[12:28] <ajmitch> morning
[12:28] <pygi> morning ajmitch
[12:29] <LaserJock> hi ajmitch
[12:33] <Se7h> LaserJock quick question, when ls -l cant read the content of some dir ,does that means is corrupted?
[12:33] <ajmitch> or permission denied
[12:33] <Se7h> hi btw
[12:33] <ajmitch> hello
[12:34] <Se7h> ma bad...not the content...it just 'cant' read its info
[12:34] <Se7h> ?---------  ? ?    ?            ?                ? /media/icy_more/downloads <- to be more specific
[12:34] <ajmitch> interesting
[12:34] <Se7h> very lol
[12:34] <ajmitch> empty permissions set
[12:35] <ajmitch> what's with the ? in there?
[12:35] <Se7h> i dunno, some dirs there are like that, and i just hope its not curropted
[12:35] <Se7h> *corrupted
[12:35] <ajmitch> possibly
[12:35] <ajmitch> what fs is it?
[12:35] <Se7h> ext3
[12:35] <crimsun> Lathiat: ping
[12:35] <Se7h> no
[12:35] <Se7h> fat sorry
[12:35] <ajmitch> fsck it
[12:35] <ajmitch> ah
[12:36] <ajmitch> fat is more likely to corrupt, and it doesn't have permissions anyway
[12:36] <ajmitch> check the mount options
[12:36] <Se7h> its normal like the other partitions
[12:37] <LaserJock> hi Se7h (belated)
[12:38] <LaserJock> and I have no idea
[12:39] <Se7h> ajmitch any idea?
[12:39] <Se7h> besides corruption
[12:40] <ajmitch> nope
[12:40] <ajmitch> I rarely use fat
[12:41] <Se7h> well, i do in this case cus its external, and i need to be able to access it on other machines
[12:41] <crimsun> Lathiat: sorry, unping
[12:42] <ajmitch> crimsun: it would have been an optimistic ping
[12:42] <dholbach> good night
[12:42] <crimsun> night daniel
[12:42] <pygi> night dholbach
[12:42] <dholbach> night guys :)
[12:42] <ajmitch> night dholbach
[01:47] <Se7h> motus question
[01:48] <Se7h> one package depending on gtk has to have a 'libx11' build-dep ?
[01:52] <LaserJock> Se7h: I don't quite understand the question?
[01:53] <Se7h> one app depending on gtk2
[01:53] <Se7h> on build-deps needs to have libx11 for example besides libgtk ?
[01:54] <crimsun> no
[01:55] <crimsun> apt-cache depends libgtk2.0-dev |grep x11 Depends: libx11-dev
[01:56] <Se7h> crimsun yes i know, but some debian packager send me a source package for debian witch im packaging for ubuntu, and his had all X libs in it...
[01:56] <Se7h> the doubt came
[01:56] <Se7h> didn't make much sense tho
[01:56] <crimsun> Se7h: then keep his version, but submit a patch to BTS for debian/control
[01:57] <crimsun> those differences are best minimised in Ubuntu to avoid unnecessary deltas
[01:57] <Se7h> crimsun cant i just suggest him to change that for himself? (since it hasnt been uploaded yet)
[01:58] <crimsun> Se7h: certainly
[01:58] <crimsun> he should know that as a Debian maintainer/developer
[02:00] <Se7h> yes, when i saw his package it looked a little odd...but could be some wierd rule or something...i dunno
[02:30] <bddebian> Heya Gang
[02:30] <LaserJock> hi bddebian
[02:30] <bddebian> Heya LaserJock
[02:31] <crimsun> lo bddebian, LaserJock
[02:31] <LaserJock> hiya crimsun
[02:31] <Se7h> hi bddebian
[02:32] <bddebian> Heya crimsun, Se7h
[02:34] <crimsun> 'lo Hobbsee
[02:34] <Hobbsee> hey crimsun
[02:34] <Hobbsee> what am i going to do today?
[02:34] <crimsun> taking over the world
[02:34] <crimsun> err, take over the world
[02:34] <bddebian> "they're pinky and the brain"..
[02:34] <Hobbsee> ooh that could be fun
[02:34] <bddebian> Hello Hobbsee
[02:35] <Hobbsee> hey bddebian
[02:35] <bddebian> bbiam
[02:56] <zul> bddebian: thats one of my favorite cartoons of all time too bad its not on anymore
[02:56] <bddebian> zul: :-)
[02:56] <zul> narf!
[02:57] <bddebian> hehe
[02:57] <bddebian> So if desktop-file-validate just dumps back to the CL, it's OK?
[03:04] <crimsun> echo $?
[03:06] <bddebian> echo, echo, echo...
[03:06] <bddebian> Heya slomo_
[03:27] <persia> bddebian: Yes, as all good tools, desktop-file-validate is silent when successful.
[03:28] <bddebian> heh
[03:28] <bddebian> Hello persia
[03:28] <persia> Hello bddebian.
[03:28] <crimsun> bddebian: I meant that if it's 0, yes, it's ok.
[03:29] <bddebian> crimsun: :-)
[04:30] <Unfrgiven> LaserJock: hey dude
[04:33] <Unfrgiven> hi everyone... needed a hand with packaging a kernel module. im trying to get the rules file right atm. before running make clean, i need to set the KERNELPATH environment variable to the path of the kernel headers. i tried doing a "export KERNELPATH=$(KSRC)" but $(KSRC) is empty! does anyone here know what var i should be using?
[04:34] <LaserJock> Unfrgiven: hi, got your email. thanks
[04:35] <Unfrgiven> LaserJock: i got yours to ubuntu-devel. so doc freeze is in force now?
[04:35] <bddebian> Unfrgiven: Is it set somewhere?  A kernel source path is just going to be there I wouldn't think?
[04:37] <Unfrgiven> bddebian: well i can't see where it is being set but the rules file that dh_make generated refers to $(KSRC) all over the place. so I assumed it was being set. do i just need to hardcode it?
[04:39] <bddebian> Hmm, is kernel-headers a build-dep?  Maybe it sets it?
[04:40] <Unfrgiven> bddebian: i set the dep to linux-headers-2.6.15-20 in control. now there is a control.modules.in which i gather is supposed to generate a control file, but i dont know how to get it to generate the file.
