[12:32] <bob_> anyone got any idea why gnome wont load on the server computer? all the clients work fine...
[12:35] <Sergi0> what did u try to start it up?
[12:47] <bob_> just startx
[12:48] <bob_> the server stopped booting into gnome a while ago anyway, its a bit odd
[12:48] <bob_> it always usde to work...
[12:49] <Sergi0> bob_: what error u get 
[12:51] <bob_> nothing, it just freezes with a flashing cursor in the topleft
[12:51] <Sergi0> hmm
[12:52] <bob_> im not sure why it doesnt boot into GDM any more either
[12:52] <Sergi0> try restarting gdm, wat happens then
[12:52] <bob_> it wont load gdm i mean
[12:52] <bob_> it doesnt get that far
[12:52] <Sergi0> check /var/log/Xlo--
[12:53] <bob_> the latest one?
[12:53] <Sergi0> hmm probaly Xlog0.log
[12:53] <bob_> k
[12:54] <bob_> am i looking for anything in particular?
[12:54] <bob_> looks alright really...
[12:54] <bob_> no obvious errors
[12:54] <Sergi0> hmm
[12:58] <Sergi0> im not sure where the probem could occure
[12:58] <bob_> it is pretty odd...
[12:58] <Sergi0> try this for testing X:
[12:59] <Sergi0> type 'X :1.0' or just 'X', kill the X with crtl-alt-backspace, so u can test the basic X, without any other software running on it
[01:01] <Sergi0> any luck?
[01:01] <bob_> fatal server error: unrecognised option 1:0
[01:01] <bob_> oh i missed a colon, sorry
[01:01] <Sergi0> did't u forget the :   X :1.0 :)
[01:02] <Sergi0> also try 'X'
[01:02] <bob_> nope, same proble with both
[01:02] <bob_> just a black screen with a cursor
[01:03] <Sergi0> thats weird
[01:03] <bob_> yeah youd think itd whine about something...
[01:03] <Sergi0> nah, probaly not
[01:03] <bob_> ok :p it normally quits with some weird error code
[01:04] <Sergi0> there is never a weird error code
[01:04] <Sergi0> !
[01:05] <bob_> i mean it sometimes says "such and such is not supported?" or something
[01:05] <Sergi0> :) its ok
[01:06] <Sergi0> whats ur graphic card
[01:06] <bob_> not sure
[01:06] <bob_> ang on
[01:07] <bob_> ati 3d rage 2+
[01:07] <bob_> i mean its worked before...
[01:07] <bob_> some random dapper update i think messed it up
[01:07] <Sergi0> did u upgrade to another kernel?
[01:07] <bob_> possibly, yeah
[01:07] <Sergi0> with nvidia for example u need to configure ur graphic driver for that kernel
[01:08] <Sergi0> change ur xorg.conf file
[01:08] <Sergi0> or reboot with the old kernel, if u still got it
[01:09] <bob_> how do i do either of those things?
[01:10] <Sergi0> how did u setup ur ati drivers before?
[01:11] <bob_> hmm i dont think i did. i mean it was just a disk install i might have dpkg-reconfigured xserver-xorg at some point but
[01:11] <bob_> its probabyl a kernel thing
[01:13] <Sergi0> u could reconfi ut xserver-xorg package again, but probaly u will have bad graphics, but for server its ok i guess
[01:14] <bob_> i did it earlier
[01:14] <bob_> doesnt wrk
[01:14] <bob_> :(
[01:15] <Sergi0> it should
[01:15] <bob_> ypu just does the same thing
[01:16] <Sergi0> vim /etc/X11/xorg.conf  under "device" check the "Driver" string, change it to something like this "Driver" "vesa"
[01:16] <Sergi0> is the monitor changed btw? could be a problem too
[01:17] <Sergi0> but i have to go, good luck
[01:17] <bob_> nope
[01:17] <bob_> ok, thanks :)
[01:17] <bob_> have a good day
[01:21] <bimberi> bob_: if the vesa driver doesn't work, try deleting ~/.Xauthority and ~/.ICEauthority (issues with those files can hause X hangs)
[01:28] <bimberi> *cause
[02:24] <bob_> hey bimberi, doesnt work :(
[02:25] <bob_> what is vesa? i put it back to ATI
[02:26] <bob_> argh, ive been on the internet too long, my brain is leaking, try again tomorrow...
[02:26] <Sergi0> good luck bob_
[02:30] <thedarkener> Hey all
[02:30] <Sergi0> hello
[02:31] <thedarkener> What do you guys think about hosting a 10-client LAN with Edubuntu on a dual PIII 500MHz (1GHz total), 2GB RAM? Will it be comfortable?
