/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2006/04/11/#ubuntu-devel.txt

_TomBI have a directory tmp/ with the files and directories in12:04
Burgworkjordi, pong12:04
TheMuso_TomB: What did you need to update?12:05
_TomBsome casper scripts12:05
TheMuso_TomB: I suggest grabbing the source casper package, adding the scripts to that, rebuilding, and installing the casper package.12:05
TheMusoThen you need to update the initramfs of the kernel used on the live CD. It helps if you have the -386 kernel installed on your system.12:06
_TomBwhat's the easiest way to rebuild into a .deb?12:06
TheMuso_TomB: Grab the source, make the changes you want, and then in the main sorce directory, run dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot. Make sure you have casper's build dependancies as well as fakeroot installed.12:07
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Red_Herringhey, anyone concidered adding easyubuntu to dapper by default?12:07
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BurgworkRed_Herring, not for dapper. Something like easyubuntu would need to be discussed early12:08
Red_Herringhrm, couldnt it be concidered "polishing"?12:08
BurgworkRed_Herring, it is a significant new feature and is not polishing12:09
Red_Herringwell, easyubuntu is already finished, if i am not mistaken12:09
Red_Herringi dont think it would be difficult to just add it to the start menu by default12:10
BurgworkRed_Herring, finished != integrated12:10
Red_Herringbut ill take your word for it12:10
Red_HerringBurgwork: all it needs ot be "integrated" is to have a applications menu entry12:10
BurgworkRed_Herring, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/CommonInstallHook12:10
jordiBurgwork: hmm, want to test the Debian fix for your nano bug?12:11
jordithe Ubuntu package will need to be different, due to uvf12:11
Burgworkjordi, my nano bug?12:12
jordithe crontab editing thing12:12
jordiI think you reported it12:12
Burgworkjordi, was that a reportbug paste jobby?12:12
jordioh, probably12:12
Burgworkah12:13
Burgworkthe email for the reporter is there12:13
Red_Herringhas ANYONE taken any consideration on allowing the end user to install 3rd party apps that arent FOSS without all the terminal work?12:13
BurgworkRed_Herring, yes, via searching for them in Add/Remove or Synaptic12:13
Red_HerringBurgwork: uhh, they arent added by default, they are in the multiverse, and there still isnt java1.5 in the repos12:14
Red_Herringmaybe the latest update in the past 10 days or so has changed that, but not since i used it last12:14
BurgworkRed_Herring, this is very much an understood problem and I understand it is annoying that the solution isn't here, but it is not going to happen for dapper12:15
Red_Herringso what was the "6 weeks for polishing" for?12:15
Burgworkfixing hte 9000 open bugs in Malone12:16
Red_Herringw/e, i can help w/ the next release, but i still think its not that hard to have easyubuntu installed by default, and to just add it to the menu 12:16
Red_Herringhave it be dapper or the next release12:16
Burgworksorry, make that 9500 open bugs12:16
Red_HerringBurgwork: hrm, so in the mean time, how hard is it for a guy to add it, im willing to do it myself, but i wanna know if anyone will take my idea seriously12:17
BurgworkRed_Herring, here are the steps that are needed to make Easy ubuntu be available in ubuntu12:17
Burgwork1 - Package EasyUbuntu in .deb and get it into the repos12:18
Burgwork2 - Fill out a MainInclusionReport to get it into main12:18
Burgwork3 - ask the devs to add it the install cd12:18
Red_Herringand i got what? 8 weeks to do this?12:18
Red_Herringwell, i know there is a freeze in the last few weeks or so12:19
Red_Herringso more like a month12:19
Burgworksooner is better12:19
Red_Herringbut is this idea gonna be taken seriously?12:20
Burgworkit would be great to get it packaged12:20
Red_Herringare there any serious problems that i dont know about?12:20
Red_Herringother than the ppc version doesnt have much features12:20
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_TomBThank you TheMuso 12:20
BurgworkRed_Herring, get it packaged and then we can have this dicussion again12:21
Red_Herring... any ideas where i can get a howto on that?12:21
Red_Herringi have no experiance w/ packaging once so ever12:21
BurgworkRed_Herring, ask in #ubuntu-motu12:21
Burgworkthey will get you going12:21
=== Red_Herring wonders if they will tell me to go to #ubuntu-devel
Burgworknope12:22
BurgworkRed_Herring, you might also want to coordinate with this person http://forum.ubuntu-fr.org/viewtopic.php?id=3151512:22
Red_Herringthanks... i dont speak french12:24
BurgworkRed_Herring, that is a surmoutable problem12:24
Red_Herringgoogle translator...12:25
Red_Herringso someone already made a package...12:26
Red_Herringthat makes things exponentially easier12:27
LaserJockRed_Herring: where? and it might be better to move to -motu12:27
Red_Herringhttp://frazap.freehostia.com/easyubuntu_20060327.deb12:27
Red_Herringok, but this is just an idea, i really should not be made responsible for maintaing anything12:28
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nekohayohey there, if I want to file a bug on the logout dialog, what is the package name?01:56
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sladennekohayo: I'm not actually sure.  Try gnome-panel02:04
jdubnekohayo: gnome-session02:05
nekohayojust to make sure: I'm not the only one that the logout dialog pops up when waking up from standby am I ?02:06
sladennekohayo: even if you are, it's still a bug02:07
jdubnekohayo: hrm, interesting - do you go into suspend from the logout dialogue?02:07
nekohayoyes02:07
nekohayofiled as https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/gnome-session/+bug/3830102:08
UbugtuMalone bug 38301 in gnome-session "logout dialog pops up when waking up from standby mode" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  02:08
jdubnekohayo: nice one - make sure to metnion that :)02:08
nekohayojust out of curiosity jdub, I remember hibernation working in breezy/hoary, and it doesn't anymore, is there a bug I can watch about this?02:09
jdubnot sure02:09
ChipzzI have another nasty one02:10
nekohayoand... why can't I translate espresso in rosetta >_<?02:10
Chipzzhibernating *closes* your session02:10
Chipzzwhich is not at all what I want02:10
nekohayoI see parts of the graphical installer not being translated in French, I would like to be able to correct that :|02:12
mjg59nekohayo: Should work with the latest kernel02:14
mjg59Chipzz: Does it?02:14
sladenChipzz: do you mean that it fails to unhibernate and gives you a fresh boot?02:15
nekohayowhat do you mean mjg59 ? what should work? the standby bug? I'm fully up to date02:15
jdubChipzz: ?! ouch02:15
Amaranthwhy can't laptops be smart and sleep until they run out of juice then hibernate?02:16
sladennekohayo: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/dapper/+source/debian-installer/+pots/debian-installer/fr/+translate02:16
mjg59Amaranth: They will02:16
mjg59nekohayo: Hibernate02:16
mjg59nekohayo: As of today02:16
mjg59Amaranth: At least, most modern machines will02:16
mjg59Amaranth: They'll wake up when the battery becomes critical, at which point g-p-m will hibernate them02:17
nekohayosladen: thanks. I was searching for "espresso"02:17
Amaranthmjg59: great, we can remove "Hibernate" from the "end of session" dialog then ;)02:17
jdubAmaranth: no, sometimes you really want to know that you can hibernate and pull the plug out of the wall (or the battery out of the laptop)02:18
Amaranthhmm...work on alacarte or go read my new book02:18
Amaranthjdub: ah, good point02:18
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sladennekohayo: actually it might be.  Did you use the LiveCD to install?  In which case, yes, it would be espresso-gtk I think02:20
nekohayoyeah I'm talking about the livecd02:21
nekohayobut when looking at the "software list" in rosetta, I ctrl-F "espres" and nothing matches02:21
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Chipzznot a fresh boot, but a fresh session02:29
Chipzzit only happens when I use the gnome menu02:30
Chipzznot when I use the power manager applet right click02:30
mjg59Chipzz: Oh, right02:30
mjg59The logout menu signals in the wrong way02:30
nekohayohey something is itching me: why isn't the "system" menu in the gnome menu bar applet never translated? I think I saw it translated in stable releases, but it always reverts to "system" when in a development ubuntu, is there a reason ?_?02:31
nekohayowhy is*02:31
Amaranthnekohayo: well, it's an ubuntu-only modification02:31
Chipzzmjg59: not unavoidable (just use the power manager), but quite annoying as the power manager is not easily keyboard accesible02:31
Amaranthnekohayo: the translation for it probably keeps coming up fuzzy or something02:31
nekohayoit's ubuntu-done? not upstream?02:32
Amaranth"System" is, yes02:32
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Amaranthin upstream GNOME it's called "Desktop"02:32
mjg59Chipzz: As I said, it's a bug in the logout dialog (rather than hibernate)02:32
Chipzzyea, slight misphrasing on my part02:33
nekohayoo_O I never knew upstream called it desktop... now that's surprising me02:33
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spivBug 36512 is filed against alsa-driver, but it looks like maybe it's a kernel issue -- certainly kernel updates affect it.  Should it be reassigned?03:09
UbugtuMalone bug 36512 in alsa-driver "Dell Inspiron 630m sound is broken" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/3651203:09
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crimsunspiv: thanks, I'll triage it.03:14
crimsun(and do the necessary git work to push)03:14
spivcrimsun: Thanks!03:16
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lamontit appears that if sw raid decides to do recovery at boot (because I rebooted the machine during recovering the array), then evms just doesn't start.  Once the recovery finishes, rebooting the machine makes things happy again.  joy, joy06:08
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infinityKeybuk: Your dpkg upload is FTBFS.08:08
infinityhttps://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/dpkg/1.13.11ubuntu308:09
Keybuksweet08:10
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Keybukwill just bounce that back to the Nexenta guys08:11
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Keybukheh08:12
Keybukin fact08:12
Keybuklet's just reject that08:12
Keybuknext time I'll read a patch before applying it :)08:13
jdub!!!08:13
jdub;-)08:13
