[12:09] <LaserJock> ogra: I found the problem
[12:09] <LaserJock> ogra: there is a wrapper script. I just isn't installed into the deb
[12:10] <ogra> gah
[12:10] <ogra> my mistake then
[12:11] <LaserJock> ogra: but there needs to be some symlinks (it expects everything in /usr/lib/squeak/ and we install in /usr/share/squeak/)
[12:11] <ogra> just change the script ? i dont think its upstream ... 
[12:12] <ogra> my packages were based on some guadalinex sourcepackages ...
[12:13] <LaserJock> apparently the script is pretty popular
[12:15] <ogra> but why should we add unecessary symlinks ? 
[12:15] <ogra> change the location of the target then ? 
[12:16] <ogra> i.e. lets just install to /usr/lib ...
[12:16] <LaserJock> just a sec, I think the script is created by ./configure so I'm not entirely sure how to switch it
[12:16] <LaserJock> ogra: we could do that too
[12:17] <ogra> if there is no policy violation through installing to /usr/lib ... (which i doubt) ...
[12:29] <LaserJock> ogra: initsqueak is created by ./configure so I think it would be better to symlink or change install targets
[12:31] <ogra> lets change targets then 
[12:32] <ogra> there is no danger that we clash with debian any day before apple is broke
[12:32] <LaserJock> lol
[12:33] <ogra> and i think the upstream code didnt change since ages, did it ? 
[12:33] <LaserJock> I don't think so
[12:33] <LaserJock> but now I got #squeak arguing about inisqueak so...
[12:34] <ogra> heh
[12:34] <LaserJock> see inisqueak is ok from CLI
[12:34] <LaserJock> but as far as putting something in the menu, it isn't so good
[12:35] <LaserJock> somebody over there has a little zenity script but I'm not sure if that is a great solution either
[12:35] <ogra> it needs to check if the user has a writable image ... if so, it should start the vm ... if not, it should create a default image ...
[12:35] <ogra> doesnt it do that ? 
[12:35] <ogra> why should zenity be needed ?
[12:36] <LaserJock> it copies the default image to `pwd` if one isn't found
[12:36] <ogra> i dont see any need for user interaction ... 
[12:36] <LaserJock> what would `pwd` be for a menu item?
[12:36] <ogra> and i dont see why we shouldnt be able to run it from a .desktop file
[12:37] <ogra> cd ~ && inisqueak ?
[12:37] <LaserJock> yeah, that was just what was suggested in #squeak
[12:37] <ogra> but i think you can make it a lot more elegant ...
[12:37] <LaserJock> is a .desktop file installed?
[12:38] <LaserJock> I didn't see one offhand
[12:38] <ogra> iirc there is an option in the xdg spec for the working dir
[12:38] <ogra> it should at least be in the source 
[12:39] <LaserJock> ok, so here is what I'll do. I'll fix the targets to put .changes .image and .sources in /usr/lib/squeak and then make sure a .desktop is installed that runs inisqueak
[12:43] <LaserJock> ogra: I think Path might work in the .desktop
[12:46] <LaserJock> I think I can also get rid of /etc/alternatives stuff in squeak-image since alternatives are essentially handles by inisqueak
[01:29] <iGotNoTime> ogra are you here?
[01:30] <iGotNoTime> I just was at this page: https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuWiki and at the bottom it says....
[01:30] <iGotNoTime>  Edubuntu 5.10   ogra is the lead person
[01:31] <iGotNoTime> I feel so bad about asking for so much help from someone sooooo far ahead of what I could ever do with Linux, just wanted to say I appreciate the help you gave me and the time
[01:31] <ogra> thats been an old spec 
[01:31] <iGotNoTime> just a thank you :)
[01:31] <ogra> i should just lead the development on it ...
[01:31] <ogra> :)
[01:32] <ogra> actually i didnt know that page still exists :)
[01:32] <iGotNoTime> yeah it was the main :D
[01:32] <ogra> it was the frontpage when we started and had a separate wiki
[01:34] <ogra> oh, its still linked as the frontpage from the website :) i didnt know that 
[01:35] <iGotNoTime> honored you are :D
[01:37] <iGotNoTime> I have a suggestion... It took me forever to find how to add a "start-up program", maybe that could be in it's own menu dialogue rather than under sessions?
[01:38] <iGotNoTime> Unless you are looking to avoid the Windows feel :P
[01:38] <iGotNoTime> just a suggestion from a guy with XP still very fresh in his head :)
[01:39] <ogra> there is an easier way :)
[01:39] <ogra> just save your session ...
[01:39] <ogra> (alt-f2 and type gnome-session-save)
[01:40] <iGotNoTime> I am scared how much temp space it would take to do that :)
[01:40] <ogra> it will then start up whats currently running
[01:40] <ogra> none at all 
[01:40] <iGotNoTime> I never reboot anyway, just a thought for those who do
[01:40] <iGotNoTime> that's very cool :)
[01:41] <ogra> it just saves a list of the currently running programs and their open files ... 
[01:41] <ogra> and restores the session to match that list 
[01:41] <iGotNoTime> I do actually save session on my laptop, but I have issues with it so I don't use now
[01:41] <iGotNoTime> the fan does not work with edubuntu LOL
[01:41] <iGotNoTime> I could cook eggs on it
[01:42] <ogra> whats that for a laptop ? 
[01:42] <iGotNoTime> Averatec 3200 series
[01:42] <iGotNoTime> I think 3250
[01:42] <ogra> amd64 ? 
[01:42] <iGotNoTime> no big deal, I just run it for no more than 10 minutes these days because of it :)
[01:42] <ogra> or i386
[01:43] <iGotNoTime> it is AMD but I don't know what chip
[01:43] <ogra> but its clearly a bug ...
[01:43] <iGotNoTime> could just be my brand
[01:43] <iGotNoTime> I am not blaming edubuntu :)
[01:43] <ogra> unless you have an amd64 and run the i386 version on it
[01:43] <ogra> blame edubuntu ... 
[01:43] <iGotNoTime> edubuntu is too cute to blame for anything bad :D
[01:44] <ogra> its supposed to work and should be fixed :)
[01:44] <iGotNoTime> I had a nightmare experience with CentOS a couple weeks ago
[01:44] <iGotNoTime> completely crashed my bios
[01:44] <iGotNoTime> had to buy a new motherboard
[01:44] <ogra> how that ? 