[04:40] <Unfrgiven> bddebian: correction, i set the build-dep to linux-headers-2.6.15-20
[04:41] <bddebian> Unfrgiven: I'm just grasping at straws, I don't really know :-(
[04:41] <LaserJock> Unfrgiven: it is, but I can make small changes ok
[04:42] <Unfrgiven> bddebian: i dont want to bug the team in ubuntu-devel, im sure they're busy enough. do you know anyone else that might know?
[04:42] <bddebian> Unfrgiven: If you do "echo $KSRC" do you get anything?
[04:42] <Unfrgiven> LaserJock: cool!
[04:42] <Unfrgiven> bddebian: nup, tried it
[04:42] <Unfrgiven> bddebian: i actually put a bunch of echos in the rules file itself. the value is empty
[04:43] <bddebian> Is this fixing an existing package or a totally new package?
[04:44] <Unfrgiven> bddebian: totally new
[04:46] <bddebian> KSRC=/lib/modules/`uname -r`/build ?
[04:47] <bddebian> That's not right
[04:48] <Unfrgiven> bddebian: no, its more likely to be KSRC=/usr/src/linux-headers-$VERSION
[04:48] <bddebian> though it does look like you either need to call it like:  "debian/rules build KSRC=/foo/bar" or maybe statically define it in the urles file
[04:49] <Unfrgiven> bddebian: but im using dpkg-buildpackage to build the source package. so maybe i have to pass in the parameter to dpkg-buildpackage?
[04:50] <bddebian> I would think that or statically define it in rules.
[04:53] <Unfrgiven> bddebian: it looks like thats the way to do it.
[04:58] <bddebian> Unfrgiven: Excellent
[05:05] <bddebian> ajmitch:  You around?
[05:10] <ajmitch> maybe
[05:17] <bddebian> ajmitch: Never mind I think I figured it out.  I was looking at firestarter
[05:22] <ajmitch> OK
[05:24] <bddebian> Though I'm sure it's WRONG ;-P
[05:28] <bddebian> Damnit, why is this dpatch not applying :-(
[05:30] <bddebian> ajmitch: When doing dpatch-edit-patch, do I need to run debian/rules patch before patching?
[05:30] <LaserJock> doesn't dpatch-edit-patch apply the patch before you start editing
[05:32] <bddebian> I thought so but firestarter.desktop.in didn't have the 01_patch.dpatch applied which is why I think mine is failing :-(
[05:36] <ajmitch> bddebian: what's in debian/patches/00list ?
[05:38] <bddebian> ajmitch: Patches :-)
[05:39] <bddebian> ajmitch: Sorry, couldn't resist.  You want to know the contents of the file?
[05:39] <ajmitch> yes
[05:40] <bddebian> 01_use_gksu
[05:40] <bddebian> 03_xpm_icon
[05:40] <bddebian> 05_remove_INSTALL_from_README
[05:40] <bddebian> 06_dot_not_hyphen
[05:40] <bddebian> 09_fix_ip_up
[05:40] <bddebian> 10_dhcp_hook
[05:40] <bddebian> 11_desktop_file
[05:40] <ajmitch> uh
[05:40] <bddebian> 11_desktop_file is the one I just made
[05:41] <ajmitch> right
[05:41] <ajmitch> and what is failing?
[05:41] <bddebian> Mine  11_desktop..
[05:42] <bddebian> applying patch 11_desktop_file to ./ ... failed.
[05:42] <ajmitch> so check why it's failing :)
[05:43] <ajmitch> if the others are being applied before that, they should show up
[05:45] <bddebian> Oh, fixed it, that was dump
[05:45] <bddebian> Err dumb even
[05:45] <ajmitch> and you can play around with stuff like 'dpatch apply-all --verbose'
[05:45] <ajmitch> ok
[05:45] <ajmitch> what did you break?
[05:46] <persia> bddebian: When I have that trouble, I usually discover that another path is modifying the file I wish to change.  In this case it is 01_use_gksu.dpatch.
[05:46] <bddebian> As I said, the previous patches weren't applied.. As persia just pointed out :_)
[05:48] <havoc> evening people
[05:48] <havoc> long time, no see
[05:48] <ajmitch> hi
[05:48] <havoc> ajmitch: hiya :)
[05:48] <bddebian> Hello havoc
[05:49] <havoc> so, chillywilly may get his way; I think I'm going ubuntu all the way
[05:49] <bddebian> w000t :-)
[05:49] <havoc> at least on the non-in-production-already machines
[05:49] <havoc> those will have to get switched later
[05:50] <havoc> so what's the latest?
[05:54] <Se7h> im sleepy
[05:55] <truz24> word
[06:06] <persia> bddebian: If you are in a .desktop uploading mood, I'd be more than happy to point you to more patches.  #38669 being one of the latest.
[06:11] <LaserJock> hi minghua
[06:12] <minghua> hi LaserJock
[06:15] <bddebian> persia: That's all I have been doing lately :-)
[06:15] <bddebian> Hello minghua
[06:16] <minghua> hi bddebian
[06:17] <havoc> so release date is coming up?
[06:20] <havoc> ok, so what exactly is edubuntu?
[06:21] <persia> bddebian: Well then: #32380, #32756, #38669, #36367, #33558, #33562 are all mostly ready to go, if you'd be willing :)  Any feedback would be welcome.
[06:21] <bddebian> persia: OK, I won't be able to get to them tonight but I'll check them out.  Thanks!
[06:22] <havoc> seems to be targeted at kids/schools
[06:22] <persia> Ah, right.  My apologies: I forget about timezones.
[06:23] <LaserJock> havoc: well, I think most any educational setting. I think Edubuntu Dapper+1 will have more university level apps as well
[06:24] <bddebian> persia: No worries :-)
[06:24] <havoc> LaserJock: I'm just curious
[06:24] <havoc> not going to actually run it
[06:24] <LaserJock> me too ;-)
[06:24] <havoc> so what's the actual dapper release date?
[06:25] <LaserJock> June 1st I think
[06:25] <havoc> chillywilly: catch that?
[06:25] <havoc> I've been checking out the sites and couldn't find mention of it anywhere
[06:25] <chillywilly> June?!?
[06:26] <LaserJock> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperReleaseSchedule
[06:26] <chillywilly> doesn't that break the 6 month release cycle?
[06:26] <LaserJock> yeah
[06:26] <chillywilly> bah...
