[03:07] <LaserJock> hi seth
[03:07] <seth> hi LaserJock
[03:30] <bmonty> hi LaserJock
[03:46] <LaserJock> hi bmonty
[03:46] <bmonty> evening :)
[03:48] <LaserJock> how's the family?
[03:48] <bmonty> great! my Mom is visiting with us this week
[03:48] <LaserJock> fun
[03:50] <Unfrgiven> LaserJock: hey dude. did you get a chance to look at the diff?
[03:50] <LaserJock> yeah, just applied some
[03:51] <LaserJock> I put the chroot section into the Appendix and I beefed up to the tools section
[03:53] <Unfrgiven> LaserJock: shouldn't the chroot stuff belong in the tools section? the idea is to keep a clean standard working environment and have a separate development environment? if we move it to the appendix, it would imply that the chroot is optional - when in fact we are saying that its the proper way to work (kinda like not working as root when using linux in general)
[03:53] <LaserJock> Unfrgiven: I really don't think a chroot is *neccesary* when you have a pbuilder
[03:54] <LaserJock> Unfrgiven: it is nice to have now and then but I'd like to keep the requirements as low as possible
[03:54] <LaserJock> and get people to the real packaging as soon as possible
[03:54] <psusi> pbuilder is a tool to manage a build chroot
[03:55] <psusi> it handles it for you
[03:55] <LaserJock> psusi: we know ;-)
[03:55] <Unfrgiven> LaserJock: true but when trying to create a new package from scratch, you tend not to use pbuilder till the end... the initial "./configure" tends to be in ur own environment not the pbuilder one
[03:55] <Unfrgiven> and the configure wont work without the relevant -dev packages
[03:55] <LaserJock> but you are also likely to have done that before anyway so...
[03:56] <psusi> I usually do all my building with pbuilder since I don't feel like installing the -dev packages and you should test that it builds in pbuilder anyhow before uploading
[03:56] <Unfrgiven> LaserJock: done what? if you mean install -dev packages then i disagree. i only install the -dev packages in my chroot.
[03:57] <LaserJock> psusi: we are saying pbuilder is a given. the discussion is about using a seperate chroot
[03:57] <Unfrgiven> psusi: pbuilder can be very slow when starting to package an ap[p from the start.
[03:57] <bmonty> ./configure would be run as part of the package build in the pbuilder
[03:57] <psusi> why create the wheel twice?
[03:57] <psusi> the entire purpose of pbuilder is to create and manage a chroot for you
[03:57] <Unfrgiven> psusi: no the purpose of pbuilder is to build your packages. not to use freely as a chroot environment
[03:57] <LaserJock> psusi: we are talking about having a chroot in which you install stuff etc and work in, rather than just for buliding
[03:58] <psusi> I saw on the mailing list someone recently patched builder to use unionfs for the chroot rather than constantly untaring a pristine tarball... should make it much faster
[03:58] <psusi> Unfrgiven, right... but if your goal is to build packages, why would you also maintain another build chroot?
[03:58] <Unfrgiven> psusi: this is getting off-topic.
[03:59] <crimsun> guh, iptables 1.3.5?
[03:59] <Unfrgiven> psusi: because when you are trying to build a NEW PACKAGE FROM SCRATCH, you tend to install the -dev packages to test build the app. then you start working on the /debian/* files
[03:59] <LaserJock> I think chroots are nice but I just don't think it is really essential for learning how to package. That is why I think we can definately use it in the Packaging Guide but I'm thinking that it is better placed in the Appendix
[04:00] <crimsun> Unfrgiven: actually the first thing I tend to do is read the INSTALL/README from upstream, and experience has given me an indication of which -dev packages to use in debian/control:Build-Depends
[04:00] <psusi> well if you really want to work that way you can pbuilder login ;)
[04:00] <LaserJock> maybe we should just link to the Appendix at the beginning of the example, what would you think about that?
[04:01] <Unfrgiven> crimsun: i do to but i guess i just dont like running pbuilder until i'm almost there with the package. pbuilder is quite slow to startup and clean up.
[04:01] <psusi> LaserJock, I disagree... maybe I'm different, but when I learned to package I learned first by trying to work with an existing package not build a new one... crawl before you run and all
[04:01] <LaserJock> psusi: yeah, but that is sort of hard to but in a Guide ;-)
[04:01] <crimsun> Unfrgiven: understandable. It takes about 2 minutes to untar here.
[04:02] <psusi> wow
[04:02] <Unfrgiven> psusi: this is getting off topic. LaserJock and I discussing where to put a section of the document. you are questioning what use a chroot is. please stay on topic
[04:02] <LaserJock> I use chroots quite a bit to get Debian and other Ubuntu releases
[04:03] <LaserJock> crimsun: a lot faster here
[04:03] <psusi> sorry, I thought someone had asked a question about chroots to build in rather than pbuilder
[04:03] <LaserJock> psusi: np, we are discussing http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html
[04:04] <Unfrgiven> all im saying is that using a development chroot is a good practice to have. it keeps ur normal working environment separate from your development one. a development environment is usually full of random -dev packages which you don't want in ur standard working environment. if things get messy, its much easier to recreate a chroot than rebuild ur standard environment
[04:05] <psusi> Unfrgiven, right.... that's what I use pbuilder for
[04:05] <dolson> this is damn ridiculous
[04:05] <psusi> heh
[04:05] <dolson> every damn day this system locks up
[04:05] <Unfrgiven> psusi: except that when you make a change in ur pbuilder environment, using pbuilder --login, it is persisted.
