[12:29] <j^> what to do to remove files from http://revu.tauware.de/?
[12:29] <crimsun> ask a revu admin
[12:29] <crimsun> (mez,ajmitch,slomo,siretart)
[12:29] <j^> upid=823 and 912 should go
[12:31] <j^> i just uploaded a new version of 823(network-manager-vpnc) for NM 0.6 though so possibly that will be overwritten
[12:31] <j^> 912 is an outdated version of nm which is in main for some time now
[12:32] <ajmitch__> they're already archived
[12:34] <j^> confusing, i just searched, so i did not see the archived section
[12:40] <hub> j^: n-m 0.6 for Dapper?
[12:42] <j^> hub which other n-m 0.6 would be in question?
[12:42] <hub> don't know
[12:42] <hub> in fact I don't have n-m 0.6 for dapper
[12:43] <j^> it just hit the archives
[12:43] <hub> oh
[12:43] <j^> the vpn plugins build find in my dapper pbuilder
[12:56] <Kyral> anyone here know about passing vectors and the like in functions?
[12:56] <Kyral> they aren't by reference right?
[12:57] <Kyral> no one...
[01:29] <hub> w00t
[01:29] <hub> installing nm 0.6
[01:29] <hub> so I can use WPA
[01:34] <crimsun> I'm still quite uncomfortable with wpasupplicant+n-m in main, but I don't have much say about that, heh.
[01:35] <ajmitch__> especially with the 3 year support
[01:42] <ogra> ajmitch_, 5 years if you use a wireleass server :P
[01:44] <j^> i put my server in a tree in the garden and after only 2 years it stoped responding, now im to old to climb on the tree, i need help
[01:46] <ZuZubuntu-fr|AWA> lol
[01:57] <ogra> j^, if you were clever you put it in a cat costume so you can call the fire brigade to save it ;)
[02:08] <jdong> so, x264 is now in multiverse; will mplayer be built using it?
[02:08] <jdong> I'd love to be able to encode and play h.264's from mplayer/mencoder
[02:50] <gclair> howdy all
[02:50] <yves> hi
[02:52] <LaserJock> hi gclair and yves
[02:53] <gclair> Hi Laser
[03:13] <Erlang> my "manpages that lead to nowhere" thingee doesn't make much people react
[03:17] <LaserJock> Erlang: ?
[03:18] <Erlang> on u-devel
[03:19] <LaserJock> interesting
[03:20] <crimsun> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2006-March/016888.html is so less-than-helpful
[03:21] <Erlang> I see why now -_-
[03:22] <Erlang> the message shows up just fine in mutt.  When i'll come back home I'll link with the wiki instead of attaching the list.
[03:31] <crimsun> heads up for us in dapper+1: http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2006/03/msg01084.html
[03:31] <crimsun> we'll probably be running into those issues sooner than later
[03:34] <ajmitch__> oh we will
[03:34] <ajmitch__> 4.1 is already planned for dapper+1 :)
[03:34] <ajmitch__> and in this case I'm glad that many patches are filed in debian BTS before we move
[03:38] <TheMuso> ajmitch__: If you mean ubuntu-users, I got off that list LONG ago.
[03:48] <bddebian> Heya gang
[03:50] <crimsun> 'lo bddebian
[03:50] <bddebian> Hi crimsun
[03:55] <LaserJock> hi bddebian and crimsun
[03:56] <bddebian> Heya LaserJock
[03:56] <crimsun> 'lo lj
[03:59] <LaserJock> man, I'm finally feeling like a MOTU today
[03:59] <crimsun> dolson: please join #ubuntu; 19:59 < jadaz87> IamEthos i am looking to have a music production pc based off of linux
[04:01] <crimsun> LaserJock: oh?
[04:01] <LaserJock> crimsun: wait a bit for dapper-changes ;-)
[04:01] <crimsun> LaserJock: ah
[04:02] <LaserJock> hopefully it won't be "Rejected" :-)
[04:02] <LaserJock> a simple developer asking about a bug report turned into a 2 day mission
[04:04] <ajmitch__> LaserJock: decided to upload 10 or 20 packages? :)
[04:04] <OgMaciel> somebody know how I can get a hold of jdub by any chance?
[04:04] <LaserJock> ajmitch_: only 3 but one is NEW
[04:05] <LaserJock> OgMaciel: I think he is in -devel
[04:05] <OgMaciel> LaserJock, thanks much  ;)
[04:06] <OgMaciel> LaserJock, found him...  not sure he's awake though...  ;)
[04:06] <ajmitch__> he ought to be
[04:07] <ajmitch__> since it's lunchtime if he's in .au
[04:07] <OgMaciel> ajmitch_, forgot about the time difference... true...  ;)
[04:08] <LaserJock> OgMaciel: he last said something in -devel about 30 min ago
[04:08] <OgMaciel> LaserJock, been trying to get a hold of him for a while now...
[04:09] <OgMaciel> guess \sh hasn't been around either
[04:09] <OgMaciel> LaserJock, I know what you mean...  ;)
[04:12] <LaserJock> yeah! They made it
[04:13] <LaserJock> hmm, "bombs away" keeps coming to mind ;-)
[04:15] <ogra> LaserJock, yay
[04:16] <LaserJock> ogra: oh, I didn't think you'd still be up
[04:17] <LaserJock> ogra: yeah, I got it all done I think. squeak runs fine from the menu now
[04:17] <ogra> i'm on my way to bed, but looked into the mail before ;)
[04:17] <ogra> cool
[04:17] <ogra> i'll test as soon as Kamion waved -image through
[04:17] <LaserJock> cool
[04:19] <ajmitch__> LaserJock: ogra is always up this late :)
[04:20] <LaserJock> gosh, I feel like going to bed and I'm US Pacific TZ
[04:20] <ogra> ajmitch__, its getting spring ... i'm starting to get up earlier :)
[04:20] <LaserJock> hi tritium
[04:20] <ajmitch__> ogra: what, 7am? :)
[04:20] <tritium> hi LaserJock, ajmitch__
[04:20] <ajmitch__> hey tritium
[04:20] <ogra> so i wont be around this long in the next months
[04:21] <ajmitch__> I can't let my key go stale
[04:21] <tritium> hi ogra
[04:22] <ogra> ajmitch__, 9am is fine instead of 11am :) but that means going to bed *before* 4am ;)
[04:22] <ajmitch__> heh
[04:22] <ogra> hey tritium
[04:23] <tritium> rub it in, ajmitch__ ;)
[04:25] <ajmitch__> tritium: I'd usually be up a bit after 7am :)
[04:25] <tritium> ajmitch__: I'm already at work by then :)
[05:22] <LaserJock> man, mutt seems to have a bit of a steep learning curve
[05:23] <ajmitch__> LaserJock: mutt? hardly :)
[05:24] <LaserJock> hmm, maybe I'm just to GUIfied but pine seems a whole lot easier
[05:25] <LaserJock> I can't figure out how to get back to my inbox once I've gone to another folder
[05:31] <TheMuso> LaserJock: YOu know there is in-built help?
