[08:09] <highvoltage> ah :)
[09:39] <highvoltage> morning, #edubuntu.
[09:39] <Pygi> mornin' highvoltage :-/
[09:40] <highvoltage> hi Pygi. what's with the :-/ ?
[09:40] <Pygi> I'm not feelin' very well ,that's what =P
[09:40] <highvoltage> ogra: have you ever played with xfce4 at all?
[09:40] <highvoltage> Pygi: how so, feeling sick?
[09:40] <Pygi> highvoltage: yea, two days already ... that's why I haven't sent the layout :-/
[09:41] <highvoltage> hmm. hope you get better real soon.
[09:41] <highvoltage> our weather here is getting at that 'fluey' stage too right now.
[09:41] <Pygi> thanks, I hope as well ^_^ We have many things to do ^_^
[11:12] <ogra> highvoltage, not with the new one, no ...
[11:14] <highvoltage> ogra: even though I like gnome a lot, i'm considering xfce for tuxlabs. it's come such a far way, and you save 30MB RAM per client.
[11:15] <highvoltage> ogra: not that i'm suggesting it yet, but is it completely implausible that edubuntu might use xfce in the future?
[11:15] <ogra> i'd love to have it as optional choice on the Cd
[11:16] <ogra> even now
[11:16] <ogra> but you know our space problems
[11:16] <highvoltage> yep :)
[11:17] <highvoltage> do we know more or less how much space gnome consumes?
[11:17] <ogra> nope
[11:18] <jsgotangco> go DVD
[11:18] <jsgotangco> :)
[11:18] <ogra> its currently out of scope, if we have space we'll need to add languages
[11:18] <ogra> yeah
[11:18] <ogra> xfce4 is in main now, so its on the DVD
[11:19] <highvoltage> ooh! that's very nice.
[11:19] <jsgotangco> ogra: hmmm i have a friend/publisher coming out with a new campus-oriented magazine this june. would you prefer to have it bundle edubuntu workstation or ubuntu?
[11:19] <jsgotangco> they're *seriously* considering bundling a CD
[11:19] <ogra> is there only one choice ?
[11:19] <jsgotangco> (100,000 circulation)
[11:20] <jsgotangco> (locally)
[11:20] <ogra> (indeed i'd prefer edubuntu ;) )
[11:20] <jsgotangco> i could piss you off and bundle OpenCD 4 instead 
[11:21] <ogra> heh
[11:21] <highvoltage> jsgotangco: be careful, we (ogra's gangs) will hunt you down
[11:24] <highvoltage> :)
[11:24] <ogra> :)
[11:32] <ogra> *sigh*
[11:33] <ogra> mdz assigned me 31 new bugs :/
[11:33] <ogra> thats heavy for one night
[11:33] <Pygi> not good :-/
[11:33] <Pygi> ogra: can I be of any help? :-/
[11:34] <ogra> nope, it my job to care for these bugs :)
[11:34] <ogra> s/it/its/
[11:34] <Pygi> aha,ok ^_^
[11:34] <ogra> you do a lot already with helping with other stuff i cant care for
[11:34] <ogra> :)
[11:35] <Pygi> nah, it's nothing actually ^_^
[11:38] <looksaus> can anyone tell me how user management is done by default in edubuntu?
[11:38] <looksaus> (or where can I find this info)
[11:39] <highvoltage> is it possible to have a chroot environment, that has access to two network cards, while the main system only has one network card up?
[11:42] <ogra> highvoltage, nope
[11:42] <ogra> not easily at least 
[11:42] <ogra> strike the last sentence ...
[11:43] <ogra> thats a clear no :)
[11:43] <ogra> they share one /proc filesystem to access your HW 
[11:43] <looksaus> I'm trying to compare edubuntu and skolelinux
[11:43] <looksaus> on the aspect of user management
[11:43] <looksaus> seems that skolelinux uses ldap by default
[11:44] <ogra> looksaus, there is the user and group manager in tyour system menu
[11:44] <ogra> we dont ...
[11:44] <looksaus> ogra, that is fine for managing single users, or small groups
[11:44] <ogra> we're not at enterprise level yet ... the defaultls are set up for a standalone classroom server 
[11:44] <looksaus> ok, thx for your reply
[11:45] <ogra> ldap is on the list for further release ...
