[12:10] <CarlFK> infinity: doh.  I keep meaning look into that... fixed c$ chmod -R a+r *
[01:10] <neuralis> infinity: mail to adconrad@u.c will end up in the right place, right?
[02:32] <OgMaciel> anyone gonna be at Linux World in Boston this April by any chance?
[04:42] <infinity> neuralis: Yes.
[04:57] <_ion> Any X maintainers online? /tmp/xserver-xorg.config.258983: line 957: syntax error near unexpected token `esac'
[04:57] <_ion> xserver-xorg failed to preconfigure, with exit status 2
[04:58] <crimsun> _ion: it's already fixed in 25 (as of 6 hours ago)
[04:58] <_ion> Ok. :-) The updated version hasn't got to se.archive yet, then.
[05:14] <Amaranth> _ion: That's why when I'm using the devel version I switch to the archive.ubuntu.com repos
[05:15] <Amaranth> _ion: then switch back when/if i get to a stable release
[05:17] <_ion> I don't know why, but using the main archive is quite problematic at least in Finland. File downloads (during apt-get update/install) seem to stall until a timeout randomly and often. I have noticed the problem with multiple different computers and multiple ISPs.
[05:18] <_ion> The fact that fi.archive.u.c points to archive.u.c causes problems for many users. I tell them to switch to se.archive (Sweden is our neighbor).
[05:23] <Kyral> you sure it points to archive.u.c?
[05:24] <infinity> Yes.,
[05:24] <infinity> (base)adconrad@cthulhu:~$ host fi.archive.ubuntu.com
[05:24] <infinity> fi.archive.ubuntu.com   A       82.211.81.151
[05:24] <infinity> fi.archive.ubuntu.com   A       82.211.81.182
[05:24] <Kyral> (Just pulled a DNS record from it and don't see any CNAME record)
[05:24] <infinity> (base)adconrad@cthulhu:~$ host archive.ubuntu.com
[05:24] <infinity> archive.ubuntu.com      A       82.211.81.182
[05:24] <infinity> archive.ubuntu.com      A       82.211.81.151
[05:24] <Kyral> oh
[05:24] <Kyral> *feels like an idiot*
[05:24] <Kyral> I should have checked for that....
[05:30] <wasabi_> Anybody aware of hte current state of NFSv4?  ie is user-based auth working?
[05:30] <wasabi_> Or is it still host based?
[05:30] <wasabi_> And does Ubuntu have the neccassary pieces?
[05:30] <_ion> I tested NFSv4 with Kerberos a few months ago, it seemed very unstable.
[05:30] <_ion> The Linux implementation, that is.
[05:31] <_ion> It might have matured since then.
[05:31] <wasabi_> Bah.
[05:31] <wasabi_> Trying to even find some docs on how to set up the export
[05:35] <wasabi_> Darnit. Latest dapper update made my mythtv box unresponsive on reboot. =(
[05:35] <wasabi_> prolly stuck at grub again or something, argh.
[05:59] <nictuku> fix for bug #26601 http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2184
[05:59] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 26601 in bittornado bittornado-gui "btdownloadgui crashes on startup" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/26601
[06:00] <nictuku> the package needs some cleanups
[06:01] <nictuku> my fix was a oneliner, I didn't want to mess with it
[08:25] <dieman> bastards! broke my networking ;)
[08:25] <dieman> (wpa)
[08:25] <crimsun> pager /usr/share/doc/wpasupplicant/README.Debian
[08:25] <dieman> plus, wpa + ifplugd doesn't work as well out of interfaces. hrmpfh.
[08:26] <dieman> yah
[08:26] <dieman> i know
[08:27] <crimsun> I didn't have time to muck, so I just used wpa-conf /etc/wpa_supplicant.conf.dpkg-bak
[08:27] <dieman> its interesting, but wont work in the long run to do it that way -- how do you know if you have link state without having wpa supplicant configuring wireless interfaces?
[08:27] <dieman> with ifplugd
[08:27] <dieman> and then when you do, how the heck does ifplugd know to fire off ifup to what interface again? :)
[08:28] <dieman> its far too late to be thinking about this, i need some sleep
[08:48] <infinity> Riddell: I added a /var/run/utmp to the LP buildd chroots so I could get kdenetwork up to date, but lamont's "The (non)presense of files on the build system should not affect what gets build and installed for the target system" argument holds, and I'd appreciate a less confused kdenetwork source package uploaded at some point.