[05:33] <Kyral> I hate C lol
[05:33] <Kyral> well, C++
[05:33] <LaserJock> TheMuso: and the FAQ is full of RTFMs
[05:34] <TheMuso> hahaha
[05:34] <Kyral> I coded for like 3 hours
[05:34] <LaserJock> I can get to all my mailboxes (they are in ~/Mail) but I can't get back to my inbox (somewhere in /var/spool/ I think)
[05:35] <Kyral> only to be shot down by conversion between my Structs
[05:35] <Kyral> (which only differ in that they interpret the < and > differently)
[05:35] <Kyral> so hows it going :D
[05:36] <jamessan> LaserJock: you could have your mail delivered via procmail so it goes to ~/Mail
[05:36] <LaserJock> jamessan: hmm, ok. I was thinking about learning how to use procmail
[05:36] <ajmitch__> LaserJock: when you hit c to change folder, hit ? to get a list, your inbox should be in there
[05:36] <LaserJock> ajmitch_: but it isn't
[05:37] <Kyral> I have mine delivered to my server :D
[05:37] <jamessan> ajmitch__: not the system mail (which goes to /var/spool/...)
[05:37] <ajmitch__> jamessan: it is here (at least when I hit tab in that list)
[05:37] <jamessan> not for me  :/
[05:38] <ajmitch__> however that's because it's listed in my muttrc :)
[05:38] <Kyral> jeez...I just got ANOTHER email address
[05:38] <Kyral> my GPG key is insanely long now....
[05:38] <LaserJock> ajmitch_: ah, maybe that is what I'm missing
[05:39] <ajmitch__> my muttrc has just grown a bit over the years
[05:40] <jamessan> ajmitch__: nice. thanks :)
[05:40] <psusi> is there a way to tell gpg to not be a moron and go fetch keys it doesn't recognize?  like when I try to verify a downloaded tarball, it just says it doesn't recognize any of the keys that signed it... well, fetch them from the key server!
[05:41] <ajmitch__> psusi: yes, but it's usually turned off because key fetching is so slow
[05:41] <psusi> ok... so how do I turn it back on? ;)
[05:41] <psusi> because otherwise, what's the point of the web of trust?
[05:42] <psusi> if you have to already have all the keys in the web on your ring that is
[05:43] <psusi> I was also wondering what happens when two people get the same key id?
[05:43] <ajmitch__> ah, auto-key-retrieve, in the manepage
[05:43] <ajmitch__> manpage
[05:44] <Kyral> I think I have one at "petermcv@acm.org" now....
[05:44] <ajmitch__> psusi: the short ID doesn't have to be unique
[05:44] <ajmitch__> for example, hub's 32-bit key id clashes with someone else's
[05:44] <psusi> right... so what happens when they clash?
[05:44] <hub> yep
[05:44] <hub> psusi: lot of bugs
[05:44] <hub> lot of pain
[05:44] <psusi> lol.... fantastic
[05:45] <hub> but nothing serious
[05:45] <Kyral> jeez...
[05:45] <hub> keyserver are still confused
[05:45] <ajmitch__> signing scripts often get confused, too :)
[05:45] <hub> ajmitch__: much less
[05:45] <ajmitch__> they still tend to do the right thing
[05:45] <psusi> why did they only use the first 32 bits of the fingerprint?
[05:46] <ajmitch__> would you prefer to remember 64 or 128 bits everytime you want to use a key?
[05:47] <psusi> is there a conf file or something I can edit so I don't have to specify --keyserver-options auto-key-retrieve every time?
[05:47] <ajmitch__> yes
[05:47] <ajmitch__> as I said, look at the man page
[05:48] <psusi> gpg's man page is too darn long... shoudl have been done as an info tree, heh
[05:49] <Kyral> ...I think I just set the record for registered email addresses on LP
[05:49] <LaserJock> arggh, I still can't figure out how to add my inbox
[05:49] <Kyral> mutt?
[05:50] <LaserJock> yeah
[05:50] <Kyral> uhh...
[05:50] <Kyral> I just pointed it at the mailspooler
[05:50] <Kyral> I think
[05:50] <Kyral> I may have a copy of my .muttrc around...
[05:50] <LaserJock> it seems like the FVWM of email
[05:50] <Kyral> lol
[05:50] <Kyral> Yah personally I just use POP3
[05:50] <psusi> imap >>>> pop3
[05:51] <Kyral> psusi: yah but I don't have the space to pull it off on my server
[05:51] <Kyral> well, I do...
[05:51] <Kyral> and the ports are open
[05:51] <Kyral> all I gotta do is tell Domain 0 to forward the IMAP ports
[05:52] <LaserJock> anyway, I'm not using pop or imap at the moment
[05:52] <LaserJock> my inbox is at /var/mail/mantha
[05:52] <psusi> my imap server is holding lkml traffic since jan 1... 31,000 messages taking up like 150 megs... one of these days I think I'll stuff it into a cramfs and see if I can't use unionfs to maintan access to the full maildir while keeping the older messages compressed
[05:52] <LaserJock> but when I list the mailboxes I can't see it
[05:53] <Kyral> ouch lkml
[05:53] <Kyral> Thats what my GMail account is for :D
[05:53] <psusi> I went through my work machine today and compressed around 400 megs of 'normal' email too ;)
[05:53] <Kyral> I download it all to my desktop
[05:53] <psusi> fortunately, 7zip shrank it down to 50 megs
[05:54] <Kyral> wait...this client is on my server
[05:54] <Kyral> lol I forgot I was SSH'd into a screen session
[05:54] <psusi> lol
[05:56] <LaserJock> lol, there is a website to build a muttrc
[05:56] <psusi> the actual signatures generated by gpg only identify the signer by their first 32 bits of fingerprint right?  aka the keyid?
[05:56] <Kyral> yah I saw that lol
[05:57] <psusi> so if two people get the same keyid, there's no way to tell which one is the one that signed something because they would both look the same no?
[05:58] <psusi> I think I prefer s/mime... your whole public certificate goes into the message so the recipient doesn't have to download it from a key server... just validates the CA's signature on it
[06:00] <Kyral> PGP/Inline
[06:01] <psusi> actually, I guess you really couldn't do that with gpg
[06:01] <psusi> since if you were to try and recursively include all signer's keys, you could end up with millions of them
[06:01] <Kyral> lol
[06:03] <psusi> man... what's up with this guy's key?  de885dd3... he has a million signatures... and like two people that each signed like 30 times...  I guess the big 'X' means that sig expired right?
[06:18] <Lathiat> i tried that once
[06:18] <Lathiat> i crashed gpg
[06:18] <Lathiat> (recursing down my signatures and their signatures etc
[06:18] <psusi> lol
[06:19] <Lathiat> after about 24 hours
[06:19] <Lathiat> on a p100
[06:19] <Lathiat> :)
[06:19] <psusi> how many GB did the output file grow to? ;)
[06:19] <Lathiat> i cant find that key id?