[01:44] <iGotNoTime> I don't know
[01:45] <iGotNoTime> I never would have thought a distro could do anything like that
[01:45] <iGotNoTime> I always had to flash my bios before
[01:45] <iGotNoTime> couldn't re-flash this one because bios is not public yet
[01:45] <iGotNoTime> so here it sits
[01:45] <iGotNoTime> they said in IRC they have seen it before
[01:46] <iGotNoTime> crazy
[01:46] <iGotNoTime> anyway I am back to the wiki :)
[01:46] <iGotNoTime> have a great night :)
[01:55] <ogra> night :)
[01:58] <LaserJock> ogra: ok, I actually found a shell script from Lex Spoon that does exactly what we want
[01:58] <ogra> cool
[01:58] <ogra> did you get my last messages before my line dropped ?
 iirc there is an option in the xdg spec for the working dir
 it should at least be in the source 
 the .desktop file is in the linex dir in squeak-vm
[01:59] <LaserJock> yeah, I found the .desktop
[01:59] <ogra> there is also an inisqueak (called just squeak)
[01:59] <LaserJock> but inisqueak is interactive so it put me in an infinite loop :-)
[02:00] <ogra> sadly its spanish ... 
[02:00] <ogra> and my spanish is nonexistent :)
[02:00] <LaserJock> but this script I found really does the same thing but better, for now
[02:00] <ogra> yep
[02:00] <ogra> the linex one is pretty evil 
[02:01] <ogra> ensuredir()
[02:01] <ogra> {
[02:01] <ogra>   if [ ! -d "${1}" ]  ; then
[02:01] <ogra>     if mkdir "${1}" ; then
[02:01] <ogra>         echo squeak: Creado ${1}
[02:01] <ogra>         if [ -d $GNOME_DESKTOP ] ; then
[02:01] <ogra>                 cp /usr/share/applications/squeak.desktop $GNOME_DESKTOP/
[02:01] <ogra>         fi
[02:01] <ogra>     else
[02:01] <ogra>       echo squeak: <A1>No se ha podido crear ${1}!
[02:01] <ogra>     fi
[02:01] <ogra>   fi
[02:01] <LaserJock> the inisqueak script is good for installing multiple versions because it asks you which .image you want to install
[02:01] <ogra> }
[02:01] <ogra> it copies the .desktop file on your desktop if its not there yet ...
[02:02] <ogra> if you delete it and start suqeak, it will reappear
[02:03] <LaserJock> ok, so to make squeak working we can install this script to /usr/bin/squeak and have squeak-image
[02:04] <ogra> yep
[02:04] <LaserJock> ok, I'll have it done shortly
[02:19] <iGotNoTime> I have a noob question.... some programs start in usr/bin/ and some start from usr/share/
[02:19] <iGotNoTime> what's the difference?
[02:21] <iGotNoTime> For example Gdesklets is in /usr/bin/ yet Asterisk is in /usr/share/
[02:22] <iGotNoTime> oops just double-checking I meant sbin not share :P
[02:23] <Sergi0>  /share are alot of stuf data for the programs, normaly the executable should be in /usr/bin
[02:23] <Sergi0> sbin if system task, a normal user would need them, sudo or root does use them
[02:24] <iGotNoTime> ok
[02:24] <Sergi0> a normal user would not need them :P
[02:24] <Sergi0> bad typo :)
[02:24] <iGotNoTime> so more like system utilities and such?
[02:24] <Sergi0> yup
[02:25] <iGotNoTime> ok
[08:13] <iGotNoTime> Anyone know the TFTP default root directory in edubuntu?
[09:48] <JaneW> Here's a feature we DON'T need for Edubuntu  http://www.boreme.com/boreme/funny-2002/paperclip-p1.php
[09:48] <Burgundavia> http://www.nongnu.org/pyscitrivia/howto.html
[09:48] <Burgundavia> hmm, looks nifty
[09:49] <Burgundavia> too bad it needs pygame
[09:53] <vandenoever> hello, yesterday i posted a msg to the mailing list
[09:53] <vandenoever> it's awaiting moderation
[09:53] <vandenoever> does that usually take long?
[09:54] <Burgundavia> JaneW: it might be smart to register edubuntu.com
[09:54] <Burgundavia> oh, wait, nev mind
[09:57] <Burgundavia> ogra: you awake?
[10:01] <jamey2> my college is interested in setting up an edubuntu/ubuntu network, can someone please advise me on a few things?
[10:01] <Burgundavia> jamey2: shoot. I might be able to answer
[10:02] <jamey2> thanks
[10:02] <jamey2> ok, well our first worry is how the servers will work... how do multiple servers work together, and what sort of spec will we need?
[10:03] <Burgundavia> jamey2: there are a number of ways, but I understand quite well. I am not the expert on this
[10:03] <jamey2> i've been reading on the wikis, it seems they recommend a base of 256 mb + about 50 mb per client
[10:03] <jamey2> but then other sites recommend varying amounts of RAM per client
[10:03] <jamey2> what do you think?
[10:04] <Burgundavia> edubunt is a little bit heavier than some other ltsp, from what I understand
[10:04] <jamey2> ah ok, i see
[10:04] <Burgundavia> I think our recommendation is 128 per client
[10:04] <jamey2> woah
[10:04] <Burgundavia> let me just find
[10:05] <jamey2> right... that means 256 + (128 * 250)... 32256 mb
[10:05] <jamey2> ok
[10:06] <Burgundavia> ok, Edubuntu documentation is a mess
[10:06] <jamey2> yeah it's a bit disorganized
[10:06] <Burgundavia> jamey2: anyway, what other questions did you have?
[10:06] <jamey2> how do the servers work together?
[10:07] <jamey2> i've searched a while but can't find much on multiple servers under ltsp/*ubuntu
[10:08] <Burgundavia> I believe it is possible, but to be honest, I am not certain how, nor can I point you at a doc
[10:08] <jamey2> ok thanks anyway
[10:09] <jamey2> i do have another question: how do you find edubuntu for education in general?
