[12:02] <jmg> whats sabdfl's email address? mark@canonical.com?
[12:04] <Seveas> jmg, that one would work
[12:04] <Seveas> jmg, but his inbox is very crowded
[12:05] <Seveas> maybe someone else can help?
[12:07] <jmg> Seveas: some canonical corp guy?
[12:08] <Seveas> jmg, depending on what the issue is, several others can be able to help you. Would you mind telling why you want to contact mark?
[12:08] <jmg> business partnership?
[12:08] <jmg> is that acceptable?
[12:09] <Seveas> hmm - i forgot who did that, sec.
[12:09] <jmg> thanks
[12:09] <Seveas> jmg, seen this? http://www.ubuntu.com/partners/become - it suggests partners@ubuntu.com
[12:09] <jmg> Seveas: thanks
[12:10] <Seveas> np
[12:10] <jmg> Seveas: and yes
[12:10] <jmg> Seveas: but i wanted to talk to sabdfl, just hoping he was online i guess
[12:10] <Seveas> hehe - well not right now and he'll be travelling tomorrow
[12:11] <Seveas> so partners@ may be your best bet at getting a response 
[12:15] <jmg> Seveas: Thanks again!
[12:20] <ajmitch> jmg: and if you're looking at hiring NZ developers.. ;)
[12:24] <jmg> ajmitch: maybe in 6 months :)
[01:01] <lifeless> good morning!
[01:01] <_ion> Good night.
[01:50] <jono> hi all
[01:51] <jono> is anyone actively looking into https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/gst-plugins/+bug/34597 ?
[01:51] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 34597 in gst-plugins gstreamer-alsa "Cannot record using alsa + gstreamer framework" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  
[01:51] <jono> ahh heh
[01:54] <sladen> not I said the pussy cat in the corner
[02:03] <jono> heys sladen
[02:25] <lifeless> whens the next TB meeting ?
[02:26] <nictuku> YYYY-mm-dd at HHMMUTC :-)
[03:02] <OgMaciel> anyone from Boston going to Linux World tomorrow?
[05:50] <trappist> how can I see all bugs ever reported on a given package in malone?  clicking "all bugs ever reported" only shows open bugs.
[06:10] <LaserJock> trappist: try https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/<packagename>/+bugs-advanced-search
[06:11] <fabbione> morning guys
[06:13] <trappist> LaserJock: yeah, found that.  guess that's a bug on malone.
[06:36] <Mithrandir> mdke_: bug 28512; this is a bug in installation-guide.  Mainpackage is the first package in the control file and debhelper is behaving according to spec here.
[06:36] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 28512 in installation-guide "unexpected debhelper behavior renders postinst inoperative" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/28512
[07:01] <whiprush> jdub: ping
[07:04] <whiprush> jdub: I keep checking my feed, no idea why it's blowing up planet ubuntu, so if it's too painful remove me temporarily please.
[07:43] <zakame> hi all
[07:56] <dholbach> good morning
[08:00] <highvoltage> morning
[08:06] <TheMuso> Hey dholbach.
[08:07] <highvoltage> hi TheMuso 
[08:07] <dholbach> hey TheMuso
[08:07] <jsgotangco> fabbione: i just forgot about the server test - yes our server is god personified as a distribution cheers
[08:09] <KaiL> hmm, why doesn't install nvidia-glx also enable it?
[08:12] <fabbione> jsgotangco: there is another test you can do :)
[08:12] <fabbione> jsgotangco: at the install prompt select lamp
[08:12] <fabbione> that should auto-install apache+mysql+php5
[08:13] <jsgotangco> fabbione: i actually installed lamp
[08:13] <jsgotangco> it works
[08:13] <fabbione> perfect
[08:13] <fabbione> great
[08:14] <jsgotangco> my co worker fainted when she saw mysql5 and php5 working ot of the box
[08:15] <fabbione> eheh
[08:16] <infinity> jsgotangco: So, she's easily impressed?
[08:16] <infinity> jsgotangco: I'll happily take credit anyway.
[08:16] <jsgotangco> it doesn't have modrewrite and mod python but easily remedied
[08:16] <jsgotangco> not all lamp installations need it anyway
[08:16] <infinity> rewrite is include, just not enabled by default.
[08:17] <dholbach> heya infinity
[08:17] <infinity> (because rewrite is a resource hog, and most people who thing they need it don't, so I prefer not to encourage it)
[08:17] <infinity> s/thing/think/
[08:17] <janimo> infinity: if you could find time to spin a xubuntu live I'd appreciate it :)
[08:17] <fabbione> infinity: you better get these credits :) you deserve them
[08:18] <infinity> KaiL: I can't really auto-enable nvidia-glx or fglrx without first tearing some holes in dexconf, so I can re-seed it in filthy ways in my postinsts.  It was on my TODO list, but not particularly high up there.
[08:18] <KaiL> infinity, ah, ok
[08:19] <KaiL> I might have found a card, on which the "nv"-driver fails... GeForce 6700 XT (some Medion-special-thing)
[08:19] <infinity> KaiL: Now that all the drivers are modular, it makes sense to rethink the thing a bit anyway, so it may not happen until dapper+1.
[08:19] <fabbione> KaiL: also because auto-enabling means changing a config file that the user might not want changed
[08:20] <infinity> KaiL: Things like "well, with modular drivers, does that mean that if you explicitly install one, you want it to become the default?"
[08:20] <HrdwrBoB> most likely yes
[08:20] <janimo> jdub, is the xubuntu flight 6 announce to be sent to u-announce?
[08:20] <HrdwrBoB> but potentially no
[08:20] <infinity> fabbione: Well, hence why I was going to do it via dexconf, so I could pre-seed the driver (and some module enable/disable action), and only have the config regenerated if it was auto-generated in the first place.
[08:21] <KaiL> Xorg and it's hardware detection is really a problem :(
[08:21] <HrdwrBoB> but if 'no' you would now what you're doing
[08:21] <infinity> fabbione: But it's sketchy at best, and not something I've bothere to pout any real thought into.
[08:21] <fabbione> infinity: nvidia-thingy enable does that
[08:21] <fabbione> it preseed debconf -> dexconf and regenerate the config
[08:21] <KaiL> the best thing whould be, if udev could re-set the driver to the best one on every boot...
[08:21] <infinity> KaiL: In the case of nvidia/nv or fglrx/radeon, Xorg autodetection won't fix anything anyway, cause you're still talking about having two drivers to drive the same card.
[08:22] <KaiL> but would help at least against the "no X at all"-Problem, if you change the card
[08:23] <infinity> fabbione: Oh, that's right, it DOES do it correctly now.  What it doesn't do (and the reason I wanted to muck with it) is disable modules that are incompatible with nvidia.
[08:23] <KaiL> the best would be, if Xorg itself would do an auto-detection, including fallbacks to vesa and vga
[08:23] <infinity> I think the world agrees with you, and it's been said many times before.
[08:24] <infinity> None of that produces working code, though.
[08:24] <fabbione> infinity: right, but actually.. it works perfectly fine here... even with these modules loaded
[08:24] <fabbione> infinity: and modules are preseedable
[08:24] <infinity> fabbione: Even accelerated?
[08:25] <fabbione> infinity: very easily
[08:25] <fabbione> infinity: i think so.. how can i check?
[08:25] <infinity> fabbione: If so, then nvidia has fixed that, and I don't give a shit anymore. :)
[08:25] <fabbione> it's not like i spend my day playing quake3
[08:25] <KaiL> which modules are that?
[08:25] <infinity> fabbione: I dunno, if you don't have any fancy 3D games around, just run glxgears and see if it seems appropriately smooth and silky and such.
[08:25] <infinity> (Very scientific, I know)
[08:26] <jsgotangco> glxgears come on
[08:26] <jsgotangco> hah
[08:26] <fabbione> infinity: glxgears crashes here due to the multi-multi-multi-head setup
[08:26] <jsgotangco> well for stats yeah
[08:26] <infinity> fabbione: Oh, special.
[08:26] <fabbione> infinity: yeah.
[08:26] <fabbione> infinity: well only in fullscreen
[08:26] <infinity> I'll have to re-test this whole mess on Zofia's machine soon then, before I put those bugs to rest.
[08:26] <fabbione> otherwise is smooth and soft
[08:26] <KaiL> fabbione, another big issue on Xorg - there are many usefull extentions, but many of them are incompatible to each other...
[08:27] <KaiL> Xinerama, DRI/GLX, RANDR, RENDER, COMPOSITE...
[08:27] <fabbione> KaiL: not all of them...
[08:27] <fabbione> i use Xinerama+dri/glx
[08:27] <fabbione> at least
[08:27] <fabbione> probably more
[08:27] <infinity> And RandR.
[08:27] <KaiL> yes, some work
[08:27] <infinity> Everyone uses RandR.l
[08:28] <infinity> Render and Composite are entirely dirver-dependant, and either work or don't.
[08:28] <KaiL> but Xinerama + Randr doesn't work (at least on i810)
[08:28] <infinity> KaiL: You mean, eg, using RandR to resize the individual Xinerama surfaces?
[08:28] <KaiL> yes
[08:28] <infinity> KaiL: I suspect that's more of a missing feature than an incompatibility.
[08:29] <KaiL> or that
[08:29] <infinity> I suspect no one cares because Xinerama is a broken and hideous spec that should just get eaten by the RandR engine over time anyway.
[08:29] <KaiL> ;)
[08:39] <mdke_> Mithrandir, ok, I guess I got the wrong bug? this is a bug on ubuntu-docs assigned to you. i'll dig out the number
[08:40] <mdke_> Mithrandir, bug #27906
[08:40] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 27906 in kubuntu-docs "Typo in kubuntu-docs" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/27906
[08:51] <jmg> is k3b hosed in current dapper
[08:51] <jmg> or is it the kernel + cdrecord?
[08:57] <sivang> good morning world
[08:57] <sivang> jmg: cdrecord worked fine last time I tried, what are the issues you're experiencing ?
[08:57] <Mithrandir> mdke_: no, it's the right bug.  mdz assigned it to me last night.
[08:58] <mdke_> Mithrandir, are you perhaps talking about a different bug?
[08:58] <mdke_> we may be at cross-purposes
[08:58] <Mithrandir> mdke_: I'm not talking about the kubuntu-bugs one, no.
[08:59] <mdke_> ok, I'm not sure I can help with installation-guide, but Ill give it my best shot, what's up?
[08:59] <Mithrandir> mdke_: but as you noted in the bug log, the docteam doesn't touch that package.  Do you know who does?
[09:00] <mdke_> Mithrandir, yes, Kamion 
[09:00] <Mithrandir> heh, 'k
[09:00] <Mithrandir> and thereby me, I presume.
[09:00] <mdke_> is he off?
[09:00] <Mithrandir> no, but I'm also part of the installer team
[09:01] <mdke_> oh right. Dude you're on all the teams
[09:03] <Mithrandir> heh :-)
[09:34] <Pygi> Seveas: around?
[09:42] <pitti> ajmitch: ping
[10:00] <janimo> infinity, ping
[10:02] <Kamion> Mithrandir: I've been thinking of reorganising the espresso source package
[10:03] <Kamion> Mithrandir: I'm increasingly fed up with having to create .debs out of everything and its wife in the installer, and I note that the partman source package already takes the approach of "automatically merge a load of other source packages into this one and rebuild them"
[10:03] <janimo> Kamion, thanks for the iso builds. Can yesterday's images be tagged as flight 6 so they have a permanent link?
[10:04] <janimo> they seem to be installable by a couple of accounts
[10:04] <Kamion> Mithrandir: what do you think of just fetching all the source packages for all the installer bits at espresso source package upload time, and moving all the espresso component bits into the main source package?
[10:04] <Kamion> janimo: it's very irregular for the very first build to end up as Flight N; I was expecting you to target Flight 7
[10:04] <Kamion> particularly since e.g. some bits of the installer have moved on from Flight 7
[10:04] <Kamion> from Flight 6
[10:05] <janimo> Kamion, ah. that's because first builds rarely work ;)
[10:05] <Kamion> indeed
[10:05] <janimo> but ok then I'll target f 7
[10:05] <Kamion> still, I suppose it's possible, just surprising
[10:05] <janimo> well people installed it and they say it's just fine
[10:05] <janimo> and two extra weeks of testing time for those waiting for iso-s seem tot be worth it
[10:06] <Kamion> fair enough
[10:09] <janimo> mvo, morning and daily pokage ;)
[10:09] <janimo> pitti, hi
[10:09] <pitti> hey janimo 
[10:09] <janimo> there was a problem with at_console you discussed with mjg59 a few days ago
[10:09] <pitti> yep
[10:09] <janimo> I am wondering if what I see is related
[10:09] <seb128> is an external CD drive supposed to be listed by fstab?
[10:09] <janimo> after killing gdm and logginh into xfce via startx
[10:10] <janimo> I no longer have the right to shutdown
[10:10] <janimo> hal and system dbus were not restarted
[10:10] <pitti> janimo: why should they?
[10:10] <janimo> is dbus-send the best way to test this?
[10:10] <pitti> hi sivang 
[10:10] <janimo> pitti, no they shouldn't I am just saying 
[10:10] <pitti> janimo: no idea, but that sounds like a gdm issue rather
[10:11] <janimo> is soemthing in the at_console privileges tied to gdm or the 7th console?
[10:11] <janimo> pitti, ok I'll look at the sources involved
[10:12] <pitti> janimo: no, I don't think so
[10:12] <seb128> Kamion: should https://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/37673 be reassigning to some installer part or it's NOTABUG?
[10:12] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 37673 in gnome-applets "disk mount applet always shows an "cdrom1" device that doesn't exist." [Normal,Needs info]  
[10:12] <pitti> janimo: it's just used for g-p-m, g-v-m, and network-manager
[10:12] <seb128> Kamion: external CD listed by fstab
[10:12] <janimo> pitti, and hal for shutdown?
[10:12] <seb128> (so the guy still gets a volume icon when there is no CD drive plugged)
[10:13] <pitti> janimo: no
[10:13] <janimo> or that is via g-p-m
[10:13] <mvo> janimo: good morning :)
[10:13] <pitti> janimo: yes, g-p-m needs to go through hal
[10:13] <pitti> janimo: but AFAIK gdm shuts down directly, not via hal (right, seb128?)