[06:19] <Lathiat> it was a few hundred meg
[06:19] <ajmitch__> Lathiat: and on your new box now it'd probably succeed in a few minutes
[06:21] <Lathiat> yeh probably :)
[06:21] <Lathiat> if i had a gig net connection to stick into it
[06:21] <truz24> how often do you guys regenerate key pairs for gpg?
[06:22] <ajmitch__> Lathiat: I think the keyservers would be too slow though
[06:23] <Lathiat> ajmitch__: multiple keyservers at once? ;p
[06:24] <ajmitch__> you'd need a *lot*
[06:24] <Lathiat> :)
[06:24] <ajmitch__> me will bbl
[06:25] <ajmitch__> bad keyboard, missing / :)
[06:26] <Kyral> lol
[06:43] <minghua> doesn't gitk use tcl/tk?
[06:44] <crimsun> yes
[06:45] <minghua> I suppose tcl/tk has some global configuration files, no?
[06:46] <crimsun> I don't think so [for tcl] 
[06:47] <crimsun> [or tk] 
[06:48] <minghua> oh okay.  no wonder fewer and fewer apps are using tk these days, then :-P
[07:11] <psusi> the question is what does tcl/tk use?  that's just a scripting language... what X toolkit does the script interpreter use?
[07:11] <psusi> based on the simple look if I had to guess, it's motif
[07:12] <psusi> I'm thinking there's some sort of black magic I can do with X resources... but I have a few scarry memories of trying to figure that stuff out
[07:12] <psusi> the number of changes that go into the linux kernel in only a day or two span is mind boggling
[07:13] <psusi> I've been reading all the changes since I last pulled a few days ago for a half hour now... and I'm only half way done
[07:13] <psusi> and i'm just skimming it!
[07:15] <Amaranth> psusi: stop drinking out of the fire hose
[07:17] <minghua> hehe
[07:17] <psusi> lol... that's what it feels like....
[07:17] <psusi> my head is swelling I swear
[07:18] <Amaranth> that's how i felt when i was subscribed to ubuntu-users :P
[07:19] <psusi> I haven't even found my commit yet
[07:19] <psusi> heh... ubuntu-users isn't bad at all
[07:19] <psusi> about half the traffic of lkml
[07:19] <psusi> of course... I'm on both ;)
[07:20] <psusi> looking at this git history is like examining a fine tapestry...
[07:21] <psusi> finally, THERE is my patch
[07:22] <psusi> I can't believe the sheer number of patches that linus alone applies
[07:36] <cassou> Hi
[07:37] <psusi> omg... 1836 commits in a week
[07:37] <cassou> I would like to help with the squeak package
[07:37] <cassou> to make it ready for dapper
[07:37] <psusi> ok, I'm now officially insane... and up too late... night...
[07:37] <cassou> I've already reported bugs
[07:37] <cassou> what can I do now ?
[07:38] <cassou> ogra, are you responsible for the package ?
[07:45] <minghua> cassou: I believe getting a patch for the bug you reported would help a log
[07:45] <ajmitch__> argh, users
[07:45] <minghua> cassou: either track it down yourself, or contact upstream/debian, then ask people to review your patch
[07:46] <minghua> ajmitch_: users list?
[07:46] <ajmitch__> minghua: no, someone on malone
[07:47] <cassou> minghua, I already wrote patches
[07:47] <ajmitch__> someone who *should* know better & be able to provide actual information instead of just saying 'it breaks, fix it'
[07:47] <minghua> oh.  I suppose any user that endured the horrible interface of malone and reported a bug should deserve better treatment :-P
[07:47] <cassou> why do I need to talk to debian peaple ? I just would like to have good ubuntu packages
[07:48] <minghua> cassou: great then, try find someone who knows the package to review it
[07:48] <ajmitch__> minghua: this is not just a random user, and he replied to a needinfo setting with basically 'just try it'
[07:48] <minghua> cassou: that's your choice.  but usually the debian maintainer is a good choice to ask for review
[07:48] <cassou> minghua, ogra (on this channel) seems to be responsible for this package but he is not here
[07:49] <cassou> minghua, what is the best way to talk with debian maintener ?
[07:49] <minghua> poor ajmitch_
[07:50] <G0SUB> ajmitch__: lol
[07:50] <G0SUB> ajmitch__: bug ID?
[07:50] <minghua> cassou: for bugs, if you can reproduce it in debian, Debian BTS would be best place.  if you don't want to try reproduce in debian, I think email would be better.  But as I said, your choice
[07:50] <ajmitch__> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/stratagus/+bug/32991
[07:50] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 32991 in stratagus "MOTU:  Stratagus AMD64 Segfault" [Normal,Needs info] 
[07:50] <ajmitch__> I know he's perfectly capable of providing even a backtrace :P
[07:51] <G0SUB> haha
[07:51] <G0SUB> smart but lazy guy
[07:51] <ajmitch__> and he's perfectly willing to mouth off on the devel list :)
[07:52] <cassou> minghua, I don't mind  helping debian too. I just would like dapper to have squeak ready and easy to use.
[07:52] <minghua> see, never show that you are more than a dumb user.  otherwise the devs expects more.  ;-)
[07:52] <cassou> minghua, However, I can't install debian now
[07:53] <ajmitch__> minghua: I expect at least common sense
[07:53] <G0SUB> ajmitch__: the guy's wiki says this -- ``I'm just rallying for greater security in general. If I seem strange to you, don't give it a second thought; I'm neither primarily a Debian or Ubuntu user.''
[07:53] <minghua> cassou: let me put it this way: if upstream/debian maintainer says your patch is good, I am willing to upload your patch even I know nothing about squeak (as long as it builds)
[07:54] <minghua> ajmitch_: I know.  I was just kidding.
[07:54] <ajmitch__> GOSUB: I know, I've run into him a few times on irc as well
[07:54] <G0SUB> heh
[07:54] <cassou> minghua, if I can
[07:54] <G0SUB> strange people ...
[07:55] <crimsun> oh great, my pop host is down.
[07:55] <cassou> minghua, if I can't install debian, to whom do I need to write a mail ? with what information since there is no debian package for squeak currently
[07:56] <minghua> cassou: oh, squeak is not in debian?  try contact upstream, maybe.
[07:56] <cassou> by upstream, you mean squeak community ? I'm one of them already
[07:56] <cassou> I do not have squeak patches, but packages patches :-)
[07:57] <minghua> cassou: what is the malone bug number?
[07:57] <cassou> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/squeak-vm/+bug/36804
[07:57] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 36804 in squeak-vm "Desktop file needs update" [Normal,Unconfirmed] 
[07:58] <cassou> (for example)
[07:58] <ajmitch__> hi Hobbsee, tritium
[07:59] <tritium> hi ajmitch__
[07:59] <minghua> cassou: I suggest writing a mail to ogra or MOTU mailing list
[08:00] <minghua> cassou: I can upload a fix for 36804 but I suppose you need more than that
[08:00] <cassou> I thought it was automatic when filling a bug
[08:00] <cassou> minghua, it will be a good start if you upload the fix.
