/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2006/04/11/#ubuntu-doc.txt

frank_robotgeek: ok. I can send the patch to mailing list12:07
frank_robotgeek: which ever you prefer12:08
robotgeekfrank_: send it to list (public record of contribution)12:08
frank_robotgeek: ok12:08
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robotgeekhey unclocked Kyral 12:08
Kyralhuh?12:09
Kyralunclocked?12:09
robotgeekuncloaked, err12:09
Kyralyah12:09
KyralI forgot to set my IDENTIFY command to fire off12:09
Kyralhmm12:10
Kyralthis Beyond patchset seems a little more...snappy12:10
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frank_robotgeek: I don't know if the patch made it to the list. I just changed email12:13
robotgeekfrank_: did you subscribe and stuff?12:14
frank_robotgeek: well I had subscribed before. I changed my email address in my existing account. I don't know if that worked12:15
robotgeekfrank_: probably not, don't get anything here :)12:15
frank_robotgeek: ok I just got the confirmation email. it just took a while :)12:15
frank_robotgeek: I can send it again. It might double post12:16
robotgeekfrank_: heh, double post then and keep it under 40 kb :)12:17
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frank_robotgeek: this time the patch should make it to the list. anything else I can do?12:23
robotgeekfrank_: just look at the guide as a whole, and see if we can polish in any way?12:24
robotgeekfrank_: havent received it yet12:30
LaserJockBurgwork: I'm taking care of Red_Herring ;-)12:31
frank_robotgeek: it should have worked.12:31
=== robotgeek should have taken care of Red_Herring
BurgworkLaserJock, with a bat I hope :)12:32
robotgeekfrank_: maybe cc to me?12:32
robotgeekor resend, err12:33
trappistI've got a validation failure from an xref to another file in the same manual.  how should a file know to include (or parse?) another file to resolve xrefs?12:35
robotgeektrappist: try to validate the main document12:36
trappistin the packaging guide that should be packagingguide.xml?12:36
robotgeektrappist: yup12:37
trappistgotcha.  that validates.12:37
frank_robotgeek: ok I sent it again with you as cc12:38
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robotgeekfrank_: heh, did not get it. is it working :)12:40
frank_robotgeek: I have no idea. yahoo is lazy12:41
robotgeekfrank_: okay, i guess i'll just wait12:42
frank_robotgeek: If I proof read another section, will you have time to incude it? how hard is the deadline?12:47
robotgeekfrank_: yes, we'll have time12:47
frank_robotgeek: which one should I do?12:48
robotgeekfrank_: did you find any changes to make. 12:48
=== robotgeek needs to get coffee (productivity is going down)
LaserJocktrappist: wow, you're touching my baby ;-)12:49
frank_robotgeek: I'm sure there are small things anywhere... I could do common-tasks12:51
robotgeekfrank_: cool12:51
LaserJockBurgwork: hmmm, I think I should have taken your suggestion :s12:53
BurgworkLaserJock, indeed12:54
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robotgeekfrank_: still not received, is this from your original email address?12:55
frank_robotgeek: I tried from both12:55
robotgeekfrank_: finally, recvd12:55
robotgeekfrank_: mind if i add your name to the list of contributors?01:05
frank_sure: Franois LeBlanc01:06
robotgeekfrank_: will be up in next patchset :)01:07
frank_robotgeek: cool01:08
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avoineif i want to help translate xml file like the Ubuntu Start Guide i have to search it in rosetta or he is somewhere else?01:17
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Burgworkhmm, this lulu thing is getting bigger than I expected01:20
robotgeekavoine: it will be uploaded to rosetta shortly01:21
jjesseavoine: the docs haven't been uploaded yet01:21
avoineok01:21
frank_robotgeek: it's taking time but I'm progressing. when do you need it for?01:30
robotgeekfrank_: jjesse http://www.robotgeek.org/kubuntu/ch05.html01:30
robotgeekfrank_: official deadline is half an hour away, maybe by tommorow?01:31
frank_robotgeek: oh. I'll finish now. but not in half an hour ;)01:31
robotgeekfrank_: how is the reorg, look betteR?01:32
jjessefrank__: don't worry i' should have a bunch comming in tomorrow when i get to work and have a high speed connection01:32
frank_robotgeek: it looks better yeah01:33
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jjesserobotgeek`did you update the desktopgudie for add/remove programs?01:38
robotgeekjjesse: yes01:38
jjessedo you like it?  i perfer adept and apt or it01:39
robotgeeki just use apt, it does look easy to use01:40
jjessei struggle with it, i can't find all packages for some reason01:41
robotgeekjjesse: http://doc.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/desktopguide/C/ch03s02.html 01:41
robotgeekjjesse: we can mention it, and mornfall can fix bugs across time :)01:42
jjesserobotgeek: but i'm struggeling describing it for my chapter:(01:42
robotgeekjjesse: i wrote something in about 15 minutes, copied over some stuff from UDG too :)01:44
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frank_is there a shockwave plugin for konqueror? I don't think so02:04
robotgeekfrank_: doesn't flashplayer isntall that?02:06
frank_robotgeek: there is a flash player. but some shockwave things are impossible to play in linux I think.02:07
robotgeekfrank_: hmm, okay. 02:07
robotgeekfrank_: if you make the change in the patch, i'll commit tommorow?02:08
frank_robotgeek: ok.02:09
robotgeekfrank_: great, i gotta run now. cook food :)02:09
frank_robotgeek: ok ;)02:10
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frank_WINE is not an emulator, but what is it exactly? in 2 words02:55
jjessewinows emulator02:58
frank_no: Wine Is Not an Emulator02:59
jsgotangcoreverse_engineered_windows_subsystem03:00
jsgotangcohah 1 word03:00
frank_jsgotangco: lol. yeah03:00
jsgotangcobut yeah its not a windows emulator per se03:01
trappistit's a win32 api implementation for unix03:10
trappistit's an emulator by the dictionary definition of the word, but not the traditional IT definition, in that it doesn't emulate hardware03:11
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jsgotangcotrappist, that's 7 words03:14
jsgotangcoheh03:14
LaserJocktrappist: ping?03:20
trappistpong03:20
LaserJocktrappist: did you just fix grammar/spelling on the packaging guide?03:21
trappistnot all of it, but yeah03:21
trappistwhy?03:21
trappistI'm on bugs.xml now03:21
LaserJockI'm just trying to get a run down of what you are doing03:22
trappisthow do you mean?03:22
LaserJockwhy did you change the appendix to a chapter?03:22
LaserJockdoh, need to read the next commit ;-)03:23
trappistI changed that back - it didn't validate, but then I learned to validate the parent instead, so I changed it b... yeah :)03:23
LaserJockdid you have problems with indentation?03:24
trappisthere and there, maybe.  I wasn't aiming to mess with it, since afaik we have no standards for it, but I tried to keep it sorta consistent.03:24
LaserJockwell, I've had a hard time with consistency so any help is apprecitated. I'm still trying to learn how to use vim :-)03:25
LaserJockand I copy-n-paste from other people sometimes03:26
trappistit makes it a little easier if you have set ai, set ts=4 and set sw=4 in your .vimrc03:26
trappistfor copy and paste:03:26
trappistput set pastetoggle=<F12> in your .vimrc, and hit F12 in insert mode, and vim will stop messing with your indentation until you hit F12 again03:26
