/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2006/04/01/#ubuntu-devel.txt

mjg59It always takes up more time than simply flagging a bug as a duplicate12:02
mjg59But it's also better to check whether a bug has already been filed12:02
KaiLif those checks wouldn't fail that often, even if a bug exists..12:03
KaiL...and it doesn't help that much to loose time for meta discussions, if there are more usefull things to do12:04
KaiLrobertj, maybe the unregioned drive is something dell-specific, as they sell identical systems in 2 regions?12:05
robertjrobertj: I doubt it, I'm pretty sure that is pretty common12:06
mjg59It's not Dell-specific12:06
KaiLhmm - so why I never saw that problem here?12:06
robertjKaiL: people use setregion, recycle older drives, etc?12:07
mjg59KaiL: That's not a question we can answer, and it's off-topic12:07
robertjmjg59: should gstreamer be responsible for that?12:07
mjg59robertj: Setting region? A good question.12:07
mjg59One that I'm going to defer for now :)12:07
KaiLthe problem to ask to set a region is, that you can only change is several times12:07
robertjKaiL: I've thought about that, and my thinkingis that any user should be allowed to change the region to match the dvd in the drive, but only an administrator should be able to use the last change12:08
robertjit's feels dirty but I think the pragmatic benefit outways the dirty feeling I have a night12:09
KaiLI'd like to allow only administrators at all to change that setting - and with a VERY big warning12:10
bmontywhat package is the setregion command in? (apt-cache search isn't giving me anything)12:10
KaiLimho this warning should be bigger than every normal warning, as it's an option, which can trash hardware, even better than every beta-driver can12:11
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robertjon a positive note the gstreamer error message is generally less sucky12:21
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mxpxpod_ion: ping12:35
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Drac[Server] Shutting down temporarily to change surge protectors.12:53
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infinityneuralis: Pong.02:16
mxpxpodogra: ping02:16
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desrthow far from the next flight/prerelease?02:42
Burgundaviadesrt: Wednesday I believe02:42
infinity... ish.02:43
infinityThese things are rarely precise.02:43
infinityBut given that the world is currenly installable and (mostly) buildable, assuming any of it works, this is a good time.02:44
desrthmm02:44
desrti just got a new harddrive02:44
desrtso i think i'm going to install onto it using RAID1 with only 1 drive02:45
desrtcopy my stuff over then add the other drive to the array02:45
=== desrt is gonna try something gutsy -- boot from external USB CD drive but get the installer to detect the external firewire CD drive by unplugging the USB one just after the kernel starts booting
=== desrt wonders what kind of boot-time speedup he'll see from having 2 drives instead of 1
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joelbryananyone knows what values for /apps/nautilus/icon_view/default_zoom_level, standard is 100%, large is 150%, larger is 200%, same for small, smaller. I don't know that values for 400% and 25%. does anyone knows it?03:07
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neuralisinfinity: have a minute now to talk about advocacy?03:13
infinityneuralis: I'm taking a sick day (and heading back to bed in a moment to do so), could we catch up on this a bit later?03:15
neuralisinfinity: unfortunately, i need to send in the final version of the chapter before tomorrow. but no worries, what's there already will do fine. take care of yourself and get better.03:16
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desrtawesome.  it worked.03:39
desrtthe installer just grabbed my firewire drive as if it was meant to be03:39
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desrtinteresting factoid about the installer:04:19
desrtit makes no attempt to prevent you from installing a brick04:19
desrtie: doesn't do any checks to make sure /boot lives outside of RAID04:19
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desrtok.  actually, it just fails to properlty determine the device number04:27
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desrtguys... flight5 is fast...04:33
desrti thought it was just all the gnome, etc improvements made... but doing a fresh install of the OS (box was upgraded from warty before) really speeds stuff up a lot04:33
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_ionMorning.05:07
Burgundavia_ion: mxpxpod was looking for you05:17
_ionYep, i noticed. He didn't tell why, though. :-)05:18
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fabbionemorning06:25
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jsgotangcohi ogra 07:57
G0SUBjsgotangco07:58
fabbioneogra: i have been confirmed that the flickering issue is due to the apps. DRI and driver in X are fine. fix it. kthxbye07:58
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pittiGood morning08:08
Burgundaviapitti: morning08:09
Burgundaviapitti: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/xdg/2006-March/007904.html08:10
fabbionehey pitti08:11
pittihi fabbione 08:11
Burgundaviapitti: and http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.autopackage.devel/467108:11
pittiBurgundavia: hm, sounds like a bad hack - they should require .desktop to be executable in the first place08:12
pittiBurgundavia: thanks for the links!08:12
Burgundaviapitti: indeed, but the second is even worse08:12
Burgundaviapitti: I should note that the autopackage devs are NOT planning to use this gross hack08:13
Burgundaviaand see it rightly as a security hole08:13
pitti*gulp*08:14
Burgundaviapitti_laptop: did I ruin your breakfast?08:21
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pitti_laptopBurgundavia: oh, not really, we discussed the .desktop issue a long time ago :)08:25
pitti_laptopBurgundavia: the hack doesn't really change much anyway08:25
pitti_laptopBurgundavia: there's not a big difference between running arbitrary commands (including sh -c) with a .desktop, or *being* a shell file08:25
pitti_laptop(AFAICS)08:25
pitti_laptopor is it?08:25
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dholbachgood morning09:01
simiradholbach: It's morning, anyway09:02
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dholbachsimira: is it so bad?09:03
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dholbachhey mdke_ :)09:04
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mdke_hi, thanks for doing all those docs uploads09:05
dholbachnot to worry :-)09:05
simiradholbach: I don't know yet, I'm not awake09:07
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dholbachsimira: we're all getting there ;)09:08
Pygimornin' people09:09
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highvoltagemornin'09:10
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pittihi JaneW 09:16
JaneWhi pitti09:16
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hendrywhat is the best avenue of moaning about malone?11:05
hendryfiling a bug?11:05
Mithrandiryes, or mailing launchpad-users if it's something where you need to discuss and work out a solution11:06
hendrylaunchpad-users11:07
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Simirahendry: try #launchpad11:08
Mithrandirhendry: being hopping mad won't help.  Calm down.11:08
Burgundaviahendry: patience is key to dealing with LP11:10
hendryon irc no one can hear you scream11:10
hendry;)11:10
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pitticarlos: hi! does rosetta spit out a list of packages with missing POT files?11:24
pitticarlos: I can still use my own import script to get that, but in the future rosetta should tell us anyway11:25
carlospitti: no, but I can create a page with that information11:25
pitticarlos: it should list all import errors, like 'no pot file', or 'pot file, but no domains', or '2 .mo file domains, but 3 pot files', or so11:26
carlospitti: could you file a bug about it, please?11:26
pitticarlos: sure11:26
carlospitti: well, atm I'm not using the .mo files at all11:27
carloswe are not importing any .pot file automatically until it's reviewed manually once11:27
carlosto prevent the mess we have with hoary and breezy11:28
dholbachKamion, Kinnison: did you have any plans to get some cherrypicked fixes of the new gparted releases (0.2.2 now) into gparted?11:29
Kamiondholbach: if Kinnison or you can do it without breaking the gparted installer functionality you have now, be my guest11:30
KamionI don't have time myself11:30
pitticarlos: bug 36825 11:30
UbugtuMalone bug 36825 in rosetta "please generate an import error page" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/3682511:30
pitticarlos: hm, that sounds like a lot of work to me11:31
StevenKKamion: Do I have any hope of getting Linda 0.3.20 into Dapper?11:31
carlospitti: it's11:31
dholbachKamion: yeah, that's what I thought... if we can't have 0.2.2 we should at least have the important stuff backported11:31
pitticarlos: I get very good results by looking at the mo files, and I only need to manually fix ~20 packages11:31
carlospitti: only KDE and OO.org remains to get all .pot imported11:31
KamionStevenK: what does it change?11:31
carlospitti: we only need to do it once11:31
pitticarlos: btw, fixed blender is test-building here ATM11:31
Kamiondholbach: if possible, I'd rather go straight to 0.2.2 than backport11:31
carlospitti: cool, thanks11:31
Kamionjust because of the complexity11:31
pitticarlos: and you can detect layout changes?11:31
StevenKKamion: Um, the changelog is large. It fixes a few things sladen did an upload for.11:32
pitticarlos: what broke for you if you apply some heuristics to automatically process the 95% of the packages that usually make no problem?11:32
carlospitti: also, this manual review prevents us to import gtk+ and glib+ as much times as buildtrees it has or as much times as it changes the version....11:32
carlospitti: no, we don't detect layout changes (yet)11:33
tepsipakkiKamion: is the install-cd bootable on a mactel yet?11:33
KamionStevenK: remember that we're in feature freeze. If it's bug fixes only, then sure; otherwise we'd have to talk.11:33
pitticarlos: I use an 'override database' for these cases (one of the 20ish packages that require manual treatment)11:33
Kamiontepsipakki: no11:33