[08:01] <cassou> minghua, but you are right: we need more :-)
[08:01] <Hobbsee> hey ajmitch__
[08:04] <minghua> cassou: about bug 36806, squeak-vm fails to build on amd64 (and powerpc): https://launchpad.net/+builds/+build/180761
[08:04] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 36806 in squeak-vm "amd64 version" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/36806
[08:04] <minghua> cassou: can you figure out why?
[08:06] <minghua> cassou: As you say you are from upstream community, I am willing to review your patches and upload them if ogra is busy
[08:06] <minghua> cassou: but I still suggest you contact him first
[08:06] <cassou> I removed dapper-amd64 to test squeak32 as requested by someone from squeak community. Can I try to compile it without reinstalling everything ?
[08:06] <cassou> minghua, I will try to contact him
[08:07] <minghua> cassou: probably not.  but reading the build logs is usually inspiring
[08:08] <minghua> cassou: but it wouldn't be hard to have a 64bit chroot from what I heard
[08:08] <G0SUB> ajmitch__: send me a pic, I will make one for you
[08:08] <cassou> minghua, never tried to chroot :-(
[08:09] <G0SUB> heh
[08:12] <cassou> minghua, I just contact him
[08:14] <minghua> cassou: feel free to ping me when you have patch ready (I would prefer some other people to confirm your patch, but for the .desktop file I can see it's good)
[08:15] <cassou> minghua, did you upload it ?
[08:16] <minghua> cassou: you want me to?
[08:17] <cassou> minghua, why not ? It would be a good start. But you may have reasons not to do it or you may think there are better solutions ?
[08:18] <minghua> cassou: no, I don't have any objections, I'll upload
[08:19] <cassou> minghua, thank you very much. It's one point solved
[08:19] <cassou> minghua, can you close the bug too ?
[08:19] <minghua> hmm, why is squeak-vm in multiverse...
[08:20] <cassou> minghua, squeak has some problems with copyrighted fonts if I remember well
[08:20] <minghua> cassou: yes.  but you probably want to test the autobuilt package before closing the bug?
[08:20] <cassou> minghua, can you explain me what autobuild is ?
[08:21] <minghua> cassou: I'll upload only the source.  then there is a build machine that builds the binary package
[08:22] <minghua> (and packages for different arches are built by different machines, obviously)
[08:22] <cassou> minghua, what do I need to do ?
[08:23] <cassou> minghua, I'm sorry my ubuntu machine is not started and I'm not at home to switch it on. So I'll have to wait to test it
[08:23] <minghua> cassou: wait until the package I upload (should be 3.7.7-5ubuntu4) appears in achive, install it, test that the .desktop works, and close the bug
[08:24] <cassou> minghua, but I still would like the explanation to test everything this afternoon
[08:24] <cassou> minghua, ok, thanks
[08:24] <minghua> cassou: "the explanation to test everything"?  please rephrase
[08:25] <cassou> minghua, I was just waiting for your comments on how to test the patch. I got it now. Thanks
[08:26] <cassou> minghua, thank you for your help.
[08:28] <cassou> minghua, If I already have squeak-vm installed, I will just have to apt-get update/upgrade to upgrade the package to your version ?
[08:29] <minghua> cassou: does squeak-vm handles images?
[08:29] <cassou> there is now images now. It is another bug however
[08:29] <minghua> cassou: and your patch doesn't apply (the icon is already fixed, de_DE translation is already added)
[08:30] <cassou> minghua, I'm sorry, I need to leave you now. Thank for your fix, I will continue working later
[08:30] <minghua> cassou: okay.  see you then
[08:30] <cassou> minghua, I was waiting for that problem. It seems I did not manage to get a real diff. I did not find documentation
[08:31] <cassou> minghua, what I changed is :
[08:31] <cassou> - adding the french translation
[08:31] <minghua> cassou: paste the correct .desktop then, don't paste a wrong diff
[08:31] <cassou> - modifyng the categorie
[08:31] <cassou> minghua, sorry, I will do that
[08:31] <crimsun> siretart: ping. The current wpasupplicant package doesn't handle removing /etc/network/if-p{re-up,ost-down}.d/wpasupplicant, which seems to have been superceded by /etc/network/if-{down,pre-up,post-down}.d/0_wpasupplicant
[08:31] <cassou> minghua, thank you for your time
[08:31] <minghua> cassou: please paste now so I can upload later
[08:32] <minghua> cassou: you are welcome
[08:32] <cassou> minghua, I do not have my computer here, I'm sorry
[08:32] <minghua> cassou: don't worry then, I think I can handle it
[08:33] <cassou> minghua, thank you very much for all
[08:34] <cassou> minghua, I must leave now
[08:34] <minghua> cassou: see you
[08:34] <cassou> I will help squeak and ubuntu later
[08:36] <minghua> Hmm, what is the command to test .desktop files?
[08:36] <minghua> got it, desktop-file-validate
[09:19] <siretart> crimsun: oh. interesting. well, in that case, we should do some postinst magic for that.
[09:24] <siretart> crimsun: which upgrade path did you use for having /etc/network/if-p{re-up,ost-down}.d/wpasupplicant lying around?
[09:25] <crimsun> siretart: I've not touched any of those [conf] files
[09:25] <crimsun> these have been straight upgrades via apt
[09:26] <crimsun> 0.4.7->0.4.8, that is, and all Ubuntu Dapper versions
[09:27] <siretart> crimsun: I see. if time permits, I will look into this today, and write a workaround for that in our trunk/ branch. then we can decide if we do another upload of trunk/ to ubuntu or not
[09:27] <ajmitch> hey siretart
[09:27] <crimsun> siretart: sounds good, thanks.
[09:28] <crimsun> should be good enough to simply check for the existence of the obsolete conffile and nuke it
[09:28] <siretart> huhu ajmitch
[09:29] <siretart> crimsun: kel has already written some preinst magic for conffiles. I suspect that we could just lengthen that list of conffiles in preinst
[09:30] <crimsun> ok
[09:46] <minghua> it's arch: i386
[09:46] <minghua> doh
[09:47] <ajmitch> oops
[10:05] <ogra> minghua, LaserJock worked on squeak (as the changelog would tell :) )
[10:06] <minghua> ogra: yeah, but since both him and you are not around, I figure I shouldn't discourage cassou too much
[10:06] <minghua> but later I realized he/she doesn't know much about debian/ubuntu
[10:07] <ogra> and probably about squeak ...
[10:07] <ogra> there are three binarys and one script :)
[10:07] <ogra> all you can do with this package is change the script or the location of the binarys ...