[04:06] <Unfrgiven> psusi: that means ur pbuilder env is no longer reliable for building pacakges
[04:06] <LaserJock> Unfrgiven: I can understand that it is nice. I'm just don't think we should make in manditory and making the chroot isn't exactly trivial
[04:06] <LaserJock> I'm feeling bad making people make a pbuilder before they get into packaging
[04:07] <bmonty> LaserJock: its kinda like if they don't want to make the pbuilder, they don't really want to build packages
[04:07] <Unfrgiven> psusi: you may inherently install a -dev in ur pbuilder env - which makes it permanent for future pbuilder invocations. so if you package something next time, you *may* miss the build depency easily - thereby defeating the purpose of using pbuilder in the first place
[04:08] <LaserJock> bmonty: well, that is why I'm willing to do pbuilder
[04:08] <Unfrgiven> LaserJock: remember we want to teach people to package things the right way. i know the setup is a pain but its worth it in the long run. i'll leave the decision up to you but i think we're doing the readers a favour by encouraging the use of a chroot development environment.
[04:08] <LaserJock> bmonty: it raises the bar a bit and I think we really want people using pbuilder
[04:08] <dolson> pbuilder setup isn't much of a pain, if you ask me
[04:09] <bmonty> thats true also :)
[04:09] <psusi> Unfrgiven, true
[04:10] <LaserJock> Unfrgiven: I'm happy with linking to the chroot section in the appendix
[04:11] <Unfrgiven> LaserJock: ok, but i think we should add some text that really encourages the use of the chroot. so we've made it optional but made the point that it is highly recommended.
[04:11] <LaserJock> yes, I agree
[04:12] <robertj> Are there public buildds that people can use to submit trusted compiles of trusted source from untrusted users to 3rd party projects?
[04:13] <LaserJock> Unfrgiven: I think I'll add a "tip" at the beginning of each example, how does that sound?
[04:13] <LaserJock> or at least on the first
[04:15] <Unfrgiven> LaserJock: sounds good! can you let me know when you've uploaded to the svn server?
[04:17] <LaserJock> yeah
[04:18] <Unfrgiven> LaserJock: thanks
[06:04] <twinoatl> Hi
[06:04] <twinoatl> who is responsible for squeak-vm package ?
[06:05] <crimsun> all of us are, why/
[06:05] <twinoatl> Somebody told me to test this package and tell ubuntu-motu what needs to be changed/what is good etc.
[06:06] <twinoatl> Where can I do this ?
[06:06] <crimsun> twinoatl: I'm not sure what your objective is
[06:07] <crimsun> twinoatl: what issues do you have with the 3.7.7-5ubuntu2 version in dapper?
[06:07] <twinoatl> crimsun, I'm a squeak user and I would like squeak packages to be ready to use when dapper is released
[06:08] <twinoatl> Note 1 : I would like Squeak not to be in 'Sound And Video' category. It has nothing to do with this. It is more 'education' and 'development'
[06:08] <crimsun> twinoatl: then please install squeak-vm from multiverse, test it, and report any bugs you experience at https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+filebug
[06:09] <twinoatl> I'll make my report to launchpad then
[06:09] <twinoatl> thanks
[06:10] <crimsun> RE: Note 1: It's a desktop file bugfix. Just modify that file, generate a debdiff, and upload it as an attachment to your bug report.
[06:11] <twinoatl> crimsun, I have do this. Can you explain me how to do a debdiff ?
[06:12] <twinoatl> crimsum, my first comment : apt-get source squeak-vm
[06:12] <twinoatl> s/comment/command
[06:12] <crimsun> twinoatl: debdiff is in the 'devscripts' package
[06:13] <twinoatl> crimsun, installing devscripts
[06:14] <crimsun> huh, broken fixingbugs link on the wiki
[06:19] <twinoatl> crimsun, where is the file with the desktop file ?
[06:20] <crimsun> sec, getting source
[06:21] <crimsun> linex/squeak.desktop
[06:22] <twinoatl> crimsun, thanks
[06:27] <twinoatl> crimsun, do I need to recreate the .deb to use debdiff ? How do you do that ?
[06:28] <twinoatl> crimsun, what are the different menus I can use instead of AudioVideo ?
[06:32] <crimsun> http://standards.freedesktop.org/menu-spec/latest/apa.html
[06:32] <crimsun> and yes, you need to build a deb to create a debdiff
[06:33] <crimsun> err, well, you need to at least generate .d{sc,iff.gz} and .changes
[06:33] <crimsun> so strictly speaking you don't _have_ to create a binary deb
[06:33] <twinoatl> crimsun, how do I generate those files ?
[06:34] <crimsun> after you've modified the necessary file(s), debuild -S
[06:35] <crimsun> (that creates a source package, which is what you need to generate a debdiff)
[06:35] <twinoatl> thanks, I will try
[06:56] <twinoatl> crimsun, I have just commit two bugs and confirmed two more
[07:03] <twinoatl> crimsun, thanks for your help
[07:09] <Erlang> I just added a debdiff which should fix 'praat' on AMD64.  See 3442.
[07:20] <Erlang> hmm, guess I could have done a fakesync at the same time.
[07:45] <juuva> !tv elok
[07:46] <juuva> sry wrong channel
[09:02] <dholbach> good morning
[09:02] <ajmitch> hi
[09:05] <lifeless> moin moni
[09:07] <Mongoose> hey
[09:07] <ajmitch> ?
[09:39] <Gloubiboulga> hello MOTU world
[09:49] <zakame> hi all
[10:04] <ajmitch> hi zakame
[10:10] <Toadstool> hi everybody
[11:42] <verwilst_> woohoow, pure-ftpd 1.0.21 works like a charm!
