[12:28] <AlinuxOS> hello boys :) why 6.04 to 6.06 ? :)
[12:28] <AlinuxOS> I'm surprised really :)
[12:38] <ogra> because it would be odd to release in june but call it 6.04
[01:01] <Riddell> mdz: the kdeprint maintainer says he would be interested in a cups 1.2 bounty and it would help him allocate time to kdeprint. how do I proceed?
[01:05] <doko> Riddell: pitti did want to look at an cups update, but he's quite busy
[01:06] <Riddell> doko: it won't help
[01:06] <Riddell> it's KDE at fault
[01:07] <doko> Riddell: as with "system:" URL's ;-)
[01:13] <mdz> Riddell: do you have a fairly good idea of the scope of the work?  small, medium, large?
[01:16] <mdz> ogra: ah, I thought speedcrunch was an edubuntu app
[01:17] <ogra> mdz, nope, its a kubuntu-desktop dep ...
[01:18] <ogra> mdz, but dont worry, i'll sort it out with Riddell :)
[01:18] <mdz> ogra: thakns
[01:21] <Riddell> mdz: it's fixing the use of private apis to public ones
[01:21] <Riddell> mdz: not a huge job, there shouldn't be too many
[01:24] <mdz> Riddell: ask him to send me an email with a statement of work (a description of what needs to be done, that we can all agree on), a date he can commit to delivery, and a price
[01:24] <mdz> I'll take it from there
[01:24] <Riddell> mdz: ok, thanks
[01:29] <Riddell> Kamion: kde espresso good for merging if you want, it's starting to become usable
[01:44] <doko> mdz: how should we go on with the change of the default font? the discussion was somewhat short; just jdub did agree. didn't hear anything from Diziet (firefox default)
[01:45] <mdz> doko: it makes me very nervous
[01:46] <mdz> doko: do you have some ideas about how we can get sufficient testing and input from users of many different languages and content types?
[01:46] <engla> Ubuntu dapper dropped out of X in a split second for me, leaving me witha black screen. Which logs should I preserve before starting gdm again? I've found .xsession-errors, but what more is good for a bug report?
[01:47] <sladen> mdz: provide pizza and bribe all the overseas students from the local university to show up
[01:47] <elmo> argh, christ.  is it a known bug that you can't paste non-ascii in gnome-terminal?
[01:48] <sladen>  pasteage
[01:48] <sivang> elmo: do you get hollow squares?
[01:49] <elmo> sivang: it just won't let me paste
[01:49] <Seveas> works fine for me
[01:49] <sivang> elmo: ah
[01:49] <sivang> 
[01:49] <sladen> elmo: from PRIMARY or CLIPBOARD  (right-click, paste, or middle click?)
[01:50] <sivang> I can paste but not see it right after having pasted it.
[01:50] <elmo> sladen: shift-insert
[01:50] <elmo> (which is middle-click, I think?)
[01:51] <doko> mdz: if we only move the Nimbus font before the DejaVu font, then not much should happen (tm). The problem which I see is to get testers and developers interested in testing this. so maybe announce it again on devel-announce, and provide some test packages on p.d.o (have to convince seb128 and Riddell to help with this)
[01:51] <elmo> right-click copy + right-click, paste, just does nothing too
[01:51] <mdz> doko: which packages need to be touched?
[01:51] <sladen> yes.  Shift-insert, middle click and right-click all work for me with speffal characters
[01:51] <elmo> so I wonder what the heck is spethial about my setup, *sigh*
[01:51] <elmo> sladen: thanks anyway
[01:52] <doko> fontconfig, gnome-control-center(?), some KDE package (?), don't know for xubuntu.
[01:54] <doko> mdz: there's one alternative, which might be less invasive: revert back Diziet 's fontconfig change, so that at least the replacement for the Times/Helvetica fonts is metrical correct. But then people will complain that their web pages look ugly ...
[01:54] <mdz> doko: the fonts look very similar, though different metrics, so in theory it should look OK where glyphs are mixed, right?
[01:55] <wasabi_> Is there any standard for encoding the type of a document into a plain text file as a comment so it can be sniffed?
[01:56] <wasabi_> Some common #syntax or something.
[01:56] <wasabi_> It's unimportant, I just want to know if there's something universally accepted currently.
[01:56] <doko> mdz: glyph mixing is never ok, but the Nimbus font is somewhat complete in the glyph "groups", so substitutions should look ok (we won't have the alphabet in nimbus, except for the vowels in DejaVu)
[01:58] <doko> mdz: last resort is to blacklist the Nimbus font for some languages in /etc/fonts/fonts.conf
[01:59] <neuralis> wasabi_: what do you mean by type? text encoding, or actual type (perl script vs. TeX file vs. ...)?
[01:59] <wasabi_> mime type.
[01:59] <wasabi_> I'd just assume put #application/foo as the first line in the file.
[01:59] <wasabi_> But I was wondering if there some syntax other programs are using I can steal.
[01:59] <neuralis> not to my knowledge, no.
[02:01] <wasabi_> Well, what's done for encoding?
[02:01] <wasabi_> I've seen something done by VI before, trying to find an example.
[02:02] <neuralis> vim has its own syntax for denoting encoding, if i remember correctly; unicode has the (optional) BOM, and general programs use the canonical solution of libmagic if they really need to figure out the type of a file.
[02:04] <mdz> doko: let's give it a try and see what happens; it's simple to revert, right?
[02:04] <mdz> doko: or does it migrate into user preferences?
[02:05] <doko> mdz: fontconfig defaults not, I'll ask seb128/Riddell for gnome/KDE, so that we know at least that
[02:07] <mdz> doko: ok, if it's entirely global config and easy to revert, let's try it
[02:07] <robertj> the http://people.debian.org/~debacle/refcard/ webpage is a good example of exactly what is wrong with free software today :(
[02:08] <doko> mdz: ok, will prepare it tomorrow and announce it
[02:10] <ogra> elmo, did you try shift-ctrl-V
[02:10] <engla> is it possible to attach files to bugs in launchpad?
[02:10] <sladen> elmo: oh, remember that with copy and paste it is the application that you are copying /from/ that provides the string;  so it could it that which is broken rather than the recieving end
[02:10] <engla> engla: yes it it, you are confused, engla 
[02:11] <elmo> sladen: ah, maybe it's screen
[02:11] <elmo> 'cos it's gnome-terminal in both cases
[02:12] <mjg59> robertj: Mm?
[02:12] <elmo> ogra: that's just paste from the menu isn't it?
[02:12] <syntaxis> robertj: how so?
[02:12] <ogra> yep
[02:12] <ogra> elmo, but ususally works
[02:14] <robertj> mjg59: it's an very plain page with an abstract that looks like the introduction of a conference paper. It follows with information about how to access the information using svn. Then it follows with the commands for checking it out of cvs. Then it lists a whole bunch of information users don't care about including the Translator & Print Title. 
[02:15] <robertj> Then when you finally click the link you get a bunch of commands with too little explanation to actually be of use to anyone who would need the cheat sheet
[02:15] <ogra> doko, do you read ubuntu-art ? "Has something changed with the fonts? Ubuntu looks very crisp and sharp, far more so than other LiveCD's somehow."
[02:16] <mjg59> robertj: I think you've missed the point of that page
[02:16] <ogra> thats about flight6
[02:16] <mjg59> (Though your criticism of the card itself may be valid)
[02:17] <doko> ogra: no, don't read it. maybe it's compared to breezy?
[02:17] <robertj> mjg59: it it were me it would be Title - List of Languages - More information
[02:17] <mjg59> robertj: It's not supposed to be a source for users
[02:17] <ogra> doko, might be, but it indicates that we should probably keep the current setup as a fallback
[02:18] <robertj> mjg59: it's on digg
[02:18] <mjg59> robertj: Well it shouldn't be
[02:18] <robertj> mjg59: I think it's a reality people have to prepare for these days
[02:18] <sivang> robertj: which page is that?
[02:19] <robertj> basically anything that does not have a whole-pager watermark reading "TEST RELEASE" is going to be presented as done
[02:19] <robertj> sivang: http://people.debian.org/~debacle/refcard/
[02:19] <mjg59> robertj: I write pages based on the audience I'm targetting, not the audience that may get pointed at my page by digg
[02:19] <robertj> mjg59: I understand, but a cheat sheet is end-user documentation
[02:20] <robertj> so it ought to have a similarly-targeted web page
[02:20] <mjg59> robertj: It's a website that exists to provide information on the availability and translation infrastructure of the doc
[02:20] <mjg59> Not a website that's supposed to provide it to a naive end-user
[02:22] <robertj> mjg59: it's not marked as being in a developer section, isn't titled "Developer Information for X" etc
[02:22] <mjg59> robertj: And?
[02:23] <robertj> mjg59: so it's a good example of having an end-user product with no end-use web page.
[02:24] <mjg59> robertj: And that's exactly what's wrong with free software these days?
[02:24] <Keybuk> heh
[02:24] <Keybuk> he did manage to send that e-mail to everybody except the intended recipients
[02:24] <ogra> heh, yes
[02:25] <mjg59> robertj: Lack of clearly targetted webpages is hardly limited to free software. It's common pretty much anywhere where there's no direct profit motive
[02:25] <robertj> mjg59: Yes, is it a good thing? Do developers really want to see the entire first page dominated by copyright discussion over the GPL?
[02:26] <mjg59> robertj: You're restating your complaint
[02:26] <robertj> Yes, and I'm asking, is this helpful to developers?
[02:26] <mjg59> Yes
[02:28] <robertj> So you like having the whole pre-amble right smack at the top?
[02:28] <robertj> You don't need it up there, you don't have to accept it
[02:29] <robertj> but that's quite enough about that
[02:30] <mjg59> robertj: If I'm going to be distributing or translating something, I want to know what terms it's under
[02:31] <robertj> mjg59: yes, that would be good, stick it at the bottom along with checkout directions
[02:31] <mjg59> robertj: It's fairly clear that that page is aimed at distributors and translaters
[02:32] <robertj> mjg59: and it shouldn't be, but we've already covered that ground
[02:33] <mjg59> robertj: Given who the page is aimed at, the page is appropriate. Which leaves you with "This project has no end-user friendly website"
[02:33] <mjg59> Which is again a reasonable objection, but it's certainly not an example of what's wrong with free software today
[02:33] <mjg59> There are many worse things
[02:33] <robertj> mjg59: that's right. And it doesn't really need a web site, it needs a web page, which would hopefully be linked off the dev page because it's also part of the development
[02:34] <robertj> mjg59: I think it's emblematic, I surely don't think it's going to bring world peace
[02:42] <robertj> I like the cheat sheet entry for building your own kernel image
[02:51] <Kamion> mdz: why do you think #32529 belongs with partman? it looks like a parted bug to me
[02:53] <mdz> Kamion: I thought partman decided what was permissible
[02:53] <mdz> if not, apologies
[02:55] <Kamion> looks to me that parted is not telling partman about the existence of hda3 because it's confused, partman then tries to tell parted to resize hda1, and all parted manages to do is write out a new partition table with its confused view of the world
[02:56] <Kamion> anything that low-level about partition tables is usually parted
[02:56] <Kamion> I'll reassign back and ask for the partman log, which may help
[02:57] <Kamion> thanks, though, at least the reassign prompted me to look at the bug :-)
[02:58] <Kamion> Riddell: noted, thanks
[02:59] <mdz> I wish I could unsubscribe you/ubuntu-installer from some of these misplaced installer bugs
[03:00] <Kamion> I can unsubscribe myself if need be (and sometimes do), but I can't figure out how to unsubscribe ubuntu-installer
[03:01] <Kamion> it's probably right that you can't unsubscribe other people, but you should be able to unsubscribe a team you're in
[03:02] <Kamion> https://launchpad.net/products/malone/+bug/30532
[03:02] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 30532 in malone "Unable to unsubscribe a team from a bug" [Normal,Confirmed]  
[03:02] <bddebian> heh
[03:06] <Kamion> Riddell: why does your branch remove necessary code from espresso/components/install.py?
[03:06] <Kamion> Riddell: and as usual you didn't write a changelog entry; please do
[03:07] <Kamion> for instance the apt-install change closes a bug and needs a changelog entry
[03:08] <Kamion> I'll merge it after you've corrected that; thanks
[03:16] <Kamion> (apologies if the above is snarky, insomnia is not good for tact)
[03:17] <elmo> you said thanks, not kthxbye, so I think you're not quite up to snarky yet
[03:18] <Kamion> true
[03:19] <Seveas> getting close though ;)
[03:20] <nictuku> Seveas, are you there?
[03:20] <Seveas> nictuku, yes
[03:21] <dAndy> Kamion: I am having another weird kickstart issue, when I specify a drivemap, it still pops up the drive map dialog, but when I tell it to erase all of hda, it still uses the drive map from the ks
[03:21] <nictuku> can I pm you about members host cloak?
[03:21] <dAndy> Kamion: is there something I am missing, about telling it to use hda or something?
[03:21] <mjg59> Keybuk: Suspend/resume issues are almost certainly the kernel, not acpi-support
[03:21] <Seveas> nictuku, please mail me (dennis@ubuntu.com) - it's 3:20 here and I should be sleeping 
[03:22] <nictuku> Seveas, ah ok
[03:22] <Kamion> dAndy: preseeding partman-auto/disk is the usual way to pick a disk
[03:22] <nictuku> Seveas, thanks
[03:22] <Kamion> dAndy: apart from that (and obviously you shouldn't have to do that by hand with kickstart) I can't immediately think what's wrong, but it's late here
[03:22] <Keybuk> mjg59: aye, I take a "assign it to the first package I can think of that mjg59 knows about, so he can decide where to assign it further" approach :p
[03:23] <dAndy> Kamion: it seems like if you specify a partition map, it should pick the default drive, should I file a bug? or is this normal behavior and preseeding is the way to go
[03:23] <Kamion> clearpart preseeds partman-auto/disk ...
