[12:04] <_TomB> I have a directory tmp/ with the files and directories in
[12:04] <Burgwork> jordi, pong
[12:05] <TheMuso> _TomB: What did you need to update?
[12:05] <_TomB> some casper scripts
[12:05] <TheMuso> _TomB: I suggest grabbing the source casper package, adding the scripts to that, rebuilding, and installing the casper package.
[12:06] <TheMuso> Then you need to update the initramfs of the kernel used on the live CD. It helps if you have the -386 kernel installed on your system.
[12:06] <_TomB> what's the easiest way to rebuild into a .deb?
[12:07] <TheMuso> _TomB: Grab the source, make the changes you want, and then in the main sorce directory, run dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot. Make sure you have casper's build dependancies as well as fakeroot installed.
[12:07] <Red_Herring> hey, anyone concidered adding easyubuntu to dapper by default?
[12:08] <Burgwork> Red_Herring, not for dapper. Something like easyubuntu would need to be discussed early
[12:08] <Red_Herring> hrm, couldnt it be concidered "polishing"?
[12:09] <Burgwork> Red_Herring, it is a significant new feature and is not polishing
[12:09] <Red_Herring> well, easyubuntu is already finished, if i am not mistaken
[12:10] <Red_Herring> i dont think it would be difficult to just add it to the start menu by default
[12:10] <Burgwork> Red_Herring, finished != integrated
[12:10] <Red_Herring> but ill take your word for it
[12:10] <Red_Herring> Burgwork: all it needs ot be "integrated" is to have a applications menu entry
[12:10] <Burgwork> Red_Herring, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/CommonInstallHook
[12:11] <jordi> Burgwork: hmm, want to test the Debian fix for your nano bug?
[12:11] <jordi> the Ubuntu package will need to be different, due to uvf
[12:12] <Burgwork> jordi, my nano bug?
[12:12] <jordi> the crontab editing thing
[12:12] <jordi> I think you reported it
[12:12] <Burgwork> jordi, was that a reportbug paste jobby?
[12:12] <jordi> oh, probably
[12:13] <Burgwork> ah
[12:13] <Burgwork> the email for the reporter is there
[12:13] <Red_Herring> has ANYONE taken any consideration on allowing the end user to install 3rd party apps that arent FOSS without all the terminal work?
[12:13] <Burgwork> Red_Herring, yes, via searching for them in Add/Remove or Synaptic
[12:14] <Red_Herring> Burgwork: uhh, they arent added by default, they are in the multiverse, and there still isnt java1.5 in the repos
[12:14] <Red_Herring> maybe the latest update in the past 10 days or so has changed that, but not since i used it last
[12:15] <Burgwork> Red_Herring, this is very much an understood problem and I understand it is annoying that the solution isn't here, but it is not going to happen for dapper
[12:15] <Red_Herring> so what was the "6 weeks for polishing" for?
[12:16] <Burgwork> fixing hte 9000 open bugs in Malone
[12:16] <Red_Herring> w/e, i can help w/ the next release, but i still think its not that hard to have easyubuntu installed by default, and to just add it to the menu 
[12:16] <Red_Herring> have it be dapper or the next release
[12:16] <Burgwork> sorry, make that 9500 open bugs
[12:17] <Red_Herring> Burgwork: hrm, so in the mean time, how hard is it for a guy to add it, im willing to do it myself, but i wanna know if anyone will take my idea seriously
[12:17] <Burgwork> Red_Herring, here are the steps that are needed to make Easy ubuntu be available in ubuntu
[12:18] <Burgwork> 1 - Package EasyUbuntu in .deb and get it into the repos
[12:18] <Burgwork> 2 - Fill out a MainInclusionReport to get it into main
[12:18] <Burgwork> 3 - ask the devs to add it the install cd
[12:18] <Red_Herring> and i got what? 8 weeks to do this?
[12:19] <Red_Herring> well, i know there is a freeze in the last few weeks or so
[12:19] <Red_Herring> so more like a month
[12:19] <Burgwork> sooner is better
[12:20] <Red_Herring> but is this idea gonna be taken seriously?
[12:20] <Burgwork> it would be great to get it packaged
[12:20] <Red_Herring> are there any serious problems that i dont know about?
[12:20] <Red_Herring> other than the ppc version doesnt have much features
[12:20] <_TomB> Thank you TheMuso 
[12:21] <Burgwork> Red_Herring, get it packaged and then we can have this dicussion again
[12:21] <Red_Herring> ... any ideas where i can get a howto on that?
[12:21] <Red_Herring> i have no experiance w/ packaging once so ever
[12:21] <Burgwork> Red_Herring, ask in #ubuntu-motu
[12:21] <Burgwork> they will get you going
[12:22] <Burgwork> nope
[12:22] <Burgwork> Red_Herring, you might also want to coordinate with this person http://forum.ubuntu-fr.org/viewtopic.php?id=31515
[12:24] <Red_Herring> thanks... i dont speak french
[12:24] <Burgwork> Red_Herring, that is a surmoutable problem
[12:25] <Red_Herring> google translator...
[12:26] <Red_Herring> so someone already made a package...
[12:27] <Red_Herring> that makes things exponentially easier
[12:27] <LaserJock> Red_Herring: where? and it might be better to move to -motu
[12:27] <Red_Herring> http://frazap.freehostia.com/easyubuntu_20060327.deb
[12:28] <Red_Herring> ok, but this is just an idea, i really should not be made responsible for maintaing anything
[01:56] <nekohayo> hey there, if I want to file a bug on the logout dialog, what is the package name?
[02:04] <sladen> nekohayo: I'm not actually sure.  Try gnome-panel
[02:05] <jdub> nekohayo: gnome-session
[02:06] <nekohayo> just to make sure: I'm not the only one that the logout dialog pops up when waking up from standby am I ?
[02:07] <sladen> nekohayo: even if you are, it's still a bug
[02:07] <jdub> nekohayo: hrm, interesting - do you go into suspend from the logout dialogue?
[02:07] <nekohayo> yes
[02:08] <nekohayo> filed as https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/gnome-session/+bug/38301
[02:08] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 38301 in gnome-session "logout dialog pops up when waking up from standby mode" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  
[02:08] <jdub> nekohayo: nice one - make sure to metnion that :)
[02:09] <nekohayo> just out of curiosity jdub, I remember hibernation working in breezy/hoary, and it doesn't anymore, is there a bug I can watch about this?
[02:09] <jdub> not sure
[02:10] <Chipzz> I have another nasty one
[02:10] <nekohayo> and... why can't I translate espresso in rosetta >_<?
[02:10] <Chipzz> hibernating *closes* your session
[02:10] <Chipzz> which is not at all what I want
[02:12] <nekohayo> I see parts of the graphical installer not being translated in French, I would like to be able to correct that :|
[02:14] <mjg59> nekohayo: Should work with the latest kernel
[02:14] <mjg59> Chipzz: Does it?
[02:15] <sladen> Chipzz: do you mean that it fails to unhibernate and gives you a fresh boot?
[02:15] <nekohayo> what do you mean mjg59 ? what should work? the standby bug? I'm fully up to date
[02:15] <jdub> Chipzz: ?! ouch
[02:16] <Amaranth> why can't laptops be smart and sleep until they run out of juice then hibernate?
[02:16] <sladen> nekohayo: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/dapper/+source/debian-installer/+pots/debian-installer/fr/+translate
[02:16] <mjg59> Amaranth: They will
[02:16] <mjg59> nekohayo: Hibernate
[02:16] <mjg59> nekohayo: As of today
[02:16] <mjg59> Amaranth: At least, most modern machines will
[02:17] <mjg59> Amaranth: They'll wake up when the battery becomes critical, at which point g-p-m will hibernate them
[02:17] <nekohayo> sladen: thanks. I was searching for "espresso"
[02:17] <Amaranth> mjg59: great, we can remove "Hibernate" from the "end of session" dialog then ;)
[02:18] <jdub> Amaranth: no, sometimes you really want to know that you can hibernate and pull the plug out of the wall (or the battery out of the laptop)
[02:18] <Amaranth> hmm...work on alacarte or go read my new book
[02:18] <Amaranth> jdub: ah, good point
[02:20] <sladen> nekohayo: actually it might be.  Did you use the LiveCD to install?  In which case, yes, it would be espresso-gtk I think
[02:21] <nekohayo> yeah I'm talking about the livecd
[02:21] <nekohayo> but when looking at the "software list" in rosetta, I ctrl-F "espres" and nothing matches
[02:29] <Chipzz> not a fresh boot, but a fresh session
[02:30] <Chipzz> it only happens when I use the gnome menu
[02:30] <Chipzz> not when I use the power manager applet right click
[02:30] <mjg59> Chipzz: Oh, right
[02:30] <mjg59> The logout menu signals in the wrong way
[02:31] <nekohayo> hey something is itching me: why isn't the "system" menu in the gnome menu bar applet never translated? I think I saw it translated in stable releases, but it always reverts to "system" when in a development ubuntu, is there a reason ?_?
[02:31] <nekohayo> why is*
[02:31] <Amaranth> nekohayo: well, it's an ubuntu-only modification
[02:31] <Chipzz> mjg59: not unavoidable (just use the power manager), but quite annoying as the power manager is not easily keyboard accesible
[02:31] <Amaranth> nekohayo: the translation for it probably keeps coming up fuzzy or something
[02:32] <nekohayo> it's ubuntu-done? not upstream?
[02:32] <Amaranth> "System" is, yes
[02:32] <Amaranth> in upstream GNOME it's called "Desktop"
[02:32] <mjg59> Chipzz: As I said, it's a bug in the logout dialog (rather than hibernate)
[02:33] <Chipzz> yea, slight misphrasing on my part
[02:33] <nekohayo> o_O I never knew upstream called it desktop... now that's surprising me
[03:09] <spiv> Bug 36512 is filed against alsa-driver, but it looks like maybe it's a kernel issue -- certainly kernel updates affect it.  Should it be reassigned?
[03:09] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 36512 in alsa-driver "Dell Inspiron 630m sound is broken" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/36512
[03:14] <crimsun> spiv: thanks, I'll triage it.
[03:14] <crimsun> (and do the necessary git work to push)
[03:16] <spiv> crimsun: Thanks!
[06:08] <lamont> it appears that if sw raid decides to do recovery at boot (because I rebooted the machine during recovering the array), then evms just doesn't start.  Once the recovery finishes, rebooting the machine makes things happy again.  joy, joy
[08:08] <infinity> Keybuk: Your dpkg upload is FTBFS.
[08:09] <infinity> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/dpkg/1.13.11ubuntu3
[08:10] <Keybuk> sweet
[08:11] <Keybuk> will just bounce that back to the Nexenta guys
[08:12] <Keybuk> heh
[08:12] <Keybuk> in fact
[08:12] <Keybuk> let's just reject that
[08:13] <Keybuk> next time I'll read a patch before applying it :)
[08:13] <jdub> !!!
[08:13] <jdub> ;-)
[08:13] <Keybuk> *shrug* mdz did his "URGENT! MAJOR! DAPPER 6.06!" thing on it, so I assumed he'd read it <g>
[08:14] <mbiebl> Keybuk, hi. I'm the Debian co-maintainer of NM and wanted to discuss the handling of devices defined in /e/n/i with you.
[08:14] <mbiebl> Got a minute?
[08:14] <Keybuk> sure
[08:14] <Keybuk> let me just get some razor blades
[08:15] <Keybuk> I love NM
[08:15] <Keybuk> oh yes
[08:15] <mbiebl> Your current policy seems to handle all devices not listed in /e/n/i, and all with dhcp+auto.
[08:15] <pitti> Good morning
[08:16] <Keybuk> that's right
[08:16] <Keybuk> or, to put it another way
[08:16] <pitti> Hey Keybuk 
[08:16] <mbiebl> Which seems a bit strange to me, because devices with auto are ifup with -a (/e/i/networking)
[08:16] <Keybuk> all devices that the user hasn't provided some kind of configuration for, that would conflict with whatever NM tried to do with it
[08:16] <mbiebl> Wouldn't noauto+dhcp make more sense?