[08:49] <glick> scuse me i gotta quick question
[08:50] <glick> now that apple has patented the automatic updates notifier, what will that mean for ubuntus auto update notifier feature?
[08:50] <infinity> Nothing.
[08:50] <glick> what do you mean nothing
[08:51] <infinity> Apple's patent is reasonably specific on certain features we don't do (ie: when an application is accessed that has updates, the updater will fetch them, etc), plus most of their patent has lots of prior art.
[08:51] <infinity> In other words: We don't much care.
[08:51] <glick> fuckin gay ass software patent bullshit
[08:52] <infinity> I appreciate your enthusiasm, but please tone it down.
[08:53] <_ion> Fortunately software patents are not legal in EU  yet.
[08:53] <glick> does that mean that EU doesnt recognize us software patents?
[08:53] <_ion> Of course the megacorporations are brib^Wlobbying the lawmakers all the time.
[08:53] <_ion> glick: Yes.
[08:54] <infinity> The EU doesn't recognise US patents anyway, they have their own patent office(s).
[08:55] <zakame> hi all
[08:55] <Burgundavia> glick: currently whether or not a EU county recognizes US software and business process patents is left up to each county
[08:55] <Burgundavia> the EU patent directive would unify that for the entire EU, either way
[08:55] <glick> but so no European country recognizes them?
[08:56] <Burgundavia> I believe that the UK recognizes them. I have no idea about other countries
[08:56] <glick> psshht
[08:56] <infinity> Not that it matters.  Patents are meaningless without someone taking legal action to defend one.  And if that happened in this case, there's enough prior art to get the patent revoked, I'd suspect.
[08:57] <infinity> Either way, I don't see any reason to be concerned.  It's a curiosity.
[08:57] <glick> but then why get the patent/
[08:57] <glick> ?
[08:57] <_ion> infinity: You need money to defend yourself.
[08:57] <infinity> Much like the kids who patented a method for swinging sideways on a swing.  Neat, but not relevant to reality.
[08:58] <infinity> _ion: If the defendant was a corporation, they'd survive.  If Apple decided to attack, say, Debian, I'm sure the EFF would be all over it.
[08:58] <Burgundavia> apple attacking an OSS project with a patent would be a suicidally stupid move
[08:59] <Burgundavia> the have got a lot of hackers hooked on Apple stuff
[08:59] <infinity> Yeah, I'm sure everyone would throw out their iPods in disgust.

[09:00] <Burgundavia> no, but it wouldn't earn them any brownie points
[09:00] <Burgundavia> plus patent lawsuits are not "cool". Apple is very much about cool
[09:00] <infinity> They may be cool, but they're also the second most litigous software company after Adobe.
[09:00] <glick> heh
[09:04] <Burgundavia> besides, patent are better left unlitigated. If you go to court you might lose your toy
[09:06] <Burgundavia> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fleet_in_being in another field
[09:30] <Kamion> CarlFK: your kernel installation problem is because gpgv is failing due to a badly skewed local clock. Evidently we haven't quite nailed down all the problems with that case yet.
[09:31] <_ion> Is he not using NTP?
[09:34] <Kamion> _ion: not in the installer he isn't
[09:35] <Kamion> and in any case that doesn't excuse bugs
[09:50] <infinity> I'm guessing that wasn't well thought-out.
[09:53] <infinity> Kamion: Do you know if beagle was meant to be promoted to main, or if this was just a very poorly thought-out feature that should be reverted?
[09:55] <Burgundavia> infinity: I think seb128 did it so that people, if they install beagle, could use the search
[09:55] <infinity> (Either way, it was poorly though out, since beagle doesn't exist on all arches, but I'm trying to figure out if I should upload to completely revert the change, or upload to add [amd64 i386 powerpc ia64]  to that build-dep...
[09:55] <infinity> Burgundavia: Yes, but you can't build-dep on universe stuff from main. :)
[09:55] <Burgundavia> indeed
[09:55] <infinity> Burgundavia: Hence the question.  "Was it meant to be promoted, or an oops?"
