[01:12] <Tonio_> Riddell: ping ?
[01:13] <robotgeek> hey Tonio_ 
[01:13] <Tonio_> robotgeek:  :)
[01:16] <Riddell> Tonio_: hi
[01:16] <Tonio_> Riddell: I'm checking for a softphone
[01:16] <Tonio_> Riddell: is the video component important for you ?
[01:17] <Riddell> Tonio_: we'll take what we're given
[01:17] <Tonio_> Riddell: if yes, I will concentrate on wengophon, but I also like the audio only Twinkle
[01:17] <Tonio_> Riddell: just found a debian package for wengophone for unstable
[01:17] <Tonio_> Riddell: checking if I can port it
[01:18] <robotgeek> kdesvn: Depends: kdesvn-kio-plugins (= 0.7.2-2) but it is not going to be installed 
[01:18] <robotgeek> bug filing time?
[01:21] <Riddell> kaffeine 0.8.1 is on revu
[01:24] <Tonio_> Riddell: I'm thinking about asking to kaffeine upstream an option to completly disable audio ripping function....
[01:24] <Riddell> Tonio_: why?
[01:24] <Tonio_> Riddell: honnestly, that's not of any use, and doubles with konqueror and kaudiocreator
[01:25] <Tonio_> Riddell: and because it not possible to use it with the ubuntu version, cause it depends liblame-dev -> multiverse
[01:26] <Tonio_> the result is a "encode" button that you can click and tells you "no encoders available", which is horrible
[01:26] <Tonio_> the problem is that you have all encoding buttons ad options even if you compile without that support, which isn't convenient
[01:26] <fabo> i disabled mp3 ncoding but keeped ogg vorbis encoder
[01:26] <Tonio_> appart from that, the video part is greatly improved
[01:27] <Tonio_> fabo: does it work ?
[01:27] <fabo> yes bu not on all cds
[01:27] <Tonio_> as far as I tested, the function doesn't work nicelly, and upstream didn't find the solution of my problem
[01:27] <Tonio_> fabo: when you see konqueror's ability in the ripping part.......
[01:27] <fabo> i don't know if it's caused by cds protection
[01:28] <robotgeek> Tonio_: are we changing something radically (which i need to document)
[01:28] <Tonio_> robotgeek: concerning ?
[01:28] <robotgeek> Tonio_: video ripping/encoding 
[01:29] <Tonio_> fabo: don't you thinkaudio ripping capability should by desabled by a configure option ?
[01:29] <robotgeek> there is isn't much in the desktop guide anyways about that
[01:29] <Tonio_> robotgeek: well, if it gets in, kaffeine latest version offers audio ripping capability, but that is limited to ogg, and doesn't work very nicelly
[01:29] <fabo> already exist, you can add --without-oggvorbis
[01:30] <Tonio_> fabo: yes, but you still get those "rip" and "encode" buttons :)
[01:30] <Tonio_> fabo: which are there but don't work
[01:30] <robotgeek> Tonio_: okay, i will pretend nothing changed :)
[01:30] <fabo> i'm not against disable ogg support, as you said we can find duplicate tools
[01:30] <Tonio_> robotgeek: hehe
[01:31] <Tonio_> fabo: I mean we have far better tools in kubuntu
[01:31] <Tonio_> fabo: the problem is that there are still those ugly buttons :)
[01:31] <Tonio_> fabo: fancy removing them ?
[01:31] <Tonio_> should be that hard to patch I assume
[01:31] <Tonio_> Riddell: any opinion concerning audio encoding added or removed ?
[01:32] <fabo> don't know, but christophe can do it if we ask him
[01:33] <Tonio_> fabo: the point is that those buttons should only appear when compiled with ripping capability
[01:33] <Riddell> Tonio_: since fabo has included ogg encoding we should keep it
[01:33] <Tonio_> Riddell: okay ;)
[01:34] <fabo> Tonio_: i'll send an email to upstream about that feature : disable encoding buttons if we didn't build them
[01:35] <fabo> at least could be available in next release :)
[01:35] <Tonio_> fabo: well, if we keep encoding capabilities, there is no need of that ;)
[01:36] <fabo> it's a non-sense to have these buttons anyway if one day, we disable them
[01:37] <fabo> je peux toujours demander a mange pas de pain :)
[01:37] <fabo> a bit of french ;)
[01:38] <Riddell> fabo: what does it mean?  other than the literal
[01:39] <fabo> i can always ask upstream, that doesn't hurt 
[01:40] <Tonio_> fabo: c'est vrai que pour un non francophone "ca ne mange pas de pain", c'est vraiment debile a comprendre :)
[01:40] <fabo> en plus j'ai galerer pour traduire ;)
[01:42] <Tonio_> fabo: ^^
[01:42] <Tonio_> Riddell: I think we should forget wengophone, it uses a big bunch of universe libs....... too late to work on that all :)
[01:43] <Riddell> Tonio_: well, I'm not expecting it in main just yet
[01:43] <Tonio_> Riddell: hum, okay ;)
[01:44] <Tonio_> Riddell: but really, the program structure is a pain....... they don't respect any standard path, that's a nightmare......
[01:44] <Tonio_> everything is in /usr/share/wengophone, even libs headers etc......
[01:44] <Tonio_> the wengophone ng (next generation) is clean, but really unstable
[01:45] <Riddell> ok, ignore wenga then :)
[03:23] <jjesse> robotgeek_zzz: what do you mean the answer is in the code?  do you just need a review of the section?