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Keybuk*shrug* mdz did his "URGENT! MAJOR! DAPPER 6.06!" thing on it, so I assumed he'd read it <g>08:13
mbieblKeybuk, hi. I'm the Debian co-maintainer of NM and wanted to discuss the handling of devices defined in /e/n/i with you.08:14
mbieblGot a minute?08:14
Keybuksure08:14
Keybuklet me just get some razor blades08:14
KeybukI love NM08:15
Keybukoh yes08:15
mbieblYour current policy seems to handle all devices not listed in /e/n/i, and all with dhcp+auto.08:15
pittiGood morning08:15
Keybukthat's right08:16
Keybukor, to put it another way08:16
pittiHey Keybuk 08:16
mbieblWhich seems a bit strange to me, because devices with auto are ifup with -a (/e/i/networking)08:16
Keybukall devices that the user hasn't provided some kind of configuration for, that would conflict with whatever NM tried to do with it08:16
mbieblWouldn't noauto+dhcp make more sense?08:16
Keybukno08:16
Keybukbecause noauto means "I don't want this device brought up"08:16
pittiit would for ethernet cards in principle08:16
pittibut the user has to configure that manually08:16
Keybukyes, auto+dhcp is brought up by udev, but not necessarily on the right wireless network08:17
Keybukit's NM's job to fix that later08:17
mbieblHm, but so the device is handled by /etc/init.d/networking and NM?08:17
Keybukno, by udev and NM in Ubuntu08:17
Keybukbit inelegant, I agree08:17
Keybukbut users never really notice08:17
mbieblDo you think, we should introduce a new keyword besides manual/static and dhcp?08:18
Keybukno08:18
Keybukbecause then we're getting as confusing as hell08:18
KeybukI think we should throw away ifupdown and admit that it just doesn't work these days08:18
Keybukthere are much more interesting problems with it08:18
mbiebl;-)08:18
Keybuklike the fact that it doesn't understand that dhclient can cause a network to go down when a lease is revoked, etc.08:19
pittiKeybuk: yesterday night I wrote a patch for n-m to make it work without wpasupplicant (w. trashes my Airport Extreme, and in general it's not really requrired); any objections if I upload that?08:20
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Keybukpitti: nope, none08:20
mbieblOk, for now I will choose the same behaviour for the Debian packages: auto+dhcp and not defined.08:21
pittiKeybuk: I'll explicitly seed it to ship in exchange08:21
KeybukI'm strongly leaning towards not seeding n-m, not even for live08:21
Keybukjust leave it in supported08:21
pittiKeybuk: uh, why not? I thought we wanted it in main?08:21
Keybukwhich, I guess means it's seeded, but you know what I mean08:21
pittiKeybuk: hm, I'd vote for ship08:21
Keybukmbiebl: beware that there's an NM bug which means it crashes if you have anything else in /e/n/i at the moment :)08:21
Keybukpitti: maybe ship08:22
neuralisKeybuk: it doesn't seem like replacing ifupdown with a smarter tool is too much work. if you want to spec it out, i'd be happy to write a replacement for edgy.08:22
Keybukthe problem with it on Live is that you then can't configure a static IP08:22
pittiKeybuk: yes, !desktop08:22
Keybukyou go into the admin tools and configure your static IP08:22
mbieblDoes that only affect the ubuntu backend?08:22
Keybukand NM fights you, and changes it back again08:22
Keybukmbiebl: it affects anything that says "no, don't control this interface"08:22
pittiKeybuk: right, it doesn't dynamically react to /e/n/i changes08:22
mdzKeybuk: I nudged on that bug because if our derivatives are sending us patches, we should be reading them and applying them where appropriate08:22
Keybukneuralis: my general thoughts are to go with something entirely different, where we have a set of ways of configuring any interface that comes up; and that each interface can elect to be configured or not in those ways08:24
Keybuk(which makes no sense, it's hard to explain)08:24
pittiogra: good news then! I currently upload a new n-m; upgrade to that, remove wpasupplicant, then the AE runs smooth as silk (even without that hackish if-pre-up.d script)08:24
mbieblpitti, NM would have to monitor /e/n/i for that. Don't know if it wouldn't be easier to add a hook to the admin tool to call NM to update its config.08:24
Keybukmbiebl: that crashes NM too at the moment :(08:24
pittimbiebl: yes, inotify could come in handy there :)08:24
=== Keybuk thought of that <g>
mbieblKeybuk, not good.08:25
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KeybukNM is a piece of crap08:25
pittiKeybuk: you say that at the time when it really really works for me the very first time :)08:25
Keybukpitti: now suspend your machine <g>08:26
Keybuk*KA-BOOM*08:26
pittiKeybuk: yes, I need to do iwconfig eth0 rate auto, but that's a bug in the bcm43xx driver08:26
neuralisKeybuk: actually, that makes sense, and i've been thinking about something along the same lines. 08:26
pittiKeybuk: after that, it just works08:26
pittiKeybuk: i. e. I need my personal /etc/power/resume.d script, but that's about it08:27
neuralisKeybuk: i'll prod you about writing a spec when the next conference rolls around.08:27
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Keybukneuralis: the net effect would be that there's always a default way of configuring every interface -- which would probably amount to "try DHCP, fall back to 169.254" type thing08:27
Keybukpitti: NM gets very upset when you ifdown interfaces it's playing with08:27
Keybukand the acpi stuff ifdown and ifups interfaces08:28
pittihave you guys ever heard a successful report about wpasupplicant on powerpc?08:28
Keybukalso NM gets very upset if you UP interfaces it doesn't know about08:28
pittiKeybuk: yes, the interface is shut down on suspend08:28
Keybukthen it starts playing silly buggers08:28
pittiI didn't try the latter08:28
infinitypitti: \o/ on the "make wpasupplication optional" patch.08:29
pittiinfinity: :)08:29
infinitysupplicant, too.08:29
Keybukinfinity: ITYM suppository08:29
mbieblBtw, is there a specific reason, why you wrote an own backend for ubuntu. I had a quick look at it and I think the differences are so minor, that there could be easily adapted/merged into the Debian backend.08:30
mbieblDo you want to keep your own backend or would you prefer you unify it again to save some work?08:30
Keybukjust on general principal mostly08:31
KeybukI didn't expect Debian to follow08:31
Keybukso was easier to do it as a separate file08:31
mbieblIt's mostly the handling of resolv.conf (where we have a slightly different approach in Debian) and the handling of device in /e/n/i08:32
mbieblAnd for the latter the Ubuntu behaviour seems sane to me. So I will adapt that.08:33
pittimbiebl: what do you think of making wpasupplicant optional? If you agree, I'll put the debdiff somewhere08:37
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Keybukour resolv.conf handling is pretty hand-wavy08:39
mbieblWhy not. If it does not have negative side effects I'm all for it.08:39
Keybukbasically just "let dhclient do that"08:39
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mbieblThere are still users that don't need encryption and so would benefit of it.08:40
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mbieblpitti, let me know, when you have the patch ready, or post it to the Debian BTS. I will then take a look at it.08:49
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pittimbiebl: it's already uploaded to Ubuntu08:50
pittimbiebl: http://patches.ubuntu.com/patches/network-manager.optional-wpasupplicant.diff08:51
mbieblpitti, thanks.08:52
pittimbiebl: pretty straightforward08:52
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mbieblHave to go to work now, guys. Nice talking to you. 08:57
mbieblcu08:57
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kagouhi09:05
pittihi  kagou 09:05
kagoui want to help translating messages on the first boot screen when installing. Where can i do that ?!09:07
pittikagou: hm, gfxboot doesn't yet seem to be imported into Rosetta09:08
kagouok pitti09:10
mdzMithrandir: have you ever seen bootchart not be killed by stop-bootchart?09:12
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kagoupitti: gfxboot-theme-ubuntu is in rosetta, it's all translated (french) but the fr.po in source package is not synchronized. is it normal ?! it's not automatical ?09:14
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pittikagou: oh, 'Translations' is greyed out on https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/gfxboot-theme-ubuntu, interesting09:15
pittikagou: entirely possible, Rosetta currently has a huge import backlog09:15
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kagouthanks pitti09:16
ogami1972hey all you ubuntu developers!09:17
ogami1972THANK YOU! it's great!09:17
pittiogami1972: thanks for the flowers :)09:17
ogami1972:)09:17
pittiogami1972: so, what's your pet bug? :-P09:17
ogami1972well, i am just a lowly user09:18
ogami1972but09:18
ogami1972no wait- no buts09:18
ogami1972ubuntu is the best!09:18
pittirock!09:18
mdzpitti: it might be a good idea to add wpasupplicant to desktop on i386 so that it can work out of the box09:19
Keybukmdz: it's in standard09:19
mdzoh?09:19
pittimdz: I wanted to seed it to the same component as n-m itself09:19
pittioh, so it's in desktop already, I see09:19
mdzah, so it is09:19
pittihm, that's pretty bad09:19
Keybukmdz: it works well, and integrates nicely with ifupdown, etc.09:20
Keybukso deserves to be alongside things like wireless-tools09:20
pittiright, I remember having to uninstall u-standard when I purged wpasupplicant09:20
mdzbut I thought pitti changed the dependency because having it installed broke things on powerpc09:20
ogami1972am running 2 "dist-upgrade" boxes ( a compaq presario 900Mhz and a Inspirion 3700) and breezy on a dimension 2.4g- am setting up a dual-boot sytem to give away ( my third)09:20
pittiright09:20
Keybukit works ok on powerpc for me09:20
mdzbut if it's in standard, that was a no-op at least for the live cd09:20
KeybukI thought it was just NM+WPA that broke09:20
ogami1972anyway- thx again!09:20
mdzand to some extent for the installed system too09:20
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mdzKeybuk: right, N-M09:20
pittiyes, but there's currently no way to tell n-m not to use it09:21
KeybukI want to take NM out of live anyway09:21
mdzoh?09:21
Keybukit's damned hard to shut down09:21
Keybukand means people can't use things like ppp, static IP, etc. on the live cd09:21
Keybukwhich seems rather a bug09:21
pittiso, if I'm right, n-m needs to dynamically react to /e/n/i changes for that, that's about it?09:23
Keybuknot just /e/n/i changes09:23
pittialso manual ifconfig ones, hmm09:23
