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highvoltage | ah :) | 08:09 |
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highvoltage | morning, #edubuntu. | 09:39 |
Pygi | mornin' highvoltage :-/ | 09:39 |
highvoltage | hi Pygi. what's with the :-/ ? | 09:40 |
Pygi | I'm not feelin' very well ,that's what =P | 09:40 |
highvoltage | ogra: have you ever played with xfce4 at all? | 09:40 |
highvoltage | Pygi: how so, feeling sick? | 09:40 |
Pygi | highvoltage: yea, two days already ... that's why I haven't sent the layout :-/ | 09:40 |
highvoltage | hmm. hope you get better real soon. | 09:41 |
highvoltage | our weather here is getting at that 'fluey' stage too right now. | 09:41 |
Pygi | thanks, I hope as well ^_^ We have many things to do ^_^ | 09:41 |
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ogra | highvoltage, not with the new one, no ... | 11:12 |
highvoltage | ogra: even though I like gnome a lot, i'm considering xfce for tuxlabs. it's come such a far way, and you save 30MB RAM per client. | 11:14 |
highvoltage | ogra: not that i'm suggesting it yet, but is it completely implausible that edubuntu might use xfce in the future? | 11:15 |
ogra | i'd love to have it as optional choice on the Cd | 11:15 |
ogra | even now | 11:16 |
ogra | but you know our space problems | 11:16 |
highvoltage | yep :) | 11:16 |
highvoltage | do we know more or less how much space gnome consumes? | 11:17 |
ogra | nope | 11:17 |
jsgotangco | go DVD | 11:18 |
jsgotangco | :) | 11:18 |
ogra | its currently out of scope, if we have space we'll need to add languages | 11:18 |
=== jsgotangco hides | ||
ogra | yeah | 11:18 |
ogra | xfce4 is in main now, so its on the DVD | 11:18 |
highvoltage | ooh! that's very nice. | 11:19 |
jsgotangco | ogra: hmmm i have a friend/publisher coming out with a new campus-oriented magazine this june. would you prefer to have it bundle edubuntu workstation or ubuntu? | 11:19 |
jsgotangco | they're *seriously* considering bundling a CD | 11:19 |
ogra | is there only one choice ? | 11:19 |
jsgotangco | (100,000 circulation) | 11:19 |
jsgotangco | (locally) | 11:20 |
ogra | (indeed i'd prefer edubuntu ;) ) | 11:20 |
jsgotangco | i could piss you off and bundle OpenCD 4 instead | 11:20 |
ogra | heh | 11:21 |
highvoltage | jsgotangco: be careful, we (ogra's gangs) will hunt you down | 11:21 |
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highvoltage | :) | 11:24 |
ogra | :) | 11:24 |
ogra | *sigh* | 11:32 |
ogra | mdz assigned me 31 new bugs :/ | 11:33 |
ogra | thats heavy for one night | 11:33 |
Pygi | not good :-/ | 11:33 |
Pygi | ogra: can I be of any help? :-/ | 11:33 |
ogra | nope, it my job to care for these bugs :) | 11:34 |
ogra | s/it/its/ | 11:34 |
Pygi | aha,ok ^_^ | 11:34 |
ogra | you do a lot already with helping with other stuff i cant care for | 11:34 |
ogra | :) | 11:34 |
Pygi | nah, it's nothing actually ^_^ | 11:35 |
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looksaus | can anyone tell me how user management is done by default in edubuntu? | 11:38 |
looksaus | (or where can I find this info) | 11:38 |
highvoltage | is it possible to have a chroot environment, that has access to two network cards, while the main system only has one network card up? | 11:39 |
ogra | highvoltage, nope | 11:42 |
ogra | not easily at least | 11:42 |
ogra | strike the last sentence ... | 11:42 |
ogra | thats a clear no :) | 11:43 |
ogra | they share one /proc filesystem to access your HW | 11:43 |
looksaus | I'm trying to compare edubuntu and skolelinux | 11:43 |
looksaus | on the aspect of user management | 11:43 |