[10:09] <Burgundavia> good and getting better
[10:10] <jamey2> great
[10:10] <Burgundavia> the current stable release is first release, with a few kinks
[10:10] <jamey2> brill
[10:10] <Burgundavia> s/is/is a
[10:10] <Burgundavia> our next stable release is on July 1st
[10:10] <Burgundavia> this next release will be supported for 3 years
[10:11] <ogra> Burgundavia, we're not clear about that yet for edubuntu .
[10:11] <Burgundavia> ogra: oh?
[10:11] <ogra> since we say server distros are supported 5 years 
[10:11] <jamey2> ah
[10:11] <ogra> and edubuntu defaults to a server install
[10:11] <jamey2> ogra, do you have in idea about multiple server configs?
[10:11] <ogra> but its not a classic server 
[10:12] <Burgundavia> no
[10:12] <Burgundavia> effectively, that would mean supporting gnome for 5 years
[10:12] <ogra> jamey2, you maen clustering like openmosix etc ? 
[10:12] <jamey2> um, not exactly
[10:12] <jamey2> i've read on a few pages that you can simply have multiple ltsp/edubuntu servers which spread the load
[10:12] <ogra> just a bootserver and an appserver then ? 
[10:12] <jamey2> ah yeah
[10:13] <jamey2> well i thought one would be the file server, the rest app servers or something?
[10:13] <ogra> we use simple ssh tunnels to forward the display, so every machine with a ssh server and some kind of desktop installed can be a server
[10:14] <ogra> you could then also split out the booting to a separate server (which likely makes no sense) 
[10:14] <ogra> and add a nfs server with home dirs
[10:14] <jamey2> i see
[10:16] <ogra> in principle you can split ltsp into one server per task if you really want that 
[10:17] <ogra> for real clustering you should talk to neuralis, he experimented a lot with openssi 
[10:17] <ogra> he's usually in #ltsp
[10:17] <jamey2> i'm talking to him now :)
[10:17] <ogra> oh, i see
[10:17] <ogra> heh
[10:18] <jamey2> sorry for sounding so naive, but what i meant is...
[10:18] <ogra> wasnt in that tab today yet :)
[10:18] <Burgundavia> ogra: have we ever considered pygame?
[10:18] <ogra> Burgundavia, dont we ship it in the ubuntu default install already ?
[10:18] <jamey2> we have a large college with 250 machines spread out over a large area but all on the same subnet. we want any student to be able to login from any terminal and get their home dir /apps
[10:18] <Burgundavia> ogra: universe
[10:19] <ogra> ah
[10:19] <jamey2> so would a nfs server with the home dirs work, and does edubuntu/ltsp deal with this config?
[10:19] <ogra> most likely nobody stepped up to support it for main yet ...
[10:19] <jamey2> sorry for all the questions
[10:19] <Burgundavia> ogra: it would mean pulling more of sdl in
[10:19] <ogra> not out of the box, you'll need some tweaking
[10:20] <ogra> Burgundavia, yep ... i doubt pitti would be happy
[10:20] <ogra> but it shouldnt be to hard to achieve that 
[10:20] <Burgundavia> jamey2: no questions means nobody is using edubuntu, so questions are good :)
[10:20] <ogra> (i.e. likely only an entry in the clients fstab)
[10:21] <ogra> since i'm currently the walking documentation for ubuntu ltsp (dont let me get hit by a bus) ... go and ask ;)
[10:21] <ogra> s/go/go on/
[10:22] <Burgundavia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PythonEduLab <-- lets make pitti tear his hair out for dapper+1 :)
[10:23] <ogra> the title sounds suspicious like a jelkner thing ...
[10:23] <Burgundavia> it is
[10:24] <highvoltage> ogra: does nexenta contain all the packages that ubuntu does
[10:24] <ogra> lol
[10:24] <highvoltage> ?
[10:24] <Burgundavia> highvoltage: mostly
[10:24] <highvoltage> (hi, btw)
[10:24] <ogra> highvoltage, i'd guess so, yes
[10:24] <ogra> as far as they compile
[10:24] <highvoltage> Burgundavia: would you be able to do a apt-get install edubuntu-desktop in nexenta?
[10:24] <Burgundavia> highvoltage: don't know if they do the meta packages
[10:24] <ogra> highvoltage, you would if they did :)
[10:25] <highvoltage> ogra: what do you mean?
[10:25] <Burgundavia> wxwidgets, pygame, sdl, where does the crack stop?
[10:25] <ogra> Burgundavia, ask jelkner :)
[10:25] <highvoltage> Burgundavia: hollywood, baby
[10:26] <ogra> highvoltage, you would be able to install edubuntu on nexenta if they would build it 
[10:26] <highvoltage> ok.
[10:26] <ogra> we'll have our own sparc port soon, then ltsp will work on sparc and we'll have edubuntu on sparc ...
[10:26] <ogra> (dapper+1)
[10:28] <Burgundavia> is sparc going official for dapper+1?
[10:29] <ogra> i think so ...
[10:29] <ogra> but there is nothing final yet
[10:29] <Burgundavia> I should be in Germany in July, so we can chat more then
[10:33] <ogra> i'm not sure if *i* am in germany in july ...
[10:33] <Burgundavia> why not?
[10:33] <ogra> we'll pretty sure not have our conference her 
[10:33] <ogra> e
[10:33] <Burgundavia> oh
[10:33] <Burgundavia> while silly people are kicking around a silly black and white ball?
[10:33] <ogra> soccer championship starts mid june
[10:34] <ogra> i rather hide from that :)
[10:35] <Burgundavia> it is a real shame that schoolforge is basically dead
[10:41] <highvoltage> :(
[10:42] <Burgundavia> as is seul/edu
[10:42] <Burgundavia> in fact, I think the most active educational stuff in Linux has been centered around ltsp
[10:43] <spacey> mhz had some educational content ideas as well
[10:43] <spacey> but i didn't read anything about it after he proposed it
[10:43] <Burgundavia> I wish I had more time in the day
[10:43] <spacey> yeah
[10:44] <spacey> or my lifespan would be longer
[10:44] <spacey> or need less sleep :P
[10:44] <spacey> no time !:P
[10:49] <jsgotangco> Burgundavia: that's not a silly black and white ball :P
[10:49] <jsgotangco> trying to hit a puck with a stick is much sillier :P
[10:50] <Burgundavia> I was arguing about a silly b/w ball, nothing to do with another silly sport involving a puck
[10:51] <ogra> Burgundavia, schoolforge dead ?