[10:14] <seb128> pitti: correct
[10:14] <janimo> pitti, hal has policy at_console="true" in it's dbus conf, that's what I meant
[10:14] <Kamion> seb128: either partman or notabug, not quite sure this early in the morning
[10:15] <seb128> Kamion: I'll reassign to partman so, feel free to reject it
[10:15] <infinity> janimo: Xubuntu livefs is on my TODO, but it's #3 on the list or so (I assume that's what the ping was for)
[10:15] <janimo> infinity: right, but not hurry. thanks
[10:15] <pitti> janimo: yes, that's for apps that want to use hal to do power management
[10:16] <Kamion> maswan: would you be so kind as to kick off a mirror of http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/releases/dapper/flight-6/ ?
[10:16] <janimo> pitti, rigth, the xfce logout is directly calling hal. I'll investigate, since it does not seem to affect gnome
[10:17] <pitti> janimo: then this could be related to that bug
[10:17] <janimo> pitti, is it written up somewhere? if not I'll search irclogs
[10:17] <pitti> janimo: it's a race condition right now; if you hit an unlucky time, the foreground console at the time the login manager restarts might be wrong
[10:17] <janimo> and also is this ubuntu specific or hal upstream at_console prob?
[10:17] <infinity> Kamion: Regarding that Flight6-on-i2o bug, I can't see how we're missing adding the module to the initrafms, if the LiveCD works (as he claims), and an espresso install from Live works (again, his claim), it's only a system created from d-i that seems to explode on him...
[10:17] <pitti> janimo: bug 37181
[10:17] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 37181 in dbus "at_console does not adapt to console changes" [Major,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/37181
[10:18] <janimo> pitti, thanks
[10:18] <pitti> janimo: ubuntu specific
[10:19] <janimo> in my case there's no 'login manager'.Is it used in  a braoder sense here, does startx qualify?
[10:19] <Kamion> infinity: could be the RAIDness instead, I was just guessing at i2o
[10:19] <maswan> Kamion: done
[10:19] <Kamion> infinity: espresso doesn't support RAID so that would be the differentiator
[10:19] <Kamion> maswan: thanks
[10:19] <janimo> Kamion, thanks
[10:21] <janimo> any ubuntu-announce moderators here? I'd like to announce xubuntu f6. Also if the text needs preview before sending I'd appreciate someone looking over it
[10:21] <infinity> Kamion: But it shouldn't be using software md anyway... Hrm.
[10:21] <infinity> Kamion: Achwell, I'll try to squeeze some more info from him before we pick someone to blame.
[10:22] <Kamion> janimo: please wait until maswan's finished mirroring
[10:22] <janimo> Kamion, oh sure I won't announce till this evening
[10:22] <Kamion> janimo: you should also just send rather than try to find a moderator first; I'll review your text if you like
[10:22] <janimo> just wanted to know who to talk to before that
[10:22] <Kamion> this is appropriate for -announce, no need to find a moderator
[10:31] <Kamion> infinity: can you point me to a copy of the sources.list used by the buildds?
[10:31] <Kamion> infinity: for a breezy-security upload
[10:32] <infinity> Sure.
[10:32] <Kamion> infinity: trying to work out what a debian-installer upload to breezy-security will do
[10:32] <Kamion> (apart from horribly confuse us all)
[10:33] <infinity> deb http://jackass.ubuntu.com/ breezy main
[10:33] <infinity> deb-src http://jackass.ubuntu.com/ breezy main
[10:33] <infinity> deb http://jackass.ubuntu.com/ breezy-security main
[10:33] <infinity> deb-src http://jackass.ubuntu.com/ breezy-security main
[10:33] <infinity> deb-src http://jackass.ubuntu.com//security/ breezy-security/
[10:34] <infinity> The only problem you'll have is if you need to do more than one upload where A build-deps on B, since we don't have binaries in accepted to build from.
[10:34] <Kamion> pitti's pre-publishing to avoid that
[10:34] <infinity> So, you need to get me or pitti to silently release the binaries from A before you can build B.
[10:34] <infinity> Yeah, cool.  No big deal.
[10:34] <maswan> Kamion, janimo: done
[10:35] <pitti> infinity: just did so
[10:35] <janimo> maswan: thanks
[10:35] <pitti> infinity: binaries will be there in 55 minutes
[10:35] <maswan> only install isos, right?
[10:35] <tepsipakki> Kamion: do you plan on adding debian #348509 to dapper?
[10:35] <Kamion> maswan: cheers; yes, just install
[10:35] <Ubugtu> Error: I tried to send you an empty message.
[10:35] <pitti> infinity: (yay LP turnaround) :/
[10:35] <infinity> pitti: 55 minutes?  They're there now, dude.
[10:35] <Kamion> tepsipakki: yeah, it's on my to-do list
[10:35] <pitti> infinity: not in the archive
[10:35] <pitti> infinity: I just uploaded them to LP
[10:35] <infinity> pitti: security builds from jackass, publishing to jackass is instant.  Or is jackass only a mirror now?
[10:35] <tepsipakki> Kamion: great news :)
[10:36] <pitti> infinity: it's just a staging server now
[10:36] <pitti> infinity: after amber, the next LP security upload cronjob runs at :45, then the publisher in cron.daily at :00
[10:37] <infinity> I'd be curious about that, actually, since amber still goes through the motions of publish/apt-ftparchive/etc before the upload to drescher.
[10:40] <pitti> infinity: do you happen to plan a svn merge/sync to debian soon?
[10:41] <pitti> infinity: if not, I'd like to grab the RPATH fix from -5 and apply it to our current version
[10:41] <pitti> infinity: I sponsored the Debian upload and tested it pretty thoroughly
[10:45] <jmg> hi all
[10:45] <jmg> any ideas how i can install to an lvm from flight6? espresso isnt handling lvm correctly
[10:46] <Kamion> jmg: by design, espresso does not support LVM or RAID. Use the traditional installer.
[10:46] <infinity> pitti: I had a couple more fixes I wanted to get into upstream SVN before syncing.  It the rpath thing urgent for you, or just annoying?
[10:46] <jmg> Kamion: how do i launch it from flight6?
[10:46] <Kamion> jmg: grab the install CD, not the live CD
[10:46] <pitti> infinity: it should be fixed for dapper, but not terribly urgent
[10:46] <Kamion> boot from it
[10:46] <jmg> Kamion: damn ok
[10:47] <pitti> infinity: the /tmp rpath shouldn't affect us since we rebuild binaries
[10:47] <pitti> infinity: but having rpaths in the apache library at all is still ugly
[10:47] <jmg> Kamion: i see espresso is written in python. i could fix the lvm support :)
[10:47] <infinity> pitti: Having RPATH anywhere is ugly.
[10:47] <Kamion> jmg: it uses bits of the traditional installer for partitioning support, and gparted for manual partitioning; believe me it will be tortuously hard
[10:48] <Kamion> jmg: please don't bother
[10:48] <jmg> added*
[10:48] <Kamion> jmg: it's not possible
[10:48] <jmg> Kamion: it sort of supports lvm already though
[10:48] <Kamion> we do not have room on the CD
[10:48] <Kamion> jmg: that's a bug
[10:48] <jmg> Kamion: the other components are already there
[10:48] <Kamion> no they aren't
[10:48] <jmg> how does espresso do the install then?
[10:48] <Kamion> it copies the live filesystem
[10:48] <jmg> magic?
[10:48] <jmg> i see
[10:49] <Kamion> the traditional installer requires a pool of .debs
[10:49] <jmg> so i really am better off getting the install cd ;)
[10:49] <Kamion> yes
[10:49] <Kamion> we don't have space to put them both on the one CD, I'm afraid
[10:49] <jmg> is espresso the gui installer for dapper?
[10:49] <Kamion> the only LVM "support" I'm aware of in espresso is that it will probably display existing LVM PVs
[10:49] <jmg> or just the quick-hack-copy-livecd-image installer?
[10:49] <Kamion> we're referring to it as the "live CD installer"
[10:49] <jmg> it displays two lvs
[10:49] <Kamion> but yeah
[10:50] <jmg> and then tries to format them as disks :/
[10:50] <Kamion> jmg: oh, in gparted?
[10:50] <jmg> before gparted
[10:50] <Kamion> ok, that's just a bug
[10:50] <Kamion> I don't have time to make LVM support work properly; I'd rather it didn't work at all than half-worked
[10:50] <jmg> Kamion: *nods* i could add a check to see if the disk is lvm and remove it from the list if requred
[10:51] <Kamion> mm, it's messy to do in espresso, would fit better in partman
[10:51] <Kamion> ... somewhere
[10:51] <jmg> heh
[10:51] <jmg> ok
[10:52] <jmg> well i really like drake
[10:52] <Kamion> but sure, that approach would be reasonable, noting that the code is shared with the traditional installer so it can't just be unconditional removal
[10:53] <jmg> but i dont get the aero glassalike theme
[10:53] <jmg> at least placement etc
[10:53] <jmg> and size
[10:53] <jmg> ok rebooting
[10:54] <Kamion> hmm, I think this might need to go in parted_devices.c
[10:54] <Kamion> the deeper the better ...
[10:56] <pitti> meh, d-i, wpasupplicant, samba - keeping passwords secret is not our greatest strength ATM :/
[10:57] <infinity> pitti: Hrm?
[10:57] <infinity> pitti: What's there to fix?
[10:57] <infinity> pitti: oh, I haven't uploaded to dapper yet, that's what.
[10:57] <pitti> infinity: http://us1.samba.org/samba/security/CAN-2006-1059.html
[10:57] <infinity> pitti: It's sitting here, pending me merging another patch.  I wouldn't bother, unless you think it's uber-urgent.
[10:58] <pitti> infinity: oops, sorry, too late; I just uploaded it
[10:58] <infinity> Oh, alright then.
[10:58] <pitti> infinity: feel free to just ignore the current version and changelog if you'll upload 3.0.22 then
[10:58] <janimo> pitti, I assume you have the same objections against xubuntu-system-tools for main as for evince-gtk, given it's a fork/dupe of gnome-system-tools?
[10:59] <pitti> janimo: yes, in principle - how big is the diversion?
[10:59] <seb128> next is nautilus-gtk and evolution-gtk :p
[10:59] <janimo> pitti, smaller than for evince
[10:59] <infinity> pitti: Oh, if you've seen the log bypass vuln for MySQL 5.0, you can happily ignore that too, it's going in my next upload...
[10:59] <infinity> (The upload I'd be doing if my laptop would stop overheating..)
[10:59] <janimo> seb128: nautilus and evolution are _definitely_ not getting into xubuntu
[10:59] <pitti> janimo: ... multibuild
[10:59] <seb128> soon gnome-desktop-gtk is coming :)
[10:59] <pitti> infinity: yes, it was next on my list; thanks :)
[11:00] <janimo> pitti, yeah I'll look at cdbs multibuild as cdbs2 is not ready
[11:00] <pitti> janimo: or just do it the old way then
[11:00] <janimo> seb128: really you mentioned the two apps are the least appealing for a gtk-only version ;)
[11:00] <janimo> top 3 in gnome bugzilla, no thanks :)
[11:00] <seb128> janimo: guess what, that was on purpose
[11:00] <seb128> :p
[11:00] <janimo> I know
[11:01] <seb128> what media player do you use?
[11:01] <seb128> are you going to rebuild totem with gtk? :)
[11:01] <infinity> pitti: Have you confirmed that it doesn't affect MySQL 4.x?  If not, I'll poke that in a bit.
[11:01] <pitti> infinity: no, I just wanted to ask yo
[11:01] <pitti> you
[11:01] <pitti> infinity: but let me dig that out then
[11:01] <janimo> pitti, "or just do it the old way then" ? what do you mean
[11:01] <seb128> debhelper probably
[11:01] <pitti> janimo: good ol' debhelper
[11:02] <seb128> pitti: if you start switching GNOME packages from cdbs to debhelper I'll not be happy :p
[11:02] <janimo> pitti, but that means debian maintainers of said package go to debhelper.
[11:02] <infinity> pitti: Upstream only applied the fix to the 5.x branch, so I think I'll actually have to look at the code to see if it affect 4.0/4.1  (I don't tend to trust upstreams when they claim "only affects foo")
[11:02] <janimo> anyway I mailed g-s-t maintainer but no response so far
[11:02] <pitti> infinity: indeed, we had such cases with mysql before
[11:03] <janimo> seb128: I just saw the media player q
[11:03] <janimo> right now it's xfmedia
[11:03] <infinity> pitti: Right, I'll look at it after I finish testing 5.0, then, and upload to warty/hoary/breezy if necessary.
[11:03] <pitti> infinity: http://rst.void.ru/papers/advisory39.txt <- yay, my Russian is far from good enough to decipher that :)
[11:03] <janimo> but I don;t like it much. another could be plain xine-ui or gxine
[11:03] <pitti> infinity: thanks
[11:03] <pitti> janimo: hm, true, converting gnome packages to debhelper is bad
[11:04] <pitti> janimo: but it shold be no problem (just a bit ugly) to get the same effect with cdbs rules - you have to write the unpack and build code anyway (with debhelper, too)
[11:05] <janimo> pitti, yes. Need to see which is the lesser evil: dup source packages or uglier rules in someone else's package
[11:06] <pitti> janimo: the latter IMHO
[11:06] <janimo> pitti, IMHO too, but it invloves other people who have the most say init I think
[11:06] <pitti> janimo: why, we can fork it for ubuntu
[11:21] <Mithrandir> Kamion: (re merging espresso): I'd be quite happy with it.
[11:24] <jordi> where do I mail UVF exception requests?
[11:25] <dholbach> jordi: main? universe?
[11:25] <jordi> dholbach: main, I guess. It's the aspell/myspell Catalan dictionary.
[11:26] <jordi> current in Debian/Ubuntu is the horror, I just fixed it.
[11:26] <dholbach> jordi: then it's cjwatson and mdz
[11:26] <jordi> It's named 0.5-1, but it's just text files that change.