[12:25] <kelmo> hi siretart
[12:26] <siretart> huhu kelmo :)
[12:26] <siretart> kelmo: we are communicating great via email, I think :)
[12:26] <siretart> just sent you another email
[12:26] <kelmo> hehe, yeah, for public transparency ; )
[12:26] <kelmo> but good we are discussing this stuff
[12:26] <kelmo> i really apreciate  it
[12:26] <siretart> same here
[12:27] <siretart> yeah, but I also think that the 'manual' vs 'dhcp' mode needs to be more elaborated than it could be done on irc
[12:28] <kelmo> yep, but thats a moot point i think, the other mode's are far more important
[12:28] <siretart> short: I really think that the if-pre-up script should wait for a dhcp lease
[12:28] <siretart> so you agree that it should be 'dhcp' rather than 'manual'?
[12:28] <siretart> (or better I let you answer that email :)
[12:30] <siretart> yesterday, I forgot to cc: you, and it took ages for alioth to deliver that email. :/
[12:33] <kelmo> yeah, it is slow at times
[12:34] <kelmo> siretart: i'll let my last three commits answer your questions
[12:35] <kelmo> also, there is a hacked preinst there, if we can make it better , than i am just about happy for upload
[12:36] <kelmo> look ok?
[12:36] <kelmo> (apart from preinst)
[12:37] <siretart> the action script seems still to be in /etc/wpasupplicant/action.d
[12:38] <kelmo> err, only if you did not purge an already installed *experimental* package
[12:38] <kelmo> or are you looking in the binary itself?
[12:38] <siretart> ok, was just looking at the wrong diff
[12:39] <kelmo> hmm, have not removed the init script yet
[12:39] <kelmo> will do so now, ok
[12:40] <kelmo> i am not unhappy to see it go ; )
[12:40] <siretart> ok. I also think that this is good enough for experimental
[12:41] <siretart> for unstable, I'd like to hack up a bit a debconf warning, will handle this
[12:42] <siretart> ok. the initscript is now officially deprecated and gone from svn :)
[12:42] <kelmo> siretart: yes please (warning in transitional package)
[12:42] <kelmo> so, how about this for a plan:
[12:43] <kelmo> lets ask for upload to experiemntal ; )
[12:43] <kelmo> fix bugs that are reported/found during its stay there
[12:43] <siretart> kelmo: do you have a sponsor? I think that kyle might be too busy
[12:43] <siretart> otherwise I can ask nobse..
[12:43] <kelmo> improve debconf/preinst warinings
[12:44] <kelmo> work on some transistional stuff for next unstable upload
[12:44] <siretart> yes
[12:44] <siretart> the network-manager maintainer has asked me when we finally upload 0.4.8 with the apscan patch ;)
[12:44] <kelmo> yes, we should do that
[12:45] <siretart> perhaps we can ask ajmitch to sponsor? ;)
[12:45] <kelmo> i have sponsors for various stuff, but they are not in close contact with me
[12:45] <kelmo> and i assume are also busy
[12:45] <siretart> ok
[12:45] <kelmo> siretart: many thanks for setting me straight on those few issues
[12:46] <kelmo> i know now what you were saying about the inet mode
[12:46] <siretart> kelmo: I have to thanks for YOUR work. it really rocks hard!
[12:46] <kelmo> and definately don't want files marked as conffiles unless they really need to be
[12:46] <kelmo> siretart: well, i need a push every now and then ; )
[12:46] <siretart> right. we have enough other things which can bite us ;)
[12:47] <siretart> lets hope that Keybuk answers us soon
[12:47] <kelmo> ok, i hope you can also arrange an upload to ubuntu?
[12:48] <kelmo> the last upload sent shivers down my spine, it was based on immature code
[12:48] <siretart> I could, but I'd like to hear Keybuk first
[12:48] <kelmo> users will end up with and extra device file ; )
[12:48] <kelmo> s/and/a
[12:48] <siretart> If I don't hear anything from him until tomorrow, I'll update wpasupplicant tomorrow
[12:50] <kelmo> siretart: Kyle did say he would upload for us
[12:50] <kelmo> in a recent mail
[12:50] <siretart> hm, shall we try to ask him again?
[12:50] <kelmo> sure, i'd say he is waiting for it ; ) we *should* ask him first anyways
[12:51] <siretart> ok. I'll write him an email
[12:51] <kelmo> cool, thanks
[12:54] <siretart> after this got uploaded, I'd suggest that we move the packaging from the experimental branch to our 0.4.8 branch and work ther from then
[12:55] <kelmo> sure, just let me know when the change is coming/done
[12:56] <siretart> woah, alioth is quick today. interesting
[12:57] <siretart> to the others on this channel: are you annoyed that we discuss development of debian packages in this channel? if you are, we can also move somewhere else, but I think we are rather increasing than decreasing the s/n ratio :)
[12:57] <kelmo> okay, i can make a bit of time for wpasupplicant again on the weekend
[12:58] <kelmo> its been fun working on it, cheers siretart
[12:58] <siretart> kelmo: same here :) - lets continue this way :)
[12:59] <siretart> I intend to 'port' this work to trunk and work on smooth integration of an action script with whereami
[12:59] <siretart> that could be a really rocking roaming solution, I think
[01:00] <kelmo> well, thatd be superb
[01:00] <kelmo> any assistance i can give i will
[01:01] <siretart> in principle, we just need to call whereami with parameters indicating that we are going connected or disconnected
[01:01] <kelmo> yep
[01:01] <siretart> but we should also provide additional tests for that
[01:01] <siretart> currently whereami provides a test for kicking wpasupplicant using /etc/init.d/wpasupplicant :/
[01:01] <siretart> but I'll work on that
[01:01] <kelmo> ideally, this could all be done via wpa_cli though
[01:02] <siretart> I have a proof of concept test already here
[01:03] <kelmo> nice
[01:08] <siretart> ok, I'm out for lunch
[01:08] <siretart> cu  later
[02:17] <dehy> hi
[02:18] <dehy> i want to make a ubuntu package of pydza, a mario-like game in pyton made by friends (http://pydza.sourceforge.net), but i'm lost
[02:18] <dehy> i'm reading the maintener's guide from debian
[02:19] <dehy> it explain how to create a package from sources
[02:19] <dehy> but this game needs only python and pygame to work, none compilation needed
[02:21] <dehy> so my question is "how to make a simple package with dependencies to install files where i want ?"
