[12:02] <mdz> infinity: depends on what the changes are
[12:49] <floam> anyone packaged a new restricted-modules .deb with the new NVIDIA module? I doubt it's going to be in dapper, but I'm guessing someone wanted to try it
[12:54] <jdong> floam: mjg59 stated at the forums that Dapper does intend to have this new NVidia module
[12:54] <jdong> (I don't know how accurate that is)
[12:54] <jdong> currently, I've failed to manually install the module from NVidia installers on two Dapper boxes
[12:54] <jdong> so I'm waiting and saving my time :)
[12:54] <crimsun> well if matthew says so, I'd say it's pretty darned certain it will be.
[12:55] <floam> jdong: wow, that surprises me
[12:55] <floam> being so late in the game and all
[12:55] <jdong> floam, it surprised me as well
[12:55] <floam> although that would probably be a good thing for dapper in the long run, since it's supposed to be supported for a long time and the new version adds support for some newer hardware
[12:56] <jdong> floam: http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=899834&postcount=7
[12:56] <floam> and I thought nothing useful was ever stated on the fourms.
[12:57] <jdong> floam: umm, what would make you think that?
[12:58] <floam> jdong: just my last few years experience with the internet. webforums for Linux distributions tend to be places where cluebies spread false information and diseases
[12:58] <floam> they are usually devoid of anyone important
[12:59] <jdong> I see....
[12:59] <jdong> there are developers who regularly are on the forums
[12:59] <jdong> while it's true that any online community you're going to get some level of false information....
[12:59] <floam> the signal-to-noise ratio is usally much worse for web forums than for the proper mailing lists
[01:00] <jdong> I wouldn't say so... our forums just have monstrous proportions of traffic compared to the lists
[01:01] <jdong> but we do acknowledge that problem... it's getting better though
[01:03] <floam> I'm not speaking specifically about the ubuntu forums
[01:33] <desrt> is it possible to remove a remote bug watch on launchpad?
[01:36] <bluefoxicy> crimsun:  Lovely, upon gdm starting the kernel hard-freezes and magicsysrq won't shut the machine off :p
[01:36] <bluefoxicy> irqpoll nah.
[01:49] <nictuku> nwu project calling for initial version testing: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-server/2006-April/000129.html 
[01:55] <Le_Vert> Hi
[01:55] <Le_Vert> How could I submit a new packages for Ubuntu ?
[01:55] <Le_Vert> I have some packages that'll be sent to debian and I would send them to ubuntu too
[01:56] <crimsun> Le_Vert: see #ubuntu-motu; https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/New
[01:56] <LaserJock> Le_Vert: check out wiki.ubuntu.com/REVU and #ubuntu-motu
[01:56] <Le_Vert> thanks :)
[02:07] <Seveas> Le_Vert, there's no real need to send them to Ubuntu separately, Ubuntu will get them through debian
[02:08] <Le_Vert> ok :)
[03:22] <desrt> someone did something really really awful to my tab key.
[03:23] <aimaz> did they make tab complete have spelling mistakes?
[03:24] <desrt> they made it totally fail to work properly
[03:24] <desrt> erasing /etc/bash_complete seems to fix the problem
[03:24] <desrt> bash_completion even
[03:39] <infinity> mdz: http://cerberus.0c3.net/~adconrad/re2c.changelog
[04:28] <wasabi__> Writing a utility with pygtk... need to run part of it as root. Seperated it into a seperate program, want to run it with gksu. Some reason gksu won't exit properly when run with popen.
[04:28] <wasabi__> Or is there a better way... making an Ubuntu utility. ;)
[04:33] <jmg> is there a way to make make-kpkg not rebuild the tree before building the .debs?
[08:34] <zakame> hello fabbione :)
[08:34] <fabbione> hi zakame 
[08:40] <neuralis> fabbione: what do you think about a lynx/links udeb for the server install cd?
[08:40] <fabbione> neuralis: for what use case?
[08:41] <neuralis> fabbione: there's a guy providing one (not very convincing) use case on the ML, but it does actually seem at least as useful as the openssh-client udeb
[08:43] <neuralis> i haven't made up my mind about whether i'd support it yet. what do you think?
[08:43] <fabbione> i am thinking...
