[12:02] <Kamion> ok, that should be doable, maybe Tuesday rather than tomorrow though (Monday night is often karate training night for me)
[12:03] <Lure> s/by/buy/
[12:03] <Kamion> right, bedtime, thanks in advance
[12:03] <Lure> Kamion: thank you
[12:38] <YokoZar> What's a good way to see what packages depend or recommend another package?
[12:40] <Lure> apt-cache depends <package> and apt-cache rdepends
[12:40] <YokoZar> thanks Lu
[12:40] <YokoZar> Lure
[12:40] <Lure> sorry rdepends is reverse depends and you are asking for recomment
[12:40] <Lure> s/recomment/recommend/ - time for bed ;-)
[12:42] <YokoZar> Good night
[12:58] <neuralis> Kamion: do you want espresso test reports to u-d@, by private mail, or in malone?
[01:59] <bddebian> infinity: ping?
[01:59] <bddebian> Does Debian want to know about .desktop files?
[02:00] <LaserJock> they should ;-)
[02:02] <robertj> Debian doesn't even know about guis ;)
[02:03] <bddebian> hehe
[02:04] <robertj> btw, we can have an official count of our "upgrade-a-holics" by measuring the decrease in use after sarge and then the increase after the next release ;)
[02:04] <robertj> (or we could if we actually had a way to measure general usage to begin with, security updates perhaps? ;)
[03:08] <infinity> Ahh, daylight savings time, thou hast bested and confused me once again.
[03:08] <infinity> bddebian: pong.
[03:09] <bddebian> heh
[03:11] <bddebian> infinity: WTF happened to lamonts buildlogs?  Ugh.  Anyway, can you tell if xfonts-marumoji showed up in NEW?  Or is there somewhere I can look in LaunchPud?  I didn't get an accept or reject from katie
[03:12] <jdub> http://nerdvana.org.au/steve/gallery/displayimage.php?album=7&pos=2
[03:13] <sladen> bddebian: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/dapper/+source/PACKAGENAME
[03:14] <sladen> bddebian: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/dapper/+source/PACKAGENAME/+builds is a better URL to start at
[03:15] <infinity> Actually, that's a pretty shit URL to start at, since this package hasn't been uploaded for eons.
[03:15] <infinity> (Only the data since the switch to launchpad is even close to accurate and useful)
[03:22] <infinity> Oh, duh.
[03:22] <infinity> bddebian:  xfonts-marumoji (0.2-6ubuntu1) unstable; urgency=low
[03:23] <infinity> bddebian: What's wrong with this picture? ^^^^^^^^
[03:23] <bddebian> fuck
[03:23] <bddebian> Why didn't I get a rejected?
[03:23] <infinity> And yes, soyuz isn't (currently) producing reject mails on incorrect distribution.
[03:24] <infinity> Bug.  It's failing the uploads instead of rejecting them.
[03:24] <infinity> (known bug, at that)
[03:25] <bddebian> Well I've been "out of the loop" for a while :-(
[03:25] <desrt> irc -- the ultimate fixed-width medium
[03:27] <dieman> rock
[03:27] <dieman> networkmanager worked with WPA PSK
[03:27] <dieman> now to try with WPA Enterprise tomorrow morning
[03:28] <bddebian> infinity: Dumb question.  Can I re-upload with ubuntu1 version?
[03:31] <infinity> bddebian: Yes, failed and rejected uploads have never made it far enough into the queue to be tracked/counted.
[03:31] <bddebian> Great, thx
[03:35] <desrt> nm hates me.
[03:36] <bddebian> That's OK, everyone hates me :-)
[03:43] <bddebian> sladen: BTW, thanks but those links don't show me shit about a failed/rejected upload :-)
[03:52] <`anthony> I was going to try out a livecd on a bunch of random Dell laptops here at work. Should I use Flight 6, or a daily snapshot?
[03:53] <infinity> `anthony: There won't be much difference between Flight-6 and a daily anyway, given that we just released Flight-6...
[03:56] <`anthony> infinity: ok dokey.
[03:57] <`anthony> should I log a report somewhere with the results once I'm done? There's about 6 different models of dell laptop I can get my hands on easily...
[03:58] <infinity> `anthony: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LaptopTesting may be of interest.
[04:00] <`anthony> Yep. Although that wants people to install Dapper - if I drop a pre-release of Dapper over the installed XP on the salesfolks' laptops, they're going to be molto cranky :)
[04:00] <`anthony> livecd testing isn't _as_ good, but it's better than nothing.
[04:01] <nictuku> anyone willing to test nwu before I go nuts and announce it on -server and -devel lists?
[04:02] <infinity> nictuku: If you want testers, you might try asking when Europe isn't all asleep. :)
[04:03] <nictuku> infinity, I count on the Americas and Asia :-D
[04:05] <bddebian> Fuck, I did it again with apt-listbugs
[04:06] <jdub> bddebian: make a uch script in your ~/bin that does The Right Thing :)
[04:07] <bddebian> jdub: They aren't my changelog entries and I keep forgetting to check that.. :-(
[04:07] <bddebian> I worry about the version and ignore the distro..
[04:18] <infinity> ogra: Do you have any urge to make ltsp-* installable on hppa and ia64?
[04:26] <bddebian> nictuku: What did you need tested?
[04:27] <nictuku> package installation and check that there are no show stoppers
[04:28] <bddebian> Sorry, for which package?
[04:29] <nictuku> nwu-agent (depends on python-sysinfo) and nwu-server. None of them are in official reps
[04:29] <nictuku> I'm creating a repository right now
[04:29] <bddebian> Ah, OK
[04:30] <nictuku> nwu description is in https://dev.ubuntubrasil.org/trac/nwu/wiki
[04:38] <infinity> ogra: Nevermind, I'll do it when I have some hppa hardware locally to play with.
[04:49] <dholbach> good morning
[04:52] <jdong> is the debtags postinst problem a known issue?
[04:53] <jdong> I'm wondering if I should LP it
[04:53] <bddebian> Goddamnit, why is bittornado bug assigned to MOTUs when it's a main package?
[04:53] <dholbach> malone bug 37794
[04:53] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 37794 in debtags "Installing debtags results in a ConsistencyCheckException" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/37794
[04:53] <dholbach> simply searching in malone does help :-p
[04:58] <jdong> dholbach: thanks, sorry for my laziness
[04:58] <dholbach> don't worry
[04:59] <jsgotangco> stll awake eh dholbach?
[04:59] <jsgotangco> or early riser
[04:59] <dholbach> no... couldn't sleep anymore
[04:59] <infinity> Had to walk the dog at 4am? :)
[04:59] <desrt> dholbach is not looking forward to having to fix dpkg
[05:00] <dholbach> infinity: no... the dog is sleeping... narf!
[05:00] <dholbach> desrt: hu? dpkg? what? fixing?
[05:00] <desrt> dholbach; to make it touch all the parent directories when installing files into subdirectories
[05:00] <desrt> ahem.
[05:00] <infinity> desrt: Err, what?
[05:00] <infinity> desrt: Why on earth would you want that?
[05:02] <desrt> infinity; once upon a time there was a spec....
[05:02] <lifeless> 99 specs on the wall, 99 specs on the wall, and the little one says 'move over'
[05:03] <infinity> desrt: A spec about changing every directory each time an inode is touched?  This seems... Not sane.
[05:03] <desrt> infinity; basically, the gtk icon theme cache doesn't realise that its out of date unless the parent directory of the cache is touched when you install icons anywhere into the entire tree
[05:03] <desrt> infinity; so the spec says that you have to touch the parent dir whenever installing icons
[05:04] <desrt> *it's
[05:04] <infinity> desrt: Which is a pretty specific bug/feature of that one application, not a misfeature of dpkg (or, dare I say, UNIX)
[05:04] <infinity> desrt: So, either fix the app to recognize icon changes, or fix the packages that install icons to touch the magic directory in postinst.
[05:04] <infinity> desrt: Changing dpkg here is just plain wrong.
[05:04] <desrt> infinity; it's a specific bug/feature that a few hundred apps in ubuntu share
[05:05] <desrt> infinity; plus.  i was kidding about changing dpkg :)
[05:05] <desrt> infinity; i just said it to hilight the insanity of the situation
[05:05] <infinity> No, exactly one thing in Ubuntu has the bug, GTK.  Not hundreds of apps.
[05:05] <infinity> Though the fix may end up in hundreds of apps.
[05:05] <desrt> heh.  you appear to agree with seb :)
[05:05] <infinity> (Perhaps some sort of dh_fiddlewithiconcache thing might help)
[05:05] <desrt> gtk follows the spec.  dpkg does not.
[05:06] <infinity> Then the spec is wrong.
[05:06] <desrt> ie: even if the makefile of the app touches the parent dir on make install dpkg won't convey this information
[05:06] <infinity> UNIX filesystem convention says that when you change an inode, you change that inode, not that inode and every parent directory back to /
[05:06] <dholbach> infinity: that's what I wrote when I woke up, that dh_fiddle-thing
[05:07] <desrt> right.  but dpkg is supposed to make it sort of like you just did 'make install'
[05:07] <infinity> Says who?
[05:07] <desrt> nobody, i suppose.
[05:07] <infinity> The tarball part of a Debian package is just that, a tarball.  If you need more fancy action, that's why we have maintainer scripts.
[05:08] <desrt> but if a manual 'make install' works and the package fails to work then something is wrong with the packaging
[05:08] <desrt> not the package and not gtk
[05:08] <infinity> I won't disagree that something may be wrong with the packaging, just not that the problem is dpkg's.
[05:08] <desrt> fair.
[05:08] <desrt> dholbach; dh_fiddle is gonna be.... how many days do you think it would take to go through all those packages?
[05:09] <infinity> Though, in the Debian/Ubuntu context (or the context of packaging in general, I doubt RPM does what you want either), GTK could be considered buggy here.
[05:09] <dholbach> desrt: i'll have to discuss it first
[05:09] <infinity> We vendor-patch GTK all the time, why stop now?
[05:10] <desrt> quite.
[05:11] <infinity> So, I assume it's using inofity/dnotify to watch one specific directory for changes, and if that dir never changes, no cache flush?
[05:13] <desrt> launchpad's new change-grouping feature is really nice
[05:13] <desrt> cuts down a lot on the spam
[05:31] <jsgotangco> infinity: what happened to the x and xorg.conf man pages?
[05:31] <infinity> Shuffle.  Lost in the.
[05:32] <jsgotangco> yeah
[05:32] <infinity> This is true of many X-related manpages.
[05:32] <infinity> I suppose one of us should look at that this week.
[05:32] <infinity> Perhaps some keen new X SWAT member.
[05:32] <jsgotangco> gahh
[05:32] <jsgotangco> ok
[05:33] <jsgotangco> i just confirmed a bug about it though
[05:33] <infinity> Yeah, there are many.
[05:33] <infinity> I doubt we've actually lost any manpages in source packages, I just suspect that many of them aren't actually making it into the binary packages anymore.
