[03:33] <nictuku> I wonder if it is ok to ask someone else to review my profile and, obviously unofficially, see if my contributions are enough to support my ubuntu membership application... ?!
[09:26] <highvoltage> @schedule
[09:26] <Ubugtu> schedule Retrieve the date/time of scheduled meetings in a specific timezone
[09:26] <highvoltage> @schedule UTC
[09:26] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 03 Apr 09:00: Community Council | 05 Apr 12:00: Edubuntu | 05 Apr 14:00: Xubuntu | 06 Apr 08:00: Dapper Development Status | 11 Apr 20:00: Technical Board | 12 Apr 12:00: Edubuntu
[09:27] <DanielFaulknor> @schedule NZT
[09:27] <DanielFaulknor> @schedule NZ
[09:27] <Ubugtu> Schedule for NZ: 03 Apr 21:00: Community Council | 06 Apr 00:00: Edubuntu | 06 Apr 02:00: Xubuntu | 06 Apr 20:00: Dapper Development Status | 12 Apr 08:00: Technical Board | 13 Apr 00:00: Edubuntu
[09:33] <juliux> @schedule MEZ
[09:33] <juliux> @schedule berlin
[09:33] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Berlin: 03 Apr 11:00: Community Council | 05 Apr 14:00: Edubuntu | 05 Apr 16:00: Xubuntu | 06 Apr 10:00: Dapper Development Status | 11 Apr 22:00: Technical Board | 12 Apr 14:00: Edubuntu
[10:27] <DecIRC>  /msg nickserv set unfiltered on
[10:27] <DecIRC> oops, sorry, 
[10:30] <highvoltage> good thing that wasn't nickerv identify :)
[10:30] <nictuku> hehe
[10:31] <bstqc_ostl> Has CC meeting begin?
[10:31] <nictuku> no
[10:31] <bstqc_ostl> Will it begin after 30 minutes?
[10:31] <juliux> yes
[10:32] <bstqc_ostl> nictuku,juliux:thanks!
[10:47] <Cassidy> DecIRC: ping ?
[10:49] <DecIRC> Cassidy, sorry, was in another room (in real life)
[10:50] <Cassidy> DecIRC: pv
[11:00] <Seveas> Kamion, any sign of the rest of the CC yet?
[11:00] <highvoltage> not as far as i'm aware
[11:01] <ploum> Hello DecIRC and all belgians :-)
[11:01] <Cassidy> hi ploum !
[11:01] <DecIRC> Hello ploum and everybody. 
[11:02] <bstqc_ostl> hello,everyone!I am Victor.
[11:02] <highvoltage> hi Victor.
[11:02] <lifeless> Hi Victor, I'm robert, and I'm a code junkie
[11:02] <Seveas> c'est un ploum - run while you can
[11:02] <bstqc_ostl> hi:highvoltage,Hi,lifeless
[11:03] <ploum> Seveas: hehe ;-)
[11:03] <nictuku> hi all :-)
[11:03] <bstqc_ostl> nice to meet you all :-)
[11:03] <dholbach> hi bstqc_ostl :-)
[11:04] <nictuku> my friends seems to be sleeping. I wonder if I should remove my name from the agenda hehe
[11:04] <akulah> hello!
[11:04] <akulah> all
[11:04] <bstqc_ostl> hi,dholback.I have waiting for this moment for a long time!
[11:04] <dholbach> bstqc_ostl: I know. I just hope the Community Council turns up soon.
[11:05] <thesaltydog> ciao dholbach !
[11:05] <lifeless> piongs are progressing
[11:07] <lifeless> Kamion: are you trying to reach anyone ?
[11:08] <imtheface> hi all
[11:09] <nictuku> hi imtheface!
[11:09] <zakame> hi all
[11:09] <highvoltage> hi zakame 
[11:10] <zakame> hello highvoltage 
[11:10] <Seveas> (I am at a lecture right now and am the TA - so I may be unresponsive at times)
[11:12] <lifeless> I'm betting they are confused because of TZ change last weekend. Or something.
[11:13] <nictuku> or maybe because traditionally the meetings are on tuesdays
[11:16] <DanielFaulknor> how many people are missing?
[11:19] <Kamion> shit, sorry, I slept in
[11:19] <highvoltage> shouldn't sabdfl be here? i see he's in -devel.
[11:19] <lifeless> Kamion: you're the only one here so far :{
[11:19] <Seveaz> mornin' Kamion
[11:19] <sabdfl> sorry all
[11:19] <Seveas> mornin' mark
[11:20] <highvoltage> morning sabdfl :)
[11:20] <sabdfl> morning
[11:20] <lifeless> morning
[11:20] <zakame> hello sabdfl 
[11:20] <ploum> 'morning ... 
[11:21] <imtheface> afternoon here! :)
[11:21] <sabdfl> where are we on the agenda?
[11:21] <Kamion> we aren't
[11:21] <DecIRC> good morning sabdfl 
[11:21] <sabdfl> hi kamion, do we have quorum?
[11:21] <lifeless> you have 2 so far
[11:21] <Kamion> sabdfl: you and me so far
[11:21] <lifeless> claire is phoning elmo
[11:21] <sabdfl> elmo's on EST
[11:21] <bstqc_ostl> hello,sabdfl
[11:21] <Kamion> elmo said last time he'd get up if he needed to
[11:22] <sabdfl> he's getting up
[11:22] <Seveas> claire is waking the beast ;)
[11:23] <sabdfl> morning
[11:23] <sabdfl> Kamion: do you want to put the quorum idea forward as a suggestion?
