyone [03:08] 'lo minghua [03:08] hi [03:09] minghua: do you use KDE at all? [03:10] LaserJock: not really. all my KDE usage is for testing scim [03:10] ok fine === zenrox [n=zenrox@71.115.198.118] has joined #ubuntu-motu === Amaranth [n=amaranth@ubuntu/member/amaranth] has joined #ubuntu-motu === Amaranth [n=amaranth@ubuntu/member/amaranth] has joined #ubuntu-motu === slomo_ [n=slomo@ubuntu/member/slomo] has joined #ubuntu-motu [03:30] does anyone here know of something I may be able to work on or where I can go to find something? [03:31] softwarecommie: we have thousands of bugs awaiting your triage skills in https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+bugs [03:34] looks good, thanks === Kyral [n=Chris@ubuntu/member/kyral] has joined #ubuntu-motu === Se7h [n=MUAHAHAH@81.193.81.202] has joined #ubuntu-motu [03:48] ....I hate GCC 4 right now === tritium [n=tritium@ubuntu/member/tritium] has joined #ubuntu-motu === mat [n=mat@igoan/mat] has joined #ubuntu-motu === seth [n=seth@ubuntu/member/seth] has joined #ubuntu-motu [04:09] could someone please review 2176 in REVU? [04:11] it's native? [04:12] ubuntu native, you mean? [04:12] it's a universe candidate-candidate [04:12] or debian-native, irrelevant, really [04:12] but is it from upstream or your own made-for-{Debian,Ubuntu} package? [04:13] I am upstream and debianized it [04:13] are you _positive_ you want -X in the version, then? === G0SUB [n=ghoseb@ubuntu/member/g0sub] has joined #ubuntu-motu [04:14] normally if it's native, you'd make it 0.3, not 0.3-1 [04:14] hmm I'll read about that in the policy then [04:14] thank you [04:15] also, change the target distribution [04:15] [unless you're packaging specifically for Debian Sid and want to sync it over] [04:16] ok [04:16] don't build-dep on build-essential [04:16] nictuku: I find that both debian/control.in and debian/control exist [04:17] doesn't control.in creates control everytime by cdbs? [04:17] nictuku: are you sure that's desired (I don't know anything about cdbs)? [04:17] yes, and if cdbs is adding build-essential, that's /nasty/ [04:17] I guess I did [04:18] years in copyright(s) == good [04:18] looks ok for a cursory glance aside from those [04:19] ah, btw, if I use ${python:Depends}, it gets my default python for its dependency - python2.4. But the software is supposedly agnostic. Is there any problem to use manual values there? [04:20] crimsun, years in copyright, you mean in debian/copyright or in the source files? === nictuku taking notes [04:20] both. [04:20] notes added [04:21] it's good to talk to upstream directly, huh? :-) [04:23] minghua: absolutely :) [04:23] I'll abuse of your helpfulness and send some other packages I need reviewing too hehe [04:27] https://dev.ubuntubrasil.org/trac/pycacic/ticket/16 === LaserJock [n=mantha@ubuntu/member/laserjock] has joined #ubuntu-motu [04:27] minghua: your suggestion of 1.1+revertedto+1.0.2 is fine [04:27] RE: wesnoth [04:29] what release should I use now? "dapper" ? [04:29] nictuku: yes [04:29] granted, there's always something akin to: xserver-xorg-input-synaptics 0.14.3+seriouslythistime-0ubuntu3 [04:29] crimsun: okay, thanks. not really my suggestion though (the OP's) [04:31] crimsun, is it wrong, as mingua believes, to have both debian/control and debian/control.in in a cdbs package? [04:31] *minghua [04:32] nictuku: I am just speculating :-) as I've said I don't know anything aboug cdbs at all [04:33] nictuku: it's not wrong per se, but it's certainly a bit cluttered [04:33] yes, sorry, I got your point. [04:34] strange thing is debian/rules clean does not delete debian/control, as I would expect === jtshaw [n=jshaw@65.207.116.250] has joined #ubuntu-motu [04:36] clean:: [04:36] rm -rf debian/control [04:36] s/-rf/-f/ [04:36] how does universe updates work? will it only accept security updates when dapper is released? [04:37] nictuku: essentially. [04:37] hmm will do [04:38] security + critical bug fix (data loss, for example), I suppose [04:38] yep [04:38] we have dapper-security _and_ dapper-updates after all [04:41] clean:: rm -r debian/control is bad. dpkg-buildpackage does a clean *after* creating debian/control :-). I'll have to pick a better time for that [04:42] minghua: did you happen to read ubuntu-science today? [04:43] nictuku: why would you even consider removing it? :) [04:43] nictuku: then use pre-clean [04:43] LaserJock: yes, actually just 20 minutes ago, and was admiring your persistence on the education/science issue :-) [04:44] minghua: lol, I'm starting to wonder if I'm totally out of my mind :-) [04:44] of course you are, just like every grad student is/has been [04:44] well, at least I'm not alone [04:44] LaserJock: no you are not. in principle I agree with you [04:45] ajmitch, well the guys here made my mind about that. it's useless to distribute debian/control if you ahve debian/control.in [04:45] nictuku: it's not useless, no [04:45] LaserJock: I just don't think it's worth discussing in detail before we really have the choice [04:46] minghua: well, it all got started because seb128 said he wouldn't add a Science menu until there were enough apps to populate it [04:46] crimsun, that was my personal conclusion from what you guys tried to say, and I got it wrong again.. :-) [04:46] nictuku: not wrong, just be careful with choosing extremes [04:47] nictuku: my personal opinion, shared by many, is that debian/control should never be rewritten automatically at build