[05:34] <infinity> I've not had much time yet to set aside to looking into it, however.
[05:34] <jsgotangco> hah so people *do* still care about man pages
[05:35] <robertj> does anything actually consume the dbus new mail notifications?
[05:36] <infinity> Does anything create any?
[05:37] <robertj> infinity: evolution new mail plugin
[05:37] <robertj> new-mail-notify is enabled by default
[05:37] <infinity> Ahh.  Then I guess it's time for someone to write a DBUS-enabled biff of some sort. :)
[05:37] <robertj> well I was thinking more along the lines of time for evolution to make it's new mail plugin useful
[05:38] <robertj> dbus messages are really cool but not what 99.999% of users want
[07:32] <dholbach> who can help a poor man with a bit of perl foo? I'm looking for something like python's   s.replace("blubb/123", "")
[07:33] <Treenaks> dholbach: $blah =~ s/some_word/another_work/; ?
[07:33] <Treenaks> maybe even $blah =~ s/some_word/another_work/g;
[07:33] <Treenaks> (see the 'perlre' manpage)
[07:33] <Treenaks> morning Burgundavia 
[07:33] <dholbach> Treenaks: can I give it something like a path too?
[07:34] <dholbach> or do I have to use   s:some/crazy/path::  then?
[07:34] <Treenaks> dholbach: it's just a plain regular expresion, like you would feed to sed or awk or vim
[07:34] <Treenaks> dholbach: yes, that would work too
[07:34] <dholbach> nice
[07:34] <dholbach> merci beaucoup
[07:36] <dholbach> IT! WORKS!
[07:36] <Treenaks> infinity: You don't know the power of the Dark Side!
[07:36] <ajmitch> poor dholbach 
[07:36] <ajmitch> he had so much promise
[07:37] <dholbach> infinity: I wonder how many people would see me "on the dark side" if I'd add a python dependency to debhelper :-p
[07:37] <infinity> dholbach: Joey Hess.
[07:37] <nictuku> "you don't know the power of ".. perl
[07:37] <dholbach> for one... :)
[07:37] <infinity> dholbach: And me, probably.
[07:37] <dholbach> see
[07:38] <infinity> Concievably, that cjwatson fellow, too.
[07:38] <dholbach> hhaha
[07:38] <jsgotangco> i am your father?
[07:38] <jsgotangco> heh
[07:39] <dholbach> on the other hand . o O { "Yo Mark, I added a python dependency to debhelper" }
[07:39] <Burgundavia> salut Treenaks, still night here
[07:39] <infinity> dholbach: Looking for a raise?
[07:39] <jamesh> dholbach: you can probably also do $blah = `echo $blah | python -c 'import sys; print sys.stdin.read().replace(...'`
[07:40] <infinity> dholbach: Hard to spend that money after Colin and I shitkick you. :)
[07:40] <dholbach> infinity: some pretty bad guys live in my area :-p
[07:40] <infinity> And I mean that in the most CoC-friendly way possible.
[07:40] <dholbach> I understood
[07:47] <jsgotangco> video?
[07:48] <neuralis> display/rendering/somesuch. this is why i'm much happier in my server cave.
[07:50] <jsgotangco> yes but cringing won't help us solve it :)
[07:51] <ajmitch> morning pitti 
[07:51] <neuralis> jsgotangco: no, but it'll make me feel better. :)
[07:51] <infinity> neuralis: It's a good cave.
[07:51] <pitti> Good morning
[07:51] <neuralis> jsgotangco: (i'm writing up the testing report as we speak.)
[07:51] <pitti> hi ajmitch!
[07:52] <neuralis> infinity: aye.
[07:53] <Burgundavia> pitti: morning. got another url for you: http://www.kdedevelopers.org/node/1899
[07:54] <pitti> Burgundavia: thanks; I've seen that yesterday, and upgrading cupsys is on my agenda
[07:54] <Burgundavia> pitti: cool. just wanted to let you know
[07:57] <jsgotangco> fabbione: since the binary won't work, we can assume all dual head issues with nvidia are hopelessly broken for now?
[07:59] <infinity> multihead on the binary driver should work fine...
[07:59] <infinity> It's only the free driver that's completely lacking that functionality.
[07:59] <infinity> (It's not broken, it's just plain not there)
[08:06] <Burgundavia> jamesh: have you noticed that ff and epiphany render the page differently? epip has much smaller text
[08:06] <jsgotangco> yeah
[08:06] <jsgotangco> it actually looks better
[08:07] <jsgotangco> infinity: the best is point to binary then?
[08:07] <infinity> In this case, yeah, there's not much else we can do, unless someone has the spare time to do multihead stuff in the free driver. :/
[08:07] <jamesh> Burgundavia: I filed https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/firefox/+bug/37828 about the problem.
[08:07] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 37828 in firefox "Text rendered incorrectly in presence of ligatures and justified text" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  
[08:07] <jamesh> Burgundavia: does epiphany use Pango text rendering?
[08:08] <Burgundavia> jamesh: no idea
[08:09] <jamesh> Burgundavia: try looking at /proc/$PID/environ to see what MOZ_DISABLE_PANGO or MOZ_ENABLE_PANGO are set to
[08:09] <jamesh> (where PID is epiphany's pid
[08:10] <fabbione> jsgotangco: ?????
[08:10] <fabbione> jsgotangco: i have dual head with the binary.. it works fine
[08:10] <fabbione> jsgotangco: it's only with the free drivers that will not work
[08:10] <jsgotangco> i meant the free one
[08:10] <jsgotangco> yeah
[08:10] <jsgotangco> i understand now
[08:19] <jamesh> Burgundavia: any luck?
[08:20] <Burgundavia> jamesh: sorry, been hacking on book. just a sec
[08:20] <jamesh> no problem
[08:21] <Burgundavia> jamesh: I don't see MOZ anything listed
[08:35] <pitti> fabbione: I approved the git-core report now
[08:37] <fabbione> pitti: thanks
[09:41] <sivang> morning all
[09:42] <Burgundavia> morning sivang
[09:43] <Pygi> mornin' sivang ;)
[09:43] <sivang> Burgundavia: Hey Corey
[09:43] <sivang> hi Pygi 
[09:56] <pitti> hi sivang 
[09:57] <drew> is it possible to make boot scripts interactive? #!/bin/bash -i doesn't seem to work...
[10:11] <seb128> mdz: around?
[10:23] <mdz> seb128: perhaps
[10:23] <seb128> hi mdz :)
[10:24] <seb128> mdz: we would like to start using the GTK icon cache for "hicolor" and "gnome", just want to get your opinion on that first
[10:24] <mdz> will that actually change any behaviour?
[10:25] <seb128> mdz: Debian doesn't use it for now because it requires to have the package to "touch icon_dir" at installation "masks the icons installed" 
[10:25] <seb128> s/installation/installation or it
[10:25] <mdz> are we using the icon cache for other things already?
[10:25] <seb128> ie: that would require to update packages installing an icon there to not get "weird effect"
[10:26] <seb128> we are using it for all the icon themes out of hicolor and gnome
[10:26] <jordi> seb128: is that what involves patching 300 packages in Debian?
[10:26] <mdz> are we using any hicolor icons in the desktop currently?
[10:26] <jordi> how many in Ubuntu?
[10:26] <seb128> since nothing else use "Human" by example we have to issue to generate the cache, it's not likely that it masks an app icon
[10:26] <jamesh> mdz: updating the cache apparently results in a 300kb saving per-process
[10:26] <seb128> hicolor is the standard fallback
[10:27] <jamesh> (per process that uses themed icons, that is)
[10:27] <mdz> oh, I thought we were falling back to tango
[10:27] <seb128> lot of apps install an icon to it
[10:27] <dholbach> jordi: 200 source packages http://daniel.holba.ch/ubuntu/usr-share-icons.list
[10:27] <jamesh> everything falls back to hicolor
[10:27] <jamesh> eventually
[10:27] <jordi> dholbach: ugh
[10:27] <seb128> Human fallbacks to Tango by Inherits, by hicolor is always used (that's the spec fallback directory)
[10:27] <mdz> seb128: it is fine with me; it is you who will need to deal with the bugs if it causes any :-)
[10:27] <seb128> dholbach counted 60 sources packages to main
[10:28] <seb128> with a cdbs snippet it should be easy
[10:28] <seb128> mdz: ok, thank you :)
[10:28] <ajmitch> dholbach: did you remember to add the dep on python? :)
[10:28] <seb128> dholbach: please wait, I want to read you dh_tool before :)
[10:28] <dholbach> haha
[10:28] <seb128> s/you/your
[10:28] <mdke> hi mdz. Any news on how the flash intro is going?
[10:28] <jordi> dholbach: can you file bugs for Debian's cdbs and debhelper? :)
[10:28] <Pygi> mdz: now my turn for questions? ^_^
[10:28] <dholbach> jordi: as soon as seb is happy, yes.
[10:29] <seb128> jordi: Josselin is strongly against using the current cache but he went the wrong way about it :/
[10:29] <mdz> mdke: it's more or less a bust due to the software stack being broken
[10:29] <mdz> Pygi: I am going to sleep in 2 minutes, what' s up?
[10:29] <mdke> mdz, oh dear.
[10:29] <jordi> seb128: I thought you went that way, last night on your blog :)
[10:29] <seb128> jordi: he sort of insulted upstream by bugzilla saying bad stuff on redhat guys doing crappy stuff their way
[10:29] <mdz> mdke: for dapper anyway; still hope to do it for +1
[10:29] <Pygi> mdz: ah, sleep tight then ^_^ Will talk some day later ^_^
[10:29] <mdke> mdz, ok! good night
[10:29] <mdz> Pygi: I am very responsive to email
[10:30] <jordi> oh man
[10:30] <mdz> good night all
[10:30] <seb128> jordi: I think I stayed correct
[10:30] <seb128> 'night mdz!
[10:30] <Pygi> mdz: no, you are not =P that's what I wanted to say =P
[10:30] <Pygi> night mdz
[10:30] <jordi> seb128: the rumour says he's french :)
[10:30] <seb128> lol
[10:30] <jordi> nite mdz
[10:30] <dholbach> good night mdz
[10:30] <mdz> Pygi: I don't have any email from you; what do you mean to say?
[10:30] <seb128> jordi: but I didn't like BenM calling that a "packaging bug" :)
[10:30] <Pygi> mdz: bah, the one about UVFe for N-M 0.6.2
[10:31] <jordi> seb128: yeah, I didn't like that blog entry either.