looksaus | seems that skolelinux uses ldap by default | 11:43 |
ogra | looksaus, there is the user and group manager in tyour system menu | 11:44 |
ogra | we dont ... | 11:44 |
looksaus | ogra, that is fine for managing single users, or small groups | 11:44 |
ogra | we're not at enterprise level yet ... the defaultls are set up for a standalone classroom server | 11:44 |
looksaus | ok, thx for your reply | 11:44 |
ogra | ldap is on the list for further release ... | 11:45 |
ogra | but not yet :) | 11:45 |
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ogra | for this release the focus was on ltsp improvement | 11:46 |
=== Pygi was just reminded that I need to talk to Mithrandir about LDAP for next release | ||
=== Pygi thanks ogra ^_^ | ||
ogra | :) | 11:46 |
Pygi | looksaus: skolelinux is not so good talking from experience of a lot of people | 11:47 |
looksaus | Pygi, could you elaborate on that | 11:48 |
Pygi | looksaus: not so good support, non-predictable releases, ... ask people who converted to edubuntu? ^_^ | 11:48 |
highvoltage | ogra: ok, thanks | 11:48 |
looksaus | Pygi, you? | 11:49 |
highvoltage | i tested the previous version of skolelinux | 11:49 |
highvoltage | we couldn't use it in tuxlabs because it was so old (based on woody) that it wouldn't run properly on new hardware. | 11:50 |
highvoltage | that's probably not such a big problem for the newer version that's based on sarge, though. | 11:50 |
Pygi | looksaus: me? me what this time? =P Nah, I haven't tried skolelinux, I am just talking about people that I know they are experts in that area, and they say it's not good | 11:51 |
highvoltage | besides that, skolelinux is OK, I think. | 11:51 |
Pygi | looksaus: anyway, I never contributed to that skolelinux, and I did to edubuntu ^_^ | 11:51 |
looksaus | k, thought you were speaking of own experience, thx Pygi | 11:51 |
Pygi | yw ;) | 11:51 |
ogra | Pygi, there is a difference :) | 11:52 |
Pygi | funny thing about "skole" is that it means "schools" on my language (altought first letter is different, but english doesn't have that letter) | 11:52 |
ogra | with skole you can run a complete munucipality or a complete university ... | 11:52 |
Pygi | yes, yes, I know ^_^ | 11:53 |
ogra | thats far from what we do out of the box yet ... | 11:53 |
Pygi | ogra: at least for now ^_^ | 11:53 |
highvoltage | ogra: do you know if skolelinuz uses debian meukow ltsp, or the tarball from ltsp.org? | 11:53 |
ogra | yep | 11:53 |
Pygi | notice the "at least for now" bit :) | 11:53 |
ogra | highvoltage, skloe uses our ltsp with some debian specific modifications, older kernel, no initramfs and some glue | 11:54 |
highvoltage | in Afrikaans, "skool" = "school" and "skole" = "schools", so skolelinux literally means "Schools Linux" | 11:54 |
ogra | yep | 11:54 |
looksaus | highvoltage, spreek jy Afrikaans? | 11:54 |
highvoltage | ogra: 2.4 kernel? does that mean thay have swap over NFS? | 11:54 |
highvoltage | looksaus: ja | 11:54 |
ogra | highvoltage, nope, 2.6 but sarge is using 2.6.8 | 11:55 |
ogra | and etch is still far from being released | 11:55 |
ogra | skole has the big problem that they are no part of debian and have to modify the released distro | 11:56 |
ogra | so they *have* to be outdated,m since they have to implement their stuff on top | 11:56 |
highvoltage | hmmm.. that's sucky. | 11:57 |
ogra | we might be slower in achieving all the stuff they have implemented, but in the end we'll just release with ubuntu ... | 11:57 |
looksaus | ogra, though you can probably dist-upgrade skolelinux to a Debian release without too much probs, right? | 11:57 |