Keybukppp brings up ppp0, NM goes "aha!  I'll manage that, THANK YOU VERY MUCH"09:23
pittican it sensibly drive modems?09:23
KeybukI don't think so09:24
Treenakswould be a great wishlist bug ;)09:24
pittiwhy not have it ignore ppp* then?09:24
Keybukpitti: because right now, it'd crash whenever you brought up a ppp* interface09:24
pittioh dear09:24
KeybukNM IS MY FAVOURITE EVER THING09:24
=== pitti hugs Keybuk
pittiKeybuk: let's take nm and cupsys out for a public spanking :-P09:25
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Keybukaww09:31
KeybukI'd prefer a public hanging09:32
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Keybukmake them both dance the hemp fandango09:32
infinitymdz: Can I get a UVF exception for Subversion 1.3.1?  Looks like only bugfixes.  Changelog at: http://svn.collab.net/repos/svn/tags/1.3.1/CHANGES09:34
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mdzinfinity: looks good09:35
infinitymdz: Rock.  Thanks.09:35
ograpitti, nice09:36
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Keybuksiretart: ya know, it's probably easier if we just chat on IRC :)09:39
Keybukdid you mean "waiting for root filesystem", not "waiting for sysfs"? :p09:41
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KeybukTreenaks: anywhere in particular?09:42
TreenaksPressing Shift (and then 'abort'ing the graphical stuff) makes it work.09:42
TreenaksKeybuk: there :)09:42
Keybukshift? graphical stuff?09:42
TreenaksKeybuk: Yes, in  the bootloader09:43
TreenaksKeybuk: Pressing shift disables gfxboot09:43
KeybukLiveCD?09:43
Treenaksno, install09:43
KeybukI thought we used grub?09:43
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TreenaksKeybuk: Whatever is used, using 'shift' I can disable the graphical bootloader, and then it works.09:44
Keybukand you see "waiting for sysfs" or something?09:44
TreenaksKeybuk: No, I see an Ubuntu logo, and the system hangs09:45
TreenaksKeybuk: it doesn't even get to the point where it loads/boots the kernel09:45
infinityDifferent bug.09:45
Keybukso you were just jumping in, while I was looking like I was in a bug-fixing mood, eh?09:45
KeybukDON'T YOU KNOW HOW EARLY IT IS?! ")($ :p09:45
infinityTreenaks: Your bug has been reported against gfxboot-theme-ubuntu, and isn't what Keybuk was talking about. :)09:45
Treenaksinfinity: oh ok :)09:45
TreenaksKeybuk: I saw 'booting bug' and jumped in :)09:46
Keybukinfinity: do you know much about LVM?09:46
infinityYeah, cause we only ever have one of those at a time. :)09:46
ograKeybuk, thanks for pointing out *yawn*09:46
infinityKeybuk: Do you know what SFA stands for?09:46
Keybukinfinity: nope09:47
KamionTreenaks: yes, known bug, working on it09:47
infinityKeybuk: fabbione may be your man for lvm stuff... At least, he's probably used it more than once.09:47
Keybukogra: pointing out?09:47
TreenaksKamion: ok, thanks09:47
infinityKeybuk: Oh.  In that case, I know "sweet fuck all" about lvm.  Now you know. :)09:47
Keybukahh09:47
ogra<Keybuk> DON'T YOU KNOW HOW EARLY IT IS?! ")($ :p09:47
KeybukI would have got that, had it been, oh, after breakfast09:47
Kamionkagou: yes, gfxboot-theme-ubuntu is (obviously) not subject to language packs and requires me to sync translations from Rosetta by hand, which I do every so often09:47
kagouKamion: ok thanks for the precision09:48
Keybukfabbione: siretart is trying to mount a rootfilesystem with /dev/$VOLUMEGROUP/$LOGICAL09:48
Keybukwhich I've never heard of before09:48
Keybukand clearly, neither has the lvm initramfs script09:48
KinnisonKamion: No, no progress yet, sorry09:48
KamionKeybuk: that's common enough practice] 09:48
Kamionminus the random punctuation that happens to be next to my Enter key09:49
Kamionthe practice dates from LVM1 really, before /dev/mapper/ was in use09:49
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Kamion(AFAIK)09:49
KeybukKamion: oh, elmo let me in :)  so I guess at some point I'm ready to start lessons on ftp stuff09:49
KeybukKamion: do you know what creates those device nodes?09:49
Kamionnope09:50
Keybukbugger09:50
Kamionsure, can give you a run-through once I've woken up a bit09:50
hungerKeybuk: That works after the system is up.09:50
kagouKamion: may be you could answer me ... is there a project to translate init messages ?!09:50
hungerKeybuk: But the kernel expects /dev/mapper/$VG-$LV.09:50
Keybukhunger: s/kernel/initramfs/09:50
Kamionkagou: no, and no infrastructure for it yet either so doing the translations would be kinda pointless09:50
Keybukkernel doesn't expect anything09:50
Keybukhunger: do you know what creates the /dev/$VG/$LV then?09:50
hungerKeybuk: Aehm, right.09:51
kagouok09:51
hungerKeybuk: I'd expect the lvm start/stop script, but I never bothered to look.09:51
fabbioneKeybuk: bug number?09:51
KamionI thought I remembered the LVM tools transforming /dev/$VG/$LV into /dev/mapper/$VG-$LV at run-time, or something crazy like that09:51
fabbioneKamion: yes that is correct09:51
Keybukfabbione: bug 3823609:51
UbugtuMalone bug 38236 in lvm-common "boot with root on lvm fails with root=/dev/vg/lv" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/3823609:51
jdubmjg59: http://www.flickr.com/photos/dirkolbertz/124109733/09:51
Keybukoh man09:51
Keybukso it's sickness09:52
hungerKeybuk: I can confirm that. I stumbled over that before as well.09:52
Keybukso what you're saying is that /dev/$VG/$LV never exists09:52
Keybukand the evil lvm tools of doom just go "oh, you mean /dev/mapper/$VG-$LV" whenever you mention them?09:52
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KamionDapper development status meeting in #ubuntu-meeting in 7 minutes09:53
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Kamionrecently I've started getting lots of spam forged from mdz@ubuntu.com09:53
fabbioneKeybuk: rejected..09:53
fabbioneKeybuk: it's not a bug..09:54
KeybukKamion: heh, me too09:54
fabbioneoh09:54
fabbionethe meeting..09:54
Keybukbogofilter has since started filing ALL mails from mdz09:54
fabbionehel i forgot to write the report!09:54
Kamiondo it quickly09:54
infinityKeybuk: Ick.  There's nothing we can do to solve that, since /dev/randomstring/randomstring could just as easily refer to a real device, so I can't go blindly trying it as an LV...09:54
Keybukinfinity: indeed09:54
KeybukI totally agree09:55
infinityKeybuk: Or can I, perhaps, depending on when it's done?09:55
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=== infinity ponders.
infinityEither way, icky.09:55
Keybukinfinity: the lvm script could assuming anything /dev/*/* was worth a try09:55
Keybukbut no09:55
hungerKeybuk: Just remove /dev/$VG/$LV during runtime:-)09:55
Keybukthat bug can go to the great big REJECTED bin in the sky09:55
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KeybukDiziet: I always meant to ask; are you Diziet the drone, or Diziet Sma?10:00
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DizietSma.10:04
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pefhello, what does "PaS" means in a debian/changelog ?10:08
KeybukPackages-arch-Specific or something10:08
Kinnisonyep10:08
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pefperfect, thank you :)10:09
Keybukbasically the list of "not for us" packages for a given arch10:09
carlosRiddell: ok, then, there are three .pot files from kdebase that should be fixed. They are generated, but are using UTF-8 chars inside it and thus, the header should have 'charset=UTF-8', gettext does it automatically, I'm not sure why is not done for KDE...  The .pot files are: kfontinst.pot  knetattach.pot  konqueror.pot10:18
carlosRiddell: also, the hacks.pot file from kdeartwork lacks the standard header that all .pot and .po files have and we are rejecting it10:19
carloscould you fix it, please?10:19
Riddellcarlos: I'll look into them10:19
carlosRiddell: thanks. I can file bugs about those problems if you prefer it..10:20
j^Keybuk rigth now NM with orinoco_pci does not work with encrypted networks, and without a patch(bug 36708) for hostap_pci it does not works with unencypted networks with hostap_pci. indending to change that?10:23
UbugtuMalone bug 36708 in network-manager "[PATCH]  wpa_supplicant needs to know about hostap driver" [Critical,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/3670810:24
Keybukj^: change which part?10:24
j^Keybuk i dont care, i suggested to go the hostap_pci route since that also brings WPA support10:25
Keybukbtw, did the author of that patch deliberately try to make their coding style almost exactly different to the surrounding style10:25
j^Keybuk if its about strcmp ("hostap", kernel_driver)<=0 vs !strcmp (kernel_driver, "ndiswrapper")10:26
Keybukwell, first off is the whole orinoco vs. hostap argument, which is still very much open10:26
j^thats doing something else10:26
j^hostap is patching hostap_pci and hostap_cs etc10:26
j^*matching10:26
Keybukright, but that will mean that you'll get the hostap driver if kernel_driver is "rtl8129" for example10:27
Keybukbecause hostap < rtl812910:27
j^Keybuk besides the argument about the default, hostap, if choosen manulay should work10:27
j^in that case it should be !strcmp (kernel_driver, "hostap_pci") || !strcmp (kernel_driver, "hostap_cs") || !strcmp (kernel_driver, "hostap_plx")10:28
Keybukaye10:28
Keybukanyway, it is on my list'o'bugs10:28
Keybukand there's a patch10:28
Keybukbut there are bigger NM bugs first10:28
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siretartKeybuk: ok, now I'm sort of available. that machine with the lvm 'trouble' is my machine at home. when I'm home (in about 7h), I can look up the exact error message from the initrd10:59
Keybukyour bug got rejected anyway -- only the /dev/mapper/$VG-$LV is supposed to work11:00
seb128mdz: could you get me a backtrace for bug #34396 now? They will roll new gst tarballs next will, we can probably get the crasher fixed if we forward the issue (it might be already fixed)11:04
UbugtuMalone bug 34396 in totem "Totem scroll not working properly" [Normal,Needs info]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/3439611:04
mdzseb128: I'm not sleepy anymore ;-)11:04
seb128hehe11:05
mdz#0  0xb4b40e28 in mpeg2_init_fbuf () from /usr/lib/libmpeg2.so.011:05
mdz#1  0xb55424ed in ?? () from /usr/lib/gstreamer-0.10/libgstmpeg2dec.so11:05
mdzvery easy to reproduce here, I just hold the scroll thumb and go back and forth a few times11:05
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mdzinstalling -dbg11:06
Lathiat11:07
seb128mdz: that's known, no need11:07
mdzheh, doesn't help anyway11:07
mdz#0  0xb4af4e28 in mpeg2_init_fbuf () from /usr/lib/libmpeg2.so.011:07