[03:58] <robotgeek> jjesse: sorry, the comment in the code are explanatory i think
[04:05] <jjesse> robotgeek: sorry still a little confused, i just ahve the deksotp guide in front of me and was trying to look at the hardware section i voluneteered to look into during the meeting, what does the comment in the code are explantory ?
[04:06] <robotgeek> jjesse: i meant the sectinfo and status="help"
[04:07] <jjesse> ah i understand now sorry tired :)
[04:07] <robotgeek> jjesse: no problem, lagging
[06:45] <robotgeek> Riddell: i see a "Add/Remove Programs" in K-Menu, is it going to be present in final release
[07:15] <robotgeek> mornfall: ping
[07:17] <robotgeek> mornfall: the add remove thing takes care of /etc/apt/sources.list as well? need to document
[07:17] <robotgeek> as in, does it enable the online repositories automagically?
[07:41] <mornfall> robotgeek: pong
[07:41] <mornfall> robotgeek: not really -- it uses the default one
[07:42] <mornfall> so you still need to enable universe and all
[07:42] <robotgeek> mornfall: what does the Show Unspported checkbox do?
[07:42] <mornfall> hmm
[07:42] <mornfall> robotgeek: show things from universe, if it's enabled
[07:42] <robotgeek> mornfall: docuementing that will be trick
[07:45] <robotgeek> mornfall: i do realise that it is a frontend to adept, but there is no other way to add repositories other than from adept
[08:06] <mornfall> robotgeek: well, the basic problem is that getting this right is fairly nontrivial
[08:06] <mornfall> robotgeek: if i went the easy way and used sources.list.d, it would probably confuse users a bit -- it will be shown disabled in adept and still be there
[08:07] <robotgeek> mornfall: no, keep it the way it is. i have already made changes to the documentation :)
[08:07] <mornfall> robotgeek: (un)commenting universe in sources.list is fairly complicated too
[08:07] <mornfall> robotgeek: i'll probably tackle it after 2.0 :)
[08:08] <robotgeek> mornfall: heh, just worried about not misguiding people
[08:30] <robotgeek> mornfall: does it ask for cd to be inserted if cdrom repo is enabled, and the rest are disabled?
[08:38] <xuecan> mornfall: When I stratup Adept, it shows: Could not find mime type application/octet-stream, what can I do?
[08:39] <freeflying> mornfall: ping
[08:55] <mornfall> freeflying: pong
[08:56] <mornfall> robotgeek: i would hope so -- but trying it out would help :] 
[08:56] <freeflying> mornfall: noticed the above problem  by xuecan
[08:56] <mornfall> right
[08:56] <robotgeek> mornfall: problem is i have distupgraded all the way from breezy :)
[08:57] <mornfall> freeflying, xuecan: it's a known problem with a myriad of dupes
[08:57] <mornfall> i don't need to hear of every single instance :|
[08:57] <mornfall> robotgeek: like me, it's just hoary in my case
[08:58] <mornfall> the cdrom functionality is largely untested
[08:58] <xuecan> :-)
[08:58] <mornfall> since, umm, none of the testers actaully use it
[08:58] <robotgeek> mornfall: okay. thanks for that info
[09:50] <Pygi> Riddell: do you have time for a few quick questions?
[12:19] <hunger> Has somebody messed with the fonts again?
[12:27] <Tm_T> hunger: not me!
[12:31] <Riddell> robotgeek: yes
[04:23] <Riddell> KDE incoming https://launchpad.net/rosetta/imports?status=APPROVED&type=all
[04:23] <Tm_T> hum
[04:23] <Tm_T> aah, translations
[04:23] <Tm_T> good good good
[04:29] <robotgeek> Riddell: heh, so no more changes?
[04:32] <Riddell> robotgeek: string freeze is no until april 22nd (or then abouts)
[04:32] <Riddell> this is just rosetta importing KDE for the first time
[04:33] <robotgeek> Riddell: hmm, okay. better not change anything (by much) as doc string freeze is 6th
[04:34] <Riddell> wow, two days away :)
[04:34] <jjesse> yeah no more changes to adept :)
[04:34] <mornfall> hmm? :)
[04:34] <Riddell> robotgeek, jjesse: think kubuntu docs will be in a good shape in two days time?
[04:35] <jjesse> Riddell: if you would stop changing things they would be :)
[04:35] <robotgeek> heh, we are almost done. 
[04:35] <Riddell> jjesse: yeah, I have much the same feeling with kde espresso, it would be done a lot quicker if the gtk frontend didn't keep adding things :)
[04:37] <robotgeek> jjesse: i did not notice the add-remove programs until you mentioned it to me
[04:42] <jjesse> Riddell: agreed, hence no mention of add/remove programs in the chapter
[04:43] <Riddell> sorry guys, I should have pointed that out to you
[04:43] <jjesse> anything else on tap that we should now about to get into the docs?
