[12:04] <KaiL> you had somebody, whose key didn't get saved? bug 36651 is another
[12:04] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 36651 in network-manager "Network Manager does not remember WEP key" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/36651
[12:04] <Pygi> KaiL: bah, 3 same bugs
[12:04] <Pygi> I already marked 1 as duplicate
[12:05] <Pygi> KaiL: care to find which one, and mark this one as well?
[12:05] <KaiL> maybe, it's quite anoying? ;)
[12:06] <KaiL> 36708 is j^ 
[12:07] <j^> KaiL 37071 why would one need a rescan button? NM updates the information all the time
[12:07] <KaiL> j^, 0.5 was sometimes not the fastest with that
[12:07] <KaiL> is that now fixed?
[12:07] <Pygi> you can mark it duplicate of this as well
[12:07] <Pygi> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/network-manager/+bug/35225
[12:07] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 35225 in network-manager "Wireless WEP connection ask for password when the network goes down and returns" [Normal,Confirmed]  
[12:08] <Pygi> so much duplicates
[12:09] <KaiL> bug 31286 something related?
[12:09] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 31286 in network-manager "network-manager suspend gnome-keyring problem" [Normal,Needs info]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/31286
[12:10] <Pygi> yes, related
[12:10] <Pygi> also, read this 
[12:10] <Pygi> "i have installed, but i don't know why (:P)"
[12:10] <Pygi> joy :P
[12:10] <KaiL> lol
[12:11] <mdz> LaserJock: I'm not sure what you mean?  a new package or a new version of a package?
[12:11] <KaiL> 36710 - something with patch (from j^)
[12:12] <LaserJock> mdz: new package
[12:12] <mdz> LaserJock: how can a new package be a bug fix?
[12:12] <LaserJock> mdz: we are missing a package that makes other package fail ;-)
[12:12] <mdz> LaserJock: anyway, new packages in universe/multiverse are fine with me during feature freeze
[12:13] <LaserJock> mdz: ok, ogra ok'd it but I just wanted to be clear
[12:13] <ajmitch__> mdz: that clarification would have been good to have earlier, since we've been working on the freeze assumption since UBZ
[12:13] <Pygi> KaiL: bug 37079
[12:13] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 37079 in network-manager "network-manager" [Normal,Needs info]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/37079
[12:13] <mdz> ajmitch__: I've said this to dholbach before
[12:13] <mdz> ajmitch__: as far as I'm concerned, MOTU is free to make that decision itself
[12:13] <Pygi> KaiL: also, please make sure you give comment why you changed status, especially if you reject
[12:14] <KaiL> Pygi, wpasupplicant is in main (at least for the master server)
[12:14] <j^> its right about the VPN part
[12:14] <dholbach> mdz: ok, I must have misunderstood you and taken it for "updates only"
[12:14] <Pygi> KaiL: k, will fix ^_^
[12:15] <ajmitch__> dholbach: so we use the uvf team to approve new packages as well? :)
[12:15] <j^> packages for the vpn plugins can be found at http://bootlab.org/~j/NetworkManager/
[12:15] <Pygi> Kail: do you comment why you change status? I saw you rejected one bug report
[12:15] <HrdwrBoB> j^: awesome, I've been manually restarting openvpn
[12:15] <KaiL> bug 23380 << fixed with 0.6
[12:15] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 23380 in network-manager "nm-applet doesn't provide an interface for configuring WPA networks." [Wishlist,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/23380
[12:16] <dholbach> ajmitch__: i'll be delighted, I think so, yes.
[12:16] <Pygi> KaiL: K, great 
[12:16] <ajmitch__> dholbach: great, I'll start filing bugs soon
[12:16] <ajmitch__> dholbach: some rules have to be laid down about it then
[12:17] <dholbach> right... but not tonight
[12:17] <dholbach> i'm off to bed now.... see you guys!
[12:17] <Pygi> night dholbach
[12:18] <LaserJock> dholbach: ok, so should I hold off on the upload I was going to do?
[12:18] <ajmitch__> night dholbach 
[12:18] <dholbach> LaserJock: if it was approved, go ahead
[12:18] <ogra> LaserJock, its fine ... 
[12:20] <Pygi> KaiL: we need to get rid of some bugs
[12:20] <Pygi> most are duplicates or already resolved
[12:20] <KaiL> yes
[12:21] <KaiL> and there are several "my system with totally screwn up config confuses nm"...
[12:22] <KaiL> bug 36975 I can confirm, but is it really a bug? for me the icon looks like an rj45 plug
[12:22] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 36975 in network-manager "nm-no-connection icon looks like a mouse" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/36975
[12:22] <Pygi> bah, lemme see
[12:23] <Pygi> you can confirm, but say it's not really a bug
[12:30] <KaiL> nm-applet 0.6 tells you, if the LAN is WEP or WPA while asking the PW?
[12:32] <Pygi> yup, it should
[12:35] <mroth> sladen: filed with the info you wanted attached as bug 37082
[12:35] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 37082 in hotkey-setup "thinkpad-keys not loaded on Thinkpad X60s" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/37082
[12:36] <mroth> sladen: also, is expected behavior in the current version for the BroswerForward / BrowserBack keys to be mapped to anything?
[12:39] <Pygi> KaiL: any progress? :P
[12:39] <KaiL> with what?
[12:39] <KaiL> 40 open bugs now, we startet with 45 or 48
[12:41] <Pygi> yup, I know 
[12:41] <Pygi> we solved some tho
[12:44] <Pygi> KaiL: so much new bugs coming right now
[12:44] <Pygi> bug 37084
[12:44] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 37084 in network-manager "network-manager crashes" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/37084
[12:44] <Pygi> I'll shoot myself :P
[12:45] <KaiL> ...I loke crashes without a way to reproduce them
[12:45] <KaiL> live..
[12:45] <KaiL> eh love :)
[12:46] <Pygi> :-X
[12:46] <trappist> what to do about a (confidential) security-related bug where I'm the only subscriber?
[12:47] <pitti> trappist: please subscribe ubuntu-security
[12:47] <trappist> gotcha
[12:47] <Pygi> pitti: there is a serious wpasupplicant security issue
[12:47] <trappist> is that security@ubuntu.com?
[12:47] <pitti> trappist: roughly, yes
[12:48] <trappist> thanks
[12:48] <pitti> trappist: oh, not in LP
[12:48] <trappist> doh
[12:48] <pitti> trappist: that's a valid email address, but in LP that's a team
[12:48] <pitti> ubuntu-security is the team ID
[12:48] <trappist> yeah, Ubuntu Security Team
[12:50] <trappist> so, Ubuntu Security Team is the correct team, or no?
[12:51] <crimsun> https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-security
[12:51] <Pygi> KaiL: will you shoot me, or should I shoot myself? :P
[12:51] <KaiL> for what?
[12:51] <Pygi> bah, for a lot of things ;)
[12:51] <trappist> this looks like a yes.  should ubuntu-security maybe get auto-subscribed to confidential bugs?
[12:51] <KaiL> 37070?
[12:51] <Pygi> not sleeping, people wrongly interpreting my words, etc :P
[12:52] <trappist> or is there a non-security reason to make a bug confidential?
[12:52] <Pygi> KaiL: also, look at this now 37084
[12:52] <Pygi> resolve this issue pls
[12:52] <Pygi> KaiL: this is a serious issue as well, yes ;)
[12:52] <Pygi> pitti: can you please look at 37070? that needs to be fixed ASAP
[12:52] <Pygi> or else, I'll vote not to include wpasupplicant (not that my vote counts, but still :P )
[12:53] <crimsun> um, wpasupplicant has already been promoted to main. Why wasn't this addressed prior?
[12:54] <KaiL> crimsun, to many people having syslog linked to /dev/null?
[12:54] <crimsun> KaiL: I'm referring to the security-sensitive one
[12:55] <crimsun> keep in mind I can't access #37070
[12:55] <KaiL> remembers me of some bug in breezy, which had some very had press...
[12:56] <pitti> trappist: yes, there's a Malone bug about that
[12:56] <Pygi> crimsun: because we didn't know about it or somethin' ? :-/
[12:56] <pitti> Pygi: EPERM
[12:57] <pitti> Pygi: you need to subscribe me
[12:57] <KaiL> Pygi, looking at syslog, messages and the output dpkg gives, would always be a good idea ;)
[12:57] <Pygi> pitti: I think KaiL reported 
[12:57] <Pygi> KaiL: please subscribe me and pitti to the bug
[12:58] <Pygi> KaiL: also, bug 37091 is duplicate of somethin' we had just a few moments ago it seems :-/
[12:58] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 37091 in network-manager "nm 0.6.1 crash (dapper)" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/37091
[01:00] <KaiL> same crash as 37084?
[01:01] <KaiL> j^, well, it works for 2 100Base-T-Connections here :)
[01:01] <Pygi> KaiL: yes, most probably
[01:01] <Pygi> j^: they do work, they just have issues that we need to solve
[01:02] <Pygi> we'll see if we can pull 0.6.2 for dapper
[01:02] <Pygi> can you send me your 0.6.2 on a mail?
[01:02] <Pygi> j^: send me a 0.6.2 package on a mail pls?
[01:03] <Pygi> mario dot danic at gmail dot com
[01:03] <Pygi> most probably that is my mail
[01:03] <Pygi> mail*
[01:03] <j^> Pygi http://bootlab.org/~j/NetworkManager/
[01:04] <Pygi> pitti: still here?
[01:04] <pitti> about to go to bed
[01:04] <Pygi> ah, ok, night then
[01:04] <Pygi> we'll talk later
[01:05] <Pygi> j^: I'll look into those packages ^_^
[01:05] <Pygi> I hope you are a good packager :-)
[01:06] <sivang> night pitti !
[01:06] <pitti> night everyone
[01:08] <Pygi> j^: you alive? ;)
[01:08] <KaiL> maybe that fixed some of my problems too - let's see
[01:08] <KaiL> of you you think more, it's an wpasupplicant-problem?
[01:08] <Pygi> KaiL: wpasupplicant has a lot of problems
[01:08] <Pygi> much much much more then n-m itself
[01:08] <KaiL> 37069 is here the special one..
[01:09] <Pygi> bug 37069
[01:09] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 37069 in network-manager "network-manager doesn't set WLAN-Config at all" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/37069
[01:09] <Pygi> lemme see
[01:09] <Pygi> hm :-/
[01:10] <Pygi> I don't see how can we reproduce this
[01:11] <KaiL> I can here - better than I like too :/
[01:11] <Pygi> KaiL: please post comment then
[01:11] <KaiL> that IS my system ;)
[01:11] <Pygi> ah, joy :-S
[01:11] <Pygi> sorry
[01:11] <Pygi> me sleepy :)
[01:12] <Pygi> you are dabear? ;)
[01:12] <KaiL> hm?
[01:12] <Pygi> nothing, sorry, just sleepy, and a lot of people report bugs :P
[01:13] <Pygi> KaiL: I'll look into that bug
[01:13] <Pygi> KaiL: can you please assign me to that security related bug?
[01:14] <KaiL> done
[01:14] <j^> KaiL it crashes for you too? if you have anythin other than lo in /etc/network/interfaces, can you try without that?
[01:14] <KaiL> j^, nop, no crash
[01:14] <Pygi> j^: and why don't you respond to me? :P
[01:15] <Pygi> KaiL: thanks
[01:15] <KaiL> only can't connect (which is really a bit complicate, as it doesn't set any iwconfig-values)
[01:15] <Burgwork> Seveas, nice way to "misinterpret" the words of Charlie about Nexenta there
[01:16] <j^> Pygi as good questions and i will respond
[01:16] <Pygi> j^: well, I said that I hope the packages are good ^_^
[01:16] <Pygi> j^: have you applied patches that are currently applied to official version?
[01:17] <KaiL> something off-topic: kubuntu has a tool to configure the X-Server, ubuntu doesn't even has something in universe for that?
[01:19] <ogra> Burgwork++ :)
[01:23] <j^> Pygi just look at it, and as i said before, its upstream orig + debian from 0.6.1 + hostap patch
[01:24] <KaiL> j^, as you say hostap - something for you maybe: bug 6369
[01:24] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 6369 in network-manager "Does not work with hostap driver" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/6369
[01:24] <Tonio_> j^: are you the uploader if this : http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2222
[01:24] <Tonio_> ?
[01:25] <Tonio_> hello everyone :)
[01:25] <Pygi> hi Tonio_
[01:25] <j^> Tonio_ yes
[01:25] <Tonio_> Pygi: knetworkmanager works with vpn :)
[01:25] <Tonio_> j^: same news for you :)
[01:25] <Pygi> Tonio_: congrats
[01:25] <Tonio_> Pygi: the problem is that vpn component provides lots of gtk dependancies
[01:26] <Tonio_> but anyway, that works :)
[01:26] <Tonio_> I couldn't test with vpnc, only openvpn
[01:26] <Tonio_> j^: if any help required on vpn nm packages, plz ask :)
[01:28] <KaiL> bug 37098 can not be reproduced here - somebody can?
[01:28] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 37098 in network-manager "when nm-applet quits it's space on the notification area isn't recovered" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/37098
[01:30] <j^> Tonio_ not right now, but if issues come up on revu, i might, thanks for the offer
[01:30] <Tonio_> j^: I will try to take time to revu your uploads quickly, to earn time
[01:31] <Pygi> KaiL: it can be confirmed, altought I think it's gnome-panel issue
[01:31] <KaiL> imho the icons only stay apard, if they are set to have a gap in panel config
[01:32] <KaiL> so no real bug, only some "we didn't know, that you want it to move closer"..
[01:32] <Pygi> yup
[01:37] <KaiL> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuMainInclusionQalculate that's meaned as a joke, or? ;)
[01:37] <Pygi> o joy
[01:37] <Pygi> KaiL : :P
[01:38] <KaiL> compared to that tool a TI89 is easy to understand
[01:38] <Pygi> lol
[01:40] <KaiL> bah, HTML mail :p
[01:40] <Pygi> Kail, j^: can I go to sleep now? ;)
[01:40] <Pygi> KaiL: ah, yes, I know :p
[01:41] <Pygi> a lot of people complain because of HTML :P
[01:42] <Pygi> ok, I really have to go to sleep now
[01:42] <Pygi> bye all ;)
[01:57] <dAndy> is there a guide anywhere on the correct way to rebuild mini.iso with additional kernel modules? (I got 90% there, except after Iso linux loaded and it loaded the initrd, I just got black screen)
[02:08] <jdub> mjg59: ping
[02:12] <mjg59> jdub: Hi
[02:12] <jdub> mjg59: seen this?
[02:12] <jdub> Setting up acpi-support (0.66) ...
[02:12] <jdub> Installing new version of config file /etc/acpi/prepare.sh ...
[02:12] <jdub> Installing new version of config file /etc/acpi/resume.sh ...
[02:12] <jdub> Installing new version of config file /etc/acpi/sleep.sh ...
[02:12] <jdub> Installing new version of config file /etc/init.d/acpi-support ... * Checking battery state...
[02:12] <jdub> cat: /sys/class/net/eth1/device/power/state: No such file or directory
[02:12] <jdub> /usr/share/acpi-support/state-funcs: line 10: test: : integer expression expected
[02:12] <jdub> 
[02:13] <jdub> hrm, which n-m packages are the ones to be testing atm?
[02:13] <jdub> j^'s or the ones on kubuntu.no-ip.org?
[02:13] <mjg59> jdub: Nup
[02:13] <mjg59> sladen: ^
[02:14] <jdub> mjg59: ahr - thanks
[02:14] <ogra> jdub, not 0.6.something from the archive ? 
[02:16] <jdub> ah, the no-ip ones appear to be crack, and j^'s ones appear to be 0.6.2 upgrades based on what's in the archive
[02:17] <ogra> jdub, you didnt happen to follow the automatix thread on -users today, did you ? 
[02:17] <jdub> ogra: no - anything interesting?
[02:17] <ogra> yep
[02:18] <ogra> jdub, arnieboy stepped in to the discussion through the forums gateway
[02:19] <jdub> j^: i think you need to update your packages to reflect the libnl1 -> libnl1-pre6 change
[02:20] <jdub> ooh, NetworkManager sig11s
[02:21] <ogra> jdub, https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-users/2006-March/071765.html
[02:23] <jdub> oh man
[02:23] <jdub> ogra: thanks
[02:23] <ogra> jdub, the problem is the forums portal 
[02:23] <ogra> we wouldnt be able to lock out arnieboy
[02:23] <jdub> that is not the problem :-)
[02:24] <ogra> nomeata, indeed
[02:24] <ogra> grmbl
[02:24] <ogra> no indeed
[02:24] <ogra> but its an additional one as long as the myth "the CoC doesnt matter for the forums" goes round
[02:24] <hendry> is there a known issue with X in dapper? my X screen is garbled
[02:25] <ogra> hendry, not here and not on my 2 testinstalls i did today
[02:26] <ogra> (ati on ppc and nvidia on amd64, both with free drivers)
[02:26] <hendry> my other machine is a pretty generic T30
[02:26] <hendry> oh well, i'll look the logs
[02:28] <Amaranth> do you have the ubuntu4 xserver-xorg-driver-ati package?
[02:47] <j^> jdub uploaded new build against libnl1-pre6 
[02:52] <jdub> from n-m in main:
[02:52] <jdub> 
[02:52] <jdub> Mar 29 11:51:53 localhost NetworkManager: <information>^Istarting...
[02:52] <jdub> Mar 29 11:51:54 localhost NetworkManager: <WARNING>^I main (): nm_data_new: Setting up dbus filter
[02:52] <jdub> Mar 29 11:51:54 localhost NetworkManager: <WARNING>^I nm_signal_handler (): Caught signal 11.  Generating backtrace...
[02:52] <jdub> Mar 29 11:51:54 localhost NetworkManager: ******************* START **********************************
[02:52] <jdub> Mar 29 11:51:54 localhost NetworkManager: (no debugging symbols found)
[02:52] <jdub> Mar 29 11:51:54 localhost NetworkManager: Using host libthread_db library "/lib/tls/i686/cmov/libthread_db.so.1".