[03:23] <Kamion> dAndy: go ahead and file a bug, I think I need (a) more details/context and (b) more sleep
[03:24] <dAndy> ok, against d-i?
[03:24] <Kamion> kickseed probably
[03:24] <Kamion> include sample kickstart file minus passwords
[03:24] <dAndy> will do
[03:25] <Kamion> ta
[03:25] <mjg59> Keybuk: What would be great would be a suspend/resume meta-target
[03:25] <mjg59> That way I can see it and reassign it as appropriate
[03:25] <mjg59> But sticking it on acpi-support (which is just a bunch of shell scripts) isn't ideal
[03:35] <bddebian> Anyone know imake/xmkmf well?
[03:37] <OgMaciel> jdub: ping
[03:37] <sivang> night all, for real now. (boy am I past my bed time!)
[03:38] <bddebian> Gnight sivang
[03:38] <sivang> night bddebian , going to dream backup dreams :)
[03:38] <bddebian> :-)
[03:49] <jdub> OgMaciel: pong
[03:50] <OgMaciel> jdub: can I pvt?
[03:53] <jdub> OgMaciel: yeah
[03:53] <bddebian> Damn did infinity die or what? 
[03:59] <dAndy> Kamion: filed the bug, I think the issue may be that I am rebuilding mini.iso from the debian-installer source, the only thing I changed was added the nfs kernel module udeb, otherwise it uses the defaults
[04:01] <infinity> bddebian: Did I?
[04:01] <bddebian> infinity!!
[04:02] <bddebian> infinity: Would mind helping me with this imake/xmkmf thing in ivtools?
[04:02] <infinity> imake and I don't get along AT ALL...
[04:02] <infinity> What's the problem?
[04:03] <bddebian> The paths were wrong for X11/conf and libs
[04:03] <bddebian> But now it pukes on build.  It appears that MakeCPU() isn't returning anything?
[04:03] <wasabi__> So what's a nice good free place for a blog?
[04:04] <infinity> bddebian: Erm, yeah.  I have no clue. :)
[04:04] <wasabi__> What was that one set up for gnome devlopers at some point?
[04:04] <Burgundavia> wasabi__: advogato or livejournal
[04:04] <wasabi__> advo...
[04:04] <bddebian> Damn :-(
[04:04] <wasabi__> advogato. Yeah.
[04:38] <bddebian> How can XCONFIGDIR be /usr/lib/X11/config, that's not even a valid dir??
[04:58] <jdub> does kernel.org have a nice view of git trees? (specifically ben's ubuntu git tree?)
[04:59] <ajmitch> how nice a view do you want?
[04:59] <ajmitch> like http://www.kernel.org/git/?p=linux/kernel/git/bcollins/ubuntu-2.6.git;a=summary ?
[05:01] <jdub> exactly like that
[05:01] <jdub> thanks
[05:02] <jdub> BenC: ping
[05:03] <jdub> ber
[05:03] <jdub> BenC: ping (what are the chances of getting that sata_promise update before the next package upload?)
[05:04] <BenC> jdub: it will be in the next one
[05:04] <jdub> BenC: ah, you're about - thanks! :)
[05:05] <jdub> BenC: next as in, the one after?
[05:05] <BenC> I just uploaded 20.30, so it will be in 20.31
[05:05] <jdub> ok
[05:05] <jdub> thanks
[05:11] <TheMuso> c
[05:46] <joelbryan> Hi, anyone awake?
[05:46] <neuralis> joelbryan: what's up?
[05:46] <joelbryan> anyone care to look at Bug #38115
[05:47] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 38115 in ubuntu-meta ubuntu-desktop "A software for gaim that handles irc:// links in browser" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/38115
[05:47] <joelbryan> It's a small software I write to handle irc:// links in browser, and use Gaim.
[05:50] <TheMuso> c
[05:50] <TheMuso> gah!
[05:50] <joelbryan> what?
[05:50] <neuralis> joelbryan: please be patient. you only filed this bug today; the relevant developers have already received mail about it, and will get to it promptly.
[05:51] <joelbryan> sorry man.
[05:52] <LaserJock> joelbryan: you don't have to be sorry. I'd personally love to see something like what you have done in Dapper
[05:52] <LaserJock> joelbryan: especially since xchat and xchat-gnome are not going to be installed by default
[05:52] <joelbryan> thanks :-)
[05:54] <neuralis> joelbryan: not a problem, and thanks for working on this! if you don't get feedback in 5-6 days, come poke us again.
[05:56] <joelbryan> more things to come :-)
[05:56] <joelbryan> does the home user backup already has a release software?
[05:58] <Burgundavia> joelbryan: no, bug sivang
[05:58] <bddebian> infinity: still here?
[06:00] <infinity> bddebian: Ish.
[06:03] <bddebian> infinity: Sorry to bug you and I don't know if you'll know but wouldn't you expect XCONFIGDIR to be /etc/X11/config rather than /usr/lib/X11/config (which doesn't even exist btw)?
[06:05] <joelbryan> it's easy to convert it to be used in other protocol, like ssh://, jabber://, etc. if those are necessary.
[06:10] <joelbryan> does the unified control center is part of the specification? sorry for asking alot.
[06:12] <infinity> bddebian: Sometihng in /etc would certainly seem more reasonable.
[06:14] <bddebian> Man, I thought you had ALL the answers :-)
[06:16] <joelbryan> no, i'm still an amateur.
[06:17] <bddebian> joelbryan: I meant infinity :-)
[06:18] <infinity> bddebian: Sorry, I'm a bit preoccupied with fighting with LRM right now, and imake and I have always had a hate-hate relationship.
[06:18] <infinity> bddebian: You might try poking Fabio about it when he wakes up
[06:19] <bddebian> infinity: No worries, I'm just busting your chops.  Sorry.
[06:22] <joelbryan> bddebian: oh
[06:24] <bddebian> joelbryan: Bah, no worries :-)
[06:50] <wasabi__> greatings, spaceman
[06:50] <robotgeek> hi sabdfl 
[06:55] <sabdfl> moin moin all
[06:56] <sabdfl> got to dash off catch you later
[06:57] <triceratops> On 27mar someone on ubuntu-users list mentioned a problem with resolvconf during an upgrade. It seems that he didn't fill a bugreport against resolvconf. So, is $devel aware of this irritating behaviour and is someone working on this?
[07:07] <fabbione> morning
[07:08] <Lathiat> http://launchpad.net/bugs/38009
[07:08] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 38009 in resolvconf "Breezy -> Dapper transition needs proper /etc/resolvconf/run handling" [Normal,Needs info]  
[07:09] <Lathiat> M#1
[07:19] <wasabi__> Don't suppose anybody is aware of a good way to instruct synaptic to install some packages?
[07:20] <wasabi__> with gksu in the middle. =/
[08:01] <triceratops_> Lathiat: Interesting, looking for bugs at launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/ asking for bugs in resolvconf this bug don't show up. (rom time to time this launchpad drives me nuts... ;-)
[08:03] <triceratops_> Lathiat: So I shouldn't run into this problem due to the last report on this bug. But I did... *irritated*
[08:25] <pitti> Hey everyone
[08:25] <ajmitch> hi pitti 
[08:29] <pitti> hi ajmitch 
[08:29] <pitti> ajmitch: how's it going?
[08:30] <ajmitch> good, how are you?
[08:30] <mdke> infinity, any news on flashplayer-mozilla
[08:30] <mdke> ?
[08:33] <pitti> ajmitch: pretty well :)
[08:33] <pitti> ajmitch: could you make any sense of that selinux kernel flaw?
[08:34] <ajmitch> yeah, did you get my email?
[08:34] <ajmitch> hey dholbach 
[08:34] <dholbach> hey ajmitch
[08:35] <pitti> ajmitch: no, I didn't !?
[08:35] <ajmitch> pitti: hm, I sent it yesterday (I think)
[08:38] <pitti> ajmitch: nope, I checked my procmail log, nothing from you :(
[08:40] <seth> jdong, ping?
[08:40] <whiprush> jdub: ping
[08:43] <mdke> whiprush, has someone poked you already about your blog?
[08:43] <whiprush> yeah.
[08:43] <mdke> cool
[08:44] <whiprush> It's odd, it works fine in readers and whatnot, no idea what the problem is.
[08:46] <mdke> whiprush, it doesn't work in blam reading from planet
[08:46] <whiprush> yeah, it works for me when using my direct feed. :-/
[08:46] <whiprush> If I can't resolve it soon I'll just move to wordpress or something.
[08:52] <mdke> whiprush, perhaps it's planet's fault. lemme see
[08:52] <whiprush> If you could rule it out one way or another, that would be great.
[08:53] <mdke> yes, works fine in blam with your rdf feed
[08:54] <mdke> although each post is just 2 lines long and then leaves me hanging
[08:57] <mdke> whiprush, ^^
[08:58] <whiprush> I wonder if typepad just broke (my hosted blog)
[08:59] <whiprush> mdke: do you admin planet?
[08:59] <mdke> whiprush, no, only jdub does, I think
[08:59] <whiprush> ah.
[09:00] <dholbach> noooooooooo, don't remove whiprush!
[09:23] <mdke> dholbach, on bug 38090, is the colour clashing with other non-orange icons filed somewhere else too? if not, I'll reopen the bug and change the description so its focused on that
[09:23] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 38090 in ubuntu-artwork "Icons which are too orange and that look nothing like what they are supposed to portray" [Normal,Rejected]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/38090
[09:24] <dholbach> I'm quite sure it is - but that's something which should be discussed on the mailing list, preferrably on ubuntu-art
[09:25] <mdke> well, a bug is a bug, it's difficult to know when a bug is a mailing list bug or a bug tracker bug
[09:25] <ajmitch> almost up to 40K bugs
[09:25] <dholbach> the problem is that everybody has an opinion and it's more about a "discussion of changing a default" then a bug
[09:25] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 38136 in evolution "British English Spellings are Used" [Minor,Needs info]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/38136
[09:25] <ajmitch> nothing wrong with using proper language in evolution :)
[09:26] <mdke> dholbach, i think the fact that orange icons clash with non-orange ones in the same menu is not really a matter of opinion
[09:26] <mdke> ajmitch, haha
[09:26] <dholbach> let me re-read it
[09:27] <dholbach> bug 34400 - places menu
[09:27] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 34400 in ubuntu-artwork "Inconsistency: Icons in places menu" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/34400
[09:28] <mdke> dholbach, thanks. I dunno why this things don't show up when I search :/
[09:29] <dholbach> if you want to have the bug there... go for it, I won't stop you
[09:29] <dholbach> it's just that it has to be very precise and focussed
[09:29] <dholbach> else it will just stay there :-/
[09:29] <mdke> actually, I'm not sure that's the same bug. My problem is that the orange clashes with the silver in the (e.g.) mounted partitions icons
[09:30] <dholbach> you have to mention that specifically
[09:30] <mdke> i will get a screenshot
[09:30] <mdke> sorry for the noise
[09:30] <dholbach> sorry for not thinking enough when reading your bug report
[09:31] <dholbach> but if it's not specific it reads just as "it's too orange for my taste" (when having had no coffee yet :-p)
[09:31] <mdke> yes, it was my fault, not yours. (Although they are too orange :)
[09:32] <sivang> morning!
[09:33] <dholbach> pffft.... jdub in his orange clothes was too orange, but not the icons
[09:33] <ajmitch> haha
[09:34] <ajmitch> he just decided to wear the national costume, nothing wrong with that :)
[09:35] <sivang> orange talking again?:)
[09:35] <mdke> dude, my girlfriend, who i always use for usability assessment, actually physically shuddered when she saw the icons appear on the desktop
[09:35] <mdke> let alone letting out a cry of horror
[09:35] <mdke> if I hadn't switched to gnome icons, I would have been calling the psychotherapist
[09:37] <sivang> mdke: ehehe, Seems you have gf with very strong usability opinions :)
[09:37] <mdke> dholbach, :)
[09:41] <jsgotangco> greetings
[09:42] <ajmitch> hi jsgotangco 
[09:42] <Burgundavia> hmm, lxer has posted an interesting piece about why there is going to be no Fedora Foudnation
[09:42] <jsgotangco> xubuntu flight 6 a-ok here :)
[09:43] <hunger> jsgotangco: Does pvmove work for you?
[09:43] <hunger> jsgotangco: Coredumps on kubuntu for me.
[09:48] <pitti> Kamion: can you please NEW the aspell-cs binary? Thanks in advance
[09:58] <enyc> meep
[10:01] <dholbach> heya seb128!
[10:01] <seb128> hi dholbach :)
[10:04] <jsgotangco> hey
[10:08] <pitti> hey Mr. Sebarino
[10:11] <pitti> sivang: how's HUB looking?
[10:24] <seb128> bah, Keybuk closed all sort of non-fixed bugs because they were "Fix Commited"
[10:26] <ajmitch> mvo: it really doesn't :)
[10:26] <sivang> pitti: very good, checkout my last commit from last night at the launchpad page for the project.
[10:26] <ajmitch> iirc open bugs doesn't count 'fix committed'
[10:27] <mvo> ajmitch: ha! you spoiled my evil plan :P
[10:27] <ajmitch> mvo: sorry 
[10:27] <ajmitch> you'll have to do more evil plotting
[10:30] <pitti> mvo: it is so precise that you can shoot bugs out of the LP database? wow :)
[10:30] <ajmitch> pitti: he's probably targetting the data centre ;)
[10:31] <pitti> well, ok, with a sufficiently big laser you can kill all bug reports (and bugs) at once :)
[10:31] <pitti> then we'll just have one: bug #1: please build an Ubuntu OS
[10:31] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 1 in Baltix "Microsoft has a majority market share" [Major,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/1
[10:31] <pitti> yeah, well, that too
[10:32] <pitti> (why is it for Baltix, anyway?)
[10:32] <ajmitch> it probably picks the first bug task
[10:32] <dholbach> mdz: are you still there?