[08:43] <fabbione> it's like Sunday 9 am :)
[08:43] <neuralis> 2:43AM here :)
[08:43] <fabbione> yeah i know
[08:44] <fabbione> well there is wget already
[08:44] <fabbione> i can see the point of the login script
[08:44] <fabbione> the testing part is junk
[08:45] <neuralis> agreed. though it might be convenient to take a look at some instructions online that one didn't print, etc
[08:45] <fabbione> the only counter side for him not being able to login to his ISP is that apt-get source.lists lines for security are not enabled by default
[08:46] <fabbione> no no, let's keep the use case simple
[08:46] <fabbione> if he is installing a server he has at lease one client
[08:46] <fabbione> that he can use to browse
[08:46] <fabbione> otherwise it really makes no sense to install a server
[08:46] <neuralis> that's not (always) true. think server rooms.
[08:47] <neuralis> then again, if he's installing a server in a server room, he shouldn't be browsing online for instructions, usually :)
[08:47] <fabbione> exactly
[08:48] <neuralis> okay, i think i'm convinced we don't need it.
[08:48] <fabbione> i think so too
[08:49] <fabbione> it's too much of a corner case
[08:49] <neuralis> agreed; i'm writing a reply to the guy.
[08:49] <fabbione> and once he reboots, he can login and enable security updates
[08:49] <neuralis> another quick thing -- i wrote in the server chapter that we have ocfs2-tools in dapper. is that no longer the case?
[08:49] <neuralis> or do we just have the breezy version?
[08:50] <fabbione> yes we do have ocfs2-tools and ocfs2console in main
[08:50] <fabbione> we have new versions in dapper
[08:50] <neuralis> ah. i thought i saw you say something else in one of the dev meetings, but i probably misremembered. thanks.
[08:50] <fabbione> we were waiting for a new major uptream version
[08:51] <fabbione> that didt really happen
[08:51] <fabbione> so we will stay with what we already have in Dapper
[08:51] <fabbione> nothing too fancy
[08:51] <fabbione> we do have 1.1.5 or so
[08:51] <fabbione> there 1.2 out
[08:51] <fabbione> but also tons of bug fixes for 1.2 in svn
[08:51] <fabbione> and i was waiting for 1.2.1 that's not happening yet
[08:51] <neuralis> sounds like it's best sticking with 1.1.5.\
[08:52] <fabbione> yeah
[08:52] <fabbione> it's ok for what we need
[08:53] <neuralis> fabbione: so i just reread the guy's away message, and i don't think he was actually asking about an udeb, but about shipping the package on the cd
[08:53] <neuralis> because if we don't, he can't reboot and log in, because logging in requires a browser which he can't install.
[08:54] <fabbione> hmmm right
[08:54] <fabbione> yes that can be done
[08:55] <neuralis> should be pretty trivial. can you poke colin to include it, or do you want me to mail him?
[08:55] <fabbione> i can do it directly...
[08:55] <fabbione> just send me a reminder
[08:55] <neuralis> sure.
[08:55] <fabbione> i own the server seeds
[08:55] <neuralis> ah, even better
[08:55] <fabbione> that hounestly.. i should really clean up a lot soon
[08:55] <neuralis> i'll send you a reminder sometime tomorrow, then.
[08:55] <fabbione> sure..
[09:41] <jmg> hmm..
[09:45] <jmg> bizarro
[09:47] <fabbione> neuralis: still around?
[09:47] <neuralis> fabbione: what's up?
[10:28] <sivang> elmo: thank you :)
[10:30] <sivang> morning all
[11:32] <MagnusR> Hi! If I find a translation error in synaptic, how do I do to correct it?
[11:33] <Lathiat> At a guess, it would be available by rosetta on http://launchpad.net ?
[11:35] <MagnusR> I have looked around there a bit. but i did not quit understand how o do.
[11:50] <Kinnison> Morning
[11:54] <ajmitch> morning Kinnison 
[11:55] <Kinnison> hihi
[12:13] <sivang> hey Kinnison 
[02:00] <sivang> howdy bddebian 
[02:00] <bddebian> Heya sivang
[02:23] <engla> I'm not a dev, I just reported some bugs in ubuntu. Is it the right thing to do to go back and close those bugs if I think they are fixed/resolved/invalid?
[02:24] <sivang> engla: you can try and ask other people who have reported the same and are subscribed to the bug if it works for them.
[02:24] <sivang> engla: if so, then I reckon it would be okay.