[02:31] <thedarkener> Regular IDE hard disk
[02:31] <thedarkener> 1GB LAN for server, 100MBit on workstations
[02:33] <Sergi0> i didnt try edubuntu for network config, but i think it should be no problem, looks all fine
[02:33] <thedarkener> awesome
[02:33] <thedarkener> =)
[02:33] <thedarkener> I will, hopefully by next weekend, start working on my first edubuntu thin client site =)
[02:34] <Sergi0> just make sure for ur processor u use the correct kernel
[02:34] <thedarkener> that'll be on the cd boot commandline to choose the kernel?
[02:34] <Sergi0> nice, im just trying the stuff out. maybe a school project orso, 
[02:34] <Sergi0> nah, just pick one after the install, then when its real important
[02:34] <Sergi0> om out, good luck
[02:35] <thedarkener> ok thanks Sergi0 
[02:35] <Sergi0> ok
[02:35] <thedarkener> Anyone else? How does this hardware look for all 10 clients logged in with Firefox, OO?
[08:21] <iGotNoTime> HedgeMage are you in by chance? I am having some problems and as a last resort came in to ask for help after like 3 hours. :(
[08:22] <iGotNoTime> I just got a new motherboard so I thought a reinstall would be best....
[08:22] <iGotNoTime> I installed and some packages couldn't be loaded during install for some odd reason...
[08:22] <iGotNoTime> luckily though I do have gnome and a GUI
[08:23] <iGotNoTime> however Python libraries are messed up
[08:23] <iGotNoTime> Synaptic will not work
[08:23] <iGotNoTime> niether will the Gnome file browser so I can't easily navigate to find files
[08:23] <iGotNoTime> I had a warning about E:/ being broken
[08:24] <HedgeMage> iGotNoTime: I am now
[08:24] <iGotNoTime> but the dpkg --confgure blah blah wouldn't work
[08:24] <HedgeMage> what's up?
[08:24] <iGotNoTime> no problem getting a drink while you ponder :)
[08:24] <HedgeMage> hmm that is really odd
[08:25] <iGotNoTime> the worst thing is the synaptic
[08:25] <iGotNoTime> I had to connect to IRC with Gaim because I can't even install an IRC client
[08:26] <iGotNoTime> I don't even have an FTP client to upload you the copied lines of errors LOL
[08:26] <HedgeMage> :(
[08:26] <iGotNoTime> major thing though seems to say broken packages
[08:26] <iGotNoTime> I can't find any sort of auto update option
[08:26] <HedgeMage> nothing borked until the hardware change?
[08:27] <iGotNoTime> yes but was a big hardware change, so I formatted and started fresh
[08:27] <iGotNoTime> I am happy that the GUI is on or I would really be stuck
[08:28] <iGotNoTime> E: dpkg was interrupted, you must manually run 'dpkg --configure -a' to correct the problem.
[08:28] <iGotNoTime> that is a very popular one with me today
[08:29] <iGotNoTime> but when I try to do that I get this:
[08:29] <iGotNoTime> dpkg: ../../src/packages.c:191: process_queue: Assertion `dependtry <= 4' failed.
[08:29] <iGotNoTime> Aborted
[08:29] <iGotNoTime> I assume if that dpkg --configure would work everything would be fixed on it's own
[08:29] <iGotNoTime> but can't do it due to the above error
[08:34] <iGotNoTime> any ideas? anyone?
[08:47] <iGotNoTime> I'll just try getting help later on tonight :)
[08:47] <iGotNoTime> I am gonna reboot
[10:23] <JaneW> spacey: ping
[10:23] <JaneW> oops he's not even here, nm
[11:53] <highvoltage> ogra: i love the new edubuntu splash screen!
[11:54] <ogra> thanks, i personally find it a bit dark ...
[11:54] <ogra> note that we might get a different one from the art studio ... might not be final
[11:58] <highvoltage> well, it splashed by very quickly, so i didn't notice it being to dark.
[05:35] <ogra> in case anyone is intrested in testing, the next CD build should be ready for flight 6 testing ...
[07:17] <bob_> hey, my edubuntu server is playing up, X wont load. how can i backtrack a kernel?
[07:18] <highvoltage> bob_: do you have any reason to believe that it's a kernel problem?
[07:18] <bob_> hmm well im sure it stopped working after a dist-upgrade
[07:19] <highvoltage> if you log in from a console, and type 'startx', what error message do you get?
[07:19] <bob_> you dont get an error
[07:19] <bob_> it just hangs with a black screen and a cursor in the top left
[07:19] <highvoltage> it's possible that the dist-upgrade didn't complete
[07:19] <bob_> yeah? ooh
[07:19] <highvoltage> hmmm :/
[07:19] <bob_> the clients work fine, its weird...
[07:19] <highvoltage> i haven't seen that before
[07:20] <highvoltage> the clients have their own chroot
[07:20] <bob_> oh yeah
[07:20] <bob_> any ideas then? how can i fix a broken dist-upgrade?
