[01:28] <Burgwork> ugh, anybody got a tux magazine "subscription" so they coudl send me the pdf without pain?
[03:35] <frank__> hi. I have a suggestion for a change in the kubuntu desktop guide. I don't really have the time to learn what is needed to submit a patch. Would a simple suggestion be appropriate? Where? ubuntu-doc mailing list?
[03:36] <jjesse> frank__: that would be great to the mailing list thanks :()
[03:36] <jjesse> doh wrong smily
[03:36] <jjesse> :)
[03:37] <frank__> jjesse: ok. thanks. that kubuntu desktop guide is great! I've been trying to test kubuntu dapper from a new user's perspective. There is lots of good info in there!
[03:37] <jjesse> frank__: thanks robotgeek_zzz has beeen working on makig it great :)
[03:57] <robotgeek> frank__: here now, but mailing list would be great. (falky wireless)
[03:57] <robotgeek> flaky
[04:45] <robotgeek> frank__: thanks for the tip :)
[04:46] <frank__> robotgeek: np 
[04:49] <robotgeek> damn, kcontrol / System Settings has crapped out on me!
[04:49] <robotgeek> Module Disks & Filesystems not found!
[04:51] <robotgeek> frank__: i will type the instructions up, would you be able to verify them for me?
[04:51] <robotgeek> howdy LaserJock 
[04:52] <frank__> robotgeek: sure
[04:55] <LaserJock> hi robotgeek 
[04:56] <jjesse> hello LaserJock 
[04:58] <LaserJock> hi jjesse 
[04:58] <jjesse> wow currently i have 45 screenshots in the kubuntu chapter (
[04:59] <LaserJock> how are the Kubuntu writers doing?
[04:59] <jjesse> good and how are u?
[04:59] <Madpilot> hi all
[05:00] <jjesse> hola madpilot
[05:00] <LaserJock> well, I'll be much better when Dapper is released
[05:01] <robotgeek> jjesse: did you take screenshots?
[05:01] <robotgeek> hey Madpilot 
[05:01] <jjesse> robotgeek: not yet, just have the reference markers
[05:01] <robotgeek> LaserJock: busy little elves :)
[05:01] <Madpilot> hi robotgeek 
[05:02] <robotgeek> jjesse: hmm, okay
[05:03] <jjesse> robotgeek: yeah still re working portions of things
[05:04] <robotgeek> jjesse: i think it might be good to move the getting help appendix as a part of the first chapter
[05:05] <robotgeek> that way, i can also talk a little about accessing KDE help
[05:05] <jjesse> in the desktopguide ?
[05:05] <robotgeek> jjesse: yes
[05:05] <robotgeek> jjesse: kde is documented pretty well, and people should know i think
[05:06] <jjesse> robotgeek: sounds like a great idea to me, don't recall of the top of my head but do you mention that the help docs are avilable from konq's main page?
[05:06] <jjesse> robotgeek: yeah kde is VERY well documentated
[05:06] <robotgeek> jjesse: nope. nothing about that help
[05:06] <jjesse> might be nice to mention
[05:08] <robotgeek> jjesse: okay then, i'll move the appendix to the chapter 1 :)
[05:08] <jjesse> robotgeek: sounds like a plan, btw why do i still see a robotgeek_zzz on the screen, messes up tab completion for me :(
[05:08] <frank__> robotgeek: if I have more random suggestions, should I post them on the mailing list as well?
[05:09] <robotgeek> jjesse: are you sure, i don't see him :)
[05:09] <robotgeek> frank__: sure, that would be great!
[05:10] <jjesse> frank__: post away and then soon you will making patches and committing them :)
[05:11] <Madpilot> yay, Misc. Tips in UDG is dead, dead, dead :P
[05:12] <frank__> jjesse: yeah. if I start nitpicking, it would be easier if I just make changed myself ;)
[05:13] <robotgeek> Madpilot: looks like i'll have to mirror, nice changes
[05:14] <frank__> jjesse: how does it work? I submit a patch and someone reviews and integrates it? Or it just goes in?