[11:26] <jordi> ok, will try those.
[11:26] <jordi> is there a wiki page, or email?
[11:33] <Kamion> Mithrandir: yeah, I think it might make it easier for third parties to hack on it privately too (although increases the risk of the result being a mess, but I think we have to live with that)
[11:33] <Kamion> I'll have a look at it soon
[11:33] <Kamion> jordi: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources
[11:35] <ogra> doko, ping
[11:36] <ogra> doko, bug 37545, you seem to run the ati driver, could you try with "radeon" in xorg.conf ?
[11:36] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 37545 in gnome-screensaver "hitting a key while the "ants" screensaver is running terminates the X-session" [Major,Needs info]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/37545
[11:36] <jordi> thanks Kamion 
[11:37] <jordi> Kamion: I'll give this a few days of testing in unstable.
[11:38] <hunger> Why is my screen suddenly all messed up when shuting down the system?
[11:38] <hunger> Looks a bit like the startup-screen, but with text scrolling all over it and the colors all wrong.
[11:39] <doko> ogra: will try, but that's what the autoconfiguration did detect
[11:40] <ogra> doko, yes, but i had other bugs with the same effect ... apparently the autoconfiguration is a bit outdated
[11:42] <Kagou> hi
[11:43] <hunger> Any idea which distro I can use to fix up my LVM? Dapper coredumps when trying, breezy does not work at all with the HDD.
[11:46] <Pygi> Mithrandir: hi hi, around? ^_^
[11:46] <Mithrandir> Pygi: yes, but a bit busy.
[11:47] <Pygi> Mithrandir: will talk later then...
[11:51] <janimo> mvo, would there be an interest in a unionfs patch to pbuilder, as I see there are ubuntu specific bits in it?
[11:53] <Kinnison> hunger: have you tried to work out what bit of pvmove segfaults?
[11:53] <siretart> janimo: have you looked into schroot/sbuilds capabilities for building on lvm snapshots? great stuff! :)
[11:53] <Pygi> janimo: I think he's currently working on some bugs ;)
[11:53] <mvo> janimo: the patches I applied so far are very little changes, good value :) I may apply the unionfs patch if it's not too instrusive
[11:54] <janimo> siretart, not for sbuilds specifically just to make tar extraction go away
[11:54] <janimo> and have not looked at lvm 
[11:54] <janimo> siretart: are those in pbuilder now in debian?
[11:55] <siretart> janimo: I don't think so. I switched from pbuilder to sbuild on my laptop. but schroot can also extract chroots from tarballs, if you like that
[11:55] <Kamion> janimo: any reason you couldn't do cdbs multibuild by creating two extra debian/rules-* files which are basically ordinary debian/rules files except that they use a different build directory, and a very simple debian/rules file which just calls both subrules files in succession?
[11:55] <Kamion> wouldn't be very pretty, but ought to be relatively easy for cdbs-ish people to maintain
[11:56] <hunger> Kinnison: No, I can no longer boot the box with that problem.
[11:56] <Kinnison> hunger: erm, oops :-(
[11:56] <Kinnison> hunger: not even with a dapper live CD?
[11:56] <janimo> Kamion, I did not think of specific ways to tackle the problem. As I thought cdbs maintainers don't want their packages touched in anay way
[11:56] <janimo> but will look at a clean way
[11:56] <hunger> Kinnison: Dapper's LVM stuff coredumps (pvmove).
[11:57] <hunger> Kinnison: Breezy live does not want to access the drive at all:-(
[11:57] <Kinnison> hunger: right, so can you not boot a live cd and strace pvmove ?
[11:57] <Kamion> janimo: well, I don't know if they'd want their packages touched in this way either - just a suggestion
[11:57] <Kinnison> hunger: see at what point it dumps?
[11:57] <hunger> Kinnison: So I am trying to download FC to fix my dapper.
[11:58] <janimo> siretart: so is sbuild better than pbuilder? You need a lvm partition for it?
[11:58] <hunger> Kinnison: I could... but then all my data is in that LVM... incl. all my passwords to i.e. launchpad and my email accounts.
[11:58] <Kinnison> hunger: aah :-)
[11:59] <Mithrandir> hunger: make a backup first and work on the backup.
[11:59] <Kinnison> hunger: that's why you have a recent and full backup right? Like a good user?
[11:59] <hunger> Kinnison: I do have backups of all my data.
[12:00] <hunger> Kinnison: But I still do not want to resetup a new box to use it.
[12:00] <Kinnison> fair enough
[12:01] <hunger> Kinnison: Currently I am on a windows box (with irc running on my server).
[12:01] <Kinnison> hunger: sounds painful
[12:01] <hunger> Kinnison: I can not really delete any of those two boxes:-(
[12:04] <triceratops> ping dholbach, may I ask a question about ubuntu-example-content...
[12:04] <dholbach> triceratops: fire away
[12:04] <siretart> janimo: sbuild itself requires a 'real' chroot. rleigh enchanced it so that you can build on any chroot which schroot supports. and schroots supports 'plain' chroots, block devices, lvm-snapshots or tarballs. you are way more flexible with that solution.
[12:05] <janimo> siretart: hmm never tried it
[12:05] <triceratops> Do you know about the free video and audio projects in Europe. There are a few which might be interesting for example-content
[12:06] <siretart> janimo: if you do, then better try the versions from debian unstable. I didn't get to write UVF exception request for the 2 packages yet
[12:06] <dholbach> triceratops: you might want to talk to heno - he searched a lot for open and nice content in the internet - he did the actual selection
[12:06] <janimo> siretart: ok, thanks
[12:07] <triceratops> dholbach: may I have his email address ...
[12:07] <siretart> janimo: I assume it wouldn't be hard to enhance schroot to build on unionfs volumes, but since it does cope with lvm, I don't see the need for that..
[12:07] <dholbach> triceratops: he's on irc atm
[12:08] <triceratops> dholbach: yepp, he's on #ubuntu-accessibility... Should have asked whois first. *tsstsstss*
[12:08] <doko> ogra: is there already a report open for the autoconfiguration? which package?
[12:09] <ogra> should be xserver-xorg 
[12:09] <ogra> but no, i just have other GL screensaver bugs with that coming up
[12:17] <hunger> Kinnison: Yahoo! It boots agian!
[12:17] <hunger> Kinnison: FC5 came to the rescue:-(
[12:18] <hunger> Which has a sucky (but at least working) rescue CD.
[12:18] <Kinnison> How odd
[12:27] <jono> hey ho
[12:27] <jono> mjg59, ping
[12:28] <mjg59> jono: Hi
[12:28] <mjg59> jono: I have stuff written for you, but I want to try to sort out a generic bug target
[12:33] <jono> mjg59, no worries
[12:33] <jono> mjg59, you want to be a rockstar on lugradio tonight?
[12:33] <hunger> Kinnison: I opened #38007 about the pvmove issue (incl. strace output).
[12:34] <Kinnison> hunger: hopefully someone with an LVM will be able to debug it :-)
[12:35] <ajmitch> someone with LVM & willing to sacrifice a filesystem
[12:36] <mjg59> jono: Sounds good
[12:36] <jono> mjg59, mail me your phone number - we will call you at around 8pm
[12:36] <mjg59> jono: Ok - address?
[12:36] <jono> mjg59, this will be a five minute update :)
[12:36] <jono> mjg59, jono AT jonobacon DOT org
[12:38] <hunger> ajmitch: pvmove is harmless.
[12:39] <ajmitch> it's *meant* to resume properly, but anyone testing has to take that on faith :)
[12:39] <hunger> ajmitch: It mirrors the data and only removes the actual data once that is done.
[12:40] <hunger> ajmitch: So it is harmless when it coredumps early:-)
[12:41] <mjg59> jono: Done
[12:41] <jono> mjg59, nice
[12:48] <hunger> Kinnison: Is there anything I can do to help debug the pvmove issue?
[12:49] <Kinnison> hunger: No idea really
[12:50] <Kinnison> hunger: it fails after talking to devicemapper
[12:50] <Kinnison> hunger: so I'm guessing it was compiled with the wrong libdevicemapper or something, but I'm not sure
[12:50] <Kinnison> hunger: try downloading the source, recompiling it and see if it works better?
[12:51] <hunger> Kinnison: I'll try that. Thanks!
[12:51] <Kinnison> hunger: and even if it fails, you'll be able to provide a better debug trace by compiling it with debugging symbols and using gdb :-)
[12:55] <hunger> Kinnison: lvm2 build depends on libdlm-dev which in turn depends on libdlm1 which is not a dependency of lvm2. Is that OK?
[12:57] <Kinnison> hunger: if the shlibdeps claim it's not needed, I imagine it's okay unless it's being dynamically loaded or something odd
[12:57] <Kamion> it's possible that e.g. everything is inlines
[12:57] <Kamion> inlined
[12:57] <Kamion> or that it just needs some constants
[12:58] <hunger> Kamion: Build fails without that builddep, so it seems to be needed.
[12:59] <Kamion> dholbach: FYI libsexy2-dbg in binary NEW is empty apart from documentation; perhaps you forgot to rename a .install file?
[01:04] <hunger> Kinnison: pvmove crashes after a rebuild just as well.
[01:04] <Kinnison> hunger: so build it -g -O0 and hit it with gdb :-)
[01:07] <pitti> mdz: I reviewed dovecot, please see bug 30314 (waiting for your approval)
[01:07] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 30314 in dovecot "dovecot 1.0beta3 is out, but dapper is still on alpha ;)" [Wishlist,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/30314
[01:07] <Mithrandir> maswan: is ftp.acc.umu.se ill or something?  I get < 1MB/sec from it.
[01:08] <Riddell> pitti: the cups KDE fix sorts out a compile problems that existed for a while but doesn't fix the other problems.  it looks like we'll need an old cups in the archive to get it to work
[01:09] <pitti> Riddell: I didn't yet see the promised API compatibility patches
[01:09] <hunger> Kinnison: Where does our lvm2 come from?
[01:09] <hunger> Kinnison: The version we use is not even mentioned in debian's changelog
[01:12] <Riddell> pitti: it's r5329
[01:12] <maswan> Mithrandir: perhaps one frontend has significant load?
[01:12] <maswan> Mithrandir: I'm off now for a while though, feel free to check the different IPs. :)
[01:12] <Riddell> pitti: which fixes http://bugs.kde.org//show_bug.cgi?id=124157
[01:12] <Mithrandir> maswan: I tried from a few different boxes.
[01:12] <Ubugtu> KDE bug 124157 in general "KDEprint incorrectly uses private CUPS APIs _ipp_add and _ipp_free" [Grave,Unconfirmed]  
[01:13] <Riddell> but not the longer standing issue of http://bugs.kde.org//show_bug.cgi?id=115891
[01:13] <Ubugtu> KDE bug 115891 in general "KDE doesn't work with CUPS 1.2" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  
[01:13] <Mithrandir> maswan: it seems like the backend might be loaded, since it acellerates for a while, then is cut off.  Repeat.
[01:13] <pitti> Riddell: and kdeprint won't be ported to 1.2 anytime soon?
[01:14] <pitti> Riddell: i. e. are we forced to revert back to 1.1?
[01:14] <Riddell> pitti: well he's been promising since November according to that bug, but I've not seen any development
[01:14] <pitti> Riddell: it's important that we decide this very soon, before I evaluate 1.2rc=1
[01:15] <Riddell> pitti: I've been testing an SVN CUPS and it makes no difference
[01:15] <pitti> Riddell: no, I meant, if we can port kdeprint to 1.2, then I'd like to upgrade cups to 1.2rc=1
[01:16] <pitti> Riddell: but if that is utterly complex, and we don't have any other chance, then we should revert to 1.1 ASAP
[01:16] <pitti> (I wouldn't like that, though)
[01:16] <dholbach> Kamion: arg, will look into it
[01:16] <dholbach> mdke: anytime :)
[01:17] <Riddell> pitti: I don't think we'll be able to port kdeprint
[01:18] <hunger> Kinnison: I tried to build the lvm2 debs from debian. Those need a newer devicemapper (userspace) which in turn won't build on ubuntu:-(
[01:21] <pitti> Riddell: that means we have to revert?
[01:22] <Kinnison> hunger: Hmm
[01:31] <Riddell> pitti: I don't see any other way at the moment
[01:31] <Riddell> pitti: mandriva have also changed to cups 1.2, I should talk to them to see how they plan to resolve the problems
[01:31] <pitti> Riddell: yep, that would be nice; maybe they ported it
[01:33] <Riddell> I don't think so, as far as I know it's broken for them too but I'll e-mail the maintainer
[01:43] <pitti> Kamion: which package is responsible for TZ selection in the installer? in particular, where does it take the translations of the countries from? (bug 28690)
[01:43] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 28690 in glibc "Translation bug on tzconfig" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/28690
[01:48] <pitti> Riddell: can you make head and tail of bug #29648? Do you really use gnome-cups-icon under KDE?
[01:48] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 29648 in gnome-cups-manager "Printing Notification Icon misplaced under KDE" [Minor,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/29648
[01:49] <Kamion> pitti: tzsetup
[01:49] <sivang>  /msg Kinnison Hey Daniel!
[01:50] <sivang> wops
[01:50] <Kamion> pitti: it has its own translations
[01:50] <pitti> Kamion: ah, thanks
[01:50] <Kamion> because they're translations of zones not countries
[01:51] <Riddell> pitti: not by default we don't but someone can always install it
[01:51] <pitti> Kamion: shall I upload a fixed pacakge, or do you prefer to handle that yourself?
[01:51] <Kamion> pitti: please don't, I want to get it sorted out upstream
[01:51] <pitti> ok, then it's ok if I assign it to you?
[01:51] <Kamion> since it's still buggy upstream
[01:51] <Kamion> pitti: sure
[01:53] <pitti> Riddell: so, will NotShowIn=KDE help?