LaserJockdo you use tabs or spaces, generally?03:27
trappisttabs03:28
LaserJockhmm, it seems like lots of problems with commas03:29
trappistyeah :)03:29
LaserJockI haven't had to remember so much grammar since grade school :-)03:30
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frank_when I build the desktop guide, can I make something other than html?  like a pdf?03:30
LaserJockfrank_: pdf's are a bit harder because you need some non-free stuff03:32
frank_LaserJock: really? I thought pdf was an open format03:32
frank_well postscript then03:33
LaserJockit is, but the app that is used to create them isn't exactly03:33
LaserJockfop is what you need03:34
frank_what is the app that makes pdfs? just curious03:35
LaserJockhttp://xmlgraphics.apache.org/fop/03:36
LaserJockif you look at ubuntu/Makefile there is a rule to make pdfs03:37
LaserJockbut you need fop.sh I think03:37
frank_LaserJock: ok03:38
frank_LaserJock: so this uses fop to make pdfs but ghostscript can make them completely freely, right? just not in this case03:40
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LaserJockfrank_: it is more involved than just "making a pdf"03:41
frank_LaserJock: ok I admit my ignorance ;)03:41
LaserJockfrank_: I think the only reason we don't have fop is because it is java-based which is a problem for Ubuntu since Sun's Java can't be included in the repos03:42
frank_LaserJock: well once gij get better, maybe it will be03:42
LaserJockfrank_: lol, I don't know much about it myself03:42
trappistI think it's because it's part of the ant project, which has an iffy license03:42
LaserJockoh, well that could be too03:42
LaserJockanyway, I think you can download if from http://www.wmwweb.com/apache/xmlgraphics/fop/03:43
LaserJockand then you can just run "make pdf"03:43
LaserJockI'm trying it myself right now03:44
frank_did my patch  [patch]  proofread common-tasks.xml for kubuntu desktop guide   make it to the list this time?03:45
frank_my new yahoo mail account doesn't seem to be sending anything03:45
jsgotangcofrank_, there's no patch sent to the list yet03:48
frank_gah...03:49
LaserJocktrappist: thanks :-)04:08
LaserJocktrappist: have you gone through the whole thing?04:08
trappiston the last file now04:08
trappistubuntu.xml04:08
LaserJockgreat04:08
LaserJocknow I hope I don't mess up what you have done04:08
trappistheh04:25
LaserJockfrank_: yeah! I see an email ;-)04:27
frank_there! gmail can actually send emails. My new yahoo.ca account couldn't :(04:27
frank_can we see preliminary versions of the Official Ubuntu Book?04:28
KyralAll Members should get a free copy :P04:29
jjessethen how would they make money?04:29
jjesse:)04:30
KyralHow many members are there compared to users? :P04:30
LaserJockjjesse: I was just going to say that ;-)04:30
KyralMeh :P04:31
jsgotangcoheh04:32
KyralIt was an idea lol04:32
jsgotangcoif canonical can send a million cds to anyone, it won't go down the drain sending 100+ copies of the book to the 100+ members listed in LP lol04:33
jjessedon't forget prentince hall needs some money04:33
Kyralyup yup04:33
jsgotangcojjesse, im sure you're very much aware that the book publisher sends a good number of books to the author for free04:34
jjessejsgotangco: yeah i know04:35
jsgotangcoits up to the author to give them away or sell them at a lower price04:35
jsgotangcoeven recording artists have the same scheme04:35
jsgotangcobtw you guys might be intested at this04:35
jsgotangcohttp://oss.mri.co.jp/i2oss/04:35
jsgotangcomost of whats included in the docs were results from the experiment last year04:36
trappistLaserJock: got a sec?04:47
LaserJocksure do04:47
trappistneed to know what you're meaning to say here, re: merging with debian...04:47
trappistThe merging process involves looking at the changes to both the Debian and Ubuntu source packages and determining.04:47
trappistdetermining what?04:47
LaserJockwhat has changed04:48
trappistgreat! thanks04:48
LaserJockwhat stuff is specific to Ubuntu04:48
LaserJockso when we go to sync from Debian and there is an existing Ubuntu version of the package there are two options04:49
trappistright.  I follow you now.04:49
LaserJock1) Debian has made all the changes we did and we can use there packages directly. We call that a sync04:49
LaserJock2) We need to carry our changes to the new packages. That is a merge04:50
trappistright.  got that from the previous section.04:50
trappists/section/paragraph/04:50
LaserJockk04:50
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jjessewhat's the address for reporting bugs again?  launchpad.net/malone correct?04:53
trappistyeah04:53
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LaserJockit kinda depends04:56
jjessehttps://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+bugs  ?04:57
trappistLaserJock: did you happen to check with barry defreese whether he's ok with having his email addy in these docs (as an example)?04:57
trappistdo you think I should change it to something made up?04:57
jjessemake it billg@microsoft.com :)04:57
trappistthat works :)04:57
LaserJocktrappist: umm, well that doesn't work so well04:58
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trappistwhy's that?04:58
LaserJockI used the actual diffs04:58
trappistright, but is that necessary, do you think?04:58
LaserJockmaybe not, but his email is all over the package anyway. I can ask him I suppose04:59
trappisteven if you're hoping for the user to follow along and get more or less the same results as in the doc, I don't think anyone will get lost if something like that is altered.04:59
LaserJockI hadn't really thought about it04:59
LaserJockI've just been using verbatim what you get04:59
trappistI'd html-entity-ize it to keep it from the spam spiders, but I'm pretty sure the html conversion will undo that04:59
robotgeekfrank23: same as frank_ ?05:00
LaserJocktrappist: well, it can't be any worse than it already is but we can certainly change it, to be safe05:00
trappistLaserJock: I'll leave it alone for now.  I figure he won't mind - his email address gets plenty of exposure as it is.05:00
trappistbut it'd probably be nice to check with him05:01
LaserJockit really doesn't hurt to change it, I was just using the diff's verbatim05:01
trappistaight05:01
robotgeektrappist: who, billy G?05:02
trappistheh05:02
LaserJocki'd prefer not him05:02
LaserJockhe might claim the packaging guide in a few years ;-)05:02
robotgeekit would be funny!05:02
trappistLaserJock: I was going with that for the humor angle, but since it's your doc I'm going to leave it as-is so you can put what you like there05:03
trappistif 6 months from now bill gates is regarded as kindly as hitler, I don't want it to be my fault that he's in our docs :)05:03
=== robotgeek bows to klippers awesomeness
robotgeekcptn@killklippy.com05:04
trappistrobotgeek: http://linuxkungfu.org/images/shots/?image=3905:05
robotgeektrappist: http://vigor.sourceforge.net/05:06
LaserJockok, I'm locking myself in the computer room. I have to finish this tonight :/05:07
trappistrobotgeek: that's awesome.05:07
trappistLaserJock: yeah I just had to tell my baby sister to "kick rocks, I got a string freeze"05:08
=== LaserJock gets out his vim cheat sheet
LaserJockhmm, how do you get folding to work?05:10
robotgeekLaserJock: zM05:10
trappistdepends on how you want it to work.  I say set foldmethod=marker and use {{{ and }}} foldmarkers05:10
jjesserobotgeek: i looked through the add/remove programs section of desktop guide and it lokos great05:11