[11:24] <Kamion> the TB consider == 50% to be quorum, whereas we require > 50%
[11:25] <Kamion> perhaps we should move into sync with them for smaller issues so that we don't have so many quorum problems
[11:25] <sabdfl> that's fine by me with CC for memebrships, loco, issues that don't involve a change of policy
[11:25] <sabdfl> elmo?
[11:26] <elmo> umm, I'm not thrilled by the idea - I mean, have we actually cancelled more than one meeting because of quorum issues?
[11:26] <sabdfl> not that i'm aware. seveas?
[11:26] <Seveas> no, but the decisions were delayed
[11:27] <Seveas> there always have been 3 out of 4 votes
[11:27] <elmo> I realise the whole last minute phoning to get quorum thing is less than ideal, but OTOH, I think things like membership sometimes benefit from a wider coverage of CC staff
[11:27] <elmo> IMHO
[11:27] <Seveas> one exception: when a few community members got to vote since sabdfl had to leave
[11:28] <elmo> so, err like, -0.5 from me or something
[11:28] <Seveas> Maybe having an extra CC member will help
[11:28] <Seveas> then 3 out of 5 should be around instead of 3 out of 4
[11:29] <sabdfl> agreed
[11:29] <Kamion> we have had to process memberships and wait for a third member to ack them later, a few times
[11:29] <Kamion> I take elmo's point though
[11:29] <sabdfl> we might grow an AsiaPac council member to help with timezones too, right now we cover americas and europe well
[11:30] <sabdfl> will take that under consideration
[11:30] <Seveas> with my sleeping rhythm I cover all timezones ;)
[11:30] <sabdfl> let's hold off on the quorum == 50% thing for now
[11:30] <sabdfl> and get started on today's agenda
[11:31] <sabdfl> highvoltage: you behind the edubuntu loco idea?
[11:31] <sabdfl> want to tell us a bit about it?
[11:31] <highvoltage> sabdfl: yes
[11:31] <highvoltage> thank you
[11:31] <highvoltage> Hi Ubuntu Community Council
[11:31] <highvoltage> I don't expect a final answer on this now, but I would certainly appreciate your input on this.
[11:31] <highvoltage> We have received a request from an Italian community member (Andrea Veri) to start an Edubuntu loco team.
[11:32] <highvoltage> He's already quite active, especially with regards to Edubuntu Advocacy in his surrounding areas, speaking to different schools about the benefits of Edubuntu in schools.
[11:32] <highvoltage> We don't currently have Edubuntu loco teams, and we're wondering if it's wise to split loco teams into Edubuntu and Ubuntu loco teams, since Italy already has a loco team.
[11:32] <highvoltage> There are good reasons, imo, ot have a seperate team, and to keep it as one group.
[11:32] <highvoltage> What it comes down to, is, having split groups will mean that theres overlap in goals, and possible duplication of work. On the other side, I can understand why someone would want an Edubuntu specific team, that focusses on schools and their needs specifically.
[11:32] <highvoltage> The best solution for this I could think of, is to have them seperate, but still integrated.
[11:32] <highvoltage> So you might have an Edubuntu loco in your country, but it is still part of the bigger loco team. And perhaps there should be some policy to say that the bigger loco should accept the smaller interest-specific groups into the bigger team.
[11:32] <highvoltage> Those are just the lines I thought along, but we would just like to see what's best for the Edubuntu community. Any thoughts on this from CC?
[11:33] <Seveas> How about an edubuntu subteam in the existing locoteam, just like the edubuntu team is a subteam of Ubuntu ?
[11:33] <sabdfl> the advantage is - folks get to focus on the thing they are passionate about
[11:33] <sabdfl> edubuntu may diverge in future, if it gets sufficient mass and theres a need to do so
[11:33] <highvoltage> yep
[11:34] <sabdfl> the disadvantage is there is an opportunity for unhealthy rivalry
[11:34] <highvoltage> some people are very specific in what they'd like to do with schools, and some people more specifically, have a bigger educational focus
[11:34] <elmo> with the increasing number of derivatives, I worry about scalability problems with entirely separate groups - I'd prefer we try subgroups or other solutions in the first instance until we come up with a clear need/use case for entirely separate groups?
[11:34] <sabdfl> say, for example, two guys in a loco team don't get on, one goes off to start the "edubuntu" loco team, but in reality it's just an excuse to demarcate turf
[11:35] <sabdfl> we already do have multiple overlapping loco teams, like country teams and city teams
[11:35] <sabdfl> so i don't actually have a problem with this at all
[11:35] <sabdfl> unless its abused to fuel factionism
[11:35] <highvoltage> perhaps there should be some kind of policy for loco teams, that they have to work together with other, more specific loco teams, at least to a degree (and where there's overlap)
[11:35] <Seveas> sabdfl, indeed. If the teams cooperate, any structure will do.
[11:37] <highvoltage>  if this is the way to go (having an edubuntu loco), should the edubuntu loco team go through the same approval process as an ubuntu loco team?
[11:37] <sabdfl> how about we say yes, and see what happens? i expect we will have kubuntu loco teams soon too
[11:37] <sabdfl> highvoltage: yes, definitely
[11:37] <highvoltage> great.