[10:33] <infinity> pitti: With a really, really large laser, we wouldn't need any more OSes either.
[10:33] <pitti> heh :)
[10:38] <infinity> If this isn't the last time I build LRM today, there will be blood.
[10:38] <infinity> And tears.
[10:40] <infinity> Oh, yay, I win.
[10:41] <pitti> infinity: hm, 2.6.15-20 isn't even out of NEW? or do you still build against 19?
[10:41] <infinity> Magic.
[10:41] <pitti> you cheated and sneaked them from the buildds!
[10:42] <infinity> Nah, that would make too much sense.  I've been counting on -20- not actually breaking LRM at all.
[10:43] <infinity> Perhaps I should grab the headers from NEW and confirm that. :)
[10:45] <pitti> Riddell: ^ did it for you?
[10:45] <pitti> Riddell: it neither detects my printer, nor does the web UI work (I just get text/plain pages)
[10:47] <pitti> sivang: yeah, the counterpart of loopback is missing for that :)
[10:47] <pitti> a virtual CD burner that writes to an image
[10:48] <Seveas> pitti, mkisofs?
[10:48] <pitti> Seveas: ... behind a /dev/something, I meant :)
[10:48] <sivang> pitti: indeed :)
[10:48] <Seveas> ah, true...
[10:49] <Seveas> well, write it then :D
[10:49] <pitti> /dev/fakeburner
[10:49] <Kamion> pitti: aspell-cs done
[10:49] <pitti> thanks Kamion 
[10:49] <Kamion> can a MOTU please fix silc-toolkit? its binary packages in NEW are empty apart from documentation
[10:49] <sivang> interface injection at it's best :)
[10:50] <ajmitch> Kamion: will look at it
[10:51] <Kamion> thanks
[10:51] <infinity> Kamion: Oh hey, you're awake.  I didn't want to NEW the kernel, because, frankly, I'm too lazy to check that many overrides (and unlike you, I wouldn't know if the source matches the archive so I can just slide it in)
[10:52] <janimo> mvo, morning, just sent you a working fake-gconf for update manager
[10:53] <dholbach> Kamion: hello Colin - not to drown you in work, but if you could NEW tangerine-icon-theme - that'd be brilliant :)
[10:54] <infinity> I would also like an Ubuntu-branded pony.  Thank you.
[10:54] <Kamion> infinity: I just did; it doesn't *quite* match the archive unfortunately (a few udebs need to go to universe)
[10:54] <Kamion> I should sit down with Ben and sort that out at some point
[10:55] <Kamion> +It was downloaded from my harddisk.
[10:55] <Kamion> niiiice :P
[10:55] <infinity> debian/copyright?
[10:55] <infinity> In which package? :)
[10:55] <dholbach> Kamion: i could probably add a bzr branch :)
[10:56] <Kamion> dholbach: done, sorry for the delay
[10:56] <Kamion> infinity: tangerine-icon-theme
[10:56] <dholbach> merci beaucoup
[10:57] <sivang> pitti: btw, I was sure we already had something like that?
[10:58] <pitti> sivang: no, I doubt that :)
[10:59] <mvo> janimo: thanks
[11:01] <Kamion> lucas: oh dear god a new yada package?
[11:01] <Kamion> ah, it's by dexter, no wonder
[11:01] <infinity> Erk.
[11:02] <infinity> What now?
[11:02] <Kamion> cvssuck
[11:02] <infinity> Well, it's appropriately named.
[11:02] <Kamion> there's nothing actually wrong with it that I can pin on it, though :)
[11:03] <infinity> "unmaintainable"
[11:03] <infinity> This reminds me, I need to go on that repackaging crusade to get yada out of main. :/
[11:04] <pitti> infinity: only three packages :)
[11:04] <pitti> infinity: libapache2-mod-auth-{pam,plain}, libnss-db
[11:04] <infinity> Damn.  I care about all three too, so I can't demote them.
[11:04] <infinity> Shame.
[11:04] <infinity> At least they're all painfully simple to package.
[11:04] <pitti> yes, some simple cdbs and all will be good *duck*
[11:05] <infinity> How do you feel about death?
[11:05] <infinity> If I have to fork them and put my name on them, I'm not using cdbs. :)
[11:06] <pitti> checkrdepends cdbs dapper|wc -l -> 295; happy crusading :-P
[11:07] <infinity> Yes, but note that my name isn't in the maintainer field for any of them, and I'm not a bug contact in Malone for any of them either. :)
[11:07] <infinity> (Though glibc is "almost cdbs, but not quite", and I'm a contact for that now... But... Well... It's not my fault)
[11:09] <infinity> I'll note that, for some odd reason, I can actually follow glibc's packaging, but cdbs always leaves me flummoxed if I need to do anything "abnormal" with it.
[11:11] <doko> seb128, Riddell: font preference ping ...
[11:12] <seb128> doko: don't ask to ask just ask
[11:17] <doko> seb128: mdz agreed to the fontconfig change (back to Nimbus as default). could you prepare a gnome-whatever upload which sets DejaVu as the default for the GUI? Maybe leave "Document Font" as the default?
[11:17] <seb128> doko: the issue is that is that it'll not change the user setting
[11:18] <seb128> doko: ie: whoever ever played with the font capplet will get the new default
[11:18] <seb128> it'll only apply to new users and users who never changed the font
[11:18] <seb128> if users already played with it and have "Sans" written to the user config they will keep it
[11:18] <seb128> ie: lot of users will get Nimbus for their UI
[11:19] <doko> seb128: right, so the thing we can do is to announce, what they have to change, right?
[11:19] <seb128> that really sucks if you want my opinion
[11:19] <seb128> but yeah, we can ask everybody upgrading to reconfigure their font
[11:19] <doko> IMO it sucks more to print bad documents
[11:20] <seb128> doesn't openoffice or other allow to set a printer font?
[11:20] <doko> anyway, let's prepare that on rookery
[11:20] <doko> for -writer, not for -calc, -impress and -draw
[11:21] <seb128> I'm not happy with that, I don't prepare anything yet
[11:21] <seb128> I want a word with mdz first
[11:21] <doko> seb128: read the backlog
[11:21] <seb128> we will be flooded by people complained if they got ugly UI font on upgrade
[11:21] <seb128> what backlog?
[11:21] <doko> irc
[11:21] <doko> tonight
[11:21] <seb128> my IRC doesn't run during the night
[11:22] <janimo> Kamion, please remove xfce4-windowlist-plugin, xfce4-showdesktop-plugin and xfcalendar source packages from the archive. They have been obsoleted by xfce4-panel and orage respectively. Thank you
[11:22] <Kamion> that's why http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/ exists ...
[11:22] <seb128> doko: we should rather figure how Suse does get that working
[11:22] <seb128> if they do it there is a way
[11:23] <seb128> breaking user desktop on upgrade is not right
[11:23] <doko> seb128: No, they don't get it working, they use the Nimbus font, maybe just better rendered
[11:23] <seb128> you said yesterday they keep using "Sans" and get a non-Nimbus font used
[11:24] <seb128> urg
[11:24] <seb128> Nimbus is really ugly to use for desktop
[11:26] <jdub> nimbus has been accused of being so ugly as to provoke physical harm to the nerves between the eye and brain
[11:26] <Treenaks> http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=14217
[11:27] <doko> seb128: just install it in a vm
[11:27] <seb128> jdub: users don't deserve to be imposed that
[11:27] <doko> jdub: tell me a free alternative ...
[11:27] <seb128> doko: install what?
[11:27] <doko> seb128: just install a distro with "BAD" looking fonts
[11:28] <seb128> doko: by reading the log you didn't mention to mdz that users will have to reconfigure their fonts to not have the ugliest desktop ever
[11:28] <seb128> doko: I've switched my Ubuntu to "Nimbus" to try a few min ago, what would be different with an another distro?
[11:28] <seb128> and I don't care about another distro looking right, I want my Ubuntu desktop looking right
[11:29] <seb128> and it doesn't using that Nimbus font
[11:30] <doko> seb128: dude, maybe you could just join the discussion on the ML, instead of whining?
[11:30] <Kamion> janimo: done
[11:30] <shadeofgrey> excuse me...
[11:30] <seb128> stuff users have configured should not be changed under their feet on upgrade
[11:30] <janimo> \o/
[11:30] <shadeofgrey> im in a very desperrate situation here and i cant find anyboidy taht knows jack about using the fsck command propery
[11:30] <Kamion> shadeofgrey: what's the problem?
[11:30] <ajmitch> Kamion: silc-toolkit should have some contents now in the binary packages
[11:30] <seb128> doko: I don't know enough about fonts to join a discussion on the list, I just say that changing UI to Nimbus on upgrade ... no
[11:31] <doko> seb128: right, and letting people coming from windows having a bad experience with documents
[11:31] <shadeofgrey> kamion:  all i needto know is what to type to get fsck to check my /dev/hdb1 partition, automatically fix any errors, be verbose about it, and skip every otherr filesystem in my fstab file
[11:31] <doko> seb128: without giving any alternative
[11:31] <seb128> doko: whatever you do, you have to not break the upgrade path
[11:32] <jdub> doko: so - why is it that the top level generic aliases have an impact on documents?
[11:32] <doko> seb128: we already did break with making DejaVU/Bitstream the default
[11:32] <jdub> doko: like, i've never used 'sans' to create a document on a microsoft platform
[11:32] <seb128> I disagree imposing Nimbus to lot of people who did choice their font
[11:32] <Kamion> shadeofgrey: 'fsck -v -y /dev/hdb1' should do that, although it depends somewhat on the filesystem in use on that partition
[11:32] <Kamion> ajmitch: thanks, will look at NEW again in a bit
[11:32] <shadeofgrey> hang on ill look
[11:33] <shadeofgrey> i dont need the -a switch?
[11:33] <doko> jdub: one thing is Diziet's change to fontconfig, so that Times and Helvetica don't alias to Nimbus, but the preferred Sans and Serif, i.e. DejaVu at the moment
[11:33] <shadeofgrey> its ext3
[11:34] <Kamion> shadeofgrey: -a (or -p; same thing, but -p is preferred) is what the system does at bootup
[11:34] <Kamion> shadeofgrey: it repairs some things, but -y is a good bit more aggressive
[11:34] <shadeofgrey> okay so give me the whole line one last time then
[11:35] <shadeofgrey> bearing in mind that the part in question is ext3 formatted
[11:35] <doko> jdub: the other thing is that DejaVu is selected by default font for new documents, but this font isn't available on other platforms (maybe I don't care).
[11:35] <Kamion> if you mean "safely fix simple errors", then -p is fine; if you mean "automatically fix EVERYTHING", then -y is fine
[11:35] <Kamion> shadeofgrey: 'fsck -v -p /dev/hdb1' or 'fsck -v -y /dev/hdb1', depending on the above
[11:36] <Kamion> caveat on the above is that your filesystem has to be really pretty badly shagged before there's a risk of -y actually doing any damage, in my experience anyway
[11:36] <joelbryan> hi, I have made an interface for Gaim to handle irc:// links, filed a Bug #38115
[11:36] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 38115 in ubuntu-meta ubuntu-desktop "A software for gaim that handles irc:// links in browser" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/38115
[11:37] <jdub> doko: yeah, so i don't understand why the generic aliases should resolve to the windows equivalents first
[11:37] <shadeofgrey> thanks kamion its working!
[11:37] <shadeofgrey> ill leave now
[11:38] <shadeofgrey> i know im not supposed to be here..  but just oyut of curiosity did any of the core developers get my email of thanks for everything?
[11:38] <seb128> joelbryan: hi, that's not the right package for the bug, reassign it to "Ubuntu" rather ... that's a separate application?
[11:38] <shadeofgrey> i never got a message back from sounder saying my message had been released
[11:38] <Kamion> shadeofgrey: I certainly saw it on IRC, not sure about mail; thanks, and good luck
[11:39] <mdke> can someone tell me if gsfonts-x11 is installed by default in dapper?
[11:39] <Kamion> seb128: (I just reassigned it to plain "Ubuntu" and subscribed desktop-bugs)
[11:39] <joelbryan> seb128: yes
[11:39] <seb128> Kamion: thank you
[11:39] <doko> jdub: new documents take these aliases and spread them around the world. people trying to print these docs looks ugly. IMO we should use defaults, which many printers have as a builtin.
[11:39] <Kamion> shadeofgrey: we certainly appreciate thanks - sorry it has to be in such a situation
[11:39] <seb128> joelbryan: join #ubuntu-desktop maybe if you want to discuss it, than chan is sort of busy atm :p
[11:40] <joelbryan> ok, sorry :-)
[11:40] <dholbach> mdke: i shouldn't think so
[11:40] <shadeofgrey> kamion:  its okay...  by the way did that string you gave me with -y in it include the switch thaats supposed to make it show progress bars as it goes
[11:40] <Kamion> shadeofgrey: oh, sorry, no, that would be '-C 0'
[11:40] <shadeofgrey> kamion:  and its not like its really that big a deal... im just dying.  everybody has to do that someday anyway, and..  its not like im afraid of it
[11:41] <shadeofgrey> can I ctrl-break the operation and start it over?
[11:41] <Kamion> shadeofgrey: I wouldn't advise ctrl-c'ing fsck myself
[11:41] <phaidros> how to update alsa kernel-modules to latest? (i have the latest alsa-driver & ubuntu kernel headers in /usr/src and installed make-kpkg)
[11:41] <shadeofgrey> okay fine ill just leave it
[11:41] <shadeofgrey> no biggie
[11:41] <Kamion> I usually find it a good opportunity for a coffee :-)
[11:42] <Kamion> (or moral equivalent)
[11:42] <jdub> doko: people on other platforms who try to print documents authored on linux platforms?