[04:44] <robotgeek> jjesse: i added it already
[04:45] <Riddell> jjesse: well espresso of course but hard to write about that currently
[04:46] <jjesse> this is cool installing kubuntu on windows virtual server release 2
[04:47] <mornfall> jjesse: btw, how's adept docs? :)
[04:47] <jjesse> mornfall: if you would quit changing things they would be better :)  
[04:47] <mornfall> jjesse: i haven't changed anything for weeks now
[04:47] <jjesse> have to finish the kubuntu chapter for the official ubuntu book first then i can get it done 
[04:47] <mornfall> IIRC :)
[04:47] <jjesse> add/remove programs
[04:47] <mornfall> what's with it
[04:47] <jjesse> new to me
[04:47] <mornfall> the thing that changed was, umm, button shape
[04:47] <mornfall> that's about it
[04:51] <mornfall> jjesse: adept_installer was uploaded before end of february
[04:51] <jjesse> do changes to adept get updated first in debian and then move over to kubuntu slowly?  for example just saw the new add-remove programs 
[04:52] <mornfall> jjesse: 2006-02-20 12:03:31 was upload to dapper
[04:52] <mornfall> jjesse: it was announced in the following flight -- it wasn't on the k menu at that time (typo in .desktop file)
[04:58] <robotgeek> Riddell: any changes to make help more accessible? (desktop icon etc)
[04:59] <Riddell> robotgeek: it's in the top level of the k-menu and in about: page on konqueror
[05:00] <Riddell> there's no space for any more icons on kicker
[05:00] <Riddell> and desktop icons are barred :)
[05:00] <jjesse> i love that desktop icons are barred
[05:00] <robotgeek> Riddell: okay, cool
[05:00] <jjesse> plus you can get the kubuntu docs from konqi
[05:01] <robotgeek> i wonder if people can actually find the help
[05:01] <jjesse> robotgeek: when i frist started using kubuntu i found the help
[05:02] <robotgeek> jjesse: not you, but people like we saw in the video :)
[05:02] <robotgeek> jjesse: since you are able to use an irc client, you are not the target audience :)
[05:03] <hunger> Konqui can no longer handle html or so it claims!
[05:20] <kwwii> Riddell: can you point me to the Usplash colormapping info?
[05:22] <Riddell> kwwii: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Usplash/Artwork
[05:24] <kwwii> Riddell: thanks :-)
[05:26] <hunger> Riddell: I might end up having some time to help a bit starting next week.
[05:26] <Riddell> hunger: cool, what sort of stuff can you do?
[05:27] <hunger> Riddell: I'll find myself a nice bug to gnawl on I think.
[05:27] <hunger> Riddell: Somethi++ related... I must prepare for my new job;-)
[05:27] <hunger> Riddell: Something C++ related...
[05:28] <hunger> Strange keybiard layout on this windows box...
[05:28] <Riddell> hunger: fix qtparted!
[05:29] <fabo> Riddell: how the symlink is created ? or where can i find a log of the problem ?
[05:29] <hunger> Riddell: I'll try to look into that then:-)
[05:30] <hunger> But first I need to get all the data of this windows box and then I need to get kubuntu installed on it.
[05:30] <Riddell> 22:16 < sebas> Riddell: Uninstalling guidance obviously doesn't remove the link in Xsession startup to displayconfig-restore.
[05:30] <Riddell> 22:17 < sebas> So after removing guidance, X crashes at startup.
[05:30] <Riddell> 22:17 < Riddell> sebas: ouch, that's not good
[05:30] <Riddell> 22:17 < sebas> /etc/X11/Xsession.d/40guidance-displayconfig_restore: line 9: /usr/bin/displayconfig-restore: No such file or directory
[05:30] <jjesse> hunger: just use a virutal machine :)
[05:30] <hunger> jjesse: For what?
[05:31] <jjesse> hunger: in case you don't want to wipe that windows box
[05:31] <hunger> jjesse: I must wipe it: The computer will be returned and has my win license:-)
[05:31] <jjesse> ah
[05:31] <fabo> Riddell: ok, thanks
[05:32] <hunger> jjesse: Used to be my play-computer:-)
[05:32] <hunger> jjesse: And now that I got a new job my boss wants it beck... so I have to reinstall kubuntu (which is our default OS).
[05:32] <jjesse> hunger: that's cool that kubuntu is your default OS
[05:33] <hunger> jjesse: I'll probably end up on kubuntu in my new company again;-)
[05:34] <jjesse> hunger: i run kubuntu at work but often have to use windows.  i'm a newtork admin for a windows network
[05:35] <hunger> jjesse: Poor you!
[05:36] <hunger> jjesse: I finally got myself a job developing SW:-) Used to do consulting...
[05:36] <jjesse> hunger: why poor me, i enjoy it :)
[05:36] <hunger> jjesse: I hate having to use windows.
[05:45] <danimo> Riddell: ping?
[05:47] <Riddell> danimo: yo
[05:48] <danimo> Riddell: hi. I am running networkmanager now. it's awesome
[05:48] <Riddell> danimo: cool.  well thank Bille and the other suse dude mostly :)
[05:48] <Riddell> danimo: knetworkmanager?
[05:48] <danimo> Riddell: right, I already send 'em patches and suggestions
[05:49] <danimo> Riddell: we just need nm 0.6.2 :(
[05:49] <danimo> Riddell: yes
[05:49] <danimo> Riddell: because that one supports openvpn
[05:49] <Riddell> danimo: we have n-m 0.6.2
[05:49] <Riddell> it went into the archive yesterday or the day before
[05:49] <danimo> Riddell: we do? since when?
[05:50] <danimo> Riddell: cool, can we import network-manager-kde from no-ip.org then?