mdz#1  0xb54f64ed in __PRETTY_FUNCTION__.17258 ()11:07
mdz   from /usr/lib/gstreamer-0.10/libgstmpeg2dec.so11:07
Kinnisonmdz: since I appear to be a member of ubuntu-archive should I be prepared to do syncs, or is that just in case I'm needed for other stuff?11:07
seb128mdz: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=33528811:08
UbugtuGnome bug 335288 in gst-plugins-ugly "Totem Crashes on Certain .mpg Files" [Normal,Assigned]  11:08
StevenKHah, __PRETTY_FUNCTION__. How nice of them.11:08
mdzKinnison: I created the team based on group membership on drescher11:08
Kinnisonmdz: fair enough11:08
mdzKinnison: if you have the privileges and know the tools, I'm happy for you to help11:08
siretartKeybuk: well, I tried to boot without any root= line as well, and it showed the same symptoms. is THIS supposed to work?11:08
Kinnisonmdz: okay11:08
Keybuksiretart: without any whatsoever?  not even the default one?11:08
Keybukthat'd probably sit twiddling it's thumbs, yeah :p11:09
Kamionmdz: presumably Keybuk needs to be added to ubuntu-archive now too11:09
Keybukfiled under "well, don't do THAT then"11:09
mdzKamion: ah, that must have changed very recently. will do11:09
siretartKeybuk: I wasn't sure because of your last mail to u-d-a, it seemed to me that rootfs autodetection should enable booting without any root= kernel param at all, which doesn't work for me11:10
Keybuksiretart: there is no rootfs autodetection11:10
Keybukthat would be somewhat magic :)11:11
Keybukif you feel like a project, it'd be damned cool11:11
Keybukperhaps with a little menu for when it finds multiple choices11:11
siretartok. then I got something wrong, and it was right to reject that bug.11:12
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Keybukthe waiting thing is initramfs-tools btw11:14
Keybuknot udev11:14
Keybukit loops at the point of no return, just before it's about to m ount t11:14
Keybukof course, the fact you get there means you have a bug11:14
mjg59jdub: Yeah, that's about as far as he's going to get11:14
jdubmjg59: so is bootcamp pushing a BIOS out to all mactels?11:15
Kamionjdub: unfortunately it doesn't help us much11:15
Kamionjdub: once you're in the legacy mode, you can't talk to EFI and therefore you can't install a bootloader11:16
Kamionalthough it would make the live CD work11:16
jdubsuck!11:16
jdubthus their installer-installer for XP...11:16
mjg59jdub: It could probably be made to work with extreme pain11:21
mjg59jdub: But realistically, we want it to work without having to jump through these hoops11:21
jdubyeah11:21
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dholbachmdz, Kamion: what do you think about bug 34430 - would it be ok, if I seeded gimp-print to ubuntu-desktop?11:32
UbugtuMalone bug 34430 in ubuntu-meta ubuntu-desktop "add gimp-print to ubuntu-desktop" [Wishlist,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/3443011:32
mdzdholbach: seems logical; I thought it was already there11:33
dholbachmdz: it was merely a recommends of gimp (as it "worked without it") - ogra mused it might have been a dependency (or something) in breezy11:34
dholbachi'm happy to do it (and not get bug reports for it any more) :-)11:34
ograogra@edubuntu:~$ apt-cache showsrc gimp-print|grep main11:37
ograDirectory: pool/main/g/gimp-print11:37
ogra^^^ breezy :)11:37
dholbachmdz: seeded it11:41
Keybukmdz: ubuntu-archive team needs an emblem! :D11:43
mdzKeybuk: you are official ubuntu-archive emblem delegate11:44
dholbachthat's a title for a business card11:44
Keybukmdz /usr/share/icons/Human/16x16/filesystems/gnome-fs-ftp.png11:44
ograyeah11:44
pittidholbach: isn't gimp-print obsoleted by gutenprint nowadays?11:44
Treenakspitti: gimpprint the library is, but gimp-print is the 'Print' menu entry/dialog box for the GIMP image editor11:45
pittiah, I see11:45
ograpitti, thats how i understood it as well back then, but seems not to be the ccase11:45
pittiRiddell: did you get my /msg from this morning?11:46
ograwe had no binary called gimp-print in breezy ... thats new11:46
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Riddellpitti: replied11:58
KamionKinnison: any idea how it would be best to request updates of uid_mappings in /srv/launchpad.net/codelines/current/scripts/ftpmaster-tools/sync-source.py?12:00
KamionKinnison: that dictionary needs to be updated reasonably often when new people request syncs of stuff12:01
KamionKinnison: can I just monkey in an update and send somebody a patch?12:02
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KinnisonKamion: for now, monkey in changes and send patches to me12:04
Kamionok, thanks12:04
Kamioneventually that script should be taught to just use launchpad ids12:04
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Keybukhmm12:20
Keybukpitti: why can'12:20
Keybukcan't I see your sync requests?12:20
Keybukoh12:21
Keybukmdz: did you really mean for the team to be subscribed to syncs and not assigned them?12:22
Kamionyes, I noticed that, assigned bugs don't necessarily show up in +subscribedbugs12:22
Kamionwhich is an insanely annoying malone quirk12:22
pittiKeybuk: I just followed the instructions which asked to sub the team12:23
Keybukyeah12:23
Keybukthe instructions do say that12:23
pittihttps://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-archive/+subscribedbugs12:23
pittiworks quite well12:23
Keybukpitti: except the one sladen filed and put in +assignedbugs isn't in that list12:23
dholbachhm, it seems that bug 10822 has re-surfaced12:24
UbugtuMalone bug 10822 in localechooser "en_US users see en_GB strings all over?" [Normal,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/1082212:24
dholbachbug 38250 and bug 38136 indicate that12:24
UbugtuMalone bug 38250 in epiphany-browser "incorrect default keyword search page" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/3825012:24
UbugtuMalone bug 38136 in evolution "British English Spellings are Used" [Minor,Rejected]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/3813612:24
pittiKeybuk: just to be sure, I'll modify my script to assign *and* subscribe the archive team12:24
Keybukpitti: doesn't assigning infer subscription?12:24
pittiKeybuk: I hoped so, but as Kamion says this might not always be the case12:25
KamionKeybuk: ("imply". grr. pet peeve)12:26
Kamiondholbach: please only reopen 10822 if you're sure that it's due to the installer and not something else messing with $LANGUAGE12:26
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dholbachok, will put some more investigation into it12:29
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KeybukKamion: I clearly have the opposite to dholbach's bug12:31
Keybukmy brain is getting words from en_US12:31
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sladenKeybuk: should I subscribe ubu12:32
sladenKeybuk: should I subscribe 'ubuntu-archive' on that bug, or change the instructions on the wiki?12:32
Kamionsubscribe ubuntu-archive for now, I think12:32
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KamionI don't think it'll always make sense to assign ubuntu-archive12:33
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Kamionthanks :)12:38
Kamion(er, echan)12:39
KeybukKamion: don't mention it12:39
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dholbachKeybuk: hum... why didn't the ubuntu-meta upload get my seed changes?12:57
Keybukdholbach: did you forget to push them?12:59
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dholbachno... i think not12:59
=== dholbach looks
KeybukI see no dhugbach in bzr log01:00
Keybukoh, wait01:01
Keybuk10:40:20 today01:01
ograbtw, will we get a working bzrk anytime again ? 01:01
dholbach0 revision(s) pushed.01:01
dholbachseems I pushed it01:01
janimomvo, hello. I have just noticed that update-manager depends on gconf. I somehow missed it before01:01
Keybukprobably means that the http copies didn't update yet01:01
janimodirectly I mean not via python-gnome01:01
Keybukthey were updated sometime before you pushed01:01
Keybukand will be updated sometime soon01:01
dholbachalright01:01
dholbachwell... it's not terribly urgent... i just wondered01:02
ograit takes ~20 min until they get pulled in01:02
Keybukdholbach: looks like they're up now, so you could update and upload01:02
dholbachas I said... it's not that urgent01:03
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ogrameh, if you want to use sorting by distro on the new +packages page, you'll always get breezy first ... :/ we should have release numbers instead of names there01:05
mvojanimo: hm, ok01:06
KeybukKinnison: so, this is probably a really silly question01:06
Keybukbut is there any way to unpublish a source package?01:06
mvojanimo: I have a upgrade failure for you (breezy->dapper with xfce installed in breezy)01:06
jdubdholbach: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/evolution/+bug/3785801:06
UbugtuMalone bug 37858 in evolution "Missing emails in data file" [Normal,Rejected]  01:06
mvojanimo: do you prefer mail or bugreport?01:06
jdubdholbach: that doesn't appear to be a support requiest01:06
jdubrequest01:06
jdubthat appears to be an actual bug01:07
janimomvo, whichever is easier for you01:07
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dholbachjdub: he seems to have deleted some files... "help me recover" is a support request, no?01:07
jdubdholbach: no, the emails are there, but not displayed01:08
dholbachi understood the "I deleted ..." as "I deleted some files and now things are broken, please help me"01:09
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KinnisonKeybuk: define unpublish01:12
KeybukKinnison: "oops, I didn't read that patch and it all FTBFS so I'd like to make like that upload never happened"01:12
ograjust upload a fixed version ? 01:13
KinnisonKeybuk: If it's not a case of "this results in all builds failing horribly for everything" then as ogra says, upload a fixed version and take the embarassment01:13
Keybukogra: the fixed version was the one in the archive before I uploaded that one :)01:13
ograso revert the change in the next upload01:14
jdubdholbach: he's goign to repoen it and point to other people's reproductions of it 8)01:14
ogra:)01:14
=== Kinnison can "unpublish" but it won't remove the announce, and it might confuse things a lot, and it'll take about an hour of database surgery to unpick it all
KeybukI uploaded an ubuntu4 which is identical to ubuntu2 except for the changelog01:14
Keybukbah01:14
Keybukyou mean there's no "LOOK OVER THERE!" surgery tool? :p01:14
KinnisonNo because of the mirrors etc01:14
Kinnisonlaunchpad is an honest and hardworking lad01:15
KeybukBOR-ING01:15
=== Kinnison shrugs.