[10:08] <mdke> is there some kind of policy that bugs about menu entries not complying with HIG guidelines are to be set as "Wishlist"? I've had two bugs marked down like that
[10:08] <ogra> but thats pretty much it :)
[10:08] <ogra> (no sources)
[10:09] <ajmitch> how useful
[10:09] <ajmitch> btw good morning ogra ;)
[10:10] <ogra> moin moin
[10:12] <minghua> ogra: ah, and cassou told me it's some "font related issues" :-(
[10:13] <minghua> mdke: I am not aware of any policies but I agree with such categorization (unless there is a patch)
[10:14] <mdke> minghua, why? bad menu entries are bugs like all others
[10:15] <ogra> minghua, right, the squeak license forbids to change the fonts iirc
[10:15] <minghua> mdke: IMO they are the same as feature requests, but that's just my opinion
[10:16] <mdke> minghua, I don't see how changing a menu entry with a usability problem is "adding a new feature to a program in Ubuntu". I'd say they are minor or normal bugs
[10:17] <minghua> mdke: Hmm, I don't want to argue, and I don't really care
[10:17] <mdke> fair enough
[10:17] <mdke> I'll do a patch anyway
[10:18] <minghua> mdke: get the patch ready and it will get applied regardless of the severity
[10:18] <minghua> indeed, that's the way I prefer
[10:20] <mdke> argh. there is no desktop file in the source
[10:21] <siretart> ogra: hrhr, I can only smile at arnieboys answer to my 'genuine concerns'..
[10:22] <ogra> siretart, heh
[10:22] <ajmitch> siretart: you're still even reading that thread?
[10:22] <ogra> i *love* peter garrets short commments in that thread :)
[10:24] <ajmitch> morning dholbach
[10:24] <dholbach> heya ajmitch
[10:24] <dholbach> hey guys
[10:24] <verwilst> hello dholbach
[10:24] <verwilst> dholbach: the new pure-ftpd is purring away nicely ;)
[10:24] <dholbach> rockn'roll
[10:25] <verwilst> just backported it to breezy too ( we have 1 breezy server which was using .19 :) )
[10:25] <siretart> ajmitch: he finally provided his email address :)
[10:26] <ajmitch> siretart: yeah, impressive :)
[10:27] <siretart> good idea :)
[10:32] <minghua> ajmitch, ogra, siretart: are you talking about a thread on automatrix (and if yes, where is it)?
[10:32] <siretart> minghua: a stupid thread on ubuntu-user@lists.ubuntu.com
[10:34] <minghua> siretart: thanks
[10:34] <siretart> minghua: I read it via gmane only
[10:34] <mdke> siretart, I'm just reading via the mailman archive, where is his response to your post?
[10:35] <mdke> i don't see it
[10:35] <mdke> oh, the thread was broken
[10:35] <siretart> mdke: gmane and the mailman archive may lag a bit behind
[10:36] <siretart> I love the scoring capabilities of slrn. I use them intensively
[10:39] <ogra> minghua, err
[10:39] <ogra>  * Apply patch for .desktop file from Damien Cassou, thanks!  (Ubuntu #36804)
[10:39] <ogra>      - Add French translation.
[10:39] <ogra>      - Put squeak to the correct categories.
[10:40] <ogra> minghua, the package already ships a .desktop file and LaseJock added the needed script to start properly with his last upload ...
[10:40] <ogra> hmm
[10:41] <ogra> i hope yu didnt revert his stuff  ...
[10:41] <minghua> ogra, no, not at all.  I looked at LaserJock's change and changelog
[10:42] <ogra> oki, then  its fine ...
[10:42] <minghua> ogra: the detail is in the bug report if you are interested
[10:42] <ogra> he just discussed several hours with upstream since the scrippt needs some special functionallity it seems
[10:43] <ogra> argh
[10:43] <ogra> you've put it into education ?
[10:43] <ogra> squeak is a multimedia programming framework ...
[10:43] <minghua> I don't use/know smalltalk at all, like I said, I dared to upload because I know .desktop files
[10:43] <minghua> ogra: it's not?
[10:43] <minghua> it was in AudioVideo
[10:44] <ogra> yes, thats where i put it
[10:44] <minghua> which now sounds right...
[10:44] <ogra> :)
[10:44] <ogra> and i dont like the education categorya at all :)
[10:44] <ogra> but anyway , thats harmless ...
[10:45] <minghua> ogra: does Development category makes sense then?
[10:45] <ogra> either that or audio/video
[10:45] <minghua> not both?
[10:45] <ogra> hmm, i'm not a big fan of doubling entries ...
[10:46] <minghua> ogra: now it's in both education and development...
[10:46] <ogra> hrm
[10:46] <ogra> yes, i just see it
[10:46] <minghua> ogra: I'll take care of the category thing before upload
[10:47] <ogra> thanks
[10:47] <minghua> development makes more sense to me
[10:47] <minghua> I'm not a fan of double entry either
[10:47] <ogra> yep :)
[10:47] <minghua> ogra: and do you have any idea if it is useful on non-i386 arches?
[10:48] <ogra> i want to get rid of the menu structure in later edubuntu releases, especially of the education section
[10:48] <ogra> i doubt that
[10:48] <ogra> the image and source packages both only contain big binary images
[10:48] <minghua> and BTW the description of squeak-vm can have some improvement... (I didn't figure out it's multimedia platform at all)
[10:49] <ogra> i'm not sure that even if the vm compiles on amd64 it could run any of the images
[10:49] <minghua> ogra: would you please comment on bug 36806 then?
[10:49] <ogra> (i very much doubt that)
[10:49] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 36806 in squeak-vm "amd64 version" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/36806
[10:49] <ogra> i have the squeak list open ...
[10:49] <minghua> oh okay
[10:50] <ogra> cassou mailed me the buglist
[10:50] <ogra> (i doubt squeak has even more than 10 users on ubuntu btw)
[10:50] <minghua> apparently you know much more than I do about squeak, my future upload will be only fixing the category in .desktop then :-)
[10:52] <minghua> well, smalltalk is not a popular language after all ;-)
[11:09] <minghua> quite stupid thread indeed...
[11:27] <Toadstool> hi here
[11:27] <Toadstool> anyone to check and maybe upload the debdiffs I attached to bug 34409 and bug 34663?
[11:28] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 34409 in lprng "lprng fails to start" [Major,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/34409
[11:28] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 34663 in ipmasq "Default configuration logs IGMP packets" [Normal,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/34663
[11:36] <HeatBlazer> hello
[11:37] <HeatBlazer> are there any ubuntu developers?
[11:37] <azeem> HeatBlazer: what do you think?
[11:37] <HeatBlazer> I think-yes
[11:38] <HeatBlazer> may I suggest something
[11:39] <HeatBlazer> it`s about the x.mame
[11:40] <HeatBlazer> please...add xmame 0-104 to Synaptic pakage installer
[11:41] <HeatBlazer> compiling it is very confusing and hard to most of the people,especially newbies like me.
[11:42] <HeatBlazer> will you,please?
[11:45] <HeatBlazer> I really hope you will,you have my forward greetings.:)
[11:45] <HeatBlazer> have a nice day:)
[12:21] <siretart> hey kelmo_lap
[12:21] <kelmo_lap> hi siretart
[12:22] <siretart> kelmo_lap: looks like wpasupplicant will make on the flight6 cd, which is due to today :)
[12:22] <kelmo_lap> cool, should find out how its going then
[12:23] <kelmo_lap> siretart, you use wpa_supplicant with EAP, iirc?
[12:25] <siretart> kelmo_lap: depends. I have a place where I use either EAP-TLS using x509 certificates or PEAP (with username/pw). at home I currently use PSK2
[12:25] <kelmo_lap> siretart, would you be going to those places anytime soon?