[07:20] <highvoltage> log in on one of the thin clients, it at least gives you access to your system
[07:20] <highvoltage> log in as your admin user from one of the clients, 
[07:20] <highvoltage> and try sudo apt-get dist-upgrade again
[07:20] <bob_> yeah theres people on them :) but ill try and kick someone off
[07:21] <highvoltage> see what it says
[07:21] <highvoltage> heh :)
[07:21] <bob_> ill just do it form a terminal?
[07:22] <bob_> it wants to install 'libbeagle1' and upgrade nautlus
[07:22] <bob_> shall i do it?
[07:23] <highvoltage> i suggest you try that
[07:24] <ogra> hmm, what has libbeagle to do there  ?
[07:24] <bob_> seems to have run ok, no errors or anything
[07:24] <bob_> i dont know, what is it?
[07:25] <ogra> its a library for beagle ...
[07:25] <ogra> (beagle is a desktop search engine)
[07:25] <bob_> oh hang on, ive got one x error: "Key <META> added to map for multiple modifiers. Using Mod4 ignoring Mod 1"
[07:25] <bob_> ahh ok
[07:25] <highvoltage> ogra: wow, i would've never guesed :P
[07:25] <ogra> heh
[07:25] <bob_> maybe someone else put it on?
[07:25] <highvoltage> i just tried apt-cache show libbeagle, doesn't find such a package on my system.
[07:25] <ogra> its a universe package
[07:26] <ogra> apt-cache show libbeagle0
[07:26] <ogra> ;)
[07:26] <highvoltage> W: Unable to locate package libbeagle0
[07:27] <ogra> ogra@edubuntu:/mnt/devel/packages/ttf-ubuntu-title-0.1$ apt-cache show libbeagle0
[07:27] <ogra> Package: libbeagle0
[07:27] <ogra> Priority: optional
[07:27] <ogra> Section: universe/gnome
[07:27] <ogra> ...
[07:27] <highvoltage> oh, hold on, that's strange, my universe is disabled in sources.list.
[07:27] <bob_> shall i take it off?
[07:27] <ogra> bob_, is that breezy or dapper  
[07:27] <ogra> ?
[07:27] <bob_> dapper
[07:27] <ogra> ah, k
[07:27] <bob_> sorry should have been more specific
[07:27] <ogra> you have to live with breakage from time to time then :) especially with universe packages
[07:28] <ogra> time will fix it :)
[07:28] <bob_> do you think its that thats breaking it then?
[07:28] <ogra> err ...
[07:28] <ogra> moment 
[07:28] <bob_> haha dont worry i have faith in that :p id just be nice to know whats wrong so i can report it or something...
[07:28] <ogra> it wants to install libbeagle*1* ???
[07:28] <bob_> incidentally, it stopped logging into GDM by defualt a little while ago
[07:28] <ogra> sure that wasnt libbeagle0 ?
[07:29] <bob_> if thats related...
[07:29] <bob_> libbeagle0 is there
 it wants to install 'libbeagle1' and upgrade nautlus
[07:29] <ogra> are you sure about the name ? 
[07:29] <ogra> then its something from a third party repository ...
[07:30] <ogra> and nothing we can help with ...
[07:30] <bob_> ummm
[07:30] <bob_> doh ive done it in a terminal so i cant double check, it was probably right...
[07:31] <bob_> i mean, do you think its that thats breaking it? i dont see how its related to X not working...
[07:31] <ogra> dpkg -l |grep libbeagle 
[07:31] <highvoltage> bob_: cat /etc/apt/sources.list
[07:31] <highvoltage> bob_: check for something that doesn't contain 'ubuntu.com' in the URI
[07:31] <highvoltage> or what ogra said :)
[07:31] <ogra> bob_, if you have a broken package that holds back other essential packages from being upgraded, that not unusual
[07:32] <ogra> *thats
[07:32] <bob_> ok only libbeagle0 is there
[07:32] <ogra> good
[07:32] <ogra> so did you do apt-get upgrade or apt-get dist-upgrade ? 
[07:32] <bob_> both
[07:33] <ogra> why both ? 
[07:33] <bob_> highvoltage, theres a few in there, shall i comment them all out? i think its been automatix-ed
[07:33] <bob_> well i dist-upgraded to see if it would fix the x problem, highvoltage suggested it :p
[07:33] <ogra> dist-upgrade already does what upgrade does, but does the evil stuff as well ...
[07:33] <bob_> oh i mean
[07:33] <bob_> ive not done it right now, but ive run it today, like
[07:33] <ogra> upgrade == only install upgradeable packages, dont change anything else ...
[07:34] <ogra> dist-upgrade == remove packages if needed, chane essential bits etc
[07:34] <ogra> *change
[07:34] <bob_> yeah i gettit :) i just mean ive run them both today
[07:35] <ogra> ok, if you run startx from a console, does gnome start ?
[07:35] <bob_> nope
[07:35] <ogra> whats the error then ? 