[11:38] <highvoltage> is CC okay that we do this? we can add the Italian loco team to the list for the next CC meeting then?
[11:38] <sabdfl> elmo: w.r.t. use cases, we do have some guys wanting a team focused on edubuntu already
[11:38] <sabdfl> we should have some sort of "principle of least interference"
[11:39] <sabdfl> which suggests that, unless we have a CoC type issue, community members who want to organise in a particular way should get the freedom to try it
[11:39] <lifeless> Ubuntu's Prime Directive ?
[11:40] <sabdfl> unless its because of social problems, in which case we need to climb in and resolve those
[11:40] <sabdfl> (i.e. the forum forking discussion)
[11:40] <elmo> *shrug*
[11:40] <elmo> ok
[11:40] <Seveas> lifeless, ubuntu's prime directive is the CoC
[11:41] <lifeless> Seveas: I was being humourous, sorry.
[11:41] <Kamion> I have the same scalability issues as elmo for the record; Edubuntu does seem to have a good use case for being separate, but I can't see a good use case for Kubuntu in the same way
[11:41] <highvoltage> lifeless: and that counts for edubuntu, kubuntu, and xubuntu as well
[11:41] <lifeless> Seveas: 'principle of non interference'
[11:41] <Kamion> in that Edubuntu is going out and talking to a very very different set of people
[11:41] <highvoltage> Kamion: i agree with you there.
[11:41] <Kamion> whereas Kubuntu is just "people who like KDE", which is a whole lot more nebulous
[11:41] <Kamion> likewise Xubuntu
[11:42] <zakame> hmm increasing granularity
[11:42] <sabdfl> people do get quite passionate about the whole kde / gnome thing, though :-)
[11:42] <highvoltage> kubuntu, xubuntu and ubuntu are really pretty much the same in terms of users, target market, etc. while edubuntu has some very distinct differences there.
[11:42] <sabdfl> i think people will generally be more energetic if they feel they can associate with the parts of the "ubuntu project" which most closely aligns with their own interests
[11:43] <Seveas> sabdfl, definitely
[11:43] <elmo> sabdfl: right, but unless the teams cooperate, there's going to be a lot of duplicated/wasted effort
[11:43] <elmo> (but OTOH, I get your non-interference thing, so I'm just saying)
[11:43] <elmo> I mean there's a reason ubuntu, kubuntu, xubuntu etc. all share the same archive
[11:43] <highvoltage> elmo: couldn't that be fixed on policy level, so that teams know they're not supposed to "compete"?
[11:44] <sabdfl> elmo: how about we make it clear that we are all in this together and specialisation is not the same as competition?
[11:44] <Seveas> sabdfl, sounds like a nice amendment for the CoC
[11:44] <sabdfl> i think having a strong edubuntu team in a city is a big help to the ubuntu loco team, for example
[11:44] <elmo> sure, that'd be good
[11:45] <sabdfl> as long as they don't compete and trashtalk one another
[11:45] <highvoltage> members who do that should be dismissed, imho
[11:45] <sabdfl> i can think of one bad scenario, say, where a school district wants to deploy ubuntu, and is looking for contractors, and members of those teams start competing for the work
[11:46] <sabdfl> talking down ubuntu / edubuntu as a proxy for competing for the funding
[11:46] <thesaltydog> one solution could be to consider edubuntu loco a branch of the ubuntu LoCoTeam..
[11:46] <sabdfl> could equally well happen with kubuntu
[11:46] <highvoltage> sabdfl: an answer to that might be, that they should start another team for commercial work, and that the loco group is for community work. or does that go against how things are currently set up?
[11:47] <sabdfl> ultimately, it's the underlying people and how they feel that matter
[11:47] <sabdfl> let's deal with those sorts of issues when they arise, and just resolve to say we expect the highest standard of collaboration between all ubuntu loco teams, regardless of their particular focus, whether its regional, or vertical
[11:48] <sabdfl> is there an obvious loco team guidelines page we could amend to that effect?
[11:48] <highvoltage> that sounds good. could almost be copied and pasted in CoC just as you wrote it there :)
[11:48] <Seveas> sabdfl, LocoTeamRunning perhaps
[11:49] <Kamion> urk, hope we don't have to amend the CoC again. :)
[11:50] <highvoltage> there's https://wiki.edubuntu.org/LoCoTeamHowto and https://wiki.edubuntu.org/LoCoTeams, which might benefit from the ammendment
[11:50] <Seveas> Kamion, in that case: skip 1.0.1 and jump to 1.1 immediately with these amendments 
[11:50] <elmo> Kamion: oh, I can fix that
[11:50] <Kamion> I sent a copy to launchpad@ a while ago if you want to fish it out of there
[11:51] <lifeless> Kamion: doh. I forgot there was a 1.0.1, I've still only signed 1.0.
[11:51] <elmo> yeah, I still have it ticked in my launchpad mail folder in case it got lost
[11:51] <Kamion> lifeless: it's just typographical corrections, don't worry about it
[11:51] <lifeless> Kamion: ok.
[11:52] <Kamion> ok, are we done with this agenda point?
[11:52] <Kamion> if so, let's move on to the Belgian locoteam
[11:53] <ploum> Hello :-)
[11:53] <highvoltage> from my side, I'm okay with it. I will ask Andrea to add the edubuntu-loco-it team agenda item to the next CC meeting.