[02:22] <slomo> dehy: look at other python packages for examples :) or data-only packages like mplayer-skins
[02:23] <dehy> okaayyy, i forgot this step ! thx !
[02:23] <dehy> :)
[02:34] <Yagisan> ajmitch: around ?
[02:35] <ajmitch> yes
[02:35] <Yagisan> ajmitch: I've started putting my pax and other sec patches on the web
[02:35] <ajmitch> ok
[02:36] <Yagisan> ajmitch: if you feel like being a guinea pig
[02:36] <Yagisan> ajmitch: they appear here http://eyagi.bpa.nu/eyagi/our-research/technologies/e-yagi-security-enhanced-linux/
[02:36] <ajmitch> against the latest git tree for dapper?
[02:36] <Yagisan> ajmitch: I started by patching binutils
[02:36] <ajmitch> security-enhanced-linux? :)
[02:37] <Yagisan> ajmitch: yep. just a research project
[02:37] <Yagisan> ajmitch: hows your SE linux work going ?
[02:38] <ajmitch> slow, on the shelf right now
[02:38] <ajmitch> more stuff is happening in debian
[02:38] <Yagisan> ajmitch: only confusing for a little while, SElinux is to be added later
[02:38] <Yagisan> ajmitch: I don't want to tackle to muc at once
[02:39] <Yagisan> s/muc/much
[02:42] <ajmitch> Yagisan: what do you think of apparmour? :)
[02:43] <Yagisan> ajmitch: it looks at first glance to do the same as grsec's rbac
[02:44] <Yagisan> ajmitch: I see it and rbac as the two "lightweight" acess systems
[02:45] <Yagisan> ajmitch: and SELinux and RSBAC as the "heavyweight" versions
[02:45] <Hobbsee> hi ajmitch and Yagisan
[02:45] <ajmitch> hey Hobbsee
[02:45] <Yagisan> G'day Hobbsee
[02:45] <ajmitch> how are you?
[02:45] <Hobbsee> better than yesterday...
[02:46] <Hobbsee> you know i had to go to work?
[02:46] <ajmitch> yeah..
[02:46] <ajmitch> how bad was it?
[02:46] <Yagisan> damm - that binutils patch may be dodgy
[02:46] <Hobbsee> mmm...yeah...well...i made it half way to work, then my car suddenly stopped, brakes wouldnt work, and it started rolling backwards when i hit the accelerator.
[02:46] <Hobbsee> fortunatley, the handbrake still did
[02:46] <ajmitch> Hobbsee: uh, that's not good.. :)
[02:47] <Hobbsee> had to be shoved (by some random, nice guys in the car behind) up into somone's driveway, call work, call car people, they came and looked at it, got it towed away
[02:47] <ajmitch> sounds expensive
[02:47] <Hobbsee> picked it up this morning, one of the sensors failed in the engine, meaning no ignition, and no fuel :P
[02:48] <Hobbsee> fortunately, no - it's a hyundai, so it's still under warranty.  and i'm part of the car thingo, (NRMA), so that was free!
[02:48] <ajmitch> did you manage to get to work in the end?
[02:49] <Hobbsee> oh yes, an hour late - wasnt that far to work, and dad stayed with the nrma, and the car
[02:49] <ajmitch> that's a relief
[02:49] <Hobbsee> yeah
[02:49] <Hobbsee> was lucky that it didnt happen a week later, when dad would be in the US
[02:50] <Hobbsee> how was work?  hmmm....oh yes, one of the guys was being a pain in the neck, cos i didnt want to stay back, and that i'd complained about him, to the manager.
[02:51] <Hobbsee> so he was being rotten, making jokes, etc - probably could have threatened to report him for harrassment, if i'd wanted to bother
[02:51] <ajmitch> I bet you were tempted :)
[02:51] <Hobbsee> hehe, yeah, but the main manager had gone home for the night.
[02:53] <ajmitch> sounds like you live a 'fun' life
[02:55] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: i'd prefer not to, thanks!
[02:55] <Hobbsee> :P
[02:56] <Hobbsee> hehe @ Yagisan - i'll remember that
[02:56] <ajmitch> Yagisan: or the missing 00list when using dpatch, and starting a 2 hour build
[02:56] <ajmitch> rather irritating, that
[02:59] <Yagisan> I know, I've done it already
[03:00] <Yagisan> I think people would be scared to test my patches - my C is as good as my swahili
[03:01] <Yagisan> and I don't speak swahili
[03:01] <ajmitch> heh
[03:05] <ajmitch> I should just work on an .au timezone or something
[03:06] <Yagisan> ajmitch: should this actually work - what are my chances that main will take the patch ? slim or none ?
[03:08] <ajmitch> Yagisan: for dapper?
[03:08] <ajmitch> just the binutils patch? you'd have to ask the toolchain guys (doko, jbailey)
[03:08] <Yagisan> ajmitch: dapper + 1
[03:08] <ajmitch> ah, dapper+1 is more likely
[03:09] <Yagisan> ajmitch: binutils patch will probally never be taken by upstream (redhat)
[03:10] <ajmitch> why is that?
