[05:43] <nictuku> how reasonable is it to expect, in the long run, that ubuntu acts like a "Debian Enterprise" - but in the sense that it is supported by products of major players like Oracle?
[05:44] <nictuku> that's a possibility I'm really excited with about ubuntu server.
[05:44] <nictuku> But as I didn't see it mentioned in the UbuntuServer, I don't know if it is in the agenda.
[05:45] <nictuku> I only know that IBM's DB2 is homologated (is this wording fine?) for Ubuntu.
[05:47] <neuralis> nictuku: we're working onit.
[05:47] <neuralis> on it, even.
[05:48] <nictuku> nice :-D. is there any public information available somewhere?
[05:48] <neuralis> not at the moment, no.
[05:48] <nictuku> how can volunteers help on that?
[05:49] <nictuku> I mean, technically
[05:51] <neuralis> ISV certifications are a pretty finicky and particular process. we appreciate your willingness to help, but i'm afraid the process mostly has to be left to canonical.
[05:51] <nictuku> I thought so, but it wouldn't hurt to ask.
[05:52] <neuralis> certainly. and if you have contacts at ISVs, convincing them to get in touch with canonical about certifying ubuntu is certainly one way to help.
[05:52] <nictuku> That would be a major news for, well, at least the whole Debian community.
[05:53] <neuralis> nictuku: rest assured, it's being taken seriously at canonical.
[05:55] <nictuku> neuralis, would you mind if I blog about what you're saying? I think many others would be interested
[05:57] <neuralis> nictuku: actually, i would. i'm not a canonical employee.
[05:57] <nictuku> Oh I see
[05:57] <neuralis> nictuku: i'm happy to put you in touch with the right person if you wanted to get the official position, though.
[05:58] <nictuku> I'd be interested, yes.
[05:58] <neuralis> nictuku: Malcolm Yates <mdy@canonical.com>
[05:59] <nictuku> thank you
[05:59] <neuralis> nictuku: sure. you're also welcome to quote me as a member of the server team, as long as you make it perfectly clear it's unofficial and not coming from an employee.
[06:00] <nictuku> sure
[06:01] <nictuku> there is this mail from Mark Shuttleworth mentioning ISV certifications, which helps http://lwn.net/Articles/175272/
[06:02] <nictuku> by the way
[06:03] <nictuku> There's a lot of road to run until official communication doesn't just help fostering the idea that ubuntu is only about desktop.
[06:04] <neuralis> yes, that's an unfortunate problem with our marketing. we're debunking some of it in the server chapter of the official ubuntu book, soon to be released, and i'm working on some extra advocacy efforts for ubuntu server.
[06:05] <nictuku> that e-mail just reinforces that
[06:06] <neuralis> i disagree. a lot of that e-mail is desktop/server agnostic.
[06:06] <neuralis> testing, certification and 24x7 global tech support apply equally to servers and desktops, for instance.
[06:06] <nictuku> most part of it
[06:06] <nictuku> We would like to show that a
[06:06] <nictuku> Debian-based distribution can deliver the same world class desktop punch
[06:06] <nictuku> that you might traditionally expect from Novell or Red Hat.
[06:06] <nictuku> (quote)
[06:08] <neuralis> right. it would have been nice to have ubuntu server mentioned there, and i'll talk to mark about mentioning it next time, but the word about ubuntu server is definitely getting out.
[06:08] <neuralis> and we're still a young effort, with a lot of the really nifty features planned after dapper.
[06:09] <nictuku> Another issues that worries me, and I'm sorry if that has been discussed too much (not in the ubuntu-server list, though, which I read), are the blessed server packages.
[06:09] <neuralis> what worries you?
[06:09] <nictuku> sure, and we're excited with all that. I'm even trying to help with what I can, implementing one of the specs.
[06:10] <neuralis> nictuku: hm?
[06:10] <nictuku> well, from a sysadmin point of view, this idea that only a part of main will have long time support is confusing, and even maybe useless sometimes.