tepsipakkiduh11:33
tepsipakkiok11:33
StevenKKamion: Most, if not all of the changes close a Debian bug or two.11:33
carlospitti: override database for layout changes?11:33
pitticarlos: hm, then this seems to be prone to break even harder than with heuristics... package layout changes from time to time11:33
KamionStevenK: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources has the process for requesting freeze exceptions11:33
carlospitti: prone to break?, if it's on hte same path is imported automatically11:34
pitticarlos: e. g. I say in domain-overrides/gtk+2.0:11:34
carlosif it's not... we need to review it manually...11:34
pittigtk20-properties build-tree/gtk+-*-shared/po-properties/11:34
pitticarlos: ah, ok11:34
carlosthat's not prone to break ;-)11:34
pitticarlos: i. e. my db assigns translation domains to a specific subdirectory of the build tree11:34
carlospitti: oh, I see, that's something I was planning to do too11:34
StevenKKamion: Thanks, I'll do that.11:34
carlospitti: what happens with multiple .pot files on the same directory?11:35
carlospitti: like iso-codes package11:35
pitticarlos: the import process will complain for me and refuse; this requires an override for me11:35
sladenKamion: I think the only issue with linda out the box is that it tries to run NMU checks on Ubuntu which don't make sense;  and the locales issue has been worked around for the moment, although there was a better patch that I've asked somebody to take straight to upstream11:35
carlospitti: it's more or less the same we do then ;-)11:35
pitticarlos: right now I ignore iso-codes, and it's the only package with multiple pot files in one dir11:35
tepsipakkikamion: how about netboot, there should probably be a elilo.efi to be loaded on pxeboot or something?11:35
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carlospitti: glibc has also multiple .pot files in one dir11:36
carlospitti: one of them is useless11:36
pitticarlos: well, I don't need to tweak/review the vast majority of our packages11:36
carlosheader.pot11:36
pitticarlos: my glibc override: libc build-tree/glibc-*/po11:36
Kamiontepsipakki: I have no clue about how netboot would work and not much interest in looking at it before CDs11:36
pitticarlos: i. e. easy to fix for me11:36
tepsipakkiKamion: ok, no problem11:37
Kamiontepsipakki: you can fish elilo.efi out of the elilo package and try it out yourself if you like11:37
tepsipakkiyes, I will ;)11:37
carlospitti: you have much more flexivility11:37
carlos;-)11:37
pitticarlos: I'm just mentioning that because it seems to me that manually reviewing 3000 packages is a horribly boring and unnecessary work...11:38
carlospitti: do we have 3000 packages with translations in main?11:38
pittioh, true11:39
pittiso, s/3000/300/ :)11:39
carlospitti: :-P11:39
carlospitti: we already did most of them11:39
carlosthe most complicates one are the KDE ones11:39
pitticarlos: (just wait for dapper+5, when we will have 3000 :-P)11:39
carlospitti: well, In the mean time, I guess I would have improvements to our system... :-)11:40
pitticarlos: hm, I actually find them pretty easy to import, beacause kde-i18n is very regular11:40
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carlospitti: but the .pot files are in other package11:40
pitticarlos: but I guess it hurts you that the translations and sources are apart?11:40
pittiright11:40
carlospitti: the idea is to reuse the .mo information again, but not the way we were using it before11:41
carlosto prevent the problems we had11:41
pitticarlos: well, and the always beloved special special cases, like k3b :)11:41
carlosthat's why I didn't ask you to remove them from the tarballs11:41
carlospitti: what's wrong with it?11:42
pittioh, I need the .mo files, too, and they don't hurt11:42
pitticarlos: it has its own i18n package...11:42
carlosinteresting...11:42
pitti            elif url.find('k3b-i18n') >= 0:11:43
pitti                if not extract_k3bi18n_translation_tarball(tar, contentdir):11:43
pitticarlos: this leads to ugly special cases like this11:43
pittiwith hardcoded source package names...11:43
carlospitti: I cannot do those things with Rosetta11:43
pitticarlos: I guess so :)11:43
=== fabbione really really needs some help to triage X bugs
Kamioncarlos: do you know why the exported .po files from the Rosetta import of debian-installer miss out all the "#. Description" lines?11:48
Kamionit creates a huge amount of diff noise11:48
Kamioncarlos: I'm also still seeing some very dubious non-fuzzy translations11:49
carlosKamion: it sounds like a bug, we should not remove comments11:49
KamionI *think* it may be removing the last line of each set of comments; but I'm not sure11:50
michal`hey, i've compilled vanilla kernel from kernel.org using configuration that _works_ here on this machine in every other distro. but when have started it on ubuntu, all i'm getting whe executing any binary is "invalid argument". what are you patching your libc/whatever with to make ABI incompatibile and how can i resolve it ?11:50
jdubmjg59: ping11:50
mjg59jdub: Hi11:51
jdubmjg59: seen the xserver-xorg-dev vs. xserver-xgl .m4 conflict?11:51
mjg59Nope11:51
mjg59Easy enough to fix, though11:51
carlosKamion: I will look into it today11:52
jdubi think it was xserver-xorg.m411:52
fabbionehmmm11:53
fabbionejdub: what kind of conflict do you get?11:53
jdubfabbione: file conflict on (from memory) xserver-xorg.m411:53
fabbionejdub: Contents-i386.gz didn't show any conflict when i did look for xserver-xorg.m411:54
Kamioncarlos: thanks; I didn't know whether you'd purged the known-broken translations yet11:54
carlosKamion: not yet, sorry11:54
Kamion-rw-rw-r--   1 lp_publish lp_publish 9912759 Jan 19 23:14 Contents-i386.gz11:54
carlosstill looking into the database11:54
Kamionfabbione: ^--11:54
Kamioncarlos: ah, ok11:54
fabbione OH CRAP11:54
Kamioniz elmo thing11:54
fabbione!#*?!*%11:54
Kamion(afaik)11:55
pitticarlos: fixed blender uploaded11:55
carlospitti: cool, thanks11:55
fabbioneKamion: before soyuz it was an issue with apt-ftparchive not issuing a lock while running.. i wonder what's the problem now11:56
fabbionethere is an RT request for it opened since UBZ11:56
Kamionprobably just hasn't been done yet, dunno11:56
KamionI think at this point a soyuz bug would be more helpful than an RT request11:56
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seb128infinity: around?11:57
Kamionit can't reasonably be categorised as a sysadmin action any more11:57
fabbioneKinnison: do you know who is resposable for that part of the code?11:57
fabbioneKamion: whatever.. it was in elmo's court because he did ask me to open an RT :)11:57
Kamionwhich probably made sense for katie, but not any longer11:58
Kinnisonfabbione: Contents files haven't been generated in quite a while11:58
fabbioneKinnison: yes that was obvious :)11:58
Kinnisonfabbione: I.E. not attempted rather than non-functional11:58
dokodid anybody try to run the live cd from the weekend?11:58
fabbioneKinnison: who should be kindly larted to get that done now?11:58
Kamionthe current Contents files were just rsynced over from katie, AFAIK11:58
Kamiondoko: yeah, can't mount root filesystem; Mithrandir will be looking into it in a bit, although if you want to beat him to it I wouldn't object :)11:59
StevenKContents files are still useful. I find the lack of them for Dapper at little strange at times.11:59
Kinnisonfabbione: I imagine elmo needs to work out a reliable way to convert the apt.conf which soyuz produces into something which can generate Contents files out-of-band and then copy them in11:59
=== StevenK is wondering where mpt is hiding himself.
Kinnisonfabbione: If it's assigned to me then I'll get to it when I have time, which is currently looking like post-dapper12:00
StevenKI'd like to work on the about-ubuntu spec, but I'd like to see the code that has been written so I don't duplicate work.12:00
fabbioneKinnison: ok thanks.12:00
dokoKamion: have to decide about lunch now or later ;) ...12:01
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KamionKinnison: since there are some things in the distro which rely on Contents files, I think we'll need to find some way to get it done before dapper12:01
KinnisonKamion: right12:02
=== Kinnison has his unread bugmail down to 105 now
Kinnisonif someone files a bug and assigns it to me, I'll see what I can work out12:02
Kinnisonthe bug should be filed against launchpad-publisher12:02
KamionI'll file it12:02
ografabbione, thanks ... i'm still wondering why it only happens for ati12:02
fabbioneogra: no idea.. but benh said so.. and he is the ati driver maintainer :)12:03
fabbioneogra: he did a bunch of tests before confirming so12:03
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KamionKinnison: bug 36830, thanks12:06
UbugtuMalone bug 36830 in launchpad-publisher "need Contents files to be generated" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/3683012:06
ografabbione, ok, thanks a lot ..12:07
KinnisonKamion: added to my bugmail-notes12:08
Kinnisona mere 90 lines of notes and 104 unread bugmails left to go12:08
Kinnisonthat'll teach me to actually use my weekend for resting / personal stuff12:09
dokomvo: font ping12:09
mvodoko: hello12:09
dokohi12:09
dokothe tty-dejavu developers now identified their problem: the arabic glyphs added in 2.4. they apparently use something which the new pango doesn't support (BASE tables). the recommendation of the pango devels was to split out the arabic fonts into a separate one12:11
dokos/tty/ttf/12:11
Mithrandirdoko: the live cd is broken due to udev not plugging cd rom drives in the boot.12:12
mvodoko: ok12:12
dokoMithrandir: ahh, ok, will try the next build12:12
dokomvo: is gentium an alternative?12:13
mvodoko: I don't think they cover arabic glyphs 12:13
dokomvo: well, dejavu won't as well ...12:14
dokoI do not want to ship a custom release, the devels talk about splitting the glyphs in a separate font with the 2.5 release12:15
mvodoko: do we have a bugnumber for this? I'm not sure that I'm familiar with the background of the problem12:15
dokomvo: one of the ttf-dejavu bugs12:16
=== mvo fires up malone
dokomvo: or look at the ML (the "excessive kerning" thread), http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum=dejavu-fonts12:17
=== Chipzz pokes mvo :P
jdubi really dislike waiting for the gnome-screensaver dialogue to appear12:25
ograjdub, patches accepted ;)12:25
jdubhaha12:25
=== jdub submits patch for the seed file.