[11:42] <jdub> s/linux/free/
[11:42] <shadeofgrey> i hoipe i live to see dapper release in june.  its goiung to look like a very professional badass of a distro when everytuhing is done
[11:43] <shadeofgrey> my only regret is that i never did manage to buy my mac laptop and 30inch cinema display
[11:43] <doko> jdub: print or view, as long as the fonts are not included in the document
[11:43] <Kamion> hey, you're lucky you have ROOM for a 30" cinema display
[11:43] <Riddell> Kamion: changelog added for apt-install
[11:43] <shadeofgrey> okay ill leave now
[11:43] <jdub> doko: dude, ultimately i don't think this is either a) solvable or b) our problem to solve
[11:44] <shadeofgrey> im impeding progress
[11:44] <Kamion> Riddell: thanks
[11:44] <Kamion> shadeofgrey: we do like to keep the channel clear for development, but everyone's welcome to stay and watch if they want
[11:44] <Riddell> pitti: I'm not sure if rc 1 works, I only tried it with the KDE tools, I can try it with the web frontend if you want
[11:45] <Riddell> doko: why change to Nimbus?
[11:45] <shadeofgrey> nah its cool.  i got detention the other day for distracting and trying to feed a few of the coders behind the security gate
[11:45] <pitti> Riddell: I set up my printer with the current dapper version, then upgraded to rc1, but I only get ghostscript errors and a non-working usb backend. pretty frustrating...
[11:46] <mdke> dholbach, thanks
[11:47] <pitti> Riddell: do you have an usb printer?
[11:47] <doko> Riddell: please see my mail to -devel
[11:47] <Riddell> pitti: yes, let me go next door and test it
[11:48] <doko> jdub: it's a problem if people com from other platforms and their docs look scrambled
[11:48] <jdub> doko: right, but surely our aliases for their font names would 'fix' that (apart from the fact that we don't ship metric-compatible fonts)
[11:49] <jdub> doko: that doesn't answer the question about our generic aliases though, because documents from other platforms don't use our generic aliases :)
[11:49] <Kinnison> dholbach: the gparted guys never want us to settle, do they?
[11:49] <dholbach> not really
[11:50] <Kinnison> ogra: do you still need someone to look?
[11:50] <dholbach> i can do the "update" again
[11:50] <doko> jdub: but we fall back to metric incompatible aliases
[11:50] <dholbach> Kinnison: but anyway... I doubt that our problem will be fixed
[11:50] <Kinnison> dholbach: indeed
[11:50] <Kinnison> dholbach: it's most odd
[11:50] <dholbach> Kinnison: i'll get cracking on it
[11:50] <dholbach> the update, that is
[11:50] <TheMuso> Mithrandir: ping
[11:50] <jdub> doko: that only matters for non-generic fallbacks
[11:51] <doko> jdub: is the end user interested if the fallback is generic or not?
[11:52] <dholbach> Kinnison: hihi... apparently we're not the only ones in thinking that... nobody downloaded a tarball yet :)
[11:52] <jdub> doko: ie. a friend gives me a document in times new roman (PUKE!), which fontconfig will not find, but fall back to thorndale amt. that doesn't exist, so it will fall back to something else that is not metric-compatible. we can't do better anyway.
[11:53] <doko> jdub: we could fallback to Nimbus, which still looks better than falling back to DejaVu
[11:53] <Kinnison> dholbach: *g*
[11:54] <jdub> doko: yeah - and that should go in the list for 'times new roman', *not* sans
[11:54] <jdub> or serif or whatever
[11:55] <infinity> Indeed, I'd be inclined to say that if you use a generic name, you are prepared to not have compatible metrics.
[11:55] <jdub> solving this properly involves combinatorial brainfuckage
[11:55] <infinity> (This has certainly been the case for web designers for years, where generic names are the norm)
[11:55] <jdub> so we can skim the major use cases off the top
[11:55] <infinity> Printed documents should specify exact fonts if they want them, and then we can attempt to match those.
[11:55] <jdub> attempt to fix those ('cos we can't be metric compatible and Free at the same time)
[11:55] <infinity> Claiming "serif should be the same everywhere" is BS.
[11:56] <doko> right, but then web pages don't use an absolute layout as word processors do (and no, abiword is not better in this respect)
[11:56] <jdub> infinity: different argument
[11:56] <jdub> doko: sure - please add numbus to the fallbacks for the specific font names
[11:56] <jdub> (ha ha numbus)
[11:57] <Kamion> infinity: all l-r-m binaries in; if you want to do linux-meta, go for it ...
[11:57] <infinity> Kamion: I already did.
[11:57] <phaidros> bugzilla vertificate has expired half a year ago ;)
[11:57] <infinity> Kamion: Thpt. :)
[11:57] <phaidros> s/vertivicate/certificate
[11:58] <Kamion> infinity: heh
[12:02] <Riddell> pitti: well cups from svn doesn't seem to want to talk to hplip and there's no suitable driver under HP
[12:02] <pitti> Riddell: it doesn't want to talk to my usb printer either
[12:03] <phaidros> howto build newer alsa-driver to ubuntu kernel?
[12:03] <phaidros> just make? does this break something?
[12:04] <infinity> phaidros: Please take this to #ubuntu, this is not a support channel.
[12:05] <janimo> infinity: how close are you to #3 in your TODO :)
[12:06] <infinity> janimo: If I fall victim to insomnia tonight, "very close".
[12:06] <janimo> good. It's like with install images, once set up they go daily right?
[12:06] <infinity> Yup.
[12:07] <phaidros> infinity, hm ok. but i thougt its more a devel question ;)
[12:07] <pitti> Riddell: ok, the usb refusal is just a device permission error; chmod 666 /dev/usblp0 cures it for me, and now it detects/prints happily :)
[12:08] <infinity> phaidros: "How do I compile something" has nothing to do with developing Ubuntu itself.
[12:08] <phaidros> infinity, yeah, but its about upgrading alsa in the latest ubntu kernel :)
[12:09] <TheMuso> phaidros: A new kernel has come out on the archives. Have you checked to see whether that has the fixes etc that you are looking for?
[12:09] <phaidros> TheMuso, which archive? the latest dapper kernel is running here
[12:10] <TheMuso> phaidros: 2.6.15-20?
[12:10] <phaidros> 2.6.15-19-686
[12:10] <phaidros> ah!
[12:10] <infinity> To be far, it only JUST got published, like 40 minutes ago.
[12:10] <phaidros> TheMuso, not on dapper repos yet :9
[12:10] <TheMuso> phaidros: Yes it is. I am grabbing it as we speak.
[12:26] <phaidros> so far no restricted modules for 2.6.15-20 so far :/
[12:26] <jdub> it has been uploaded
[12:26] <Kamion> phaidros: wait, ooh, about five minutes
[12:26] <phaidros> :)
[12:26] <phaidros> kewl
[12:26] <Kamion> $patience{phaidros}++
[12:28] <sivang> pitti: dead lock problem maybe and the slowdown solves it?:)
[12:30] <phaidros> Kamion, its in :)
[12:30] <infinity> phaidros: We know.
[12:31] <phaidros> btw.  which alsa version is in ?
[12:32] <dholbach> Kinnison: after first forgetting two hunks, then doing it again and deleting the wrong directory, the result is the same
[12:32] <dholbach> Kinnison: it's up at http://daniel.holba.ch/ubuntu/gparted
[12:32] <dholbach> narf...
[12:33] <Kinnison> dholbach: When I've finished this launchpad test set so that there isn't an un-regression-tested patch to the uploader in production, I'll take a look
[12:41] <phaidros> ok, 20 is nice, but still the same version of alsa-drivers as before.
[12:41] <slomo_> Kamion: when you move gstreamer0.10-pitfdll to multiverse you should move pitfdll to multiverse too... it's in fact only a new upstream version of pitfdll
[12:41] <ajmitch> phaidros: a lot of fixes get pulled from cvs for alsa
[12:41] <phaidros> is there a howto anywhwere for compiling modules to an ubuntu kernel (I'm familiar with kernel in general, but not with procedures like make-kpkg)
[12:42] <ajmitch> phaidros: have you filed a bug about what isn't working with the current kernel?
[12:45] <phaidros> ajmitch, inot yet. i just have issues recording from line-in .. which is most likely an alsa issue ..
[12:45] <phaidros> for that I wanted to try for myself before filing a bug ..
[12:47] <phaidros> and its somehow urgent .. that why I really wanna try out latest stable alsa, if that doesn't bring it alsa-cvs and if all is not working filing bug to ubuntu and maybe alsa too
[12:52] <Kamion> slomo_: I didn't particularly "move" it, I made a judgement on the new package and didn't notice the existing one
[12:52] <Kamion> slomo_: I reckon anything which says that it needs w32codecs to work properly belongs in multiverse, personally
 dholbach: the gparted guys never want us to settle, do they?
[12:54] <JanC> there is only one "gparted guy", imagine what would happen if there were more...   :P
[12:55] <slomo_> Kamion: me too ;) but to be consistent could you move pitfdll too?
[12:55] <dholbach> JanC: one of those guys could help us figure out how to apply our installer patch correctly to the new version? ;-pp
[12:57] <Kamion> slomo_: done
[12:59] <slomo_> Kamion: thanks :)
[01:05] <Diziet> doko: fontconfig> Can you remember all the stuff that was discussed at the timek ?
[01:06] <Diziet> IIRC it was quite inconclusive and my mail to various places says `I'm far from convinced that this is a wholly correct solution' ...
[01:08] <doko> Diziet: yes, I do, but not beeing able to print docs correctly seems to be bad either
[01:09] <doko> Diziet: can't you just disable "use webpage fonts" in the preferences?
[01:09] <Diziet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2005-September/011659.html seems relatively clear.
[01:09] <Diziet> *blink* I'm not sure disabling `use webpage fonts' is the right answer.
[01:10] <Diziet> Can't we make fontconfig give different answers for printing and display ?
[01:10] <Diziet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2005-September/011667.html
[01:11] <doko> Diziet: even then, that would not help for #31596 mentioned in https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2006-March/016949.html
[01:12] <doko> no, fontconfig cannot differentiate between devices
[01:12] <Diziet> Well, can't we fix that for Dapper ?
[01:12] <Diziet> It's not a question of the device so much as whether the metrics have to be right.
[01:14] <doko> what you are asking is to modify all applications which take the default from fontconfig, so that just firefox displays not so ugly characters?
[01:14] <Diziet> I don't mind which applications we change.  We could change firefox to set a `don't care about metric' flag, rather than the other way around.
[01:14] <Diziet> Is it only firefox which uses fontconfig for display ?
[01:15] <Diziet> (I mean, in a situation where the metrics don't have to be right.)
[01:15] <Diziet> (They don't have to be right - ie, the same as the requested font - for printing in Firefox either, AIUI.)
[01:17] <doko> apparently evince does as well, and displays wrong results
[01:18] <Diziet> evince needs the metrics to be right.
[01:19] <mjg59> evince currently appears to display stuff like utter arse
[01:21] <mvo> is it a known problem that the current live-cd appears to be hanging on splash-down? nothing happens after the cd was ejected
[01:24] <pitti> mvo: yes, press enter
[01:26] <Diziet> doko: Let me think about a way to fix this in fontconfig.  I'll write up a suggestion on a wiki page and post to -devel.
[01:26] <Diziet> Is there a relevant Malone bug atm ?
[01:28] <doko> #31596 is one
[01:30] <Diziet> Noted, thanks.
[01:44] <pitti> BenC: here?
[01:44] <infinity>  * Stopping Common Unix Printing System: cupsd                                               [ ok ] 
[01:44] <infinity>  * Starting Common Unix Printing System: cupsd    ...done.
[01:44] <infinity> Something seems... COnfused.
[01:44] <pitti> yes, that's a common display bug from our lsb init script fork
[01:45] <infinity> Really?  First time I've ever noticed it.  Whacky.
[01:45] <Kamion> Riddell: belatedly, merged and pushed
[01:45] <pitti> infinity: odd, I see that bug with e. g. postgresql all the time
[01:46] <infinity> And restart does a spurious log_end_msg.
[01:46] <infinity> pitti: Do you do a log_end_msg without a begin_msg in postgres, by any chance?
[01:46] <pitti> infinity: for start it's indeed missing
[01:46] <infinity> pitti: That looks to be the bug in cupsys.
[01:46] <infinity> pitti: For start, it's missing ,and for restart, there's an extra that shouldn't be there at all.
[01:47] <pitti> yep, indeed
[01:47] <pitti> it fell down a few lines :)
[01:47] <infinity> :)
[01:47] <pitti> will use better nails next time, sorry
[01:47] <infinity> Shall I upload for it, or are you on it?
[01:48] <pitti> infinity: don't bother, I'm currently changing the cupsys package heavily anyway
[01:48] <infinity> Ahh, rock.  Cool.
[01:48] <pitti> added to todo list, thanks
[01:49] <Riddell> Kamion: thanks
[01:49] <ajmitch> infinity: are you planning to do mass rebuilds for openssl & mysql?
[01:49] <pitti> huh, openssl?
[01:49] <pitti> ajmitch: ah, for universe?
[01:49] <ajmitch> hm, that's what I was told
[01:50] <ajmitch> yeah
[01:50] <pitti> ajmitch: would be nice to drop openssl097 entirely, yes
[01:51] <infinity> ajmitch: I plan to do mass rebuilds for MySQL tomorrow (right after I let it through binary NEW, which I won't do until i have a mess of uploads ready to fire off)
[01:51] <infinity> ajmitch: openssl isn't as urgent (since you can have both versions installed together), but it sure would be nice to get 097 gone.
[01:51] <ajmitch> ok, we might as well handle openssl ourselves then
[01:52] <infinity> I can do some of them, as they irritate me.
[01:53] <infinity> But your best bet it to do mass no-change uploads, then see what fails to build.  Then go back and clean up the mess. :)
[01:53] <ajmitch> and the bug reports we've started getting asking for rebuilds irritate me :)
[01:53] <infinity> (While I'd normally never advocate such a thing, test-building more than 100 packages doesn't sound all that fun to me)
[01:53] <infinity> 99% of packages should transition smoothly anyway.