[10:31] <Pygi> I got the response to first mail from collin, but to my reply to that mail neither you or him responded :-/
[10:31] <mdz> colin answered you
[10:32] <Pygi> mdz: hm, yes , to first mail...but to second there were no answer :-/
[10:32] <mdz> he said the same thing I would have said
[10:32] <mdz> in colin's message he wrote "this looks OK"
[10:32] <Pygi> mdz: bah, ok
[10:33] <mdz> I appreciate your enthusiasm, but a) Colin already answered you, and b) don't expect me to respond to emails which you send to Colin
[10:33] <Pygi> I was just seeking for confirmation of that in second mail, and answering to his question anyway
[10:33] <Pygi> mdz: sent both to you and colin :)
[10:33] <mdz> To: colin, Cc: me
[10:33] <dholbach> Pygi: let mdz go to bed now :-p
[10:33] <mdz> in a conversation between you and colin
[10:33] <Pygi> mdz: ah, yes, ok, ok, sorry ;) sleep now =p
[10:34] <Pygi> dholbach: yes, yes, will do ^_^
[11:08] <infinity> Kamion: Can you remove ocaml-native-compilers on hppa?  ocaml no longer builds that binary on hppa.
[11:09] <mdke> jdub, around?
[11:13] <mdke> you know jdub said on sounder that Ubuntu was called "Ubuntu" and not "Ubuntu Linux"? That's official enough for me to go through the docs and hack out references to the latter, isn't it?
[11:14] <infinity> Quite probably.
[11:16] <infinity> mdke: AFAIK, the only time the words "Ubuntu" and "Linux" should be seen one after the other is if you're referring to "the Ubuntu Linux distribution".
[11:16] <mdke> infinity, that's confused me now :)
[11:16] <infinity> Wihch, for the sake of ambiguity, I suppose you could reword as "the Linux distribution called Ubuntu", but the passive voice never sounds good there, so I wouldn't.
[11:17] <infinity> highvoltage: That's one reason why it's not "Ubuntu Linux" either, since we can do without the silly flamewars.  The product is just "Ubuntu" and now everyone can feel equally hurt and left out.
[11:18] <highvoltage> infinity: great!
[11:18] <sabdfl> Riddell: nice april 1st desktop :-)
[11:18] <mdke> ok, I'll go and do the necessary grep+sythe out
[11:18] <Mithrandir> hmm, why is the ubuntu-drivers logo shown in my list of groups I'm in?
[11:19] <dholbach> sabdfl, Riddell: are there screenshots somewhere? :-)
[11:19] <highvoltage> sabdfl: you're part of the community council, right?
[11:19] <sabdfl> doh
[11:19] <mdke> yeah, screenshots of april fools for all those of us who use a proper desktop
[11:22] <infinity> Mithrandir: ubuntu-core-dev is a membery of ubuntu-drivers.
[11:22] <infinity> Mithrandir: member too.
[11:23] <Mithrandir> yeah, jamesh just pointed that out to me too.
[11:23] <Mithrandir> we weren't before, I think.
[11:23] <infinity> No, we weren't.
[11:23] <infinity> We certainly should be, though, since we writeand implement most of the specs. :)
[11:25] <jamesh> also, with the tightened up security only ubuntu-drivers members can change the milestone field of Ubuntu bugs
[11:25] <jamesh> so mdz cleaned up the team membership and added ubuntu-core-dev to it
[11:40] <Kamion> neuralis: espresso test reports to ubuntu-users@ if they're just raw reports, or bug reports if they're cleanly separated out per issue
[11:54] <jordi> jamesh: so
[11:55] <jamesh> jordi: yeah?
[11:56] <jordi> jamesh: if you want to investigate further, can you get the newest dejavu and see if it's still fucked like that?
[11:56] <jamesh> jordi: where abouts?
[11:56] <jordi> debian probably has it already
[11:56] <jordi> let's check
[11:57] <jordi> The current version is 2.4.1, which is an intermediate release to fix the kerning bug with Pango (LGC version is still 2.4) (What's new, Download). The next version 2.5 is scheduled for April 16th (see Roadmap). 
[11:57] <jordi> so
[11:57] <jordi> fight for a UVF exception :P
[11:58] <jamesh> jordi: okay.  I've got 2.3-0ubuntu1
[11:58] <jamesh> I'll bung a copy in ~/.fonts and see what happens
[11:58] <jordi> k
[11:59] <jordi> hrm
[11:59] <jordi> debian has 2.3
[12:00] <jordi> jamesh: Debian is currently fucked
[12:01] <Kinnison> dholbach: How's the gparted patch?
[12:01] <dholbach> Kinnison: i followed up on the bug report about it
[12:01] <dholbach> i ported it to 0.2.3 last week, but the result is still the same :-/
[12:01] <jamesh> jordi: I doubt it is the font though: I only see the problem in Firefox
[12:02] <Kinnison> dholbach: Does 0.2.3 unpatched have the issue?
[12:02] <dholbach> i'm quite sure that not, but let me double check
[12:03] <ogra> infinity, what would it take to make ltsp installable on hppa/ia64 ? 
[12:03] <jordi> jamesh: really?
[12:03] <jamesh> jordi: yeah
[12:03] <jamesh> jordi: firefox + pango + justified text
[12:08] <dholbach> Kinnison: no, the unpatched version is happy
[12:08] <Kinnison> dholbach: most bizarre
[12:08] <jamesh> jordi: no change
[12:08] <dholbach> yeah
[12:08] <jordi> jamesh: gna
[12:08] <Kinnison> dholbach: did you upload the 0.2.3 version of your package to the same place as before?
[12:08] <dholbach> yeah
[12:08] <jamesh> jordi: and I checked to make sure that firefox was mmaping the new version
[12:08] <dholbach> Kinnison: http://daniel.holba.ch/ubuntu/gparted
[12:08] <jordi> seb128: hmm. this pango kerning bug, shouldn't it be fixed by the new dejavu?
[12:08] <jordi> jamesh: right
[12:09] <carlos> pitti: ping
[12:09] <Kinnison> dholbach: excellent. I'll take a look later. I have a small flock of bugs mdz gave me to look at which will take a little while to work through
[12:09] <jordi> we should think about a new fontconfig upload, that makes bitstream vera preferred to dejavu again
[12:09] <seb128> jordi: we don't have the new 
[12:09] <seb128> jordi: but right
[12:09] <jordi> seb128: jamesh installed it in ~
[12:09] <jordi> and firefox was still missbehaving
[12:10] <jordi> also, shouldn't he have the bug all across the desktop, not only ff?
[12:10] <dholbach> Kinnison: thanks a lot - you rock!
[12:10] <seb128> jordi: http://dejavu.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php/Main_Page
[12:10] <jamesh> jordi: firefox is special
[12:10] <seb128> "The current version is 2.4.1, which is an intermediate release to fix the kerning bug with Pango (LGC version is still 2.4)"
[12:10] <jamesh> jordi: and when using justified text, I'd expect it to be sending even smaller runs to pango for rendering
[12:11] <jordi> seb128: I saw that
[12:17] <jamesh> seb128: new DejaVu doesn't help, so no need to look at updating it for this bug
[12:17] <seb128> that might be a firefox specific issue
[12:20] <jamesh> yeah
[12:21] <carlos> pitti: the mirror was not ready and thus, it was breaking my exports
[12:21] <carlos> I think that 4 extra hours is enough to get always fresh data...
[12:22] <pitti> carlos: so, shall I move my cron jobs by 4 hours?
[12:22] <carlos> pitti: yes, please
[12:23] <pitti> carlos: hm, no chance to update your mirror 4 hours earlier?
[12:23] <Kinnison> dholbach: I'm not promising I can fix it :-)
[12:23] <pitti> carlos: getting new tarballs in the afternoon is a bit inconvenient
[12:23] <dholbach> Kinnison: we share the pain... that's good enough :-)
[12:23] <carlos> pitti: I depend on a launchpad mirror, it's outside my control
[12:23] <carlos> pitti: I can do it before midnight if you prefer
[12:24] <pitti> carlos: ok, moved
[12:24] <carlos> pitti: but the data will be a bit more outdated as the db mirror will be done early in the morning...
[12:24] <pitti> oh, let's do that in the afternoon then, that's fine
[12:26] <carlos> pitti: as soon as my code is ready, we will move it into production 
[12:26] <carlos> pitti: so we will not depend on the mirror
[12:29] <heno> Mithrandir: I tested FL6; the F5 access options are still not active. Should I file a bug against it?
[12:30] <Mithrandir> heno: live or install?
[12:31] <heno> live
[12:33] <heno> Mithrandir: I guess if it was seeded it would show up here: http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/seeds/dapper/desktop right?
[12:34] <janimo> Mithrandir: do you have time today for trying to build xubuntu install iso
[12:35] <Mithrandir> heno: hmm, it should, yes.  I don't remember why we didn't just seed them.
[12:36] <Mithrandir> janimo: I think you want Kamion for that; I'm not sure how to set up a new project for cd building.
[12:36] <janimo> Mithrandir: ok. afaik the code is there
[12:36] <heno> Mithrandir: I guess we were womdering about desktop vs. live and decided on live
[12:36] <Mithrandir> heno: we were, I think
[12:36] <Mithrandir> Kamion: was there a reason for not seeding the accessibility stuff already?
[12:36] <heno> So I think that should be ready to go
[12:37] <Kamion> Mithrandir: I think I thought that ball was in your court
[12:37] <Mithrandir> Kamion: maybe I just put it in a corner and forgot.
[12:37] <heno> uh, I mean decided on 'desktop', sorry
[12:37] <Kamion> janimo: I'm trying to swap hard disks in my laptop at the moment; I'll get to you after that
[12:37] <janimo> Kamion: ok, thanks
[12:38] <heno>  :)
[12:38] <heno> *shake
[12:38] <TheMuso> Weren't we going to do a side-by-side comparrison on how big flite was compared to festival?
[12:38] <Mithrandir> TheMuso: flite is bigger
[12:38] <TheMuso> As far as I can remember anyway.
[12:38] <TheMuso> Oh ok.
[12:39] <TheMuso> That solves that one then.
[12:39] <infinity> Kamion: If you're busy out the wazoo, I can set up and test xubuntu stuff on little for janimo first thing tomorrow.  ("tomorrow" being in 12-14 hours for me)
[12:39] <Mithrandir> heno: hmm, I'm fine with desktop.  I can seed it fine.
[12:39] <Mithrandir> infinity: when's Kamion not busy? :-)
[12:39] <heno> Mithrandir: cool
[12:40] <infinity> Mithrandir: When he forgets what he's working on for a few minutes. :)
[12:40] <Kamion> infinity: it's ok, I'd rather do this one myself anyway since it's a new project
[12:40] <infinity> Kamion: Alrighty then.  I'll just do livefs stuff for him tomorrow, then.
[12:40] <TheMuso> Mithrandir: I also have some accessibility script changes for you in my casper tree. http://www.themuso.id.au/ubuntu/casper
[12:42] <ogra> infinity, did you get my question above ? 
[12:42] <infinity> ogra: Yeah.  Making it *installable* is easy.  We do the same thing Fabio did for sparc (make it depend on a package that actually exists on hppa/ia64)
[12:43] <infinity> ogra: But I'd rather see about making both install and WORK.  So I can wait.
[12:43] <infinity> ogra: s/making both/making it both/
[12:43] <ogra> infinity, are there *any* ia64/hppa clients at all ?
[12:44] <infinity> "clients"?