[09:56] <Burgundavia> I would rather go for the "not well thought out" answer
[10:12] <Kamion> infinity: pitti approved it I think, but it depends on a big pile of CIL stuff that he didn't approve
[10:12] <Kamion> so I believe it was meant to be promoted *and* an oops
[10:13] <infinity> Check.  I'll wait for Monday to resolve that one, then.
[10:21] <mwright1night> There is a bug with nautilus the default copy action is cp -a meaning that if you have done chmod g+s on a directory, ordinary users can't have the permissions of the group inherited by copying into a group folder
[10:22] <Burgundavia> Kamion: did I not read something about you not turning the computer on this weekend? :)
[11:20] <mdke> mwright1night, you can report bugs here: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+bugs
[11:49] <mdke> sladen, what is wrong with the use of sudo -i? you just slammed it on the mailing list but two core developers have recommended it. I'm interested in what is wrong with it because we should cut it out of the documentation if it is really a bad idea
[12:45] <sladen> mdke: it's like lynching the security guard and then  (a) wedging the front-door wide open and  (b) removing the vistors' book.
[01:06] <tseng> sudo -u foo -H does the trick for me
[01:06] <tseng> in most cases
[01:19] <ogra> fabbione, https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-users/2006-March/071258.html
[01:19] <glick> hey where would report a bug about pmount?
[01:19] <glick> to the author 
[01:19] <glick> or to ubuntu?
[01:20] <tseng> the author is the maintainer of the ubuntu package
[01:20] <tseng> he will get it
[01:22] <glick> so where/how would i submit the bug to?
[01:31] <Tonio_> hello everyone
[01:31] <Tonio_> _ion: ping ?
[01:33] <Tonio_> _ion: the network-manager uploaded to main doesn't include the libnm-util* packages..... which causes knetworkmanager to ftbfs
[01:40] <_ion> tonio: I don't think the binary is even built yet. Only the source package is in main so far.
[01:40] <Tonio_> _ion: ftbfs ?
[01:40] <Tonio_> it should be built in a cycle of a few hours only
[01:40] <_ion> tonio: For some reason wpasupplicant has been added to the package's build-deps, and it's not yet in main.
[01:40] <Tonio_> _ion: that explains ;)
[01:40] <_ion> Also docbook-to-man is in the build-deps, and it's not used by the package either.
[01:41] <Tonio_> _ion: I'm gonna look at the source package, that might explain why I don't get libnm-util
[02:05] <fabbione> ogra: point him to ports.ubuntu.com
[02:05] <fabbione> ogra: sparc 5 i doubt is going to work anyway
[02:05] <fabbione> ogra: we only support 64 bit processors
[02:05] <ogra> ah, k
[02:31] <_ion> ddp nnqn
[02:32] <Yagisan> _ion: why is ubuntu dapper upside down ?
[02:32] <Kinnison> _ion: apart from a missing 'n' (u?) in your ubuntu, very cute
[02:33] <_ion> yagisan: Because you're on the opposite side of the globe.
[02:33] <zakame> er?
[02:33] <_ion> Whoops. :-) ddp nunqn
[02:35] <giftnudel> _ion: I still like to know how you do that ;)
[03:53] (infinity/#ubuntu-devel) joelbryan: What do you mean "include a license agreement"?
[03:53] <infinity> joelbryan: The software should have a license, certainly, but you shouldn't have a click-wrap license agreement, no.
[03:53] <enrico> infinity: the debtags I have here is 1.5.5
[03:53] <joelbryan> ok
[03:54] <joelbryan> infinity: just username setup.
[03:54] <enrico> infinity: and libapt-front is 2.3.9
[03:54] <enrico> infinity: there's been many important changes in the meantime
[03:55] <infinity> enrico: Yes, I realise we're likely out of date, since we've been in an upstream version freeze for a while.
[03:55] <infinity> enrico: That doesn't change the fact that this really SHOULD build, and doesn't. :)
[03:56] <enrico> infinity: easy to fix: where you have shortDescription("foo"), put shortDescription(string("foo"))
[03:56] <joelbryan> Is there an adduser API, or should I use it externally?
[03:57] <infinity> joelbryan: It's a CLI app, that /is/ the API. :)
[04:00] <ploum> Hello
[04:01] <ploum> Can someone reproduce bug #36596 ?