[07:35] <bob_> just get a black screen with a frozen cursor
[07:35] <ogra> startx should give very precise errors
[07:35] <bob_> as in, text cursor not X cursor
[07:35] <bob_> it doesnt tell you anything apart from...
[07:35] <ogra> either on the commandline or in the logfiles
[07:36] <bob_> "key <META> added to map for multiple modifiers
[07:36] <bob_> using mod 4, inoring mod 1"
[07:36] <bob_> thats the only error, and X doesnt quit out or anything, it just hangs
[07:36] <LaserJock> ogra: do you know much about squeak?
[07:36] <ogra> thats niot your issue
[07:37] <ogra> LaserJock, only that i missed to package the squeak-image package for us
[07:37] <highvoltage> bob_: you've used automatix?
[07:37] <LaserJock> ogra: ah ok, I was talking quite a bit with some squeak developers about the image issue
[07:37] <bob_> when we were on breezy, yeah
[07:37] <ogra> (but adding the initimage.sh script to squeak-sources should solve it as well)
[07:38] <ogra> bob_, ouch
[07:38] <ogra> have fun reinstalling then
[07:38] <bob_> bit of a mess?
[07:38] <bob_> hahaha
[07:38] <bob_> ive got a number of niggles, maybe a reinstall would sort them...
[07:38] <ogra> automatix f****up isnt easily solvable
[07:39] <highvoltage> bob_: automatix alters your ubuntu system, it's not a standard ubuntu system any more, so upgrades isn't expected to work
[07:39] <ogra> use easyubuntu instead ... it wont break the system
[07:39] <bob_> ahhhh ok
[07:39] <bob_> ill bear it in mind. probably a good idea to avoid universe in general when using beta software, hey?
[07:39] <ogra> universe is fine ...
[07:39] <ogra> just expect breakage from time to time 
[07:39] <bob_> hmm ok.
[07:40] <bob_> but you reckon the X problem is coz of automatix?
[07:40] <ogra> usually universe packages dont have any influence on the system stability itself ...
[07:40] <highvoltage> bob_: main will, at some time, also give some breakage on development versions...
[07:40] <ogra> might be ... i refuse to put time into automatix broken systems
[07:40] <bob_> yeah thats cool, i wouldnt mention this if it hadnt been like it for a week or so
[07:40] <bob_> fair enough :)
[07:40] <highvoltage> bob_: but both main and universe are always much safer to use than automatix. automatix is strongly non-recommended.
[07:41] <ogra> this guy caused enough trouble ... i wont put time into his crappy scripts 
[07:41] <bob_> ok, cool. but easyubuntu gets the thumbs up?
[07:41] <ogra> yep
[07:41] <bob_> ace
[07:41] <ogra> its developed in a safe manner using the right tools ...
[07:41] <bob_> looks like its time to sort out that home drive and reinstall the system...
[07:41] <ogra> automatix just blindly overwrites half of the worls
[07:41] <ogra> *world
[07:42] <LaserJock> ogra: were you going to work on squeak-image? I think I could make a source package soon if you like.
[07:42] <bob_> shall i use a flight 5 iso?
[07:42] <ogra> LaserJock, that'd be so cool !
[07:43] <ogra> i'm preparing flight 6 and am particulary busy this week
[07:43] <LaserJock> ogra: k
[07:43] <bob_> is flight 5 the reccomended atm?
[07:43] <LaserJock> well, I went over to #squeak and found out what I needed and there are some source packages floating out there that I can look at.
[07:44] <highvoltage> bob_: i played around with flight5 quite a bit, worked fine fore me. ymmv.
[07:44] <ogra> bob_, yesd
[07:45] <ogra> but flight 6 is due this week :)
[07:45] <bob_> cool :)
[07:45] <bob_> dapper is lovely btw, evreything is working fineeee and lovely (apart from recentness)
[07:46] <highvoltage> bob_: that doesn't count, it's automatix's fault :)
[07:46] <highvoltage> ogra: you should blog something along the lines of 'top 5 reasons why you shouldn't use automatix' :)
[07:47] <bob_> ill let you know if thats what it was when i get this harddrive sorted ;)
[07:48] <ogra> highvoltage, ask Seveas to do that :)
[07:48] <highvoltage> ogra: k :)
[07:48] <Seveas> ogra, I don't blog in english
[07:48] <highvoltage> Seveas: ^^^^^
[07:48] <ogra> i have my private argument going on with arnieboy on the ubuntu-users ML already
[07:48] <Seveas> so I'm not on planet Ubuntu
[07:48] <ogra> and i dont want to extend it 
[07:49] <ogra> Seveas, so start blogging in english then :)
[07:49] <highvoltage> tectonic, slashdot, and many other sites promote how wonderful automatix is, it's an epidemic
[07:49] <ogra> at least the five entrys i made in my blg ;)
[07:49] <Seveas> highvoltage, it's a virus
[07:49] <ogra> *blog
[07:49] <highvoltage> every single day i meet someone who used it and it breaked their system
[07:50] <highvoltage> and there seems to be no ubuntu doc i can point them to too tell them it's bad
[07:50] <highvoltage> Seveas: hehe, yeah.