[10:51] <ogra> what makes you think that ? 
[10:52] <Burgundavia> ogra: the app list is barely maintained and hideous
[10:52] <jsgotangco> well 3/4 of the world beg to differ on the b/w ball heh
[10:52] <Burgundavia> only because it takes less equipment to play
[10:52] <ogra> Burgundavia, that might be true, but schoolforge itself was at least alive in january 
[10:52] <ogra> (i met one of the guys at a conference)
[10:53] <Burgundavia> which conference?
[10:53] <ogra> a thin from the EU
[10:53] <ogra> *thing
[10:53] <Burgundavia> http://www.schoolforge.net/ <-- this schoolforge?
[10:53] <ogra> yes
[10:53] <JaneW> guys, we have been asked what text we would like on the edubuntu CD covers...?
[10:54] <ogra> oh, do we ? 
[10:54] <highvoltage> :)
[10:54] <jsgotangco> with a dragon yin yang tatoo
[10:54] <Burgundavia> "this computer will cause your teacher to be happy. Use with caution"
[10:54] <highvoltage> JaneW: what about updating the text that were on the old covers?
[10:54] <ogra> if anyone is fond of helping to test flight-6, its due for today
[10:55] <jsgotangco> ohhh
[10:55] <jsgotangco> should i grab an image?
[10:55] <highvoltage> kewl
[10:55] <ogra> yeah, grab it :)
[10:56] <pips1> ogra, there is  http://www.schoolforge.net/ and http://schoolforge.org.uk/ . The latter is maintained by John Ingleby who we met in London :-)
[10:56] <jsgotangco> shold i get the currend daily?
[10:56] <Burgundavia> pips1: the former is still active, but appears to be US oriented
[10:56] <ogra> pips1, ahh, then i muddled them 
[10:57] <ogra> Burgundavia, i meant .co.uk
[10:57] <pips1> org.uk ;-)
[10:57] <ogra> err, yes
[10:58] <ogra> do they also need their own namespace on the internt ? 
[10:59] <JaneW> we had this for the CDs before (unofficial) https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuCdLabelAndSlip
[10:59] <Burgundavia> well, good night. I need to sleep
[11:00] <ogra> night Burgundavia 
[11:00] <ogra> JaneW, we should adjust that a bit, but i think its still fine
[11:01] <JaneW> ogra: I think so too
[11:02] <JaneW> ogra: think we should list some of the applications and uses?
[11:02] <highvoltage> night Burgundavia 
[11:02] <jsgotangco> probably the more obvious ones
[11:03] <ogra> JaneW, i woldnt ... the app selection slowly starts to differ between the arches due to our space problems
[11:04] <highvoltage> JaneW: there was another cd slip too, wasn't there? or was that Ubuntu
[11:05] <highvoltage> JaneW: i remember seeing a nice edubuntu one with a breezy badger on it
[11:06] <JaneW> highvoltage: no that was never official or accepted
[11:06] <JaneW> it was created by Sebastein Loss
[11:07] <JaneW> he put a huge amount of effort in and I was a bit annoyed that none of his stuff was used
[11:07] <JaneW> or even acknowledged as far as I know
[11:09] <highvoltage> i've always liked his stuff. i feel a bit bad that his stuff wan't used either, but as far as i can recall, it was just because no printed cd's were planned?
[11:09] <highvoltage> JaneW: i loved his design though
[11:09] <highvoltage> (still do)
[11:13] <ogra> ok, i386 live seems good ...
[11:13] <jsgotangco> crickey so i get to test amd64 for edubuntu flight 6 jeez
[11:14] <ogra> yeah
[11:14] <jsgotangco> ok 1 hour to go
[11:15] <JaneW> ogra: did you see silb's message for edubuntu artwork links?
[11:17] <highvoltage> ogra: is this the flight 6 cd? http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/daily/current/dapper-install-i386.iso
[11:18] <jsgotangco> im getting the current as well
[11:18] <jsgotangco> well that's the candidate for flight 6
[11:19] <ogra> highvoltage, yep
[11:19] <ogra> live will likely se a rebuild to get the latest network-manager in
[11:58] <pips1> ogra, the header info still says MEETING: March 15 at 12:00 UTC instead of March 29 12:00 UTC ... also, I just realised that in Europe, we now have +2 hours off-set from UTC, because of daylight saving time...
[11:59] <ogra> feel free to chane :)
[11:59] <ogra> *change
[11:59] <ogra> the topic isnt locked
[12:03] <ogra> JaneW, according to silbs request, we'll likely have another text it seems
[12:03] <JaneW> ogra: huh?
[12:03] <JaneW> ogra: she sent me a mail asking for CD civer text, which I replied to
[12:03] <ogra> JaneW, see her last mail
[12:04] <JaneW> ogra: now she wants install instructions
[12:04] <JaneW> and min specs
[12:04] <ogra> yes
[12:04] <ogra> the'll fill the cover already 
[12:04] <JaneW> ogra: can you respond
[12:04] <JaneW> to make sure it's correct
[12:04] <ogra> yep
[12:04] <JaneW> thanks
[12:04] <JaneW> be consise!
[12:05] <ogra> waiting for your reply to hit my inbox ...
[12:05] <ogra> meh, install CDs need a rebuild too
[12:06] <JaneW> ogra: I'll fwd
[12:06] <JaneW> the first mail didn;t have you CCed
[12:06] <ogra> ah, k
[12:06] <ogra> then it gets hard to check :)
[12:10] <ogra> JaneW, dont we also offer commercial support as well ? 
[12:11] <JaneW> ogra: er, I donlt know, not officially yet afaik
[12:11] <JaneW> but I am sure we would/could if there was demand
[12:12] <ogra> we have a special http://www.ubuntu.com/support/supportoptions/paidsupport talks about "Cluster and Thin Client Support"
[12:12] <ogra> *special offer
[12:15] <JaneW> oic
[12:23] <ogra> jsgotangco, the kbd-chooser changes were forgotten ... you might have probs installing with a non english keyboard
[12:23] <ogra> (there is a CD rebuild pending)
[12:23] <jsgotangco> its ok i'll test it on an en_us keyboard
[12:23] <jsgotangco> the only non-us keyboard i have here are my 2 laptops
[12:23] <ogra> and live is missing the latest artwork ...