[01:53] <sivang> infinity: who said fun is to be inloved ?:)
[01:53] <ajmitch> I'm sure I could build a few hundred easily enough :)
[01:54] <infinity> It's only rarely that the 0.9.7 -> 0.9.8 API changes bite.
[01:54] <infinity> And they'll always bite as a build failure, not a runtime failure, so you're safe from breaking anything.
[01:56] <ajmitch> looks to be 89 source packages
[01:58] <infinity> Oh, well, that's not so bad, then.
[01:59] <infinity> And if any of them do FTBFS, I'm sure Debian's already got patches for all of them.
[01:59] <ajmitch> yeah, I should be able to test-build those overnight without trouble
[01:59] <infinity> (Most of the API changes are simple renames of constants and such)
[01:59] <TheMuso> c/
[02:01] <pitti> Riddell: ok, I finally discovered what's breaking cupsys; let's see whether it'll help you, too :)
[02:02] <Riddell> pitti: what's that?
[02:03] <pitti> Riddell: first, upstream always changes to 'nogroup' (that's fixed in debian/ubuntu since ages), and second the latest rc1 drops the user id, but not the group id in cups-deviced
[02:03] <pitti> Riddell: i. e. it tries to access /dev/usblp0 (root:lp) as user lp and group root
[02:03] <pitti> which fails, of course
[02:05] <Toadstool> hi here, someone to review the last debdiff attached to bug 36505?
[02:05] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 36505 in lintian "Ubuntu Lintian shouldn't do the nmu checks" [Wishlist,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/36505
[02:07] <pitti> Riddell: try sudo chmod 700 /usr/lib/cups/backend-available/*
[02:12] <Riddell> pitti: no different, it still doesn't list the make under HP and HPLIP makes the web interface timeout
[02:18] <BenC> pitti: yeah
[02:18] <pitti> BenC: I tested the new kernel with the AE; works pretty well :)
[02:18] <BenC> pitti: nice, thanks mjg59 :)
[02:18] <pitti> BenC: however, do you get these 'ethX: link not ready' messages in dmesg, too?
[02:19] <pitti> they are the cause for the initial dhcp timeout
[02:19] <pitti> BenC: the cause is that the access point defaults to 'invalid'
[02:19] <pitti> BenC: if I do 'iwconfig eth0 ap any' it instantly works
[02:19] <pitti> BenC: do you get this with your card, too?
[02:19] <BenC> haven't seen that
[02:19] <pitti> might be special for the Airport Express, both ogra and I have it
[02:21] <pitti> BenC: any idea why it could default to 'invalid'? is that a driver or a firmware issue?
[02:21] <BenC> I have an AE too
[02:21] <pitti> BenC: or, rather, any chance to set it to 'any' by default?
[02:21] <BenC> probably softmac issue
[02:21] <pitti> BenC: I got the same 'link not ready' error in -19, but then, after some fiddling and waiting, it suddenly went to 'link ready'
[02:22] <pitti> but it didn't work (or I ran out of patience) with 20
[02:22] <pitti> I just found that access point trick pretty neat, it could point to the real cause of that bug
[02:28] <Kamion> argh
[02:28] <Kamion> (random 'export DH_OPTIONS')--, especially when you're calling debian/rules in nested packages
[02:42] <slomo_> pitti: does your airport extreme work now? mine still doesn't :(
[02:43] <pitti> slomo_: yes, it works for quite a while now
[02:43] <pitti> slomo_: n-m 0.5.1 worked like charm, 0.6.x totally broke
[02:43] <ogra> pitti, would it be very hard to split out kdeedu langpacks ? 
[02:43] <slomo_> pitti: i still don't get a connection to anything :) no matter whether i use nm or do it by hand... or whether the network is encrypted or not :(
[02:44] <ogra> (we need to install the whole kde packs for 6 apps, splitting them would gian a lot of space)
[02:44] <ogra> (in edubuntu that is)
[02:44] <pitti> slomo_: http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/scripts/airport-extreme
[02:44] <pitti> slomo_: that's an /etc/network/if-pre-up.d/ script
[02:45] <pitti> slomo_: you can also run it manually of course, with IFACE=eth0 (or whatever)
[02:45] <slomo_> pitti: hm, i didn't try to set the rate to 11mbps... maybe that was the mistake :)
[02:46] <pitti> slomo_: yes, it's still necessary for me; also the 'ap any'
[02:46] <pitti> slomo_: iwconfig -> does it show 'access point: invalid'?
[02:46] <pitti> (that's what the ap any fixes)
[02:47] <pitti> ogra: not hard, but it would result in yet another 100 packages or so
[02:48] <ogra> pitti, i wouldnt mind ... if i can get more than one language on the CD afterwards ...
[02:51] <pitti> but it was already controversial enough to split off kde/gnome langpacks, hmm
[02:51] <mdke> infinity, see my ping about flashplayer? Just wanted an indication of whether there is a chance of getting it back, because we're finalising the desktop guide at the moment
[02:51] <ogra> pitti, lets talk later about it (edubuntu meeting currently) 
[02:52] <ogra> it was just an idea that came up
[02:52] <mdke> Diziet, did you see my email about firefox homepage translations? is it going to be possible? if so, I'd like to start gathering some translations immediately
[02:53] <Diziet> Yes, I saw your mail.  I haven't looked at the recent events yet.
[02:53] <Diziet> I don't see why it shouldn't be possible to do it in dapper the way we planned to in breezy.
[02:53] <mdke> Diziet, cool. thanks. are there recent events?
[02:54] <Diziet> But note that this doesn't depend on a change to the firefox package.
[02:54] <Diziet> Well, any recent events.  Your mail had a bug URL in it which I didn't read.
[02:54] <mdke> ah, right. no, should be fine
[02:54] <Diziet> IIRC
[02:54] <mdke> but the firefox changes are for the locale-induced homepage url
[02:54] <Diziet> The changes are to the langpacks and err, as documented on that wiki page I wrote.
[02:54] <slomo_> pitti: rate auto doesn't work at all?
[02:55] <Diziet> No, the homepage url has to be supplied by the mozilla-firefox-locale-foo-bar package.
[02:55] <pitti> slomo_: no idea, didn't try that yet
[02:55] <Diziet> That is, specified there.
[02:55] <mdke> Diziet, yeah. don't you take care of that package?
[02:55] <Diziet> No, not normally.
[02:56] <Diziet> Last time I looked at it the build system turned out to be crazy.
[02:56] <mdke> Diziet, ok, who do I ping about that? afaik, the langpacks don't come into it
[02:56] <Diziet> Sorry, yes, I misspoke.
[02:56] <pitti> slomo_: alright, it works
[02:56] <Diziet> Well, leaving it to whoever normally does that didn't work.  Why don't we put it on my plate ?
[02:57] <pitti> slomo_: so, after loading the module, I just need to do 'sudo iwconfig eth0 rate auto ap any' and then it works 
[02:57] <Diziet> What happened to the list of locales on DapperFirefoxStartPageTranslation ?
[02:57] <slomo_> pitti: cool :) even with 54mbps? ;)
[02:57] <pitti> BenC: ^ any chance to fix that in the driver? or do we need to invent an userspace solution for that?
[02:57] <pitti> slomo_: no idea, I just have an 11mbit AP here
[02:57] <BenC> pitti: I'll look into a driver fix
[02:58] <mdke> Diziet, we haven't done one. there aren't any translations yet: I will mail the various translator lists to get some
[02:58] <pitti> great :)
[02:58] <Diziet> mdke: It's OK for there to be entries in the list for nonexistent translations.
[02:58] <mdke> Diziet, ok, so what's the list for?
[02:58] <Diziet> We'll make them be a symlink to the English version.
[02:59] <Diziet> (Or some other plausible version.)
[02:59] <mdke> yep
[02:59] <mdke> ok i'll start the translation-hunt. and get back to you about changing mozilla-firefox-locale-all
[03:00] <Diziet> The list is needed to avoid (a) `file not found errors' (m-f-l-all thinks the translation exists but ubuntu-docs doesn't provide it) or (b) translations not used (vice versa).
[03:00] <Diziet> mdke: m-f-l-all> Sure.  Just remember that we are _not_ changing this list.  Write it once.
[03:00] <Diziet> So it should contain all locales for which a translation _might_ become available.
[03:00] <mdke> Diziet, so what you are saying is that the list should have a full list of locales?
[03:00] <Diziet> More or less, yes.
[03:00] <mdke> heh, right
[03:01] <Diziet> But it doesn't have to contain locales where we're sure we're not going to have a translation.
[03:01] <infinity> Diziet: Erm, wait.  How is this translation business going to work?
[03:01] <mdke> i'll copy it from rosetta, or something
[03:01] <Diziet> infinity: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperFirefoxStartPageTranslation
[03:01] <Kamion> Locales do get added from time to time; our plan has to include the possibility of new locales turning up later
[03:01] <Diziet> kamion: Sadly the hack that is DapperFirefoxStartPageTranslation doesn't cope with that.
[03:02] <Diziet> It would be nice if the browser had some more comprehensive support but this is not the case.
[03:02] <Kamion> Diziet: that's unfortunate - some of the locales in question end up being ones we care about down the line
[03:02] <Kamion> or have ended up being, in the past
[03:02] <Diziet> We can change the list from release to release, IYSWIM.
[03:02] <Kamion> ah, that's ok then
[03:02] <Diziet> But we don't want to change it in an update or the like.
[03:02] <infinity> mdke: I haven't had a chance to hunt down the right people to ask yet, sorry. :/
[03:02] <Kamion> but it should match the list of locales we have in each release?
[03:03] <Diziet> And it's best for stability during the dev cycle if we avoiding change it if we can.
[03:03] <Diziet> kamion: No, it can be a superset.
[03:03] <mdke> infinity, ok, shall we go with the downloader package then?
[03:03] <Diziet> It has to be a subset of the locales for which m-f-l-all provides a locale-specific jar.
[03:03] <infinity> Diziet: So, using the .jar file, I can have multiple firefox locales installed, but I'll see the homepage for whatever my current locale is, right?
[03:03] <Diziet> That's the idea, yes.
[03:04] <Diziet> Just like you get translated menus and what have you.
[03:04] <infinity> Excellent.
[03:04] <Diziet> But it's a grim hack, hence the need for a master list of locales.
[03:04] <mdke> ok, I can go trigger the translators?
[03:04] <Diziet> mdke: Yes.
[03:04] <mdke> great, thanks again
[03:04] <Diziet> DapperFirefoxStartPageTranslation may be a grim hack but it's definitely better than nothing.
[03:05] <Diziet> So, yes, let me know when you want me to break^Wmess with^W^Wadjust m-f-l-all.
[03:05] <mdke> Diziet, I will
[03:06] <infinity> If you update ubuntu-docs right now to provide symlinks for every locale that m-f-l-all ships, the m-f-l-all can be updated right now.
[03:06] <infinity> Then the symlinks can be replaced with real files as they become available.
[03:06] <Diziet> What infinity said.
[03:07] <mdke> clever. could do that
[03:07] <infinity> (Can the .jar not be made intelligent, so it looks for locale.html, and falls back to index if it's not there?)
[03:07] <mdke> we need this damn list though
[03:07] <Diziet> infinity: Unfortunately not; it's just static.
[03:07] <infinity> mdke: The list is in the m-f-l-all source package.
[03:07] <mdke> infinity, i'll look, thanks
[03:07] <Diziet> Cut and paste it from there onto the wiki page and then into the ubuntu-docs package.
[03:07] <Kamion> wow, I think my huge espresso reorg works
[03:08] <Diziet> Quadruple with extra sugar ?
[03:08] <Kamion> given the size the source package is about to become, probably, yes
[03:08] <Diziet> Which reminds me, I need coffee.
[03:09] <mdke> before I start the translators, does anyone see any typos or anything in the current browser homepage?
[03:09] <infinity> Diziet: So, does it need to be an exact match, then? (ie: for fr-fr, the filename needs to be fr-fr, but for ca, just ca?)
[03:09] <infinity> Err, fr-FR even...
[03:11] <infinity> mdke: Current list of XPIs shipped in the locale-all package:
[03:11] <infinity> ar bg-BG ca cs-CZ da-DK de-DE el en-GB es-AR es-ES eu fi-FI fr-FR ga-IE gu-IN he-IL hu-HU it-IT ja-JP ko lt mk-MK mn nb-NO nl-NL pa-IN pl-PL pt-BR ro-RO ru-RU sk sl-SI sv-SE tr-TR zh-CN zh-TW
[03:12] <mdke> infinity, thanks. so I do links for each of those? does the address matter? something like /usr/share/ubuntu-artwork/home/en_GB ?
[03:13] <Diziet> infinity: The exact list of filenames which exist (as translations or links) needs to be known.
[03:13] <Diziet> /usr/share/ubuntu-artwork/home/index-LOCALE.html  according to the spec.
[03:14] <Diziet> where LOCALE is en_GB or ar or something.
[03:14] <mdke> ok, that would be better, it has the same relationship to the css file that way
[03:15] <mdke> Diziet, so if people send me translations for locales which aren't in infinity's list, that will be ok?
[03:17] <infinity> mdke: Extra files shouldn't hurt, they just will never be displayed by firefox without firefox having a corresponding locale installed.
[03:17] <infinity> (which won't happen unless we get a firefox locale for that language)
[03:17] <mdke> ok, fingers crossed
[03:17] <Diziet> mdke: So I wouldn't encourage people to do that work !
[03:18] <mdke> oh
[03:18] <mdke> so if someone sends a translation, and there is no firefox locale, can a locale be made? 
[03:19] <Diziet> I don't know how expensive making a new locale is but at the very least it's a PITA to synchronise the changes to ubuntu-doc and m-f-l-all
[03:20] <mdke> I think I will try and include all translations that I get
[03:20] <mdke> then if they don't appear, people can file bugs about missing firefox locales
[03:20] <mdke> make sense?