time [04:47] LaserJock: hmm, now I remeber you've told me that. what happens if we have a .desktop with only Science, but not Education? [04:47] LaserJock: it will end up in menu "Others"? [04:47] minghua: usually it goes to Other :( [04:48] minghua: but I really hate having to put Education on a non-educational app just to get it out of Other [04:48] LaserJock: in that case I am on your side, Other is better than Education for research-only apps [04:48] ajmitch, I should then make it static and stop cdbs from re-creating it. All changes I must make after that will go to debian/control... right?! [04:49] nictuku: that's one option [04:49] it's prettier IMO [04:49] or you can use control.in, but only update it when you want to [04:49] which I don't like myself :) [04:49] minghua: and eventually if there are enough apps in Other than I can really have a case to ask seb128 for a Science menu and it would be quite trivial to do since the .desktop files would be in place [04:49] DEB_AUTO_UPDATE_DEBIAN_CONTROL := yes s/yes/no/ :-) [04:50] nictuku: yeah, that's evil stuff there [04:50] I've even read that was not recommended, but I forgot it there [04:51] LaserJock: exactly. and a long Other menu has more pressure than a long Education menu ;-) [04:51] nictuku: does that auto-update-debian/control rewrite the Build-Depends: line as well? [04:52] minghua: it will if @cdbs@ is used [04:52] does the 2nd item of http://ftp-master.debian.org/REJECT-FAQ.html have any baring on the debian/control issue? [04:53] yes, replacing @cdbs@ for garbage, including "build-essential" [04:53] ajmitch, nictuku: Hmm, I remember it's explicitly forbidden in Debian, let me check [04:54] I've remove that as you guys recommended, anyway. And I agree it's really bad [04:54] *removed [04:55] minghua: it is :) [05:00] ajmitch: good to be confirmed. but I can't seem to find the reference :-( === godiane [n=godiane@58.69.182.227] has joined #ubuntu-motu === Mez [n=Mez@ubuntu/member/mez] has joined #ubuntu-motu [05:07] the firefox in dapper (which used pango) is pretty broken for me === minghua sighs [05:13] hi [05:13] LaserJock im with a 'litle' problem here [05:16] what's up Se7h [05:17] sorry if I'm cluttering the revu notification mailing-list with my buggy and frequent dput's.. [05:18] LaserJock i've been unable to build this python library, cus it seems that after 'building X in ...' [05:18] minghua: which language? [05:18] it wont find the python-dev files [05:19] must be some 'trick i dont know [05:19] lol [05:19] G0SUB: sorry, what are you refering to? firefox? [05:19] should I really mention nmu in my packages? [05:19] nictuku: not if it is for Ubuntu [05:20] nictuku: lintian warning? just ignore it [05:20] in a native package, I mean [05:20] ok [05:20] minghua: yeah, firefox [05:21] Se7h: is python-dev a build-dep? [05:21] G0SUB: no, it doesn't has much to do with language, just slow rendering, jerky response, unusually small fonts, etc. [05:21] oh! [05:22] and all these go away if I use MOZ_DISABLE_PANGO=1 [05:24] if you have remove non-free parts of a original tarball should you rename the package .dfsg. ? [05:25] LaserJock a build-dep? how so ? [05:25] LaserJock: some rename the package name, some rename the version number, I don't think I've seen a consensus [05:26] Se7h: is it in the build dependencies of the source package? [05:26] minghua: but dfsg is the way to go? [05:27] LaserJock: well, maybe not, but dfsg definitely catches eyes, so that's probably the reason I see them :-P [05:27] LaserJock oh right...forgot that part [05:27] lol [05:27] LaserJock: I'm quite sure there are changes like from foo_1.2.3 to foo_1.2.3a [05:27] I'm just wondering if I should suggest it in the packaging guide === GNULinuxer [n=ghoseb@ubuntu/member/g0sub] has joined #ubuntu-motu [05:28] LaserJock: ask on #ubuntu-devel, perhaps? [05:28] it's even worth a mail to ubuntu-devel@l.u.c IMO [05:28] (if said package is not in debian, that is) [05:29] I think REVU 2178 fixed all problems minghua and crimsun noticed in pycacic. thanks! === minghua takes that as a nudge to review the new upload :-) [05:30] nictuku: what is the pycacic/control file for? [05:31] oops [05:31] LaserJock it was just that dumb me :p [05:32] minghua, ornament :-) [05:32] (fixed) [05:33] Se7h: well, hopefully it will work now [05:35] nictuku: you have the old FSF address in debian/copyright, but that's a minor issue [05:35] nictuku: I am not qualified to review python package though, so I can only check these cosmetic issues [05:35] I really appreciate your help [05:42] hmm Foundation, Inc., 51 Franklin St, Fifth Floor, Boston, MA 02110-1301 USA === papyromancer [n=drew@cpe-24-165-210-176.midsouth.res.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-motu === G0SUB [n=ghoseb@ubuntu/member/g0sub] has joined #ubuntu-motu [05:49] for x in $(find .); do ~/fsf.sh $x;done :-) === jaldhar [n=jaldhar@c-68-38-202-139.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu [05:52] hi jaldhar === Hobbsee [n=Hobbsee@ubuntu/member/hobbsee] has joined #ubuntu-motu [05:58] hi Hobbsee [05:58] hi LaserJock [06:01] hey Hobbsee [06:01] hey ajmitch === irvin [n=irvin@ubuntu/member/irvin] has joined #ubuntu-motu === Gloubiboulga [n=gauvain@ubuntu/member/gloubiboulga] has joined #ubuntu-motu === highvoltage [n=Jono@196.207.41.251] has joined #ubuntu-motu [06:36] LaserJock [06:36] cp: omitting directory `examples/data' [06:36] make: *** [install] Error 1 [06:36]