frank23robotgeek: yeah05:11
robotgeekjjesse: cool, thanks05:11
robotgeekfrank23: heh, confusing!05:11
jjessealso updated release notes to match the new author guidelines and also about kubuntu guide... will commit tomorrow at work05:12
jjessealso about ubuntu had references to bugzilla which i changed and will comitt tomorrow at work05:12
robotgeekjjesse: good work!05:12
jjessealso finished kubuntu chapter for the book... hopefully not too much will change05:13
robotgeekjjesse: always worried!05:13
jjesserobotgeek: things look great good job05:14
trappistI'm done with the packaging guide.  any votes on what should be proofread next, or should I just keep going in pseudorandom order?05:14
robotgeekjjesse: ty05:14
trappist(I'm gonna be a linux guru by the time I'm done proofreading all this)05:15
LaserJocktrappist: did you get an overall feel for the difficulty level?05:16
frank23robotgeek: I can do more proofreading tomorrow for kdg if it's not too late05:17
robotgeekfrank23: that would be great05:18
robotgeekfrank23: since i am guessing that most of the changes will be minor, i don't think there will be an issue05:18
frank23robotgeek: ok. Yeah I won't add any sections or anything05:18
LaserJockrobotgeek: what does your .vim/xmlfold.vim file look like?05:19
robotgeekfrank23: thanks! i am too sapped right now to think05:20
robotgeekLaserJock: i think its a plugin i got from vim.sf.net05:20
LaserJockk05:20
robotgeekLaserJock: http://robotgeek.org/dotfiles/vim05:20
LaserJockoh, nice. thanks05:21
trappistLaserJock: yeah, and a great overview of the process.  I think I'm right smack in the middle of your target audience.  Great doc!05:22
trappistrobotgeek: tomorrow's not too late to get some proofreading in?  I don't have to stay up all night?05:23
LaserJocktrappist: it flowed ok? It has been pretty patchwork for me so far trying to get it put together05:23
robotgeektrappist: well, most of my major changes are already in. minor changes are ok, as long as they don't change structure maybe (not affect translators)05:23
trappistLaserJock: yeah I think it's well laid out and has a good narrative flow for a tech doc05:23
LaserJockok, great. thanks for checking it over. I'm just starting in this whole doc writing thing.05:24
trappistrobotgeek: right, that's what I was wondering - string freeze doesn't necessarily affect proofreading changes then?05:24
trappistLaserJock: the language is a little less formal in some places than in some of the rest of the docs, but I think that's a good thing.05:24
LaserJocktrappist: I think those are usually ones that I got from somebody else. I tried to go over them to keep a consistent voice05:25
trappistyeah I think you pulled that off nicely05:26
robotgeekLaserJock: if i manage to package stuff nicely, it will be thanks to you :)05:27
LaserJockwell, then you can thank the MOTU community. I have really learned a lot through this process05:30
jjessewow my brain is fried, have a good night i'm off to bed :)05:30
LaserJockcya jjesse 05:30
frank23robotgeek:  60 % Nerd, 30% Geek, 26% Dork  hehe05:31
robotgeekfrank23: heh05:31
robotgeekfrank23: lots of blog there :)05:33
jsgotangcohrrmmmm05:59
robotgeekhey jsgotangco 05:59
jsgotangcothat comment on bluefish is wrong06:00
jsgotangcobluefish can do docbook06:00
jsgotangcoit has docbook tags built in and has tag completion06:00
robotgeekjsgotangco: wiki :)06:01
=== jsgotangco lazy
robotgeekthat's why it helps to be a vim "enthusiast"06:03
LaserJockI like bluefish for a gui xml editor06:12
LaserJockwell, I guess that is second to gvim ;-)06:12
robotgeek:)06:13
jsgotangcoits fast if it only validated :/06:13
LaserJockhmm, that would be a nice key mapping to add to the .vimrc06:17
robotgeekLaserJock: :)06:18
LaserJocka key to run ~/ubuntu-doc/validate.sh06:18
LaserJockand svn commit06:18
LaserJockand ...06:18
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LaserJockarrghh, how do I put in a ; ?07:56
highvoltageyou press : without pressing shift :)07:59
highvoltage( lame joke ^^^^^ )07:59
=== LaserJock whaps highvoltage over the head with the Docbook Definitive Guide
highvoltageouch! how many trees did you kill to print that!?08:01
LaserJocklol08:01
LaserJockyou would think they would have a list of those somewhere08:01
highvoltagelist of trees that were killed?08:02
LaserJocklol, no08:02
LaserJockusually they tell you how to get the characters that have special meaning08:03
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LaserJockcrap, I can find how to do < and & but not ;08:07
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Madpilothi all08:13
LaserJockdoh, it wasn't complaining *about* the ; , but about the *lack of* ;  :(08:14
LaserJocktrappist: my new name and email addy are : Captain Packager <packager@coolness.com>08:16
LaserJockbtw, hi Madpilot 08:28
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mdkemorning08:31
manickaafternoon :)08:32
mdke:)08:33
mdkehow's it going in doc-land?08:34
robhello08:34
mdkeI see trappist has proof read the entire svn repository :)08:34
robvery nice!08:34
mdkehow are we looking on the old freeze?08:35
mdkecouple of tweaks still needed on the desktop guide, I think08:35
Madpilotmy poor inbox has been flooded with commit reports :P08:36
robmdke, any more thoughts on publishing the desktop guide?08:36
mdkerob, I'll mail about it.08:37
robok 08:38
mdkebottom line is that I'm sorry if Corey is embarassed by the guide, but i think he will be equally embarassed by publishing the guide online and in the distro08:38
robit generally will only be available online unless someone comes up with the fee to get an ISBN number08:38
mdkeI certainly don't think it would be a good idea to do that08:39
mdkeMadpilot, :) I'm gonna have a last look at the DG and try and sort out 3d graphics, and dvd. Anything else needs looking at?08:39
Madpilotnot that I can think of - not that we can get done before the freeze, anyway... ;)08:39
robmdke, I think his feelings are somewhat irrelivent due to the obvious conflict of intrest he has here08:40
Madpilotbtw, the ATI 3d stuff should work, it's identical to the Breezy info and it doesn't look like the packages have changed much/at all08:40
mdkerob, I don't think so.08:40
robs/irrelivent/irrelevant08:40
Burgundaviarob: there is conflict on interest08:40
LaserJockmdke: so when is the official doc freeze?08:40
Burgundaviarob: is no, I should say08:40
Burgundaviarob: I am not getting royalties from the book, so it does not matter how many copies sell08:40
mdkeLaserJock, about 8 hours ago. But we're quite flexible. I'll certainly check if there is anything each author wants to do still on each guide before making translations available08:41
robBurgundavia, but you are being paid for writing it..08:41
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Burgundaviarob: as are a whole bunch of other people in the doc team08:41
robhence, conflict of interest08:41
Burgundaviaif I was getting royalties, maybe08:41
LaserJockmdke: how long do you think we could realistically push the packaging guide and how much can we change after we give it to the translation teams?08:42
robfrom what I've seen, the only people vocal about it who are being paid in any way is yourself Burgundavia 08:42
Burgundaviarob: that I am working on the ubuntu book is completely not relevant to why I am objecting to the Lulu thing08:42
mdkerob, I don't think it's useful to accuse Corey of being biased, we need to try and answer his complaints. Don't forget the code of conduct tells us to avoid discussions which are personal08:43