[11:53] <ploum> (ok belgians, let's go to sing our song !)
[11:53] <Cassidy> hi :)
[11:53] <Cassidy> ploum: the one about bear and frites ?
[11:53] <DecIRC> hi
[11:53] <Cassidy> beer ;)
[11:53] <Seveas> hello belgian team
[11:53] <JanC> hi
[11:54] <sabdfl> hey guys
[11:54] <ploum> So we are a small country with many differents languages
[11:54] <ploum> But a big team :-)
[11:54] <ploum> We have worked on a Ubuntu-be guideline for quite some weeks : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BelgianTeam
[11:55] <ploum> Then we had a meeting at FOSDEM (with jdub)
[11:55] <ploum> We want to promote Ubuntu locally, not to create yet another forum-wiki-support website
[11:56] <ploum> Our first big goal is a very commercial looking website for the Dapper release and a Dapper party where we will invite the community and the press
[11:57] <ploum> ATM, we have a mailing list with 69 members, and we are speaking a mix of french-dutch-english all the time
[11:58] <ploum> In fact, we also have the secret goal to show that Belgian people can still do thing together, regardless of their language
[11:58] <ploum> (this is a big problem in Belgium)
[11:58] <elmo> (ploum: btw, it's not relevant to this process, but I saw some (less than constructive) criticism of the Dutch in your ubuntu-be announce post - you might want to get a native speaker to look over any future multi-lingual posts?)
[11:59] <Kamion> (ok, in fact I do need to take my laptop down for disassembly now. I'll still be following along, just a little more slowly
[11:59] <Kamion> )
[12:00] <ploum> elmo: ?  I don't remember that
[12:00] <sabdfl> ok, thanks ploum
[12:00] <JanC> elmo: you mean on ubunu-announce ?
[12:00] <sabdfl> anything we can do to help out at this stage?
[12:00] <ploum> sabdfl: yes
[12:00] <sabdfl> go ahead
[12:00] <ploum> In order to work on the website and promotionnal flyer, we want to be sure we can use ubuntu-be.org
[12:00] <ploum> http://ubuntu.carolinux.be/ : the first draft of the website we are working on (content is mostly in french I think)
[12:02] <Seveas> quite empty draft ;)
[12:03] <ploum> Seveas: yes, we have not yet putted the content in the website..
[12:03] <jsgotangco> heh
[12:03] <sabdfl> i've no problem with ubuntu-be.org. 
[12:03] <ploum> and we have to translate all
[12:03] <DecIRC> Seveas, it is less empty if you choose "Je parle Franais" in place of "I speak English"
[12:03] <sabdfl> ploum: probably best to be conservative with the number of pages, since everything has to happen three times
[12:03] <Seveas> you can pull dutch translations from ubuntu-nl.org ;)
[12:04] <ploum> sabdfl: that's indeed our goal. (and people don't read much more thant 4 pages anyway)
[12:04] <sabdfl> elmo: what's the process for pointing an ubuntu-xx.org domain at a loco server?
[12:04] <JanC> I will look at the translations in Dutch  ;-)
[12:04] <elmo> sabdfl: it's still managed by smurfix
[12:04] <elmo> well the DNS
[12:04] <elmo> the loco servers are done by heno
[12:04] <sabdfl> ok, ploum, ask smurfix to point at your server, and off you go
[12:04] <elmo> err, kind of
[12:05] <sabdfl> anything else, or can we get to the members?
[12:05] <ploum> thanks sabdfl :-)
[12:05] <DecIRC> dears, I'm the technical responsible for the hosting of this site on my dedicated server. So you can either point the A record to the ip of the server of define it as primary dns
[12:05] <sabdfl> DecIRC: chat with smurfix
[12:05] <ploum> sabdfl: thanks for your time. 
[12:05] <sabdfl> ok, members, members, members!
[12:06] <Cassidy> thanks for your support guys !
[12:06] <dholbach> hahaha :)
[12:06] <lifeless> throw a chair!
[12:06] <DecIRC> sabdfl, and others, thanks for ... everything :)
[12:06] <sabdfl> yer welcome
[12:06] <sabdfl> lifeless: you're up
[12:06] <lifeless> hiya
[12:06] <JanC> lifeless: throwing chairs at people is against the CoC  ;)
[12:06] <elmo> -2
[12:07] <lifeless> so, I'd like to become a MOTU
[12:07] <elmo> oh wait, is it not time to vote for lifeless yet? ;-)
[12:07] <lifeless> elmo: thanks!
[12:07] <Simira> haha, isn't lifeless a member yet?
[12:07] <highvoltage> JanC: unless it's a chaire made out of cake!
[12:07] <lifeless> I've setup all the wiki pages and documentation the newmembers process requests
[12:07] <lifeless> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RobertCollins
[12:08] <lifeless> and I've been hanging out and helping in #ubuntu-motu from nearly when it started
[12:09] <ajmitch> & he's been quite helpful there too 
[12:09] <lifeless> sorry for the lag there, finding my description  to paste
[12:09] <lifeless> I work for Canonical coordinating the combination of Bazaar-NG and Launchpad (which we hope will provide a fantastic feedback loop to any community using Bazaar-NG), and am a Quality-Czar - I rove between Bazaar-NG, Launchpad and Ubuntu providing input (and Code!), aiming to make it easier to make high quality creations across all our efforts.
[12:09] <sivang> sabdfl: ah ah ah!