[02:25] <mdke> engla, yeah, close em if you don't see them anymore and you were the original reporter
[02:26] <sivang> that as well :)
[02:56] <_ion> Astronomers have discovered that Uranus has a blue ring.
[02:56] <darklinux> hi
[02:59] <darklinux> i want to build a new kernel 2.6.17 of the dpkg base of dapper kernel 2.6.15 i have change the control and changelog file to 2.6.17 and the dir name when in want to build the package they remove the debian folder not more
[02:59] <_ion> ARGH, my eyes
[03:01] <darklinux> can help anybody
[03:02] <infinity> darklinux: apt-get install kernel-package && man make-kpkg
[03:03] <infinity> darklinux: And please ask these questions in #ubuntu, not #ubuntu-devel, this is not a support channel.
[03:03] <bddebian> infinity!!
[03:03] <bddebian> Is it Monday for you yet? :-)
[03:03] <_ion> su160317 Ignoring ALL from darklinux
[03:03] <infinity> Nope!
[03:03] <infinity> 23:03 on Sunday night.
[03:03] <bddebian> Damn :-)
[03:04] <jsgotangco> heh
[03:04] <jsgotangco> not yet work time
[03:18] <jsgotangco> im gonna go play oblivion
[03:19] <bddebian> Heh, I can't play Morrowind today, we have "company" :-(
[03:21] <sivang> bddebian: comapny?
[03:23] <bddebian> sivang: US word for guests :-)
[03:24] <sivang> bddebian: :) But why does it stop you from playing?
[03:24] <infinity> bddebian: So, instead, you sit on IRC and ignore them? :)
[03:25] <infinity> congeniality++
[03:26] <bddebian> sivang: They don't, the wife does :-)
[03:26] <bddebian> infinity: Well at least I'm in the same room and not screaming "DIE, DIE, DIE" :-)
[03:28] <sivang> bddebian: ehehe
[03:28] <sivang> infinity: go the thinkpad , I chicken out and got the one with FireGL V3200 ;-)
[03:28] <sivang> *got
[03:29] <sivang> infinity: minus one flight 6 bug that didn't configure gdm to start, the ati FOSS driver seems to be working well so far.
[03:29] <jdub> mdz: given the slip, what do you think about getting the shut-up-grub patch in?
[03:30] <bddebian> shut-up-grub.. Heh
[03:31] <infinity> jdub: How shut up is it?
[03:31] <infinity> jdub: Do you even remove "hit Esc for a menu"?
[03:36] <jdub> infinity: no, just the post-menu spew from memory
[03:36] <jdub> infinity: and i think it only hid that if you had 'quiet' on the boot line
[03:37] <infinity> The stageX, stageY stuff?
[03:37] <jdub> infinity: the patch is in launchpad somewhere
[03:37] <jdub> yeah
[03:38] <fabbione> jdub: it's not wise to shut things up too much
[03:39] <fabbione> specially in very sensible parts of the boot like grub where debugging is already quite difficult
[03:39] <infinity> Shutting them up is fine if they can be "un-shut".
[03:39] <fabbione> at least we get to know "it hangs between stage1 and stage2" or stuff like that
[03:39] <infinity> (ie: Hold down key X during boot, so you get proper debug spew)
[03:39] <infinity> Or whatever.
[03:39] <fabbione> infinity: right.. but the 512bytes loader doesn't really have that much cleverness
[03:40] <infinity> That's a single branch.  I'm sure there are a few bytes to spare.
[03:40] <infinity> And it already knows how to listen for keys, IIRC.
[03:40] <fabbione> it's slightly more than that but yes...
[03:40] <fabbione> it understands concept of harddisks and how to read ext2 :)
[03:43] <jdub> the 'quiet' on the command line could be a nice way of doing it
[03:43] <jdub> if grub should be allowed to interpret those for itself
[03:44] <fabbione> erk
[03:44] <fabbione> that smells so much as a cmdline args clash
[03:44] <jdub> yeah
[03:45] <jdub> fabbione: have you tried building one of our 2.6.15 kernels with xen love, or know anyone on the server team doing it?
[03:45] <fabbione> jdub: nobody afaik
[03:45] <fabbione> and it's kind of late to do it
[03:45] <infinity> Haven't even tried.