[03:10] <Yagisan> ajmitch: they think their pt_gnu_stack is better, yet it is far less flexible. Why turn off all protection, when it is just one feature that breaks an app ?
[03:11] <Yagisan> ajmitch: I think they can coexist nicely, but I'm not a dev
[03:12] <ajmitch> might take a bit of discussion & even some spec work then :)
[03:17] <j^> i have prepared VPN packages for NetworkManager 0.6, since NM0.6 is supposed to enter main soon, it would be nice to have the vpn plugins in universe. http://bootlab.org/~j/NetworkManager/
[03:18] <j^> they depend on the new network-manager-dev packages that will hit main soon
[03:22] <Yagisan> ajmitch: no worries. I can always steal^W borrow gentoo's patches and update them to suit ubuntu.
[03:23] <ajmitch> ok
[03:24] <Yagisan> woohoo it built :)
[03:26] <slomo> j^: are they based on the ones in debian's pkg-utopia svn?
[03:30] <j^> slomo no, based on what i had for NM 0.5 and breezy
[03:31] <zakame> hi MOTUs
[03:32] <j^> slomo cant't find any vpn packages in  debian's pkg-utopia svn.
[03:33] <slomo> j^: oh right, sorry... they wanted to get them there when nm 0.6 is in unstable
[04:26] <bddebian> Heya gang
[04:30] <zakame> bddebian!
[04:30] <bddebian> Heya zakame!
[04:31] <zakame> =)
[04:32] <zakame> irvin!
[04:32] <irvin> hi zakame
[04:42] <zakame> anyone care to check malone 35196 before I proceed?
[04:42] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 35196 in eclipse libswt3.1-gtk-java "Rebuild against firefox" [Normal,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/35196
[04:44] <bddebian> zakame: Ah, go for it :-)
[04:45] <zakame> bddebian: I have a debdiff there
[04:46] <bddebian> Oh, hehe
[04:50] <zakame> would that bug require motu-uvf attention?
[04:51] <bddebian> If it's just a rebuild against a newer firefox, I don't believe so but I have been WAAY out of the loop :'-(
[04:52] <zakame> yeah, then again its just a rebuild, not a new upstream
[04:52] <G0SUB> zakame: you need to get permission from a core-dev in any case since firefox is in main
[04:52] <bddebian> Why, he's not touching firefox?
[04:53] <G0SUB> oh! my bad
[04:53] <slomo> zakame: feel free to get this uploaded... you don't need any special permissions by anybody for this kind of changes :)
[04:53] <slomo> zakame: hm, i'll get it uploaded unless someone else does it already
[04:54] <zakame> G0SUB: I just B-D on firefox-dev
[04:54] <G0SUB> zakame: got it ... I misread it
[04:55] <slomo> zakame: the diff there is the latest version? or do you want something else changed?
[04:55] <zakame> slomo: ok, will do, I'm just needing a li'l more push of confidence, since eclipse is such a big package
[04:55] <slomo> zakame: wtf... this is in eclipse... i thought it was the separate swt
[04:55] <slomo> zakame: better talk to doko then... i don't feel like touching eclipse :) he knows it better than me
[04:56] <zakame> slomo: it's the latest as of yesterday; I built it on tiber, then tried it here on my own home machine
[04:56] <zakame> slomo: yup wtf indeed :/ ok I'll look for doko
[04:57] <doko> ?
[04:58] <zakame> doko: I need your advice re: malone 35196
[04:58] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 35196 in eclipse libswt3.1-gtk-java "Rebuild against firefox" [Normal,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/35196
[04:58] <zakame> I've prepared the debdiff, and it builds successfully twice
[04:59] <doko> zakame: and eclipse does run with your patch?
[05:02] <zakame> doko: yup, so far no problems here afaict
[05:06] <zakame> doko: I don't use eclipse regularly however
[05:10] <doko> zakame: Please Check Help/Helpcontents, an try opening "The Workbench" in the Workbench user's guide
[05:12] <zakame> ok, will do later :D
[05:21] <jpatrick> Mithrandir: ping
[07:14] <phanatic> hi people
[07:15] <Erlang> lo
[07:19] <zakame> hi phanatic lucas Tonio_
[07:20] <phanatic> hey zakame
[07:21] <Tonio_> heya zakame
[07:40] <elvirolo> hi all
[07:41] <elvirolo> currently, libtunepimp is not compiled with mp3 support
[07:41] <LaserJock> hi elvirolo
[07:41] <elvirolo> could you MOTU's could make one with mp3 support enabled and upload it to universe?
[07:42] <LaserJock> I'm not sure we can
[07:42] <LaserJock> but I'm not really up on the MP3 stuff
[07:42] <elvirolo> ok thanks
[07:42] <ogra> something in main needs libtunepimp
[07:43] <ogra> no way that mp3 support gets in there
[07:43] <LaserJock> ogra: but is it possible to have a separate package in say multiverse or something?
[07:43] <ogra> you could spli out a universe package though
[07:44] <ogra> but thats a lot of work and duplication...
[07:45] <elvirolo> here ( https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/libtunepimp/+bug/21923 ), a developper says he will do that
[07:45] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 21923 in libtunepimp libtunepimp2c2 "tag search in musicbrainz/libtunepimp2c2 does not work on mp3" [Normal,Confirmed] 
[07:45] <Tm_T> that's because libtunepimp is compiled without mp3support
[07:46] <elvirolo> yeah i know
[07:46] <elvirolo> ;)
[07:46] <Tm_T> ach, tired
[07:47] <zakame> because there are no mp3 libs in main
[07:49] <slomo> oh i said that i wanted to do it... damn, i simply forgot about that issue and now it's too late for dapper :(
[07:50] <elvirolo> is it ? never mind
[07:50] <elvirolo> can't it be put into the updates?