[01:54] <Riddell> pitti: it'll hide the application from KDE, that's fine since KDE has equivalent programmes (although they don't work just now with cups 1.2)
[01:54] <pitti> Riddell: alright, then I'll do that for this bug; thanks
[01:55] <Riddell> pitti: but that .desktop file should really have a Categories line, I don't understand how it doesn't end up in the Gnome lost and found category
[01:58] <Riddell> mvo: did you add .desktop files for ubuntu-desktop and kubuntu-desktop to app-install-data?
[01:59] <mvo> Riddell: no, I don't think that is the right application for this. 
[01:59] <Riddell> mvo: why not?
[02:00] <jmg> ubuntu-desktop-files?
[02:01] <mvo> Riddell: well, it feels wrong. this app installer is about applications, we have very little exceptions (like the gstreaer, xine stuff). adding a desktop enviroment, I'm not sure
[02:03] <Riddell> mvo: just seems to me there should be an easy way to install them, there's a lot of questions on #ubuntu and #kubuntu about how to install the other desktop
[02:03] <mvo> Riddell: hm, right. I'm not totally against it, I was merely uncertain. can you install ubuntu-desktop on a kbuuntu system without removals?
[02:03] <mvo> there are no conflicts at all?
[02:08] <Riddell> mvo: yep, no conflicts
[02:08] <doko> Diziet: I need to revert your fontconfig change (removing the aliases for the Adobe standard fonts)
[02:15] <mvo> Riddell: ok, if there is enough  demand, I'll add it
[02:17] <Riddell> hmm, so I need to set up a poll on ubuntu forums to convince mvo of the demand :)
[02:22] <mvo> Riddell: just nag me until I give in, that usually works (well, at least for my GF)
[02:22] <infinity> I dunno, could cause more issues than it solves.
[02:23] <infinity> kubuntu and ubuntu /do/ coexist fine, but the first thing you see pepole asking after they discover they can install both is "eek, now my menus have twice as many apps in both desktop environments and now I want to switch to just one or just the other, and there's no way to do that, help!"
[02:24] <infinity> Perhaps it's best to leave "install two (or more) meta-desktops at once" to people who at least have a tiny bit of understanding about how to add and remove packages with a real package manager.
[02:25] <mvo> good point! another possible  problem is that iirc kdm will replace gdm and that will suprise some people too
[02:25] <jdub> and stuff like the kubuntu usplash
[02:25] <mvo> *nod*
[02:25] <Riddell> he he, we do get a few surprised people with the "I installed kubuntu and now my bootup is all blue!"
[02:26] <giftnudel> you'd need to provide a kde meta-package ...
[02:26] <giftnudel> hehe
[02:26] <ogra> thats what kubuntu-desktop is
[02:27] <giftnudel> ogra: yes, I meant like a package which you install in ubuntu which doesn't do all the stuff about ...
[02:27] <giftnudel> above
[02:27] <ogra> sudo apt-get install kubuntu-desktop && sudo apt-get remove kdm :)
[02:28] <giftnudel> and then you wonder why kubuntu-desktop is not installed and you do it again and again ...
[02:29] <giftnudel> I hate it, gnome-screensaver activated 3 times so far, while I was writing ...
[02:29] <ogra> yes, i'm still diggin on that
[02:29] <infinity> Oh, speaking of gnome-screensaver...
[02:29] <giftnudel> but it makes the desktop more entertaining ...
[02:29] <ogra> nooo
[02:30] <ogra> infinity, its not on my TODO today
[02:30] <infinity> ogra: Your patch to mplayer seems to completely disable the screensaver when I run it.  ie: I have to manually enable it afterward.
[02:30] <infinity> And no, mplayer isn't crashing.
[02:30] <infinity> (Though even if it were, that really shouldn't leave me with no screensaver. :/)
[02:30] <ogra> infinity, i just added gnome-screensaver to the kscreensaver code ... it gets only disabled if you use the --no-screensaver option 
[02:31] <infinity> Seriously?  Then something else is randomly disabling it, and I assumed it's mplayer, cause that's the only thing I use that SHOULD be disabling it?
[02:31] <ogra> since the original code switches off the screensaver completely instead of poking it, it wont get enabled if mplayer crashed
[02:31] <infinity> Greeeaaat.
[02:32] <infinity> Oh, no, I have stop-xscreensaver=true in .mplayer/config
[02:32] <ogra> but i refuse to write new features for screensaver handling that werent there before
[02:32] <infinity> So, yeah, it probably is mplayer.
[02:32] <ogra> its the way it always handled screensavers ... g-s-s was only added to that function
[02:32] <infinity> TBH, the old screensaver handling in mplayer never worked well anyway.  Now it works a bit TOO well.  Not sure which is worse.
[02:32] <ogra> (its the most evil way btw)
[02:33] <ogra> the right way is to have a timeout loop that pings the screensaver on a regular base ... which is apparently implemented in all other mediaplayers i touched
[02:33] <ogra> mplayer is a bit different
[03:13] <janimo> Kamion, could you proof-read this? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/XubuntuReleaseNotes
[03:19] <Kamion> janimo: I'm not sure about the last bit about checking whether the bug was reported beforehand; the sentiment is fine, but many bugs that people may notice (e.g. installer bugs) should not be assigned to xubuntu-team
[03:19] <janimo> Kamion, ok I'll delete it. But the last bit is only for the ~10 xubuntu bugs
[03:19] <Kamion> say so, then :)
[03:19] <janimo> the reports are still directed to ubuntu as in the original mail
[03:20] <janimo> as I copy pasted from Tollefs mail
[03:20] <Kamion> otherwise, it looks fine
[03:20] <janimo> ok, thanks I'll modify the last bit 
[03:22] <maswan> Mithrandir: Ok, I guess I'll poke Znarl for a bit less load then.
[03:22] <janimo> ok just deleted the ref to xubuntu bugs and left the generic ubuntu link only
[03:35] <maswan> Mithrandir: how quick does it drop for you?
[03:36] <maswan> Mithrandir: I get a bit over 2M/s. :)
[03:39] <infinity> Aww, isn't that cute, MySQL and PostgreSQL building at the same time on the hppa buildds.
[03:41] <LarstiQ> heh
[03:47] <hunger> Breezy: Does not detect my HDD, dapper: pvmove coredumps, Etch: Does not detect my CDROM, FC5: works but is generally quirky.
[03:47] <hunger> And all that just to fix my perfectly working dapper installation.
[03:52] <hunger> FC5 complains about partitions not ending on cylinder boundaries when seeing discs partitioned in dapper. Is that something to worry about?
[03:52] <giftnudel> I recently saw a "round to cylinder" option in espresso
[03:53] <hunger> giftnudel: I just used plain fdisk... that asks for cylinder numbers by default.
[03:54] <giftnudel> hunger: I just read a howto, where it says that for linux, there is no problem if they don't end on cylinder boundaries
[03:54] <giftnudel> but some programs complain just because they can
[03:55] <hunger> giftnudel: I wonder why it does not end on a boundary in the first place. I gave track numbers when creating the partitions. And dapper does not complain at all, it is just FC5 that does.
[03:55] <giftnudel> hunger: in the howto, they mentioned diskdruid on rh 7.1 complaining without a reason
[03:56] <giftnudel> so this might be a leftover
[03:56] <hunger> giftnudel: I used fdisk on both distros. But FC5 *is* strange.
[03:56] <giftnudel> hmm
[03:58] <hunger> Migrating to a new HDD is so easy with it (if pvmove works of course).
[04:00] <Riddell> Kamion: in gtk espresso how does the ui get moved onto the autopartition page
[04:00] <Riddell> Kamion: I have partman.py calling set_autopartition_choices, but nothing is moving the page on from the 
[04:00] <Riddell> disk selection page
[04:07] <Riddell> Kamion: oh, got it, set_autopartition_choices changes the UI page
[04:09] <Kamion> Riddell: "messily". I guess you've found it
[04:09] <Riddell> :)
[04:11] <Kamion> I'd love to come up with a generally less messy way of moving between pages; I might look at that while trying to make pages disabled until espresso's actually ready for input
[04:17] <seb128> pitti, carlos: why is gnome-btdownload not listed by rosetta as to translate?
[04:18] <seb128> hum, https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/dapper/+source/gnome-panel/+pots/gnome-panel-2.0/fr/+translate works fine
[04:18] <seb128> carlos: but it's not listed by https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/dapper/+lang/fr
[04:19] <carlos> seb128: that page needs some love...
[04:19] <seb128> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/dapper/+source/gnome-btdownload/+pots/gnome-btdownload/fr/+translate I mean
[04:19] <seb128> carlos: so what page should be used to know what to translate for the desktop?
[04:19] <carlos> seb128: as soon as I finish importing most dapper, I will give some love to that page
[04:19] <seb128> the list is not autogenerated?
[04:19] <carlos> seb128: we don't have a page with that concrete information
[04:19] <carlos> at least not yet
[04:19] <Riddell> pitti: talking of translations, koffice isn't being imported into the langpacks
[04:20] <seb128> carlos: ok, thank you
[04:20] <Riddell> pitti: koffice is like k3b, it has a separate koffice-l10n package (which is in universe)
[04:20] <carlos> seb128: a user wrote this page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RosettaImportantPackagesToTranslate
[04:21] <seb128> carlos: everything shipped by the GNOME language pack should be one a page by example
[04:21] <carlos> seb128: we are going to implement that kind of page inside launchpad/rosetta 
[04:21] <seb128> so people know what to do to get a desktop translated
[04:21] <carlos> seb128: yeah, and same for kde lang packs
[04:21] <carlos> or xfce
[04:21] <seb128> do you know when that should be ready?
[04:21] <pitti> Riddell: ah, I see; well, this should be mainly carlos' problem now, but if we need to build another set of langpacks from just buildds, I can add another special case for it
[04:22] <seb128> because that's required if you want correct translations for dapper
[04:22] <seb128> look at gnome-btdownload, I noticed that it's not translated this morning while trying a patch
[04:22] <Riddell> pitti: good point.  I'll poke carlos if it doesn't sort itself out
[04:22] <seb128> it's not listed by rosetta list of french packages to translate
[04:22] <seb128> how do you expect people to figure they have to translate it?
[04:23] <carlos> Riddell, pitti: Well, I will provide those files to be translated and available as part of language packs if you move them into main
[04:23] <carlos> if they are in universe, we ignore them....
[04:23] <carlos> seb128: I cannot give you a date, still working on language packs and dapper 100% ready to be translated from Rosetta...
[04:24] <pitti> carlos: so far we specifically kept k3b-i18n and koffice-i18n in universe since they are empty anyway
[04:24] <pitti> carlos: i. e. we need the built source packages to strip them, but the debs themselves are useless
[04:24] <carlos> pitti: are the .po files inside the main packages then?
[04:25] <pitti> carlos: they are in the koffice-i18n/k3b-i18n source
[04:25] <pitti> carlos: so, if we need to promote the source into main for you, that's not a problem at all
[04:25] <carlos> hmmm, so that means that I should have a list of packages from universe that we should import....
[04:26] <carlos> pitti: well, I prefer them in main
[04:26] <carlos> that means I don't need to add special code to handle those packages
[04:26] <pitti> carlos: then we will promote them
[04:26] <carlos> pitti: thank you
[04:26] <Riddell> pitti: need a main inclusion review?
[04:26] <pitti> Kamion: is it possible to have just a source package in main, but none of the resulting binaries?
[04:26] <jono> is anyone looking into https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/gst-plugins/+bug/34597 ?
[04:27] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 34597 in gstreamer "Cannot record using alsa + gstreamer framework" [Unknown,Unknown]  
[04:27] <pitti> Riddell: for a bunch of po files? I hope not... :)
[04:28] <carlos> pitti: btw, are you fixing the list of packages that are missing a .pot file?
[04:28] <carlos> you or any other developer
[04:28] <carlos> ?
[04:28] <pitti> carlos: I'll try to look into them, yes
[04:28] <pitti> carlos: some of them are false positives
[04:29] <carlos> pitti: I'm able to detect them from the rosetta import queue
[04:29] <carlos> not automatically
[04:29] <Kamion> pitti: technically yes, although that source would be on anastacia's list for demotion
[04:29] <carlos> but is easy to detect seeing the 'stalled' .po files that we cannot import
[04:29] <pitti> yes, IIRC I threw a bug at you about that, right?
[04:30] <pitti> Kamion: I mean, it wouldn't exactly hurt to have the empty debs in main, but they are just totally useless
[04:31] <carlos> pitti: I filed some bugs, but seb told me that you are already aware of them
[04:31] <carlos> due the list you maintain
[04:32] <wasabi> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ThirdPartyApt   <--- spec I'm looking for more opinions and interest on
[04:36] <pitti> carlos: do you know any tool which counts the number of msgids and translated strings in a po file?
[04:36] <pitti> carlos: msgfmt --statistics only counts the latter
[04:36] <pitti> carlos: grepping the file twice wouldn't be a big deal, but maybe there is sth more efficient
[04:37] <carlos> grepping it twice?
[04:37] <pitti> carlos: grep --count for the number of msgids, and msgfmt --statistics for the number of translated strings
[04:38] <carlos> pitti: you can either do that or just calculate the number of msgids from the --statistics count
[04:38] <carlos> s/count/output/
[04:38] <pitti> carlos: how?
[04:39] <carlos> pitti: if you add untranslated + fuzzy + translated == msgid count
[04:39] <pitti> carlos: it just shows me '48 translated messages'
[04:39] <carlos> that's 48 msgids
[04:39] <pitti> no, 48 msgstrs
[04:39] <pitti> there are 49 msgids in that file
[04:39] <carlos> the header does not count
[04:39] <carlos> and your grep counts it as an extra msgid
[04:40] <pitti> carlos: ah, I see; nevermind :)
[04:40] <carlos> ;-)
[04:51] <Kamion> fabbione: re your multipath-tools mail, I consider UVF exception granted now, I'm just making a note about future promotion to main
[04:51] <fabbione> Kamion: ok sure. it has been tested *before* asking for UVF
[04:51] <fabbione> Kamion: just to make sure we understand eachother
[04:53] <Kamion> fine
[04:53] <janimo> is jdub the announce list moderator?