[12:24] <jsgotangco> oh not that much of an issue then
[12:24] <ogra> thanks to a rebuild of the complete KDE world ...
[12:24] <jsgotangco> except the kbd
[12:24] <jsgotangco> weee
[01:45] <Bluekujaa> jonathan?
[01:48] <JaneW> **Reminder** Edubuntu meeting in #ubuntu-meeting in 12 mins
[01:49] <Bluekujaa> yeah i remember it :)
[01:49] <Bluekujaa> i will arrive 5 minutes later
[01:49] <Bluekujaa> ;)
[01:55] <highvoltage> i'm here i'm here i'm here!
[01:55] <highvoltage> geez, traffic is dense, and i'm in time for the meeting :)
[01:56] <ogra> arent you using gprs anyway ? 
[01:56] <ogra> you could do it from a traffic jam :)
[01:57] <highvoltage> ogra: i've used IRC on gprs from my laptop while driving before, it won't be the first :)
[01:57] <highvoltage> (although right now i'm at work with nice, free bandwidth)
[01:57] <ogra> heh
[03:04] <bobulator> afternoon, it's all gone a bit wrong. i did a fresh flight 5 install, and im getting 'Error 17: CAnnot mount selected partition' any ideas?
[03:06] <ogra> bobulator, looks like a BIOS issue, set the acess mode for your disk to LBA
[03:08] <bobulator> ogra, hmm do you know what section thats in? i cant see it... brb
[03:08] <ogra> no idea ... anywhere in the HD settings of the BIOS
[03:10] <bobulator> k
[03:13] <bobulator> ogra, ah got it, LBA mode is on. just checking... i put GRUB on the main partition of the system drive (its not asked me that question before, incidentally). and it also says it cant read the filesystem type
[03:14] <ogra> err, you need to put GRUB into the MBR, unless you already have a bootloader
[03:15] <bobulator> wheres the MBR?
[03:15] <bobulator> its jsut odd its not asked me where to put it before...
[03:19] <bobulator> where should i be installing grub then if not on the main partition?
[03:19] <highvoltage> bobulator: MBR is your master boot record
[03:19] <highvoltage> it's located at the beginning of the disk, it's where your bios looks for information about your bootloader
[03:20] <highvoltage> if your hard disk is /dev/sda, then specifying /dev/sda as your location to install grub will install it to MBR
[03:20] <bobulator> ok... i think thats what i did though.
[03:20] <highvoltage> if you specify a partition, such as /dev/sda1, then it won't write to your MBR, which is useful for dual-booting.
[03:20] <bobulator> maybe i did /dev/hde1, would that mess it up?
[03:20] <bobulator> ahhhh
[03:21] <highvoltage> 'mess up' is perhaps a strong word
[03:21] <bobulator> do you think thats my problem? im getting "Error 17: CAnnot mount selected partition"
[03:21] <highvoltage> you could chroot into your installation and do a 'sudo grub-install /dev/hde' and it could re-install it on MBR
[03:21] <bobulator> and the grub thing was the only thing in the install process i was unsure of
[03:22] <highvoltage> i don't know, it's possible, though.
[03:22] <bobulator> ok :)
[03:22] <bobulator> hmm how can i chroot into a half installed system though? methinks i need to start again... argh
[03:23] <bobulator> it wont let me ssh in anyway
[03:23] <ogra> highvoltage, pfft ... 
[03:23] <ogra> "<highvoltage> you could chroot into your installation and do a 'sudo grub-install /dev/hde' and it could re-install it on MBR"
[03:23] <ogra> the CD has a rescue mode ...
[03:23] <ogra> with an option to fix the grub install ;)
[03:23] <highvoltage> ah, right! sorry, i'm a bit old school.
[03:23] <bobulator> ah ok :D
[03:23] <ogra> you just select it :)
[03:23] <bobulator> thats the kind of answer i wanted ;) haha
[03:24] <highvoltage> bobulator: yes, use the nice, shiny rescue mode.
[03:24] <highvoltage> :)
[03:24] <bobulator> the new install screen is pretty, btw
[03:24] <ogra> (needs testing as well :) )
[03:24] <bobulator> yeah theres some weird ggraphics glitch when it loads the progress bar, but i dont think it really matters...
[03:26] <highvoltage> bobulator: you have an intel extreme 2 display card? i've seen something similar to that before.
[03:26] <bobulator> its an ati something something
[03:26] <bobulator> mack 64 II+ extra blah blah
[03:27] <bobulator> ogra, hmm ok, its giving me a choice of devices to use as a root file system, and i have no idea which is which... its listing them as /dev/disk/
[03:27] <ogra> wow, mach 64 is ancient
[03:27] <bobulator> hmm ill double check when it boots
[03:28] <ogra> choose the MBR of your first disk ...
[03:28] <ogra> (not a partition)
[03:28] <bobulator> the options are all in the form /discx /partx
[03:29] <bobulator> so maybe /disc0/part1?
[03:29] <bobulator> that sounds like a partition though
[03:30] <highvoltage> bobulator: what does your bios boot from? /dev/hda?
[03:30] <bobulator> hde
[03:31] <highvoltage> bobulator: then i suggest you try /dev/hde
[03:31] <bobulator> for some reason, even though its on IDE0
[03:31] <bobulator> thats not an option
[03:31] <highvoltage> what are your options?
[03:31] <bobulator> the options are... /dev/disks/disc0/part1 part2 part5, and /dev/disks/disk1/part1 part2 part5, or dev/disks/disk2/part1
[03:32] <bobulator> oh god im being an idiot this is just asking me what i want to use as my rtoot file system
[03:32] <bobulator> argh
[03:32] <highvoltage> hehe :)
[03:33] <bobulator> hmm although, theres no option to reinstall grub if i do select one?
[03:33] <bobulator> the options are... 'execute a shell in /dev/disks/...,' 'execute a shell in the installer environment', 'choose a diff root file system'
[03:34] <highvoltage> i don't know, let me boot from edubuntu CD and check...
[03:34] <bobulator> cool :)
[03:39] <highvoltage> bobulator: did you choose "Re-install GRUB bootloader"?