ogra | i think in 1-2 releases we're on par ... | 11:57 |
=== highvoltage thinks so too | ||
highvoltage | do you think by then they'll consider using an ubuntu base? | 11:58 |
ogra | looksaus, no idea, sorry ... it might break the onfig or it might not ... | 11:58 |
highvoltage | it would certainly make things easier for them. | 11:58 |
highvoltage | looksaus: is jy belgies? | 11:58 |
looksaus | ogra, they seem to be Debian proper with a few custom things | 11:58 |
ogra | highvoltage, i'd hope so :) | 11:58 |
looksaus | highvoltage, ja | 11:58 |
highvoltage | :) | 11:58 |
looksaus | highvoltage, ek het "Die klein prinsie" gelees in Afrikaans | 11:59 |
ogra | looksaus, they put their changes on top of a debian system with scripts changing the config ... | 11:59 |
ogra | i have no idea how that works on upgrades, but it might fail badly | 11:59 |
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Pygi | welcome jane_ | 12:03 |
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Sameh | hi | 12:09 |
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highvoltage | ogra: if i have an ltsp server on the internet, that has some passwordless users, with sshd listening on a strange port, with passwordless logins disabled from the ssh side, should it be safe? | 12:11 |
looksaus | highvoltage, you mean with key based auth? | 12:13 |
ogra | at least the passwordless users wont be able to log in | 12:13 |
highvoltage | yeah | 12:13 |
JaneW | Pygi: just the daily ADSL line reset | 12:14 |
looksaus | is there a "competition" document on edubuntu versus skolelinux versus debian proper plus ltsp somewhere? | 12:14 |
ogra | nope | 12:15 |
ogra | +i'll write a comparison of the two ltsp implementations for the release, but we dont "compete" with skole, so i wont write such a doc :) | 12:16 |
looksaus | ogra, competition doesn't need to be hostile, right | 12:16 |
ogra | (petter reinholdsen (skole lead dev) is one of my best contributors to ltsp :) ) | 12:16 |
looksaus | call it comparison | 12:16 |
looksaus | if you want | 12:16 |
ogra | if you research skole vs edubuntu, feel free to make a wikipage with your findings :) | 12:17 |
jsgotangco | the skole people give very good suggestions regarding edubuntu | 12:17 |
jsgotangco | they even wanted to contribute the driftwood book and make it edubuntu compatible | 12:17 |
ogra | but note that our target for now were rather k12ltsp users ... | 12:17 |
looksaus | it was already clear to me that there is healthy collaboration | 12:17 |
ogra | i think they might consider us as a base one day, but we're currently lacking theor enterprise features ... | 12:18 |
jsgotangco | hmm | 12:19 |
jsgotangco | dumb question | 12:19 |
looksaus | skolelinux seems to have too small a developer base to build my (small) school network business upon | 12:19 |
jsgotangco | does the 6.06 5 years on the server also apply to us ogra? | 12:19 |
jsgotangco | looksaus: edubuntu has smaller i'd say | 12:19 |
spacey | yup | 12:19 |
=== jsgotangco looks at ogra | ||
ogra | not really sure | 12:20 |
jsgotangco | yeah | 12:21 |
ogra | because our server (ltsp) is hard depending on the desktop | 12:21 |
looksaus | looks like 3 years will be enough then... | 12:21 |
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MornHyland | morning | 12:30 |
ogra | hi | 12:30 |
MornHyland | how goes? | 12:30 |
ogra | busy :) | 12:30 |
MornHyland | flight 6 is out | 12:30 |
MornHyland | cool | 12:31 |
MornHyland | I am thinking of replacing one of the servers here in the house with edubuntu | 12:31 |
spacey | bah scribus doesn't handle .svg | 12:31 |
