[05:46] <mlalkaka> i have an idea for the ubuntu wiki: we should create a page called UbuntuTutorials. On that page, as you probably expect, there would be tutorials on how to use Ubuntu Linux. but the tutorials should be video tutorials (with a narrator). programs like xvidcap or istanbul could be used to record the audio/video, and we could save it in ogg theora, so there are no patent problems.
[05:46] <mlalkaka> what do you people think?
[05:49] <LaserJock> hmm, sounds like a lot of bandwith but it could be kinda fun
[05:50] <Burgundavia> that would be a great idea
[05:50] <robotgeek> mlalkaka: yup. 
[05:50] <Burgundavia> why not use byznaz instead?
[05:51] <Burgundavia> that gets us gifs, and can actually be a wiki page
[05:51] <robotgeek> i guess someone needs to start off with a tutorial on how to make those videos
[05:51] <mlalkaka> Burgundavia, i haven't heard of it until now.
[05:52] <Burgundavia> mlalkaka: byznaz is a screen recorder, that makes gifs
[05:52] <Burgundavia> it is fairly new
[05:53] <mgalvin> could someone ping me for a screenshot on the flight 6 review?
[05:53] <trappist> my kingdom for one that makes mpegs
[05:53] <Burgundavia> trappist: mpegs are non-free
[05:53] <Burgundavia> ogg or gif (ick) only
[05:53] <Burgundavia> likely flash
[05:53] <mlalkaka> Burgundavia, that would work well
[05:54] <trappist> aren't gifs patent-encumbered?
[05:54] <trappist> or that expired
[05:54] <robotgeek> yeah, that too :)
[05:54] <mlalkaka> mgalvin, i'll ping you; what's your ip?
[05:54] <Burgundavia> gifs are no longer patent encumber, I believ
[05:54] <robotgeek> http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/gif.html
[05:54] <mlalkaka> i think the Unisys' patent expired in 2003.
[05:55] <mgalvin> mlalkaka: i mean just send me a message with my nick in it like you just did, i need a notification screenshot, but i need to have the window minimized first
[05:55] <mlalkaka> oh ok
[05:55] <mgalvin> send a little msg in like 5 sec
[05:55] <Burgundavia> mlalkaka: various patents expire at various times
[05:56] <mlalkaka> mgalvin, How are you today?
[05:56] <mgalvin> mlalkaka: great thanks! :)
[05:56] <mlalkaka> mgalvin, no prob.
[05:56] <mlalkaka> Burgundavia, do you know byznaz's website?
[05:57] <Burgundavia> mlalkaka: no, but is available in dapper
[05:57] <Burgundavia> it likely doesn't have one
[05:58] <mgalvin> mlalkaka: just sudo apt-get install byznaz
[05:58] <mgalvin> there is not site
[05:58] <mgalvin> just byznaz --help
[05:58] <mgalvin> it works well, it used it for...
[05:58] <mlalkaka> i'm still running breezy, and it's not in breezy repositories
[05:58] <mgalvin> https://www-master.ubuntu.com/testing/flight5#head-d0b765295e82254f427c986d82e19149909ba70f
[05:58] <mgalvin> ah
[05:59] <robotgeek> mgalvin: auth
[05:59] <mgalvin> oops
[05:59] <mgalvin> http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/flight5#head-d0b765295e82254f427c986d82e19149909ba70f
[05:59] <mlalkaka> but what about sound? we'll need a narrator
[06:00] <mgalvin> gifs could be used for the more simple things and demos and such just to keep size down, you would still need ogg or something for those
[06:01] <mlalkaka> mgalvin, i'm guessing you used it for the shutdown sequence? how did you shutdown sequence, though? xnest?
[06:02] <mgalvin> in vmware player, or you could use qemu
[06:02] <mgalvin> i just use vmware player b/c its free now and much faster than qemu
[06:02] <Burgundavia> mlalkaka: sound would be nice, but not critical
[06:03] <Burgundavia> mlalkaka: plus once you involve sound, it gets more difficult to produce and thus more time and thus is unlikely to be done
[06:03] <mlalkaka> Burgundavia, lol true
[06:03] <mlalkaka> mgalvin, what's the difference between vmware player and vmware?
