/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2006/04/05/#ubuntu-meeting.txt

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=== ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Documentation Team | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 03 Apr 09:00 UTC: Community Council | 05 Apr 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 05 Apr 14:00 UTC: Xubuntu | 06 Apr 08:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status | 11 Apr 20:00 UTC: Technical Board
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mdkeshall we meet?11:02
LaserJockare we ready for some FUN?11:02
robotgeekhere11:02
trappistlet's do it11:02
Burgworkfor certain values of fun11:03
mdkeok, is there an agenda?11:03
Burgworknope, but I have some points to raise11:03
trappistI didn't see a reference to one11:03
mdkehttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/MeetingAgenda11:03
LaserJockhttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/MeetingAgenda has an item about that *other* DE11:03
mdkeBurgwork, stick em on the page11:03
mdkeLaserJock, ewww11:03
mdkeshall we start with a basic overview of where documents are at? that might be useful?11:04
robotgeekhttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/Projects is the main page :)11:05
robotgeekhttp://doc.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/status/kdg-report.html is the status report for Kubuntu Desktop Guide11:05
mdkerobotgeek, what sections are struggling?11:06
robotgeeki really need help in the "Hardware" section, as i don't own any of those devices11:06
trappistwhat hardware needs help?11:07
robotgeekthe "Configuring your system" needs some love in the networking section, i am working on it though11:07
robotgeekpalms, digital camera and cell phones11:08
trappistbleh, I don't have those either11:08
mdkeok, the second of those sounds important11:08
mdkeisn't it just "plug in"11:08
trappistshould we solicit help from #kubuntu from somebody who does?11:08
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robotgeekyeah, but i can't verify anything without the hardware11:08
mdkegood plan trappist 11:08
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mdkeharass jjesse about it11:09
robotgeekjjesse might be the man11:10
robotgeekjjesse: need help with hardware in kubuntu :)11:10
jjessesorry missed it11:10
jjessesure i'll tackle it robotgeek11:10
robotgeekgreat!11:11
jjesseis that the biggest section you need robotgeek for the desktopguide11:11
robotgeekother than that, i think everything is done. 11:12
robotgeeki am proofreading too, and made a bunch of changes yesterday11:12
=== LaserJock shoots an envious glance at robotgeek
robotgeekLaserJock: my work was easier as I had the UDG to rely on11:12
mdkenice work11:13
mdkei think the UDG is in reasonable shape, barring any last minute tidying up11:13
trappistI laid backed off the apache stuff in the serverguide when that new guy offered himself up, but I don't recall hearing from him since then11:13
trappists/laid//11:13
mdkenew guy?11:14
=== trappist checks logs
mdkemight have been me11:14
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LaserJockyep, mdke is the new guy for sure ;-)11:15
robotgeekheh11:15
trappistk31th11:15
mdkeoh right11:15
mdkehe won't do anything11:15
mdkehe's been showing up saying he'll write stuff for a number of release cycles :)11:15
trappistthat's probably the safe assumption.  I've been spending my spare time on bugs since he said that.  I'll try to find some time this weekend for apache.  we still need help on wireless.11:16
trappistexcept, does wireless belong in the serverguide?11:16
mdkewhat is the wireless bit about?11:16
mdkei was gonna say...11:16
trappistit's part of the network configuration section11:17
robotgeekthe wiki has nice guides11:17
trappistshall we just get rid of it?11:17
trappistrobotgeek: I've heard that's true11:17
robotgeektrappist: is the section about making your computer a wireless hub (exotic)11:17
trappistplus we have the new network-manager with wpa goodness and stuff11:17
trappistrobotgeek: no11:17
trappistthere is no such section11:17
trappistit's just a network config section11:17
mdketrappist, unless it's about making an AP or something, i say we nuke it11:17
trappistagreed11:17
robotgeektrappist: yeah, it doesn't belong in the server guide :)11:18
mdkeok, so the apache section needs some work for virtual hosts, and general reviewing11:19
trappistmdke: what I saw in virtual hosts made me worry that the rest might need a lot of work too, but I haven't looked more closely yet11:19
robotgeekoh, btw the k31th guy also offered to write some Flight stuff for Kubuntu (havent heard from him)11:19
=== neuralis raises his hand for a question when you folks have a second.
