[01:58] <hendry> Kamion: i see the problem, the indices aren't being done right by the CD package creation thing
[02:00] <hendry> i ignored the indices in /srv/cdimage.no-name-yet.com because i thought it was to do with local/ which you told me to ignore
[02:01] <hendry> i created the package lists correctly on my mirror. but the CD creation doesn't seem to use those package lists and create new ones.
[02:04] <hendry> ok i think they're supposed to be in
[02:05] <hendry> $CDIMAGE_ROOT/ftp/indices
[02:12] <hendry> oh yes it worked. :)
[02:12] <hendry> now to test in vmware
[02:16] <hendry> oh yes! it seems to be working... muhahaha
[03:07] <Kamion> well done
[03:11] <hendry> Kamion: thanks =)
[03:11] <hendry> it didn't complain of a lack of a Release.gpg
[03:13] <hendry> it didn't seem to add my hannux desktop package
[03:13] <hendry> so i am a little confused by "tasks"
[03:13] <hendry> http://perry.khanworks.com/preseed/hannux.seed
[03:13] <hendry> that's the seed which i got from kubuntu.seed
[03:13] <hendry> there is no kubuntu-standard package
[03:13] <hendry> but there is a kubuntu-desktop
[03:13] <hendry> i want to use ubuntu as a base
[03:14] <hendry> as does kubuntu
[03:14] <hendry> so shouldn't it read ubuntu-standard|kubutu-desktop
[03:15] <hendry> i guess I somehow need to replace Ubuntu's base-files. Or we need to come up with a way of derivatives that can alter the /etc/issue
[03:21] <Kamion> no
[03:21] <Kamion> this is confusing, so it's understandable that you're confused :)
[03:21] <Kamion> you're mixing up tasks (which are constituted from Task: headers in the Packages file) with packages
[03:22] <Kamion> cdimage synthesises Task: headers based on your project name (so in your case hannux-standard, etc.) and makes them match whatever germinate says is in the standard seed
[03:22] <Kamion> when you use ~t in aptitude patterns, e.g. by preseeding pkgsel/install-pattern, you're talking about tasks; there don't have to be packages by the same name
[03:23] <hendry> why have tasks though? can't meta packages solve this problem?
[03:23] <Kamion> so in your case, your preseed file looks fine
[03:23] <Kamion> metapackages are an inferior solution
[03:24] <Kamion> they break down if your archive is not quite perfectly in sync, which happens pretty frequently in my experience of daily image builds
[03:24] <Kamion> they're also not quite as accurate in terms of what you're telling apt to do
[03:25] <Kamion> aptitude remembers what you've explicitly requested be installed
[03:25] <Kamion> if you request that a metapackage be installed, it will try not to remove the metapackage, but won't have any particular reason not to remove anything else
[03:25] <Kamion> if you request that a task be installed, it will try to keep everything in the task
[03:26] <Kamion> at least, that's how it should conceptually work; I'm not sure if the implementation currently matches up to that
[03:26] <hendry> it would be good if apt-cache show kubuntu-standard worked
[03:26] <Kamion> this is when you're asking it to clean up packages that aren't used any more, btw
[03:26] <Kamion> it's intentional that there's no kubuntu-standard package
[03:27] <Kamion> that task only really exists for the benefit of the installer
[03:27] <hendry> i meant, that it would be good to show a task ...
[03:27] <Kamion> oh, well that sort of thing is more likely to happen in aptitude anyway
[03:27] <Kamion> apt-get/apt-cache don't know about tasks
[03:28] <hendry> but aptitude does...
[03:28] <hendry> Kamion: ok, thanks for the explaination
[03:29] <Kamion> aptitude search \~tubuntu-standard
[03:29] <hendry> woo
[03:29] <Kamion> or \~tkubuntu-standard
[03:30] <hendry> yes
[03:31] <hendry> these tasks get applied to the package list by indices?
[03:31] <hendry> perry$ apt-cache show wget | grep Task
[03:31] <hendry> Task: edubuntu-standard, kubuntu-standard, ubuntu-standard
[03:32] <hendry> I think i see a problem
[03:32] <hendry> because I want Hannux to use Ubuntu in the sources.list. I want to use the Ubuntu "wget" package
[03:33] <hendry> since Ubuntu controls the package list, how will hannux-standard make it there?
[03:34] <Kamion> you're looking at a different list.
[03:34] <Kamion> you're looking at the one in archive.ubuntu.com
[03:34] <Kamion> cdimage makes up its own for Packages files on CD images
[03:35] <hendry> but once "hannux" is installed
[03:35] <hendry> it will be using package lists from archive.ubuntu.com and hannux.com
[03:35] <Kamion> well, if you're using the Kubuntu seeds, then you'll have kubuntu-standard installed
[03:35] <hendry> or are you saying, it doesn't matter, because they are only used in the initial install?
[03:35] <Kamion> (the metapackage)
[03:36] <Kamion> if you're not using them directly, but branching them, then you can create a hannux-standard metapackage
[03:36] <Kamion> yes, exactly that, the tasks only really matter in the initial install
[03:36] <hendry> Kamion: ok, that's fine then ...