[07:50] <ogra> Seveas, note that i'll fight for closing down the forums gateway again ...
[07:50] <ogra> we dont even have a chance to unsubscribe arnieboy at the moment
[07:50] <Seveas> yes, please
[07:51] <Seveas> the forums are full of crap
[07:51] <highvoltage> forums are breeding grounds for trouble in general, which is why i'm so strongly apposed against a forum for edubuntu
[07:51] <ogra> forums are fine as long as someone knowledgeable cares for them 
[07:51] <Seveas> ogra, that's the problem with ubuntuforums.org - clueless people are leading it
[07:52] <ogra> as soon as myths out of missing knowledge start to spread, you are lost
[07:52] <Seveas> IRC generally is a similar trouble hole
[07:52] <highvoltage> the thing is, knowledgable people don't use forums, so it tends to be just clueless (maybe a strong word) people who tend to reply
[07:53] <Seveas> but #ubuntu is refreshingly different because there are knowledgeable people who feel at home there (not meaning myself)
[07:53] <LaserJock> I started out on the forums because I was a Gentoo user and I was used to the Gentoo forums
[07:54] <LaserJock> but I got much less "real" help on ubuntuforums
[07:54] <LaserJock> and there was so much flaming and fighting
[07:54] <LaserJock> so I turned to #ubuntu-motu
[07:54] <LaserJock> and I'm glad I did
[07:54] <ogra> we too :)
[07:56] <LaserJock> thanks ;-)
[08:23] <vandenoever> hello, i am here to promote http://www.vandenoever.info/software/cubetest/
[08:23] <vandenoever> for edubuntu
[08:23] <vandenoever> it's a great awardwinning game which teaches spatial insight
[08:24] <ogra> vandenoever, is there a gtk version available ? 
[08:24] <vandenoever> it's qt3 or qt4
[08:24] <ogra> hmm
[08:24] <ogra> i'm planning to get rid of KDE and friends in the next release if possible 
[08:24] <ogra> it steals to much CD space 
[08:25] <vandenoever> ogra: qt3 != kde
[08:25] <vandenoever> qt3 < kde
[08:27] <ogra> yep
[08:27] <ogra> i know and i guess QT will stay, but i'm not sure yet ...
[08:27] <vandenoever> cubetest is not big so it'll fit easily
[08:27] <ogra> could you send your proposal to the mailing list to make more people aware of it
[08:28] <vandenoever> it's also mature
[08:28] <vandenoever> ok what's the address for that?
[08:28] <ogra> its planned to revisit the app selection for the october release, so there are good chances for little helpful apps ;)
[08:28] <ogra> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/edubuntu-devel
[08:29] <vandenoever> thanks!
[08:31] <ogra> :)
[08:32] <ogra> thanks as well :)
[08:48] <LaserJock> ogra: I'm trying to figure out what to name this squeak-image package
[08:48] <LaserJock> ogra: the images of any version can be more or less used with any vm
[08:49] <LaserJock> ogra: so we could have squeak-image3.7 squeak-image3.8 ,etc.
[08:49] <ogra> do you really want different versions ? 
[08:50] <ogra> i'd think we only want the basics and leave it to the user/admin to customize it 
[08:50] <LaserJock> hmm, let me ask #squeak real quick if there is usefullness in having old images
[08:51] <ogra> since we wont pre-customize the image anyway ...
[08:51] <LaserJock> what I'm saying is you can use the image from almost any version with the vm from almost any version
[08:52] <ogra> yep
[08:52] <LaserJock> so should we provide more than one squeak-image package?
[08:52] <ogra> will put more maintenance work on our sholders ...
[08:52] <ogra> i'd go with the latest that works
[08:52] <LaserJock> yeah
[08:53] <LaserJock> ogra: k
[08:53] <highvoltage> goodnight, #edubuntu!
[08:57] <Seveas> ogra, did yo get my mail regarding \sh?
[08:57] <ogra> Seveas, yep ... its on TODAYS TODO :)
[08:58] <Seveas> ok
[08:58] <ogra> (so i still have 3h :) )
[08:58] <Bluekuja> hi ogra :)
[08:58] <Bluekuja> jonathan gone?
[08:59] <ogra> yep
[08:59] <Bluekuja> awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww
[08:59] <Bluekuja> he gone early
[08:59] <Bluekuja> today
 goodnight, #edubuntu!
[08:59] <ogra> * highvoltage has quit ("leaving")
[08:59] <Bluekuja> aww , bad news
[08:59] <ogra> that was 10 min ago
[08:59] <Bluekuja> lol
[08:59] <Bluekuja> too late
[09:00] <ogra> yep
[09:00] <Bluekuja> okie but what time is it in south africa?