ograand you get into trouble if i grab your source before it built01:15
Kinnisonbetter to be boring and consistent01:15
Kinnisonthan risk breaking mirrors etc01:15
ograand upload my change 01:15
KeybukI like getting in trouble01:16
=== ogra grabs the source
ogra:)01:17
KinnisonKeybuk: y'think that if there was a "look over there, an obvious distraction!" tool, I'd have let my upload of g-p-m with the shoddy changelog remain in the archive?01:18
=== Kinnison hands keybuk a "one free test build with every package" ticket and suggests he uses it :-)
KeybukKinnison: bah01:19
dholbachjdub: did the guy point you to the bug?01:19
KeybukKinnison: testing builds involves installing build-deps01:19
Keybukwhich nearly always find some way of conflicting with something I have installed01:20
Keybukor, these days01:20
=== Kinnison hands keybuk pbuilder
Keybukpulling in postfix and resolvconf01:20
KeybukI've never got pbuilder to work01:20
Kinnisoneh?01:20
ograhuh ?01:20
Kinnisons'easy01:20
Kamionor just debootstrap a chroot01:20
KeybukKamion: still hassle :p01:20
Keybukinfinity tells me soon enough if it doesn't build <g01:21
ograyou didnt read dholbachs PbuilderHowto ?01:21
janimoogra, that howto is very confusing01:21
ograerr ? 01:21
Keybukogra: confused the hell out of me01:21
=== janimo thinks about rewriting it
Keybukand still suffers the same pbuilder problem I hit every time01:21
ogradholbach, ^^^^01:21
Keybukyou need a source package01:21
janimomentions all kinds of cr*p you don;t actually need01:21
Keybukwhich means you need the build-deps01:21
janimolike messing with /etc and apt config stuff01:21
janimonone of that is actual01:22
Keybukor, at least, some of them01:22
Kinnisonwhy do you need the build-deps for making a source package?01:22
KamionKeybuk: you don't need the build-deps to create a source package01:22
KeybukKinnison: evil ones that edit control01:22
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Kamionat worst, you need one or two of them01:22
Keybukor, e.g. postfix, which fails in clean if libdb4.3-dev isn't installed01:22
KinnisonKeybuk: change them so that they don't01:22
dholbachogra: what?01:22
Kamionlike cdbs01:22
Keybukaye01:22
Keybukonce I've got the energy up to doing that though, it's easier just to build it on the machine01:22
ogradholbach, they say your PbuilderHowto is confusing01:22
Keybukrather than muck around with pbuilder01:22
dholbachogra: it's not mine... i made some tiny additions to an existing page01:22
janimoogra, that howto does not seem to be touched since hoary?01:23
ograjanimo, Keybuk 01:23
ograInstalling Pbuilder on dapper01:23
ograThe latest pbuilder package in dapper (0.145ubuntu2) should work out of the box. You only need to install it. Then run:01:23
ograpbuilder create 01:23
ograand then01:23
ograpbuilder buld my-pacakge_1.0.dsc01:23
janimoI'll rewrite it. It looks there actually confuses others too not just me01:23
ograwhats confusing there ? 01:23
Keybukogra: needs the dsc01:23
janimoogra, is that in the howto?01:23
ograyes01:23
Keybukwhy can't it build the package in the current working directory01:23
ograat the top01:23
janimook, did not check in the lats 2 weeks01:24
Keybukwhen I'm testing builds, I've nearly always got edits I want to test01:24
KeybukI don't want to have to clean it, make a source, etc. just to test it01:24
Kamionyou can always copy the cwd into the chroot and 'pbuilder login'01:24
KeybukKamion: but then why? :)01:24
Kamionyou might then not have to ask how to unpublish a source package. :)01:24
mvojanimo: let me know if the latest uploads works as expected please 01:24
KeybukKamion: I'd still not bother testing builds of drive-by patching01:25
ograoh, you are right its very coinfusing ... "buld" should be "build" 01:25
janimomvo, ok, thanks. I assume update-notifier01:25
=== ogra fixes
Keybukpatch, changelog, upload, NEXT! :p01:25
TheMuso01:25
mvojanimo: and pbuilder :)01:25
janimomvo, you mean the patch from MOTU?01:25
mvojanimo: yes, the stuff I uploaded01:26
mvo(for pbuilder)01:26
Keybukoh, if you copy the cwd into the chroot, you then find that emacs in the chroot doesn't have my .emacsrc :)01:26
dholbachoh stop complaining :-p01:26
Keybukthe only use I've ever found for a chroot is checking you've got the build-deps right on a new package01:27
jdubdholbach: yeah, SLUG dude. :)01:27
ograbah, aussie conspiracy01:27
dholbachjdub: i see... i replied :)01:27
ograagainnst our hugmaster01:27
dholbach:-p01:28
jdubheh, he hadn't even replied/reopened yet 8)01:29
jdubthat'll freak him out a bit01:29
janimomvo, thanks I'll take a look at the breezy->dapper issue.I know I corrected a similar one last week fro the same two packages.01:30
mvojanimo: cool, thank01:33
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janimomvo, hmm I don't see recent uploads by you on the changes list01:43
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pittimvo: enjoy!01:51
mvopitti: thanks :)01:51
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TMMhi all!02:01
TMMI was just having a little discussion with someone, and he advised me to go here and ask your collective opinions on autopackage02:01
ograjust dont ask02:02
TMMI am not trying to start a flamewar or anything :)02:02
ograthere are several threads on the ubuntu-devel ML ... look at the archives02:03
TMMok02:03
ograhttp://www.kitenet.net/~joey/blog/entry/autopackage_designed_by_monkeys.html might be informative too02:04
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TMMogra: not entirely accurate though, the functions of the shell scripts don't change during stable releases02:07
sebeston a related note, why is it needed to have root privileges to install packages? many package should be installable by normal user02:07
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sebestthings  like firefox, gaim, gimp etc etc02:07
ograTMM, i didnt write it02:07
ograsebest, how would you do that without write access to the system directorys ? 02:08
sebestogra, i would install them in the home directory02:08
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ograsebest, cool, so with 200 users you install 200 times firefox in their homes ? 02:09
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sebestwith 200 users, it's different usecase, you are in an enterprise use case02:09
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zakameogra: not to mention in various states (some installed, some half-installed, some broken...)02:10
sebestbtw, it's already doable, just not easy02:10
Treenakszakame: and different versions!02:10
ograyay02:10
=== zakame hugs Treenaks
ograthats only 1.8G in the firefox case with 200 users :)02:10
sebestogra, you know a lot of workstation with 200 users on it? :)02:11
kentif the programs dependencies or right - they could easely be installed in system folders (no need for autop.),  if not - they will need lots of dependency-files and creating a mess.02:11
ograsebest, nope, but i know several edubuntu installations with 400 for example 02:11
sebestand btw , if they can already do it02:11
sebestogra, yes, but nothing forbid them to install 400 firefox in their home :)02:12
mjg59sebest: Quotas generally do02:12
ograsebest, sanity does (i hope)02:12
zakamenot to mention maintaining a $HOME/var/lib/dpkg/* ...02:12
Treenaksnoexec does, too :P02:13
sebestok ok ok , was just a bad suggestion ;)02:13
TheMusocan anybody tell me why if I blacklist a usb controller module, ehci_hcd in this case, in /etc/modprobe.d/blacklist, that it still gets loaded on subsequent reboots?02:13
ograit comes up once a month ... we're used to it :)02:13
sebestogra: you mean autopackage, or being able to install software as normal user?02:14
ograas often as autopackage i think...02:14
ograboth 02:14
zakameTheMuso: experienced the same, except I was trying to blacklist nvidia02:14
ograrelated or unrelated02:14
ogranot as often as klick though02:15
sebesti don't care about autopackage, but i thought it "may" make sense that a normal user can install a simple package without being root02:15
TheMusozakame: Glad I am not the only one. For a sec I thought that the controller driver was loaded by something other than udev for a sec there.02:15
sebestso klick is also a bad thing?02:15
ograits an autopackage frontend ...02:15
Keybukusually it means something else (other than modprobe) is causing the device to get loaded02:16
Keybuks/device/module/ sorry02:16
sebestogra, i thoug that click was more an apt server side02:16
TheMusoKeybuk: Yeah thats true.02:16
ograwith autopackage bits included02:16
jdubsebest: it's just a different way to blat blobs of goop on the disk02:16
Keybukzakame: nvidia is usually loaded explicitly by the xserver and its shell scripts, iirc02:16
jdubsebest: different to autopackage, but the 'interesting' bit is the url handler to download klik blobs02:17
TheMusoKeybuk: But after logging into a console after a fresh boot, the controller driver is loaded, yet no other modules seem to depend on something.02:17
zakameKeybuk: hmm, even if I use `nv'?02:17
TheMusoI am probably missing something here however.02:17
Keybukzakame: something must be loading it02:17
zakameindeed :/02:17
KeybukTheMuso: best thing would be to work out where it's being loaded02:18
TheMusoRight.02:18
Keybukmost likely in the initramfs actually02:19
Keybukafter you added it to the blacklist, did you update-initramfs -u ?02:19
TheMusoNo. I will try that. Thats a good point.02:19
Keybukthat'd be my bet02:20
TheMusoYou're probably right.02:20
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sebestjdub, i understand that requiring root priv, helps to keep the installation clean, i just thought, it mays be interesting to be able to install simple app without root access02:20
jdubit woudl be interesting02:20
jdubat some stage02:20
jdubperhaps02:20
jdubbut you'd be tossing out package management to a large degree02:21
ograwe could just go the lindwos path and only have root :)02:21
jdubso we'd be putting ourselves in the same position that apple wants to get out of02:21
sebestjdub: yes i guess it wasn't a goal of apt, so it would require major changes02:21
zakamehmm something like firefox extensions (sorry I'm still sharpening)02:21
sebestjdub: could you explain this point?02:21
Keybukzakame: the blacklist files only get used by modprobe when expanding hardware aliases02:21
sebestjdub: about apple02:22
Keybuke.g. modprobe pci:v000010DEd*sv*sd*bc03sc00i00*  (with the *s expanded)02:22
zakamehmmm....02:22
jdubthey've painted themselves into a non-package-managed corner02:22
jduband now they're wondering what to do02:22
Keybukif anything calls modprobe nvidia (or insmod nvidia) explicitly, then that bypasses the blacklist02:22
TheMusoKeybuk: Indeed it was the initramfs. Thanks. I would have tried that eventually. :)02:22
sebestjdub: what are their issues?02:23
sebestupdating?02:23
sebestdependencies?02:23
KeybukI've tried fairly hard to find all the modprobe calls and add "-b" (check blacklist) to them, but there are other that escape me02:23
jdubsebest: complete lack of package management for the system and for applications02:23
KeybukTheMuso: nah, you'd've installed a new kernel eventually and wondered why it magically fixed itself <g>02:23
jdubupdates to the system are cpio blobs spewed onto the filesystem02:23
jdubetc02:23
sebestjdub, i can understanf it's an issue for the base system, but for apps like itunes, gaim, and so on?02:24
jdubtotally unmanaged02:24
Keybuk/opt/itunes /opt/gaim :)02:24
TheMusoI just wish I didn't have to blacklist a controller module just so I could use stupid USB devices that try and fake themselves as being 2.0 devices which causes them to not register as storage devices.02:24
KeybukTheMuso: heh02:25
sebestjdub, yes i see, they need to find a good balance between ease of use and managability02:25
TheMusoIf one inserts them when Windows is running, Windows says they could perform faster etc etc.02:25
pittihmm, no daily ppc live CD today?02:26
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pitti... or in the last two days02:26
Keybukjdub: tbh, dpkg isn't *much* more clever than unpacking cpio blobs over the file system02:26
Keybukexcept it does clean up stuff that was in the last blob but not in the new one02:27
Keybuksorta, partially, sometimes02:27
jdubKeybuk: at least there's sane management going on behind the scenes02:27
Keybukyeah02:27
Keybukthere's some attempt to make sure you don't have eight programs all wanting different versions of the same .so02:27
