[03:25] <Meyer> @schedule Brazil/East
[03:25] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Brazil/East: 06 Apr 05:00: Dapper Development Status | 11 Apr 17:00: Technical Board | 12 Apr 09:00: Edubuntu | 12 Apr 11:00: Xubuntu | 13 Apr 11:00: Dapper Development Status | 18 Apr 18:00: Community Council
[09:53] <pitti> hey all
[09:54] <doko> moin
[09:56] <Keybuk> Kinnison: I'm trying tea so stiff the spoon stands up in it
[09:56] <Kinnison> Keybuk: I find that forms a film on the top which I dislike
[09:56] <ogra> (with a fresh coffe)
[09:56] <mdz> everyone here?
[09:56] <ogra> +e
[09:57] <fabbione> yeah
[09:57] <ogra> heno, hey congrats :)
[09:57] <ogra> and welcome in the team :)
[09:57] <heno> hey distro team!
[09:57] <dholbach> yeah... congratulations heno :)
[09:57] <mdz> yes,  before we start, everyone welcome heno aboard
[09:57] <JaneW> ping:  iwj, Kamion, Kinnison , Riddell, seb128, sivan
[09:57] <JaneW> g
[09:57] <mdz> Kinnison is here
[09:57] <JaneW> heno \0/
[09:57] <heno> thanks all :)
[09:57] <Keybuk> bah
[09:57] <JaneW> hi Kinnison 
[09:57] <ogra> everyone is gone again ...
[09:57] <Kinnison> hi jane
[09:57] <Riddell> hi JaneW 
[09:58] <JaneW> hi Riddell 
[09:58] <mdz> mvo: here?
[09:58] <Kamion> here
[09:58] <mvo> mdz: hello
[09:58] <JaneW> Kinnison: you have no idea how much I need that
[09:58] <mdz> Mithrandir,infinity,BenC?
[09:59] <Kinnison> JaneW: you seem to have been suffering for a few days
[09:59] <dholbach> mdz: infinity has a 'pre-meeting smoke'.
[09:59] <JaneW> ping:   sivang
[09:59] <infinity> mdz: PING
[09:59] <BenC> mdz: pong
[09:59] <JaneW> Kinnison: nod, it SUCKS
[09:59] <infinity> Err.
[09:59] <infinity> Caps lock, yay.
[10:00] <mdz> Mithrandir: ping
[10:00] <JaneW> seems everyone is here besides sivang
[10:00] <JaneW> Mithrandir is on vac
[10:00] <JaneW> and gave apologies and an update
[10:00] <pitti> Riddell?
[10:00] <JaneW> Riddell is here
[10:00] <Riddell> hi pi
[10:00] <pitti> oops, yes
[10:00] <Riddell> pitti: 
[10:01] <mdz> JaneW: StaffCalendar disagrees
[10:01] <JaneW> mdz: erk, he said he applied for last week, but due to original Dapper release date you asked him to take this week....
[10:02] <mdz> JaneW: yes, that sounds likely, but nonetheless StaffCalendar mentions nothing of the sort
[10:02] <mdz> anyway, let's get started
[10:02] <mdz> BenC: care to start us off?
[10:02] <JaneW> mdz: I'll prod him about it
[10:02] <BenC> - Kernel status: Stabalizing on all platforms. Lots of major bugs fixed in the last uload (20.30).
[10:02] <BenC> - Bug status: Way behind. Recent flight release along with the few days vacation left me behind. Catching back up over this weekend.
[10:03] <mdz> yes, in my sweep I've come across quite a few kernel bugs which haven't been looked at yet
[10:03] <mdz> maybe a kernel-oriented bug day would help?
[10:03] <fabbione> +1
[10:03] <BenC> yeah, probably
[10:03] <Keybuk> BenC: any hope of fixing the PHP subsystem bug?
[10:03] <Keybuk> because that's quite a critical one
[10:03] <dholbach> bug day next week friday
[10:03] <fabbione> PHP???
[10:03] <BenC> Keybuk: done in 20.30
[10:03] <Keybuk> at least, for those of us who don't have Mactels
[10:03] <BenC> PNP
[10:04] <mdz> modprobe php
[10:04] <Keybuk> 20.30 ?
[10:04] <fabbione> [kphp/0] 
[10:04] <BenC> last kernel upload
[10:04] <Keybuk> ah
[10:04] <mdz> dholbach: can you work with the kernel team to assemble some basic docs for kernel bug triage?
[10:04] <infinity> Keybuk: The current kernel seems to make PNP happy.
[10:04] <dholbach> mdz: i will do that
[10:04] <mdz> thanks
[10:05] <mdz> dholbach: next?
[10:05] <dholbach> icon-mission: tangerine hit Universe, hope to get Dave's icons for Human soon
[10:05] <dholbach> this week (done): bug triage, bug fixing, icon-cache stuff
[10:05] <dholbach> this week (todo): more bug triage, preparing Universe for Release
[10:05] <dholbach> next week: more bug triage, bug day, GNOME 2.14.1
[10:06] <mdz> I saw some 2.14.1 already, were they early?
[10:06] <seb128__> no, that's time
[10:06] <dholbach> no... just some urgent bug fixes in between 14.0 and 14.1
[10:06] <seb128__> 1 month since 2.14.0
[10:06] <mdz> ok
[10:06] <mdz> dholbach: how are you coping with the bug volume?
[10:07] <dholbach> ok-ish... i would have to work twice the time to get "it done"
[10:07] <mdz> what is the most time-consuming part?
[10:07] <dholbach> it's just the volume
[10:07] <JaneW> dholbach: you can tutor me on bug triage, now that most goals are implemented there's less status update chasing etc
[10:07] <mdz> too many incoming bugs to look at?
[10:08] <infinity> JaneW: That would be lovely.
[10:08] <dholbach> you need to have overview over all the bugs... so i coudn't pick a part and say that's the problem, yes, it's quite a lot these days
[10:08] <seb128__> mdz: yeah, really lot of desktop bugs for the number of people working on them
[10:08] <dholbach> JaneW: yeah, i can do that :-)
[10:08] <iwj> Many of the bug reports seem of very low quality, too.  You can spend a lot of time in back-and-forth with the submitter.
[10:08] <mdz> seb128__,dholbach: if you know someone good in the community, we're going to be hiring
[10:09] <seb128__> QA guy or desktop guy?
[10:09] <mdz> seb128__: yes
[10:09] <mdz> ;-)
[10:09] <dholbach> mdz: thanks a lot... i'll keep an eye on our community people
[10:09] <seb128__> :)
[10:09] <seb128__> noted
[10:09] <mdz> iwj: in my sweep, the overall bug quality has not been so bad really
[10:09] <iwj> Maybe I'm just expecting too much.