[02:52] <jdub> Mar 29 11:51:54 localhost NetworkManager: (no debugging symbols found)
[02:52] <jdub> Mar 29 11:51:54 localhost last message repeated 5 times
[02:52] <jdub> Mar 29 11:51:54 localhost NetworkManager: [Thread debugging using libthread_db enabled] 
[02:52] <jdub> Mar 29 11:51:54 localhost NetworkManager: [New Thread -1211435328 (LWP 8526)] 
[02:53] <jdub> Mar 29 11:51:54 localhost NetworkManager: (no debugging symbols found)
[02:53] <jdub> Mar 29 11:51:54 localhost NetworkManager: (no debugging symbols found)
[02:53] <jdub> Mar 29 11:51:54 localhost NetworkManager:
[02:53] <jdub> Mar 29 11:51:54 localhost NetworkManager: (no debugging symbols found)
[02:53] <jdub> Mar 29 11:51:54 localhost last message repeated 7 times
[02:53] <jdub> Mar 29 11:51:54 localhost NetworkManager: 0xffffe410 in __kernel_vsyscall ()
[02:53] <jdub> Mar 29 11:51:54 localhost NetworkManager: ******************* END **********************************
[02:53] <jdub> 
[02:53] <jdub> ^ full of awesome
[02:53] <infinity> Pretty awesome that is auto-backtraces itself.
[02:53] <infinity> Shame that it's such a useless trace.
[03:02] <jdub> i might build n-m with debug
[03:02] <jdub> symbols
[03:05] <infinity> s/reboot/reboots/
[03:05] <HrdwrBoB> I'm not sure if network manager ate my mpi350
[03:05] <HrdwrBoB> or if the drivers are broken, but it's .. not working very well
[03:06] <crimsun> if you have no problems using wpasupplicant directly, then it's more than likely n-m
[03:07] <jdub> testing n-m on my laptop is pretty pointless anyway, because it has an atheros blob on it
[03:07] <jdub> (which doesn't let you maintain a connnection and scan at the same time)
[03:08] <jdub> what's the DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS thing to keep debug symbols? just debug?
[03:09] <crimsun> nostrip
[03:09] <HrdwrBoB> crimsun: mp ot
[03:09] <HrdwrBoB> s kist we[
[03:09] <HrdwrBoB> er it's just WEP
[03:09] <HrdwrBoB> works perfectly on an unencrypted network
[03:11] <HrdwrBoB> http://kaos.vicnet.net.au/dmesg.txt
[03:14] <jdub> http://ubuntu.pastebin.com/627963
[03:14] <jdub> ^ uh. gee, thanks!
[03:14] <Amaranth> canonical hosts the forums?
[03:16] <infinity> Score!
[03:16] <infinity> Mar 29 12:14:48 localhost NetworkManager: <WARNING>^I nm_dbus_get_network_data_cb (): nm-dbus-nmi.c:404 (nm_dbus_get_network_data_cb): a message argument (trusted) was invalid.
[03:16] <infinity> And then nm-applet tells me there are no valid devices.
[03:16] <infinity> (This was after NM logged about finding and controlling both my devices)
[03:16] <infinity> Rck.
[03:16] <infinity> Rock, too.
[03:22] <infinity> Hrm, my machine got a lot more orange again.
[03:26] <Burgwork> jdub, should I move the wikipedia article from Ubuntu Linux to Ubuntu (Linux)?
[03:27] <jdub> Burgwork: that'd be really cool :)
[03:27] <Burgwork> jdub, will do
[03:33] <Burgwork> jdub, can you ping henrik to get him to change the page name to Ubuntu, not Ubuntu Linux?
[03:35] <jdub> Burgwork: that might not be done for SEO reasons
[03:38] <Burgwork> jdub, can it be "Ubuntu - Linux for Human Beings"?
[03:39] <jdub> Burgwork: possibly
[03:39] <`anthony> jdub: or call it "Ubuntu Linux <font color="white">Linux Redhat Gentoo Linux Linux Linux</font>" for SEO reasons?
[03:50] <Burgwork> ok, cleaned up wikipedia
[04:05] <OgMaciel> jdub, excuse me... do you have 1 minute, please?
[04:48] <infinity> Riddell: Around?
[04:49] <Riddell> infinity: hi
[04:49] <infinity> Riddell: Did you look at the debtags FTBFS?
[04:49] <yves> hmm is python-support borked?
[04:49] <infinity> (Yes, I know you've been busy clogging up the buildds with a new KDE version)
[04:51] <Riddell> infinity: I did, it'll need a copy of libapt-front to be included with debtags
[04:51] <Riddell> since debtags and adept don't currently use the same version
[04:51] <infinity> The debtags version in Debian won't work with it?
[04:52] <Riddell> no, it needs libapt-front 0.3.8
[04:52] <infinity> Statically linking in another copy if libapt-front sound like the Wrong Solution.
[04:52] <Riddell> and adept needs 0.3.7
[04:52] <Riddell> liapt-front is a static library only anyway
[04:54] <infinity> I take it that porting adept to libapt-fron 0.3.8 is too much effort?
[04:55] <Riddell> it breaks feature freeze
[04:56] <Riddell> and upsets the adept development cycle, which is all planned (and bountied)
[04:56] <infinity> Fair enough.
[04:56] <infinity> Then whatever needs to be done to get debtags happy (as long as it still work with the rest of the world, however it's meant to) is fine by me.
[04:58] <Riddell> I'll take a look at it when I wake up
[04:59] <Riddell> by which time hopefully you'll have poked all of KDE to compile :)
[05:00] <infinity> It looks to be going well this time around, so it should be okay..
[05:01] <infinity> Anything in here that will be binary NEW?
[05:01] <Riddell> nope
[05:01] <infinity> Then if it's all buildable, it should be smooth sailing.
[05:02] <infinity> Hrm, qt-x11-free is stuck in NEW.
[05:02] <infinity> And kerry.
[05:04] <infinity> qt-x11-free-dbg is NEW.
[05:05] <Riddell> ah yes, there is that
[05:05] <Riddell> kerry is a MOTU job, kamion was waiting on them uploading a FHS compliant version which they should have now
[05:06] <infinity> Kay, the -dbg package should head to universe for now, I assume?
[05:06] <bddebian> qt-x11-free SUCKS.. :-(
[05:07] <infinity> Riddell: ?
[05:07] <Riddell> yes, universe is fine
[05:07] <infinity> Alrightr.  Doing.
[05:08] <Riddell> bddebian: why?
[05:09] <bddebian> Riddell: PATH_MAX :-)
[05:09] <Riddell> qmake is interesting
[05:10] <bddebian> I have been fighting with qt-x11-free on and off for months for GNU/Hurd for shit I know will never get in Debian anyway :-(
[05:12] <slomo__> bddebian: what's the problem with PATH_MAX on hurd?
[05:12] <ajmitch__> slomo__: there is none
[05:12] <ajmitch__> ie, no PATH_MAX
[05:13] <bddebian> slomo__: We don't define it because theoritically we have no limit
[05:13] <bddebian> Same for MAXHOSTNAMELEN
[05:13] <ajmitch__> not that it really matters for us until some crazy person decides to make an ubuntu gnu/hurd
[05:13] <slomo__> bddebian: why don't you just define them to be the same as INT_MAX somewhere as a workaround?
[05:14] <bddebian> slomo__: It's not my call in Debian.  If I make an Ubuntu/Hurd I will define them all and use a true /usr dir
[05:18] <slomo__> fabbione: hi... i'm currently testing mono 1.1.13.6. would you mind porting the sparc patches to 1.1.13.6 when it's working fine and get a UVF exception? one doesn't apply cleanly... and do you have any patches pending?
[05:28] <infinity> slomo__: How not cleanly are we talking? :)
[05:29] <infinity> slomo__: Since Fabio's not around, I can help you get the patches ported.
[05:29] <infinity> slomo__: (Assuming you think the UVF exception will be granted)
[05:29] <slomo__> infinity: 2/3 hunks rejected in one of the 4 patches he added
[05:30] <infinity> slomo__: Sure, but did you look at the rejects?  Probably just a tiny bit of broken context.
[05:30] <slomo__> infinity: and i think the UVF exception will be granted as it's a bugfix-only release
[05:30] <infinity> slomo__: If you give me your current test packages, I can quickly forward-port the patches.
[05:30] <slomo__> infinity: not yet, i'll do it after some testing... and ping you when i can't get it done myself :)
[05:31] <infinity> slomo__: Kay.
[05:33] <trappist> I just read a blog complaining about the lack of out-of-the-box mp3 support in ubuntu and that only artsplay would play mp3s.  I verified that it does on my box, compiled with --disable-libmad, but I have libmad etc. installed. 
[05:33] <HrdwrBoB> there's no outofthebox mp3 support in any distribution
[05:34] <trappist> HrdwrBoB: there's not supposed to be, but at first glance it looks like artsplay might accidentally support it out of the box.
[05:38] <HrdwrBoB> yeah
[06:02] <slomo__> infinity, fabbione: looks good, the rejected patches were applied upstream... infinity, could you run a testbuild on sparc?
[06:02] <slomo__> infinity: http://go-mono.com/sources/mono-1.1/mono-1.1.13.6.tar.gz http://slomosnail.de/~slomo/temp/mono_1.1.13.6-0ubuntu1.diff.gz http://slomosnail.de/~slomo/temp/mono_1.1.13.6-0ubuntu1.dsc
[06:05] <infinity> slomo__: Remind me again after all the kde backlog is done building. :)
[06:05] <slomo__> infinity: ok :)
[06:34] <bur[n] er> I have a small request of anyone with website control... could someone make bugs.ubuntu.org and bugs.ubuntu.com point to https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu?  It's tricky to find bug reporting when most are used to bugs.gnome.org bugs.xfce.org bugs.mozilla.org bugs.debian.org bugs.kde.org etc. etc.
[06:35] <bur[n] er> I couldn't find where to "bug report" this to in launchpad, so I figured I'd try here since it's an easy fix
[06:36] <Burgundavia> bur[n] er: can you email henrik@canonical.com ?
[06:36] <infinity> bur[n] er: Not really a launchpad bug anyway, since LP doesn't control the ubuntu DNS.
[06:36] <bur[n] er> gotcha... I'll email that person, thanks
[06:55] <freeflying> bug3 35758
[06:55] <freeflying> bugs 35758
[06:55] <freeflying> bugs #35758
[06:56] <infinity> s/s//
[06:57] <freeflying> bug #35758
[06:57] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 35758 in xinit "startx leaks .serverauth.???? files" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/35758
[06:57] <freeflying> infinity: thx
[08:30] <wasabi> Dapper update results in Begin: Waiting for root filesystem on boot... =/
[08:32] <wasabi> Never happened, timeout, drop to busybox
[08:33] <wasabi> init-premount looks silly.
[08:33] <wasabi> what happened to this?
[08:34] <infinity> That logic got removed from udev and moved to init-premount.
[08:34] <infinity> In theory, it works better.
[08:34] <infinity> For everyone except you.
[08:34] <wasabi> Well it does't look like it takes into consideration evms
[08:35] <wasabi> I don't suppose anybody has considered explicitly passing the driver as a kernel arg? heh.
[08:35] <wasabi> Sounds "easier".
[08:35] <infinity> Err, s/init-premount/local/ even.
[08:36] <wasabi> I think I'm timeing out in scripts/init-premount
[08:36] <wasabi> In the SCSI case...
[08:36] <Rotund> Has anyone considered putting a "failsafe" xorg.conf in case GDM doesn't come up correctly?
[08:36] <wasabi> init-premount/udev I mean
[08:36] <infinity> wasabi: init-premount/udev doesn't have that "Waiting for root filesystem" stuff anymore...
[08:37] <infinity> wasabi: If yours does, you need to upgrade again.
[08:37] <wasabi> Hmm. I might be slightly out of date.
[08:37] <insites> what is the desired behavior of mounting fat32 and ntfs partitions these days? should they be automounted? and if not and they are mounted using disks-admin should the mountpoint "stick" through a restart?
[08:37] <wasabi> Hey so, I just came up with the "pass drivers as kernel args" idea... and it sounds pretty decent.
[08:38] <wasabi> Or something. =/
[08:38] <wasabi> I've seen at least 100 different "lets auto detect the root device driver" hacks pass thru initramfs it seems
[08:40] <wasabi> I see. Could be timing out simply because evms is missing.
[08:46] <pitti> Good morning
[08:46] <Rotund> wasabi: The evms does take quite a while to startup
[08:48] <desrt> funny you should say
[08:48] <wasabi> looks like evms-activate wasn't being called.
[08:49] <wasabi> I am guessing, though i am probably wrong...
[08:49] <wasabi> evms has no prereq for udev
[08:49] <wasabi> lvm and md do...
[08:51] <wasabi> yup that was it.
[08:51] <wasabi> local-top/evms needs a prereq on udev
[08:51] <wasabi> evms gets called first, fails as there are no devices, then the devices appear!
[08:57] <pitti> infinity: imlib2 porting> not so far
[08:58] <pitti> I just asked him whether it was possible
[08:58] <infinity> Ahh, kay.
[08:58] <infinity> I think he tried, but failed. :)
[08:58] <infinity> (Well, "tried", by changing the includes, and it FTBFSd)
[08:59] <infinity> Anyhow, it'll need some serious API porting, I think, to make it happen, which is a shame, cause it's the only thing holding imlib in main.
[08:59] <pitti> infinity: do you have any opinion about php-sqlite?
[09:02] <infinity> pitti: Yeah, my opinion is that I should break it out of the tree, build a php5-sqlite (that still uses sqlite0) and send that to universe, and build php5-sqlite3 for main.
[09:02] <infinity> pitti: Just need to find a bit of time to make that change.
[09:04] <infinity> pitti: Will have to be after Flight-6, probably, since I have much "is the archive buildable and installable?" and "Hey, the livefs stuff is kinda goofy right now" stuff to sort.
[09:06] <pitti> infinity: sounds good; also, I'll try to get rid of gtk1.2 with seb
[09:06] <infinity> And launchpad has stopped talking to me.  Feh.
[09:07] <infinity> Ahh, there we go.
[09:10] <Burgundavia> I need an apt expert, to vet a paragraph I am writing
[09:10] <infinity> How expert?
[09:11] <infinity> Most of us should be expert enough, unless you need mvo's internal knowlege of the scary C++.
[09:11] <Burgundavia> not mvo expert, but familiar with most of what it does
[09:14] <Burgundavia> infinity: can you receive messages?
[09:19] <wasabi_> man, caching mime types in xattrs does not seem like a bad idea, to me. 
[09:19] <desrt> wasabi_; do not hold your breath
[09:19] <wasabi_> What the hell is keeping it?
[09:19] <desrt> lack of attention and alex saying that it's a bad idea
[09:19] <desrt> someone told him that doing an xattr lookup takes a long time
[09:19] <wasabi_> It makes perfect sense for me for mime types to be saved from the browser too.
[09:19] <desrt> (which is insane, of course, if you compare with (for example) content sniffing)
[09:19] <desrt> ya.  i mention that in my report, i think :)
[09:20] <wasabi_> browser gets image/jpeg from server, should save in xattr.
[09:20] <wasabi_> Should just be a basis. A test can still happen.
[09:20] <spacey> its probably best to properly check the content at least once
[09:21] <desrt> heh
[09:21] <spacey> not really trustworthy what the browser gets:p
[09:21] <desrt> i filed the bug in 2003
[09:21] <wasabi_> I dunno. I think it's perfectly reasonble for the type to be seperate from the contents.
[09:21] <desrt> http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=129792
[09:21] <wasabi_> Weither it's trustworthy or not.
[09:21] <kagou> hi
[09:21] <Ubugtu> Gnome bug 129792 in MIME and file/program mapping "linux extended attributes support for gnomevfs mime types" [Enhancement,New]  
[09:21] <wasabi_> heh
[09:22] <wasabi_> the sniffing is just icing on the cake.
[09:22] <wasabi_> and for fixing stuff where the type doesn't move properly.
[09:22] <wasabi_> but two gnome users, emailing a file to each other? Pssh.
[09:23] <wasabi_> me->bed
[09:23] <desrt> really, gnome user receiving mail from anyone
[09:24] <wasabi_> sure, but it's of course obvious that not all files come with the right mime type
[09:26] <infinity> Images are infamous for having incorrect mime-types from a web server.
[09:26] <carlos> pitti: hi, did you have time to test the languagepacks?
[09:26] <pitti> hm, is it just me, or is LP slooooooow ATM?
[09:26] <pitti> carlos: I didn't so far; if they are good now, I'll happily take a look at them
[09:27] <ajmitch> pitti: yeah, something is wrong
[09:27] <carlos> pitti: still have problems with the exported .pot files and we are missing kde.
[09:27] <spacey> gnome didn' like my latest dapper update, brb
[09:28] <carlos> pitti: just test it when you have sometime, don't worry. Just want to be sure we don't miss anything before you need to use them :-P
[09:30] <pitti> carlos: no problem, I can throw your tarball on top of mine, so that we have KDE
[09:30] <pitti> carlos: how many non-KDE packages were imported so far?
[09:30] <carlos> doko: openoffice.org is still being imported... it's taking more than 16 hours to get it imported... wow
[09:31] <carlos> pitti: I think most of them are already imported
[09:31] <carlos> perhaps I need to do some manually imports to have a full import, but KDE's .po files were just imported and we got 35000 new entries....
[09:32] <carlos> I need to finish the special handling of KDE language packs to import them automatically before I can check that all entries are imported now
[09:33] <Treenaks> can't the KDE langpacks get their own -changes list? ;)
[09:35] <desrt> pitti; hear about hal's solution to the spawn-privileged-processes problem?
[09:35] <desrt> davidz wrote a kernel module... it exports a character device that when you open it and write a magic string to it it changes the euid of the current process to 0
[09:36] <desrt> the idea is that hal can run as a normal user and when it needs to do a callout it forks, the child opens and writes to this device and then execs what it needs to
[09:36] <desrt> pretty spiffy
[09:36] <ajmitch> sounds crackful
[09:37] <mjg59> Why not just have a suid helper?
[09:37] <pitti> desrt: what's wrong with the current hal-runner daemon?
[09:37] <desrt> sigh.
[09:37] <desrt> nobody understands my jokes :(
[09:38] <pitti> :)
[09:38] <mjg59> Your jokes need a kernel helper
[09:38] <ajmitch> desrt: the problem is it's all too possible :)
[09:38] <desrt> pitti; i guess you've come to expect a certain behaviour from the hal devs... :)
[09:38] <pitti> desrt: well, that would have been yet another level
[09:39] <pitti> desrt: but it's not so far fetched; look at CAP_SETPCAP and what jack wants to do with it :)
[09:39] <desrt> the device would be called /dev/beanstalk :)
[09:40] <desrt> what is SETPCAP?