[12:09] <sabdfl> lifeless: do you think your testing stuff will land in the distro, or be more LP-ish?
[12:09] <lifeless> sabdfl: I want to do some work on the deb testing project
[12:09] <sabdfl> ok
[12:09] <lifeless> I think its very under-potential at the moment
[12:10] <sabdfl> can you point to some ubuntu-specific contributions you've made over the past year or two?
[12:10] <sivang> lifeless: referring to automating testing framework by Ian?
[12:10] <lifeless> sivang: yes
[12:10] <sabdfl> (fwiw folks, Robert Collins was is the longest-running Canonical dude)
[12:10] <sabdfl> was is
[12:10] <sabdfl> nice :-)
[12:10] <lifeless> sabdfl: sure. more recently - https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/pornview/+bug/2397 
[12:10] <lifeless> a patch for pornview
[12:10] <elmo> ...
[12:10] <sabdfl> can't believe you took that bait :-)
[12:10] <lifeless> :)
[12:11] <sabdfl> ok, +1 from me
[12:11] <lifeless> hey, a chance to get porn in the meeting log ?
[12:11] <dholbach> . o O { based on the pornview patch }
[12:11] <sivang> heh
[12:11] <jsgotangco> my hero!
[12:11] <sabdfl> dholbach: i feel every bug
[12:11] <dholbach> haha :-)
[12:11] <Kamion> I've got no problem with lifeless obviously, particularly if it gets more people paying attention to autotesting
[12:12] <sabdfl> ok, 2/3
[12:12] <Kamion> he's made plenty of contributions on/off over the years
[12:12] <elmo> well, lifeless was going to be +2 from me, but he loses a point for wasting time on pornview.  so +1
[12:12] <sabdfl> 4/3 then :-)
[12:12] <lifeless> thanks guys!
[12:13] <nictuku> congratulations :-)
[12:13] <sabdfl> elmo: don't foist your taste for ascii art on us here
[12:13] <sabdfl> "britney"
[12:13] <ogra> congrats lifeless :)
[12:13] <sivang> congrets lifeless !
[12:13] <sabdfl> nictuku: i think you're up next
[12:14] <freeflying> lifeless: congrats
[12:14] <nictuku> thank you.
[12:14] <nictuku> i'm afraid none of my friends showed up - only MarioMeyer (Meyer) but he seems to be asleep (07:00AM here), but i'll try it anyway ;-).
[12:14] <nictuku> I'm Yves Junqueira, a 24 years old Python hacker. I live in Braslia, Brazil, and work a sysadmin and python developer in a Federal Government Ministry, although being graduated in International Relations. I've founded #ubuntu-br in circa december/2004 and I code and package some cool software: nwu - Network Wide Updates - and python-sysinfo. Nwu is based on a spec by mvo. Since january/2005 I've been  dedicating many daily hours of free tim
[12:14] <nictuku> e to the project so we can have a tool similar to RedHat's RHN and Microsoft's SUS, but GPL. I administer a few dozen servers and I know how helpful a software that handles packages installation and upgrades automatically could be. With the help of MarioMeyer, a good friend, I'm also working on packaging nwu and the required python-sysinfo and they are both in revu.  The history of changes is linked in the profile. These have been months of t
[12:14] <nictuku> ruly hard work and lots of love for Ubuntu :-).Besides wanting to work even harder on nwu - specially making a cool PyGTK interface -, I want to keep helping the Ubuntu-BR LoCoTeam any way I can, either contributing to the planet or helping users on the IRC channel. If I'm honored with the Ubuntu Member status, though, my voice will be lowder I'll be able to spread even more ubuntu love (and installations) to the government agencies, in which
[12:14] <nictuku>  Ubuntu already has a great market share. Thanks :-)
[12:15] <sabdfl> wow, that's a great contribution!
[12:15] <sabdfl> what do you think of the revu process?
[12:16] <sabdfl> how could we make it better?
[12:16] <nictuku> thank you. I think it's great already, although maybe if non-motu could also write unofficial reviewes, that would be great.
[12:17] <sabdfl> we are keen to extend revu to main as well, in dapper+1 timeframe
[12:17] <nictuku> I really would like to become a MOTU sometime, by the way.
[12:17] <dholbach> nictuku: that's great to hear.
[12:17] <nictuku> dholbach, thanks
[12:18] <dholbach> i see, you're hanging around in #ubuntu-motu already. :-)
[12:18] <ogra> what will python-sysinfo gain us over hal and its hardware data ? is there added value a later hwdb client ycould use ?
[12:18] <sivang> sabdfl: for every package or just new packages ?
[12:19] <nictuku> dholbach, yes, despite in my time zone and the time I have to be on IRC doesn't match with most european members :-(
[12:19] <sabdfl> ok  +1 for Yves from me, based on sustained work on nwu at https://dev.ubuntubrasil.org/trac/nwu/timeline?daysback=180
[12:19] <sabdfl> sivang: every package
[12:19] <sabdfl> to make community contributions to main smoother
[12:19] <sabdfl> but ore on that another time
[12:20] <Seveas> sabdfl, cool
[12:20] <sabdfl> will be, i think :-)
[12:20] <nictuku> hal wouldn't provide all data we need. It's abstraction for the packaging system, not only for hardware. 
