[01:36] <robotgeek> hey fellow docs
[01:36] <LaserJock> hi robotgeek 
[01:37] <robotgeek> we need a nicer name :)
[02:02] <crimsun> "authors" sounds nice
[03:25] <robotgeek> LaserJock: nice vim mapping for aspell, i added some more to it. 
[03:27] <LaserJock> cool
[03:28] <robotgeek> i now load different files based on filetype, in hopes of modularizing and speeding up my vim
[04:00] <robotgeek> howdy Burgundavia 
[04:01] <LaserJock> robotgeek: do you have a URL for your updated .vimrc?
[04:01] <Burgundavia> salut rob
[04:01] <Burgundavia> robotgeek: 
[04:02] <robotgeek> LaserJock: okay, let me post
[04:02] <Madpilot> hi all
[04:04] <Burgundavia> salut Madpilot
[04:04] <Burgundavia> Madpilot: did you get that issue with clive's machien sorted?
[04:04] <Madpilot> Burgundavia, sorting it right now, actually
[04:05] <robotgeek> LaserJock: http://robotgeek.org/vimrc.txt
[04:13] <Burgundavia> robotgeek: ahh, do you kinow anything about this and can you help fix it? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KdeDiskArchiver
[04:15] <robotgeek> Burgundavia: nope, what langauge is this in :P
[04:16] <robotgeek> Burgundavia: seems to be paste from http://kdar.sourceforge.net/kdar-html-docs/index.html
[04:17] <Burgundavia> robotgeek: oh bugger. I will wipe it
[04:57] <LaserJock> yeah, I got both a personal mediawiki and personal moin setup on my iMac today
[04:57] <Burgundavia> hmm
[04:57] <Burgundavia> what to do
[04:57] <Burgundavia> I am proofing a chapter for the book, but it mentions using Xchat to connect to #ubuntu
[04:57] <Burgundavia> however, xchat is no longer shipped
[04:58] <robotgeek> LaserJock: i just use the desktop moin, it was painless to get working
[04:58] <LaserJock> yeah, I have that at home on my Windows machine
[04:59] <LaserJock> and there is MoinX for OSX that is a breeze too
[04:59] <LaserJock> but mediawiki was a beast
[04:59] <LaserJock> I finally got it going well using MAMP www.mamp.info
[05:11] <LaserJock> hmm, I'm personally not fond of "Installing from a single package file" as a section title
[05:12] <Burgundavia> nor am I
[05:29] <Madpilot> Burgundavia, XChat has been demoted to Universe for Dapper, but it's still around (thankfully, given how XChat-Gnome bites...)
[05:30] <robotgeek> LaserJock: i call the section "Manual Installation"
[05:34] <LaserJock> Madpilot: I would hope not. Lots of people use it. More than xchat-gnome for sure
[05:35] <Madpilot> I noticed that Matt put a mention of GAIM into the UDG's 'How to get help' section
[05:36] <LaserJock> uggh, why don't we just tell them to use irssi, that's in main ;-)
[05:36] <robotgeek> while we are at it, tell then to use screen also
[05:36] <LaserJock> for sure
[05:37] <crimsun> (why is it that all the gui irc clients I've tried absolutely choke when a user joins more than, say, 12 channels?)
[05:38] <LaserJock> hmm, max I've ever done is 10 (gui or irssi)
[05:38] <Madpilot> I've been on about 15 at once in XChat, it handled it OK. So did Opera's built-in IRC client
[05:39] <crimsun> I have a row of illegible tabs of ellipses in konversation
[05:39] <robotgeek> heh
[05:39] <LaserJock> robotgeek: your aspell mapping is specific to sgml, what setting that according to file type?
[05:40] <LaserJock> s/what/what about/
[05:40] <robotgeek> LaserJock: since most of the documents i type which need spellchecking are xml, i use that
[05:40] <LaserJock> gosh, I need to proofread my IRC today
[05:40] <robotgeek> LaserJock: it is in ~/.vim/xml.vim which gets loaded only if filetype is xml
[05:42] <LaserJock> robotgeek: what is: Contents of .vim/python.vim
[05:42] <LaserJock> is that supposed to be a comment?
[05:42] <robotgeek> LaserJock: well, the lines below that go to ~/.vim/python.vim (i catted it for you)
[05:43] <LaserJock> ahhh, I see
[05:43] <robotgeek> saves me the trouble of putting python specific stuff in my vimrc :)
[05:45] <Burgundavia> Madpilot: bloody hell
[05:46] <Madpilot> Burgundavia, hmm?