[09:40] <desrt> the capability that allows a process to change its own capabilities?
[09:40] <pitti> desrt: it allows processes to raise the caps of other processes
[09:40] <desrt> that makes a lot of sense
[09:40] <pitti> no, it doesn't :)
[09:41] <desrt> explain to me why we have a CAPS system at all
[09:41] <desrt> afaik, in your average linux install, they're all basically just hardwired to the predicate (uid==0)
[09:41] <pitti> desrt: more fine grained privileges
[09:42] <pitti> desrt: no, to the contrary
[09:42] <pitti> desrt: the kernel (almost?) never checks the uid any more
[09:42] <pitti> just capabilities
[09:42] <desrt> i know
[09:42] <desrt> but the caps themselves are as follows:
[09:42] <desrt> root: has all caps
[09:42] <pitti> desrt: i. e. we can have our dhcp client running as normal user with just CAP_NET_ADMIN
[09:42] <desrt> everyone else: nothing
[09:42] <desrt> how does it get that?
[09:42] <mjg59> desrt: There's no good way to grant specific privileges to processes, but it's uesful for dropping all unneeded privileges
[09:43] <pitti> desrt: or, in warty, hal was a normal user with CAP_NET_RAW (or so), so that it could do link detection on ethernet cards
[09:43] <desrt> right.  how do i give caps to processes? (serious question - i'd like to know)
[09:44] <pitti> desrt: prctl( PR_SET_KEEPCAPS, 1, 0, 0, 0 ); setgid(); setuid(); cap_set_proc()
[09:44] <pitti> desrt: the first one will not drop your caps on setuid
[09:44] <desrt> that's pretty nice
[09:44] <pitti> desrt: and after switching to the low-priv user, you drop all caps you don't need
[09:44] <desrt> well, actually, it has a very very evil race
[09:44] <pitti> desrt: download the dhcp3 sources and look at debian/patches/droppriv.dpatch
[09:45] <pitti> desrt: it has a generic drop_privileges(user, group, caps) function
[09:45] <desrt> between the point of setuid() and cap_set_proc() it's ptraceable by other processes of the same uid
[09:45] <desrt> and has full caps
[09:45] <pitti> desrt: no, it's not
[09:45] <pitti> desrt: the kernel doesn't allow you to ptrace processes with nonzero caps
[09:45] <desrt> oh.  sweet :)
[09:46] <pitti> desrt: some Unixes even go further - they have kind of a 'pink bit' in the proces
[09:46] <pitti> so that you can't even trace processes which *ever* had root
[09:46] <pitti> and just keep an open fd to a privileged file
[09:46] <pitti> no idea whether linux does that as well
[09:46] <desrt> well
[09:46] <desrt> if a process has priv
[09:46] <desrt> ... hmm, actually
[09:47] <desrt> it's totally sane to say "keep priv that i need to open this file and drop it as soon as i can"
[09:47] <desrt> openvpn does this for /dev/tun
[09:48] <pitti> yep, some hal helpers do that as well
[09:48] <pitti> desrt: or the dhcp server - start as root, open priv'ed port, drop to normal user
[09:49] <Burgundavia> pitti: how crackful is pygame?
[09:49] <pitti> dhcpd@donald:~$ gdb /usr/sbin/dhcpd3 5610
[09:49] <pitti> Attaching to program: /usr/sbin/dhcpd3, process 5610
[09:49] <pitti> ptrace: Operation not permitted.
[09:49] <pitti> desrt: yay ^ pink bit :)
[09:50] <desrt> i'm afraid i don't get it
[09:50] <desrt> every process on earth used to be root
[09:51] <desrt> "was owned by a non-zero uid at time of fork()" is no measure
[09:51] <pitti> desrt: not after my derooting rave in the warty time :)
[09:51] <desrt> nor "exec"
[09:52] <desrt> since you can have fds live across execs
[09:52] <ajmitch> which really can be a bad thing
[09:53] <pitti> desrt: of course, we can't deprive processes of the privs they actually need :)
[09:53] <pitti> desrt: *of course* you can send bad dhcp responses to other clients if you manage to break the dhcp server
[09:53] <pitti> desrt: likewise you can spam /var/log/kern.log if you break klogd
[09:54] <pitti> desrt: the point is that you can't do anything else
[09:55] <pitti> desrt: 'ta'?
[09:55] <desrt> teaching assistant
[09:55] <pitti> ?
[09:55] <desrt> i'm a ta in a course right now... i teach, create the assignments, etc
[09:55] <desrt> the other ta marks the assignments
[09:56] <desrt> i don't like his marking very much
[09:56] <neuralis> desrt: what class?
[09:56] <desrt> x86 assembly language
[09:56] <desrt> oldschool style
[09:56] <pitti> brb, I need to restart my X
[09:56] <neuralis> desrt: neat.
[09:56] <ajmitch> pitti: I remember a RH dev telling about how bad things could happen when dhclient inherited or didn't close fds properly
[09:56] <ajmitch> since the scripts it ran also get those fds
[09:56] <pitti> ajmitch: our's can't be worse than anyone else's which run as root, can it?
[09:57] <infinity> Kamion: Around?
[09:57] <ajmitch> only found when they caught it via selinux :)
[09:57] <neuralis> desrt: where is this, if you don't mind me asking?
[09:57] <desrt> neuralis; mcmaster university
[09:58] <desrt> neuralis; hamilton, ontario
[09:58] <neuralis> desrt: cool. not many universities (still) offer low-level programming classes, sadly.
[09:59] <desrt> i have a riot teaching it
[09:59] <desrt> it's really oldschool stuff.
[10:00] <desrt> like TSRs and modifying the realmode IVT to install the IRQ handler for your hardware driver
[10:02] <neuralis> desrt: +1. if more places taught things like assembly, maybe we'd be graduating fewer java monkeys who call themselves programmers.
[10:02] <desrt> i can only assume this is a screencast?
[10:02] <desrt> 120megs and still downloading....
[10:07] <Simira> huh. Didn't Mithrandir realize he's offline yet?
[10:09] <desrt> neuralis; heh.  if they were even _good_ at java, i'd be happy
[10:14] <spacey> ah i lost all my epiphany bookmarks+settings (after an crash and an upgrade)
[10:20] <Mithrandir> Fjodor: Kristen, not Christer.
[10:21] <Fjodor> Sorry
[10:21] <Fjodor> But you did know of whom I spoke :-)
[10:22] <Simira> oh, he's Danish...
[10:22] <Fjodor> Norwegian
[10:22] <Simira> I am bored... I suppose noone here knows TikiWiki exceptionally well...?
[10:23] <Simira> Fjodor: I was talking about you ;)
[10:23] <Fjodor> Ah :-)
[10:23] <Fjodor> Very much so, yes
[10:24] <Simira> ogra: did you just volunteer? :)
[10:24] <dholbach> hellas!
[10:24] <Simira> dholbach: what, are you reading HP in Greek now?
[10:25] <ogra> Simira, TiddlyWiki != TikiWiki :)
[10:25] <Simira> ogra: sorry, I misready
[10:25] <dholbach> Simira: not really... :-)
[10:25] <Simira> dholbach: not yet, you mean?
[10:25] <Simira> ;)
[10:25] <robitaille> humm...the recent network-manager upgrade on Dapper has killed my wireless...
[10:25] <Simira> hm, I have a meeting. Hurrah.
[10:26] <dholbach> yeah, probably... I really need to visit greece again
[10:26] <Simira> I'd like to go there too... only been to Cyprus
[10:26] <Mithrandir> UI sprint is over now, isn't it?
[10:27] <mvo> Mithrandir: oh yes :)
[10:27] <dholbach> heya seb128
[10:27] <Simira> was that in Greece?
[10:27] <seb128> hi dholbach
[10:27] <Simira> morning seb
[10:28] <dholbach> Simira: unfortunately not, it was in London
[10:28] <seb128> hi Simira
[10:28] <dholbach> I'd be all for Greece :)
[10:28] <Simira> dholbach: I like London :D
[10:28] <dholbach> ... in the rain
[10:28] <Simira> Greece in June would be nice :)
[10:28] <Simira> but... meeting. 
[10:33] <Mithrandir> ogra: can you please get edubuntu live (including espresso) and install cds tested?
[10:33] <Mithrandir> Riddell: can you please get kubuntu live (including espresso) and install cds tested?
[10:34] <ogra> Mithrandir, sure, give me 1h :)
[10:36] <janimo> Kamion, besides promoting xubuntu-meta to main is there anything else needed before building CDs?
[10:36] <slomo> infinity: do you have some time to testbuild mono on sparc now? at least the sparc buildds are idle now :)
[10:37] <sivang> morning all
[10:37] <pitti> hi sivang
[10:37] <infinity> janimo: Does xubuntu-live stand a hope of working?  If so, I can set up livefs builds for you in a few days.
[10:37] <sivang> hey pitti
[10:38] <infinity> slomo: Sure, point me at the source again.
[10:38] <janimo> infinity: had not give the live seeds as much care as the desktop one
[10:38] <janimo> but I will once install CDs are out
[10:38] <janimo> in theory it should work :)
[10:38] <janimo> thanks 
[10:38] <slomo> infinity: http://go-mono.com/sources/mono-1.1/mono-1.1.13.6.tar.gz http://slomosnail.de/~slomo/temp/mono_1.1.13.6-0ubuntu1.diff.gz http://slomosnail.de/~slomo/temp/mono_1.1.13.6-0ubuntu1.dsc
[10:40] <infinity> slomo: Looking for testsuite regressions when you're doing test builds (not that the debian build doesn't run the testsuite, cause it takes FOREVER), or are you just checking that it builds?
[10:40] <infinity> s/not/note/
[10:41] <slomo> infinity: just test that it builds... for sparc there are still some issues left with the testsuite according to fabbione iirc
[10:42] <slomo> infinity: but i tested it here with a bunch of applications, not with the test suite... but that's a good idea ;)
[10:42] <infinity> slomo: Very few issues, mind you, and I have the output from the last testsuite run. :)
[10:43] <slomo> infinity: ok :) would be nice if you have some time to run the testsuite as well and look for regressions
[10:44] <infinity> Mithrandir: And "added network-manager-gnome"
[10:44] <infinity> Mithrandir: I assume.
[10:45] <Mithrandir> yup
[10:45] <infinity> Then yes, it's correct. :)
[10:45] <Kamion> infinity: hi
[10:45] <Kamion> Mithrandir: Kubuntu needs an espresso upload
[10:45] <infinity> Kamion: Hey.  No idea why I was poking you.
[10:45] <Kamion> but I have something else I'm trying to sort out first, ideally
[10:45] <Kamion> janimo: don't think there's anything else
[10:45] <Mithrandir> Kamion: ok.  Any ETA on it?
[10:46] <Mithrandir> Kamion: also, can you please disable daily builds of cd images?
[10:46] <janimo> Kamion: ok. xubuntu-meta is build now with only main deps
[10:46] <janimo> built
[10:46] <Kamion> Mithrandir: hopefully next hour or so
[10:46] <Kamion> well, on source upload anyway
[10:47] <Mithrandir> Kamion: ok, I need to do an ubuntu-meta upload for the nm stuff anyway, so an hour more or less won't mean that much.
[10:48] <Kamion> Mithrandir: /home/ubuntu/Desktop/ seems to be root-owned on the live CD
[10:48] <Kamion> I thought we fixed that?
[10:48] <Kamion> otherwise, probably need a casper upload ...
[10:50] <infinity> Argh.  The part where NetworkManager appears to segv isn't good either.
[10:55] <Kamion> Mithrandir: daily builds> done (you can do that yourself, BTW, the crontab is owned by cdimage)
[10:56] <Mithrandir> Kamion: oh, ok.
[10:56] <Mithrandir> (thanks)
[11:01] <infinity> Mithrandir: livefs dailies disabled now too.
[11:01] <Mithrandir> infinity: thanks
[11:02] <infinity> Mithrandir: I don't recommend building ports-live.  hppa and sparc still aren't set up, and weddell (ia64) is about to -ENOSPACE, because it just loves me SOO much.
[11:03] <infinity> Mithrandir: The three release arches all look good to go, though.
[11:04] <infinity> Mithrandir: Doing one ports run for install (to match whatever you happen to release for non-ports) might be nice, though.
[11:04] <Mithrandir> infinity: is there anybody who are able to test the ports?
[11:04] <infinity> Mithrandir: Likely not, but then again, you won't include them in your release announcement either.
[11:05] <infinity> Mithrandir: Would just be nice to have a matching snapshot of "this is when we think the archive might not have sucked" to later test on sparc/hppa/ia64 boxen.
[11:05] <Mithrandir> infinity: agreed
[11:07] <infinity> It'll also be a couple more archive cycles for Riddell's KDE uploads to all settle again, so if he wants fresh Kubuntu Flight-6 love, there's a few hours to wait there, I'd guess.
[11:07] <infinity> Oh, actually.  I lie.
[11:08] <infinity> KDE should be fully up to date on all release arches as of now.  So any fresh kubuntu build will be good.
[11:08] <infinity> (Lagging on ports still, that's all)
[11:08] <sladen> mjg59: ta
[11:09] <Kamion> grr. I hate everything.
[11:09] <janimo> Mithrandir: should uploads be puton hold until flight 6 is out?
[11:10] <janimo> this time I upload to main so it matters more that last time
[11:10] <Kamion> janimo: uploads to main should be coordinated with Mithrandir and infinity
[11:10] <Mithrandir> janimo: to main, yes, unless it's something you want into flight-6 in which case ask infinity or me (with a diff)
[11:11] <janimo> Mithrandir: I have nothing for flight 6 I just remembered from last time
[11:11] <Mithrandir> janimo: yup, thanks.
[11:11] <infinity> s/and infinity// unless this is still going on when I wake up tomorrow.
[11:11] <janimo> and saw no announcement requesting hold on the list
[11:12] <infinity> I wonder if I'm sober enough to debug why NM is segfaulting on my system...
[11:14] <infinity> slomo: Your mono build is FTBFS on sparc.
[11:15] <slomo> infinity: nice... can you paste it somewhere?
[11:15] <infinity> slomo: I'll re-run it and actually save the log this time for you. :)
[11:16] <Mithrandir> Kamion: how did you disable the daily runs?  etc/crontab on little shows the entries as uncommented?
[11:17] <Kamion> Mithrandir: crontab -e
[11:17] <Kamion> I generally leave etc/crontab as the reference version
[11:18] <infinity> This is where Mithrandir discovers he can "sudo su - cdimage" :)
[11:18] <Mithrandir> infinity: indeed. :-)
[11:18] <Mithrandir> infinity: given that nobody told me this before. :-P
[11:18] <Kamion> heh, oops
[11:19] <sladen> jdub: do you have an Asus laptop?
[11:19] <infinity> Typical elmoism.  I nervously "sudo -l" on any host I have access to, to see what users I can su to. :)
[11:19] <infinity> It's almost as muscle memory as typing "ls -l" randomly for no good reason.
[11:20] <janimo> Mithrandir: now that Kamion promoted  xubuntu-meta I may want something in Flight 6 ;) but I assume you're busy so it can wait after that
[11:20] <infinity> janimo: You may have to wait in line, but if Mithrandir manages to get Ubuntu Flight-6 out today, I can work with you tomorrow on a Xubuntu Flight.
[11:20] <janimo> infinity: great! thanks
[11:21] <ogra> GAH+
[11:21] <ogra> Mithrandir, do you know how old my live image is ?
[11:21] <Kamion> ogra: http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/liveLogs/
[11:21] <ogra> infinity, ^^^ ?
[11:21] <infinity> ogra: Which arch?
[11:21] <ogra> amd64
[11:21] <Kamion> look for yourself :-)
[11:21] <infinity> They should all be pretty up to date.
[11:22] <ogra> its outdated a week or so
[11:22] <pitti> dholbach: I hacked a braindead, but working 'syncpackage.py' script and would like to do some universe syncs which also involve new upstream versions; can I do them if I make sure that they are sane?
[11:22] <infinity> The only arch failing is ia64, IIRC.
[11:22] <ogra> i have old artwork ...
[11:22] <ogra> hrm#
[11:22] <dholbach> pitti: sure
[11:22] <Kamion> or, not. is liveLogs not being updated any more?
[11:22] <infinity> Oh, no, edubuntu is uninstallable.  Rock.
[11:22] <ogra> infinity, nope, it just has the wrong artwork 
[11:23] <Kamion> if infinity tells you that the buildd thinks it's uninstallable, the buildd is probably right ...
[11:23] <ogra> yeah, i see it in the logs
[11:23] <infinity> ogra: It's uninstallable on amd64 and powerpc.
[11:23] <ogra> grrr
[11:23] <ogra> who broke kstars
[11:24] <infinity> Though, that's new.  It was fine yesterday.
[11:24] <infinity> So your images can't be THAT out of date.
[11:24] <ogra> i fixed the artwork on the weekend ...
[11:24] <Kamion> Riddell just uploaded KDE 3.5.2; it may have been a transient problem
[11:24] <ogra> grmbl 
[11:24] <infinity> Probably just transient, yes.
[11:25] <KaiL> spinnt ICQ rum?
[11:25] <infinity> ogra: You want to update your -meta, s/nm-applet/network-manager-gnome/ and reupload anyway.
[11:25] <infinity> ogra: Your nm-applet and network-manager are out of sync on the images that did succeed because of that.
[11:25] <pitti> KaiL: inglisch spoken here :)
[11:26] <KaiL> oops
[11:26] <ogra> infinity, are you sure the 0.6 packages work at all ?
[11:26] <ogra> it looked different last night ...
[11:26] <infinity> ogra: Given my system's state, I'm going to go with "no", but they won't work any better with mismatched frontend and backend. :/
[11:26] <Kamion> tough, if they don't work that's life
[11:26] <Kamion> we don't randomly ship with older NBS binaries just for the fun of it :)
[11:27] <ogra> yes, but that leaves us without network on the livecd
[11:27] <Kamion> in fact, how about I go and remove nm-applet, just to make sure
[11:27] <infinity> Kamion: Too late, I uploaded a new NM that builds an nm-applet transitional package.
[11:27] <Kamion> ah
[11:27] <infinity> Kamion: As a favour to dapper users.