[05:14] <jjesse> frank__: to start off you submit a patch to the mailing list, person in charge of doc reviews it
[05:14] <jjesse> frank__: then it is commited
[05:14] <jjesse> frank__: after a while and you are ubuntu member, you get granted subversion commit access
[05:15] <jjesse> assumming the patches are good and don't require a lot of re working
[05:15] <frank__> jjesse: ok
[05:16] <frank__> jjesse: is there a documentation freeze deadline? or can there be changes right up till release?
[05:16] <jjesse> there is a doc freeeze end of week if i recall correctly
[05:16] <frank__> jjesse: end of which week?
[05:17] <jjesse> this week
[05:17] <robotgeek> frank__: http://kubuntu.pastebin.com/639180
[05:17] <frank__> jjesse: really? why so soon?
[05:17] <robotgeek> april 6th
[05:17] <robotgeek> frank__: translations
[05:17] <jjesse> frank__: upload the docs into rosetta
[05:17] <Madpilot> robotgeek, sometime before our freeze I need to go thru KDG and borrow changes you've made, too
[05:17] <jjesse> see wiki.ubuntu.com/'DapperReleaseSchedule
[05:17] <Madpilot> anyway, will be back later - afk for now
[05:18] <frank__> robotgeek: translation, right. Didn't think of those
[05:18] <robotgeek> later
[05:19] <robotgeek> jjesse: have you tried basket in kde. just love that app :)
[05:19] <jjesse> no i haven't
[05:19] <robotgeek> very nice to store away things 
[05:20] <robotgeek> things are looking good with kerry and others. 
[05:21] <jjesse> yeah and i also like the new adept (add/remove programs)
[05:21] <robotgeek> now, only if my cellphone would sync in multisynK , i would be golden
[05:21] <robotgeek> it's nice, i still like to get my hands dirty with apt-get
[05:26] <frank__> robotgeek: http://kubuntu.pastebin.com/639193
[05:28] <frank__> robotgeek: step 1 and 2 are the same. you can get rid of step 1 I think
[05:31] <frank__> what happens if something changes in dapper and a small part of the documentation becomes obsolete before the release?
[05:32] <jjesse> we make an exception
[05:32] <frank__> can I make reviews of some sections? http://doc.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/status/kdg-report.html  how?
[05:33] <jjesse> read the sections that are flagged for review and note any changes that need to be made, either make the changes and create a patch or just send what needs to be changed to the maling list
[05:34] <frank__> jjesse: ok
[05:42] <robotgeek> frank__: patches are very welcome though :)
[05:45] <robotgeek> frank__: http://kubuntu.pastebin.com/639193
[05:48] <frank__> robotgeek: defaults instead of default.  It looks good otherwise
[05:49] <robotgeek> frank__: cool, if the section above it also doable in a gui way?
[05:51] <frank__> robotgeek: you mean the Mount/unmount Windows partitions  (not on bootup)?
[05:52] <robotgeek> frank__: yes. 
[05:52] <robotgeek> i must sound dumb, but that module doesn't load for me (for some strange reason)
[05:53] <frank__> robotgeek: yeah it explains the dumbness factor ;)
[05:59] <frank__> robotgeek: are the mount points only created at installation? what happens if you connect a usb hard drive with a windows partition for example? I don't know if you have to create the fstab line (with the gui) or if something is done automatically?
[06:01] <robotgeek> frank__: usb hdd are mounted automagically, i think they might show up in the System Settings
[06:04] <frank__> the guide explains how to create the mount point and then mount manually without editing fstab. I don't think you can do that with the gui. You always have to edit fstab (create a new entry in the list)
[06:05] <robotgeek> frank__: hmm, okay. 
[06:08] <robotgeek> frank__: so, leave it as it is right?
[06:10] <frank__> robotgeek: well it's not pretty either as it is. 