[08:16] <Keybuk> no
[08:16] <Keybuk> because noauto means "I don't want this device brought up"
[08:16] <pitti> it would for ethernet cards in principle
[08:16] <pitti> but the user has to configure that manually
[08:17] <Keybuk> yes, auto+dhcp is brought up by udev, but not necessarily on the right wireless network
[08:17] <Keybuk> it's NM's job to fix that later
[08:17] <mbiebl> Hm, but so the device is handled by /etc/init.d/networking and NM?
[08:17] <Keybuk> no, by udev and NM in Ubuntu
[08:17] <Keybuk> bit inelegant, I agree
[08:17] <Keybuk> but users never really notice
[08:18] <mbiebl> Do you think, we should introduce a new keyword besides manual/static and dhcp?
[08:18] <Keybuk> no
[08:18] <Keybuk> because then we're getting as confusing as hell
[08:18] <Keybuk> I think we should throw away ifupdown and admit that it just doesn't work these days
[08:18] <Keybuk> there are much more interesting problems with it
[08:18] <mbiebl> ;-)
[08:19] <Keybuk> like the fact that it doesn't understand that dhclient can cause a network to go down when a lease is revoked, etc.
[08:20] <pitti> Keybuk: yesterday night I wrote a patch for n-m to make it work without wpasupplicant (w. trashes my Airport Extreme, and in general it's not really requrired); any objections if I upload that?
[08:20] <Keybuk> pitti: nope, none
[08:21] <mbiebl> Ok, for now I will choose the same behaviour for the Debian packages: auto+dhcp and not defined.
[08:21] <pitti> Keybuk: I'll explicitly seed it to ship in exchange
[08:21] <Keybuk> I'm strongly leaning towards not seeding n-m, not even for live
[08:21] <Keybuk> just leave it in supported
[08:21] <pitti> Keybuk: uh, why not? I thought we wanted it in main?
[08:21] <Keybuk> which, I guess means it's seeded, but you know what I mean
[08:21] <pitti> Keybuk: hm, I'd vote for ship
[08:21] <Keybuk> mbiebl: beware that there's an NM bug which means it crashes if you have anything else in /e/n/i at the moment :)
[08:22] <Keybuk> pitti: maybe ship
[08:22] <neuralis> Keybuk: it doesn't seem like replacing ifupdown with a smarter tool is too much work. if you want to spec it out, i'd be happy to write a replacement for edgy.
[08:22] <Keybuk> the problem with it on Live is that you then can't configure a static IP
[08:22] <pitti> Keybuk: yes, !desktop
[08:22] <Keybuk> you go into the admin tools and configure your static IP
[08:22] <mbiebl> Does that only affect the ubuntu backend?
[08:22] <Keybuk> and NM fights you, and changes it back again
[08:22] <Keybuk> mbiebl: it affects anything that says "no, don't control this interface"
[08:22] <pitti> Keybuk: right, it doesn't dynamically react to /e/n/i changes
[08:22] <mdz> Keybuk: I nudged on that bug because if our derivatives are sending us patches, we should be reading them and applying them where appropriate
[08:24] <Keybuk> neuralis: my general thoughts are to go with something entirely different, where we have a set of ways of configuring any interface that comes up; and that each interface can elect to be configured or not in those ways
[08:24] <Keybuk> (which makes no sense, it's hard to explain)
[08:24] <pitti> ogra: good news then! I currently upload a new n-m; upgrade to that, remove wpasupplicant, then the AE runs smooth as silk (even without that hackish if-pre-up.d script)
[08:24] <mbiebl> pitti, NM would have to monitor /e/n/i for that. Don't know if it wouldn't be easier to add a hook to the admin tool to call NM to update its config.
[08:24] <Keybuk> mbiebl: that crashes NM too at the moment :(
[08:24] <pitti> mbiebl: yes, inotify could come in handy there :)
[08:25] <mbiebl> Keybuk, not good.
[08:25] <Keybuk> NM is a piece of crap
[08:25] <pitti> Keybuk: you say that at the time when it really really works for me the very first time :)
[08:26] <Keybuk> pitti: now suspend your machine <g>
[08:26] <Keybuk> *KA-BOOM*
[08:26] <pitti> Keybuk: yes, I need to do iwconfig eth0 rate auto, but that's a bug in the bcm43xx driver
[08:26] <neuralis> Keybuk: actually, that makes sense, and i've been thinking about something along the same lines. 
[08:26] <pitti> Keybuk: after that, it just works
[08:27] <pitti> Keybuk: i. e. I need my personal /etc/power/resume.d script, but that's about it
[08:27] <neuralis> Keybuk: i'll prod you about writing a spec when the next conference rolls around.
[08:27] <Keybuk> neuralis: the net effect would be that there's always a default way of configuring every interface -- which would probably amount to "try DHCP, fall back to 169.254" type thing
[08:27] <Keybuk> pitti: NM gets very upset when you ifdown interfaces it's playing with
[08:28] <Keybuk> and the acpi stuff ifdown and ifups interfaces
[08:28] <pitti> have you guys ever heard a successful report about wpasupplicant on powerpc?
[08:28] <Keybuk> also NM gets very upset if you UP interfaces it doesn't know about
[08:28] <pitti> Keybuk: yes, the interface is shut down on suspend
[08:28] <Keybuk> then it starts playing silly buggers
[08:28] <pitti> I didn't try the latter
[08:29] <infinity> pitti: \o/ on the "make wpasupplication optional" patch.
[08:29] <pitti> infinity: :)
[08:29] <infinity> supplicant, too.
[08:29] <Keybuk> infinity: ITYM suppository
[08:30] <mbiebl> Btw, is there a specific reason, why you wrote an own backend for ubuntu. I had a quick look at it and I think the differences are so minor, that there could be easily adapted/merged into the Debian backend.
[08:30] <mbiebl> Do you want to keep your own backend or would you prefer you unify it again to save some work?
[08:31] <Keybuk> just on general principal mostly
[08:31] <Keybuk> I didn't expect Debian to follow
[08:31] <Keybuk> so was easier to do it as a separate file
[08:32] <mbiebl> It's mostly the handling of resolv.conf (where we have a slightly different approach in Debian) and the handling of device in /e/n/i
[08:33] <mbiebl> And for the latter the Ubuntu behaviour seems sane to me. So I will adapt that.
[08:37] <pitti> mbiebl: what do you think of making wpasupplicant optional? If you agree, I'll put the debdiff somewhere
[08:39] <Keybuk> our resolv.conf handling is pretty hand-wavy
[08:39] <mbiebl> Why not. If it does not have negative side effects I'm all for it.
[08:39] <Keybuk> basically just "let dhclient do that"
[08:40] <mbiebl> There are still users that don't need encryption and so would benefit of it.
[08:49] <mbiebl> pitti, let me know, when you have the patch ready, or post it to the Debian BTS. I will then take a look at it.
[08:50] <pitti> mbiebl: it's already uploaded to Ubuntu
[08:51] <pitti> mbiebl: http://patches.ubuntu.com/patches/network-manager.optional-wpasupplicant.diff
[08:52] <mbiebl> pitti, thanks.
[08:52] <pitti> mbiebl: pretty straightforward
[08:57] <mbiebl> Have to go to work now, guys. Nice talking to you. 
[08:57] <mbiebl> cu
[09:05] <kagou> hi
[09:05] <pitti> hi  kagou 
[09:07] <kagou> i want to help translating messages on the first boot screen when installing. Where can i do that ?!
[09:08] <pitti> kagou: hm, gfxboot doesn't yet seem to be imported into Rosetta
[09:10] <kagou> ok pitti
[09:12] <mdz> Mithrandir: have you ever seen bootchart not be killed by stop-bootchart?
[09:14] <kagou> pitti: gfxboot-theme-ubuntu is in rosetta, it's all translated (french) but the fr.po in source package is not synchronized. is it normal ?! it's not automatical ?
[09:15] <pitti> kagou: oh, 'Translations' is greyed out on https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/gfxboot-theme-ubuntu, interesting
[09:15] <pitti> kagou: entirely possible, Rosetta currently has a huge import backlog
[09:16] <kagou> thanks pitti
[09:17] <ogami1972> hey all you ubuntu developers!
[09:17] <ogami1972> THANK YOU! it's great!
[09:17] <pitti> ogami1972: thanks for the flowers :)
[09:17] <ogami1972> :)
[09:17] <pitti> ogami1972: so, what's your pet bug? :-P
[09:18] <ogami1972> well, i am just a lowly user
[09:18] <ogami1972> but
[09:18] <ogami1972> no wait- no buts
[09:18] <ogami1972> ubuntu is the best!
[09:18] <pitti> rock!
[09:19] <mdz> pitti: it might be a good idea to add wpasupplicant to desktop on i386 so that it can work out of the box
[09:19] <Keybuk> mdz: it's in standard
[09:19] <mdz> oh?
[09:19] <pitti> mdz: I wanted to seed it to the same component as n-m itself
[09:19] <pitti> oh, so it's in desktop already, I see
[09:19] <mdz> ah, so it is
[09:19] <pitti> hm, that's pretty bad
[09:20] <Keybuk> mdz: it works well, and integrates nicely with ifupdown, etc.
[09:20] <Keybuk> so deserves to be alongside things like wireless-tools
[09:20] <pitti> right, I remember having to uninstall u-standard when I purged wpasupplicant
[09:20] <mdz> but I thought pitti changed the dependency because having it installed broke things on powerpc
[09:20] <ogami1972> am running 2 "dist-upgrade" boxes ( a compaq presario 900Mhz and a Inspirion 3700) and breezy on a dimension 2.4g- am setting up a dual-boot sytem to give away ( my third)
[09:20] <pitti> right
[09:20] <Keybuk> it works ok on powerpc for me
[09:20] <mdz> but if it's in standard, that was a no-op at least for the live cd
[09:20] <Keybuk> I thought it was just NM+WPA that broke
[09:20] <ogami1972> anyway- thx again!
[09:20] <mdz> and to some extent for the installed system too
[09:20] <mdz> Keybuk: right, N-M
[09:21] <pitti> yes, but there's currently no way to tell n-m not to use it
[09:21] <Keybuk> I want to take NM out of live anyway
[09:21] <mdz> oh?
[09:21] <Keybuk> it's damned hard to shut down
[09:21] <Keybuk> and means people can't use things like ppp, static IP, etc. on the live cd
[09:21] <Keybuk> which seems rather a bug
[09:23] <pitti> so, if I'm right, n-m needs to dynamically react to /e/n/i changes for that, that's about it?
[09:23] <Keybuk> not just /e/n/i changes
[09:23] <pitti> also manual ifconfig ones, hmm
[09:23] <Keybuk> ppp brings up ppp0, NM goes "aha!  I'll manage that, THANK YOU VERY MUCH"
[09:23] <pitti> can it sensibly drive modems?
[09:24] <Keybuk> I don't think so
[09:24] <Treenaks> would be a great wishlist bug ;)
[09:24] <pitti> why not have it ignore ppp* then?
[09:24] <Keybuk> pitti: because right now, it'd crash whenever you brought up a ppp* interface
[09:24] <pitti> oh dear
[09:24] <Keybuk> NM IS MY FAVOURITE EVER THING
[09:25] <pitti> Keybuk: let's take nm and cupsys out for a public spanking :-P
[09:31] <Keybuk> aww
[09:32] <Keybuk> I'd prefer a public hanging
[09:32] <Keybuk> make them both dance the hemp fandango
[09:34] <infinity> mdz: Can I get a UVF exception for Subversion 1.3.1?  Looks like only bugfixes.  Changelog at: http://svn.collab.net/repos/svn/tags/1.3.1/CHANGES
[09:35] <mdz> infinity: looks good
[09:35] <infinity> mdz: Rock.  Thanks.
[09:36] <ogra> pitti, nice
[09:39] <Keybuk> siretart: ya know, it's probably easier if we just chat on IRC :)
[09:41] <Keybuk> did you mean "waiting for root filesystem", not "waiting for sysfs"? :p
[09:42] <Keybuk> Treenaks: anywhere in particular?
[09:42] <Treenaks> Pressing Shift (and then 'abort'ing the graphical stuff) makes it work.
[09:42] <Treenaks> Keybuk: there :)
[09:42] <Keybuk> shift? graphical stuff?
[09:43] <Treenaks> Keybuk: Yes, in  the bootloader
[09:43] <Treenaks> Keybuk: Pressing shift disables gfxboot
[09:43] <Keybuk> LiveCD?