[12:44] <infinity> As in, support contracts?
[12:44] <infinity> Or, thin clients, you mean?
[12:44] <Mithrandir> TheMuso: mind adding a changelog entry?
[12:44] <infinity> I can't imagine many sparc ones, either.
[12:44] <ogra> nope as in ThinClients with hppa/ia64 CPU
[12:44] <Mithrandir> TheMuso: as in debian/changelog
[12:44] <ogra> sparc actually has desktop machines you could use as clients
[12:44] <TheMuso> Mithrandir: Yeah ok. Give me a few minutes.
[12:44] <infinity> ogra: But if you just mean "slow second hand computers", there's just as many slow and cheap hppa boxes as there are slow and cheap sparc boxes. :)
[12:45] <ogra> ah, k
[12:45] <infinity> (lots and lots of them, in fact)
[12:45] <ogra> making it basically installable will be the first step to get code contributions then :)
[12:45] <infinity> Not so many with ia64.
[12:46] <ogra> (i know that was fabios plan with sparc ... i didnt include the debian patches for sparc in dapper)
[12:46] <infinity> There are Debian patches for sparc support?
[12:46] <ogra> i guess there will be more from debian in dapper+1 ... some people are working on porting it
[12:47] <ogra> yes, afaik debian has some basic sparc support built in ... i havent reviewed it, since i wanted to wait for dapper+1 for the ports
[12:47] <infinity> The Debian package looks to have the same basic problem ours did.
[12:48] <infinity> There's no way to satisfy "syslinux | mknbi | mkvmlinuz | aboot" on sparc/hppa/ia64
[12:48] <ogra> so leat just add a "| elilo" (? ) to the deps
[12:48] <ogra> ah, aboot, ok
[12:48] <ogra> i'll add that ... so people can hack on it
[12:48] <infinity> Err, you already have aboot. :)
[12:48] <infinity> aboot is for ALpha SRM.
[12:48] <ogra> oh, ok 
[12:49] <Kamion> (you'll need elilo for intel macs in the longer run anyway ...)
[12:49] <infinity> You'd want palo for hppa and elilo for ia64, but I was going to skeleton in some entries in ltsp-update-kernels for those two (and silo) and upload something that at least mentioned them.
[12:50] <infinity> So, I guess I'll do that nowish.
[12:51] <infinity> I assume that we don't currently have a way to build clients on a native machine, then host them from a non-native machine?
[12:51] <nictuku> ogra, when you mentioned hwdb I though hwdata. Yes, python-sysinfo can be very helpful to hwdb, although python-sysinfo focus is inter-plataform compatibility. Eg it would list installed packages either in Debian or Fedora, and get network configuration from Linux or Windows - although it currently is only fully working on Ubuntu and Debian, though.
[12:51] <infinity> It certainly looks like right now, we expect that clientarch==serverarch.
[12:51] <ogra> Kamion, yeah, already on my list, mac minis would make awesome ltsp servers together with http://www.engadget.com/2005/10/31/jackpc-the-in-wall-thin-client/
[12:51] <hendry> anyone with exp in migrating Debian over to Ubuntu? :)
[12:52] <hendry> ogra: windows CE?
[12:53] <ogra> hendry, it has a flash disk built in ... no reason to not flash it ;)
[12:53] <infinity> ogra: No need to have elilo to use a mac mini as a server... Only as a client.  Actually, for that matter, I have no idea how to do tftp booting on an IntelMac anyway.
[12:53] <nictuku> s/plataform/platform/
[12:53] <ogra> infinity, should that be different to other arches ? 
[12:53] <ogra> i wouldnt expect it to ... once the OS runs 
[12:53] <infinity> Once the OS runs, nothing's different.  Getting it to boot is always the fun part.
[12:54] <ogra> ah, k
[12:54] <infinity> Like typical i386 and its braindead PXE thing.
[12:54] <TheMuso> Mithrandir: Anything in particular concerning the version number increment?
[12:54] <Kamion> I'm not sure anyone knows how to do Intel Mac tftp boot yet
[12:54] <infinity> Most "real UNIX arches" are a no-op for network boot configuration, since bootp+tftp is something they were all designed to do in the first place.
[12:54] <ogra> i dont expect to see intel mac thin clients around yet :) there are lots and lots of cheaper and better solutions for now
[12:54] <mjg59> infinity: Except old Suns, which want RARP
[12:54] <infinity> mjg59: Right, I remember messing with that a while back.
[12:55] <Mithrandir> TheMuso: just increase it to 1.42 and set distribution to UNRELEASED.
[12:55] <TheMuso> Ok.
[12:56] <infinity> mjg59: Though, that was on a sparc32 machine.  Are there any sparc64 boxes that require RARP to netboot?
[12:56] <ogra> infinity, elilo will be needed to build the client chroot on the server, so the dep is needed ...
[12:56] <elmo> infinity: our buildds do
[12:56] <mjg59> infinity: Ultra 1
[12:56] <mjg59> Not sure about later stuff
[12:56] <infinity> elmo: <blink>... Seriously?... I had the same class machines at my last job, and they did bootp just fine.
[12:57] <elmo> infinity: well, I was just following fabbione's instructions, but he made me install rarpd
[12:57] <elmo> I assume it wasn't just for giggles, but who knows
[12:57] <infinity> elmo: Well, mine were cheaper (V100 and V120), but I wouldn't expect the higher end stuff of the same era to be less featureful.
[12:58] <infinity> elmo: Maybe Fabio's just stuck in 1995. :)
[12:58] <infinity> mjg59: Kay, that makes sense, given that the Ultra1 was sort of the first stab at the new world order.
[12:59] <infinity> ogra: I may be a bit dense here, but why on earth would you need a bootloader to build a client chroot?
[12:59] <infinity> ogra: I've never had a bootloader installed in any NFSroot I've served.
[12:59] <infinity> ogra: Since it would be, well, useless.
[01:00] <ogra> infinity, no idea, why do i need silo or aboot ? 
[01:00] <ogra> (i didnt add either to the deps)
[01:00] <infinity> In theory, you want silo for the tilo binary (except that it doesn't currently work, afaik), which rolls multiple kernels into one uberkernel (for booting sparc32/sparc64 hardware form the same image)
[01:01] <ogra> hm, k
[01:01] <infinity> You want syslinux for the abortion that is PXE.
[01:01] <ogra> yep
[01:01] <ogra> and mkvmlinuz for ppc
[01:01] <infinity> I suspect aboot is required for similar reasons dealing with SRM being braindead.
[01:01] <infinity> Or it's a spurious dep that someone tossed in there to make it installable on alpha.  Pick one. :)
[01:02] <ogra> hmm, then intel macs should just work ... syslinux should be available there
[01:02] <ogra> i guess its the latter ... :)
[01:02] <infinity> No, cause Intel Macs don't have PXE (or bloody well shouldn't)
[01:02] <mjg59> ogra: syslinux doesn't work on intel Macs
[01:02] <infinity> So we all need to figure how the heck they boot from a network. :)
[01:02] <Kamion> it won't *work*, but the package will be there; if that's all that's needed ...
[01:02] <ogra> i didnt say it *works* (and there is no need to for cross arch ltsp)
[01:02] <ogra> it just has to be there
[01:03] <ogra> heh Kamion beats me 
[01:03] <mjg59> infinity: Oh, it's pretty straightforward
[01:03] <infinity> Anyhow, to make the server package installable, the path of least resistance is to add "| palo | elilo" to the list for hppa and ia64, yes.
[01:03] <ogra> good, will do then
[01:03] <infinity> When my hppa box lands, I need to re-examine what we actually need to do to set up bootable kernels on hppa.
[01:04] <infinity> mjg59: I'd assume it's bootp + however we netboot ia64 boxes.  I hope.
[01:04] <mjg59> infinity: No, it's more like netbooting a PPC Mac
[01:05] <fabbione> infinity: nope, sparc OBP still wants rarpd
[01:05] <fabbione> elmo: ^^
[01:05] <ogra> all i want for now for the ports arches is that something like that can work: https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuDocumentation/LTSPCrossArchSetup
[01:05] <fabbione> even the t2000
[01:05] <sladen> if the mactel's don't PXE, do they boot the way RARP+TFTP way as Mac Macs?
[01:05] <mjg59> sladen: Macs don't RARP...
[01:05] <infinity> fabbione: Whacky.  Maybe the V1[02] 0 series was made for idiots, then, cause it did bootp and loved it.
[01:05] <ogra> that requires only that the ltsp-server package is installable on the server ... nothing arch specific
[01:06] <TheMuso> Mithrandir: Do you mean .41 or .42? Just finished merging your changes and .40 appears to be the latest.
[01:06] <infinity> mjg59: Does it need a bootloader wrapper, or can it bootp a kernel and jump right into it without any messiness?
[01:06] <Mithrandir> TheMuso: hmm, pushing my latest version now
[01:06] <mjg59> infinity: No, you need to give it elilo
[01:06] <mjg59> infinity: But there's some magic in the dhcp options it needs
[01:07] <fabbione> infinity: possibly...
[01:07] <TheMuso> Mithrandir: ok.
[01:07] <Mithrandir> TheMuso: pushed
[01:07] <TheMuso> Mithrandir: Ok thanks.
[01:10] <infinity> I'd love to pick up a new mini to play with, but not on my dime.
[01:12] <sladen> fabbione: you marked that last Xv as in progress, are you doing an upload for it
[01:12] <fabbione> sladen: did I?
[01:14] <sladen> fabbione: https://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/19644  urm, Fix Released, rather than In Progress
[01:14] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 19644 in xserver-xorg-driver-i810 "Kubuntu 5.04 Konqueror crashes X server repeatably" [Major,Fix released]  
[01:15] <fabbione> 5.04
[01:15] <fabbione> i was told it is fixed in dapper -> Fix released
[01:16] <TheMuso> Mithrandir: Do I commit? When attempting to do so, a lot of files/merges are displayed which I had nothing to do with...
[01:16] <mjg59> fabbione: The bug it's marked a duplicate of is unfixed in dapper
[01:17] <fabbione> mjg59: ok..
[01:17] <fabbione> just reopen it then
[01:17] <fabbione> i might have misunderstood the infos
[01:19] <Mithrandir> TheMuso: the usual way is to start with a clean checkout, do a bzr merge, check that it looks sane, commit, do your changes, commit, push.
[01:20] <TheMuso> ok
[01:30] <sivang> infinity: so , as we talked, the ATI X1300 are virtuall unsupported for us at the moment ? (/me looks at a T60 offer ;-) )
[01:31] <infinity> sivang: Yes.
[01:31] <infinity> sivang: They're only supported as vesa cards right now.
[01:32] <doko> seb128 do you have a FC or Opensuse installation? I'm looking at opensuse and I'm wondering, why they have Bistream as standard font in gnome, but fontconfig lists Nimbus as preferred choice. The gnome font propierties just lists "Sans" / "Serif"
[01:32] <seb128> doko: nop, I don't
[01:33] <seb128> doko: how do you notice they have Bistream used?