[06:26] <LaserJock> it was pushed by 6 weeks
[06:26] <LaserJock> that was a while ago
[06:27] <chillywilly> might as well go with debian then ;) j/k!!!
[06:37] <chillywilly> hey everyone
[06:37] <chillywilly> Brokeback Mountain is now on DVD
[06:39] <LaserJock> hi Gloubiboulga
[06:39] <Gloubiboulga> hi LaserJock
[06:39] <elkbuntu> chillywilly, it does break the 6mth release, but dapper is going to have a 5yr support life rather than 18month support life. it needs to be really polished and uptodate
[06:41] <chillywilly> excuses.... ;) I need my 6 month ubuntu crack fix ;)
[06:43] <LaserJock> I do wish it wasn't needed, the solid 6 month release schedule seems to be a major selling point
[06:44] <LaserJock> I personally don't care
[06:46] <bddebian> chillywilly: Wow, thanks I'll rush out and buy that one.. ;-P
[06:47] <chillywilly> bddebian: you know you will :)
[06:47] <bddebian> he
[06:47] <bddebian> h
[06:48] <chillywilly> man I am struggling to keep my eyes open
[06:49] <bddebian> Yeah I gotta get to bed myself
[06:49] <chillywilly> yea the wife needs some lovin' ;)
[06:49] <chillywilly> GIT-R-DONE
[06:49] <bddebian> Heh, I wish.  Mine's been asleep for a few hours already :-)
[06:49] <chillywilly> mine too
[06:50] <chillywilly> they don't like to be woken with something stabbing them in the back now do they?
[06:50] <chillywilly> ok, I am just getting bad...
[06:50] <bddebian> hehe
[06:50] <bddebian> I was going to say worse but I already say too much in these channels :-)
[06:51] <chillywilly> haha
[06:52] <havoc> chillywilly is a "poker" ;)
[06:52] <chillywilly> hahahaha
[06:53] <havoc> yup, bedtime
[06:53] <chillywilly> peace
[06:56] <Hobbsee> heh
[06:56] <Hobbsee> that tends to work well!
[06:56] <Hobbsee> why not just sleep now?
[06:58] <ajmitch> heh
[06:58] <Unfrgiven> ajmitch: hey dude
[06:58] <ajmitch> hi Unfrgiven
[06:59] <Unfrgiven> ajmitch: how r u
[06:59] <ajmitch> good, how are you?
[06:59] <Unfrgiven> ajmitch: good good
[06:59] <ajmitch> been busy?
[07:00] <Unfrgiven> ajmitch: not as much lately. hence im trying to get back into motu work
[07:00] <ajmitch> ah right
[07:00] <Unfrgiven> ajmitch: been working with laserjock on the packaging guide
[07:00] <ajmitch> bddebian: firestarter uses gksu now?
[07:00] <ajmitch> Unfrgiven: great to hear :)
[07:01] <Unfrgiven> ajmitch: say you wouldnt happen to have any experience with building packages for kernel modules would you?
[07:01] <ajmitch> nope
[07:01] <ajmitch> never had the need
[07:03] <Unfrgiven> ajmitch: bummer. ive been working on building packages for the madwifi-ng drivers. for two reasons. 1. To learn more about advanced packaging and 2. the madwifi driver in linux-restricted-modules is broken. it has a huge memory leak and brings down your machine as soon as you start copying files.
[07:03] <ajmitch> hi Hobbsee
[07:03] <Unfrgiven> ajmitch: the madwifi-ng drivers resolve this. they're the next generation of madwifi drivers.
[07:03] <ajmitch> and the madwifi-ng drivers have several other problems, afaik
[07:03] <ajmitch> they were considered for dapper
[07:04] <bddebian> ajmitch: yes, shouldn't it?
[07:04] <Unfrgiven> ajmitch: ive got it to the stage where the modules are built and installable for 386. but im trying to find out a way to build packages for other platforms in one hit.
[07:04] <ajmitch> bddebian: "gksu is a frontend to su and gksudo is a frontend to sudo"
[07:04] <Unfrgiven> ajmitch: oh really? well they resolve the problems on my machine. so im just making packages for personal use (and for anyone else that wants to use them).
[07:04] <ajmitch> bddebian: so is gksu what you really wanted?
[07:04] <bddebian> ajmitch: There were two bugs filed requesting it..
[07:05] <bddebian> OK, I REALLY have to go to bed now
[07:05] <bddebian> ajmitch: If it's wrong, please let me know
[07:05] <bddebian> Gnight folks
[07:06] <ajmitch> night
[07:07] <chillywilly> ajmitch:!
[07:07] <ajmitch> yes?
[07:07] <chillywilly> hi
[07:07] <Unfrgiven> ajmitch: have u had any experience with build platform specific packages then?
[07:08] <chillywilly> don't act like you don't know me
[07:08] <ajmitch> Unfrgiven: not sure what you mean
[07:08] <chillywilly> we've been through too much to be acting like this
[07:08] <ajmitch> chillywilly: hello
[07:08] <chillywilly> hehe
[07:08] <Unfrgiven> ajmitch: what i mean is packages that are different for i386 vs amd64. different build-depends, etc.
[07:08] <chillywilly> ajmitch: just to warn you I've had little sleep and am feeling a bit loopy :)
[07:09] <chillywilly> lock up you wife and daughter, chillywilly is on the loose
[07:10] <ajmitch> Unfrgiven: right, that is possible, but I haven't needed to do it
[07:15] <Unfrgiven> ajmitch: sorry id like to bug you with another question :) some packages have *.in files that are used to generate other files. e.g. control.in might be used to generate control - do you know regenerate the target file once i make a change to a *.in file?
[07:15] <ajmitch> debian/rules does
[07:15] <ajmitch> well
[07:15] <ajmitch> it should only do it in targets not run at build time
[07:16] <chillywilly> you are the packaging God
[07:16] <chillywilly> all bow to ajmitch
[07:16] <ajmitch> chillywilly: your comments are not helping
[07:17] <chillywilly> nooooo
[07:17] <Unfrgiven> ajmitch: ok thanks. ill take a look!
[07:17] <robotgeek> can anyone tell me why freenx not in dapper?
[07:17] <chillywilly> is it FOSS?
[07:18] <LaserJock> I thought so, but perhaps not
[07:18] <womble> I think it was FOSS'd *very* recently, which would mean that it missed UVF
[07:18] <robotgeek> gpled, http://freenx.berlios.de/
[07:18] <robotgeek> i think the server was gpled since a long time, even before the freeze
[07:19] <robotgeek> Seveas has a few debs built, and i was able to build it on ppc too.