[10:09] <mdz> usually only one round of additional info
[10:10] <infinity> (with notable exceptions)
[10:10] <seb128__> most of the desktop bug are fine, maybe not on first try but people are responsive usually and willing to provide informations required
[10:10] <mdz> I'm seeing relatively few support requests submitted as bug reports
[10:10] <Keybuk> my main problem with bug reports, at least in the areas I touch, is the user mis-identifying the problem and having to stop them doing their quick fix so you can figure out what the real problem is
[10:10] <Keybuk> is anybody going through the support requests?  jbailey I guess?
[10:10] <Kamion> mine is related, it's users misidentifying problems as dupes
[10:10] <mdz> Keybuk: dunno
[10:10] <Seveas> mdz, myself, robitaille, carthik, kenny duffus and a few others are triaging a lot - About 10% of the bug reports is low quality afaict but 50% needs work
[10:10] <iwj> The worst ones are the `firefox crashes' ones which are pretty much support requests and pretty much always turn out to be due to Flash (spit).
[10:11] <mdz> Seveas: yes, thanks for the help
[10:11] <Seveas> Keybuk, I am subscribed to all new support requests now, so are a few other community members 
[10:11] <mdz> post-Dapper we'll do some work on bug reporting tools
[10:11] <Keybuk> Kamion: yeah, I have that a lot too; users with more time jumping onto a bug report with theirs and making it almost impossible to get information out of the original submitter without misleading information about something that's really a different bug
[10:11] <dholbach> "firefox crashes" = support request?
[10:11] <mdz> so that we can get more information up front, automatically collected
[10:11] <mdz> e.g., reportbug
[10:11] <mdz> which would help with that class of bugs
[10:11] <seb128> and automatic debug bt!
[10:11] <seb128> :)
[10:12] <mdz> mmmm
[10:12] <mdz> ok, moving on
[10:12] <mdz> thanks dholbach
[10:12] <dholbach> de rien
[10:12] <Kamion> dholbach: if it's related to some insane thing they installed into their firefox but forgot to mention, it can be, yes
[10:12] <mdz> doko: next?
[10:12] <doko> - openoffice.org: found and fixed the rosetta import failure (nearly all strings marked as translated), uploads pending db update, fixed packages for ia64, working on breezy backport packages, other fixes, started occassional trunk builds.
[10:12] <doko> - long font discussions: switch of default fonts to metric compatible fonts objected by our gnome attorney, now proposed to introduce the Times/Helvetica aliases again (will change back to "ugly" fonts in firefox, Diziet is currently investigating). looks we cannot have both.
[10:12] <doko> - printing bugs: coordinated with pitti, prepared new libusb, foomatic-db, hplip, all new upstream, still testing.
[10:12] <iwj> dholbach: Yes.  I've got a form for telling people that now.  `Sorry, that should be a support request and anyway it'll be the fault of Flash'.  Only a bit longer.
[10:12] <doko> - other: look at various python testsuite failures, together with `anthony, libffi update, prepared python2.5a1 packages for gustavo.
[10:12] <mdz> pitti: speaking of which, what is the latest on rosetta import/export for dapper?
[10:13] <mdz> doko: db update?
[10:13] <pitti> mdz: details in my report, but it's working in principle now
[10:13] <doko> ohh, and found out about another 1 year old package (no debian updates): graphviz
[10:13] <doko> mdz: yes message strings
[10:13] <mdz> ok, will discuss then
[10:13] <pitti> mdz: rosetta only has about 30% of total translations, but these are good now
[10:13] <iwj> fonts: We can have both if we can teach our fontconfig setup to distinguish between `I need a font with the same metrics as the one I asked for' and `I don't really care about the metrics'.
[10:13] <mdz> doko: gnome attorney?
[10:13] <doko> mdz: seb128, who else ;)
[10:14] <seb128> and jdub :p
[10:14] <mdz> jdub said he liked the idea, no?
[10:14] <seb128> no
[10:14] <seb128> Nimbus as default Sans alias will just make lot of desktop ugly on update
[10:14] <doko> seb128: jdub agreed on the ML, but then disagreed on the channel
[10:14] <iwj> Yesterday I concluded I'd have to add an <if ...> construct or something because you can't make aliases conditional.  I'll look at it with fresh eyes today.
[10:14] <seb128> people will complain loud
[10:14] <mdz> "Agree. Thanks for the summary."
[10:14] <mdz> is what jdub said
[10:14] <pitti> Nimbus--
[10:14] <ogra> urgh
[10:14] <ogra> Nimbus oon the *desktop* ??
[10:15] <ogra> thats a print font ...
[10:15] <seb128> maybe he didn't mesure that any people who ever played with the font capplet will got GNOME using Nimbus with that change
[10:15] <seb128> since that's user setting and will not follow a schemas change
[10:15] <doko> fontconfig doesn't differentiate between screen and printer
[10:15] <mdz> hmm, ok, I need to look into the font issue more deeply and discuss on the list
[10:15] <iwj> What doko said.  Very annoying and needs fixing.
[10:15] <seb128> and we don't want GNOME UI using Nimbus, really
[10:15] <ogra> doko, yes, thats why we decided to keep very in breezy
[10:15] <ogra> *vera
[10:16] <iwj> I agreed with doko that I'd look into it and post a plan to -devel.
[10:16] <doko> mdz: seb128 said, that gnome only font changes will not take effect for existing users
[10:16] <mdz> doko: what do our printing upstreams use for bug tracking?
[10:16] <iwj> (Well, the printing/screen thing.)
[10:16] <mdz> probably most of these are upstream issues and we should build a relationship there
[10:16] <doko> mdz: sf resources, didn't look for cups
[10:17] <iwj> gs is a mess because of the approximately three versions.
[10:17] <mdz> from what I saw the last time I looked at it, we should standardize on gs-esp
[10:17] <doko> iwj: is there still a reason to keep these? in the past gs-gpl wasn't the newest
[10:17] <mdz> because we care about it primarily for printing
[10:18] <iwj> gs-esp is sometimes quite a bit older than gs-gsp in core RIP stuff.
[10:18] <iwj> For example in Breezy our gs-esp was nasty and crashy, really.
[10:18] <mdz> -gpl you mean?
[10:18] <iwj> No, -esp.
[10:18] <Kamion> "gs-gsp"
[10:18] <iwj> We had gs-esp 7.something and gs-gpl 8.something.
[10:19] <iwj> I'm tempted to suggest using gs-gpl as distiller and then feeding to gs-esp for the cases where the gs-gpl drivers aren't so good.
[10:19] <mdz> iwj: -gpl rather than -gsp I meant
[10:19] <mdz> unless there is yet another ;-)
[10:19] <Keybuk> if only we could fold it all into poppler :)
[10:19] <iwj> Yes, gpl, not gsp.