[04:01] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 36596 in pan "system freeze after clicking task manager trash icon" [Critical,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/36596
[04:01] <ploum> Is it a kernel issue ?
[04:02] <ploum> (the reporter told on IRC that his system was completely frozen, cannot even switch to a console)
[04:05] <infinity> Reporting a bug on IRC won't make it get fixed any faster than having it reported in Malone.
[04:05] <infinity> It may, however, annoy perpetually busy people.
[04:05] <Tm_T> yup
[04:07] <infinity> Also, burgerspace is uninstallable.  This is clearly the gravest of grave bugs, and we can't ship like this.l
[04:08] <bddebian> uhm
[04:09] <ogra> infinity, really ? burgerspace ? 
[04:09] <ogra> damned
[04:09] <infinity> Thank god moon-buggy still works, that's all I can say.
[04:09] <ogra> should we form a task force ?
[04:09] <bddebian> hehe
[04:10] <Yagisan> ogra: you'll head the team of course ?
[04:11] <ogra> nah
[04:11] <ogra> that needs more whipping ... i'd opt for JaneW ;)
[04:12] <ogra> its to important to slip through :)
[04:12] <infinity> See, and while people may think you're kidding, I'm going to go fix it.
[04:12] <infinity> A world without burgerspace is a sad place indeed.
[04:12] <ogra> :)
[04:13] <ogra> cant we replace gnome-screensaver with it ?
[04:13] <infinity> DUDE.
[04:13] <infinity> Best.  Idea.  Ever.
[04:13] <joelbryan> what's burgerspace?
[04:13] <joelbryan> seems like I'm living on a sad place. :-(
[04:13] <ogra> or even with moon-buggy, since it seems more stable ;)
[04:13] <infinity> joelbryan: UNIX clone of the old DOS/Atari game BurgerTime.
[04:13] <joelbryan> ah ok
[04:14] <infinity> ogra: Or Jump'n'Bump... Do we ship that?
[04:14] <joelbryan> I love that game
[04:14] <ogra> dunn, but i'd guess so ...
[04:14] <infinity> Oh good, we do.
[04:14] <ogra> even the extra levels :)
[04:15] <infinity> (I don't recommend adding it to edubuntu, it's kinda.. Uhh.. Violent)
[04:15] <infinity> Cute bunnies, sure.  And blood.
[04:15] <infinity> Lots of blood.
[04:15] <ogra> heh
[04:15] <joelbryan> damn, my father just busted out my door with a hammer. it sucks.
[04:15] <ogra> unless the default standard for CD media switched to 800MB, i wont add *anything* to edubuntu :)
[04:16] <_ion> xjump is teh rules. :-)
[04:16] <ogra> .oO(which reminds me ...)
[04:18] <ogra> joelbryan, how did you make him *this* angry ?
[04:18] <joelbryan> ogra: I won't let him in, he told me to find another place to live if I'm not going to follow his rules
[04:18] <ogra> uuh
[04:20] <slomo> infinity: hm, burgerspace is installable here...
[04:20] <infinity> slomo: Not on i386.  Seems to have missed out on the allocator rebuild by accident.
[04:20] <robertj> and does it have appropriate desktop entries ;)
[04:20] <infinity> slomo: Easy enough to rebuild it.
[04:21] <robertj> yeah, I just did an apt-get update & burgerspace now seems happy
[04:21] <slomo> infinity: i'm on x86 :) maybe i still have the old libraries flying around
[04:21] <infinity> slomo: Possibly.  Definitely has crusty deps.
[04:21] <infinity> Depends on libgengameng4c2, should be libgengameng4c2a.
[04:23] <wasabi_> Was anybody working on an arm port? If so, there a repository?
[04:23] <infinity> wasabi_: Not yet, no.
[04:23] <infinity> wasabi_: I may attack arm/mips/m68k next release cycle, if the Powers That Be decide that embedded Ubuntu is a go.
[04:24] <infinity> I have some ColdFire kit sitting on my floor that's begging for some love. :)
[04:24] <wasabi_> Heh. I have a n770. =)
[04:26] <robertj> has moonbuggy always gone from right to left?
[04:26] <mjg59> ogra: They run Linux fine...