[03:46] <jdub> fabbione: oh yeah, i mean independently of dapper
[03:46] <fabbione> jdub: no idea.. i don't use xen and i am not going to, till it's upstream
[03:46] <fabbione> since a bunch of kernel devel don't like at all how it's written
[03:46] <infinity> It can probably be done with enough wrangling and provided as a community supported thing, but I doubt any of us have enough hours in the day to try right now.
[03:47] <fabbione> from a first review they found serious design flaws
[03:47] <jdub> it's funny how much gar i hear about xen internals :)
[03:47] <fabbione> jdub: well yes..
[03:47] <fabbione> for x86 they have 3 times as much asm required that it's arch/x86 to suppor the entire architecture..
[03:47] <jdub> heh
[03:48] <fabbione> + they use a 2 level interpreter that slows stuff down a lot..
[03:48] <fabbione> when i was told they could just use a more generic 1 level intererpreter..
[03:48] <fabbione> twice as fast.. more portable
[04:25] <bddebian> WTF does this mean?:
[04:25] <bddebian> Rejected:
[04:25] <bddebian> Not permitted to upload to a release in CURRENT state
[04:28] <siretart> bddebian: you tried to upload to breezy, which doesn't work since some time
[04:29] <bddebian> Ack, breezy? WTF.  I didn't even see that
[04:29] <bddebian> Thanks siretart
[04:30] <siretart> bddebian: but you're right somewhre, the error message could be more verbose
[04:32] <infinity> Verbosity isn't the issue, it's that no one except launchpad hackers knows what CURRENT means, since the rest of us would think of it as RELEASED, perhaps.
[04:33] <bddebian> Well I should check user submitted changelogs more closely too :-(
[04:34] <infinity> You should check the entire patch closely, really.  If you're not doing so, the black helicopters will visit.
[04:35] <bddebian> Well I did check the patch and test it, I just always seem to overlook the distro thing.  I've done a couple unstable ones too :-(
[05:18] <siretart> jdong: hey, john
[05:18] <jdong> what's up, siretart 
[05:20] <wasabi> So anybody want to play with gapti?  http://akita.larvalstage.net/~wasabi/bzr/gapti--main    It pretty much works!
[05:20] <siretart> whats gapti?
[05:20] <wasabi> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/ThirdPartyApt
[05:22] <jdong> interesting...
[06:47] <aimaz> wasabi, ISV = independent software vendor?
[07:00] <wasabi> aimaz: yeah.
[07:02] <aimaz> so with gapti a user will click a link and it'll modify their sources.list?
[07:19] <aimaz> wasabi, would added repositories be removed when they're not required because the dependent software is removed?
[07:35] <wasabi> aimaz: no. If that should be added... which I think it should, it would be seperate from this.
[07:35] <aimaz> ok
[07:36] <wasabi> Like, an automatic sources.list cleanup would be nice.
[07:36] <aimaz> how does apt decide which repository to install a package from?
[07:36] <wasabi> The one with the latest version or highest pin
[07:37] <aimaz> maybe if there was a way to restrict a repository to only what you want
[07:38] <aimaz> that would remove some of the security implications mentioned on the wiki page and prevent unstable version of other software provided on a 3rd party repo being installed
[07:39] <aimaz> again i suppose that would fall outside gapti
[07:41] <wasabi> It wouldn't help anything.
[07:41] <wasabi> At all.
[07:41] <wasabi> Because any software you install has to be installed as root.
[07:41] <wasabi> At that point, any security concerns are useless.
[07:41] <wasabi> Who cares if it can only install packageX, if packageX can do whatever it wants?
[07:42] <aimaz> ok
[07:43] <aimaz> but it would help if say i wanted package x from a 3rd party repo but not other packages they might provide
[07:43] <wasabi> Well, that's basic pinning.
[07:43] <aimaz> ok
[07:43] <wasabi> gapti should probably pin all but the asked packages down.
[07:44] <wasabi> Just to prevent them from being installed on accedent.
[07:44] <wasabi> But it's not a security mechanism.
[07:44] <aimaz> yeah i understand that
[07:44] <wasabi> I think I'm going to change the way the public key is distributed though... cleartext sign the .apt file, including the public key.
[07:45] <wasabi> that way the key added to apt-key must be the same as the one the .apt file is signed with
[07:55] <elmo> mdke: I reset and resent jjesse's password a couple of weeks ago (or less) - has he really lost his gpg key again already?