[09:43] <Treenaks> no, install
[09:43] <Keybuk> I thought we used grub?
[09:44] <Treenaks> Keybuk: Whatever is used, using 'shift' I can disable the graphical bootloader, and then it works.
[09:44] <Keybuk> and you see "waiting for sysfs" or something?
[09:45] <Treenaks> Keybuk: No, I see an Ubuntu logo, and the system hangs
[09:45] <Treenaks> Keybuk: it doesn't even get to the point where it loads/boots the kernel
[09:45] <infinity> Different bug.
[09:45] <Keybuk> so you were just jumping in, while I was looking like I was in a bug-fixing mood, eh?
[09:45] <Keybuk> DON'T YOU KNOW HOW EARLY IT IS?! ")($ :p
[09:45] <infinity> Treenaks: Your bug has been reported against gfxboot-theme-ubuntu, and isn't what Keybuk was talking about. :)
[09:45] <Treenaks> infinity: oh ok :)
[09:46] <Treenaks> Keybuk: I saw 'booting bug' and jumped in :)
[09:46] <Keybuk> infinity: do you know much about LVM?
[09:46] <infinity> Yeah, cause we only ever have one of those at a time. :)
[09:46] <ogra> Keybuk, thanks for pointing out *yawn*
[09:46] <infinity> Keybuk: Do you know what SFA stands for?
[09:47] <Keybuk> infinity: nope
[09:47] <Kamion> Treenaks: yes, known bug, working on it
[09:47] <infinity> Keybuk: fabbione may be your man for lvm stuff... At least, he's probably used it more than once.
[09:47] <Keybuk> ogra: pointing out?
[09:47] <Treenaks> Kamion: ok, thanks
[09:47] <infinity> Keybuk: Oh.  In that case, I know "sweet fuck all" about lvm.  Now you know. :)
[09:47] <Keybuk> ahh
 DON'T YOU KNOW HOW EARLY IT IS?! ")($ :p
[09:47] <Keybuk> I would have got that, had it been, oh, after breakfast
[09:47] <Kamion> kagou: yes, gfxboot-theme-ubuntu is (obviously) not subject to language packs and requires me to sync translations from Rosetta by hand, which I do every so often
[09:48] <kagou> Kamion: ok thanks for the precision
[09:48] <Keybuk> fabbione: siretart is trying to mount a rootfilesystem with /dev/$VOLUMEGROUP/$LOGICAL
[09:48] <Keybuk> which I've never heard of before
[09:48] <Keybuk> and clearly, neither has the lvm initramfs script
[09:48] <Kinnison> Kamion: No, no progress yet, sorry
[09:48] <Kamion> Keybuk: that's common enough practice] 
[09:49] <Kamion> minus the random punctuation that happens to be next to my Enter key
[09:49] <Kamion> the practice dates from LVM1 really, before /dev/mapper/ was in use
[09:49] <Kamion> (AFAIK)
[09:49] <Keybuk> Kamion: oh, elmo let me in :)  so I guess at some point I'm ready to start lessons on ftp stuff
[09:49] <Keybuk> Kamion: do you know what creates those device nodes?
[09:50] <Kamion> nope
[09:50] <Keybuk> bugger
[09:50] <Kamion> sure, can give you a run-through once I've woken up a bit
[09:50] <hunger> Keybuk: That works after the system is up.
[09:50] <kagou> Kamion: may be you could answer me ... is there a project to translate init messages ?!
[09:50] <hunger> Keybuk: But the kernel expects /dev/mapper/$VG-$LV.
[09:50] <Keybuk> hunger: s/kernel/initramfs/
[09:50] <Kamion> kagou: no, and no infrastructure for it yet either so doing the translations would be kinda pointless
[09:50] <Keybuk> kernel doesn't expect anything
[09:50] <Keybuk> hunger: do you know what creates the /dev/$VG/$LV then?
[09:51] <hunger> Keybuk: Aehm, right.
[09:51] <kagou> ok
[09:51] <hunger> Keybuk: I'd expect the lvm start/stop script, but I never bothered to look.
[09:51] <fabbione> Keybuk: bug number?
[09:51] <Kamion> I thought I remembered the LVM tools transforming /dev/$VG/$LV into /dev/mapper/$VG-$LV at run-time, or something crazy like that
[09:51] <fabbione> Kamion: yes that is correct
[09:51] <Keybuk> fabbione: bug 38236
[09:51] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 38236 in lvm-common "boot with root on lvm fails with root=/dev/vg/lv" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/38236
[09:51] <jdub> mjg59: http://www.flickr.com/photos/dirkolbertz/124109733/
[09:51] <Keybuk> oh man
[09:52] <Keybuk> so it's sickness
[09:52] <hunger> Keybuk: I can confirm that. I stumbled over that before as well.
[09:52] <Keybuk> so what you're saying is that /dev/$VG/$LV never exists
[09:52] <Keybuk> and the evil lvm tools of doom just go "oh, you mean /dev/mapper/$VG-$LV" whenever you mention them?
[09:53] <Kamion> Dapper development status meeting in #ubuntu-meeting in 7 minutes
[09:53] <Kamion> recently I've started getting lots of spam forged from mdz@ubuntu.com
[09:53] <fabbione> Keybuk: rejected..
[09:54] <fabbione> Keybuk: it's not a bug..
[09:54] <Keybuk> Kamion: heh, me too
[09:54] <fabbione> oh
[09:54] <fabbione> the meeting..
[09:54] <Keybuk> bogofilter has since started filing ALL mails from mdz
[09:54] <fabbione> hel i forgot to write the report!
[09:54] <Kamion> do it quickly
[09:54] <infinity> Keybuk: Ick.  There's nothing we can do to solve that, since /dev/randomstring/randomstring could just as easily refer to a real device, so I can't go blindly trying it as an LV...
[09:54] <Keybuk> infinity: indeed
[09:55] <Keybuk> I totally agree
[09:55] <infinity> Keybuk: Or can I, perhaps, depending on when it's done?
[09:55] <infinity> Either way, icky.
[09:55] <Keybuk> infinity: the lvm script could assuming anything /dev/*/* was worth a try
[09:55] <Keybuk> but no
[09:55] <hunger> Keybuk: Just remove /dev/$VG/$LV during runtime:-)
[09:55] <Keybuk> that bug can go to the great big REJECTED bin in the sky
[10:00] <Keybuk> Diziet: I always meant to ask; are you Diziet the drone, or Diziet Sma?
[10:04] <Diziet> Sma.
[10:08] <pef> hello, what does "PaS" means in a debian/changelog ?
[10:08] <Keybuk> Packages-arch-Specific or something
[10:08] <Kinnison> yep
[10:09] <pef> perfect, thank you :)
[10:09] <Keybuk> basically the list of "not for us" packages for a given arch
[10:18] <carlos> Riddell: ok, then, there are three .pot files from kdebase that should be fixed. They are generated, but are using UTF-8 chars inside it and thus, the header should have 'charset=UTF-8', gettext does it automatically, I'm not sure why is not done for KDE...  The .pot files are: kfontinst.pot  knetattach.pot  konqueror.pot
[10:19] <carlos> Riddell: also, the hacks.pot file from kdeartwork lacks the standard header that all .pot and .po files have and we are rejecting it
[10:19] <carlos> could you fix it, please?
[10:19] <Riddell> carlos: I'll look into them
[10:20] <carlos> Riddell: thanks. I can file bugs about those problems if you prefer it..
[10:23] <j^> Keybuk rigth now NM with orinoco_pci does not work with encrypted networks, and without a patch(bug 36708) for hostap_pci it does not works with unencypted networks with hostap_pci. indending to change that?
[10:24] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 36708 in network-manager "[PATCH]  wpa_supplicant needs to know about hostap driver" [Critical,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/36708
[10:24] <Keybuk> j^: change which part?
[10:25] <j^> Keybuk i dont care, i suggested to go the hostap_pci route since that also brings WPA support
[10:25] <Keybuk> btw, did the author of that patch deliberately try to make their coding style almost exactly different to the surrounding style
[10:26] <j^> Keybuk if its about strcmp ("hostap", kernel_driver)<=0 vs !strcmp (kernel_driver, "ndiswrapper")
[10:26] <Keybuk> well, first off is the whole orinoco vs. hostap argument, which is still very much open
[10:26] <j^> thats doing something else
[10:26] <j^> hostap is patching hostap_pci and hostap_cs etc
[10:26] <j^> *matching
[10:27] <Keybuk> right, but that will mean that you'll get the hostap driver if kernel_driver is "rtl8129" for example
[10:27] <Keybuk> because hostap < rtl8129
[10:27] <j^> Keybuk besides the argument about the default, hostap, if choosen manulay should work
[10:28] <j^> in that case it should be !strcmp (kernel_driver, "hostap_pci") || !strcmp (kernel_driver, "hostap_cs") || !strcmp (kernel_driver, "hostap_plx")
[10:28] <Keybuk> aye
[10:28] <Keybuk> anyway, it is on my list'o'bugs
[10:28] <Keybuk> and there's a patch
[10:28] <Keybuk> but there are bigger NM bugs first
[10:59] <siretart> Keybuk: ok, now I'm sort of available. that machine with the lvm 'trouble' is my machine at home. when I'm home (in about 7h), I can look up the exact error message from the initrd
[11:00] <Keybuk> your bug got rejected anyway -- only the /dev/mapper/$VG-$LV is supposed to work
[11:04] <seb128> mdz: could you get me a backtrace for bug #34396 now? They will roll new gst tarballs next will, we can probably get the crasher fixed if we forward the issue (it might be already fixed)
[11:04] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 34396 in totem "Totem scroll not working properly" [Normal,Needs info]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/34396
[11:04] <mdz> seb128: I'm not sleepy anymore ;-)
[11:05] <seb128> hehe
[11:05] <mdz> #0  0xb4b40e28 in mpeg2_init_fbuf () from /usr/lib/libmpeg2.so.0
[11:05] <mdz> #1  0xb55424ed in ?? () from /usr/lib/gstreamer-0.10/libgstmpeg2dec.so
[11:05] <mdz> very easy to reproduce here, I just hold the scroll thumb and go back and forth a few times
[11:06] <mdz> installing -dbg
[11:07] <Lathiat> 
[11:07] <seb128> mdz: that's known, no need
[11:07] <mdz> heh, doesn't help anyway
[11:07] <mdz> #0  0xb4af4e28 in mpeg2_init_fbuf () from /usr/lib/libmpeg2.so.0
[11:07] <mdz> #1  0xb54f64ed in __PRETTY_FUNCTION__.17258 ()
[11:07] <mdz>    from /usr/lib/gstreamer-0.10/libgstmpeg2dec.so
[11:07] <Kinnison> mdz: since I appear to be a member of ubuntu-archive should I be prepared to do syncs, or is that just in case I'm needed for other stuff?
[11:08] <seb128> mdz: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=335288
[11:08] <Ubugtu> Gnome bug 335288 in gst-plugins-ugly "Totem Crashes on Certain .mpg Files" [Normal,Assigned]  
[11:08] <StevenK> Hah, __PRETTY_FUNCTION__. How nice of them.
[11:08] <mdz> Kinnison: I created the team based on group membership on drescher
[11:08] <Kinnison> mdz: fair enough
[11:08] <mdz> Kinnison: if you have the privileges and know the tools, I'm happy for you to help
[11:08] <siretart> Keybuk: well, I tried to boot without any root= line as well, and it showed the same symptoms. is THIS supposed to work?
[11:08] <Kinnison> mdz: okay
[11:08] <Keybuk> siretart: without any whatsoever?  not even the default one?
[11:09] <Keybuk> that'd probably sit twiddling it's thumbs, yeah :p
[11:09] <Kamion> mdz: presumably Keybuk needs to be added to ubuntu-archive now too
[11:09] <Keybuk> filed under "well, don't do THAT then"
[11:09] <mdz> Kamion: ah, that must have changed very recently. will do
[11:10] <siretart> Keybuk: I wasn't sure because of your last mail to u-d-a, it seemed to me that rootfs autodetection should enable booting without any root= kernel param at all, which doesn't work for me
[11:10] <Keybuk> siretart: there is no rootfs autodetection
[11:11] <Keybuk> that would be somewhat magic :)
[11:11] <Keybuk> if you feel like a project, it'd be damned cool
[11:11] <Keybuk> perhaps with a little menu for when it finds multiple choices
[11:12] <siretart> ok. then I got something wrong, and it was right to reject that bug.
