[11:02] <mdke> shall we meet?
[11:02] <LaserJock> are we ready for some FUN?
[11:02] <robotgeek> here
[11:02] <trappist> let's do it
[11:03] <Burgwork> for certain values of fun
[11:03] <mdke> ok, is there an agenda?
[11:03] <Burgwork> nope, but I have some points to raise
[11:03] <trappist> I didn't see a reference to one
[11:03] <mdke> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/MeetingAgenda
[11:03] <LaserJock> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/MeetingAgenda has an item about that *other* DE
[11:03] <mdke> Burgwork, stick em on the page
[11:03] <mdke> LaserJock, ewww
[11:04] <mdke> shall we start with a basic overview of where documents are at? that might be useful?
[11:05] <robotgeek> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/Projects is the main page :)
[11:05] <robotgeek> http://doc.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/status/kdg-report.html is the status report for Kubuntu Desktop Guide
[11:06] <mdke> robotgeek, what sections are struggling?
[11:06] <robotgeek> i really need help in the "Hardware" section, as i don't own any of those devices
[11:07] <trappist> what hardware needs help?
[11:07] <robotgeek> the "Configuring your system" needs some love in the networking section, i am working on it though
[11:08] <robotgeek> palms, digital camera and cell phones
[11:08] <trappist> bleh, I don't have those either
[11:08] <mdke> ok, the second of those sounds important
[11:08] <mdke> isn't it just "plug in"
[11:08] <trappist> should we solicit help from #kubuntu from somebody who does?
[11:08] <robotgeek> yeah, but i can't verify anything without the hardware
[11:08] <mdke> good plan trappist 
[11:09] <mdke> harass jjesse about it
[11:10] <robotgeek> jjesse might be the man
[11:10] <robotgeek> jjesse: need help with hardware in kubuntu :)
[11:10] <jjesse> sorry missed it
[11:10] <jjesse> sure i'll tackle it robotgeek
[11:11] <robotgeek> great!
[11:11] <jjesse> is that the biggest section you need robotgeek for the desktopguide
[11:12] <robotgeek> other than that, i think everything is done. 
[11:12] <robotgeek> i am proofreading too, and made a bunch of changes yesterday
[11:12] <robotgeek> LaserJock: my work was easier as I had the UDG to rely on
[11:13] <mdke> nice work
[11:13] <mdke> i think the UDG is in reasonable shape, barring any last minute tidying up
[11:13] <trappist> I laid backed off the apache stuff in the serverguide when that new guy offered himself up, but I don't recall hearing from him since then
[11:13] <trappist> s/laid//
[11:14] <mdke> new guy?
[11:14] <mdke> might have been me
[11:15] <LaserJock> yep, mdke is the new guy for sure ;-)
[11:15] <robotgeek> heh
[11:15] <trappist> k31th
[11:15] <mdke> oh right
[11:15] <mdke> he won't do anything
[11:15] <mdke> he's been showing up saying he'll write stuff for a number of release cycles :)
[11:16] <trappist> that's probably the safe assumption.  I've been spending my spare time on bugs since he said that.  I'll try to find some time this weekend for apache.  we still need help on wireless.
[11:16] <trappist> except, does wireless belong in the serverguide?
[11:16] <mdke> what is the wireless bit about?
[11:16] <mdke> i was gonna say...
[11:17] <trappist> it's part of the network configuration section
[11:17] <robotgeek> the wiki has nice guides
[11:17] <trappist> shall we just get rid of it?
[11:17] <trappist> robotgeek: I've heard that's true
[11:17] <robotgeek> trappist: is the section about making your computer a wireless hub (exotic)
[11:17] <trappist> plus we have the new network-manager with wpa goodness and stuff
[11:17] <trappist> robotgeek: no
[11:17] <trappist> there is no such section
[11:17] <trappist> it's just a network config section
[11:17] <mdke> trappist, unless it's about making an AP or something, i say we nuke it
[11:17] <trappist> agreed
[11:18] <robotgeek> trappist: yeah, it doesn't belong in the server guide :)
[11:19] <mdke> ok, so the apache section needs some work for virtual hosts, and general reviewing
[11:19] <trappist> mdke: what I saw in virtual hosts made me worry that the rest might need a lot of work too, but I haven't looked more closely yet
[11:19] <robotgeek> oh, btw the k31th guy also offered to write some Flight stuff for Kubuntu (havent heard from him)
[11:19] <mdke> trappist, yes, how was the rest of the stuff you read?