[06:10] <robotgeek> frank__: a patch would be welcome, and a good introduction to docbook too :)
[06:11] <frank__> robotgeek: I'm reading about docbook now
[06:11] <robotgeek> frank__: cool, i'll head off and do other desktop guide stuff  which i need to finish
[06:11] <frank__> ok
[06:20] <frank__> robotgeek: hmm making patches seems pretty easy. svn takes take of pretty much everything. I never used it (or cvs) for that matter
[06:22] <LaserJock> svn is really sweet
[06:23] <crimsun> except for the whole reserved port, like cvs. That sucks.
[06:30] <LaserJock> bzr has been fun, but I haven't quite gotten used to it
[06:42] <robotgeek> hmm, i see  a new app and more work. Kubuntu also has a Add-remove Application program now
[07:01] <frank__> can I add sections in a patch? If I add one, should the status be review?
[07:02] <robotgeek> frank__: sure.
[07:38] <frank__> what? you can only attach a file to an email in hotmail with IE. Time to finally dump that address! 
[07:38] <frank__> it was a good spam bucket though :(
[07:39] <robotgeek> frank__: lol
[07:39] <frank__> robotgeek: I made a patch and I can't send it. lol
[07:40] <robotgeek> frank__: get gmail :)
[07:41] <frank__> robotgeek: I already have one but I would need to make another that has a more anonymous name.
[07:41] <robotgeek> frank__: okay, i use my real name :)
[07:43] <frank__> Yeah. the less google hits with my real name the better ;)
[07:47] <frank__> robotgeek: can I send you the patch directly? Or I can just send it to the list tomorrow.
[07:47] <robotgeek> frank__: okay, send it to me
[07:49] <robotgeek> frank23: can you email it to me, dcc is a nono :)
[07:49] <robotgeek> venkatvc at ubuntu.com
[07:50] <frank23> ok
[07:52] <highvoltage> robotgeek: which client are you using?
[07:52] <robotgeek> highvoltage: irssi
[07:52] <highvoltage> nice.
[07:53] <highvoltage> don't let old people bully you into using ircII or bitchx
[07:53] <highvoltage> :)
[07:53] <robotgeek> highvoltage: never. 
[07:53] <robotgeek> i am too used to irssi to switch. plus, screen makes it so easy
[07:53] <highvoltage> yep
[07:54] <highvoltage> i would use xchat, if it would also run in screen. pitty you can't have X apps running in screen (or something similar) :/
[07:54] <robotgeek> frank23: recvd, thanks
[07:54] <robotgeek> highvoltage: too bad, that would be great!
[07:54] <frank23> robotgeek: it's my first patch. can you see if it makes sense, that I did it correctly
[07:57] <robotgeek> frank23: looks very nice, next time svn diff in ubuntu-doc directly
[07:59] <frank23> robotgeek: ok. and how do I make separate patches when I edit another file for example?
[07:59] <robotgeek> frank23: svn diff /path/to/file.xml > file.xml.patch
[08:01] <frank23> robotgeek: like   frank@dappertest:~/kdg/ubuntu-doc$ svn diff kubuntu/desktopguide/C/add-applications.xml > add-applications.xml.patch  ?
[08:01] <robotgeek> frank23: yup
[08:01] <frank23> robotgeek: ok great! I'm sure I'll come up with more. but for tonight, good nite
[08:02] <robotgeek> frank23: great. i have a nice bash alias for patches to multiple files, i don't use it anymore as i can commit :)
[08:38] <robotgeek> frank23: commited, thanks
[08:41] <mdke_> morning
[08:42] <robotgeek> morning mdke_ 
[08:46] <mdke_> yeah, that bug about users not being able to access mounted windows partitions is fixed now
[08:47] <mdke_> robotgeek, what changes did you make to the guide?
[08:47] <robotgeek> mdke_: well, kubuntu now has an "add/remove programs" program
[08:48] <mdke_> oh cool. I mean what changes to the partition bit?
[08:48] <Burgundavia> mdke_: did we ever have a consensus on KDE stuff on the Ubuntu wiki?
[08:48] <robotgeek> mdke_: i havent understood that, so i did not touch it
[08:49] <mdke_> robotgeek, good :) The problem should be fixed, as trappist pointed out, so really it shouldn't be necessary for users to mount their own partitions
[08:49] <mdke_> Burgundavia, i don't know. What's the issue?