ograheh12:26
jdub;-)12:26
mjg59Kinnison: ? The bug is that g-p-m claims the machine is still in the wrong power state if it's changed during suspend. I don't see how that can possibly be an acpi-support bug12:26
Kinnisonmjg59: good point12:27
Kinnisonmjg59: sorry12:28
mjg59Kinnison: No problem12:28
jdubthunderbird language files are now depends of language-support12:28
mjg59I was just confused by the "You say this is an acpi-support problem" :)12:28
jdubhrm, guess we don't have a supersmart way of solving it otherwise atm12:28
Kinnisonmjg59: mostly I was trying to palm off bugs from my list :-)12:29
mjg59Kinnison: I think counting on me to fix anything between now and dapper is not a great plan12:29
mjg59I have little enough time that I'm likely to limit myself to anything that I find interesting12:30
Kinnisonmjg59: paul seemed to be doing acpi-support stuff too12:31
Kinnisonmjg59: but noted12:31
mjg59Kinnison: Yeah12:31
pitticarlos: I just uncovered a problem in my import scripts that might hit you, too12:43
carlospitti: let's see12:43
pitticarlos: how do you get the version of a tarball's package?12:44
carlospitti: soyuz does it for me12:44
pitticarlos:  we recently stopped including the epoch in the tarball name12:44
pitticarlos: thus, gthumb 2.7.5 < 3:2.7.212:44
carlospitti: so I don't get the version anymore from the tarball name12:44
pitticarlos: ok, so epochs are correctly handled for you?12:44
carlosyes, as I get directly a reference to the package in our database12:45
carlosthus, I don't need to parse anything12:45
carlosalso I don't need to do the old upload check 12:46
carlosas soyuz will not accept old uploads12:46
pittiinfinity: hm, so translations.txt has no epoch in Version:12:46
pitticarlos: right12:46
pittiinfinity: that was the bug we recently talked about, right?12:46
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janimopitti, hi12:47
pittihi janimo 12:47
pittigot my mail?12:47
janimopitti, yes12:47
janimoall xfce packages use intltool-update ow their own12:47
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janimoand have .pot files checked in svn12:48
janimothey just do not make it into the dist tarball12:48
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janimocould we use those if they included them?12:48
pittijanimo: weeell, it would be suboptimal12:49
janimothe cdbs solution is good anyway12:49
pittijanimo: because that wouldn't catch strings you add/change for Debian/Ubuntu12:49
janimopitti, ok so in case we modified strings we need to call intltool anyway12:49
pittijanimo: yep12:49
janimoI'll look at xfce cdbs class then12:50
janimopitti, thanks will let you know how it goes12:50
pittithanks12:51
=== ogra yays at bug 36743
UbugtuMalone bug 36743 in xscreensaver "glsnake contains non G-rated material" [Unknown,Unknown]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/3674312:52
janimopitti, seeing that not only gnome/xfce packages need the POT /.desktop treatment would it not make sense to make an independent cdbs rule for it which gnome.mk would include?12:57
janimothis way it could be used by misc cdbs using packages12:57
pittijanimo: of course12:57
dokoseb128, dholbach, mov: Looking at #31596, I cannot understand why gpdf get's the correct output while evince does not.12:57
pittijanimo: having a language-packs.mk which is included by gnome.mk and xfce.mk would work for me12:57
janimopitti, ok I'll make that then12:58
pittijanimo: right now, including gnome.mk in xfce.mk would be equivalent, though12:58
pittibut having a proper langpacks.mk is cleaner12:58
seb128doko: gpdf and evince have nothing to do one with the other12:58
Treenaks(other than that they both read PDFs)12:59
seb128doko: gpdf has a partial xpdf old code where evince uses poppler and fontconfig12:59
dokoseb128: maybe, but why is the very same font gives different results?01:00
seb128because the rendering stuff are totally different code01:01
seb128maybe gpdf doesn't pick the same font01:02
seb128or it doesn't do an AA on it, or ..01:02
mroth /AWAY LKSJDLKFJSDLK01:03
TheMusodholbach: Thanks for getting that patch into gnopernicus.01:04
dokoseb128: gpdf picks the same font, if you look at the trace01:05
dholbachTheMuso: anytime :)01:05
dholbachTheMuso: thanks for working on it01:05
TheMusoNp.01:06
infinitypitti: Yes, I could fix translations.txt, but you told me not to prioritise it, since the Right Way should be working soon. :)01:13
pittiinfinity: yep, I'm currently adding a workaround to my scripts01:14
pittiso don't bother about fixing it01:14
infinitypitti: Are you sure?  If you're still using those exported tarballs, fixing translations.txt is only a few sbuild tweaks away.01:16
infinityseb128: So, what are you doing about nautilus and its newfound love for universe build-deps?01:16
seb128infinity: what Build-Deps is that?01:16
pittiinfinity: if it's easy, I could make my scripts more robust, but it's not necessary if it creates real work for you01:16
infinityseb128: beagle-dev01:17
infinitypitti: Well, since I'm still in the middle of a sick day, anything is "real work", but in reality, it's very little work at all (two lines of perl, build a package, install it on the buildds...)01:18
seb128infinity: it has been accepted for promotion by pitti so we do promote it :p01:18
infinityseb128: Except that it brings in half the world (which hasn't had a promotion exception yet), so it may not happen immediately. :001:19
Kamionseb128: pitti only approved beagle, not its dependencies. so no, we don't01:19
pittiDependencies: Depends are in main with the exception of gtk-sharp2 (already approved and should be re-seeded shortly), and gmime2.1.01:20
pitti^ from the beagle report01:20
pittihmm01:20
Kamionevolution-sharp, galago-sharp01:20
infinityIn fact, pretty much everything with "sharp" in the source name. :)01:21
Kamionhence gtk-sharp (which we *de*moted recently) and libgalago01:21
Kamiongiven it wants to promote something we explicitly got rid of recently, I'm reluctant01:21
slomoKamion: gtk-sharp wants to get into main again? what pulls it in? and for galago-sharp, tseng wanted to drop that build-depend afaik01:21
Kamionslomo: galago-sharp, http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/anastacia.txt01:22
slomoKamion: ok, i'll drop galago-sharp from the b-d then... but evolution-sharp is something we want imho... i'll write a main inclusion report later for it01:25
infinitySurely, galago-sharp should be rebuilt with gtk-sharp2, so gtk-sharp can be completely removed.01:25
slomoinfinity: yes, that too ;)01:25
ografabbione, has the new ati driver a compiled in tv test screen ? 01:25
ograhttps://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-users/2006-March/071487.html01:25
ograi've heard that more often over the weekend here 01:26
Treenakscool :)01:26
infinityogra: The latest upload is meant to fix that, I believe.01:26
ograyes, as long as it doesnt prevent GDM from starting ;)01:26
TreenaksMy mac mini had those distortions01:26
ograinfinity, ah, cool 01:26
Treenaksno TV test screen01:26
fabbioneogra: no01:27
fabbioneogra: and the bug has been fixed with this morning upload.01:27
ograyup, got that01:28
RiddellMithrandir: can you tell me if I'm doing something daft.  I removed all the language packs from the kubuntu live seed for powerpc but it still has them installed on today's CD01:28
ograRiddell, did you upload -meta ?01:29
ograyou need the update in the -live package ;)01:29
carlospitti: the blender's .pot file is broken01:29
carlospitti: it lacks a .po header01:30
infinityRiddell: ogra is right... The livefs build scripts use the metapackages, not the seeds (intentionally, since this is one of the few ways the metapackages every get tested)01:30
pitticarlos: oops, right01:30
carlospitti: I can fix it manually to get the initial upload done, but you should fix it on the package...01:30
pitticarlos: yes, I'll do that ASAP01:30
carlospitti: thank you01:31
infinityRiddell: Also, as "the guy who's been updating libapt-front", do you want to look at updating/fixing debtags, so it can actually build with the libapt-front version we're shipping? :)01:31
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Riddellogra: ah hah01:31
Riddellinfinity: ok, will do01:32
carlospitti: also.. the script that they use to generate the .pot file is not generating the right output... it's not a syntax error, but the references to the file where the string came should not be noted as that kind of comments but as #: ones...01:32
slomoKamion: evolution-sharp was approved already some time ago... https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionReportEvolutionSharp01:32
ograRiddell, happened to me several times already :)01:32
carlospitti: but don't worry, it's not something you should fix01:32
slomoKamion: and the next beagle upload has no libgalago-cil build-depends anymore ;)01:32
fabbioneRiddell: hey.. did you get my /msg a couple of days ago?01:35
Kamionslomo: oh, interesting, we must have demoted it again at some point01:36
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slomoKamion: probably short before breezy release... many mono packages were demoted there as they were not really ready for main back then01:37
KamionI've chucked it back into main01:37
Riddellfabbione: about taglib?  I've not had any other similar reports01:38
Riddellfabbione: I wonder if it's a powerpc issue01:38
fabbioneRiddell: yes that one..01:38
fabbioneRiddell: no idea01:38
fabbionei don't use amarok at all01:38
Riddellfabbione: a backtrace would be useful01:38
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fabbioneRiddell: you can ask him directly. he hangs here on freenode when he is connected..01:40
Riddellfabbione: ok01:40
fabbioneRiddell: i would rather avoid to start being a 3rd person in the middle, when there is no need :)01:40
fabbionehe is .au TZ01:40
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seb128re (I was away for lunch)01:43
seb128Kamion: has gtk-sharp beeing demoted for a reason, or just because there was no real point to have it to main since nothing uses it?01:43
tsengseb128: 'dropped because nothing uses it and upstream doesnt love it anymore'01:44
seb128tseng: upstream has stop wrapping gtk sharp? Or it has been renamed?01:44
ajmitchand we don't love it either01:44
seb128hum01:44
tsengseb128: we have gtk-sharp2 which wrapps 2.8 api01:45
tsengseb128: and is supported01:45
ajmitchseb128: gtk-sharp 2.x is a different package01:45
tsenggtk-sharp is very old01:45
seb128I'm a stuff# newby bug seems that's what beagle asks for?01:45
seb128<Kamion> seb128: pitti only approved beagle, not its dependencies. so no, we don't01:45