[03:39] <highvoltage> you are then given a field where you can type in the device
[03:41] <bobulator> there was no option for that
[03:41] <bobulator> hmm
[03:41] <bobulator> ill try again
[03:41] <bobulator> if i go back a bit i can get to 'install the grub boot loader' but theres no 'reinstall' option
[03:41] <bobulator> ill reset anwyay
[03:44] <bobulator> highvoltage, yup ok, so the first option is what to use as a root file system, probably disc0/part1 right?
[03:45] <bobulator> ahhhhh
[03:45] <bobulator> ok the drives are back to front, that explains it
[03:47] <bobulator> highvoltage, still doesnt work :p
[03:48] <highvoltage> :/
[03:48] <bobulator> is there any equivalant of df in grub so i can double check the disks?
[03:48] <ogra> alt-f2 
[03:49] <bobulator> doesnt do antyhing? :S
[03:51] <JaneW> gah, I am sick again :(
[03:52] <jsgotangco> hey
[03:52] <JaneW> hey jsgotangco 
[03:52] <jsgotangco> you need ubuntu soup
[03:52] <jsgotangco> JaneW: i hope everything is well on your side
[03:52] <JaneW> I am half way through the mailing list mail to jdub and am stuck
[03:52] <JaneW> do we want everyone subscribed to both?
[03:52] <jsgotangco> err
[03:52] <jsgotangco> you need another list?
[03:52] <bobulator> ogra, highvoltage: maybe i should get the latest breezy install then update it manually?
[03:53] <JaneW> I have had som many conflicting opinions and requests that I don't know anymore
[03:54] <Pygi> JaneW: bah, no good :-/
[03:54] <highvoltage> JaneW: i think we should get everyone who's currenlty on -devel on -users
[03:54] <ogra> JaneW, yes !
[03:54] <JaneW> so can I asked for e-devel + e-users and subscribe everyone to both and they can unsub at will?
[03:54] <highvoltage> JaneW: after that, people can subscribe/re-subscribe as they please
[03:54] <JaneW> it's around 380 ppl
[03:55] <highvoltage> ctrl+c, ctrl+v :)
[03:55] <ogra> JaneW, we want them on both, quote me on that and send complaints to me 
[03:55] <JaneW> ok deal !
[03:55] <JaneW> :)
[03:55] <ogra> :)
[03:55] <highvoltage> :)
[03:55] <Pygi> :)
[03:56] <ogra> ok, next i386 testinstall running 
[03:56] <ogra> that really sucks, i had to cancel some appointments this afternoon, the CDs were ready this morning :(
[03:56] <JaneW> ok sent
[03:56] <Pygi> ogra: huh :-/
[03:57] <ogra> but now it looks like another nightshift ...
[03:57] <highvoltage> :(
[03:57] <ogra> Pygi, shit happens
[03:58] <Pygi> ogra: what happened exactly? (except me and "my" patch ) ^_^
[03:58] <ogra> you and your patch 
[03:58] <ogra> and a bug in the kdb-chooser of the install Cd
[03:58] <Pygi> o joy :'(
[03:58] <Pygi> sorry for that ogra :-//
[03:58] <ogra> Pygi, its ok ...
[03:59] <Pygi> nah, it's not really :-/
[03:59] <ogra> would have been my first CD set where everything work flawless
[03:59] <ogra> it never happens :)
[03:59] <jsgotangco> hmm
[03:59] <jsgotangco> ogra: well for consolation, amd64 installed nicely
[03:59] <highvoltage> anyone seen mhz around lately?
[03:59] <Pygi> ogra: yes, but this time It's my fault :-P
[03:59] <ogra> jsgotangco, what keymap ? 
[03:59] <jsgotangco> US
[03:59] <ogra> heh, ok
[04:00] <ogra> all others are buggy on your version :)
[04:00] <jsgotangco> meh
[04:00] <ogra> the fix went in after you downloaded ...
[04:00] <jsgotangco> it seems even n-m isn't working
[04:01] <Pygi> jsgotangco: ok, what is the problem with n-m this time?
[04:01] <ogra> nope, and i dont understand the reason behind switching to 0.6.x on the current CD ... its known to be broken and in flux 
[04:02] <Pygi> ogra: actually, drivers and wpasupplicant is more broken that n-m itself
[04:02] <bobulator> help :( ive triple checked everything and i cant work out whats wrong at allll. im gonna install breezy and update unless anyone has any better ideas...
[04:02] <jsgotangco> bobulator: what exactly is the problem? i have no scrollback
[04:03] <bobulator> standard install off a flight 5 disk, and im getting 'error 17: cannot mount selected partition'
[04:03] <ogra> Pygi, but we already know its broken ... testing is pointless in that case 
[04:04] <Pygi> ogra: agreed :-/
[04:04] <Pygi> ogra: hopefully 0.6.2 is better
[04:04] <Pygi> much better
[04:04] <Yagisan> ogra: <pc mode=off>we know the reason. All the pussies on the m-l and forums<pc mode=on>
[04:05] <ogra> pc mode ? 
[04:05] <ogra> wasnt that CoC mode ? ;)
[04:05] <Yagisan> politically correct
[04:05] <ogra> Pygi, with all the effort you guys put into it, it would be a miracle if it wouldnt :)
[04:06] <Pygi> ogra: bah ;) Everyone makes it's share of work ... that's why dapper will rock ;)
[04:06] <Yagisan> many viable alternatives, but people want to torture themselves
[04:07] <Yagisan> is there really enough time to properly test n-m 0.6 ?
[04:08] <ogra> we have until june 1st :)
[04:08] <bobulator> jsgotangco, any better ideas or shall i do what i suggested?
[04:08] <ogra> and its ugly to revert versions 
[04:09] <Pygi> ogra: yup, true ;) now tell me the mail where I request UVF exception, preety please? ^_^
[04:09] <ogra> Pygi, see the wikipage Kamion posted
[04:09] <Pygi> Yagisan: we are working on that as much as we can... I haven't slept for 4 days :-P
[04:09] <bobulator> taking about reverting versions, openoffice seems loads better than openoffice2 to me...
[04:09] <ogra> Pygi, sleep is for the weak
[04:09] <jsgotangco> yes sleep is for the weak
[04:09] <ogra> or the week ?