[11:14] <Keybuk> the waiting thing is initramfs-tools btw
[11:14] <Keybuk> not udev
[11:14] <Keybuk> it loops at the point of no return, just before it's about to m ount t
[11:14] <Keybuk> of course, the fact you get there means you have a bug
[11:14] <mjg59> jdub: Yeah, that's about as far as he's going to get
[11:15] <jdub> mjg59: so is bootcamp pushing a BIOS out to all mactels?
[11:15] <Kamion> jdub: unfortunately it doesn't help us much
[11:16] <Kamion> jdub: once you're in the legacy mode, you can't talk to EFI and therefore you can't install a bootloader
[11:16] <Kamion> although it would make the live CD work
[11:16] <jdub> suck!
[11:16] <jdub> thus their installer-installer for XP...
[11:21] <mjg59> jdub: It could probably be made to work with extreme pain
[11:21] <mjg59> jdub: But realistically, we want it to work without having to jump through these hoops
[11:21] <jdub> yeah
[11:32] <dholbach> mdz, Kamion: what do you think about bug 34430 - would it be ok, if I seeded gimp-print to ubuntu-desktop?
[11:32] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 34430 in ubuntu-meta ubuntu-desktop "add gimp-print to ubuntu-desktop" [Wishlist,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/34430
[11:33] <mdz> dholbach: seems logical; I thought it was already there
[11:34] <dholbach> mdz: it was merely a recommends of gimp (as it "worked without it") - ogra mused it might have been a dependency (or something) in breezy
[11:34] <dholbach> i'm happy to do it (and not get bug reports for it any more) :-)
[11:37] <ogra> ogra@edubuntu:~$ apt-cache showsrc gimp-print|grep main
[11:37] <ogra> Directory: pool/main/g/gimp-print
[11:37] <ogra> ^^^ breezy :)
[11:41] <dholbach> mdz: seeded it
[11:43] <Keybuk> mdz: ubuntu-archive team needs an emblem! :D
[11:44] <mdz> Keybuk: you are official ubuntu-archive emblem delegate
[11:44] <dholbach> that's a title for a business card
[11:44] <Keybuk> mdz /usr/share/icons/Human/16x16/filesystems/gnome-fs-ftp.png
[11:44] <ogra> yeah
[11:44] <pitti> dholbach: isn't gimp-print obsoleted by gutenprint nowadays?
[11:45] <Treenaks> pitti: gimpprint the library is, but gimp-print is the 'Print' menu entry/dialog box for the GIMP image editor
[11:45] <pitti> ah, I see
[11:45] <ogra> pitti, thats how i understood it as well back then, but seems not to be the ccase
[11:46] <pitti> Riddell: did you get my /msg from this morning?
[11:46] <ogra> we had no binary called gimp-print in breezy ... thats new
[11:58] <Riddell> pitti: replied
[12:00] <Kamion> Kinnison: any idea how it would be best to request updates of uid_mappings in /srv/launchpad.net/codelines/current/scripts/ftpmaster-tools/sync-source.py?
[12:01] <Kamion> Kinnison: that dictionary needs to be updated reasonably often when new people request syncs of stuff
[12:02] <Kamion> Kinnison: can I just monkey in an update and send somebody a patch?
[12:04] <Kinnison> Kamion: for now, monkey in changes and send patches to me
[12:04] <Kamion> ok, thanks
[12:04] <Kamion> eventually that script should be taught to just use launchpad ids
[12:20] <Keybuk> hmm
[12:20] <Keybuk> pitti: why can'
[12:20] <Keybuk> can't I see your sync requests?
[12:21] <Keybuk> oh
[12:22] <Keybuk> mdz: did you really mean for the team to be subscribed to syncs and not assigned them?
[12:22] <Kamion> yes, I noticed that, assigned bugs don't necessarily show up in +subscribedbugs
[12:22] <Kamion> which is an insanely annoying malone quirk
[12:23] <pitti> Keybuk: I just followed the instructions which asked to sub the team
[12:23] <Keybuk> yeah
[12:23] <Keybuk> the instructions do say that
[12:23] <pitti> https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-archive/+subscribedbugs
[12:23] <pitti> works quite well
[12:23] <Keybuk> pitti: except the one sladen filed and put in +assignedbugs isn't in that list
[12:24] <dholbach> hm, it seems that bug 10822 has re-surfaced
[12:24] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 10822 in localechooser "en_US users see en_GB strings all over?" [Normal,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/10822
[12:24] <dholbach> bug 38250 and bug 38136 indicate that
[12:24] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 38250 in epiphany-browser "incorrect default keyword search page" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/38250
[12:24] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 38136 in evolution "British English Spellings are Used" [Minor,Rejected]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/38136
[12:24] <pitti> Keybuk: just to be sure, I'll modify my script to assign *and* subscribe the archive team
[12:24] <Keybuk> pitti: doesn't assigning infer subscription?
[12:25] <pitti> Keybuk: I hoped so, but as Kamion says this might not always be the case
[12:26] <Kamion> Keybuk: ("imply". grr. pet peeve)
[12:26] <Kamion> dholbach: please only reopen 10822 if you're sure that it's due to the installer and not something else messing with $LANGUAGE
[12:29] <dholbach> ok, will put some more investigation into it
[12:31] <Keybuk> Kamion: I clearly have the opposite to dholbach's bug
[12:31] <Keybuk> my brain is getting words from en_US
[12:32] <sladen> Keybuk: should I subscribe ubu
[12:32] <sladen> Keybuk: should I subscribe 'ubuntu-archive' on that bug, or change the instructions on the wiki?
[12:32] <Kamion> subscribe ubuntu-archive for now, I think
[12:33] <Kamion> I don't think it'll always make sense to assign ubuntu-archive
[12:38] <Kamion> thanks :)
[12:39] <Kamion> (er, echan)
[12:39] <Keybuk> Kamion: don't mention it
[12:57] <dholbach> Keybuk: hum... why didn't the ubuntu-meta upload get my seed changes?
[12:59] <Keybuk> dholbach: did you forget to push them?
[12:59] <dholbach> no... i think not
[01:00] <Keybuk> I see no dhugbach in bzr log
[01:01] <Keybuk> oh, wait
[01:01] <Keybuk> 10:40:20 today
[01:01] <ogra> btw, will we get a working bzrk anytime again ? 
[01:01] <dholbach> 0 revision(s) pushed.
[01:01] <dholbach> seems I pushed it
[01:01] <janimo> mvo, hello. I have just noticed that update-manager depends on gconf. I somehow missed it before
[01:01] <Keybuk> probably means that the http copies didn't update yet
[01:01] <janimo> directly I mean not via python-gnome
[01:01] <Keybuk> they were updated sometime before you pushed
[01:01] <Keybuk> and will be updated sometime soon
[01:01] <dholbach> alright
[01:02] <dholbach> well... it's not terribly urgent... i just wondered
[01:02] <ogra> it takes ~20 min until they get pulled in
[01:02] <Keybuk> dholbach: looks like they're up now, so you could update and upload
[01:03] <dholbach> as I said... it's not that urgent
[01:05] <ogra> meh, if you want to use sorting by distro on the new +packages page, you'll always get breezy first ... :/ we should have release numbers instead of names there
[01:06] <mvo> janimo: hm, ok
[01:06] <Keybuk> Kinnison: so, this is probably a really silly question
[01:06] <Keybuk> but is there any way to unpublish a source package?
[01:06] <mvo> janimo: I have a upgrade failure for you (breezy->dapper with xfce installed in breezy)
[01:06] <jdub> dholbach: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/evolution/+bug/37858
[01:06] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 37858 in evolution "Missing emails in data file" [Normal,Rejected]  
[01:06] <mvo> janimo: do you prefer mail or bugreport?
[01:06] <jdub> dholbach: that doesn't appear to be a support requiest
[01:06] <jdub> request
[01:07] <jdub> that appears to be an actual bug
[01:07] <janimo> mvo, whichever is easier for you
[01:07] <dholbach> jdub: he seems to have deleted some files... "help me recover" is a support request, no?
[01:08] <jdub> dholbach: no, the emails are there, but not displayed
[01:09] <dholbach> i understood the "I deleted ..." as "I deleted some files and now things are broken, please help me"
[01:12] <Kinnison> Keybuk: define unpublish
[01:12] <Keybuk> Kinnison: "oops, I didn't read that patch and it all FTBFS so I'd like to make like that upload never happened"
[01:13] <ogra> just upload a fixed version ? 
[01:13] <Kinnison> Keybuk: If it's not a case of "this results in all builds failing horribly for everything" then as ogra says, upload a fixed version and take the embarassment
[01:13] <Keybuk> ogra: the fixed version was the one in the archive before I uploaded that one :)
[01:14] <ogra> so revert the change in the next upload
[01:14] <jdub> dholbach: he's goign to repoen it and point to other people's reproductions of it 8)
[01:14] <ogra> :)
[01:14] <Keybuk> I uploaded an ubuntu4 which is identical to ubuntu2 except for the changelog
[01:14] <Keybuk> bah
[01:14] <Keybuk> you mean there's no "LOOK OVER THERE!" surgery tool? :p
[01:14] <Kinnison> No because of the mirrors etc
[01:15] <Kinnison> launchpad is an honest and hardworking lad
[01:15] <Keybuk> BOR-ING
[01:15] <ogra> and you get into trouble if i grab your source before it built
[01:15] <Kinnison> better to be boring and consistent
[01:15] <Kinnison> than risk breaking mirrors etc
[01:15] <ogra> and upload my change 
[01:16] <Keybuk> I like getting in trouble
[01:17] <ogra> :)
[01:18] <Kinnison> Keybuk: y'think that if there was a "look over there, an obvious distraction!" tool, I'd have let my upload of g-p-m with the shoddy changelog remain in the archive?
[01:19] <Keybuk> Kinnison: bah
[01:19] <dholbach> jdub: did the guy point you to the bug?
[01:19] <Keybuk> Kinnison: testing builds involves installing build-deps
[01:20] <Keybuk> which nearly always find some way of conflicting with something I have installed
[01:20] <Keybuk> or, these days
[01:20] <Keybuk> pulling in postfix and resolvconf
[01:20] <Keybuk> I've never got pbuilder to work
[01:20] <Kinnison> eh?
[01:20] <ogra> huh ?
[01:20] <Kinnison> s'easy
[01:20] <Kamion> or just debootstrap a chroot
[01:20] <Keybuk> Kamion: still hassle :p
[01:21] <Keybuk> infinity tells me soon enough if it doesn't build <g
[01:21] <ogra> you didnt read dholbachs PbuilderHowto ?
[01:21] <janimo> ogra, that howto is very confusing
[01:21] <ogra> err ? 
[01:21] <Keybuk> ogra: confused the hell out of me
[01:21] <Keybuk> and still suffers the same pbuilder problem I hit every time
[01:21] <ogra> dholbach, ^^^^
[01:21] <Keybuk> you need a source package
[01:21] <janimo> mentions all kinds of cr*p you don;t actually need
[01:21] <Keybuk> which means you need the build-deps
[01:21] <janimo> like messing with /etc and apt config stuff
[01:22] <janimo> none of that is actual
[01:22] <Keybuk> or, at least, some of them
[01:22] <Kinnison> why do you need the build-deps for making a source package?
[01:22] <Kamion> Keybuk: you don't need the build-deps to create a source package
[01:22] <Keybuk> Kinnison: evil ones that edit control
[01:22] <Kamion> at worst, you need one or two of them
[01:22] <Keybuk> or, e.g. postfix, which fails in clean if libdb4.3-dev isn't installed
[01:22] <Kinnison> Keybuk: change them so that they don't
[01:22] <dholbach> ogra: what?
[01:22] <Kamion> like cdbs
[01:22] <Keybuk> aye
[01:22] <Keybuk> once I've got the energy up to doing that though, it's easier just to build it on the machine
[01:22] <ogra> dholbach, they say your PbuilderHowto is confusing
[01:22] <Keybuk> rather than muck around with pbuilder
[01:22] <dholbach> ogra: it's not mine... i made some tiny additions to an existing page
[01:23] <janimo> ogra, that howto does not seem to be touched since hoary?