[12:25] <kelmo_lap> if so, can you please grab me some wpa_cli output
[12:26] <siretart> kelmo_lap: we had a user in launchpad complaining that the ifupdown script checks for /proc/net/packet. what breaks if af_packet isn't loaded?
[12:26] <kelmo_lap> just the output of "status"
[12:26] <siretart> kelmo_lap: I'm normally on mondays there, but if its urgent, I can go there on my way home
[12:26] <kelmo_lap> siretart, not urgent
[12:27] <kelmo_lap> siretart, i think that maybe that check should be removed, its a bit restrictive
[12:27] <kelmo_lap> i shall do it now
[12:27] <siretart> this is bug #37121, btw
[12:27] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 37121 in wpasupplicant "ifupdown script 0_wpasupplicant assumes CONFIG_PACKET=y" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/37121
[12:27] <siretart> ok, then lets remove it until we know what breaks because of it
[12:28] <siretart> btw, do you happen to have an account in launchpad?
[12:29] <kelmo_lap> ok, its removed in my local copy
[12:29] <kelmo_lap> and the reason being:
[12:29] <kelmo_lap> if its not existing, wpa_supplicant would have to make a call to load it
[12:29] <kelmo_lap> that may not succeed in some situations
[12:30] <siretart> hm. perhaps we can issue a warning if it doesn't exist
[12:30] <kelmo_lap> no, i don't have a launchpad account
[12:30] <kelmo_lap> have not used ubuntu, so never required one yet
[12:30] <siretart> no problem
[12:31] <kelmo_lap> nah, i think we can safely ignore that issue for now
[12:31] <kelmo_lap> it will be in the changelog if it comes back to bite
[12:32] <kelmo_lap> ok, so some further clarification, we will be closing both ubuntu and debian bugs in these changelogs? or how will this work?
[12:33] <kelmo_lap> ie, how do we manage the release aspect of this combined source package
[12:34] <siretart> malone bugs  can be linked to debian bugs
[12:34] <siretart> so if someone files a bug in malone about wpasupplicant, a 'bugtask' for ubuntu is created
[12:35] <siretart> if the same bug already exists in debbugs, we create another 'bugtask' for the debian bug. so the 2 issues are linked
[12:35] <siretart> the debian bugtask is supposed to be checked and updated automatically, but I don't know if malone is there yet
[12:36] <siretart> I don't know if we need to import all malone bugs to debugs. At least, I don't think so
[12:36] <minghua> well, I am waiting for launchpad to support closing bugs in changelog first (or is that already possible?)
[12:37] <siretart> minghua: Kinnison asked for opinions on a syntax for that. I think there was some consensus on that point, which is a prequisite for the implementation for that
[12:37] <siretart> minghua:  #launchpad should be able to give you a definite answer on that
[12:37] <minghua> siretart: yes I read that thread in -devel
[12:38] <siretart> btw, this is bug 2037. I filed that some time ago
[12:38] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 2037 in malone "feature request: closing via changelog" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/2037
[12:38] <minghua> I suppose there should be an announcement when it's available
[12:38] <siretart> yes
[12:38] <siretart> I love the subscribing feature in malone.
[12:39] <minghua> to be honest, I really thought about replying "whatever format is okay for me, as long as you guys implement it fast" :-)
[12:39] <siretart> :)
[12:40] <kelmo_lap> siretart, ok, but how about just the simple thing like managing changelogs for debian/ubuntu releases
[12:41] <siretart> kelmo_lap: I expect that someday, we just need to close the debian bugno in the changelog, and malone will close the relevant bugtask as soon as the package enters the given distribution. the debian bugtask when accepted in debian, and the ubuntu bugtask when synced to ubuntu
[12:41] <minghua> yes, subscribing is the only thing I prefers malone over Debian BTS
[12:41] <siretart> kelmo_lap: I don't have any problem in having 'ubuntu' revision in the debian changelog. there are other (core) package which do this
[12:41] <kelmo_lap> siretart, no i have absolutely no problem with it either
[12:42] <kelmo_lap> just curious as to how we release
[12:42] <siretart> kelmo_lap: 0.4.8-0ubuntu2 is smaller than 0.4.8-1, so we could even introduce a 0.4.8-0ubuntu3, without violating the order of version numbers
[12:42] <kelmo_lap> ie, do we prepare for debian first, then make a new entry for ubuntu, and release again
[12:42] <siretart> ah, now I understand.
[12:43] <kelmo_lap> i think its great to share the same source package! changelog and all
[12:43] <siretart> I'd say, lets focus on a 0.4.8-1 upload for unstable. Then we 'sync' that version to ubuntu (I will handle that, don't worry)
[12:44] <kelmo_lap> just a minor point of curiousity is all ; )
[12:44] <minghua> kelmo_lap: BTW "sync" means sharing the same source package (and changelog) in case your didn't know
[12:44] <kelmo_lap> sure
[12:45] <kelmo_lap> i do the same for kanotix releases
[12:46] <kelmo_lap> well, i am primarily interested in wpa_cli status ouput, that is indicitave of the state of an interface
[12:47] <kelmo_lap> output*
[12:47] <siretart> I see
[12:47] <kelmo_lap> i'll read the source a bit
[12:47] <siretart> how do you handle divergence to debian in kanotix?
[12:49] <kelmo_lap> we don't diverge, unless we are somehow releasing a package that one of us currently work on in debian (wpasupplicant, madwifi, spca5xx etc); or
[12:49] <kelmo_lap> the package is broken, and/or very old
[12:49] <siretart> ok, but given that you need some short time divergence, what do you upload to kanotix?
[12:50] <kelmo_lap> http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2006/01/msg01293.html
[12:50] <kelmo_lap> i follow those rules
[12:51] <kelmo_lap> i think the packages that have been dealt with like that are just minor
[12:51] <kelmo_lap> and bugfix patches are then sent to the debian maintainers
[12:51] <siretart> there is surely more divergence in ubuntu than in kanotix. I know
[12:52] <kelmo_lap> sure, we diverge maybe 5 - 10 source packages only
[12:52] <kelmo_lap> including such important things as kismet, nvclock ; )
[12:52] <siretart> so you use +a0.kanotix.X or +c0.kanotix.X suffixes, yes?
[12:53] <kelmo_lap> +c0.kanotix.X if i am updating a debian package
[12:53] <siretart> I see
[12:53] <kelmo_lap> i am the worst offender for this
[12:53] <kelmo_lap> the gatekeeper won't allow some things to pass through
[12:54] <kelmo_lap> ie, we don't diverge
[12:54] <siretart> well, I think this makes only sense for distribution who support installation of binary packages built in debian chroots, which ubuntu doesn't
[12:54] <kelmo_lap> just small updates to satify our own interests
[12:54] <kelmo_lap> satisfy*
[12:54] <siretart> I see. interesting to know
[12:54] <kelmo_lap> well, we almost experience it ourselves
[12:55] <kelmo_lap> say my sponsor for spca5xx is away
[12:55] <kelmo_lap> Kanotix will not wait for that, so i apply those rules
[12:55] <kelmo_lap> then the next debian upload upgrades shortly after
[12:56] <siretart> what if there is a security upload for spca5xx? acording to that policy, it would be versioned 1.2-3+s1.sarge.1, which would be higher than your 1.2-3+c0.kanotix. This would override your changes
[12:56] <kelmo_lap> exactly
[12:56] <siretart> :/
[12:57] <kelmo_lap> and our users would get the benefits of the security upgrade
[12:57] <siretart> but your divergence/fix would be overwritten.