[11:19] <mdke> neuralis, shoot
[11:20] <trappist> mdke: didn't read the rest.  I read the vhost stuff and got freaked out and mailed the list
[11:20] <neuralis> mdke: are you guys preparing in any way for the official book release? there'll be a book worth of content to plaster on the web somewhere, probably in an editable, wiki-like environment.
[11:20] <mdke> neuralis, no, that's not related to us
[11:21] <mdke> oh you mean by publishing the book itself?
[11:21] <neuralis> mdke: no. when the book is released, it becomes gfdl/cc-licensed documentation.
[11:21] <mdke> Burgwork, is that your licence?
[11:21] <neuralis> mdke: yes.
[11:21] <neuralis> mdke: i'm one of the authors.
[11:21] <Burgwork> mdke, neuralis is writing the server chapter
[11:21] <mdke> ah, you're ivan!
[11:22] <neuralis> mdke: yes, pleased to meet you.
[11:22] <mdke> same
[11:22] <jjesse> neuralis: i'm writing the kubuntu chapter :)
[11:22] <mdke> i assumed that the publishers would be publishing the book online
[11:22] <neuralis> mdke: now, what i was saying -- you'll at some point get a dump of the chapters that you're free to use.
[11:22] <neuralis> mdke: what makes the most sense, imo, is to create a separate documentation wiki and import the book there.
[11:22] <neuralis> then open up the wiki to the public.
[11:23] <mdke> neuralis, a second documentation wiki?
[11:23] <neuralis> jjesse: cool!
[11:23] <Burgwork> neuralis, are we certain it is going to be gfdl as well. I only saw the ccbysa on the last complete draft
[11:23] <jjesse> i didn't know that was happening
[11:23] <neuralis> mdke: is there a separate dociwki already?
[11:23] <neuralis> Burgwork: according to mako, it's gfdl+cc.
[11:23] <mdke> neuralis, no, there is documentation on the main wiki. But we're hoping to move it
[11:23] <Burgwork> neuralis, 
[11:23] <Burgwork> I would rather munge the book into the desktop guide post dapper
[11:23] <neuralis> mdke: right. it just shouldn't mix with the regular w.u.c wiki.
[11:24] <Burgwork> rahter than put it on the wiki
[11:24] <neuralis> Burgwork: well, there's content in there that doesn't really belong in the desktop guide (i hear some dude is writing a server chapter).
[11:24] <mdke> neuralis, i'd also hesitate to mix it with our documentation, it would get very confusing
[11:24] <jjesse> that would work in the servguide
[11:24] <neuralis> Burgwork: and you want to benefit from the community continuing to update the material.
[11:24] <mdke> neuralis, we have a server guide too...
[11:24] <Burgwork> neuralis, the communtiy can touch the desktop guide
[11:24] <Burgwork> desktop guide wins us translation and pdf format
[11:24] <neuralis> mdke, Burgwork: i'll support whatever you choose to do with the content, but there's importance in a low barrier of entry to people continuing to work on the material.
[11:25] <neuralis> going much above "log into the wiki and edit" is not a good idea.
[11:25] <mdke> neuralis, well, if we could work only on a wiki, we would. But we can't for the distro documentation
[11:25] <Burgwork> I would rather work on getting an easy way for people to work on docbook
[11:25] <jjesse> +1 Burgwork
[11:25] <trappist> man would that be nice
[11:25] <Burgwork> because that would win us a lot more than just one guide
[11:25] <neuralis> docudo promises to do this.
[11:26] <Burgwork> we should investgate that doc editor done for gnome by google soc
[11:26] <trappist> I tried installing XMetaL via wine but it didn't happen
[11:26] <Burgwork> that was online
[11:26] <neuralis> http://www.checkandshare.com/blog/?p=42
[11:27] <mdke> i am a fan of the idea of using bits of the book for the various guides and wiki articles, but publishing it alongside might cause too much overlap
[11:27] <neuralis> seems promising; the docteam should get involved with the project and helping them spec it out so you can use it for your needs.