[06:11] <neuralis> nictuku: i didn't understand the "we're excited with all that" message, was that aimed for a different channel?
[06:12] <nictuku> sorry, I meant excited with the server effort.
[06:12] <nictuku> and "we" I meant, the community
[06:12] <neuralis> ah, cool. which spec are you working on?
[06:12] <nictuku> network wide updates
[06:13] <nictuku> even having main and universe is confusing.
[06:13] <neuralis> as for only part of main being supported, it makes sense. the alternative is a different archive for server and desktop ubuntu, and that's really best avoided.
[06:13] <nictuku> I know the reasons, I'm just thinking from a marketing and user point of view.
[06:16] <nictuku> https://dev.ubuntubrasil.org/trac/nwu
[06:21] <neuralis> looks neat! i'll have to take a closer look later.
[06:23] <nictuku> thank you. I hope the PyGTK interface we're working on will be coolness compliant.
[06:23] <neuralis> i don't think i've seen this mentioned on ubuntu-server, can you post about it there?
[06:25] <neuralis> hmm. why did you choose to go with SOAP?
[06:26] <nictuku> no, xml-rpc
[06:26] <nictuku> Used SOAP, then moved to xml-rpc
[06:26] <neuralis> good. the wiki mentions SOAP, i'll correct it.
[06:26] <nictuku> thank you
[06:26] <nictuku> I'm currently working on the packages so testing can be easier.
[06:27] <neuralis> great. please do post about it on the list, this is something that'll interest a lot of people, and you can benefit from the added testing.
[06:27] <nictuku> A Debian developer friend of mine have even offered to send it to unstable already
[06:27] <nictuku> and it's on revu too
[06:28] <nictuku> right, I will, despite being very afraid of disappointing testers.
[06:29] <neuralis> disappointed testers are much better than apathetic testers.
[06:29] <neuralis> disappointed testers complain and tell you what's not good, and then you can fix it.
[06:31] <neuralis> also, in a tool like nwu, security is paramount. you'll want to find a security person or two to give you a review before making the case for distro inclusion.
[06:32] <nictuku> yes, that a major concern
[06:34] <neuralis> i'm happy to do a security review of this in a month or so when my schedule clears up, so feel free to mail me around then and remind me to do it.
[06:34] <nictuku> and one of the reasons I didn't mention it in the lists, because there are known unresolved security issues already. (clients always accept server SSL certificate)
[06:35] <neuralis> well, you shouldn't let these things prevent you from asking people to test it. no one expects a perfect product on the first go. really. just mention the unresolved issues, and it'll be fine.
[06:45] <nictuku> you're right, but i still have to convince the perfectionist part of myself of that
[06:46] <neuralis> i empathize; i'm the same way ;)
[06:46] <nictuku> my idea was to ship a very basic set of features, but a nice, stable and safe set of features.
[06:47] <nictuku> the features are there already, I'm working on making it stable and safe.
[06:47] <nictuku> and, argh, writing documentation
[06:54] <nictuku> can i have your e-mail address? I'll contact you next month then, if you don't mind.
[06:57] <neuralis> nictuku: krstic@fas.harvard.edu
[06:58] <nictuku> thank you
[07:02] <neuralis> sure. thanks for your work on this!
[07:13] <nictuku> I hope the CC recons that on the monday meeting :-).
[07:23] <neuralis> hm?
[07:28] <nictuku> i'm on the process of being accepted as a ubuntu member. That's on the community council meeting agenda..
[07:29] <neuralis> cool.
[04:40] <tarvid> with a default postfix and fetchmail  install, which is the easiest imap server to use with mbox?
[07:39] <yves> hi
[07:57] <nictuku> Are there plans to LSB ceritication in Ubuntu? Mark Shuttleworth has once mentioned that "If we were to do LSB for Ubuntu, it would be done directly rather than as a compatibility layer.". So I guess that Ubuntu would rather take the long path of making Debian LSB-compatible - which seems to be the RightWay.
[11:12] <ivoks> we should really include new samba :/