[04:54] <Kamion> mdz: FYI, I'm getting increasingly fed up with maintaining all the little espresso-* binary packages; Mithrandir and I have agreed that it would be better to move to a system like the one we use for partman (i.e. a set of scripts that suck all the component source packages into espresso, and make the espresso binary package itself contain all the components)
[04:55] <Kamion> mdz: that'll make it easier to manage the whole thing, and hopefully make it easier for third parties to hack on after dapper release too
[04:55] <Kamion> working on that now since I have several other components I need to add and I might as well do this first
[04:56] <Kamion> (apt-setup, choose-mirror at least)
[04:59] <Kamion> effectively, the espresso source package will be in a similar position to debian-installer; the component interface is thin enough that coordinated changes are very often needed anyway
[05:09] <jono> is there a GUI way of dist-upgrading in Dapper?
[05:10] <jono> as in, going from dapper to dapper+1 ?
[05:11] <ogra> there is an upgrade tool (never tried it so i dont know if it has a gui part, but i guess so)
[05:11] <ogra> its called dist-upgrader ...
[05:15] <jono> but is anything planned to make this easy and clickable?
[05:16] <ogra> yup i think so ... mvo is the guy who cares for it 
[05:17] <_mvo_> jono: yes ,we have it for breezy->dapper as well
[05:18] <_mvo_> ogra: it has a GUI :) the trouble is that there is currently no version without a gui :)
[05:18] <jono> _mvo_, so will the gui for it be installed by default in dapper?
[05:19] <_mvo_> jono: yes
[05:19] <jono> cool
[05:19] <jono> where do I find it to run it?
[05:19] <_mvo_> jono: if you want to run it on breezy, make sure that you have "breezy-updates" for main and universe in your sources.list
[05:19] <ogra> gah, dbs-edit-patch sucks ...
[05:20] <_mvo_> jono: then add "deb http://people.ubuntu.com/~mvo/backports/update-manager /" to your sources.list and dist-upgrade, it should bring in new upate-manager, python-vte, pyhton-apt
[05:20] <hunger> Is this splash thingy used during shutdown nowadays?
[05:21] <ogra> yep
[05:21] <hunger> I keep seeing something that looks like the startup splash thing with text scrolling all over it.
[05:21] <hunger> ... or just the text like usual, but in a blue color (kubuntu).
[05:22] <jono> _mvo_, hang on a sec, will this tool be included in Dapper so I can just click a button and upgrade to dapper+1?
[05:22] <hunger> ... or a completly unreadable screen or the normal text as it used to be before.
[05:22] <jono> (I am writing this into the book you see)
[05:22] <Riddell> hunger: that's kdm calling usplash_down
[05:22] <Riddell> hunger: it doesn't always do it at the right time
[05:23] <hunger> Riddell: Ah, OK then.
[05:23] <Riddell> hunger: any fixes welcome :)
[05:23] <hunger> Riddell: So far I didn't see a "proper" shutdown splash:-)
[05:25] <hunger> Riddell: Currently I need to free up one computer entirely. Maybe after I am done with that.
[05:26] <_mvo_> jono: yes
[05:26] <_mvo_> jono: its part of update-manager
[05:29] <jono> _mvo_, right, so when a new version of Ubuntu comes out, will update-manager tell me ?
[05:29] <_mvo_> jono: yes. there is a thing called "meta-release-file" that knows about available versions of ubuntu
[05:30] <jono> _mvo_, cool. and when a distro changes, what does the user see in the GUI?
[05:31] <_mvo_> jono: http://people.ubuntu.com/~mvo/dist-upgrader/dist-upgrade.png
[05:31] <_mvo_> jono: http://people.ubuntu.com/~mvo/dist-upgrader/dist-upgrade1.png (1-4)
[05:31] <_mvo_> the screenshots are not fully up-to-date
[05:33] <azeem> _mvo_: I suggest renaming "Post upgrade stuff" to "Magic happens here"
[05:33] <jsgotangco> lol
[05:33] <jsgotangco> ubuntu voodoo at work
[05:34] <jono> _mvo_, thanks for that :)
[05:34] <jono> _mvo_, I will write about this in the holy book :)
[05:38] <_mvo_> jono: woah, you write a holy book :) ?
[05:38] <ogra> didnt you know ? 
[05:38] <_mvo_> azeem: haha, the name (fortunately) changed since then. but "magic happens here" is very appropriate
[05:38] <ogra> the ubuntu almanach :)
[05:39] <jono> :)
[05:39] <ogra> (-h in english apparently)
[05:41] <Riddell> seb128, doko: what protocols does openoffice support?  is it just smb:/ ?
[05:46] <doko> Riddell: ftp works as well for me, but there are some bug reports with user logins from the GUI
[05:47] <_mvo_> ogra: btw, I had a quick look at the hwdb nexata stuff, it seems to be only backend related (from a very quick look)
[05:47] <ogra> yep, and minor gui changes for branding
[05:47] <Riddell> doko: so what happens if you open an openoffice file from an unsupported URL, sftp:/ or something?
[05:47] <ogra> i also took a glance but didnt dig deeper
[05:49] <doko> Riddell: try it: oowriter <URL>
[05:49] <ogra> ARGH !!!!
[05:49] <ogra> how do you guys handle debian/patches if patch 99 already exists ? 
[05:49] <fabbione> azeem: you got your files back.. or almost all of them
[05:50] <ogra> apparently it applies patch 100 i just created *before* all others
[05:50] <Riddell> doko: hmm, so having %U in the .desktop file does break things
[05:50] <bddebian> ogra: 99a?
[05:50] <ogra> hmm
[05:50] <crimsun> ogra: there's always 999, 9999, ....
[05:50] <ogra> eeek
[05:50] <ogra> *shudder*
[05:50] <crimsun> yeah, very oogly.
[05:51] <ogra> why cant it just pick up 100 at the right place *sigh*
[05:51] <bddebian> Start using hex :-)
[05:51] <bddebian> ogra: Because it char
[05:51] <ogra> heh
[05:51] <ogra> yes...
[05:52] <doko> Riddell: fix it, it works for Gnome, or you have to use another set if .desktop files.
[05:53] <bddebian> ogra: Or just move all the patches into the source and start over.. ;-P
[05:53] <ogra> haha
[05:53] <ogra> i'm sure thats the right way for a manpage patch in coreutils :P
[05:53] <bddebian> manpage? WTF?  Who uses those?
[05:54] <ogra> i got a bug about it with a two line formatting change ...
[05:54] <ogra> i thought it would be a good fingertraining to relax a bit between the serious ones ...
[05:54] <bddebian> :-)
[05:54] <ogra> tsk ...
[06:01] <Riddell> Kamion: espresso can't resolve archive.ubuntu.com during install to download yaboot, is that a known problem?  the machine has perfect internet access
[06:01] <Kamion> Riddell: yeah, will be fixed by telling apt-get not to upgrade packages (it already has a reasonable version of yaboot on the live filesystem)
[06:01] <Kamion> I think networking probably isn't set up right in the chroot at that point
[06:02] <Riddell> Kamion: how do I tell apt-get not to do that
[06:02] <Riddell> ?
[06:02] <Kamion> Riddell: add --no-upgrade to the apt-get arguments in /usr/lib/espresso/compat/apt-install
[06:02] <Kamion> I haven't tested that yet, but that was my intention
[06:27] <elmo> seen on a galeon dialog 'Save as' box... "Save with content"
[06:27] <elmo> someone deserves a very spethial UI award for that one
[06:28] <LarstiQ> elmo: what, just structure isn't enough for you? :)
[06:35] <siretart> *sigh*. another kernel-abi bump :(
[06:36] <fabbione> siretart: and what is your concern with it?
[06:36] <ogra> fabbione, rebooting :)
[06:36] <fabbione> ogra: you still need to reboot without ABI changes
[06:37] <fabbione> fixes that might affect you are not necessarely in modules
[06:37] <fabbione> and i have never see ANY of you going to unload everything manually to load a fix
[06:37] <ogra> yes, i'd have said "*sigh*. another kernel" :)
[06:37] <fabbione> ogra: prove me wrong
[06:37] <siretart> fabbione: I have to take care that l-r-m are in sync with the kernel when upgrading
[06:37] <fabbione> siretart: when l-r-m is synced, there is a new linux-meta
[06:37] <fabbione> otherwise it will just refuse to install
[06:38] <siretart> hm? will investigate..
[06:38] <fabbione> siretart: i am sure
[06:38] <fabbione> if you have linux-meta installed it will pull in the kernel upgrade at the right time
[06:38] <fabbione> i am happy -20- is out
[06:39] <fabbione> finally we will have gdb on sparc working 100%
[06:39] <fabbione> even on threaded apps
[06:40] <siretart> cool :)
[06:40] <siretart> sparc doesn't care for l-r-m anyway, I assume
[06:41] <fabbione> siretart: yes we do
[06:41] <fabbione> siretart: i have l-r-m on my i386/amd64 desktop
[06:41] <siretart> fabbione: which sparc drivers are in l-r-m?
[06:42] <fabbione> siretart: only some firmwares
[06:42] <siretart> ah. I see
[06:50] <kagou> BenC: i think that  with last version of linux-source you have also close my bug #31502 :) i'm waiting update to verify 
[06:50] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 31502 in linux-source-2.6.15 "Incorrect MAC address on card (00:00:00 in device portion)" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/31502
[06:50] <BenC> kagou: ok
[06:50] <BenC> kagou: it should
[06:51] <kagou> indeed
[07:00] <ogra> Kamion, is there something squeak realted sitting in NEW ?
[07:00] <ogra> *related
[07:01] <Kamion> ogra: not any more, squeak binary accepted
[07:01] <ogra> ah, thanks
[07:06] <j^> BenC are you still maintaining libraw1394?
[07:06] <j^> the debian packages
[07:09] <lamont> mvo: ping
[07:09] <pitti> hey lamont, how are you?
[07:09] <mvo> lamont: pong
[07:10] <mvo> lamont: don't tell me anything about any bugs, I have enough of those already
[07:10] <lamont> mvo: any clue why hppa installs now appear to hang in aptitude right after it says 'Reading exteneded state information'?
[07:10] <lamont> it used to be that the install just bombed out at that point (breezy timeframe) - I just figured that was a natural part of the netboot install.... :-(
[07:11] <lamont> but now it hangs regardless of which dapper image I'm playing with.
[07:11] <Yagisan> Diziet: ping
[07:11] <mvo> lamont: does strace show anything interessting?
[07:12] <lamont> lots of sched_yield() and occasional nanosleep()
[07:12] <mvo> lamont: hm, aptitude is nowdays fully threaded, maybe a problem with that? that is only exposed on hppa for some reason?
[07:12] <mvo> *joy*
[07:12] <lamont> several aptitude invocations worked prior to the hang, but 'Reading extended state information' appears exactly once in syslog
[07:12] <mvo> lamont: use apt-get :P it's still single threaded
[07:13] <lamont> mvo: this is the installer.
[07:13] <Kamion> the installer cannot use apt-get for this
[07:14] <mvo> lamont: does this bug happens on the normal system as well? or only in the installer?
[07:14] <lamont> mvo: dunno yet...
[07:15] <jc-denton> what's the state of beagle in dapper
[07:15] <mvo> lamont: I see. I would love to help debugging it, but I guess I need to log into a hppa system first
[07:15] <jc-denton> can i use it with deskbar?
[07:16] <lamont> mvo: I'll check on it...
[07:17] <lamont> fabbione: you have that hppa box up yet?
[07:17] <mvo> lamont: thanks. I suspect it may be a threading issue
[07:17] <lamont> quite possibly
[07:17] <fabbione> lamont: yes i do have it.
[07:17] <dholbach> jc-denton: try installing python-beagle - but this is more of a #ubuntu question
[07:17] <lamont> fabbione: is that a J box or an rp2470?
[07:17] <fabbione> lamont: it's scheduled for rewiring tomorrow..
[07:17] <lamont> (dark or light grey)
[07:17] <fabbione> j5k
[07:17] <fabbione> dark
[07:17] <lamont> oh, right
[07:17] <fabbione> lamont: i did run out of network cables today
[07:17] <lamont> heh
[07:18] <fabbione> i got them, but i didn't have power to plug them
[07:18] <lamont> iz scary
[07:18] <fabbione> yeah
[07:18] <lamont> mvo: of course, just because you say "threading issue" doesn't mean that it's necessarily a kernel bug...
[07:19] <mvo> lamont: no, that is not what I wanted to say, just the opposite, I suspect it's a bug in aptitudes threading that for some reason is triggered on hppa
[07:19] <janimo> Kamion, do you have moderator powers on u-announce? I sent a mail after subscribing but is still not gone through
[07:20] <lamont> ah, ok
[07:20] <lamont> mvo: what exactly triggers the 'Reading extended state' information?
[07:20] <mvo> lamont: I would have to look that up, IIRC it happens when the normal cache initialization finished (but I guess that is not very helpful)
[07:21] <lamont> well, for reproduction, do I care about Keep-FDs, Status-Fd and such?
[07:22] <mvo> lamont: unlikely, this is stuff to communicate with a fontend
[07:22] <Kamion> janimo: no, I don't; I do know that there's some debate about whether it should be on -devel-announce instead (because -announce has got an awful lot of posts recently for a low-volume announcement list), but you should get an answer on that shortly
[07:22] <lamont> mvo: ok.  - not only that, it's annoying to setup. :-)
[07:23] <janimo> Kamion, ok
[07:23] <janimo> mvo, thanks for the upload :)
[07:24] <ogra> hmm, has anybody experience with rpath ? 
[07:24] <ogra> i'm trying to find patches in an rpath based package ...
[07:26] <mvo> lamont: with what params is aptitude called? I'm looking at the source right now
[07:26] <mvo> lamont: called from the installer that is
[07:29] <Lure> Kamion: around?
[07:29] <Kamion> Lure: hi
[07:29] <Lure> hi, just tested your debug image
[07:30] <Lure> it stops on 63th step (62 presses of Esc are OK)
[07:30] <lamont> mvo: --without-recommends -y install ~t^ubuntu-standard will reproduce it
[07:30] <Kamion> further than I expected
[07:30] <Kamion> let me just dig into exactly where that would be
[07:30] <lamont> amusingly, under gdb, I got to 65% before it hung...