[05:46] <Burgundavia> Madpilot: the whole irc thing
[05:47] <Madpilot> XChat vs XChat-Gnome vs Gaim (which is supposed to have fairly bad IRC implementation)
[05:48] <Madpilot> and both XChat & XChat-Gnome suck, to varying degrees and for different reasons :P
[05:48] <LaserJock> you guys watching -devel?
[05:49] <Burgundavia> yes
[05:49] <Madpilot> nope
[05:49] <Madpilot> what's up on -devel?
[05:49] <crimsun> I affirm that Gaim's irc implementation blows even worse than Konversation's
[05:50] <LaserJock> a guy wrote a program to make Gaim open up irc:// urls
[05:50] <Madpilot> crimsun, heh - that leaves Ubuntu without a sane IRC app... (XChat being, IMO, the best of the lot, but far from ideal...)
[05:55] <Burgundavia> crimsun: it also takes about 15 steps to get into #ubuntu
[06:10] <Madpilot> XChat launches into #ubuntu by default - -Gnome just sits there :P
[06:12] <Burgundavia> yep
[06:28] <Madpilot> hi robitaille 
[06:33] <robitaille> hi Madpilot 
[06:37] <Madpilot> On Dapper, flashplugin-nonfree has replaced  flashplayer-mozilla, right?
[06:38] <Kamping_Kaiser> ping? i just got an error on cron regarding one of the docs, but when i open it i don't see an error
[06:38] <Kamping_Kaiser> who should i ask about it?
[06:39] <robotgeek> Kamping_Kaiser: care to explain?
[06:39] <robotgeek> Madpilot: yup. 
[06:39] <Madpilot> robotgeek, OK, I'll update UDG. Thanks
[06:40] <Kamping_Kaiser> scrollkeeper couldnt find an ent file which is linked to in ///usr/share/Gnome/help/about-ubuntu/C/about-ubuntu.xml . i;m wondering who to check with about it. 
[06:40] <robotgeek> i think i saw a bug report today
[06:41] <Kamping_Kaiser> long as i'm not alone
[06:41] <robotgeek> Kamping_Kaiser: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-docs/+bug/38062 looks familiar?
[06:43] <Kamping_Kaiser> yes, but mines a lot less scary :)
[06:43] <Madpilot> Burgundavia, in Ubuntu Dapper, is the Configuration Editor available by default in menus? (In Breezy it's Apps->System Tools->Config. Editor
[06:46] <Burgundavia> Madpilot: nope
[06:46] <Burgundavia> it is hidden
[06:46] <Burgundavia> alt-f2 gconf-editor
[06:46] <Madpilot> installed but not in the menu?
[06:46] <Madpilot> yeah, I'll recommend Alt-F2 then in UDG
[06:47] <Burgundavia> yep
[08:29] <mdke> morning
[08:29] <Madpilot> hi mdke 
[08:30] <mdke> Madpilot, still waiting on flashplayer-mozilla, btw
[08:30] <mdke> I'll poke infinity
[08:34] <bhuvan> cd
[08:36] <mdke> :)
[08:36] <mdke> bhuvan, did you see Rocco's second patch for the apache section?
[08:37] <bhuvan> mdke, yes; but i guess there was no attachment ?
[08:37] <mdke> oh
[08:38] <bhuvan> i expect him to send with attachment or atleast i should intimate him
[08:38] <mdke> bhuvan, we should reply, telling him so :)
[08:39] <bhuvan> ok, i'll
[08:39] <mdke> he must have forgotten it
[08:44] <mdke> bhuvan, thanks
[08:45] <mdke> ok, so are we go on the yelp frontpage? I like andreas' improvements to the wording
[08:46] <bhuvan> mdke, np
[08:47] <mdke> Madpilot, that flash thing, flashplayer-mozilla should be coming back... but if we stay with the other package, I think we will have to include a couple of extra steps to get it working, because that's just a downloader package
[09:08] <Madpilot> mdke, ah, OK - I just use Macromedia's installer, myself...
[09:17] <mdke> Madpilot, that's not a bad idea either :)
[09:17] <Madpilot> it works with all browsers (not just FF) and it doesn't change based on the vagarities of open-source politics :P
[09:19] <mdke> yes, i did it that way the other day, it works fine
[10:04] <rob> woah.. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ThirdPartyPackages
[10:04] <rob> click 'n' run eat your heart out
[10:25] <mdke> rob, that spec has been implemented
[10:27] <mdke> hasn't seemed to stop people commenting though
[10:43] <mdke> rob, i've posted about your lulu idea
[11:38] <mdke> can someone tell me if gsfonts-x11 is installed by default in dapper?