[10:19] <mdz> if only gs could sort itself out and be one upstream...
[10:19] <mdz> anyway, thanks doko
[10:19] <mdz> fabbione: next?
[10:20] <iwj> The one upstream have that stupid licensing model.
[10:20] <fabbione> * server-candy: Missing/buggy: apache2 for "central snakeoil SSL setup" and kernel -server as default from CD install. No other progresses.
[10:20] <fabbione> * ubuntu-cluster: There will be no ocfs2-tools release. Done a lot for clvm and multipath-tools (from fixing kernel bugs, down
[10:20] <fabbione> to rearrange parts of the cluster boot sequence). Missing one bug fix in multipath-tools (that i am aware of at least).
[10:20] <fabbione> * last week: mainly cluster work, some X bug fixing and a bit of sparc love.
[10:20] <fabbione> * next week: bug squashing (mainly X).
[10:20] <mdz> fabbione: what's this about apache2?
[10:20] <fabbione> mdz: pending on infinity's love, is to get ssl working out of the box
[10:20] <mdz> is -server as default a non-trivial change?
[10:20] <infinity> It's an upload I need to make to Debian, and his weekly meeting reminders serve to remind me for about 5 minutes before I forget again. :)
[10:21] <fabbione> mdz: -server us on Kamion's court.. and it's not exactly trivial
[10:21] <Kamion> mdz: not rocket science, but not trivial either
[10:21] <Kamion> it's a bit messy in base-installer
[10:21] <mdz> Kamion: can someone other than you do it?
[10:21] <infinity> fabbione: Can you remind me about apache2 sometime this week that isn't "in the middle of the meeting"? :)
[10:21] <fabbione> infinity: sure...
[10:21] <infinity> (Though I was going to wait for 2.0.56 to release upstream, but that seems to be taking its sweet time)
[10:21] <Kamion> mdz: maybe. I wrote all the surrounding code though :)
[10:22] <mdz> fabbione: X needs serious love
[10:22] <Kamion> it's bug 31474
[10:22] <fabbione> mdz: yes we already discussed this.
[10:22] <mdz> most of it looks upstreamish but there is a lot to forward
[10:22] <Keybuk> ... did anyone else just do a half-second wait for Ubugtu there?
[10:22] <mdz> who can give fabio a hand?
[10:23] <ogra> i'm already digging on some ati vs radeon bugs
[10:23] <mdz> heno: how are you with Malone?
[10:23] <infinity> mdz: I'm triaging some X bugs here and there, but my workload is reasonably high enough that I can't dive headlong into it without ignoring other areas.
[10:23] <Seveas> (Keybuk, bugsnarfer is disabled in here)
[10:23] <ogra> and i'd like to jump in on dexconf 
[10:23] <heno> mdz: I've been using it a bit
[10:23] <heno> OOo bugs mainly :)
[10:23] <infinity> ogra: If you can hack dexconf without (dear lord) making it any worse, more power to you.
[10:24] <mdz> heno: I think there's a lot of good that could be done just by reading through the bugs and talking with fabio
[10:24] <mdz> without diving deep into the technical side of things
[10:24] <fabbione> ogra: do you plan some reasonable amount of work on dexconf or just to fix ati vs radeon?
[10:24] <infinity> mdz: About 20 seconds after dapper releases, I would like to be able to set aside some company-sponsored time to sit down with David Nusinow and make sure our packaging and Debian's converge to a point where lots of these bugs can be part of a larger community problem.
[10:24] <ogra> infinity, at least small things like making the mouse protocal preseedable again (i wont do intrusive stuff in dapper)
[10:24] <doko> heno: I did see the reports :-)
[10:24] <mdz> infinity: indeed
[10:25] <heno> mdz: ok, so triaging X bugs, yep I'll have a look
[10:25] <fabbione> heno: cool
[10:25] <ogra> fabbione, i wanted to have dexconf working as good as it can without intrusive changes ... rewriting it for dapper+1 would be a future target
[10:25] <mdz> eek, we're not doing very well on time
[10:25] <mdz> fabbione: thanks
[10:25] <ogra> err +2
[10:25] <mdz> heno: anything to present for your part?
[10:25] <infinity> mdz: David and i have a reasonably good relationship as it stands, so I'll just need the go-ahead to do so, and Etch and dapper+1 should look much more similar, X-wise.  I hope.
[10:25] <heno>  * example-content DONE: Complete appart from a few screenshots in the documents and presentations that need updating
[10:25] <heno>  * winfoss DONE: The layout has been given a complete overhaul for dapper, borrowing design elements from the desktop (icons and colours). A new version was uploaded on Monday. I consider it complete appart from fresh screenshots that will be needed once the Ubuntu desktop has settled. See: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WinFOSS
[10:25] <heno>  * winfoss TODO: Modify the new skin for kubuntu and coordinate app selection with Riddell
[10:25] <heno>  * accessibility: I'm waiting for certain key packages to be seeded to the live CD so it can be tested
[10:26] <Keybuk> heno: welcome aboard the team, btw
[10:26] <mdz> infinity: seems completely appropriate
[10:26] <heno> thx :)
[10:26] <mdz> heno: who are you working with to get the seeding done?
[10:26] <Kamion> mdz: Mithrandir
[10:26] <heno> it was Tollef
[10:26] <mdz> ok
[10:27] <heno> but I take it he is away
[10:27] <Kamion> yeah
[10:27] <mdz> infinity: would you help heno with that in Tollef's stead?
[10:27] <Kamion> he'll be back on Friday
[10:27] <mdz> oh, friday as in tomorroW?
[10:27] <mdz> hmm, yes
[10:27] <Kamion> er
[10:27] <infinity> mdz: Yeah.
[10:27] <Kamion> Monday
[10:27] <infinity> More likely Monday. :)
[10:27] <mdz> monday
[10:27] <infinity> Unless he works Friday night, "just cause".
[10:27] <dholbach> do we have enough space for additionaly a11y stuff on the CDs?
[10:28] <infinity> Either way.
[10:28] <Kamion> dholbach: "not sure"; that's why they haven't just been added
[10:28] <infinity> heno: I can help, if you need it.
[10:28] <dholbach> (there's one bug report about accessibility-themes added to the CDs)
[10:28] <mdz> dholbach: these are the questions we need to answer as part of the seeding process ;-)
[10:28] <Kamion> Mithrandir was researching the size changes
[10:28] <heno> It's not urgent. I just don't want it to fall between the cracks
[10:28] <dholbach> :-)
[10:28] <mdz> infinity: appreciated
[10:28] <heno> infinity: thanks
[10:28] <mdz> heno: thanks, and welcome again
[10:28] <mdz> infinity: next?