[04:26] <tseng> burgertime seems like pac man for people on lsd
[04:26] <ogra> mjg59, but not X
[04:27] <mjg59> Well, no
[04:27] <ogra> mjg59, at least my weird graprics card doesnt
[04:27] <mjg59> But they'd be stupidly slow for a desktop system nowadays anyway
[04:27] <ogra> yep
[04:27] <ogra> and horrible loud as well ...
[04:27] <tseng> ogra: i have an o2
[04:27] <ploum> robertj, yes, as far as I remember
[04:28] <tseng> it does some crazy caching stuff and makes linux blow up
[04:28] <mjg59> tseng: The O2s should be ok in that respect
[04:28] <ploum> wasabi, I have one too. Why ? Is someone discussion the 770 here ???
[04:28] <ogra> still the more beautiful choice
[04:28] <mjg59> It was the 10ks in the Indigo 2s that had that problem
[04:28] <tseng> mjg59: the r10k?
[04:28] <mjg59> Yeah
[04:28] <tseng> hm
[04:30] <desrt> my dvd drive (firewire) does not appear in hal if it's turned on at system startup but powercycling the cd drive gets it to show up (ie: coldplug is broken)
[04:30] <desrt> do i bug pitti benc or keybuk?
[04:31] <ogra> sounds like Keybuk ... but i might be wrong
[04:31] <mjg59> desrt: Does the kernel know about it if it's there on boot?
[04:31] <infinity> desrt: Does it show up at a lower level (ie: in /dev)?
[04:31] <desrt> (it *does* have its modules loaded and device nodes created)
[04:31] <mjg59> Sounds like a hal problem
[04:31] <infinity> desrt: Right, then it's a hal issue.
[04:31] <desrt> and it's in sysfs
[04:31] <zyga_> hey
[04:31] <mjg59> (So pitti)
[04:31] <desrt> awesome
[04:31] <desrt> thx
[04:52] <wasabi_> ploum: I just wish I had a "normal linux distro" on the n770
[04:53] <wasabi_> instead of a normal linux distro which requires pacakges specially set up (/var/lib/install)
[04:53] <wasabi_> and apps to use special gtk classes, etc.
[04:56] <zyga_> wasabi_: what is /var/lib/install on the maemo?
[04:56] <wasabi_> Where .deb's install to.
[04:56] <wasabi_> You can't really install to /
[04:56] <zyga_> hmm
[04:56] <zyga_> hmm
[04:56] <zyga_> b / is RO ?
[04:56] <wasabi_> No.
[04:56] <zyga_> then why?
[04:56] <wasabi_> Because you don't use root to install.
[04:57] <zyga_> !?!
[04:57] <zyga_> what the heck
[04:57] <wasabi_> dpkg runs as a special user named 'install'
[04:57] <wasabi_> I mean, the goal is nice, to prevent users from installing stuff that screws up /
[04:57] <zyga_> suid dpkg?
[04:57] <zyga_> hmm
[04:57] <zyga_> hmmm
[04:57] <zyga_> might be true
[04:57] <wasabi_> But it makes porting a pain in the ass for me.
[04:57] <zyga_> okay but that's ackward
[04:57] <wasabi_> I'd rather just apt-get source some crap and recompile it. ;)
[04:57] <zyga_> does /var/lib/install mimick a normal /
[04:57] <wasabi_> Sorta.
[04:57] <wasabi_> It has no init script infrastructure.
[04:58] <wasabi_> ANything that integrates into the desktop has to do so in special folders.
[04:58] <zyga_> could you do a find / | gzip | mail zyga@suxx.pl  for me?
[04:58] <zyga_> and - home that is
[04:58] <wasabi_> I could mimick one. No  mail. ;)
[04:58] <zyga_> oh
[04:58] <zyga_> there *is* a terminal emulator on the 770, right?
[04:59] <wasabi_> if you install it on your own.
[04:59] <wasabi_> it goes to /var/lib/install. ;)
[04:59] <wasabi_>  / has busy box only 
[04:59] <zyga_> something more sane than xterm?
[04:59] <Robot101> there's an osso-xterm for it
[04:59] <wasabi_> Yeah it's X term with input methods.