[11:41] <bhuvan> mdke, i guess not
[11:41] <bhuvan> i use dapper (upgraded from breezy), it does not contain gsfonts-x11
[11:46] <mdke> bhuvan, thanks
[11:46] <bhuvan> mdke, np
[11:46] <bhuvan> mdke, btw, yesterday i took a session on "contributing to Ubuntu" in my office
[11:46] <bhuvan> around 30 of my collegues attended the session. overall it went well
[11:47] <mdke> bhuvan, cool!!!
[11:47] <mdke> nice one
[11:47] <bhuvan> i've scheduled it on apr 09, 3pm-3:30pm IST at barcamp
[11:49] <mdke> bhuvan, is the server guide looking ok to be frozen in the next couple of days?
[11:50] <bhuvan> mdke, imo, it's ok. except 1 or 2 sections are incomplete
[11:50] <mdke> the status report is still showing a lot of "review" tags
[11:51] <mdke> probably, trappist has reviewed lots of those already, not sure
[11:51] <bhuvan> mdke, yes; he did
[11:51] <bhuvan> i guess only nntp is incomplete
[11:52] <mdke> do you have time to do a quick update of the tags, so we can see what is going on?
[11:53] <bhuvan> sue
[11:53] <bhuvan> s/sue/sure
[11:53] <bhuvan> i'll update before eod today
[11:53] <mdke> yay
[11:56] <mdke> thanks a lot dude
[11:57] <bhuvan> np
[12:28] <mdke> gotta love henrik
[12:28] <mdke> that's a much better logout dialogue
[12:28] <mdke> http://people.ubuntu.com/~henrik/images/collapsing-logout.png
[02:46] <mdke> nearly there, only DVDs to be resolved now, I think
[02:49] <jjesse> cheer
[04:29] <mdke> trappist, yes, not currently used, it isn't in serverguide.xml
[04:31] <mdke> shame tho
[04:32] <trappist> yeah
[04:33] <trappist> if I'd noticed earlier maybe I coulda done something, but we're coming up on that string freeze and I lost my final round of apache2 changes and hafta do it again :/
[04:33] <mdke> it's a bit late to revive it, probably
[04:33] <mdke> yeah, bummer about that
[05:10] <trappist> what file contains the "conventions" section at the top of each manual?
[05:11] <mdke> common/C/preface.xml, except in the desktop guide
[05:11] <trappist> thanks
[05:17] <trappist> you know what would be handy here?  a bot that lives on docteam.ubuntu.com and spouts to the channel on events like svn commits.
[05:17] <mdke> yeah
[05:25] <robotgeek> howz it going?
[05:26] <highvoltage> fantabulous
[05:26] <highvoltage> how are you, robotgeek 
[05:26] <robotgeek> highvoltage: just woke up :)
[05:26] <highvoltage> morning person?
[05:27] <robotgeek> highvoltage: no, it's 11:30 am
[05:29] <highvoltage> i would also be in a good mood if i only got up at 11:30 in the mornings :)
[05:29] <trappist> no kidding
[05:29] <robotgeek> i did go to bed only at 4:00 am
[05:29] <trappist> you know what else would be handy?  a trac site for the svn repo
[05:29] <mdke> trac?
[05:30] <trappist> see one of mine: http://ipkungfu.ufsoft.org/
[05:33] <mdke> well you can browse the repo online, and file bugs and so on, just not all in the same place, I guess
[05:34] <trappist> I think it'd be nice for us to have our own place to track progress, assign tickets, view diffs, etc.  I've used trac at my last two jobs and I find it pretty indispensible.
[05:35] <mdke> another ticket system might clash with malone, tho
[05:35] <mdke> but viewing diffs might be helpful i suppose, although the mailing list is good for that
[05:37] <trappist> malone is great for bugs submitted by users, to make us aware of them.  a trac site would be for internal use, to keep us from stepping on each other's toes, etc., and it's a little more specialized than malone for this.  it'd serve a separate purpose.
[05:37] <mdke> could be, maybe I just can't visualise it
[05:37] <mdke> nice work on apache2, trappist :)
[05:38] <trappist> thanks
[05:39] <trappist> mdke: I felt pretty much the same way when my last boss announced we'd be using trac.  after trying half a dozen other ticket systems, progress trackers, repo frontends, etc., it was like, whatever.  but trac is pretty great.
[05:40] <trappist> if only they'd rewrite it in ruby so I could hack on it more :)
[05:41] <mdke> ok, so the server guide looks mainly done, except "Firewall Configuration", is that pretty raw?