[10:28] <infinity> last week buildd: Same old, same old, tracking build failures.  Again, can I ask people to pretty please test before they upload?  Please?
[10:28] <Kamion> and, if they don't all get seeded, working with the a11y guys to work out which are the highest priorities
[10:28] <infinity> last week distro: Participate in the Flight-6 release, bugfixes and updates for LRM, MySQL, net-snmp, put on my jbailey hat and started triaging and local hacking on glibc and initramfs updates, transitioned to new libmysqlclient with different symbol versioning.
[10:28] <infinity> next week buildd: Setting up livefs builds for Xubuntu, getting dapper-autotest underway, and tracking down more universe build failures.
[10:28] <infinity> next week distro: Should be uploading glibc and initramfs, perhaps several times for the latter, as well as upstream version bumps for samba and subversion, and attacking more major bugs assigned to me over this last week.
[10:29] <mdz> infinity: is there a spec in the launchpad pipeline for streamlining build failure->bug report?
[10:29] <Keybuk> infinity: do you understand the glibc packaging?
[10:29] <infinity> Keybuk: Intimately.
[10:29] <infinity> mdz: Not one that I've written yet, I probably should.
[10:29] <Keybuk> good, I  need to pick your brains then
[10:29] <mdz> infinity: are you a bug contact for glibc now?
[10:29] <infinity> mdz: I am.
[10:29] <mdz> ok
[10:29] <iwj> infinity: Lucky you :-).
[10:29] <Keybuk> I can't work out how the hell to change the init script settings for nscd
[10:30] <mdz> infinity: mysql transition is complete with your recent uploads?
[10:30] <infinity> That's on my list of stuff to fix next week anyway.
[10:30] <infinity> mdz: In theory, if none of it fails.  I'll follow that up tonight and tomorrow.
[10:30] <mdz> ok
[10:30] <mdz> thanks infinity
[10:30] <mdz> iwj: next?
[10:30] <iwj> Bugfixing: nice collection of bug reports to try to fix, working through them atm.
[10:30] <iwj> Firefox: nice collection of bug reports to try to fix.
[10:30] <iwj> Firefox: Still having lots of reports of unwanted back/forward due to horizontal scrolling.  I thought that was fixed with an x.org config change ?  Anyone know what I should tell these users ?
[10:30] <iwj> Last week: was on holiday.
[10:30] <iwj> AutomatedTesting,DeveloperDocumentation: no progress since I got back.
[10:31] <iwj> It would be nice if pango/cairo weren't so dog slow, too.  I have a bug report which is an endless bitch-fest from people complaining that our ff is much slower than upstream.
[10:31] <lifeless> iwj: FWIW I want to have a good look at the automated testing stuff once bzr is fully done for dapper
[10:31] <mdz> I've been seeing a lot of unconfirmed/unanswered firefox bugs in my sweep going back a few months; did those not make it to you properly?
[10:32] <iwj> I don't have time to answer unconfirmed ff bugs.
[10:32] <iwj> I could do that but then I wouldn't be doing anything else.
[10:32] <mdz> someone needs to respond to those reports; they shouldn't be ignored
[10:32] <iwj> I answer them if they look like they could turn into a bugfix.
[10:33] <mdz> most of the ones I saw seemed like they should just go upstream
[10:33] <mdz> we certainly can't fix them all, but we should respond
[10:33] <seb128> forwarding upstream is good
[10:33] <doko> yes, an upstream status in malone would be nice (so you know that you did, which could be done)
[10:33] <iwj> I could write a few more form letters: `please take this upstream' and `should be a support request' maybe.
[10:33] <seb128> so there is a reply and upstream knows about them
[10:33] <Keybuk> doko: add a bug watch
[10:33] <mdz> iwj: if you can invest some time in a firefox bug triage howto, we can make it a bug day focus
[10:34] <pitti> doko: open an upstream task
[10:34] <fabbione> iwj: if they did customize their X config, there is nothing i can do
[10:34] <fabbione> iwj: they will have to add the line manually
[10:34] <seb128> pitti: upstream task should be used only for bugs forwarded
[10:34] <fabbione> iwj: or ask them to reconfigure
[10:34] <doko> Keybuk, pitti: yes, but the appear in your list of open reports again (unsorted)
[10:34] <pitti> seb128: yes, that's what I mean
[10:34] <mdz> iwj: that also helps to recruit people to help on an ongoing basis
[10:34] <seb128> pitti: they will make possible to open a task only if you have a upstream bug to point
[10:34] <seb128> k
[10:34] <pitti> doko: true
[10:34] <iwj> fabbione: Is there a standard answer that explains this or should I write one ?
[10:34] <mdz> iwj: given some direction on how to help, we can send out a call for help
[10:34] <iwj> fabbione: The bug is a bit full of discussion.
[10:35] <mdz> seb128: upstream tasks without upstream bugs are still useful, e.g. if there is an upstream bug contact
[10:35] <iwj> upstream tasks etc.> I asked the LP people and they wanted me to open an upstream task and set the Ubuntu task to rejected.
[10:35] <fabbione> iwj: well no, there is no standard answer..
[10:36] <iwj> But of course there's (in this case) no upstream bug contact or anything so that doesn't really work.
[10:36] <mdz> iwj: that's fair, but only if upstream actually hears about the bug along the way
[10:36] <Keybuk> I quite like to leave them as just Confirmed; that way I can still check in on them and see how upstream are doing with their ignoring of the bug
[10:36] <Keybuk> same as Needs Info really, handy to be in the list so you can check whether the reporter has given the info you wanted yet
[10:36] <mdz> I'm talking with LP folks about an email-based semi-automatic bug forwarding mechanism
[10:36] <mdz> also in the long term pipeline is semi-automatic filing of upstream bugs in their bug trackers
[10:36] <pitti> would be nice; click on 'create upstream bug', enter your upstream bz credentials, done (or so)
[10:36] <iwj> Tread carefully.  It would be so easy to make ourselves very unpopular.
[10:36] <mdz> but that has hairy issues to be resolved
[10:37] <seb128> mdz: you can't edit an upstream task with current launchpad, and by discussing on #launchpad they said it should always have an upstream bug watched
[10:37] <Keybuk> can you register new bugzillas yet?
[10:37] <seb128> you can for ages now
[10:37] <mvo> or new sf bugtrackers?
[10:37] <seb128> I think sf works too
[10:37] <dholbach> sf  bug trackers are problematic
[10:37] <mdz> iwj: my proposal is more or less equivalent to what we already do manually, just making the legwork more automatic in terms of collecting info into an email and providing a space for the explanation
[10:37] <Seveas> mvo, sf bugtrackers are impossible to integrate
[10:37] <mdz> but that's a mailing list discussion
[10:37] <seb128> dholbach: I though kiko made them work?