[07:52] <slomo> elvirolo: nope... -updates is only for updates, not new packages
[07:52] <elvirolo> ok
[07:52] <elvirolo> how do other distro's deal with the mp3 stuff ?
[07:52] <elvirolo> i think in works in debian, doesn't it ?
[07:53] <elvirolo> one should set up a third-party repo to store a modified version of libtunepimp
[07:53] <ogra> why not just fix the isuue ?
[07:53] <ogra> *issue
[07:54] <ogra> slomo, its a bug, i guess there is still time to split the package and add a universe component ... its just a bit ugly
[07:54] <slomo> ogra: hmm. would it need approval by anybody to put a modified tunepimp in universe?
[07:54] <slomo> ogra: no splitting... just the same package with a new build-depends and conflicts/replaces/provides
[07:54] <slomo> iirc at least
[07:55] <ogra> probably, but since its only a recompile of a main lib, it wont be an issue
[07:55] <slomo> ogra: why do you think it's a recompile of a lib in main?
[07:55] <ogra> yes, thats what i thought of as well
[07:55] <elvirolo> it -is- an annoying problem (and i still haven't found the workaround)
[07:55] <ogra> libtunepimp is in main
[07:56] <slomo> ogra: i don't need to touch libtunepimp iirc... only make a new libtunepimp-mp3 in universe unless i miss something... but let me take a look at it again before i say something else ;)
[07:56] <ogra> so you need a libtunepimp-universe or libtunepimp-mp3 or something with appropriate Conflicts/Replaces
[07:57] <zakame> that could get messy
[07:57] <ogra> i think we both mean the same just talking different languages :)
[07:57] <ogra> zakame, why ?
[07:57] <slomo> ogra: possible :)
[07:58] <ogra> it provides libtunepimp and replaces the one in main if you install it ...
[07:58] <ogra> its just tricky to set up ...
[07:58] <zakame> hm, but then again, if the package is done correctly, maybe...
[07:59] <slomo> zakame: you mean the package in main?
[07:59] <zakame> bah, don't mind me, I'm triaging :P
[08:00] <zakame> slomo: yup... anyhow this will all come from just one source package, with just different build options, right?
[08:00] <slomo> zakame: yes... and different build-depends which is the problem
[08:00] <zakame> true true
[08:01] <zakame> unless one does some control.in black magic... gaah
[08:01] <slomo> zakame: nope that won't help... you still need libmad0-dev
[08:02] <zakame> gaah... yeah... at any rate its tricky unless a new source pkg is introduced
[08:03] <zakame> anyhow I'm long past my date... gn8 all! :D
[08:03] <bddebian> Later zakame
[08:03] <zakame> sure thing bddebian =)
[08:03] <elvirolo> bye!
[08:03] <zakame> bye elvirolo
[08:04] <elvirolo> so
[08:04] <elvirolo> could you help me to recompile it myself ?
[08:04] <Tonio_> I just noticed beagled doesn't autostart
[08:05] <Tonio_> is that normal ? sounds strange for a daemon......
[08:07] <slomo> elvirolo: yes... but you could as well wait until i've finished it now :) do you want to be my tester before i upload? ;)
[08:07] <Tonio_> it apears that's just for kde
[08:07] <elvirolo> certainly :-D
[08:07] <slomo> Tonio_: i guess kde doesn't support the .desktop autostart foo yet...
[08:08] <Tonio_> slomo: yes, but that can be done in /usr/share/autostart ;) I'm gonna work on that
[08:08] <slomo> Tonio_: the standard is /etc/xdg/autostart
[08:09] <ogra> Tonio_, doesnt kde use the xdg autostart folder ?
[08:09] <slomo> Tonio_: and there is the autostart file... maybe it just needs a link to the kde directory
[08:09] <ogra>  /etc/xdg/autostart/ rather :)
[08:09] <ogra> (at least thats what the spec defines)
[08:09] <Yagisan> spacey: ping
[08:10] <Tonio_> ogra: kde doesn't manage this apparently
[08:11] <ogra> Tonio_, hmm, it should ...
[08:12] <ogra> but thats probably next release :)
[08:12] <Tonio_> ogra: yep, but it is confirmed that it doesn't ;)
[08:27] <slomo> elvirolo: there you go... please test: http://slomosnail.de/~slomo/temp/libtunepimp-mad-2c2a_0.3.0-9.1ubuntu3_i386.deb :)
[08:27] <elvirolo> slomo: great :)
[08:27] <elvirolo> i'll try it out right now
[08:32] <spacey> Yagisan: pong
[08:32] <slomo> elvirolo: just ping me when it works or fails or whatever ;)
[08:45] <elvirolo> slomo: yup, it works :) the only problem is that it conflicts with libtunepimp2c2a (but that's normal, in fact)
[08:46] <slomo> elvirolo: but it should conflict nicely with it... i.e. it just replaces the package
[08:46] <slomo> elvirolo: ok, thanks for your time :)
[08:46] <elvirolo> slomo: ah, i'm afraid it doesn't here
[08:46] <slomo> elvirolo: why?