[03:36] <hendry> what about base-files?
[03:36] <Kamion> what about it?
[03:36] <hendry> how do I get hannux in the issue?
[03:37] <Kamion> hendry: you can branch base-files on hannux.com if you like, and if you're prepared to fix all the packages that care about seeing Ubuntu in lsb-release output and the like
[03:37] <Kamion> if you leave /etc/lsb-release alone you have a better chance of it not breaking everything
[03:37] <hendry> Kamion: ok, point taken
[03:38] <Kamion> changing /etc/issue and /etc/issue.net should be relatively safe from that point of view
[03:38] <hendry> I could hopefully override the archive with my own hannux archive. so it install base-file from my repo, instead of yours.
[03:40] <hendry> in your override.dapper.* indices, there is no mention of tasks
[03:40] <Kamion> that's what I'd expect you to do, yes
[03:40] <hendry> so I guess I need to add Task override
[03:40] <Kamion> let cdimage take care of that
[03:40] <Kamion> it's done dynamically - don't poke at it manually, is my advice
[03:41] <hendry> oh
[03:41] <Kamion> look at cdimage/bin/germinate-to-tasks and whatever it is in debian-cd that handles the other end of that (debian-cd/tools/scanpackages, IIIRC)
[03:41] <Kamion> IIRC
[03:42] <Kamion> if you look at the Packages files in your CD image, it's probably already there
[03:42] <hendry> oh yes
[03:43] <hendry> :)
[03:43] <Kamion> I'm not saying cdimage is perfect, but it has nearly two years of accumulated cleverness ;)
[03:44] <Kamion> the hard bit is the setup ...
[03:45] <hendry> do you edit the germinate seeds for ubuntu often?
[03:45] <Kamion> yes
[03:45] <hendry> because i need to figure out how to merge in changes in bzr
[03:46] <Kamion> bzr merge <location of other archive>
[03:46] <Kamion> fix up any conflicts
[03:46] <Kamion> bzr commit
[03:46] <hendry> do you use bzr to sync up to Debian stuff etc?
[03:46] <Kamion> the seeds are an Ubuntu thing, they don't come from Debian
[03:46] <Kamion> if you mean packages, it depends on the packages
[03:47] <Kamion> the plan is eventually to do that, but we don't have bzr imports of the packages yet (we have baz imports of some, but not all)
[03:47] <hendry> i was wondering if you use some other tools
[03:47] <Kamion> depends
[03:47] <hendry> to compare diffs of debian and ubuntu
[03:47] <Kamion> http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/patches/
[03:48] <Kamion> er, sorry, wrong url
[03:48] <hendry> perry$ bzr merge http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/bzr/seeds.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/seeds/dapper/
[03:48] <hendry> bzr: ERROR: Branch <bzrlib.store.revision.text.TextRevisionStore object at 0xb78d33ac> has no revision entries
[03:48] <Kamion> http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/ongoing-merge/ I think it is
[03:49] <Kamion> no idea, ask on #bzr or something, sounds like either your bzr or your branch or both are busted
[03:49] <Kamion> try pulling down a copy of the seeds.ubuntu.com branch and merging from your local copy of that
[03:49] <hendry> bleh. ok.
[03:49] <hendry> i got a 404 on http://seeds.ubuntu.com/
[03:50] <hendry> i guess you mean your URI
[03:50] <Kamion> you quoted the URL yourself a moment ago, it contains seeds.ubuntu.com
[03:50] <Kamion> I know that seeds.ubuntu.com itself does not exist; it's intended to at some point, but we haven't got round to it
[03:50] <hendry> oh nps
[03:50] <hendry> are the mepis ppl also working with you?
[03:50] <hendry> i couldn't help notice they are doing the same thing as me
[03:51] <Kamion> not me personally
[03:51] <Kamion> but they're doing live CDs, which is a bit different
[03:51] <Kamion> (AIUI)
[03:51] <hendry> AIUI?
[03:51] <Kamion> as I understand it
[03:51] <Kamion> you don't have to set up Packages files on CD images or anything for live CDs; it's much easier
[03:51] <hendry> but they'll have to use expresso right?
[03:52] <Kamion> ("espresso")
[03:52] <Kamion> depends, if they want to
[03:52] <Kamion> they might have their own installer they'd want to use
[03:52] <Kamion> since espresso isn't done yet they might reasonably be steering clear for now
[03:52] <Kamion> we're certainly not making them use anything they don't want to use
[03:52] <hendry> i haven't even thought about live CDs yet. as my boss is keen on the server market, more so that the desktop.
[03:53] <Kamion> right, no particular reason you should
[03:53] <hendry> ok thanks again Kamion
[03:53] <hendry> you're very helpful :)
[03:53] <Kamion> I know some people think live CDs can do everything and should replace install CDs, but I've never subscribed to that view ...
[03:53] <hendry> Kamion: i agree
[03:53] <Kamion> (in fact it irritates me immensely :-))
[03:53] <hendry> :)