[11:45] <ogra> but not yet :)
[11:46] <ogra> for this release the focus was on ltsp improvement
[11:46] <ogra> :)
[11:47] <Pygi> looksaus: skolelinux is not so good talking from experience of a lot of people
[11:48] <looksaus> Pygi, could you elaborate on that
[11:48] <Pygi> looksaus: not so good support, non-predictable releases, ... ask people who converted to edubuntu? ^_^
[11:48] <highvoltage> ogra: ok, thanks
[11:49] <looksaus> Pygi, you?
[11:49] <highvoltage> i tested the previous version of skolelinux
[11:50] <highvoltage> we couldn't use it in tuxlabs because it was so old (based on woody) that it wouldn't run properly on new hardware.
[11:50] <highvoltage> that's probably not such a big problem for the newer version that's based on sarge, though.
[11:51] <Pygi> looksaus: me? me what this time? =P Nah, I haven't tried skolelinux, I am just talking about people that I know they are experts in that area, and they say it's not good
[11:51] <highvoltage> besides that, skolelinux is OK, I think.
[11:51] <Pygi> looksaus: anyway, I never contributed to that skolelinux, and I did to edubuntu ^_^
[11:51] <looksaus> k, thought you were speaking of own experience, thx Pygi
[11:51] <Pygi> yw ;)
[11:52] <ogra> Pygi, there is a difference :)
[11:52] <Pygi> funny thing about "skole" is that it means "schools" on my language (altought first letter is different, but english doesn't have that letter)
[11:52] <ogra> with skole you can run a complete munucipality or a complete university ...
[11:53] <Pygi> yes, yes, I know ^_^
[11:53] <ogra> thats far from what we do out of the box yet ...
[11:53] <Pygi> ogra: at least for now ^_^
[11:53] <highvoltage> ogra: do you know if skolelinuz uses debian meukow ltsp, or the tarball from ltsp.org?
[11:53] <ogra> yep
[11:53] <Pygi> notice the "at least for now" bit :)
[11:54] <ogra> highvoltage, skloe uses our ltsp with some debian specific modifications, older kernel, no initramfs and some glue
[11:54] <highvoltage> in Afrikaans, "skool" = "school" and "skole" = "schools", so skolelinux literally means "Schools Linux"
[11:54] <ogra> yep
[11:54] <looksaus> highvoltage, spreek jy Afrikaans?
[11:54] <highvoltage> ogra: 2.4 kernel? does that mean thay have swap over NFS?
[11:54] <highvoltage> looksaus: ja
[11:55] <ogra> highvoltage, nope, 2.6 but sarge is using 2.6.8 
[11:55] <ogra> and etch is still far from being released
[11:56] <ogra> skole has the big problem that they are no part of debian and have to modify the released distro
[11:56] <ogra> so they *have* to be outdated,m since they have to implement their stuff on top 
[11:57] <highvoltage> hmmm.. that's sucky.
[11:57] <ogra> we might be slower in achieving all the stuff they have implemented, but in the end we'll just release with ubuntu ...
[11:57] <looksaus> ogra, though you can probably dist-upgrade skolelinux to a Debian release without too much probs, right?
[11:57] <ogra> i think in 1-2 releases we're on par ...
[11:58] <highvoltage> do you think by then they'll consider using an ubuntu base?
[11:58] <ogra> looksaus, no idea, sorry ... it might break the onfig or it might not ...
[11:58] <highvoltage> it would certainly make things easier for them.
[11:58] <highvoltage> looksaus: is jy belgies?
[11:58] <looksaus> ogra, they seem to be Debian proper with a few custom things
[11:58] <ogra> highvoltage, i'd hope so :)
[11:58] <looksaus> highvoltage, ja
[11:58] <highvoltage> :)
[11:59] <looksaus> highvoltage, ek het "Die klein prinsie" gelees in Afrikaans
[11:59] <ogra> looksaus, they put their changes on top of a debian system with scripts changing the config ... 
[11:59] <ogra> i have no idea how that works on upgrades, but it might fail badly
[12:03] <Pygi> welcome jane_
[12:09] <Sameh> hi
[12:11] <highvoltage> ogra: if i have an ltsp server on the internet, that has some passwordless users, with sshd listening on a strange port, with passwordless logins disabled from the ssh side, should it be safe?
[12:13] <looksaus> highvoltage, you mean with key based auth?