[11:27] <neuralis> s/helping/help/
[11:27] <Burgwork> mdke, we should look at restructuring hte desktop guide to allow easy publishing of it, instead of the official book
[11:28] <Burgwork> ie, use the desktop guide as the target for any future book publishing
[11:28] <mdke> that would be nice.
[11:28] <neuralis> Burgwork, mdke: anyway, i'll let you guys return to your regularly scheduled programming. i wanted to bring up the issue so i know you guys are thinking about it.
[11:28] <mdke> neuralis, while you're here. Have you got time to have a quick look at the server guide over the next week or so? It has been a bit neglected and we'd love some input on what sort of state it is in
[11:28] <Burgwork> neuralis, np. I has been in my thought process for a few months yet
[11:28] <mdke> neuralis, yep, thanks for raising it
[11:28] <neuralis> mdke: i'm totally unavailable until the week after this one.
[11:29] <mdke> neuralis, fair enough, thanks anyway
[11:29] <mdke> I'll read your chapter and see if our guide is anywhere near accurate :)
[11:29] <neuralis> mdke: there's a big difference in scope between my chapter and the server guide, last i looked at it.
[11:29] <mdke> sure
[11:30] <neuralis> ok, i'm disappearing. thanks, folks.
[11:30] <mdke> thanks
[11:30] <mdke> where were we at?
[11:30] <LaserJock> Kubuntu Desktop Guide status? or are we done with that
[11:31] <mdke> i think so, jjesse and robotgeek are gonna team up and kick ass
[11:31] <robotgeek> nuking wireless section in server guide
[11:31] <jjesse> i thought we were done with that?
[11:31] <jjesse> mdke thanks for the vote of confidence :)
[11:31] <robotgeek> :)
[11:31] <trappist> unknown just how much work apache needs in serverguide
[11:31] <mdke> ok, nuke the wireless, check to see if the server guide is ok
[11:32] <mdke> ubuntu desktop guide
[11:32] <mdke> Burgwork, you had an item on it?
[11:33] <Burgwork> yep
[11:33] <mdke> Burgwork, go ahead
[11:34] <Burgwork> I am going to do a complete review of the desktop guide this weekend, but I need to make certain I am not stepping on anybodies toes
[11:34] <mdke> cool
[11:34] <jjesse> both the kubuntu and ubuntu or just ubuntu?
[11:34] <Burgwork> just ubuntu
[11:34] <Burgwork> are there any parts I shouldn't touch?
[11:34] <mdke> Burgwork, what sort of stepping did you have in mind?
[11:35] <jjesse> ok then when i lock myself in my office to finish my kubuntu chapter i'll review the desktopguide as well
[11:35] <Burgwork> I see some bits that need some rearrangement and merging
[11:35] <robotgeek> thanks jjesse 
[11:35] <mdke> i think i'd prefer it if you tell me or burger senior about rearranging the structure
[11:36] <mdke> but we can always just check your commit logs
[11:36] <Burgwork> hmm, maybe I should sit down with my brother and hash it out
[11:36] <Burgwork> advantage of living in the same town as him
[11:36] <mdke> heh yeah that would rock
[11:37] <Burgwork> is he the primary author? I haven't truly been paying attention, due to other things
[11:37] <LaserJock> the Burger Doc Sprint ?
[11:37] <mdke> Burgwork, him and me are maintaining it
[11:37] <Burgwork> ok
[11:37] <jjesse> mmmm burgers sound good for dinner
[11:37] <mdke> ok, look forward to Corey's contribution on UDG
[11:38] <mdke> LaserJock, PG?
[11:38] <LaserJock> http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/status/pg-report.html
[11:38] <mdke> looks promising
[11:38] <LaserJock> + Chroot Environment -> Awaiting Review
[11:38] <mdke> CDBS is big stuff isn't it?