tsengnot since a long time01:45
seb128<Kamion> evolution-sharp, galago-sharp01:45
seb128<Kamion> hence gtk-sharp (which we *de*moted recently) and libgalago01:45
tsenggalago is my mistake01:45
tsengits leaving b-d01:46
seb128that's it which triggers gtk-sharp so?01:46
tsengit doesnt seem to here01:46
seb128hum, maybe we are speaking of gtk-sharp2 binary package01:46
RiddellKamion: could you promote language-selector-qt to main?  part of language-selector and all deps should be in main01:47
seb128it's universe atm01:47
slomoseb128, tseng: galago-sharp build-depends on libgtk-cil01:47
slomobut i disabled that now... should be on changes really soon01:47
tsengoh, thats why i didnt see it01:47
slomoother than that the libgalago-cil b-d on beagle is gone now too01:47
fabbioneslomo: we found a couple of mono runtime error on sparc.. fixes will be on the way within a couple of days, but it is quite stable on recent cpu's01:48
Kamionseb128: libgtk2.0-cil is what actually contains the bindings01:48
fabbioneslomo: it shows only on relatively old machines because we are hitting some asm thingy that's not available everywhere01:48
pitticarlos: http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/tmp/blender.pot <- is that better?01:48
KamionRiddell: have you seeded it?01:48
RiddellKamion: about 2 minutes ago yes01:49
KamionRiddell: ok, promoted01:49
Riddellthanks01:49
carlospitti: yeah, that's perfect. If you can, add a new line to the end of the header. but that's not an issue for Rosetta01:49
slomofabbione: when this are the only bugs on sparc currently i don't see why we should worry much :) other ports seem to have bigger problems, like the ppc smp problem...01:50
carlospitti: thank you01:50
pitticarlos: no problem, I'll add a line01:50
fabbioneslomo: well.. it needs love :)01:50
slomofabbione: is the linux/sparc support already in the 1.1.13 branch or only in trunk btw?01:53
fabbioneslomo: i dunno.. i can ask but not before tomorrow morning01:53
slomofabbione: ok... we'll see when 1.1.13.5 is released :)01:54
tsengmono runs on sparc/linux again?01:56
tsengnews to me.01:56
infinityAs of this morning.01:56
fabbionetseng: yes it does..01:56
infinityIt's in the archive, built, and tested.01:56
tsengthats pretty cool, does that have the jit?01:56
tsengi guess it must.01:56
fabbioneyes01:56
=== tseng hugs fabbione
fabbionetseng: it still needs love.. it seems to do some random segfaults on my IIi CPU01:57
fabbionebut it works fine on IIIi and Niagara T101:57
infinityHug DaveM.  He's the man who's decided that porting mono to sparc and other such things are more important than, say, his girlfriend. :)01:57
pitticarlos: fixed blender uploaded01:58
fabbioneinfinity: yeah.. except i gave him the hint to do it :P01:58
infinityfabbione: You're going to be responsible for their breakup.01:58
fabbioneinfinity: i know :)01:58
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carlospitti: cool, thanks02:01
TheMusodholbach: ping02:01
dholbachTheMuso: pong02:03
TheMusoLooks like that patch doesn't get included in the package. I am having a look now.02:04
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Google_Firefoxinstruction Google Adsense-->  http://planet.nana.co.il/hartk2003/en.htm                 Download Firefox -->  http://planet.nana.co.il/hartk2003/Firefox.htm02:04
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dholbachTheMuso: arg yes...02:06
dholbachTheMuso: fixing02:07
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kart_hi all02:07
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kart_I want to play with Ubuntu Live CD Installer, where can I found sources of it?02:08
Kamionapt-get source espresso02:08
slomohm, is there an easy way to get reverse build-depends?02:11
siretartslomo: I use grep-dctrl on the Sources.gz for that02:12
tepsipakkihow come firefox seemingly hangs when I change the theme from Clearlooks to the new Human.. it doesn't really hang, after a while it has eaten a lot of memory and is again usable02:12
slomosiretart: yes but that's not easy, you have to get the Sources.gz before... i wonder why apt-cache has nothing for it02:13
Kamionyou've probably already got the Sources in /var/lib/apt/lists02:13
siretartslomo: I don't know another reliable way for that02:14
janimopitti, is the generated POT file supposed to be in usr/share/locales in the .deb?02:15
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Luresince Keybuk is not around, anybody else that can explain what is going on with n-m/wpasupplicant?02:37
Lureit looks like wpasupplicant is waiting to be promoted to main or something?02:37
Lurewe would like to prepare knetworkmanager for inclusion, but pbuilder need -dev packages in offical repo first02:38
siretartLure: I'm waiting for an upload from him as well: http://lists.alioth.debian.org/pipermail/pkg-wpa-devel/2006-March/000050.html02:38
siretartargl02:38
siretarts/upload/answer/02:38
siretartthe current package of wpasupplicant build depends on qt4, which isn't in main. I fixed that in our svn branch, but I wait for his answer before uploading02:39
LureI though this is only wpagui, which was separate package in our source, wasn't it?02:41
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KamionLure: it's not a separate package in dapper02:45
Kamionwell, it's a separate *binary* package02:45
Kamionbut that doesn't matter; the problem is that the source package build-depends on qt4, not that the binary package depends on qt402:45
LureKamion: true, this does not change the fact :-(02:45
Kamionit'll be resolved soon, don't worry about it02:46
Lureany way around (beside droping wpagui completely)?02:46
Kamionno02:46
=== siretart has a fix prepared
siretartbut I'm only waiting for Keybuk to answer my mail02:46
Luresiretart: ok, afair, keybuk is out for most (all?) of this week02:47
siretartor someone to tell me that I should upload my fixed package. I'm not too happy about his last upload..02:47
siretartLure: oh, this would change things. does anybody knows for sure?02:47
siretarts/knows/know/, even02:47
Luresiretart: I think he was pressured by time and want to get in before he leave...02:47
KamionKeybuk is on holiday from today to Wednesday02:48
siretartI see. this would explain some things..02:48
LureI can check irc logs, but he said it for sure (on dev meeting or in this channel)02:48
LureKamion: taht was it...02:48
Kamionsiretart: I think you should just go ahead, if it's an improved evolution of the code he was using02:48
siretartKamion: he uploaded a quite work in progress state from our experimental branch, it was not ready for release and had some bad issues02:49
Kamionand if it preserves the general approach of any changes he made02:49
siretartok, I'll upload then02:49
slomoKamion: we have a package that we want to update to a new upstream version in universe. but it needs a NEW package from debian. are you fine with syncing it from debian? (the package needed is mutagen, see bug #33657)02:49
UbugtuMalone bug 33657 in quodlibet "UVF exception 0.17 -> 0.18" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/3365702:49
Kamionhe can clean it up if necessary when he gets back02:49
Kamionslomo: I don't do UVF exceptions by IRC02:49
Kamionslomo: oh, ok, this isn't really a UVF exception02:49
Kamion(from my POV)02:49
Kamionslomo: there are no restrictions on new packages at the moment, although obviously you'll need to fakesync it and use your judgement02:50
slomoKamion: no... it's just the question whether NEW packages for universe are ok in special cases like this for you :)02:50
slomoKamion: ok, thanks02:50
dholbachTheMuso: uploaded02:50
Kamionsorry, a lot of people ask me for UVF exceptions by IRC and I kind of have a knee-jerk response02:51
TheMusodholbach: Ok thanks.02:51
dholbachTheMuso: thank you02:51
Kamionslomo: also, in the bug report you cite, mdz already said he was OK with new packages in universe02:51
Kamionhe outranks me, you don't need my approval separately :)02:52
slomoKamion: hum... ok, sorry... didn't see that for some reason :)02:52
LureKamion, siretart: thanks for pushing n-m/wpasupplicant forward02:54
siretartLure: I'm/we (as in the Debian/Ubuntu wpasupplicant team) are very interested in getting wpasupplicant in good shape for both distributions02:59
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carlosKamion: the database is fixed now. I'm going to do a debian-installer update after lunch03:02
Kamionjanimo: any reason why xubuntu-system-tools' version doesn't match that of gnome-system-tools?03:02
janimoKamion, hmm I just thought it is the first release03:02
carlosKamion: still need to fix the comments problem you pointed this morning03:02
janimobut if it helps I can call it 2.1403:02
Kamioncarlos: great, thanks03:02
janimonot that g-s-t has changed much latesly03:03
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carlosKamion: but I guess that as a workaround, you could merge the .po files again with the .pot file if you wan to reduce the diff03:03
enricoinfinity: hi.  did you get my message here few days ago on how to fix that error in debtags?  (the wrap default values with string() one)03:03
enricoinfinity: and, does it build?03:03
janimoKamion, do you think it should reflect the version of g-s-t it is based on?03:03
Kamionjanimo: aren't you using basically the same upstream tarball (although you seem to have repacked it)?03:03
Kamionjanimo: yes, definitely - that way it will be clear when it is out of date03:03
janimoKamion, same tarball+ubuntu pacthes03:04
Kamionjanimo: it's not the exact same tarball03:04
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Kamiondrwxr-xr-x jani/jani         0 2006-03-23 17:29:08 xubuntu-system-tools-0.1.orig/03:04
Kamionwas it supposed to be the same tarball?03:04
janimobut not the exact same tarball as I modified some bits03:04
janimoit is derived from g-s-t code 03:04
Kamionjanimo: would it be possible for those bits to be in the .diff.gz rather than the .tar.gz, or is that not practical?03:04
janimono it was not , I specifically autoreconfed amonf other things03:04
Kamionok03:04
janimoto get rid of the 600Kb configure patch03:04
janimoKamion, I put the changes in orig as we do not have an upstream here it's all xubuntu specifc (sudo, synaptic)03:05
Kamionperhaps the version number could be something like 2.14.0+1, to reflect its origin?03:06
janimoKamion, I can do that03:06
Kamionunless you're basically planning never to merge from g-s-t again03:06
janimoKamion, g-s-t seemes it did not change a lot lately, but I may merge for dapper+103:07