[12:20] <sivang> sabdfl: nice
[12:20] <Kamion> +1 on nictuku based on plenty of nwu work etc. and a good thoughtful wiki page
[12:20] <Seveas> nictuku, there are many ubuntu-br members who already applied for membership. Why did you wait so long? 
[12:20] <ogra> nictuku, so could hwdb benefit from it ? 
[12:21] <nictuku> Seveas, I really didn't know if my contributions  was relevant.. I don't do much translation and bug report (low karma on LP, you see..)
[12:21] <ogra> (it needs more data than hal offers actually, i'd love to have one unique HW info backend :) )
[12:22] <nictuku> ogra, it's more like the opposite. python-sysinfo is dumb, it's more like a parser.
[12:22] <ogra> ah
[12:22] <nictuku> but it does aggregates a lot of information from different sources
[12:22] <elmo> ack
[12:22] <sabdfl> ok! welcome aboard
[12:22] <nictuku> currently it uses lshw to collect hardware info, for example.
[12:22] <nictuku> :-)
[12:22] <Seveas> nictuku, congratz! 
[12:22] <sladen> the karma system could benefit on 'external plugins'  (eg. mailing posts to lists.ubuntu.com, or posts on ubuntoforums.org)
[12:22] <sabdfl> approved in lp
[12:23] <nictuku> you guys have no idea how happy I am. Thank you very much!
[12:23] <sabdfl> sladen: +1
[12:23] <ogra> ah :) cool 
[12:23] <ogra> i'll look at it once the package is in :)
[12:23] <sabdfl> would be very useful to get mailman and forums into the karma infrastructure
[12:23] <sabdfl> we'll get uploads, reviews etc in due course too
[12:23] <ogra> nictuku, congrats btw :)
[12:23] <Mithrandir> sabdfl: trivial to do for mailman, at least.
[12:23] <Seveas> eyequeue seems to be missing 
[12:23] <dholbach> congratulations nictuku
[12:24] <nictuku> even then my karma would still be low, as I'm basically a "upstream coder".
[12:24] <elmo> yes, but not by integrating into mailman
[12:24] <sabdfl> eyequeue's not around
[12:24] <Seveas> imtheface is 
[12:24] <elmo> you'd do it like ud-echelon, by subscribing to the lists
[12:24] <Mithrandir> as long as you have a way to guesstimate from poster to launchpad id.
[12:24] <nictuku> Seveas, ogra, dholbacht hank you  :-)
[12:24] <Mithrandir> elmo: oh, why?
[12:24] <elmo> Mithrandir: because I don't want lists.u.c tied to LP
[12:24] <sabdfl> Mithrandir: email, mostly
[12:24] <elmo> and more relevantly because there's no need to
[12:24] <sabdfl> ud-echelon?
[12:24] <Mithrandir> elmo: well, that's a possibility, too.
[12:25] <elmo> sabdfl: debian's userdir-ldap has an echelon system that keeps track of "last seen" for Debian developers by subscribing to Debian  lists and matching From line's to DDs and checking signatures
[12:25] <Mithrandir> elmo: I was thinking generating a state file which lp grabbed daily or something.
[12:25] <sabdfl> elmo: we do want to make it easy to create a mailing list for an LP team
[12:25] <sabdfl> ah, right
[12:25] <nictuku> sabdfl, thank you for being supportive about my small contributions :-)
[12:25] <sabdfl> nice name :-)
[12:25] <Seveas> can we move on to imtheface ?
[12:26] <elmo> sorry, yes, this isn't CC-relevant
[12:26] <Seveas> ok, imtheface please give us your 3-liner
[12:26] <imtheface> born as andy apdhani in jakarta, indonesia *and still there*. i'm bachelor in economics, as well as a huge fan of Free Software and also a dreamer! :)
[12:26] <imtheface> wiki: [ https://wiki.ubuntu.com/imtheface ]  - lp: [ https://launchpad.net/people/imtheface ]  - in ubuntu mostly i contribute on translation, and provide support for local user on indonesian milist and forum.
[12:26] <imtheface> in future i would like to help on documentation especially by making it avalaible in local language. last is to translate more apps & doc into indonesian.
[12:26] <imtheface> okay done
[12:27] <jsgotangco> its nice to see a fellow south east asian active :)
[12:27] <imtheface> thx u!
[12:28] <sabdfl> great translation work, andy
[12:29] <imtheface> savdfl: still a lot more to translate :)
[12:29] <jsgotangco> have you worked with Belutz?
[12:29] <jsgotangco> (Andi Darmawan)
[12:29] <sabdfl> one string at a time, we will shortly add a way to prioritise the different templates in dapper
[12:29] <imtheface> yes ... mainly we talk in milist
[12:30] <sabdfl> ok, +1 from me for imtheface on the basis of lots of translation suggestions
[12:31] <imtheface> sabdfl: kewl
[12:31] <elmo> ack from me too
[12:32] <sabdfl> Kamion, do you have a keyboard at this point?
[12:32] <Kamion> yeah, imtheface +1, plenty of translation work and apparently localised documentation too although I can't read it :)
[12:32] <sabdfl> ok, welcome aboard andy!
[12:32] <nictuku> imtheface, congrats!!
[12:32] <imtheface> Kamion: put it on lp then! :)
[12:32] <imtheface> thx u all
[12:33] <sabdfl> imtheface: did you request to join ubuntumembers in LP?
[12:33] <imtheface> sabdfl: no yet!
[12:33] <sabdfl> could you do that and ping me quickly, please?