[09:01] <Bluekuja> he said goodnight
[09:01] <Bluekuja> so there might be midnight or something like that
[09:05] <ogra> its 9pm
[09:07] <Bluekuja> o
[09:07] <Bluekuja> its early
[09:07] <Bluekuja> maybe hes going out with his girlfrend ehehhe
[09:09] <ogra> heh
[09:10] <Bluekuja> :)
[09:17] <cbx33> Bluekuja, hiya
[09:29] <jelkner> anyone here who could answer an edubuntu support question?
[09:29] <jelkner> the client machine fails to boot
[09:30] <jelkner>   /bin/sh: can't access tty; job control turned off
[09:30] <jelkner> is the last line
[09:30] <jelkner> mount: Mounting /root/dev on /dev/.static/dev failed: No such file or directory
[09:30] <jelkner> seems to be the start of the trouble
[09:35] <jelkner> ok, running  ltsp-update-sshkeys seemed to fix the problem.
[09:36] <jelkner> i wish i understood this better
[09:36] <jelkner> hopefully the new author of the edubuntu cookbook will be able to explain things like this
[09:36] <jelkner> and perhaps it is fixed in dapper?
[09:37] <jelkner> it seems to happen once every few weeks at the library lab
[09:42] <jelkner> well, i gotta run...
[09:42] <jelkner> see you at the meeting tomorrow morning...
[09:49] <ogra> hmm, not that he'd sound bitter ...
[10:33] <lns> Hey all
[10:34] <lns> Does Edubuntu, by default, use SSH as a tunnel for encrypting terminal sessions?
[10:34] <Burgwork> lns, yes
[10:35] <ogra> hey Burgwork :)
[10:35] <lns> Burgwork, thanks! Now what is the correct way of disabling this if I'm using a local LAN and don't need it?
[10:36] <ogra> lns, you mean you dont need the ltsp functionallity at all ? 
[10:36] <lns> ogra, no, I don't want ssh tunneling
[10:36] <Burgwork> salut ogra
[10:36] <ogra> lns, thats a bit tricky cause our ltsp is totally targeted to that architecture ...
[10:37] <ogra> we dont use xdmcp at all 
[10:37] <lns> hrm..
[10:38] <lns> how about if i installed gdm/kdm? would that easily override ldm, or would it screw everything up?
[10:38] <ogra> you will have to tweak the setup through your lts.conf file and install GDM or some other xdmcp capable login manager in the client environment
[10:38] <ogra> ldm would still start ... 
[10:39] <ogra> hmm, wait a sec ...
[10:40] <lns> the reason why I want to disable ssh is because i want the sessions to be as quick as possible... unless any of you disagree that it would improve speed by simply using the x11 proto instead of going through ssh
[10:40] <lns> i'm testing stuff out and things like tuxtyping is incredibly slow due to it's 3d rendering of stuff
[10:40] <ogra> i guess it will work if you install gdm, its supposed to start at position 13 in rc2 
[10:40] <ogra> ldm starts at 20
[10:40] <lns> ok, great
[10:41] <ogra> it wont improve speed 
[10:41] <ogra> but test yourself ...
[10:41] <lns> ok, thanks ogra 
[10:41] <ogra> also try with NETWORK_COMPRESSION=true in lts.conf :)
[10:41] <lns> now here's another thing, how do i customize ldm if i wanna keep it?
[10:42] <ogra> the tunnel is uncompressed by default to support lower specced HW
[10:42] <ogra> in breezy or dapper ? 
[10:42] <lns> hrm
[10:42] <lns> breezy
[10:42] <ogra> no way ... 
[10:42] <lns> oh.. :(
[10:42] <lns> hehe
[10:42] <ogra> you could try to use the dapper package at own risk
[10:42] <ogra> its fullscreen themeable and looks like gdm
[10:43] <lns> yeah that's a catch 22 because i need to demo on friday... ogra IYHO, do you think dapper is ok for a demo at this point?
[10:43] <ogra> its only pygtk .... i know debian ported it back to sarge
[10:43] <lns> i haven't tried it yet, but since it's gonna be out on the 20th i'm assuming it's *almost* done?
[10:44] <ogra> lns, i just ran the flight-6 tests, we'll release a milestone iso this week
[10:44] <ogra> it runs quite ok
[10:44] <lns> :)
[10:44] <lns> good news!!!
[10:44] <ogra> and ltsp wont see any big changes anymore
[10:44] <lns> awesome
[10:44] <lns> i just downloaded flight-5 last night..guess i'll be redownloading ;)
[10:45] <ogra> it wont be out on the 20th 
[10:45] <lns> oh
[10:45] <lns> ok well in any case
[10:45] <ogra> dapper as a whole was postponed to june 1st
[10:45] <lns> oh wow i didn't realise
[10:45] <lns> will upgrading existing servers be pretty seamless?