[07:30] <Lure> I have also noted the debug output at the time if that would help
[07:30] <Kamion> might do, shoot
[07:31] <mvo> lamont: a backtrace in paste.ubuntulinux.nl would be very helpful, thanks  :)
[07:31] <lamont> pkg_or_matcher -> pkg_matcher -> pkg_trivial_string_matcher -> regexec -> pthread_mutex_lock -> loop
[07:31] <Lure> Kamion: I need couple of minutes to type down
[07:31] <lamont> mvo: still on the installer machine -> no cut/paste
[07:31] <mvo> lamont: ok, thanks. 
[07:32] <lamont> is that enough to get you started?  lunch folks want to leave...
[07:32] <mvo> lamont: thats enough for now, thanks
[07:32] <mvo> lamont: go and have lunch :)
[07:32] <lamont> mvo: thanks.
[07:35] <Lure> Kamion: added to bug 34592
[07:35] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 34592 in gfxboot-theme-ubuntu "flight 5&6: install hang on ATI x700/x800" [Critical,Needs info]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/34592
[07:36] <Kamion> Lure: thanks; on the phone, but I'll get back to you RSN
[07:37] <Lure> Kamion: no pb (in process of getting kids to bed ;-))
[07:41] <bddebian> infinity: ping?
[07:46] <joelbryan> Hi, is what are the package responsible for the scattered volume icons in desktop?
[07:46] <sladen> joelbryan: nautilus
[07:46] <dholbach> joelbryan: scattered?
[07:46] <joelbryan> yes
[07:47] <dholbach> i'm not quite sure what you mean
[07:48] <joelbryan> the mounted volumes are displayed in desktop, but when I start the desktop, it is arrange scatteredly, overlapping the icons.
[07:48] <dholbach> ah yes, that's nautilus
[07:48] <dholbach> there are around 20 bugs filed about the icon placement behaviour already :-)
[07:49] <joelbryan> I have tinkered a small script that fix those, Bug #38056
[07:49] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 38056 in ubuntu-meta ubuntu-desktop "Fix scattered volume icons in Desktop, and some suggestions to Dapper." [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/38056
[07:51] <jc-denton> dholbach, thx for answer
[07:52] <jc-denton> i was asking mostly about the status..
[07:52] <jc-denton> so this would not be a #ubuntu question i think
[07:52] <jc-denton> but afaik it wont be included in dapper?
[07:52] <dholbach> it is
[07:52] <jc-denton> ah..
[07:53] <dholbach> ubuntu-desktop pull deskbar-applet in
[07:53] <jc-denton> yes i already did that
[07:53] <jc-denton> but what about beagle?
[07:53] <joelbryan> hi, about the script, the icons placement will not be changed, and the volume icons will find their way into the desktop, only the real icons will change it's position.
[07:53] <dholbach> it doesnt depend on it, as it works without it as well
[07:54] <dholbach> about beagle in general, you might want to ask the mono team
[07:54] <tseng> the what now?
[07:55] <elmo> janimo: me
[07:55] <elmo> janimo: Scott doesn't sign his  mails 'James'
[07:55] <janimo> elmo, ok replied re xubunt
[07:56] <tsdgeos> jordi: ping
[07:57] <jordi> tsdgeos: yep
[08:07] <ogra> Kinnison, ping
[08:09] <ogra> hmm, somehow i didnt get a Accepted/Rejected mail for my pwgen upload ...
[08:12] <Kamion> Lure: ok, this is going to be a bit of a counting test I'm afraid
[08:13] <Kamion> Lure: could you boot that image, hit escape 62 times, then hit space 8 times, and tell me what's in the slot labelled 1 of the column labelled pstk?
[08:13] <Kamion> it's "1. 1" here
[08:14] <Lure> Kamion: OK, will reboot in 5-10 minutes or so and report back...
[08:15] <Kamion> Lure: oh, it's on the machine you're IRCing from?
[08:15] <delire> i've just tried out flight6 and have a few experiences/critiques i'd like to share. where should i do this?
[08:15] <Kamion> that's going to suck
[08:15] <Lure> Kamion: I will get to my desktop and start IRC there...
[08:15] <tseng> delire: ideally in launchpad.net/malone as individual bug reports
[08:16] <Kamion> Lure: ah, good, having to reboot and then press keys a precise but large number of times over and over again would be no fun at all
[08:16] <delire> also, how much of the existing artwork (theme, icons, logout dialogue) is intended to remain through to the final Dapper release?
[08:16] <Kamion> Lure: I suspect I'm going to be called away to dinner soon, so apologies if I disappear
[08:16] <Lure> Kamion: no pb, will continue when back...
[08:16] <delire> tseng: they're not necessarily 'bugs' so much as look and feel suggestions, flight6 has a few problems IMO.
[08:16] <tseng> a UI bug is still a bug
[08:17] <delire> right, ok.
[08:17] <tseng> there is already a bug open on the logout dialog for example
[08:17] <delire> tseng: so what i see is intended for the Dapper official release?
[08:17] <delire> tseng: yeah that is pretty awful. i'll read up on that.
[08:17] <tseng> beats me, #ubuntu-artwork
[08:18] <delire> cheers
[08:18] <Kamion> Lure: your parameter stack (pstk) report is a little different from mine, so I'm wondering if this is a consequence of slightly different memory layout due to different numbers of VESA modes returned by the graphics card, or something horrible like that
[08:19] <ogra> mumble mumble ...
[08:19] <Lure> Kamion: interesting - you will get new one soon - I might have copied something from screen (was to lazy to grab my camera to take a picture :-(()
[08:19] <ogra> where is my pwgen upload, grr
[08:19] <Kamion> Lure: it's different enough that it's unlikely to be a transcription error on your part
[08:19] <Kamion> and it doesn't massively surprise me that it differs
[08:20] <Kamion> Lure: the return stack (rstk) on the right-hand side is indeed mostly uninteresting
[08:22] <janimo> elmo, should I repost the xubuntu ann to devel announce? if so is it moderated as well or do I subscribe for posting. thanks
[08:24] <elmo> janimo: you can post it to -d-a, if you like.  it's also moderated, so it doesn't matter whether you subscribe or not first
[08:24] <Kamion> if Lure comes back, somebody please tell him I'm away for dinner and will be back in an hour or two; sorry for unfortunate timing
 if Lure comes back, somebody please tell him I'm away for dinner and will be back in an hour or two; sorry for unfortunate timing
[08:27] <Lure> ogra: thanks
[08:28] <Lure> ogra: can you also copy his instructions about number of space presses (if I recall 8 times)
[08:28] <Lure> ogra: I am on another computer and have no irc logs...
[08:29] <Mithrandir> Lure: 20:13 < Kamion> Lure: could you boot that image, hit escape 62 times, then hit space 8 times, and tell me what's in the slot labelled 1 of the column labelled pstk?
[08:29] <Lure> thanks
[08:29] <Mithrandir> Lure: 20:13 < Kamion> it's "1. 1" here
[08:29] <ogra> ah, Mithrandir beats me :)
[08:31] <delire> tseng: if i wanted to file a bug about the boot process, the way the dapper live CD jumps from splash to vga text in the console, which package would i file it under?
[08:31] <Kamion> Lure: (back briefly)
[08:32] <tseng> delire: usplash
[08:32] <delire> cheers
[08:32] <tseng> delire: usplash
[08:32] <tseng> oh, i was right the first time
[08:32] <Mithrandir> delire: you wouldn't.
[08:32] <Mithrandir> delire: it's already filed.
[08:33] <jc-denton> how is beagle search called in gconf-editor?
[08:33] <Lure> Kamion: ok, was distracted in counting 2 times already ;) (wife, kids...)
[08:33] <Riddell> Kamion: what is self.progress_position in gtkui?
[08:34] <tseng> jc-denton: i'm not sure its called anything
[08:34] <Kamion> Riddell: an object that keeps track of nested progress bar regions; see espresso/progressposition.py for docs
[08:35] <Riddell> ok, sounds fun
[08:35] <Lure> Kamion: it is 1.1
[08:35] <Lure> right hand side also changed this time
[08:36] <Kamion> Lure: ok, hit space another 7 times, what's in pstk 1?
[08:36] <Lure> 0.1
[08:36] <delire> Mithrandir: yep, just saw that when searching for Usplash.. cheers
[08:37] <Kamion> Lure: space another 13 times, pstk 1?
[08:37] <Mithrandir> delire: it's actually a bug in casper, not usplash, though.
[08:37] <delire> right..
[08:37] <Lure> 0.1
[08:38] <sladen> that line of kamion's should go in the quotes file
[08:38] <Lure> sladen: ;)
[08:38] <Kamion> Lure: hit space another 11 times and pstk 1 should be 0.1 again?
[08:38] <Kamion> sladen: which line?
[08:38] <Lure> 0.1
[08:38] <delire> i have another question on bug validity, while waiting for my DHCP lease on a wireless network a prompt pops up with: "Choose password for default keyring", something i've never had to deal with previously, albeit i usually configure such things using iwconfig on the commandline. what is the point of this prompt? i don't remember it being present in Breezy previously.
[08:39] <sladen> Kamion: hit space 62 times...
[08:39] <Kamion> Lure: ok, now if you hit space another 6 times, is pstk empty?
[08:39] <delire> interestingly i just gave a random password and was given a lease as a result.
[08:39] <sladen> delire: is it for the WEP key?
[08:39] <delire> sladen: no, i entered that earlier..
[08:39] <Kamion> sladen: not my fault gfxboot is obscure :-/
[08:39] <delire> sladen: .. in the wireless connection dialog itself
[08:39] <tseng> delire: you add your wep key to the gnome-keyring
[08:40] <Lure> Kamion: no, I would say it hanged on last press 
[08:40] <tseng> delire: you then create a master passord to unlock the keyring later
[08:40] <Lure> there is 0 709....
[08:40] <Kamion> Lure: interesting, that means it's hanging trying to free memory
[08:40] <delire> tseng: right.. then that should be explained. people coming from windows, OSX or other KDE distributions would find that confusing.
[08:40] <Kamion> where's 0 709?
[08:40] <Lure> shit it went away *powered down(
[08:40] <tseng> delire: on each login, you present that password to unlock the keyring and pull out your wep key
[08:40] <Kamion> Lure: heh, no worries
[08:40] <Kamion> Lure: that's pinpointed it very precisely
[08:40] <delire> right ok.. that will need a balloon or 'first time user' text.
[08:40] <Lure> Kamion: it was in pstk 1:
[08:41] <Lure>  (or 0: - it was only one line there)
[08:41] <Lure> line was 0: 0709 something
[08:42] <delire> i discovered it when a friend wrote to me asking me what it was - a KDE user. trying it out myself i also found it confusing as it goes unexplained.
[08:42] <Kamion> "0:    70e3e. 4" here
[08:42] <ivoks> um... i'm interested in helping with UCE
[08:42] <ivoks> since i have some exp. with RHCE
[08:43] <ogra> UCE ??
[08:43] <ivoks> (and wouldn't like to see UCE so easy as RHCE :)
[08:43] <Kamion> Lure: probably 709a0. 4, since that was in the trace you mailed earlier
[08:43] <ivoks> pardon, UCP
[08:43] <Kamion> that's what I'd expect
[08:43] <ivoks> Ubuntu Certified Professional
[08:43] <Lure> yep, I am sure it was a next
[08:43] <ogra> ah
[08:43] <delire> tseng: out of interest, why is the loopback device in the devices menu in the top-bar? is there a valid reason for it to be there?
[08:43] <delire> s/devices/netork devices
[08:43] <delire> bah you get the idea ;)
[08:43] <Lure> but it was only one line (no 1: as during "space pressing times")
[08:43] <ogra> ivoks, i'd suggest to answer silbs mail then :)
[08:44] <tseng> delire: i am unfortunately not able to answer every question that pops into your head
[08:44] <Kamion> Lure: right
[08:44] <Kamion> Lure: thanks, I think I'm done with you for tonight :-/
[08:44] <Kamion> :-)
[08:44] <delire> tseng: bizarre, i thought you were The Architect! ;)
[08:44] <ivoks> ogra: :)
[08:44] <delire> tseng: cheers, i'll ask around.
[08:44] <Kamion> Lure: I'll look at this again tomorrow; worst case I'll just leak a bit of memory
[08:44] <tseng> delire: great, have a nice day.
[08:45] <Kamion> which I expect will make the problem go away
[08:45] <Lure> Kamion: ok, just ping me if you need remote testing still
[08:45] <Kamion> it's a bit concerning though, seems like the malloc arena's a bit trashed
[08:45] <Kamion> but I'm buggered if I'm sitting trying to decipher all this assembly code
[08:46] <Lure> so spaces were really steps over individual instructions? I can imagine
[08:46] <Lure> :-(
[08:46] <Kamion> Lure: actually that wasn't in assembly, that was in a forth-like language
[08:47] <Kamion> Lure: but yes, I had you single-stepping
[08:47] <Kamion> the assembly in question is the implementation of the gfxboot language
[08:47] <Kamion> the infinite loop is, I think, in its 'free' operator
[08:47] <Lure> Kamion: any idea why it turned off this time - side effect of debugging?
[08:48] <Kamion> Lure: could be, not sure about that
[08:48] <Kamion> Lure: it might have just crashed
[08:48] <Kamion> I think all bets are probably off
[08:48] <Lure> right
[08:49] <Lure> ok, now run for dinner ;-)
[08:49] <Kamion> oh, I wonder ...
[08:49] <Kamion> I think I'm double-freeing
[08:49] <Kamion> or not. maybe. hmm. later :)
[08:50] <mdz> Kamion,pitti: I see syncs on dapper-changes, everything running smoothly there?
[08:51] <Kamion> mdz: not me, last I heard pitti had a hacked-up home-grown sync tool
[08:51] <Kamion> lp_queue user's history has not a lot interesting in terms of syncs
[08:51] <elmo> it runs as lp_archive
[08:51] <elmo> for starters :P
[08:51] <mjg59> Kamion: So the Macs will boot off a hybrid filesystem
[08:51] <Kamion> ah, heh
[08:52] <mjg59> Though right now the only way of generating one seems to be under MacOS
[08:52] <Kamion> elmo: I think I could be forgiven for being confused by ~lp_queue/HOWTO-SYNC
[08:52] <sladen> Kamion: do you have new-style blessing stuff ported somewhere?