[06:04] <trappist> you can't make new vms or modify the vm in the player
[06:04] <mgalvin> mlalkaka: vmware player only plays existing images
[06:05] <mgalvin> but you can create the images with qemu
[06:05] <mgalvin> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/VMwarePlayerAndQemu
[06:06] <Burgundavia> vmware player is evil
[06:06] <Burgundavia> we should not be producing documtation with that
[06:06] <mlalkaka> Burgundavia, we won't have to, don't worry. i was just asking out of curiosity
[06:11] <mgalvin> only semi evil, i just don't normally have time to wait around to qemu, even on 64 bit machines its slow
[06:11] <Burgundavia> qemu is slow
[06:11] <Burgundavia> installing extra software for help == very very bad
[06:11] <Burgundavia> regardless of it status
[06:12] <mgalvin> i know, i know
[06:13] <mgalvin> if its any consolation, i do use qemu when i am not pressed for time :)
[06:13] <Burgundavia> let me get you a screencast of the deskbar at work
[06:13] <mgalvin> go for it, that would be great
[06:13] <robotgeek> Burgundavia: that would be nice to see
[06:14] <robotgeek> i just love konqueror's features. plus io slaves in kde are just awesome 
[06:15] <mlalkaka> what do you think the first tutorial should be?
[06:15] <robotgeek> how to make a screencast :)
[06:15] <mgalvin> i was thinking of adding some kubuntu and edubuntu stuff to DapperFlight6 this time around, any opinions?
[06:15] <mgalvin> robotgeek: good choice :)
[06:16] <mgalvin> +1
[06:16] <robotgeek> mgalvin: +1 on the (edu)/kubuntu stuff, if it doesn't clutter 
[06:16] <mgalvin> yea, i don't want it to be a big mess
[06:17] <robotgeek> mgalvin: even for kubuntu?
[06:17] <Burgundavia> mgalvin: I wouldn't
[06:17] <Burgundavia> you get a diluted marketing effect
[06:18] <Burgundavia> is: People wondering which piece is for which deriv
[06:18] <Burgundavia> however, Kubuntu
[06:18] <Burgundavia> a seperate page for Kubuntu and Edubuntu would be great
[06:18] <crimsun> F6 tomorrow? Geez I hope not. 2.6.15-19.29 can't go out in F6.
[06:22] <mlalkaka> can i create a wiki page with a normal account?
[06:22] <mgalvin> mlalkaka: yup
[06:22] <mgalvin> on wiki.ubuntu.com, yes
[06:23] <mlalkaka> mgalvin, how?
[06:23] <Burgundavia> mlalkaka: just go the page you want to create and click edit
[06:24] <mlalkaka> lol oh
[06:25] <Burgundavia> mgalvin: got a deskbar screencast, should I upload it?
[06:25] <mgalvin> robotgeek, crimsun: thats not a hard date, just a possible target date, if something is that broken it will probably be toward the end of the week, we shall see, the flights kindda happen whenever its ready
[06:26] <mgalvin> Burgundavia: great, thanks, go ahead
[06:26] <mgalvin> Burgundavia: and... good point... i will not include k/edu stuff
[06:28] <Burgundavia> mgalvin: how do I get gifs to cycle?
[06:28] <Burgundavia> can I edit that in the gimp?
[06:30] <mgalvin> Burgundavia: well i used byzanz with -l and set cords
[06:30] <mgalvin> Burgundavia
[06:30] <mgalvin> byzanz-record -l ...
[06:31] <Burgundavia> ah, -l
[06:32] <Burgundavia> hmm, I ticked "search Yahoo", but it doesnt' seem to be doing it
[06:33] <Burgundavia> oh, wait it takes a second
[06:33] <mgalvin> darn internet, making us wait, whats with that ;)
[06:35] <Burgundavia> excellent, got a great screencast
[06:37] <mgalvin> Burgundavia: sweet, thanks!