[08:46] <elvirolo> slomo: I should thank you for having solved the problem so quickly
[08:47] <elvirolo> wait a sec
[08:47] <slomo> elvirolo: almost half a year after telling that i do it, yes ;) but why do you think it doesn't replace it nicely? seems to work fine here
[08:51] <elvirolo> ok
[08:51] <elvirolo> slomo: i have libtunepimp2c2a right now
[08:52] <elvirolo> slomo: and when I try doing the following sudo dpkg -i libtunepimp-mad-2c2a_0.3.0-9.1ubuntu3_i386.deb
[08:52] <elvirolo> slomo: dpkg tells me that libtunepimp-mad-2c2a conflicts with libtunepimp2c2a
[08:53] <elvirolo> and thus cannot be installed
[08:53] <slomo> but it installs it?
[08:53] <slomo> i.e. it tells you that it conflicts etc but that this will be ignored because of blabla?
[08:54] <elvirolo> no
[08:54] <elvirolo> it doesn't install it
[08:54] <elvirolo> brb
[08:54] <elvirolo> sorry
[08:56] <slomo> elvirolo: oh i see the problem...
[09:01] <elvirolo> slomo: ok what is it ?
[09:02] <slomo> elvirolo: dpkg beeing unable to handle versioned provides... so nothing we could fix now :(
[09:02] <elvirolo> slomo: ah i see
[09:02] <elvirolo> why does it work on your box then ?
[09:03] <slomo> elvirolo: because i didn't have anything installed that needed libtunepimp
[09:04] <slomo> elvirolo: after installing something it breaks
[09:04] <elvirolo> ah ok
[09:05] <slomo> sorry... so that won't get done for dapper unfortunately unless someone has a brilliant idea :(
[09:30] <elvirolo> slomo: at least, you could store your package somewhere, and make it availible to everyone
[09:32] <slomo> elvirolo: that won't help anybody as apt-get will remove that package again on updates ;)
[09:32] <elvirolo> true
[09:33] <slomo> elvirolo: but you could compile the original libtunepimp (with the same package names) with libmad0-dev
[09:33] <slomo> and provide that somewhere
[09:33] <elvirolo> yeah
[09:33] <elvirolo> i don't know hpw to do it though
[10:03] <looksaus> hi!
[10:03] <LaserJock> hi
[10:03] <looksaus> I'm trying to get simplebackup
[10:03] <looksaus> to work using passwordless ssh auth
[10:03] <looksaus> (universe package: sbackup)
[10:03] <looksaus> no problem from nautilus and from an xterm
[10:04] <looksaus> passwordless ssh works just fine there
[10:04] <looksaus> but for some reason, it refuses to in simplebackup
[10:05] <crimsun> ECHANNEL
[10:05] <looksaus> crimsun, where should I go then?
[10:05] <ajmitch> morning
[10:05] <crimsun> looksaus: #ubuntu
[10:05] <crimsun> 'morning LaserJock, ajmitch
[10:05] <looksaus> oh, sorry
[10:06] <looksaus> crimsun, might have been a bit cryptic for a less experienced user though...
[10:06] <looksaus> thx for you great work anyway and bye
[10:07] <Tonio_> slomo: ping ?
[10:08] <slomo> Tonio_: pong
[10:09] <Tonio_> slomo: I noticed you maintain beagle package
[10:09] <Tonio_> slomo: we're currently testing several kde frontend, but we have an issue.......
[10:09] <slomo> Tonio_: normally that's tseng's package ;) why?
[10:09] <slomo> Tonio_: hmm, tell me about them
[10:09] <crimsun> LaserJock: north carolina a&t state univ
[10:09] <Tonio_> slomo: we would need an /usr/share/autostart desktop file for kde.....
[10:09] <crimsun> LaserJock: (migrated for ETOPIC)
[10:10] <Tonio_> actually we have to provide a desktop file per package, which results conflicts......
[10:10] <slomo> Tonio_: could it be a copy of the one in /etc/xdg/autostart?
[10:10] <LaserJock> crimsun: ah, what department? CS?
[10:10] <slomo> Tonio_: why conflicts?
[10:10] <crimsun> LaserJock: yeah
[10:10] <Tonio_> slomo: because dpkg doesn't like when a file is replaced by another one ;)
[10:10] <Tonio_> slomo: and we don't want 2 or 3 entries in autostart folder :)
[10:11] <Tonio_> we focus on 2 tools, kerry and kio-beagle
[10:11] <Tonio_> so the only good solution would be, yes, a copy of the xdg/autostart one
[10:11] <slomo> Tonio_: but why would it give conflicts there? this file gets into the beagle package and we're done... or do i miss something?
[10:11] <Tonio_> slomo: no need for it to show in kmenu, as long as it autostarts :)
[10:12] <Tonio_> slomo: if in the beagle package,, no pb, but if we provide it with kerry package *and* kio-beagle, that's not nice :)
[10:12] <Tonio_> this is the way we did for the moment, but that's crappy
[10:12] <Tonio_> that's why I'm asking for the file to be installed by beagle package directly :)
[10:13] <slomo> Tonio_: sure, i'll add it, np :)
[10:13] <Tonio_> slomo: thanks very much ;)
[10:13] <Tonio_> slomo: and better no change for it, we don't want it in the kmenu :)
[10:15] <Tonio_> slomo: and in my dreams, I've seen a splitted package, giving the possibility to install beagled without libgtk depandancy :)
[10:15] <Tonio_> slomo: hehe
[10:15] <slomo> Tonio_: will come later maybe... but you need to live at least with glib ;)
[10:15] <Tonio_> slomo: that will not kill us :)
[10:16] <Tonio_> siretart: ping ?
[10:16] <Tonio_> or ajmitch maybe ?
[10:16] <slomo> Tonio_: i'll upload it in some minutes... when you have any other problems feel free to tell me :)
[10:16] <Tonio_> I need package nuking on revu....
[10:16] <Tonio_> slomo: fantastic :)
[10:16] <Tonio_> slomo: thanks very much :)
[10:21] <Tonio_> slomo: are you revu admin ?