[12:33] <jsgotangco> imtheface: welcome
[12:34] <imtheface> jsgotangco: thx u again
[12:34] <sabdfl> we should have an efficient way to mail "all the people waiting to join ubuntumembers"
[12:34] <sabdfl> note to self
[12:35] <sabdfl> ok, david symons
[12:35] <bimberi> hi all - i'll try a single paste...
[12:35] <bimberi> I'm an software-engineer/IT-manager from Canberra Australia.  Ubuntu user since November 2004.  I've been helping people regularly on IRC (initially #ubuntu, later #kubuntu and #edubuntu also) since June 2005 averaging a couple of hours per day.
[12:35] <bimberi> Other contributions: ubotu factoid editing, wikipage editing, laptop testing, testing for developers who've sought volunteers, bug reporting, spurious webpage reporting, active in the Australian LocoTeam and successfully submitting a recipe for the Official Ubuntu Book.
[12:35] <bimberi> I see availability of local support as important to IT managers considering the Ubuntu alternative - so I'm lobbying the company I contract through to become an Ubuntu Support Provider.  Other plans are to get into bug triage (an area of great need I perceive), participate in Ubuntu marketing/advocacy fora, and continue the above.  Cheers!
[12:36] <Seveas> \o/ from me for #ubuntu support - not the most active person but smart and doing good contributions
[12:36] <sabdfl> bimberi: can you comment on the current state of #ubuntu, #kubuntu, #edubuntu?
[12:36] <bimberi> Seveas: thanks
[12:37] <Seveas> sabdfl, (on a reated node: bans in several channels are now tracked, see http://bugbot.ubuntulinux.nl/bantracker )
[12:37] <sabdfl> Seveas: that's excellent - thanks!
[12:37] <sabdfl> link's busted though
[12:37] <Seveas> ehrm.. s/bantracker/bans.cgi/
[12:38] <nictuku> the link in the main page to the ban tracker is borked too
[12:38] <bimberi> sabdfl: #ubuntu is, of course, so busy - frantic at times.  It works very well IMO.  #kubuntu and #edubuntu are quieter
[12:38] <ogra> Seveas, oh, a keylogger to get you our LP passwords ? *G*
[12:39] <Seveas> ogra, lp_auth code can be viewed online
[12:39] <ogra> yes, #edubuntu gets very specific questions :)
[12:39] <Seveas> http://bugbot.ubuntulinux.nl/lp_auth.py
[12:39] <ogra> Seveas, i wasnt serious :)
[12:40] <Seveas> ogra, I am - I know this question will come up sooner or later 
[12:40] <bimberi> sabdfl: the op coverage in #ubuntu has improved in recent times with the recent additions
[12:40] <Seveas> bimberi, do you think it's good enough ?
[12:41] <bimberi> Seveas: yes i do :)
[12:41] <sabdfl> bimberi: what's your biggest "wishlist" item for ubuntu?
[12:42] <bimberi> sabdfl: to see it break though the mind-barriers of IT Managers as a windows replacement
[12:42] <sabdfl> and any suggestions as to the top things we need to do to make that happen?
[12:44] <bimberi> sabdfl: marketing to existing IT Service providers to identify the existing FOSS-capable resources in their midst and foster them into a team capable of providing an excellent service
[12:45] <sabdfl> sounds good, yes
[12:45] <sabdfl> +1 for bimberi from me, on the back of sustained contributions to support in #ubuntu
[12:45] <sabdfl> bimberi: have you seen the LP support tracker?
[12:45] <bimberi> sabdfl: from my point of view ubuntu has made leaps and bounds with addressing little things that annoyed people FOSS - such as copy and paste between apps.  Continuing to do that to do...
[12:46] <bimberi> sabdfl: no
[12:47] <dholbach> bimberi: http://launchpad.net/support
[12:47] <sabdfl> it's in very early stages, but will become the main channel for tracking support requests
[12:47] <sabdfl> links into the bugtracker where needed etc
[12:47] <bimberi> Continuing to focus on those little things too stop people dismissing it quickly (as used to occur when I demonstrated other distros)
[12:47] <sabdfl> fyi
[12:47] <sabdfl> kamion, elmo?
[12:47] <Kamion> bimberi +1 for #ubuntu work and Australian team work
[12:47] <elmo> ack
[12:48] <bimberi> sabdfl: ah, yes  thankyou :)
[12:48] <bimberi> thankyou all :-))
[12:48] <Kamion> bimberi: little things> definitely yeah - there's just so many of them :-)
[12:49] <bimberi> Kamion: haha - and Launchpad makes it so easy to report them :-)
[12:49] <sabdfl> ok, updated in LP
[12:50] <Kamion> ok, any other business?
[12:50] <bimberi> sabdfl: cheers :)
[12:50] <Seveas> yes
[12:50] <sabdfl> when shall we n meet again?
[12:50] <Seveas> bstqc_ostl, aka victor39 is around today 
[12:50] <bstqc_ostl> Hello,everyone.I am Victor.My irc name is bstqc_ostl.
[12:50] <bstqc_ostl> my wiki page is:https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Victor39
[12:50] <Kamion> ah, ok, one more
[12:50] <bstqc_ostl> I am a software testing engineer in Beijing Software Testing Center.Beijing Software Testing  Center is a professional third-part company .