[03:20] <Diziet> Have you read and understood DapperFirefoxStartPageTranslation ?
[03:21] <infinity> Makes sense to me.  If translators are willing to do the homepage, maybe that will motivate them to contribute full firefox locale updates, too.
[03:21] <Diziet> Adding the locale is not something we'd do in an update, just to be clear.
[03:21] <mdke> Diziet, sure. I wrote most of it
[03:21] <infinity> mdke: Anyhow, just make sure everything in that list has (at least) a symlink.
[03:21] <seb128> mdke: want to /j #ubuntu-desktop later to discuss your s-j icon issue? :)
[03:22] <infinity> mdke: Anything EXTA is fine, but anything missing would be disastrous to the current plan. :)
[03:22] <infinity> s/EXTA/EXTRA/
[03:22] <mdke> infinity, will do
[03:22] <mdke> seb128, i'd rather do it via the bug, I'm a bit swamped
[03:23] <infinity> Diziet: It's possible we could see adding locales in -updates as a useful community service.  "updating locales for stable releases" is one of the reasons behind rosetta and langpacks, I don't see how m-f-l-all should be any different.
[03:23] <seb128> mdke: it should take 1 min on IRC, but as you prefer
[03:23] <mdke> seb128, i haven't got my dapper system booted
[03:23] <seb128> mdke: k, I'll comment on the bug so :)
[03:27] <mdke> seb128, thanks
[03:29] <mdke> Diziet, infinity, so if debian/links for ubuntu-docs looks like this: http://mdke.org/links is that right?
[03:34] <infinity> Hrm, one thing this scheme doesn't address is how derivatives can do translations of their branded homepages.
[03:34] <infinity> (since index.html is an alternative, but we certainly don't want to make all 30+ translation homepages alternatives, that just gets messy)
[03:36] <mdke> infinity, yes, it's all rather disturbing. Perhaps the problem is caused by this file being shipped by ubuntu-docs?
[03:37] <infinity> mdke: Shipping it elsewhere wouldn't improve things any.
[03:39] <mdke> infinity, ok. Is the localisation effort going to disrupt the kubuntu/edubuntu alternatives for that file?
[03:39] <infinity> mdke: No and yes.
[03:39] <mdke> for example, if someone uses edubuntu, and firefox, and one of those locales, is he gonna get an edubuntu homepage?
[03:39] <ogra> i was pointing that out in breezy already ...
[03:40] <infinity> mdke: Their alternatives will work just fine... For that one file... So, if you're running kubuntu in English, or in an untranslated locale, it'll continue to work as you'd expect.  If you're running kubuntu in a translated locale, you'll get the (translated) Ubuntu homepage, instead of the Kubuntu homepage.
[03:41] <mdke> that's uber bad
[03:41] <mdke> can we resolve that?
[03:45] <infinity> It is really bad?
[03:45] <infinity> I mean, it's bad if kubunt and edubuntu start getting translations too.
[03:45] <infinity> But until then, I'd rather see a translated Ubuntu start page than an english Kubuntu one.
[03:46] <infinity> (Especially if I don't speak English)
[03:46] <mdke> interesting point
[03:46] <mdke> ogra, ?
[03:47] <jsgotangco> i think it works fine
[03:47] <infinity> If kubuntu and edubuntu start getting translations, we need to make every single one of those index-LOCALE.html files an alternative.  Whee.
[03:48] <mdke> can we do a spec for sorting this out better in dapper+1, then forge ahead on this for dapper?
[03:48] <jsgotangco> that would be fab (the spec)
[03:49] <infinity> mdke: I'd just go ahead and do it as planned for now.  Any progress is better than none.
[03:49] <sivang> mdke: what the last dead line for the translated firefox start page?
[03:49] <mdke> sivang, eh?
[03:49] <jsgotangco> should be the same for translation deadlines i presume
[03:50] <mdke> ah oh right
[03:50] <mdke> 18th May
[03:50] <mdke> try sooner if possible
[03:52] <sivang> yes, I have a close relative of mine that is going to help me with translation works as I do a load of other stuff, as you know :)
[03:52] <sivang> cool, I'll let him know
[03:54] <infinity> sladen: Impressive.
[03:55] <Diziet> doko: ping
[03:56] <doko> here
[03:56] <Diziet> I'm trying to edit the bash source package.  It has your name on it.
[03:56] <Diziet> It seems to be using a crazy patch system.
[03:56] <Diziet> I mean, even crazier than most.
[03:57] <infinity> dbs?
[03:57] <Diziet> Where is the documentation ?  And why isn't there any in the package ?
[03:57] <mvo> original dpatch?
[03:57] <Diziet> No, it looks like a bastard thing a bit like dpatch.
[03:57] <infinity> Oldskool dpatch, yeahp.
[03:57] <Diziet> Lots of the files are called something dpatch something but there is no build-depends on dpatch.
[03:57] <infinity> Diziet: dpatch used to be included in debian/*, before it got packaged and standardised.
[03:58] <infinity> Diziet: This is one of the older implementations. :)
[03:58] <mdke> infinity, so if that links file is ok, I'll commit it and ask dholbach to upload
[03:58] <Diziet> I wouldn't mind (actually, I would only mind VERY MUCH) rather than being COMPLETELY NAUSEATED) if there were some DOCUMENTATION.
[03:59] <sivang> package, even
[03:59] <Diziet> My current plan unless someone gives me a better idea is to clone-and-hack something else from debian/patches and make sure never to edit a built tree.
[03:59] <infinity> Diziet: I'm campaigning for a "debian/rules help". :)
[03:59] <Diziet> *vom* but it's necessary I suppose.
[04:00] <infinity> Diziet: I think I'll sneak it into both the default dh_make template and cdbs, so it becomes a defacto standard overnight, then push for a policy ammendment. :)
[04:00] <doko> Diziet: yes, it's old dpatch ;-)
[04:00] <Diziet> Yes, well, where is the documentation telling me how to drive it ?
[04:01] <infinity> Diziet: The documentation is deciphering the makefile, sadly.
[04:01] <Diziet> Right.  Well, I'll try my original plan then which doesn't involve deciphering the makefile.  It just means I have to edit the bash source code by editing a diff in Emacs.
[04:02] <infinity> Diziet: And adding your new patch to the "debian_patches" list in the makefile.
[04:02] <Diziet> Yes, I was going to grep for the name of the patch I was going to clone-and-hack.
[04:02] <doko> Diziet: as infinity said.
[04:03] <doko> if you are going to make an upload, please add the two upstream patches
[04:03] <Diziet> This is almost as bad as editing firefox source code.  Why does a package have to have a build system nearly as impenetrable as the actual code for a ~1Mloc web browser ?
[04:03] <doko> s/two/two new/
[04:03] <Diziet> I'm not adding any upstream patches to this nightmare.
[04:10] <HiddenWolf> guys, question
[04:10] <HiddenWolf> I just came across wpasupplicant in my dist-upgrade
[04:11] <HiddenWolf> Setting up wpasupplicant (0.4.8-1build1) ...
[04:11] <HiddenWolf>  Removing any system startup links for /etc/init.d/wpasupplicant ...
[04:11] <HiddenWolf> what is going on here? 
[04:12] <slomo_> HiddenWolf: the init script is no longer needed... you can do everything you want with the interface configurations
[04:12] <HiddenWolf> slomo_: I'd rather do nothing, It's a desktop, but the message looks Odd
[04:12] <HiddenWolf> "let's install it, but let's not start/use it"
[04:13] <Kamion> it's not started by an init script any more, that's all, it's launched elsewhere
[04:14] <Kamion> (by the ifupdown infrastructure)
[04:16] <slomo_> Kamion: are the packages you accepted from NEW today again on NEW for the binary packages? or is there something broken with the publisher? at least i don't see the binaries anywhere
[04:17] <Kamion> slomo_: yes, source and binary NEW are independent
[04:17] <infinity> (since you can't know what new binaries you have until they're uploaded, which requires the source being accepted and built)
[04:18] <sladen> feck0ring apple
[04:19] <slomo_> oh ok, thanks... infinity, why can't you know them before building? they're all listed in control... because they could fail on some archs by design and won't be there?
[04:19] <sladen> now with added l3gacy support
[04:20] <elmo> slomo_: debian source packages don't accurately describe what they build
[04:21] <Kamion> slomo_: furthermore, I am *not* NEWing binaries before I see what they actually contain (i.e. dpkg -I, dpkg -c)
[04:21] <mdke> dholbach, can you do a -docs upload at some stage, I've just added some stuff for browser homepage translation
[04:21] <Kamion> I'm not processing them on the basis of debian/control, that's not good enough, I'd have to test-build to check that they're halfway sane in many cases, and why bother
[04:22] <Kamion> slomo_: for example the multiple packages that I've caught over the last few days that built binaries that were empty except for documentation
[04:22] <slomo_> Kamion: ok, sounds sane :) and that short additional delay won't hurt anyone normally
[04:22] <Kamion> only the chronically impatient, generally
[04:22] <mdke> Diziet, infinity, once daniel has uploaded an ubuntu-docs package (6.04.3), you can go to work on the mozilla locale thing, I hope. I've added links for everything in that list, except "lt", which has a translation already, so I've shipped that too
[04:27] <trappist> anybody know what system-conf.xml is in the serverguide dir? 
[04:27] <trappist> not currently used?
[04:27] <Diziet> mdke: Right, thanks.  Can you make sure I get an email about it ?  I don't watch the uploads very closely and IRC isn't very reliable :-).
[04:28] <mdke> Diziet, good idea
[04:28] <mdke> trappist, ECHAN
[04:28] <trappist> eh?
[04:28] <trappist> god bless you
[04:29] <bddebian> trappist: He is saying wrong channel :-)
[04:29] <trappist> doh!
[04:32] <zakame> LOL
[04:32] <zakame> er ELOL
[04:36] <bddebian> ENOTFUNNY
[04:36] <bddebian> :-)
[04:43] <Diziet> doko: You'll see I've just uploaded a bash with an appropriate fix.  The patch has gone to debbugs too (which is down atm) FYI.
[04:43] <Diziet> doko: Also, I was wanting to talk to you about KRGB and hpijs (Malone 23099).
[04:43] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 23099 in hplip hpijs "ghostscript needs patch for KRGB printing" [Normal,Rejected]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/23099
[04:43] <infinity> mvo: Did you see the update-notifier build failure on 4/6 arches?
[04:44] <mvo> infinity: no
[04:44] <infinity> mvo: Oddly enough, the 4 arches that don't know how to deal with i386 objects. :)
[04:45] <infinity> mvo: Looks like you shipped binary objects in your source...
[04:45] <mvo> infinity: *ick*
[04:45] <ogra> infinity, fix the arches then
[04:45] <mvo> infinity: have you considered qemu on the buildds for cases like this ;) ?
[04:47] <ogra> hehe
[04:47] <doko> Diziet: want to test me that?
[04:49] <Diziet> Do you have a relevant kind of HP ?
[04:49] <infinity> Riddell: kdebase is FTBFS on all arches again.
[04:49] <infinity> Riddell: http://librarian.launchpad.net/1928485/buildlog_ubuntu-dapper-i386.kdebase_4%3A3.5.2-0ubuntu4_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
[04:49] <Diziet> kamion: ping
[04:49] <doko> well, it's a newer one
[04:50] <Diziet> kamion: 19403 ?  Do you know anything ?
[04:50] <Diziet> `console-* prompts unnecessarily on upgrade'.
[04:50] <Diziet> I see it's assigned to me now but reading between the lines you might know something about it ?
[04:50] <Riddell> infinity: that'll be my fault, fixing..
[04:51] <Diziet> doko: Right, but one that does KRGB.  Apparently it's not working.  To test it I think you'll have to either peer at the output or arrange for one of your ink cartridges to be empty.
[04:51] <Diziet> And then print something with some black.
[04:51] <doko> Diziet: I'll check with the new hplip, which I'm currently preparing
[04:52] <Diziet> OK, good, thanks.
[04:52] <Diziet> It's possible that the KRGB support is disabled somewhere in gs-{esp,gpl}.  I didn't think so - certainly the patch is applied - but I could be wrong.  So if your ijs reports that gs doesn't have it, do let me know.
[04:53] <Kamion> Diziet: IIRC it was a debconf prompt from console-data on upgrade, probably from either hoary or mid-breezy to breezy
[04:53] <infinity> Kamion: Erm, did d-i recently change to try to include nfs-modules.udeb on hppa, or did linux-source recently change to drop that udeb?
[04:54] <infinity> Kamion: Or did soyuz explode and throw it away?  Pick one. :)
[04:54] <Diziet> Urr.  Do we have any reason to think it's still around somehow in Dapper ?  Fixing Breezy upgrades seems a bit late now ...
[04:54] <Kamion> Diziet: it started off at oem-config because oem-config depends indirectly on console-data
[04:54] <Diziet> Right.
[04:55] <Kamion> Diziet: console-data hasn't changed much, so the underlying cause is probably still around and might bite us - but it *could* easily be just a subtly buggered install, or a trashed debconf database, or something like that
[04:55] <Kamion> infinity: d-i recently changed to try to include it; why, is it not there?
[04:55] <infinity> Kamion: Appears to not be.  If that's your bug or BenC's, let me know, and I'll pass it on.
[04:56] <Kamion> infinity: I'll have a look, thanks
[04:56] <Diziet> kamion: Joy.  I think I'll ignore it and wait and see if anyone confirms it.  Thanks.  I'll also paste this conversation into the bug report for future reference :-).
[04:57] <Kamion> Diziet: yeah, sounds reasonable, I had been ignoring it largely because I hadn't been seeing large floods of reports about it
[04:58] <Kamion> could easily be that it only happens with certain keyboard configurations, too
[04:58] <Kamion> perhaps sivang can elaborate
[04:58] <Diziet> Right, thanks.
[04:59] <bddebian> Bullocks on imake/xmkmf
[04:59] <sivang> Kamion: where can I help?