[12:57] <kelmo_lap> it means that we must not diverge, unless we know exactly what we do, and are prepared to fix mess up
[12:58] <siretart> I think we have to agree that this policy wouldn't work in ubuntu
[12:58] <kelmo_lap> never did i suggest that
[12:58] <kelmo_lap> maybe we got a bit sidetracked in conversation ; )
[12:58] <siretart> I was thinking about that.
[12:58] <siretart> but now I see why this won't work :)
[12:59] <minghua> I am not sure security updates and derivative distros using the same namespace (branch) is a good idea, but I didn't think it through and don't have any better proposal
[12:59] <siretart> that post suggests ubuntu to follow that policy by explicitly mentioning ubuntu as example derivative. they should perhaps rather mention kanotix, where this scheme actually works :)
[12:59] <kelmo_lap> they do not like to mention kanotix much ; )
[01:00] <siretart> you think they like to mention ubuntu better? ;)
[01:00] <kelmo_lap> its the hot topic i think
[01:01] <kelmo_lap> just sit in #debian for 20 minutes
[01:01] <siretart> minghua: I think for debian, this policy is great. As well as for distribution which do support installation of package built in debian chroots.
[01:01] <kelmo_lap> and watch the first person to whisper ubuntu get shot down
[01:01] <kelmo_lap> happens too reguarly
[01:01] <siretart> kelmo_lap: which is sad, but I don't think we can help then from the ubuntu side
[01:02] <siretart> I don't have neither time nor interest to hang around in #debian. the operators decide how to moderate that channel
[01:02] <kelmo_lap> me neither
[01:02] <kelmo_lap> but sometimes it can provide light amusement
[01:02] <siretart> :)
[01:02] <minghua> siretart: what if the derivative want to be based on testing?
[01:03] <minghua> and you have testing-security
[01:03] <kelmo_lap> easy: do not diverge
[01:03] <minghua> I am also thinking about volatile
[01:03] <siretart> minghua: I don't see problems with this policy regarding derivatives based on debian/testing, if the testing-security team obey this policy
[01:03] <kelmo_lap> unless you plan to maintain all of it
[01:03] <kelmo_lap> like ubuntu
[01:04] <minghua> siretart: I'll think more
[01:04] <minghua> I am interested in this as well
[01:04] <minghua> mainly because I am involved in some Chinese-related unofficial repos
[01:05] <siretart> I see. well, currently, neither of the 2 debian security teams obey this policy
[01:05] <minghua> heh
[01:06] <minghua> but kelmo_lap's rule of thumb is always right:  the less you diverge, the less trouble :-)
[01:06] <siretart> minghua: the same is true for ubuntu
[01:07] <siretart> thats why we want to unify package development for wpasupplicant
[01:07] <kelmo_lap> yes, hence why i try hard to get any ideas i have into debian
[01:07] <minghua> siretart: I'm all for it
[01:24] <cassou> hi
[01:24] <cassou> ogra, minghua, are you here ?
[01:24] <ogra> cassou, yep
[01:24] <cassou> hi
[01:24] <cassou> I'm the one for squeak
[01:25] <ogra> nearly all the bugs you filed were fixed by LaserJocks upload yesterday
[01:25] <ogra> (before you filed them :) )
[01:25] <cassou> I don't see any update. I'll take a look
[01:25] <cassou> Squeak has multiple uses.
[01:25] <ogra> see the bugs i added info to the ones i closed
[01:26] <cassou> It can be an educational software used by teachers to teach how to develop, how to use a computer, how to make things move without writing code (there is a very simple scripting language)
[01:27] <ogra> cassou, i know
[01:27] <cassou> Squeak can be used as a real Smalltalk implementation. You can then write pure smalltalk code and execute your code
[01:27] <ogra> but in the end its a multimedia creation framework ...
[01:27] <cassou> It is an IDE too. You have browsers, refactoring tools...
[01:27] <cassou> you can write web apps, there is a very powerfull framework
[01:28] <cassou> so, I think the categories I used where good abstract categories. But now, you are more familiar than me with debian packages so you have to choose the right policie to adopt
[01:29] <minghua> cassou: it doesn't really matter whether it's an IDE or not, if IDE isn't in freedesktop spec, and not supported by GNOME or KDE, I believe it's useless
[01:29] <ogra> i'll drop it from the education meniu though
[01:29] <cassou> ogra, I never used Squeak for multimedia. I don't know how to display pictures or listen to sounds
[01:30] <cassou> minghua, I found the categories in the specs
[01:30] <ogra> cassou, the only usecase i know for it and i'm told by edubuntu users, is to create audiovisual stuff
[01:30] <cassou> but I don't know what specs :-)
[01:30] <cassou> ogra, not at all. I use it every for metamodeling and as a very high level language.
[01:31] <cassou> I work on the web framework too and I help with developping a CMS
[01:31] <ogra> cassou, i'm not intrested how *you* use it, i'm intrested about the *common* use ... we probably should make a poll on the edubuntu mailing list or something ...
[01:32] <ogra> i will strongly oppose to have more than one menu entry for it ... so lets find the best category ;)
[01:32] <cassou> ogra, you can make a poll or what you want :-) You can just send a mail to squeak-dev mailing list
[01:32] <minghua> cassou: yeah I see IDE in the spec, I don't have problem with it then
[01:33] <Hobbsee> if there's a bug in a ubuntu package, and it's linked to a bug upstream, which is marked as fix released, and the problem is not still occuring, i can mark the bug as fix released, right?
[01:33] <cassou> ogra, squeak has very different uses
[01:33] <ogra> cassou, if IDE is a proposed feature, i'm fine with the development category
[01:33] <ogra> i can only judge what my users tell me
[01:33] <cassou> ogra, do you want me to write a mail to the mailing list so that you will see answers without subscribing ?
[01:34] <ogra> and what we were told by the teachers we had at the edubuntu summit was that they'd like squeak included for multimedia programming tasks
[01:34] <ogra> cassou, i run the mailing list :) just mail :)
[01:34] <cassou> ogra, they may only tell you what they know. But I'm sure squeak has multiple uses and I'm not the only one
[01:34] <minghua> just FYI: Developement is in the "releated category" of IDE
[01:34] <cassou> I know a laboratory which only use squeak for developing
[01:35] <ogra> cassou, thats why i say lets find the most *common* usecase :)
[01:35] <ogra> if its IDE, then development is just fine ...