ograKeybuk, hey, thats proven to work by M$ :P02:28
KeybukI do quite like the idea of app-in-a-dir though02:28
Keybuknautilus could be trained to recognise them, and then run $appdir/script with PATH and LD_LIBRARY_PATH set to look inside and stuff02:29
jdubKeybuk: baby jesus is frowning02:29
sebestKeybuk: i think that's what apple do more or less02:29
Keybukjdub: it's not bad02:29
Keybuksuch things would be limited to user home dirs and /opt02:29
Keybukeasy to clean up (just delete the dir)02:30
sebestKeybuk, looks like "staw"02:30
Keybuknot heard of that02:30
Keybukthe way Apps worked in Risc OS is vaguely in my mind here02:30
sebeststow02:30
Keybuk(apps were directories whose name began with !02:31
Keybuke.g. you'd have !Gaim02:31
sebestKeybuk, that's a gnu project02:31
Keybukinside that w02:31
sebestKeybuk, http://www.gnu.org/software/stow/02:31
Keybukas the special file !Boot that set up the icons and file manager behaviour02:31
sebestGNU Stow is a program for managing the installation of software packages, keeping them separate (/usr/local/stow/emacs vs. /usr/local/stow/perl, for example) while making them appear to be installed in the same place (/usr/local).02:31
Keybukand !Run that was run when the icon was double-clicked02:31
Keybukyou'd usually have !Sprites (icons) etc. as well02:32
Keybukand everything else for the app was in the directory)02:32
torkelwhats wrong with ./configure --prefix=$HOME/itunes && make && make install ? :-)02:32
Keybuksebest: isn't that just the symlink-masher ?02:32
Keybuktorkel: mv itunes ../stuff02:32
sebestKeybuk, yes somehow 02:32
Keybuksebest: so not the same, really02:32
sebestKeybuk, i think that your idea is what apple does02:33
sebestyou think that you drag and drop a file (the application) but in fact it's a folder, with all the needed ressource for the application02:33
Keybukyeah02:34
sebestand the equivalent of nautilus managed it so when you double click on the folder it executes a script to start the apps02:34
infinityDoes this system have any concept of dependencies, or is everything self-contained and statically compiled?02:35
sebestinfinity, it's not statically compiled as far as i know02:36
Keybukself-contained or static in general on Risc OS02:36
Keybukit wasn't really great on dynamic linking02:36
sebestbut there is not really a problem of dependencies because there is only one MacOsX02:37
KeybukKinnison's partner will no doubt leap in and bite my balls off and tell the world that Risc OS had the BEST DAMNED linker on the planet, but nobody ever used it, or something02:37
sebestyou just have to say "requive macosx versionb x.y)02:37
infinitysebest: Unless you need to depend on another third party package, or something.02:37
sebestinfinity, yes true02:37
infinitysebest: Then, I guess, you get permission to ship their with yours, or pray that users are smart enough to jump through hoops...02:37
Keybukinfinity: those are what you stick in your app-dir02:38
Keybukthis is not that different to how they try and ship ooo.o now02:38
sebestKeybuk,  you can put them anywhere02:38
Keybuk"mommy! why does openoffice's source package contain a copy of libc?"02:38
Keybuksebest: I do hope you were channelling Sarah Michelle-Gellar then02:38
TreenaksKeybuk: doko's your MUM?02:38
infinityOpenOffice's distribution rollup is scary.02:38
=== Treenaks wonders if there's emacs source in there somewhere, too
sebestKeybuk, what do you mean?02:39
Keybuksebest: Cruel Intentions ... "you can put it anywhere" ... etc.02:40
sebestah02:40
sebestok :)02:40
zakameTreenaks: lol02:40
KinnisonKeybuk: he says there's no such thing as Risc OS, but that RISC OS's linker was shite02:41
sebestKeybuk, i didn't see it in english ;)02:41
KeybukKinnison: I'm not going to bow down to the authorised spelling of a company that couldn't spell "disk"02:43
jdubKeybuk: j00 are teh flamebait!02:45
KinnisonKeybuk: well, I can see where the confusion comes from for you. I mean, a RiscPC runs RISC OS, as does a RiscStation. But RISC/os ran on MIPS based systems02:50
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MidMarkHi people <Kamping_Kaiser> sent me here because I was having an hard disk failure with lost of boot with ubuntu 5.10 fully updated03:04
MidMarkyesterday all filesystem of my ubuntu 5.10 structure goes in failure, fortunatelly I have backupped all my data with flight 6 live cd, the hard disk isn't broken (deep test result are ok), but how is it possible that failure? Bug? Is there a chance to view some logs and find the bug ot the problem?03:05
jdubwhat's the libmysqlclient15off stuff?03:06
MidMarkprobably if there are some bugs in ext3 (the filesystem) need to be investigated and fixed... helps is very appreciated03:07
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TreenaksMidMark: bugs in ext3? like what?03:07
MidMarkit seems strange that my filesystem was broken without an hard disk failure, so I've thought an ext3 butg03:08
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MidMarkthe problem was: I have started my notebook: a forced filesystem check was started, then stops and asked a manual fsck03:09
MidMarkafter done the fsck a lot of problems were recognized and a lot of dirs goes in lost+found, dirs like: /var /etc and others03:10
MidMarkof course ubuntu 5.10 won't boot anymore03:10
MidMarkso I'm asking if there are some logs I can view to investigate the problem, if it wasn't a bug I'll go out immediately03:11
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mjg59MidMark: /var/log/messages may provide an indication of filesystem corruption03:14
mjg59But if there is any, it may well be caused by hardware failure of some sort (not necessarily in the disk)03:15
MidMarkmjg59: thanx now I'm seeing it, but which different failure can cause filesystem corruption?03:16
KamionMidMark: the disk suddenly deciding that it didn't like the concept of actually retaining data any more, would be a favourite one03:17
Kamionhard disks are far from perfect03:17
mjg59MidMark: Bad CPU, bad memory, bad power supply...03:17
Kamionif the data it happens not to want to retain is in the middle of your filesystem's directory indexes, well ...03:17
Kamionand the controller might *now* have realised that it can't use those blocks any more03:18
Kamion(so a test would be fine)03:18
MidMarkkamion: the hard disk seems ok, I have done a deep analysis with Hitachi software specific03:18
Kamionbut as mjg59 says, a failure in any part of your system between you and the disk could cause problems03:18
MidMarkmjg59: the notebook seems all ok, and was ok right now. Now is running flight 6 live cd... you are thinking a temporary failure?03:19
Kamionext3 bugs are possible, but in general ext3 is used because it's exceptionally reliable03:19
mjg59MidMark: An individual sector can go bad. The next time you try to write it'll remap it, but that means the original data is lost03:19
mjg59However, a test will then report fine03:19
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zulmvo: ping03:20
mvozul: pong03:20
zulmvo: what change did you make to grub that caused the bug reports?03:21
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bddebianfabbione: ping?03:21
mvozul: I restored save-defaults and updatedefaultentry03:22
mvozul: if it causes too much trouble we should revert it (both changes taken from debian)03:22
zulmvo: i think it might be causing problems by the looks of the bug reports..03:23
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mvozul: what bug ids in particular? 03:24
zuluh...gimme a sec..03:24
mvothanks03:24
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MidMarkmjg59: this is messages log file http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/1159303:25
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MidMarkthe problem is failure was yesterday not 4th of april03:26
zulmvo: 38182 for one03:26
mjg59MidMark: That suggests that the failure wasn't logged03:27
MidMarkmjg59: damn, so there is no way to understand the problem?03:29
mvozul: I'm investigation this one currently. the patches *should* be harmless and do nothing to a default configuraton. but I may well have overlooked something :/03:29
zulmvo: ok...good to know..03:30
Kamionmvo: I think we should consider syncing to current Debian grub03:30
Kamionwell, merging with03:30
Kamionthere are a number of fixes that are essentially stabilisation of 0.9703:30
mvoKamion: yes, it seems to me like we already took a lot of them03:32
mvoKamion: so it's probably better to go all the way03:32
mjg59MidMark: I'm afraid so03:38
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MidMarkmjg59: thanx anyway for your time03:38
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jonohey03:40
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SeveasTreenaks, #ubuntu-nl misses you 03:49
HiddenWolfYeah, we do. :)03:50
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Kamionheh, pitti is about to run into the batch of espresso bugs I'm fixing right now, I'm betting03:58
mdkeis gnome-xchat configured to have an entry in the server list for Ubuntu which automatically joins #ubuntu? sorry to ask, haven't got a dapper system on me03:58
mdkexchat-gnome*03:58
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ograhas anybody an idea what patchsystem is used in ppp ? (i see a ton of patches in debian/patches and need to disable one) there is no dependency on any patch system in the control file ...04:00
ograand rules doesnt have anything patch related either ....04:01
ogra(at least grep retuns nothing)04:01
ogra*returns04:01
dholbachmight be those are simply applied patches04:02
ograbut how ? 04:02
ograthere is no patch command anywhere04:02
ograoh, you mean manually applied to the orig.tar.gz ?04:03
dholbachto the diff.gz?04:04
ograhmm ...04:04
=== ogra looks
dholbachif there's no patch system, i usually apply the patch and put it to debian/applied-patches, so people can extract it easier04:04
seb128mdke: around?04:04
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ograbtw, dont look at this debian/patches dir in ppp, you'll surely go blind, its a mess04:05
rcaskey_has there been any talk of applying the apparmor patch in dapper+1?04:05
jdubthere are way more enjoyable things you can do to go blind04:05
ograyeah04:05
ograindeed :)04:05
ograbut mdz did the dancing dervish on malone and assigned alotta bugs to me04:06
ograso i somehow need to fix them and try to not go blind04:06
mdkeseb128, briefly04:07
seb128mdke: patch is by Don Scorgie right?04:07
seb128mdke: since that's you who sent it, to get the changelog credit correctly :p04:07
mdkeseb128, yes, except the strings, which are by the documentation team04:07
mdkefine, credit is definitely his :)04:07
seb128"patch by Don Scorgie, description by Matthew East"04:08
seb128is that fine with you? :)04:08
seb128I'm using your patch description for the changelog :p04:08
jsgotangcolol04:08
mdkeseb128, "patch by Don Scorgie" is fine :)04:08
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pitti_live /msg nickserv link pitti pitti_live04:10
pitti_liveoops, sorry04:10
Kamion14:58 < Kamion> heh, pitti is about to run into the batch of espresso bugs I'm fixing right now, I'm betting04:10
pitti_liveKamion: believe it or not, this time I installed on /dev/hda2 instead of /dev/hdc2, and it didn't crash :)04:11
Kamionpitti_live: bet it crashed later04:11
Kamionnetwork configuration had a bit of a whoopsie04:11
Kamionas did localechooser04:11
pitti_liveKamion: I'm 50% into 'installing system' now, that's way more than I'm used to :)04:11
Kamionchmod +x /usr/lib/espresso/localechooser/* quickly and it'll get further than it otherwise would04:11
Kamionbut will probably still crash at network config, sorry, can't fix that on the fly04:12
pitti_livesure, no problem04:12
pitti_liveI actually intended to play a bit with hda2 vs. hdc2 to (a) check that 'doesn't install grub' bug and (b) that libparted related crash04:12
seb128mdke: does that patch includes your 04_text_color.patch change too?04:13
ogradholbach, ha ! there is a debian/sys-build.mk ....04:14
=== ogra shudders about that package
pitti_liveWow, "Installing language packs..." -- shiny04:15
dholbachogra: ouch... i converted one of the gnome packages that has that kind of stuff in Debian to CDBS :-p04:15
Kamionogra: oh, that's DBS04:15
ograi doubt i can do that with ppp04:16
ograKamion, oh, why doesnt it just use dbs then ...04:16