[11:28] <infinity> (We can remove it again later, when people have mostly upgraded from Flight-5 to Flight-6...
[11:28] <infinity> )
[11:28] <ogra> infinity, my chroot says kstars is installable ... so i'll need a rebiuld after edubuntu-meta has build
[11:29] <infinity> ogra: Yeah, that's no problem.
[11:30] <infinity> Kamion: How do you feel about violently removing amd64-libs-dev, and saying "tough" to the 1 or 2 universe packages still build-depending on it?
[11:30] <Kamion> infinity: sure, can do, give me a minute
[11:30] <Kamion> although isn't it ia32-libs-dev?
[11:30] <infinity> Err, yeah, that thing.
[11:31] <Kamion> although *just* ia32-libs-dev/amd64, which makes life interesting
[11:31] <infinity> Ths thing making my out-of-date output all icky.
[11:31] <infinity> Well, ia32-libs* on amd64 should go away eventually, as amd64 becomes fully biarch, while ia32-libs on ia64 may survive forever, since ia64 isn't really a biarch arch, it's a hack.
[11:32] <infinity> (And new ia64 hardware doesn't even speak i386 anymore, so it's a niche thing there)
[11:32] <infinity> slomo: Great, it failed differently the second time.  Woo.
[11:33] <slomo> infinity: wonderful... i love this ;) don't tell me that there is a segfault somewhere please
[11:34] <slomo> infinity: could you also verify that this builds fine on ia64, amd64 and ppc later?
[11:35] <infinity> slomo: I can give it a sping after the Flight-6 wrangling is over.
[11:36] <seb128> Kinnison: daaaaaniiiiieeeelll :)
[11:36] <infinity> Okay, now my failures match.
[11:36] <slomo> infinity: thanks :) but the sparc ftbfs causes me some headaches now... i hope fabbione has already a fix for it ;)
[11:37] <Kamion> infinity: iz gone
[11:37] <Kamion> so etherboot fakechroot x86info will FTBFS until somebody fixes them
[11:37] <infinity> slomo: Or, you ported the patches wrong. :P
[11:37] <infinity> Kamion: I vagely recall looking at them and deciding they were mostly broken anyway (hence why I didn't just fix them)
[11:38] <infinity> slomo: http://cerberus.0c3.net/~adconrad/mono/
[11:38] <slomo> infinity: i didn't port anything... there were 4 patches, two were applied upstream... the other's applied fine
[11:39] <infinity> slomo: Well, we can get DaveM to look at it another time, perhaps.  For now, enjoy your build log. :)
[11:40] <slomo> infinity: the buildlog makes me sad :( i think it's not possible that /proc/stat is unreadable?
[11:40] <infinity> slomo: Oh, feh.
[11:40] <infinity> I didn't mount /proc ... Too much beer.
[11:41] <infinity> slomo: Give me those sources again?  You deleted them from your site (and I deleted them locally)
[11:41] <slomo> infinity: i didn't delete them ;)
[11:41] <ogra> Kamion, they FTBFSed anyway (etherboot at least)
[11:41] <infinity> slomo: Again, beer.  My fault.
[11:42] <Kamion> ogra: well, they'll fail harder now
[11:42] <ogra> heh
[11:42] <slomo> infinity: don't worry :)
[11:42] <ogra> since nobody noticed until now, i think thats marginal ...
[11:46] <Kamion> Mithrandir: promised espresso upload in acceptedd
[11:46] <Kamion> -d
[11:47] <ogra> oh ... acceptedd reminds me ...
[11:47] <ogra> Kamion, can you un-NEW squeak-image ? 
[11:49] <Mithrandir> Kamion: thanks.
[11:50] <ogra> Kinnison, you might want to add that: http://mail.gnome.org/archives/gnome-power-manager-list/2006-March/msg00080.html
[11:51] <ogra> (probably)
[11:51] <Kamion> ogra: done
[11:52] <ogra> Kamion, thanks a bunch in the name of our 10ppl squeak community :)
[11:52] <Kamion> Mithrandir: oh, CRAP
[11:53] <Kamion> Mithrandir: you know my kbd-chooser upload yesterday? I never uploaded debian-installer to rebuild the initrd with it ...
[11:53] <Kamion> I *hate* this lack of daily d-i
[11:54] <Mithrandir> Kamion: grr, ok.  So no images until we have the new d-i in.
[11:54] <infinity> I can do daily d-i, if soyuz will accept me shoving binNMUs in.
[11:54] <Kamion> yeah, doing a quick no-change upload now
[11:54] <Kamion> infinity: I doubt it
[11:55] <infinity> It's not like getting binary uploads in is hard, but I bet the version check would fail.
[11:55] <infinity> We could automate source daily-di...
[11:55] <infinity> s/source/sourceful/
[11:55] <infinity> Anyhow, back after food.
[11:55] <Kamion> yeah, I really would rather not though
[11:55] <Kamion> gets very confusing
[11:56] <Kamion> much easier when I know which random enormous source tarballs I need to download and which I don't
[11:56] <Kamion> (I have an archive of every debian-installer upload ever. Yes, I'm insane.)
[12:06] <HiddenWolf> Kamion: any reason?
[12:08] <Kamion> HiddenWolf: because I've never been successful in my repeated requests for a baz/bzr import of the relevant bits, and I need to be able to do archaeology occasionally to find out when I introduced changes
[12:08] <seb128> raphink: do you try your patches sometime before uploading? :)
[12:09] <raphink> seb128: sorry I had tried it but not enough *blush*
[12:09] <raphink> :(
[12:09] <seb128> raphink: 3 cdbs uploads to get one dir creating working ...
[12:10] <raphink> sorry for that :s
[12:10] <seb128> if you don't really know what you are doing maybe better to not change cdbs, no offense, but we have a load of package using it and that's not a piece of software we want to get broken
[12:10] <HiddenWolf> Hey seb128, do you have any plans to upload a snapshot or 0.9.4 rhythmbox, or are we sticking to 0.9.3? (just wondering if I should file bugs)
[12:10] <seb128> HiddenWolf: no way I upload a snapshot, 0.9.4 if it was here could be considered, by they changed many stuff so I doubt of it
[12:11] <HiddenWolf> seb128: hm, right. I'll go checking what's broken in 0.9.3 and fixed upstream, and file a few bugs when I'm sober/awake
[12:11] <seb128> HiddenWolf: looks fine, thank you
[12:12] <HiddenWolf> seb128: :)
[12:14] <HiddenWolf> hey, xchat-gnome was dropped from desktop?
[12:14] <seb128> yeah, no need of an IRC client on the desktop
[12:14] <seb128> it's rather a geeky tool
[12:16] <HiddenWolf> Hm. I guess my baseline expectation differs from Average Joe
[12:16] <minghua> maybe there should be a ubuntu-geek-desktop? :-)
[12:19] <slomo> infinity: any news on sparc?
[12:21] <dholbach> minghua: better not make decisions on what the "average geek" could like, it'll end up in flamewars and myriads of bug reports :)
[12:21] <ogra> as long as vim is shipped and emacs not, all will be fine ;P
[12:42] <HiddenWolf> argh
[12:45] <mjg59> Hm. Why does attempting to add a Windows printer result in it attempting to authenticate me to every Windows machine on the network?
[12:46] <ogra> AD weirdness ?
[12:46] <mjg59> ogra: Under Ubuntu?
[12:46] <HiddenWolf> ET calling home, ofcourse
[12:46] <ogra> mjg59, hmm
[12:50] <infinity> slomo: I was out fetching food. :)
[12:50] <ogra> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/dapper/+builds
[12:51] <ogra> hmm, intresting, we have unknown buildds ?
[12:51] <ogra> "Built by unknown build machine in" :)
[12:51] <infinity> ogra: No, we have a half-implemented feature. :)
[12:51] <ogra> :)
[12:52] <infinity> ogra: Don't show "all", btw.
[12:52] <infinity> ogra: It's only "superseded" builds that should show "unknown" (since they never built)
[12:52] <ogra> infinity, btw, could you finally kill that xscreensaver 4.23-4ubuntu1 build ?
[12:52] <ogra> we're at 4.23-4ubuntu7
[12:53] <infinity> ogra: The one marked as "superseded"?
[12:53] <infinity> ogra: That means it won't get tried.
[12:53] <ogra> dunno, i just see it listed
[12:53] <infinity> ogra: Yes, as superseded.
[12:53] <ogra> oh, ah
[12:54] <ogra> ok
[12:59] <Kinnison> seb128: still broken?
[12:59] <seb128> Kinnison: no trace on your upload on dapper-changes nor launchpad
[12:59] <seb128> s/on/of
[01:00] <Kinnison> odd
[01:01] <seb128> if you say so
[01:01] <seb128> are you sure you did upload it?
[01:01] <seb128> didn't get a rejected mail?
[01:01] <Kinnison> fairly
[01:02] <Kinnison> nope, no reject
[01:02] <Kinnison> but no accept either
[01:02] <Kinnison> and I definitely signed it
[01:02] <seb128> you are the best placed to look on what's going on I think :)
[01:03] <Kinnison> seb128: indeed
[01:07] <Kinnison> seb128: okay, worked it out, it's the classic kinni muckup only with a twist
[01:07] <Kinnison> it of course failed to find 'UNRELEASED' as a distrorelease
[01:08] <Kinnison> but for some reason it failed to mail me
[01:08] <seb128> ah :)
[01:08] <ogra> heh
[01:08] <Kinnison> that's the more worrying bit
[01:08] <infinity> Yeah, a reject for that would be shiny.
[01:08] <Kinnison> infinity: normally it *does* reject that
[01:08] <Kinnison> infinity: something has changed
[01:08] <infinity> Awesome.
[01:08] <infinity> Oh, I had a question for you.
[01:09] <infinity> How much effort would it be to set up a pocket that publishes to a private archive in the DC?
[01:09] <infinity> (For CAT/buildd use)
[01:09] <Kinnison> considering currently launchpad is fully open and friendly about distros, very very hard
[01:10] <infinity> Check.  I'll keep making private archives on rockhopper then. :)
[01:10] <Kamion> Kinnison: it's never mailed people on wrong-distrorelease
[01:10] <Kamion> Kinnison: at least not for the last month or so
[01:11] <infinity> You do this often? :)
[01:11] <ogra> heh, beats me
[01:11] <Kamion> no, but I look up the failures for people often
[01:11] <Kinnison> Kamion: I have a mail from march 9th where it mailed me a reject for wrong distrorelease
[01:11] <Kamion> Kinnison: https://launchpad.net/products/launchpad-upload-and-queue/+bug/35965
[01:11] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 35965 in launchpad-upload-and-queue "exceptions in process-upload not communicated to uploader" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  
[01:12] <Kinnison> Kamion: *nod* that's what I saw this time
[01:13] <ogra> Kinnison, the latest (0.6.something) ?
[01:13] <Lure> Kinnison: which driver?
[01:13] <Kinnison> ogra: I'm just looking
[01:13] <Kinnison> lure: ipw2100
[01:14] <Kinnison> hmm, the wireless card associated with my network, but iwlist scan shows nothing
[01:14] <infinity> Kinnison: You're lucky, it just segfaults for me right now. :)
[01:14] <ogra> hmm ... 
[01:14] <Lure> infinity: what segfauls - n-m or iwlist scan?
[01:14] <ogra> 7me ponders if he should just release the current live image with old nm
[01:14] <infinity> Lure: NM.
[01:15] <ogra> at least users will have network then :)
[01:15] <Kinnison> ogra: I think this is an ipw2100 issue
[01:15] <Lure> Kinnison: if iwlist does not report properly it is probably driver issue
[01:16] <Kinnison> okay that's very odd
[01:16] <Kinnison> I reloaded the driver, and for about 10 seconds, iwlist scan showed my network
[01:16] <Kinnison> then it went away again
[01:17] <Lure> Kinnison: n-m does constant scans, maybe that confuses the driver (similar problem with madwifi)
[01:18] <Lure> which version of ipw2100 do you have (I know ipw2200 in ubuntu is latest, but not sure for 2100)
[01:18] <Kinnison> dmesg says version 1.1.4
[01:19] <Lure> that is a bit old (2.5 months ;-), there is packet monitoring patch in 1.2.1 that may help and one WEXT patch (that n-m depends on)
[01:19] <Lure> http://ipw2100.sourceforge.net/
[01:20] <Kinnison> it was working before I upgraded
[01:20] <siretart> Kinnison: I don't know if this is the same problem, but I think I saw this yesterday on my girlfriends ipw2200
[01:21] <Lure> Kinnison: another ipw2100 report with latest n-m: http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=151872
[01:21] <siretart> Kinnison: the solution was to disable and then reenable wired networking. then wireless was available again
[01:21] <siretart> btw, is there any easy way to restart nm which does not involve /etc/init.d/dbus restart?
[01:22] <Lure> siretart: not really - you can kill and start manually
[01:22] <Kinnison> Lure: seems unrelated
[01:22] <infinity> Run the scripts from /etc/dbus/event.d
[01:23] <infinity> Or "dpkg-reconfigure network-manager", which will do it for you.
[01:23] <Kinnison> infinity: *g*
[01:23] <Lure> Kinnison: any strange message in dmesg?
[01:23] <siretart> infinity: :) - thanks
[01:23] <Kinnison> Lure: not really
[01:23] <Kinnison> Lure: and since killing NM I get intermittent scan results
[01:24] <Kinnison> but what's odd is that it thinks only 54Mbps is available on the router
[01:25] <siretart> Kinnison: do you use wpa? you might find it interesting to have an open 'wpa_cli' with 'level 0' (this is a wpa_cli command) debugging open..
[01:25] <Lure> Kinnison: strange is that there were many success reports with ipw2100 (with test packages), only one failure
[01:25] <siretart> Lure: did you identify why it failed?
[01:26] <Lure> Lure: I do not recall, but am just looking through archives...
[01:26] <Mithrandir> Kamion: hmm, why isn't d-i 26 in the archive yet?
[01:26] <Kinnison> siretart: the only security measure is MAC locking
[01:26] <Mithrandir> Kamion: as in, the binaries seem to not be there yet.
[01:27] <Lure> siretart: actually it was nm-applet issue causing WEP key to be lost (http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=848460&highlight=ipw2100#post848460)
[01:28] <siretart> Lure: oh. this would/could confirm debian bug #304087 then
[01:29] <Ubugtu> Debian bug 304087 in wpasupplicant "Subject: wpasupplicant not working with ipw2100 driver" [Important,Open]  http://bugs.debian.org/304087
[01:29] <siretart> Lure: I'm still waiting for ppl to confirm that this bug is valid or not
[01:29] <dholbach> Kinnison: regarding bug 33820.... it'd make sense to reject it, no?
[01:29] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 33820 in gnome-session "Pressing power button displays dialog, it does not switch off computer" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/33820
[01:30] <Treenaks> dholbach: I think it should be considered a duplicate of the 'whine-about-the-logout-dialog' bug
[01:30] <Hadaka> hi! is there a list of things to consider when making a package for ubuntu instead of debian?
[01:30] <Kinnison> dholbach: I was going to ask mjg59 to decide if we disable the functionality in g-p-m or reject the bug
[01:30] <dholbach> Treenaks: you mean the "too many buttons"?
[01:31] <Treenaks> dholbach: (the one complaining that the new Ubuntu logout dialog sucks compared to the original Gnome 2.14 ones with timeouts)
[01:31] <siretart> Hadaka: we follow the debian packaging policy
[01:31] <Kamion> Mithrandir: they're there now; I think you just looked while the publisher was still running / mirrors were still pulsing
[01:31] <Hadaka> siretart: okay, thanks
[01:32] <dholbach> Kinnison: ok
[01:33] <Kinnison> seb128: I bodged my network so I could upload the metacity fix again, I'll investigate in a bit
[01:33] <infinity> Kamion: Oddly enough, the manual never made it...
[01:33] <infinity> Kamion: (which was what I was checking to see if the upload had)
[01:35] <infinity> Kamion: Oh, we don't build the manual anymore, I guess.
[01:35] <infinity> Silly me.
[01:35] <Kinnison> Lure: I'll upgrade and try again
[01:35] <Kamion> infinity: right, installation-guide now
[01:35] <Kamion> there's a mostly empty debian-installer.deb
[01:36] <infinity> Yeah, I see that now (missed it earlier)
[01:36] <infinity> Stupid human parsing.
[01:37] <seb128> Kinnison: cool
[01:37] <pitti> Kamion: btw, when you NEW aspell-cs, can you please put it into main directly? I added an inclusion report for it (not urgent, though)
[01:38] <Kinnison> seb128: can you remind me how to empty my session?
[01:38] <Kamion> pitti: ok, will do
[01:38] <seb128> Kinnison: empty? reset to default you mean? rm ~/.gnome2/session
[01:39] <Mithrandir> Kamion: ok.  Anything else we want to get in before I roll the ISOs and we can start testing?
[01:39] <Kinnison> seb128: thanks
[01:40] <infinity> Kamion: I don't suppose anyone's found a fix for the "I have no menu selection in gfxboot" anymore bug that cropped up between Flight-4 and Flight-5?
[01:40] <infinity> s/" anymore/ anymore"/
[01:41] <_ion> Hi
[01:43] <infinity> Ah-ha.  The NM SEGV only occurs when you have uncommented interfaces in /etc/n/i
[01:44] <infinity> Mithrandir: What does the livecd's /etc/n/i look like these days?
[01:44] <Kinnison> Lure: after an upgrade, nm-applet now shows my wireless but refuses to associate with it
[01:44] <Kamion> infinity: er, was that bug on machines that worked fine with Flight 4?
[01:44] <Mithrandir> infinity: auto lo\niface lo inet loopback\n\nauto eth0\niface eth0 inet dhcp
[01:44] <Kamion> 'cos I'd assumed it was another instance of "we need to switch to 640x400"
[01:44] <infinity> Kamion: So it claimed...
[01:44] <Mithrandir> infinity: (repeat for each interface)
[01:45] <Kamion> infinity: bug#?
[01:45] <infinity> Mithrandir: Crap.  Let me test that here.
[01:45] <infinity> Kamion: Looking.
[01:45] <Kinnison> Lure: It whinged about failing to execute wpa_supplicant
[01:45] <Kinnison> Lure: despite me not using wpa
[01:45] <Mithrandir> infinity: nm-applet and NetworkManager{,Dispatcher} running happily on my live box.