[06:37] <robotgeek> Burgundavia: do you mind showing me too :)
[06:38] <Burgundavia> already up on DapperFlight6
[06:38] <robotgeek> Burgundavia: ah, okay
[06:40] <robotgeek> thanks, looks neat. kio-beagle in konqueror is also convienient
[06:43] <Burgundavia> mgalvin: the theme just changed, so you might want to reshot the screenshots
[06:44] <Burgundavia> mgalvin: I would also point you at ReportingBugs for the section on repoting bugs
[06:45] <Burgundavia> mlalkaka: do you have an idea for a good first screencast?
[06:45] <robotgeek> Burgundavia: i'm sorry, i lost the link to byznaz 
[06:45] <Burgundavia> robotgeek: apt-get install byzanz
[06:46] <robotgeek> i keep mistyping the thing
[06:46] <mlalkaka> Burgundavia, robotgeek had the idea to make a screencast about making screencasts, so that the community can start contributing as soon as possible.
[06:46] <Burgundavia> not certain that is the sort of thing that needs to be screencast
[06:47] <Burgundavia> but I could document the way I made this screencast
[06:49] <mgalvin> Burgundavia: i pulled that reporting bugs content from DapperReleaseNotes, but anyway, that is a good start page, i will change it
[06:49] <Burgundavia> ReportingBugs does need some cleanup
[06:49] <mlalkaka> Burgundavia, ok. well i think the first thing a new user needs to do (at least for many things), is to add the universe and multiverse repositories. a user who installed from cd would also need to change main and restricted repositories to the up-to-date internet repositories.
[06:49] <mgalvin> bah, i thought i got ubuntulook 10... is it really that different
[06:51] <Burgundavia> mgalvin: it just changed
[06:52] <mgalvin> Burgundavia: what are the rev numbers, i didn't see the Accepted msg go by?
[06:52] <Burgundavia> hmm
[06:52] <Burgundavia> you might be right
[06:52] <mgalvin> i have ubuntulooks 0.9.9-1 and ubuntu-artwork-10
[06:53] <Burgundavia> that is the latest
[06:54] <rob> hi
[06:54] <mgalvin> whew, ok good
[06:55] <mgalvin> is there a new name for it or can i call it Carmelicious ;)
[07:02] <Burgundavia> nope
[07:02] <Burgundavia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CreatingScreencasts
[07:06] <Madpilot> nice tutorial, Burgundavia 
[07:07] <Burgundavia> want to write the ogg section?
[07:07] <mgalvin> cool
[07:13] <mlalkaka> Burgundavia, that was pretty fast
[07:13] <Burgundavia> mlalkaka: I move quickly when I want to
[07:13] <mlalkaka> UbuntuTutorials is up, and links to CreatingScreencasts.
[07:13] <mlalkaka> lol
[07:14] <Burgundavia> mlalkaka: I would move that UbuntuTutorials to UbuntuVideoTutorials
[07:15] <mlalkaka> Burgundavia, you're right, it's better to be specific
[07:17] <Burgundavia> I met on the TTC guys at UBZ and he was interested in video tutorials
[07:17] <Burgundavia> TTC = Tactical Technology 
[07:17] <Burgundavia> Collective
[07:17] <mlalkaka> Burgundavia, how do i delete the UbuntuTutorial page now?
[07:17] <Burgundavia> they help NGO's with technology
[07:17] <Burgundavia> mlalkaka: more actions --> rename page
[07:28] <mlalkaka> alright i gtg
[07:28] <mlalkaka> thanks for all the help/input
[07:28] <mlalkaka> i've started a list of suggested tutorials on UbuntuVideoTutorials, in case anyone comes up with some good ones.
[07:30] <robotgeek> mlalkaka: cool. let's hope we are able to build on this
[07:31] <mlalkaka> robotgeek, i hope so too. i have my semester finals in two weeks, but i'll try to get started. if not, i'll start after my finals
[07:31] <Burgundavia> we need to fix up /Projects to be more inviting to someone new
[08:44] <Madpilot> Burgundavia, so does that searchbar thing in Dapper only use Yahoo search for web stuff? Can you point it to other search engines instead?