[08:53] <Kamion> sladen: no, Keybuk's working on it I think, and there's no point until there's some free way to make a filesystem
[08:53] <elmo> Kamion: well for added fun and confusion, the sync tool runs as lp_archive, the actual processing of syncs is done by lp_queue
[08:53] <elmo> whole directory under /home is crack that happened towards the end of the sprint anyway
[08:53] <Kamion> elmo: ~lp_queue/HOWTO-SYNC says to write stuff to a directory that's only writable by lp_queue
[08:53] <lamont> mvo: current dapper gets as far as 'Building tag database... Done'
[08:53] <elmo> Kamion: yes, but the sync tool needs to talk to the db, and it can't do that as lp_queue
[08:53] <Kamion> ah, I see ~lp_archive/syncs/ though
[08:53] <Kamion> elmo: ah
[08:53] <elmo> so you run josie-port as lp_archive
[08:53] <Kamion> I filed a bug about that ...
[08:53] <elmo> then copy by hand to the crackful /home/lpqueue stuff and it gets processed there
[08:54] <elmo> lp_queue probably shouldn't be able to talk to the db
[08:54] <elmo> even in RO mode
[08:54] <elmo> and besides, lp_archive is in %lp_queue, so it can write to the lp_queue dir
[08:54] <mdz> pitti's look like they might be a different tool (eg., Origin: debian/unstable)
[08:54] <elmo> yay for reinventing the wheel
[08:54] <mdz> though infinity's mysql-dfsg-5.0 looks like josie (Origin; Debian/unstable)
[08:54] <Kamion> elmo: er, it can?
[08:54] <Kamion> $ ls -ld ~lp_queue/sync-queue/
[08:54] <Kamion> drwxr-xr-x  6 lp_queue lp_queue 4096 Feb 22 20:55 /home/lp_queue/sync-queue/
[08:55] <Kamion> or you mean it can sudo?
[08:55] <elmo> Kamion: well if that dir was g+ws, it could
[08:56] <mdz> fabbione: is it helpful to reassign server bugs from xorg to xorg-server, or not really?
[08:56] <Kamion> https://launchpad.net/products/soyuz/+bug/35723 was the sync-source database access bug I think
[08:56] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 35723 in soyuz "sync-source should not connect as the 'ro' user" [Normal,Confirmed]  
[08:56] <mdz> I think most of the bugs on the xorg source package are server bugs currently
[08:56] <elmo> ?!
[08:56] <Kamion> elmo: stub thinks it should have a special user created
[08:56] <elmo> oh, but still a ro only user
[08:57] <Kamion> right
[08:57] <elmo> god that inline control stuff is fugly
[08:57] <Kamion> elmo: ok, so if we follow the ~lp_queue/HOWTO-SYNC directions but substitute copying files around in the "obvious" way, it should work?
[08:57] <ogra> mdz, fabbione explained it like that: "all configuration bugs should go to the xorg package, all others schould be assigned to the respective server"
[08:57] <elmo> Kamion: it'll work for syncs without UTF-8 Maintainer: fields, AFAIK
[08:57] <bddebian> bon jour
[08:58] <elmo> Kamion: you'll need to setup $http_proxy too, when running it as lp_archive
[08:58] <elmo> Kamion: I'm working on the UTF-8 thing ATM (see, e.g. listadmin, as a current broken example)
[08:58] <mvo> lamont: I'm having dinner right now, but does current dapper has the same backtrace?
[08:59] <mdz> ogra: respective?
[08:59] <mdz> ogra: surely configuration bugs should be xorg-server, and driver-specific bugs to the driver packages
[08:59] <lamont> mvo: differnt
[08:59] <ogra> mdz, exactly
[08:59] <mvo> lamont: what does it look like?
[09:00] <lamont> just a minute
[09:00] <mvo> lamont: you don't have network on the hppa machine to mail it or something?
[09:01] <lamont> this one, yes.
[09:01] <danimo> hi
[09:01] <lamont> mvo@u.c?
[09:02] <mvo> lamont: should work, yes
[09:02] <danimo> is there a reason NetworkManager-openvpn is not included in dapper?
[09:02] <Pygi> danimo: hm, why can't you just install it? =P
[09:02] <lamont> very similar backtrace actually
[09:02] <lamont> sent
[09:02] <mvo> lamont: thanks!
[09:03] <Pygi> when you didn't had vpn support you argued about that (not you really, but a lot of people), and now when you have it you want more :)
[09:03] <lamont> this time, pkg_task_matcher::matches() -> regexec() --> death
[09:03] <danimo> Pygi: I'd like to, I must be missing the package
[09:04] <mvo> lamont: have it, thanks
[09:04] <lamont> mvo: I just wonder who's not freeing the mutex...
[09:05] <mvo> lamont: and why hppa triggers it
[09:05] <delire> anyone know of plans to implement the Ubuntu equivalent of 'internet connection sharing' in dapper? eg an easy interface to iptables w/forwarding etc. something people in non-dsl territory would say is fairly vital..
[09:05] <lamont> well, more interested in how to make hppa not trigger it...
[09:05] <_ion> Cool, n-m 0.6.2 is already in dapper.
[09:06] <Seveas> delire, sudo apt-get install firestarter - please go to #ubuntu for end-user support
[09:06] <Pygi> _ion: yes, it is...ages ago ^_^
[09:06] <_ion> Yeah, i dist-upgrade every once in a while. :-)
[09:06] <danimo> Pygi: not sure what you are trying to tell me
[09:06] <ogra> mdz, elmo, any idea how we should handle fonts where the license in the ttf file differs from the license in the copyright file ? if i want to edit TSCu_Comic.ttf from the ttf-indic-fonts package with pfaedit, it tells me the included license in the ttf doesnt permit changes without agreement of the original author, but the package is GPL
[09:06] <Pygi> danimo: hm ... well, just openvpn, and start nm-vpn-properties? :)
[09:06] <_ion> Just happened to notice it.
[09:07] <elmo> ogra: err, which copyright file?
[09:07] <delire> Seveas: this isn't end user support.. just a query as it's a project i was considering undertaking at one point.
[09:07] <ogra> elmo, debian/copyright 
[09:07] <ogra> elmo, in ttf-indic-fonts
[09:07] <danimo> Pygi: we're talking dapper from universe?
[09:07] <danimo> dapper packages even
[09:07] <_ion> http://irc-galleria.net/view.php?nick=Ion
[09:07] <mvo> lamont: I'll have a look. is there a hppa machine where this can be debugged?
[09:07] <elmo> ogra: debian/copyright isn't canonical?  whatever is in the upstream source is
[09:08] <lamont> mvo: email me an ssh key
[09:08] <Seveas> _ion, freaky 
[09:08] <Pygi> danimo: yesh ^_^
[09:08] <ogra> elmo, hmm, so the ttf file overrides ?
[09:08] <elmo> ogra: yeah
[09:09] <ogra> odd
[09:09] <ogra> ok
[09:09] <sivang> re all
[09:10] <_ion> seveas: Well, that was gimped. This is my real face. http://johan.kiviniemi.name/pictures/misc/ion-faceless
[09:11] <danimo> Pygi: can't find a package that contains nm-vpn-properties
[09:11] <janimo> delire, there were firewall/conn sharing specs but got deferred for lack of developer resources
[09:11] <janimo> one is in the works for dapper+1
[09:11] <Pygi> danimo: hm, there just isn't link for it, but it's there
[09:12] <Pygi> there are two forum topics about that...please post there? ^_^
[09:12] <elmo> Message for booting on non-x86_64 machine (32-bit) (X86_64_NOLONG_MSG) [Your CPU does not support long mode. Use a 32bit distribution.]  (NEW)
[09:12] <delire> janimo: right.. is there an URL, i may be able to help..
[09:12] <elmo> give that developer a UI award too
[09:12] <janimo> delire, I don;t have it rigth now but you can search for it on launchpad
[09:12] <janimo> but maybe google finds it faster 
[09:12] <delire> janimo: will do. thanks alot.. firestarter is pretty lacking in this regard.
[09:13] <danimo> Pygi: dpkg -L doesn't think so :)
[09:13] <mdz> ogra: there's no explicit license from upstream apart from whatever flag is set in the ttf?
[09:13] <Lure> danimo: n-m-vpn packages are still not in repo (not sure if anybody is working on them)
[09:13] <ogra> Copyright:
[09:13] <ogra> The followings Tamil OpenType fonts have been released under the GNU
[09:13] <ogra> General Public License. The fonts are copyright of the respective authors.
[09:13] <ogra> 1. TSCu_Times, TSCu_Comic
[09:13] <ogra>    Thukkaram Gopalrao, USA
[09:13] <ogra>    http://www.thinnai.com/
[09:13] <janimo> delire, https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/firewall
[09:13] <Lure> but there is one repo (check forums) wher you can get it
[09:13] <danimo> Lure: ok, that was what I suspected
[09:13] <Pygi> danimo: bah, just ask the people on the forum...people are running vpn's, but you need to make sure you do certain stuff =P
[09:14] <_ion> OpenVPN support would be nice, as i use it. :-)
[09:14] <janimo> looks like it should b ready by May 1st
[09:14] <ogra> mdz, but opening it in a glyph editor explicitly states that its not allowed to change the font without premissin
[09:14] <danimo> Pygi: I just want to make sure it ends up in dapper and works with KDE
[09:14] <Lure> danimo: I just know it works (with knm) for some time, as Tonio have sent me screenshot a week ago
[09:14] <Pygi> danimo: perhaps it will ^_^
[09:14] <Lure> already with 0.6.1
[09:14] <mdz> ogra: an explicit license from upstream qualifies as "permission"
[09:14] <danimo> Lure: ah, cool
[09:15] <Lure> danimo: I can forward you that mail - just sand me your e-mail address
[09:15] <ogra> mdz, so i should assume GPL ?
[09:15] <delire> janimo: brilliant.. this looks good. thanks ;)
[09:15] <mdz> ogra: if that's what it says in the upstream tarball, yes
[09:15] <mdz> ogra: (not debian/copyright)
[09:15] <ogra> ohoel, right ... 
[09:16] <ogra> mdz, hrm, the orig.tar.gz is native :/
[09:16] <ogra> so i have to respect the builtin license in the ttf i guess ...
[09:16] <mdz> ogra: which bug# is this about?
[09:17] <ogra> bug 35349
[09:17] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 35349 in ttf-indic-fonts "edubuntu  incorrect in desktop" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/35349
[09:17] <Riddell> danimo: what's up?
[09:19] <mdz> ogra: I'd forward it to Debian with a note that the license needs to be clarified, and move on to another bug
[09:19] <danimo> Riddell: I'm just making some trouble
[09:19] <pitti> Riddell: do you think there is anyone in the KDE community who would like to work on porting kdeprinter to cups 1.2? Maybe we can bounty it?
[09:19] <danimo> Riddell: as usual :)
[09:19] <danimo> Riddell: seriously, though, I'll ask tonio to package the vpn plugin for n-m
[09:19] <danimo> Riddell: since that's really most useful
[09:20] <ogra> mdz, ok, but i consider it major as long as we ship that font as default ... 
[09:20] <ogra> my pwgen upload still doesnt show up 
[09:20] <mdz> ogra: I don't understand why you are using a different font for edubuntu than ubuntu uses
[09:20] <mdz> perhaps that should be revisited
[09:21] <ogra> mdz, we use a completely different look 
[09:21] <_ion> ** (nm-applet:24038): WARNING **: <WARNING>      nma_dbus_init (): nma_dbus_init() could not acquire its service.  dbus_bus_acquire_service() says: 'Connection ":1.26" is not allowed to own the service "org.freedesktop.NetworkManagerInfo" due to security policies in the configuration file'
[09:21] <ogra> why should we use the same font ? 
[09:21] <_ion> I wonder what's the correct way to fix this.
[09:21] <mdz> ogra: fonts are less about the look and more about functionality and language support
[09:21] <pitti> _ion: did you start n-m from a remote shell, or so?
[09:21] <mdz> ogra: we have to choose them very carefully in order to work well for most users
[09:21] <_ion> pitti: Nope.
[09:21] <pitti> _ion: do you have /var/run/console/<yourlogin>.7?
[09:22] <pitti> _ion: (or whatever your foreground console is)
[09:22] <Mez> hmm
[09:22] <Mez> gnome-btdownload is a pretty borked package atm
[09:22] <ogra> mdz, yes, i know ... its trivial to fix and add the handfull of missing glyphs though ... that what bothers me ...
[09:22] <_ion> pitti: Hm, /var/run/console doesn't exist.
[09:22] <pitti> _ion: do you have libpam-foreground?
[09:22] <Mez> /var/lib/dpkg/info/gnome-btdownload.prerm: line 5: gconf-schemas: command not found
[09:22] <Riddell> pitti: Cristian Tibirna is the maintainer
[09:22] <_ion> pitti: Yes.
[09:23] <mdz> ogra: except where missing glyphs are being provided by a different font, then you change that behaviour, etc....it's rarely simple
[09:23] <pitti> _ion: /etc/pam.d/common-session has pam_foreground?
[09:23] <_ion> pitti: Anything in /etc/pam.d doesn't contain the string foreground.
[09:23] <mdz> and it takes a long time for enough users to test it to get feedback for many languages
[09:23] <pitti> _ion: did you manually modify anything there?
[09:23] <crimsun> Mez: missing dep on gconf2?
[09:24] <Mez> crimsun, gconf2 is installed
[09:24] <janimo> mvo, u-m still deps on python-gnome2
[09:24] <Mez> but gconf2-common isnt
[09:24] <mdz> Mez: gconf2 depends on gconf2-common
[09:24] <Mez> crimsun: and it';s breaking an upgrade to dapper
[09:24] <mvo> janimo: right, forgot to fix that
[09:25] <_ion> pitti: I have modified it to authenticate from LDAP, but i thought that was the only modification i had made. And i have looked at diffs when new package versions of the config file have appeared. But maybe i have missed something.