[10:38] <mdz> Keybuk: yes, I've done several
[10:38] <Seveas> you need magic numbers for them to work
[10:38] <mdz> please do register new bug trackers as you go
[10:38] <mdz> seb128: they "work" in that you can get bug links, but I don't think you get status info
[10:38] <mdz> anyway, we're short on time
[10:38] <iwj> mdz: mailing list discussion> Right.  Also it must be discussed with the upstream tracker's owners.
[10:38] <mdz> thanks iwj
[10:38] <mdz> Kamion: next?
[10:38] <Keybuk> mdz: where?  I've not found that link
[10:38] <Kamion> ubuntu-express-base-system: Network configuration done. Started working on propagating keyboard selection to the installed system.
[10:38] <Kamion> ubuntu-express: Merged component packaging into espresso proper, which means that I will no longer be blocked on problems of the form "I don't want to create yet another binary package for this".
[10:38] <Kamion> misc: Helped Tollef out with Flight 6. Fixed a couple of frequently-reported yaboot bugs and sorted out FAT/NTFS mount options, which were huge causes of annoyance for migrating users. Made all the uploads for updated Breezy CD images, though blocked on some archive issues. Set up Xubuntu CD images (apparently right first time).
[10:38] <Kamion> next-week: Finish propagating keyboard selection to installed system. choose-mirror/apt-setup should be easy now that component packaging has been reorganised, so I'll do that next. Better hostname defaults. Fix reboot step. Chase up a few bits of work I've delegated. After that I think I'll be happy enough with Espresso's functional state for the Dapper beta release.
[10:39] <mdz> Keybuk: https://launchpad.net/malone/bugtrackers/
[10:39] <mdz> Keybuk: "register bug tracker"
[10:39] <Keybuk> ah, I was trying to find it from the "+ Upstream" thingy
[10:39] <mdz> Kamion: I have some handwritten notes from my last espresso run that I'd like to review with you tomorrow
[10:39] <Seveas> (Kamion: xubuntu f-6 works like a charm indeed)
[10:39] <Kamion> mdz: sure
[10:40] <mdz> how did flight 6 go behind the scenes?
[10:40] <ogra> pretty lengthy this time 
[10:40] <mdz> is the process scaling to more people and reducing your workload?
[10:40] <ogra> the preparation took longer than others i found
[10:41] <Kamion> ogra: it only took longer because there was a necessary and protracted investigation of a single bug
[10:41] <mdz> Kamion: do you feel that we're getting enough espresso testing?
[10:41] <infinity> It actually would have been reasonably smooth, had it not been for mkisofs angering us.
[10:41] <ogra> Kamion, ah, i wasnt around for two days, didnt get that 
[10:41] <mdz> I haven't come across too many bug reports in my sweep
[10:41] <Kamion> mdz: scaling> yes, seems to be working pretty well with the unholy trinity of Mithrandir, infinity, and me
[10:41] <Kamion> mdz: I did relatively little this time round actually, I was mostly just being debian-cd code monkey
[10:41] <mdz> infinity: are you up to speed on sync processing?
[10:42] <infinity> mdz: No, since it was just announced that the tool works again.  I need to poke elmo about how it works.
[10:42] <infinity> (Or even what it's called)
[10:42] <Kamion> mdz: I'm getting plenty of reports of the things that affect everyone, and I'm keeping them fairly well-triaged for the most part. I'm not getting so much of the things that only affect certain classes of users (e.g. keyboard layouts, odd partition layouts, etc.) but that's to be expected
[10:42] <Kamion> infinity: sync-source.py
[10:43] <mdz> Kamion: ok, thanks
[10:43] <infinity> Kamion: scrpits/ftpmaster?
[10:43] <mdz> Keybuk: next?
[10:43] <Keybuk> last week: bugs, siretart and I made wpasupplicant identical in Debian and Ubuntu and all fluffy and stuff
[10:43] <Keybuk> next week: bugs, nm bug day planned, ftp lessons with Kamion
[10:43] <Keybuk> n-m: latest problem is that because it's running on the Live CD it means you can't configure a static IP, or bring up ppp, etc. because NM reverts whatever you do
[10:43] <Kamion> mdz: I think it's adequate testing for now. Any more and I'd be swamped with duplicates of the things that affect everyone.
[10:43] <Kamion> infinity: yeah, or on lp_archive's $PATH
[10:43] <mdz> Keybuk: any decent feedback from its presence on the live CD?
[10:43] <mdz> Keybuk: I've no objection to dropping it
[10:43] <Keybuk> mdz: yeah, mostly bad, sadly
[10:43] <mdz> Keybuk: we're beyond hope of adding it to desktop, right?
[10:44] <Keybuk> definitely beyond hope
[10:44] <mdz> ok
[10:44] <Kamion> Keybuk: dropping it from the live CD would also avoid a hairy espresso problem
[10:44] <mdz> let's do it
[10:44] <Keybuk> you can add it to desktop, but I'm sure as hell not being bug contact for it if you do that <g>
[10:44] <mdz> Keybuk: thanks
[10:44] <Kamion> because at present it removes network-manager from the installed system because it's a live-CD-only thing
[10:44] <mdz> JaneW: mithrandir's update?
[10:44] <Kamion> which confuses people who've managed to set up their networking with n-m
[10:44] <Keybuk> I'm glad we tried it, but it's just not ready or mature enough yet
[10:44] <JaneW> Mithrandir: misc: released flight-6, tested i2o support in the installer, bug triage, vacation
[10:44] <JaneW> next week: more vacation, espresso hacking, bug triage
[10:44] <JaneW> blocked on: nothing in particular
[10:44] <JaneW> Not a very exciting update, but flight-6 took most of my time and energy last week. 
[10:45] <pitti> Keybuk: so, is it still a thing for main then?
[10:45] <mdz> Keybuk: if there isn't already a "here's how to install NM with g-a-i" doc in the wiki, please talk to the doc team about creating one
[10:45] <Keybuk> pitti: I think we can at least "support" it
[10:45] <Keybuk> mdz: there is I believe
[10:45] <infinity> pitti: I'll move it from live to supporter in all seeds right now.
[10:45] <Keybuk> I'll check with Corey
[10:45] <mdz> since many people will want to try it even if it isn't ready for prime-time, we'll want to mention it in the beta announce
[10:45] <pitti> infinity: maybe ship, but yes
[10:45] <mdz> JaneW: thanks
[10:45] <seb128> infinity: ship would be nice
[10:45] <mdz> mvo: next?
[10:45] <infinity> pitti: Fair.  ship it is.
[10:45] <Keybuk> mvo: it's still in g-a-i, right?