[04:59] <koke> JaneW: I've just replied to you
[05:00] <koke> sorry, but I've been in bed with fever all this week
[05:00] <wasabi_> I just have a fairly clear picture how I think the device should be. Plain ol' linux. Custom desktop environment.
[05:00] <wasabi_> Not a lot more.
[05:00] <koke> now checking hundreds of mails :)
[05:06] <wasabi_> I suspect though, I can get Ubuntu (an ARM port) running on it, and configure it up to boot into an X server, and start the maemo interface automatically.
[05:06] <wasabi_> Package those bits up for Ubuntu, etc.
[05:07] <wasabi_> I have a 1GB flash card, so not worried about memory.
[05:07] <zyga_> wasabi_: how large..
[05:07] <zyga_> oh :)
[05:07] <zyga_> I was just wondering
[05:07] <wasabi_> Yeah.
[05:07] <zyga_> I've got a spare arm lying around
[05:07] <zyga_> it lacks network support of any kind though
[05:07] <zyga_> I'd have to setup ppp over serial line to make it online
[05:08] <zyga_> could be a nice reason to try something like that
[05:09] <Hwyvar> can I laugh in here? "I've got a spare arm lying around" :-D
[05:09] <Robot101> Hwyvar: I found that funny too :)
[05:10] <zyga_> hehe
[05:10] <zyga_> right ;] 
[05:11] <Hwyvar> :)
[05:23] <siretart> sladen: thanks for your work on the thinkpad numlock issue
[05:29] <ploum> wasabi, it seems that the next release of their OS will not have this /var/lib issue anymore
[05:29] <ploum> following the speech I saw at FOSDEM
[05:30] <siretart> infinity: re my acx100 card from yesterday. I just upgraded that box to dapper, but wpa still doesn't seem supported. I filed malone bug #36603 for that
[05:30] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 36603 in linux-meta linux-restricted-modules-2.6-686 "[acx100]  doesn't support WPA" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/36603
[05:36] <joelbryan> Is the --gecos option in adduser ubuntu specific?
[05:40] <siretart> joelbryan: isn't it in debian as well?
[05:44] <robertj> where do you report gdebi bugs?
[05:44] <siretart> robertj: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/gdebi/+filebug
[05:44] <robertj> siretart: https://launchpad.net/products/gdebi/+filebug didn't include that information :(
[05:45] <robertj> thanks
[05:45] <siretart> thats another issue then. you're welcome
[05:45] <joelbryan> siretart: oops, silly me, yeah it was debian
[05:50] <robertj> siretart: now bug #36609
[05:50] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 36609 in malone "Page that tells you that you can't file a bug here doesn't tell you where to file it" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/36609
[05:51] <siretart> robertj: thanks :)
[05:55] <robertj> btw, has there been any thought about replacing the message box informing you of new menu entries with a notification bubble from the Applications menu?
[06:26] <Toadstool> sladen: I've got an answer from a lintian dev about the ubuntu adaptation :)
[06:26] <Toadstool> (hi by the way)
[06:31] <sladen> Toadstool: oooh, excellent (and greetings)
[06:31] <sladen> Toadstool: what was the suggestion?
[06:31] <Toadstool> sladen: they may include -D and --debian switches as no-op switches in debian
[06:32] <sladen> Toadstool: did they say anything about the opposite, eg.  --ubuntu or --nmu
[06:33] <Toadstool> nope
[06:33] <sladen> Toadstool: okay, see if you can get it applied then!
[06:34] <Toadstool> sladen: the problem is they're working on lintian 1.23.16 and we only have 1.23.14...
[06:35] <siretart> I think lintian/linda and other package tools are a good candidate for updating. they are well tested, after all
[06:36] <Toadstool> there are huge changelogs for .15 and .16 :)
[06:45] <zyga> is dholbach here on weekends?
[06:54] <sladen> siretart: mmm, ponder.  Toadstool: ideally I'd like it to go into upstream and then backport it.  That means in the future the Ubuntu patch can just be dropped when it is imported again
[07:20] <Chipzz> hrrrm, I know this is a bit off-topic, but how would I run an application in a different language from the command-line?