KamionI always find "it hasn't changed recently, so it won't change in future" to be a false assumption. :)03:07
janimoKamion, I agree, but their version number is somewhat artificial, it just changed to refelect gnome version lately03:08
janimobut ok I can change the version np03:08
janimoshall I upload before you take another look or after it gets in the archive?03:09
Kamiongo ahead and upload03:09
KamionI probably won't be doing much NEW processing today, but I've been meaning to ask you about that one for a few days03:10
janimook03:10
seb128what is that xubuntu-system-tools package?03:10
janimoseb128, g-s-t tweaked to work w/o gnoem deps03:11
janimobasically g-vfs in the shares plugin03:11
infinityenrico: I made that change and got different errors. :)03:12
infinityenrico: Then I delegated it to Riddell, who's the one who's been updating libapt-front without updating debtags. :)03:12
Kamionjanimo: we really need to get more of these things upstream as configure switches03:13
janimoKamion, I'd like that03:13
Kamionduplicated source packages aren't a viable long-term solution03:13
janimohowever seb usually opposes such stuff03:13
janimoand CDBS does not work with multibuilds03:13
Kamionjanimo: surely seb is opposing it in Ubuntu, rather than upstream?03:13
janimoso we got both technical and non-technical hurdles :)03:13
Kamionwithout wishing to put words into his mouth03:13
janimoKamion, I'll approach upstream for dapper+103:14
janimobecause indeed too many packages are duplicated when a bit of ifdeffing and configure tweaks would do03:14
Kamionif CDBS doesn't work for a set of things we need to do, we should stop using it for the relevant packages03:14
janimohowever I found some of the upstreams reluctatnt too so will need to go on a case by case basis03:14
Kamionit is not the be-all and end-all of package maintenance03:14
janimoKamion, most gnome packaging is done with CDBS03:15
Kamion(or else we should get that problem fixed)03:15
Kamionjanimo: ... currently03:15
janimoit would be a regression for them to go back to debhelper just to support a non-gnome config flag03:15
Kamionbah, debhelper is not a regression from cdbs03:15
enricoinfinity: ok :)03:15
janimoKamion, well it is deifnitely more complex as I see it03:15
janimosaved some trouble converting most xfce to it03:15
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tsengjanimo: s/complex/flexible03:15
Kamionbut if you can't do things you need to do in it, don't you see a problem?03:16
janimotseng, indeed. I prefer simplea and flexibe03:16
tsengcdbs isnt exactly either03:16
Kamionduplicating source packages just because some helper is too incapable to do the job is a poor solution03:16
tsengquick and dirty :)03:16
tsengwhich is convenient.. but dont shoehorn it.03:16
infinityIt's a religious argument no one's going to win, kids.03:16
janimoKamion, it is the single thing I cannot do in it, and when it gets pressing I'll look into changing cdbs03:16
janimoKamion, no cdbs is actually not the major hurdle03:17
janimoit is inconveniencing upstream and packagers03:17
infinityI find debhelper rules files more readable because I can actually see (and tweak) what they do, others fine cdbs rules files more readabale because they're short and reasonably predictable (if you understand CDBS)03:17
Kamioninfinity: I don't expect to win, but by the same token "cdbs sucks so let's copy the archive for xubuntu" isn't a viable option03:17
janimoreally if that worked I am sure cdbs could be made to work03:17
KamionI realise it's only one of the obstacles involved03:17
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janimoKamion, well major obstacles first, no need to convert to debhelper if I hit opposition from people later on03:18
jdubjanimo: why do you absolutely have to build everything without gnome deps?03:18
janimoKamion, I don't like duplicating the archive but actuall this is still better than the kde/gnome split03:18
janimowriting a gtk frontend from scratch to system-tools-backend would be a lot more evi03:19
jdubjanimo: ok, different question - why do you need everything to exist without gnome deps?03:19
janimosame for the other gtk- only hack which can be made witha few ifdefs instead of something NIH-driven03:19
infinityjdub: Smaller memory footprint, smaller disk footprint, if Xubuntu's goal is to be tiny and work on slow machines, it does make sense.03:19
Kamionjdub: pulling in gnome libraries for anything means you lose memory-use benefits across the board03:20
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jonohey03:20
janimojdub, for lack of more scientific criteria to achive small footprint I layed down such a rule :)03:20
infinityjdub: When you pull the GNOME stack into RAM, you eat a fair chunk of RAM for libraries you may bever use.03:20
jonohows tricks folks?03:20
janimoalso no kde/mono/java03:20
infinity/sbever/never/03:20
Kamionjdub: or rather, there's no point avoiding any given library for just *one* application - you have to avoid it for the whole desktop or you don't get any wins03:20
Robot101infinity: s^/s^s/^ ? :)03:20
janimojdub, and it's not even just the libs (footprint,startup time)03:21
janimothey also tend to lauch daemons (gconf, esd) because g-vsf links to everything :)03:21
infinityRobot101: Yes, I can't type.03:21
Robot101janimo: what's the take on d-bus? in or out? :D03:21
jdub(i daresay it would be more fruitful to track project ridley to sort this out for the next release instead of patching hither and thither for this release)03:22
janimojdub, also abit more pervertly to show that the app has 99%  of the functionaliy even with 30 (honest) libraries less03:22
janimoRobot101: dbus is ok03:22
Kamionjdub: given that xubuntu want to get something released sooner rather than later, I suspect the answer is "both", not "A instead of B"03:22
janimojdub, I am planning to do that for dapper+1. contact gnome people to have as much of this is 2.16 if possible03:23
jdubKamion: both with limited resources and a lot of mess..03:23
jdubanyway03:23
Kamionjdub: sure, but while I don't like the mess, it is at least constrained and sandboxed03:24
janimojdub, too bad that gtk 2.10 does not cure the lib which is the culprit for most of 'bring in the gnome libs' 03:24
janimothat is gnome_client03:24
jdubjanimo: thus ridley03:24
janimoyes ridley but that is not making it for dapper+103:25
janimoI am all for ridley03:25
Kamionjdub: I think it's a bit unfair to tell people "please wait for this long-term project before making things work now"03:25
Robot101what's happening to gnome client? did everyone decide that X11 sm was too tricky to understand/implement/bother with...? :)03:25
jdubKamion: not that i've said that03:25
janimojdub, the problem is that most apps only use gnome_client out of the gnome stack but that is so intertwined that everything comes in03:25
jdubKamion: and ridley isn't exactly long term - work done on it now would impact the ability to solve these problems03:26
janimoa desktop calculator that needs avahi,esound,bonobo how 2006 is that? :)03:26
Kamionjdub: but not for dapper03:26
j^speaking of reducing memory, bug #36163 would be nice to see in dapper03:26
UbugtuMalone bug 36163 in audiofile "patch to reduce memory of libaudiofile" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/3616303:26
Kamionj^: if I'm reading dapper-changes right, it already is03:26
jdubKamion: it's a cost/benefit thing.03:26
jdubif someone wants to pay that cost03:26
jdubthat's great03:26
jdubbut it boggles me :-)03:27
janimojdub, but with all the experiences from xubuntu I'll hope to get the situation cleaner for dapper+1 with the help of some reasonable gnome devels03:27
Kamionjdub: for the most part, it seems to me that the people working on xubuntu have already paid the cost, so it's a bit late now to say that ...03:27
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jdubjanimo: 'reasonable' - no one is against any of this03:27
jdubKamion: no one would've listened regardless of timing - and rightly so03:28
janimojdub, I have to pay the cost so users don't. That why I am doing this fairly boring part of xubuntu. It would be alot easier to just add gnome- apps to the seeds and be done with it :_)03:28
jdubthat's right03:28
jduband that's pretty much all i'm saying03:28
j^Kamion a cool, closing the bug than03:29
Kamionj^: I just did :)03:29
janimojdub, I know. I was just saying that I am aware that this is not clean and I don't thinks it's good long-term either03:29
jonodoes anyone know of any major UI changes that are planned?03:30
=== jono is a trigger happy screenshot nutter
janimojdub, by reasonable devels I mean those who do not mind adding a config option for a gnome-less build03:30
janimoevince upstream does not qualify right now03:30
jdubjanimo: a build-time config is almost always a silly way to do it03:31
janimo'try gnome, you may like it' is not a valid answer03:31
jdubjanimo: such a waste of time03:31
janimojdub, well some apps do alreday have such configs. goffice has to run on windows too :)03:31
jdubjanimo: it results in more work for maintainers, and benefits *very* few03:31
janimojdub, I'd prefer no build time either03:31
jdubjanimo: there are *some* good reasons to do it (cf. metacity/embedded)03:31
jdubjanimo: there are also bad reasons to do it03:32
janimojdub, as for evince it would have been nice to have a free pdf viewer for windows too instead of acroread03:32
jdubsure, but the maintainers rightfully don't want the stupid waste of time that a configure time option would incur03:33
janimojdub, build-time config is still cleaner than forked source and duplication in ubuntu03:33
jdubin that case, waiting for ridley is not an issue03:33
jdubsure it is03:33
janimojdub, for evince that;s not valid argument as they alreday have quite a few build options03:33
jdubit *is* a valid argument03:33
jdubthe build options in evince aren't as significant a maintenance issue as that03:34
janimowhat is a right argument, I must have lost track of the subject?03:34
janimovalid argument I mean03:34
Kamionis the difference whether the GNOME functionality the application is using is essential to the application (and would therefore have to be reimplemented anyway) or is an optional extra?03:34
janimothis is most of the time about g-vfs which while not essential is useful for those using gnome03:35
jdubKamion: no, the difference is a worthwhile use case03:35
ChipzzARF03:35
ChipzzI HATE nickserv03:36
jduband for various religious reasons, undesireable to others03:36
Chipzzhate hate hate hate HATE03:36
Chipzzdamn POS03:36
azeemChipzz: how is that related to Ubuntu development?03:36