[04:10] <Pygi> yes, yes, very interesting indeed ^_^
[04:10] <ogra> bobulator, thats not reverting versions :)
[04:10] <jsgotangco> bobulator: hmmmm
[04:10] <jsgotangco> that's going back to the past
[04:10] <ogra> bobulator, its just a new package name ... the version is different
[04:10] <Yagisan> Pygi: that's sort of my point. it is a lot of work. (and someone will whinge for 0.7 the moment you finish)
[04:10] <ogra> jsgotangco, nope, ooo switched the name upstream 
[04:11] <jsgotangco> eh?
[04:11] <ogra> they'll drop the 1.X line
[04:11] <jsgotangco> oh goodie
[04:11] <Pygi> Yagisan: hm, If I ever learned something while developing things, I learned that there is no such thing as "finished"
[04:11] <ogra> so the 2 isnt needed anymore in the package name
[04:11] <jsgotangco> ahh
[04:11] <jsgotangco> well it makes sense though
[04:12] <Yagisan> Pygi: sure there is. It's the moment you make a release. the you get a new task.
[04:12] <Yagisan> hmm gcc takes a while to build
[04:12] <Pygi> Yagisan: you are wrong ^_^ release is not "finished"
[04:12] <Pygi> wanna bet there are a lot that should have gone into release, fixed or something, and it isn't there? :P
[04:12] <Pygi> if we would go that way, we would never have a release ;)
[04:13] <Yagisan> Pygi: pfft - of course a release is finished. It's I'm finished, no more is going in that version.
[04:14] <Pygi> o joy, I don't consider that to be like that, but I'll let you be ;)
[04:15] <Yagisan> Pygi: I think your lack of sleep is affecting your sense of humor
[04:15] <Pygi> Yagisan: agreed ;)
[04:15] <Yagisan> Pygi: have kids yet ?
[04:16] <Pygi> sec pls, I'll be back ASAP
[04:17] <Pygi> k, I am back
[04:17] <Pygi> nah
[04:19] <Pygi> JaneW: still here?
[04:19] <JaneW> Pygi: yep
[04:20] <Yagisan> Pygi: 3 more days without sleep, and you are ready to deal with the sleep deprivation that comes with them
[04:20] <Pygi> JaneW: do you want me to mail you log of meeting "tommorow" (at least for me), or you'll just look it up on that logs page?
[04:20] <Pygi> Yagisan: lol ^_^
[04:21] <Yagisan> mhz!
[04:22] <mhz> Yagisan: !
[04:22] <mhz> whaz up?
[04:25] <Yagisan> mhz: cleaning up my deng repo
[04:25] <Yagisan> mhz: trying to ignore crying kids
[04:25] <Yagisan> mhz: yourself ?
[04:27] <mhz> finally, finding out some stuff regarding my 128 MB CF and getting some perspective to get at least money to pay one month rent :D
[04:28] <JaneW> Pygi: yes please (re log)
[04:28] <Yagisan> mhz: hope it goes well for you. moneys tight here too now
[04:28] <JaneW> Pygi: else I donlt mind looking it up either
[04:29] <mhz> Yagisan: the CF inserted to a PCMCIA adapter is recognized as a /dev/hdc in my case
[04:29] <Pygi> JaneW: oki, I'll send the  log to you once meeting is done ^_^
[04:29] <JaneW> Pygi: ty vm
[04:29] <Pygi> JaneW: I hope we'll have some good decisions, and none bad ^_^
[04:29] <JaneW> Pygi: yes!
[04:29] <mhz> and it seems to me the CF may be damaged because it is not possible to mount it using the USB reader
[04:30] <Pygi> JaneW: I suppose we are to update cookbook for version after dapper that are yet to come, right?
[04:30] <Pygi> s/version/versions
[04:31] <JaneW> Pygi: yes, as relevant
[04:31] <JaneW> try to make it as generic as possible where you can, but obviously we'll have some version specifics
[04:31] <Pygi> JaneW: kk, but first work on this one needs to be finished ^_^ We'll get it ready for dapper I believe 
[04:32] <Pygi> JaneW: yes, ofcourse ... we can't avoid some things that are "too version specific"
[04:33] <Pygi> anyway, ogra, will you be reviewing the cookbook? ^_^
[04:33] <jsgotangco> that's nice to know that the cookbook is finally taking steam
[04:34] <Pygi> jsgotangco: yes, after so much "standing period", it's good ;)
[04:34] <Pygi> but a lot more work to be done remains ;)
[04:34] <ogra> Pygi, i plan to help writing it :)
[04:34] <jsgotangco> my apologies I wasn't that much help this cycle
[04:35] <Pygi> ogra: oh, thanks ^_^ Then I'll review your writing ^_^
[04:35] <JaneW> jsgotangco: yes spacey and Pygi have taken the reigns
[04:35] <JaneW> jsgotangco: and ably so it seems \o/
[04:35] <Pygi> :-P
[04:36] <ogra> Pygi, will be hard to review, there wont be any reference to check i'm not writing rubbish apart from the code of ltsp :)
[04:36] <ogra> so you'll have to check the scripts for all the options i write about :)
[04:36] <Pygi> ogra: bah, I know you are no writing rubbish, no worries ;) but I believe we will have to check what other people write ...
[04:37] <Pygi> ogra: that won't be a problem ... as long as it's not ruby or whitespace or some weirder language ;)
[04:37] <ogra> Pygi, i'd appreciate if someone reviews my writing ... 
[04:37] <ogra> i tend to make a lot of errors in english ...
[04:37] <Pygi> ogra: no worries ^_^
[04:37] <ogra> ask JaneW about my grammar in the flight announcements :)
[04:37] <jsgotangco> ruby isnt weird :P
[04:37] <ogra> Pygi, its shell and python 
[04:37] <JaneW> ogra: it is usually very good!
[04:37] <Pygi> jsgotangco: but whitespace is :-P
[04:38] <jsgotangco> hehe
[04:38] <Pygi> ogra: ah, shell and python are ok ^_^ I can check that out, no probs :P
[04:38] <ogra> JaneW, i remember a very odd one where nobody got what i meant :)
[04:38] <JaneW> ogra: heh
[04:38] <ogra> Pygi, its just that our ltsp is written from scratch, so all docs will be completely new ones ...