[12:51] <bstqc_ostl> I and my colleagues have done an all-sided testing on ubuntu-5.04 and dapper flight2.Our  testing includes functionality testing,setup testing,compatibility testing and performance  testing.I filed all the bug fond into bugzilla and malone.And I have published our testing  report to community.
[12:51] <sabdfl> hi victor!
[12:51] <bstqc_ostl> I have tested for flight2 on dell latitude d600.And I am the contact of dell latitude d600  laptop testing in LaptopTestingTeam.  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LaptopTestingTeam/DellLatitudeD600 
[12:51] <bstqc_ostl> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LaptopTestingTeam/
[12:51] <bstqc_ostl> hi,sabdfl
[12:51] <bstqc_ostl> In January and February,2006,we asist Canonical to visit Beijing as a part of Ubuntu Asia  Business Tour.
[12:51] <bstqc_ostl> Now we are testing dapper for the release in June.
[12:51] <bstqc_ostl> Thanks!
[12:51] <sabdfl> +1 from me for victor on the basis of excellent help on ABT and ongoing testing feedback and support
[12:52] <elmo> sabdfl: you just +1'ed him 'cos he has a photo of you on his wikipage, didn't you
[12:52] <Seveas> I've been talking to victor before and \o/ from for his enthousiasm 
[12:52] <jsgotangco> haha
[12:52] <bstqc_ostl> thank you,sabdfl. 
[12:52] <sabdfl> elmo: you got it in one
[12:52] <sabdfl> elmo: this of course is one advantage from not running away when people point cameras at one
[12:52] <dholbach> yeah, I was amazed by the work he did and he and I will sit together for integrating the OSTL test plans in http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing
[12:52] <Kamion> it will get easier once they're distilled into bug reports in malone
[12:53] <jsgotangco> yeah the last test was with a dapper milestone though that i got to host
[12:53] <dholbach> Kamion: the last bunch of defect reports were filed into malone/bugzilla
[12:53] <Kamion> I've got no problem with Victor though, sustained lab testing is excellent and sorely needed
[12:53] <Kamion> dholbach: ah, good
[12:54] <elmo> yeah, ack from me too
[12:54] <Seveas> bstqc_ostl, congratz !
[12:54] <sabdfl> kamion, that a +1?
[12:54] <Kamion> sabdfl: yes
[12:54] <bstqc_ostl> thanks, dholbach.thanks,all!
[12:54] <sabdfl> ok, welcome aboart victor
[12:55] <freeflying> bstqc_ostl: congrats
[12:55] <bstqc_ostl> sabdfl:cheers!
[12:55] <dholbach> that's excellent news, bstqc_ostl :-)
[12:55] <sabdfl> very welcome indeed
[12:55] <sabdfl> ok, when do we want to meet again?
[12:56] <bstqc_ostl> dholbach: :)
[12:56] <bstqc_ostl> can I get a mail address named bstqc_ostl@ubuntu.com?Because we are a team  working for ubuntu.Besides me,there are other members in our open source testing lab.I am  only a representative.
[12:56] <nictuku> congrats bstqc_ostl :-)
[12:56] <Seveas> sabdfl, in 2 weeks, preferably on a different time
[12:56] <sabdfl> april 17 is easter monday
[12:56] <Seveas> (I'm actually giving a class now)
[12:56] <bstqc_ostl> ths,nicuku!
[12:56] <sabdfl> bstqc_ostl: i think you automatically get your LP preferred email  @ubuntu.com
[12:57] <sabdfl> for some value of automatic, after elmo reviews it
[12:57] <ogra> why is the CC meeting on a monday anyway ? 
[12:57] <Simira> I knew something was wrong! It's monday today
[12:57] <jsgotangco> yeah
[12:57] <Seveas> ogra, to fit some peoples schedule
[12:57] <ogra> i thought that was an exception
[12:57] <Simira> sabdfl: who not the 18th?
[12:57] <jsgotangco> i blinked twice when i saw activity
[12:57] <bstqc_ostl> sabdfl:I see.
[12:57] <sabdfl> i'm on the road to Rhodes tomorrow
[12:57] <Seveas> proposal: april 18, 22:00 UTC?
[12:57] <sabdfl> i could do the 18th
[12:58] <Kamion> I'm on holiday on the 18th
[12:58] <sabdfl> would prefer a little earlier, since DST kicked in
[12:58] <ogra> ++
[12:58] <ogra> 20:00 UTC ?
[12:58] <sabdfl> 21:00 is 22:00 local in the UK
[12:58] <Seveas> +1 on 21:00
[12:58] <sabdfl> elmo? mako should be able to make either
[12:59] <sabdfl> Kamion: np, enjoy the holiday
[12:59] <elmo> I can make that
[12:59] <sabdfl> ok, 21:00 UTC it is
[12:59] <Kamion> it's my stepson's birthday, I missed it last year due to UDU so I'm not missing it this year ;-)
[01:00] <Seveas> ok, see you all in 2 weeks!
[01:00] <jsgotangco> nice meeting
[01:00] <Seveas> I'll poke robitaille to put the meeting on the fridge 
[01:00] <sabdfl> updated the agenda
[01:01] <sabdfl> ok, thanks everybody
[01:01] <sabdfl> sorry for waking you up elmo!
[01:01] <nictuku> any problem if I rename my LP profile id now?
[01:02] <sabdfl> nictuku: not unless it clashes
[01:02] <nictuku> ok
[01:31] <eyequeue> ?