[05:50] <danimo> Riddell: (and update it to the version from kdereview while at it)
[05:50] <Riddell> danimo: network-manager-kde is also in the archive :)
[05:50] <danimo> Riddell: oh, wow, I should switch back to the uk server
[05:51] <Riddell> universe only at the moment
[05:51] <danimo> Riddell: that's totally fine with me
[05:57] <danimo> Riddell: what version of network-manager-kde is in universe?
[05:58] <Riddell> danimo: http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/universe/k/knetworkmanager/
[05:58] <Riddell> r5961
[05:58] <Riddell> it's the one the guy put on his blog
[05:59] <danimo> ok
[06:02] <danimo> Riddell: blog?
[06:03] <Riddell> http://blog.nouse.net/
[06:11] <danimo> Riddell: Riddell: ah, cool
[06:11] <danimo> Riddell: still I miss the vpn support for some reason
[06:12] <danimo> Riddell: do you know of the "offline mode" of knetworkmanager is supported?
[06:51] <robotgeek> Riddell: is the behaviour of konq profiles going to be these same as in breezy?
[06:57] <Riddell> robotgeek: how do you mean?
[06:57] <robotgeek> Riddell: tonio was talking about moving kde profiles to a new package, etc
[06:57] <Riddell> robotgeek: never heard of that
[06:58] <Riddell> robotgeek: the konqueror profile has some menu items put back, but it otherwise the same
[06:58] <robotgeek> Riddell: okay. i will copy over the How do I change Konqueror back to the default KDE profiles? from http://www.kubuntu.org/faq.php
[07:00] <Riddell> yeah, should still be right
[08:02] <Pygi> I want a way to have a language and locale attributes linked to the user in
[08:02] <Pygi> the user management
[08:02] <Pygi> each user should have it's own associated language & locales
[08:02] <Pygi> any idea how to do it? ^_^
[08:03] <Riddell> Pygi: each user can set their language in system settings
[08:03] <Riddell> but you can't set someone else's
[08:03] <Riddell> maybe that should be added to userconfig
[08:03] <Pygi> yup, that's what I am talking about
[08:04] <Pygi> Riddell: that shouldn't be too hard to do, right?
[08:08] <Riddell> Pygi: add it to the KubuntuFutureIdeas page
[08:09] <Pygi> Riddell: will do...so that won't be in for Dapper?  ^_^
[08:09] <Riddell> nicer would be if kdm supported selecting language on login
[08:09] <Pygi> yup, agreed
[08:09] <Riddell> Pygi: no, dapper is in feature freeee
[08:09] <Riddell> freeze
[08:10] <Pygi> thanks
[08:10] <robotgeek> http://doc.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/desktopguide/C/ch04s03.html can someone verify this for me? the digital camera section
[08:10] <pradeepto> Riddell: how do you tackle if shortcuts of two application tend to over write each other after installation?
[08:11] <pradeepto> Riddell: that happens in Dapper with - yakuake and kerry, both get activated by F12 ?
[08:11] <Tm_T> hum
[08:12] <pradeepto> So the second application when installed sort of disables the first one till we change the key binding.
[08:12] <Riddell> pradeepto: that is a problem we have not yet solved
[08:13] <pradeepto> Riddell: oke thats a known problemo right, so no need to file a bug?
[08:13] <Riddell> pradeepto: I think there's already one open for it
[08:13] <Pygi> Riddell: added, nice ^_^
[08:15] <pradeepto> Riddell: ok thanks
[08:15] <Riddell> robotgeek: I've no time, poke Pygi or pradeepto to look it over
[08:16] <Pygi> robotgeek: how may I help you? ^_^
[08:16] <robotgeek> Pygi: i don't own a digital camera, need you to tell me if the section on digital camera is correct http://doc.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/desktopguide/C/ch04s03.html
[08:17] <Pygi> robotgeek: seems fine...whats the issue?
[08:18] <robotgeek> Pygi: is that what happens? i have no clue :)
[08:18] <Pygi> robotgeek: yup, that's what happens =P
[08:18] <robotgeek> Pygi: great!
[08:19] <Pygi> I already thought it was something more urgent =P
[08:19] <pradeepto> Pygi: actually it is.
[08:19] <Pygi> pradeepto: what happened this time? =P
[08:20] <pradeepto> As robotgeek will tell you that April 6 is freeze date for kubuntu guide :)
[08:20] <Pygi> AHHHHHHHHHh
[08:20] <Pygi> that's why =P
[08:20] <pradeepto> So you just reviewed a chapter :)
[08:21] <jjesse> next you can write chapters :)
[08:22] <Riddell> jjesse: did you get the e-mail I bounced to you?
[08:22] <robotgeek> jjesse: svn up again :)
[08:22] <jjesse> which one Riddell? i got two one on fixing konqi help problem and the book
[08:22] <Pygi> jjesse: thanks, but I think I will skip for now... There are more serious issues that need to be adressed, and I still have that damn headache
[08:23] <jjesse> Pygi: grin i hope your headoache goes away
[08:23] <Pygi> jjesse: thank, I do as well =P
[08:24] <Riddell> jjesse: from Mario Guerra
[08:25] <jjesse> Riddell: must be on my home pc i can check later, unless you can resend it
[08:26] <Riddell> jjesse: where do I resend it to?
[08:26] <jjesse> Riddell: same address i can grab it before it downloads to my pc @ home
[08:27] <Pygi> pradeepto: you should have said earlier so I could review big parts of handbook
[08:27] <Riddell> bounced
[08:27] <pradeepto> Pygi: heh robotgeek is man you should talk to about this. I am n00b, just running around all the places :)
[08:27] <robotgeek> Pygi: you mean desktop guide?