[12:13] <ogra> at least the passwordless users wont be able to log in
[12:13] <highvoltage> yeah
[12:14] <JaneW> Pygi: just the daily ADSL line reset
[12:14] <looksaus> is there a "competition" document on edubuntu versus skolelinux versus debian proper plus ltsp somewhere?
[12:15] <ogra> nope
[12:16] <ogra> +i'll write a comparison of the two ltsp implementations for the release, but we dont "compete" with skole, so i wont write such a doc :)
[12:16] <looksaus> ogra, competition doesn't need to be hostile, right
[12:16] <ogra> (petter reinholdsen (skole lead dev) is one of my best contributors to ltsp :) )
[12:16] <looksaus> call it comparison
[12:16] <looksaus> if you want
[12:17] <ogra> if you research skole vs edubuntu, feel free to make a wikipage with your findings :)
[12:17] <jsgotangco> the skole people give very good suggestions regarding edubuntu
[12:17] <jsgotangco> they even wanted to contribute the driftwood book and make it edubuntu compatible
[12:17] <ogra> but note that our target for now were rather k12ltsp users ... 
[12:17] <looksaus> it was already clear to me that there is healthy collaboration
[12:18] <ogra> i think they might consider us as a base one day, but we're currently lacking theor enterprise features ...
[12:19] <jsgotangco> hmm
[12:19] <jsgotangco> dumb question
[12:19] <looksaus> skolelinux seems to have too small a developer base to build my (small) school network business upon
[12:19] <jsgotangco> does the 6.06 5 years on the server also apply to us ogra?
[12:19] <jsgotangco> looksaus: edubuntu has smaller i'd say 
[12:19] <spacey> yup
[12:20] <ogra> not really sure 
[12:21] <jsgotangco> yeah
[12:21] <ogra> because our server (ltsp) is hard depending on the desktop 
[12:21] <looksaus> looks like 3 years will be enough then...
[12:30] <MornHyland> morning
[12:30] <ogra> hi
[12:30] <MornHyland> how goes?
[12:30] <ogra> busy :)
[12:30] <MornHyland> flight 6 is out
[12:31] <MornHyland> cool
[12:31] <MornHyland> I am thinking of replacing one of the servers here in the house with edubuntu
[12:31] <spacey> bah scribus doesn't handle .svg
[12:32] <MornHyland> I am a programmer of 20 years experience who is finally in college getting my degree in math, with a focus on education, I am hoping to make a project out of doing some work with edubuntu this summer
[12:33] <spacey> MornHyland: thats cool :)
[12:33] <spacey> and abiword doesn't support svg either :/
[12:33] <MornHyland> spacey: hopefully the blonde girl can do something useful
[12:34] <MornHyland> It's been a while since I did anything useful in the linux world
[12:34] <spacey> :)
[12:34] <MornHyland> time to make sure people don't forget me
[12:34] <spacey> don't worry
[12:34] <spacey> i'm sure you can :)
[12:34] <MornHyland> Though I may focus on using mono more than C/C++
[12:35] <ogra> MornHyland, by the looks of it, it seems implementing .svg support in abiword and scribus would win you a friend *g*
[12:35] <spacey> oh abiword does
[12:35] <spacey> :P
[12:36] <spacey> MornHyland: what be really cool is some decent educational applications :)
[12:36] <MornHyland> spacey: educational packages is where I will be looking
[12:36] <ogra> MornHyland, look like we'll very likely have f-spot in the default install in the october release, that would pull mono into the default install so apps in mono would be fine for us :)
[12:37] <jsgotangco> woohoo
[12:37] <MornHyland> My contributions in the past were to maintain the postgresql odbc driver a long time ago, and stuff like adding virtual serial port support to dosemu
[12:37] <ogra> nice ! 
[12:38] <MornHyland> Now I really want to deal more with educational software, maybe get the uni to give me some credit for developing that sort of thing
[12:42] <jsgotangco> brb
[12:42] <MornHyland> That is great to hear about the mono integration
[12:42] <MornHyland> what does 'f-spot' mean, sorry I am not familiar with the term
[12:51] <MornHyland> I'd like to see my tablet oriented apps for linux, but doubt I am the one to code them (grin)
[12:54] <MornHyland> I personally think that tablets will be the way to go in the classroom
[12:55] <MornHyland> also integration with captioning services in the classroom for deaf and hard of hearing students
[12:56] <ogra> oh, you should talk to kjcole then (once he's around), he works in a school for deaf people
[12:56] <ogra> yippiee !!! 