[08:49] <Burgundavia> mdke_: addition of ktorrent to the bittorrent page
[08:50] <mdke_> if the bittorrent page is generic, sounds fine. The wiki is the Kubuntu wiki too, after all
[08:50] <Burgundavia> mdke_: not really, it talks about where to launch bittorrent from, in the menus
[08:51] <mdke_> i dunno... i would say, either make it a generic page, or have a page for each?
[08:51] <Burgundavia> making it generic is serious regression, from my perspective
[08:51] <Burgundavia> if you have this, do that, else do that
[08:52] <Burgundavia> "umm, can I just run windows?"
[08:52] <Burgundavia> personally, I would yank it, until have a better solution
[08:53] <mdke_> well, bear in mind that the wiki is the kubuntu wiki too. I think removing kubuntu stuff would be bad, in general
[08:53] <robotgeek> Burgundavia: https://w.u.c/BitTorrent , is this  what we are discussing?
[08:53] <Burgundavia> robotgeek: check
[08:54] <Burgundavia> mdke_: then I think we need to discuss a general policy and implement it wiki wide
[08:54] <robotgeek> Burgundavia: why is adding kotorrent an issue again?
[08:54] <Burgundavia> robotgeek: it is a kde specific application
[08:55] <robotgeek> yeah, but why is that a problem? maybe a subpage?
[08:56] <Burgundavia> well, there are two issues here:
[08:56] <Burgundavia> 1 - bittorrent page specific - ktorrent says nothing about why ktorrent is a better solution to any of the others there
[08:56] <Burgundavia> 2 - a policy regarding kubuntu and ubuntu sharing the ubuntu wiki
[08:57] <robotgeek> it is a better solution for kde users
[08:57] <Burgundavia> thus the 1st issue really isn;'t about KDE, but the 2nd issue is
[08:57] <robotgeek> second issue..kinda tough to tackle
[08:58] <Burgundavia> indeed
[08:58] <mdke_> looking at the page, I really don't see the problem
[08:58] <mdke_> ktorrent appears in a "other clients" section
[08:59] <Burgundavia> and what about the 2nd issue?
[08:59] <Burgundavia> is there a kubuntu wiki?
[08:59] <robotgeek> no, it redirectly to ubuntu wiki
[08:59] <robotgeek> redirects 
[08:59] <Burgundavia> hmm
[08:59] <Burgundavia> just like the edubuntu one does
[08:59] <Burgundavia> great...
[08:59] <robotgeek> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/BitTorrent is better looking, imo
[08:59] <mdke_> heh
[09:01] <Burgundavia> wiki.edubuntu.org/BitTorrent is also better looking
[09:02] <Burgundavia> ubuntu has some great colours in its palettte, it is just sometimes we don't use them very well
[09:02] <mdke> thanks for doing that patch, Madpilot 
[09:03] <Madpilot> mdke, no problem
[09:04] <robotgeek> i'll put my thinking cap for that issue after the freeze :)
[09:04] <Burgundavia> ya, wiki issues can be fixed at any time
[09:05] <Burgundavia> getting long is it?