[07:21] <womble> Hmm, there's no dates for initial release.  robotgeek, I'd say the reason it's not in Dapper is because (a) it's not in Debian (and there's also no noise in WNPP), and (b) Nobody has packaged in specifically for Ubuntu.
[07:21] <Unfrgiven> robotgeek: I found Seveas's packages very buggy. not sure if it was a problem in freenx or the packaging itself. my problem was that I could never resume an existing session. on resume, the client would only display a black screen. if i killed the client my session would be killed too.
[07:21] <LaserJock> heh, I could never even connect, ever :(
[07:21] <robotgeek> Unfrgiven: apart from the session resume, everything works fine for me
[07:22] <Unfrgiven> robotgeek: well the session resume is quite a vital feature of freenx. perhaps not to you but to many potential users. we can't exactly ship something so broken.
[07:22] <robotgeek> Unfrgiven: true
[07:23] <LaserJock> vnc4 is uninstallable so...
[07:23] <Unfrgiven> robotgeek: is it perhaps just a case where seveas needs to update his/her repository with a newer (hopefully less buggy) codebase?
[07:24] <jmg> hey all
[07:24] <jmg> :)
[07:24] <robotgeek> Unfrgiven: i'll ping Seveas (this must do it)
[07:24] <Unfrgiven> Currently I'm using a tightvncserver which starts a session on startup. it does the job for me. yes its laggy but its better than nothing
[07:24] <jmg> anyone got a link to the .config used for linux-image?
[07:25] <Unfrgiven> jmg: check out /boot/config-<VERSION>
[07:25] <jmg> Unfrgiven: thanks
[07:25] <Unfrgiven> jmg: np
[07:25] <Unfrgiven> robotgeek: yeah good idea.
[07:26] <robotgeek> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDownUnder/BOFs/FasterNetworkedX Unfrgiven :)
[07:26] <robotgeek> wiki has everything :)
[07:28] <Unfrgiven> robotgeek: im not sure what im looking for here? although im intrigued by this so called Xdamage for vnc
[07:29] <robotgeek> Unfrgiven: if it did not make it in, it probably is because of poor code quality :)
[07:30] <Unfrgiven> robotgeek: that was for breezy. i think i actually attended that Bof too! i would think that things would've changed for the better by now. but i guess maybe not
[07:44] <whiprush> whoa
[07:44] <whiprush> hi Unfrgiven!!
[07:56] <Unfrgiven> whiprush: woah! hey! :)
[08:01] <whiprush> long time
[08:01] <whiprush> how are things?
[08:02] <Unfrgiven> yeah its been a while
[08:02] <Unfrgiven> things are good. how r u?
[08:02] <whiprush> good good.
[08:03] <Unfrgiven> im always reading ur blogs on planet ubuntu. its been a while since u had a "whats new in dapper post"
[08:03] <whiprush> yeah, i need to do that.
[08:03] <whiprush> my blog has been busted on planet lately though
[08:03] <Unfrgiven> yeah i noticed that too. i thought maybe u write xml for fun these days? ;)
[08:04] <whiprush> heh no, I need to ping jeff about it
[08:04] <whiprush> works on other planets but ubuntu
[08:04] <whiprush> *shrug*
[08:05] <Unfrgiven> whiprush: seems like dapper has more visibility atm than any previous ubuntu release!
[08:05] <whiprush> yeah, it's really shaping up.
[08:05] <whiprush> seems like the community continues to double in size.
[08:06] <Unfrgiven> gotta say cheers to matthew garrett for putting xgl + compiz into flight4.... that move alone has grown our userbase by tons
[08:06] <whiprush> yeah, there are seperate repos and stuff by community people too
[08:06] <whiprush> in fact, i just listened to the novell podcast.
[08:06] <whiprush> the guy was interviewing the XGL guy
[08:07] <Unfrgiven> david r?
[08:07] <whiprush> and one of his comments was "wow, the ubuntu guys really jumped onto this."
[08:07] <whiprush> yep
[08:07] <whiprush> google for "novell open audio"
[08:07] <whiprush> first link
[08:07] <whiprush> it's a good interview btw...
[08:08] <Unfrgiven> given the fact that there is so much interest for community repos atm, should we use this as a way to push the notion of bzr repos in launchpad?
[08:08] <Unfrgiven> its really a good oppurtunity to get some much needed visibility there
[08:09] <whiprush> it sounds nice
[08:09] <whiprush> but even on the forums, there are like 4 xgl repos.
[08:09] <whiprush> kinda messy
[08:10] <whiprush> wish they would have been working with something more motu friendly.
[08:14] <Unfrgiven> such as?
[08:14] <whiprush> well, there are a bunch of repos that are external.
[08:24] <Unfrgiven> whiprush: where can i find out more about these external repos? perhaps we can get some of these other repos to use ours?
[08:24] <whiprush> Unfrgiven: look in the sticky threads on the dapper forum on ubuntu forums...
[08:28] <Unfrgiven> whiprush: i thought u meant we offer external repos... what i was asking is how can we get them to make their packages more MOTU friendly? perhaps we can talk to em
[08:30] <whiprush> Unfrgiven: sec, chatting with family...
[08:30] <Unfrgiven> whiprush: np
[08:42] <Toadstool> heya MOTUs
[09:12] <carthik> a belated hi, Toadstool! from a non-motu who is half-awake.
[09:12] <Toadstool> hi carthik ;)
[09:12] <carthik> :)
[10:43] <Seveas> Unfrgiven, that is a problem with freenx itself
[10:43] <Seveas> Unfrgiven, it's supposedly solved in 0.5.0 betas but they only work on Dapper
[11:38] <phanatic> hi people
[11:40] <perli> hello! i've uploaded a revised package of gpodder to ubuntu's REVU - maybe someone has time to look into it? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2250
[11:49] <Hobbsee> siretart: ping?
[11:52] <phanatic> perli: i'm building it right now
[11:52] <armine> Hi everybody !
[11:52] <phanatic> hi armine
[11:53] <armine> fine ?
[11:56] <siretart> Hobbsee: pong
[11:56] <Hobbsee> siretart: i hear you're good on libraries - got time for a newbie packager's question?