[05:42] <trappist> no, I did a lot of work on that.  possibly I didn't update the status.
[05:42] <mdke> ok rock
[05:43] <robotgeek> mdke: what do i do with sections that are unfinished
[05:43] <mdke> robotgeek, i think it depends on what they are. If they'll be finished in a day or two, that'll be ok
[05:43] <robotgeek> okay
[05:44] <mdke> otherwise, and if they're not essential, cut em out, I suppose
[05:44] <robotgeek> nice job on single line introduction to chapters
[05:44] <mdke> thanks
[05:45] <robotgeek> back after some coffee 
[05:47] <trappist> just looked at the firewall section.  it might want to be a little more complete for dapper+1 but its status should be review.
[05:48] <trappist> aw crap.  cupsys has been massively updated and the printing section of the serverguide might need some work to correspond with that.  I'll check it out.
[05:53] <trappist> yep it does.
[06:03] <robotgeek> mdke: in UDG, About This Guide doesn't talk about the Getting Started chapter, is this intentional?
[06:04] <mdke> robotgeek, no
[06:05] <mdke> thanks :)
[06:05] <robotgeek> np
[06:11] <robotgeek> mdke: how did you get the sect1 to go on a different page? just by adding a para before sect1 or xsl foo?
[06:13] <mdke> magic in the xsl
[06:13] <mdke> shall I do it for kubuntu too?
[06:13] <robotgeek> mdke: please :)
[06:14] <mdke> ok
[06:15] <mdke> done
[06:15] <robotgeek> thanks!
[06:16] <WaterSevenUb> mdke, typo in about-ubuntu.xml:64(para) gves=gives
[06:16] <robotgeek> one of these days, i will sit down and learn xsl
[06:16] <mdke> robotgeek, me too
[06:17] <mdke> WaterSevenUb, thanks
[06:17] <mdke> WaterSevenUb, you know you shouldn't be translating that though :)
[06:18] <WaterSevenUb> mdke, yeah :) just looking around ;) in any case it will preserve some work, I guess..
[06:19] <mdke> yep, nice catch on that typo
[06:20] <WaterSevenUb> mdke, hey, the doc string freeze is tomorrow :-)
[06:20] <WaterSevenUb> ?
[06:21] <mdke> yes
[06:21] <robotgeek> WaterSevenUb: 7 hours, 40 minutes away
[06:21] <WaterSevenUb> aaah... good good :) eheh. I was scared with your warning but in 7 hours you can't stop me ;-)
[06:22] <mdke> how do you know the pot file is up to date?
[06:23] <WaterSevenUb> I was just looking around... yeah... it might not be up to date at all :) 
[06:24] <mdke> that one is ok
[06:24] <mdke> the serverguide one is old tho
[06:27] <WaterSevenUb> yeah... and it seems some translators in our team have been actively translating them. Hopefully some work will be preserved.
[06:28] <WaterSevenUb> by the way, in the end you decided to include translated docs in ubuntu.com? I just noticed web-index I guess it is for that...
[06:29] <mdke> i think so. i haven't had many replies, tbh
[06:29] <WaterSevenUb> I agree with the idea. It does not stop local teams from including guides in their own websites.
[06:29] <mdke> good
[06:37] <robotgeek> mdke: in http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/desktopguide/C/add-applications-introduction.html , the word section should be replaced by chapter maybe?
[06:39] <mdke> robotgeek, ok
[06:40] <mdke> done, thanks
[07:11] <robotgeek> mdke: http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/desktopguide/C/hardware.html#other-hardware is there supposed to be a listing somewhere?
[07:13] <robotgeek> nvm, my bad
[07:13] <jjesse> robotgeek: how are things going today?
[07:14] <robotgeek> jjesse: doing, good. proof reading, and making slight changes
[07:14] <jjesse> robotgeek: good to hear
[07:14] <robotgeek> jjesse: how are things on your end?
[07:15] <jjesse> robotgeek: really good, finishing some suggestions riddell made for the chapter and hopefully will update the release notes and about kubuntu (if it needs it tonight)
[07:15] <robotgeek> jjesse: for the book chapter?
[07:16] <jjesse> riddells suggestion were for the book
[07:21] <robotgeek> jjesse: when can you finish off the stuff for KDG? (handhelds, etc)
[07:22] <jjesse> as soon as possible
[07:22] <robotgeek> jjesse: sorry to be so pushy :)
[07:22] <jjesse> robotgeek: you aren't it's keeping me busy :)
[07:50] <trappist> is there a "what really needs to get done before the freeze" list?  for example, is proofreading ok post-freeze and a waste of precious time now?