[09:05] <mdke> naaaahhhh
[09:05] <Burgundavia> we don't have anything to do
[09:06] <Madpilot> mostly, it's all the objections/issues that have been raised in the last two weeks that we won't get to in the 3 days until freeze
[09:06] <mdke> today I might do a multimedia review and see if the desktop guide works properly
[09:07] <mdke> I removed everything on my dapper system that wasn't in ubuntu-desktop
[09:07] <robotgeek> how easy is to revert after i commit? :)
[09:07] <mdke> robotgeek, very, if you do it soon afterwards
[09:07] <Burgundavia> mdke: I realized why i can't test the dvd instructions. I have a region 2 dvd player with region 1 dvds :(
[09:07] <Burgundavia> frakking MPAA
[09:08] <mdke> heh
[09:08] <Burgundavia> I am going to call up 
[09:09] <Burgundavia> Toshiba and get them to tell me how to change the region
[09:09] <mdke> Burgundavia, that might be a use case we should deal with in the guide
[09:09] <Madpilot> "Buy a new laptop" :P
[09:09] <robotgeek> regionset
[09:09] <mdke> there's a program called regionset
[09:09] <Burgundavia> ah
[09:10] <mdke> you can change region 4 times, according to RestrictedFormats
[09:10] <Burgundavia> 25, actually
[09:10] <Burgundavia> but after each 5 you need to go to a store and get them to reset the counter
[09:10] <mdke> apparently the software says 4
[09:11] <mdke> no idea if its true or not
[09:11] <Burgundavia> regionset says 4 and 4
[09:11] <Burgundavia> Madpilot: I accidentally took your U2:Boy cd home on Sunday
[09:11] <Burgundavia> just pulled it out of my cd drive
[09:12] <mdke> "accidentally" :)
[09:12] <Madpilot> np, it's ripped to .ogg - just don't loose the CD
[09:12] <Burgundavia> mdke: I already have a burned copy of it
[09:12] <Burgundavia> that I got previously
[09:13] <mdke> :/
[09:13] <robotgeek> lol
[09:13] <mdke> we might need a vote on this yelp patch for the table of contents
[09:13] <Madpilot> scared him off!
[09:15] <Madpilot> The one we've been debating on the ML?
[09:15] <mdke> yes
[09:16] <mdke> whether to have a separate title for the second section or not
[09:18] <Madpilot> Burgundavia, got rid of the cops already? ;)
[09:18] <Burgundavia> ok, gxine plus the information in the desktop guide
[09:18] <Burgundavia> no, dvd froze my system hard
[09:18] <Burgundavia> however, totem-xine still bitches
[09:18] <mdke> odd.
[09:19] <mdke> anyway, xine is a nicer player for dvds
[09:19] <robotgeek> damn, i wanted to show you guys, webserver is down
[09:19] <Burgundavia> hmm, fullscreen doesn't like me
[09:19] <mdke> our webserver?
[09:20] <Burgundavia> and colour is seriously wierd
[09:25] <Burgundavia> hmm, it appears that gxine is not displaying blue
[09:26] <robitaille> Burgundavia:  gxine default colour are weird here as well...I had to play with some of the colour options to  get a normal default...
[09:26] <Burgundavia> robitaille: ok, that makes it not truly suitable for the guide
[09:27] <Burgundavia> unless of course, we can bully a MOTU to look at it for us...
[09:27] <robitaille> but beside that, I like gxine...it's the player that seems to play the most of the media files I have here.
[09:28] <Burgundavia> to bad totem still has issues
[09:36] <Burgundavia> robitaille: is there a bug on gxine already filed?
[09:44] <Burgundavia> robitaille: it seems to have fixed itself, dammit
[09:46] <robitaille> Burgundavia:  it must be a different kind of bug;  it is just that often it seems the colours are a bit off by default in gxine...personaly opinion.
[09:46] <Burgundavia> robitaille: this was seriously off, like no blue
[09:47] <robitaille> must be something else; I think I would have noticed totally missing blue :)
[10:23] <mdke> robotgeek, what's this "major" business? anything cool?
[10:25] <mdke> ah, interesting
[10:26] <mdke> Madpilot, we should take a look at these structure changes robotgeek has done for kubuntu. He's moved getting help to chapter 1, and made "Linux Basics" its own chapter
[10:26] <Madpilot> mdke, was just looking at KDG, actually
[10:28] <mdke> personally, I don't think I like that change, but that's just an immediate reaction
[10:30] <Madpilot> I like "Getting Help" in the first chapter, though
[10:31] <mdke> I'm not so sure. I think Getting Help is what people do when they can't find the answer in the guide
[10:31] <Madpilot> there should be an intro blurb in that chapter about "read this guide first, and then..."
[10:31] <mdke> otherwise, we should have it on the yelp frontpage, as suggested by someone on the list. But I actually think getting help works well at the end of guides
[10:32] <mdke> hmm, yeah maybe an introduction of what is in the guide, including "getting help"
[10:33] <Madpilot> how about an actual "About This Guide" chapter in "About this guide"?