[01:35] <ogra> the old location was based on the info i had back then
[01:35] <cassou> ogra, there are no more common use cases. There are just very different use cases. It is like if you want to categorise linux or a computer
[01:36] <cassou> But education is very interesting too
[01:36] <ogra> nope
[01:36] <cassou> ogra, do you want to write a mail ? You will see very different uses
[01:36] <ogra> the education menu is supposed to go away
[01:36] <cassou> why ?
[01:36] <ogra> edubuntu will add dynamic menu profiles for one of the next releases
[01:37] <ogra> task driven ...
[01:37] <cassou> so what can I do then ?
[01:38] <ogra> cassou, as i said, most of the bugs were fixed yesterday, test the new packages ... and trigger a discussion on the edubuntu ML about the category if you like :)
[01:39] <ogra> and indeed, report bugs where you find them in the packages :)
[01:39] <cassou> ogra, I did not understand your last sentence. Have I done something wrong ?
[01:40] <ogra> er, nope
[01:40] <ogra> you asked what to do ...
[01:41] <ogra> and i said the new packages will need testing
[01:41] <cassou> sure I will test them
[01:41] <ogra> which LaserJock and i would really appreciate to get from someone who actually knows squeak :)
[01:41] <ogra> (neither of us uses it )
[01:42] <cassou> fell free to mail me when you need help, I really really want ubuntu to get a working squeak
[01:42] <ogra> we'll have one
[01:42] <ogra> :)
[01:43] <ogra> thankls for all the work you put in it :)
[01:44] <cassou> thanks for helping squeak
[01:44] <cassou> without knowing about it
[01:45] <cassou> minghua, I do not understand your comment on https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/squeak-vm/+bug/36806
[01:45] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 36806 in squeak-vm "amd64 version" [Normal,Unconfirmed] 
[01:45] <cassou> minghua, is it possible or not to build amd64 version ?
[01:45] <minghua> cassou: it is possible, but the package need to explicitly specify it
[01:46] <minghua> cassou: currently the package says "only build me on i386"
[01:46] <minghua> cassou: therefore no amd64 pacakge
[01:46] <cassou> minghua, I don't know why
[01:46] <ogra> cassou, you can build the vm on amd64 ...
[01:46] <cassou> minghua, I will send a mail to mailing list to know
[01:46] <ogra> cassou, but that doesnt mean it will be able to work with -source and -image ...
[01:47] <minghua> cassou: which part you don't know?
[01:47] <ogra> (its very unlikely they will work on amd64)
[01:47] <cassou> I'm not sure what can be done with the vm on amd64. I know it is in development but I don't know if a package can be released, if the images are compatible...
[01:47] <minghua> cassou: it's a feature in the package, it's easy to build on amd64, but we need to make sure it works on amd64 before that
[01:48] <cassou> I have an amd64, but I installed a 32bit dapper to test squeak on 32bits
[01:48] <minghua> cassou: and I suppose squeak won't work on powerpc?
[01:49] <ogra> cassou, dapper will be supported for 3 years, lets keep the experimental stuff for dapper+1 :)
[01:49] <cassou> there are vms for powerpc :-) lots of squeakers use a mac
[01:50] <cassou> I don't know if it is experimental or not, that's why I need to mail
[01:50] <cassou> If there is a squeak-vm for mac os x, is it sure that a vm will be able for dapper on power pc ?
[01:51] <Toadstool> i'm trying to build squeak-vm on my amd64 box
[01:51] <cassou> Toadstool, thank you very much
[01:52] <Toadstool> well it doesn't build...
[01:52] <Toadstool> i'll try to figure out why
[01:52] <cassou> is it because of the 'only build on i386' field ?
[01:52] <Toadstool> no I've added amd64 to debian/control ;)
[01:53] <cassou> another vm might be used then
[01:53] <cassou> I need to leave you know
[01:54] <TheMuso> Hey all.
[01:54] <cassou> minghua, ogra, Toadstool, thank you very much for your help. Feel free to mail me as soon as you have a question about squeak or a package
[01:54] <cassou> bye
[01:54] <Toadstool> see ya cassou
[01:54] <ogra> will do :)
[01:55] <minghua> cassou: bye
[02:16] <redguy> Does anyone know where does bootlogd write its log in ubuntu? Could not find /var/log/boot which is the default...
[02:22] <redguy> OK, found out that bootlogd is disabled by default in /etc/default/bootlogd. Can anybody tell me why??
[04:05] <LinuxJones> Has anybody seen seb128 around ?
[04:27] <bddebian> Heya gang
[04:27] <tseng> hi
[04:28] <bddebian> How come no one told me about the Bug Squad? :-)
[04:28] <bddebian> Heya tseng
[04:36] <dholbach> bddebian: man... it was on all the mailing lists
[04:36] <dholbach> :-)
[04:42] <bddebian> dholbach: I know, I'm lame these days :'-(
[04:42] <dholbach> comeon... :)
[06:04] <cassou> hi
[06:04] <cassou> ogra, are you still here ?
[06:35] <Yagisan> If the entire copyright notice in some code is " Use, distribute, and modify this code freely" that would be public domain right ?
[06:36] <azeem> Yagisan: it dubious whether distribution of modified works is allowed under such terms, AIUI
[06:36] <azeem> it's definetely not public domain
[06:36] <crimsun> no, not public domain
[06:38] <Yagisan> ok. I'm documenting all copyright in a package that I'd like to see in dapper +1, and found a file with that notice, that's gone author -> FLOSS project 1 -> FLOSS project 2
[06:40] <Yagisan> how would I call a file licensed as such ?
[06:41] <crimsun> doesn't mean anything. You should contact the contributors in addition to the original author for clarification.
[06:44] <phanatic> hi people
[06:50] <Yagisan> crimsun: thanks. it seems it was pinched from allegro (there are a few ifdef ALLEGRO_UNIX in there), so I'll grab the source to that and look for clarification
[06:50] <cassou> hi
[06:53] <cassou> ogra ?
[06:55] <ogra> cassou, sorry i'm very busy preparing flight-6 edubuntu CDs
[06:56] <cassou> ogra, no problem. I'm writing bug reports.
[06:56] <Yagisan> well, it doesn't seem different in intent to allegro.
[06:57] <ogra> cassou, please talk to LaserJock as well if he appears ...
[06:57] <cassou> ogra, ok
[06:57] <cassou> thanks
[06:57] <ogra> :)
[07:31] <david_> Hello, is there any list of games that are not in Ubuntu yet?
[07:31] <david_> I've only found this: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Teams/Games/NEW
[07:34] <Yagisan> david_: some are also listed in http://doc.gwos.org/index.php/Main_Page like my repo
[07:36] <david_> thanks :)
[08:18] <Lure> we are looking for somebody to REVU knetworkmanager package
[08:18] <Lure> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2220
[08:18] <Lure> we would like to have this pushed to universe, since network-manager 0.6.1 is in official repo
[09:42] <akulah> !ping
[10:18] <LaserJock> anybody know anything about zenity?
[10:18] <ajmitch> it has a cool name?
[10:19] <LaserJock> ajmitch: lol, I got that already
[10:20] <LaserJock> I'd like to make a wrapper script for an app that can do some file choosing and or select from a list