[07:52] <robotgeek> trappist: well, i suppose the things with "help" in them :)
[08:00] <frank_> I can do some proofreading for the kubuntu desktop guide. What part should I do?
[08:01] <robotgeek> frank_: svn up, and go through config system
[08:02] <frank_> robotgeek: ok. do you want me to try the steps or just check the spelling?
[08:03] <robotgeek> frank_: well, i do think they are correct, but see if you know if something is wrong. 
[08:03] <LaserJock> ;-)
[08:03] <frank_> robotgeek: ok. 
[08:04] <LaserJock> I'm working through your .vimrc file robotgeek 
[08:04] <robotgeek> LaserJock: cool :)
[08:05] <LaserJock> mdke: around?
[08:06] <LaserJock> robotgeek: I like the idea of modularizing it a bit more
[08:07] <robotgeek> LaserJock: saw it in someone's muttrc
[08:08] <LaserJock> that's the other rc I need to work on
[08:08] <robotgeek> i need to setup imap first
[08:08] <trappist> my muttrc is extremely modularized
[08:08] <robotgeek> i think mine too :)
[08:09] <trappist> [trappist@temple trappist] $ ls .mutt
[08:09] <trappist> adfooters  aliases  bindings  cavok  certificates  colors  folderhooks  gpg.rc  home  imappass  lists  macros  mailbox  mailboxes  me.cavok  mlfooters  muttrc  muttrc.t-prot  poppass  savehooks  scptmp  scripts  settings  sidebar  signature
[08:11] <trappist> you may rise.
[08:12] <LaserJock> I'm still trying to figure out how to *use* mutt to any extent. I've used pine for a long time
[08:12] <robotgeek> i use kmail now, very nice
[08:12] <robotgeek> beats the missing attachment problem
[08:13] <trappist> I switched back to kmail after using mutt for a coupla years.  I'll probably stick with kmail this time.
[08:14] <trappist> I think using mutt is a lot like using vim - there's a lot of learning to be done, but it's pretty darn nice once you figure it out
[08:15] <robotgeek> :)
[08:16] <frank_> robotgeek: geek in Preventing the Ctrl-Alt-Backspace shortcut keys from restarting X, the example points to nothing
[08:17] <robotgeek> frank_: just corrected the links
[08:17] <robotgeek> let me doublecheck
[08:17] <LaserJock> pine works very well for me for a CLI mail reader except it's GPG capabilities are not that great
[08:17] <LaserJock> s/it's/its/, right trappist?
[08:18] <trappist> yes
[08:18] <trappist> gpg in mutt works wonderfully
[08:19] <trappist> better than kmail, in that it'll remember your passphrase for a configurable amount of time, though that's a bit of a security issue
[08:19] <robotgeek> frank_: i corrected the makefile in the last commit, (about 15 minutes ago) so svn up and build it again :)
[08:22] <frank_> robotgeek: ok. can I continue doing changes to the congig-system I already opened?
[08:24] <robotgeek> frank_: you might have to reintegrate the patch or send it to me, i will do it
[08:29] <frank_> robotgeek: svn put my changes and yours together. it builds.  so I guess it looks alright. I'm very new to svn!
[08:30] <robotgeek> frank_: cool, what changes did you make?
[08:30] <frank_> robotgeek: just punctuation for now
[08:31] <frank_> robotgeek: Actuallly I lost my changes. only 2 so I can do it again.
[08:33] <robotgeek> frank_: cool, i'll wait before touching that chapter again
[08:33] <frank_> actually I think it DID work. I'm just confused I think....
[08:33] <robotgeek> frank_: svn status, svn diff :)
[08:34] <frank_> robotgeek: yeah. it looks good ;)
[08:37] <trappist> looks like we need to entity-ize gcc and glibc versions.  wouldn't hurt to do kernel versions either.
[08:37] <trappist> GCC 4.0.1 and glibc 2.3.5 are out of date
[08:59] <frank_> Install the rar package from the <emphasis>Multiverse</emphasis> repository.   tag for rar ?
[09:00] <robotgeek> frank_: which reminds me, i need to add unrar-nonfree somewhere too :)
[09:00] <robotgeek> frank_: hmm, lemme see what tag we use for package names
 
[09:01] <robotgeek> frank_: okay, go ahead
[09:01] <frank_> that's what qtparted uses
[09:05] <mdke> Burgwork, someone mailed me to complain that you deleted https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KdeDiskArchiver They say they spent 5 hours on it. It seems not to be recoverable.