[08:28] <Pygi> robotgeek: I don't know...whatever needs reviewing =P
[08:28] <Pygi> But my time is higly limited, especially at this moment :-/
[08:28] <robotgeek> Pygi: no problem, we are almost done :)
[08:28] <Pygi> robotgeek: ah,k...poke me for dapper+1 =P
[08:28] <Pygi> But like 5 months before =P
[08:29] <robotgeek> Pygi: heh, wont even start :)
[08:29] <Pygi> won't start what? bah... still ..I knew to know 5 month in advance if you want me to get time to review it :P
[08:30] <jjesse> Riddell: got that email and there isn't slow progress :)
[08:30] <Riddell> jjesse: yes, I'm wondering where he got that idea from
[08:31] <Pygi> s/knew/need
[08:31] <Riddell> jjesse: can I trust you to reply and bring him into the team?
[08:31] <jjesse> Riddell: yes of course, working on reply already :)
[08:59] <Pygi> robotgeek: I stand corrected...Lure = No response to pluging camera ... might be due to lack of drivers or somethin'
[08:59] <robotgeek> Pygi: i also added section about digikam, just in case 
[09:00] <Pygi> robotgeek: will look
[09:00] <Pygi> hm, nothing changed there or? =P
[09:01] <robotgeek> Pygi: well, it's upstream only. it only updates twice a a day
[09:01] <Pygi> robotgeek: lemme see pls? ^_^
[09:01] <robotgeek> Pygi: let me upload somewhere
[09:04] <robotgeek> Pygi: http://www.robotgeek.org/kubuntu/ch05s03.html
[09:04] <Pygi> robotgeek: thx
[09:04] <Pygi> robotgeek: nice, continue the good work ^_^
[09:04] <robotgeek> Pygi: thanks :)
[09:07] <jjesse> Riddell: email sent to mario
[09:07] <Pygi> jjesse: huh, what you sent to me? :) (joking) :)
[09:07] <jjesse> grin i'm glad someone still has a sense of humor :)
[09:07] <jjesse> Pygi: is your name mario?
[09:08] <Pygi> yes =P
[09:09] <Riddell> Pygi: and did you send an e-mail saying how slowly the kubuntu docs were going?
[09:10] <Pygi> Riddell: no =P
[09:10] <Riddell> Pygi: good good, just checking :)
[09:10] <Pygi> Well, I said I was joking =P
[09:10] <jjesse> quick everyone jump Pygi and beat him up :P
[09:10] <Riddell> now now, no call for violence
[09:11] <jjesse> ok i take back everything mean i said :)
[09:16] <jjesse> should kubuntu/kde automatically adjust for time changes (ie daylight savings, etc?)
[09:25] <Riddell> jjesse: yes
[09:26] <jjesse> hmmm it didn't 
[09:28] <Lure> jjesse: strange - it did here (CET)
[09:28] <Riddell> jjesse: the locales stuff has changed in dapper, possibly it's broken for your timezone
[09:35] <Lure> Riddell: seen https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KubuntuPowersave reports?
[09:35] <Lure> it looks that powersave is just better and no real regression
[09:36] <Lure> some smaller issues to fix before UVFe I think
[09:37] <robotgeek> Lure: now with ppc packages?
[09:37] <Lure> not yet :(
[09:38] <Lure> need volunteer to build it
[09:38] <robotgeek> Lure: i tried to get from mbeil's repo, but no avail
[09:38] <Lure> (also requests for amd64)
[09:38] <robotgeek> Lure: i can build it :)
[09:38] <robotgeek> raphink also, freeflying also
[09:39] <Lure> It looks like another powersaved release is around the corner (bugfixes) and that might be right time to request UVFe and push new stuff to universe
[09:39] <Lure> robotgeek: grab source from kubuntu.no-ip.org and then we can arrange to upload .deb
[09:40] <Lure> (I have ftp access Tonio gave me)
[09:40] <Lure> if we do some ppc testing before, even better
[09:40] <Lure> raphink was testing a while back and was not very successful
[09:41] <Lure> :-(
[10:00] <danimo> Riddell: is the "go offline" functionality in nm supposed to work with kmail?
[10:00] <danimo> Riddell: it does in suse afaik
[10:01] <Riddell> danimo: no idea, never used it
[10:01] <Riddell> possibly they patch kmail for it
[10:04] <kwwii> re
[10:09] <danimo_> Riddell: no, kmail has a dcop call for it
[10:09] <danimo_> Riddell: dcop kmail KMailIface stopNetworkJobs
[10:09] <danimo_> Riddell: and dcop kmail KMailIface resumeNetworkJobs
[10:09] <danimo_> Riddell: we just need to fire those when n-m sends the according events
[10:09] <Riddell> hmm, right
[10:09] <Riddell> well it should just work then
[10:09] <danimo_> Riddell: not sure how suses does it
[10:09] <danimo_> and I think at least kopete supports it, too
[10:10] <Riddell> if it's build into knetworkmanager
[10:10] <danimo_> not sure if knm emits dcop signals itself
[10:10] <danimo_> hmm, there is "connectAll" and "disconnectAll"
[10:11] <danimo_> not sure if you really want to connect every time you connect to a network
[10:11] <Riddell> there we go, we need to patch kded-networkstatus :)
[10:11] <danimo_> we do?