[10:45] <ogra> even if edubuntu is ready at 20th, we cant release before the underlying arch is released :)
[10:45] <lns> will i be able to apt-get dist-upgrade?
[10:46] <ogra> yep
[10:46] <lns> w00t =)
[10:46] <ogra> even if you come from breezy i'd suggest to rebuild tzhe client environment
[10:46] <shadow> hello!
[10:46] <lns> hey shadow 
[10:46] <shadow> hey ogra !
[10:46] <ogra> the biggest speedups will only happen if you recreate the chroot
[10:46] <ogra> hi shadow 
[10:47] <thedarkener> dumb q-how do you do that?
[10:47] <thedarkener> (rebuild chroot)
[10:47] <thedarkener> sorry i'm still new to ltsp
[10:47] <ogra> sudo rm -r /opt/ltsp/i386 && sudo ltsp-build-client
[10:47] <shadow> ogra, that bug in fstab is killing me...noone knows if it'll be fixed....do you know the fix for it?
[10:47] <ogra> shadow, ?? 
[10:47] <ogra> which bug ?
[10:48] <ogra> (and which bug # ? )
[10:48] <shadow> Dapper shows 7 floppies, none of which will mount...i removed the extras from fstab and /media...still no good
[10:48] <thedarkener> ogra, that won't kill the users' home dirs by rebuilding chroot will it?
[10:49] <ogra> shadow, do yu have the bugnumber handy ? 
[10:49] <ogra> be sure we wont release in such a state :)
[10:49] <shadow> not off hand no, but i was told it is on launchpad
[10:49] <ogra> thedarkener, usually you dont have homedirs in the thin client environment 
[10:50] <thedarkener> ok.
[10:50] <ogra> the desktop session and user environment are on the server ... the thin client chroot is only for running the X server and login manager on the client 
[10:51] <thedarkener> ok, awesome.
[10:51] <thedarkener> thanks =)
[10:51] <ogra> :)
[10:51] <thedarkener> i'm really excited about edubuntu
[10:51] <ogra> cool :)
[10:51] <ogra> Burgwork, did you read the automatix thread ? 
[10:52] <shadow> i tried installing a fully updated Dapper but still same prob, i tried using my fstab from Breezy...no good....
[10:52] <ogra> shadow, its most likely a udev bug ... look in launchpad, there you'll see the status ...
[10:52] <shadow> btw, gcompris still runs like a dream for me...no probs i've encountered yet
[10:53] <ogra> shadow, yvesC will be happy to hear :)
[10:53] <shadow> it should be fixed by the time Dapper goes gold??
[10:53] <ogra> the floppy thing ?
[10:53] <shadow> yes, by all means, tell him it's super
[10:53] <ogra> shadow, he's here, tell him yourself ;)
[10:53] <shadow> yup the floppy thing
[10:54] <ogra> do you think we would release with such a bug ;)
[10:54] <thedarkener> hey ogra any torrent link / url for flight 6?
[10:54] <Burgwork> Burgwork, I avoid automatix, as my doctor recommended I need to keep my blood pressure down
[10:54] <Burgwork> ogra, even
[10:54] <ogra> thedarkener, not yet, flight-6 doesnt exist yet ;)
[10:55] <shadow> yvesC, GCompris fonctionne absolument parfait, merci, merci!
[10:55] <thedarkener> oh ok
[10:55] <thedarkener> durr... ;) thanks guys..otl, be back later
[10:55] <ogra> Burgwork, Peter garretts comments are really worth the thread :-D
[10:55] <Burgwork> ogra, is this on the ubuntuforums?
[10:55] <ogra> thedarkener, flight-6 is due for thursday or friday 
[10:56] <ogra> thedarkener, there will be an announcement on the edubuntu mailing list
[10:56] <ogra> Burgwork, ubuntu-users .... forum gateway
[10:56] <Burgwork> hmm, one of these days I really should install Edubuntu...
[10:56] <ogra> heh
[10:56] <ogra> yes, you should test the new themes :)
[10:56] <Seveas> Burgwork, you should link your nicknames 
[10:58] <shadow> brb
[10:59] <Burgwork> Seveas, think should already be linked
[10:59] <Seveas> they weren't a few minutes ago
[11:00] <Burgwork> hmm
[11:00] <Seveas> /msg nickserv link burgundavia burgundavias_pass
[11:00] <Burgwork> hmm
[11:01] <Burgwork> appears I linked them the wrong way
[11:02] <Burgwork> Seveas, Link failed: circular link detected <-- how do I clear out a linking?
[11:02] <Seveas> hmm, odd
[11:03] <Seveas> so you ARE linked, but burgundavia is cloaked and burgwork not
[11:03] <Burgwork> I think I am linked the wrong way though
[11:04] <Burgwork> burgundavia --> burgwork, not burgwork --> burgundavia
[11:04] <ogra> should that matter ?