mdkeLaserJock, I don't know. what's the status?08:43
LaserJockI can see both sides, I personally don't think the problem is as big as Corey thinks but I think it is a concern to think about08:43
LaserJocks/is/isn't/08:43
mdkeif we were gonna sell the book, like on Amazon or something, I would agree with Corey that there is a conflict issue with the official book08:44
mdkebut I don't think we should, this is simply something someone reading the book can do to get a hard copy without printing it themselves08:44
Burgundaviahow is lulu different from amazon?08:44
mdkeBurgundavia, people go to amazon to buy books08:44
mdkethey don't browse lulu looking for books08:45
LaserJockmdke: well, my main concern is getting some review from the dev community. I think I can finish tomorrow but I'd like to at least make sure I don't have any major policy violoations ;-)08:45
mdkethey go there if they've read the book, and read in it that they can get a printed copy there08:45
robsorry, I'm getting pulled away to deal with a bot net, I'm be back in a sec08:45
mdkeok08:45
Burgundaviathey why don't we trial with the packaging guide?08:46
mdkeLaserJock, ok, in that case I would say, we'll upload the translation tomorrow when its done, and you can change things if necessary at a later time. But try and get that done ASAP08:46
mdkeBurgundavia, I think we should trial with all the guides08:46
mdkeincluding (complete) translations08:46
Burgundaviaahh08:46
LaserJockmdke: yeah, I'm really sorry. My boss has really been cracking the whip :(08:46
mdkeLaserJock, np08:46
mdkeBurgundavia, to be honest, even if the only people to buy a copy are the occasional one of us, I won't be concerned at all08:47
LaserJockmdke: and to be honest, I expected more help :(08:47
mdkeyeah08:47
mdkeLaserJock, you've done an incredible job dude08:47
mdkewe've been lucky to have you08:47
LaserJockwell, this is my first doc project and I somewhat underestimated (suprise) how long it would take 08:48
mdkeincredible how these translators work, I've got 3 translations for the ff start page already08:48
BurgundaviaLaserJock: I have certainly learned that with the book08:48
LaserJockBurgundavia: really? cool08:49
LaserJockI had some interest today for a printed packaging guide08:49
Burgundaviagood docs take a long time to do08:49
LaserJockI think if I continue working on it (with the community) maybe by Dapper+1 it would be publishable on lulu08:49
BurgundaviaLaserJock: something unique like the packaging guide, it would be nice to get it done earlier on lulu08:50
LaserJockBurgundavia: I agree, but I'd probably want to make sure it is good ;-)08:51
LaserJockBurgundavia: and I have to play a little catch up08:51
mdkeLaserJock, I don't understand why people feel that to make these hard copies available, the documents have to be a better quality than they do when published online or in the distro08:51
mdkeits not like this book will be marketed, as I said08:51
mdkeit will simply be people who read the book, like it, and are prepared to pay the costs of production.08:52
LaserJockhmm, yes I suppose08:52
LaserJockwell, then I have at least 3 people that wanted print copies of the packaging guide today ;-)08:52
mdkeif the Desktop guide was as bad as Burgundavia thinks, he should be embarassed that its in the distro, and on the website08:52
mdkeright corey?08:52
Burgundaviamdke: to a certain extent, but people don't usually compare on screen docs to books08:53
MadpilotDid anyone apply Andreas Lloyd's UDG patch?08:54
LaserJockBurgundavia: I agree, but in this case I think we have a pretty good set of docs. And if we market it as a "printed copy of the shipped doc" then it makes sense08:54
Burgundaviahmm08:55
LaserJockI can see if we were charging $40USD for it or something08:55
mdkeMadpilot, no, I'll definitely have a look at it later on08:55
jsgotangcohmm08:55
BurgundaviaLaserJock: I want us to make a big splash of having a book, draw attention to ourselves08:55
jsgotangcowhat does that make us of mgalvin and jeffsch writing a book for manning?08:56
Madpilotmdke, I'll have a look at it now if it's unapplied - just lost track in the great flood of commit emails :P08:56
Burgundaviain order to do that well, we need a good product to back it iup08:56
mdkeBurgundavia, if that happens then it will be a wholly different thing. marketing, selling the book in stores, etc08:56
mdkethis is simply, "wanna copy but can't print? you can pay the costs of production"08:56
mdkejsgotangco, is that project still going?08:56
mdkeMadpilot, okay!08:57
jsgotangcomdke, of course08:57
mdkeblimey, it's been a while08:57
jsgotangcomdke, we're focused on ubuntu server though08:57
mdkeare you still involved?08:57
Burgundaviaok, as long as we are not trumpeting all over the place08:57
jsgotangcomdke, we're not really vocal about it though08:57
jsgotangcobut we already have a good manuscript going08:57
mdkecool08:57
jsgotangcoand already on 1st review08:57
LaserJockbut once we started the lulu thing then maybe it would tend to go more towards the doc team publishing the *big* book08:58
jsgotangcowe're not really on a mad rush to get it published in time of june but it would be nice08:58
LaserJockif we could show the lulu books to a publisher for instance, I would think that would go a long ways08:58
jsgotangcoi dont really mind having lulu on board to those docs08:59
LaserJockit really would be nice to have the offical doc team involved to some degree with offical books (seems logical to me)08:59
mdkeMadpilot, I got an answer from one of the lead developers on the 3d graphics section, so I'll write that up too.08:59
mdkeLaserJock, I agree. approaching individuals (for writing and review) is not really the same thing08:59
jsgotangco(actually anyone can do it)08:59
mdkejsgotangco, exactly, I suggested it to my flatmate who is writing a book for fun :)09:00
jsgotangcoyeah09:00
jsgotangcoi actually bought a book there09:00
jsgotangcothe world's ugliest dog09:00
jsgotangcohahaha09:00
mdkeawww09:00
mdkei saw a picture of that guy09:00
LaserJockme too09:00
jsgotangcoi think linspire also prints in lulu09:01
jsgotangcoor is it xandros09:01
jsgotangcohmm09:01
mdkejsgotangco, there doesn't appear to be a tl localisation for firefox. is that right?09:01
jsgotangcomdke, we have one being done and for review09:01
jsgotangcoi actually passed your email to the local list09:02
BurgundaviaLaserJock: mdke, I agree with you. We will be involved in maintaining the book however09:02
mdkejsgotangco, no, i mean there is no mozilla-firefox-locale-tl package09:02
LaserJockBurgundavia: was that ever discussed with the doc team? (I don't know)09:02
mdkethe translation won't work without one09:02
jsgotangcomdke, no, we have a pretty bad gnome and mozilla community locally09:03
mdkeBurgundavia, LaserJock has a point, how do you know we'll be involved maintaining the book?09:03
mdkejsgotangco, ah, shame. maybe pitti can do one for you. I noticed he added a bn_IN locale yesterday09:03
jsgotangcomdke, can it be created or it'll break upstream?09:03
BurgundaviaLaserJock: it is under our licenses, with the copyright being held by Canonical09:03
mdkejsgotangco, I don't know how it works09:03
jsgotangcoahh k i'll ask pitti then09:03
Burgundaviathe idea is that original authors would have first refusal if their was money to update the book09:04
mdkegood plan09:04
=== jsgotangco looks for the langpacks pimp