[01:35] <doko> seb128: not sure, but it's definitely something else than the preferred Nimbus font
[01:35] <doko> (preferred by fontconfig)
[01:36] <sivang> infinity: how would you describe the amount of work needed to make it supported? :)
[01:36] <infinity> sivang: "A metric buttload"
[01:37] <infinity> sivang: However, it's not just the newer laptops and shiny 3D cards that motivate people, the new Intel Macs (which everyone is rather fond of right now) ship with these unsupported chips too, to I suspect it'll become someone's darling project pretty soon.
[01:39] <sivang> infinity: Ah, I thought it was going to be you ? :)
[01:41] <infinity> sivang: ENOHARDWARE
[01:42] <mjg59> Dave Airlie is potentially looking at it at some stage
[01:49] <infinity> airlied looks at a lot of stuff. ;)
[01:53] <sivang> infinity: ah :)
[02:10] <Mithrandir> seb128: uhm, gdmflexiserver seems to disappear if I change desktops.  Do you know of any such bugs?
[02:13] <mjg59> sabdfl: Had a chance to test the X60?
[02:16] <TheMuso> Mithrandir: http://www.themuso.id.au/ubuntu/casper - Should be good to go.
[02:18] <sivang> mjg59: could it be that it invloves implementing a complete engine stack to support that card? (I admit I am not thoroughly understanidng the terminology but this imples writing from scratch the low level hardware talking part IMU)
[02:18] <mjg59> sivang: No
[02:18] <mjg59> The 2D core actually seems to be similar to the older Radeons, but the mode setting code is different
[02:20] <Mithrandir> TheMuso: thanks
[02:20] <TheMuso> np
[02:22] <sivang> mjg59: hmm, so even to makes this work, it would need tweaking. thinkwiki reports failure with either of the drivers.
[02:27] <mjg59> sivang: The mode setting code is different
[02:27] <mjg59> Which means that the existing drivers will not work
[02:32] <netgrabber> seb128: Do you have a current (beta) gaim version for dapper?
[02:32] <zakame> hi all
[02:34] <danimo> moin
[02:34] <danimo> is there a chance for networkmanager 0.6.2 to be uploaded?
[02:34] <danimo> (to dapper)
[02:35] <mdke> danimo, yes, I believe it is planned
[02:35] <danimo> is there a place I can look at the progress?
[02:36] <mdke> danimo, I don't think so
[02:36] <mdke> there may be a wiki page
[02:40] <danimo> mdke: nope, pity
[02:42] <doko> seb128: does nautilus honor /etc/mailcap?
[02:42] <mdke> danimo, you can contact the maintainers, they'll tell you. but maybe it's just better to wait
[02:42] <danimo> mdke: right
[02:43] <torkel> danimo: or try to track the n-m bugs. I think there is a wishlist bug for upgrading to 0.6.2
[02:55] <seb128> netgrabber: no, why?
[02:55] <seb128> doko: no, it used shared-mime-info (freedesktop mime database)
[02:55] <seb128> s#used#uses
[02:56] <netgrabber> seb128: I get a lot of spam if I use the dapper version (Webaware)
[02:56] <seb128> netgrabber: that can be fixed with 1.5.0 probably
[02:57] <seb128> we should change the code to not use webaware
[02:58] <netgrabber> seb128: do you have such a patch?
[02:59] <seb128> netgrabber: no
[02:59] <seb128> netgrabber: but that's probably one line of code change
[02:59] <seb128> netgrabber: are you sure than the spam is due to webaware?
[03:00] <netgrabber> I don't know it exactly. On my notebook i have the current beta and no spam. Here on my desktop i have the dapper version.
[03:01] <giftnudel> mvo: the issue from yesterday (update-manager + sources.list) seems to be resolved ;-)
[03:04] <infinity> Kinnison: * This release should also fix: ...
[03:04] <infinity> Kinnison: The suspense is KILLING ME.
[03:05] <janimo> mvo, as per you request poking wrt update/manager gconf :). Of course if you'd rather wait with the upload until I make config read/write it's ok
[03:06] <janimo> just saw that you are in upload mode :)
[03:06] <ogra> infinity, me too !!
[03:06] <ogra> so lets wait for the next upload that finishes that sentence :)
[03:07] <Seveas> Daniel "Cliffhanger" Silverstone ;)
[03:08] <zakame> rock
[03:08] <jsgotangco> heno, ping?
[03:10] <sivang> ROTFL
[03:12] <Kinnison> infinity: arse, forgot to dd that line
[03:13] <Kinnison> infinity: I'll tell you more later
[03:30] <mvo> janimo: thanks, keep poking me. I'm (not yet) at update-manager, but it should be part of the next upload
[03:30] <janimo> mvo, thanks
[03:44] <Tm_T> weare getting reports that debtag package is causing issues
[03:46] <Tm_T> http://kubuntu.pastebin.com/637703
[03:46] <heno> jsgotangco: pong
[03:47] <Tm_T> Riddell: ping
[03:48] <Riddell> Tm_T: hmm?
[03:48] <Riddell> yeah, confirmed, fix should be buliding
[03:48] <Tm_T> ok, thanks
[03:51] <jcole> dudes
[03:52] <mdke> no dudes here
[03:53] <jcole> i've got about 4 ubuntu installs and have to do a "sudo hdparm -d /dev/hd*" (dma on) before i watch a dvd, or the dvd skips badly and my cpu goes through the roof ... just wondering if dma is defaulted to on in dapper
[03:54] <jcole> mdke: dudettes
[03:54] <sladen> jcole: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/dapper/+filebug
[03:54] <OdyX> jcole: it is.. I had to do it... but has been solved (for me)
[03:54] <jcole> sudo hdparm -d1 /dev/hd*
[03:54] <jcole> sladen: i'm not sure if that's a bug... is it off for a reason?
[03:55] <jcole> sladen: regardless, i'll file
[03:55] <OdyX> jcole: lack of material detection => bug. (because it is per default)
[03:56] <sladen> jcole: if something doesn't work out of the box, that is a bug.
[03:56] <mdke> there was a bug in the old days about dma not being turned on out of the box
[03:56] <heno> mdke: do you know who handles the ubuntu-artwork package
[03:56] <mdke> I think it is closed as WONTFIX because it is too hard to differentiate between drives that support it and those that don't
[03:56] <mdke> heno, jeff
[03:56] <infinity> (dub)
[03:56] <OdyX> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+bugs?field.searchtext=hdparm&search=Search&orderby=-priority%2C-severity
[03:56] <heno> thanks
[03:57] <mdke> jcole, have a look for that bug, and see because there's not much point filing another one if it can't be fixed
[03:57] <mdke> ah, it's marked as fixed now :) https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/linux-source-2.6.15/+bug/36185
[03:57] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 36185 in linux-source-2.6.15 "Automatically enable DMA on CD-ROMs where it is known to work" [Wishlist,Fix released]  
[03:57] <sladen> heno: seb128 or jdub
[03:58] <mdke> heno, is that for the backgrounds :) hope so
[03:58] <seb128> or dholbach
[03:58] <heno> mdke: yes
[03:58] <mdke> cool
[03:58] <seb128> dholbach so
[03:58] <jcole> mdke: cool
[03:59] <heno> mdke: I even managed to blame it on you ;) https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-art/2006-April/000947.html
[04:00] <mdke> :)
[04:00] <mdke> heno, if some don't make it into -artwork, i think an ubuntu-backgrounds package would be cool
[04:00] <heno> yep
[04:03] <seb128> mdke: you are trying to put new backgrounds on the CD?
[04:04] <mdke> seb128, I don't have access to the CD
[04:05] <seb128> you got the question probably no?
[04:05] <zul> heylo
[04:05] <seb128> let me say it different "the discussion is about putting backgrounds image to a package that is shipped on the CD?"
[04:05] <seb128> mdke: better that way?
[04:07] <mdke> seb128, I filed a bug about removing backgrounds from example-content. I suggested two alternative places the backgrounds could go. ubuntu-artwork, or ubuntu-backgrounds. heno has suggested that the backgrounds could be considered for ubuntu-artwork, and identified one specific background in particular as a candidate for inclusion as default background.
[04:08] <seb128> mdke: how many images is that?
[04:09] <mdke> seb128, i don't know. The maintainer of ubuntu-artwork can choose which images to be included, if any. I'm not trying to push images onto the CD, don't worry
[04:09] <seb128> k
[04:09] <jsgotangco> hmm its already in the cd no?
[04:09] <seb128> I'm just concerned about the number or examples and images, we will need to kick some out of the CD or kick some apps out if that keep going that way
[04:10] <jsgotangco> the bug is about just moving them to a new package?
[04:10] <jsgotangco> s/new/existing
[04:10] <mdke> jsgotangco, that's true yes
[04:10] <bddebian> Any .desktop file experts?
[04:10] <Mithrandir> jsgotangco: did you get around to testing the -server cd?
[04:10] <mdke> seb128, I'd suggest removing example-content from the install cd altogether, (leaving it on the live cd) but that's another story.
[04:10] <jsgotangco> Mithrandir, yeah -server flight 6 installed fine on my side but do you need further tests?
[04:10] <seb128> mdz: would be a good idea
[04:11] <mdke> got it
[04:11] <heno> there are currenly 11 sample wallpapers on the example part of the CD, and I'm about to remove them all. I want to suggest that one of them is moved to ubuntu-artwork
[04:11] <mdke> I'm with you. That background rocks
[04:11] <jsgotangco> the duck?
[04:11] <Mithrandir> jsgotangco: you could ask fabbione/infinity, but no, nothing I can think of immediately.
[04:11] <mdke> heh, no wp-dapper.png
[04:12] <bddebian> Does anyone know if a .desktop file should have Icon=foo instead of say Icon=foo.xpm?  My concern is how does it handle it if there is foo.xpm and foo.jpg in /usr/share/applications?
[04:12] <jsgotangco> k
[04:12] <ogra> bddebian, it prefers png, then xpm iirc
[04:12] <ogra> dunno about jpeg
[04:12] <bddebian> But Icon=foo is appropriate?
[04:13] <ogra> and i think you mean s/applications/pixmaps :)
[04:13] <ogra> should be, yes
[04:13] <bddebian> Oh yeah, pixmaps.. Heh
[04:13] <fabbione> jsgotangco: just apt-get install apache2 or something
[04:15] <ogra> woah, example content grew to 11M ? last time i looked it had only 6 ....
[04:16] <mdke> hmm. is it bad if packages grow in size suddenly, from the point of view of the cd? ubuntu-docs will get a lot bigger when it has some translations on it
[04:17] <ogra> mdke, edubuntu only has kilobytes of spare space ... dunno how the situation is on ubuntu, but not *very* much better i uess
[04:17] <ogra> *guess
[04:18] <mdke> hmm. tricky
[04:18] <janimo> mdke: will ubuntu-docs package include translations itself?
[04:18] <mdke> janimo, yes
[04:18] <janimo> so no langpacks there
[04:18] <mdke> no
[04:18] <ogra> hmm ...