MornHyland | I am a programmer of 20 years experience who is finally in college getting my degree in math, with a focus on education, I am hoping to make a project out of doing some work with edubuntu this summer | 12:32 |
spacey | MornHyland: thats cool :) | 12:33 |
spacey | and abiword doesn't support svg either :/ | 12:33 |
MornHyland | spacey: hopefully the blonde girl can do something useful | 12:33 |
MornHyland | It's been a while since I did anything useful in the linux world | 12:34 |
spacey | :) | 12:34 |
MornHyland | time to make sure people don't forget me | 12:34 |
spacey | don't worry | 12:34 |
spacey | i'm sure you can :) | 12:34 |
MornHyland | Though I may focus on using mono more than C/C++ | 12:34 |
ogra | MornHyland, by the looks of it, it seems implementing .svg support in abiword and scribus would win you a friend *g* | 12:35 |
spacey | oh abiword does | 12:35 |
spacey | :P | 12:35 |
spacey | MornHyland: what be really cool is some decent educational applications :) | 12:36 |
MornHyland | spacey: educational packages is where I will be looking | 12:36 |
ogra | MornHyland, look like we'll very likely have f-spot in the default install in the october release, that would pull mono into the default install so apps in mono would be fine for us :) | 12:36 |
jsgotangco | woohoo | 12:37 |
MornHyland | My contributions in the past were to maintain the postgresql odbc driver a long time ago, and stuff like adding virtual serial port support to dosemu | 12:37 |
ogra | nice ! | 12:37 |
MornHyland | Now I really want to deal more with educational software, maybe get the uni to give me some credit for developing that sort of thing | 12:38 |
jsgotangco | brb | 12:42 |
MornHyland | That is great to hear about the mono integration | 12:42 |
MornHyland | what does 'f-spot' mean, sorry I am not familiar with the term | 12:42 |
MornHyland | I'd like to see my tablet oriented apps for linux, but doubt I am the one to code them (grin) | 12:51 |
MornHyland | I personally think that tablets will be the way to go in the classroom | 12:54 |
MornHyland | also integration with captioning services in the classroom for deaf and hard of hearing students | 12:55 |
ogra | oh, you should talk to kjcole then (once he's around), he works in a school for deaf people | 12:56 |
ogra | yippiee !!! | 12:56 |
MornHyland | ogra: do you know which oone? | 12:56 |
ogra | we are allowed to get rid of the darn "server" option on the CD :) | 12:56 |
MornHyland | ogra: you seem happy this morning... | 12:56 |
MornHyland | I never tried that option, what did it really do? | 12:57 |
ogra | MornHyland, sorry, no, anywhere in the us eastcoast area | 12:57 |
ogra | install a minimal system | 12:57 |
MornHyland | ogra: I'm from the northeast, near Clarke School (though I didn't go there) | 12:57 |
ogra | the name was always a probelm, since we default to a server install | 12:57 |
ogra | so people saw "server", installed that and wondered why theor ltsp (which needs a desktop installed) didnt work | 12:58 |
MornHyland | ah | 12:58 |
MornHyland | makes sense | 12:58 |
ogra | it caused a lot of confusion ... i'm fighting since 6 months with sabdfl to get rid of it ... | 12:58 |
ogra | or to rename it to "minimal" | 12:59 |
MornHyland | glad you made progress | 01:00 |
ogra | yep, me too | 01:00 |
ogra | will make a lot of things easier | 01:01 |
MornHyland | I really like the way the latest beta's are looking | 01:01 |
ogra | thanks :) | 01:01 |
MornHyland | and the fact that SD cards finally work is really nice | 01:01 |
ogra | thats inherite from ubuntu :) | 01:01 |
=== ogra kicks his d | ||