[01:23] <ogra> janimo, Keybuk 
[01:23] <ogra> Installing Pbuilder on dapper
[01:23] <ogra> The latest pbuilder package in dapper (0.145ubuntu2) should work out of the box. You only need to install it. Then run:
[01:23] <ogra> pbuilder create 
[01:23] <ogra> and then
[01:23] <ogra> pbuilder buld my-pacakge_1.0.dsc
[01:23] <janimo> I'll rewrite it. It looks there actually confuses others too not just me
[01:23] <ogra> whats confusing there ? 
[01:23] <Keybuk> ogra: needs the dsc
[01:23] <janimo> ogra, is that in the howto?
[01:23] <ogra> yes
[01:23] <Keybuk> why can't it build the package in the current working directory
[01:23] <ogra> at the top
[01:24] <janimo> ok, did not check in the lats 2 weeks
[01:24] <Keybuk> when I'm testing builds, I've nearly always got edits I want to test
[01:24] <Keybuk> I don't want to have to clean it, make a source, etc. just to test it
[01:24] <Kamion> you can always copy the cwd into the chroot and 'pbuilder login'
[01:24] <Keybuk> Kamion: but then why? :)
[01:24] <Kamion> you might then not have to ask how to unpublish a source package. :)
[01:24] <mvo> janimo: let me know if the latest uploads works as expected please 
[01:25] <Keybuk> Kamion: I'd still not bother testing builds of drive-by patching
[01:25] <ogra> oh, you are right its very coinfusing ... "buld" should be "build" 
[01:25] <janimo> mvo, ok, thanks. I assume update-notifier
[01:25] <Keybuk> patch, changelog, upload, NEXT! :p
[01:25] <TheMuso> 
[01:25] <mvo> janimo: and pbuilder :)
[01:25] <janimo> mvo, you mean the patch from MOTU?
[01:26] <mvo> janimo: yes, the stuff I uploaded
[01:26] <mvo> (for pbuilder)
[01:26] <Keybuk> oh, if you copy the cwd into the chroot, you then find that emacs in the chroot doesn't have my .emacsrc :)
[01:26] <dholbach> oh stop complaining :-p
[01:27] <Keybuk> the only use I've ever found for a chroot is checking you've got the build-deps right on a new package
[01:27] <jdub> dholbach: yeah, SLUG dude. :)
[01:27] <ogra> bah, aussie conspiracy
[01:27] <dholbach> jdub: i see... i replied :)
[01:27] <ogra> againnst our hugmaster
[01:28] <dholbach> :-p
[01:29] <jdub> heh, he hadn't even replied/reopened yet 8)
[01:29] <jdub> that'll freak him out a bit
[01:30] <janimo> mvo, thanks I'll take a look at the breezy->dapper issue.I know I corrected a similar one last week fro the same two packages.
[01:33] <mvo> janimo: cool, thank
[01:43] <janimo> mvo, hmm I don't see recent uploads by you on the changes list
[01:51] <pitti> mvo: enjoy!
[01:51] <mvo> pitti: thanks :)
[02:01] <TMM> hi all!
[02:01] <TMM> I was just having a little discussion with someone, and he advised me to go here and ask your collective opinions on autopackage
[02:02] <ogra> just dont ask
[02:02] <TMM> I am not trying to start a flamewar or anything :)
[02:03] <ogra> there are several threads on the ubuntu-devel ML ... look at the archives
[02:03] <TMM> ok
[02:04] <ogra> http://www.kitenet.net/~joey/blog/entry/autopackage_designed_by_monkeys.html might be informative too
[02:07] <TMM> ogra: not entirely accurate though, the functions of the shell scripts don't change during stable releases
[02:07] <sebest> on a related note, why is it needed to have root privileges to install packages? many package should be installable by normal user
[02:07] <sebest> things  like firefox, gaim, gimp etc etc
[02:07] <ogra> TMM, i didnt write it
[02:08] <ogra> sebest, how would you do that without write access to the system directorys ? 
[02:08] <sebest> ogra, i would install them in the home directory
[02:09] <ogra> sebest, cool, so with 200 users you install 200 times firefox in their homes ? 
[02:09] <sebest> with 200 users, it's different usecase, you are in an enterprise use case
[02:10] <zakame> ogra: not to mention in various states (some installed, some half-installed, some broken...)
[02:10] <sebest> btw, it's already doable, just not easy
[02:10] <Treenaks> zakame: and different versions!
[02:10] <ogra> yay
[02:10] <ogra> thats only 1.8G in the firefox case with 200 users :)
[02:11] <sebest> ogra, you know a lot of workstation with 200 users on it? :)
[02:11] <kent> if the programs dependencies or right - they could easely be installed in system folders (no need for autop.),  if not - they will need lots of dependency-files and creating a mess.
[02:11] <ogra> sebest, nope, but i know several edubuntu installations with 400 for example 
[02:11] <sebest> and btw , if they can already do it
[02:12] <sebest> ogra, yes, but nothing forbid them to install 400 firefox in their home :)
[02:12] <mjg59> sebest: Quotas generally do
[02:12] <ogra> sebest, sanity does (i hope)
[02:12] <zakame> not to mention maintaining a $HOME/var/lib/dpkg/* ...
[02:13] <Treenaks> noexec does, too :P
[02:13] <sebest> ok ok ok , was just a bad suggestion ;)
[02:13] <TheMuso> can anybody tell me why if I blacklist a usb controller module, ehci_hcd in this case, in /etc/modprobe.d/blacklist, that it still gets loaded on subsequent reboots?
[02:13] <ogra> it comes up once a month ... we're used to it :)
[02:14] <sebest> ogra: you mean autopackage, or being able to install software as normal user?
[02:14] <ogra> as often as autopackage i think...
[02:14] <ogra> both 
[02:14] <zakame> TheMuso: experienced the same, except I was trying to blacklist nvidia
[02:14] <ogra> related or unrelated
[02:15] <ogra> not as often as klick though
[02:15] <sebest> i don't care about autopackage, but i thought it "may" make sense that a normal user can install a simple package without being root
[02:15] <TheMuso> zakame: Glad I am not the only one. For a sec I thought that the controller driver was loaded by something other than udev for a sec there.
[02:15] <sebest> so klick is also a bad thing?
[02:15] <ogra> its an autopackage frontend ...
[02:16] <Keybuk> usually it means something else (other than modprobe) is causing the device to get loaded
[02:16] <Keybuk> s/device/module/ sorry
[02:16] <sebest> ogra, i thoug that click was more an apt server side
[02:16] <TheMuso> Keybuk: Yeah thats true.
[02:16] <ogra> with autopackage bits included
[02:16] <jdub> sebest: it's just a different way to blat blobs of goop on the disk
[02:16] <Keybuk> zakame: nvidia is usually loaded explicitly by the xserver and its shell scripts, iirc
[02:17] <jdub> sebest: different to autopackage, but the 'interesting' bit is the url handler to download klik blobs
[02:17] <TheMuso> Keybuk: But after logging into a console after a fresh boot, the controller driver is loaded, yet no other modules seem to depend on something.
[02:17] <zakame> Keybuk: hmm, even if I use `nv'?
[02:17] <TheMuso> I am probably missing something here however.
[02:17] <Keybuk> zakame: something must be loading it
[02:17] <zakame> indeed :/
[02:18] <Keybuk> TheMuso: best thing would be to work out where it's being loaded
[02:18] <TheMuso> Right.
[02:19] <Keybuk> most likely in the initramfs actually
[02:19] <Keybuk> after you added it to the blacklist, did you update-initramfs -u ?
[02:19] <TheMuso> No. I will try that. Thats a good point.
[02:20] <Keybuk> that'd be my bet
[02:20] <TheMuso> You're probably right.
[02:20] <sebest> jdub, i understand that requiring root priv, helps to keep the installation clean, i just thought, it mays be interesting to be able to install simple app without root access
[02:20] <jdub> it woudl be interesting
[02:20] <jdub> at some stage
[02:20] <jdub> perhaps
[02:21] <jdub> but you'd be tossing out package management to a large degree
[02:21] <ogra> we could just go the lindwos path and only have root :)
[02:21] <jdub> so we'd be putting ourselves in the same position that apple wants to get out of
[02:21] <sebest> jdub: yes i guess it wasn't a goal of apt, so it would require major changes
[02:21] <zakame> hmm something like firefox extensions (sorry I'm still sharpening)
[02:21] <sebest> jdub: could you explain this point?
[02:21] <Keybuk> zakame: the blacklist files only get used by modprobe when expanding hardware aliases
[02:22] <sebest> jdub: about apple
[02:22] <Keybuk> e.g. modprobe pci:v000010DEd*sv*sd*bc03sc00i00*  (with the *s expanded)
[02:22] <zakame> hmmm....
[02:22] <jdub> they've painted themselves into a non-package-managed corner
[02:22] <jdub> and now they're wondering what to do
[02:22] <Keybuk> if anything calls modprobe nvidia (or insmod nvidia) explicitly, then that bypasses the blacklist
[02:22] <TheMuso> Keybuk: Indeed it was the initramfs. Thanks. I would have tried that eventually. :)
[02:23] <sebest> jdub: what are their issues?
[02:23] <sebest> updating?
[02:23] <sebest> dependencies?
[02:23] <Keybuk> I've tried fairly hard to find all the modprobe calls and add "-b" (check blacklist) to them, but there are other that escape me
[02:23] <jdub> sebest: complete lack of package management for the system and for applications
[02:23] <Keybuk> TheMuso: nah, you'd've installed a new kernel eventually and wondered why it magically fixed itself <g>
[02:23] <jdub> updates to the system are cpio blobs spewed onto the filesystem
[02:23] <jdub> etc
[02:24] <sebest> jdub, i can understanf it's an issue for the base system, but for apps like itunes, gaim, and so on?
[02:24] <jdub> totally unmanaged
[02:24] <Keybuk> /opt/itunes /opt/gaim :)
[02:24] <TheMuso> I just wish I didn't have to blacklist a controller module just so I could use stupid USB devices that try and fake themselves as being 2.0 devices which causes them to not register as storage devices.
[02:25] <Keybuk> TheMuso: heh
[02:25] <sebest> jdub, yes i see, they need to find a good balance between ease of use and managability
[02:25] <TheMuso> If one inserts them when Windows is running, Windows says they could perform faster etc etc.
[02:26] <pitti> hmm, no daily ppc live CD today?
[02:26] <pitti> ... or in the last two days
[02:26] <Keybuk> jdub: tbh, dpkg isn't *much* more clever than unpacking cpio blobs over the file system
[02:27] <Keybuk> except it does clean up stuff that was in the last blob but not in the new one
[02:27] <Keybuk> sorta, partially, sometimes
[02:27] <jdub> Keybuk: at least there's sane management going on behind the scenes
[02:27] <Keybuk> yeah
[02:27] <Keybuk> there's some attempt to make sure you don't have eight programs all wanting different versions of the same .so
[02:28] <ogra> Keybuk, hey, thats proven to work by M$ :P
[02:28] <Keybuk> I do quite like the idea of app-in-a-dir though
[02:29] <Keybuk> nautilus could be trained to recognise them, and then run $appdir/script with PATH and LD_LIBRARY_PATH set to look inside and stuff
[02:29] <jdub> Keybuk: baby jesus is frowning
[02:29] <sebest> Keybuk: i think that's what apple do more or less
[02:29] <Keybuk> jdub: it's not bad
[02:29] <Keybuk> such things would be limited to user home dirs and /opt
[02:30] <Keybuk> easy to clean up (just delete the dir)
[02:30] <sebest> Keybuk, looks like "staw"
[02:30] <Keybuk> not heard of that
[02:30] <Keybuk> the way Apps worked in Risc OS is vaguely in my mind here
[02:30] <sebest> stow
[02:31] <Keybuk> (apps were directories whose name began with !
[02:31] <Keybuk> e.g. you'd have !Gaim
[02:31] <sebest> Keybuk, that's a gnu project
[02:31] <Keybuk> inside that w
[02:31] <sebest> Keybuk, http://www.gnu.org/software/stow/
[02:31] <Keybuk> as the special file !Boot that set up the icons and file manager behaviour
[02:31] <sebest> GNU Stow is a program for managing the installation of software packages, keeping them separate (/usr/local/stow/emacs vs. /usr/local/stow/perl, for example) while making them appear to be installed in the same place (/usr/local).