[10:45] <mvo> Did:
[10:45] <mvo> - bug triage/fixes 
[10:45] <mvo> - dist-upgrader authentication sorted (thanks to Daniel Silverstone for his help), bugfixing in u-m
[10:45] <mvo> - auto-dist-upgrade test setup runing on my test i386
[10:45] <mvo> - gnome-app-install dekstop file updates, better runtime duplicates detection, fixing
[10:45] <mvo> - update-manager dist-upgrade from dapper->dapper+1 planing, sabdfl suggested to just skip it 
[10:46] <mvo> - update-manager breezy backport finished, waits for #36022
[10:46] <mvo> - update-notifier fixes (and a bad upload), better debugging support for hook problems
[10:46] <mvo> Will do:
[10:46] <mvo> - more bugfixing/bug triage (still lacking behind)
[10:46] <mvo> - hopefuly upload update-manager into breezy-updates
[10:46] <mvo> - language-selector-qt missing langpack detection 
[10:46] <mvo> Blocked:
[10:46] <mvo> - python-vte moving to breezy-updates/main: #36022
[10:46] <mvo> - sysadmin setup for the auto-dist-upgrade
[10:46] <mvo> Keybuk: n-m? yes
[10:46] <mdz> mvo: we need the upgrader in breezy for beta
[10:46] <Kamion> mdz: blocked on launchpad bug as mvo says
[10:46] <mdz> ah, you already commented on the bug
[10:47] <mdz> I'll chase it with kiko also
[10:47] <mvo> mdz: even if it python-vte is not in breezy-upates/main?
[10:47] <mdz> mvo: I thought that was a prerequisite?
[10:47] <mvo> mdz: yes, that is why I was asking :)
[10:47] <mdz> mvo: any interesting results from the auto-dist-upgrade test?
[10:48] <mvo> mdz: sabdfl suggested to just not offer dapper->dapper+1 upgrades by defualt
[10:48] <mdz> mvo: s/suggested/requested/ for sabdfl btw ;-)
[10:48] <mvo> haha
[10:48] <mvo> right
[10:48] <mvo> mdz: nothing interessting on i386 from the auto-dist-upgrade tests, works very well currently
[10:49] <mdz> but certainly we need to allow the user to explicitly request an upgrade and use our nice new tool
[10:49] <mvo> yes, I think I'll just add a gconf-key or a commandline option (or both)
[10:49] <mdz> can you send me an email with your proposed solution?
[10:49] <mdz> ok
[10:49] <mdz> mvo: thanks
[10:49] <mvo> because we will have power-users who will want to upgrade
[10:49] <mdz> ogra: next?
[10:49] <mvo> thanks
[10:50] <mdz> ogra: hello?   we'll come back to you
[10:50] <mdz> pitti: next?
[10:50] <ogra> * general: flight 6, more edubuntu-artwork work, bughunt (the "screensaver activates regardless of user input" seems fixed, someone who can reproduce the flickering is working on a patch (these were my two worst bugs))
[10:50] <ogra> * next-week: more bughunt, edubuntu and ltsp documentation, waiting for some pre-final artwork from the design company for edubuntu-artwork to finish the package, do some tests to find out if separate langpacks for kdeedu probably solve the space problem on the edubuntu CD
[10:50] <ogra> * additionally: due to some big bad changes in life, my GF and i will have to give up the house move to the other side of the country and have to solve a lot of additional stuff. so please bear with me the next time, my RL will get very very weird and dizzy for some months...
[10:50] <ogra> err
[10:50] <mdz> ah, there you are
[10:50] <ogra> sorry 
[10:50] <mdz> ogra: I just got the "screensaver activates regardless of user input" issue today, oddly enough on a desktop
[10:50] <mdz> I thought it was suspend-related
[10:51] <mdz> but later it went away
[10:51] <ogra> it is g-p-m related
[10:51] <ogra> is the system up to date with my tonights change  ?
[10:51] <mdz> ogra: very sorry about the big badness
[10:51] <ogra> g-s-s has a so called emergency lock thats set after suspend ...
[10:51] <mdz> keep me informed of your plans and let me know if I can help
[10:52] <mdz> thanks ogra
[10:52] <ogra> mdz, it has some positive aspects (i can tell you not not a meeting)
[10:52] <mdz> pitti: next?
[10:52] <pitti> reducing-duplication: no progress since last week
[10:52] <pitti> general stuff done this week:
[10:52] <pitti>  * security updates
[10:52] <pitti>  * bug triage and bug fixing
[10:52] <pitti>  * started to attack the cups mess; 1.2rc1 doesn't work at all for us; if KDE gets ported RSN, I'll stick with our svn snapshot and merge upstream bug fixes; if not, I seriously consider reverting to 1.1.23 (discussion welcome)
[10:52] <pitti>  * langpacks: built first test version with Rosetta data, get rosetta+buildd merging/import mostly automated now, automatically create statistics and daily report; rosetta is still missing about 2/3 of all translations (a huge part of that is KDE), but the exported ones look good now
[10:52] <pitti> plan for next week:
[10:52] <pitti>  * new langpacks for dapper (with Rosetta love)
[10:52] <pitti>  * get cupsys into a better shape
[10:52] <pitti>  * bugs, bugs, bugs
[10:52] <mdz> pitti: care to look at gs with iwj under the heading of reducing-duplication?
[10:52] <pitti> mdz: sure
[10:53] <mdz> Riddell: I didn't receive an email about kdeprint, is one forthcoming?
[10:53] <doko> pitti: ugh, should we coordinate with the debian printing team? they stabilize with the 1.1 release as well?
[10:53] <mdz> pitti: are the missing translations due to that issue where many templates need to be manually approved?
[10:53] <pitti> doko: kmuto and I work on the 1.2 branch mainly
[10:53] <mdz> there's a debian printing team?
[10:54] <pitti> mdz: no, KDE translations are shipped separately; carlos fixed the import AFAIUI, now it's a matter of backlog
[10:54] <mdz> pitti: where are the statistics and daily report published?
[10:54] <Riddell> mdz: he's said he'll think about how he can find the time and get back soon, I'll e-mail him again to press him on the issue
[10:54] <pitti> mdz: http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/langpacks/rosetta-buildd-diff-report.txt, and daily spam to launchpad@
[10:54] <mdz> Riddell: just let him know that it makes a difference in some time-critical decisions we need to make
[10:55] <Riddell> mdz: yep
[10:55] <mdz> I am very behind on launchpad@
[10:55] <mdz> thanks pitti
[10:55] <mdz> Riddell: next?