[04:39] <Pygi> ogra: ah, no problem ... we'll manage it somehow ^_^ as we always did ;)
[04:39] <ogra> sure :)
[04:40] <Pygi> ogra: but I must remember not to ask for patch inclusion anymore :-P, at least while we are in that freeze thingy ;)
[04:41] <ogra> Pygi, only during the days where we do milestone releases :)
[04:41] <ogra> edubuntu i386 install is gold btw
[04:41] <Pygi> JaneW, ogra: Can we rename the cookbook to "How to cook Edubuntu" ? preety please? ^_^
[04:41] <ogra> we can do everything we want, sure 
[04:42] <Pygi> :)
[04:42] <Pygi> we are going to get a lot of bugs report if n-m 0.6.1 doesn't work for people on flight 6
[04:43] <Pygi> and we already had so much duplicates :-/
[04:47] <Pygi> ogra: have a few minutes? I need few lections of how "Main" and updating packages there works ^_^
[04:47] <ogra> later, i'm a bit busy testing CDs now 
[04:47] <JaneW> Pygi: why?
[04:48] <Pygi> ogra: ok, sorry ^_^ enjoy testing ;)
[04:48] <JaneW> Pygi: Call it the Edubuntu Cookbook
[04:48] <JaneW> and subtitle 'How to cook with Edubuntu'
[04:48] <Pygi> JaneW: ah, ok :-P
[04:48] <JaneW> Pygi: :)
[04:50] <Pygi> joy. wpasupplicant fixed ;)
[06:30] <bobulator> ok, i reinstalled, upgraded and the server display still isn't working 
[07:39] <cbx33> Hi Bluekuja 
[07:41] <Bluekuja> hey man
[07:41] <Bluekuja> :)
[07:41] <Bluekuja> how are you?
[07:42] <cbx33> yeh good you?
[07:43] <Bluekuja> really good too 
[07:43] <cbx33> excellent
[08:38] <lns> Hey all
[08:38] <ogra> hi
[08:39] <lns> I'm not sure if there's been a bug report filed already but are you aware of a bug in dapper with gnome-applets when you do an apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade?
[08:39] <ogra> thats fixed in edubuntu-artwork 0.1.0-20 
[08:40] <lns> ok..just checking. =) thanks!
[08:40] <ogra> i guess you mean the gconf errors :)
[08:40] <lns> yep
[08:40] <lns> the line 56 file not found errors
[08:41] <ogra> https://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/37081
[08:41] <lns> in /usr/sbin/update-gconf-defaults
[08:41] <ogra> if yu see further errors with 0.1.0-20, feel free to reopen it :)
[08:41] <lns> ok, for sure. =)
[08:41] <ogra> thanks :)
[08:42] <lns> hey, thank YOU! =)
[08:42] <lns> so
[08:42] <ogra> :)
[08:42] <lns> I'm testing Dapper flight 5... got a couple qs
[08:42] <ogra> shoot
[08:42] <lns> i can't figure out where to change the default wm
[08:42] <lns> i'm sure ldm isn't finished yet
[08:43] <ogra> it is ...
[08:43] <lns> oh ok
[08:43] <lns> well i can't figure out where to change the default wm... i'm wanting to test out fluxbox since it is much less resource intensive than gnome
[08:43] <ogra> the default wm is selected systemwide through update-alternatives 
[08:43] <ogra> you need to update the alternative for x-session-manager
[08:44] <lns> ok, awesome
[08:44] <lns> thank you
[08:44] <ogra> additionally ldm starts /etc/X11/Xsession ... which for example reads ~/.xsession
[08:44] <ogra> so either do it user based with that file, or system wide with the alternatives system
[08:45] <lns> ok, jeez i never heard of update-alternatives. learn something new every day. =)
[08:45] <ogra> i'm working on a mode for ldm session selection and a config gui for the october release
[08:45] <ogra> http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/LTSPManager/
[08:46] <lns> nice!
[08:46] <lns> oooooooooOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
[08:46] <lns> looks awesome ogra
[08:47] <ogra> :)
[08:47] <lns> so i'm sure this really isn't something that we can deal with easily, but what about the gfx rendering in tuxtyping / tuxmath and such?
[08:48] <lns> they're barely useable in an ltsp env. :(
[08:48] <ogra> yep, but thats by design ...
[08:48] <ogra> the upstream developers need to rework that 
[08:48] <lns> yeah i agree
[08:48] <ogra> you cant fix it easily without conceptual changes
[08:49] <lns> have you (or anyone) tested edubuntu/ltsp in a gigabit ethernet env?
[08:49] <lns> with gigabit clients AND server that is
[08:49] <ogra> i'm not sure, i think highvoltage runs his servers with gigabit but the clients with 100M
[08:50] <lns> k...that's gonna be my env. - gbit server and 100m clients
[08:52] <ogra> should work fine
[08:53] <lns> yeah...ok dumb ltsp q: so there's 5 kids on 5 thin clients, all using openoffice
[08:53] <lns> is the memory utilization on the server for 5 full openoffice process trees?
[08:53] <ogra> nope 
[08:53] <lns> or is it shared between them
[08:54] <lns> ok
[08:54] <ogra> its partially shared and partially not ..
[08:54] <lns> =) that makes me feel better though
[08:54] <ogra> but the bigger amount is the shared one
[08:54] <lns> ok...good news again. =) i only have one client / server to test with so it's good to know it won't be that much worse with say, 10 clients probably
[08:55] <lns> but i also need more than 512mb ram on the server. ;)
[09:07] <lns> k, just requested to join the edubuntu launchpad site ( https://launchpad.net/people/edubuntu/+join ). 
[09:08] <lns> I feel all involved now ;)
[09:10] <mhz> Yagisan: wow!!11
[09:10] <mhz> \o/ \o/ \o/ Yagisan 
[09:11] <Yagisan> summary - project failed. not going in Ubuntu until cleaned up
[09:11] <lns> Sock it to em!
[09:16] <lns> ok off to test!
[09:39] <neurogeek> mhz, how is it going??
[09:40] <mhz> neurogeek: hi
[11:14] <harlock> hello
[11:14] <Pygi> hi harlock
[11:14] <Pygi> spacey: around?