MornHyland | I've actually got edubuntu on an older 600Mhz laptop and it runs great | 01:02 |
ogra | cool :) | 01:02 |
MornHyland | I will put a small install on the newer tablet to use it there as well when time permits | 01:03 |
MornHyland | for class though I still need windows for taking notes on the tablet | 01:04 |
MornHyland | Wacom support is still a little 'flakey' at this point | 01:04 |
ogra | if you have HW probs with it, i'm sure mjg59 would like to hear about it in #ubuntu-devel | 01:05 |
ogra | (with the tablet pc, not the wacom) | 01:05 |
MornHyland | The tablet uses wacom, but I understand | 01:05 |
ogra | oh, i didnt know ... | 01:05 |
MornHyland | I have a toshiba r15 | 01:05 |
ogra | ah | 01:05 |
ogra | i never had such HW in my hands ... | 01:06 |
ogra | my domain are thin clients :) | 01:06 |
MornHyland | I needed something I could easily carry all of my notebooks in | 01:06 |
MornHyland | and there is a windows application called GoBinder that does the job nicely | 01:06 |
MornHyland | I have all the notes for every class I've ever taken in one application | 01:07 |
MornHyland | handwritten | 01:07 |
MornHyland | and searchable | 01:07 |
looksaus | ogra, what is the most budget friendly new thin client you know of? | 01:16 |
ogra | see disklessworkstations.com | 01:16 |
looksaus | (think x86 pxe bootable no flash) | 01:16 |
ogra | (you fund ltsp with buying there as well) | 01:16 |
MornHyland | I wonder if I could ressurect the tuxscreen as a thin client to edubuntu | 01:17 |
looksaus | ogra, I'm sorry to say that is not really an option for me | 01:17 |
ogra | oh ? | 01:17 |
ogra | i dont know any cheaper offers ... | 01:17 |
ogra | at least for new thin client HW | 01:18 |
MornHyland | has anyone worked with the tuxscreens? | 01:18 |
ogra | and they are tested and proven to work as well ... | 01:18 |
ogra | nope, whats tuxscreen ? | 01:18 |
MornHyland | www.tuxscreen.net | 01:19 |
MornHyland | It would be even better if I could get the tux screen to do tty | 01:19 |
ogra | we have no arm kernel around :/ | 01:20 |
ogra | (yet) | 01:20 |
MornHyland | there was a small kernel for it a while back, but the project seemed to disappear | 01:21 |
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MEagain | http://youtube.com/watch?v=kRJXLGSQ5i0 | 07:11 |
MEagain | so boring I figured you all could use a video :P | 07:12 |
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raekism | Hi all, Good concept of Edubuntu. My 6 yr old loves it. | 08:26 |
ogra | :) | 08:26 |
=== HedgeMage peeks in | ||
raekism | I just built her a machine, having a hard time installing Edubuntu over Ubuntu. I keep getting a bootstrap loader error. | 08:27 |
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ogra | how did you try to install edubuntu over ubuntu ? | 08:30 |
=== HedgeMage peeks in and rubs her ribs | ||
HedgeMage | hi Pygi | 08:31 |
HedgeMage | :) | 08:32 |
Pygi | ogra: you'll (and others) get new layout today | 08:33 |
Pygi | I suggest meeting at thursday, 9:00 UTC | 08:34 |
Pygi | anyway, will send in mail :) | 08:34 |
raekism | ogra I installed it fresh | 08:34 |
raekism | formatted the part. and ran the install | 08:34 |
ogra | Pygi, thursday morning is bad, we'll have dapper development meeting around that time | 08:35 |
Pygi | ogra: k, one day later then? | 08:35 |
ogra | raekism, both have been tha same release ? | 08:35 |
ogra | Pygi, or in the afternoon | 08:35 |
Pygi | ogra: I can't free afternoon :-/ | 08:35 |
ogra | the americans wont have time in the moring ... its in the middle of the night for tham | 08:36 |
ogra | *them | 08:36 |