[01:46] <infinity> Kamion: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/gfxboot-theme-ubuntu/+bug/34592
[01:46] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 34592 in gfxboot-theme-ubuntu "dapper flight 5: install menu never comes" [Critical,Confirmed]  
[01:46] <infinity> Kamion: "I've never seen this problem with any earlier release i installed before, certainly not with any dapper flight release up to and including flight-4."
[01:47] <Kinnison> Lure: http://users.pepperfish.net/dsilvers/for_lure.txt is an excerpt from daemon.log
[01:49] <Lure> Kinnison: 0.6 has to have wpasupplicant installed and you seem to have old wpasupplicant
[01:49] <Lure> please remove it and reinstall (it has moved from /usr/sbin/ to /sbin with official package)
[01:49] <Kinnison> Lure: I had *no* wpasupplicant installed
[01:49] <Lure> Kinnison: know issue - n-m recommends it, but it should require/depend on it
[01:49] <Lure> please install and try again
[01:50] <Lure> there is already bug in Malone
[01:50] <Kinnison> Lure: I'll try now
[01:50] <ogra> Lure, it doent work at all without wpasupplicant ? 
[01:50] <Kinnison> Lure: you are the win
[01:51] <Kamion> infinity: could be a display problem, could be an infinite loop somewhere in gfxboot-theme-ubuntu. I've followed up to try to narrow it down.
[01:51] <Lure> ogra: yes, I think wpasupplicant is also used for scanning
[01:51] <Mithrandir> infinity: apart from nm claiming I don't have a network connection, that is.
[01:51] <Lure> in 0.6
[01:51] <infinity> Mithrandir: Ahh, kay, the bug is much narrower in scope (and probably easier to find as a result)
[01:51] <ogra> Lure, evil ...
[01:52] <infinity> Mithrandir: The way the livecd is setup works fine.  Mine segfaults as soon as I add any wireless* options to the iface stanza.
[01:52] <infinity> Mithrandir: Bullet dodged for now.  I'll chase up this segv tomorrow.
[01:52] <Mithrandir> infinity: thanks.
[01:52] <siretart> Lure: are you serious about that nm_0.6 will not work in any case without wpasupplicant?
[01:52] <Mithrandir> Kamion: you don't need anything more in the live cd?
[01:52] <Mithrandir> Kamion: or install cd
[01:53] <Mithrandir> if so, I'll spin ISOs
[01:53] <Kamion> Mithrandir: not urgently, as far as I know
[01:53] <Mithrandir> Kamion: ok, thanks.
[01:53] <infinity> Mithrandir: We may want to add wpasupplicant to the live seed, but too late for this run. :)
[01:53] <infinity> Mithrandir: If this run is broken, we can consider it. :)
[01:53] <janimo> Mithrandir: sorry. I forgot and made an upload to main (xfwm)
[01:53] <Mithrandir> infinity: yup, sure.
[01:54] <infinity> Err, wait.  It's still in minimal?
[01:54] <janimo> hope I did not cause any trouble
[01:54] <Kamion> infinity: unless somebody moved it ...
[01:54] <Mithrandir> what is still in minimal?
[01:54] <infinity> Not that anything depends on minimal anyway, so monimal isn't on the livecd.
[01:55] <infinity> Oh, -base depends on minimal, and -base is on the livecd.
[01:55] <infinity> Nevermind, then. :)
[01:55] <infinity> wpasupplicant is on the livecd.
[01:56] <infinity> Serendipity.
[01:56] <Riddell> Mithrandir: you're building new daily CDs?
[01:56] <Mithrandir> Riddell: yes.
[01:56] <Mithrandir> infinity: it is?  Not on my (upgraded) live cd, AFAICT
[01:57] <Riddell> Mithrandir: can you do new kubuntu ones too?  or let me know when little is free to do so
[01:57] <Mithrandir> Riddell: sure, I'll spin you those.
[01:57] <infinity> Mithrandir: Hrm.  I don't see it in "apt-cache show ubuntu-minimal", but I sure as heck see it in the minimal seed..
[01:57] <infinity> I wonder if there's some sort of disconnect there...
[01:58] <Mithrandir> infinity: I don't see it in 104 of ubuntu-meta I uploaded.
[01:58] <infinity> germinate still angry about it being in universe (but it's been moved for a while now)?
[01:58] <Mithrandir>      0.4.8-0ubuntu2 0
[01:58] <Mithrandir>         500 http://archive.ubuntu.com dapper/main Packages
[02:00] <infinity> Anyhow, you should get on with CD building and testing.  I can figure this out async.
[02:00] <infinity> If wpasupplicant doesn't end up on the livecd, no big loss.
[02:00] <Kamion> infinity: nobody's uploaded ubuntu-meta since I promoted it to main
[02:01] <infinity> Ah-ha.
[02:01] <infinity> minimal/i386: Skipping package wpasupplicant (package not in debootstrap)
[02:01] <infinity> Kamion: No, "minimal" is just thpethial.
[02:01] <Kamion> oh, right
[02:01] <Kamion> infinity: I can't change priorities at the moment, so nothing gets into minimal at all
[02:01] <infinity> Rockin'.
[02:02] <infinity> S'ok, I'm still questioning why it was put there anyway.
[02:02] <ogra> why is it in minimal ? 
[02:02] <StevenK> Kamion: All Soyuz stuff?
[02:02] <ogra> its a dependency of a desktop app /me thinks ...
[02:02] <Kamion> StevenK: yes
[02:02] <j^> infinity if wpasupplicant is not on the livecd WEP/WPA wireless networks will not work with NM
[02:02] <StevenK> Geez. 
[02:02] <infinity> ogra: Well, no, it can be used to configure a WPA network independantly of the desktop.
[02:03] <ogra> infinity, but we dont use it that way currently ...
[02:03] <infinity> So, much like wireless-tools, it has a place in minimal.  But I'm still not positive on that.
[02:03] <StevenK> What about standard?
[02:03] <StevenK> It
[02:03] <StevenK> It's not minimal, but it isn't optional either. :-)
[02:03] <Kamion> I think the reasoning is that ifupdown is minimal
[02:04] <infinity> And wireless-tools.
[02:04] <infinity> And other such things.
[02:04] <Kamion> right
[02:04] <Kinnison> j^: In fact, if my experience today is anything to go by, non-WEP/WPA won't work either
[02:04] <Kamion> ogra: we don't, but a user can by editing /etc/network/interfaces
[02:04] <j^> Kinnison which wireless driver?
[02:04] <ogra> yep, i understandf
[02:05] <ogra> -f
[02:05] <Kamion> Mithrandir: hmm, do we want metacity 1:2.14.1-0ubuntu3?
[02:05] <Kamion> I think we might
[02:06] <infinity> j^: Kinnison's right, I just tested.
[02:06] <infinity> Kinnison: That's clearly a bug in the packaging, not a feature.
[02:06] <infinity> Mithrandir: Your broken NM on your Live system is due to wpasupplicant being missing. :/
[02:06] <infinity> Mithrandir: I'll seed it to live and do another meta upload, on the off chance you may feel the urge to regenerate images later for some other reason.
[02:07] <infinity> Mithrandir: If that other reason never arises, you can list it as errata.
[02:07] <Kinnison> j^: ipw2100
[02:07] <j^> current version of network-manager only recomends wpasupplicant but has to depend on it
[02:07] <infinity> j^: By "has to", you mean "is broken, and should be fixed"
[02:08] <j^> infinity yes, along those lines
[02:08] <infinity> j^: There's no reason why it should NNED wpasupplicant for WEP or unsecured networks, it just appears to unconditionally try to spawn it anyway (and fails when it's not there)
[02:08] <HiddenWolf> moken?
[02:08] <HiddenWolf> whoops
[02:08] <Treenaks> can't you use wpasupplicant for wep too?
[02:09] <infinity> Treenaks: Probably, but you can also use the WEXT WEP extentions, which NM has happily done until 0.6 (and may still be able to do, if someone asks it nicely)
[02:09] <Mithrandir> Kamion: hmm.
[02:11] <siretart> infinity: wpasupplicant can also connect to WEP secured and even unsececured networks. this makes it somewhat a generic roaming daemon replacement, given that wpasupplicant supports 'action scripts' which are called whenever it looses or reconnects to some AP
[02:12] <infinity> siretart: So, you're arguing we should just always have it installed as an NM dependency and deal with the added bloat?
[02:12] <mjg59> siretart: That doesn't sound like a good reason for network-manager always using it, though
[02:13] <siretart> infinity: I don't know how NM actually uses wpasupplicant. I just wanted to point out that wpasupplicant CAN be used that way. 
[02:13] <infinity> siretart: It appears that it IS using it that way right now, but I'm arguing that's wrong. :)
[02:13] <Kinnison> It has an installed size of a half-meg
[02:13] <Kinnison> and the .deb is 186k
[02:13] <_ion> Is anyone working on n-m 0.6.2?
[02:14] <_ion> I.e. upgrading the Ubuntu package
[02:14] <j^> _ion http://bootlab.org/~j/NetworkManager
[02:14] <infinity> Updating the Ubuntu package to 0.6.2 is simple.  Fixing the current bugs/issues we have with the implementation of 0.6.x is more important.
[02:14] <siretart> on a side note: I currently work on an integration of whereami to wpasupplicant. but it isn't there yet
[02:14] <_ion> j: Cool.
[02:15] <_ion> There's also a bug in the current Ubuntu package: the binaries contain a different PIDfile path from the one in the d-bus scripts.
[02:15] <_ion> The 0.6.1 package i used to work on contained a patch that fixed it.
[02:16] <infinity> _ion: Ahh, is that why restarting it leaves a NetworkManagerDispatcher running (I had 5 before I noticed)?
[02:16] <_ion> infinity: Yep.
[02:17] <infinity> Easy enough fix.
[02:18] <_ion> The binaries: /var/run/foo.pid, the scripts: /var/run/NetworkManager/foo.pid
[02:18] <infinity> Mithrandir: Do you care enough about NM to put the world on hold, or are you happy with errata?
[02:18] <_ion> My patch changed the path in the source, but one might as well modify the d-bus event scripts instead.
[02:19] <infinity> _ion: Or both.  Neither of those paths looks "right" to me.
[02:19] <j^> _ion what about adding --pid-file= than starting the daemon?
[02:19] <infinity> _ion: Should be /var/run/<packagename>/<binaryname>.pid (so, /var/run/network-manager/NetworkManagerDispatcher.pid)
[02:19] <_ion> That's one possibility. :-)
[02:19] <ogra> grmbl ...
[02:20] <ogra> edubuntu-meta built 1h ago and is still not in the archive ...
[02:20] <Mithrandir> infinity: I'd like to have it in the live images, but I guess we can test the install images.
[02:20] <Mithrandir> Riddell: kubuntu images spinning
[02:21] <Kinnison> ogra: it'll be there at the end of this cycle
[02:21] <infinity> Mithrandir: Alright, well, turnaround time on seed changes or packaging changes being more or less the same, I'll upload NM instead with a hard dependency on wpasupplicant since (for now) it seems to need that.
[02:21] <infinity> Mithrandir: We can beat Keybuk about later to fix that.
[02:21] <ogra> Kinnison, i'm sure it will be there at the end of *something* :)
[02:21] <Mithrandir> infinity: thanks.
[02:25] <janimo> when are uploads expected to be allowed again?
[02:26] <ogra> janimo, uploads are fine for everything that doesnt touch any CDs :)
[02:26] <infinity> _ion: Do you have that path patch handy?
[02:26] <_ion> infinity: Yep, a moment...
[02:26] <janimo> ah, ok. then xfce stuff is ok I assume.
[02:26] <ogra> janimo, since i doubt xfce stuff is on any of the CDs yet, you should be fine
[02:27] <janimo> just wanted to make sure. I don't know what a cd making entails, it may be copying the archive from one place to another :)
[02:27] <infinity> _ion: Nevermind, found the offending code.
[02:28] <_ion> Here it is anyway. http://johan.kiviniemi.name/tmp/nm-pidfile-location.patch
[02:28] <infinity> Danke.
[02:30] <Kamion> janimo: that's part of it, yes ...
[02:31] <Kamion> Mithrandir: mind if I upload tzsetup? my change only touches the espresso module (to select a sensible default timezone in all cases), and I don't mind if that change isn't in Flight 6
[02:31] <ogra> YAY
[02:31] <ogra> infinity, edubuntu-meta is ready for a new livefs
[02:32] <Mithrandir> Kamion: sure, please do.
[02:32] <Mithrandir> ogra: you don't need the new NM?
[02:33] <ogra> Mithrandir, thats what i did that edubuntu-meta rebuild for ...
[02:33] <_ion> I really liked the colors in the Human theme in breezy.
[02:33] <ogra>    * Refreshed dependencies
[02:33] <ogra>    * Added network-manager-gnome to live-i386, live-amd64, live-powerpc,
[02:33] <ogra>      live-ia64, live-sparc, live-hppa
[02:33] <ogra>    * Removed nm-applet from live-i386, live-amd64, live-powerpc, live-
[02:33] <ogra>      ia64, live-sparc, live-hppa
[02:33] <infinity> ogra: Then you need to wait for my upload.  Sorry. :/
[02:33] <ogra> Mithrandir, ^^
[02:33] <ogra> ah, k
[02:33] <Mithrandir> ogra: what about wpasupplicant?
[02:33] <infinity> Mithrandir: Solved in my upload.
[02:33] <ogra> i missed that ... (edubuntu meeting aside here)
[02:33] <Mithrandir> infinity: well, true.
[02:33] <infinity> Mithrandir: I just added a hard dep on it.
[02:33] <infinity> ogra: Don't worry about it.
[02:34] <ogra> Mithrandir, what infinity said
[02:34] <Mithrandir> Riddell: kubuntu cds are done
[02:34] <infinity> We can whip the approrpriate people about fixing NM's behaviour after Flight mojo is over.
[02:34] <Mithrandir> ogra: do you want edubuntu install cds to test too?
[02:36] <infinity> Kinnison: Would it be terribly bad to disable lp_publish's crontab on drescher and do by-hand cron.daily runs to speed up the process when we need to? :)
[02:36] <ogra> Mithrandir, since they'll suffer also from the kdeedu breakage, i'll need new ones i guess ...
[02:36] <_ion> j: Your 0.6.2 package seems to have docbook-to-man and wpasupplicant in build-deps. Are those really necessary?
[02:37] <Pygi> _ion: I need to talk to you ^_^ And hi
[02:37] <Mithrandir> ogra: ok, spinning
[02:37] <Pygi> pitti: around? urgent issue to solve ;)
[02:37] <_ion> j: The .diff.gz also contains network-manager-0.6.2/src/nm-device-802-11-wireless.c.new  i think that doesn't belong there.
[02:38] <pitti> hi Pygi 
[02:38] <_ion> Hi pygi
[02:38] <ogra> Mithrandir, what about the kbd-chooser change and d-i rebuild Kamion talked about, is that in ?
[02:38] <Mithrandir> ogra: yes.
[02:38] <ogra> good :)
[02:38] <Pygi> pitti: do you have the "powers" to rebuild wpasupplicant in main?
[02:38] <Pygi> pitti: one patch should be included right now, if possible ;)
[02:38] <Mithrandir> ogra: I'm halfway through i386 testing already. :-P
[02:38] <pitti> Pygi: in general yes, but right now we are in flight-6 freeze
[02:38] <ogra> Mithrandir, wow, fast guy, you deserve a pony :)
[02:38] <Pygi> pitti: yes, I know that, but this is security issue, you know :-/
[02:38] <pitti> Pygi: so every main upload needs Mithrandir's or Kamion's approval
[02:39] <Pygi> Mithrandir: ping ;)
[02:39] <siretart> Pygi: what patch for wpasupplicant? please file a bug and attach that patch
[02:39] <Pygi> siretart: A security issue :-/
[02:39] <Mithrandir> Pygi: dude, no need to ping me when I've said something in the channel in the last minute. :-)
[02:39] <pitti> Pygi: which one? spewing WEP passwords into log files?
[02:39] <Mithrandir> Pygi: hmm, where's the patch?
[02:39] <Pygi> Mithrandir: yes, sorry ;)
[02:39] <Pygi> pitti: yup
[02:39] <_ion> mithrandir: Ping ;-)
[02:39] <Pygi> Mithrandir: wait a sec ;)
[02:39] <pitti> Pygi: well, that's a pretty old issue
[02:39] <infinity> Pygi: If it can make it in in under 21 minutes, you win.
[02:39] <infinity> Pygi: Otherwise, I don't care. :)
[02:39] <Pygi> pitti: still, should be fixed, no?
[02:40] <pitti> Pygi: yes, of course it should
[02:40] <Pygi> infinity: heh ;)
[02:40] <infinity> Pygi: It can be fixed after Flight-6, if we can't do it in 21 minutes.
[02:40] <pitti> Pygi: but not such a big deal for flight-6 maybe, if it doesn't arrive on time
[02:40] <infinity> pitti: Is the patch small and obvious?
[02:40] <Pygi> I'll give the patch right now
[02:40] <Pygi> sec pls ;)
[02:40] <pitti> infinity: no idea, I didn't see it
[02:40] <ogra> Pygi, but not while we're all busy preparinmg flight CDs and have to handle the archive like raw eggs :)
[02:40] <infinity> pitti: I'm happy to squeak it in before the next cron.daily.
[02:40] <Pygi> ogra: agreed, but I want that fixed ;)
[02:40] <infinity> pitti: Install CDs may not end up with the patch (oh well), but live would get it.
[02:41] <ogra> Pygi, sure but there is no hurry ... we're not on a race :)
[02:41] <infinity> Pygi: Do you actually have a small and sane patch?
[02:41] <Mithrandir> Pygi: if it's just information disclosure into the log files, I don't really care.  Live CDs generally don't last that long.
[02:41] <Pygi> ogra: yes, we are ;)
[02:41] <Pygi> infinity: sec pls ;)
[02:41] <siretart> Pygi: please CC: me
[02:41] <infinity> Mithrandir: More to the point, test CDs don't last that long. :)
[02:41] <Pygi> yes, patch is small
[02:42] <Mithrandir> infinity: that too, but if you end up putting a password into a log on a tmpfs on a live cd, I would be surprised if it was there a day later.