[11:57] <Hobbsee> [19:46]  <Hobbsee> libmysqlclient15's been replaced by libmysqlclient15off, and some packages, including amarok, are still calling for libmysqlclient15
[11:57] <Hobbsee> [19:46]  <Hobbsee> in the shdepends, it seems
[11:57] <zakame> hi all
[11:58] <siretart> Hobbsee: err, what do you mean with 'calling'?
[11:58] <Hobbsee> needing it to be installed/depending on it
[11:58] <azeem> those need to be transitioned
[11:58] <siretart> Hobbsee: if they use the shlibs mechanism, the package just needs to be rebuilt. shlibs will calculate the proper binary package dependency for you
[11:59] <phanatic> hi zakame
[12:00] <Hobbsee> shlibs is mentioned in the control file - i'm not sure if thats' what you mean or not.  libmysqlclient15-dev is a build dep, and i'm presuming it's trying to install libmysqlclient15 as a shlibs depend.  trouble is, there's no libmysqlclient15off-dev to change it to, so it all works nicely
[12:00] <zakame> hello phanatic
[12:01] <Hobbsee> siretart: if you're meaning using dh_makeshlibs, it errors out with http://pastebin.com/647584
[12:06] <siretart> Hobbsee: dh_makeshlibs creates you an shlibs file. you need it only in packages which create shared libs
[12:07] <Hobbsee> ah...right...
[12:07] <siretart> Hobbsee: I think amarok does not state an explicit build dependency on libmysqlclient15, but has a field ${shlibs:Depends}
[12:07] <siretart> Hobbsee: in this case, a mere rebuild should 'fix' it
[12:08] <phanatic> perli: are you here?
[12:08] <siretart> if it does state an explicit dependency on libmysqlclient15, then I think that should be fixed
[12:08] <Hobbsee> siretart: it has a build dep on libmysqlclient15-dev - according to the control file
[12:08] <Hobbsee> siretart: should be fixed - yes, but how?  :P
[12:08] <Hobbsee> this is where my problem is!
[12:10] <siretart> Hobbsee: err, are you sure the build-dep has changed? I understand that only the binary dependency needs to be fixed, because mysql-dfsg-5.0 no longer provides libmysqlclient15, butlibmysqlclient15off
[12:11] <Riddell> Hobbsee: libmysqlclient15-dev hasn't changed
[12:11] <Riddell> Hobbsee: so the package just needs rebuilding and it'll magically pick up the new library
[12:12] <Hobbsee> right....
[12:12] <perli> phanatic: yes
[12:12] <Hobbsee> yeah, ok, that makes sense enough
[12:12] <Hobbsee> sorry for bothering you
[12:13] <phanatic> perli: i'm not a motu, but i had a look at your package. may i /msg you with my comments?
[12:13] <perli> phanatic: yes, that'd be nice
[12:14] <Riddell> Hobbsee: libmysql had a binary incompatible name (mysql changed the name of a variable in it) so the library has to be given a new version "number" and everything that links to it has to be rebuilt
[12:15] <Hobbsee> Riddell: ah ok, yep
[12:16] <Riddell> Hobbsee: but the developer package needed for compiling is the same since its still the same library
[12:17] <Riddell> there's a new version of amarok out soon so I'll make sure that gets built against the new libmysql
[12:17] <Hobbsee> Riddell: oh ok, cool - the 1.4 beta3 or something?
[12:17] <Hobbsee> or the 1.3.9*
[12:18] <Riddell> yes, beta 3
[12:18] <Riddell> 1.3.9 should already be rebuilt in ubuntu's dapper archive
[12:20] <Hobbsee> Riddell: okay, and the beta2 in your repo - just wait for beta3?
[12:21] <Riddell> Hobbsee: yes
[12:36] <siretart> lets see if submitting bugs via email interface with many attachments works
[12:56] <Unfrgiven> Seveas: ping
[01:12] <Seveas> Unfrgiven, pong
[01:12] <tseng> hi Unfrgiven
[01:42] <Unfrgiven> tseng: hey dude
[01:43] <Unfrgiven> Seveas: 0.5.0 sounds good. when are they expecting to final?
[01:44] <Seveas> no ide
[01:44] <Seveas> a
[01:44] <Unfrgiven> Seveas: if they can resolve the session resuming issue, freenx would be a better alternative to vnc for me and hopefully many others
[01:45] <Seveas> vnc does sharing, freenx not
[01:46] <Unfrgiven> Seveas: i see. but with session resuming freenx should be at least close to MS remote desktop (MSRD). MSRD doesnt support sharing either
[01:46] <Seveas> It's better 
[01:46] <Seveas> you can even use NX to accellerate RDP
[01:47] <Seveas> (only with commercial NX though)
[01:47] <Unfrgiven> Seveas: thats neat! but what advantages does that really offer? RDP is already quite responsive
[01:47] <Seveas> true, but NX stays responsive oveer a modem link, RDP not
[01:51] <Unfrgiven> Seveas: cool!
[01:55] <verwilst> nx is heaven :
[01:55] <verwilst> :)
[01:56] <slomo_> pygi: pong
[01:56] <pygi> slomo_: any advancement? :)
[01:57] <slomo_> pygi: not yet... meebey told me that he will have the package ready tomorrow and some minutes later you all get a link to the package for testing ;)
[01:58] <pygi> Anyway, 0.10 has some serious problems
[01:59] <slomo_> tell me about them
[01:59] <slomo_> hm, best would be a mail with explainations of the problems and patches :) i have to leave in some minutes
[01:59] <pygi> will do :)
[01:59] <slomo_> are there critical problems and patches? ;)
[01:59] <pygi> slomo_: btw. no patches exist yet :-D
[02:00] <pygi> no, no critical problems
[02:00] <slomo_> that's not good ;)
[02:00] <pygi> It's just I am perfectionist, and that's not so good sometimes :-D
[02:00] <slomo_> hehe
[02:00] <slomo_> regressions from 0.8?
[02:00] <Unfrgiven> i take it you guys referring to monodevelop?
[02:00] <slomo_> yes
[02:00] <Unfrgiven> or gstreamer?
[02:00] <slomo_> MD
[02:01] <Unfrgiven> im hanging out for MD 0.10 packages... mmm stetic!