[02:31] <Keybuk> and !Run that was run when the icon was double-clicked
[02:32] <Keybuk> you'd usually have !Sprites (icons) etc. as well
[02:32] <Keybuk> and everything else for the app was in the directory)
[02:32] <torkel> whats wrong with ./configure --prefix=$HOME/itunes && make && make install ? :-)
[02:32] <Keybuk> sebest: isn't that just the symlink-masher ?
[02:32] <Keybuk> torkel: mv itunes ../stuff
[02:32] <sebest> Keybuk, yes somehow 
[02:32] <Keybuk> sebest: so not the same, really
[02:33] <sebest> Keybuk, i think that your idea is what apple does
[02:33] <sebest> you think that you drag and drop a file (the application) but in fact it's a folder, with all the needed ressource for the application
[02:34] <Keybuk> yeah
[02:34] <sebest> and the equivalent of nautilus managed it so when you double click on the folder it executes a script to start the apps
[02:35] <infinity> Does this system have any concept of dependencies, or is everything self-contained and statically compiled?
[02:36] <sebest> infinity, it's not statically compiled as far as i know
[02:36] <Keybuk> self-contained or static in general on Risc OS
[02:36] <Keybuk> it wasn't really great on dynamic linking
[02:37] <sebest> but there is not really a problem of dependencies because there is only one MacOsX
[02:37] <Keybuk> Kinnison's partner will no doubt leap in and bite my balls off and tell the world that Risc OS had the BEST DAMNED linker on the planet, but nobody ever used it, or something
[02:37] <sebest> you just have to say "requive macosx versionb x.y)
[02:37] <infinity> sebest: Unless you need to depend on another third party package, or something.
[02:37] <sebest> infinity, yes true
[02:37] <infinity> sebest: Then, I guess, you get permission to ship their with yours, or pray that users are smart enough to jump through hoops...
[02:38] <Keybuk> infinity: those are what you stick in your app-dir
[02:38] <Keybuk> this is not that different to how they try and ship ooo.o now
[02:38] <sebest> Keybuk,  you can put them anywhere
[02:38] <Keybuk> "mommy! why does openoffice's source package contain a copy of libc?"
[02:38] <Keybuk> sebest: I do hope you were channelling Sarah Michelle-Gellar then
[02:38] <Treenaks> Keybuk: doko's your MUM?
[02:38] <infinity> OpenOffice's distribution rollup is scary.
[02:39] <sebest> Keybuk, what do you mean?
[02:40] <Keybuk> sebest: Cruel Intentions ... "you can put it anywhere" ... etc.
[02:40] <sebest> ah
[02:40] <sebest> ok :)
[02:40] <zakame> Treenaks: lol
[02:41] <Kinnison> Keybuk: he says there's no such thing as Risc OS, but that RISC OS's linker was shite
[02:41] <sebest> Keybuk, i didn't see it in english ;)
[02:43] <Keybuk> Kinnison: I'm not going to bow down to the authorised spelling of a company that couldn't spell "disk"
[02:45] <jdub> Keybuk: j00 are teh flamebait!
[02:50] <Kinnison> Keybuk: well, I can see where the confusion comes from for you. I mean, a RiscPC runs RISC OS, as does a RiscStation. But RISC/os ran on MIPS based systems
[03:04] <MidMark> Hi people <Kamping_Kaiser> sent me here because I was having an hard disk failure with lost of boot with ubuntu 5.10 fully updated
[03:05] <MidMark> yesterday all filesystem of my ubuntu 5.10 structure goes in failure, fortunatelly I have backupped all my data with flight 6 live cd, the hard disk isn't broken (deep test result are ok), but how is it possible that failure? Bug? Is there a chance to view some logs and find the bug ot the problem?
[03:06] <jdub> what's the libmysqlclient15off stuff?
[03:07] <MidMark> probably if there are some bugs in ext3 (the filesystem) need to be investigated and fixed... helps is very appreciated
[03:07] <Treenaks> MidMark: bugs in ext3? like what?
[03:08] <MidMark> it seems strange that my filesystem was broken without an hard disk failure, so I've thought an ext3 butg
[03:09] <MidMark> the problem was: I have started my notebook: a forced filesystem check was started, then stops and asked a manual fsck
[03:10] <MidMark> after done the fsck a lot of problems were recognized and a lot of dirs goes in lost+found, dirs like: /var /etc and others
[03:10] <MidMark> of course ubuntu 5.10 won't boot anymore
[03:11] <MidMark> so I'm asking if there are some logs I can view to investigate the problem, if it wasn't a bug I'll go out immediately
[03:14] <mjg59> MidMark: /var/log/messages may provide an indication of filesystem corruption
[03:15] <mjg59> But if there is any, it may well be caused by hardware failure of some sort (not necessarily in the disk)
[03:16] <MidMark> mjg59: thanx now I'm seeing it, but which different failure can cause filesystem corruption?
[03:17] <Kamion> MidMark: the disk suddenly deciding that it didn't like the concept of actually retaining data any more, would be a favourite one
[03:17] <Kamion> hard disks are far from perfect
[03:17] <mjg59> MidMark: Bad CPU, bad memory, bad power supply...
[03:17] <Kamion> if the data it happens not to want to retain is in the middle of your filesystem's directory indexes, well ...
[03:18] <Kamion> and the controller might *now* have realised that it can't use those blocks any more
[03:18] <Kamion> (so a test would be fine)
[03:18] <MidMark> kamion: the hard disk seems ok, I have done a deep analysis with Hitachi software specific
[03:18] <Kamion> but as mjg59 says, a failure in any part of your system between you and the disk could cause problems
[03:19] <MidMark> mjg59: the notebook seems all ok, and was ok right now. Now is running flight 6 live cd... you are thinking a temporary failure?
[03:19] <Kamion> ext3 bugs are possible, but in general ext3 is used because it's exceptionally reliable
[03:19] <mjg59> MidMark: An individual sector can go bad. The next time you try to write it'll remap it, but that means the original data is lost
[03:19] <mjg59> However, a test will then report fine
[03:20] <zul> mvo: ping
[03:20] <mvo> zul: pong
[03:21] <zul> mvo: what change did you make to grub that caused the bug reports?
[03:21] <bddebian> fabbione: ping?
[03:22] <mvo> zul: I restored save-defaults and updatedefaultentry
[03:22] <mvo> zul: if it causes too much trouble we should revert it (both changes taken from debian)
[03:23] <zul> mvo: i think it might be causing problems by the looks of the bug reports..
[03:24] <mvo> zul: what bug ids in particular? 
[03:24] <zul> uh...gimme a sec..
[03:24] <mvo> thanks
[03:25] <MidMark> mjg59: this is messages log file http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/11593
[03:26] <MidMark> the problem is failure was yesterday not 4th of april
[03:26] <zul> mvo: 38182 for one
[03:27] <mjg59> MidMark: That suggests that the failure wasn't logged
[03:29] <MidMark> mjg59: damn, so there is no way to understand the problem?
[03:29] <mvo> zul: I'm investigation this one currently. the patches *should* be harmless and do nothing to a default configuraton. but I may well have overlooked something :/
[03:30] <zul> mvo: ok...good to know..
[03:30] <Kamion> mvo: I think we should consider syncing to current Debian grub
[03:30] <Kamion> well, merging with
[03:30] <Kamion> there are a number of fixes that are essentially stabilisation of 0.97
[03:32] <mvo> Kamion: yes, it seems to me like we already took a lot of them
[03:32] <mvo> Kamion: so it's probably better to go all the way
[03:38] <mjg59> MidMark: I'm afraid so
[03:38] <MidMark> mjg59: thanx anyway for your time
[03:40] <jono> hey
[03:49] <Seveas> Treenaks, #ubuntu-nl misses you 
[03:50] <HiddenWolf> Yeah, we do. :)
[03:58] <Kamion> heh, pitti is about to run into the batch of espresso bugs I'm fixing right now, I'm betting
[03:58] <mdke> is gnome-xchat configured to have an entry in the server list for Ubuntu which automatically joins #ubuntu? sorry to ask, haven't got a dapper system on me
[03:58] <mdke> xchat-gnome*
[04:00] <ogra> has anybody an idea what patchsystem is used in ppp ? (i see a ton of patches in debian/patches and need to disable one) there is no dependency on any patch system in the control file ...
[04:01] <ogra> and rules doesnt have anything patch related either ....
[04:01] <ogra> (at least grep retuns nothing)
[04:01] <ogra> *returns
[04:02] <dholbach> might be those are simply applied patches
[04:02] <ogra> but how ? 
[04:02] <ogra> there is no patch command anywhere
[04:03] <ogra> oh, you mean manually applied to the orig.tar.gz ?
[04:04] <dholbach> to the diff.gz?
[04:04] <ogra> hmm ...
[04:04] <dholbach> if there's no patch system, i usually apply the patch and put it to debian/applied-patches, so people can extract it easier
[04:04] <seb128> mdke: around?
[04:05] <ogra> btw, dont look at this debian/patches dir in ppp, you'll surely go blind, its a mess
[04:05] <rcaskey_> has there been any talk of applying the apparmor patch in dapper+1?
[04:05] <jdub> there are way more enjoyable things you can do to go blind
[04:05] <ogra> yeah
[04:05] <ogra> indeed :)
[04:06] <ogra> but mdz did the dancing dervish on malone and assigned alotta bugs to me
[04:06] <ogra> so i somehow need to fix them and try to not go blind
[04:07] <mdke> seb128, briefly
[04:07] <seb128> mdke: patch is by Don Scorgie right?
[04:07] <seb128> mdke: since that's you who sent it, to get the changelog credit correctly :p
[04:07] <mdke> seb128, yes, except the strings, which are by the documentation team
[04:07] <mdke> fine, credit is definitely his :)
[04:08] <seb128> "patch by Don Scorgie, description by Matthew East"
[04:08] <seb128> is that fine with you? :)
[04:08] <seb128> I'm using your patch description for the changelog :p
[04:08] <jsgotangco> lol
[04:08] <mdke> seb128, "patch by Don Scorgie" is fine :)
[04:10] <pitti_live>  /msg nickserv link pitti pitti_live
[04:10] <pitti_live> oops, sorry
[04:10] <Kamion> 14:58 < Kamion> heh, pitti is about to run into the batch of espresso bugs I'm fixing right now, I'm betting
[04:11] <pitti_live> Kamion: believe it or not, this time I installed on /dev/hda2 instead of /dev/hdc2, and it didn't crash :)
[04:11] <Kamion> pitti_live: bet it crashed later
[04:11] <Kamion> network configuration had a bit of a whoopsie
[04:11] <Kamion> as did localechooser
[04:11] <pitti_live> Kamion: I'm 50% into 'installing system' now, that's way more than I'm used to :)
[04:11] <Kamion> chmod +x /usr/lib/espresso/localechooser/* quickly and it'll get further than it otherwise would
[04:12] <Kamion> but will probably still crash at network config, sorry, can't fix that on the fly
[04:12] <pitti_live> sure, no problem
[04:12] <pitti_live> I actually intended to play a bit with hda2 vs. hdc2 to (a) check that 'doesn't install grub' bug and (b) that libparted related crash
[04:13] <seb128> mdke: does that patch includes your 04_text_color.patch change too?
[04:14] <ogra> dholbach, ha ! there is a debian/sys-build.mk ....
[04:15] <pitti_live> Wow, "Installing language packs..." -- shiny
[04:15] <dholbach> ogra: ouch... i converted one of the gnome packages that has that kind of stuff in Debian to CDBS :-p
[04:15] <Kamion> ogra: oh, that's DBS
[04:16] <ogra> i doubt i can do that with ppp
[04:16] <ogra> Kamion, oh, why doesnt it just use dbs then ...
[04:16] <ogra> looks really messy
[04:16] <Kamion> because it probably dates from before dbs was packaged
[04:16] <ogra> ah
[04:17] <Kamion> like dpatch, it used to just be copied into whatever packages used it
[04:17] <pitti_live> Kamion: at which point is grub supposed to be installed?