[05:00] <Diziet> Your console-data bug report.  See the comment I've just added.  Malone 19403
[05:00] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 19403 in console-data "console-* prompts unnecessarily on upgrade?" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/19403
[05:01] <bddebian> fabbione: ping?
[05:04] <sivang> Kamion: should I attempt reinstall to see if this still happens? (I'm on dapper now)
[05:04] <Kamion> sivang: 'debconf-show console-data' might help
[05:05] <Kamion> sivang: I wouldn't trash your existing install just for this, though
[05:06] <sivang> Kamion: Well, I have a couple of dapper / breezy vmwares here I can snapshot and go back
[05:12] <sivang> Kamion: for my desktop here, this has lots of output
[05:14] <sivang> Kamion, Diziet : anything particular I should be searching in the output of debconf-show console-data ?
[05:15] <Diziet> If you know what question it asked then you can see whether it's listed.
[05:15] <sivang> Diziet: k, I'll check
[05:17] <Diziet> Definitely save the output of the debconf-show before and after.
[05:17] <Diziet> How many times has this happened to you ?  Just the once ?
[05:17] <sladen> http://www.paul.sladen.org/ubuntu/mactel/pic_0008.jpg with the new Apple legacy compatible firmware crack
[05:18] <sivang> Diziet: I can't recall, but at least 1 , the first time I installed after Colin made me curious about oem-config ...sorry
[05:18] <Kamion> sladen: hang on, you mean syslinux actually works?
[05:18] <siretart> does the dapper live cd has an option to say 'do not use swap partitions you might find on my hard drives'?
[05:19] <sladen> Kamion: yes;  just no efi, so no way to actually 'install' a boot loader.  And the vga emulation is particularly lacking
[05:20] <sladen> Kamion: bootloader comedy: http://www.paul.sladen.org/ubuntu/mactel/pic_0006.jpg
[05:20] <Kamion> ah yes
[05:21] <sivang> at least it offers me to "copy link address"
[05:25] <sivang> Diziet: hmm, I installed oem-config on the physical machine, diff between the two outputs is clean now. Doesn's show any differences.
[05:25] <sivang> (of before and after installation of oem-config)
[05:26] <Kamion> sivang: oem-config is *totally irrelevant* except that originally when you installed it it upgraded console-data too
[05:26] <Kamion> sivang: the console-data upgrade is what matters. Forget entirely about oem-config.
[05:27] <ogra> sladen, oh, you dyed your hair !
[05:28] <jsgotangco> eh?
[05:28] <sivang> Kamion: okay, I'm sorry :-/
[05:28] <jsgotangco> he removed it lol
[05:28] <Kamion> sivang: so you need to install hoary and upgrade to breezy, or install breezy and upgrade to dapper, or similar
[05:29] <sivang> Kamion: k.
[05:31] <pitti> mdz: bad news about cups :(
[05:32] <mdz> pitti: hmm?
[05:32] <pitti> mdz: I spend hours and hours on making 1.2rc1 work, but it seems that upstream did a very good job of making this incredibly hard
[05:33] <mdz> pitti: making it hard to make it wokr?
[05:33] <mdz> work?
[05:33] <pitti> mdz: yes; they removed RunAsUser, authentication does not work at all, web interface is broken and hangs, it doesn't work with hplip any more (for Riddell at leastt)
[05:33] <pitti> mdz: I was able to at least repair the USB/parallel backend
[05:34] <pitti> but in the current state it would require a serious amount of work
[05:34] <sivang> oh god
[05:34] <pitti> mdz: so I'm seriously considering rolling back to 1.1.23 ATM
[05:34] <mdz> pitti: urgh, let's forget it then
[05:34] <mdz> pitti: b1 is worse than 1.1.23?
[05:34] <pitti> mdz: not really, our svn snapshot works pretty well
[05:35] <pitti> apart from some bugs, which I need to fix, of course
[05:35] <pitti> but 1.2 breaks with KDE (see yesterday's bounty discussion)
[05:35] <mdz> pitti: then why roll back?
[05:35] <pitti> mdz: well, first because it's an svn snapshot and upstream also fixed lots of bugs in it
[05:36] <pitti> mdz: but mainly for that KDE thing
[05:36] <pitti> mdz: if we can get KDE fixed, then I can port the bug fixes to our snapshot as well, of course
[05:36] <sladen> ogra: that's mjg59
[05:36] <pitti> mdz: if we can live with a svn snapshot in a stable release
[05:36] <ogra> sladen, i know, was joking ... 
[05:36] <pitti> mdz: sorry for discovering that so late, I didn't expect this to fail so horribly
[05:38] <ogra> mdz, any objections against upgrading ltspfs/ltspfsd to the recent CVS ? sbalneav did a lot of fixes and told me it works flawless on ubuntu now
[05:38] <mdz> pitti: we'll see what kdeprint upstream says
[05:38] <mdz> ogra: none
[05:38] <ogra> yay :)
[05:38] <pitti> mdz: Riddell said that he would be keen to port it; yes, let's see
[05:39] <Riddell> mdz: they guy said he'd like to do it but says he'll have to think about how he can make time and find hardware to do it on (for installing kubuntu)
[05:39] <Riddell> mdz: I've told him a quick response would be appreciated
[05:44] <phaidros> hi. what packages are needed to recompile the ubuntu kernel? (i have linux-headers so far, but get make errors, make menuconfig is fine)
[05:45] <mjg59> phaidros: apt-get source linux-image-2.6.15-20-686 (or whatever)
[05:45] <mjg59> Is the easiest way
[05:48] <phaidros> make[2] : *** No rule to make target `init/main.o', needed by `init/built-in.o'.  Stop.
[05:48] <phaidros> mjg59, true, but i need to try a kernel without oss support, because that might be solving a line-in problem here ..
[05:49] <mjg59> phaidros: apt-get source linux-image-2.6.15-20-686
[05:49] <mjg59> The headers don't contain the kernel source
[05:55] <lamont> hrm.. /me wonders where evms gets it's configuration info...
[05:58] <ogra> hmm, why has malone no dapper+1 milestone ... :/
[05:59] <NAiL> How would I go about getting a kernel patch into ubuntu?
[06:00] <NAiL> (simple fix, blacklist c2c3 on my thinkpad r40e)
[06:08] <Diziet> Is it a bug that tar -x stops working properly if your umask includes 0200 or 0100, I wonder ?
[06:09] <Diziet> Unless you say -p, in which case it doesn't care even if the dirs in it all have mode 0 ...
[06:16] <mvo> mdz: update-notifier 0.41.11 was a really bad upload (a bug after moving from svn to bzr). 0.41.12 should be availalbe soon and is (hopefully) actually working :P
[06:17] <mdz> NAiL: #ubuntu-kernel or kernel-team@lists
[06:17] <mdz> NAiL: though surely it would be better to try to diagnose the problem and get it working than to blacklist it?
[06:34] <elmo> oh for god's sakes
[06:34] <elmo> I wish people NIH-syncing would at least be consistent
[06:36] <ogra> NIH ? national health institute ? 
[06:36] <tepsipakki> not invented here?
[06:36] <tepsipakki> oh, "knights who say NIH!"
[06:37] <KaiL_> huh? something in main depends on something in universe? How is that possible?
[06:38] <KaiL_> even worse, it's update-manager depending on "unattended-upgrades", a tool for fully automatic installation of security updates
[06:39] <ogra> its simply not promoted aet
[06:39] <ogra> *yet
[06:40] <KaiL_> not to mention, that this tool misses an obvious option to disable it
[06:40] <KaiL_> as some people might not to want that
[06:46] <mvo> KaiL_: easy, installing it dosn't mean that it will magically start :)
[06:46] <mvo> maybe I should add this to the package description ...
[06:46] <KaiL_> uhm, yes
[06:46] <KaiL_> and maybe to readme, how to start it then ;)
[06:47] <janimo> mvo, is gnome-app-install part of the 3rd party packages spec?
[06:47] <mvo> KaiL_: yeah :) the easiest way is to just click on it in the gnome-software-properties window
[06:47] <mvo> janimo: yes, why?
[06:47] <janimo> some people said they'd want it for xubuntu
[06:47] <mvo> *ick*
[06:47] <mvo> it uses gconf :P
[06:47] <ogra> lol
[06:47] <mvo> and gtkhml2
[06:47] <ogra> have fun ripping it apart :)
[06:48] <mvo> and ...
[06:48] <janimo> mvo, yes I saw that :)
[06:48] <mvo> maybe more
[06:48] <KaiL_> ah, cool!
[06:48] <janimo> so besides is and gdebi are there other apps in the 3rd party spec?
[06:48] <mvo> KaiL_: see /etc/cron.daily/apt for some more information how it can be enabled (it's a apt config option)
[06:49] <dholbach> mdke: i'll do an update now
[06:49] <mvo> janimo: yes, gdebi is lean, it only needs python-vte and python-apt (of course)
[06:49] <mvo> no gconf IIRC ;)
[06:49] <janimo> mvo, gdebi is already in xubuntu ;)
[06:49] <mvo> oh, nice
[06:49] <janimo> just want to see what is lost if g-a-i is not there?As I see for skype & all gdebi suffices 
[06:50] <dholbach> mdz: do you think we can seed gimp-print into ubuntu-desktop? it's built from the gutenprint source package (which is in main) and would give us printing capabilities for gimp (atm it's a recommends of gimp)
[06:51] <ogra> wasnt that in main in breezy ? 
[06:51] <dholbach> ogra: might be, but then gimpprint (source package) -> gutenprint (source package) and things changed
[06:51] <ogra> yep
[06:51] <mvo> janimo: currently it is mostly a nice way to install stuff, but when we get more 3rd party support it will (hopefully) become a plattform to install interessting stuff
[06:52] <mdke> dholbach, yippe
[06:52] <janimo> mvo, planned for dapper?
[06:52] <ogra> i think i remember we moved it to universe when gutenprint enetered
[06:52] <mvo> janimo: yes, updates can be shiped easily with new data files
[06:52] <janimo> ok, sounds very useful
[06:52] <dholbach> anyway... we keep getting bug reports about "gimp can't print" every now and then and having it in ubuntu-desktop might rememdy that
[06:54] <mdke> dholbach, hold on the -docs upload for a moment, if you can
[06:54] <dholbach> right
[06:55] <dholbach> ogra: yet another new dia :)
[06:55] <ogra> thanks
[06:55] <mdke> dholbach, ok, go again, sorry about that
[06:59] <NAiL> mdz: It'd be nice if there was a way to work around it. But the moment I load the processor module, the box hangs hard.
[07:02] <NAiL> I'm not the one able to figure out how to actually pic it. 
[07:03] <NAiL> s/pic/fix/
[07:21] <dholbach> mdke: done
[07:31] <highvoltage> it feels strange using a pre-release ubuntu with a gnome version number like 2.14.0
[07:31] <highvoltage> it should be something like 2.13.96 or 2.15.89 :)
[07:34] <ogra> but we'll release with 2.14.1 :)
[07:35] <highvoltage> which will also feel strange :) usually it's .0 :)
[07:36] <siretart> hm. am I supposed to do anything magic for making the rootfs autodetection work? when I leave out the root= kernel param, the boot procedure hangs at 'waiting for sysfs'...
[07:36] <bddebian> fabbione: ping?
[07:39] <Riddell> Kamion: components moved back into espresso's bzr?
[07:47] <ogra> should we update lsb ro have 6.06 instead 6.04 ? 
[07:50] <ogra> s/ro/to/
[07:54] <bddebian> Hey Riddell, do you know imake/xmkmf?
[07:55] <Riddell> bddebian: god no
[07:55] <bddebian> Riddell: OK, sorry :-)
[07:55] <Riddell> bddebian: what's the problem?
[07:56] <bddebian> I believe that ivtools is exporting the wrong path for X11 config stuff so it breaks mxv build
[07:56] <bddebian> But I can't get it to change XCONFDIR on build.
[07:57] <Riddell> just as I suspected, I've no idea how to help
[07:57] <bddebian> Riddell: NP, thanks anyway
[07:58] <_mvo_> ogra: lsb_relase needs to be changed, yeah
[07:58] <mdke> dholbach, thanks
[07:58] <ogra> yep
[07:59] <ogra> i just noticed its still at .04
[07:59] <Riddell> lab-release is already changed for me
[07:59] <Riddell> lsb-release rather
[07:59] <ogra> or the one with underscore :)
[07:59] <bddebian> Oh shit, because build extracts the tarball everytime so it's overwriting my changes :-(
[07:59] <ogra> ogra@edubuntu:/mnt/devel/packages/xorg-7.0.0$ lsb_release -r
[07:59] <ogra> Release:        6.04
[07:59] <Riddell> jr@pechin3:~>lsb_release -r
[07:59] <Riddell> Release:        6.06
[08:00] <ogra> ogra@edubuntu:/mnt/devel/packages/xorg-7.0.0$ sudo apt-get install lsb-release
[08:00] <ogra> Reading package lists... Done
[08:00] <ogra> Building dependency tree... Done
[08:00] <ogra> lsb-release is already the newest version.
[08:00] <ogra> :(
[08:00] <Riddell> try updating base-files
[08:00] <ogra> how did you manage that ? 
[08:00] <ogra> oh, yes :)
[08:12] <Riddell> Kamion: where is /usr/lib/espresso/localechooser/localechooser ?
[08:19] <carlos> seb128: hi, around?
[08:24] <dholbach> carlos: he went for dinner
[08:25] <carlos> dholbach: ok, thansk
[08:25] <dholbach> de rien
[08:25] <carlos> dholbach: perhaps you could answer my question
[08:25] <dholbach> i'll try
[08:25] <seb128> carlos: pong
[08:26] <carlos> dholbach:  do you know about any change with latest GNOME that produces a 'beep' without any explanation?
[08:26] <carlos> seb128: ^^^
[08:26] <seb128> GNOME?
[08:26] <seb128> since when?
[08:26] <dholbach> beep? when? a real sound or a pcspkr beep?