[10:56] <Riddell> done: KDE Espresso, getting quite usable now
[10:56] <Riddell> also: flight 6, bugfixes, e-mailing with Gael Duval, kubuntu-docs update, knetworkmanager testing
[10:56] <highvoltage> 10:55 < mdz> thanks pitti
[10:56] <Riddell> next week: KDE Espresso
[10:56] <pitti> highvoltage: ?
[10:56] <mdz> Riddell: I saw a lot of unconfirmed kde bugs in my sweep, any problems there?
[10:56] <mdz> as elsewhere, I made explicit assignments where it looked like a bug had fallen through the cracks
[10:56] <highvoltage> pitti: sorry, kid in the office who decided he wants to play with my laptop
[10:57] <Riddell> mdz: lack of time mostly, espresso being the priority just now, I'll try and triage them soon
[10:57] <mdz> there seems to be at least one person in the community helping triage kubuntu bugs
[10:57] <mdz> but there is a large backlog
[10:58] <mdz> maybe ask the community for help?
[10:58] <mdz> Riddell: thanks
[10:58] <Riddell> yes, bug days have brought in some good community help, I should make sure it's clear to them where they can help most
[10:58] <mdz> seb128: next?
[10:58] <seb128> This week: load of bug triage (bug mails backlog almost clean now), started really working at fixing some bugs, packaged gaim 2.0beta3 (package on people.ubuntu.com), did some bug fixing and package patching
[10:58] <seb128> ...
[10:58] <seb128> Next week: GNOME 2.14.1, will update wiki desktop TODO page with bugs and tasks that would be nice for contributors, keep catching up with coming bug mails and patching
[10:59] <mdz> where is the wiki page?
[10:59] <dholbach> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam
[10:59] <mdz> perhaps we should collect all of the areas where we need help and make one big call to the community
[10:59] <seb128> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/TODO
[10:59] <dholbach> and ../TODO and ... :)
[11:00] <seb128> we started it but it lacks content
[11:00] <mdz> we've identified a few areas during this meeting
[11:00] <seb128> bug catchup is done, I've tagged lot of stuff with dapper milestone
[11:00] <Keybuk> oops
[11:00] <mdz> Keybuk: we're almost done, but not quite ;-)
[11:00] <seb128> now I can make lists for contributors, and start assigning
[11:00] <Keybuk> I closed a couple of tabs, and x-chat jumped through them in random order
[11:00] <mdz> seb128: sounds good
[11:00] <mdz> seb128: thanks
[11:00] <mdz> Kinnison: next?
[11:01] <Kinnison> gnome-power-manager (PowerManagementInterface): Uploaded 2.14.0-0ubuntu1 after flight6 was done, continued reading CVS changelogs and diffs.
[11:01] <Kinnison> launchpad: provided mvo with a way to test the signed dist-upgrader stuff. Worked out how to fix the d-i handling to support pockets. Wrote tests for uploader for from a while back.
[11:01] <Kinnison> gparted: tried to work out why with the installer-mode patch the new gparted breaks. Not yet worked it out.
[11:01] <Kinnison> otherwise: Solving bugs which mdz throws at me mostly. Many are difficult to reproduce. I have a reasonable amount of these on the go.
[11:01] <Kinnison> publisher: Investigated where the time is taken in the publisher and wrote detailed report for kiko and mdz.
[11:01] <Kinnison> lp-ongoing: Enhance the test set I added to exercise more of the uploader's decision paths. Merge the sign dist-upgrader stuff and the d-i pocket support. Possibly look at the publisher from a speedup PoV depending on priorities.
[11:01] <Kinnison> distro-ongoing: gparted ui bug; continue squashing the set of random bugs. Review the bugs open on g-p-m, try to get enough for upstream to do g-p-m 2.14.1 for us. Again, I'll try and do some espresso UI stuff if I can.
[11:01] <Kinnison> [end] 
[11:01] <mdz> Kinnison: can you look into the lp bug blocking mvo?
[11:01] <Kinnison> mvo: bug number?
[11:01] <JaneW> sivang: ping?
[11:02] <mdz> Kinnison: was in his update
[11:02] <mdz> 35022
[11:02] <mdz> 36022 even
[11:02] <mdz> I'm hoping it's shallow
[11:02] <Kamion> (the d-i pocket support is needed for updated breezy CD images BTW)
[11:02] <Kinnison> mdz: Should be fairly shallow, sure
[11:02] <Kinnison> Kamion: is that now a priority?
[11:03] <Kamion> Kinnison: the critical bug about it was opened a couple of weeks ago, if that counts :P
[11:03] <mdz> Kinnison: if you can provide some analysis I'm sure that would speed things
[11:03] <mdz> is cprov back?
[11:03] <Kinnison> I don't know when cprov is due back
[11:03] <Kamion> Kinnison: I think mvo's stuff is higher-priority though
[11:03] <Kamion> Kinnison: (assuming that, if necessary, a change can be monkeyed when we need it)
[11:03] <mdz> ok
[11:03] <Kinnison> Kamion: ook
[11:03] <mdz> we're out of time
[11:03] <mdz> thanks Kinnison
[11:04] <mdz> anything else, follow up via email
[11:04] <mdz> good time-of-day, all
[11:04] <ogra> thanks 
[11:04] <mvo> thanks
[11:04] <dholbach> thanks mdz :)
[11:04] <seb128> thank you mdz
[11:04] <Keybuk> mdz: you need to change your e-mail address
[11:04] <doko> thanks
[11:04] <Keybuk> bogofilter thinks mdz is a very bad word
[11:05] <JaneW> thanks all
[11:05] <pitti> thanks all
[11:05] <pitti> just a little announcement:
[11:05] <pitti> http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/scripts/requestsync
[11:05] <pitti> that will generate a bug report for a sync request
[11:05] <pitti> with changelog and all that
[11:05] <seb128> pitti: did you read the announce mail about syncs beeing back?
[11:05] <pitti> I need to file about 30 bugs, and more in the future
[11:05] <Kinnison> pitti: does it update the wiki etc?
[11:05] <seb128> and you having to file launchpad bugs for that
[11:05] <pitti> Kinnison: wiki?
[11:06] <pitti> seb128: that's what that script does :)
[11:06] <seb128> ups
[11:06] <pitti> I was just too lazy to manually file 30 bugs
[11:06] <seb128> I thought you were pointed to the "do a sync yourself" one :)
[11:06] <pitti> I rather enjoy writing some python to do it for me
[11:06] <pitti> seb128: no, not any more
[11:06] <Kinnison> pitti: sorry, misread the mail
[11:06] <pitti> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/bomberclone/+bug/38364
[11:07] <pitti> ^ example result
[11:07] <Keybuk> "bomberclone"
[11:07] <seb128> nice
[11:07] <seb128> handy :)
[11:07] <Seveas> "Terrorist Pitti"
[11:07] <pitti> $ requestsync bomberclone dapper
[11:07] <pitti> ^ how to use it
[11:07] <pitti> it asks for confirmation, don't worry
[11:08] <pitti> so, enjoy
[11:08] <Seveas> anyway, now that I had a brain infusion thanks to mdz, ubugtu will support sf trackers too 
[11:08] <pitti> Keybuk: it was the next one on the sync list, and that one is alphabetical :)
[11:08] <Keybuk> I'm so naming my next piece of software "suicidebomber"
[11:08] <mdz> Seveas: hmm? how did I help?