[04:23] <jcole> i was in synaptic the other day and was thinking "it would be nice if i could see a screenshot of these apps"... so i decided to write a shell script to that looped through "apt-cache search ." and auto-googled 10 images for each package... after about 30 minutes, i looked at the images downloaded and found alot of cool gtk apps i didn't know about before...
[04:23] <jcole> i guess my point is "a screenshot is worth a thousand words" and was wondering if anyone has thought about something like this? something like screenshots window in synaptic (could be from google images or a screenshots database)
[04:24] <mvo> jcole: sound like it might be a fun idea for gnome-app-install. it already pre-selects on end-user applications
[04:24] <ogra> jcole, i guess it'd be rather appropriate for gnome-appinstall
[04:26] <jcole> mvo ogra: exactly
[04:26] <jsgotangco> well we started gai with the icons
[04:27] <ogra> so dapper+1 can have the shots ;)
[04:27] <jsgotangco> that's a lot of shots 
[04:27] <ogra> (if time permits)
[04:27] <jsgotangco> yeah
[04:27] <pitti> carlos: ah, pmount translations have been imported; can I remove the obsolete ones myself, or do you need to do that?
[04:28] <carlos> I need to do it..
[04:28] <mvo> well, app-install data is already pretty big (because of the icons)
[04:28] <carlos> well, I need to ask stub to do it
[04:28] <Seveas> _ion/infinity, there now exists a patch to make madwifi-ng wext-compiant which means much less pain for n-m
[04:29] <carlos> but I'm a bit overloaded atm fixing also OO translations and handling KDE imports and I forgot it... sorry :-(
[04:29] <ogra> mvo, ah, so its your fault that edubuntu always runs out of space :P
[04:29] <ogra> finally someone to blame :)
[04:29] <sivang> hehe
[04:30] <sivang> degui-spec? a new one ? :)
[04:30] <ogra> ubuntu-cli metapackage ?
[04:31] <mvo> sivang: jsut joking, there is a joke "GettingRidOfTheDesktop" spec
[04:32] <sivang> :)
[04:32] <ogra> how about a UsingPunchCardsInsteadOfHDs spec then ... would correspond very nicely to that one ;)
[04:32] <sivang> HA HA
[04:32] <sivang> ogra: Oli, stop, I'm trying to work :)
[04:33] <ogra> :)
[04:34] <jsgotangco> lol
[04:35] <ogra> or GuessingDisplayOutputByModemNoise ....
[04:35] <ogra> that would solve a *lot* of Xorg probs ...
[04:35] <sivang> heheh
[04:36] <ogra> (indeed only for modem users, the others would still have to use their monitor)
[04:36] <zakame> haha
[04:38] <ogra> pfft, no edubuntu on http://www.zegeniestudios.net/ldc/
[04:38] <jsgotangco> guys its already April 3
[04:38] <jsgotangco> :)
[04:39] <shawarma> This is probably an FAQ by now, but why is it exactly that we've told network-manager to NOT alter resolv.conf?
[04:40] <Mithrandir> shawarma: dhclient does it, if appropriate
[04:41] <mdke> Mithrandir, ping
[04:41] <mdke> oh, you're there
[04:41] <shawarma> Mithrandir: right but I've packaged the vpn plugins but they don't really work all the well without being able to tell nm to use other DNS's.
[04:41] <mdke> Mithrandir, we have a bug in that kubuntu-docs we did for breezy. the update-alternatives link points to the wrong url.
[04:43] <Mithrandir> shawarma: I get very irate when NM changes my resolv.conf and am quite happy that it doesn't touch it.
[04:43] <Mithrandir> mdke: hmm.
[04:43] <mdke> Mithrandir, i'll do you a patch
[04:44] <shawarma> Mithrandir: Besides, the default for NM is to handle resolv.conf so there must be some reason why we've explicitly told it not to.
[04:44] <Mithrandir> mdke: please do; I'm on my way out so mail it to me or file a bug with a patch
[04:44] <Mithrandir> shawarma: yes, it's that dhclient does.
[04:44] <mdke> Mithrandir, sure thing
[04:44] <shawarma> Mithrandir: Yes.... but the vpn plugins won't work.
[04:44] <Mithrandir> shawarma: they need to be fixed somehow, then.
[04:46] <shawarma> Mithrandir: I don't really think that "dhclient does it for you" is a good enough reason. Can you tell me something that will NOT work if nm handles it? 
[04:46] <Mithrandir> shawarma: my default search path, for instance.
[04:46] <jdthood> shawarma: Some time ago there was discussion of resolvconf.  Was some decision made about it?
[04:47] <Mithrandir> shawarma: this is only a problem with the vpn plugins, apparently, so they should solve it.
[04:47] <shawarma> Mithrandir: What if nm had allowed you to add certing things to your search path?
[04:47] <shawarma> *certain
[04:47] <Mithrandir> shawarma: then it would still be broken, since the search path is a global configuration thing while NMs configuration would be per-user.
[04:48] <giftnudel> cool, a complete hang of the system after upgrading to dapper ...
[04:48] <shawarma> Mithrandir: hmm.... One could argue that network configuratoin is a global thing. Nevertheless, nm handles network configuration.
[04:49] <shawarma> Mithrandir: doesn't dhclient change your search path too, btw?
[04:49] <Mithrandir> shawarma: no, since I've told it not to.
[04:49] <shawarma> Mithrandir: ah..
[04:51] <mdke> Mithrandir, patch is on bug #27906
[04:51] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 27906 in kubuntu-docs "Typo in kubuntu-docs" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/27906
[04:52] <mdke> ogra, who should I talk to about ubuntu-docs growing in size, in terms of ensuring there aren't any problems later on with the CD?
[04:52] <jcole> this is SO much better that the gnome services manager (and it shows ALL services), been using it for about a week -> http://linux.softpedia.com/progScreenshots/BUM-Boot-Up-Manager-Screenshot-4564.html
[04:55] <jcole> apt-get install bum
[04:56] <jdthood> Mithrandir: Has there been any discussion about using resolvconf together with network-manager?
[05:00] <jdthood> NM, found the answer: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NetworkMagic
[05:03] <mdke> yes, I've seen that problem too.
[05:04] <mdke> it only seems to happen on certain bugs
[05:05] <mdke> ah, when they are reported. Comments don't have the problem
[05:06] <shawarma> The "release notes" mail about network-manager from Keybuk speaks of a bunch of errors with network-manager's handling of resolv.conf as the rationale for removing this functionality.. Does anyone know if these bugs persist in the 0.6-tree of nm?
[05:09] <sabdfl> mjg59: not yet
[05:09] <sabdfl> will try get there this evening
[05:09] <sabdfl> dubious about this new wifi card
[05:11] <zakame> hi G0SUB 
[05:11] <G0SUB> zakame: hey!
[05:13] <jcole> "Error ! please contact hwdb@ubuntu.com " -> http://hwdb.ubuntu.com/?xml=vectra
[05:25] <bddebian> Am I OK uploading a change to a .desktop file just changing the icon name?  Should be an issue with strings right?
[05:27] <bddebian> Err s/should/should not/
[05:27] <seb128> bddebian: that's fine, no translation for the filename :)
[05:28] <ogra> mdke, sorry, was afk
[05:28] <mdke> np
[05:28] <ogra> mdke, i guess Kamion, Mithrandir and me know about the sizes
[05:28] <ogra> (i dont look at ubuntu normally, but they do)
[05:28] <mdke> right. I'll mail
[05:28] <ogra> jcole, how did you manage to upload such a file ? 
[05:29] <bddebian> seb128: Great, thanks.  One other quick question.  The current Icon=graveman48.png and user wants Icon=graveman.  No problem.  However, I am going to need to rename graveman48.png to graveman.png correct?
[05:29] <seb128> bddebian: correct
[05:30] <bddebian> Thank you sir
[05:33] <Riddell> Kamion: do you know how espresso-frontend-gtk gets on the kubuntu live CD?  its not in any of the seeds or germinate output (except extra)
[05:34] <Kamion> http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/liveLogs/kubuntu/latest/livecd-20060331.1-i386.out says apt is deciding to install it
[05:35] <Kamion> which is just installing kubuntu-live I think
[05:35] <Kamion> so I'm honestly not sure, I blame apt
[05:36] <Riddell> it's definatly not in kubuntu-live
[05:37] <Kamion> sure
[05:38] <Riddell> Mithrandir: any ideas?
[05:39] <Riddell> Kamion: second question, how does the .desktop file for espresso-frontend-gtk get onto the 
[05:39] <Riddell> the desktop?
[05:39] <Kamion> build a base system, apt-get install kubuntu-desktop, apt-get install kubuntu-live, you should be able to reproduce it
[05:39] <Kamion> casper/casper-bottom/10adduser
[05:40] <Kamion> there's a for loop there which can easily have kde-ui added to it as soon as you're ready
[05:41] <Mithrandir> Riddell: try changing the order of espresso and espresso-frontend-kde in the depends for -live, I think.
[05:41] <Kamion> urgh!
[05:41] <Kamion> we need to avoid that somehow, can't be depending on that
[05:42] <Mithrandir> have kubuntu live have espresso-frontend-gtk- ?
[05:42] <Kamion> you can't do that in dependencies
[05:42] <Mithrandir> hmm, true.
[05:42] <Kamion> no, this needs to not be a stupid metapackage workaround
[05:43] <Kamion> it smells like an apt bug
[05:43] <Riddell> ah, so epsresso depend on espresso-frontend which brings in espresso-frontend-gtk
[05:43] <Mithrandir> Riddell: that's my guess at least.
[05:43] <Mithrandir> ask mvo if you want a definitive answer.
[05:43] <Kamion> both espresso-frontend-gtk and espresso-frontend-kde provide espresso-frontend
[05:43] <Kamion> if espresso-frontend-kde is being installed, I don't think apt should also select espresso-frontend-gtk
[05:44] <Riddell> I can just remove espresso from the seeds and leave only espresso-frontend-kde
[05:45] <Kamion> hmm, that could be the problem though, espresso-frontend-gtk doesn't depend on espresso while espresso-frontend-kde does
[05:45] <Kamion> not sure what's correct there
[05:46] <Kamion> maybe apt feels espresso-frontend-gtk is "easier" somehow due to the lack of a circular dep
[05:47] <Kamion> Riddell: ok, I'll add that dep to espresso-frontend-gtk and you can make that seed change
[05:47] <Riddell> doing
[05:47] <Riddell> shall I make an equivalent change for the ubuntu seeds?
[05:48] <Kamion> not yet, I'll do that after my next upload
[05:51] <jsgotangco> good night
[05:51] <mdke> night
[05:59] <pitti> seb128, Kamion: freecdb has been considered dead for some time now. Any objection if I unseed it? (no reverse deps)
[05:59] <Kamion> no
[06:00] <seb128> no objection from me neither
[06:00] <pitti> alright
[06:00] <pitti> mdz asked to migrate away from it, but unseeding is the only thing to do
[06:00] <pitti> thanks
[06:00] <elmo> eh
[06:00] <elmo> dead how?