[12:56] <MornHyland> ogra: do you know which oone?
[12:56] <ogra> we are allowed to get rid of the darn "server" option on the CD :)
[12:56] <MornHyland> ogra: you seem happy this morning...
[12:57] <MornHyland> I never tried that option, what did it really do?
[12:57] <ogra> MornHyland, sorry, no, anywhere in the us eastcoast area
[12:57] <ogra> install a minimal system 
[12:57] <MornHyland> ogra: I'm from the northeast, near Clarke School (though I didn't go there)
[12:57] <ogra> the name was always a probelm, since we default to a server install
[12:58] <ogra> so people saw "server", installed that and wondered why theor ltsp (which needs a desktop installed) didnt work
[12:58] <MornHyland> ah
[12:58] <MornHyland> makes sense
[12:58] <ogra> it caused a lot of confusion ... i'm fighting since 6 months with sabdfl to get rid of it ...
[12:59] <ogra> or to rename it to "minimal"
[01:00] <MornHyland> glad you made progress
[01:00] <ogra> yep, me too
[01:01] <ogra> will make a lot of things easier
[01:01] <MornHyland> I really like the way the latest beta's are looking
[01:01] <ogra> thanks :)
[01:01] <MornHyland> and the fact that SD cards finally work is really nice
[01:01] <ogra> thats inherite from ubuntu :)
[01:02] <MornHyland> I've actually got edubuntu on an older 600Mhz laptop and it runs great
[01:02] <ogra> cool :)
[01:03] <MornHyland> I will put a small install on the newer tablet to use it there as well when time permits
[01:04] <MornHyland> for class though I still need windows for taking notes on the tablet
[01:04] <MornHyland> Wacom support is still a little 'flakey' at this point
[01:05] <ogra> if you have HW probs with it, i'm sure mjg59 would like to hear about it in #ubuntu-devel
[01:05] <ogra> (with the tablet pc, not the wacom)
[01:05] <MornHyland> The tablet uses wacom, but I understand
[01:05] <ogra> oh, i didnt know ...
[01:05] <MornHyland> I have a toshiba r15
[01:05] <ogra> ah
[01:06] <ogra> i never had such HW in my hands ...
[01:06] <ogra> my domain are thin clients :)
[01:06] <MornHyland> I needed something I could easily carry all of my notebooks in
[01:06] <MornHyland> and there is a windows application called GoBinder that does the job nicely
[01:07] <MornHyland> I have all the notes for every class I've ever taken in one application
[01:07] <MornHyland> handwritten
[01:07] <MornHyland> and searchable
[01:16] <looksaus> ogra, what is the most budget friendly new thin client you know of?
[01:16] <ogra> see disklessworkstations.com
[01:16] <looksaus> (think x86 pxe bootable no flash)
[01:16] <ogra> (you fund ltsp with buying there as well)
[01:17] <MornHyland> I wonder if I could ressurect the tuxscreen as a thin client to edubuntu
[01:17] <looksaus> ogra, I'm sorry to say that is not really an option for me
[01:17] <ogra> oh ? 
[01:17] <ogra> i dont know any cheaper offers ...
[01:18] <ogra> at least for new thin client HW
[01:18] <MornHyland> has anyone worked with the tuxscreens?
[01:18] <ogra> and they are tested and proven to work as well ...
[01:18] <ogra> nope, whats tuxscreen ?
[01:19] <MornHyland> www.tuxscreen.net
[01:19] <MornHyland> It would be even better if I could get the tux screen to do tty
[01:20] <ogra> we have no arm kernel around :/
[01:20] <ogra> (yet)
[01:21] <MornHyland> there was a small kernel for it a while back, but the project seemed to disappear
[07:11] <MEagain> http://youtube.com/watch?v=kRJXLGSQ5i0
[07:12] <MEagain> so boring I figured you all could use a video :P
[08:26] <raekism> Hi all, Good concept of Edubuntu. My 6 yr old loves it. 
[08:26] <ogra> :)
[08:27] <raekism> I just built her a machine, having a hard time installing Edubuntu over Ubuntu. I keep getting a bootstrap loader error. 
[08:30] <ogra> how did you try to install edubuntu over ubuntu ? 