[10:33] <Madpilot> not just the conventions & a blurb about the DocTeam's wonderfulness?
[10:34] <mdke> yes, it makes sense. We'd have to abandon the common preface.xml though
[10:34] <rob> are there any plans to get any of the guides published in any way?
[10:35] <mdke> rob, on the website, in html and pdf, and in the distro, same formats
[10:35] <rob> what about in print?
[10:35] <mdke> no, no plans of printing them ourselves
[10:35] <Madpilot> about half of the docteam is busy writing books, it seems :P
[10:35] <Madpilot> Ubuntu books, that is
[10:36] <rob> Madpilot, yeah.. 
[10:36] <rob> take a look at: http://www.lulu.com/about/whatislulu.php
[10:36] <rob> it needn't cost the docteam/Ubuntu anything
[10:36] <mdke> that looks quite cool
[10:37] <Madpilot> mdke, what about adding an introductory blurb to the very head of the UDG?
[10:37] <Madpilot> that would keep the common preface unbroken
[10:37] <rob> its very cool, and if you choose to wave any royalty they will wave their fees (only cost is the production cost which the buyer pays)
[10:37] <rob> they also allow you to dictate the licensing
[10:38] <mdke> Madpilot, yes, was just thinking of how that might be done
[10:38] <rob> the CC and gfdl are both ok
[10:39] <rob> the cost of a 100 page book can be as low as $6-ish US
[10:39] <Madpilot> mdke, can we put regular text in desktopguide.xml itself?
[10:40] <mdke> Madpilot, we need to find the right tag to put it in.
[10:40] <mdke> i'll dig around
[10:40] <mdke> rob, that is a pretty cool idea
[10:40] <rob> I'd buy one!
[10:41] <mdke> Madpilot, i would think we're likely to have to dedicate a separate chapter to it
[10:41] <mdke> chapter 1. Introduction
[10:42] <Madpilot> mdke, makes sense - easier than either breaking the preface or hacking desktopguide.xml itself
[10:42] <mdke> it does fit best in the preface though...
[10:42] <mdke> mm
[10:44] <mdke> i dunno, I think that if we believe it should go in the preface, we shouldn't worry about the technical side. Not sure
[10:47] <mdke> rob, I'm pretty tempted by this lulu thing. We could use the pdfs we already have
[10:47] <rob> yep
[10:47] <mdke> someone would need to think about a cover
[10:47] <rob> we have an art team :)
[10:47] <mdke> yeah
[10:47] <mdke> we might want canonical to deal with lulu rather than us, dunno
[10:47] <rob> I'm sure they would be wrapped to be allowed to design the cover of the book
[10:48] <rob> I think we should ask, maybe at a CC meeting?
[10:48] <rob> or just contact canonical direct?
[10:48] <Burgundavia> rob: you know there is already a canonical-blessed book in production?
[10:48] <Burgundavia> it is going to be released under our licenses once published
[10:49] <rob> Burgundavia, sure, doesn't mean there can't also be this
[10:49] <Burgundavia> tbh, the desktop guide is not worth purchasing as a standalone book
[10:50] <rob> thats a matter of opinion
[10:50] <rob> it would be quite cheap and all that most users need
[10:50] <Burgundavia> it is not useful to read without the machine in front of you
[10:51] <rob> I can't think of anything better then to have a written guide with you when using a computer
[10:51] <mdke> heh, Burgundavia is getting protective :)
[10:51] <rob> esp for new/beginner users
[10:51] <Burgundavia> mdke: no, I am being honest
[10:51] <rob> Burgundavia, not scared of a little competition are you?
[10:52] <Burgundavia> even without hte official book coming out and my part in it, I couldn't honestly recommend teh desktop guide
[10:52] <mdke> Burgundavia, ok, but it's an opinion. Someone might easily say the same about the "official book"
[10:52] <Burgundavia> not to smash the work that has gone into it, but it is not a book
[10:52] <Burgundavia> the desktop does not talk about how to use anything
[10:52] <Burgundavia> merely that it exists
[10:52] <rob> so you are saying the docteam's work is substandard to your own?