Burgundaviaif needed09:04
LaserJockI see09:04
mdkejsgotangco, https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/mozilla-firefox-locale-all/+bug/3570409:05
Burgundaviadoes everybody think I should put an item in teh FAQ on the website about the Python stuff installed by default?09:05
LaserJockwell, my main concern is that this book writing business seems to give the impression that Canonical doesn't really care or plan to include the doc team.09:06
LaserJockI don't really know if that is true09:06
jsgotangcomdke, ekkk a separate xpi job that's a bit hairy and dont think i have time to do that09:07
mdkejsgotangco, yeah.09:07
BurgundaviaI get the impression that canonical was approached by prentice hall09:07
mdkeBurgundavia, absolutely yes09:07
mdke(re: python)09:07
mdkejsgotangco, maybe someone else does?09:07
LaserJockso then it is basically Prentice Hall's baby (I'm totaly ignorant of the publishing business)09:07
LaserJockand they decided who would write the doc, etc. ?09:08
mdke-> afk09:08
jsgotangcomdke, like i said we have a pretty crap mozilla community here i'll see what i can do09:08
BurgundaviaLaserJock: prentice hall is exciting about he educational opportunties are ubuntu09:08
Burgundaviadebra has worked with Mako before, and I believe Jono as wel09:08
Burgundaviadebra is my editor at ph09:09
jsgotangcowho got an email from debra anyway? (raise hand)09:09
=== jsgotangco raises hand
jsgotangcoummm09:10
robheh.09:10
jsgotangcotee heee09:10
robstill away09:10
=== jsgotangco declined it anyway have too much work
Burgundaviajjesse, krystic also got them09:11
jsgotangcobut jjesse is in a writing job09:11
LaserJockok, so maybe I was just too far out of the loop on this (understandably)09:11
BurgundaviaI told debra about the manning book, so she may not have emailed them09:11
Burgundaviaseveas and whiprush have been doing some editing/proofing09:11
jsgotangcono worries the manning book is entirely server focused09:11
Burgundaviait was part of a freeranging talk about other ubuntu books09:12
LaserJockwell, I'm excited about the book. I haven't seen any content (or table of contents) but I know the authors so I'm pretty confident it will rock :-)09:14
LaserJockthe Official book that is09:14
BurgundaviaI wish I could write as well as Jono and Mako09:14
=== LaserJock wishes he could write faster
jsgotangcoare desktop books easier to write?09:15
jsgotangcoi wonder09:15
mdkeBurgundavia, you're as good a writer as Jono09:15
mdkeactually, I prefer your writing09:16
mdkeat least judging by what I've read on the book09:16
mdkenone of us could ever touch mako though ;)09:16
jsgotangcoi thought they should read consistently09:16
Burgundaviayes09:16
mdkejsgotangco, yeah, that's the main difficulty with the book, in my opinion09:16
jsgotangcoyeah09:16
mdkeor with any book, that isn't written by one person09:17
jsgotangcoon our side, we have jeffsch making things consistent09:17
Burgundaviaactually, I haven't even seen a complete copy myself, so it is hard09:17
jsgotangcobut he's been busy lately 09:17
Burgundaviajono has been the primary author, really09:17
jsgotangcohow do you collaborate? svn?09:17
Burgundaviaemail09:18
jsgotangcoerrr you email the stuff???09:18
Burgundaviayep09:18
jsgotangcothat's pretty messy imo09:18
Burgundaviayep09:18
Burgundaviawhat are you guying writing in?09:18
jsgotangcoBurgundavia, what we have been doing is very much the same with docteam09:18
jsgotangcoexcept we do it in ODT09:18
jsgotangcobut the toolchain is the same09:19
Burgundaviaah, we do it odt and doc09:19
jsgotangcosvn+mailman+trac09:19
Burgundaviaprentice hall is setup to deal with doc09:19
jsgotangcothe *.doc is a necessary evil because of the printers09:19
LaserJockwhat, no LaTeX?09:19
jsgotangcoLaserJock, yeah09:19
Burgundavianope09:19
Burgundaviaonly geek publishers like OReilly go for latex09:19
jsgotangcoLaserJock, its a hard reality of the printing industry09:19
LaserJockgosh, I have to use latex for all my publications09:20
jsgotangcoLaserJock, eventually, those go into Frame Maker09:20
Burgundaviaany, I need to sleep09:20
Burgundavianight all09:20
LaserJocklucky guy, he doesn't have a doc to finish ;p09:21
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jsgotangcolol he has the editor's wrath to take care of though09:21
LaserJockyeah, I just have mdke to worry about ;-)09:22
jsgotangcoyeah mdke's hair is to thick we need to make a wee bit thinner after dapper09:23
jsgotangcoif we manage to have mdke have a receeding hairline by dapper+1 we are successful09:23
LaserJockI know mine is, no joke09:24
LaserJockI wonder if it is Ubuntu09:24
LaserJockor grad school09:24
jsgotangcoLaserJock, check this out09:25
jsgotangcohttp://oss.mri.co.jp/i2oss/index.html09:25
poningruLaserJock: what doc do you have to finish?09:25
jsgotangco335 slides09:25
LaserJockthe Ubuntu Packaging Guide09:25
poningruooh 09:25
mdkejsgotangco, haha. it's started receding already09:25
poningruthat would be most helpful09:25
poningruyou are talking about the motu packaging guides right?09:26
LaserJockwell, it isn't specific to MOTU but yeah09:26
LaserJockit is on doc.ubuntu.com09:26
LaserJockif you want to have a look09:26
poningruright09:26
robok, back for a minute now09:31
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robmdke: I beleave its unprofessional to be saying the Desktop Guide is 'full of holes', not up to scratch for publishing etc etc when one is being paid to effectively write a rival book09:32
robbah..09:32
robok, what was I saying..09:34
robyes, besides as a few people have pointed out it will only be available through lulu09:34
robI feel its somewhat an insult to the Documentation Team that the whole team wasn't involved at least in some small way in the creation of an official book09:36
poningruwhats the license going to be on that book?09:37
robie This is the Official Ubuntu Book.. which didn't have any real community input.09:37
Madpilotponingru, I understand that after "the book" is released, it'll be dual CC:BY:SA & GFDL, like the existing docteam stuff09:38
robregardless of the fact it is being released with an open license the Ubuntu Documentation Team should have had input from the start09:38
poningrusweet09:38
robwhere are the royalties going, btw?09:38
poningrurob: thats true, but hey as long as it does good09:38
poningru...09:39
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robok, gotta go, back soon09:39
Madpilotrob, not sure there are going to be royalties - the authors won't be getting any, from what Corey's told me09:39
jsgotangcothere are no royalties09:39
LaserJockrob: I believe many if not all of the writer have waved royalties  but I"m not sure09:39
jsgotangcothe authors are paid up front09:39
robsuper.. 09:40
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LaserJockjeeze, I've got the memory leak from hell :(09:58
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mdkeMadpilot, I'm gonna try and do DVDs today too10:09
Madpilotmdke, excellent10:10
mdkethey will work in gstreamer with the -ugly plugin, but without menu and subtitle support10:10
mdkebut gxine works, according to corey, so we'll use that as the primary player, I'd think10:11
jsgotangcowow didnt know -ugly had dvd codecs10:11
jsgotangcoi always thought it was mostly audio10:11
mdkeyes, it used to be gstreamer0.8-dvd10:12
MadpilotCorey & Daniel both mentioned that gxine had some sort of colour-shifting error, though10:12
mdkeMadpilot, he reported yesterday that it worked. Dunno what that colour problem was10:12