[10:11] <danimo_> Riddell: let's do it :)
[10:12] <Riddell> see the super sekret channel
[10:12] <danimo_> Riddell: it's worth it I reckon
[10:12] <Riddell> well, we need to find the patch first :)
[10:12] <Riddell> means digging through suse factory
[10:12] <danimo_> aye
[10:13] <kwwii> haha!
[10:14] <kwwii> me is going crazy from working on buttons
[10:14] <kwwii> I give up
[10:14] <Riddell> kwwii: what's the problem?
[10:14] <kwwii> I know now that I hate buttons
[10:14] <kwwii> dude, it is sooo hard to make something different that will still look good with the theme as it is
[10:15] <kwwii> or I can start messing around with different options to mix things, etc....nasty work
[10:15] <Riddell> well we can change the theme too if necessary
[10:15] <kwwii> well, I think I am pretty close to having something for everyone to hate :-)
[10:15] <kwwii> let me finish what I am doing and then we can discuss the future
[10:16] <kwwii> but for tonight I am about done with it
[10:16] <kwwii> something for tomorrow morning when my head is clear
[10:16] <danimo_> kwwii: what are you trying to do?
[10:16] <Riddell> danimo_: window decorations
[10:17] <danimo> ic
[10:17] <kwwii> danimo_: make new  buttons for the crystal-vista theme which do not look like vista but still look good with the rest
[10:17] <danimo> is that supposed to be the new default?
[10:17] <kwwii> not just "window decorations" but editing existing code by changing pixmaps and settings
[10:17] <Riddell> danimo: yes
[10:18] <Lure> kwwii: can you publish somethng already (even if still marked as "work in progress")?
[10:19] <danimo> _Sime: nope, the gamma sliders still won't work
[10:19] <danimo> what is guidiance?
[10:19] <danimo> fuck suse has a whole lot of patches
[10:19] <kwwii> Lure: I will have something to test tomorrow morning (or perhaps midday) even if everyone hates it :-)
[10:19] <_Sime> danimo: http://www.simonzone.com/software/guidance/#screenshots
[10:20] <kwwii> I have to export all the pics (the xcf file is ready) and that takes time and concentration
[10:20] <Lure> kwwii: not for test, just screenshot on wiki to get prepared... ;-)
[10:20] <kwwii> Lure: I would rather that everyone test it and say exactly what they do not like
[10:20] <Lure> kwwii: fine with me...
[10:20] <kwwii> it would help me to determine what is an "art" bug and what is an "implementation" bug
[10:21] <Lure> kwwii: I do not want to push on you....
[10:21] <kwwii> (although I strongly disagree with the idea of art bugs)
[10:21] <Lure> ;-)
[10:22] <kwwii> hehe, if I can make a screenshot of it then I bug Riddel to make a package out of it :-)
[10:22] <danimo> argl, there are so many patches in suse rpms that should go upstream
[10:22] <danimo> it's just sick
[10:24] <kwwii> I don't talk about suse anymore :-)
[10:24] <danimo> kwwii: right, I'll bug beineri next time
[10:24] <kwwii> YES! he needs something to keep him angry
[10:25] <kwwii> you should pop by suse and see the looks on everyones faces - it is refreshing for me
[10:25] <danimo> kwwii: well, that's beineri
[10:25] <danimo> kwwii: they asked for him so they got him
[10:25] <Lure> kwwii, danimo: you both worked for suse before?
[10:26] <danimo> Lure: kwwii did, I just happen to know the guy
[10:26] <kwwii> well, I worked for suse for almost 7 yeras
[10:26] <kwwii> years
[10:27] <Lure> kwwii: so you did suse KDE design? nice work, consitent and unique...
[10:28] <kwwii> Lure: I did all the kde stuff, all the (pre ximian days) gnome stuff, by choice, and lots more (marketing broschures, mouse pads, coffee cups, t-shirts, etc.)
[10:29] <Lure> nice to have you around for dapper... ;-)
[10:31] <kwwii> thanks! nice to be here :-)
[10:33] <danimo> Riddell: found the patch
[10:33] <danimo> Riddell: interested?
[10:33] <Riddell> danimo: top stuff
[10:33] <Riddell> danimo: sure, although I can't test it today
[10:34] <Riddell> if you need it super fast you'll need to fix the packages yourself
[10:34] <danimo> Riddell: I'll do, if you tell me where the packages end up when pulling them with apt-get source
[10:35] <Riddell> danimo: which package is it for?  kdelibs?
[10:35] <danimo> Riddell: generally: http://daniel.molkentin.de/networkstatus_glib_dbus.diff
[10:35] <danimo> Riddell: kdepim
[10:35] <danimo> Riddell: since for now it is kmail/kontact specific
[10:35] <Riddell> danimo: apt-get source kdepim
[10:35] <Riddell> apt-get build-dep kdepim
[10:35] <Riddell> apt-get install devscripts fakeroot 
[10:35] <Riddell> cd kdepim-<tab>
[10:36] <Riddell> put the patch into debian/patches/kubuntu_xx_ddd
[10:36] <Riddell> dch -i to add a new changelog entry
[10:36] <Riddell> debuild
[10:36] <Riddell> cd ..
[10:36] <Riddell> ls
[10:36] <Riddell> voila, new .debs
[10:36] <danimo> Riddell: cool
[10:36] <danimo> Riddell: I'll tell you once it works
[10:36] <danimo> Riddell: can I send you the changed source pkg?