[02:01] <slomo_> oh another one... :) can you give me your mail address so i can tell you when there's something to test? :)
[02:02] <pygi> slomo_: nah, not really a regression ... new features integrated are not tested enough
[02:02] <pygi> I have a feeling it was rushed out too soon
[02:02] <pygi> especially Stetic, but other parts as well
[02:02] <slomo_> ok, hm... i have to try it later or tomorrow :)
[02:03] <pygi> slomo_: we'll see... if it's something simple to fix, no harm in writing a patch or two :)
[02:03] <slomo_> did you tell upstream about it already?
[02:03] <pygi> well, the upstream knows it :)
[02:04] <pygi> no worries, it'll get fixed sometime :-D
[02:04] <perli> new package uploaded to REVU: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2251 - maybe a MOTU wants to have a look at it?
[02:04] <pygi> you can read up some of things here
[02:04] <pygi> http://pixane.net/blog/?p=47
[02:05] <slomo_> pygi: oh i read that already :) the nunit problem is btw not a problem ;)
[02:05] <pygi> slomo_: yes, I am aware of that :-P
[02:06] <slomo_> it's just that we don't use the nunit that is shipped with mono but the real thing
[02:06] <slomo_> ok :)
[02:06] <pygi> slomo_: I am already running new MD, but I want a package anyway :)
[02:07] <pygi> Altought I guess I'll still be coding GUI, instead of using Stetic for a while
[02:07] <pygi> Habit :)
[02:07] <slomo_> :)
[02:07] <slomo_> i used glade for some windows in the past ;)
[02:08] <pygi> I use glade just for Gnome apps which need GUI
[02:08] <pygi> it was there for a long time, and I am kinda used to it
[02:08] <pygi> altought I am not a gui expert :)
[02:08] <pygi> I am not even gui beginner :)
[02:09] <pygi> easier for me to make designer make gui, and I call it with libglade
[02:09] <pygi> less work for me =P
[02:09] <slomo_> hehe :)
[02:10] <pygi> slomo_: well, I already have enough job as is...no need to complicate things :)
[02:11] <slomo_> anyway... bbl :)
[02:11] <pygi> :)
[02:11] <pygi> enjoy :-P
[02:19] <Unfrgiven> slomo_: yeah for sure. ankur.kotwal@gmail.com
[02:23] <Unfrgiven> any word when MD is going to enable the debugger by default?
[03:35] <phanatic> hi Gloubiboulga
[03:35] <Gloubiboulga> hey phanatic
[04:14] <nomed> hi all
[04:14] <nomed> one question ...
[04:15] <nomed> is it still possible to add new pkges in universe ?
[04:15] <phanatic> nomed: i think not (only if that package is very important/useful)
[04:16] <nomed> well those pkges are pinot and xapian ...
[04:16] <nomed> pinot is a beagle like stuff that doesn't depends on mono ..
[04:17] <nomed> xapian is an engine suitable for desktop search all in c++
[04:17] <nomed> i found the really useful
[04:17] <nomed> but that's a point of view :)
[04:17] <phanatic> i don't think they'll be included :/
[04:22] <nomed> phanatic, k thanks
[04:36] <Gloubiboulga> phanatic, are you sure about this?
[04:36] <Gloubiboulga> Mithrandir told me last week (or maybe the week before) that it's still possible to add new apps
[04:39] <phanatic> Gloubiboulga: i heard from a MOTU (siretart i think), that no new packages can be uploaded (of course there are exceptions ;))
[04:40] <Gloubiboulga> if siretart said so...
[04:44] <siretart> nomed: Gloubiboulga: we are after feature freeze, so the current policy rejects new packages. but we grant exceptions to that policy if you can give convincing reasons for the exception
[04:45] <nomed> siretart, yep i know that's why i had those pkges waitin there .. i had them mainly for dapper +1
[04:45] <nomed> the only convincing reason i can give is that xubuntu lacks of a desktop search app ..
[04:45] <nomed> pinot would be perfect ..
[04:46] <nomed> it's based on a stable and well tested engine called xapian
[04:46] <phanatic> nomed: i think that'd be a reason, since xubuntu is getting more powerful ;)
[04:46] <nomed> but i have absolutely np if it'll not be possible to have it in universe
[04:47] <siretart> nomed: I think if janimo would say that he needed that app for xubuntu, I'm sure that exception would be granted
[04:47] <siretart> nomed: I've seem quite some exception like that for kubuntu, so why not for xubuntu as well
[04:48] <nomed> siretart, thanks .. i'll contact janimo
[04:52] <Kyral> Morning guys
[04:52] <Hobbsee> hey Kyral
[04:52] <Kyral> allow me to append that with "and gals"
[04:52] <Hobbsee> mmm...that too
[04:57] <luks> Hi. I've uploaded a pacage to REVU, but I see that python-musicbrainz2_0.3.1-0ubuntu1_source.changes was rejected - ftp://revu.tauware.de/incoming/rejected
[04:57] <luks> did I something wrong?
[05:00] <siretart> luks: I'll look
[05:00] <luks> thanks
[05:01] <zul> so if i made a change to a bug-fix to a universe package would i upload to revu?
[05:01] <siretart> luks: you wasn't added to the revu keyring. I added you to the keyring and reprocessed your package
[05:02] <siretart> zul: revu is a platfor for showing your package to others, so maybe someone who has upload priviledges can easily review your package and eventually sponsor you
[05:02] <luks> siretart: ah, thanks!
[05:03] <zul> siretart: im pretty sure i have access to universe since im a motu already i just never uploaded anything
[05:04] <phanatic> hey LaserJock
[05:04] <LaserJock> hi phanatic
[05:05] <Kyral> hey LJ
[05:05] <LaserJock> hi Kyral
[05:06] <Kyral> Checkout the Ubuntu-Users ML in a few
[05:07] <LaserJock> do I have to? ;-)
[05:07] <Kyral> meh :P
[05:07] <Kyral> You aren
[05:07] <Kyral> 't subscribed?
[05:07] <LaserJock> heck no
[05:07] <Kyral> damn the ' key being near the Enter key
[05:07] <Kyral> I am lol
[05:08] <Kyral> this is what my GMail Account is for :D
[05:08] <LaserJock> I get enough crap as it is
[05:08] <LaserJock> I got GMail now too
[05:09] <Kyral> my GMail Account is my "Mailing List" account :D
[05:09] <siretart> zul: so if you spot some bug in universe, just go on and fix it. if you want to sponsor ppl, who want to become motus, revu is the place for them to present their work
[05:09] <zul> siretart: ok cool..