mdkeok10:13
=== mdke settles down into 3d graphics
jsgotangcowhat with it?10:15
jsgotangcothe open source drivers rarely work10:15
jsgotangcogood luck getting quake 3 running on nv or ati10:15
Madpilotreally? I've got an ATI 9600XT 256Mb, and fglrx has always worked flawlessly10:16
Madpilotunless they've gotten worse for Dapper, which sounds unlikely10:16
mdkethey should be better10:17
mdkeI'm told lots of the commands in the guide aren't needed10:17
Madpilotmdke, speaking of which, want to yank the Quake 3 section of the Gaming chapter? it's a bit of an oddity, and probably doesn't have enough info to actually get Quake running on Ubuntu...10:18
jsgotangcoMadpilot, that's a binary driver right?10:20
jsgotangcoif you're using a binary driver it shouldnt be an issue10:20
Madpilotjsgotangco, fglrx? yeah, it's the non-free one, which AFAIK we recommend in the UDG10:20
jsgotangcoMadpilot, that should work10:20
Madpilotjsgotangco, ah, you were talking about the opensource drivers - my bad, didn't actually read what you wrote :P10:21
jsgotangcoMadpilot, hehe xorg gets a ton of bugs about it10:21
jsgotangcoMadpilot, there's also with Q3 being open source, but people mistake it so10:21
jsgotangcothe engine is open, but the visuals/artwork aren't10:21
jsgotangcothat's why there's no apt-get quake3 tee hheee10:22
Madpilotyeah, I've seen a number of people in #ubuntu ask why "the free Quake isn't working" :P10:22
mdkeMadpilot, whatever you think. I have no idea about quake10:22
Madpilotmdke, nuke it10:22
jsgotangcoyeah nuke it10:22
jsgotangcoi insisted on nuking it on kdg10:22
mdkeok, shall I do it?10:23
mdkewell, I have10:23
Madpilotgood10:24
mdkedo _any_ nvidia cards have 3d by default in ubuntu?10:28
mdkei think the answer is no10:28
jsgotangconone10:28
jsgotangcoit'll install `nv`10:28
jsgotangcobut `nvidia-glx` is supported10:29
Madpilotlikewise ATI cards - the default is mesa for them, I think10:29
mdkelots of ati cards work, the older ones10:30
mdkethanks10:30
Madpilotthey work w/ mesa, just not w/ 3d accel10:30
Madpilotanyway, need sleep. later, all10:30
mdkei have an ati chip which has 3d out of the box with radeon10:31
mdkeoops10:31
robback, finally10:51
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=== bhuvan watched the cricket match. india won the series
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WaterSevenUbhhm, where is the index.html for the firefox start page that people are supposed to translate?01:48
mdkeWaterSevenUb, attached to my email01:53
mdkebhuvan, grrr01:54
bhuvanmdke, :)01:54
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WaterSevenUbmdke, sorry for the stupidity but... nothing appears attached in my email client. Do you have it somewhere?01:57
mdkeWaterSevenUb, https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/trunk/ubuntu/browser-startpage/index.html02:00
mdkewhat email client is that?02:00
WaterSevenUbmdke, should we follow strictly that? For example, here http://www.ubuntu-pt.org/beta/web/ we have much more localized material on short ubuntu introduction.02:01
WaterSevenUbwebclient02:02
mdkeplease follow the text strictly, you can localise links where appropriate (not the help.ubuntu.com link)02:02
mdkesmall changes to the text might be appropriate for the sake of localisation02:03
WaterSevenUbthank you for your help. Yeah, I agree with you.02:03
mdkenp02:05
mdkebhuvan, is the server guide ready for freezing?02:15
bhuvanmdke: yes; very few sections are yet to be reviewed. i'm certain it's ready02:16
bhuvanmdke: whats your opinion ?02:17
mdkebhuvan, I'm happy with your opinion :) I'll ask trappist what he thinks too, as he has read all of it, I think02:18
bhuvanmdke, ok02:18
mdkegreat, well done02:18
mdkebhuvan, btw, the file system-conf.xml isn't used is it? Can I delete it?02:25
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mdkebhuvan_, :02:31
mdke [13:18:50]  < mdke> great, well done02:31
mdke [13:25:32]  < mdke> bhuvan, btw, the file system-conf.xml isn't used is it? Can I delete it?02:31
bhuvan_mdke: 17:59 < bhuvan> mdke: yeah it can be removed02:32
mdkethanks02:32
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robotgeekmorning (evening) authors03:33
mdkehiya03:35
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robotgeekmdke: will it be okay to correct minor errors with say, punctuation and  stuff later on?03:36
mdkecorrect as many as you can now. if there are glaring ones later, we can correct them, but it may be best to leave them, depending on seriousness, and how far the translators have got03:37
robotgeekmdke: well, frank23 will be sending me another patch, and jjesse too03:38
mdkegenerally speaking, if typos are caught quite soon, it shouldnt be a big problem to correct them03:38
mdkei'm happy to wait for their patches before starting the translators03:38
robotgeekmdke: probably no typos (i went over it with aspell twice)03:38
mdkecool, are the patches coming today? or later?03:39
robotgeekit's the punctutation that will kill, i can't really see the mistakes!03:39
robotgeekmdke: mostly today, i am guessing03:39
mdkecool, no prob.03:40
robotgeekmdke: how do you like it so far?03:40
mdkei'm afraid I haven't read it03:42
robotgeekmdke: hmm, okay :)03:43
robotgeekmdke: http://yummy.printfu.org/03:43
mdkecool03:46
mdkeis xchat-gnome configured to have an entry in the server list for Ubuntu which automatically joins #ubuntu? sorry to ask, haven't got a dapper system on me04:01
robotgeekmdke: not sure, don't use gnome anymore. 04:02
robotgeekmdke: i'll have some coffee and be back04:02
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robotgeekmdke: it won't connect to freenode for some reason04:14
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mdkerobotgeek, does it try?04:18
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=== mdke removes handhelds section from UDG, no idea if this works or not
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LaserJockmorning doc people05:31
trappist I'm removing the last 3 sections of the installguide, which are blank.  I might be able to fill them in, but I won't have time to do it properly before the freeze.  any objections, or any volunteers to fill in instructions for standalone, fileserver and service server?05:32
trappistmorning LaserJock 05:32
mdketrappist, leave the installguide alone05:44
mdkeit's completely unmaintained, and there is an official one written by the main developer05:44
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trappistdangit.  can we get rid of unmaintained docs so I don't waste time on them?05:45
mdketrappist, yes we can. But best to check the Projects wiki page05:46
mdketrappist, how is the server guide? ready to go, do you think?05:46
trappistalso I just found 3 empty sections in the serverguide, for newsgroups, nntp and nntp-config.  I think it's safe to delete those.05:46
mdkegood idea05:46
robotgeekmdke: sorry, was away. 05:47
trappistI want to give it a good once-over first.  I just found that stuff with a grep.05:47
mdkerobotgeek, np, I sorted it. DG is now 100% complete05:47
mdketrappist, ok, if you can do it today :)05:47
robotgeekmdke: awesome. 05:47
trappistmdke: can do05:47
mdketrappist, rock05:47
robotgeekmdke: jjesse will send in patch for handhelds in kdg :)05:47
mdkerobotgeek, i deleted a few crappy sections05:48
mdkeand the flash instructions needed an extra push05:48
robotgeekmdke: hmm, flash. lemme svn up05:48
mdkeactually, i deleted a lot of crappy sections05:48