[10:36] <Riddell> then debdiff <old>.dsc <new>.dsc and send me the patch
[10:36] <danimo> Riddell: or are you basically going to redo it?
[10:37] <danimo> ok, fine
[10:37] <apachelogger> Riddell: do you know a good example for howto package qmaked software?
[10:37] <Riddell> apachelogger: qt?
[10:37] <Riddell> apachelogger: you can't do it with cdbs
[10:37] <apachelogger> hm
[10:37] <Riddell> apachelogger: is speedcrunch also qmake maybe?
[10:38] <danimo> Riddell: yes
[10:38] <danimo> Riddell: but I thought it even was qt4
[10:40] <Riddell> we didn't upgrade to the qt4 speedcrunch
[10:40] <danimo> ah, ok
[10:40] <Riddell> they didn't want qt4 in main just for a small app
[10:40] <danimo> Riddell: it's not in main?
[10:40] <danimo> Riddell: why?
[10:40] <Riddell> danimo: it is in main, that's why we stuck with the old qt3 version for dapper
[10:41] <Riddell> oh, qt4 isn't in main yet, since nothing needs it
[10:41] <Riddell> definatly will be for dapper +1
[10:41] <danimo> ah, ok
[10:41] <danimo> Riddell: did you consider to take over suse's "remove arts" patches?
[10:42] <Riddell> danimo: I did then I a laughed for a while and considered better things
[10:42] <danimo> Riddell: why?
[10:42] <danimo> I haven't actually looked at the quality
[10:42] <Riddell> arts may be old but that's too big a deviation from KDE for me to want to support
[10:42] <danimo> but it was a huge relief
[10:42] <danimo> Riddell: I see your point, though
[10:42] <danimo> Riddell: especially when it needs to be maintained for the next what? 5 years?
[10:43] <Riddell> danimo: does suse still do that?
[10:43] <toma> Riddell: fyi, my cups problem was resolved, It pointed to a host which was not available and printing was blocked by that. editing the rc file, resolved that and i'm happily printing again with current dapper.
[10:43] <danimo> Riddell: yes
[10:43] <Riddell> beineri was complaining about it when he started working for them
[10:43] <danimo> Riddell: with pride apperantly
[10:43] <danimo> someone must have convinced him
[10:43] <danimo> Riddell: it's still in factory
[10:43] <Riddell> toma: interesting.  why did it point to an unavailable host?
[10:45] <toma> Riddell: i configured it that way when the host was reachable
[10:45] <toma> that host was renamed later
[10:46] <danimo> Riddell: it automatically picks up all patches in debian/patches?
[10:49] <toma> Riddell: appearantly there is a very long timeout, when the host is reachable but is not responding to that port (and blocking the host app with it).
[10:50] <Riddell> danimo: yes
[10:50] <danimo> Riddell: ok, cool
[10:54] <Lure> danimo: you want to make kmail n-m connection aware (if I read the patch correctly)?
[10:54] <danimo> Lure: yepp
[10:54] <Lure> great
[10:55] <Lure> btw, is any way to configure multiple groups of account in kmail for different networks?
[10:55] <Lure> I have IMAP in company (but firewall prevents POP) and POP at home (but no IMAP)
[10:56] <danimo> Lure: uhm, good question. waitaminute
[10:56] <danimo> Lure: there is no "connection profile"
[10:56] <Lure> therefore I would need some kind of two profiles and enable/disable one depending on network
[10:56] <Lure> or at least manually
[10:56] <danimo> but let's check if we can hack around that
[10:56] <danimo> argl, why do the dbus includes have different names on debian?
[10:57] <Lure> danimo: really? should not have...
[10:57] <danimo> Riddell: the patch add dependencies to dbus and dbus-qt. where do I add those?
[10:57] <Lure> unless we have older dbus....
[10:57] <danimo> /home/danimo/src/kubuntu-build/kdepim-3.5.2/./networkstatus/networkstatus.h:28:29: error: dbus/connection.h: No such file or directory
[10:57] <danimo> In file included from kded_networkstatus_la.all_cpp.cpp:2:
[10:57] <danimo> /home/danimo/src/kubuntu-build/kdepim-3.5.2/./networkstatus/networkstatus.cpp:36:23: error: dbus/dbus.h: No such file or directory
[10:57] <danimo> /home/danimo/src/kubuntu-build/kdepim-3.5.2/./networkstatus/networkstatus.cpp:37:26: error: dbus/dbus-qt.h: No such file or directory
[10:57] <danimo> I had the same when I tried to build knm from sources
[10:58] <kwwii> Riddell: is there a newer install CD for dapper/ppc that I can download?
[10:58] <Lure> apt-get build-dep kdepim (will get all required packages to build)
[10:58] <Lure> do it for knm and you will probably have enought also for kdepim (wuth dbus)
[10:59] <danimo> oha, I missed one include
[10:59] <danimo> err, one package
[10:59] <danimo> libdbus-qt-1-dev
[10:59] <danimo> I need to add that one to kdepims build-deps
[10:59] <Lure> yep
[10:59] <danimo> Lure: where/how does debian specify those?
[11:00] <danimo> just hacking up debian/control?
[11:00] <Riddell> kwwii: than what?  flight 6 was out last friday
[11:00] <Riddell> danimo: add them as Build-Depends in debian/control
[11:00] <Lure> debian/control
[11:01] <danimo> manually?