[09:25] <ogra> mdz, hmm... k i'll put it into the edubuntu meeting tomorrow to get some feedback if we shuld change it ... but i suspect the users wont be happy to have something sans serif on their desktop :)
[09:25] <Mez> mdz: weird 
[09:25] <Mez> http://rafb.net/paste/results/PlDAkv87.html
[09:25] <pitti> _ion: hm, this might justify a bug against libpam-foreground
[09:25] <mvo> janimo: what about this deal ... once your fake-gconf is actually working I drop the depends and make it a recommend ;) ?
[09:26] <seb128> Mez: you are trying to install a package built with new gconf on a box with an outdated one?
[09:26] <janimo> mvo, ah ok. I just made u-m a dep of xubuntu-desktop
[09:26] <janimo> need to hurry
[09:26] <Mez> seb128, I'm trying to upgrade from breezy to dapper
[09:27] <seb128> Mez: that's a gnome-btdownload bug so
[09:28] <Mez> seb128, obviously
[09:28] <seb128> Mez: I'm fixing it now
[09:28] <seb128> it doesn't use ${misc:Depends} for its control
[09:28] <Mez> seb128, ah cool :D well... er :D
[09:28] <Mez> I'm overriding the prerm file ;)
[09:28] <seb128> Mez: you wanted to fix it?
[09:29] <seb128> Mez: upgrade gconf first if you want to get it fixed cleanly
[09:29] <Mez> seb128, no - I just wanted to upgrade to dapper :D
[09:29] <seb128> other way gnome-btdownload will not be registred correct
[09:29] <Mez> seb128, I dont mind unclean fixes as long as they're fixes
[09:29] <Mez> seb128, I've removed it
[09:29] <mdke> elmo, Znarl, it.archive.ubuntu.com isn't working. shall I file an RT for that sort of thing?
[09:30] <Riddell> pitti: shall I send him an e-mail?
[09:30] <Znarl> mdke : No, it's ok.  I'll point it.archive at ourselves and contact the admin. 
[09:30] <mdke> Znarl, thanks very much
[09:30] <Znarl> Thanks for letting me know.
[09:30] <pitti> Riddell: let's talk with mdz
[09:30] <pitti> mdz: would there be room for a bounty to port kdeprint to cups 1.2?
[09:31] <pitti> mdz: right now we had to revert to cups 1.1
[09:31] <mdz> pitti: yes
[09:32] <mdz> pitti: assuming an acceptable stabilization risk
[09:32] <mdz> in the balance between cups and kdeprint
[09:32] <pitti> mdz: in the same line, would you even consider upgrading cups to 1.2rc1? I didn't upgrade our snapshot since UVF so far
[09:33] <elmo> oh, right, I forgot to ask
[09:33] <elmo> can we upgrade dovecot?
[09:33] <pitti> elmo: already done a couple of hours ago
[09:33] <elmo> otherwise our supported pop3/imap server is going to be an alpha version
[09:33] <elmo> pitti: ok
[09:33] <elmo> now it's only a beta ;-)
[09:33] <mdke_> which is the supported pop/imap server?
[09:33] <pitti> elmo: I did some basic imap[s] /pop3[s]  fetchmail/mutt/evo testing today which went well
[09:33] <mdke_> out of interest
[09:34] <ogra> dholbach, i need to add dh_iconcache to the app ? not to the package installing the icon ?
[09:34] <elmo> mdke: see the 'can we upgrade' line
[09:34] <mdke_> elmo, I disconnected during that line
[09:34] <elmo> mdke_: dovecot
[09:34] <mdke_> ah good, thanks
[09:35] <pitti> mdz: cups 1.2rc1 has tons of bug fixed, but also a fair number of new features and changes, so it would require some serious testing
[09:35] <dholbach> ogra: to the debian/rules of the source package of the app installing the file to /usr/share/icons/{hicolor,gnome}
[09:35] <dholbach> ogra: is that precise? :-p
[09:35] <ogra> dholbach, thinking about theme packages like edubuntu-artwork (which adds a distributor logo)
[09:35] <bddebian> Bah, there's no better test than production.. :)
[09:36] <ogra> dholbach, and it applies only to /{hicolor,gnome} ? no other icon themes ? 
[09:36] <dholbach> ogra: if it installs stuff to hicolor (as ubuntu-artwork does), then yes
[09:36] <ogra> i dont ... we use gartoon and tango brown
[09:36] <dholbach> ogra: that's the ones we'd like to use the icon cache for (we run it for Tango already)
[09:36] <pitti> bddebian: well, but dapper was specifically meant *not* to be like bananas :)
[09:36] <mdz> pitti: would be worth considering
[09:36] <dholbach> ogra: and those are safe, since no package installs stuff to /usr/share/icons/Tango
[09:36] <ogra> dholbach, nope it doesnt :) 
[09:36] <bddebian> pitti: :_)
[09:37] <dholbach> ogra: if you want to it for gartoon, that's fine too
[09:37] <ogra> dholbach, /usr/share/icons/TangoBrown is its own theme
[09:37] <dholbach> ogra: just add   dh_iconcache  to the debian/rules
[09:37] <ogra> i didnt want to clash with tango upstream 
[09:37] <ogra> ok
[09:37] <_ion> pitti: Ok, i added the proper line for libpam-foreground, now it works.
[09:37] <pitti> Riddell: ok, could you please mail him then? if we can get the port in the timeframe of 2 weeks, we can upgrade/test cups in parallel
[09:37] <ogra> dholbach, thanks
[09:37] <dholbach> ogra: anytime
[09:38] <Riddell> pitti: ok
[09:38] <pitti> Riddell: thanks
[09:38] <seb128> mdz: xchat-gnome upstream asked if we would consider an UVF exception if they roll a new tarball. They have some bug fixes to SVN and a configuration dialog for the spell checker ... do you think it would be ok?
[09:39] <pitti> mdz: ok, I'll wait for KDE's answer then and will prepare a test pacakge and a detailled report
[09:41] <ogra> who apart from Kinnison can look into the upload queue ? elmo ?
[09:42] <elmo> err, me, kamion, pitti, mdz, infinity
[09:42] <elmo> cprov
[09:42] <pitti> oh, can I?
[09:42] <pitti> I don't have a drescher account
[09:43] <nowlin> hey are network.manager broken in dapper or is it just me. i got this wen trying to run it :   The NetworkManager applet could not find some required resources.  It cannot continue.
[09:43] <elmo> you don't?
[09:43] <elmo> neat
[09:43] <elmo> ok, -pitti
[09:43] <elmo> the rest are definitely true tho
[09:43] <pitti> yes
[09:43] <ogra> ogra@edubuntu:/mnt/devel/packages$ ls -l pwgen*.upload
[09:43] <ogra> -rw-r--r-- 1 ogra ogra 228 2006-04-04 19:43 pwgen_2.04-1ubuntu1_source.upload
[09:43] <ogra> elmo, could you look if thats there anywhere ? 
[09:43] <mdz> seb128: if it's only bug fixes, yes
[09:44] <ogra> i have no accepted/Rejected mail and it doesnt show up on changes
[09:44] <ogra> (it was a one word change in a manpage)
[09:44] <bddebian> Rejects don't come back some times.  I've had that happen a couple of times recently
[09:44] <janimo> elmo, if you moderate the u-d-a list as well, please kick my mail to go through. thanks
[09:44] <elmo> ./failed/upload-20060404-184347-002508/pwgen_2.04-1ubuntu1.dsc
[09:44] <ogra> oh
[09:44] <bddebian>  unstable?
[09:45] <elmo> Distribution: unstable
[09:45] <ogra> ogra@edubuntu:/mnt/devel/packages$ grep dsc pwgen_2.04-1ubuntu1_source.upload
[09:45] <ogra> Successfully uploaded ../pwgen_2.04-1ubuntu1.dsc to upload.ubuntu.com.
[09:45] <bddebian> heh
[09:45] <ogra> argh
[09:45] <bddebian> I did that too :-)
[09:45] <ogra> silly beginners error 
[09:45] <ogra> #/me blushes
[09:45] <ogra> elmo, thanks and sorry for stealing your time
[09:46] <dholbach> Kinnison: seb128 just told me: gparted 0.2.4 *whine*
[09:46] <elmo> janimo: done
[09:46] <janimo> thanks
[09:48] <bddebian> Ack, how am I supposed to get the /usr/include/IV-2_6/InterViews path in?  Is there some automake magic or do I have to force -I?
[09:50] <bddebian> Oh, it's ivmkmf ugh
[09:53] <Riddell> janimo: congratulations
[09:53] <janimo> Riddell: thanks :)
[09:54] <Treenaks> Seveas: doh @ post
[09:55] <Riddell> ogra: a calcuator
[09:55] <ogra> Riddell, ah, mdz assigned two bugs for it to me ... didnt ever hear about it before :)
[09:55] <Riddell> ogra: oh, well you can send them back to me if you want
[09:56] <ogra> let me look first ... one is a trivial one ..
[09:56] <sabdfl>  /invite bddebian #darkroom oops ;-)
[09:56] <bddebian> hehe
[09:56] <sivang> sabdfl: darkroom? :-)
[09:57] <pitti> janimo: just saw your flight-6 annoucement; congratulations!
[09:57] <ogra> huggers
[09:57] <janimo> pitti, thanks :)
[09:57] <ogra> wow, you lucky man ... 400MB isos 
[09:57] <ogra> thats what i'm dreaming of
[09:57] <sivang> heh
[09:58] <sivang> that's all about lightweight desktops :)
[09:58] <janimo> pitti, re the libpam_foreground thing. I found that if a shell has the privileges, starting xinit from it does not inherit
[09:58] <janimo> ogra, yeah I can borrow you 100Megs
[09:58] <ogra> heh
[09:59] <ogra> Riddell, are tooltips handled by QT or ba the app in QT apps ? 
[09:59] <ogra> s/ba/by/
[09:59] <ogra> (bug 26361)
[09:59] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 26361 in speedcrunch "speedcrunch does not terminate if tooltip is visible" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/26361
[09:59] <janimo> pitti, so that's why I cannot shutdown via hal if startx-ed instead of gnome. Still have to figure out why
[10:00] <pitti> janimo: hm, apparently it does not cause the PAM magic to happen; maybe mjg59 has a hint for you
[10:01] <Riddell> ogra: by qt generally
[10:01] <ogra> Riddell, so reassigning it to QT would be right ?
[10:02] <janimo> pitti, I have started reading up on pam so it's going to be instructive I guess
[10:02] <Riddell> ogra: well it's probably speedcrunch using tooltips in the wrong way, I'd keep it at speedcrunch
[10:03] <ogra> ok
[10:10] <LaserJock> is there a canonical location to put browser plugins?
[10:39] <bddebian> Should X11R6 be removed in everything in debian/ ?
[10:46] <bddebian> Should /usr/X11R6/bin be replaced with /usr/X11/bin or just /usr/bin?
[10:47] <LaserJock> so many questions, so few answers
[10:47] <zul> if a tree falls in the forest....nahhhh..
[10:48] <bddebian> if God can make a rock so heavy that he can't lift it...
[10:48] <LaserJock> if bddebian can fix Universe ...
[10:49] <bddebian> Bah, apparently I can't fix anything :-(
[10:49] <gdiebel> I have done some looking into zope on dapper and it doesn't look pleasant. Could someone elaborate on the status of zope3 packages in dapper?
[10:52] <Burgwork> gdiebel, I believe you need to talk to ajmitch 
[10:52] <LaserJock> gdiebel: I haven't a clue but ajmitch might know. He does a far amount of zope/plone stuff
[10:52] <LaserJock> doh, Burgwork beat me to it
[10:54] <bddebian> Ack there is no /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/config or /usr/lib/X11/config ...
[10:55] <bddebian> Who's the X slut these days, infinity?
[10:56] <mdke> there is an X swat team in LP, members of that are the sluts, I guess
[10:57] <bddebian> Well I don't want to file a bug for something I should be able to fix myself
[10:57] <KaiL> has somebody tested dapper flight6 on a typical Core Duo Laptop? found quite a lot big problems
[10:58] <mdke> bddebian, well fabbione, infinity, and two non-devs are in that group, so you could try pinging them
[10:59] <KaiL> infinity, btw. you wanted to send ATi X1000+ to vesa driver ;)
[11:00] <LaserJock> KaiL: on an macbook pro?
[11:00] <KaiL> LaserJock, does that have this chip too?
[11:00] <KaiL> uhm, yes
[11:00] <KaiL> X1600
[11:01] <LaserJock> KaiL: umm, I thought it was the only laptop with a Core Duo
[11:01] <KaiL> uhm, no?
[11:01] <KaiL> today had my fun with an FSC Amilo
[11:01] <LaserJock> oh, I stand corrected then :-)
[11:01] <LaserJock> I've got an intel iMac that I'd like to get Dapper on
[11:02] <LaserJock> mjg59: is Flight 6 ready to test in an intel mac?
[11:02] <KaiL> at least the "ati" driver fails on X1400, X1600 and friends
[11:03] <LaserJock> :(
[11:03] <KaiL> so you need to select "vesa" on normal i386
[11:03] <LaserJock> oh, well that would be acceptable for now
[11:03] <KaiL> don#t know, if that is possible on intel-macs too (afaik they are something special there)
[11:04] <KaiL> second problem, which does not hit the apple, but the Centrinos is the WLAN chip
[11:04] <KaiL> there seams to be no driver in flight 6
[11:04] <KaiL> and you need to exchance the kernel to have both cores
[11:05] <KaiL> and I forgot to test dynamical CPU clock - damn
[11:12] <Kamion> LaserJock: no, Intel Macs won't work at all yet, sorry
[11:13] <LaserJock> Kamion: shoot, it's ok. I'm getting used to development over ssh ;-)
[11:17] <bddebian> Wow, python2.3-* is pretty much gone?
[11:53] <KaiL> oh, btw, is that only me, who has the wrong icon Theme on the flight6 live CD?