[10:52] <Burgundavia> I am being paid to work on teh book
[10:52] <mdke> let's discuss this lulu idea on the list, and then approach jane or something if we agree its a good idea
[10:53] <Burgundavia> were I being paid to work on official docs, they would be just as good
[10:53] <Burgundavia>  /bad, your pick
[10:53] <mdke> heh, no offense, but being paid doesn't make it good
[10:53] <mdke> mako's chapters are good because he is an awesome writer, not because he's being paid
[10:53] <Burgundavia> no, but it does guarentee at least a few hours that have been used to work on it
[10:54] <Burgundavia> I think lulu would be a great choice for dapper+1
[10:54] <Burgundavia> we can merge the desktop guide and the official book and really  have something we would be proud to put our name on
[10:55] <Burgundavia> anyway, it is 2am here and I have to be at work at 8am
[10:55] <rob> night
[10:55] <Burgundavia> night all
[10:55] <mdke> anyway, the good thing about lulu is that if people don't like the guide, they don't have to buy it, and no cost is expended in production 
[10:55] <mdke> night Burgundavia 
[10:55] <rob> mdke, thats exactly right
[10:56] <mdke> personally, although I'm biased, I'm not convinced the desktop guide has less value than the official book
[10:56] <mdke> its significantly more accessible for people who aren't native english speakers
[10:56] <mdke> and we will have translations
[10:57] <rob> its to the point and has had a fair bit of time spent on it now
[10:57] <rob> translations!
[10:57] <mdke> the structure is good too
[10:57] <rob> it fits the style of a 'book' better then the Breezy one did
[10:58] <mdke> Madpilot, i think we should have it in the preface, on reflection. you?
[10:59] <Madpilot> mdke, yeah, if putting it there doesn't cause massive coding/tech headaches 
[10:59] <mdke> no, we just take preface.xml and make our own
[11:01] <Madpilot> that works :P
[11:20] <Madpilot> sleep - later, all
[04:04] <robotgeek> reads scrollback
[04:29] <robotgeek> hey jjesse 
[04:33] <jjesse> hiya robotgeek
[04:33] <robotgeek> jjesse: did you see the changes i made?
[04:34] <jjesse> robotgeek: haven't yet.. unfortnatly today i'm working in windows mode right mode :)
[04:34] <robotgeek> jjesse: http://www.robotgeek.org/kubuntu/
[04:35] <jjesse> i like them
[04:36] <robotgeek> jjesse: cool, i'll do some ore reorg and get rid of the misc tips section
[04:43] <mdke> robotgeek, see our reasons for not making the same changes in the scrollback
[04:44] <mdke> but I've added an introduction section
[04:48] <jjesse> if doc freeze is on friday does that mean i have until friday at 11:59pm UTC to comitt changes? or until that day is over in my time zone :)
[04:50] <robotgeek> mdke: let me look deeper, i just woke up :)
[04:51] <robotgeek> we need an irc client that tracks conversations
[04:53] <mdke> jjesse, it's thursday. and freezes mean that it gets frozen at 00:01 UTC on that day. But we are unlikely to be so strict
[04:56] <robotgeek> mdke: i saw the change to preface.xml, nicely done. 
[04:56] <robotgeek> however, i a m also going to add a small blurb about help in KDE, which will make that move to the front seem better
[04:57] <mdke> ok, i still think that getting more help is best at the end of a document, but it's hardly a big deal
[04:57] <robotgeek> it's not like people are going to readit :)
[04:58] <robotgeek> which reminds me, i need to bug tonio
[04:59] <frank23> should the svn version always build? add-applications.xml doesn't build right now
[04:59] <robotgeek> frank23: what issue are you facing?