[08:45] <Burgundavia> Madpilot: yes, you can use google, but you need a key
[08:45] <Burgundavia> each user has to generate that key
[08:46] <Burgundavia> and deskbar needs  nice way of graphically taking that key, as currently you need to hack some stuff
[09:05] <mdke> morning
[09:06] <Burgundavia> morning mdke
[09:07] <mdke> hi corey
[09:38] <Madpilot> Burgundavia, sorry, was afk - by 'key' you mean a Google cookie thing, more or less?
[09:39] <Burgundavia> Madpilot: I think so
[09:40] <Burgundavia> install deskbar-applet and see for yourself
[09:40] <Madpilot> Burgundavia, did you watch that Novell user vid?
[09:41] <Burgundavia> nope, been working on my book
[09:41] <Burgundavia> I have tortured myself with a few of those videos
[09:42] <Madpilot> this one was quite painful, WRT the actual utility of screenshots in docs...
[09:43] <robitaille> Madpilot:  did you manage to get the sound?
[09:43] <Madpilot> robitaille, nope - might have to try something other than totem-xine
[09:47] <janimo> hello
[09:47] <janimo> is it now easier to get svn access to the doc repo than it used too?
[09:47] <janimo> there are some people interested in keeping xubuntu-docs there
[09:48] <Burgundavia> janimo: the general rule is patches then access, but if someone has some work elsewhere we can look it, we can accelerate the process
[09:49] <janimo> Burgundavia: thanks I'll tell the person to come to this channel and talk about it
[09:49] <Burgundavia> janimo: thanks
[09:49] <Madpilot> given that we have no xubuntu-docs in our SVN at all AFAIK, patches would be kind of hard... :P
[09:49] <Burgundavia> Madpilot: patches can add stuff
[09:49] <janimo> he is making a xubuntu-desktop-guide based on the ubuntu one
[09:50] <Madpilot> Burgundavia, true
[09:50] <Burgundavia> but if they are adding new docs, they can just send the file for an inital import
[09:51] <Madpilot> janimo, cool - UDG has already been "ported" to Kubuntu DG, nice to see it's going to Xubuntu as well
[09:51] <janimo> Madpilot: yes :)
[09:51] <janimo> it is even closer to the ubuntu one than kubuntu
[09:51] <janimo> more apps are shared
[09:53] <Madpilot> janimo, are you (and the XDG author) on the docteam mailing list?
[09:53] <janimo> Madpilot: nope
[09:53] <janimo> I can start tracking that though
[09:53] <janimo> through gmane
[09:53] <Madpilot> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/Contact <-- janimo 
[09:54] <janimo> ok 'subscribed' :)
[09:55] <janimo> was there a plan for switching doc team to bzr?
[10:05] <mdke> a vague one, but nothing particularly concrete yet
[10:59] <Burgundavia> night
[11:02] <Madpilot> night
[07:10] <Burgwork> anybody around who knows printers well?
[07:11] <trappist> I recently successfully troubleshot both of mine and learned a lot, if that counts - but as they say in the support channels, just ask your question :)
[07:12] <Burgwork> no, I am looking for somebody to write some stuff about printers for pay
[07:12] <trappist> ah.  that's not me but I know somebody
[09:59] <Skirka> hello
[09:59] <LaserJock> hi Skirka 
[10:00] <Skirka> is there documentation somewhere that explains how to install ubuntu and be able to dual boot with windows?
[10:00] <LaserJock> Skirka: I'm pretty sure there is something on wiki.ubuntu.com
[10:00] <Skirka> thanks
[10:01] <luzi> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WindowsDualBootHowTo
[10:01] <luzi> hey, i've started some work on a xubuntu desktop guide and have some questions.
[10:02] <robotgeek> luzi: go ahead. 
[10:03] <luzi> i've heard that ubuntu-doc people would be willing to integrate it in their svn repository.