[05:14] <phanatic> hi raphink
[05:14] <raphink> hi phanatic
[05:15] <Kyral> Hey raphink
[05:15] <raphink> hi Kyral
[05:15] <Kyral> Nice little comment about KQemu on KDE-Apps
[05:16] <Kyral> You should mention that it should be renamed because most Distros already have packages named "KQemu" that are for the Kernel Module...
[05:18] <raphink> mhm
[05:19] <raphink> brb
[06:03] <Kyral> lol at Jeff Waugh
[06:03] <Kyral> 's latest blog
[06:03] <Kyral> Damn the placement of the ' key!
[06:05] <siretart> FYI, I just created https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SbuildLVMHowto. Commments welcome. works like a charm for me
[06:07] <Kyral> someone in #uf wants to know if the new NVidia drivers will get in past the UVF
[06:09] <siretart> #uf?
[06:09] <Kyral> #ubuntuforums
[06:09] <Kyral> sorry I was lazy :P
[06:11] <siretart> Kyral: tell them that if it turns out that they fix bugs (preferably documented in malone), there are good chances that a report requesting this will result in a granted exception to uvf
[06:11] <Kyral> I can tell you one bugfix right now. Incompatibilities with the recent Kernels :D
[06:12] <Kyral> As in my system randomly freezing for no good reason (I know it was the Driver because when I reverted to NV all was well :P)
[06:15] <Kyral> http://www.nvidia.com/object/linux_display_ia32_1.0-8756.html <-- Changelog
[06:16] <siretart> Kyral: the current driver in dapper works fine with the current nvidia drivers. we cannot support random kernel/driver combinations
[06:16] <Kyral> oy....
[06:16] <Kyral> I should have filed a bug...
[06:17] <Kyral> plus yanno enough people will be complaining for them....*shrug*
[06:18] <zakame> hi MOTUs
[06:19] <raphink> hi zakame
[06:20] <zakame> hello raphink
[06:37] <Yagisan> G'day all
[06:37] <zakame> hi Yagisan
[06:37] <Yagisan> so zakame, what's up ?
[06:38] <zakame> trying to fix malone 38619
[06:38] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 38619 in balsa "FTBFS: using deprecated GNOME_PARAM_POPT_TABLE" [Normal,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/38619
[06:41] <Yagisan> ah. I'm discovering the joys of running pbuilder on a large tmpfs. Much quicker then using my raid0 array
[06:43] <zakame> rocking!
[06:50] <Yagisan> any recommendations for managing a local repo (excluding dak ;) ) ? I used apt-ftparchive on breezy, but I can't find it on dapper.
[06:54] <LaserJock> Yagisan: it isn't in Dapper?
[06:54] <uniq> yagisan: it should be in the apt-utils package.
[06:54] <Yagisan> ahh, that probally explains why I didn't find it
[07:19] <LaserJock> hi raphink and bddebian
[07:19] <bddebian> Heya gang
[07:19] <bddebian> Hi LaserJock
[07:19] <raphink> hi LaserJock <><
[07:22] <cbx33> afternoon all
[07:22] <bddebian> Hello cbx33
[07:22] <cbx33> hi bddebian
[07:23] <LaserJock> hi cbx33
[07:26] <cbx33> hi LaserJock
[07:26] <cbx33> been up to much>] 
[07:26] <cbx33> ?
[07:28] <LaserJock> arghh, we we had a little mishap with kubuntu-docs and I'm trying to fix all the bugs in the packaging guide
[07:29] <cbx33> heheh
[07:29] <cbx33> did you get my last ones about chroot
[07:29] <cbx33> yes i think you did :p
[07:29] <LaserJock> yeah, I think so
[07:30] <LaserJock> I need to collate and fix as much as I can
[07:30] <cbx33> well if you want me to give it a final review tomorrow I'd be happy too
[07:30] <cbx33> had much responce from the mailing list?
[07:30] <LaserJock> but I wasn't sure until just a few minutes ago what the proper procedure was now that we have a doc freeze
[07:30] <LaserJock> yeah, a far amount
[07:30] <LaserJock> I'm happy so far
[07:31] <cbx33> good good
[07:31] <LaserJock> means more work of course
[07:31] <cbx33> well I think it's an ace tutorial
[07:31] <LaserJock> but I'd rather be busy and have a good doc
[07:31] <cbx33> what more you gotta do?
[07:32] <LaserJock> just fixing, mostly in the Pbuilder how to
[07:33] <cbx33> ahh
[07:33] <cbx33> well the offers there if you want it :p
[07:33] <cbx33> bbl
[07:43] <siretart> LaserJock: you include a pbuilder howto in your dev docu?
[07:44] <LaserJock> yessir
[07:44] <LaserJock> http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/gs-pbuilder.html
[07:44] <siretart> LaserJock: I've written today this: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SbuildLVMHowto
[07:45] <siretart> as alternative to pbuilder. I now officially love sbuild :)
[07:46] <LaserJock> it isn't specific to LVMs though, right?
[07:49] <LaserJock> siretart: does sbuild/schroot give you a clean chroot like pbuilder?
[07:49] <siretart> LaserJock: no, you can run schroot on pure chroots, file (tarballs like pbuilder), or raw block devices as well
[07:50] <siretart> you get best performance on lvm snapshots however, because you don't need to extract a tarball, and don't need to purge the installed build deps
[07:50] <LaserJock> hmm, definately something to think about for Dapper+1
[07:50] <LaserJock> I'll have to try it out
[07:51] <Yagisan> perhaps a note that setting the build dir to tmpfs helps with pbuilder, for those that can't setup sbuilde and lvm
[08:09] <MrFaber> hi all
[08:10] <MrFaber> Who manages the wpasupplicant package?
[08:14] <LaserJock> MrFaber: siretart might be one to talk to
[08:15] <MrFaber> LaserJock: thanks
[08:15] <MrFaber> siretart: hi, you there?
[08:17] <siretart> MrFaber: yes, I'm here
[08:18] <MrFaber> siretart: thanks
[08:18] <MrFaber> siretart: wpasupplicant works fine but I have no clue how to start since latest updates. There ist no init.d and so on. Is there any current wiki or howto?