[11:09] <Seveas> mdz, by confirming that launchpad supports them so that there is a way to do it
[11:09] <Seveas> that was sort-of an eye-opener :) 
[11:10] <mdz> heh
[11:10] <mdz> my pleasure
[11:10] <mdz> unfortunately, every SF project needs to be added separately
[11:10] <Seveas> yes, that's crap
[11:11] <Seveas> but at least it's possible
[11:11] <mvo> every sf project bugtracker will become a bit crowed
[11:11] <mvo> it is already pretty big (the list)
[11:12] <Seveas> there's no other way
[11:12] <Seveas> you can't guess a bug url with only a bug number
[11:12] <mdz> yeah, apparently they don't have globally unique bug numbers or something
[11:13] <azeem> smart
[11:13] <mdz> or if they do, you still need the project ID to construct a URL
[11:14] <Seveas> the latter
[11:14] <Seveas> you need project id and tracker id
[11:14] <Kamion> I think they must have globally unique bug numbers, if nothing else because the bug numbers on a new project are so damn long
[11:15] <Seveas> Showing off:
[11:15] <Seveas>  gaim bug 1464606
[11:15] <Seveas> narf
[11:15] <azeem> vorfuehreffekt
[11:15] <Seveas> @config channel plugins.bugtracker.bugsnarfer True
[11:15] <Seveas>  gaim bug 1464606
[11:15] <Ubugtu> Gaim bug 1464606 "Jabber typing notification is broken" [Pri: 5,Open]  http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=235&atid=100235&func=detail&aid=1464606
[11:15] <Seveas> insane url....
[11:16] <Seveas> but anyway: sf tracking now works 
[11:16] <Keybuk> Seveas: at least it doesn't have random +s in it
[11:16] <Seveas> feel free to submit interesting bugtrackers
[11:16] <Keybuk> /+tracker/
[11:16] <Keybuk> :p
[11:16] <Seveas> Keybuk, hehe
[11:17] <Seveas> I should write a tinyurl wrapper around those insane sf urls
[11:34] <Seveas> gaim bug 1464711
[11:34] <Ubugtu> Gaim bug 1464711 "Large Buddy Icons make interface unusable" [Pri: 5,Open]  http://tinyurl.com/s87mb
[11:34] <Seveas> no more insanely long urls 
[11:40] <seb128> :)
[12:27] <Kamion> Seveas: urgh, tinyurl is more annoying than the original for that
[12:27] <Kamion> I like to be able to see where I'm actually going
[12:27] <Kamion> hate URL obfuscators
[12:28] <lifeless> me too
[12:28] <lifeless> loath and fear
[12:28] <Kamion> Seveas: something that redirected from sane URL syntax (e.g. /sourceforgebugs/projectname/bugnumber or something) to sf's syntax would be fine, but I don't think replacing them with an opaque string is useful
[12:29] <Seveas> ok, so I either annoy you by using tinyurl or I annoy fabbione for using insanely long urls  the question is: who do I fear most? :) 
[12:30] <lifeless> Seveas: kamion, definately
[12:30] <ogra> Seveas, just implement tinyurl on your server and make it use Kamions preferred format ? :)
[12:31] <Seveas> ogra, perhaps, but I only have long hostnames (ubugtu lives on bugbot.ubuntulinux.nl)
[12:31] <Kamion> that's not a long hostname
[12:32] <Kamion> myhostnameislongerthanyourhostname.mit.edu is a long hostname
[12:32] <Seveas> hehe
[12:32] <ogra> and it could probably move to tinyurl.ubuntu.com one day ;)
[12:32] <Kamion> or was, when it existed
[12:32] <Seveas> anyway - I'll ponder about it a bit
[12:33] <Seveas> would bugbut.ubuntulinux.nl/sfbug.cgi?id=123213 work?
[12:33] <Seveas> (and make you a happy camper again)
[12:34] <ogra> bugbut.ubuntulinux.nl/sfbug.cgi?project=xyz&id=123213 ?
[12:34] <Seveas> project is already in the bug description
[12:34] <ogra> ah
[12:34] <Seveas> gaim bug 1464711
[12:34] <Ubugtu> Gaim bug 1464711 "Large Buddy Icons make interface unusable" [Pri: 5,Open]  http://tinyurl.com/s87mb
[12:34] <ogra> fine then :)
[12:35] <Seveas> ok - will implement a piece of sqlite glue 
[12:35] <ogra> :)
[12:35] <ogra> i know you love to write such stuff :)
[12:36] <Seveas> hehe
[12:38] <Kamion> Seveas: sfbug.cgi seems reasonable
[12:39] <Kamion> thanks :)
[12:39] <Seveas> In a previous life it would have been sfbug.php
[12:39] <Seveas> but I grew up
[12:39] <Kamion> I don't really like extensions in URLs at all, personally
[12:40] <Kamion> they mean you have to break old URLs if you reimplement
[12:40] <Seveas> me neither, but it's easier to setup a cgi script then a complete django thing
[12:40] <Seveas> and somehow mod_rewrite hates me when I try to combine it with cgi
[12:41] <Kamion> surely you don't need mod_rewrite
[12:41] <Kamion> you just need to add a cgi-script handler for whatever you call it
[12:41] <Kamion> apache isn't actually totally dependent on extensions, it just looks a bit like it sometimes :)
[12:42] <Seveas> true, but I like extensions on my filesystem
[12:42] <Seveas> *.cgi *.tmpl *.py - just identifies things a bit better
[12:48] <Seveas> gaim bug 1464711
[12:48] <Ubugtu> Gaim bug 1464711 "Large Buddy Icons make interface unusable" [Pri: 5,Open]  None
[12:48] <Seveas> hmm
[12:51] <Seveas> gaim bug 1464711
[12:51] <Ubugtu> Gaim bug 1464711 "Large Buddy Icons make interface unusable" [Pri: 5,Open]  http://bugbot.ubuntulinux.nl/sfbugs.cgi?id=1464711
[12:51] <Seveas> Kamion, --^
[12:52] <Seveas> (url's don't work yet)
[12:58] <Kamion> looks much nicer, thanks
[01:03] <Seveas> ok, urls now actually work