[11:01] <kwwii> Riddell: cool, so flight6 is what I want, thanks :-)
[11:01] <Lure> yep - debuild packages whole debian dir in diff.gz 
[11:01] <Riddell> danimo: libdbus-qt-1-dev
[11:02] <Riddell> danimo: add libdbus-qt-1-dev as a build depend, and dbus as a Depend of whichever package it is part of
[11:02] <Riddell> danimo: which package is it part of?
[11:02] <danimo> ok
[11:02] <danimo> not sure yet
[11:02] <Riddell> danimo: use debuild -nc  to restart the build without cleaning stuff already built
[11:04] <kwwii> Riddell: will the reinstall wipe my home dir?
[11:06] <Riddell> kwwii: you can tell it not to reformat the drive and it should keep what's already there
[11:06] <Riddell> kwwii: take a backup though
[11:06] <kwwii> cool, will do that, thanks
[11:06] <Riddell> kwwii: and preferably just keep /home on a different partition
[11:06] <danimo> dbus/connection.h: No such file or directory
[11:06] <kwwii> see you tomorrow, downloading, burning and sleeping
[11:06] <kwwii> bye all
[11:06] <Riddell> kwwii: you can just upgrade from your current install easily enough too
[11:06] <danimo> bye kwwii
[11:06] <kwwii> Riddell: how?
[11:07] <Riddell> kwwii: use adept updater
[11:07] <kwwii> adept died the last time I tried to update
[11:07] <Riddell> ah
[11:07] <Riddell> kwwii: sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get dist-upgrade  is the alternative
[11:09] <kwwii> wow, it seems my new DSL connection is already active
[11:09] <kwwii> downloading a CD and upgrading a buttload of packages at the same time
[11:10] <danimo> Riddell: there are quite some suseish patches in the configure-script
[11:11] <danimo> Riddell: do you know configure.in.in syntax?
[11:13] <Riddell> danimo: I try not to, can't you just add  -I/usr/include/dbus-1.0/ to the relevant Makefile.am ?
[11:14] <danimo> Riddell: why though?
[11:14] <danimo> Riddell: it doesn't have the libs either
[11:14] <danimo> so it would probably fail at linktime then
[11:14] <Riddell> danimo: what's it missing?
[11:14] <danimo> they commented out:
[11:15] <danimo>   AC_SUBST(DBUS_INCS)
[11:15] <danimo>   AC_SUBST(DBUS_LIBS)
[11:17] <Lure> danimo: same in knm, but it still builds...
[11:17] <danimo> odd
[11:17] <danimo> doesn't here
[11:18] <Lure> but there is bunch of other stuff
[11:18] <Lure> this is conf.in.in from knm: http://kubuntu.pastebin.com/640878
[11:19] <Lure> AC_CHECK_HEADER([dbus/connection.h] ,,[AC_MSG_ERROR([You need D-BUS/Qt3 bindings] )] )
[11:19] <Lure> this probably does it
[11:20] <apachelogger> kdocker hates me :|
[11:20] <danimo> does debians buildsystem run make -f Makefile.cvs?
[11:20] <danimo> otherwise changes in configure.in.in's would never take effect
[11:21] <Lure> if I remeber correctly, tonio did that on original package before applying debian diff
[11:22] <apachelogger> danimo: at least it doesn't here ;-)
[11:23] <Riddell> danimo: no
[11:23] <Riddell> danimo: run  make -f debian/rules buildprep
[11:26] <danimo> Riddell: Riddell: are package builder obliged to do this before building?
[11:27] <Riddell> danimo: if you make changes to Makefile.am or configure.in.in yes
[11:27] <Riddell> sorry, I should have said, I forgot that adding that patch will need it to be run
[11:28] <danimo> Lure: ok, I added that check
[11:28] <danimo> Lure: now I am really curious
[11:38] <danimo> Lure, Riddell: eek, still no go
[11:39] <Lure> do you have /usr/include/dbus-1.0/dbus/connection.h
[11:39] <Lure> and what error do you get - still missing include?
[11:42] <danimo> yes
[11:42] <danimo>  /home/danimo/src/kubuntu-build/kdepim-3.5.2/./networkstatus/networkstatus.h:28:29: error: dbus/connection.h: No such file or directory
[11:43] <Lure> and did configure report anything on dbus?
[11:43] <danimo> Lure: where does it put config.log to?
[11:43] <danimo> ah, got it
[11:44] <danimo> configure:47818: checking PACKAGE_CFLAGS
[11:44] <danimo> configure:47821: result: -DDBUS_API_SUBJECT_TO_CHANGE -I/usr/include/dbus-1.0 -I/usr/lib/dbus-1.0/include -I/usr/include/hal
[11:44] <danimo> odd
[11:44] <Lure> odd indeed
[11:44] <danimo> configure:48017: checking for dbus/connection.h
[11:44] <danimo> configure:48024: result: yes
[11:44] <danimo> probably it doesn't use that include properly
[11:45] <danimo> Lure: grml, looks like the original author had less clue about auto* than I do
[11:46] <Lure> looks like
[11:46] <danimo> I figured the problem
[11:46] <danimo> hopefully
[11:46] <danimo> I'll be so glad by the time cmake is the default
[11:48] <danimo> hmm
[11:48] <danimo> Lure: ok, I take that one back
[11:55] <danimo> bye Lure