[09:05] <mdke> LaserJock, pong
[09:06] <Burgwork> mdke, I moved the homepage
[09:06] <Burgwork> the text was a straight copy from another source
[09:07] <mdke> Burgwork, KdeDiskArchiver I don't think was a homepage, from how he described it. Does it exist elsewhere?
[09:07] <mdke> he says he was doing a translation
[09:08] <LaserJock> mdke: I was just going to mention that "Manuals for the programs found in the Applications menu" could be a bit misleading
[09:08] <Burgwork> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Virusbuster?action=diff&rev2=41&rev1=39
[09:08] <Burgwork> mdke, please ask him not to do it on the wiki and instead contact upstream
[09:09] <LaserJock> mdke: especially with https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MenusRevisited
[09:09] <mdke> Burgwork, isn't it documentation?
[09:09] <Burgwork> mdke, it is copied from elsewhere and thus cannot be PD
[09:09] <mdke> Burgwork, so has he lost his work or not, I don't understand?
[09:09] <Burgwork> no, it is there
[09:10] <Burgwork> he had a wierd amalgam of his homepage and this translation work
[09:10] <Burgwork> do I nuke the translated non-PD stuff and moved the page
[09:11] <mdke> without asking first?
[09:11] <mdke> that's very harsh
[09:11] <Burgwork> I should have left a note, for which I realize is now a mistake
[09:11] <mdke> anyway, glad it's still there somewhere
[09:11] <mdke> i'll mail him
[09:11] <Burgwork> it is a translation of upstreams manually, so it better done with them
[09:13] <mdke> right, but for a newcomer to a wiki it's disconcerting to stay up til 3am and then have your work nuked
[09:13] <mdke> especially since the public domain thing hasn't yet been implemented
[09:13] <frank_> sudo crontab -e   this uses vi. what would be the kde equivalent?  kdesu kate /etc/?   This is for the Run a system command automatically at Startup  section
[09:14] <mdke> frank_, it uses the system default editor. The kde equivalent is the same
[09:15] <frank_> yeah but this is the first time I see the kubuntu desktop guide assume you know vi. I think that should be avoided
[09:15] <Burgwork> why the heck do I get useless emails about the wiki, but when someone wants to complain, they don't email me
[09:16] <mdke> because you're not the coordinator of the italian translation project
[09:16] <Burgwork> ah
[09:16] <mdke> frank_, it's a bug in Ubuntu that it uses vi as the default editor
[09:17] <robotgeek> heh, using nano is tough for me now!
[09:17] <trappist> we need a way to be alerted to version upgrades for stuff like python and glibc
[09:18] <trappist> for release notes
[09:19] <LaserJock> trappist: those don't change all that often
[09:19] <LaserJock> trappist: how specific should we be?
[09:20] <trappist> looks like we're using the upstream version number
[09:20] <trappist> I'm sure it doesn't change that often, but python, gcc and glibc have all changed since the release notes were written
[09:21] <frank_> robotgeek: Skip boot-up services temporarily   will you add something here? 
[09:22] <LaserJock> trappist: it depends on whether you report the major version or complete version. For instance we use Python 2.4, that hasn't changed
[09:23] <trappist> the release notes said 2.4.2
[09:25] <LaserJock> right, but maybe the release note should have 2.4 although probably the fuller version gives us a newer look ;-)
[09:25] <LaserJock> anyway, it wouldn't be hard to whip up a script that checks for the current versions
[09:32] <robotgeek> frank_: no, do you have anything to add?
[09:32] <robotgeek> i also want Makefiles which don't build the whole thing again :)
[09:33] <frank_> robotgeek: I don't even know when that Ctrl-C should be used
[09:34] <robotgeek> frank_: i am not sure if you can use it, we'll nuke the section
[09:34] <frank_> robotgeek: ok
[09:34] <mdke> i've nuked that in DG
[09:34] <mdke> it works, but is unnecessary
[09:34] <frank_> robotgeek: I'll delete it
[09:34] <robotgeek> frank_: cool
[09:38] <Burgwork> mdke, do you think you will be able to make it to the next ubuntu development meeting?
[09:38] <mdke> Burgwork, don't know.
[09:38] <Burgwork> mdke, would be nice if we could have more than one doc person
[09:39] <mdke> I will try and make a weekend, maybe
[09:39] <mdke> who else is going?