[02:42] <Kamion> ooh, y'know, I might actually be able to change priorities now
[02:42] <pitti> Mithrandir: SRAM, you know :-P
[02:42] <infinity> Kamion: Crazy talk.
[02:42] <Pygi> siretart, infinity ... private message please ;)
[02:43] <Kamion> ... or not.
[02:43] <infinity> Pygi: Is there a CVE to go with this?
[02:44] <fabbione> infinity, slomo: what is FTBFS?
[02:44] <infinity> fabbione: Nothing.  I'm retarded.
[02:44] <fabbione> infinity: ah ok :)
[02:45] <fabbione> oh David left me another mono fix
[02:45] <fabbione> this will make the test suite going
[02:45] <fabbione> and beagle will build
[02:45] <infinity> Nice.
[02:46] <slomo> fabbione: please give me the patch instead of uploading a new mono ;) i have 1.1.13.6 and another patch pending currently
[02:46] <Pygi> infinity:  hm, what do you mean?
[02:46] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 37156 in launchpad-upload-and-queue "can't change sections or priorities with change-override.py" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/37156
[02:46] <Pygi> _ion: you there still?
[02:46] <fabbione> slomo: mind if we first get this one in?
[02:46] <fabbione> slomo: it fixes several problems on sparc
[02:47] <fabbione> and it has been tested
[02:47] <slomo> fabbione: ok but give me the debdiff so i can merge it easier into my local version, ok?
[02:47] <fabbione> slomo: sure..
[02:47] <doko> infinity: so you are awake ...
[02:48] <infinity> Pygi: A CVE assignment from mitre for the information disclosure.
[02:48] <infinity> Apparently not.
[02:48] <Mithrandir> ogra: edubuntu cds done
[02:48] <_ion> pygi: Somewhat. :-)
[02:48] <Pygi> apparently :P
[02:48] <_ion> pygi: I'm resting.
[02:48] <Pygi> _ion: we need to start work on 0.6.2
[02:48] <ogra> Mithrandir, thanks, rsyncing
[02:48] <Pygi> ah, ok, rest ;)
[02:49] <pitti> Pygi: patch looks good enough to me
[02:49] <_ion> pygi: j already upgraded the package.
[02:49] <_ion> pygi: Or is there something else to be done?
[02:49] <slomo> fabbione: the exceptions and gc patch is btw in 1.1.13.6 already
[02:49] <Pygi> _ion: ah, you did? in our repo?
[02:49] <_ion> pygi: /whois j^
[02:49] <fabbione> slomo: yes, the new patch adds more libgc fixes
[02:50] <Pygi> ah, yes, I saw that packages _ion ... have you dropped unneeded patches?
[02:50] <_ion> pygi: http://bootlab.org/~j/NetworkManager
[02:50] <Pygi> _ion: care to copy that to our repo?
[02:50] <Pygi> or ping tonio_ to do it?
[02:51] <KaiL> morning Pygi 
[02:51] <Pygi> KaiL: hi hi
[02:51] <_ion> pygi: Now that n-m 0.6 is already accepted to Ubuntu, is our repo needed anymore? If there's something that should be fixed, i think a malone bug report should be enough.
[02:51] <Pygi> KaiL: I have a question for you ;)
[02:51] <Pygi> _ion: agreed ;) but we need 0.6.2
[02:52] <Kinnison> infinity: I don't imagine so
[02:53] <fabbione> slomo: http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/mono_diff
[02:53] <_ion> pygi: I'm very exhausted at the moment. If i'm feeling better later today, i'll update the package in the repository.
[02:53] <Kinnison> infinity: it should be fine. the best you'll achieve is around double-rate, depending on how the publisher is feeling
[02:53] <fabbione> slomo: and ubuntu9 uploaded. Please let me know when you are ready with the new version, that we will give it a spin
[02:53] <Pygi> _ion: thank you ^_^ and have a good rest ^_^
[02:53] <fabbione> i am off again
[02:53] <fabbione> later
[02:54] <infinity> Pygi: If my test-build finishes before the hour, you get your patch in.
[02:54] <ogra> fabbione, get well ...
[02:54] <fabbione> ogra: thanks
[02:54] <slomo> fabbione: i'm ready ;) i'm only waiting for a uvf exception approval now
[02:54] <infinity> fabbione: Erk.  Someone should have warned you that new uploads will gain the wrath of Mithrandir. :)
[02:54] <infinity> Oh wow, that builds fast.
[02:54] <Pygi> thank you infinity ^_^ now all you need is to make sure it finishes ;)
[02:55] <fabbione> slomo: ok.
[02:55] <fabbione> infinity: eh..
[02:55] <ogra> infinity, is mono on the CD ?
[02:55] <fabbione> infinity: a bit too late..
[02:55] <ogra> i didnt think it is 
[02:55] <fabbione> infinity: and afair mono is not on CD
[02:55] <infinity> fabbione: Yeah, I have no idea if any of it is in ship.  Oh well, too late anyway. :)
[02:56] <fabbione> Mithrandir: sorry :/
[02:56] <fabbione> ok
[02:56] <fabbione> i am off. really
[02:56] <seb128> ogra: no, it's not
[02:56] <fabbione> infinity: care to give back beagle once mono is built?
[02:56] <infinity> fabbione: Bug me tomorrow.  I'm doing the bed thing soon.
[02:56] <ogra> seb128, not before dapper+1 at least :)
[02:56] <fabbione> infinity: night
[02:57] <ogra> if we find the f-spot :)
[02:58] <Pygi> will be back soon
[02:59] <sladen> mjg59 / jdub: D'oh fixed in acpi-support, ta
[02:59] <zul> heylo
[03:00] <ogra> moin zul
[03:01] <zul> moring ogra 
[03:03] <KaiL> Pygi, j^: I'm currently working on a new WLAN status page, which only lists WLAN chipsets,  not the specific devices - that should make the list a lot shorter and avoid false entries, as the device names often doesn't change, but the hardware itself does
[03:07] <KaiL> hmm, bad timing ;)
[03:12] <infinity> mvo: /topic, dude
[03:15] <ogra> infinity, tell that to sladen :P
[03:19] <janimo> was there a final decision made on gtk1.2 and rdepends demotion to uni?
[03:19] <janimo> xmms in particular
[03:19] <janimo> also what was decided on libmad?
[03:19] <infinity> Petty sure xmms is heading to universe.
[03:19] <janimo> this is an ex-mms
[03:20] <janimo> libmad too?
[03:20] <tseng> libmad is used by kde iirc
[03:20] <sladen> ogra: what did I break?
[03:20] <sladen> ogra: /me reads, groovy
[03:21] <ogra> sladen, /topic :)
[03:21] <janimo> tseng, does libmad ship on kubuntu CD as well or only in main?
[03:21] <janimo> Riddell: ^
[03:21] <tseng> beats me dude, it could not use it at all these days
[03:22] <Riddell> tseng: it's a build-dep only
[03:22] <Riddell> janimo: it doesn't ship on the CD
[03:23] <janimo> Riddell: but is in main, and stays there for dapper?
[03:25] <Riddell> janimo: we could drop MP3 support in arts, but what's the advantage?
[03:25] <janimo> Riddell: I am not thinking in terms of advantages/disadvatages here. just curius :)
[03:26] <janimo> since graveman which is potential xubuntu app deps on libmad
[03:26] <janimo> and if libmad goes to universe no need to push it
[03:26] <janimo> graveman I mean
[03:27] <janimo> Riddell: speaking of arts is that going to be kept for kde 4 too?
[03:28] <Riddell> janimo: crivvens no
[03:29] <Treenaks> Riddell: What will be used?
[03:29] <ogra> Treenaks, gstreamer (hopefully)
[03:29] <Treenaks> that'd rock
[03:29] <ogra> yep
[03:30] <Riddell> Treenaks: phonon
[03:31] <Riddell> an API with multiple backends
[03:31] <Riddell> of which gstreamer would be my preference to use
[03:31] <Treenaks> Riddell: one of which is gstreamer, I guess?
[03:31] <Treenaks> ah
[03:36] <Pygi> I am back
[03:36] <Pygi> infinity: good or bad news?
[03:49] <KaiL> rehi Pygi 
[03:49] <KaiL> Pygi: I'm currently working on a new WLAN status page, which only lists WLAN chipsets,  not the specific devices - that should make the list a lot shorter and avoid false entries, as the device names often doesn't change, but the hardware itself does
[03:49] <Pygi> KaiL: rehi? ;) great, thanks ^_^
[03:49] <KaiL> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WirelessChipsets
[03:50] <KaiL> the old device based list is rather - uhm - useless
[03:50] <Pygi> k, thanks for help ^_^
[03:50] <Riddell> Kamion: can you rebuild the kubuntu live CD filesystem?  so it's in live with the install CDs for flight 6
[03:51] <ogra> Riddell, we're still waitinfg for the wpa stuff
[03:52] <KaiL> Pygi, it's only a bit complicate, to get the people even to give me those 2 values... *gar*
[03:52] <Pygi> ogra: it' coming in? ^_^
[03:52] <Pygi> the patch I mean ;)
[03:53] <Kamion> Riddell: I imagine Mithrandir/infinity will do that when ready
[03:55] <Riddell> ok, didn't realise we were still waiting
[03:57] <zul> Kamion: i have a gfxboot patch for grub locally which I have to test out fyi..
[04:00] <Kamion> zul: I really actively don't want to apply that before dapper
[04:00] <zul> Kamion: im working on dapper+1 stuff
[04:00] <Kamion> I know SuSE have it, but I want to keep grub stable; let's look at it after dapper
[04:01] <Kamion> zul: ok, talk to me after dapper :-)
[04:01] <Kamion> but thanks for the note
[04:01] <zul> Kamion: okie dokie..
[04:04] <Pygi> Kamion: any chance I can get UVF exception to update n-m 0.6.1 to n-m 0.6.2?
[04:06] <Kamion> Pygi: please send UVF exceptions by mail, not IRC. see http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources
[04:06] <Pygi> Kamion: yes, I am aware of that, just wanted to ask ^_^
[04:07] <Pygi> s/ask/is there a chance for it
[04:07] <ogra> Pygi, just send the mail 
[04:07] <ogra> the answer will tell you ;)
[04:07] <Kamion> if I answer these questions by IRC, I have to work at your schedule rather than mine
[04:07] <Kamion> IRC is not good for batch processing
[04:08] <Kamion> I'm doing other things right now
[04:08] <Pygi> k, sorry
[04:09] <sladen> KaiL: orinoco/prism work  
[04:10] <KaiL> sladen, I'd like to have the exact names from lspci :)
[04:10] <KaiL> esp. as there are afaik some prism2, which doesn't work
[04:11] <j^> orinoco_pci should be blacklisted so that  hostap_pci is used for Intersilli Prism 2/2.5/3 chips
[04:11] <Kamion> no, some cards need hostap
[04:11] <Kamion> see the PCMCIA list for discussion of this
[04:11] <Kamion> lists.infradead.org
[04:11] <j^> bugs 36718
[04:11] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 36718 in module-init-tools "blacklist orinoco_pci" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/36718
[04:11] <j^> Kamion i am talking about orinoco_pci not orinoco_cs
[04:12] <j^> orinoco_pci and hostap_pci support the same chips
[04:12] <ogra> j^, hey, orinoco is working fine here, dont break it
[04:12] <j^> ogra does it also support WPA?
[04:12] <Kamion> oh, hmm, I'm less sure about that but it seems to me that the same considerations apply; orinoco and hostap *claim* to support the same chips but ...
[04:12] <ogra> j^, i dont use WPA and personally never met any person using it 
[04:13] <KaiL> hostap is in dapper, but not in breezy?
[04:13] <ogra> (to be honest i dont understand all the fuss about it)
[04:13] <j^> ogra i personally dont use any wireless encryption, but as sad as it is i had to use WPA
[04:13] <trappist> ogra: it gets around a lot of the insecurities of wep
[04:13] <Kamion> http://lists.infradead.org/pipermail/linux-pcmcia/2005-December/003001.html says that the exact same problem occurs with orinoco_pci and hostap_pci
[04:13] <ogra> trappist, i live 200m away from the next neighbor, no need for any encryption here ... 
[04:13] <KaiL> ogra, because on Windows it's even more broken than on Ubuntu? ;)
[04:14] <trappist> ogra: not trying to shove it down your throat, just telling you what the fuss is about :)
[04:14] <ogra> trappist, j^, dont get me wrong, i appreciate that you guys do the work, but i personally couldnt care less about WPA
[04:15] <j^> ogra hostap_pci is also faster in finding networks
[04:15] <Kamion> http://lists.infradead.org/pipermail/linux-pcmcia/2005-December/002997.html says that there *are* cards that orinoco supports but hostap does not
[04:15] <ogra> j^, just dont break it ;) thats all i'm begging for ;)
[04:15] <j^> Kamion _cs not _pci
[04:15] <ogra> i dont care which driver drives my card as long as everything works
[04:15] <Kamion> j^: who cares about the bus?
[04:15] <Kamion> it's the same core
[04:16] <mjg59> Kamion: They're different drivers
[04:16] <Kamion> mjg59: whence the comment in http://lists.infradead.org/pipermail/linux-pcmcia/2005-December/003001.html then?
[04:16] <mjg59> I don't think there were orinoco or symbol PCI parts
[04:16] <j^> Kamion orinoco_pci == hostap_pci, other cards are in orinoco_plx
[04:16] <mjg59> Oh, maybe there were orinoco PCI ones
[04:19] <j^> mjg59 but are you sure its not one of the later orinoco ones that use prism2 chips?
[04:21] <Kamion> well, if orinoco_pci is really useless, surely we should just stop building it (or put it somewhere else by default) rather than making life difficult for folks who know what they're doing (e.g. are building their own kernels) by blacklisting it
[04:22] <j^> Kamion editing a txt file to use the module vs. building your own kernel, not sure what makes life difficult
[04:22] <Kamion> http://lists.shmoo.com/pipermail/hostap/2005-November/011901.html
[04:23] <Kamion> the people who build their own kernels will have been doing so for years and will know how to do it; they may not know how to deal with (or where to find) relatively new configuration files
[04:24] <j^> Kamion could say the same for e100 vs eepro100
[04:25] <j^> or others found in /etc/modprobe.d/blacklist
[04:26] <Kamion> e100 and eepro100 do not have quite identical PCI device ID tables
[04:26] <j^> i would also count myself in the group of people that build their own kernels for years, i know about blacklist files and i stopped building my own kernels though
[04:27] <Kamion> I see several devices supported by one but not the other (and neither is a superset)
[04:27] <_ion> I wouldn't build my own kernel if i were able to use /dev/fb{0,1} with Matrox G400 using the default kernel image.
[04:28] <Pygi> _ion: Dan and Robert are really helpfull ;)
[04:29] <j^> Kamion e100 vs eepro100 or hostap_pci vs orinoco_pci now?
[04:29] <bddebian> Kamion: ping?
[04:40] <Kamion> j^: e100/eepro100
[04:40] <Kamion> bddebian: yes?
[04:40] <bddebian> Kamion: Do you mind if I bug you privately for just a sec?
[04:43] <pitti> mjg59: I just noticed a flaw in your at_console dbus patch; got a minute?
[04:43] <mjg59> pitti: Sure
[04:43] <Kamion> bddebian: er, is it particularly private?
[04:43] <bddebian> I would prefer it was, but if you are busy, that is fine
[04:43] <Kamion> bddebian: ok
[04:43] <pitti> mjg59: so it seems that _dbus_is_console_user() is only called when creating a policy, not when receiving a dbus function call
[04:44] <pitti> mjg59: this is fine for Fedora's at_console, but since ours checks the foreground console, it doesn't react to fg console changes
[04:44] <mjg59> pitti: Hrmph.
[04:44] <pitti> mjg59: i. e. if I start g-v-m or g-p-m on one conole, then switch user, start a new one, *both* have at_console privs
[04:44] <mjg59> Yes
[04:44] <mjg59> Ok, that's wrong
[04:44] <mjg59> Can you see a simple fix? :)
[04:45] <pitti> mjg59: I just started to look at the dbus sources, but it seems to require some rearrangements, since the policy parser already resolves quite much
[04:45] <mjg59> Ngh.
[04:47] <pitti> mjg59: hm, it might be possible to create both policies in bus_policy_create_client_policy() and move the decision to the method call handler
[04:48] <Kamion> bddebian: (i.e. go ahead)
[04:50] <j^> Kamion http://bootlab.org/~j/NetworkManager/orinoco_vs_hostap.html
[04:50] <pitti> mjg59: btw, I'm (ab)using at_console in g-v-m to finally solve the race between multiple user's g-v-m instances, that's why I noticed
[04:51] <mjg59> pitti: Ah, cool
[04:52] <Pygi> infinity: thanks ^_^
[04:57] <lamont> COULD WE PLEASE STOP RESETTING MY HOME PAGE EVERYTIME I UPGRADE FIREFOX???
[04:57] <ogra> Kamion, i have a preseedable debconfvalue to select a theme in edubuntu-artwork, if i set edubuntu-artwork/theme=plain at the CD prompt, shouldnt that be picked up ?
[04:57] <pitti> hi lamont
[04:57] <Treenaks> lamont: that doesn't happen for me..
[04:57] <zul> we just do it to bug you lamont ;)
[04:57] <pitti> lamont: WFM
[04:57] <lamont> ok... it's just the breezy-> dapper transition that trashes it.
[04:57] <ogra> here as well
[04:57] <lamont> I mean, I love seing the new dapper info page, but could I please have my home page?
[04:58] <pitti> lamont: complain to Diziet then :)
[04:58] <lamont> yeah, I did.  and he claimed he fixed it...  Guess it's time to reopen the bug
[04:59] <bddebian> Kamion: Are you seeing that -> ?
[05:04] <lamont> Note that because the bug is in the default configuration, ie in the
[05:04] <lamont> initial profile, an existing user will unfortunately not see the fix
[05:04] <lamont> unless they generate a fresh profile. This is unfortunate but we
[05:04] <lamont> don't have a good way of safely and coherently updating existing user
[05:04] <lamont> profiles.
[05:04] <lamont> that is utter crap
[05:04] <lamont> Diziet: you around?
[05:05] <lamont> 33895
[05:05] <pitti> mjg59: *sigh* that requires a fair amount of changes in dbus
[05:06] <pitti> Robot101: ping
[05:08] <Robot101> pitti: pong
[05:08] <pitti> Hi
[05:09] <pitti> Robot101: are you aware of Ubuntu's at_console policy patch?