[04:17] <Kamion> pitti_live: near the end, just after network config
[04:18] <pitti_live> Kamion: I have a dialog "Installing language packs" -- "90%" -- "Configuring hardware"
[04:18] <pitti_live> :)
[04:18] <pitti_live> ah, it complains about not being able to install grub
[04:18] <Kamion> yeah, I just noticed that it's not dealing with the title change correctly
[04:18] <Treenaks> Finalizing settings.... [wait]  Applying settings....
[04:18] <pitti_live> Kamion: ok, I won't file a bug then
[04:18] <Kamion> huh, it got past network config?
[04:18] <mdke> seb128, no, I don't think so
[04:18] <Treenaks> (sorry, that was what a Windows installer told TMM once ;))
[04:18] <pitti_live> Kamion: I didn't see any status message about network
[04:18] <Kamion> pitti_live: go ahead and file a bug anyway if you would, I haven't nailed it down yet so I might forget
[04:18] <pitti_live> Kamion: I had langpack configuartion, then hardware, now boot loader
[04:18] <pitti_live> Kamion: sure
[04:19] <Kamion> pitti_live: maybe you have a sufficiently old CD not to have network config, then
[04:19] <Kamion> which is fine
[04:19] <mdke> seb128, if unsure, ask on the bug: I've subscribed Don
[04:19] <pitti_live> Kamion: hm, today's live
[04:19] <TMM> windows server 2003 to be exact
[04:19] <Kamion> pitti_live: might not have picked up yesterday's espresso uploads ...
[04:19] <TMM> and it didn't end there :)
[04:19] <pitti_live> indeed
[04:19] <TMM> the settings where finalized, applied, written and finished
[04:20] <Kamion> oh, live CD builds appear to be disabled
[04:20] <Kamion> infinity: <poke>
[04:20] <pitti_live> Kamion: yes, ppc is missing entirely
[04:20] <Kamion> sorry, I mean live filesystem
[04:20] <Kamion> pitti_live: separate problem
[04:20] <pitti_live> Kamion: strange, the espresso log says that it couldn't resolve the host name when it wanted to install grub
[04:21] <Kamion> pitti_live: yep, it's trying to upgrade
[04:21] <Kamion> pitti_live: fixed in newer versions of espresso
[04:21] <pitti_live> cool
[04:21] <infinity> Kamion: Yes'm?
[04:21] <Kamion> infinity: please re-enable live filesystem builds
[04:21] <infinity> Kamion: Oh, right, cronjobs.  Whee.
[04:21] <infinity> Kamion: On it.
[04:22] <bddebian> Heya infinity.  fabbione is a hard person to get a hold of :-)
[04:22] <seb128> mdke: I've figured, the toc2html.xsl "text-decoration: none; color:" change was dupped
[04:22] <seb128> mdke: it builds now :)
[04:22] <infinity> Kamion: Done.
[04:23] <Kamion> pitti_live: the powerpc thing is due to temporary directories somehow ending up as group warthogs; fixing
[04:28] <mdke> seb128, lovely, thanks for doing that
[04:29] <seb128> mdke: np, thank you for coordinating that :)
[04:29] <Kamion> pitti_live: missing powerpc fixed for the next round of builds
[04:29] <pitti_live> cool
[04:31] <bddebian> Since I am not getting an answer in #u-motu or #u-bugs, what person/team should I move a main bug to?  It's assigned to MOTU's currently but it's a main package?
[04:32] <Kamion> bddebian: "nobody"
[04:33] <Kamion> main bugs shouldn't be assigned to a team unless that team's actually working on it
[04:34] <bddebian> Kamion: OK, thx
[04:34] <bddebian> Though the supplied patch does work :-)
[04:34] <pitti_live> bddebian: which bug in particular?
[04:34] <bddebian> Malone bug 4587
[04:34] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 4587 in bittornado "[PATCH]  bittornado absolute icon path and specs problems" [Normal,Rejected]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/4587
[04:36] <pitti_live> oh, rejected
[04:37] <pitti_live> have to reboot to get espresso to a clean state again, brb
[04:37] <bddebian> Rejected?
[04:37] <bddebian> Oh rejected for Dapper but open in Ubuntu
[04:38] <Treenaks> ah, so Seveas' bot is buggy ;)
[04:38] <Seveas> hmm
[04:38] <Seveas> meh
[04:39] <Seveas> will fix
[04:43] <jcole> are there any open source launchpad equivs out there?
[04:43] <jcole> better yet, is launchpad open source?
[04:43] <fabbione> bddebian: pong?
[04:51] <pitti_live> bah, yay xchat-gnome
[04:52] <BenC> is there any reason that devices like /dev/usb/hiddev0 are not actually there?
[04:53] <BenC> usbhid is loaded, but hiddev# devices are not in the device tree
[04:55] <sladen> jcole: LP isn't Free Software yet.  it will be one day.  When it has so much market share that nothing else can compete...  Sourceforge/etc are the closest elsewhere.
[04:55] <jcole> sladen: ok, i understand, thanks
[05:00] <jcole> sladen: simple question (not), at my company, we use http://linuxcoe.sourceforge.net/ to net-install various distros... right now, we're trying to figure out a way so people can contribute their own packages...
[05:00] <jcole> sladen: we were thinking about something along the lines of a user only contributing a source package, and then have an auto-build system that creates binary packages for the various distros... any suggestions?
[05:00] <joelbryan> Hi, anyone please check out Bug #38426
[05:00] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 38426 in ubuntu-meta ubuntu-desktop "A software to get live chat support in #ubuntu." [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/38426
[05:04] <sebest> it seems bootcamp boots ubuntu too
[05:05] <sebest> http://theweeklyrant.com/article/8/news-apple-bootcamp-boots-linux
[05:05] <jcole> sladen: i've mentioned it here before, this is an example -> http://www.instalinux.com/cgi-bin/coe_bootimage.cgi
[05:07] <sladen> jcole: in theory you can create deriviatives very easily under launchpad.  You could ask on #launchpad what the current status of that is
[05:08] <sladen> jcole: who are "people", are they people internally to your company?  You can do a fair amount just by rebuilding the current install CDs and tweaking the pre-seed lists (which I think is what linuxcoe might be doing anyway)
[05:08] <jcole> sladen: so, launchpad is the closest tool for the type of thing we are looking for?
[05:09] <bddebian> fabbione: Ahh, sorry.  How is your imake/xmkmf foo? :-)
[05:10] <fabbione> bddebian: so what is the next question?
[05:10] <jcole> sladen: yes, what also makes it complicated is the combinations of distros and architectures
[05:10] <fabbione> bddebian: just ask please :)
[05:10] <jcole> sladen: ya, i'm the one making the ubuntu netinstall cds
[05:10] <bddebian> fabbione: I think ivtools is exporting the wrong XCONFDIR path which is breaking the mxv build but I'm not getting it to take my changes on building ivtools
[05:11] <Kamion> sebest: as previously mentioned, yeah, the installer boots under it, but you won't be able to install a bootloader and thereby complete the install
[05:11] <jcole> sladen: i've created one for x86, amd64, ia64, and hppa
[05:11] <Kamion> sebest: so it's fine for live CDs if you don't want to install them
[05:11] <fabbione> bddebian: ok.. put the source somewhere with a proper explanation of what needs to be changed.. i will look at it when i have time
[05:11] <jcole> sladen: also used bits from ports
[05:13] <sladen> sebest: my hunch is that it's checking for an NTFS partition and knows specifically how to boot that from the hard-disk
[05:14] <sebest> i saw that mjg59 worked on getting ubuntu working on mac hardware, how is the bootloader handled?
[05:14] <sebest> it uses something like elilo?
[05:15] <Kamion> sebest: elilo, yes
[05:15] <Kamion> sebest: once you've booted using bootcamp, you can't talk to EFI to install elilo
[05:15] <sebest> Kamion, does elilo support dualboot with macosx?
[05:15] <Kamion> sebest: I don't know; don't see why not though
[05:16] <Kamion> sebest: (I think the above claim about installing elilo may be a bit of a simplification, but it's certainly true in the short term at least)
[05:16] <bddebian> fabbione: Actually I think my only problem is that buildpackage re-extracts the tarball everytime and overwrites my changes.  Does that mean I have to add a patching system and a patch?
[05:16] <sebest> Kamion, in the long term it may be interesting to support bootcamp for the virtualisation features: running both os side by side
[05:17] <Kamion> sebest: if you're willing to install the bootloader yourself, then there's no problem really supporting bootcamp
[05:17] <Kamion> although apparently their VGA implementation isn't all that great
[05:17] <fabbione> bddebian: eh.. what do you think?
[05:17] <bddebian> fabbione: I don't think, that's my problem :)
[05:17] <bddebian> OK, sorry
[05:17] <fabbione> :)
[05:18] <sebest> Kamion, that's still a beta, things may change until they releas it in 6 months or more
[05:18] <bddebian> Fuck, I hate deviating that far from the Debian package :-(
[05:18] <infinity> bddebian: Why on earth would you need to add a patch system?
[05:18] <Kamion> sebest: sure, but to some extent we have to deal with what we've got now - and it *would* be better to get away from the legacy stuff if we can
[05:18] <infinity> bddebian: Show me your current patch against the package.
[05:18] <bddebian> infinity: Because it doesn't have one?
[05:18] <ogra> bddebian, for some i'd love to just redo them ....
[05:18] <infinity> bddebian: You don't need a patch system to patch a package.  What do you think difd.gz is all about?
[05:19] <bddebian> ogra: You should see maelstrom :_)
[05:19] <infinity> diff, too.
[05:19] <bddebian> infinity: Oh, I don't know about diff.gz Hmm
[05:19] <bddebian> Oh well yes I do
[05:19] <ogra> bddebian, thanks, i already have to wear my xray proof glasses to no go blind here ;)
[05:20] <bddebian> infinity: But dpkg-buildpackage overwites my source changes anytime I run it
[05:20] <Kamion> bddebian: then either you're doing it wrong, or the package is overwriting stuff, not dpkg-buildpackage
[05:21] <bddebian> Kamion: The package is yes
[05:21] <Kamion> if you're editing in build-tree/, then it's probably got a patch system and you just haven't found it yet :)
[05:26] <bddebian> fabbione: One quick question.  SHouldn't XCONFDIR be /etc/X11/config rather than /usr/lib/X11/config (which doesn't exist)
[05:27] <fabbione> bddebian: i think so ..
[05:29] <bddebian> Bah, you folks are useless.. ;-P
[05:29] <bddebian> Just kidding
[05:29] <jsgotangco> lol
[05:31] <bddebian> Heya LaserJock
[05:31] <LaserJock> hi bddebian 
[05:31] <LaserJock> I can't imagine you being hated at all :-)
[05:32] <bddebian> LaserJock: Hang out in #d-d for a little bit ;-P
[05:32] <mvo> lol
[05:32] <LaserJock> oh, I don't think so d-d (IRC and ML) scare me
[05:33] <LaserJock> I'm glad d-d wasn't my first look at Debian. I would have stayed with Gentoo ;-)
[05:38] <jsgotangco> its a nice cave indeed
[05:45] <bddebian> Damnit, I'm going to have to strip ivtools again :(
[05:52] <infinity> Kamion: Care to do some NBS removals?... The out-of-date output is getting rather messy (kernels, LRM, libsexy, d-i-utils..)
[05:53] <bandini> mmh pdftops from poppler-utils seems to produce broken .ps files. Anyone else seeing this? (haven't found anything on bugzilla.fd.org & launchpad)
[05:54] <Kamion> infinity: I would but archive-cruft-check is broken at the moment
[05:55] <infinity> Kamion: Oh.  Then never mind. :)  I can read around the cruft.
[05:55] <Kamion> infinity: I'll try to do some slightly more manually checked ones once I've finished caning my network connection with a d-i daily upload
[05:56] <infinity> Kamion: One simple removal you could do is the 'xmkmf' source package from universe (and corresponding binary).. It's been eaten by imake in main.
[05:56] <infinity> Kamion: Was causing some sketchy FTBFSs that I had to track down, due to the whacky conflicts and provides going on between imake and xmkmf.
[06:00] <bddebian> fabbione, or anyone else brave enough to looK:  Here is what I am trying to do to ivtools:  http://www2.bddebian.com:8000/packages/ubuntu/ivtools/ivtools-1.1.3.diff
[06:03] <infinity> bddebian: And which part isn't sticking?  The last bit?