[09:39] <Burgwork> I should be able to find the money to fund myself and should be able to take the time off work
[09:41] <mdke> cool
[09:42] <Burgwork> put as you know, sometimes my ideas clash with those of the doc team, so it is good to get a balanced perspective :)
[09:42] <LaserJock> I'd like to go (both as a doc person and a MOTU) but I'm not sure if I have money for it
[09:43] <lloydinho> hey, do you guys know when the next development meeting is going to take place (and where?)
[09:43] <Burgwork> where is likely germany, time is now up in the air
[09:43] <frank_> robotgeek: 3D ATI Video Card Driver section:  I have no idea if that works or not
[09:43] <Burgwork> I expect third or fourth week of june
[09:44] <lloydinho> thanks. I expect I'll be going, then.
[09:44] <mdke> where are you from lloydinho?
[09:44] <lloydinho> Denmark..
[09:44] <robotgeek> frank_: okay, no problem. 
[09:44] <mdke> cool
[09:45] <lloydinho> oh, and to whoever finished up the packaging section in the DG: it looks really swell now.
[09:46] <mdke> thanks, you, me and Brian did it :)
[09:46] <lloydinho> :)
[09:47] <mdke> LaserJock, I think the slight confusion is worth it. It's more confusing to have "Manuals for installed applications", because non graphical apps aren't in there
[09:48] <lloydinho> If nobody else's reviewing "Burning CDs" section of the DG, I'll have a look at that..
[09:48] <mdke> lloydinho, go for it. we also need to take a look at the DVD section
[09:48] <mdke> 1. are extra codecs needed?
[09:48] <mdke> 2. should we recommend a better dvd player?
[09:48] <LaserJock> I see your point for sure, I can just see bug reports "XYZ  is in the Applications help but not in the Applications menu"
[09:49] <mdke> the answer to 2 is almost certainly yes
[09:49] <frank_> robotgeek: Winmodems: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SettingUpModems  should be the primary resource I think. 
[09:49] <lloydinho> mdke: I'll review that, as well.
[09:49] <mdke> LaserJock, yeah. it's a choice between 2 not perfect results. But those categories are so totally boned anyway, I don't think it's our fault
[09:49] <LaserJock> lol
[09:50] <LaserJock> I think at least having some description helps
[09:50] <LaserJock> even an imperfect one ;-)
[09:50] <mdke> hmm
[09:50] <mdke> tricky
[09:51] <robotgeek> frank_: it might be a good idea to just remove the previous sentence, i think
[09:52] <frank_> robotgeek: ok
[09:55] <mdke> LaserJock, any other ideas for the phrasing?
[09:56] <Burgwork> mdke, gxine works with the instructions given
[09:56] <Burgwork> mdke, it is not the prettiest player, but it gets the job done
[09:56] <mdke> Burgwork, great. no extra codecs or anything?
[09:56] <Burgwork> just what is already there
[09:56] <Burgwork> menus work
[09:56] <mdke> is gxine different from xine-ui?
[09:56] <Burgwork> no idea, I think so
[09:57] <Burgwork> gxine is a gtk ui for xine
[09:57] <mdke> ah ok
[09:57] <mdke> i use xine-ui for dvds here on breezy, and it's relatively good looking
[09:57] <mdke> it has a menu like a real dvd player
[09:58] <Burgwork> ick
[09:58] <Burgwork> menu like real dvd player is not actually useful
[09:58] <mdke> well, I like it
[10:01] <LaserJock> "Shipped Manuals", "Application Manuals", "Installed Manuals" ? I'm not sure
[10:01] <LaserJock> but I found several CLI application manuals in there
[10:01] <mdke> oh christ
[10:01] <mdke> "Lucky Dip"
[10:02] <LaserJock> sorry :/
[10:02] <LaserJock> :-)
[10:02] <mdke> not your fault, it's upstream crap
[10:03] <mdke> Manuals for Installed Applications, I think
[10:03] <mdke> any other ideas?
[10:03] <LaserJock> perhaps, although it somewhat bothers me that that might imply that all installed apps have manuals there :s
[10:04] <mdke> yes
[10:04] <LaserJock> but I think it might  be the best we can do until those categories are cleaned up
[10:04] <mdke> I can't think of anything better
[10:04] <LaserJock> me neither at the moment
[10:22] <robotgeek> frank_: ping
[10:23] <frank_> robotgeek: I just finished
[10:23] <robotgeek> frank_: awesome :)
[10:23] <robotgeek> frank_: did not want to do anything without your patch :)
[10:24] <frank_> robotgeek: what do you want me to do with the patch?