[10:21] <slomo> Tonio_: what do you want nuked?
[10:21] <Tonio_> slomo: kmplayer
[10:21] <slomo> why?
[10:21] <Tonio_> slomo: I had to rebuild tarball for some reason, but the new one is rejected for some reason
[10:22] <Tonio_> and it keeps old one with crappy debian/ entry in it
[10:22] <Tonio_> and because the package is intended to eventually go in main, we need a clean tarball :)
[10:23] <slomo> Tonio_: hm, i better don't touch it then... seems to be a bigger problem... better talk to siretart or sistpoty
[10:23] <Tonio_> slomo: why not simply nuking and let me upload new source package ? :)
[10:23] <Tonio_> slomo: is that a problem ?
[10:24] <slomo> Tonio_: i don't want to break something :) do you get the new tarballs REJECTED or does it fail uploading?
[10:25] <Tonio_> it is uploaded, but apparently revu rejects it, because the orig version is the same than the crappy one on revu
[10:25] <Tonio_> I did three uploads, unsuccessfully
[10:26] <ajmitch> hello bddebian
[10:26] <bddebian> Heya ajmitch
[10:26] <slomo> Tonio_: /usr/share/autostart?
[10:26] <Tonio_> slomo: plz :)
[10:32] <slomo> Tonio_: btw, when you want the gtk stuff splitted off talk to the debian maintainer please
[10:37] <Tonio_> slomo: I will :)
[10:37] <slomo> btw, beagle uploaded
[10:37] <slomo> tell me when this isn't what you wanted ;)
[10:37] <Tonio_> slomo: I think it is not important as long as we don't had beagle stuff to default kubuntu installation........ only universe for the moment so that's okay
[10:38] <Tonio_> slomo: no pb, that will be okay for sure :)
[10:59] <wBryce_> ogra: Hello. Are you still the maintainer of Squeak in Ubuntu?
[11:16] <LaserJock> wBryce_: nobody is really the maintainer for anything in Universe. everything is team maintained by the MOTU
[11:22] <VoX> how/where do i update the md5 checksums for dapper package sources?
[11:23] <wBryce_> Is there still time to get bugs fixed for Dapper?
[11:23] <LaserJock> VoX: the md5sums for source packages?
[11:23] <LaserJock> wBryce_: certainly, that is what we are focusing on
[11:23] <VoX> Failed to fetch http://au.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/dapper/main/source/Sou rces.gz  MD5Sum mismatch
[11:24] <wBryce_> There's about 6 bugs on the squeak packages.
[11:25] <LaserJock> wBryce_: and have the been confirmed or worked on?
[11:25] <Erlang> VoX: Everytime that error has happened to me it went away after a little while.
[11:25] <LaserJock> VoX: yeah, I think that is perhaps a mirroring problem
[11:27] <wBryce_> LaserJock: Some have been confirmed.
[11:28] <wBryce_> How do we get them fixed?
[11:28] <LaserJock> patches and good debugging info always help
[11:29] <LaserJock> figuring out if Debian or the authors have similar bug reports/fixes also helps
[11:30] <wBryce_> The major bug is a critical package is missing.
[11:30] <wBryce_> Squeak's not in Debian.
[11:30] <LaserJock> hmm, that is a problem. what is the bug number?
[11:30] <LaserJock> somebody was here the other day asking about squeak
[11:30] <wBryce_> I'm a Squeak developer. Running Breezy though.
[11:31] <wBryce_> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/squeak-vm/+bug/34530
[11:31] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 34530 in squeak-vm "squeak-image missing?" [Normal,Unconfirmed] 
[11:32] <lifeless> bug 34530
[11:32] <lifeless> there
[11:32] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 34530 in squeak-vm "squeak-image missing?" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/34530
[11:32] <LaserJock> hmm, that does seem like a problem ;-)
[11:33] <wBryce_> LaserJock: How is it not a problem? The image contains the the system.
[11:34] <VoX> mmuh
[11:34] <LaserJock> wBryce_: I said  "does" not "doesn't"
[11:34] <wBryce_> LaserJock: Sorry, my mistake.
[11:37] <wBryce_> What do we need to do to get the bugs fixed? Or marked as confirmed if that's required?
[11:37] <LaserJock> wBryce_: ok, so the package is useless without the squeak-image package, right?
[11:38] <wBryce_> LaserJock: Yes. It's useless without an image.
[11:39] <LaserJock> ok, I'll confirm it and assign it to MOTU
[11:39] <wBryce_> LaserJock: Thanks.
[11:39] <wBryce_> Squeak people hang out on
[11:39] <wBryce_> #squeak
[11:39] <wBryce_> It might be worthwhile adding that so the MOTU can find us.
[11:40] <LaserJock> yeah, I think the package might need some work. I don't know if ogra is up now but he should see the bug email
[11:41] <LaserJock> wBryce_: thanks for the info
[11:41] <Riddell> do we know Yuriy Kozlov?
[11:42] <LaserJock> Riddell: I don't but I might recognize an irc nick
[11:46] <wBryce_> Bug 36805
[11:46] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 36805 in squeak-vm "Link in menu is useless" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/36805
[11:47] <wBryce_> is also important.
[11:47] <wBryce_> Then people could install it and start it with the menu item.
[11:47] <wBryce_> The menu item is created.
[11:51] <LaserJock> wBryce_: do you know much about the LinEX packages for squeak?
[11:51] <wBryce_> LaserJock: No, Is that the Extramerda (sorry about the spelling) distro from Spain?
[11:54] <wBryce_> That's mostly Diago Gomaz Deck's work.