mdketrappist, yes, how was the rest of the stuff you read?11:19
mdkeneuralis, shoot11:19
trappistmdke: didn't read the rest.  I read the vhost stuff and got freaked out and mailed the list11:20
neuralismdke: are you guys preparing in any way for the official book release? there'll be a book worth of content to plaster on the web somewhere, probably in an editable, wiki-like environment.11:20
mdkeneuralis, no, that's not related to us11:20
mdkeoh you mean by publishing the book itself?11:21
neuralismdke: no. when the book is released, it becomes gfdl/cc-licensed documentation.11:21
mdkeBurgwork, is that your licence?11:21
neuralismdke: yes.11:21
neuralismdke: i'm one of the authors.11:21
Burgworkmdke, neuralis is writing the server chapter11:21
mdkeah, you're ivan!11:21
neuralismdke: yes, pleased to meet you.11:22
mdkesame11:22
jjesseneuralis: i'm writing the kubuntu chapter :)11:22
mdkei assumed that the publishers would be publishing the book online11:22
neuralismdke: now, what i was saying -- you'll at some point get a dump of the chapters that you're free to use.11:22
neuralismdke: what makes the most sense, imo, is to create a separate documentation wiki and import the book there.11:22
neuralisthen open up the wiki to the public.11:22
mdkeneuralis, a second documentation wiki?11:23
neuralisjjesse: cool!11:23
Burgworkneuralis, are we certain it is going to be gfdl as well. I only saw the ccbysa on the last complete draft11:23
jjessei didn't know that was happening11:23
neuralismdke: is there a separate dociwki already?11:23
neuralisBurgwork: according to mako, it's gfdl+cc.11:23
mdkeneuralis, no, there is documentation on the main wiki. But we're hoping to move it11:23
Burgworkneuralis, 11:23
BurgworkI would rather munge the book into the desktop guide post dapper11:23
neuralismdke: right. it just shouldn't mix with the regular w.u.c wiki.11:23
Burgworkrahter than put it on the wiki11:24
neuralisBurgwork: well, there's content in there that doesn't really belong in the desktop guide (i hear some dude is writing a server chapter).11:24
mdkeneuralis, i'd also hesitate to mix it with our documentation, it would get very confusing11:24
jjessethat would work in the servguide11:24
neuralisBurgwork: and you want to benefit from the community continuing to update the material.11:24
mdkeneuralis, we have a server guide too...11:24
Burgworkneuralis, the communtiy can touch the desktop guide11:24
Burgworkdesktop guide wins us translation and pdf format11:24
neuralismdke, Burgwork: i'll support whatever you choose to do with the content, but there's importance in a low barrier of entry to people continuing to work on the material.11:24
neuralisgoing much above "log into the wiki and edit" is not a good idea.11:25
mdkeneuralis, well, if we could work only on a wiki, we would. But we can't for the distro documentation11:25
BurgworkI would rather work on getting an easy way for people to work on docbook11:25
jjesse+1 Burgwork11:25
trappistman would that be nice11:25
Burgworkbecause that would win us a lot more than just one guide11:25
neuralisdocudo promises to do this.11:25
Burgworkwe should investgate that doc editor done for gnome by google soc11:26
trappistI tried installing XMetaL via wine but it didn't happen11:26
Burgworkthat was online11:26
neuralishttp://www.checkandshare.com/blog/?p=4211:26
mdkei am a fan of the idea of using bits of the book for the various guides and wiki articles, but publishing it alongside might cause too much overlap11:27
neuralisseems promising; the docteam should get involved with the project and helping them spec it out so you can use it for your needs.11:27
neuraliss/helping/help/11:27
Burgworkmdke, we should look at restructuring hte desktop guide to allow easy publishing of it, instead of the official book11:27
Burgworkie, use the desktop guide as the target for any future book publishing11:28
mdkethat would be nice.11:28
neuralisBurgwork, mdke: anyway, i'll let you guys return to your regularly scheduled programming. i wanted to bring up the issue so i know you guys are thinking about it.11:28
mdkeneuralis, while you're here. Have you got time to have a quick look at the server guide over the next week or so? It has been a bit neglected and we'd love some input on what sort of state it is in11:28
Burgworkneuralis, np. I has been in my thought process for a few months yet11:28
mdkeneuralis, yep, thanks for raising it11:28
neuralismdke: i'm totally unavailable until the week after this one.11:28
mdkeneuralis, fair enough, thanks anyway11:29
mdkeI'll read your chapter and see if our guide is anywhere near accurate :)11:29
neuralismdke: there's a big difference in scope between my chapter and the server guide, last i looked at it.11:29
mdkesure11:29
neuralisok, i'm disappearing. thanks, folks.11:30
mdkethanks11:30
mdkewhere were we at?11:30
LaserJockKubuntu Desktop Guide status? or are we done with that11:30
mdkei think so, jjesse and robotgeek are gonna team up and kick ass11:31
robotgeeknuking wireless section in server guide11:31
jjessei thought we were done with that?11:31
jjessemdke thanks for the vote of confidence :)11:31
robotgeek:)11:31
trappistunknown just how much work apache needs in serverguide11:31
mdkeok, nuke the wireless, check to see if the server guide is ok11:31
mdkeubuntu desktop guide11:32