[11:39] <LaserJock> + Updating Packages -> In Progress
[11:39] <LaserJock> well, yes and no
[11:39] <LaserJock> CDBS is simple to use, if it works
[11:39] <LaserJock> I was planning on just doing a brief into and mostly reference the Duckcorp guide
[11:40] <LaserJock> mostly because I've never used CDBS before
[11:40] <LaserJock> but I got raphink to help me with that
[11:40] <LaserJock> also the Kubuntu stuff
[11:40] <mdke> cool, sounds like you're on track
[11:40] <LaserJock> well, I'm very worried about it but I'm trying my best
[11:41] <mdke> if you need to take a bit more time over it, I'm sure it won't be a problem
[11:41] <jjesse> how can we help review it?
[11:41] <jjesse> as i don't know anything about packaging :)
[11:41] <LaserJock> you guys should just review anything that is "Awaiting Review" on the status report
[11:42] <LaserJock> I'm targeting more advanced users without any packaging experience
[11:42] <LaserJock> but I use the CLI heavily
[11:42] <LaserJock> so if you guys can catch grammar and spelling
[11:43] <LaserJock> and also where I'm putting to much jargon in, etc. that would be very helpful
[11:43] <mdke> cool
[11:43] <mdke> anything else on this?
[11:43] <LaserJock> after I'm reasonably done (this weekend, I'm pretty sure)  I'm going to send an email to -motu and -devel and ask for review from developers
[11:44] <LaserJock> really, the Introduction, Getting Started and Bugs chapters should be pretty easy to get through for people with no packaging experience
[11:45] <LaserJock> so if I can get some fresh eyes to tell me when I'm going too easy or too hard that would be useful
[11:46] <LaserJock> that's pretty much it for the Packaging Guide for now
[11:46] <mdke> ok thanks LaserJock 
[11:46] <mdke> any other docs to discuss?
[11:46] <LaserJock> If I may, can I bring up a quick licensing issue?
[11:46] <mdke> sure
[11:47] <mdke> in passing, kubuntu release notes hasn't been converted to the new world order for contributor attribution
[11:47] <mdke> nor has ubuntu release notes
[11:47] <robotgeek> mdke: who maintains the one for kubuntu? jjesse ?
[11:48] <mdke> dunno
[11:48] <jjesse> i do
[11:48] <jjesse> i'm behind :(
[11:48] <LaserJock> Somebody, I can't remember who, was on #ubuntu-doc the other day and wanted to contribute material from Wikipedia to either the wiki and/or docs but wasn't sure if he could because of the wiki license
[11:48] <mdke> oh yeah, i read that
[11:48] <LaserJock> is that an issue?
[11:49] <mdke> if the licensing is moved to Public domain, he's right that he can't copy from wikipedia
[11:49] <mdke> personally, I think that's fine
[11:50] <robotgeek> jjesse: we some time on that, right?
[11:50] <jjesse> yes we do have sometime
[11:50] <mdke> anyhow, you can't copy from wikipedia without correct attribution, etc, etc
[11:52] <LaserJock> so why would our wiki be different?
[11:52] <mdke> because it would be in the public domain
[11:52] <mdke> wikipedia is under copyright
[11:52] <LaserJock> hmm
[11:52] <mdke> subject to the GFDL licence
[11:53] <mdke> any more agenda action? bed calls
[11:54] <Burgwork> nope
[11:55] <LaserJock> I think PD is better but it stinks that we can't share content
[11:55] <mdke> LaserJock, eh?
[11:55] <mdke> sharing the content is the whole point of moving
[11:57] <LaserJock> mdke: moving content from wikipedia to our wiki is what I mean
[11:57] <mdke> oh right. you have to get wikipedia to move to PD :)
[11:58] <LaserJock> what about from our docs to the wiki?
[11:58] <LaserJock> I know that usually it goes the other way around, but
[11:58] <LaserJock> I wonder if there would be a case for people making wiki pages that incorporate material from the docs
[11:58] <mdke> you have to get us to move to PD
[11:59] <mdke> :)
[11:59] <LaserJock> lol, can't see that happening
[11:59] <LaserJock> ok, I gotta go. I've got a meeting
[11:59] <mdke> see ya
[12:00] <mdke> bye all
[12:00] <jjesse> ok work's over have a great day/night :)