Chipzzazeem: that #ubuntu-devel is on a server which refuses private messages unless you're registered03:37
Kamionjdub: is "please let me build this application without some optional extras because they take up memory and performance my computer doesn't have and I don't need them" a worthwhile use case?03:37
Chipzzand it doesn't help trying to sort something when all of a sudden you're unregistered by the POS03:37
jdubKamion: no, not in general03:37
Kamionbecause that seems to be basically the Xubuntu use case in general03:37
Kamionjdub: I'm confused as to why not, although it may not be productive to go over this now03:38
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Kamionobviously the benefit needs to be significant03:38
jdubKamion: because what you / xubuntu developers might call 'optional extras' are not regarded in the same light by the maintainers03:38
sorush21could I ge a little help with compiling libxine.. ? 03:38
jdubKamion: it's not worth the work of maintaining all the #ifdefs03:39
Kamionjdub: surely the dictionary takes precedence over either :-)03:39
jdubKamion: and these are problems that should be solved properly, not religiously03:39
janimojdub, +1 for not religiously03:40
Kamionsure, but "best solution possible" and "most efficient solution possible because we can't afford the best solution" are not always compatible03:40
janimothat's what I think I am doing now :)03:40
Kamionmany other factors such as attractiveness, generality, usability will be feeding into the first03:40
janimoI wish all gnome devels also thought like that though03:40
jdubjanimo: you're taking on a huge chunk of work for dubious short-term benefit03:41
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janimojdub, not a huge chunk 3 or 4 packages, and I don;t htink the benefit is dubious but this is subjective03:41
Kamionit's true that there are not many duplicated packages involved (having been processing them)03:41
jdubKamion: lots of work is going on *right now* to improve this set of problems in the GTK+/GNOME stack - more hands on the lower priority areas of that effort would help solve the problem.03:42
KamionI was exaggerating somewhat for comic effect when talking about copying the archive03:42
janimojdub, what I said a few pages above. If I did not copied from gnome apps but still wanted the same funtionality it would have been 4-5 entirely new apps with no overlap for03:43
azeemjanimo: maybe track what the OLPC project uses for pdf viewing?03:43
janimobugfixing and other collaboration03:43
azeemor Nokia?03:43
Kamionjdub: not disputing that - just saying that http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/patches/ wouldn't exist if doing everything upstream was always the most expedient option03:43
janimoazeem, why do they know already what teh yuse?03:43
neuralisazeem, janimo: they will almost certainly use evince.03:43
azeemjanimo: I don't know03:43
janimoalthough I am thinking of OLPC too with xubuntu ;)03:43
janimoazeem, it is mostly planning or deep in the bowels of redhat03:44
azeemas is evince03:44
neuralisazeem: the olpc software? nah, it's pretty transparent. read the wiki.03:44
azeemneuralis: ?03:44
janimolaptop.org I assume03:45
neuralisazeem: er, that was going to janimo.03:45
azeemah03:45
neuralisjanimo: yes.03:45
azeemwell, my point is that if OLPC chooses evince, the evince guys might make some modifications favourable for xubuntu03:45
janimoneuralis: was nothing concrete there a week ago or so when I last looked03:45
neuralisjanimo: because there are no concrete decisions yet. but the current thinking is to go with evince.03:46
=== jono is utterly devastated to see the glorious bouncing cow screensaver is not present in dapper
ograjono, it wasnt enabled in breezy or hoary03:47
ograwe just changed policy and only deploy the ones we had enabled before ...03:47
jonoogra, really? it was in breezy wasnt it?03:47
ograbut not in the enabled selection03:47
ograbut instead of delivering all of them and just enable a third, we now only ship this third ... the rest is gone to universe03:48
infinitySure, but it was THERE.03:48
infinityAnd through the magic of a screensaver with preferences, you could select it. :)03:48
ograxscreensaver-gl-extra03:48
ograinfinity, :P03:49
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jonoogra, sounds reasonable, although I think you need to bring back the bouncing cow based up on my demands03:54
jono:P03:54
ograjono, discuss that with several millions of hindi people :P03:55
jonoogra, ahhh, wise point03:56
ograthats we bounce their holy symbol :)03:56
ogra*that03:56
jonohow about a bouncing dog then03:56
jonojust ship a damn bouncing animal03:56
jonohehe03:56
ograsure, make one, i'll accept it gracefully 03:56
jonoanyway, I best get on - keep up the good work as ever chaps :)03:56
ograhave fun :)03:57
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`anthonyogra: make a bouncing mohammed. 03:58
`anthonyor not.03:58
ograi dont want my hose burned down, thanks :)04:01
ogra*my house as well04:01
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jsgotangcogood point04:13
dokoRiddell: do you want to seed openoffice.org2-kde for kubuntu/ship?04:15
Riddelldoko: I suppose I do.  how come openoffice.org2-* returned?04:16
infinityRiddell: For transitional purposes.04:17
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Riddellok, added04:17
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mxpxpodogra: ping04:37
ogramxpxpod, pong04:38
mxpxpodogra: how close are we to getting that brightness fix in for gnome-screensaver for powerpc?04:38
_ionmxpxpod: Hi. You pinged me earlier.04:38
mxpxpod_ion: I was going to ask you about NM and bcm43xx04:38
ogramxpxpod, brightness fix ?04:39
mxpxpodogra: let me get you the malone report04:39
ogramxpxpod, i know what you mean, i was just wondering if you have a fix 04:39
mxpxpodogra: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/gnome-screensaver/+bug/3525604:39
UbugtuMalone bug 35256 in gnome-screensaver "uninitialized DBusError leads to assertion error" [Normal,Confirmed]  04:39
mxpxpodthere's a fix for it attached04:39
ograoh04:39
ograthanks for pointing it out ...04:40
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mxpxpod:)04:40
mxpxpodogra: I've been waiting for a while for that :D04:40
ograyep, will add that with the next upload ..04:41
mxpxpodawesome04:41
mxpxpodthanks a ton04:41
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siretartFYI: Accepted wpasupplicant 0.4.8-0ubuntu2 (source)04:41
siretartif someone gets bitten badly, ping me04:42
mxpxpod_ion: is there a way to tell NM to only use 11Mb/s for the transfer speed on an interface? bcm43xx doesn't work very well above that (or something like 24... I think BenC was using that transfer speed)04:43
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mjg59mxpxpod: There's a patch queued up to default bcm43xx to 11MBit04:44
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mxpxpodmjg59: sweet04:44
BenCmxpxpod: what mjg59 said04:44
mxpxpodthanks for that info04:45
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mjg59Well, strictly it defaults all softmac-using drivers to 11MBit, but that's probably for the best04:46
mxpxpodcool04:46
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tencohi04:47
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janimoseb128, is boot loader management taken out of g-s-t because it is too advanced/risky?04:49
seb128janimo: no, because it doesn't understand automatic grub config update and break it04:50
tencoi wrote a patch for https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/gnome-pilot/+bug/25653 but i am not really a experienced programmer. so, if someone could check my patch for sanity and if it can be integrated into dapper, this would be nice. And some feedback, too. :-)04:50
UbugtuMalone bug 25653 in gnome-pilot "gnome-pilot needs to be ported to new udev world order" [Normal,Needs info]  04:50
seb128janimo: ie the #autogenerated config don't edit by hand ...04:50
janimoseb128, I see04:50
seb128janimo: if you want to have a look and fix it you are welcome :)04:51
janimoseb128, ok I may :)04:51
seb128cool04:51
janimoI thought it was so user are not exposed to such low level details04:51
janimoany patches to g-s-t go to malone as usual I assume. Is someone on #u-d who is 'more in charge' of g-s-t?04:52
seb128mvo dholbach me 04:52
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janimook04:52
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Pygio Lure, hello04:53
LurePygi: hi04:53
tencoor should i post my patch on the ubuntu-devel mailing list (if there is any)?04:54
tencouhu...04:55
seb128tenco: I'm not sure than anybody is really interested by gnome-pilot so it may takes some effort to get somebody interested to review the patch :)04:55
Pygitenco:  there is ubuntu-devel mailing list04:55
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seb128tenco: mailing the list would not make a difference, sending it upstream could be nice04:55
tencoseb128: gpilot upstream is a whole different story, afaics. they use hal, which gpilot 2.0.13 uses not (-> polling)04:56
seb128tenco: we should probably update to 2.0.13 so04:57
fabbioneseb128, dholbach: -3 ?04:57
tencoseb128: gpilot is already at 2.0.1304:57
dholbachfabbione: yepa!04:57
seb128tenco: oh, I didn't parse your sentence correctly, we should update to whatever upstream has using hal04:58
tencoseb128: i thought version freeze has arrived already?04:58
seb128tenco: yeah, but we can ask exceptions04:58
seb128tenco: if the code is broken and upstream has a nicely work hal code that seems a good reason to ask for an exception04:59
tencoseb128: i dont know if it works nicely, since cvs didnt compile on my machine05:00
tencoseb128: gpilot cvs version...05:00
seb128tenco: ok, I'll have a look at upstream changes to know if we should update, if we don't update to use that hal code I'll have a look on your patch then. Does that works for you? Thanks anyway for your work on that :)05:02
tencoseb128: that works for me. thanks! :-)05:03
seb128np05:04
tencobye05:04
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sivanghmm, how good is our Novell Netware Filesystem support ?05:32
bddebianWho the hell runs Netware anymore? :-)05:36
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sivangbddebian: I have a friend working in a library who wants to implement Ubuntu in the server farm, however there's quite some NOvell systems over there, so mandatory condition for his managers to accept Ubuntu will be integrability with Novell Netware.05:37