[08:18] <MrFaber> It should work with if-preup.d but I don't know how
[08:19] <MrFaber> Where can I read something how to use it and I don't know if this is ubuntu specific
[08:19] <siretart> MrFaber: sure. look in /usr/share/doc/wpasupplicant/README.{Debian,modes}
[08:19] <MrFaber> thx
[08:19] <siretart> MrFaber: debian does it the same way. We try to not diverge it
[08:20] <MrFaber> siretart: ok, but then it is debian specific?
[08:20] <siretart> short story: the idea with the init script was braindead and broke in many situations. you now configure wpa in /etc/network/interfaces
[08:20] <MrFaber> siretart: great, since I remove the wpa from rcs and started it in interfaces
[08:21] <siretart> MrFaber: somewhat. we integrated wpasupplicant into ifupdown, which is a debian/ubuntu specific thing
[08:22] <siretart> MrFaber: in future, if you have problems with a package upgrade, I suggest looking into /usr/share/doc/$package/changelog.Debian.gz. There you find the email addresses of the ppl who touched the package, along with information what they changed
[08:22] <MrFaber> ok, thanks
[08:26] <Yagisan> finally, my auto pbuilder + local repo is set up.
[08:28] <MrFaber> siretart: sorry, just one last question, should I create  /etc/default/wpasupplicant since there is no one anymore and it is mentioned in README.Debian
[08:29] <siretart> it is? oh, need to remove it from there then
[08:29] <siretart> MrFaber: no, there is nothing which would read /etc/default/wpasupplicant
[08:29] <siretart> MrFaber: all information has to be given in /etc/network/interfaces
[08:31] <cbx33> phew |I'm back
[08:32] <MrFaber> siretart: ok, thx
[08:32] <cbx33> ok, I'm running breezy
[08:32] <cbx33> but i want a dapper debootstrap environment
[08:32] <siretart> MrFaber: you're right, near the bottom, there is an old entry still referencing that
[08:32] <cbx33> the dapper debootstrap script is only in the latest debootstrap
[08:33] <cbx33> can i install the dapper debootstrap on breezy? if so how?
[08:33] <siretart> cbx33: download and install it with dpkg -i
[08:33] <cbx33> kk
[08:35] <cbx33> which package do i want
[08:35] <cbx33> what are hte udeb pacakges?
[08:35] <cbx33> debootstrap-udeb_0.3.3.0ubuntu2_i386.udeb
[08:35] <cbx33> or
[08:35] <cbx33> debootstrap_0.3.3.0ubuntu2_all.deb
[08:36] <LaserJock_away> not the udeb one
[08:36] <cbx33> ok
[08:36] <siretart> cbx33: udeb packages are used by the installer only
[08:36] <cbx33> ah i see
[08:49] <cbx33> LaserJock_away, you got a sec?
[08:49] <LaserJock_away> yes, quickly (I'm waiting for my wife before we go to lunch)
[08:50] <cbx33> ok i have a bug i know how to fix
[08:50] <cbx33> :D
[08:50] <LaserJock_away> cool
[08:50] <cbx33> i have downloaded the source
[08:50] <cbx33> do i modify it
[08:50] <cbx33> repackage it back up
[08:50] <cbx33> then do a debdiff?|
[08:50] <LaserJock_away> pretty much
[08:50] <cbx33> but i don;t modify the orignal source|
[08:51] <cbx33> ?
[08:51] <LaserJock_away> no
[08:51] <cbx33> or i do and the deb diff takes care of that|
[08:51] <LaserJock_away> well, it depends
[08:51] <cbx33> wouldi create a patch then and shove it in debian/ to be appied|
[08:51] <cbx33> sorry this keyboard layout is funky, the ? is not i nthe normal place!!
[08:51] <LaserJock_away> if the package uses a patch system like dpatch or  something, then you want to make a new patch in debian/patches/
[08:52] <cbx33> else modify the source
[08:52] <cbx33> i see
[08:52] <cbx33> nope there is no patches file
[08:52] <LaserJock_away> but if it doesn't use a patch system you modify stuff and then when you rebuild the package the changes go into the .diff.gz file
[08:52] <cbx33> or directory
[08:53] <cbx33> ok
[08:53] <cbx33> will so
[08:53] <cbx33> do
[08:53] <LaserJock_away> just use zless and/or zgrep to make sure you did what you think you did and no more or less
[08:53] <Yagisan> can build-depends span multiple lines ? lintian is giving me an error on one I broke up to make it easier to read.
[08:53] <LaserJock_away> on the .diff.gz that is
[08:53] <cbx33> ok
[08:54] <LaserJock_away> Yagisan: I don't think so. I think it needs to be all on one line
[08:55] <cbx33> hmmm
[08:58] <Yagisan> LaserJock_away: thanks
[09:26] <uniq> how do i request sync of a package from debian? (dssi-*)
[09:33] <bddebian> uniq: Ask elmo or Kamion or so
[09:35] <uniq> that wouldn't be necessary to sync a pacakge to universe, would it?
[09:35] <uniq> they are working on main afaik.
[09:35] <bddebian> Yes unless something has changed that I don't know about
[09:36] <uniq> ok. thanks.
[10:10] <crimsun> slomo_: yay, gnome #332390 resolved :)
[10:10] <Ubugtu> Gnome bug 332390 in gstreamer (core) "[GstQueue/GstPad]  queue pauses immediately when linked, playing musepack songs works only every second try" [Major,Resolved: fixed]  http://bugs.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=332390
[10:10] <bddebian> Go crimsun go :-)
[10:11] <crimsun> oh I didn't fix it, but I'm happy to reap its benefits :)
[10:11] <crimsun> 'afternoon, bddebian
[10:11] <bddebian> Heya crimsun :-)
[11:11] <LaserJock> uniq: still here?
[11:13] <LaserJock> bddebian: new sync procedure is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources#syncs
[11:31] <wasabi__> There a better way than popen ing gksudo to run a program as root from python?
[11:31] <wasabi__> Looks like when I do so with popen, it never returns.
[11:31] <wasabi__> when the program exits.
[11:36] <nictuku> what do you need popen for?
[11:37] <wasabi__> gksudo.
[11:38] <wasabi__> And so I can wait for it to exit, and pass discrete arguments.
[11:40] <nictuku> in that case I wouldn't know. Talk to kov when he's online
[11:45] <nictuku> python-support should be in main :-(
[11:45] <nictuku> well, when it is widely used it should be a must
[11:45] <LaserJock> I suppose there has to be room for OO.org ;-)