[06:00] <elmo> userdir-ldap still uses it
[06:01] <pitti> elmo: that's claimed in debian bug 338038
[06:01] <Ubugtu> Debian bug 338038 in freecdb "Subject: freecdb: does not provide a shared library" [Serious,Open]  http://bugs.debian.org/338038
[06:01] <pitti> which was imported into bugzilla
[06:01] <pitti> (bug 25202)
[06:01] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 25202 in freecdb "skkdic requires cdbmake to complete migration from freecdb" [Unknown,Unknown]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/25202
[06:02] <pitti> elmo: you mean libapache2-mod-ldap-userdir?
[06:02] <dieman> and network manager works with wpa enterprise at work, yay
[06:02] <elmo> pitti: no, userdir-ldap
[06:03] <pitti> hm, no such package here on amd64
[06:03] <elmo> pitti: the thing that powers db.debian.org and the ubuntu.com machines
[06:03] <elmo> it's not in the archive
[06:03] <pitti> ah
[06:04] <pitti> elmo: the upstream bug recommends changing to tinycdb
[06:04] <mdz> infinity: which version of make is it which broke everything in Debian?
[06:04] <pitti> elmo: anyway, I don't care much, if we need it in main, I'll leave it as it is
[06:04] <elmo> pitti: that's fine, as long as something which implements the API is available
[06:05] <elmo> and I've kind of given up on the idealistic dream of having things we run on ubuntu.com in main
[06:05] <elmo> (HI APACHE MAINTAINERS)
[06:05] <pitti> " tinycdb implements almost all API as found in cdb-0.75 written by
[06:05] <pitti>  D.J. Bernstein, so it should be source-compatible."
[06:05] <pitti> didn't test that, though
[06:05] <pitti> nor do I have any idea what it does
[06:06] <pitti> mdz: you wanted freecdb to go away in bug 25202; was that just housekeeping, or any particularly strong reason?
[06:06] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 25202 in freecdb "skkdic requires cdbmake to complete migration from freecdb" [Unknown,Unknown]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/25202
[06:07] <mdz> pitti: only the reason I gave in the bug report (it's dead upstream)
[06:07] <Mithrandir> elmo: you'll get apache 2.2 for dapper+1.
[06:07] <pitti> mdz: ok; Gerrit Pape did a recent upload, claiming that he took over upstream maintenance
[06:07] <mdz> pitti: ok
[06:07] <elmo> Mithrandir: great, you can have your DVDs served from ubuntu.com in dapper+1 too :-P
[06:08] <Mithrandir> elmo: I use rsync. :-)
[06:09] <mdke> elmo, while you're here. I was gonna ask you whether it might be possible to use an ubuntu server for the help.ubuntu.com website. We're thinking about hosting the translated documentation too for dapper (http://help.ubuntu.com/6.06/) and our server will probably not be good enough. What do you think?
[06:10] <pitti> elmo: is there a special reason gpg uses configure --with-included-gettext? it breaks langpack support
[06:10] <elmo> mdke: what software do you use/run?
[06:11] <elmo> pitti: not that I can recall
[06:11] <mdke> elmo, it's all just plain html
[06:11] <elmo> why does it break langpack support tho?
[06:11] <mdke> so apache
[06:11] <pitti> elmo: the included gettext doesn't look in /usr/share/locale-langpacks
[06:11] <elmo> mdke: how many and who has access?
[06:11] <pitti> elmo: of course I can apply the same glibc patch to the included gettext, but it could as well just use libc's gettext
[06:12] <elmo> pitti: err, I'm going to regret asking, but why /usr/sh/l-l ?
[06:12] <mdke> elmo, me and henrik have root on the server, which also houses doc.ubuntu.com (which we'd probably like to keep on that server). For help.ubuntu.com we would probably just need one user with normal access to upload the documents all in one go.
[06:12] <pitti> elmo: so that the langpacks don't conflict with unstripped or locally built debs
[06:13] <mdke> elmo, if you prefer, they can even be tarred up for you, and you can put them up, approx once every release cycle
[06:13] <elmo> mdke: if it's just plain html, that's fine, you can certainly have a server
[06:14] <elmo> mdke: send a mail to RT with all these details?
[06:14] <elmo> (well, _share_ a server. ;-)
[06:14] <mdke> elmo, absolutely. Thanks very much.
[06:14] <mdke> sure, sure
[06:14] <elmo> pitti: oh, right - anyway, feel free to fix gnupg
[06:14] <pitti> ok, thanks
[06:14] <elmo> pitti: if it works for you, I'll change debian to match ;-)
[06:26] <pitti> elmo: yep, works fine (with a small s/rm/rm -f/ fix in rules, see http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/11382)
[06:28] <elmo> pitti: err, surely, just drop the locale.alias removal altogether? but details
[06:29] <pitti> elmo: I left it in in case we'll ever experiment with the internal one again, since it doesn't hurt
[06:29] <pitti> but feel free to drop it completely, of course
[06:29] <siretart> has the update-manager tool for upgrading from breezy to dapper already been uploaded to breezy-updates, or shall testers still use http://people.ubuntu.com/~mvo/backports/update-manager/?
[06:30] <mvo> siretart: we are working on the last missing bits, currently it is still in my private repo
[06:31] <mvo> siretart: I hope we get it into the archive soon though
[06:31] <Chipzz> mvo: :)
[06:31] <siretart> mvo: we want to update a machine right now. shall we use http://people.ubuntu.com/~mvo/backports/update-manager/ for testing it?
[06:32] <mvo> siretart: yes please
[06:32] <siretart> ok. will do
[06:33] <mvo> siretart: you will need breezy-updates in your sources.list as well (for main and universe)
[06:33] <mvo> this way a updated python-apt and python-vte can make it to your system
[06:36] <bddebian> seb128: You still here?
[06:37] <mdke> JaneW, ping?
[06:37] <seb128> bddebian: pong
[06:37] <carlos> pitti: confirmed, the language pack exports are working again
[06:37] <pitti> carlos: thanks
[06:37] <carlos> pitti: when will your scripts run ?
[06:38] <bddebian> seb128: Sorry to bug you again, but I think copying graveman48.png to graveman.png wasn't the thing to do since it affects orig.tar.gz.  Should I just cp it in debian/rules to /usr/share/applications/graveman.png?  Is that more appropriate?
[06:38] <seb128> bddebian: why not just using "graveman48"?
[06:38] <ogra> bddebian, either that or uuencode it in the diff.gz
[06:38] <siretart> mvo: upgrade is ongoing :)
[06:38] <ogra> (i like cp in rules more though)
[06:38] <mvo> siretart: woah, that was quick :)
[06:39] <mvo> siretart: when it finishes, could you please send me the logs in /var/log/dist-upgrade*.log?
[06:39] <bddebian> seb128: Malone 1849
[06:39] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 1849 in graveman "Icon name" [Wishlist,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/1849
[06:40] <seb128> bddebian: I don't know about theme edition and why "graveman48" is not a valid name
[06:40] <seb128> bddebian: if you want to move it do it from debian/rules so
[06:43] <sivang> okay, time to go home and do some HUBing :)
[06:44] <fabbione> time to go home and.. hmm no.. i am home... doh!
[06:44] <bddebian> heh
[06:45] <mdke> lucky >_<
[06:45] <ogra> home is where the heart is :)
[06:45] <LaserJock> and where the laptop is ;) for me anyway
[06:45] <ogra> or wherever i lay my heat ?
[06:46] <ogra> or head ?
[06:46] <bddebian> heh
[06:46] <carlos> pitti: hmm, dapper export failed due a lock...
[06:47] <dholbach> ogra: how does one go about doing the dholbach?
[06:48] <pitti> walking the dog?
[06:48] <mdke> I thought that was doing an ogra
[06:48] <dholbach> :)
[06:49] <ogra> since i'm alone i cant push susus to do it during the week *shrug*
[06:54] <bddebian> Bah, screw this bug.. :)
[06:54] <bddebian> It's wishlist anyway 
[07:02] <sivang> fabbione: I wish I was lucky like you :-)
[07:02] <sivang> ogra: eheh
[07:02] <fabbione> sivang: sometimes i wish i had an office
[07:03] <sivang> fabbione: Let's have a small talk about it and I'll remind you why you don't :)
[07:03] <fabbione> sivang: you don't have a wife...
[07:03] <fabbione> let's talk about it :F
[07:03] <fabbione> :D
[07:03] <sivang> fabbione: hmm
[07:06] <sivang> fabbione: well, even when I'll live with my gf, she is a full time ERP intergrator , and arrives home around 6pm, and even when she's around she understands my involvment in FOSS , I hope it will stay like this when we do move in together :)
[07:08] <fabbione> sivang: the point is that when she is home from work, and you are at home at work, you will be the one spending all day in front of that damn computer, doing absolutely nothing when there is the laundry that needs to be done and food to be prepared and.. and .. and..
[07:09] <bddebian> heh
[07:13] <sivang> fabbione: right, but then again she needs to understand that you've been at work all day :)
[07:14] <sivang> fabbione: although, minor detail that physically you reside at home :)
[07:14] <fabbione> sivang: you wish :)
[07:14] <sivang> hehe
[07:48] <hunger> Did anyone use pvmove recently in dapper?
[07:48] <hunger> It keeps coredumping for me.
[08:18] <Kinnison> mdz: ping?
[08:23] <Kinnison> mdz: both 25737 and 24992 would be solved by syncing the new chicken package from debian. But it is an upstream version change.
[08:33] <Riddell> carlos, jordi: ping
[08:36] <mdz> Kinnison: usual procedure applies
[08:36] <mdz> Kinnison: it's purely a build-dep thing I think, so if stuff still builds, probably ok
[08:38] <KaiL> hmm, DVD-RAM-Support isn't THAT good, I'd say
[08:56] <janimo> Kamion, thanks for the isos
[08:57] <janimo> :)
[09:21] <dholbach> have a nice evening
[09:22] <sivang> night dholbach 
[09:22] <dholbach> bye sivang
[09:50] <dieman> KaiL: what sort of dvd-ram issue you having?
[09:51] <KaiL> dieman, Bug 37905 and bug 37907
[09:51] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 37905 in pmount "DVD-RAM shouldn't get mounted ro" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/37905
[09:51] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 37907 in gnome-volume-manager "no reaction on DVD-RAM" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/37907
[09:51] <hunger> Did anyone use pvmove recently in dapper? Keeps coredumping for me,
[09:51] <sladen> hunger: strace it and file a bug
[09:52] <tsdgeos> jordi: any update on the aspel-ca issue?
[09:52] <tsdgeos> hi btw
[09:52] <sladen> hunger: if you can remember your email address, ask for a new password
[09:53] <hunger> sladen: There is the next problem: I need to pvmove my partitions to a new disc before I can read mails again:-(
[09:55] <sladen> hunger: can you dd, or loop mount or something to get around that
[09:55] <sladen> have you tried rebooting?