[07:21] <Chipzz> "LANGUAGE=nl_NL program" doesn't appear to work
[07:21] <sladen> Chipzz: LANG=aa_CC.UTF-8 programname
[07:22] <Chipzz> $ LANG=nl_NL.UTF-8 sudo gnome-software-properties
[07:22] <Chipzz> (gnome-software-properties:25250): Gtk-WARNING **: Locale not supported by C library. Using the fallback 'C' locale.
[07:22] <Chipzz> ?
[07:23] <sladen> Chipzz: do you have the appropriate langpacks installed?
[07:23] <sladen> that too.
[07:24] <Chipzz> hrrrm
[07:24] <Chipzz> sudo dpkg-reconfigure -p low locales
[07:24] <ogra> not in dapper ...
[07:24] <ogra> run locale-gen instead :)
[07:24] <Chipzz> that should give me the debconf front-end in which I can select languages, right?
[07:25] <ogra> afaik not anymore ...
[07:25] <Chipzz> so how DO I get that list?
[07:25] <ogra> it depends on the installed langpacks and calling locale-gen 
[07:25] <ogra> iirc
[07:25] <Chipzz> is /etc/locales.gen deprecated?
[07:26] <ogra> i think so
[07:26] <Chipzz> I only have /etc/locale.gen.dpkg-old ?
[07:26] <Chipzz> hrrrm hrrrm
[07:26] <ogra> ?
[07:27] <Chipzz> ok, so, I don't feel much like installing an entire langpack, and gnome-software-properties has its translations shipped anyway; is there a way to teach ubuntu about that locale without installing the langpack?
[07:30] <Chipzz> nm, will just install the language-pack :P
[07:38] <sladen> Chipzz: I think the locales were moved out of the langpacks and back into locales again
[07:39] <sladen> Chipzz: $ sudo dpkg-reconfigure locales
[07:43] <ogra> sladen, that wont give you a selection ...
[08:00] <Chipzz> sladen: allready installed a languagepack ;)
[08:00] <Chipzz> what I was testing appears to work :)
[09:23] <lifeless> mjg59: around ?
[09:23] <mjg59> lifeless: Hi
[09:24] <lifeless> mjg59: so, evevent or some such was where we got up to 
[09:25] <mjg59> evdev
[09:25] <lifeless> yes
[09:25] <mjg59> Your lshal output claims that hald-addon-keyboard (or whatever) should be running
[09:25] <lifeless> I have that loaded, but not by intention
[09:25] <mjg59> And I can't think of any reason why it wouldn't be
[09:25] <mjg59> So sounds like a hal bug
[09:26] <lifeless> what can I do beyond filing a bug with a synopsis of our talk to help fix this ?
[09:26] <mjg59> Only thing I can think of is killing hal and starting it in verbose mode, then seeing if you can see any indication of why it's not starting it
[09:37] <lifeless> will that wedge anything? If not I'll do it now
[09:37] <mjg59> It'll make anything that's using hal unhappy, but it won't kill the machine
[09:39] <lifeless> how can I tell whats using hal ? if its just nautilus I dont give a f*** so I'll do it
[09:42] <sladen> lifeless: dbus-viewer
[09:47] <lifeless> sladen: ok, nice. now how do I acieve the goal here with that ?
[09:49] <sladen> lifeless: it'll show you what's listening on the bus
[09:49] <lifeless> does it show my hwats interesting in hal ?
[09:50] <lifeless> s/ing/ed/
[09:54] <sladen> lifeless: D-Bus is effectively broadcast based, with filters to narrow down what messages get delivered;  what are you after knowing?
[09:55] <lifeless> sladen: see context above - I've been asked to bounce hal and run it manually. I want to know wheat will fall over and ough
[09:55] <lifeless> s/wheat/what
[09:55] <lifeless> s/ough/cough/
[09:56] <lifeless> s/garbage/sane text/
[09:59] <sladen> $ sudo /etc/init.d/dbus restart
[09:59] <sladen> gnome-power-manager unexpectedly quit
[09:59] <lifeless> I tak ei tdbus depends on hal ?