[05:00] <mdke> yes, it should
[05:01] <mdke> if we're doing our job properly
[05:01] <mdke> :)
[05:01] <frank23> I can fix it myself but there is an extra        <<<<<<< .mine   line that i get errors about
[05:01] <frank23> add-applications.xml:141: parser error
[05:02] <robotgeek> frank23: okay, basically that's becuase i made a few changes to add-applications.xml and committed them. 
[05:02] <robotgeek> that's the .mine file.
[05:03] <robotgeek> frank23: now you have a conflict, which you have to fix manually
[05:05] <frank23> robotgeek: well removing a few line fixes it. If I delete my add-applications.xml.mine file, it would stop complaining?
[05:05] <robotgeek> frank23: i think you will lose your changes
[05:06] <frank23> robotgeek: did you commit my changes?
[05:06] <robotgeek> frank23: yes, i did. (the one you emailed me last night)
[05:07] <frank23> robotgeek: when I do a svn up,   is the add-applications.xml I get the one in svn or some combination of that one and my .mine
[05:09] <robotgeek> frank23: if you did not make any changes after yesterday, it is safe to delete the .mine file. and yes, after svn up, the file in your directory is in sync with the respository
[05:11] <frank23> robotgeek: ok. There are things about svn I don't understand. my mistake
[05:12] <robotgeek> frank23: no problem, take your time. everyone goes thru it
[05:50] <mdke> omg, i love the yelp developers
[05:50] <mdke> http://www.donscorgie.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/Yelp-with-desc.png
[05:50] <mdke> mpt_, ^
[06:54] <Burgwork> ok, our logout dialog went from crack to pure crack
[06:55] <robotgeek> lol
[06:55] <mdke> agreed
[06:55] <robotgeek> screenie?
[06:56] <mdke> http://www.manucornet.net/ubuntu/dev/hibernate.png
[06:56] <robotgeek> too many buttons
[06:56] <Burgwork> yep
[06:57] <mdke> the labels are the new thing
[07:19] <ompaul> I actually think that is cute - and my sister (a strict non geek) 
[07:19] <ompaul> was ohh that looks easy
[07:21] <ompaul> one of these years she will ask me to convert her machine :-) in the mean time I don't support their windows I bring ubuntu to their house on a little lappy :)
[08:31] <robotgeek> jjesse: howz work on handhelds coming up?
[08:31] <jjesse> robotgeek: slow but working on it
[08:31] <robotgeek> jjesse: cool
[08:31] <jjesse> btw will be forwarding an email to you on someone intersted in joining
[08:32] <robotgeek> great!
[08:38] <Burgwork> jjesse, handhelds?
[08:38] <robotgeek> Burgwork: palms etc
[08:39] <Burgwork> robotgeek, very cool. Ubuntu on them?
[08:39] <robotgeek> Burgwork: using palms with kubuntu, i guess
[08:40] <jjesse> connecting your palm to kubuntu
[08:40] <jjesse> not running kubuntu on palms :)
[08:40] <jjesse> though i wise
[08:40] <jjesse> wish
[09:01] <jjesse> robotgeek: what's your email again reall quick venkat@?
[09:01] <robotgeek> venkatvc at  ubuntu.com
[09:19] <mdke> trappist, jjesse, commit access working?
[09:22] <jjesse> haven't had a chance to test
[09:24] <LaserJock> jjesse: better get going ;-)
[09:24] <mdke> jjesse, well, did you receive the password?
[09:24] <trappist> mdke: got mine.  gotta test it.
[09:24] <jjesse> mdke: yes i did, i received the email, need to remember my password for the key and have been swamped at work
[09:25] <mdke> cool
[09:25] <trappist> works
[09:26] <trappist> wish I could use something like an ssh key, though.  that password is a buttkicker.
[09:26] <mdke> trappist, svn saves it, you only enter it once
[09:26] <trappist> oh awesome.
[09:27] <trappist> I've always used svn+ssh
[09:28] <trappist> got that taken care of from my work box and my home box then, by adding and removing a file
[10:42] <LaserJock> how easy is it to take wiki pages from one wiki and put them in another?
[11:46] <mpt__> mdke, sweet
[11:47] <mpt__> hehe, "Let the computer hibernate"? Do I really have to?