bddebianAh05:37
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lucashi05:39
jpatrickhallo lucas05:40
lucaswho handles the moderation of the ubuntu-backports mailing list ? a mail I sent has been waiting for a week now ...05:40
lucasah05:40
lucasmez05:40
lucasit's written on the mailman page05:40
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Pygisivang: we have ncpfs :-/05:44
Pygiand libpam-ncp05:45
sivangPygi: thank you, I'll paste him the apt-cache shows of those :)05:47
Pygisivang: k, hopefully it will help05:47
Pygisivang: libpam-mount can perhaps help as well05:49
sivangPygi: yes, if not, I'll have to join MOTU to make it work, this is a very good freind of mine, which I want to help him utiltize ubuntnu in his library :-)05:49
Pygisivang: hm, I know Novell was writing Netware client for Suse and their Desktop :-/05:49
Pygisivang: I am not aware of any other client, but that's just me05:50
sivangPygi: I found out they were planning about it in december 2004, not sure when the client stands today.05:50
Pygisivang: hm, sec, I'll look it up for you05:50
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pittisladen: let's see whose hal upload wins :)05:56
pittiKinnison: did you see the two hal uploads on dapper-changes? they could hardly have got accepted *both*?05:57
Pygisivang: still here?05:57
ograpitti, wow ...05:57
Pygijoy :-S05:57
Kamionpitti: https://launchpad.net/products/launchpad-upload-and-queue/+bug/3103805:58
UbugtuMalone bug 31038 in launchpad-upload-and-queue "two accept messages for different udev 079-0ubuntu9 uploads" [Critical,Confirmed]  05:58
pittiouch05:58
sladenpitti: *grin*.  you're on!05:58
Pygisivang: this could give you some info, but I don't recommend using this:  http://novelclient.sourceforge.net/05:59
pittisladen: can you please send me your debdiff, so that I don't need to wait for hours to merge?06:00
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sladenpitti: http://www.paul.sladen.org/ubuntu/upload/hal_0.5.7-1ubuntu8sladen1.debdiff06:04
pittisladen: thanks06:04
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mxpxpodKinnison: ping06:06
sivangPygi: yes06:08
Pygisivang: scroll up...I pasted a link for you06:08
sivangPygi: I already saw thi,s but it uses Kylix or something right?06:08
Pygisivang: hm, n ot sure ...06:09
Pygis/n ot/not06:09
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pittisladen: I guess your hal upload fixed bug 22451? can you please close the task if so?06:37
UbugtuMalone bug 22451 in gnome-power-manager "g-p-m should display battery status on KEY_F24 (covering for KEY_BATTERY)" [Wishlist,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/2245106:37
sladenpitti: yeah, I close them when I get the "accepted email..." :)06:38
pittisladen: you didn't already?06:38
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pittisladen: ubuntu10 was accepted, which merged our 9 versions06:39
pittierm, I cannot close upstream/Debian tasks any more *grumpf*06:42
seb128pitti: no, it's supposed to autoupdate on the upstream bug tracker :p06:42
pittithere isn't06:43
pittiI just created a task for Debian and talk with Denis over Launchpad06:43
pitti(bug 34738)06:43
UbugtuMalone bug 34738 in belocs-locales-data "tr_TR has wrong currency" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/3473806:43
janimopitti, where are the generated .pot files supposed to be in a deb?06:43
pittijanimo: not in the .deb06:43
pittijanimo: just in the po/ directory; po/<domain>.pot, to be precise06:43
janimohmm so only buildd needs that file?06:44
janimoor who uses them?06:44
pittiyes, pkgstriptranslations will pick it up and feed it to rosetta06:44
seb128pitti: oh, if the task is not pointing to an another tracker that's a bug, I discussed it on #launchpad like 1 hour ago06:44
pittiseb128: ah, so known; thanks06:44
pittijanimo: so it just needs to be 'there' :)06:44
janimopitti, I see06:45
janimowell I made a langpack.mk and an xfce.mk to use it06:45
janimowho do I sent them ? :)06:45
pittijanimo: just send them to me, I'll update cdbs06:45
janimopitti, will do06:45
pittijanimo: or do you have an xfce-build-tools pacakge?06:45
janimopitti, no06:45
janimothere is an xfce-dev-tools but not needed for regular work06:46
janimoonly for building svn upstream06:46
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janimopitti, sent the mail with the cdbs rule and classes06:55
janimodholbach: ping06:56
dholbachjanpong06:56
dholbachjanimo: pong06:56
janimohi daniel06:56
janimoany objections againt tango being in main?06:56
janimoother that it's a nother package to support?06:56
=== _ion loves the Tango icons.
janimowe are talking about what icon theme to go with for xubuntu06:56
janimoand since we're quite helpless and some tango people said they'de help us iff we go with tango 06:57
janimowe are talking it over 06:57
dholbachI need to talk about the Icon Plans with Mark and Jeff, but if you need it for xubuntu06:58
janimoour requirement is to be complete and not ugly. we're not too pretentious06:58
janimodholbach, would tango in main interfere with the default of ubntu? in that case is somewhat understandable06:58
dholbachthat's not sorted out completely yet06:58
janimoFWIW I though ttango has been in main all this time06:58
dholbachno it wasn't06:59
janimodholbach: ok I see06:59
dholbachicon-naming-utils was for some time06:59
dholbach(because for 2-3 releases gnome-icon-theme was built with it)06:59
janimowell if anything comes up please ping ;)06:59
dholbachabsolutely06:59
ograjanimo, edubuntu ships a brown tango theme in edubuntu-artwork 06:59
janimothanks06:59
janimoogra, will edubuntu not go with ubuntu's default theme?06:59
ograwe could split that out separately ... (even if i'm not really after this)06:59
janimofor dapper?06:59
janimothe only thing I am after is a complete and consistent icontheme07:00
ograerr, why should it ? 07:00
janimoogra, just asking07:00
ograwe had our own theme in breezy, why should we drop that ?07:00
janimodid not know, I haven;t seen an edubuntu yet :)07:00
ograin fact the opposite is the case, i just recently made edubuntu-artwork a standalone package07:01
janimook07:01
janimobut do all these themes follow the naming part of tango if not the art guidelines?07:01
ograwe go with the ubuntulooks engine but will have our own gtkrc ... gartoon icons and our own splash and wallpaper07:01
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ogratango should be fine policy wise ...07:02
sladenogra: mmmm, it's tempting to install edubuntu-artwork on ubuntu to get sane colours back...07:04
ograsladen, try the "plain" theme (dpkg-reconfigure edubuntu-artwork) if you want to try it ... :)07:04
ograits the one for grown ups :)07:04
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sladenogra: oooh, ta07:08
pittijanimo: where did you send it to? I don't have a mail from you07:09
pittijanimo: oops, /me fishes out of spam folder07:09
sladenmjg59: what are the alternative options for powering off/rebooting a machine if it just sits there.  Something like  reboot=apm07:11
siretartpitti: wpasupplicant should be ready for approval for main now. The current version builds with qt3, so I think all build-depends should be available in main now (assuming this was the last problem)07:11
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Riddell_mvo_: does app-install include an example commercial program?07:17
pittijanimo: hm, I wouldn't recommend including simple-patchsys.mk and autotools.mk into xfce.mk07:17
pittijanimo: (and I'm cleaning up the files as well)07:17
pittijanimo: and actually not even debhelper.mk; I'll remove these unless you have any objections07:19
pittijanimo: (so it ends up as only including langpack.mk now)07:19
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janimopitti, ok07:30
janimobut I am including those by hand in all xfce rules07:30
pittiright07:30
janimoso what is the reason you do not recommend07:30
pittijanimo: but there might be packages which use dpatch or quilt07:31
janimopitti, but not in xfce land07:31
pittijanimo: or not autotools07:31
janimoxfce I'll strictly use for xfce proper07:31
janimonot anything xubuntu related07:31
pittihm07:31
pittijanimo: well, ok, it's your playground anyway07:31
janimoI have converted debians debhelper/dpatch/cdbs mix to all cdbs07:31
janimoand am going to propose them as well07:31
pittijanimo: so if you really want, I leave them in07:31
janimopitti, if there are no technical reasons against it yes07:32
pittialright07:32
janimoand I'll use it judiciously and convert packages one by one so as to not break everthing all at once if something is wrong07:32
pittijanimo: really, dpatch is very common...07:33
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Kamionsladen: reboot=b (BIOS) is a common one07:33
janimopitti, I know but I have converted the packages using it do simple pachsys07:33
pittiuh07:33
janimoit was using cdbs anyway07:33
janimopitti, any prob with that?07:34
pittijanimo: that seems like a lot of work for no real reason; cdbs works fine with dpatch07:34
pittijanimo: no, no problem, it just seems like an unnecsssary diff to me07:34
janimopitti, consistency, as I was planning an xfce.mk for a while07:34
pittiok, seems to work so far07:34
janimowe have totally new packages wrt debian07:34
janimoso it's not a diff now but a rewrite07:35
janimoas they do not yet package xfce 4.307:35
Robot101janimo: did you speak to their maintainer?07:35
janimoso I'll propose the cleaner packages once they need them so we converege again07:35
janimoRobot101: I am incontact with them07:35
janimoxfce-pkg team07:35
janimotheir tandenecy is to make new packages use cdbs anyway07:36
janimoI just converted the legacy ones07:36
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pittijanimo: wb ;)07:42
pittijanimo: just wrote you mail, I uploaded it07:42
janimopitti, yeah systray bug :)07:42
janimokills all that's in the tray :)07:42
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janimothanks07:42
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janimomvo, can I ping you about the update-manager & gconf issue?08:01
janimoI guess I already did :)08:01
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sivanganybody have an idea if the current daily should have truobles selecting keyboard layout?08:07
sivangit seems to not let me choose american english08:07
sivangargh, the red debconf window again08:08
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zyga_seb128: how do I get stuff from cvs.gnome.org anonymously? the FAQ is outdated and doesn't work08:29