[07:56] <mdke> elmo, last time he lost he password, but didn't realise he'd also lost the gpg key, so couldn't open your mail. I'm really sorry, as is he
[07:59] <elmo> mdke: k
[08:00] <mdke> elmo, thanks a lot
[08:09] <Zauberer> hallo zusammen
[08:11] <Zauberer> ich habe in der 6.06 2 kleine fehler gefunden, wo mu ich die posten?
[08:12] <j^> Zauberer https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+bugs/
[08:14] <bluefoxicy> does anyone have a qemu video.x for ppc?
[08:14] <bluefoxicy> qemu swears I have no video bios if I run qemu-system-ppc
[08:14] <bluefoxicy> I have openhackware installed
[08:15] <bluefoxicy> oops
[08:15] <bluefoxicy> wrong channel
[08:20] <elmo> are we shipping bcm43xx firmware yet or is it still in legal limbo?
[08:20] <mjg59> elmo: The latter
[08:23] <mjg59> If anyone has any contacts in Broadcom...
[08:28] <elmo> or if someone wants to just BUY Broadcom... :-P
[08:30] <mdke> does anyone else find that they default editor is suddenly vim? rather than good old nano...
[08:30] <mdke> s/they/their
[08:31] <elmo> mjg59: how do I know which of these myriad firmware .exe's or .sys's I want?
[08:31] <bddebian> mdke: Yes that happened to me a couple of times now
[08:32] <mdke> bddebian, very disconcerting :)
[08:32] <bddebian> aye
[08:33] <_ion> mdke: To me it sounds like a feature rather than a bug. ;-)
[08:34] <mdke> heh, it's definitely a bug. I pity the new user who is following instructions in some guide and has to figure out how to use the command line at the same time as VIM
[08:40] <mjg59> elmo: You want a .sys file, and you want to run fwcutter on it
[08:42] <elmo> mjg59: yeah, I just picked the latest one, I'm still getting invalid AP tho, oh well
[08:43] <elmo> (after setting rate to 11M and ap to any, I mean)
[08:44] <mjg59> elmo: What's in dmesg?
[08:44] <mjg59> And which kernel are you running?
[08:56] <Yagisan> G'day all, who do I need to badger about CJK support not working "out-of-the-box" on dapper, even with language-packs installed
[09:01] <sivang> bah, switched to fglrx now I have an annoying thin line that follows the mouse curose hovering the desktop
[09:02] <sivang> mjg59: is that known or expected? I have FireGL V3200 128MB 
[09:04] <mjg59> sivang: I don't touch fglrx
[09:05] <sivang> mjg59: bummer, it seemed to be working fine on x300 that I returned..
[09:05] <bddebian> Gad I hate looking at configure files :-(
[09:06] <sivang> funny, IBM also put a Broadcom wried ethernet (Gigabit) on this particular setup.
[09:07] <sivang> (but thank god the WiFi is intel)
[09:08] <sivang> mjg59: is there nothing we can do to try and have some of at least the failing code? under some strict code-sharing agreemnet? don't they want linux to be supported on their cards? :)
[09:08] <mdke_> Yagisan, I'd say the bug tracker
[09:09] <mjg59> sivang: Since this would involve me never being able to touch free code again, I'm not keen...
[09:09] <Yagisan> mdke_: it's already full of "unconfirmed" entries about the same thing (I've been browsing it since I posted here)
[09:10] <mdke_> Yagisan, ok, so if you have the same bug, you can post and confirm the bug
[09:13] <sivang> mjg59: they can't impose restrictions like that! Can they ?
[09:19] <mjg59> sivang: I'd have to prove that I never used any of their intellectual property in other code
[09:19] <mjg59> That's a difficult thing to prove
[09:19] <mdke_> mjg59, they'd have to prove you did, I would have thought
[09:20] <sivang> yes, you're usually unguilty until proven otherwise :)
[09:20] <mjg59> mdke_: Civil case, so balance of probabilities applies
[09:20] <mdke> mjg59, yes. But the burden would be on them
[09:20] <mjg59> And they'd have rather more money to throw at it
[09:20] <sivang> mjg59: in any event, the FOSS driver only gives us 2D acceleration right?
[09:20] <mjg59> sivang: No, it supports 3D on pretty much everything
[09:21] <sivang> mjg59: ah, so there is no apparent reason to use fglrx over the foss one?
[09:21] <mjg59> sivang: It'll be faster, but.
[11:38] <mdke_> fonts in dapper suddenly look rather rubbish since upgrading today :-(