Pygi | ogra: buh, it's private meeting, remember? :P | 08:36 |
ogra | what ? | 08:36 |
ogra | we dont do private meetings | 08:37 |
ogra | at least not for community work ... | 08:37 |
Pygi | hm, agreed, but it was told that only 3-4 of us will work on that because the meeting was a failure? :--/ | 08:37 |
=== HedgeMage votes for anytime she'll be awake and wonders what the meeting you mention is about | ||
ogra | HedgeMage, the cookbook | 08:38 |
Pygi | HedgeMage: guess what meeting failed =P | 08:38 |
HedgeMage | ahh gotcha | 08:38 |
Pygi | ogra: bah, so public meeting? | 08:38 |
HedgeMage | Pygi: it could have been worse... most IRC-held meetings aren't that civil :P (trust me, I've gotten netted to handle a few when they didn't bother to have chanops present) | 08:38 |
ogra | Pygi, all meetings we do are public and open for everyone to join in | 08:39 |
Pygi | ogra: will do then ^_^ | 08:39 |
raekism | Yes they are both the 5.10 release | 08:39 |
ogra | i saw the logs briefly, i found nothing wrong with it ... | 08:39 |
HedgeMage | ogra: Pygi is just disappointed with how much got done, I think. | 08:39 |
ogra | raekism, then you could have achieved it a lot easier ;) | 08:39 |
raekism | how? upgrade!? | 08:40 |
raekism | installed on it | 08:40 |
raekism | ? | 08:40 |
ogra | HedgeMage, i stopped being dissapointed about cookbook stuff and i'd suggest everyone to not take it too serious, we're trying to get it written since nearly a year | 08:40 |
HedgeMage | ogra: wow long time. | 08:40 |
ogra | raekism, sudo apt-get install edubuntu-desktop | 08:40 |
raekism | ouch! | 08:41 |
ogra | HedgeMage, we had various people taking the task and dropping it again | 08:41 |
raekism | Can you do this using the KDE version? | 08:41 |
Pygi | ogra: agreed, but this time (since me and spacey took it over), I want it to be perfect ;) | 08:41 |
Pygi | perfectionism or perfectionism =P | 08:41 |
Burgwork | we in the doc team have a a bit of a revolving door with the authors of our primary docs too | 08:41 |
Pygi | no other option :) | 08:41 |
ogra | Pygi, i dont care if the first release of it is perfect as long as *something* exists | 08:41 |
Pygi | ogra: will do, no worries ^_^ | 08:42 |
ogra | :) | 08:42 |
HedgeMage | Well, if you have a meeting during my waking hours I'll show :P | 08:42 |
=== Yagisan peeks in for the first time since dapper wasted his box | ||
HedgeMage | My offer of a few hours work is still open | 08:42 |
Pygi | HedgeMage: 9:00 UTC fine for you? =P | 08:42 |
HedgeMage | Pygi: that's 1am here... I can try but no promises | 08:43 |
HedgeMage | Pygi: I have a toddler who wakes me up at 7am sharp, and a husband who leaves for work at 5am, costing me some sleep around then... sleep is precious | 08:44 |
Pygi | bah, don't mention sleep to me pls :) | 08:44 |
HedgeMage | (don't tell him he costs me sleep though I kinda fib about sleeping through it) | 08:44 |
HedgeMage | not fib, exactly, more like spin ;) | 08:49 |
=== Pygi will be back later | ||
HedgeMage | ttyl Pygi | 08:57 |
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LaserJock | is there an agenda for the Edubuntu meeting? | 09:15 |
ogra | LaserJock, we have a fixed agenda | 09:17 |
LaserJock | ogra: is there a URL? | 09:18 |
ogra | https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuMeetingRecords#head-5e7f70a61c134d6b4d43164288d5c686da158155 | 09:18 |
ogra | sorry, took a moment | 09:18 |
LaserJock | ah, weet | 09:18 |
LaserJock | sweet even | 09:18 |
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spacey | meeting already scheduled? | 11:17 |
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