mdkeworkarounds in breezy which are now fixed in dapper05:49
mdkee.g. DMA05:49
robotgeekno need to enable DMA?05:49
mdkeno, that's done by default now05:49
mdke(if it works)05:50
robotgeekmdke: hmm, i see a sudo update-flashplugin, i think that's might be needed even in kdg05:50
mdkerobotgeek, its for when you don't install the package from a terminal and don't get the ncurses debconf screen05:51
mdketrappist, i'd say delete rather than comment out for the serverguide05:51
mdkemight muss up translations05:51
trappistok, I agree now that I think about it.  who runs an nntp server anymore anyway? :)05:51
robotgeekmdke: hmm, definetly needed then :)05:52
LaserJockyikes, it is cold this morning. My fingers don't want to type :(05:53
mdkewhat else did i nuke?05:53
trappistmdke: I'd like a review of the cups section by somebody who knows cups.  the cupsys package has changed pretty drastically since the printing section was written, and I'm not 100% sure I got all my changes right.05:54
mdkerobotgeek, lots of silly sections in the firefox thing about improving the speed05:54
mdkerobotgeek, some silly things in partitions which aren't needed too, iirc05:54
mdketrappist, ok, dunno who tho. I doubt pitti has time05:54
robotgeekmdke: don't have firefox in kdg05:54
trappistmdke: what do you think about an invite on sounder to get reviews on the whole thing?  I think the binary video driver thing went over very well05:55
robotgeekmdke: i'll make the change to flash plugin after frank23 sends his patch05:55
trappistmdke: lots of people sure would like to help, and this would be a pretty easy way, and I think it could help us catch a lot of oopses.05:55
mdketrappist, yeah, but it's very late05:55
trappistmight have to sort through some junk, but I'd appreciate the eyeballs.05:55
mdkerobotgeek, dunno if that flash thing works in konq, i tried in ff05:56
trappistmdke: yeah, that's why I think it's a good idea - it's too late for us few to do it, but we'd get a lot more eyeballs and potentially a broader range of expertise if we solicited help.05:56
robotgeekmdke: i verified yesterday with seth and kkhatman05:57
trappistmdke: $10 says we'll be glad we did it - people will catch things we won't believe we didn't catch ourselves05:57
mdketrappist, go ahead. CC: the -server list. I'd suggest keeping it to the sections you're not sure about though06:00
trappistgood call06:01
trappistdidn't know there was a -server list.06:01
trappisthow up to date is the serverguide on doc.ubuntu.com?06:02
mdkeI'll update it now06:04
mdkeonly a few hours tho06:04
robotgeekmdke: hold for my commit :)06:07
mdkei didn't do kubuntu06:09
robotgeekanyways, it will update on its own 06:10
robotgeekalrite, food beckons. bbl06:12
mdkerobotgeek, done. Please make sure you check docs for validation before committing though (aboutkubuntu)06:18
mdkejjesse, ^06:18
mdketrappist, how about replacing things like: "To install apache2 you refer to <xref linkend="http-installation" /> section" with "To install apache2, refer to <xref linkend="http-installation" />"06:22
trappistmdke: I'm actually on that now, along with removing leading the's from xrefs06:23
Burgworkhmm, screenshot on boingboing is in that familiar shade of brown06:25
mdketrappist, cool. sometimes yelp/html adds the word "section" automatically, so it's generally good to leave it out of the text06:25
trappistditto for "the"06:25
mdkeyep06:25
mdkealso, if you have time, i think filenames and directives could do with some styling06:26
mdke<filename> and <emphasis> respectively, maybe06:26
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trappistyeah I've been poking at that stuff when I run across it - some of my serverguide additions could probably use it, since I didn't really get the hang of it until after I wrote em.06:28
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trappistdang it.  there's a lot of invalid links like that one, most pointing to other chapters, and changing those to xref doesn't help.  anybody happen to know how to xref to another chapter?06:42
mdke<xref linkend="idofchapter"/>06:44
mdkewhere <chapter id="idofchapter">06:44
mdkeyou can do it with specific sections, or anything where you put an id06:44
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LaserJockmdke: is it ok if I add ~ 300K of files to the repo for the packaging guide?06:45
LaserJockmdke: I have an example and the links just aren't working so I need to ship the files :(06:45
mdkehmm06:45
LaserJockor is there some place I can store them?06:46
mdkewebsite?06:46
LaserJockmaybe on doc.ubuntu.com?06:46
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jsgotangcoask for a freeze exception to mdke!!!!06:47
=== jsgotangco hides
LaserJockhmm, I could put them on the MOTU server06:47
trappistmdke: I see.  the one I'm banging my head on is a <sect3 id="my xref">06:47
LaserJocktrappist: does it really have a space? maybe that would be a problem.06:48
trappistnope06:48
LaserJockhmm06:48
trappistit creates a link to the current chapter with an anchor that doesn't exist in that chapter06:48
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LaserJockweird, sure there aren't two sections with the same id?06:49
trappistpositive06:49
mdketrappist, even in the html?06:49
trappistthe link in question is creating-a-self-signed-certificate in the serverguide06:49
trappistmdke: I'm using the html to validate the links06:50
trappistso that's where I'm seeing the problem06:50
mdkeLaserJock, I think that might be a bit big for the package, given that its on the CD. not sure. 06:50
mdketrappist, weird. try with a sect206:51
trappisthrm, it's not chapter I'm looking for... this is all the same chapter, but maybe a different sect1?06:51
trappistmdke: how would I specify that in the xref?06:51
mdkei'm not clear on what the problem is06:51
mdkeall you specify in the xref is the id tag06:51
mdkewherever the id tag is, it should find it06:51
mdkeunless you're using yelp 2.12, which has a bug06:52
mdkeif the doc validates, there shouldn't be a problem06:52
trappistthe link labeled Creating a Self Signed Certificate in the email section of the serverguide does nothing in the html, because the target is in the apache2 section, and the href is to http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/serverguide/C/email-services.html#creating-a-self-signed-certificate06:52
LaserJockmdke: np, I put them on http://tiber.tauware.de/~laserjock/ . That should be stable.06:53
trappistbleh.  false alarm.  I was using the friggin doc.ubuntu.com to test my changes.06:53
trappistsorry.06:53
LaserJocklol06:53
mdkenp. LaserJock, our server should be available if you want it. 06:54
LaserJockmdke: hmm, that would probably be better (naming wise). Where would I put them?06:54
mdkeput them in your home, and I'll move em over somewhere. 06:57
LaserJockthey are there06:57
LaserJockall the xcdroast files06:57
robotgeekmdke: hmm, sorry. forgot06:57
LaserJockmdke: 6 total06:58
mdkeok06:58
mdkeLaserJock, suggestions for a good url?07:00
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robotgeekhey jjesse 07:01
LaserJockmdke: umm, not sure. can there be a packaging guide directory (in case I need more in the future)?07:01
mdkeok07:01
LaserJockthe thing is that both Debian and Ubuntu remove outdated file fairly rapidly, so links will get stale quickly for package files07:02
mdkeok, http://doc.ubuntu.com/files/packagingguide/07:02
LaserJockmdke: perfect. thanks so much07:03