[06:04] <bddebian> infinity: The src/scripts/ivmkmf stuff afaict
[06:06] <azeem> maybe that file gets generated during build?
[06:06] <infinity> Most likely.  Looking anyway.
[06:07] <Kamion> infinity: ok, that's not an NBS so wouldn't have been caught by the cruft-checker anyway; will do after this publisher run
[06:07] <infinity> I wonder if it's bad that I'm still working at 2am.
[06:07] <infinity> Kamion: Yeah, I know it's not NBS, it was an afterthought. :)
[06:12] <bddebian> infinity: No, it's great :-)
[06:15] <Toadstool> heya here, sorry to bother you with a very low priority task, but anyone to check and maybe upload the latest debdiff I added to bug 36505?
[06:15] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 36505 in lintian "Ubuntu Lintian shouldn't do the nmu checks" [Wishlist,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/36505
[06:16] <Toadstool> it's an ubuntu lintian "customization"
[06:17] <infinity> bddebian: I'm not sure what you were doing wrong, but when I apply your patch to a freshly-unpacked package, build a source package, then do a binary build from that, it works great.  Want me to sign and upload based on what I have here? :)
[06:19] <bddebian> infinity: What does /usr/lib/ivtools/config/config.mk look like?
[06:20] <infinity> bddebian: Wrong, in several special ways.
[06:20] <infinity> XCONFIGDIR = /usr/lib/X11/config
[06:20] <infinity> ABSTOP = /home/adconrad/foo/ivtools-1.1.3
[06:20] <bddebian> Yep :-)
[06:20] <infinity> But that's has nothing to do with the include directories in that other file you messed with, afaict.
[06:21] <bddebian> XCONFIGDIR should get set to /etc/X11/config
[06:21] <bddebian> Even if I run xmkmf and imake I still get that crap
[06:22] <infinity> Just means your imake template isn't getting used.
[06:26] <infinity> bddebian: Okay, I think I spot the issue here, but I also need to get some sleep and not look at this when I'm in a haze of confusion.
[06:26] <infinity> bddebian: Can you poke me tomorrow, and I'll fix it up?
[06:31] <bddebian> infinity: Of course, thanks man
[06:33] <mdz> Keybuk: yes, I don't much care for the idea of bugs assigned to teams
[06:33] <mdz> Keybuk: subscription leaves assignment open for an "I'll handle this request" workflow
[06:33] <mdz> Keybuk: of course, some people ignore the instructions and assign to the team anyway
[06:35] <Kamion> infinity: xmkmf removed
[06:35] <bddebian> removed?
[06:36] <bddebian> infinity: BTW, let me know if there is any way I can help the X Swat team with bugs even though I'm not a main uploader
[06:37] <danimo> Keybuk: around?
[06:38] <Kamion> bddebian: superseded by imake
[06:39] <bddebian> Kamion: Really?  I thought you still needed to run xmkmf prior to imake? I.E. xmkmf -> Imakefile -> imake -> Makefile ?
[06:40] <Kamion> bddebian: xmkmf is in the imake package now
[06:40] <Kamion> so there is no longer a need for the xmkmf package
[06:40] <Kamion> see infinity's request above
[06:40] <bddebian> Ah, OK, sorry
[06:40] <ogra> oh, youre on a removal quest ? 
[06:41] <Kamion> ogra: not especially, but do you have something urgent?
[06:41] <ogra> the ltsp-client-builder and power-manager sources could go as well ...
[06:41] <ogra> not urgent 
[06:41] <Kamion> ogra: can you give a reason for each, please? "superseded by <some other package>" is a good reason, for example
[06:41] <Kamion> I need it for the record
[06:42] <ogra> ok, ltsp-client-builder is included in ltsp since dapper 
[06:42] <Kamion> ogra: the ltsp-client-builder source went away ages ago
[06:42] <ogra> hmm, LP still shows them both for me ...
[06:42] <Kamion> like pre-soyuz
[06:42] <Kamion> ltsp-client-builder |    0.1.0-5 |        breezy | source
[06:42] <Kamion> ltsp-client-builder |    0.1.0-5 | breezy/main/debian-installer | all
[06:42] <Kamion> ltsp-client-builder |       0.84 | dapper/main/debian-installer | all
[06:42] <Kamion> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/ltsp-client-builder says "removed"
[06:42] <ogra> ok
[06:43] <Kamion> and if you're looking at https://launchpad.net/people/ogra/+packages then it says "Ubuntu Breezy"
[06:43] <bddebian> Hmm, what to "fix" now then
[06:43] <Kamion> ogra: ok, what was power-manager replaced by?
[06:43] <ogra> power-manager was the helper for gnome-powermanager before we had it integrated properly
[06:44] <ogra> its superseded by gdm or the libpam stuff mjg59 added, as you like 
[06:45] <Kamion> libpam-foreground?
[06:45] <ogra> yeah
[06:45] <ogra> couldnt remember the right name 
[06:45] <pitti> ugh, that espresso bug did a fairly good job of ruining my boot loader :/
[06:46] <Kamion> ok, in future please try to make it your responsibility to provide these details, I don't want to have to do lots of research every time
[06:46] <Riddell> Kamion: kde espresso is good to merge if you want
[06:46] <dholbach> Kamion: are you removing stuff from the archive atm?
[06:46] <ogra> first g-p-m used gdm instead of the power-manager backend, laetr libpam-foreground
[06:46] <ogra> *later
[06:46] <Kamion> dholbach: apparently so
[06:46] <dholbach> Kamion: could you please remove evolution-caldav? it was merged into evolution-data-server.
[06:46] <Kamion> ogra: power-manager done
[06:46] <ogra> thanks :)
[06:47] <ogra> Kinnison, would it be possible to have the release numbers instead of the release names in https://launchpad.net/people/ogra/+packages ? 
[06:48] <Kamion> dholbach: done
[06:48] <dholbach> Kamion: merci
[06:48] <Kinnison> ogra: ask kiko
[06:48] <ogra> sorting by distro release gets a bit unsorted since its alphabetical
[06:48] <Kamion> dholbach: would a replaces or provides or something somewhere on evolution-caldav be a good idea
[06:48] <Kamion> ?
[06:48] <ogra> Kinnison, thanks... i'll wait until he drops the -zzz then :)
[06:48] <Amaranth> ick, en_GB got into my /etc/environment again
[06:49] <dholbach> Kamion: hmmm - might be
[06:55] <bddebian> The source packages for python2.3-* are pretty much gone from the archive correct?
[06:55] <bddebian> Like python2.3-numeric, etc
[06:56] <dholbach> mdke: the newest ubuntu-docs seem to have problems with scrollkeeper update processing
[06:56] <bddebian> Oh, maybe they are from the python2.3 package
[06:57] <mdke> dholbach, I see it. making a note to fix it sometime
[06:57] <dholbach> ok cool
[07:02] <bddebian> Hmm, have I gone over my quota of dumb questions for the day?
[07:02] <azeem> you now have
[07:03] <bddebian> Bah, crawl back to Debian azeem ;-P
[07:03] <bddebian> j/k
[07:04] <azeem> oh, I thought you were serious :P
[07:05] <bddebian> Kamion: Is python2.3-numeric, et al completely gone from the archive?
[07:10] <Kamion> bddebian: if you want me to look things up for you, you need to be more specific than "et al", but yes, python2.3-numeric is no longer in dapper
[07:11] <bddebian> Kamion: Sorry, I'm lookint at Malone bug 37625
[07:11] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 37625 in matplotlib python2.3-matplotlib "python2.3-matplotlib has unavailable dependencies" [Major,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/37625
[07:13] <zyga> hello
[07:13] <bddebian> Hello zyga
[07:13] <doko> bddebian: either port it to 2.4, or you have to duplicate all the sources, i.e. copy the python-numarray source to python2.3-numarray and just build the 2.3 module
[07:14] <bddebian> doko: That was kind of what I was getting at I guess.  Is our "policy" that 2.3 just isn't "supported" any longer?
[07:14] <doko> bddebian: correct
[07:14] <bddebian> Great, then I'll just remove the 2.3 deps, thanks
[07:38] <dborg> et merc available (ts2 only) but tell me early :>
[07:45] <joelbryan> How will I edit System > Help > stuff?
[07:47] <pitti> YAY SYNCS!!!
[07:51] <jsgotangco> good night too
[07:59] <pef> can someone with main upload privileges have a look at this pbuilder bug ? a debdiff is provided :) #38456
[08:00] <pef> (thanks)
[08:09] <mdke> joelbryan, you can't edit it, it's provided by the ubuntu-docs package
[08:10] <mdke> joelbryan, the links themselves are in gnome-panel
[08:10] <ogra> you could join the doctem to edit it :)
[08:10] <ogra> *docteam
[08:10] <mdke> ogra, our strings are freezing today :D
[08:10] <ogra> oh ? why that ? 
[08:10] <mdke> we want to allow more time for translation
[08:11] <ogra> but you are freezing before the UI
[08:11] <ogra> that can get complicated
[08:11] <mdke> yes. if anything changes, it will be updated, and announced to the translators
[08:11] <Kamion> pef: uploaded, thanks; I've left the bug for you to close
[08:11] <ogra> i.e. edubuntu hanst even remotely its final artwork
[08:11] <bddebian> Ack, why did I pick an ace bug ugh
[08:11] <ogra> all screenshots would be shallow 
[08:11] <pef> Kamion: thank you :)
[08:12] <mdke> ogra, screenshots aren't strings. They aren't frozen. But anyway, we hardly use screenshots.
[08:12] <ogra> ah
[08:12] <mdke> and edubuntu docs aren't frozen either
[08:16] <Kamion> Riddell: merged and pushed, thanks; sorry for the delay, I got distracted by archive stuff
[08:16] <ogra> mdke, i know ... i'll be the one who freezes them :)
[08:16] <ogra> since i write a bunch of them :)
[08:17] <mdke> ogra, quite :)
[08:18] <ogra> (in fact highvoltage writes the base and i just flesh it out a bit and fix ubuntu specifics in ltsp docs)
[09:40] <sivang> Kamion: ping, around?
[09:42] <sivang> Kamion: how good is the support for NTFS resize in d-i currently ? 
[09:53] <Burgwork> sivang, ntfs is pretty good, provided the ntfs drive is not heavily fragmented
[09:56] <sivang> Burgwork: cool, have you tried it yourself ? (finally got a GOOD t43p and I need to resize :) )
[09:56] <Burgwork> sivang, not recently, but I did use it for the first install
[09:56] <sivang> Burgwork: Have you had free space on the drive with it?
[09:57] <sivang> (stupid preloaders consumed all the disk)
[09:57] <Burgwork> say again?
[09:57] <sivang> Burgwork: prior to resizing, have you had any free space unpartitioned from the NTFS partitoin?
[09:57] <Burgwork> nope
[09:58] <sivang> Burgwork: cool then ;) let's see if it works well with dapper flight 6 
[10:02] <mroth> win 4
[10:02] <mroth> whoops :-)
[10:08] <jdong> what does preload do in Dapper right now, if I were to install it?
[10:08] <jdong> I know in SUSE 10 it's used as an adaptive readahead and prefetcher for firefox, OOo, and system bootup (others, too)
[10:16] <Treenaks> jdub: An image for your 'Ubuntu PowerPC CDs' quote: http://www.worth1000.com/emailthis.asp?entry=274562 
[10:24] <dieman> hmm
[10:24] <dieman> it'd be fun to get my hands on a sun niagra t2000 box and host some of the ubuntu release bittorrents to see how it works out
[10:24] <dieman> if i could get sun to ship me one and get ubuntu on it ;)
[11:20] <KaiL_> ALSA lib pcm_dmix.c:819:(snd_pcm_dmix_open) unable to open slave
[11:20] <KaiL_> what does that mean?
[11:23] <sladen> KaiL_: related to software mixing
[11:23] <sladen> please file against alsa-utils
[11:25] <KaiL_> might also be some config remaining fom breezy times..?
[11:25] <KaiL_> eh, hoary
[11:31] <dholbach> good night guys
[11:46] <KaiL_> sladen, dmix got automatically enabled on that update?
[11:47] <KaiL_> ah, gone..