[10:00] <sladen> ideally they should just wait a moment and try again
[10:02] <lifeless> ok, lets do this thing
[10:02] <lifeless> mjg59: ok, I'm a muppet
[10:02] <lifeless> let me demonstrate
[10:02] <lifeless> robertc@lifelesslap:~/source/baz/bound-test-speed$ ps fux | grep hal
[10:02] <lifeless> robertc   4203  0.0  0.0   2880   796 pts/7    S+   08:02   0:00              |   \_ grep hal
[10:03] <lifeless> robertc@lifelesslap:~/source/baz/bound-test-speed$ ps fx | grep hal
[10:03] <lifeless>  4212 pts/7    S+     0:00              |   \_ grep hal
[10:03] <lifeless> robertc@lifelesslap:~/source/baz/bound-test-speed$ ps fax | grep hal
[10:03] <lifeless>  4124 ?        Ss     0:45 /usr/sbin/hald
[10:03] <lifeless>  4125 ?        S      0:00  \_ hald-runner
[10:03] <lifeless>  4130 ?        S      0:00      \_ /usr/lib/hal/hald-addon-acpi
[10:03] <lifeless>  4136 ?        S      0:01      \_ /usr/lib/hal/hald-addon-keyboard
[10:03] <lifeless>  4219 pts/7    S+     0:00              |   \_ grep hal
[10:03] <lifeless> robertc@lifelesslap:~/source/baz/bound-test-speed$ 
[10:12] <Chipzz> does anyone have mvo's email?
[10:14] <lifeless> mihcael dot voigt @ ubuntu.com I think
[10:14] <lifeless> meh, adjust sanely
[10:14] <lifeless> mjg59: so, having reset the analysis somewhat, what is the analysis now ?
[10:15] <Chipzz> s/mihcael/micheal/ ?
[10:16] <lifeless> yes
[10:17] <Chipzz> http://chipzz.studentenweb.org/um2.patch for anyone who wants to try
[10:17] <Chipzz> sanify gnome-software-properties :)
[10:21] <mwright1night> gnome-vfs2 which nautilus plugs into has a default copy action same as cp -a.  This is counter the conventional Unix security model for fileystems
[10:21] <mwright1night> and basically destroys the ability to share documents amongs workgroups within a work place.
[10:24] <mwright1night> As part of the Shuttleworth polish
[10:24] <mwright1night> can someone fix this stuipd problem with nautils
[10:24] <LaserJock> mwright1night: is there a bug report on Malone?
[10:27] <mwright1night> No
[10:28] <mwright1night> how do you describe chmod g+s in english
[10:29] <neuralis> mwright1night: "turn on the setgid bit"?
[10:29] <Chipzz> mwright1night: I'ld strongly suggest filing a bug upstream
[10:30] <mwright1night> I've been using this in cron to get around it
[10:31] <mwright1night> *       *       *       *       *       find /home/shared \! -group shared -exec chown :shared {} \; -exec chmod u+rw,g+rw {} \;
[10:34] <Chipzz> mwright1night: also: http://mail.gnome.org/archives/gnome-vfs-list/2006-March/msg00042.html
[10:41] <Chipzz> ugh
[10:42] <Chipzz> neither michael.voigt@ubuntu.com nor micheal.voigt@ubuntu.com exist?
[10:42] <tseng> my guesses would've been michael.voight@canonical.com or mvo@ubuntu.com
[10:43] <tseng> but look for his post on the mailing list.
[10:43] <Chipzz> michael.vogt@ubuntu.com apparently :P
[10:43] <Chipzz> without the i :P
[10:43] <tseng> oh, that helps
[11:29] <mwright1night> The other bad problem is , Firefox does not use LC_PAPER and there is no way to set A4 as your paper time
[11:29] <mwright1night> type i.. it alwasy reverts back -- pain in the arse
[11:43] <yves> hi
[11:44] <nictuku> I've sent a patch to a bug, now what? wait until a ubuntu staff member process it?
[11:45] <LaserJock> ubuntu staff member?
[11:47] <nictuku> we'll someone who maintain main packages
[11:47] <nictuku> well*
[11:48] <LaserJock> oh, it's a main package
[11:48] <nictuku> forgot to mention that, sorry
[11:49] <nictuku> bug is #26601
[11:49] <nictuku> Ubugtu, bug #26601
[11:49] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 26601 in bittornado bittornado-gui "btdownloadgui crashes on startup" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/26601
[11:50] <nictuku> i've confirmed the issue reported, then sent a trivial patch
[11:55] <LaserJock> nictuku: I'd assume somebody would pick it up.