[11:04] <Seveas> it shouldn't matter
[11:05] <Burgwork> hmm
[11:07] <Burgwork> ogra, oh, joy. A huge thread filled with arnieboy ranting
[11:08] <ogra> yep
[11:08] <ogra> but Peter Garret deserves the title "ubunthumorist of the month"
[11:08] <ogra> his posts are really great ...
[11:09] <Seveas> Burgwork, try this: /nick asdifvsaufabodf
[11:09] <Seveas> and then /nick Burgwork 
[11:10] <Seveas> (asdifvsaufabodf is not literally needed, but it should be an unregistered nick)
[11:14] <Burgwork> hmm
[11:16] <Burgwork> the opinion that the coc doesn't count in the forums really scares me
[11:17] <ogra> yep
[11:17] <Burgwork> I wonder if it is time for the stick
[11:17] <ogra> i think its over for now ...
[11:17] <Burgwork> no, the forums in general
[11:18] <ogra> but the gateway issue should be solved
[11:19] <Seveas> --- [Burgwork]  (n=corey@ubuntu/member/burgundavia) : Corey Burger
[11:19] <Seveas> it worked 
[11:19] <ogra> hmm
[11:20] <ogra> i still see a dns name
[11:20] <Seveas> your client caches it probably
[11:20] <ogra> yep, a *real* whois shows it right
[11:21] <Burgwork> excellent. Thanks Seveas 
[11:24] <bobulator> hey again... im planning on doing this reinstall then.  im gonna back up the whole home directory, but where is all the other system info stored, ie the user database? whats the ebst way to back this up?
[11:25] <Seveas> bobulator, /etc
[11:26] <Seveas> and some things in /var
[11:26] <LaserJock> ogra: can you take a look at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2218 ?
[11:26] <cbx33> evenin all
[11:26] <bobulator> the whole thing?
[11:27] <ogra> LaserJock, heh, even with alternative :)
[11:28] <LaserJock> ogra: well, I stole that kinda. I based the package off of Lex Spoon's at http://minnow.cc.gatech.edu/squeak/3616
[11:29] <bobulator> Seveas: if i just back those up and dump them back in when im done, will everything be ok?
[11:29] <ogra> ah, well, we probably should change the other packages to his as well ...
[11:29] <Seveas> probably not bobulator 
[11:29] <bobulator> haha ok :D maybe easier just to recreate the user accounts manually?
[11:30] <LaserJock> ogra: I think if squeak-image is done then all we need to do is add a wrapper script to squeak that checks for .image and .changes files
[11:30] <ogra> yep
[11:31] <ogra> i think thats already in ... 
[11:31] <LaserJock> is it?
[11:31] <LaserJock> I know that Lex's packages have a inisqueak shell script
[11:31] <ogra> but i might be wrong, i was as well convinced that the image creating tool was in the package
[11:32] <ogra> yep ..
[11:32] <ogra> and we're missing it ...
[11:33] <ogra> LaserJock, the package is fine with me ... dunno if we need any freeze approval currently ...
[11:33] <ogra> else i'd say upload ....
[11:33] <LaserJock> ogra: well, I can mdz real quick but I thin the NEW is ok
[11:33] <ogra> but since its a bugfix ...
[11:34] <ogra> just upload it, refer to me if anyone asks ...
[11:34] <ogra> squeak is a edubuntu package ...
[11:35] <LaserJock> ok, so then should I add Lex's shell script to squeak-vm?
[11:35] <ogra> (i had 2 weeks discussions with elmo about the license back then)
[11:35] <ogra> yep
[11:35] <LaserJock> yeah, I know they have discussed it in debian-legal
[11:35] <ogra> we're not debian :)
[11:36] <ogra> luckily :)
[11:36] <ogra> sabdlf blessed it in the end 
[11:36] <ogra> elmo wouldnt have left it into the archive
[11:37] <LaserJock> interesting
[11:37] <bobulator> Seveas: so where is just the user database info stored? is it in one place or shall i just recreate all the accounts manaually?
[11:37] <Seveas> /etc/{passwd,group,shadow}
[11:38] <bobulator> cool
[11:38] <bobulator> whats shadow?
[11:39] <ogra> a password database
[11:39] <bobulator> ah ace, encrypted?
[11:40] <bobulator> thanks for that, i love finding new useful files.... mmmmm
[11:42] <ogra> thats an ubuntu system you have currently?
[11:44] <bobulator> ogra, edubuntu
[11:44] <ogra> ah,k
[11:44] <ogra> then its all fine ...
[11:44] <bobulator> good stuff
[11:45] <ogra> other distros define other system users and user ids ... so it would get tricky but from edubuntu to edubuntu will be no problem
[11:45] <ogra> (or kubuntu/ubuntu/xubuntu)
[11:48] <bobulator> coolcool. well, wish me luck, here we go,....
[11:48] <ogra> :)
[11:48] <spacey> goodnight
[11:48] <ogra> night spacey