[10:24] <robotgeek> frank_: mail it to me? / list
[10:24] <frank_> I can mail to you
[10:25] <frank_> venkatvc@ubuntu.com  right?
[10:26] <robotgeek> yup. 
[10:28] <rob> mdke, nice, I'll send some comments later from work :)
[10:29] <LaserJock> mdke: do you know how easy it would be to update books with lulu?
[10:29] <frank_> robotgeek: do you have an easy way to see exactly what are the changes I made?
[10:29] <robotgeek> frank_: received, thanks. (better get an email address for the list)
[10:29] <rob> LaserJock, you can do it all on line
[10:30] <robotgeek> frank_: diff works for me, i can now read diffs :)
[10:30] <LaserJock> rob: so would a new version be done for each release?
[10:30] <rob> also bear in mind that without paying a fee (about $160) then the book will not get an ISBN number and thus not be available from bookstores
[10:30] <mdke> LaserJock, you just upload them
[10:31] <rob> it will be available online though the lulu bookstore though
[10:31] <LaserJock> I was sort of feeling the waters about interest in a packaging book.
[10:31] <mdke> i don't think online stores would be an option
[10:32] <mdke> linking from the document itself was more what I had in mind
[10:32] <frank_> robotgeek: yeah but is it easy to tell what I changed if all I did was remove a double  ..
[10:33] <robotgeek> frank_: no problem, let me try kompare too 
[10:41] <LaserJock> is the official Ubuntu book done?
[10:54] <robotgeek> frank_: commited, thanks. 
[10:57] <frank_> robotgeek: ok great
[10:57] <robotgeek> frank_: kdesvn crashed locking the directory, i had read quite a bit :)
[10:58] <frank_> ok
[11:00] <frank_> robotgeek:  I wanted to try kdesvn and it crashed on me too
[11:01] <robotgeek> frank_: it worked fine last time, dunno why it crashed this time. i'll probably try it at a lesser curcial time :)
[11:01] <frank_> robotgeek: how many hours left?
[11:04] <robotgeek> 3 hours
[11:05] <frank_> robotgeek: oh... that's it. Do you want help with anything else?
[11:05] <robotgeek> frank_: sure, more proofreading :)
[11:05] <robotgeek> the only proofreading it has gotten has been from me
[11:06] <frank_> robotgeek: hehe. yeah after a while it's impossible to see your own mistakes
[11:06] <frank_> robotgeek: what part should I do? are you still adding new stuff or just polishing?
[11:06] <robotgeek> yeah. plus the fact that we don't actually read all the words 
[11:07] <robotgeek> frank_: i was planning on a adding a small section on switching keyboard layouts, but i think it is done automatically. so skipping that one
[11:08] <frank_> robotgeek: once you have more than one setup (is that there?)  yuu click on the small flag to switch
[11:08] <robotgeek> frank_: well, no section yet. maybe we should add that in?
[11:09] <frank_> robotgeek: I say yes: lots of people use both english and their native language. 
[11:10] <robotgeek> frank_: can you add that in? i am not sure of the instructions? we can then probably move keyboard stuff into one section later
[11:11] <frank_> robotgeek: ok. where should I add it?
[11:12] <robotgeek> frank_: just add it say, before skim. we'll move everything together anyways (there are about 5 keyboard layout things)
[11:12] <robotgeek> err, keyboard related things
[11:12] <frank_> robotgeek: ok. Il do it right now
[11:12] <robotgeek> frank_: thanks, much appreciated :)
[11:14] <frank_> robotgeek: no problem ;)
[11:19] <robotgeek> brb
[11:23] <trappist> who owns the installation guide?
[11:24] <Burgwork> trappist, currently nobody
[11:24] <trappist> oh.
[11:24] <trappist> we have a couple of fill-in-the-blank paragraphs at the bottom of it.
[11:25] <trappist> something about how big to make your swap partition.  I'd fill them in, but the guide to that point uses different swap space rules of thumb than I was raised with, so I'm not sure what the author intended there.
[11:30] <Burgwork> trappist, we now have two installers
[11:30] <Burgwork> but in general, if you want to work on it, go nuts
[11:31] <trappist> aight
[11:31] <trappist> is the other (graphical?) installer documented?
[11:31] <Burgwork> ask Kamion
[11:31] <trappist> k
[11:52] <frank_> robotgeek: almost done. how do I write the & ?
[11:52] <robotgeek> frank_: &amp;
[11:55] <frank_> robotgeek: and what is the system tray called in kde? where the small icons are?
[11:55] <frank_> robotgeek: I see it's just called system tray ok
[11:55] <robotgeek> system tray :)