mdkeBurgwork, you had an item on it?11:32
Burgworkyep11:33
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mdkeBurgwork, go ahead11:33
BurgworkI am going to do a complete review of the desktop guide this weekend, but I need to make certain I am not stepping on anybodies toes11:34
mdkecool11:34
jjesseboth the kubuntu and ubuntu or just ubuntu?11:34
Burgworkjust ubuntu11:34
Burgworkare there any parts I shouldn't touch?11:34
mdkeBurgwork, what sort of stepping did you have in mind?11:34
jjesseok then when i lock myself in my office to finish my kubuntu chapter i'll review the desktopguide as well11:35
BurgworkI see some bits that need some rearrangement and merging11:35
robotgeekthanks jjesse 11:35
mdkei think i'd prefer it if you tell me or burger senior about rearranging the structure11:35
mdkebut we can always just check your commit logs11:36
Burgworkhmm, maybe I should sit down with my brother and hash it out11:36
Burgworkadvantage of living in the same town as him11:36
mdkeheh yeah that would rock11:36
Burgworkis he the primary author? I haven't truly been paying attention, due to other things11:37
LaserJockthe Burger Doc Sprint ?11:37
mdkeBurgwork, him and me are maintaining it11:37
Burgworkok11:37
jjessemmmm burgers sound good for dinner11:37
mdkeok, look forward to Corey's contribution on UDG11:37
mdkeLaserJock, PG?11:38
LaserJockhttp://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/status/pg-report.html11:38
mdkelooks promising11:38
LaserJock+ Chroot Environment -> Awaiting Review11:38
mdkeCDBS is big stuff isn't it?11:38
LaserJock+ Updating Packages -> In Progress11:39
LaserJockwell, yes and no11:39
LaserJockCDBS is simple to use, if it works11:39
LaserJockI was planning on just doing a brief into and mostly reference the Duckcorp guide11:39
LaserJockmostly because I've never used CDBS before11:40
LaserJockbut I got raphink to help me with that11:40
LaserJockalso the Kubuntu stuff11:40
mdkecool, sounds like you're on track11:40
LaserJockwell, I'm very worried about it but I'm trying my best11:40
mdkeif you need to take a bit more time over it, I'm sure it won't be a problem11:41
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jjessehow can we help review it?11:41
jjesseas i don't know anything about packaging :)11:41
LaserJockyou guys should just review anything that is "Awaiting Review" on the status report11:41
LaserJockI'm targeting more advanced users without any packaging experience11:42
LaserJockbut I use the CLI heavily11:42
LaserJockso if you guys can catch grammar and spelling11:42
LaserJockand also where I'm putting to much jargon in, etc. that would be very helpful11:43
mdkecool11:43
mdkeanything else on this?11:43
LaserJockafter I'm reasonably done (this weekend, I'm pretty sure)  I'm going to send an email to -motu and -devel and ask for review from developers11:43
LaserJockreally, the Introduction, Getting Started and Bugs chapters should be pretty easy to get through for people with no packaging experience11:44
LaserJockso if I can get some fresh eyes to tell me when I'm going too easy or too hard that would be useful11:45
LaserJockthat's pretty much it for the Packaging Guide for now11:46
mdkeok thanks LaserJock 11:46
mdkeany other docs to discuss?11:46
LaserJockIf I may, can I bring up a quick licensing issue?11:46
mdkesure11:46
mdkein passing, kubuntu release notes hasn't been converted to the new world order for contributor attribution11:47
mdkenor has ubuntu release notes11:47
robotgeekmdke: who maintains the one for kubuntu? jjesse ?11:47
mdkedunno11:48
jjessei do11:48
jjessei'm behind :(11:48
LaserJockSomebody, I can't remember who, was on #ubuntu-doc the other day and wanted to contribute material from Wikipedia to either the wiki and/or docs but wasn't sure if he could because of the wiki license11:48
mdkeoh yeah, i read that11:48
LaserJockis that an issue?11:48
mdkeif the licensing is moved to Public domain, he's right that he can't copy from wikipedia11:49
mdkepersonally, I think that's fine11:49
robotgeekjjesse: we some time on that, right?11:50
jjesseyes we do have sometime11:50
mdkeanyhow, you can't copy from wikipedia without correct attribution, etc, etc11:50
LaserJockso why would our wiki be different?11:52
mdkebecause it would be in the public domain11:52
mdkewikipedia is under copyright11:52
LaserJockhmm11:52
mdkesubject to the GFDL licence11:52
mdkeany more agenda action? bed calls11:53
Burgworknope11:54
LaserJockI think PD is better but it stinks that we can't share content11:55
mdkeLaserJock, eh?11:55
mdkesharing the content is the whole point of moving11:55
LaserJockmdke: moving content from wikipedia to our wiki is what I mean11:57
mdkeoh right. you have to get wikipedia to move to PD :)11:57
LaserJockwhat about from our docs to the wiki?11:58
LaserJockI know that usually it goes the other way around, but11:58
LaserJockI wonder if there would be a case for people making wiki pages that incorporate material from the docs11:58
mdkeyou have to get us to move to PD11:58
mdke:)11:59
LaserJocklol, can't see that happening11:59
LaserJockok, I gotta go. I've got a meeting11:59
mdkesee ya11:59
mdkebye all12:00
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jjesseok work's over have a great day/night :)12:00
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