[10:03] <Burgwork> yep
[10:04] <luzi> you can check out a 'demo' at http://www.doink.ch/xubuntu-doc/build/xubuntu/desktopguide/C/index.html
[10:04] <luzi> and a tarball at http://www.doink.ch/xubuntu-doc/xubuntu-doc-firststeps.tar.gz
[10:05] <robotgeek> luzi: looks nice, but if it needs to go out with dapper, the string freeze is april 6th
[10:06] <luzi> oh. that's very little time, i'm afraid...
[10:08] <Burgwork> luzi, yes. You might be able to a specific exemption for it
[10:08] <robotgeek> luzi: i think you might want to mail the list with this link
[10:08] <luzi> ok, i'll mail to the list then. 
[10:09] <luzi> so do i just wait for someone to put in svn, and then send patches?
[10:09] <luzi> i'm kinda new to all this...
[10:10] <trappist> Burgwork: lemme know if you still need a printer god
[10:10] <robotgeek> luzi: well, the general procedure is that someone will put it in the repository and you will keep sending in patches
[10:12] <luzi> ok, and how about images? for example, i modified the 'admon' pictures, because they were renedered against a white background.
[10:15] <robotgeek> luzi: admon?
[10:16] <luzi> i mean the images for 'caution', 'important', 'tip', ... in ubuntu-doc/common/admon
[10:16] <robotgeek> luzi: no a good idea, the rest of the docs use those
[10:17] <robotgeek> luzi: you can have images elsewhere tho
[10:19] <luzi> yeah, but i think duplicating the images wouldn't make sense. instead, they 'common' images should be rendered against a transparent background, which would suit everyone.
[10:19] <luzi> s/they/the/
[10:21] <robotgeek> luzi: include that also in your email to the list :) i have no clue about images/transparency related issues
[11:06] <mdke> I'm not so sure the string freeze will necessarily have to apply for an xubuntu doc
[11:07] <mdke> there's no indication that edubuntu is going to be bound by it, so there's no reason xubuntu should too, unless they want to translate the documentation
[11:07] <mdke> luzi, ^
[11:12] <luzi> ok, good.
[11:13] <luzi> i don't think there's going to be translation for a while.
[11:14] <mdke> you haven't used much of the ubuntu desktop guide, perhaps you can copy some more of it
[11:14] <mdke> nice start though
[11:15] <mdke> where's the code?
[11:15] <robotgeek> luzi: also look at kubuntu :)
[11:15] <robotgeek> i copied over lot of stuff from ubuntu desktop guide (udg)
[11:16] <luzi> thanks! you can get the code at http://www.doink.ch/xubuntu-doc/xubuntu-doc-firststeps.tar.gz
[11:16] <mdke> luzi, is anyone else helping you out?
[11:16] <luzi> yeah, i hope to copy quite a bit of the good stuff from ubuntu and kubuntu desktop guide.
[11:16] <luzi> not at the moment, but i hope to get some more people aboard, once the stuff is set up.
[11:18] <mdke> transparent admon files would be much appreciated
[11:22] <Skirka> where would i find if my graphics card is supported under ubuntu
[11:22] <mdke> Skirka, best to search the wiki or forums
[11:23] <luzi> mdke, the transparent images would have to be done by the person who created them.
[11:24] <luzi> because in the PNG file, the layers are lost.
[11:24] <mdke> I have no idea where the files came from
[11:24] <mdke> I looked recently, and didn't find it
[11:25] <luzi> i made a quick hack, which will work for backgrounds which are close to white. it's here: http://www.doink.ch/xubuntu-doc/transparent-admon.tar.gz
[11:25] <mdke> you rock
[11:25] <mdke> we might have to remake icons then I suppose
[11:26] <mdke> know anyone who likes that sort of thing?
[11:26] <luzi> nope
[11:26] <mdke> so do your icons work on complete white?
[11:28] <luzi> yes, they should look exactly the same as before on a white background.
[11:30] <luzi> i'm slowly starting to get the hang of the GIMP ... :o)
[11:31] <mdke> :) ok I'm off, see you around
[11:32] <luzi> bye