[05:09] <Kamion> ogra: yeah, should be
[05:09] <pitti> Robot101: for us 'at_console' means 'is at the foreground console', not 'is at any console'
[05:09] <Kamion> lamont: Diziet's on holiday this week I think
[05:10] <Robot101> yeah, painfully aware, because I have a CVS dbus and dapper, so half of the gnome-{screensaver,{power,volume}-manager} stuff is broken for me
[05:10] <pitti> Robot101: we need that because it makes much more sense with g-p-m and such
[05:10] <Robot101> right
[05:11] <pitti> Robot101: I just discovered that our implementation is broken; at_console is only evaluated at policy creation time, not at the time when a function call actually takes place
[05:11] <lamont> Kamion: ah, ok
[05:11] <pitti> Robot101: so two g-p-m's or g-v-m's still race against each other
[05:11] <lamont> Kamion: I just reopened 33895 for him to enjoy when he's back then... :)
[05:11] <ogra> Kamion, thanks
[05:12] <pitti> Robot101: do you think a dbus policy feature like 'is at the foregound console' will ever make it upstream?
[05:12] <pitti> Robot101: if so, do you have some time to discuss it? if not, we should find a different solution for Ubuntu
[05:13] <lamont> http://bld-4.mmjgroup.com/~wb/buildLogs/stats/dapper.stats2.png
[05:13] <lamont> note the kde spike yesterday
[05:13] <Robot101> pitti: I'd be happy to argue in favour of commiting at least a compile-time switchable implementation of at_console
[05:14] <pitti> Robot101: I just noticed that changing dbus this way requires a fair amount of code changes
[05:14] <pitti> so I'll need help with that
[05:14] <Robot101> yeah it's not a trivial patch by any means, and a helper program too
[05:15] <Robot101> I didn't look closely at it yet
[05:15] <pitti> Robot101: the helper program is the easiest part, we already have it :)
[05:15] <Robot101> right, but where's the best place to implement the variable behaviour
[05:17] <pitti> Robot101: if we want it then the check needs to move to the signal/method call handler anyway
[05:17] <pitti> Robot101: and which behaviour takes place is solely determined by _dbus_user_at_console() then
[05:18] <pitti> Robot101: i. e. our's would use the dbus-foreground-console, Fedora might use pam_console, etc.
[05:18] <lamont> neato.
[05:18] <lamont> are my printer settings all supposed to go *poof* on upgrading to dapper?
[05:18] <lamont> or was I just lucky...
[05:19] <pitti> Robot101, mjg59: the altearnative would be to change dbus-foreground-console to dbus-is-foreground-console and call it in g-{p,v}-m themselves; this doesn't enforce policy, but is much easier to implement
[05:19] <Kinnison> dholbach: ping?
[05:21] <Kinnison> pitti: That sounds like it'd give the impression of correctness without the security backing it up. If we can't get it right at the core then I guess so, but I don't like it :-)
[05:21] <dholbach> Kinnison: pong
[05:21] <pitti> Kinnison: full ack
[05:21] <Kinnison> dholbach: I've been reviewing the gparted stuff you sent
[05:22] <Kinnison> dholbach: you expressed concern about needing a 'reload' or something -- can you explain what you meant?
[05:22] <dholbach> Kinnison: how bad is it, doctor?
[05:22] <pitti> Robot101: do you have any idea how Fedora et al solve that problem?
[05:22] <dholbach> Kinnison: does it show up volumes and partitions for you, when you start it?
[05:24] <Kinnison> oh crud, I need to recompile
[05:24] <Kinnison> please wait
[05:24] <dholbach> ok
[05:25] <Kinnison> once it has rebuilt I'll take a closer look
[05:25] <Kinnison> umm, hang on
[05:25] <Kinnison> it refuses to build
[05:25] <Kinnison> privileged.patch is failing
[05:26] <dholbach> um.... it built for me
[05:26] <dholbach> strange
[05:26] <dholbach> even in pbuilder
[05:26] <Kinnison> unpack the source you published in a fresh dir and try
[05:26] <ogra> dholbach, pbuilder update ?
[05:26] <Kinnison> It might be a simple-patchsys bug where it left a patch applied or something
[05:27] <sladen> lamont: how do you manage to get hppa/sparc *above* i386 in those graphs...?
[05:28] <lamont> sladen: it's graph2.
[05:28] <lamont> graph1 (dapper.stats.png) is "installed/total"
[05:28] <lamont> graph2 (dapper.stats2.png) is "installed/(installed+out-of-date)"
[05:28] <lamont> so you get penalized only for out-of-date packages (that built in the past) on graph2
[05:29] <lamont> and hppa/sparc rock. :-)
[05:29] <lamont> although hppa really doesn't like kde, based on the slow recovery.
[05:29] <lamont> new data point in about 45 min or so
[05:34] <lamont> sladen: graph 2 ignores all the crap that an architecture was never able to build before, either.
[05:35] <sladen> lamont: cupsd will crash in an infinite loop (100% CPU) if you run out of dist-upgrade and run out of diskspace during it...
[05:36] <lamont> hrm... anyway, I re-added my printer
[05:37] <dholbach> Kinnison: i uploaded a new .diff.gz and .dsc
[05:38] <Kinnison> dholbach: i'll grab them, one sec
[05:38] <dholbach> Kinnison: thanks a lot... dunno what happened between and now and then...
[05:39] <Kinnison> dholbach: looks better, configuring now
[05:40] <sladen> lamont: apparently that's NOT A BUG.  Since daemons shouldn't be responsible for checking every the return result of every library/syscall because out-of-disk is known is cause badness anyway
[05:40] <lamont> sladen: sigh
[05:41] <lamont> lazy damn programmers.
[05:43] <Kinnison> dholbach: right yes, I see, it just doesn't show
[05:43] <Kinnison> dholbach: how strange
[05:43] <dholbach> i could try with 0.2.3
[05:44] <Kinnison> let me look first
[05:45] <Kinnison> dholbach: right, running it without embedding still needs a refresh to begin
[05:45] <Kinnison> dholbach: most odd
[05:46] <dholbach> yeah :/
[05:46] <mvo> Mithrandir: please hit me hard (or blame gnome-xchat), I haven't read the bits that we are frozen for flight-6 and uploaded a new gnome-app-install and synaptic
[05:46] <dholbach> Kinnison: you think it's a good idea to pester upstream with the patch? :)
[05:46] <Pygi> dholbach: yes, bother upstream ;)
[05:46] <Pygi> I know I wasn't asked, but still :P
[05:47] <Kinnison> dholbach: I'm wondering about the on_signal_show
[05:47] <Mithrandir> mvo: ok. :-/  Disruptive changes?
[05:47] <Kinnison> dholbach: which in theory should be called when the window is shown -- that would cause the refresh
[05:47] <Kinnison> dholbach: IMO we need to attach that signal to somewhere
[05:47] <mvo> Mithrandir: no, not really. minor updates, but I'm not sure about size impact of g-a-i because I updated the application-data
[05:47] <dholbach> Kinnison: right
[05:47] <Kinnison> dholbach: check if 0.2.3 has the same issue, if so then we need to work out why that signal isn't firing
[05:48] <Mithrandir> mvo: 'k, let's hope it works out, then.
[05:48] <mvo> is there a way to prevent g-a-i from building (or cancel it or something)?
[05:48] <dholbach> Kinnison: i'll do that tonight maybe... i'm just writing the hug day announce and then need to run to an appointment - hope you don't mind
[05:48] <ogra> did you say size ?
[05:48] <mvo> ogra: *cough* yes *cough*
[05:48] <ogra> tststs
[05:49] <ogra> (i'll survive i guess, dont worry)
[05:49] <Kinnison> dholbach: of course I don't mind. Just shout when you have the next pass for me to look at (if you need my help subsequently)
[05:49] <Kinnison> dholbach: the rest of the patch seems okay
[05:49] <dholbach> Kinnison: thanks a lot
[05:49] <mvo> ogra: from the look of it it *seems* like the size is identical *puuhhhh*
[05:49] <dholbach> I personally feel this is very much worthwhile.
[05:50] <Kinnison> dholbach: there's a little wart
[05:50] <Kinnison> dholbach: you make the title of the window conditional on installer_mode
[05:50] <Kinnison> dholbach: *inside* a test for installer_mode
[05:50] <ogra> mvo, i have made as much room as i could, the edubuntu CD could bear another 1-200k 
[05:50] <Kinnison> dholbach: which seems odd
[05:50] <Mithrandir> mvo: we could dep-wait it on something bogus, but I'll rather just spin the live cds now and hope for the best.
[05:50] <ogra> mvo, so it should be fine then
[05:50] <dholbach> Kinnison: oh... I'll make a note to double check that - it sounds indeed odd
[05:50] <Kinnison> dholbach: it's in Win_GParted's constructor
[05:51] <dholbach> merci
[05:52] <Kinnison> kein ahnung
[05:52] <dholbach> haha
[05:53] <ogra> eeek
[05:53] <ogra> amd64 edubuntu install failed
[05:53] <Pygi> ogra: no good :'(
[05:53] <Pygi> ogra: failed on what?
[05:53] <Mithrandir> ogra: because of what?
[05:53] <Kinnison> phone me (cell or landline) if I am needed urgently
[05:54] <Kinnison> otherwise I'll be around in a few hours assuming all goes well
[05:54] <ogra> pitti, Kamion "debconf: Obsolete command TITLE configuring foomatic-filters called"
[05:54] <Mithrandir> Kinnison: uh, wait.
[05:54] <Kinnison> Mithrandir: yes?
[05:54] <Mithrandir> Kinnison: is this critical for flight-6?
[05:54] <ogra> debconf or foomatic ...
[05:54] <Mithrandir> Kinnison: if not, please hold it off until flight 6 is out.
[05:54] <Kinnison> Mithrandir: I don't believe it's urgent for it
[05:54] <Kinnison> Mithrandir: I won't upload
[05:54] <Mithrandir> Kinnison: ok, then you can go and play in the cupboard. :-)
[05:54] <Kinnison> Mithrandir: s/upload/package/ in my statement if it makes you feel better
[05:55] <Mithrandir> Kinnison: it does.
[05:55] <Kinnison> Mithrandir: I won't even take my gpg key into the cupboard
[05:55] <Mithrandir> :-)
[05:55] <Kinnison> sorry, didn't mean to alarm you
[05:56] <ogra> argh 
[05:56] <Mithrandir> Kamion: I'll build livefs-es now, fyi.
[05:56] <ogra> wrong alert, seems my media is broken ...
[05:57] <ogra> (i missed the errors above)
[05:57] <pitti> ogra: *phew*
[06:04] <Kamion> ogra: that debconf error is harmless
[06:04] <Kamion> er, rather, it's not an error, just a warning
[06:04] <Kamion> interesting that ogra could boot amd64 - Mithrandir couldn't earlier
[06:05] <ogra> Kamion, yes, i had the broken pipe error again above ...
[06:05] <Kamion> what broken pipe error?
[06:05] <ogra> and some drive ready seek complete errors above ...
[06:05] <ogra> from debconf ...
[06:05] <Kamion> you're being very vague :)
[06:05] <Mithrandir> Kamion: might be my machine throwing a fit.  I haven't tried on my home amd64.
[06:05] <ogra> i had that last flight as well, where you said immediately that its the media
[06:06] <ogra> its the same error
[06:06] <Kamion> Mithrandir: doesn't boot for me either, but I haven't checked the media
[06:06] <Kamion> all media sucks. kthxbye
[06:07] <Kamion> ogra: DriveReady SeekComplete errors usually indicate media problems, certainly
[06:07] <ogra> nomeata, i meantt the debconf error that i had last flight ..
[06:07] <Kamion> "Broken pipe" means that a process tried to write to a pipe only to find that the other end had closed it
[06:07] <Kamion> in order to work out exactly what that means, context is needed
[06:07] <Mithrandir> Kamion: it worked when I reburned with i386.  And I burned the amd64 version three times, so I somehow doubt it's the media.
[06:07] <ogra> Kamion, i already rebooted ...
[06:08] <ogra> Kamion, just take my word for it, its the same error you identified media breakage in flight 5 with
[06:09] <Kamion> ok
[06:09] <ogra> amd64 still boots fine here btw
[06:09] <Kamion> I suppose the ElTorito boot segment could be b0rked on amd64, but that's very weird given that Edubuntu boots
[06:09] <ogra> -rw-rw-r-- 1 ogra ogra 723605504 2006-03-29 14:40 dapper-install-amd64.iso
[06:09] <ogra> should be the current one 
[06:11] <Mithrandir> ogra: can you try regular ubuntu and see if it works for you?
[06:13] <ogra> Mithrandir, depends how long it takes to rsync that over an edubuntu iso ...
[06:13] <ogra> i'll pull it now
[06:14] <Mithrandir> thx
[06:15] <Kamion> oh, for pity's sake, my BIOS boot order was wrong
[06:15] <Kamion> hmm, but still bad media I think
[06:26] <ogra> back in pkgsel again
[06:48] <janimo> pitti, if evince-gtk is to use the evince translations I guess can just disable /po building and there's no need for langpack.mk
[06:49] <pitti> janimo: I'm still reluctant to approving evince-gtk; it would mean to do all fixes twice
[06:49] <pitti> janimo: this should really be a multibuild source package with two different configure options
[06:50] <janimo> pitti, I agree but I don't see a solution right now
[06:50] <pitti> janimo: how big is the code difference?
[06:51] <janimo> the patch is about 1000 lines
[06:51] <janimo> so the changes are a few hunderd lines
[06:51] <pitti> janimo: it's not possible to merge that with #if .. #else .. #endif ?
[06:52] <janimo> since upstream does not even comment on the patch, does not even refuse it straight out I don't see what else I can do
[06:52] <janimo> pitti, wlel that is the patch basically , ifdef WITH_GNOME stuff
[06:52] <seb128> pitti: it would require me updating the xubuntu patch every time GNOME roll a new tarball if we want evince normal updated with GNOME
[06:53] <seb128> because if the patch conflicts when we get the new version it blocks the update
[06:53] <pitti> seb128: no, that patch should go upstream, of course
[06:54] <janimo> pitti, http://bugzilla.gnome.org/attachment.cgi?id=59636&action=view
[06:54] <janimo> this is how it looks like roughly
[06:55] <ogra> has anybody tested ubuntu i386 already ?
[06:56] <Amaranth_> ooh, flight 6
[06:56] <crimsun> If someone's doing "known issues" for Flight 6, please add a note regarding HDA Intel for certain chipsets will be muted (those using STAC9xxx codecs) due to a brown paper bag paste error. It's already fixed in BenC's git tree.
[06:57] <pitti> janimo: ok, that doesn't look too scary; and upstream doesn't want it?
[06:57] <janimo> pitti, upstream does not comment on it
[06:57] <janimo> except initial comment on my original patch in september
[06:57] <janimo> which they said is unnecessary as there are other areas to improve in evince for performance
[06:59] <janimo> pitti, trust me I don;t like current package split
[06:59] <janimo> I spent way more time on fighting autotools in the evince package than on the code itself
[06:59] <Kamion> Mithrandir: OK, likewise, I have i386 booting but not amd64
[06:59] <pitti> janimo: I believe that :/
[07:00] <janimo> just to keep it up to date with upsteram and debian package
[07:00] <pitti> janimo: so, is evince-gtk the normal evince package plus debian/patches/yourpatch, or is it a forked orig.tar.gz?
[07:00] <ogra> Kamion, Mithrandir, edubuntu amd64 is gold ... testing ubuntu amd64 now
[07:00] <janimo> pitti, regenerated orig.tgz yes
[07:01] <janimo> mostly for autotools
[07:01] <janimo> the debian pacthes are only laucnhpad + configure in the gnome package case too
[07:02] <janimo> so it's orig tar.gz untarred, edit makefiles,autoreconf, recompress
[07:02] <janimo> more or less
[07:03] <pitti> janimo: hm, using evince's orig.tar.gz and calling autoreconf at build time is not an option?
[07:04] <janimo> pitti, that could be I guess, but I did not investigate that much
[07:04] <janimo> I know there are some AUTO_UPDATE cdbs vars is that it?
[07:05] <janimo> but saw some arguments pro and against it in some d-d archives and thought I'd do what most packages do
[07:05] <janimo> that is from what I see not dep on autotools for build
[07:05] <pitti> janimo: well, updating autotools files during build is evil, yes, but a forked orig.tar.gz is even more evil
[07:05] <janimo> true
[07:05] <pitti> janimo: AUTO_UPDATE with tarball.mk doesn't hurt that mach
[07:05] <pitti> s/mach/much/
[07:05] <janimo> I'll look into that then
[07:05] <pitti> oh, evince isn't tarball.mk
[07:05] <janimo> ah, yesit is not
[07:06] <pitti> hm, but still better to have the changes in the diff.gz, I guess
[07:06] <janimo> if you mean tar.gz in tar,gz
[07:06] <janimo> you mean configure changes?
[07:06] <pitti> yes
[07:06] <Mithrandir> Kamion: it might be cosmic radiation or something and fix itself if I rebuild the image?
[07:06] <janimo> ah, I thought nothing betas that in eveilness :)
[07:06] <ogra> Mithrandir, Kamion, i'm in base install now
[07:06] <Kamion> Mithrandir: I'm just making a change to debian-cd to remove elilo configuration from /isolinux/ on amd64
[07:06] <janimo> but seems forked tar.gz does
[07:06] <Kamion> ogra: Ubuntu/amd64?
[07:06] <ogra> yep
[07:06] <robtaylor> Kamion: know much about usbutils?
[07:07] <janimo> s/betas/beats/
[07:07] <pitti> janimo: code changes in debian/patches, and autoreconf changes in the diff.gz is not too evil (or autoconf changes in debian/patches/99_autotools.patch)
[07:07] <Mithrandir> ogra: hmkay.
[07:07] <Kamion> this is insane, how come it breaks for both Mithrandir and me
[07:07] <Kamion> robtaylor: no
[07:07] <ogra> no idea
[07:07] <ogra> but it works fine here
[07:07] <Kamion> I'm tempted to rebuild just amd64 anyway with this debian-cd change, for the hell of it
[07:07] <janimo> seb128, other than the packaging do you have anything against the patch itself?
[07:07] <Kamion> Mithrandir: mind if I kick that off now?