mdkenp, anytime07:03
LaserJockheh, better not say that :-)07:04
mdke:)07:04
mdkeafk07:04
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Burgworkmdke, did anybody fix the dvd section?07:18
jsgotangcoBurgwork: nows your chance to finally contribute something!07:21
jsgotangco:D07:21
=== jsgotangco hides
robotgeekmdke: going to delete the unused sample/<files>07:23
Burgworkjsgotangco, nah, I don't write docs07:24
jsgotangcoright, you get paid to write books *snicker*07:24
BurgworkI would fix it, but I forgot last night and I haven't set up port forwarding on my router, so I can't get into my home machine07:24
jsgotangcoahhh07:24
jsgotangcook malone just beat me07:25
=== jsgotangco is tired and sleepy
robotgeekBurgwork: done07:25
Burgworkrobotgeek, the dvd stuff?07:26
robotgeekBurgwork: yeah, only substitles07:26
jsgotangcoif a robot makes work fast, a robotgeek makes it lightning speed07:26
Burgworkah, I wondered if we added gxine to watch the actual dvds07:26
robotgeeklol07:26
robotgeekit just works on kubuntu :)07:27
Burgworkyou guys are shipping a player with the xine backend07:27
jsgotangcorobotgeek: did you ever get to incorporate some stuff from the old kubuntu quickgude to the kdg?07:28
Burgworkwe are shipping with gstreamer, hence the issue07:28
robotgeekjsgotangco: no, i kinda gave up after the seeing the screenshot video07:28
jsgotangcolol07:29
robotgeekjsgotangco: i think i stole something for the printer section, but nothing more07:29
jsgotangcono worries07:29
robotgeekjsgotangco: that video was very excrutiating to watch :P07:29
trappistour fdl looks to be out of date07:41
trappiston gnu.org section 4 is modifications and on ours section for is copying in quantity07:42
trappistbut ours refers to section 4 as the modifications section, so I think maybe we tried to update just certain parts of it?07:43
trappiste.g. we have "You may copy and distribute a Modified Version of the Document under the conditions of sections 2 and 3 above..." where section 2 is applicability and definitions, which I don't think is right07:49
trappistit's not right - on gnu.org it also refers to sections 2 and 3, where 2 is verbatim copying.07:50
jsgotangcogood night07:51
trappistours has the same version number and date... maybe I should just snatch up http://www.gnu.org/licenses/fdl.xml, which is kindly provided for us07:51
trappistnight jsgotangco 07:51
trappistif I do that it validates once I add the dtd07:53
trappistgod it's so much better if I do that.07:53
trappistanyone?07:54
robotgeektrappist: :)07:54
trappistok ima commit it07:54
robotgeektrappist: clueless, really07:54
robotgeekbbl07:56
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trappistthe gpl is similarly borked08:02
mdkeBurgwork, yeah, I did it08:02
mdkeBurgwork, the desktop guide all works now, i think08:02
mdkerobotgeek, good plan08:03
Burgworkmdke, cool, ok08:03
frank23robotgeek: I can prrofread more of the kdg. start with add-applications.xml maybe? What was that about the flash-plugin changes you wanted to do?08:08
frank23has the documentation been sent to rosetta yet?08:10
mdkeno08:10
frank23ok08:11
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LaserJockmdke: is the html being built daily still?08:19
mdketwice daily08:26
mdkei hope :)08:26
LaserJockok08:27
LaserJockwow, it was built since I left the house just a little bit ago08:27
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mdkemmmmmmm new yelp09:05
mdke<309:05
LaserJockyeah!09:05
trappistof course I'm not subscribed to the -server list, so by the time my email gets to anybody there won't be much point09:30
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mdketrappist, you could always subscribe, I suppose09:53
trappistyeah, and send again09:53
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jjessedoes the ubuntu release notes contain min specs for installing ubuntu?  don't remember if it does or not10:20
KyralI think the Shipit CD Covers do10:21
Kyraland I qoute10:21
KyralFor Desktop: 128 MB RAM and 1.8 GB DiskSpace10:21
KyralFor Server: 64 MB RAM and 350 MB DiskSpace10:22
jjesserecomended?10:22
Kyral"at least:10:23
robmdke, still aroun?10:23
Kyralis the specific wording10:23
roberr around even10:23
robthunderstorm is messing with my wireless keyboard..10:23
Kyrallol10:23
LaserJockthat's about the time I think about turning my compy off10:24
mdkerob, more or less. what's up?10:24
robso did you want to take the lulu idea to the CC/Canonical and see what they have to say?10:25
mdkerob, I will see if a few more people reply, and then I'll mail Jane or someone similar10:27
BurgworkJane S is the person to talk to10:27
robok, sounds good10:27
Kyrallulu?10:27
roblet me know if you need a hand with anything, I'm happy to help out10:28
LaserJockjeeze, pay attention Kyral ;p10:28
robhehe10:28
KyralLaserJock: I've been studying for a Chem exam for crying out loud10:28
robKyral, lulu will allow people to buy printed copies of the guides10:29
Kyralah10:29
robcheaply too10:29
LaserJockKyral: then you are excused ;-) see https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-doc/2006-April/005826.html10:29
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mdke_yes, that's the Jane I meant10:29
KyralYah Chemistry boi :P10:29
mdke_damn network10:29
=== mdke_ blinks
KyralThat was a reference to LJ :P10:30
=== LaserJock does the "I love Chemistry" dance
LaserJockanybody want to join me?10:31
=== rob runs
LaserJockheh10:32
KyralI'll reduce your oxidation pal!10:32
LaserJocklol10:32
=== mdke disappears for the evening
=== rob disappears for work :(
mdke12 hours before I'll get to any translation generating, so make hay10:32
robI hate windows so much.. we so broke the servers trying to upgrade them to 2003 yesterday10:33
LaserJockneutron walks into a bar, sits down and asks for a drink. Finishing, the neutron asks "How much?"10:33
LaserJockThe bartender says, "For you, no charge."10:33
mdkedon't get it10:33
mdkenow shoo back to the PG10:33
=== Burgwork smacks LaserJock for the bad jokes :)
mdkenight all10:33
=== LaserJock sulks back to vim
LaserJockmdke: can you hold off on sending the PG until I email you? I'm not sure with timezones and all when I'll have it done10:34
LaserJockprobably within 12 hrs but I'm not sure10:35
mdkeLaserJock, yes10:35
LaserJockk10:35
LaserJockok, one last one, and then I'll leave ;-)10:36
LaserJockQ: Why does hamburger have lower energy than steak?10:36
LaserJockA: Because it's in the ground state.10:36
=== LaserJock runs
jjessewow10:37
LaserJockand that is why chemists aren't comedians10:38
LaserJockthe new yelp looks wonderful10:40
trappistlittle johnny was a chemist, little johnny is no more.  for what he thought was H2O was H2SO4.10:42
LaserJockohhh, that's good10:42
LaserJockalthough he wasn't a very good chemist was he ;-)10:43
trappist:)10:43
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jjessewhat is h2so4?10:44
trappistsulfuric acid10:44
LaserJocksulfuric acid10:44
jjesseoh10:44
robotgeekjjesse: commited10:45
LaserJocki.e. not good for your health ;-)10:45
jjesserobotgeek: finally :)10:45
robotgeekjjesse: only reason why i said in the root directory is that it is easy for the person committing the patch to do so very easily10:45
jjesserobotgeek: oh, never had issues before, that's intresteing10:47
robotgeekjjesse: meaning, i don't have to spend too much time wondering what to patch :)10:47
jjesserobotgeek: totally understand10:48
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