ogralooks really messy04:16
Kamionbecause it probably dates from before dbs was packaged04:16
ograah04:16
Kamionlike dpatch, it used to just be copied into whatever packages used it04:17
pitti_liveKamion: at which point is grub supposed to be installed?04:17
Kamionpitti_live: near the end, just after network config04:17
pitti_liveKamion: I have a dialog "Installing language packs" -- "90%" -- "Configuring hardware"04:18
pitti_live:)04:18
pitti_liveah, it complains about not being able to install grub04:18
Kamionyeah, I just noticed that it's not dealing with the title change correctly04:18
TreenaksFinalizing settings.... [wait]  Applying settings....04:18
pitti_liveKamion: ok, I won't file a bug then04:18
Kamionhuh, it got past network config?04:18
mdkeseb128, no, I don't think so04:18
Treenaks(sorry, that was what a Windows installer told TMM once ;))04:18
pitti_liveKamion: I didn't see any status message about network04:18
Kamionpitti_live: go ahead and file a bug anyway if you would, I haven't nailed it down yet so I might forget04:18
pitti_liveKamion: I had langpack configuartion, then hardware, now boot loader04:18
pitti_liveKamion: sure04:18
Kamionpitti_live: maybe you have a sufficiently old CD not to have network config, then04:19
Kamionwhich is fine04:19
mdkeseb128, if unsure, ask on the bug: I've subscribed Don04:19
pitti_liveKamion: hm, today's live04:19
TMMwindows server 2003 to be exact04:19
Kamionpitti_live: might not have picked up yesterday's espresso uploads ...04:19
TMMand it didn't end there :)04:19
pitti_liveindeed04:19
TMMthe settings where finalized, applied, written and finished04:19
Kamionoh, live CD builds appear to be disabled04:20
Kamioninfinity: <poke>04:20
pitti_liveKamion: yes, ppc is missing entirely04:20
Kamionsorry, I mean live filesystem04:20
Kamionpitti_live: separate problem04:20
pitti_liveKamion: strange, the espresso log says that it couldn't resolve the host name when it wanted to install grub04:20
Kamionpitti_live: yep, it's trying to upgrade04:21
Kamionpitti_live: fixed in newer versions of espresso04:21
pitti_livecool04:21
infinityKamion: Yes'm?04:21
Kamioninfinity: please re-enable live filesystem builds04:21
infinityKamion: Oh, right, cronjobs.  Whee.04:21
infinityKamion: On it.04:21
bddebianHeya infinity.  fabbione is a hard person to get a hold of :-)04:22
seb128mdke: I've figured, the toc2html.xsl "text-decoration: none; color:" change was dupped04:22
seb128mdke: it builds now :)04:22
infinityKamion: Done.04:22
Kamionpitti_live: the powerpc thing is due to temporary directories somehow ending up as group warthogs; fixing04:23
mdkeseb128, lovely, thanks for doing that04:28
seb128mdke: np, thank you for coordinating that :)04:29
Kamionpitti_live: missing powerpc fixed for the next round of builds04:29
pitti_livecool04:29
bddebianSince I am not getting an answer in #u-motu or #u-bugs, what person/team should I move a main bug to?  It's assigned to MOTU's currently but it's a main package?04:31
Kamionbddebian: "nobody"04:32
Kamionmain bugs shouldn't be assigned to a team unless that team's actually working on it04:33
bddebianKamion: OK, thx04:34
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bddebianThough the supplied patch does work :-)04:34
pitti_livebddebian: which bug in particular?04:34
bddebianMalone bug 458704:34
UbugtuMalone bug 4587 in bittornado "[PATCH]  bittornado absolute icon path and specs problems" [Normal,Rejected]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/458704:34
pitti_liveoh, rejected04:36
pitti_livehave to reboot to get espresso to a clean state again, brb04:37
bddebianRejected?04:37
bddebianOh rejected for Dapper but open in Ubuntu04:37
Treenaksah, so Seveas' bot is buggy ;)04:38
Seveashmm04:38
Seveasmeh04:38
Seveaswill fix04:39
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jcoleare there any open source launchpad equivs out there?04:43
jcolebetter yet, is launchpad open source?04:43
fabbionebddebian: pong?04:43
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pitti_livebah, yay xchat-gnome04:51
BenCis there any reason that devices like /dev/usb/hiddev0 are not actually there?04:52
BenCusbhid is loaded, but hiddev# devices are not in the device tree04:53
sladenjcole: LP isn't Free Software yet.  it will be one day.  When it has so much market share that nothing else can compete...  Sourceforge/etc are the closest elsewhere.04:55
jcolesladen: ok, i understand, thanks04:55
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jcolesladen: simple question (not), at my company, we use http://linuxcoe.sourceforge.net/ to net-install various distros... right now, we're trying to figure out a way so people can contribute their own packages...05:00
jcolesladen: we were thinking about something along the lines of a user only contributing a source package, and then have an auto-build system that creates binary packages for the various distros... any suggestions?05:00
joelbryanHi, anyone please check out Bug #3842605:00
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UbugtuMalone bug 38426 in ubuntu-meta ubuntu-desktop "A software to get live chat support in #ubuntu." [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/3842605:00
sebestit seems bootcamp boots ubuntu too05:04
sebesthttp://theweeklyrant.com/article/8/news-apple-bootcamp-boots-linux05:05
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jcolesladen: i've mentioned it here before, this is an example -> http://www.instalinux.com/cgi-bin/coe_bootimage.cgi05:05
sladenjcole: in theory you can create deriviatives very easily under launchpad.  You could ask on #launchpad what the current status of that is05:07
sladenjcole: who are "people", are they people internally to your company?  You can do a fair amount just by rebuilding the current install CDs and tweaking the pre-seed lists (which I think is what linuxcoe might be doing anyway)05:08
jcolesladen: so, launchpad is the closest tool for the type of thing we are looking for?05:08
bddebianfabbione: Ahh, sorry.  How is your imake/xmkmf foo? :-)05:09
fabbionebddebian: so what is the next question?05:10
jcolesladen: yes, what also makes it complicated is the combinations of distros and architectures05:10
fabbionebddebian: just ask please :)05:10
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jcolesladen: ya, i'm the one making the ubuntu netinstall cds05:10
bddebianfabbione: I think ivtools is exporting the wrong XCONFDIR path which is breaking the mxv build but I'm not getting it to take my changes on building ivtools05:10
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Kamionsebest: as previously mentioned, yeah, the installer boots under it, but you won't be able to install a bootloader and thereby complete the install05:11
jcolesladen: i've created one for x86, amd64, ia64, and hppa05:11
Kamionsebest: so it's fine for live CDs if you don't want to install them05:11
fabbionebddebian: ok.. put the source somewhere with a proper explanation of what needs to be changed.. i will look at it when i have time05:11
jcolesladen: also used bits from ports05:11
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sladensebest: my hunch is that it's checking for an NTFS partition and knows specifically how to boot that from the hard-disk05:13
sebesti saw that mjg59 worked on getting ubuntu working on mac hardware, how is the bootloader handled?05:14
sebestit uses something like elilo?05:14
Kamionsebest: elilo, yes05:15
Kamionsebest: once you've booted using bootcamp, you can't talk to EFI to install elilo05:15
sebestKamion, does elilo support dualboot with macosx?05:15
Kamionsebest: I don't know; don't see why not though05:15
Kamionsebest: (I think the above claim about installing elilo may be a bit of a simplification, but it's certainly true in the short term at least)05:16
bddebianfabbione: Actually I think my only problem is that buildpackage re-extracts the tarball everytime and overwrites my changes.  Does that mean I have to add a patching system and a patch?05:16
sebestKamion, in the long term it may be interesting to support bootcamp for the virtualisation features: running both os side by side05:16
Kamionsebest: if you're willing to install the bootloader yourself, then there's no problem really supporting bootcamp05:17
Kamionalthough apparently their VGA implementation isn't all that great05:17
fabbionebddebian: eh.. what do you think?05:17
bddebianfabbione: I don't think, that's my problem :)05:17
bddebianOK, sorry05:17
fabbione:)05:17
sebestKamion, that's still a beta, things may change until they releas it in 6 months or more05:18
bddebianFuck, I hate deviating that far from the Debian package :-(05:18
infinitybddebian: Why on earth would you need to add a patch system?05:18
Kamionsebest: sure, but to some extent we have to deal with what we've got now - and it *would* be better to get away from the legacy stuff if we can05:18
infinitybddebian: Show me your current patch against the package.05:18
bddebianinfinity: Because it doesn't have one?05:18
ograbddebian, for some i'd love to just redo them ....05:18
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=== ogra is just totally shocked by the ppp package
infinitybddebian: You don't need a patch system to patch a package.  What do you think difd.gz is all about?05:18
bddebianogra: You should see maelstrom :_)05:19
infinitydiff, too.05:19
bddebianinfinity: Oh, I don't know about diff.gz Hmm05:19
bddebianOh well yes I do05:19
ograbddebian, thanks, i already have to wear my xray proof glasses to no go blind here ;)05:19
bddebianinfinity: But dpkg-buildpackage overwites my source changes anytime I run it05:20
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Kamionbddebian: then either you're doing it wrong, or the package is overwriting stuff, not dpkg-buildpackage05:20
bddebianKamion: The package is yes05:21
Kamionif you're editing in build-tree/, then it's probably got a patch system and you just haven't found it yet :)05:21
bddebianfabbione: One quick question.  SHouldn't XCONFDIR be /etc/X11/config rather than /usr/lib/X11/config (which doesn't exist)05:26
fabbionebddebian: i think so ..05:27
bddebianBah, you folks are useless.. ;-P05:29
bddebianJust kidding05:29
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jsgotangcolol05:29
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=== bddebian will become even more hated
bddebianHeya LaserJock05:31
LaserJockhi bddebian 05:31
LaserJockI can't imagine you being hated at all :-)05:31
bddebianLaserJock: Hang out in #d-d for a little bit ;-P05:32
mvolol05:32
LaserJockoh, I don't think so d-d (IRC and ML) scare me05:32
LaserJockI'm glad d-d wasn't my first look at Debian. I would have stayed with Gentoo ;-)05:33
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jsgotangcoits a nice cave indeed05:38
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bddebianDamnit, I'm going to have to strip ivtools again :(05:45
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infinityKamion: Care to do some NBS removals?... The out-of-date output is getting rather messy (kernels, LRM, libsexy, d-i-utils..)05:52
bandinimmh pdftops from poppler-utils seems to produce broken .ps files. Anyone else seeing this? (haven't found anything on bugzilla.fd.org & launchpad)05:53
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Kamioninfinity: I would but archive-cruft-check is broken at the moment05:54
infinityKamion: Oh.  Then never mind. :)  I can read around the cruft.05:55
Kamioninfinity: I'll try to do some slightly more manually checked ones once I've finished caning my network connection with a d-i daily upload05:55
infinityKamion: One simple removal you could do is the 'xmkmf' source package from universe (and corresponding binary).. It's been eaten by imake in main.05:56
infinityKamion: Was causing some sketchy FTBFSs that I had to track down, due to the whacky conflicts and provides going on between imake and xmkmf.05:56
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bddebianfabbione, or anyone else brave enough to looK:  Here is what I am trying to do to ivtools:  http://www2.bddebian.com:8000/packages/ubuntu/ivtools/ivtools-1.1.3.diff06:00
infinitybddebian: And which part isn't sticking?  The last bit?06:03
bddebianinfinity: The src/scripts/ivmkmf stuff afaict06:04
azeemmaybe that file gets generated during build?06:06
infinityMost likely.  Looking anyway.06:06
=== infinity freshens a chroot and grabs build-deps.