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slomozyga: cvs -z3 -d:pserver:anonymous@anoncvs.gnome.org:/cvs/gnome co -P module08:30
zyga_hum!08:31
zyga_thanks slomo08:31
zyga_annoncvs looked so similar to cvs that I've missed it08:32
slomohehe08:32
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CarlFKdapper daily - "failed : select a keyboard"08:52
sivangCarlFK: me as well 08:53
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sivangCarlFK: went crazy about this ;-/08:53
CarlFKindeed08:53
=== sivang tries to download an older ISO
sivangI need it for some certifications..:-/08:54
=== sivang downloads flight 5
sivang(instead)08:57
Kamionsivang: yes, known problem, should be fixed by tomorrow's build08:57
Kamionsivang,CarlFK: workaround: go through the "press some keys" selector first08:57
sivangKamion: let me try.08:58
CarlFKk - Ill stop trying to figure out how to post a log file with the correct permissions ;)08:58
sivangheh08:58
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Kamiongoing through the big list of available keymaps should work too09:01
Kamionor selecting the test option09:01
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sivangKamion: yay, works09:11
sivangheh, offered hostname: foxbox09:11
sivangKamion: nice going to the dhcp configuration, I see now you can stop it in the middle of it's wrong or not suitable for you type of network09:13
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CarlFKsivang: where did foxbox come from?09:43
sivangCarlFK: no idea09:43
sivangCarlFK: probably somehwere over hte lAN here09:44
CarlFKif the dhcp server sends a hostname, the installer will default to that09:44
CarlFKI was thinking it was a new default 09:44
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Amarantharg09:48
Amaranthno wonder it tried making mine my ip address09:48
Amaranthstupid cable company sends that as a hostname09:48
sivangAmaranth: yes that's the usual case with cable providers09:49
CarlFKi'v seen that09:49
sivangAmaranth: happened in evey installation I've deon for cable using people09:49
Amaranthit's worse on os x, it automagically changes your hostname and won't let you change it back09:50
CarlFKwow09:50
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rcaskey_At some point should RestrictedFormats be split up by version?09:54
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sivangAmaranth: yes, i've seen those quirks on os x09:58
sivangnot found of it at all09:58
Amaranthi suppose having my ip as my hostname is better than travis-watkins-mac-mini09:58
Amaranthwhich it seemed to like to randomly switch back to09:59
sivanghehe10:00
mjg59Hrngh.10:01
mjg59I've got a machine here that's hiberating, rebooting and the hibernating again10:01
mjg59It's done that 20 times now without a single problem10:01
mjg59WHY DOES IT BREAK FOR EVERYONE EXCEPT M?10:01
mjg59(+E)10:01
Luremjg59: not sure, but my nw8240 broke somewhere after -1510:02
mjg59Lure: This is a nc6220, so the hardware is almost identical10:02
LureI was thinking is it more common stuff between broken laptops, like for example ATI card or similar?10:03
Luremjg59: ATI?10:03
mjg59No, that's the only significant difference10:03
mjg59But I can't think why a kernel change would have caused that10:03
mjg59If you go back to the -15 kernel, things work?10:03
Lureyes - flight4 kernel actually10:04
mjg59Changing absolutely nothing else?10:04
LureI tested it with klaptop and kpowersave10:04
Luremjg59: just the kernel10:04
mjg59And what failure do you get?10:04
LureDid fresh flight4 install just because of that10:04
Lureresume ends reading from swap and stays there (hung)10:04
mjg59Right10:05
LureAlso installer of Flight5 hangs on splash screen10:05
mjg59Which splash screen?10:06
Lureusplash -I do not get install menu at all - see bug 3458610:07
UbugtuMalone bug 34586 in linux-source-2.6.15 "Kubuntu Dapper 20060312 cannot install on HP nw8240" [Major,Needs info]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/3458610:07
mjg59Right10:07
mjg59Out of my field, then10:07
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Luremjg59: from reports, ther have different graphic card (Intel, ATI) and they detected this regression when going from -17 (works) to -18 (broken)10:10
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mjg59Lure: -19 works fine here, so it's really hard to debug10:12
mjg59How much RAM do you have?10:12
Lure1 GB10:12
mjg59Ok. That's probably the difference.10:12
mjg59Hmm.10:13
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Luremjg59: looking at -18 change log https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/dapper-changes/2006-March/007440.html10:14
Lurethis looks interesting: Revert to 1/3GB physical mem. Should fix valgrind among other things.10:14
mjg59Yes10:14
Luremjg59: is this safe: Lots of Mactel related patches from mjg59.10:15
lamontmvo: ping10:16
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lamontor maybe not mvo...10:16
mjg59Lure: Yes10:16
=== lamont did an apt-get dist-upgrade to dapper from breezy+security, and the machine locked out the keyboard somewhere around restarting pcmcia services...
lamontrebooting led to a bunch of segv's and stoppage in initramfs, with no keyboard...10:16
Luremjg59: I will get the sources and do some bisection removal of patches 10:17
lamontlivecd boot, chroot, dpkg --configure -a made it happier again10:17
mjg59Lure: It's probably the 1:3 split thing10:17
=== Lure will do this with Ubuntu kernel first time - no sure how hard it is
mvolamont: hello?10:19
lamontjust bitching about dist-upgrade to dapper mvo10:20
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mvolamont: aha, ok. read it now. stupid pcmcia10:23
RiddellKamion: espresso kde ready for merging, http://kubuntu.org/~jriddell/espresso/ubuntu/10:23
lamontmvo: neat thing is, no pcmcia in the box10:23
lamonthrm... I think I'm about to find out if purging all of the removed packages was a bad ideaa...10:24
lamontbrb10:24
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jelabarreI'm a bit confused on the issue of middle-click vs scroll-wheel defaults for multi-button mice.  Having tried a "dist-upgrade" as well as a clean install of Dapper flight5, I find the extra buttons on my Logitech Marble Mouse can no longer be configured to work as a middle-button.  I have the impression that was done intentionally, but figured I should check before filing a bug report10:34
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mjg59Lure: Ok, testing with 1GB. I seem to be able to reproduce the failure.10:39
Luremjg59: great!10:39
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Luremjg59: just downloaded kernel source - it seems that it does not have debian/patches as other packages :-(10:42
mjg59Lure: Correct10:43
=== lamont looks for seb128
seb128if you have a question ask quickly, I was going to stop working for today10:50
seb128but no hurry I can reply to a question before :)10:50
lamontwell, I did a dpkg --purge of all the rc packages from dpkg -l....10:50
lamontnow gnome won't let me login.10:50
lamontbut getty has no objections10:50
lamontthoughts?10:50
seb128how it won't let you login?10:50
seb128hangs? crash? go back to gdm?10:50
lamonttakes user, pass, clears the screen and goes back to the login screen10:51
lamontthere is a brief period of time where I see a getty prompt on the screen10:51
seb128do you have gnome-session installed?10:52
seb128anything to ~/.xsession-errors maybe?10:52
lamontyep10:52
lamont64 lines of stuff10:52
lamont/etc/gdm/Xsession: Beginning session setup...10:53
lamontSESSION_MANAGER=local/mib:/tmp/.ICE-unix/627210:53
lamontGnome-Message: gnome_execute_async_with_env_fds: returning -110:53
lamont** (update-notifier:6363): DEBUG: tray_icons_init10:53
lamontWarning: Missing charsets in String to FontSet conversion10:53
lamont...10:53
lamontmind you that's from a while ago...10:53
seb128<lamont> Gnome-Message: gnome_execute_async_with_env_fds: returning -110:53
lamontmind you, that's > 20 m in ago10:54
seb128seems it's trying to start something no installed10:54
seb128hum10:54
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lamontpossible that something didn't get properly owned by the replacing package, and therefore got nuked when I purged config files from all the removed stuff?10:54
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seb128what happen if you run gnome-session from a failsafe other session or from wmaker or something beeing not-GNOME?10:55
seb128I don't think any missing config file could do that10:55
lamontneato.  failsafe terminal session gets the same results10:55
seb128xorg bog10:56
lamontdanke10:56
seb128np :p10:56
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j^lamont try to remove ~/.ICEauthority10:56
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j^which is overwritten by one only rw by root in some cases of running an app with sudo10:58
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lamontj^ no dice11:01
lamontdoes gdm have a verbose mode?11:03
lamontdlopen: /usr/lib/xorg/modules/extensions/libGLcore.so: undefined symbol: __glXLastContext11:03
lamont(EE) Failed to load /usr/lib/xorg/modules/extensions/libGLcore.so11:03
lamont(EE) Failed to load module "GLcore" (loader failed, 7)11:03
lamontfrom /var/log/gdm/:0.log11:04
lamontso....11:04
lamontwhat do I comment out where?11:04
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j^ Load    "GLcore"?11:05
lamonterror opening security policy file /etc/xserver/SecurityPolicy11:05
lamontthat one looks more fatal...11:05
mvolamont: /etc/X11/xorg.conf the GLcore modules11:05
tepsipakkithe modules are loaded right away, before login11:06
tepsipakkiso it shouldn't affect that, I think11:06
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lamontmachine at home has the same error messages11:13
lamontbut worked last I looked11:13
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=== lamont tries reinstalling everything
=== lamont notices that apt-get --reinstall install $(list of installed packages) tends to annoy dpkg
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=== lamont wonders which package decided to remove /etc/alternatives/x-session-manager...
lamontsounds like a gnome bug11:46
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kmonHi, a recent update has borked my dapper install and I can no longer play dvd's. Is this a known bug?12:00
lamont  es_GT.UTF-8... tr: extra operand `t'12:00
lamontTry `tr --help' for more information.12:00
lamontdone12:00
lamontneato12:00

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