[08:26] <seb128> you might have the xchat-gnome sound plugin?
[08:26] <seb128> so when somebody highligt you, you get a sound
[08:26] <carlos> well, a standard GNOME installation. I have open Evolution, xchat-gnome and firefox
[08:26] <seb128> or beep on completion?
[08:27] <carlos> seb128: no, it's not that
[08:27] <lucas> hibernate and sleep don't work with my laptop (but hibernate worked with breezy). Against which package should I file a bug ?
[08:27] <carlos> seb128: I don't see any feedback about the 'beep'
[08:27] <lucas> I filed one a month ago against linux-2.6.15, but received no answer, so it's probably not the good package :-)
[08:27] <carlos> seb128: it started today
[08:27] <seb128> carlos: is that a speaker beep or a sound played?
[08:27] <carlos> speaker beep
[08:27] <seb128> probably not GNOME
[08:28] <seb128> we didn't do any real GNOME change for 1 week or so
[08:28] <carlos> seb128: hmm I have gaim setup to use 'console bell'
[08:28] <carlos> perhaps it's that...
[08:28] <seb128> probably
[08:28] <seb128> did you install gaim 2.0beta3? :)
[08:28] <carlos> but I don't see any status change there
[08:29] <Kinnison> ciau all
[08:29] <carlos> nomeata, 1.5.1cvs
[08:29] <carlos> grr
[08:29] <carlos> nomeata: sorry
[08:29] <seb128> k
[08:29] <carlos> nomeata, 1.5.1cvs
[08:29] <carlos> fuck
[08:29] <dholbach> :-)
[08:29] <seb128> so no reason it should have changed
[08:29] <carlos> I cannot type 'no'
[08:29] <seb128> don't use "," as separator
[08:29] <seb128> I keep ":" for that reason :p
[08:29] <dholbach> bye Kinnison
[08:30] <dholbach> does it beep for irc notifications?
[08:31] <carlos> seb128: ok, I think it's the join/leave notification from gaim
[08:31] <seb128> did you change that yourself?
[08:31] <seb128> because gaim package didn't change
[08:32] <carlos> seb128: seems like the new kernel version I got today fixed the system bell and that's why I was not earing it until today
[08:32] <seb128> k, that was my next supposition :)
[08:32] <seb128> (that something fixed your bell)
[08:32] <carlos> seb128: yes, I changed it so it doesn't locks the sound card and I'm able to use a broken VOIP client that needs the card completely free 
[08:33] <seb128> k
[08:33] <seb128> anyway diner time
[08:33] <seb128> bbl!
[08:33] <carlos> seb128: thanks for your input ;-)
[08:33] <seb128> you're welcome ;)
[08:33] <carlos> the beep was driving me crazy
[08:34] <seb128> better now so :)
[08:34] <seb128> see you:
[08:34] <carlos> seb128: bon apetite
[08:35] <_mvo_> dborg: fancy to do some notifcation-daemon hacking ;) ?
[08:40] <dborg> _mvo_: I hope to have a look at it and maybe try that prelight idea, but it would probably be a bad idea to rely on that :)
[08:41] <_mvo_> dborg: if you could do the pre-light, that would be great :) I banged my head against the wrong drawn bottom panel notitifactions today and it turns out that the whole calculartion of the arrow points is bogus
[08:41] <_mvo_> this thing needs a serious rewrite :)
[08:47] <dborg> _mvo_: I see :) I tried to find that bug before but the code scared me
[08:54] <_mvo_> dborg: but pre-light should be easy :)
[08:55] <dborg> yeah I hope so
[08:59] <kagou> BenC, i'v talked you this morning that you have (perhaps) closed Bug #31502
[08:59] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 31502 in linux-source-2.6.15 "Incorrect MAC address on card (00:00:00 in device portion)" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/31502
[09:00] <kagou> in fact in syslog i'v messages that say that he can not load prism firmaware (isl3886)
[09:01] <kagou> so wifi don't work at all. Do you have an idea ?!
[09:02] <_kagou> BenC: http://pastebin.com/642641
[09:05] <lamont> hrm... /me tests his theory
[09:07] <BenC> kagou: is that with 2.6.15-20?
[09:08] <BenC> The failure you show has to do with either missing firmware, or firmware upload error in general
[09:09] <kagou> BenC, yes since last upgrade (since 1H)
[09:09] <BenC> kagou: does the firmware exist?
[09:09] <kagou> linux-image and restricted was upgraded
[09:09] <kagou> yes
[09:10] <kagou> BenC,  NO !!!
[09:10] <kagou> ?!
[09:11] <kagou> request for a isl3886 but only 3890 is provided (as in 2.6.15-19)
[09:11] <kagou> i dont understand as it worked with 3890 before :/
[09:11] <kagou> may be alink ?!
[09:11] <BenC> kagou: can you find the firmware?
[09:11] <BenC> it may be that you are now using prism54_softmac
[09:12] <BenC> oops, no, it's islusb
[09:12] <kagou> BenC, may be can i rename isl3890 in isl3886 ?!
[09:13] <BenC> you can try, but I suspect that it really needs 3886
[09:13] <mjg59> BenC: Did you add softmac firmware?
[09:13] <BenC> mjg59: no, I didn't
[09:13] <mjg59> If not, it's probably the case that the driver has changed from being prism54 to prism54_softmac for that card
[09:14] <BenC> yeah, I'm looking at the prism54 firmware now
[09:14] <mjg59> kagou: do rmmod prism54_softmac; modprobe prism54 and things should work
[09:14] <mjg59> (as root)
[09:14] <kagou> yes i'm testing renaming firmware
[09:15] <BenC> kagou: http://daemonizer.de/prism54/prism54-fw/
[09:16] <mjg59> kagou: Renaming the firmware will not work
[09:16] <kagou> yes i see that
[09:16] <kagou> i'm going to test your solution
[09:18] <_kagou> mjg59: sudo rmmod prism54_softmac
[09:18] <_kagou> Password:
[09:18] <_kagou> ERROR: Module prism54_softmac does not exist in /proc/modules
[09:19] <mjg59> kagou: Oh, it might be called something else
[09:19] <kagou> _kagou, BenC kagou: http://daemonizer.de/prism54/prism54-fw/
[09:19] <mjg59> islsm_pci or something?
[09:19] <_kagou> mjg59: root@tchoupi:~# lsmod | grep isl
[09:19] <_kagou> islsm_pci              24712  0
[09:19] <_kagou> islsm_device           13000  1 islsm_pci
[09:19] <_kagou> islsm                  40716  2 islsm_pci,islsm_device
[09:19] <_kagou> ieee80211softmac       31104  1 islsm
[09:19] <_kagou> ieee80211              37832  2 islsm,ieee80211softmac
[09:19] <_kagou> crc_ccitt               2496  2 islsm,irda
[09:21] <mjg59> kagou: Right. rmmod islsm_pci and the modprobe prism54
[09:23] <_kagou> ok mjg59 it's do
[09:29] <bddebian> I assume one would have to be a main uploader to help the X Swat team?
[09:29] <kagou> mjg59, modprobe prism54 do nothing
[09:30] <Amaranth> bddebian: you could do bug triage and/or give debdiffs
[09:30] <bddebian> Amaranth: OK
[09:31] <Amaranth> which would help when/if you apply to join the ubuntu-dev group :)
[09:33] <bddebian> Amaranth: I don't think they would ever have me :-)
[09:34] <kagou> mjg59, argll a freeze on notebook :p  trying again to modprobe prism54 ... see in syslog that prism54 : request_firmware ('isl3890')
[09:34] <kagou> but eth2 : could not upload this firmwarez
[09:37] <kagou> mjg59, i rebooted on 2.6.15-19 and all is  working
[09:42] <kagou> can i block the loadind of module  islsm_pci  ?
[09:55] <_kagou> BenC mjg59 my card is showed as (with lspci) : 0000:00:0a.0 Network controller: Intersil Corporation Intersil ISL3890 [Prism GT/Prism Duette]  (rev 01)
[09:55] <_kagou> not isl3886
[09:58] <kagou> BenC, you show me http://daemonizer.de/prism54/prism54-fw/ but i can't find wich i must take
[10:22] <sns> Hi! I'd like to get in touch with someone from the Xen team.
[10:23] <poningru> ##xen
[10:24] <kagou> i'm tired. nothing work ... sniff :/ 
[10:24] <sns> thanks
[10:24] <mroth> mjg59: question re: bug 35174.  you want me to enable ACPI_SLEEP and then test *hibernate* with it enabled?
[10:24] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 35174 in acpi-support "ThinkPad X60 cannot resume from sleep/hibernate" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/35174
[10:24] <kagou> see you later
[10:24] <mjg59> mroth: Yes
[10:24] <mroth> mjg59: okay, just checking since it sounded strange.  will do so now.
[10:28] <kagou> mjg59, or BenC is it normal to have /lib/firmware/isl3886 ?! firmware are in /lib/firmware/'uname-r'/
[10:28] <mjg59> kagou: I'm afraid I don't understand the question
[10:29] <kagou> look here mjg59  :: _kagou BenC: http://pastebin.com/642641
[10:29] <kagou> we have "main: error loading '/lib/firmware/isl3886'"
[10:30] <kagou> firmware are not directly in /lib/firmware
[10:30] <mjg59> kagou: Do you have the isl3886 firmware?
[10:30] <kagou> no
[10:30] <kagou> my card need a isl3890
[10:30] <mjg59> Then whether that error is accurate or not is not your problem
[10:31] <mjg59> kagou: As I've already told you, the islsm_pci driver needs different firmware to the prism54 driver
[10:31] <kagou> mjg59, do i understand that now. my wifi card is no more supported ?!
[10:31] <Kamion> Riddell: run 'debian/rules update' if building from bzr
[10:32] <kagou> and i have to search for a isl3886
[10:32] <mjg59> kagou: No, that's not correct
[10:32] <kagou> i'v found 2 but none of them works ... so i'm very disapointed
[10:33] <ogra> mdz, i cant reproduce your comment on bug 33748, -xrm has no influence at all on any of my machines here 
[10:33] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 33748 in xscreensaver xscreensaver-data "[dapper]  images not grabbed from /usr/share/backgrounds" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/33748
[10:33] <kagou> mjg59, i think that i must open a bug on linux-source and we will try to close it 
[10:34] <mdz> ogra: you get background images?
[10:34] <mroth> mjg59: no such luck, same behavior, updated bug 35174 to reflect
[10:34] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 35174 in acpi-support "ThinkPad X60 cannot resume from sleep/hibernate" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/35174
[10:34] <mjg59> mroth: Ok, thanks
[10:35] <mjg59> mroth: But by the sounds of it, it now gets further than it did before?
[10:35] <mjg59> (New kernel against old kernel)
[10:35] <mroth> mjg59: hmm.. actually, slightly less far.  before it would show the status for the 'resuming from disk' status or whatever
[10:36] <mjg59> mroth: Yeah, that actually means it's getting further
[10:36] <mjg59> The brown lines appear when it's trying to change back to X
[10:36] <mjg59> (It all gets a bit confusing)
[10:36] <ogra> mdz, i get what i set in ~/.xscreensaver or in the system config in /etc/X11/XScerrnsaver
[10:36] <ogra> *XScreensaver
[10:36] <mdz> ogra: you see images from /usr/share/backgrounds or not?
[10:36] <mdz> I certainly don't
[10:36] <ogra> yes, i see them
[10:36] <ogra> and -xrm doesnt override that 
[10:37] <ogra> hmm
[10:37] <Kamion> Riddell: I *could* add the whole lot to bzr, but I don't really want to if I can avoid it; pushing the bzr archive takes long enough as it is
[10:37] <mdz> ogra: yes, -xrm doesn't seem to override  the config file
[10:38] <ogra> mdz, and both files (~/.xscreensaver and /etc/X11/app-defaults/XScreenSaver) have the /usr/share/backgrounds imagedir ? 
[10:38] <mdz> ogra: just updated the bug
[10:38] <ogra> ah
[10:38] <ogra> hmm
[10:39] <ogra> i dont want to wipe user configs :(
[10:40] <kagou> cya
[10:49] <dieman> sdier@riesling:~$ cat /proc/mdstat
[10:49] <dieman> Personalities : [raid5] 
[10:49] <dieman> md0 : active raid5 sdb1[0]  sde1[3]  sdd1[2]  sdc1[1] 
[10:49] <dieman>       430115904 blocks level 5, 64k chunk, algorithm 2 [4/4]  [UUUU] 
[10:49] <dieman>       [[10:49] <dieman> unused devices: <none>
[10:49] <dieman> theres a cute bug in the server kernel
[10:49] <dieman> (note the impossibl speed)
[10:50] <dieman> impossible
[10:55] <Kamion> elmo: have you had a chance to look at my mail about archive issues for some breezy-security uploads?
[10:56] <elmo> Kamion: well I saw kinnison replied, so I was hoping it had been dealt with ;-)
[10:56] <Kamion> that was just on the soyuz side, one issue out of four ;)
[10:57] <elmo> doh
[10:57] <ogra> wheee !!!! 
[10:57] <ogra> looks like the "screensaver ignores user input" bug is fixed !!
[10:57] <dieman> ogra: yay!
[10:58] <ogra> and its a silly one line patch ...
[10:58] <ogra> tsk 
[11:00] <Kamion> Mithrandir: any progress on the timezone->country->recalculate-locale work you were doing for espresso?
[11:00] <Kamion> or were going to do, at any rate
[11:01] <Kamion> Kinnison: any progress on the location page UI work that IIRC you were going to look at?
[11:10] <tsdgeos> jordi: ping
[11:12] <tsdgeos> jordi: check mail when you can
[11:54] <_TomB> what is the easiest way to remake the initrd.gz after I have modified the contents?
[12:01] <TheMuso> _TomB: Is this on the install CD or the live CD?
[12:02] <_TomB> LiveCD
[12:02] <jordi> Burgwork: ping