Kamioninfinity: ok, that's not an NBS so wouldn't have been caught by the cruft-checker anyway; will do after this publisher run06:07
infinityI wonder if it's bad that I'm still working at 2am.06:07
infinityKamion: Yeah, I know it's not NBS, it was an afterthought. :)06:07
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bddebianinfinity: No, it's great :-)06:12
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Toadstoolheya here, sorry to bother you with a very low priority task, but anyone to check and maybe upload the latest debdiff I added to bug 36505?06:15
UbugtuMalone bug 36505 in lintian "Ubuntu Lintian shouldn't do the nmu checks" [Wishlist,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/3650506:15
Toadstoolit's an ubuntu lintian "customization"06:16
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infinitybddebian: I'm not sure what you were doing wrong, but when I apply your patch to a freshly-unpacked package, build a source package, then do a binary build from that, it works great.  Want me to sign and upload based on what I have here? :)06:17
bddebianinfinity: What does /usr/lib/ivtools/config/config.mk look like?06:19
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infinitybddebian: Wrong, in several special ways.06:20
infinityXCONFIGDIR = /usr/lib/X11/config06:20
infinityABSTOP = /home/adconrad/foo/ivtools-1.1.306:20
bddebianYep :-)06:20
infinityBut that's has nothing to do with the include directories in that other file you messed with, afaict.06:20
bddebianXCONFIGDIR should get set to /etc/X11/config06:21
bddebianEven if I run xmkmf and imake I still get that crap06:21
infinityJust means your imake template isn't getting used.06:22
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infinitybddebian: Okay, I think I spot the issue here, but I also need to get some sleep and not look at this when I'm in a haze of confusion.06:26
infinitybddebian: Can you poke me tomorrow, and I'll fix it up?06:26
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bddebianinfinity: Of course, thanks man06:31
mdzKeybuk: yes, I don't much care for the idea of bugs assigned to teams06:33
mdzKeybuk: subscription leaves assignment open for an "I'll handle this request" workflow06:33
mdzKeybuk: of course, some people ignore the instructions and assign to the team anyway06:33
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Kamioninfinity: xmkmf removed06:35
bddebianremoved?06:35
bddebianinfinity: BTW, let me know if there is any way I can help the X Swat team with bugs even though I'm not a main uploader06:36
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danimoKeybuk: around?06:37
Kamionbddebian: superseded by imake06:38
bddebianKamion: Really?  I thought you still needed to run xmkmf prior to imake? I.E. xmkmf -> Imakefile -> imake -> Makefile ?06:39
Kamionbddebian: xmkmf is in the imake package now06:40
Kamionso there is no longer a need for the xmkmf package06:40
Kamionsee infinity's request above06:40
bddebianAh, OK, sorry06:40
ograoh, youre on a removal quest ? 06:40
Kamionogra: not especially, but do you have something urgent?06:41
ograthe ltsp-client-builder and power-manager sources could go as well ...06:41
ogranot urgent 06:41
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Kamionogra: can you give a reason for each, please? "superseded by <some other package>" is a good reason, for example06:41
KamionI need it for the record06:41
ograok, ltsp-client-builder is included in ltsp since dapper 06:42
Kamionogra: the ltsp-client-builder source went away ages ago06:42
ograhmm, LP still shows them both for me ...06:42
Kamionlike pre-soyuz06:42
Kamionltsp-client-builder |    0.1.0-5 |        breezy | source06:42
Kamionltsp-client-builder |    0.1.0-5 | breezy/main/debian-installer | all06:42
Kamionltsp-client-builder |       0.84 | dapper/main/debian-installer | all06:42
Kamionhttps://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/ltsp-client-builder says "removed"06:42
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ograok06:42
Kamionand if you're looking at https://launchpad.net/people/ogra/+packages then it says "Ubuntu Breezy"06:43
bddebianHmm, what to "fix" now then06:43
Kamionogra: ok, what was power-manager replaced by?06:43
ograpower-manager was the helper for gnome-powermanager before we had it integrated properly06:43
ograits superseded by gdm or the libpam stuff mjg59 added, as you like 06:44
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Kamionlibpam-foreground?06:45
ograyeah06:45
ogracouldnt remember the right name 06:45
pittiugh, that espresso bug did a fairly good job of ruining my boot loader :/06:45
Kamionok, in future please try to make it your responsibility to provide these details, I don't want to have to do lots of research every time06:46
RiddellKamion: kde espresso is good to merge if you want06:46
dholbachKamion: are you removing stuff from the archive atm?06:46
ografirst g-p-m used gdm instead of the power-manager backend, laetr libpam-foreground06:46
ogra*later06:46
Kamiondholbach: apparently so06:46
dholbachKamion: could you please remove evolution-caldav? it was merged into evolution-data-server.06:46
Kamionogra: power-manager done06:46
ograthanks :)06:46
ograKinnison, would it be possible to have the release numbers instead of the release names in https://launchpad.net/people/ogra/+packages ? 06:47
Kamiondholbach: done06:48
dholbachKamion: merci06:48
Kinnisonogra: ask kiko06:48
ograsorting by distro release gets a bit unsorted since its alphabetical06:48
Kamiondholbach: would a replaces or provides or something somewhere on evolution-caldav be a good idea06:48
Kamion?06:48
ograKinnison, thanks... i'll wait until he drops the -zzz then :)06:48
Amaranthick, en_GB got into my /etc/environment again06:48
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dholbachKamion: hmmm - might be06:49
bddebianThe source packages for python2.3-* are pretty much gone from the archive correct?06:55
bddebianLike python2.3-numeric, etc06:55
dholbachmdke: the newest ubuntu-docs seem to have problems with scrollkeeper update processing06:56
bddebianOh, maybe they are from the python2.3 package06:56
mdkedholbach, I see it. making a note to fix it sometime06:57
dholbachok cool06:57
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bddebianHmm, have I gone over my quota of dumb questions for the day?07:02
azeemyou now have07:02
bddebianBah, crawl back to Debian azeem ;-P07:03
bddebianj/k07:03
azeemoh, I thought you were serious :P07:04
bddebianKamion: Is python2.3-numeric, et al completely gone from the archive?07:05
Kamionbddebian: if you want me to look things up for you, you need to be more specific than "et al", but yes, python2.3-numeric is no longer in dapper07:10
bddebianKamion: Sorry, I'm lookint at Malone bug 3762507:11
UbugtuMalone bug 37625 in matplotlib python2.3-matplotlib "python2.3-matplotlib has unavailable dependencies" [Major,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/3762507:11
zygahello07:13
bddebianHello zyga07:13
dokobddebian: either port it to 2.4, or you have to duplicate all the sources, i.e. copy the python-numarray source to python2.3-numarray and just build the 2.3 module07:13
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bddebiandoko: That was kind of what I was getting at I guess.  Is our "policy" that 2.3 just isn't "supported" any longer?07:14
dokobddebian: correct07:14
bddebianGreat, then I'll just remove the 2.3 deps, thanks07:14
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dborget merc available (ts2 only) but tell me early :>07:38
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joelbryanHow will I edit System > Help > stuff?07:45
pittiYAY SYNCS!!!07:47
jsgotangcogood night too07:51
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pefcan someone with main upload privileges have a look at this pbuilder bug ? a debdiff is provided :) #3845607:59
pef(thanks)08:00
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mdkejoelbryan, you can't edit it, it's provided by the ubuntu-docs package08:09
mdkejoelbryan, the links themselves are in gnome-panel08:10
ograyou could join the doctem to edit it :)08:10
ogra*docteam08:10
mdkeogra, our strings are freezing today :D08:10
ograoh ? why that ? 08:10
mdkewe want to allow more time for translation08:10
ograbut you are freezing before the UI08:11
ograthat can get complicated08:11
mdkeyes. if anything changes, it will be updated, and announced to the translators08:11
Kamionpef: uploaded, thanks; I've left the bug for you to close08:11
ograi.e. edubuntu hanst even remotely its final artwork08:11
bddebianAck, why did I pick an ace bug ugh08:11
ograall screenshots would be shallow 08:11
pefKamion: thank you :)08:11
mdkeogra, screenshots aren't strings. They aren't frozen. But anyway, we hardly use screenshots.08:12
ograah08:12
mdkeand edubuntu docs aren't frozen either08:12
KamionRiddell: merged and pushed, thanks; sorry for the delay, I got distracted by archive stuff08:16
ogramdke, i know ... i'll be the one who freezes them :)08:16
ograsince i write a bunch of them :)08:16
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mdkeogra, quite :)08:17
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ogra(in fact highvoltage writes the base and i just flesh it out a bit and fix ubuntu specifics in ltsp docs)08:18
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sivangKamion: ping, around?09:40
sivangKamion: how good is the support for NTFS resize in d-i currently ? 09:42
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=== sivang wonders where are everybody
Burgworksivang, ntfs is pretty good, provided the ntfs drive is not heavily fragmented09:53
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sivangBurgwork: cool, have you tried it yourself ? (finally got a GOOD t43p and I need to resize :) )09:56
Burgworksivang, not recently, but I did use it for the first install09:56
sivangBurgwork: Have you had free space on the drive with it?09:56
sivang(stupid preloaders consumed all the disk)09:57
Burgworksay again?09:57
sivangBurgwork: prior to resizing, have you had any free space unpartitioned from the NTFS partitoin?09:57
Burgworknope09:57
sivangBurgwork: cool then ;) let's see if it works well with dapper flight 6 09:58
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mrothwin 410:02
mrothwhoops :-)10:02
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jdongwhat does preload do in Dapper right now, if I were to install it?10:08
jdongI know in SUSE 10 it's used as an adaptive readahead and prefetcher for firefox, OOo, and system bootup (others, too)10:08
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Treenaksjdub: An image for your 'Ubuntu PowerPC CDs' quote: http://www.worth1000.com/emailthis.asp?entry=274562 10:16
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diemanhmm10:24
diemanit'd be fun to get my hands on a sun niagra t2000 box and host some of the ubuntu release bittorrents to see how it works out10:24
diemanif i could get sun to ship me one and get ubuntu on it ;)10:24
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KaiL_ALSA lib pcm_dmix.c:819:(snd_pcm_dmix_open) unable to open slave11:20
KaiL_what does that mean?11:20
sladenKaiL_: related to software mixing11:23
sladenplease file against alsa-utils11:23
KaiL_might also be some config remaining fom breezy times..?11:25
KaiL_eh, hoary11:25
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dholbachgood night guys11:31
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KaiL_sladen, dmix got automatically enabled on that update?11:46
KaiL_ah, gone..11:47
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