[07:07] <pitti> reminds me of the refusal of my computer to boot the Kubuntu amd64 back then
[07:07] <Mithrandir> Kamion: please do.
[07:07] <ogra> just leave out edubuntu, its already tested and fine :)
[07:08] <Kamion> Mithrandir: have you tried amd64 live?
[07:08] <Mithrandir> Kamion: no, I haven't had time to generate images, just the livefs-es.
[07:08] <seb128> janimo: I've not looked at the code but in principle no
[07:08] <seb128> janimo: but that's upstream call
[07:08] <janimo> pitti,seb128 I'll write to upstream and ask them to at leats comment on the patch
[07:09] <Mithrandir> Kamion: but the previous live cds worked fine.
[07:09] <ogra> here as well
[07:09] <Kamion> Mithrandir: how about previous install CDs?
[07:09] <ogra> (ppc untested)
[07:09] <janimo> then if they do not want it I'll redo it as pitti suggests
[07:09] <Kamion> like, yesterday's?
[07:09] <pitti> janimo: alright
[07:09] <pitti> janimo: /me crosses fingers
[07:09] <Mithrandir> Kamion: I haven't booted amd64 install cds for a little while
[07:09] <janimo> pitti,, thanks :)
[07:09] <ogra> Kamion, edubuntu worked yesterday too 
[07:09] <Kamion> Mithrandir: might be worth rsyncing back a day or so to see
[07:09] <Kamion> ogra: it all seems to be working for you, though :)
[07:09] <ogra> yep 
[07:10] <ogra> i'm lucky today it seems
[07:10] <Mithrandir> Kamion: I don't have the install cd here, but downloading now.  ETA ~15 minutes.
[07:10] <Kamion> Mithrandir: your network is too fast
[07:10] <Mithrandir> Kamion: only 6.5Mbit or so.
[07:10] <Kamion> like I said
[07:10] <ogra> thats 10x mine 
[07:10] <Mithrandir> it's not fast enough to burn directly off the network, though.
[07:11] <Kamion> that would be obscene
[07:11] <ogra> heh
[07:11] <j^> Mithrandir if you burn slow 
[07:11] <Mithrandir> it would be a university network.
[07:11] <Mithrandir> j^: growisofs probably copes just fine, since it burns 32k blocks and doesn't have the madness associated with burning cds, so.
[07:12] <robtaylor> sivang: ping?
[07:15] <Kamion> Mithrandir: new amd64 CD up
[07:21] <Mithrandir> Kamion: I'll grab the lock to build live images, ok?
[07:21] <lifeless> I get prompted for keyboard settings to use at login
[07:21] <lifeless> is that known or should I file a bug ?
[07:21] <ogra> Mithrandir, again ?
[07:22] <Kamion> Mithrandir: yes
[07:22] <Mithrandir> ogra: I haven't build live images, just live fs-es.
[07:22] <ogra> ah, k
[07:23] <ogra> but i was already wondering why you didnt say the new isos are ready :)
[07:31] <sivang> robtaylor: pong
[07:31] <robtaylor> sivang: i noticed you did some initscripts work?
[07:32] <robtaylor> sivang: know much about the /proc/bus/usb move?
[07:33] <sivang> robtaylor: that would be Keybuk that should know about this, although I thin he's on vacation or something :)
[07:33] <Mithrandir> Kamion: grr.  AMD64 install cd (old) boots fine on my home amd64.
[07:33] <sivang> robtaylor: what do you mean 'move' ?
[07:34] <Kamion> Mithrandir: huh, ok
[07:34] <Kamion> bit scary though
[07:35] <Mithrandir> Kamion: yeah.  I'll test the new one too, but I can't trash this install, so I won't be able to do installation tests from here.
[07:35] <robtaylor> sivang: well usbfs used to get mounted on /proc/bus/usb, not its only mounted on /dev/bus/usb. i was just checking that its deliberate that its nolonger there
[07:35] <robtaylor> but i might try asking petter
[07:36] <siretart> pitti: do you have a minute? may I query you?
[07:37] <j^> robtaylor afaik /proc/bus/usb != /dev/bus/usb
[07:38] <robtaylor> j^: hmm, yes i think you're right
[07:38] <sivang> robtaylor: ah well, that would be keybuk that would know about it then :)
[07:40] <robtaylor> gosh, it seems to be mounted now. guess it must have been some transitional error
[07:40] <ogra> Mithrandir, Kamion, hmm, ubunrtu failed here with a missing libsane (which appears to be in /pool)
[07:40] <Mithrandir> ogra: bad media again?
[07:40] <ogra> might be
[07:41] <ogra> without less in the installer diggin through syslog is a pain
[07:41] <pitti> siretart: go ahead
[07:42] <Mithrandir> ogra: use nano?
[07:43] <ogra> yes, thats what i'm doing ... aside from grep and tail ..
[07:43] <ogra> still i'm missing less
[07:43] <ogra> and vi
[07:44] <ogra> Mithrandir, ah, found it ... bad media again ...
[07:46] <ogra> Kamion, Error in buffer_read(stream): couldnt write to pipe ... (thats the debconf error i get witrh bad media)
[07:46] <ogra> err, dpkg-deb
[07:48] <Kamion> ogra: oh, right, yeah
[07:48] <Kamion> ogra: but that's nothing to do with debconf, which is why I was confused
[07:48] <Kamion> as you say, dpkg-dev
[07:48] <Kamion> dpkg-deb
[07:48] <ogra> yeah, i mixed that up
[07:50] <ogra> Mithrandir, mine are expensive too, but the cats like to play with them and drop the on the floor ... so they get scratches
[07:52] <Mithrandir> ogra: keep them in a folder or the drive or something. :-)
[07:52] <ogra> i have a box but i'm lazy ...
[07:52] <ogra> apart from that it would totally take the excitement out of the image testing
[07:59] <sladen> mjg59: imacfb shows up in sysfs even on none Mactels.  Does it need to modularised?
[08:07] <Mithrandir> Kamion: fwiw, the new images get me to the boot loader too.
[08:07] <Mithrandir> Kamion: do they work for you?
[08:07] <Kamion> Mithrandir: I'm sort of distracted by a laptop hard drive failure, sorry
[08:08] <Kamion> which due to over-intricate details of study networking means that I can't download any more images now
[08:08] <Mithrandir> Kamion: ew.  Take care.
[08:08] <Kamion> but if Ubuntu/amd64's working now, cool
[08:08] <Mithrandir> well, I'm not going to ride my bike downtown to check on the machine where it failed earlier today.  At least not until tomorrow morning.
[08:09] <Mithrandir> Burgwork: what does CategoryCleanup in the wiki mean?  "Should be removed" or "Needs updating"?
[08:10] <Burgwork> Mithrandir, needs cleanup of some kind
[08:10] <Burgwork> Mithrandir, needs to be removed means gone. We don't have a category for that
[08:10] <Mithrandir> Burgwork: ok.
[08:11] <Burgwork> Mithrandir, got a specific page in mind?
[08:12] <Mithrandir> Burgwork: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LiveCDCustomizationHowTo 
[08:12] <Mithrandir> Burgwork: also w.u.c/LiveCD should probably just be removed.
[08:15] <ogra> Mithrandir, did you only build ubuntu live isos ? 
[08:16] <Mithrandir> ogra: Kamion built install ISOs.
[08:16] <ogra> Mithrandir, what about the livefs builds you had no isos for yet 
[08:17] <ogra> i thought you started an iso build
[08:18] <ogra> "<Mithrandir> Kamion: I'll grab the lock to build live images, ok?"
[08:18] <Mithrandir> ogra: oh, yes, those are done now.
[08:18] <Burgwork> Mithrandir, are you going to update the Customization page?
[08:18] <ogra> you didnt do edubuntu then 
[08:18] <ogra> thats what i wanted to know :)
[08:18] <Mithrandir> Burgwork: considering it.  Or rather, wondering how to do it for dapper, since the process is different there.
[08:25] <trappist> Burgwork: did you get my pmsg
[08:25] <Burgwork> trappist, check (busy at work)
[08:54] <ogra> Mithrandir, i end up at GDM in edubuntu live i386
[08:55] <ogra> login as ubuntu without password works fine though
[08:55] <ogra> and NM doesnt work at all
[08:56] <Simira> ogra: Mithrandir has gone to the work of Oblivion
[08:56] <Simira> world, even
[08:57] <Simira> he's pretty busy kicking some orc ass
[08:57] <ogra> hmm
[08:58] <HiddenWolf> Simira: him too? :)
[08:58] <Simira> HiddenWolf: who else?
[08:59] <sivang> Simira: kicking orcs?
[08:59] <sivang> what the..
[08:59] <HiddenWolf> sivang: game, don't ask, don't buy, addictive
[08:59] <bddebian> Morrowind?
[08:59] <bddebian> Err Elder Scrolls?
[09:00] <sivang> HiddenWolf: related to LOTR ?
[09:00] <Simira> sivang: no, not really
[09:01] <Simira> tihi
[09:01] <Simira> all can happen now
[09:02] <HiddenWolf> sivang: The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion
[09:02] <HiddenWolf> sivang: the game that lets you play for weeks on end if you want to.
[09:02] <bddebian> No shit, I just re-fired up Morrowind
[09:05] <Mithrandir> ogra: *sigh*, ok.
[09:05] <Mithrandir> bddebian: Elder Scrolls+1
[09:06] <bddebian> Mithrandir: Yeah, my wife got me the expansions for my birthday and I never got through Morrowind itself.
[09:06] <jcole> um, i have lvm installed on breezy where it installed lilo... for some reason, after upgrading the kernel and running lilo, my system will not boot... i've booted and chrooted using the livecd and trying to figure out how to fix this
[09:11] <ranf> hi
[09:40] <Pygi> siretart, pitti, around?
[09:50] <sivang> Pygi: pitti is off for some marshal arts 
[09:50] <tseng> martial
[09:50] <Burgwork> sivang, he is leading armies now? :)
[09:50] <Pygi> sivang: ah, thanks ;)
[09:51] <Burgwork> sivang, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marshal
[09:59] <KiKKuM1> if anyone with a bit of initrd & custom kernel knowledge has some spare time, could you please take a look at http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=148710
[10:00] <sivang> tseng: yes, yay for my non existant english spelling
[10:00] <sivang> Burgwork: who knows :)
[10:01] <KiKKuM1> in short: compiling a custom kernel (with make-kpkg) gives a bunch of strange messages before usplash loads and it seems to be because of something in initrd, because when initrd isn't loaded, the messages don't show up
[10:01] <sivang> Burgwork: so they were only stable keeprs? :-)
[10:26] <sladen> KiKKuM1: sudo update-initramfs -u `uname -r`
[10:28] <sladen> KiKKuM1: and don't expect hibernate/suspend to work with anything other than  vga16fb
[10:29] <sladen> KiKKuM1: ...and please ask #ubuntu in future
[10:31] <trappist> shouldn't update-initramfs happen automatically?
[10:31] <sladen> trappist: depends whether people compile their own crack or not...
[10:31] <trappist> I mean with a make-kpkg-built kernel
[10:37] <KiKKuM1> sladen: thanks i'll try that
[10:47] <sivang> sladen: when a pakcage goes like subprocess post-installation script returned error exit status 1 , where can  I find logs to see what happened?
[10:47] <crimsun> use dpkg -i directly
[10:47] <crimsun> it tends to be more verbose
[10:47] <sivang> crimsun: I do
[10:48] <sivang> maybe I should add a -v for verbosity?
[10:48] <crimsun> -D#
[10:49] <crimsun> (see -Dh)
[10:49] <Nafallo> hmm, anyone else have troubles with DMA on dapper? and is {,ide_}generic supposed to be loaded?
[11:09] <mjg59> sladen: That would currently be awkward
[11:18] <mjg59> imacfb being modular
[11:26] <Riddell> Mithrandir: what's flight 6 status?
[11:34] <sladen> mjg59: or was that re: the bug question about laptop-mode in sleep.sh aswell as spindown?
[11:34] <sladen> mjg59: aahh, imacfb, sorry
[11:49] <sabdfl> evenin' all
[11:49] <Pygi> evenin' sabdfl
[11:49] <sabdfl> should i wait for 6 to take Flight?
[11:50] <sabdfl> infinity, Mithrandir, is that due tomorrow or friday?
[11:50] <sabdfl> i've a new laptop and want to add to the LaptopTesting collection
[11:50] <infinity> I'm just waking up, but if I can get a status update from Mithrandir this morning, I can go ahead and forge on with Flight-6 testing. :)
[11:51] <sabdfl> superb. good morning!
[11:51] <infinity> sabdfl: I hope you didn't find one even smaller than that Toshiba I was borrowing in London...
[11:51] <sabdfl> i'll plan to do that this weekend then, with flight 6
[11:51] <sabdfl> infinity: it's about exactly the size of my last one...
[11:51] <sabdfl> x60 replacement for x40
[11:51] <infinity> sabdfl: Oh, you got an X60, didn't you?
[11:52] <infinity> I hate you. :)
[11:52] <sabdfl> so nice you can say that with a smile
[11:52] <sabdfl> :-)
[11:52] <KaiL> Pygi, some news?
[11:52] <infinity> For no valid reason, except sheer gear lust, you understand.
[11:52] <sabdfl> mdz: ping
[11:52] <Pygi> KaiL: news for what? :-/
[11:52] <KaiL> all the bugs
[11:52] <infinity> sabdfl: Which wireless option did oyu get with the X60?  Intel, or IBM?
[11:53] <sabdfl> infinity: lust keeps us all moving forward, one way or another :-)
[11:53] <Pygi> KaiL: bah, we got so much more bugs :-P
[11:53] <sabdfl> infinity: dunno, turned it on and it started a windows install, so i turned it off again
[11:53] <infinity> sabdfl: We won't support the Intel wireless yet (welcome to being the ubuntu-kernel guinea pig, though!), and the IBM (atheros) will be sketchy at best.
[11:53] <sabdfl> want to do a virgin "I know nutting" espresso install
[11:53] <sabdfl> oh, lord, please tell me wifi will work for dapper!
[11:54] <Pygi> sabdfl: we are workin' on that :)
[11:54] <crimsun> sabdfl: keep in mind your sound won't work; see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LaptopTestingTeam/ThinkpadX60s
[11:54] <Kamion> sivang: edit /var/log/dpkg/info/whatever.postinst, put 'set -x' near the top, and try again
[11:54] <infinity> sabdfl: I suspect our support of the n60 series Thinkpads is currently still abysmal, but we should find the hard drive, get an OS on there, and your wired ethernet should work, which is enough for us to get double-time cracking on making your other hardware work, now that someone finally HAS one of the stupid things in their hands.
[11:54] <KaiL> bug 35194
[11:54] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 35194 in xserver-xorg-driver-ati "activated but not usable on X1xxx" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/35194
[11:55] <KaiL> getting some dirty workaround for that into flight 6 would be also nice
[11:55] <infinity> KaiL: Yes, and that.  X1xxx should be vesa for now.
[11:55] <Pygi> sabdfl: by the time the dapper is out, everything about n-m, drivers, and wpasupplicant should be in order ... as much as we can do it, ofcourse ^_^
[11:55] <infinity> sladen: Are you still loving discover1-data?
[11:55] <sabdfl> ok, happy to be the guinnea pig
[11:55] <sabdfl> Pygi: that's awesome
[11:55] <infinity> sabdfl: I kept hunting for a T60, so I could guine-pig myself, but they're hard to come by in .au (as is anything new)
[11:56] <sabdfl> Pygi: i download 0.6.1, and it's not working for me :-/
[11:56] <Pygi> sabdfl: what's the issue? drivers, what wpasupplicant? more info please ;)
[11:56] <Pygi> followed wiki? :)
[11:56] <infinity> wiki, schmicki.
[11:56] <KaiL> sabdfl, welcome to the club - everything else would be a bigger surprise :/
[11:56] <infinity> The NM packages from the archive should work OOTB, or we've failed miserably. :)
[11:56] <sabdfl> Pygi: interestingly the eth1 comes up fine, but the NM applet is saying "no network devices found"
[11:57] <KaiL> hmm...
[11:57] <Pygi> sabdfl: ah, yes, it is know to report that :-/
[11:57] <infinity> sabdfl: NM in the archive currently segfaults *cough* if you have any configuration in your iface stanza other than "iface foo inet dhcp"
[11:57] <KaiL> we had that on one chip, which needs an ifconfig up before
[11:57] <Pygi> sabdfl: As much as I understand Collin, I think we'll get UVF exception aprovall, so we'll update it all to 0.6.2
[11:57] <infinity> sabdfl: (ie: If you've specified address, wireless-mode, etc)
[11:57] <Pygi> sabdfl: it has a lot of bugfixes
[11:57] <infinity> sabdfl: Other than that embarassing SEGV on config parsing, it seems to work, if you're up-to-date, as of today.
[11:58] <sabdfl> ok, i'll test and test some more
[11:58] <Kamion> Pygi: trusting of course that you have a pet ubuntu-core-dev member to do it for you
[11:58] <infinity> I've already done a few anyway.
[11:58] <infinity> TILM, FTW.
[11:59] <Pygi> yup, you did indeed infinity :P
[11:59] <Kamion> dear rsync, stop uselessly backing up ~/.arch-revlib/, love Colin
[11:59] <G0SUB> hehe
[11:59] <Pygi> sabdfl: as much as I am aware, we should have network-manager-kde for you soon in universe
[12:00] <infinity> Pygi: That's pretty rockin' news.
[12:00] <sabdfl> very rocking indeed!
[12:00] <Pygi> infinity, sabdfl: yes, yes ^_^
[12:01] <KaiL> sabdfl, zd1211 USB WLAN chip? Else you have found a new bug ;)
[12:01] <Lure> sabdfl: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2220
[12:02] <Riddell> Pygi: just finished uploading network-manager-kde
[12:02] <KaiL> ah, wait, here's a second
[12:02] <Lure> Riddell: cool!
[12:02] <Pygi> sabdfl: I would preffer if we would have no applet, and everything about n-m/wpasupplicant worked well :)
[12:02] <Pygi> infinity, sabdfl: there, you now have network-manager-kde ;)
[12:02] <Pygi> Enjoy it while you can ^_^
[12:02] <KaiL> Riddell, in which package is the X-config tool in kubuntu? might be usefull for gnome- and xfce-users too...