[09:55] <KaiL> dieman, excapt that I can use pmount, it feels like in old days, before we had hal, dbus and so on...
[09:56] <hunger> sladen: dd is not really an option since the new disc is bigger than the old one. Rebooting does not fix the issue (if it did then I'd run and get a new OS;-)
[09:56] <dieman> KaiL: hrm, i dont see 37907 on my system
[09:56] <dieman> KaiL: you may want to add what type of hardware you are using, too
[09:56] <dieman> KaiL: i knew about 37905
[09:57] <KaiL> hmm, you don't see 37907...
[09:57] <dieman> i had reported it in the past i thought
[09:57] <KaiL> hmm
[09:57] <hunger> sladen: I'll find a solution... maybe I'll use a non-ubuntu disc to move stuff.
[09:57] <dieman> trying to find my old bug here
[09:57] <KaiL> let's see, if something filled gvm...
[09:57] <KaiL> eh killed
[09:58] <KaiL> nop, normal CD works
[09:58] <KaiL> uhm...
[09:58] <KaiL> worked..?
[09:58] <dieman> weird
[09:58] <dieman> who makes your drive?
[09:58] <KaiL> where on earth is the icon?!?!?
[09:58] <KaiL> LG
[09:58] <dieman> hrm
[09:58] <dieman> ive got an LG also and it mounts automatically
[09:58] <dieman> but that machine is running breezy
[09:58] <KaiL> WTF? The icon is missing :/
[09:59] <KaiL> ..for a CD
[10:00] <dieman> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-bugs/2004-October/012483.html
[10:00] <dieman> bwhaha
[10:01] <dieman> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/partman-target/+bug/8970
[10:01] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 8970 in partman-target "cdrom is set to ro by default, breaks dvd-ram users" [Wishlist,Rejected]  
[10:01] <dieman> which is a dupe of
[10:01] <dieman> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/partman-target/+bug/18057
[10:01] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 18057 in partman-target "UDF formatted CD is mounted read-only" [Normal,Fix released]  
[10:01] <dieman> which was supposedlyf ixed in partman-target 36ubuntu2
[10:02] <KaiL> ah, ok
[10:03] <KaiL> and because my fstab is still from <ancient>, this still sits there...
[10:03] <dieman> yah
[10:03] <dieman> that too
[10:03] <KaiL> let's see, what a real dapper system says here....
[10:03] <dieman> you probally need to take ro out of your fstab
[10:03] <jordi> tsdgeos: yes, I'm working on a update which will fix everything.
[10:04] <jordi> tsdgeos: I guess I'll have it in two days or so
[10:05] <KaiL> dieman, and as the other problem not only hits DVD-RAM here, something seams to have crashed :/
[10:15] <carlos> Riddell: pong
[10:15] <carlos> not sure if jordi answered already...
[10:16] <Riddell> carlos: he didn't, able to join us in #kubuntu-devel ?
[10:16] <carlos> sure
[10:31] <Pygi> mdz: sorry about the mixup and all :-/
[10:32] <mdz> Pygi: was your intention to ask for a freeze exception, or were you asking whether someone would do the work of updating the package?
[10:33] <Pygi> mdz: nah, I was asking for freeze expection...me and _ion intented to make patches, and then talk to Keybuk & infinity about uploading
[10:33] <mdz> ok
[10:34] <mdz> fabbione: are you making some progress on the X bug list?  I have been mostly leaving those alone in my sweep, with the expectation that you are working on that list
[10:35] <ogra> mdz, do you suggest that switching the app justifies closing the bug (i.e. bug 28758) ? it still exists in xss i guess ...
[10:35] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 28758 in xscreensaver "Dapper freezes on rhythmbox notification bubble when (openGL)screensaver is active" [Normal,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/28758
[10:35] <fabbione> mdz: i did go trough the requestes you left me in malone today, but i had to do some work on cluster stuff today as well
[10:36] <mdz> ogra: feel free to downgrade it instead
[10:36] <mdz> fabbione: there is a big backlog of X bugs which haven't been looked at by anyone; I am going through all of the other bugs but if you could deal with the unconfirmed X bugs that would be a great help
[10:37] <ogra> mdz, no, i'm fine and will wait for someone to repoen if needed, i was just asking about our general attitude 
[10:37] <ogra> s/asking/curious/
[10:38] <fabbione> mdz: yes i know.
[10:38] <fabbione> mz
[10:39] <fabbione> mdz: i also need to keep into account -server/-cluster in my daily work..
[10:39] <fabbione> they aren't finished yet
[10:39] <mdz> ogra: I would consider the bug to be low-impact since we are using gnome-screensaver now; of course, Xubuntu is probably still using xscreensaver, but they can open their own task if they want to ;-)
[10:39] <ogra> oki :)
[10:40] <siretart> mdz: I see that you assigned bug #27983 to me. I outlined what would needed to be done there. do you think we should do this transition? if yes, I'd rather start sooner than later..
[10:40] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 27983 in openal libopenal0 "libopenal0: openal changed API without adjusting versioning" [Unknown,Unknown]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/27983
[10:40] <mdz> fabbione: what is on your todo list for clusters?
[10:40] <mdz> siretart: I received your email; I'm just trying to get caught up on bugs right now
[10:40] <mdz> I have another 1300 bugs to review
[10:40] <fabbione> mdz: get clvm tested and in main on sabdfl input/request.
[10:40] <fabbione> mdz: that opened literally a can of worms
[10:41] <fabbione> that's good tho
[10:41] <siretart> ah, ok. sry then..
[10:41] <ogra> fabbione, we should look into ati vs radeo detection, i had a buch of GL screensaver bugs that were solved by changing ati to radeon in xorg.conf ... 
[10:41] <fabbione> but there is stuff that needs fixing and testing
[10:41] <fabbione> ogra: welcome to send me a patch :)
[10:41] <fabbione> ogra: i am not jalous of X
[10:41] <ogra> i know ...
[10:41] <ogra> nobody is :)
[10:41] <LaserJock> darn, mvo killed my pbuilder how to in the Packaging Guide ;-)
[10:41] <ogra> i'll look into this particular issue ...
[10:41] <fabbione> ogra: solution is to fix it in discover1-data to return the proper driver and make sure xorg doesn't override
[10:42] <mdz> fabbione: was I CCed on that conversation?  I don't remember clvm
[10:42] <fabbione> ogra: or ask benh to actually make it working
[10:42] <fabbione> mdz: i don't think so
[10:42] <ogra> is our discover1-data even up to date ? 
[10:42] <fabbione> ogra: yes
[10:42] <ogra> i know daniels always care dfor it
[10:42] <ogra> ok
[10:43] <mdz> fabbione: please forward me the thread
[10:43] <fabbione> mdz: yes i was searching for it
[10:44] <lamont> Diziet: re 33895 - I'll check that soonish
[10:45] <fabbione> mdz: you were acutally in the To:
[10:45] <jordi> answered what?
[10:45] <fabbione> well you got it twice
[10:46] <zul_> wq
[10:46] <mdz> fabbione: the only thing I saw in that message was a question "is it something that makes sense to have in main?"
[10:47] <mdz> was there a later message?
[10:47] <fabbione> my answer to it?
[10:47] <ogra> zul_, you missed the colon
[10:47] <mdz> yes, you said it was a nice to have
[10:47] <zul_> ogra: yeah...my click to focus sucketh..
[10:47] <fabbione> yes and that it required some investigation
[10:47] <fabbione> so i started investigating and found:
[10:47] <fabbione> - multipath-tools is broken
[10:47] <fabbione> - lpfc kernel driver is broken and i fixed it
[10:48] <fabbione> - e1000 kernel driver is broken and i fixed it
[10:48] <fabbione> - clvm requires working cman and found out that it is partially broken and i am fixing it
[10:48] <fabbione> together with the bugs i am fixing while i do this...
[10:49] <fabbione> do/did since it's still going on
[10:49] <KaiL> what on earth is an nVidia Geforce 6700 XL?
[10:49] <KaiL> at least dapper seams to fail on it..
[10:56] <dieman> grmbl, found a awful horrible networkmanager bug
[10:56] <dieman> must fix
[10:59] <dieman>         nm_gconf_wso_set_key (NM_GCONF_WSO (security), "FIXME", 5);     /* FIXME: What to do about Enterprise keys? */
[11:00] <dieman> woo!
[11:16] <Pygi> dieman: if it works (the patch),please file a bug,and attach patch? ^_^
[11:16] <dieman> yah
[11:16] <dieman> bug is filed
[11:16] <dieman> bug #37924
[11:16] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 37924 in network-manager network-manager-gnome "gnome applet loses wpa enterprise configuration" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/37924
[11:16] <Pygi> is that 0.6.2?
[11:16] <hunger> Arg! My box no longer boots!
[11:16] <dieman> bah
[11:16] <hunger> I hope it is the LVM timeout issue again.
[11:16] <Pygi> dieman: hm?
[11:17] <dieman> Pygi: is .6.2 out?
[11:17] <dieman> my mirror must be out of date
[11:17] <dieman> yah
[11:17] <dieman> your right
[11:17] <dieman> shoot
[11:17] <Pygi> dieaman: yes, it is...you need to use master server (archive.ubuntu.com)
[11:17] <Pygi> not any mirrors :P
[11:17] <fabbione> night guys
[11:17] <fabbione> cya in a few hours
[11:17] <dieman> well, i maintain this mirror and its updated fairly often, but not often enough to catch some things ;)
[11:18] <dieman> i'll check the newer sources to see if its in there
[11:19] <dieman> its just a pain to use archive.u.c sometimes 'cause its slower than the local mirror :)
[11:19] <dieman> yeah, its fixed there
[11:20] <Pygi> fabbione: night
[11:20] <Pygi> dieaman: yes, I know that ;)
[11:20] <dieman> heh
[11:20] <Pygi> dieaman: update every 10 seconds? :)
[11:20] <dieman> every few hours, but should have checked the list in launchpad first for new versions
[11:21] <Pygi> dieman: ah, right
[11:21] <dieman> thanks, anyhow
[11:21] <dieman> i'm really happy its working for the most part
[11:22] <dieman> it will remove another one of those awkward moments with users
[11:22] <dieman> 'oh, and your wireless configuration, just edit this file!'
[11:22] <Pygi> =P
[11:22] <Pygi> a lot more work needs to be done :-
[11:22] <Pygi> :--
[11:22] <Pygi> :-/
[11:32] <dieman> Pygi: yeah, but its working for the most part right now
[11:32] <Pygi> dieman: look up how many bugs =P
[11:32] <dieman> yah
[11:33] <dieman> i saw em
[11:33] <dieman> its *hard* to get it to work with all drivers
[11:33] <dieman> i've only had the opportunity to test it with intel cards for the most part
[11:42] <sivang> night all!
[11:43] <Pygi> night sivang
[11:51] <Seveas> Pygi, have ou seen my memo?
[12:01] <jmg> !seen sabdfl