[08:31] <HedgeMage> hi Pygi 
[08:32] <HedgeMage> :)
[08:33] <Pygi> ogra: you'll (and others) get new layout today
[08:34] <Pygi> I suggest meeting at thursday, 9:00 UTC
[08:34] <Pygi> anyway, will send in mail :)
[08:34] <raekism> ogra I installed it fresh
[08:34] <raekism> formatted the part. and ran the install 
[08:35] <ogra> Pygi, thursday morning is bad, we'll have dapper development meeting around that time 
[08:35] <Pygi> ogra: k, one day later then?
[08:35] <ogra> raekism, both have been tha same release ? 
[08:35] <ogra> Pygi, or in the afternoon
[08:35] <Pygi> ogra: I can't free afternoon :-/
[08:36] <ogra> the americans wont have time in the moring ... its in the middle of the night for tham
[08:36] <ogra> *them
[08:36] <Pygi> ogra: buh, it's private meeting, remember? :P
[08:36] <ogra> what ?
[08:37] <ogra> we dont do private meetings
[08:37] <ogra> at least not for community work ...
[08:37] <Pygi> hm, agreed, but it was told that only 3-4 of us will work on that because the meeting was a failure? :--/
[08:38] <ogra> HedgeMage, the cookbook
[08:38] <Pygi> HedgeMage: guess what meeting failed =P
[08:38] <HedgeMage> ahh gotcha
[08:38] <Pygi> ogra: bah, so public meeting?
[08:38] <HedgeMage> Pygi: it could have been worse... most IRC-held meetings aren't that civil :P  (trust me, I've gotten netted to handle a few when they didn't bother to have chanops present)
[08:39] <ogra> Pygi, all meetings we do are public and open for everyone to join in
[08:39] <Pygi> ogra: will do then ^_^
[08:39] <raekism> Yes they are both the 5.10 release
[08:39] <ogra> i saw the logs briefly, i found nothing wrong with it ...
[08:39] <HedgeMage> ogra: Pygi is just disappointed with how much got done, I think.
[08:39] <ogra> raekism, then you could have achieved it a lot easier ;)
[08:40] <raekism> how? upgrade!? 
[08:40] <raekism> installed on it
[08:40] <raekism> ?
[08:40] <ogra> HedgeMage, i stopped being dissapointed about cookbook stuff and i'd suggest everyone to not take it too serious, we're trying to get it written since nearly a year
[08:40] <HedgeMage> ogra: wow long time.
[08:40] <ogra> raekism, sudo apt-get install edubuntu-desktop
[08:41] <raekism> ouch!
[08:41] <ogra> HedgeMage, we had various people taking the task and dropping it again
[08:41] <raekism> Can you do this using the KDE version?
[08:41] <Pygi> ogra: agreed, but this time (since me and spacey took it over), I want it to be perfect ;)
[08:41] <Pygi> perfectionism or perfectionism =P
[08:41] <Burgwork> we in the doc team have a a bit of a revolving door with the authors of our primary docs too
[08:41] <Pygi> no other option :)
[08:41] <ogra> Pygi, i dont care if the first release of it is perfect as long as *something* exists
[08:42] <Pygi> ogra: will do, no worries ^_^
[08:42] <ogra> :)
[08:42] <HedgeMage> Well, if you have a meeting during my waking hours I'll show :P
[08:42] <HedgeMage> My offer of a few hours work is still open
[08:42] <Pygi> HedgeMage: 9:00 UTC fine for you? =P
[08:43] <HedgeMage> Pygi: that's 1am here... I can try but no promises
[08:44] <HedgeMage> Pygi: I have a toddler who wakes me up at 7am sharp, and a husband who leaves for work at 5am, costing me some sleep around then... sleep is precious
[08:44] <Pygi> bah, don't mention sleep to me pls :)
[08:44] <HedgeMage> (don't tell him he costs me sleep though I kinda fib about sleeping through it)
[08:49] <HedgeMage> not fib, exactly, more like spin ;)
[08:57] <HedgeMage> ttyl Pygi 
[09:15] <LaserJock> is there an agenda for the Edubuntu meeting?
[09:17] <ogra> LaserJock, we have a fixed agenda
[09:18] <LaserJock> ogra: is there a URL?
[09:18] <ogra> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuMeetingRecords#head-5e7f70a61c134d6b4d43164288d5c686da158155
[09:18] <ogra> sorry, took a moment
[09:18] <LaserJock> ah, weet
[09:18] <LaserJock> sweet even
[11:17] <spacey> meeting already scheduled?